Ma’am, can you please share the pivotal moments or experiences that led you to pursue a career in law, especially focusing on your journey from studying at the Army Institute of Law to earning an LL.M. at The Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy?
I always had a justice oriented personality and the choice was either between Law or Journalism for me when I was growing up. I also was very clear since very early on that I wanted to work in the field of women’s rights and gender based violence and with that I decided that Law would be a path best suited for me. At 22, I published a novel on the human trafficking of women in Nepal to India after the Nepal earthquake and after completing Law from the Army Institute of Law I went on to study at the Fletcher School where I focussed specifically on gender based violence and International Law. I wouldn’t say that there was one moment that defined my trajectory but I’d say that just the conviction that my aim in life is to use my education, privilege, knowledge and expertise to help women led me from Law School to graduate school to the positions I’ve held thereafter.
Your LL.M. focused on International Laws, and you received the Honos Civicus Award for Civic Engagement. How did these experiences shape your perspective on the intersection of law and civic engagement, and how do you see it influencing your current work?
I feel both Law and civic engagement have a symbiotic relationship for example it was Raja Ram Mohan Roy’s advocacy against ’Sati’ to legally put an end to it in the 1800’s and today we see the role of civic engagement in creation and abolishing of laws over matters important to the current times. For me, being active and participating in the community, advocating for one’s community and influencing positive change is my mantra and I live these beliefs by being involved in groups and advocacy over issues that I am most passionate about like women’s rights and immigrant rights.
As a law clerk specializing in asylum law and gender rights at the Law Office of Robert B. Jobe, can you elaborate on how your work has involved strategizing refugee and asylum claims based on gender-based persecution? What challenges and successes have you encountered in this role?
In my previous role, I worked with battered women who were fleeing persecution that they suffered in their home countries and it involved documenting their persecution, highlighting issues that were in tandem with the theory of their case. My journey with a client often started from building rapport with them which sometimes can be hard when they have suffered immense trauma in their lives, to creating a safe space where they can feel comfortable in expressing themselves and sharing their stories. One challenge with this work is that sometimes the other person is not open to seeking therapy or doesn’t live in a community that would help them work through their trauma; I learnt how to tackle this bump over the years and I feel the more you grow as a professional and person, there are different approaches you can use to understand their resistance to therapy while also giving them other suggestions to seek support from a place of empathy.
You’ve engaged with governmental organizations like USCIS and the Executive Office of Immigration Review. Could you share how these partnerships have contributed to your work in supporting vulnerable populations, and what impact your stakeholder engagement strategy has had on your cases?
My engagement with EOIR and USCIS as a Law Clerk was limited to the work I was doing but given my position as the Vice Chair of the San Francisco Immigrant Rights Commission, I have more freedom to persuasively raise and inquire about immigrant issues with USCIS that impact immigrant population of San Francisco. That said both EOIR and USCIS are Federal bodies and stakeholder engagement with them happens at the Federal level that hopefully I am a part of at some point in my life.
Serving as a Commissioner for the San Francisco Immigrant Rights Commission, you’re involved in developing strategies for human rights and labor rights for immigrants. How do you balance your advocacy work with the practical aspects of implementing policies and programs to address these issues?
San Francisco Immigrant Rights Commission works on conducting special hearings to make recommendations to the Mayor and Board of Supervisors on Immigrant rights issues which span from creation of employment for asylum seekers to housing for immigrants to taking a stance on H1B layoffs to standing in solidarity with DACA recipients whenever the country fails them. Once we have a special hearing, we review the recommendations, debate them and then forward them. This debate is often rich and detailed with every commissioner bringing practical questions to the mix and we also have the San Francisco Attorney’s office and Office of Civic Engagement and Immigrant Affairs to help us through the procedure. At the end of the day, the aim is to be an accurate representation of the issues of the immigrant community and should there be a gap between the recommendations and the practical implementation of policy, the Mayor and the Board of Supervisors may reject it.
Your role as the Chair of Women’s March San Francisco involves designing and implementing human rights programs. Can you provide insights into the specific programs you’ve developed, and how collaboration with government and grassroots organizations has played a role in advancing these initiatives?
The Women’s March San Francisco is an inactive group right now but in the past I have worked on organizing First Amendment Marches in San Francisco on reproductive rights and have collaborated with different initiatives like we have co-hosted panels on equal pay for women followed by a movie screening (on the discrepancy of pay between the men and women’s football teams in the US) and we led a workshop on how to be active beyond the marches. The beauty about a group like WMSF is that it is an all volunteer group founded by women who are epitomes of ’stand up fight back’ and has been around since 2016. WMSF has also amplified the work of other grassroots organizations for years and has provided support (whenever possible) if needed.
As a Research Assistant for Prof. Dyan Mazurana on the topic of child brides in humanitarian settings, how did your work contribute to addressing evidence gaps in child marriage during crises, and what lessons did you draw from this experience?
My work as a Research Assistant was to assist with a literature review on the topic and then identify key stakeholders who possess experience and practical knowledge in the field of child brides in humanitarian settings so that they could be interviewed and their insights could be recorded by Prof. Mazurana. As my first assignment as a graduate student, a lot of my work revolved around planning logistics for interviews and communicating with the interviewees from INGO’s and governments around the world and I definitely learnt a lot in this process.
Lastly, what advice would you give to fresh graduates aspiring to make a positive impact in the legal and humanitarian spheres based on your journey?
Figure out your purpose in life, have a larger vision and chase that, you are more than your job, your accomplishments and your possessions. AND give back to your community!
Ma’am, could you please share with our readers how your journey into law began, and what inspired you to pursue a career in the legal field?
Certainly! My journey into the field of law began with a strong desire to have a voice and advocate for what is right. Growing up in India, like many others, I experienced the challenges of a patriarchal society. Having a voice at the right time and articulating oneself intelligently became incredibly important to me.
The legal field stood out as the perfect avenue to channel my passion for justice and equality. It offered the tools and knowledge to not only understand the intricacies of the legal system but also to actively participate in shaping and influencing it. Law, to me, was a means to effect positive change, challenge stereotypes, and work towards a more just and equitable society.
The inspiration to pursue a career in law came from witnessing the power that legal professionals have to make a difference in people’s lives. Whether it’s advocating for the minorities, upholding the principles of justice, or fighting for the rights of individuals, the legal field holds immense potential to drive meaningful change.
I was particularly drawn to the idea of using the law as a tool for social justice and empowerment. My journey into law has been a journey of self-discovery, growth, and a continuous commitment to making a positive impact on the world. It’s a field that allows me to stand up for what I believe in and contribute to a fairer and more equitable society.
In summary, my journey into law was inspired by the desire to have a voice and articulate myself in the right manner, working towards a more just and equitable society where the principles of justice and equality prevail. It has been a fulfilling and purpose-driven path, and I remain passionate about the transformative potential of the legal field.
Given your diverse experiences as a Lawyer at various organizations, what were the key factors that led you to establish Lex Mores as a global law practice?
Pursuing my Masters in Law at Osgoode Hall Law School, York University, in Toronto, Canada, and gaining diverse experiences in both India and Toronto played a pivotal role in leading me to establish Lex Mores as a global law practice.
During my time abroad, I recognized the global perception of law as a noble profession, where clients seek ethical and moral legal guidance. This understanding deeply resonated with me, and it became a top priority to uphold ethical standards in my practice. Hence, I chose the name Lex Mores, which signifies “law with morality.”
My experiences abroad also exposed me to legal ecosystems designed to discourage litigation. Measures such as higher court fees and an informed consumer base facilitated swift dispute resolution. This contrasted with the mindset I encountered upon returning to India, where the focus was often on resolving legal issues rather than preventing them. Here, the importance of legal guidance and establishing clear obligations at the outset of business ventures was frequently underestimated.
My tenure working with one of Canada’s largest retail chains, combined with my Masters in International Business Law, allowed me to draw parallels between business practices in Canada and India. I came to realize the profound impact of legal awareness on business operations. This revelation motivated me to educate my clients, especially startups and MSMEs, about the crucial role of legal counsel right from the inception of their businesses.
While larger companies in India understood the need for corporate legal advice due to their higher stakes, startups and MSMEs often overlooked this essential aspect. I firmly believed that instilling in these smaller businesses the significance of legal guidance from the outset could enable them to structure their operations more effectively and reduce the risk of disputes with partners, employees, vendors, and other stakeholders.
In essence, my international experiences and legal knowledge fueled my passion to establish Lex Mores as a global law practice. My overarching goal has been to empower businesses, especially startups and MSMEs, with the legal insights they need to build well-structured enterprises and contribute to the reduction of litigation in India.
In your role as the Founder and Managing Partner of Lex Mores, how do you navigate the challenges posed by market disruptions and ever-evolving legal landscapes?
As the Founder and Managing Partner of Lex Mores, with over a decade of experience in the legal industry, I have come to appreciate the positive impact of evolution. Change is a constant in life, and I firmly believe that market disruptions and the ever-evolving legal landscape are not challenges but opportunities.
At Lex Mores, we have taken proactive measures to navigate these changes effectively. We understand that disruptions can bring us closer to our purpose, which is to make corporate law accessible and beneficial to startups and MSMEs. To achieve this goal, we entered the realm of Legal Tech through Lex Mores Tech Pvt Ltd, leveraging technology to raise awareness about the importance of corporate law among our clients.
In addition, we have developed a platform called “www.contractbazar.com,” which facilitates proactive legal work conveniently and offers transparent pricing and standardization. This platform is specifically tailored to cater to startups and MSMEs, making it easier for them to establish robust businesses in India.
With the changing dynamics of society, businesses are becoming increasingly aware of the need for the right legal advice. Technology plays a pivotal role in enabling businesses to work with lawyers without the burden of heavy infrastructure investment or exorbitant fees associated with retainers.
In essence, we view disruption as an opportunity to enhance and innovate our services. By embracing technology and adapting to the evolving legal landscape, we can better serve our clients and empower them to thrive in the dynamic Indian market.
Having worked in legal roles across different countries, how do you leverage your global experiences to provide solutions in both developed and emerging economies?
Having worked in legal roles across different countries, I have gained a deep appreciation for the need to adapt to diverse legal systems and cultures. This global experience equips me to better understand the needs, desires, and problems of my clients, allowing me to provide comprehensive solutions to clients operating in both developed and emerging economies.
I leverage my insights from various jurisdictions to offer well-rounded strategies that are not only legally sound but also culturally sensitive. By drawing on the best practices I’ve encountered, I can tailor solutions to address the specific challenges presented by each economy.
In essence, my global experiences enable me to bridge the gap between different legal landscapes and guide clients toward successful outcomes in both developed and emerging markets.
Can you share a memorable or challenging experience from your work experience, either abroad or in India, that has significantly contributed to your professional growth?
Certainly, I have a significant and memorable experience from my legal career, which occurred during my tenure in Canada while working at a law firm. I had the privilege of learning from a senior lawyer while we were providing legal counsel to a small startup entangled in a contractual dispute with a much larger corporation. The founder of the startup was incredibly passionate about his business and was resolute in protecting its interests.
In our initial meeting, the startup founder candidly expressed his concerns, objectives, and the emotional toll the dispute had taken on him. As we delved into the legal complexities of the matter, it became evident that the issue transcended mere contractual terms; it was intricately tied to his dream and vision for his company.
Rather than immediately delving into legal jargon and tactical strategies, my senior chose a different path. He decided to empathize with the founder’s predicament, and we listened attentively, not only to the words but also to the emotions underlying them. This approach allowed us to genuinely comprehend the founder’s ultimate goal.
My senior advised that instead of pursuing litigation, we should explore mediation as a remedy. This approach might require some concessions, but it would help save the company without disrupting its operations, which could have been a possible outcome if the case went against us. This solution served the bigger purpose for the client.
Through this experience, I came to realize that while the legal aspects were undeniably important, what mattered most to our client was not just winning the legal battle but preserving the essence of his startup. It was about safeguarding the dreams and aspirations of his team members who had poured their passion and dedication into the venture.
This experience significantly influenced my understanding of the importance of fulfilling our clients’ expectations as lawyers. However, the professional satisfaction I gain as a lawyer from working in the right manner with my clients and mastering the art of empathy became even clearer when I read the book “Think Like a Monk” by Jay Shetty . The book underscored the concept that true fulfilment comes from meeting the needs of others and highlighted the synergy between “Varna” (passion and skills) and “Sewa” (understanding the needs and serving others). Together, these principles contribute to one’s “Dharma” or purpose in life. This philosophy has since become an integral part of my approach to both my legal career and life as a whole.
As the legal profession increasingly integrates technology, how do you employ cutting-edge legal technology to assist clients in overcoming challenges in today’s economic system?
In today’s evolving legal landscape, technology plays a pivotal role in enhancing the services we offer to our clients. We harness cutting-edge legal technology to efficient and cost-effective solutions. Our focus extends beyond the traditional legal advisory role; we aim to empower clients to make informed business decisions right from the inception of their ventures.
At www.contractbazar.com we are developing solutions that help clients gain a clear understanding of their business needs, enabling them to make strategic decisions. By engaging with corporate lawyers early in their business journey, clients can navigate potential legal challenges with foresight and confidence.
By embracing these technologies, we ensure that our clients are well-prepared to navigate the intricacies of the modern economic system, ultimately helping them achieve their goals effectively and efficiently.
You pursued an LL.M. in International Business Law at York University – Osgoode Hall Law School and then passed NCA exams to be a lawyer in Canada. How has this additional qualification enhanced your capabilities and influenced your approach to handling global legal challenges?
Pursuing an LL.M. in International Business Law at York University – Osgoode Hall Law School and clearing the NCA exams to become a lawyer in Canada has significantly enhanced my capabilities and greatly influenced my approach to handling global legal challenges.
In-Depth Understanding of International Law: The LL.M. program provided me with a comprehensive understanding of international law, trade, and business regulations. This knowledge is invaluable when dealing with cross-border legal issues and international transactions.
Cultural Sensitivity: Studying and practicing law in a diverse and multicultural environment like Canada has heightened my cultural sensitivity. It has taught me to approach legal challenges with an awareness of cultural nuances, which is crucial when working on global matters.
Multi-Jurisdictional Expertise: The NCA exams and subsequent qualification as a lawyer in Canada equipped me with expertise in Canadian law. This dual qualification allows me to navigate legal issues involving multiple jurisdictions with ease and confidence.
Global Network: During my studies and legal practice in Canada, I had the opportunity to build a global network of legal professionals. This network is a valuable resource for gaining insights, collaborating on international cases, and accessing legal expertise from around the world.
Client-Centered Approach: My international legal education and experience have reinforced the importance of a client-centered approach. Understanding the unique needs and goals of clients from diverse backgrounds is essential in providing tailored legal solutions.
Risk Assessment: Handling international business law matters requires a keen ability to assess and mitigate risks. My additional qualifications have honed my risk assessment skills, allowing me to provide proactive legal advice to clients entering global markets.
Adaptability: Dealing with international legal challenges often involves adapting to varying legal systems, languages, and business practices. My education and experience have made me adaptable and resourceful when encountering unfamiliar legal terrain.
Global Perspective: I now approach legal challenges with a broader global perspective. I consider how local and international factors interplay in legal matters, enabling me to provide comprehensive advice that takes into account the bigger picture.
In conclusion, my additional qualifications have not only expanded my legal knowledge but have also shaped my mindset and approach to handling global legal challenges. They have equipped me with the skills, expertise, and perspective needed to navigate the complexities of international business law effectively and provide top-notch legal solutions to clients operating in the global arena.
Considering your journey from being a law student to the Founder of Lex Mores, what advice would you like to give to law students or fresh graduates aspiring to thrive in a dynamic legal environment?
My journey from being a law student to the Founder of Lex Mores has been a rewarding experience filled with valuable lessons. To law students and fresh graduates aspiring to thrive in today’s dynamic legal environment, I offer the following advice:
Embrace Lifelong Learning: The legal field is constantly evolving, and it’s essential to have a thirst for knowledge. Never stop learning, whether through formal education, professional development courses, or staying updated on legal developments.
Develop Soft Skills: While legal knowledge is crucial, soft skills such as communication, negotiation, and problem-solving are equally vital. Focus on honing these skills, as they will set you apart as a well-rounded legal professional.
Build a Strong Network: Networking is key in the legal industry. Cultivate relationships with mentors, peers, and professionals in various legal sectors. A strong network can provide guidance, opportunities, and support throughout your career.
Seek Practical Experience: Practical experience is invaluable. Look for internships, clerkships, or pro bono opportunities to gain hands-on experience and understand how legal theory translates into real-world practice.
Be Adaptable: The legal landscape is dynamic, and adaptability is essential. Embrace change, stay open to new technologies, and be willing to pivot when necessary to meet the evolving needs of clients and the legal profession.
Ethics and Integrity: Uphold the highest ethical standards in your practice. Trust and integrity are the foundation of a successful legal career.
Pursue Your Passions: Find your niche within the legal field that aligns with your passions and interests. Specialization can lead to a more fulfilling and impactful career.
Persistence Pays Off: Success in law often requires persistence and resilience. Don’t be discouraged by challenges or setbacks; they are opportunities for growth.
Balance Work and Life: Achieving work-life balance is crucial for long-term success and well-being. Make time for self-care, family, and personal interests.
Stay Visionary: Have a clear vision of where you want your legal career to go. Set goals, both short-term and long-term, and work diligently towards achieving them.
By embracing these principles, you can not only thrive in the dynamic legal environment but also make a meaningful and lasting impact in your legal career.
You are an international disputes lawyer at Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer and you also lead Freshfields’ India disputes practice. Can you share with us the journey that led you to where you are today?
I’ve had a somewhat unconventional path. Fresh out of law school in Bangalore in 2009, I took a leap of faith and moved to Delhi to litigate. As a first-generation lawyer who grew up in Mangalore and Bangalore, I wasn’t sure if I’d find my feet, but generous colleagues and mentors made that possible.
My first job was with Mr. Vikas Mehta, an accomplished Advocate on Record in the Supreme Court from whom I learned a great deal about the art and science of dispute resolution. In 2011, I joined Mr. K.K. Venugopal, who, apart from being one of India’s leading lawyers, is a fantastic mentor. His chamber has produced prominent senior advocates and judges, most recently Mr. KV Viswanathan, who was appointed to the Supreme Court last year. I was also fortunate to have the support of Gopal Sankaranarayanan, now a Senior Advocate, who helped me navigate what to me was a new and sometimes inscrutable world.
A few years into my litigation career, it became clear to me that I would set up my own counsel practice. But before doing that, I wanted to pursue an LLM to deepen my study of public and constitutional law–areas of particular focus for me during my time with Mr. Venugopal. I attended Harvard Law School in 2016, an enriching year in which, among other things, I explored core constitutional issues such as equality and free speech. Upon returning, I began working toward establishing an independent practice, while continuing to assist Mr. Venugopal, who by then was the Attorney General for India.
My career shifted quite abruptly at this point. My wife, a journalist, was on a career path that looked increasingly like it would be outside India, which led me to pursue opportunities overseas. International arbitration was a natural fit and I accepted an offer to join the Singapore disputes team at Freshfields, where I have been since November 2018. My focus is international disputes, both commercial and investor-State, across a range of sectors and regions. India is an important part of our practice, and in November 2022, I began leading Freshfields’ India disputes practice.
Your experience with Mr. KK Venugopal means that you have handled a large number of cases before the Supreme Court of India, including landmark constitutional cases. Could you elaborate on one of these cases and share the impact it had on shaping your legal career?
I was fortunate to have worked with Mr. Venugopal on many occasions. They include the case challenging the National Judicial Appointments Commission, the 2G telecom spectrum case, the Aadhar case, and the challenge to criminal defamation in India. The opportunity to work on these legally complex and often politically-charged cases was incredible and gave me a front-row-view to how the greatest Indian legal minds approached these subjects.
Working in Mr. Venugopal’s chamber was also rewarding because his juniors have always been an integral part of his team. That means your voice is always heard, your opinions are considered and your work is always credited.
You transitioned from the Office of Mr. KK Venugopal. How has your previous experience influenced your approach to handling international cases?
My experiences in India, especially with Mr. Venugopal, have been instrumental in shaping my approach to complex, high-stakes international cases. But it wasn’t just the grand battles. Tackling hundreds of commercial cases at the Supreme Court solidified my foundation in core contract and commercial issues. Those cases honed my ability to think strategically like a lawyer, identify key issues, and grasp the commercial context. While specific laws may differ, the core approach to applying legal principles remains strikingly similar. A robust foundation from my India experience allowed me to seamlessly transition to the international disputes arena.
You are on the panel of arbitrators at the Singapore International Arbitration Centre and the Thailand Arbitration Center. How do these panel memberships contribute to your professional growth?
Serving on these panels gives you the opportunity to be appointed as an arbitrator (of course, appointments are not automatic. These institutions have a robust selection process for each case). Sitting as an arbitrator shifts and broadens your perspective and, ultimately, also makes you a better advocate. You gain a new understanding of what counsel can and should do to better serve their clients and the arbitral process.
Being recognized as a Future Leader and National Leader in global and Southeast Asia arbitration publications is a significant achievement. How do you think these recognitions have impacted your career, and what advice would you give to young lawyers aspiring for similar recognition?
Thank you. Such recognition is valuable because it showcases your experience and expertise to a broad swath of the arbitration world and can be a stepping stone to more opportunities. That said, I wouldn’t advise young lawyers to chase it as an endgame. Instead, I’d advise them to focus the early stages of their careers on honing their craft. Good work does eventually get noticed.
You are the current Co-chair of Young ICCA. Tell us a little more about how it happened and your work with Young ICCA?
I’m deeply interested in contributing to the development of arbitration and to ensuring that young practitioners have the support they need to succeed. Young ICCA is a fantastic organization with programs aimed at doing just that. When a co-chair position opened up, I put my hat in the ring.
With over 10,000 members, Young ICCA is one of the largest young arbitration bodies in the world. Our core programs are mentorship (we run mentorship cycles, assigning mentors to small groups of young arbitration practitioners), scholarships (we have tie-ups with leading universities to offer fee waivers for Young ICCA scholars), events (all our events are free, and we try hard to ensure they are focused on skills training), and publications (we run a popular essay competition and the winner gets a chance to speak at the ICCA congress). The work I do with Young ICCA is truly rewarding.
You’ve co-authored several articles. How important is thought leadership in your field, and how do you stay abreast of the latest developments to contribute meaningfully to the discourse?
The law is complex and evolves every day. Thinking beyond your immediate case and grappling with the wider legal landscape is crucial to being a good disputes lawyer. Writing an academic piece allows you to dive deep and dissect tough issues from different angles. It widens your aperture and might force you to think ahead about how a particular area of law is likely to develop.
As a lawyer in private practice, the trick of course lies in carving out the time for such pursuits. I try to make time every day – okay, almost every day – to keep track of the latest developments in my areas of work and interest.
Considering your extensive journey and achievements, what advice would you offer to law graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal field, particularly those aspiring to specialize in international arbitration and dispute resolution?
When I speak to young lawyers, I always tell them to remember that their legal careers are long. In the early years, what’s vital is building the foundational skills of research and writing, and acquiring a rigorous understanding of first principles. It sounds obvious and intuitive, but all too often, young lawyers feel pressured into picking or committing to a specialized field at the cost of the basics.
For lawyers aiming to practice internationally, there are usually two ways to do it. The first is to apply for a training contract with an international law firm, train there, and qualify into an international disputes practice. The second is to work in India for a few years, do a postgraduate degree and then look for opportunities with an international law firm. The second is the harder of the two paths.
Can you share with our listeners the journey that led you to pursue a career in law, especially considering your impressive academic achievements at Amity Law School?
The journey that led me to law began in 11th standard when I chose Science with Computers only to realize that I have an interest in neither. Like many others, I was merely following the herd. Fortunately, my computer science teacher at Modern School sat me down and encouraged me to start law school training while pursuing science at school. The days I spent in law school training were most interesting and made me realize that I may have a genuine liking for legal subjects and reasoning. By the end of my final year at school, my entire section and my teachers knew that I was a science student preparing to become a lawyer.
I joined Amity Law School, Delhi (IP University) which at that time was in the top 10 law schools in India. I would prepare for my classes, ask way too many questions (sometimes even got punished for it), and worked hard for my exams. I would take time out to represent the law school in a few national and international moots and MUNs every year. After the first semester, I had topped the University, which was extremely encouraging and subsequently I received the Raja Rai Best Student of the Year award for all 5 years at law school. It was the first time I understood the meaning of the word aptitude. I was excited to move forward on this path.
How did your experience as a Law Clerk to Hon’ble Mr. Justice Sanjay Kishan Kaul and as an intern with HMJ (retired) S Muralidhar shape your perspective on the legal profession?
Working as an intern with Justice Muralidhar and as a clerk with Justice Sanjay Kishan Kaul allowed me to gain insight into the life and cycle of arbitration cases at the Delhi High Court. While Justice Muralidhar handled the original side arbitration cases amongst others, Justice Kaul was handling the arbitration appeals. I had a front row seat in the Delhi High Court that enabled me to witness some of the best orators/Senior Advocates presenting their cases before some of the brightest legal minds.
In my internship with HMJ Muralidhar, I was responsible for preparing a Compilation of summaries of judgments delivered by the Hon’ble Delhi High Court in that calendar year that contributed to the development of law. This proved to be an excellent exercise for a newly graduated law student as it provided me with further training in reading lengthy judgments in a short period of time and extracting its essence in a few short paragraphs. This, I believe, is a skill to be honed in every lawyer.
As a clerk to Justice Sanjay Kishan Kaul, my roster of responsibilities was a bit wider as I was responsible for checking the daily orders, sat in Court to hear arguments while noting important cases quoted, conducted extensive legal research in order to assist the Judge in dictating judgments and prepared the odd speech to be delivered by the Judge.
My experience at the Delhi High Court, working with two brilliant Judges allowed me to carefully observe court craft and court etiquette. It gave me a unique opportunity to understand the considerations that weigh with judges while deciding cases and also allowed me to stay updated with the latest caselaw on various legal issues, as they would be regularly quoted in the Court. It was helpful to maintain a diary of daily case proceedings and important notes during the course of my clerkship.
Your Master’s in Law at the University of Cambridge focused on International Law & EU Competition Law. How did this international exposure contribute to your understanding of the legal landscape?
To be a Masters student at one of the oldest most prestigious Universities in the world – (with arguably the most beautiful campus) – was a matter of great privilege as well as pride for me. It has contributed significantly to my growth, not just as a professional but also as a person. I was fortunate to be in a multicultural environment and to be taught by highly respected professors such as (late) Prof. James Crawford whose small groups sessions at the Lauterpacht Centre for International Law would be riveting to say the least.
It was a remarkable opportunity to understand the various facets of EU Competition law from experts such as William Allen, a former competition law partner at Linklaters, which I have consistently relied on in competition law cases in India. The masters not only contributed to my understanding of the legal landscape, but it broadened my horizons allowing me to be more confident and self-assured as a litigator in India.
At Cambridge, I was elected as the Student Council Representative at Darwin College which enabled me to voice the concerns of the students at Darwin and stand up for issues that mattered. After coming back from Cambridge, I have also been closely associated with the Oxford and Cambridge Society of India (having been elected on three successive Committees) organizing academic, social, cultural and sporting activities with Oxbridge alumni in Delhi.
How do you stay updated on the latest legal developments, especially in the dynamic field of competition law?
In order to stay updated with legal developments in competition law, I read some important competition law journals (Indian and foreign) as well as judgments from India, EU and US. I spent 2 months in Brussels in 2023 attending multiple conferences pertaining to the developments in EU competition law and competition law globally.
You transitioned from working in the Chambers of Aditya Narain to establishing your independent practice. What were the pivotal moments that led to this decision, and how has the experience been for you?
After completing my masters, I worked with Mr. Aditya Narain, Advocate (as he had a very strong background in antitrust) for 5 years and I was primarily involved in cases pertaining to competition law and consumer disputes. In fact, during the very first week back in India, I was assigned the Ericsson vs Intex/Micromax (Standard Essential Patents) case where Mr. Narain was appointed the Amicus Curiea by the Hon’ble Delhi High Court. It was the first case of such a nature dealing with the conflict between competition law and IP law.
Thereafter, I sat for the AOR exam in 2019, as I had always aspired to practice at the Supreme Court of India, even as a young law student. Once I cleared the prestigious AOR exam, I started my journey as an independent counsel and an Advocate on Record. To be an Advocate on Record, in my honest opinion, is one of the most fulfilling experiences for a lawyer as it presents you with opportunities to develop and present high stakes cases in the highest Court, pertaining to all subjects whether civil, criminal, constitutional etc. Often, the AOR dons different hats i.e. of a lawyer, clerk, typist, translator and that can be a bit exhausting. I have been fortunate to have been involved in some extremely interesting cases before the Supreme Court that have contributed to the development of law. This was always my dream.
Your current practice involves handling a variety of cases, including competition law, consumer disputes, constitutional law, insolvency & bankruptcy, and more. How do you manage to navigate such diverse legal areas effectively?
As an Advocate on Record practicing before the Supreme Court of India, one has to be open to learning diverse and complex laws in a limited amount of time. Not just learn, but with the right doses of legal research, one has to often master those laws in order to argue the case at the highest Court or even brief Senior Advocates on the matter. One needs to retain a sense of being a generalist. But as a law graduate, there cannot be a better avenue to learn and practice across such a diverse variety of legal subjects.
With the aid of some brilliant and hard-working colleagues, support from mentors as well as effective time management skills, it is possible to practice across such a wide array of legal subjects. It would be apposite to mention that with the evolution of technology and e-filing software’s/virtual courts, it has become much more convenient to practice as a litigator.
You recently represented a leading tire company in a significant challenge to a Competition Commission of India decision, resulting in one of the largest fines imposed by CCI. Can you share the key challenges you faced and lessons learned from this case?
It is indeed an honour to be a part of the tyre cartel case as I have had the opportunity to brief the brightest most well respected seniors such as Mr. Fali S Nariman and Mr. G Masilamani in the matter and work alongside some of the best competition law firms in the country. The matter is pending before the Supreme Court and therefore I would not be able to comment in detail about the case. However, I can say that the Competition Commission of India is one of India’s most robust and active regulators responsible for maintaining fairness in both the retail and online marketplace in India regulating matters pertaining to abuse of dominance and anti-competitive agreements. It is equipped with an investigative arm i.e. the Director General’s office that comprehensively and meticulously investigates matters pertaining to abuse of dominance and anticompetitive agreements.
In the tyre cartel case, unfortunately, the investigation report of the DG found evidence of existence of a cartel and the CCI passed a penalty order of around Rs. 1788 Crores against 5 tyre companies in the market for Truck and Bus bias tyres. This was one of the largest fines imposed by the CCI. The biggest challenge was to impress upon the Hon’ble National Company Law Appellate Tribunal, that this is one case where the DG and the CCI, both, have made some serious errors in calculating and comparing prices. Ordinarily, the decision of an expert body such as CCI is hard to challenge before the NCLAT, and even harder to have annulled by the Appellate Tribunal. However, in the tyre matters, we were above to demonstrate that the case set up by the DG and accepted by the CCI of price parallelism and cartel was ill-founded and factually incorrect. The DG and CCI had overlooked certain crucial details and numbers and those errors clearly demonstrated that no price parallelism existed and therefore no cartel existed in the market. It was one of the rare cases when the CCI admitted to making those errors (which seldom happens, as regulatory bodies such as the CCI are meticulous and comprehensive in their investigations). However, the NCLAT, while setting aside the CCI penalty decision, remanded the case back to the CCI for deciding the matter afresh in light of the errors made in the CCI decision. In my view, the NCLAT may have considered finally disposing of the matter instead of remanding it and therefore we have filed a limited challenge to the remand of the matter back to CCI. The CCI, of course, has challenged the entire decision of the NCLAT and both cross appeals are pending before the Hon’ble Supreme Court.
To sum up, the biggest challenge we faced in the matter was to show that the decision of the CCI was contrary to the facts as well as the settled law. We had briefed two of the leading seniors to argue on our behalf i.e. Mr. Mukul Roahatgi and Mr. Krishnan Venugopal who successfully represented our case before the NCLAT. What I learnt in the process was that in order to challenge any decision of any expert regulatory body, one must have tremendous research and preparation skills. The briefing for both the Senior Advocates was rather different and our team had to be attuned to their queries and styles prior to the briefing.
Having worked with notable judges, senior advocates, and in various legal capacities, how has mentorship played a role in shaping your career, and what advice would you give to aspiring lawyers on finding the right mentors?
Mentorship is a vital aspect of our profession, especially in litigation. I have had the good fortune of working with some of the best legal minds in the country, and I have most certainly learnt something from each one of them. There have been lessons on patience, legal ethics, hard work, humility, legal research, oration etc which have helped shape me, not just as an Advocate but also as a person.
I draw inspiration from Mr. Fali S Nariman, Sr. Adv (as do most lawyers) who I have had the opportunity to brief multiple times. Briefing Mr Nariman, as many would know, is never about fancy conference rooms and coffee machines. It is about hard facts, in-depth research into the law, reading your brief, re-reading your brief, re-re-reading your brief and culling out the crux of it. Until, every word of every sentence of every paragraph is not crystal clear, no pleading or note ought to be presented to the Court in his name. A clarity of thought, I learnt, is a crucial aspect for a lawyer, as only then can the pleading reflect such a clear thought and move a Judge to rule in one’s favour.
I learnt another very valuable lesson while briefing Mr. Nariman, something that he also writes in his book. It is that we must take the time out to think about our cases. What that means is that our level of commitment and passion should be such that whenever we have any spare time, we must think about our cases, discuss with colleagues and try and figure out whether there was a better way to present it or even develop it, whether there was an argument that we missed or an argument we took that may not work, how to respond to an argument the other side may make etc. This self-analysis forms the foundation of growth in the profession, in my view.
If an aspiring lawyer gets the luxury to choose a mentor, he/she should choose one who not merely knows the law well, but also encourages junior lawyers, gives them opportunities to argue and research, who is transparent and ethical in his/her conduct, discusses cases with his/her juniors, shares anecdotes and occasionally gives notes on how to improve.
For those who do not get the luxury of choice, just begin! Take any opportunity and start working. Regardless of how your mentor or senior is, there will be a lot to learn provided you are receptive, observant and inquisitive. Learn what you can and move on.
Considering your achievements and diverse experiences, what advice would you like to offer to fresh law graduates who are embarking on their legal careers today?
I remember briefing an extremely well respected Senior Advocate in Chennai High Court in a cartel case and I was convinced that a particular argument ought to be made by him. The Senior sensed my conviction and excitement but felt that the argument could be detrimental to our case. Only, I failed to understand his point and kept arguing to the contrary.
Young lawyers are often full of energy and confidence, ready to fight the fights and in that endeavor often become less receptive and flexible to other (often opposing) arguments. Sometimes we don’t know when to stop. Being too rigid may have some adverse effects in a Court of law, especially when a Judge strongly disagrees with your viewpoint. It is then that you must acknowledge the opposing argument and redirect yourself in order to meet that argument. Such versatility to maneuver ensures longevity as an orator and a litigator.
I would also add that in order to be a successful lawyer, one must read the latest judgments, and foreign Court decisions in an attempt to stay abreast. Maintaining a diary of relevant cases is something I have learnt from my seniors and it has saved me on a number of occasions. We must be polite and assertive in Court and never go to Court without reading the brief, even if it is to take a postponement on behalf of another lawyer because if experience has taught me that, on the day that you don’t prepare and go to Court, it is exactly on that day that the Judge will want to hear you argue. Last but not least, one of the most relevant pieces of advice I learnt from seniors and mentors, was not to lose hope in this profession, especially litigation. Litigation will test you, there will be days when you learn nothing (and more days when you will earn nothing) but the litigator must remain passionate, inquisitive and steadfast in his/her pursuit. ‘Just keep swimming’
Your academic journey includes studying law both in India and the USA. How did these diverse educational experiences shape your perspective on the legal profession, and how do you think it contributed to your success in the field?
While the principles of law are more or less the same everywhere, the manner in which the law is taught varies. It is however the overall experience that enriches you. In India, we studied law from the perspective of the statute and its applicability in different kinds of situations; in the USA we did case studies and advanced our reasoning of the applied law on such cases. What was different was the vast networking opportunities offered even at the institutional level in the USA when compared to India. Some of the friends I made then are now well established and recognized in the legal field and at senior positions in some of the top law firms and in-house.
With expertise spanning commercial litigation, arbitration, consumer protection, real estate, and more, how did you decide on such a diverse legal practice? Can you share a pivotal moment or experience that influenced your decision to specialize in these areas?
My initial interest as a student of law was on the corporate side. I was during the time fascinated (like many students) of the work that corporate lawyers did, the transactions, the numbers etc. But as destiny would have it, after enrolling at the Bar and working for one year as a corporate lawyer, one day in court was all it took. Since that first day in court, I have not looked back while I may admit that I still do general corporate work as well. With respect to specialization, while there was no specific pivotal moment as such, I never wanted to be limited to only one particular area. I have enjoyed all that the learning that the profession has had to offer me. While some may argue a specialization has its own advantages, which I do not doubt, I know that there are many people who feel limited in their ability/outreach because of the specialization whereas I on the other hand am very comfortable appearing before various judicial and quasi judicial fora in different kinds of matters. I am as comfortable appearing before a Consumer Commission in a consumer matter as I would be before the National Green Tribunal in an environment related issue or before the High Court or Supreme Court for a commercial/contractual dispute.
As the head of the “Japan Desk” at your Firm, you handle the firm’s Japanese practice. Could you elaborate on the challenges and rewards of managing international legal matters, and how does it tie into your broader practice areas?
Japan has been very close to my heart for a number of reasons. Not only is the country a close ally of India, the two nations have seen significant growth in bilateral relations through trade and commerce, culture and in the recent few years – cuisine. Anyone who has had the good fortune of being connected or has worked with Japan one way or the other would agree that the experience completely changes the person for the better. From the time I started more than 10 years ago to now, I can confidently say that it has been a rewarding experience. The Japanese build their relationships on trust and respect. If you can earn the respect of a Japanese person, you have earned yourself a lifelong friend. They are very thorough and extremely professional in their approach, which is what is also expected by them from their counsel. Unlike in India, where being late by 10 – 15 minutes for a business meeting and by almost an hour at parties is considered normal, Japanese value and respect your time. You will always see them arrive 10 minutes before the scheduled time so as to timely start the meetings. In case you require assistance, they will go out of their way to ensure that they can help you. Every trip to Japan or my interaction with a Japanese person has taught me something new. At the Firm we follow the policy of ‘Kaizen’ which means continuous improvement. We believe in the combined and collective talents of all our team members irrespective of position or rank, to propel growth of the Firm and to continuously improve ourselves in order to better cater to the needs of our clients. We advise and represent from time to time many Japanese companies including the sogo soshas in their business activities in India apart from hand holding companies that wish to come to India. Japan has a significant investment in the Indian market which is only going to grow with time and we are proud to be a part of this growth story.
You’ve had notable achievements, such as being one of the youngest Additional Advocate Generals and receiving recognitions like the 40 Under 40 Rising Star (2023) by Legal Era and 40 Under 40 (2022) recognized lawyer by BW Legal World. How do you balance leadership responsibilities with the demands of your legal practice, and how has this contributed to your professional growth?
What I am today is the blessing of my seniors who mentored me and my peers who gave me their wholehearted support. Like you cannot clap with one hand, similarly every success story cannot involve only one individual. I have been very fortunate to have been honed by some of the best mentors and seniors in the profession. Growth is never constant and every turn brings with it a new meaning. I was taught to take responsibilities head on from a young age and with such responsibilities also came leadership positions. After a certain stage in life, professional growth does not remain limited only to how well you can execute or how much business you can develop. Professional growth is how you are perceived by your peers and seniors in the profession, by your clients and friends from various walks of life, how much you have contributed back to society and how well you trained your juniors. Ultimately all these and more factors will shape and determine the growth of an individual.
As far as balancing leadership responsibilities with demands of the legal practice is concerned, it is all inter connected and you cannot fix timelines in a day for either one of them. As the great Mr. Fali Nariman, Ld. Sr. Advocate has said, for lawyers there is no start and end time. You cannot look at the watch and say it is time to go home.
Given your involvement in diverse leadership roles and professional activities, including being a former Member of the World Economic Forum’s Global Shapers Community and young leader of the Science & Technology in Society Forum (STS Forum) of Japan, how do you see the intersection of law and broader societal issues? How has this influenced your approach to your legal practice?
Law is one of the most noble professions, second only to that of medicine/doctor. To a great extent our legal system is based on our societal values and beliefs. Today our societal norms and values are seeing rapid changes and thanks to technological advances and social media, people are voicing their concerns more openly and are constantly connected. The Judiciary plays a very critical role in keeping a fine balance between past, present and future requirements of the evolving society. As officers of the court, it is our duty to the best of our ability, to represent and raise the voices of concern of our society, to be the voice of those who are unheard or have limited or no access to justice. The World Economic Forum as well as the STS Forum act as a strategic partner and platforms respectively for world leaders, policy makers, members of the business and professional community to come together, discuss and debate on a host of issues concerning our global society as a whole. The Global Shapers Community was promoted by Klaus Schwab to encourage and train the young leaders of tomorrow. We discussed, debated, raised concerns, held key discussions and representations with those in power, on a number of issues. The result was that we as individuals also got more sensitized to the ills of society and in one way or the other pledged to ourselves to try to make a difference. Similarly, the STS Forum is an excellent platform which discusses the environment, carbon footprint and the rapid growth of technology and AI all of which require regulations and safeguards. These discussions are important from a legal perspective as well as we are able to look at law concerning these areas not only from the point of view of what the law says but holistically for the larger good of society.
You’ve successfully represented the State of Rajasthan before the Supreme Court of India and the High Court of Delhi. Can you share a challenging case you’ve worked on and the strategies you employed to secure a favorable outcome for your client?
You need to do your best for the client. The outcome is the destiny of the client. There have been many challenging cases. But to briefly share, two in specific – one of the first cases that I had handled and was led by Dr. Manish Singhvi, Ld. Sr. Advocate, pertained to the exercise of powers of the Government in creation / demarcation/ reorganization of the boundaries of gram panchayats and panchayat samities under the provisions of the Rajasthan Panchayati Raj Act, 1994. A constitutional question was involved as the Hon’ble High Court, contrary to the clear bar under Article 243(O), had interfered with the powers of the State Government to perform such exercise. As there was more than one notification, however all notifications connected with each other, the Hon’ble High Court in the impugned order while taking cognizance of the bar under Article 243(O) for one notification, held the other notifications to be void, therefore making the impugned judgment mutually contradictory. We had successfully argued in the Supreme Court that the constitutional bar would equally apply to all notifications and since the elections were around the corner had also obtained a stay on the order of the Hon’ble High Court. This was a matter of critical importance given the significance as well as the timelines. I remember the entire team had worked day and night to get the SLP ready and filed before the winter vacations of the Hon’ble Supreme Court.
Another interesting matter inter alia involved the argument on the applicability of the doctrine of “proof beyond reasonable doubt” / rules of evidence which govern a criminal trial, in a disciplinary/departmental enquiry. On behalf of the State, I had argued that unlike in a criminal trial, a disciplinary enquiry was not mandated to be governed by the rigor of the said doctrine and that only “preponderance of probabilities” was sufficient to establish guilt in a departmental enquiry. It was argued by the Respondent that since he was acquitted in a criminal trial therefore he should be reinstated in the services. On behalf of the State, while arguing on the applicability of the doctrine above mentioned to departmental enquiries a distinction was also made on the basis of an acquittal which was “honorable” and one which was on the basis of “benefit of doubt”. On the basis of law and arguments on facts, a favourable order was obtained for the State.
The strategy adopted for every matter is simple. Know your facts well. Read every document line to line, word to word and understand the implication. Once the facts have been mastered, read and analyze the law and then the judgments both in favour as well as against. Once all three things have been done, you will be in a better position to frame your arguments. I have always made hand written notes for my arguments by bifurcating various arguments and supporting each argument with relevant facts and case law. As an officer of the court it is also your duty to inform the court of any law (judgment) which may be against you and also to do our best to try to distinguish the facts of that matter from yours. Additionally, I always look at the Supreme Court first for judicial precedents. Being the top most court, the decisions are binding on all courts below. Further, in case you are relying on a judgment/order of a High Court or a Tribunal/Commission for matters before such forums, it is imperative to do a check on whether the order/judgment relied upon has been challenged/appealed or stayed or upheld. You do not want to be caught in a situation where you are relying on some law which is no longer applicable. But the first principle is to know your facts. If you are not fully aware of your facts you cannot apply the law. Last but not the least, you have to wear the hat of your client and think why certain contracts/clauses (in case of a commercial matter) were drafted. What was the intention? Once you understand this, you will be able to better understand and appreciate a document in the context of the issue at hand.
In addition to your legal pursuits, you are passionate about technology, automobiles, AI, and space science. How do these interests intersect with your legal career, and do they influence your approach to handling cases or advising clients in specific industries?
Not everything of interest or passion needs to intersect with the career. Having said that, AI is fast gaining importance in the legal field and we all need to be updated with the rapid changes in the field of technology as well as adopt them. AI is a great facilitator with respect to time management, case management and research. However, in the argument of AI vs the human brain, the latter will always prevail. Through technology, it has become easier to get more information to keep one better informed and better prepared. Since time is precious, we have consciously been using various interfaces for virtual conferences to avoid the need to travel either for the client or for the Firm’s counsels, unless absolutely necessary. The Chief Justice of India is a great source of inspiration and encouragement when it comes to technology. Thanks to his persistent efforts to make our judicial system technologically sound, we are able to represent more clients in multiple forums in a timely manner, clients sitting in far away places can participate in the proceedings and see first hand how their matter is progressing instead of solely relying on the word of the counsel, the pressure on physical infrastructure will also with time ease as more and more judicial and quasi judicial fora get technologically sound. With respect to advising clients in specific industries, since I like to understand about technology, I make a special effort to study and understand how my client’s business, machines, industry etc. works. If you are a commercial practice lawyer, it is very important for you to first understand your client’s business and its functioning. Once this is understood you will find yourself in a better position to represent the facts before a court. My other passions, such as automobiles or space science have nothing to do with the profession. I love cars from classic to modern. But I feel that automobile designers in their pursuit for making something different are losing the touch of designing beautiful cars that are pleasing to the eyes as they once were. The study of space and life beyond what we know, the thought that there are other life forms somewhere far away more advanced in every sense than us, has always fascinated me.
Finally, drawing from your diverse experiences and achievements, what advice would you give to law graduates entering the field today, especially those interested in pursuing a path similar to yours?
No path is easy or difficult. You need to have patience and give yourself time to grow. Today I see a trend where law graduates tend to quickly shift from one place to another within a span of 6 months to a year if not less. There is an assumption that one has learned everything one could in this time span. This is not correct. Knowing a particular section or 10 cases for reference is not knowing the law. To evolve as a lawyer you need to be consistent and stable. The sections will always remain, what will change is how you interpret and apply them to different fact situations. That is when you will derive a new meaning. Litigation is an exciting field. Everyday is a new day to learn, to absorb, to experience. My advice to the law graduates looking to enter into this practice would therefore be that they do not restrict themselves to only one court. They should gain experience in all courts. If someday you do not have a matter assigned, take out time and just sit in a courtroom and absorb the proceedings. Understand how the Courts are seeking clarity/asking questions, how the counsels are arguing, how the law is being applied. Specially sit in your respective High Court’s and if possible the Supreme Court and hear the arguments of some celebrated Senior Counsel’s. There is a great deal of learning. The more hands-on experience you will have the better you will learn. In addition to this, never stop reading. We have very good reference books on all areas of practice and subjects which explain concepts clearly. Take out at least one hour every day to spend on reading reference books as well as new cases to enhance your knowledge. Further and most importantly, practice your oratory and legal writing. No amount of knowledge will be beneficial if you cannot fluently put it on paper or argue in court. Last but not the least, take criticism or review in a positive way. The fact that your mentor/senior/colleague has taken out time to point out mistakes is a blessing in disguise meant for you to reflect on and improve.
As a conversation starter, please tell us about how you ended up pursuing law as a career?
I used to identify myself as an accidental lawyer, but with over a decade behind me since law school I am confident that I was meant to do law. It was through some family friends’ recommendations and guidance from a career counsellor that I ended up prepping for law school entrance exams in the pre-CLAT era and thankfully I landed up at GNLU, Gandhinagar.
Although my earlier aspirations were to pursue accountancy (largely attributable to my having been brought up in Gujarat where pursuing CA has been a perpetual trend) I realised shortly after graduating from GNLU in 2011 that my natural acumen is much better suited for practicing law.
Could you please tell us about the challenges that you faced when you switched to practicing law in India?
So after spending a few years abroad and working with international organizations I realized that I did not want to limit myself to a particular area or a particular court. I figured my ability to crack a regulatory or legal framework in a short span of time worked equally well a variety of practice areas.
With this the natural step was to transition to practicing law. The biggest challenges were making decisions, being to either practice in Delhi or elsewhere, sticking to chamber practice or moving towards consulting.
In the present day I identify myself as a legal strategist and consultant focusing on corporate and commercial disputes. Dabbling in various avenues of practice and gaining a perspective on where I am best suited was the prime challenge and I hope it continues to remain one as a constant growth curve leads one to redefining their position of contribution.
What according to you are the key drawbacks in the current legal and disputes landscape in India?
I think this question is better suited for a thesis. But just at the top of my head, while since Covid we have seen a much welcome transition towards adoption of technology by the Indian judiciary, the impetus must continue to bring further transparency and swiftness in the disputes landscape.
Another challenge that I realise is the disparity in the pay structure for young lawyers, and I partly hold law schools responsible for this. See, a medical school is very closely attached to a hospital where a medical student deals with the rigours of practicalities in an operation theatre or a ward and emergency. However, law schools due to multifarious reasons have the ability to offer mostly theoretical knowledge. A young lawyer even from the best of law schools may not be able to appreciate the nuances of drafting even a basic affidavit from day one; whereas it is rather standard to expect a MBBS to perform stitches on a patient even prior to their graduation.
While internships may offer some bit of exposure, not every internship will turn out to be as equally rewarding in terms of learning. Combining research acumen with a pragmatic approach will help increase the preparedness for young lawyers.
What difference do you see between the legal education system abroad and the one in India?
Speaking from my experience of having pursued a LLM in UK, one of the key differences is the method of pedagogy. Law schools in UK are a lot better equipped for seminar-based interactions whereas courses at Indian law schools are still largely structured around lectures.
Additionally, the method of taking exams is also significantly different as UK law schools assess their students through take home exams which hone their research and legal writing abilities significantly.
What keeps you motivated at work?
Thankfully many things.
I have the constant urge to know answers to my clients’ questions before they ask them and presenting the way forward. I believe that’s the very foundation of expectations of a an in-house counsel from an external counsel and more so when concerning disputes and litigations.
Along with this I have the support of a great team (both mentors and colleagues) at King Stubb & Kasiva which only multiplies my motivation.
Given a hectic schedule, please tell us about how you spend your time off.
Over the years my definition of time off has changed significantly. As a disputes counsel one really needs to shed the ideas of weekends, etc., as that’s when a lot of work actually takes place in terms of briefing conferences, arbitration proceedings and mediations.
While a lot of people highlight the adversities of glorifying long working hours and I do partly agree, balancing the time with a huge chunk falling in favour of spending time doing law is the requirement for any counsel who seeks to add value.
During the time I am not doing law, I tend to interact and catching up with family and friends, planning for travels and travelling, reading and some bit of occasional kite-flying.
Lastly, please tell our audience about the lesson you have learnt the hard way.
Being kind and humane to your colleagues is not only a great attribute but also a much-needed trait in a profession which sees severe stresses, short deadlines, and complexly contentious issues.
A lot of people may say that one should be patient but not many can explain how to achieve it. Patience is actually a great quality for a disputes counsel, and this requires putting in a lot of work to have complete clarity.
Being a science student, and then choosing law, what was the idea behind?
Great Question. Though I am used to this question and answering this question every other day. Actually, this science and law cocktail was not planned. In fact, Law was something I never imagined I would be pursuing. I did my graduation and post-graduation in technological streams and happily started working as an Engineer.
Barring a few things, I was satiate with my carrier. As destiny had other plans for me, one fine day, I felt something is not right about my job and the kind of work I was doing back then. I started looking for other options and got to know about Intellectual Property Rights and prior art searching. The domain looked different and exciting, so I decided to switch my path and get into Intellectual Property. So, this is how I get into Legal domain, and in this journey, I qualified the Patent Agent examination. Later, I felt like having formal qualification in law, which led me to pursue LL.B.
Please enlighten our audience about the initial struggles in your career and how you managed to overcome them?
I’d rather start with initial anxieties. As I started my career as an RF engineer, and I was letting go my 3-4 years of job experience for something new called Intellectual Property, which, at that point in time, people thought to be some sort of real-estate business related endeavor, I had lot of disquiet in my mind, and I was in dilemma about the decision I was going to make. Plus, the baggage of what people would say if I failed. But my heart had already accepted it, so it pushed to me to make a bold decision and take that plunge, which I did, and I am elated to say that I made the right decision at that point.
Of course, there were struggles, but I was very passionate about what I was doing and loved it so much that struggles never felt struggles, they felt like challenges, for which I was determined to go any lengths.
What are the most important considerations to keep in mind when dealing with IPR and registering patent issues?
Over the years, I have realized that inventors are mostly concerned about the outcome, i.e., the grant of a patent, not about the events that come along the way of patent grant. I have experienced that most inventors, if not all, are interested in getting their patent granted, and they are either ignorant about the very-very important milestones that starts with patent application filing and end with patent grant/refusal.
Let me give you a little more perspective, I believe prior art searching to be the most important thing in the patent proceedings, but inventors hardly show any enthusiasm to get it done. And those who consider prior art searching, they fail to understand why a prior art search is done at all, how it can contribute in shaping his/her patent application. Similarly, patent application or claims drafting is merely considered to be the patent agent job. Of course, it is as you are paying him/her, but I’d like advise that please do not recklessly depend on your Patent Agent and be actively involved in the events/proceedings—-Afterall inventions are inventors’ child, not Agents’. My intention is to make the inventors more inquisitive and interactive so that they know what is actually being done by their patent attorney, how the attorney is giving shape to claims, application, arguments, etc.
IPR and other corporate sectors are evolving like never before, would you like to throw some light on the same? And according to you Lalit, what exciting opportunities it can create for our young lawyers?
With government initiatives such as “Make in India”, “Self-reliant India”, push for innovations, and programmes like “Start-up India”, protection of innovations is seen as a necessity to compete in the market. With this patenting activities has increased many folds, and patent filing in India is rising at an unprecedented rate.
As per the Economic Survey 2021-22, the number of patents filed in India has gone up from 39,400 in 2010-11 to 58,502 in 2020-21 and the patents granted in India have gone up from 7,509 to 28,391 during the same time. With so many numbers of patent filings, Patent Prosecution is rising, so is the Patent Litigation. Therefore, one can easily infer the prospects for young professionals.
Lalit, as per your experience in the legal field, how do you see the legal industry coming up with new concepts and creating exciting opportunities?
With the constant push for digitization, arrival of faster telecommunication technologies like 4G/5G, invent of communication platforms such as Zoom, Teams, etc., alike every other domain, Legal industry is also witnessing rapid transformation. Everyone is now aware how virtual courts have started, how virtual hearings has transformed the way hearings were taken. If I specifically talk about the Indian Patent paradigm, Indian Patent Office (IPO) too has segued from offline system to online system. With conversion of physical hearings into into virtual-call-based hearings, paperless patent application filings, mandatory online filings for Patent Agents, and many other such initiatives, IPO has put in place a lot of new concepts/systems. So, newer opportunities are coming along, we just need the right approach and right temperament to grab said opportunities.
What can be some of the toughest considerations while someone from a non-legal background has to see before opting law as a career?
For someone from a non-legal background, the toughest consideration would be the time window for success. To make a mark in this industry, one must possess the tenacity to climb every rung of the ladder that leads to the success. As they say, there is no shortcut to be successful—legal domain is no different or alien to this saying.
Lalit, what is a typical day like for you?
Well, a typical day is typically typical for me. I get up around 6 AM. Do my daily chores by 8 AM and leave for office by 8.30 AM. Commute to office, reach there by 9.30 AM, and get lost in the pool of matters waiting my arrival. Leave office at 6.30 PM, reach home around 8.30 PM where my son and my daughter (twins) remain armored to welcome me with the showers of anecdotes, complaints, happenings, and everything in between from their typical day.
Could you highlight some of your success habits that enable you to meet your goal?
Never say no attitude’ and ‘to remain grounded’ at all the times are some of the attributes which I think play pivotal roles in anybody’s success.
Lastly, what advice would you give to someone starting out?
Keep your mind, eyes, and ears open for anyone and everyone—you never know who might give you the piece of information that can change your life forever. One more thing, everything progresses at its own pace, so never feel frustrated/agitated if something is not happening at your whims/desires—time and destiny will certainly make it happen for you if you are honest and keen about it.
What motivated you to choose law as a career? And how has been the journey so far for you?
While growing up, I remember my mother telling me that she always wanted to be an advocate. However, since she came from a humble background, she could not pursue it.
As they say, “When it comes to life, we spin our own yarn, and where we end up is really, in fact, where we always intended to be”, somewhere, I believe that destiny had a major role to play while I chose to study law and pursue it as my career since I was very inclined to pursue fashion designing.
God has been very kind to me, I have met some wonderful mentors during my journey who have constantly guided me through. It has been an eventful journey, very rich in terms of learning, not monotonous. I feel that I am fortunate to have discovered on how to be assertive and support the business while not losing my own ground. That’s the best part, isn’t it?
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
I moved out of the ‘city of dreams’ after pursuing law from Government Law College, while I had a PPO in my hand just to feed my own curiosity of what’s in store for me in a new city, in a new role? I just wanted to understand how a company works and what role does a lawyer play in building it. Many of my friends chose to work in law firms but somewhere I was determined to pursue an in-house role in real estate.
I am a very passionate human being and an extrovert as well, and I feel that it somewhere affected my first promotion. Early on, I remember when I got rejected for this promotion, I felt devastated. It undoubtedly was one of the first failures which I had tasted. I had been an academically bright student who predominantly scored well and therefore, it took a lot of time for me to heal.
During this phase, while I was trying to find job opportunities and relocate myself to Bombay, I largely faced rejections. I remember, feeling miserable about myself and questioning my own skills and choices. I held my patience and kept myself motivated and as they say “Tough Times Never Last, but Tough People Do!” and some fantastic opportunities came my way.
As I progressed in my professional journey as an inhouse counsel, I learnt a little later in life that you need to be very solution driven towards the business. A strict ‘no’ to a business proposal even with a solid rationale is something that may not work.
Among all the specializations, i.e., drafting, vetting, due diligence, risk mitigation, which area of law is the most interesting to you and why?
Risk mitigation to me is the most interesting. I believe that this exercise teaches you to research the moot points, evaluate and assess the business proposal accordingly. Alongside this, it also makes me build and present the best and worst business case for my stakeholders.
Having said that, doing due diligence and creating an title trail as a real estate lawyer is also challenging and interesting at the same time. As you may know that the land laws are very region specific and even consist of cryptic language, hence to derive and create a title trail is both complex and absorbing.
Jyoti, how do you balance your work and personal life effectively?
I believe that I am organised when it comes to my work and personal life both, which makes it very easy for me to balance both effectively. I love to travel which means I take frequent breaks and therefore planning is the key. I often try to work backwards which gives me immense time to think, strategize and plan my work and life, both. By following this thumb rule, I do not procrastinate and stress myself. I believe that work is an integral part of my life but not my whole life.
What can be some of the toughest considerations while someone from a non-legal background has to see before opting law as a career?
I do not see it challenging if someone from a non- legal background starts one’s journey as a lawyer. Having said that, the choice of a law school is very integral. I am proud to be a GLC’ite. As a student of GLC, I had the freedom to explore different fields of law by interning with law firms/ companies, senior counsels, or maybe just venture into a different horizon altogether. It essentially gave me time to introspect and perspective on who I want to become and most importantly how I want to be.
I am a first generation lawyer and feel that I have an advantage here, as I have the freedom to make mistakes without feeling any threat of being judged. With each mistake that I have committed, I have learnt to be wiser. All of our journeys are different and they can be absorbing yet very fulfilling, if we see from the right lens. We just have to dive in deep and we shall definitely find our way, the perspective has to be right.
What is a typical day like for you?
I am an early riser and start my work day usually around 9-9:30AM by checking/ replying to emails and messages. I, then write my to do list (and sometimes also get overwhelmed with the tasks that I have put down for myself to be completed in a day!) and then get started with the projects that have my top priority. I find that I am most productive during the day, hence I try to read as much as I can so as to advise my stakeholders on their business proposals or build strategies to move ahead before I start to jump into meetings and commence the contracting work. Before ending my work day I mostly look back and assess what’s one new thing which I learnt today. This is one of the ways which helps me to be grateful to the job that I do.
Jyoti, could you highlight some of your success habits that enable you to meet your goal?
The most important success habit which has always helped me to achieve results is discipline. I live by the principle that “discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishments”. Discipline helps me in taking charge of my own life be it professional or personal; it also helps me to train myself much ahead in time.
I also feel that performing yoga consistently, pursuing my hobby alongside work and travelling has helped me to largely reduce work fatigue.
Last but not the least, I feel that we must trust our leaders, mentors, team and colleagues. I fully echo the thought that together we can do so much, togetherness comes with a team and teamwork begins by building trust. With my own experiences, identifying and trusting my mentor/ leader and building a team has helped me in facilitating my accomplishments much earlier.
Lastly, what advice would you give to someone starting out?
For someone dreaming to choose law as their career, I believe that you should first assess if you are passionate towards pursuing it. One must be brave and also wise to assess what is the right thing to do. You also have to be patient in this journey and not fear to evaluate yourselves in different fields of law. To conclude, I feel that one must believe in oneself, have faith and make your own country proud.
“Every accomplishment starts with a decision to try”.
What was your motivation behind choosing law as a career?
Whilst growing up, the law always fascinated me. For some reason, there is a lot of misconception surrounding law as a profession. I was discouraged at many points in time by a lot of people from taking up this profession as well. However, I was determined to study law. My parents have been my biggest supporters and were overjoyed with my decision. Initially, I was intimidated by it all but gradually I started enjoying the learning process.
What are the challenges that are faced by budding litigators at the start of their careers?
With lakhs of students graduating from law schools/ colleges across the country, every year, the competition for freshers is fierce, to say the least. Not only to get a job, even to get an internship with a reputed firm, it is tough process.
It is important to gain exposure through internships and identify their ultimate area of interest within the law. In my second year of LLB, I was certain that I wanted to be a litigator and hence started my association with a reputed law firm in Mumbai, first as an intern and then as an articled clerk.
Freshers and interns are at the bottom of the hierarchy and are taken most advantage of, especially in litigation. In order to gain exposure, many a times, they agree to work for a miniscule amount or at no cost at all. I was blessed and privileged enough to not have any overheads. However, it is tough for a lot of freshers and interns to work without any salary stipend.
What are your thoughts on “Arbitration” as a mechanism for dispute resolution?
At the outset, I’d like to say that there is a noticeable shift during the course of the last few years. Contracts/ Agreements have but naturally become more arbitration centric. It is very rare that you would come across a contract/ agreement nowadays which would not contain an arbitration clause. Not only is Arbitration effective but it is also a speedy mechanism for dispute resolution. Having said that, arbitration has also got flack for being a “luxury” litigation i.e. there is a substantial amount of expenditure involved to conduct the same.
How do you make pleadings/ contracts understandable/ more accessible for your clients?
I enjoy drafting! It has always been a complete joy and pleasure for me to draft pleadings and other documents. Not all our clients are fellow lawyers and not all of them have any legal knowledge. The key to make you pleadings/ contracts understandable/ accessible to your clients is to keep your drafts as simple and concise as far as possible.
Talking about work-life balance, there has been ample amount of discussion on health issues as a lawyer, what do you believe are the best practices to maintain the equilibrium?
The legal profession is a demanding one. Urgent matters and tight deadlines are a common feature. Its only but natural that in such a demanding environment, individuals are exposed to high amounts of stress. In order to maintain balance, its important that one takes time off and undertake any activity(s) which helps them to relax. Mental health issues are often overlooked and not talked about.
Do not let this go unchecked and seek appropriate help. Nothing is more important than your health. As cliched as it sounds but “health is truly wealth”.
Lastly, what advice would you give to someone starting out in the field of litigation?
My advice to freshers and interns who want to be litigators, would be to read up on the various statutes. Sadly, there is a noticeable lack of knowledge of basic provisions of the CPC, in a lot of juniors, which is your foundation. Being in the legal profession, you never stop learning. Its constantly evolving.
Therefore, I think it is also very important to be abreast with the latest developments and judgments.
Lastly, hard work is definite key to success in this profession. More the effort you put into it, the more results/ benefits you can reap out of it.
Was pursuing law planned for you or it all happened in a flow? Kindly share with our readers.
I always wanted to do something different. Back in 2010, law was yet to be popular choice. I made a conscious decision to pursue law while most of my batchmates were preparing for IIT-JEE or the AIPMT. I was completely ignorant of the career prospects neither did I have anyone to speak to. The decision was indeed laden with risks, but it was worth it.
How has been your experience thus far dealing with critical arbitration matters, and how do you address this area to young minds in the legal profession?
As rightly said, most of the arbitrations that we work on are fact-heavy and high stake. So, there is no scope for any mistake. Significant time goes into understanding the technicalities, strategizing and executing. Each step has to be handled with utmost precision. While the entire process is often strenuous, the challenges are extremely enriching and wholesome.
There is sufficient scope for arbitration in India and the law is constantly evolving. I also witness a lot of interest for arbitration amongst the younger lawyers and even students. However, familiarity with the basic concepts is often lacking.
What is your take on the scope of technology-related litigation in India?
Technology-related litigations are expected to surge in India with the introduction of Metaverse, NFTs, cryptocurrency etc.and changes totechnology laws (such as IntermediaryGuidelines and Digital Media Ethics Code Rules, 2021).
We are already experiencing a plethora of issues – ranging from regulatory concerns to privacy/data breach and money-laundering. Further, alleged cases of cyber-attacks, online frauds, impersonation, phishing, online defamation, hate speeches etc. have been on a high.
Lately we have been hearing there are a lot of challenges for women in litigation, be it late working hours or other issues, how do you deal with them? And what would be the same?
Challenges have always been there. Of late, the discussions surrounding these challenges have begun, which is a good start. Litigation is often perceived as a “men’s club” and it becomes difficult to pierce the stereotypes.
In several cases women have been forced to or gaslit into completely giving up litigation or making changes to their careers. Reasons are manifold. In certain cases, the compensation is meagre; thus, women are convinced into giving up litigation and be told – “It’s not worth it”. Late working hours and the frequent need to travel are also common reasons. Till date, there are courts which do not have proper toilets for women.
The unequal representation is even more prominent in courts in smaller towns and districts. In one of my outstation hearings, I had noticed the entire court complex just had two women on that day – the judge and myself.
I have consistently made efforts to do everything that is expected of a lawyer – to avoid any possibility of being the less preferred one. Be it travelling or working late or appearing in Court. With the able support of my seniors, several barriers have been broken. But there’s a long way to go.
What are the practices you implement to follow privacy in different legal matters or transactions and how the young generation should prioritize it further in their own careers?
Given that I work in a technology-driven law firm, there are advance high security systems in place to take care of privacy concerns within the firm. Even the interns are required to enter into non-disclosure agreements to prevent any situation of privacy breach.
As lawyers, it is our foremost duty to protect client documents and information from undue disclosure and understand the importance of client-attorney privilege. Young lawyers should be educated of the same. To start with, law schools should emphasise on these aspects as a part of the curriculum (Law of Evidence and/or Professional Ethics).
Above all, the younger generation must careful of the content they share on LinkedIn or other social media platforms.
Was there any roadmap that helped you thus far in your journey, or any mentor that supported you from the very beginning, please share how was it for you?
I have had the privilege of receiving unconditional support from my parents throughout my journey. I have also enjoyed the rare privilege of consistent support and encouragement from my seniors at work. While each one of us has the potential to succeed, it is this kind of support which helps in moving ahead. Further, I strongly believe in being genuine and honest to myself and my work.
I wouldn’t say it is a perfect world but these factors have helped me survive.
Could you highlight some of your success habits that enable you to meet your goal?
Most of my lessons are from my own mistakes. I believe, we learn best from our own mistakes. They make us think and hunt for better solutions. That’s what experience is to me.
I prioritise a healthy lifestyle. Thus, I plan each day in advance. This includes balancing my professional and personal lives and keeping them separate.
Lastly, what advice would you give to someone starting out?
There are certain basics for which there are no substitutes – work hard, think smart and be ethical.
But there is no generic advice which would be applicable to all freshers out there. The legal profession is generally very demanding, so plan each day well.
“Experience and live through your own journey and lessons. Do not compare yourself with others but compare yourself with your old self – if you’re a better person and a better lawyer than you were earlier.”
