Dr. Anthony, with such an impressive and diverse list of roles – Advocate, Human Rights Activist, TEDx Speaker, and more – could you share with our readers a bit about the journey that led you to wear so many hats?
My journey began in a very humble setting in Meerut, Uttar Pradesh. Growing up in a poor family, I had to work from a young age, selling newspapers and working in small shops to support my family while pursuing my education. This early exposure to hardship instilled in me a deep sense of empathy and a desire to fight for justice. My legal education and subsequent practice as an advocate opened up avenues for me to address issues I deeply care about, such as human rights and social justice. Over time, my roles expanded naturally as I found myself addressing these issues in various capacities – be it as a lawyer, activist, or speaker. Each role complements the other, enabling me to make a broader impact.
Juggling between being a lawyer, human rights activist, and so much more must be quite a feat. How do you maintain a balance between your legal profession and your various social and humanitarian roles?
It indeed requires a delicate balance, but the key lies in passion and prioritization. My legal profession and humanitarian roles are interconnected, as both strive towards the common goal of justice and human dignity. I allocate specific times for my legal practice, social work, and speaking engagements, ensuring that each receives the attention it deserves. Effective time management and a dedicated team also play crucial roles in helping me manage these diverse responsibilities without compromising on any.
Your dedication to human rights is evident not only in your professional life but also through your social work in tribal and underprivileged areas. What motivates you to spend a significant amount of your time in these communities, both nationally and internationally?
The motivation stems from my early life experiences and the realization of the stark inequalities that exist in our society. Spending time in tribal and underprivileged areas allows me to directly engage with and understand the challenges faced by these communities. It’s one thing to advocate for human rights from a distance, but it’s entirely different to be on the ground, witnessing the struggles and triumphs of the people. This direct engagement fuels my passion and commitment to making a tangible difference in their lives.
As a dynamic criminal advocate and human rights ambassador, you’ve spoken at TEDx. Can you share a moment in your career that you consider a turning point or a particularly proud achievement?
One significant turning point was when I founded the All India Council of Human Rights, Liberties & Social Justice (AICHLS). This platform has allowed me to channel my efforts more systematically and mobilize support for various human rights causes. Another proud moment was speaking at TEDx, where I could share my journey and inspire others to join the fight for justice and equality. Receiving the “International Human Rights Awards” and honorary doctorates were also affirmations of the impact of my work and further motivated me to continue my advocacy.
You’ve been recognized with several awards, including honorary doctorates and the “International Human Rights Awards.” How do such accolades fuel your commitment to the causes you champion?
These accolades serve as important validations of the work being done and the causes being championed. They bring attention to critical human rights issues and inspire others to join the movement. For me, these recognitions are not just honors but also reminders of the responsibilities that come with them. They reinforce my commitment to continue advocating for those who cannot speak for themselves and to push for systemic changes that uphold human dignity and justice.
In addition to your legal practice, you founded the International Human Rights Advisory Council. Can you tell us more about the council’s mission and some of the key initiatives it has undertaken?
The International Human Rights Advisory Council aims to promote and protect human rights globally through education, advocacy, and direct intervention. One of our key initiatives is providing free legal aid to marginalized communities, ensuring they have access to justice. We also run awareness campaigns on issues such as child rights, women’s rights, and the right to education. Additionally, we collaborate with other organizations to address human trafficking and violence against women. Our mission is to create a world where every individual can live with dignity and freedom.
How has your venture, Legal and Legal Associates, made a significant difference in people’s lives by providing free legal aid, intersected with your role as a criminal lawyer, and can you share a challenging or interesting case where your dedication and skills played a crucial role in securing justice?
Legal and Legal Associates has been instrumental in providing free legal aid to those who cannot afford it, ensuring that justice is accessible to all. One particularly challenging case involved a group of tribal women who were falsely accused of theft. My team and I worked tirelessly to gather evidence, advocate for their rights, and eventually secure their acquittal. This case highlighted the intersection of my roles as a criminal lawyer and human rights activist, demonstrating the impact of dedicated legal advocacy in protecting the vulnerable.
How does your commitment to fostering understanding through the World Inter-Faith Council for Peace & Human Rights align with your initiatives like “Giving with Compassion,” and how do you envision the intersection of human rights and interfaith dialogue inspiring individuals to contribute to social causes on an individual level for a more peaceful world?
The World Inter-Faith Council for Peace & Human Rights and “Giving with Compassion” both stem from the belief that understanding and empathy are crucial for social harmony. Interfaith dialogue promotes respect for diverse beliefs and fosters a sense of shared humanity. By encouraging individuals to look beyond their differences and unite for common causes, we can inspire them to contribute to social justice initiatives. The intersection of human rights and interfaith dialogue is powerful because it not only addresses legal and social issues but also nurtures the moral and ethical dimensions of peace and justice.
How has your journey as a change maker shaped your approach to navigating the complexities of international relations as a diplomat and advocate, all while realizing the profound impact that an individual can have on society?
My journey has taught me that change starts with individuals who are willing to challenge the status quo and advocate for justice. As a diplomat and advocate, I approach international relations with a focus on collaboration and mutual respect. Understanding cultural nuances and building alliances are key to addressing global human rights issues. Realizing the impact one individual can have inspired me to continue pushing for systemic changes and mobilizing others to join the cause. It’s about creating ripples that lead to broader societal transformations.
On a more personal note, can you share a hobby or interest that you turn to for relaxation and rejuvenation amidst your busy schedule? How does it complement your work-life balance?
I find solace in reading and meditation. Reading allows me to explore new perspectives and ideas, which is essential for my work as an advocate and speaker. Meditation helps me maintain mental clarity and emotional balance, enabling me to handle the various demands of my roles effectively. These hobbies provide me with the necessary downtime to recharge and stay focused on my mission.
Aside from your professional endeavors, we’ve heard that you are involved in teaching and training. What advice do you have for aspiring advocates and human rights activists entering the field today?
My advice to aspiring advocates and human rights activists is to stay committed to the cause, no matter how challenging it may seem. Dedication, hard work, and perseverance are crucial. Always remain empathetic and understand the struggles of those you are advocating for. Continuous learning and staying informed about legal and social issues will equip you to be effective in your efforts. Lastly, never underestimate the power of collaboration and building networks, as collective action can amplify your impact.
Can you share with us how and why you decided to pursue a career in law? Was there a specific moment or influence that guided your decision?
My pursuit of a career in law was more accidental than pre-meditated. I am the first lawyer in my family and did not have any idea about the legal profession before I decided to study law.
Even my study of the law was more out of curiosity about the subject than out of any career aspirations. By the time I was applying to go to university, I had studied science subjects like Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, and Pure Mathematics in addition to the social sciences and humanities like Economics, Commerce, Language, Literature, and Art. I did quite well in all the subjects but did not feel I wanted to pursue higher studies in any of those subjects. Thus, I decided to study law.
I eventually fell in love with international law and decided to pursue a career in that arena even though it was not something most graduates pursued at that time. International law was definitely the path less taken.
What was your experience like studying law at the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE), and how did it shape your career trajectory?
Studying law at the LSE was truly a transformative experience for me. It was indeed a privilege to be taught law by the best experts. For instance, I studied Public International Law and was supervised by Sir Christopher Greenwood, who later went on to become a Judge at the International Court of Justice in the Hague. It was also an invaluable experience to be able to attend classes with a diverse group of international students while living in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, London. The years at LSE clearly helped to broaden my horizon and exposed me to the career opportunities in the field of international law.
You’ve worked with top international law firms in the US and the UK. How did these experiences contribute to your expertise and influence your practice back in Bangladesh?
I worked in the UK for Eversheds LLP in their shipping department. That work experience was my first foray into the world of arbitration arising out of shipping law. During those early years of practice, I realized that a good lawyer not only needs to understand law but needs a well-rounded knowledge base which helps to think outside the box. Many of the issues that arise during a complex case may often involve highly technical matters where one’s understanding of subjects like physics and chemistry come in handy.
In the United States, I got the fortuitous opportunity to work for one of the world’s leading international arbitration firms, Foley Hoag LLP. I had gone to the United States as a Fulbright Scholar on the Hubert H Humphrey Fellowship to study at the Washington College of Law at American University (“WCL”). By chance, one of the Adjunct Professors who was teaching me at WCL was also a Managing Partner at Foley Hoag LLP, which had just been engaged by the Government of Bangladesh for the arbitration of the maritime boundary disputes in the Bay of Bengal between Bangladesh, Myanmar, and India. I was fortunately in the right place at the right time and got offered a position at Foley Hoag. I was particularly keen on assisting my own country Bangladesh in an international arena. While at Foley Hoag I also got to work for countries like Ecuador and Venezuela in arbitration cases arising from investment disputes. I was part of the team that advised the Philippines in their maritime boundary dispute with China in the South China Sea.
My international experiences in the law firms in the UK and USA greatly helped me in my international arbitration practice. Not only did I acquire legal skills by working with the best international lawyers in the world but I also built personal lasting friendships that provide indispensable support to me even today.
What motivated you to establish Alliance Laws in Bangladesh, and what have been some of the significant milestones for the firm since its inception?
The key motivation for establishing Alliance Laws was to have the freedom of choice about the kind of work I want to do. Now I only do cases that I find enjoyable or challenging. The law firm has grown exponentially since it was founded in 2019. We started with only two lawyers and in five years we have sixteen people working in the firm. Since our inception, we have assisted Bangladesh state owned entities in several international arbitration cases. In addition, we have also been involved in a number of complex cross-border transactions for international clients. The firm has been ranked by Chambers and Partners for its “Corporate and Finance” and “Dispute Resolution” works.
Given your extensive experience in international arbitration, what do you see as the most challenging aspects of this field, and how do you navigate them?
The most challenging aspect of the international arbitration field is to break into the system which is often referred to as the “insular arbitration bubble”. While some progress has been made with respect to gender, ethnicity, and cultural diversity, the system is still somewhat closed and controlled by a small group of people. I feel there is a need to encourage greater diversity in the pool of professionals which work in international arbitration, both as counsel and arbitrators.
For my part, whenever the opportunity arises, I try to encourage appointment of arbitrators and counsel from different regions and cultural backgrounds. I also try to ensure that tribunals and my legal teams have a good gender and multicultural balance.
Could you highlight one or two international arbitration cases you’ve worked on that you found particularly challenging or rewarding?
One of the most challenging international arbitration cases that I have worked on involved a dispute between my country, Bangladesh, and a Canadian energy company. The Canadian company had caused a massive explosion while negligently drilling a gas filled in northern Bangladesh and was about to get away without paying any compensation. When I was appointed to the case, half way through, I managed to get a team of lawyers together and succeeded in turning the outcome of the case in Bangladesh’s favour. It was difficult to take on a case which had been partially completed. However, in the end, it was rewarding to be able to change the outcome of the case through a combined team effort and a “never give up” mindset.
Lastly, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who aspire to build a successful career in international law and arbitration?
My advice to all fresh law graduates would be to read as much, and as widely, as possible. Reading cultivates the mind and makes one more empathetic. To be a good lawyer one only needs to understand the law. But to be a great lawyer, especially in international law and arbitration, one has to solve complex legal issues from a culturally sensitive manner. There is also no short cut to success. In legal practice, if one is to succeed one must be prepared to go per aspera ad astra (through hardship to the stars).
What motivated you to pursue a career in law, and could you walk us through your journey from your early days in law school to becoming a partner at Factum Law? Additionally, could you share some of the challenges you encountered during the initial stages of your career and how you overcame them?
The Question should be ‘Who?’ and not ‘What?”. I owe my professional life to my grandfather Mr. V.V. Ramanatha Iyer who was a prominent Lawyer in the Vellore District. As a school going kid, I used to accompany my grandfather to the Munisiff Court at Ranipet where he predominantly practised. It was his wish that I take after him. I joined Law School much against the wishes of my mother who like many others at that time thought that I would end up a Lier to be a successful lawyer. It took a while to convince her and she reluctantly agreed after I promised her that I will not Lie. It was my grandfather who sowed the seed in me to be a Lawyer and it was he who taught me that a Lawyer can be honest, truthful and successful. Legal education in those days were more theoretical unlike today and we hardly ever stepped into a Court during our Law School days. Of course there were quite a few exceptions to this and a few of my friends started interning quite early.
But I was a Reluctant Lawyer, when for the first time I set foot in Court almost 29 years ago. Growing up, I was very quiet, reserved and had all qualities uncharacteristic of a Litigating Lawyer. When I started my practise as a junior to my grandfather at Ranipet, I was just happily going around the corridors of the Subordinate Courts as a privileged grandson but without actually knowing the fundamentals of being a Lawyer. I felt I was in the middle of a jungle with my eyes tied shut. I did not know what was happening. I became a lawyer because of my Grandfather and also because I did not know what else to do with my life.
What inspired you to specialize in contentious and non-contentious litigation in areas such as IP, corporate, and commercial laws?
When we started our careers as lawyers, we had only two options. Either to litigate or go inhouse. Since I followed my grandfather’s footsteps, contentious and non-contentious litigation was the obvious choice. But to sustain and keep up with that choice is a completely different challenge. I would say, Intellectual Property Rights and Commercial Laws chose me rather than me choosing them. A year into practice, my illustrious grandfather advised me to relocate and start afresh with a good Senior Practitioner at the Madras High Court. He felt that the Subordinate Courts were being bifurcated and it would be difficult for me to run around from one Court to the other in the Vellore District of Tamil Nadu. I am glad I took his advice and moved to the High Court where I was given the opportunity to join the chambers of Mr. V. Veeraraghavan, one of the most prominent Lawyers in the field of Intellectual Property Law in Chennai then. It was more like an institution where we got to learn the practice of IPR and commercial Litigation. Mr. Veeraraghavan was instrumental in tutoring many other stalwarts like Mr. Prabhakara Reddy and Mr. Perumbulavil Radhakrishnan who were also my mentors and still continue to guide me in my journey. All these mentors inspired me and continue to inspire me to do well. And IPR as a subject is so unique and different from all the other areas of laws, it is but natural to be drawn to this area of specialization.
We noticed you’re a senior panel lawyer for ‘The Institute of Chartered Accountants in India.’ How did this collaboration come about, and what does your role entail?
I have been a Senior Panel lawyer for ICAI the past few years. The collaboration started after a process of application and selection through an in person interaction. As a Senior panellist, I am entrusted with representing ICAI before the Madras High Court in select matters of complex legal issues. It has been both a learning and a rewarding experience representing one of the premier Statutory Bodies of the Country.
Given your extensive experience, what advice would you give to aspiring lawyers looking to specialize in intellectual property law?
The Legal profession generally is a very noble profession which is also very satisfying and rewarding to all the genuine practitioners. I would most certainly tell all the youngsters who are looking at Law as a career, that honest, sincere hard work would make you very efficient and successful. It is imperative to believe that a lawyer is allowed to interpret a law but not facts.
Our profession has spread its wings far and wide now in terms of the avenues for a lawyer to get into. Earlier a lawyer had no other alternative but to either choose litigation or become an inhouse Counsel. But the options that are now available are much more. However, It is my firm view that every lawyer on their enrolment should litigate in any Court of their Choice and convenience for a minimum of three years before choosing any other option. Because Litigation teaches us everything that one needs in life including Man Management. Right from just seeking an adjournment, to substantial arguments it is just an art. I always believe that the lessons a young lawyer learns from litigation in the first three years, would keep him/her in good stead for the rest of his/her life in whatever they choose to do. So my first advice, if I may call it, is to gain experience as a litigator for a minimum period of three years before they decide to opt for any other avenues of the profession.
As for Intellectual Property Rights, this is the only area of law whose value stems from the public perception of such IPR (except Patents of course) and therefore every case would be different from the other. This is also a subject that just keeps evolving with every new invention and/or creative work. This to me is the unique aspect that makes it even more interesting than any other areas of law. The entry of AI now is taking to different heights and it would be interesting to see where else it goes.
Can you share any insights into the legal landscape in India, particularly in terms of intellectual property rights and brand protection strategies?
The Legal landscape is pretty promising as I believe that India of all the Major economies of the World has the best IPR protection in terms of Statutory Laws. Having said that, I also believe that we have to improve a lot in its implementation. Our Judiciary has been doing a lot to improve/ fasten the time for delivering Justice which by itself is no mean feat considering the population and the number of Judges we have.
As for strategies, I keep thinking that the brand owners take a long time to realise the potential value of their IPR’s and more often than not, the time delay in seeking Statutory protection by way of registering one’s brands or Patenting their new invention results in them losing value. Statutory protection of IPR’s should be the first on the agenda for a brand to be valuable. Registering a brand alone is not enough but maintaining it and protecting it from infringement at the right time is also equally important. In my little experience, I have come across quite a few brands losing their brand value just because they did not take action at the right time. It is also imperative for brand owners to understand that the cost and expenses for protecting and maintaining their brand is more of an investment than just an expense.
Looking back at your career journey so far, what are some key milestones or turning points that have shaped your professional growth and approach to law?
Looking back, It just amazes me that I am able to sustain in this competitive field and quite well. I would like to think that the entire Universe comes to your aid if you just keep working without thinking about the result or the consequences. I take this opportunity to thank all my Seniors who nurtured/ mentored me and who still guide me in my journey. There are quite a few turning points since the day I started my career as a lawyer. I very vividly remember my Grandfather’s loving advice to relocate to the High Court and the day I joined the Chambers of my Senior Mr. V. Veeraraghavan who helped me transition into a High Court Practitioner.
The year I spent at the Franklin Pierce Law School in the USA would be the turning point or a milestone in my career. It is not only the Legal Skills I acquired there that made it a milestone, but the people I met there and the multi-cultural life that I was introduced to, changed me as a person. I went in as an Indian and returned as a true International. I still am in touch with most of my friends and teachers and I will always cherish my year at my alma mater. This camaraderie with all these people in a foreign Country for one full year taught me to be affable and friendly to all and guides me in my approach to the Legal Profession even today. Starting our own firm ‘Factum Law’ in the year 2017 was another key turning point in my professional life and with the right people to work with, this has been a very interesting and rewarding journey so far.
The International Trademark Association of which I have been a member since 2008, has also shaped my knowledge throughout. The Annual Meeting every year and the opportunity to meet thousands of IP practitioners from around the world in one place is always satisfying. This also helps me and my colleagues in keeping ourselves updated with all the developments of Law around the world.
None of this would have been possible if we did not have the right team to depend on. I am eternally grateful to all my team members for being with me through thick and thin. Thanks to them I am certain of many more milestones in my Professional life.
Reflecting on your time at UNH Franklin Pierce School of Law, could you share your experience and highlight any notable differences you observed between the educational approach there and the legal education system in India? How do you think these differences have influenced your practice of law?
The life I spent at Pierce Law is the most memorable and life changing. I would be failing in my duty if I don’t credit Pierce Law for all of my achievements so far in my life and whatever I am destined to do more in this professional life. The Education system is more pragmatic whereas we in India still focus on theory. I am however told that it is changing here as well. There are no lectures in the US education system but only discussion. Which means you have to be prepared to be part of the discussion in every class. And you will be tested in the exams only on the discussion you had in the class. So it is imperative that you are well prepared even before attending the class and you get to participate in the discussion. This I believe is the most pragmatic way of teaching subjects and I hope Law Schools in India follow suit on this kind of pragmatic education. This has greatly influenced my thinking and my preparation for a case.
As a faculty member at EBC Learning and an alumnus of the Franklin Pierce Law Centre, do you incorporate your international experience and the teaching methodologies you encountered during your LLM into your approach to teaching? If so, how do you adapt these methods to suit the needs of your students and the legal education landscape in India?
Whenever I get the opportunity to address the students on some topic of interest, I make sure I follow the lessons learnt at Pierce Law. That of being pragmatic in my approach. So I try to make it an interactive session rather than just a lecture. This certainly aids in the students improving their thought process and their knowledge. This approach is imperative for Lawyers. I am also of the view that no Law school or college in India produces Lawyers. They can only produce a good Law Student. It is the legal practice that moulds a student into a lawyer and that takes a minimum of three years. So a pragmatic approach would equip the students better in their transition to a professional lawyer.
Could you walk us through what a typical workday looks like for you, and how do you ensure you stay updated on the latest developments in the legal field amidst your busy schedule?
Life of a lawyer is very demanding and unless we are prepared to sacrifice that ‘me time’, it will be very difficult to succeed. There are times when one feels overburdened but that comes with the territory. A typical day for me starts at 9.30 AM if not earlier. That depends on my Court work. Evenings are spent in preparing for the next day’s work and so on and so forth. Law journals and commentaries accompany me many times even in my travels. There can never be a day where a lawyer can say or feel he knows everything and the day one feels as such, would either be his last day of practice or after his retirement. Since Law is something that keeps evolving and changing with times, we as lawyers have to keep updating all the time. So I would only say ‘keep working’ to keep updated.
Do you remember the first time when you fought a case? Please tell us some anecdotes that happened in the courtroom.
Very Vividly. That was my second day at the Madras High Court. I was asked to appear for a contemnor in a Trademark Infringement case against a formidable and successful lawyer who later became a Senior Counsel. I remember struggling to even mouth ‘May I please your Lordship” and the Judge had to lean forward to hear me. I was so nervous that I didn’t even know how I reacted in a room full of stalwarts. Within a few months, I became better at it and started enjoying my appearances in the High Court. Full credit to my senior who constantly encouraged me. It is those opportunities that I got from my seniors that exposed me to successful litigation early in my life.
Could you share with us one of the most interesting and challenging cases from your career that still resonates with you, and walk us through the complexities you encountered and how you navigated them?
There are quite a few. Particularly at the beginning of my career where I was assisting a Senior Counsel in a Trademark case. It was an appeal and the Senior Counsel appearing for the Appellant swayed the Bench completely in his favour. It looked as though we wouldn’t even have a chance to argue.
When it was our chance, all we did was to pick some errors in the Appellants documents and in no time the Division Bench turned in our favour. It showed me what presence of mind and a thorough knowledge of every single piece of paper filed in Court could do. That was a lesson I carried all through my life and I still make it a point to thoroughly study the files. You never know where the spark would come from.
I have also enjoyed my experiences in appearing in trial Courts and conducting cross examinations. One can never be fully prepared to cross examine a witness and a presence of mind is most essential to be a successful trial Lawyer. Conducting trials is an art by itself and every Law Student should expose himself/herself to the art of cross examination. A good cross examination has the potential to turn litigation in your favour. I will end by saying that every day in a Lawyers Life is an experience and a learning. I most certainly love the challenges that this profession throws at me every single minute.
Reflecting on your journey from studying law to becoming a director at Vikas Sharma & Co Ltd, what specific moments or individuals inspired you to pursue a career in law? What were some of the challenges you faced and how did you overcome them?
I come from a lineage of lawyers, with my maternal great grandfather practicing in Hissar, Haryana, and both my grandfather and father in Ratangarh, Rajasthan. Growing up in Ratangarh, I was deeply influenced by the respect lawyers commanded in a small town. Visits to court with my father and uncles were frequent, and the court premises felt like a second home. Initially, my interest wasn’t in the law itself but in the sweets and pampering I received from my father’s clients and lawyer friends. However, over time as I grew older, observing my family’s dedication and the impact they had on people’s lives inspired me to pursue law seriously.
My father, the late Shri Shyam Sunder Sharma, played a crucial role in encouraging me to aim higher and move to the Supreme Court. I learned not only how to prepare a case from him, but also how being a lawyer is more than just a business but a way to help people and enjoy the process. One of the pivotal moments was my working with Group Captain Karan Singh Bhati at the Supreme Court of India, where I gained invaluable experience representing the State of Rajasthan. Group Captain Bhati was then standing counsel for Rajasthan.
The passing of my father and two uncles was a significant emotional challenge, prompting me to move to Scotland for a master’s degree in law. This move was both a personal and professional turning point, allowing me to start afresh in a new environment. The journey was filled with obstacles, but the support of mentors like Mr. Vincent Buffoni and Mr Matthew Cohen, and my persistence in adapting to new legal systems, helped me overcome these challenges.
Can you share the journey of how you transitioned from practicing various areas of law to specializing exclusively in immigration law? What motivated this shift?
The transition to specializing in immigration law was largely serendipitous. Once I qualified as a solicitor in England and Wales, I joined Vincent Buffoni & Co, a central London law firm. While working with Mr Vincent Buffoni, an Oxford graduate who was very humble and thorough, I gained experience in UK immigration law. Initially, barristers handled appeal hearings, but Mr. Buffoni trusted my abilities enough for me to represent clients. After gaining hands-on experience in immigration cases, I became interested in the field more deeply earlier
Having worked in London for a few years, I returned to Scotland where I had earlier completed my LLM degree. Since English and Scottish legal jurisdictions are separate, I had to pass conversion exams to become a Scottish solicitor. My litigation background allowed me to handle all kinds of court matters when I moved to Aberdeen and joined Mathew Cohen and Associates Ltd. There was, however, an increase in demand for immigration law services. Aberdeen, being the oil capital of Europe, had a clientele that required legal assistance for complex immigration issues. A growing number of cases and the complexity involved led me to focus almost exclusively on immigration law, which I found intellectually stimulating and professionally rewarding.
With over 20 years of experience, what key insights have you gained about the intricacies and challenges within immigration law that may not be apparent to those outside the field?
One key insight is the profound impact of immigration law on individuals’ lives. It’s not just about legal procedures but about people’s futures, their ability to stay with their families, and their livelihood. The emotional and personal stakes are incredibly high, which adds a layer of complexity and responsibility to each case.
Another challenge is the ever-evolving nature of immigration law. Policies and regulations change frequently, requiring constant learning and adaptation. Navigating these changes while advocating effectively for clients demands meticulous attention to detail and a comprehensive understanding of both the legal and human aspects of each case.
Could you please provide examples of some of the most complex immigration cases you’ve handled and how you approached resolving them? What lessons did you learn from these experiences?
Compared to London and other major cities in the UK, Aberdeen’s clientele is different. As Aberdeen is an oil capital in Europe, most of the clients are well educated professionals working in the oil industry. Therefore, they engage you only when a case is too complex for them to handle. As a result, almost all of my cases are quite complex. It was last week that I argued an appeal in which the UK government refused the appellant’s permanent residence/indefinite leave to remain application because the appellant has served a non-custodial sentence in a criminal case. The Home Office lawyer accepted before the judge that the application should not have been refused given that the appellant’s application to work in the UK had been approved despite a criminal conviction. In my argument, I relied on the principle of legitimate expectation, which was well received by the Home Office lawyer. We had another appeal where the husband of one of our clients was being removed from the UK due to criminal convictions. As a result of hugging his coworkers, he was convicted. It was my contention that the immigration rules that governed his removal contained an element of discretion. In this case, neither the UK government recognized or explained why discretion inherent in the immigration rule was exercised against the appellant. The judge allowed the appeal. Another case involved a Thai lady who was married to a British national and they had two British children. After the marriage ended, the British husband relocated to another part of the UK with the children. Due to the expiration of her visa and lack of funds, our client was able to move to the new city where her ex-husband and children had moved. Since her children lived away from her, the UK government refused her application on the ground that she was not actively involved in the upbringing of the children. Despite living away from her children due to circumstances beyond her control, I argued that she still had a genuine and enduring relationship with them. The appeal was dismissed, as were the applications to the Upper Tribunal. As a result of the Court of Session’s intervention, the matter was referred to the Upper Tribunal, where the appeal was ultimately allowed.
The lessons I learned from cases in which I didn’t receive a successful outcome initially are that ultimately success will be attained if the legal point is in our favor regardless of how many judges dislike it.
What inspired you to establish your own law firm, Vikas Sharma & Co Ltd, in Aberdeen? How does it differentiate itself in terms of approach and client experience compared to other firms in the area? Also, what challenges did you come across during the initial days of your firm?
I joined Matthew Cohen Associates as the head of the immigration law department in 2010. It was in 2018 that I joined The Chamber Practice as a partner. Since I was running both firms’ immigration law departments, I was responsible for providing the best service to my clients. As a result, setting up Vikas Sharma and Co Ltd did not make a significant difference in the way the firm assisted clients. Having my name on my firm helped my previous clients find me and gave me more freedom to run my business. Besides the procedural requirements for setting up a law firm in Scotland, which are quite onerous, I had no problems because I have been serving people here for more than 15 years and my previous clients found me through Google reviews.
Considering your background as an advocate in the Supreme Court of India, how do you perceive the differences in legal systems between India and the UK? Are there any insights from your experience in India that you apply to your practice in the UK?
The process of preparing a case for court and presenting it to the court does not seem to differ much between India and Scotland. However, there are many other distinct differences, such as the requirement that a law firm be insured before starting to practise, and the Law Society of Scotland is much more strict in its regulation of this profession than Indian bar councils. At the outset, lawyers here are required to provide engagement letters outlining the costs involved and how unhappy clients can make complaints. The Law Society of Scotland regularly inspects law firms to ensure compliance with rules of practice. Keeping the office and clients’ bank accounts up-to-date is a mandatory requirement. Generally, lawyers specialize in one area of law, such as family law, immigration law, or criminal law. Lawyers must advise clients efficiently because the cost of cases can be enormous, otherwise, they will be liable for claims and complaints. Once the pleadings are complete and the case is ready to proceed to the evidence stage, the lawyers of the parties determine if their client’s case deserves to proceed to the next stage since the client could end up paying the other party’s legal costs. As far as I’m concerned, the Scottish legal profession is much more strictly regulated than that in India.
Transitioning from practicing law in India to establishing yourself in the UK legal system must have been a significant change. Could you share your experiences and insights regarding this transition? What were some of the biggest challenges you faced, and how did you adapt your legal expertise to the new environment?
Interestingly enough, I struggled little to establish myself as a lawyer here. Vincent Buffoni, the partner of the central law firm and an Oxford graduate, had earlier shown me trust, and later Matthew Cohen, a principal of a Scottish law firm, gave me an opportunity to appear in Scottish courts. In this region, I am the only Indian lawyer and have even appeared in smaller towns such as Peterhead and Stonehaven where English is spoken in a very different accent. In terms of my work, speaking English with an Indian accent or my origin has not had any adverse effects. My experience as a lawyer in India extends even to smaller towns such as Ratangarh and Shri Dungargarh, as well as the High Courts of Rajasthan and Delhi and the Supreme Court of India. Having moved from a small town to a higher court already prepared me to handle the changes and adapt to them. I believe that when it comes to practising as a lawyer, there are certain requirements regardless of the country or court: knowledge of facts, knowledge of applicable law, understanding the stakes for the client, empathy towards the client, and the ability to represent the client before a judge.
Any new court requires adaptation, whether it is the District Court of India or the Supreme Court of India. In the same way, adapting to the courts of the UK involves a series of steps. As part of my adaptation process, I sought guidance from experienced colleagues and continued learning about the nuances of the UK legal system. A crucial step toward becoming an English and Scottish solicitor was passing the conversion exams. Additionally, I qualified as a solicitor in Ireland and worked with a firm there in 2017. I was able to successfully navigate this transition by embracing the differences and leveraging my foundational legal expertise.
With your wealth of experience in the legal profession, what advice would you offer to the new generation of aspiring solicitors and advocates who are just beginning their careers, particularly those interested in specializing in immigration law?
For aspiring solicitors and advocates, my advice is to develop a deep understanding of the law and stay updated with the latest developments. Immigration law is a dynamic field, and continuous learning is essential. Practical experience through internships and mentorship from seasoned professionals is invaluable.
Specializing in immigration law requires empathy, patience, and a genuine desire to help people. Building strong client relationships and maintaining integrity in your practice are crucial. Always approach each case with meticulous preparation and a commitment to achieving the best outcome for your clients.
We may enter this noble profession motivated by the motivation to help people, but it is the discipline that earns us credibility and reputation with clients, colleagues, and the judicial system.
Due to the ever-changing nature of immigration law in the UK, no one can claim to be an expert. It is therefore important that we stay on top of any amendments to the rules, regulations, policies, and statutes as students of law.
With the demands of your legal career, maintaining a healthy work-life balance is crucial. Could you share some of your favorite ways to relax and unwind outside of the office? How do these activities contribute to your overall well-being and productivity in your professional life?
When I am in control of my work, I feel relaxed. Consequently, I try to answer all my emails and phone calls by the end of the day. If I am unable to complete the work, I email the client when I will complete it. In the end, it comes down to managing the expectations of others.
After a difficult day at work, watching a good movie or web series helps me unwind. Since I have a sweet tooth, I run approximately 5 kilometers a day and do push-ups and squats on alternate days. Scotland is close to nature and picturesque, so I have chosen to settle there. It is relaxing to take a drive in the Scottish countryside and to have an Indian cup of tea to clear my mind. In spite of living in Scotland for almost 20 years, I remain a teetotaler and a vegetarian, so I still drown my stress in tea rather than Scotch.
Could you share with us what initially inspired you to pursue a career in law, and how your early experiences shaped your path?
I cannot say that law was the first choice for a profession, but it was the unanimous opinion of my elders that as conditions for landowners were becoming difficult in the country, an In-house lawyer was required for a land-owning family, and so I was dumped in the quadrant of law. I have a principle in my life that if I must do something I should do it well, so I immersed myself in the study of law with great diligence and unlike most of the lawyers my favourite subject always was Jurisprudence i.e. to understand the philosophy and logic that goes behind all laws. They said that the first laws of the world were the ten commandments, handed over to the Prophet Moses by God himself. Scholars in antiquities like Plato and Manu interpreted these and with the liberal assistance of the British who saw it fit to impose the Anglo-Saxon system upon us.
During the early part of my career, (if I remember correctly), I was a Junior with a senior lawyer who was then the Standing Counsel for the Department of Home Affairs in the State of Andhra Pradesh. However, within six months my Senior was elevated as a District Judge and for a better part of a decade took over his job of standing council for the department of Home Affairs. Later in the early 1990’s, I took up independent practice.
Your educational background is quite extensive, with degrees in commerce and law, as well as research in artificial intelligence. How did your academic journey influence your approach to the legal profession?
On the academic side immediately after LL.B., I joined LL.M. with “Jurisprudence”, as the main subject. However, after LL.M. there was nearly a decade when I undertook the then seemingly impossible subject of Artificial Intelligence with a research topic of “The Human Quest for Assurance in the Dispute settlement mechanism. A study of the Doctrine of Certainty in the Judicial Process”. At a time the subject of Artificial Intelligence was then in its very nascent stage and even though the term Artificial Intelligence, was coined between 1956-1960, and were called “expert system” in the late 80’s. In the early 1990’s the concept of the Heuristic based model of creating a tree of knowledge was proposed and this was the best suited for legal research. Then in Chicago a company called Mead Data Central had managed to convert thousands of American reports into computer readable form and were offering the same to lawyers over various rudimentary tools over FTP and other protocols available then. Mead Data central went down to become the Lexis Nexis of today.
My degree in commerce may have only sharpened my business acumen, not that I can speak about it much. My law degree, being a lover of history, I made it a point to know and understand the rationale and the logic behind every rule of law and its development from the simple societies of antiquity to the complex ecosystems today. My quest in the field of Artificial Intelligence was mostly focused on seeking a sense of certainty in the dispute resolution process for any prospective litigant and practitioner, for in fact this is now enveloped in uncertainty, mainly due to the length of the litigation, the abilities and perception of various parties and lastly the most uncertain area is the exercise of discretion by the court. Sadly, my profession does not use Artificial Intelligence, for its true purpose and purport, and is mostly used to drive home a point, even if the same is wrong or misconceived.
With over four decades of experience in litigation and dispute resolution, what have been some of the most challenging cases you’ve worked on, and what did you learn from them?
As mostly a lawyer in commercial and contractual disputes in private practice my career has been confined to mundane interpretation of civil and contractual laws. In one matter which was for the forbearance for the invocation of Bank Guarantee, a very early case in this country were Courts at that time held that the duty of the bankers to fulfil his obligations was sacrosanct, the doctrine of Egregious frauds was invoked, to put on hold a so-called performance of the bank in favour of the fraudulent beneficiaries. Another Grey area of contractual law is the interpretation and enforcement of written form contracts, that is printed contracts normally thrust upon unsuspecting customers mostly by bankers, insurance companies, and large organisations. The classical theory of contract is an agreement between two persons who have similar bargaining power to arrive at a Consensus Ad idem, or meeting of minds, to form a contract, but this is absent in the matter of Written Form Contract, where the conditionality in the clauses are predetermined by one party. Where one powerful party imposes and dictates terms to a significantly weaker party with no bargaining power this needs to be regulated by Law.
You have significant expertise in international arbitration and mediation. How do you navigate the complexities of framing contracts with enforceable arbitration clauses, especially across different jurisdictions?
In International Commercial Arbitrations, particularly where invocation or denial of insurance claims are concerned, the practitioner must put in a certain degree of his mediation skills into practice also. Enforceability of cross border contracts, particularly were jurisdictional courts are perceived to be biased, careful steps have to be taken first to bring the contracting party to a common forum of arbitration, conduct the arbitration obtained the award in whatever it may be and lastly the sheer vulgarities of domestic Courts and tribunals for the enforcement of the award and the loose seemed framework of the ICC is grossly inadequate to deal with belligerent parties.
Your profile mentions various specialisations, including maritime law, aviation law, and commercial law. What drew you to these particular fields, and how do you manage to stay updated with the ever-evolving legal landscape?
Many of the International commercial disputes, particularly when they deal with goods in transit require knowledge of laws of that particular mode of transportation like by sea and air sometimes in adjudication of contributory negligence and other related defences known to the law of torts. Intricate knowledge of systems of applicable law to the subject as well as territorial application are in play, ascertain aspects of maritime law are also relating to conditionalities.
As the chairman and founding trustee of The Heuristic Foundation and trustee of the Zal Maneck Foundation, how do you balance your legal career with your responsibilities in these educational and real estate management roles?
It was during the formative years of the 1990’s that the Heuristic Foundation was created for the advancement of knowledge in various disciplines and a few institutions are aided by this foundation. In the matter of the Zal Maneck Foundation this is purely a family land holding trust, controlling and managing various vast bits of a Real estate owned by my family personally. After the passing of all my elders, I now head this organisation.
You’ve conducted research on artificial intelligence in law and authored several works. Can you tell us more about your research interests and how you see the role of AI evolving in the legal field?
My thrust in the use of Artificial Intelligence is to see one day an autonomous body of knowledge, uninfluenced of facts and free from political and personal malaises, to provide a support system to the legal community on the merits and demerits of a lis to enable not only the legal practitioner but also all the stakeholders to understand where a judgement can possibly go.
Finally, with your extensive experience and knowledge, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal profession?
As my journey also, has been one of very hard dedicated work, any new entrant in this field, particularly first generation lawyers should know and understand that hard work and thorough knowledge of the particular subject, along with the historical background, and all surrounding circumstances should be well ingrained in the mind of the lawyer, as he stands up to face the bench or when he drafts a contract.
Can you share a bit about your background and what initially inspired you to pursue a career in law?
I spent my childhood in two wonderful, yet very diverse, cities – Hyderabad and Delhi. Moving cities and changing schools at a young age provided me with a rich tapestry of experiences and the chance to develop new interests. I discovered a passion for history and quizzing, which fostered an innate curiosity and interest in delving deep into complex issues. My involvement in debates on various geopolitical issues further fuelled this curiosity. These early interests, coupled with a desire to explore and understand intricate societal issues, naturally led me to the field of law, where I believed these interests would be best nurtured and developed.
What was your experience like at Nalsar University of Law, and how did your time there shape your legal career?
I am fortunate to call Nalsar as my alma mater, and my time there was incredibly formative and enriching. At Nalsar, I had the privilege of working as a research assistant for Professor Amita Dhanda at the Centre for Disability Studies. Professor Dhanda’s courses (specifically, Law and Poverty) were not only expertly taught but were also personally impactful. These courses instilled in me a strong sense of academic rigour and discipline; qualities that continue to serve me well in my legal career.
In addition to the academic exposure, my internships with top corporate law firms such as Khaitan & Co and S&R Associates were pivotal experiences. Although the duration of these internships was short, they were invaluable for learning and absorbing practical skills. These stints provided me with the opportunity to engage in a professional environment, understand the workings of high-pressure legal practice, and build essential interpersonal skills. These experiences collectively laid a robust foundation for my career, blending academic excellence with practical insights.
How did your LL.M. at The University of Chicago Law School influence your perspective on law?
The LL.M. program at the University of Chicago Law School was an experience of a lifetime. UChicago attracts the very best of faculty and students, creating an environment rich in intellectual diversity and extraordinary talent. Studying from leading practitioners in diverse areas of law (including Antitrust Law, Constitution Law and several practice-oriented courses) meant that the experience was rigorous, yet immensely intellectually satisfying.
The Law School also promotes multidisciplinary education in the truest sense, and I had the opportunity to cross-register for courses with other departments outside the Law School. I pursued my passion for History with the South Asian Languages & Civilizations Department, and took Professor Martha Nussbaum’s course on “Opera as Idea & Philosophy”. It was fascinating to learn from, and submit a paper for evaluation to a person whose work was an integral part of the courses I had studied in Nalsar.
These diverse academic pursuits, combined with the rigorous legal training at UChicago, significantly broadened my perspective and equipped me with a well-rounded approach to addressing legal challenges.
You recently completed the Tata-Blue Mint Leadership Program. How has this program impacted your role at Tata Digital?
The Blue Mint Leadership Program, which I completed a few months ago, was a transformative six-month experience. Selected for the program, I had the privilege of attending classes taught by esteemed faculty from the London Business School. As the sole lawyer in the program, I gained invaluable insights on understanding business through modules such as digital transformation, sustainability, inclusion and finance for non-finance professionals. This was broadened by business acumen and underscored the importance of cross-functional collaboration; a key takeaway being that working in diverse, multidisciplinary teams can drive greater impact within organisations.
The exposure provided by the Blue Mint Program has significantly contributed to my professional growth and leadership development. These enhanced capabilities have been a tremendous value-add at this stage of my career, enabling me to contribute more effectively to my organisation’s strategic initiatives and cross-functional projects.
Your career spans prestigious positions from Khaitan & Co to IndiGo Airlines, and now Tata Digital. Can you walk us through some of the pivotal moments that defined your career path?
I am acutely aware of the need to constantly further one’s learning (especially in our profession), and have worked towards this to pursue my career goals. Among the pivotal moments that have defined my career path, there are three that I would say were pivotal moments for me:
First, choosing to work with the competition law team at Khaitan & Co, gave me exposure to complex transactions under the mentorship of an excellent team leader. At the time, competition law was a nascent practice area in India, which made it that much more exciting to be so deeply involved in the creation of precedent. My penchant for research helped in this practice area, given the need to look for precedent from jurisdictions that have been around much longer.
Second, pursuing the rigorous LL.M program at the prestigious University of Chicago Law School (on partial scholarship) after working with a law firm for 5 years, fundamentally changed my outlook and reinforced my dedication to intellectual growth.
Third, on a personal note, the decision to move cities, start a new role, and welcome the birth of my daughter – all within a single week during January 2022 – taught me invaluable lessons in resilience and maintaining a positive outlook amidst rapid change.
These pivotal moments collectively define my career path and continue to drive my professional and personal development.
What advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal field?
As Roger Federer has said in his recent commencement address at Dartmouth – resilience, grit (over talent), and learning from failure are pivotal. Words of wisdom which, in my opinion, hold true not just for fresh law graduates, but for all of us!
Your journey into Intellectual Property law seems quite diverse and extensive. Could you share some insights into how your career began and evolved to where you are today?
Post my LL.M degree in Intellectual Property law, I was very keen on establishing an IPR practice. However, it is very important for a lawyer to be exposed to many areas of practice before narrowing down to the field of liking. Therefore, I chose to practice general litigation along with IPR. In total, I worked for 4 law firms before starting on my own. Most of my work was in the area of IPR. During my time as a junior associate, I wrote articles on different topics of Intellectual Property to explore the subject. Writing articles on topics you would like to explore is the best way to gain knowledge on the said topic. My articles I posted on LinkedIn actually brought me clients. I also got an opportunity to train MSMEs through MSME DI Chennai which brought the much needed visibility. Patience, perseverance and hard work are the three important pills for a 1st generation Lawyer.
As someone who has practiced in both independent and corporate legal settings, what differences do you find in terms of approach and strategy when handling intellectual property matters?
In both the setups, ultimately the strategy depends on the facts and circumstances of each case. In terms of approach to clients, cases, fees etcA corporate firm is extremely structured and there are systems in place to deal with multiple aspects.
Intellectual property law encompasses various aspects, including patents, trademarks, copyrights, and geographical indications. How do you stay updated with the latest developments and best practices across these diverse areas?
Being a lawyer; to serve your client best it is very important that you keep yourself updated. It is very essential that you read regular law journals and latest judgements, blogs, and international and national blogs. Regular reading is the key.
Your involvement with MSMEs and entrepreneurs suggests a passion for supporting small businesses. How do you tailor your legal advice to meet the unique needs and resources of these clients?
Like I mentioned earlier there are no hard and fast rules as to how to deal with a certain type of client. Requirements of each client, whether a person/ entity is unique and every case requires a tailor made strategy.
Could you share a memorable case from your time at Fox Mandal Little where your expertise in copyright infringement or design registration made a significant impact on your client’s business?
While in Fox Mandal, I was doing more of prosecution than litigation and I remember working on very prestigious brands and clients. Many were international. It is pertinent to mention that it was here in Fox Mandal that I was exposed to the non-contentious and prosecution side of IP practice; wherein my previous and later association with other firms were more of litigation. This experience allowed me to look at and practice IPR in a 360 degree perspective.
Reflecting on your journey thus far, what do you consider your proudest professional achievement, and what lessons have you learned along the way that you would like to impart to others in the field?
My entire journey thus far is an achievement. Being a 1st generation lawyer and without a legal background and guidance, holding my ground so far is a great achievement for me. Apart from that I have many prestigious names in my clientele. Integrity, honesty, sincerity and hard work shall take anybody a long way. However, sometimes smart work is also important.
You’ve authored the IP Digest and conducted numerous IPR training sessions. How do you believe education and awareness in intellectual property rights contribute to innovation and business success?
In my experience, in the Indian scenario I have seen quite highly educated people lacking awareness on Intellectual Property Rights. Many of them are quiet ignorant about the benefits it can offer and also the dangers of not taking certain actions at the right time. That is the very purpose of coming up with this digest so that the laymen and children can learn the importance of IPR. Exploiting one’s IPR is a practical way to success. That is what I try to reiterate in my training sessions.
Your academic journey includes pursuing a Master of Laws (LLM) in Intellectual Property Law from the University of Manchester. Could you share some insights into how the educational experience in Manchester differed from your studies in India, and how that experience has influenced your approach to practicing intellectual property law?
It is mostly self-learning through course works and dissertations. It was however different, and had a different perspective. Some exams were for 1hr 15 min which actually needs you to keep the subject in your fingertips. Overall, it was a good exercise to the brain and a test of your ability and calibre.
You’ve been involved in mediation and copyright infringement cases. How do alternative dispute resolution mechanisms contribute to resolving IP disputes effectively?
There are certain aspects of IPR that can be resolved only through courts. However, there are disputes which could be solved by using alternative dispute resolution mechanisms. Its time saving and faster compared to litigation. It is beneficial under certain circumstances.
How do you typically unwind or recharge outside of your professional responsibilities? Do you have any hobbies or activities that help you relax and maintain a healthy work-life balance?
You will actually know when you need a rest, your brain’s ability to think further stops for a minute. I do have hobbies of which reading books of literature and children’s books give me utmost pleasure. I like to watch legal dramas to keep me motivated and connected. Travel is a must and the best. Nevertheless, the best among them all is to spend quality time with family, cousins and close friends. It rejuvenates like no other.
Hello everyone. We are here today again with Dr. Swati Garg. We want to introduce her as the best female lawyer, I would say, who has opened her office doors for every student or learner. Because she is that humble that she can accept the realities of life and she can guide you through the whole process with a smile on her face. Welcome, Ma’am. And thank you for accepting our invitation to SuperLawyer.
Absolutely. See, I have a background of more than 15 years of teaching experience. And I tell all my students that look, guys, you’re most, most welcome to my office.
Anytime that you need any support in understanding a matter, filing a matter, or taking it ahead in arguing, feel free, don’t ever think that because you’re a first-generation lawyer, you don’t have an office or staff. I tell them that you have me and you will not believe that my office is the DU adda of the place.
At any point in time, all my students are here. They just drop in and ask for suggestions and request me to review their work and I love it. I mean, I feel that as a senior this is the best you can do for your juniors, right?
I have been extremely lucky, people were very kind to me and I just feel what comes around goes around and I can’t even think of any reason to not help your colleague or your junior because you’ve also reached where you are with someone’s help. You did not just parachute land on whatever position that you hold right now.
And, it is very nice, you know, when you go to the courts and people come and touch your feet and they’re like Guruji and you know, that kind of respect. Once a teacher, always a teacher. That’s why I love so many aspects of this profession. I can’t even imagine doing something else.
I love the fact that there is no retirement age in law because I feel you’re growing every day. And, you know, you’re growing on a day-to-day basis. You’re more aware, and more confident today than you were an hour back. So that is the level of learning that you get in this profession.
When did you decide to become a lawyer? What motivated you? And also through your practice years, when did you decide to become an AOR and how has it helped you become the personality that you are?
As for the question of when I decided to become a lawyer, I didn’t really make the decision myself. Others made it for me. Even back in school, for as long as I can recall, I enjoyed arguing and often took the weaker side. It wasn’t about my personal opinion; rather, it was about embracing the challenge. My teachers would often question why I involved myself in certain debates, but I believed every issue deserved a voice, including mine. As I grew older, my teachers encouraged me, saying, “Swati, you’re destined to be a lawyer with your passion for arguing. Why not turn it into a profession?” So, the path was somewhat predetermined, and I didn’t have to ponder much about it.
I’ve always been intrigued by people’s problems and genuinely enjoy listening to them. Often, just lending an ear can alleviate half their troubles. I consider it one of the most fulfilling aspects of my profession. If not a lawyer, I could have pursued a career in psychology, as I believe a lawyer often serves as a counsellor to their clients.
Regarding the AOR designation, I’ve always been drawn to pro bono work, especially in the Supreme Court. However, I realized that financial constraints could hinder access to justice. Without an in-house AOR or someone willing to take on the case pro bono, filing in the Supreme Court becomes challenging. So, I decided to pursue the AOR exam. Although I didn’t achieve top rankings, I approached it with humility and a desire to contribute.
Certain matters may not be universally appealing, and convincing others to take them on can be necessary. However, I decided to take it upon myself, realizing that instead of wasting time persuading others, it would be more efficient to become an AOR myself. This decision was not driven by compulsion but rather by the realization that it would streamline my work. I am generally adaptable, as long as the work is accomplished.
When such tasks begin to impact your efficiency, taking matters into your own hands becomes a logical step. Becoming an AOR is feasible; many have done it successfully. I believe the only barrier to achieving something is the extent of your desire for it. If you truly desire something, you can attain it. Look at Vicky Kaushal, who married Katrina Kaif—his determination is a testament to this. Ultimately, it all comes down to how much you truly desire something. Desperation often leads to success.
How did you manage to pursue a PhD alongside your busy professional life? How has this academic pursuit contributed to your professional and personal growth? Furthermore, what motivates you to advocate for causes like POSH and combat sexual harassment? How do you sustain this motivation and continue your efforts?
I really don’t know myself. It’s as if the path has been decided already. And I just keep walking. As far as the POSH thing is concerned, this was very close to my heart for a long time. I remember I used to work in the area of domestic violence.
Then it was one of my mentors who suggested that look Swati, you are doing wonderful work in the field of domestic violence. Why don’t you look into this field also? It’s an upcoming field. And at that point, I realized that yes, it is indeed a very important field because the percentage of women in the working sector is increasing by the day.
So definitely this is going to cause problems in the future. It is sheer chance that it did turn out to be a hot topic for debate today. And, because I feel strongly passionate about it, it kind of comes through. As far as teaching is concerned, it is definitely becoming more and more difficult with my schedule, but I tell myself that, look, people are doing it right. And, teaching I feel has aided a lot because it gives you that finesse, you know, you are confronting a class of what 80 to 100 students. And all of them are in Delhi University. They have succeeded in reaching that place.
They have eliminated the competition. So they are difficult minds, to say the least. And you are confronting 80 to 100 brains. You’re trying to teach something to them, which makes sense to them. They are going to be coming up with their own questions. So you’re practically training yourself as to how you need to convince a person, how you need to deal with their questions, and how do you continuously speak for two to three hours without getting tired?
Because see the throw of the voice, the projection of the voice, your body language, whether you feel comfortable speaking to a group, whether you feel comfortable addressing a crowd, all these things cannot be learned overnight. Now I have quite a few TV appearances regularly.
I would say two to three TV appearances a month, sometimes more. There was a time when I used to palpitate, thinking, “Oh my God, this is live TV. What if I end up making mistakes?” Like I said, it’s there for perpetuity; you cannot erase it. If it’s a live program, it will be there forever. And you lay yourself open to so much ridicule, and people can kind of show it to you, saying, “Look, this is what you did. This is what you said.” I used to palpitate before every appearance. And now I’m like, “See, it is what it is. We are humans, prone to making mistakes. How does it matter? I mean, if you’ve given an honest effort and ended up saying something incorrect factually, you can always go back and correct it or apologize. As long as you do not do it deliberately or negligently, I’m sure it can be forgivable because you cannot just stop doing things, fearing that you might do them incorrectly.
You have to start somewhere.” So I think academics have helped me a lot. And as far as I think one of your questions was, how has a PhD helped me? Well, it has. At the point in time when I was doing it, I told myself, “Why am I even doing this unnecessarily?” And then people would come to me and say, “Isn’t your practice going well that now you are studying again and teaching?” You know, that used to be very demoralizing at that time. But then I would say, “Well, maybe they haven’t been fortunate enough to get such opportunities, and that’s why they talk like this, right?” And now when the judges address me as Dr. Jindal, I feel so proud of myself. You know, somehow at some level, you have brought yourself out of a regular crowd. I remember once one of my colleagues pointed out to a person of very humble means who happened to be an advocate. I mean, you could make out. He was somehow just loitering around the court complex.
That person was an AOR who pointed it out to me. He said, “Look, what is the difference between him and you? There is no difference. He’s also an advocate and you are also an advocate. So how is it that you two are different?” I said, “Well, I’m a doctor who is an advocate and he’s probably only an advocate. That is the difference.” So any kind of value addition that you do to yourself. I’m not humbling all the advocates out there. So you have to realize that they’re all LLBs and it is very difficult. It’s a five-year course or a three-year postgraduate course. It’s not an easy task. You have to clear around 30 papers if you’re doing a three-year postgraduate course to become a lawyer. Even if you clear 29 out of 30, you’re still not an advocate. It’s as simple as that.
So any kind of value addition that you do to yourself, whether it is as a doctorate or it is as an AOR, anything that you do, will set you apart from that core group of advocates. And I would say that learning is a permanent procedure, that is why you call a lawyer’s practice, you know. It is not like I am a lawyer. People always say that I’m practicing as a lawyer. I’m practising as an advocate, which shows that you can never really be perfect, even if you die around Jethmalani, you will still be practicing. Nobody’s perfect. And they all say that practice till you are perfect. And in this profession, you can never be perfect. So it is sort of a moment for you to sit and self-reflect and tell yourself today.
I had a meeting in the ministry and, the joint secretary told me, “Well, you know, this is a very complicated matter, madam.” And, it was connected to some environmental matters and how the islands need to be protected from sinking and all that. So he was throwing some technical terms and he said, “Look, this is a very complicated matter and somebody would need to convince the judges.” And I was like, “Okay, we’ll try our level best to convince the judges because we would convince ourselves first.” So he said, “This is what I love about lawyers that they are willing to learn new things every day.” I said, “We just take it like somebody has thrown us in the water and it’s either drowned or you learn how to swim.” So only a lawyer would know the nitty-gritty of, for example, construction or in a medical-legal case, they would know about medical negligence. So they know what can go wrong in a human body. They would also know as to why a wife was tortured in the house. The nitty-gritty of who gets to cook in the morning, who’s cooking in the evening. They would also know some sort of injury that happened to a person during playing, or participating in a sport. So this is one field where, practically everything, you know, as many cases as you have handled, you would know as many issues.
What inspired you to write your books, particularly concerning women’s issues? Could you share the motivation behind addressing these topics and discuss your books?
You’ll find it quite unbelievable. Even I do, for that matter. It’s not like I had a plan that I will write a book someday. Things sort of keep happening to me by chance.
The only good thing I can say about myself is I don’t give up the chances I get. So I’ve been writing for a long time, even way back in school. I used to write a lot, even if only for the school magazines. I used to participate in a lot of debates. So writing was a habit.
I used to love reading and writing. It was never forced. I mean, it was never a chore for me to read and be like, “Oh, now I’ll have to read even this.” Never like that. I’m the sort of person who would also read the labels on a shampoo bottle. You know, if I’m just sitting there with conditioner in my hair, I would be like, “Let me just read the label on this bottle while I’m waiting.” That’s sort of an attitude I have.
So it’ll be difficult for me to pass those two minutes. So I would randomly read available things. So, as I was doing my PhD, I remember one of the publishing houses approached me, asking, “Would you like to write a book on this topic?” And I said, “But I have never written a book before,” you know, that was the level of naivety I had at that time.
He said, “Madam, you’ve been writing so much anyway. You’ll just have to write this book in such a way that whoever reads it can understand this topic better.”
And I told myself, “Well, why not? If they’re ready to print, then how does it matter to me?” I mean, I was amazed that you know, if there are takers for this sort of thing, then why not? So, I sort of went ahead and wrote a book on my PhD thesis at that time. At that moment, because somebody approached me, one of the publishing houses approached me. And, you know, I remember at that time I told myself, “Well, if they don’t have a problem printing it, then why should I have a problem writing it?”
That is the kind of attitude I have. And that is how it all started. That was one book I wrote in totality. And there were a couple of other books that I wrote as co-authors. And then thereafter, I’ve been writing regularly in a lot of legal magazines.
Till last year, I was writing one whole page in a national daily, a daily newspaper. So I had one page that used to come out every Wednesday, which was on law and justice. And now also I write in magazines that are weekly magazines. Then there are fortnightly magazines on social issues, primarily related to law, but once in a blue moon, I would also like to write something on a spiritual footing because I like to believe that I’m a spiritual person.
I mean, some of my friends are going to be laughing their asses off hearing the statement, but very, very deep down inside, I do believe that yes, I am. I like to think that I’m a spiritual person. I’m a very God-fearing person. I believe you will get only what you deserve and nothing less and nothing more.
Could you please share how writing has impacted your career and personal growth? Specifically, we’re interested in learning about any increases in reach, career refinement, and personal development you’ve experienced through writing. Your insights on the importance of writing, whether it’s articles, journals, or books, would be invaluable for our learners.
Let me provide another example. If you have two baskets, and in one basket, there are myriad colors – different colored balls – and you have to sort those balls, pick up some of them, and put them in another basket. How many choices are you making? The first choice is whether you want to do it or not. The second choice is which color you should select first. The third choice is looking for that colored ball, picking it up, and putting it in the other basket. Now, the next choice that confronts you is whether you want to continue this task, having finished one color, or do you want to end it there? You know what I mean? What I’m trying to tell you is that when you take that active conscious decision to separate the balls of different colors, you have to make a conscious effort to select some of them and put them together in such a way that it solves your purpose.
So in your mind, you have millions and millions of words. When you make that active conscious decision to put those words to paper, the first thing you need to decide is what you want to write on. If, let’s say, you want to write on women-related issues, for example, how working women today are being sexually harassed at their workplace and what laws are in their favor? What is it that they can do? If you decide to write on it today, let’s say that you want to write a 1500-word article. To write a 1500-word article, you would need to read thousands and thousands of words. Only then will you be able to select some of those words, and put them down on paper, in such a way that they make sense to the readers.
So when you decide to write, you unconsciously, invariably also end up reading, which is imperative for anybody in this field. For any one article that you write, you probably have to read for a week. And then there will be a time when you decide that all the reading you’ve done over the years will somehow be there in your mind subconsciously. And there will be enough words inside of you that you can take them out and put them on paper whenever you want. This is the importance of writing. I don’t know if I could have put it in a better way.
Do you apply similar planning methods to your POSH trainings? How do you structure and conduct these sessions, and what impact have they had on your practice? Additionally, how can individuals, especially lawyers, become involved in such initiatives?
I’ve encountered various trainings, and I’m always intrigued by different approaches to conducting POSH trainings. I’ve noticed that some can be overly academic, simply relaying the law without adding much value. I believe that for any training session, there should be a meaningful takeaway for both the participants and myself. It’s not just about repeating what the law already states.
Often, I conduct sessions for trainers, such as IC members or officers. Tomorrow, for instance, I’ll be training members of the Airport Authority of India. These individuals are well-versed in the law, so my aim isn’t to reiterate basic legal principles. Instead, I focus on real-life cases and practical scenarios to illustrate how to avoid similar issues in their workplaces.
I emphasize the importance of integrating legal knowledge with practical insights to make the training relevant and engaging. It’s like cooking with spices and vegetables – everyone has the ingredients, but it’s how you combine them that makes the dish enjoyable. Similarly, I aim to blend legal concepts with practical applications to provide meaningful guidance.
Rather than dictating what should be done, I prefer to present options and their potential outcomes. It’s about empowering individuals to make informed decisions and be accountable for their actions. This level of accountability is essential in creating a culture of responsibility.
How do you approach complex legal challenges like those involving the Ministry of Environment, Forest, and Climate Change, which have far-reaching impacts on both the environment and human lives?
The only answer you have is knowledge. So if you’re faced with any challenge, the only aspect of the challenge that scares you is not knowing. If you’re in a dark room at night and the light goes out, you’ll only be scared to go out if you don’t know what lies outside.
Once you have an idea, why do people feel so brave when they have a torch in their hand? Because that torch guides them. It tells them that there’s nothing outside, just the plant that was shaking. So the only thing that gives you power is knowledge. Once you are prepared with the problem, once you know the solution, once you know the way ahead, you can tread ahead with full confidence and that confidence will shine through.
The general perception is that the government is not doing anything, and the judiciary is not doing anything. It’s easy to sit in one place and say that they’re not doing anything. When you go and see the efforts the government is making, there’s no one person called the government. If we litter on the roads, is there a government guy roaming around to pick up the trash and put it back in your car from where you threw it? It has to be a social responsibility which lies on everyone’s shoulders. As far as ministry cases about the environment are concerned, getting panelled in this field opened my eyes and I realized that many steps are being taken by the government, and they’re working day and night. Whatever can be done is being done in this area to make the country more habitable, and more compliant. The only thing that remains is for the public to take their way forward in the same direction and be compliant themselves because ultimately the laws can be made, but compliance has to come from the ground level. So I think the best method to prepare for a case is to read as much as you can. Once you’re aware of the idea, what it is that you have to find out, and what are the laws about that particular matter, you will feel better about it. And you will be in a position to give your own opinion. And from there on, the sky’s the limit.
You are in a profession that demands too much seriousness and how do you relax yourself? How do you find time for your family? How do you unwind yourself?
See, I’ll tell you what, I just like to find little amounts of, I call them my stolen moments. So when you go to the court and you realize that, okay, there is a gap between two matters. I would say a chai samosa is my stolen moment.
I would chat around with my friends and just do small things. It doesn’t matter. I tell you, I would call myself a very cheap date. It’s very easy to please me. I mean, you wouldn’t have to take me to ITC or the Taj. I’m quite happy. It depends on the moment.
I think we all need to kind of appreciate the small pleasures of life and not wait for that big moment to come, and that is when we will be happy. So that is imperative, I would say.
What recommendations would you offer for individuals just starting out in their career journey? Considering your earlier advice on the importance of reading, writing, and academic pursuits, how would you advise them to plan their career trajectory?
See, there is only one thing that I would like to say to all the people who are planning to join this profession. I would just say keep going. That is the only thing that never consider a work or any kind of case to be too small or too petty for you to take up. It’s better than sitting idle, right? So don’t wait for that big case to come to you, which will enable you to create a name for yourself. And you will take only a big case because no case is small, the smallest of cases would teach you something. If nothing else then commitment. At least you will end up going to the court. So your visibility in the court matters and visibility does not mean chai samosa. Okay. You’re not just going there to have tea and eat samosa. You’re going there to appear before the court. So any kind of work that you get initially, basically, I would say beggars are not choosers.
When you start in the profession, you are a person who’s begging for work and how does it matter? Go ahead and beg. We are not supposed to solicit work, but if any work comes our way, as long as your expenses are taken care of, forget about your professional fee, because at the end of the day, are you actually contributing professionally to that matter? It’ll be years before, you know, you deserve the consultation fee that you get.
Are you even making sense suggesting people pay for it? To become the person others would pay for wisdom, you must have enough words at your disposal. Until then, doing matters for free hardly matters. I recall times when I spent from my own pocket, a practice I still maintain for matters I deem worthy of legal attention. This is why it’s called a noble profession — only nobility can afford to work without pay. Monetary rewards often come late, leaving little time to enjoy them personally; they become the legacy enjoyed by family, children, or the office. When money does arrive, there’s scarcely time to appreciate it. Needs are minimal for a lawyer: books, a Wi-Fi connection, good shoes, and clean clothes suffice. Peace and quiet become prized commodities for focused work. By then, the enjoyment of work surpasses the desire for money; holidays become a puzzle of what to do with free time. Workaholism becomes a natural byproduct of being a lawyer; creating work is instinctual when idle.
As a first-generation lawyer, what motivated you to choose law as your career path? Were there any particular mentors or figures who played a significant role in guiding and supporting you on your journey to success?
When I was in School, particularly in Std. VI, we were taught about three pillars of Democracy. Thus from there I had an idea that when someone has the Law degree, then only he can touch all the three pillars like, Executive, Judiciary and Legislative.
Secondly I had an opportunity to interact with Hon’ble Justice Rangnath Mishra, The Former Chief Justice of India and Member of Rajya-Sabha. He had visited our School namely Sri. Aurobindo School of New Thought, at Cuttack as the Chief Guest. That time he was the Member of Rajya Sabha. I had the honour of receiving the Best Student of the School award from him and hence could share a few minutes with him in the office of the Principal. Seeing his profile I felt that I would definitely study Law.
Then when I completed my +2 Science, I joined 5-years B.A. LL.B (H) Course in Madhusudan Law College (Now Madhusudan Law University) as I used to read about said Institution in News Paper. Of course I was / am also impacted with the Life of the Great Hero of Odisha Late Madhu Sudan Das, popularly known as Utkal Gaurav Madhu barrister.
To answer the second part of the question, I humbly believe that I am yet to achieve Success. It is because, I think Success is the journey and not the destination. Every day I feel that a lot to be done and people who we idolise also have the same hour of work maximum up to 24 hours a day but they are doing so much. So I always wonder about learning and I humbly think that continuous learning is the only option we have.
It is also a fact that many seniors and teachers have contributed to my professional career to have been shaped. I am always obliged for their contribution.
Considering your extensive experience and successful practice in various courts, did you ever contemplate joining a law firm, or was independent practice always your preferred path? If so, what factors influenced your decision to pursue an independent practice from the outset of your career?
Honestly I have never thought of joining a Law Firm or for that matter having my practice in such a design. There is no specific reason as such.
Maybe in the state of Odisha there is no such environment or such style of practice. We may not find many Law Firms in Odisha.
If I think a little more I would like to state that, I had the humble opportunity to have been engaged by a few Law Firms in some cases in Odisha. Then I had developed a good rapport with the firms so probably could not think of joining a firm for my practice.
To the second part of the question, My Senior Mr. Aswini Kumar Mishra was always stating that the day you join the bar, you should always feel like an independent practitioner and develop yourself like that. That gives you a sense of responsibility and you become more and more responsible. Thus I have always been inclined towards Independent Practice.
My idea of Independent Practice is not just having an Independent Office, Independent practice starts from the point when start doing a case or dealing with a client independently winning his confidence till the end of the litigation. That can also be done when you are working with a senior.
You have authored and published a law book and are working on several other compilations. What drives you to write, and how do you think your publications contribute to the legal field?
I humbly believe that the Law Students, Lawyers and each one of us are like a ship in the ocean of Legal profession. In order to reach the destination or the port, the ship requires a strong radar. The more effective the radar, it will be easier to reach at the destination.
Therefore writing articles, research papers, books, compilations are like a radar for the individual professional or student. You stand out and make a different identity for yourself in the fraternity.
Secondly it is also helpful for legal research and helping people learn the Law.
For example many judges are known and remembered for their books may not be for the judgements. Many exceptional lawyers who are stalwarts in Law are remembered for their erudite books not just for the arguments advanced in the courtRoom.
Lastly, writing and researching keeps growing and we never feel complacent.
More than eight of your juniors are now in independent practice. What do you think are the key qualities or skills that you have imparted to them that have contributed to their success?
स तु दीर्घकालनैरन्तर्यसत्कारासेवितो दृढभूमि :
sa tu dīrgha kāla nairantarya satkārā ‘‘sevito dṛḍhabhūmiḥ
This is the famous sutra from Paranjalai Yoga Sutra which defines “PRACTICE”.
It says
“ sa tu dīrgha kāla” Which means For a Longer Period
“Nairantarya” which means Without any break/interruption
“satkārā ‘‘sevito” which means With Honour and Respect.
Further Honour and respect means – Giving 100% in what you do at a given point of time.
That is Practice.
What we all try to do is to continuously be in the learning process, without any break and with honour and respect.
On the other hand I always tell my associates that People come to Lawyers and Doctors when they are in trouble.
So we need to be careful and empathetic towards their problems. For some persons, Magistrate’s Court or The District Courts are the last hope. They do not know the High Court or Supreme Court. They cannot afford to reach also.(Although we have Legal Aid)
So we need to be extra cautious in our professional work and try to be honest and deliver the service .
Lastly My associates are trained with a particular line which is “We will not say what sounds good, we will tell what is Good and more particularly what is good for the Client and his case”.
This helps us in winning the confidence of clients. They remain with us for all time to come.
One more thing we always try to do is SWOT analysis. i.e. Strength, Weakness, Opportunities and Threats. (I believe there is no Threats.It can be replaced with “Challenges”).
You conduct “Pro Bono” cases. Can you discuss the importance of pro bono work in the legal profession and share any memorable experiences from your pro bono cases?
Pro bono cases are like repaying the unseen debt that we have received from the society. When we were studying Law or any other course in school or colleges, the amount of financials/money involved and spent by the institutions are much higher than that of the fees we paid to the said institution. Therefore the extra amount which the institution has spent for us is taken from the society. Hence when we start earning from the formal education received from that educational institution it becomes our obligation to put our efforts to repay the debt that we have received from the society by doing some good work. And pro bono cases can be one of these small steps towards the repayment of unseen debt.
On the other hand receiving remuneration from the cases is like “LAXMI”. When people receive money by false promise and illegal manner that is like “AA-LAXMI”. When professional help the needy people honestly and receive blessings as may be little amount that is like “MAHA-LAXMI”
LAXMI- Comes and Goes, it’s the Most Dynamic.
AA-LAXMI- Come in abundance and definitely will go making everything Empty or will Attract negativity.
MAHA-LAXMI- may come slowly but will always remain with you and it will grow not just in terms of Money and objects but also in terms of good will as well as blessings.
Reflecting on your legal career, what have been some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced, and how have you overcome them? Additionally, could you share your future goals and aspirations for your legal practice and your contributions to the legal community?
The biggest challenge has been the resources such as the library and recognition in the bar as a good lawyer. When you argue well then automatically people assume that you must be the second generation lawyer and the son/daughter of some senior advocate or judge. Secondly, when you compare your counterparts, your friends from school and colleges who are working in other sectors and also in law forms, the remuneration that they receive is much higher than what you get in litigation. In a middle class family that too when you have nobody in the profession there is a constant pressure for joining services like judiciary, law clerk or teaching. Of course teaching was my second preference and I have been teaching till date also. But primarily I would say there has been no such big challenge but the challenges are the opportunities to learn to make yourself a better person and a better professional.
As far as overcoming the challenges are concerned the only thing which I strongly believe that helps is continuous learning, dedicated work, ignoring the negative thoughts and ideas as well as negative factors of course by recognising it properly.
It is said “Jag Mein jiye to kaise jiye… jaise JAL Mein Kamal ka phool khile”
It means like a Lotus that blooms in water, but its roots are in mud. When you take it out, it is unaffected by the water or by the mud.
Thus I strongly feel that we should not be affected by the difficult times and negativity. Rather we should be focusing on the work.
We’ve heard that your office warmly welcomes students for learning opportunities. Could you tell us more about your internship program? How can students connect with you for internships, and what specific skills or qualities do you look for when considering interns for opportunities in your office?
As I said in the above question, internship programs are like fixing your ladder and finding out the place where you can think of a career in your future. Students should be open in learning from various organisations not just the legal aspect but also the functional and organizational structure of the institutions where they are Interning.
I remember when I was in law College, at that time we noticed that there were neither internships programmes nor any organization used to allow law students to join as an intern in their organization.
I along with one of my friends had to work hard and by requesting the then chairperson of Human Rights Commission, Women Commission, and other organizations like NABARD, companies like NALCO, we introduced internships program in their work schedule.
Now we see that the students are highly benefited with such internships programs in those organizations.
In so far as working as an intern in our office is concerned the only criteria that we look for is the interest of the student. If somebody is interested and has an honest urge to learn, we would love to make him or her a part of our office.
One thing I always tell that once somebody is interning with us, we make sure that he or she becomes a part of our family and we would always stand for the student and the student should feel that he himself is a part of the team so that he would never feel that he has nobody to guide or no scope to learn or he has just worked for a month or two only for a certificate.
Managing a diverse legal practice, teaching, and engaging in spiritual activities must be demanding. How do you maintain a balance between your professional and personal life?
As I have mentioned above that everyone has 24 hours, accordingly we need to schedule and balance our work. Legal practice is the profession, teaching is the passion and spiritual activity is a way of life which does not require a specific time; rather it is an inherent, unseen as well as coexisting factor which remains always with you in whatever and whichever position you are. I believe everyone is connected to spirituality somewhere or the other. Therefore for spiritual practice no specific time is required or you need not think that it is going to take a lot of time from the day to day activities.
You’ve mentioned your interest in researching Indian Knowledge Systems. Could you share with us how you integrate insights from Indian Knowledge Systems into your legal practice, and how does this unique perspective enhance your approach to legal issues?
I have participated in a course conducted by Sri Sri University, Cuttack, designed by Prof. Dr. Richa Chopra, working in IIT Kharagpur, namely “Human Development and Psychology Vedic and Modern Perspective”. The said course is like a bouquet of knowledge and helps in introspecting and knowing the impact and impressions on human life of various factors such as art, science, music, astrology, mathematics, chemistry, ayurveda, embryology, social life, family life etc. The course helps in knowing “why I am the way I am”. From there I could gather that there is a lot to be learnt beyond the parameters of the syllabus.
Further reading of various texts and more particularly after introduction of National Education Policy, I believe that every subject which we study in the institution as a part of the syllabus is connected to the Indian knowledge system and has its source from the Indian knowledge system.
If we study that and try to connect with the same, then it might not be so helpful in academics but it will definitely enlarge the ideas thoughts as well as define the views on that particular subject.
Directly a professional may not get some tangible benefits from the study of the Indian knowledge system but I believe that in a long run it would be definitely beneficial.
As a first-generation lawyer, could you walk us through your journey? What was your motivation or inspiration for pursuing a career in law? Additionally, can you share some insights about your childhood and any experiences that shaped your path? What is something unique about you that our readers should know?
I think not only for a first-generation lawyer but for every lawyer the journey is very unique in itself. Every lawyer has their own trajectory, there is no competition. The only difference for a first-generation lawyer is the initial years where you build your reputation, where you make a conscious choice regarding your future. The profession no doubt demands a lot of sacrifice especially if you are practising independently. For me personally, discipline and hard work are the most important things. Lot of people advice me that I should build my contacts, my only answer to them is, my only contact is God, rest everyone I meet in the journey is a blessing.
My father in fact wanted me to become a lawyer, it was he who always encouraged me to start an independent practise. He always taught me that honesty and hard work never go in vain.
My childhood has played the most important role in shaping my path. I belong to a family of Army and Air Force Officers. The discipline that has been imbibed in me because of my background has stayed with me and discipline in any field takes you a long way. My mother who has been a homemaker has always stressed on the importance of being financially independent.
Unique I’m not sure but I have come to experience, if I take up a task I do not leave it mid way, I take it to it’s logical conclusion.
You have acquired your LL.M. in International Business and Commercial Law from the University of Manchester, but as we know, dispute resolution has always been your first love. How has this international LL.M. helped shape your legal perspective and approach to dispute resolution?
LL.M. from Manchester has given me immense exposure and on a lighter note, I can proudly say I have friends (who are lawyers) all around the world. That apart, the understanding of different cultures, the idea of seeing things through a wider lens definitely helps in litigation. Litigation is not just about the one case that you are doing, there can be various perspectives, you just have to see which one is best suited for your client.
Having studied and worked in the UK, what international legal trends do you think could be beneficially adopted in the Indian legal system and What changes or improvements would you like to see in legal education to better prepare future lawyers for the challenges of the profession?
Legal education should be more practical, industry oriented and should be focussed more on creating independent thinking.
How do you balance the varied demands of independent practice, being a founder of Curare Legal, and your past role as a Government Counsel? Please share some insights on challenges you faced since you started your firm.
Well I was a Govt. Counsel for about 4 years, I used to be quite overburdened with Govt. work, not leaving me with much time for private matters. Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed my work as a Govt. counsel also, I got an opportunity to work with some of the brightest officers. It gave me an opportunity to look at things from a very different perspective. I think every independent practitioner at some point should work on some Government panel. Not to mention I was amazed to see the knowledge that the Section officers or dealing hand had about the matter. It was an amazing experience.
Independent practise only demands one thing, that is consistency. Consistency is key, be it hard work, be it not giving up after you have had a rough day in Court. The right balance between being open to ideas from your clients and filter when you present your case in Courts.
The biggest challenge of course was to break even when I started the firm, and then increase revenue enough to expand the infrastructure and to be able to pay a respectable amount to Associates, paralegals, etc. Even now in fact every month is not the same, so revenue can be a struggle in some months.
You were the counsel in a landmark case under the new Land Acquisition Act decided by the Delhi High Court. Can you discuss the significance of this case and its impact on land acquisition laws?
Yes, that was a case under Section 24(2) of the New Land Act, 2013. Much water has flown since then and the recent Constitution Bench Judgment in Indore Development Authority vs. Manohar Lal & Ors. has brought about some changes in so far as the interpretation of Section 24(2) is concerned. But yes, the impact is that the acquisition under the current regime is much more difficult as it requires social impact assessment etc and even the compensation is much higher that what was provided under the 1894 Act, which was more exploitative in nature.
What were some of the most challenging and rewarding aspects of your tenure as Additional Standing Counsel for the Government of Delhi?
Challenging of course the entire work of a Govt. counsel is very challenging. I was handling quite a few matters every day, so waking up at 4 AM in the morning every day, going through the brief thoroughly because as Govt. counsel we mostly defend the interest of the public at large, secondly there’s always a sense of urgency in private clients regarding hearing of their matters, so it’s difficult to get an adjournment as a Govt. counsel.
Rewarding aspect, of course the grind that I went through has sharpened me to prepare more than 2 briefs for lengthy arguments in about an hour or so. Also I always measure success by the people that we win and my reward is the number of officers and various staff of Departments who are still in touch with me.
After serving as government counsel, what motivated you to return to private practice in 2021, and how has the transition been for you?
So honestly, as a Govt. counsel I was doing only one kind of matters. Since time was still on my side, I wanted to explore a little more and do more variety. As fate had it, I was also blessed with a daughter after I left the panel and I could effectively manage both sides i.e., taking care of my daughter and the independent matters.
Your first independent matter was a PIL for increasing compensation for rail accident victims. What challenges did you face, and what did you learn from this experience? Being your first case, what was your overall experience, and how did it shape your approach to future cases?
I have done two PILs, one for increasing compensation for rail accident victims and one for free sanitary pads and education on menstrual hygiene to Govt. School girls, both are very close to my heart. There were no challenges as such but PIL requires a lot of research, so doing all of it at a time when we did not have associates or interns to help with, one of the initial cases being a PIL would mean that we were paying even our office rent from our pocket but as it is said do good and good will come to you, I guess that is what happened with us. The 1996 Rules were amended, the compensation amount payable to rail accident victims was doubled.
So far as the overall experience is concerned, I think Delhi High Court has this very unique feature of being extremely welcoming towards younger counsels. The warmth, the seriousness with which the Judges take your arguments if you are well prepared, this really helps in boosting your morale. I remember once on the Original Side, we were young, the brief had just come a day before and we were not prepared, in fact we had just gone to seek an adjournment since certain documents were yet to come. So the Judge started recording whatever we would say in the Order sheet including that we are not prepared to argue and all I said was we are very young in the profession, Lordship may kindly remove the observations, just saying that was enough and the observations were removed. So we have the most compassionate and wonderful Judges here, it’s just about having the tact and being honest to yourself and to the Court.
Given your demanding career, how do you manage work-life balance, and what tips would you offer to other legal professionals?
Ok I get asked this question a lot and I will not lie here, I have the most wonderful husband who is also a lawyer. He encouraged me to give the Advocate on record exam after we were blessed with a daughter and I qualified it in the first attempt. I think if you are married, having a supportive life partner is a real plus.
Secondly, online hearing which is constantly being encouraged by the current CJI, is of great help to women mostly.
Tip: I can only say keep the mental state right, as long as you are mentally fine you will sail through one additional hobby, it can be sports, photography, music, movies anything at least once a week, because the profession is very demanding, you cannot limit it to 9-5. It affects you mentally even before you know, so maintain your sanity.
For young lawyers contemplating a specialization in their legal careers, what factors should they consider, and how did you decide on your focus areas? Please share some tips for them to excel in their field.
For younger lawyers, I think firstly please do not focus only on money. You have to know your work first, money will not be a problem thereafter.
Secondly, one should not just stick to one kind of practise initially, i.e., just criminal or only civil laws. There is a lot of scope and opportunities, give yourself some time. Try different areas before you finally know what you like.
My focus areas actually just happened to me by the kind of matters that came to me and I am still open to trying different areas. A lawyer never stops learning.
Lastly for the younger lawyers, just have faith in the process, go through the grind, you will get there gradually.
