Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Ajay Verma, Founder, Juris Chambers, on litigation, human rights and International Bridges to Justice

    Ajay Verma graduated in law in the year 2000 from Agra College affiliated to Dr. B.R. Ambedkar University (Formerly. Agra University) after pursuing a bachelor’s degree in science. In his final year, he interned under Mr. Jayant Bhushan, the then Standing Counsel to the Central Government and joined his Chambers after graduation. After a few years of core litigation practice, he started his law firm Juris Chambers in 2003.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His pre-law school days and experience with the National Cadet Corps (NCC)
    • Decision to pursue college against pressure to join the family business
    • His interests, activities and internships in law school
    • His learning experience under Mr. L. Nageshwara Rao, former Senior Advocate, presently a sitting judge of the Supreme Court
    • Starting up with Juris Chambers
    • His passion about human rights and involvement in the International Bridges to Justice as a Senior Fellow
    • Completing the International Investigator Course from the Institute of International Criminal Investigations and being accredited as a War Crime Investigator

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. Where were you born, brought up and completed your basic education? What was your initial career plan?

    I was born and brought up in Agra. I did my Bachelor of Science and LL.B. from a very old institution called the Agra College, which was established in 1823 by the endowments bequeathed by Pandit Gangadhar Shastri Ji, a renowned Sanskrit scholar in the service of Madhav Rao Peshwa of Gwalior. It is the oldest and biggest educational institute of northern India. During my college days I was actively involved in the National Cadet Corps (NCC) which motivated me to join the armed forces. I was an Aeromodeller during that time.

     

    You completed a B.Sc. (PCM) and also completed NCC Certificate (Air Wing) with Grade A. When you had a strong background in science and defence, why did you decide to take up law?

    Being a son of a jeweller, I had a lot of pressure from the family to join business. When I joined college, children of my relatives joined their respective family businesses. I was criticized by my relatives for not following this tradition. When I was applying for Air Force and Army through NCC direct entry, I realized that I must continue with my studies. Till the time I joined law school, I was not aware of its importance. However, once I started learning about law and the role of a lawyer in the society, I became passionate about legal practice. During my college days I participated in Indo-Nepal Cycle Expedition from Agra-Kathmandu-Agra for approx. 2500 KM organized for International Peace and Unity by the NCC. This expedition inspired me to continue towards pursuing my goals in life.

     

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    How was your law school experience? Looking back, is there anything you wish you had done differently? What activities were you involved in when in law school?

    (Ajay pursued law from Dr. B.R. Ambedkar University [Formerly Agra University] and qualified in the year 2000)

    The biggest challenge we faced during law school was with the curriculum, where only theory was taught. It was really challenging for a student of science to start learning about law. The best opportunity we got during our college days was our study circle which was created by our Principal Dr. Mukhtiyar Singh and Dr. N.K. Gosh, a very competent professor of English Department. Additionally, I used to participate in various debate competitions. We also wanted to conduct moot courts but we were not equipped enough in terms of the infrastructure.

     

    Did you complete any internships as a law student? Please describe each of them and your reasons for taking them up.

    In the year 1999, during my final year I joined the Chambers of Mr. Jayant Bhushan, Senior Advocate as an intern, who was the Standing Counsel to the Central Government at that time. During my internship, I learnt many skills from Mr. Bhushan, who was not only a good orator but also one of the finest Senior Advocates in the Supreme Court of India.

     

    How have additional  diplomas been useful to you later in your career? Do you think such additional certificate courses and diplomas are essential for a law student?

    (Ajay completed a Post Graduate Diploma in Cyber Laws and a Post Graduate Diploma in International Trade Laws from the Indian Law Institute, New Delhi.)

    Yes, I feel additional certificate courses and diplomas help students to expand their knowledge from traditional law curriculum to a specialized field of law. Interestingly, while I was interning under Mr. Jayant Bhushan, I joined these courses. Initially it was tough for me to handle internship in Delhi and college in Agra at the same time.  So I decided to travel from Agra to Delhi thrice a week to attend the chamber of Mr. Jayant Bhushan besides my evening classes at Indian Law Institute.

     

    How was your initial experience in litigation? Did you plan to continue with litigation at that time?

    (After graduating, Ajay worked at the Chambers of Advocate Jayant Bhushan followed by Sikri & Company and thereafter at the Chambers of Senior Advocate L. Nageshwara Rao, Supreme Court.)

    While in the office of Mr. Bhushan I decided to shift to Delhi to practice law. After Mr. Bhushan’s office my experience with Sikri & Company was also very good where I learnt about service law and industrial law. This office had a very good learning environment. I planned to continue with litigation and with the urge to learn more I joined the office of Mr. L. Nageshwara Rao, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court.  Those were my golden days of learning when I was with Mr. L. Nageshwara Rao Sir who is now a sitting Judge of the Hon’ble Supreme Court of India.

     

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    In 2003, you established Juris Chambers, a full-service law firm in Delhi. Please describe your experience of starting a law firm. What were the main challenges you faced? What important steps must one follow for setting up a law firm?

    Juris Chambers was started by me to work in litigation and it is not easy for a first generation lawyer to start up a firm independently. In spite of all the challenges I started this firm which not only focused on litigation but also advised many corporate clients on complex issues.

     

    What does Juris Chambers look for in potential candidates before recruiting them? What are the main management and HR practices that Juris Chambers follows?

    Before recruiting we look for the competency of the candidate after evaluating his/her cv. The applicant’s interests in various subjects of law and commitment play a major role in the evaluation. We normally hire a person on probation for six months thereafter subject to mutual understanding hire them full time.

     

    You have been a Senior Fellow at the International Bridges to Justice. What do your responsibilities include?

    Let me first explain what is International Bridges to Justice (IBJ). It began its journey in 2000 and was founded by Karen Tse who is now the CEO of the organization. IBJ was created to promote systematic change in the administration of criminal justice at the global level. Karen Tse has been a public defender and graduated from UCLA Law School and Harvard Divinity School. IBJ is presently headquartered at Geneva, Switzerland.  IBJ is a non-governmental, apolitical and independent organization. It is registered as non-profit organization in the USA and in Switzerland. IBJ has spread its wings through various countries such as Burundi, Cambodia, Vietnam, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Myanmar, China, India, North America and various other countries from Europe. IBJ visualizes in helping make a world where the rights of every man, woman and child is respected in case of an arrest, where torture is eliminated as the cheapest mode of confession, where competent legal representation is provided, where everyone is aware about his/her rights and where international human rights are respected as local laws. IBJ’s approach is very simple and functions on three very basic principles: Defender Capacity Building, Criminal Justice Reform and Rights Awareness.

    As a Senior Fellow I am currently on the board of IBJ India and working towards the promotion of constitutional rights and other rights of people. I am also working towards improving the capacity of the Lawyers Representing poor persons/person in prison before various criminal courts.

     

    You have also completed the International Investigator Course from the Institute for International Criminal Investigations. What is the course about? What exactly does the course teach and how has it helped in your work at Juris Chambers?

    Well I have always been passionate about working for human rights so I attended this course. It teaches about War Crime Investigations. After completion I became a qualified International War Crime Investigator and by virtue of the same I have been taken on the roster of Justice Rapid Response (JRR) an organization based in Geneva. Justice Rapid Response (JRR) manages the rapid deployment of criminal justice and related professionals from a stand-by roster. These deployments can be requested by the international community to investigate, analyze and report on situations where serious human rights and international criminal violations have been reported. I love to work as volunteer for these causes whenever I get time from my actual court practice.

     

    You were a part of the Harvard – Kennedy School Executive Education and received a Certificate in Leadership. Please describe your experience at the academy.

    Attending this course helped me in understanding the importance of leadership and in clearing  many misconceptions about leaders. Prof. Marshall Ganz, a famous professor was our mentor who taught us about Leadership, Organizing and Action: Leading Change. In this course, participants practice leadership by organizing a leadership team to work with him or her to mobilize members of a “constituency” to work together to achieve specific outcomes in the pursuit of a shared purpose by the end of the course. Participants learn five core leadership practices: building committed relationships; using narratives to translate values into the capacity for agency; turning resources into power by strategizing; turning intentions into effective action; and structuring organization so as to develop leadership, engage constituents, and achieve goals.

     

    Lastly, what is your plan for the future? Would you like to give any advice for the current lot of law students?

    Besides expansion of practice of the firm I plan to be a lawyer who can work towards the improvement of the society, because whatever I am gaining is from the society and I have responsibility to contribute to its improvement. There are many areas where law students can become change makers by involving themselves in social activities. I also plan to promote the pro-bono culture in legal profession.  Law students during their college time may focus on their goals and work towards in achieving the same. They must utilize their time towards skill improvement by attending as many internships and courses as they can. In my view a true lawyer learns about law and skills throughout his/her life.

  • Nikhil Patel, LL.M. from University College of London, on being a Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals

    Nikhil Patel, LL.M. from University College of London, on being a Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals

    Nikhil Patel graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2010. He has worked with business teams, as a legal expert, in multiple jurisdictions, including India, Malaysia, South Africa on a variety of corporate and commercial issues. He has also managed litigation in civil, criminal and labour related matters in both India and South Africa.

    Recently, he moved from being the Chief Legal Officer of Cipla Medpro in Cape Town, South Africa to Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals in the Hague, The Netherlands. He has an LL.M. in Corporate and Commercial Law from the University of London and currently pursuing M.B.A. from the University of Warwick, both through distance learning courses.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Biggest hurdles in the early days of his career.
    • Role of an in house/general counsel in India.
    • Advise for law students on maintaining a good academic profile.
    • What recruiters look for in law graduates.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’m a 2010 graduate of Symbiosis Law School, Pune. I’ve worked with Suzlon, Biocon and Himatsingka in the past, and recently moved from being the Chief Legal Officer of Cipla Medpro in Cape Town, South Africa to Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals in the Hague, The Netherlands. I have an LL.M. in Corporate and Commercial Law from the University of London and am currently pursuing my M.B.A. from the University of Warwick, both through distance learning courses.

     

    What motivated you to pursue this field?

    I knew I wanted to be a lawyer from a relatively young age, although it was the allure of litigating in court at that point. This quickly changed during my time at college, where I found the intersection between business and law, particularly contract negotiation and creative problem solving, were much more attractive to me. This was particularly evident during my internships, since I enjoyed the in-house internships the most.

     

    What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle for me was about Law school is great for giving you theoretical knowledge, however it doesn’t prepare you very well for the practical side of being an in-house counsel. This meant a lot of late nights working on drafting styles, negotiation tactics and strategies and most importantly a superior that is willing to invest in training you, which is especially difficult in a typically underfunded and understaffed support team. I can’t stress enough on how important it is to find people in positions above you that are willing to spend time giving you context, exposure and knowledge.

    Practical legal training aside, there were some skills that I needed to learn (and/or bad habits that I needed to unlearn) like empathetic listening, a risk evaluation and mitigation approach rather than risk avoidance and having a thorough knowledge of the business behind the legal agreements I was negotiating.

     

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    What did your work profile at Cipla Medpro consist of and what do you now do at DSM Sinochem? What is the role of an in house/general counsel in India?

    My profile at Cipla Medpro included contract drafting and negotiation, litigation strategy and settlements, labour law, strategic advisory and transactional structuring, competition advice, corporate restructuring, compliance and a little IPR with a strong focus on the pharmaceutical sector in South Africa. The pharmaceutical focus continues at DSM Sinochem, though as a global role rather than limited to a particular geographical area.

    The in-house counsel is first and foremost a generalist. This means that you tend to do a little bit of everything and are expected to have knowledge (a working knowledge, at minimum) of everything. This means that you have to spend a lot of your time being up-to-date on not only the latest business updates of the industry sector, but also on legal updates pertinent to that sector. You play a vital role in the on-going business of your company – through contracts up and down the supply chain – as well as the future of the company by giving input on the strategic direction and advising on risk management and mitigation. Particularly with the rise in costs of external counsel (and reducing legal team budgets), companies are giving more and more responsibility to their in-house counsels, making the role more dynamic and exciting.

     

    What advice do you have for law students on maintaining a good academic profile?

    A good academic profile gives you a ‘foot in the door’. After that, it is up to you to make a great impression in the interview and ensure that you work hard to learn and add value to the place that you work. Of course it always helps that a good academic profile should indicate that your knowledge base is sound.

     

    What do recruiters look for in the current crop of law graduates?

    If you are a law graduate fresh out of college most recruiters will test your basic knowledge to ensure that you understand the fundamentals of the law. However, by far the most important aspect, at least from my experience, is attitude and ability. One of my previous superiors once commented while we were interviewing to fill a legal position that everything but attitude and ability can be taught and that those were often the hardest to find.

     

    When and how did you decide to pursue masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavor out of academic interests?

    I pursued my LL.M. simply because at the time I was working on a large number of agreements that were international and I wasn’t sure that I knew everything that I needed to know while I was drafting them. While it was difficult to manage my obligations and my studies, the LL.M. was fantastic in my opinion. It focused on teaching me how to apply the legal principals I was learning, and since I was working while I was studying the LL.M., I was able to put this into practice immediately.

    More recently I realised that if I wanted to grow further in the corporate world, purely legal knowledge is insufficient and that you also need an understanding of how HR, Finance, Marketing, Strategy and the other functions within a company operate. This realisation, coupled with the great experience of the distance learning LL.M. led me to begin the Distance Learning M.B.A. from Warwick Business School.

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    My advice would be, once you have decided that you want to practice law (whether in-house, at a law firm or as a litigator), make sure it is something that you truly enjoy doing. You’ll find that makes all the difference in whether you excel at it.

  • Abheek Saha, Amrit Lal Saha & Associates, on building a career in Investment Law

    Abheek Saha, Amrit Lal Saha & Associates, on building a career in Investment Law

    Abheek Saha graduated from M.S. Ramaiah College of Law, Bangalore (2007-2012). With a passion towards investment, he started investing at the age of 16 in the Indian stock market. Later, after the RBI rules were liberalized, started investing in the currency market. With a special interest in Investment laws, during the college days,he concentrated on the various changes – developments of Indian and foreign investment laws, arbitration, investment arbitration, Consumers Protection, Competition laws, etc.

     In this interview, he talks to us about

    • His experience at M.S. Ramaiah College of Law.
    • How did he develop a special interest in Investment Law.
    • His experience as a fresh graduate.
    • Important factors students should keep in mind while building their potential career graphs.

    How would you introduce yourself? Can you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Law was never a second choice for me. It was always first. The decision to pursue law may be because of both my personal interest and having already seen my father practice for many years.

    Like all 11th – 12th standard school students deciding on a career in law, I too searched for all the various places a law graduate can work after passing out of law college, and the search results the law firm, companies, or in the field of litigation broadly. The prospects looked good and that validated further my interest in law.

    Kindly acquaint us with your college life. What activities you were involved in apart from regular academic curriculum?

    I was in M.S. Ramaiah College of Law, Bangalore, and mostly stayed in hostel all through the 5 years and really lived the hostel life. Among all, the Ramaiah hostel was little exception with limited restriction on movement in the night and thus could explore Bangalore during those hours.

    Sports were quite limited and I only used to go for early morning basketball with hostelites near the Ramaiah Degree college and sometimes for the table tennis after classes in the old college building. Our college building shifted to a new one when we were in final year.

    Moot court was never part of our curriculum except during practical- the final two years. But I took special interest in them and in my second year participated in the Manfred Lachs Space Law Moot court competition – the ISRO funding round (NLSIU, Bangalore) and was really happy to see my Speaker score there. This was indeed my first moot court outside college. I also participated in Justice B R Sawhney Moot Court competition at NALSAR Hyderabad. I believe participating in these competition have broadened by research skills and also how to read, interpret and understand law during early days of law college. Apart from these two I have also participated in various intra and inter college competitions. We were Runners-up in ‘Mooting for Success’ organized by Law Department, Garden City College in 2010. My friend Satabish Ajjarapu who is presently a lawyer in Vizag was my Co-Speaker.

    How did you develop a special interest in Investment Laws? Did you have other areas of law that interested you? How did you ultimately choose your field of work?

    Investment related field was always my interest not only during law college days but from my school days. I used to do trading in stock market, later in currency market. So during law college there was a natural affinity towards investment laws. I have also completed a Diploma in Securities & Investment Laws from IIL, Bangalore.

    Presently through our law firm Amrit Lal Saha& Associates, we are advising lot of start-up companies, venture with really beautiful ideas through their conceptual stage to their growth stage. And Bengaluru being one of the best Start-up hub in the world, we get lot of such venture as our client. Sometimes we also cut down on our professional fees to help venture on their legal requirements and to see them in existence and thus enabling these companies and venture grow. As these companies are not all pursuing the same idea, dream and thus their requirements are quite different and these provides us the challenges and the drive to keep going.

    How can I learn to invest in the Indian stock market?

    I may not be the best person to answer this question. I don’t do it any more though. But on a general note I believe everyone can learn doing it.

    Is it a general assumption that the fresher graduates have to struggle a lot during the initial years, what was your experience?

    Struggle is an inevitable part of this profession and during initial years the struggle is definitely more. I believe the decision to pursue law as a career should not be driven by news, knowledge about how much a person is earning after passing out of law school and law colleges but by real passion in this field. I have seen Times of India publishing news about how good the placement was in NLSIU, Bangalore and then students taking decision to study law. At no cost this should be driving the decision to study law as it is not just another profession. Because long hours and focused determination and a desire to move on in the face of adversity, criticism shall bring success in this field.A famous saying of Justice Joseph Story which my father keeps reiterating “Law is a jealous mistress, and requires a long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favours, but by a lavish homage”. I believe the saying still holds goods but yes now we have lot more resources and a better faster way to search save them which helps the lawyer a lot in the profession.

    I started my career with working at Bhasin & Co., New Delhi. I was very excited then as I had my first interaction in that office with Mr Lalit Bhasin himself who had directed his Partner to conduct interview for me. It was rare to get through the firm without any reference and thus having got an offer to work there without any such references I was more happy. Eventually I have quit the firm due to personal obligations and have started on my own, firstly as a Co-Founder and Legal Counsel of a company and then as a part of Amrit Lal Saha& Associates. Now we have a good client base and things look good from here. But we had our share of struggle and our effort still continues to make things better.

    Tell us about your approach towards the long term and the short term goals you had set during the academic period and how were you able to manage it?

    Our priorities change with changing circumstances and thus I would say not all short term goals were met but slowly working towards accomplishing the long term goals. And it is those long term goals which ultimately decides our working and engaging strategies.

    Considering the nature and importance of this profession what according to you should be the focus of the law students at the law schools? What are the important factors which students should keep in mind while building their potential career graphs?

    I would say students should not be very specific during early college days about corporate or litigation or any other field but should intern and gain understanding of each such field and thus explore. 5 years college time which is a long time and the last 2 years can be spent focusing on the specific sector where they would start working.

    You have several publications to your credit! How do you choose when to write about what? Do you think research and publishing is very important for a law student?

    I have always written only in my areas of interest and choosing a topic I believe becomes easy when a person is keeping track of the changing laws and how it is evolving.

    I won’t say it is very important to write but definitely when a law student writes it helps somewhere and he can also keep track of how the law is evolving.

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    Everyone sets goal and even I have done for myself. In brief I would like to see the firm grow and we are able to address larger issues and clientele.

    What is your parting advice to our readers?

    For law students I will advise not to have a frozen goal for yourself but a dynamic one because we are social engineers and the law changes as the society changes and so should we.

     

  • Pranit Saxena, Founder, lawyerouno.com, on being a Manager at Tata Consultancy Services

    Pranit Saxena, Founder, lawyerouno.com, on being a Manager at Tata Consultancy Services

    Pranit Saxena graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. He currently works with TCS as a Manager in the BFSI-LPS sphere. He is part of the core team setting up GRC expert augmentation for an EU based clearing bank. The task involves the staffed GRC experts assisting the chief compliance officer with BFSI specific compliance across EU, APAC and Americas.

    Pranit is also the founder of lawyerouno.com. Lawyerouno is a social venture that helps clients contact and make appointments with any lawyer for free. It searches the most appropriate lawyer per the client’s needs.

     In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience at Symbiosis Law School.
    • Importance of higher studies for a lawyer.
    • com- where clients contact and make appointments with any lawyer for free.
    • His views on international financial situation owing to upcoming regulations and situations.

    Please introduce yourself to our readers, where did you grow up and complete your initial education? How did you decide to take up law?

    Hi, I am Pranit. I am currently working with TCS setting up their international compliance practice. My initial education was across six cities including Bathinda, Nagpur, Pithoragarh, Noida, Pune etc. in Army Public schools and Kendriya Vidhayalas owing to my dad being in the forces. After a lot shunting, I finally passed my 12th from Noida. I decided to take up law based on my discussions with my teachers in school and my penchant for getting in trouble with the system (school system i.e. repeatedly getting in trouble with the school administration) and I guess it had worked out fine till now.

    You have graduated with BBA LLB Degree from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    So Symbiosis back in 2006 was unlike any other law school that you would see right now. We had a limited campus, amazing faculty and even a better ecosystem of students from various fields (symbiosis law school was in the arts and commerce campus). This heterogeneity of students gave us a very early exposure to variety of disciplines and opportunities. It was rightly called the Oxford of the East, as the student community in Pune was very strong. They were perineal college festivals, competitions that used to go on and provided me ample opportunities to explore. Symbiosis Pune had no hostel in the campus and we used to live independently in the city, which was a huge learning in itself. The teachers came from a varied background and were very supportive and encouraging. Apart from the obvious knowledge, what Symbiosis uniquely provides every student, is the independent attitude and a corporate ready culture, which most of us would learn post our law school.

    Did you do any internship? What was the work allotted to you like?

    I completed 24 weeks of internship across law firms like Barucha, fox mandal, companies like Larson & Tubro and Supreme Court attorneys like P.P. Rao. The spectrum covered was intentionally larger to experience a variety of fields within the legal industry. The work allocated was usually around the research projects in law firms, case file summarization in Supreme Court and high courts and occasional arbitration work for L&T. The work also included being a part of the client/vendor meetings with the seniors and keeping a note of issues.

    How did you manage internship with studies? How did the practical exposure compliment the theoretical knowledge imparted to you in college?

    Back then in Symbiosis, internships were only allowed during breaks, which made sure there was never and conflict and balancing the internships with the mandatory attendance requirement was never a challenge.

    The court internships really helped in enhancing the nuances of the procedural laws which helped appreciate the theoretical knowledge.

    There is a huge gap between what we study and what we implement as lawyers in practice. With that being said, all the knowledge and experience in college forms a very robust base for what we lawyers are expected to do at work.

    Do you consider pursuing higher studies after graduation? How important is it for a lawyer to go for higher studies? Were you inclined at any time, towards the civil services?

    Not really till now. Although I feel certifications in specialized fields can add a lot of value to the entire candidature for future opportunities. Higher studies in my view, is helpful if you are looking for a career shift like teaching, MBA, etc. Higher studies can also buy you time in case you are inclined towards exams like civil services, judiciary etc.

    A civil services exam is a different ball game and students must start preparation while in law school as the time period of five years is a huge opportunity in itself. No doubt it is a brilliant career choice.

    Tell us something about lawyerouno.com.

    Lawyerouno is my love-child that I started three years back, just to give something back to the community. It is a platform which connects people looking for lawyers to lawyers for free. We have lawyers from over 60 cities on the portal. We started the venture with a social outlook and we are still trying to be true to it. The basic thought, behind the idea was to provide young lawyers who want to set up their practice, an opportunity to connect with clients. We are also planning a few products on the portal to provide competitive pricing advantage to the clients.

    How difficult was it for you to connect and convince different lawyers to register on lawyerouno.com?

    As the registration for lawyers on the portal was free and the intention was to provide them with an opportunity to connect with the clients, I actually did not face any resistance from them, although the technology for some senior lawyers was a challenge, which we circumvented by assisting them with a unique live chat support feature.

    What is the international financial situation owing to upcoming regulations and situations?

    My current role in TCS involves setting up of compliance support practice for financial sector clients. The financial world ever since the 2008 crisis is in a state of flux. The regulatory authorities are driving regulatory dynamism as an instrument of change. The more they want to be in control the tougher it is getting for the companies. The Brexit will spur a marked shift for financial companies trading or headquartered in the UK. The companies are vying for the regulatory advantage and gearing up their compliance departments for various new regulations like Mifid II, EMIR, Basel 3 etc. More the regulations better it is for us! All in all it is looking good for the lawyers in the compliance sphere.

    Would you say that the work environment at an LPO is completely different from a law firm?

    Although my current profile is consulting, my initial experience with Thomson Reuters in the LPO sphere convinced me that whatever notion we as law students have about LPOs is completely unfounded. In fact if you are looking for a career in corporate as opposed to litigation, LPO is a very good option as it provides you with the right learning opportunities, international exposure and a good work life balance. Several of my colleagues are now well-placed in the field of contracts and forensics with various fortune 500 companies and start-ups. Right after my stint with TR in the Compliance department, I was involved with a start-up Mind Merchants for setting up their global compliance practice, which started with 3 people and is now already 45+, hence my experience within LPO spurred my growth as a legal professional. The stark difference between the work cultures that I see between these industries is the autonomy and independence that any year 1-3 associate gets at an early stage in their career.

    What were your objectives and plans in the preliminary years of the law school?

    As any other student in the initial years the motive was to have fun and explore the college life to the Tee. It is the only in the penultimate and the final year, that I decided to chalk out a plan for myself. The plan was to identify what I enjoyed more, hence most of my firm internships were in those years which made me sure that I did not see it as my life choice.

    Lastly, what message would you leave for our budding lawyers?

    I urge students to explore themselves as much as possible instead of following treaded path blindly and choose what is best for them as a life choice rather than a career choice. Try not to be bound by what you hear, but channelize your choices around what you experience. Five years of law school is an opportunity, so use it well. All the best!

  • Biplab Lenin, Consultant, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building up expertise in Intellectual Property Rights

    Biplab Lenin graduated from Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual property law (2009-2012). He is a qualified attorney with more than 4 years of both law firm and in-house experience in dealing with general corporate and intellectual property matters. He is registered to practice before Indian patent office and currently working with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas at its Delhi office. His core areas of work include wide range of transactions, general advisory and intellectual property matters. He has acted on some of the significant and complex transactions that the intellectual property team has been involved with.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • How he build up expertise in IPR.
    • Primary essentials of a corporate lawyer.
    • Professional ethics one should follow while at work.
    • Basic subjects one should understand before sitting for an interview.

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law students, law aspirants or professionals in the legal arena?

    I am currently working as a Consultant with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas in New Delhi. My practice areas include intellectual property laws and corporate laws. I am a registered patent agent at Indian patent office. I completed my LL.B. from Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law (RGSOIPL) in IIT Kharagpur Campus and also hold a graduate degree in Biotechnology Engineering.

    Were you always as fascinated by the field of IP Law or was it an acquired passion that set in through your college years?

    Since my father is also a lawyer, I was never a stranger to legal discussions which my father often used to do with his friends over evening tea after a long day in Court. Nevertheless, after 12th standard I followed the crowd of students doing engineering. In the last semester of my engineering, there was a subject called ” Intellectual property Rights”. Somehow, it attracted me quite a lot mainly because it involved both technology and law. That led me to apply for the course at RGSOIPL at IIT Kharagpur. I guess I was lucky to have studied under tutelage of good teachers and in a diverse peer group that IIT offers. Though I had an inclination towards IP subjects, at the same time, I wanted to do my internships on other subjects as well. Hence, I did internships with law firms as well as corporate in the domain of general corporate law, taxation, disputes, technology transfer and intellectual property law.

    How did you build up your expertise in IPR? Tell us about your work experience.

    My first hands on training on practical aspects of law happened in my internship at Monsanto. After finishing law school, I joined Mahyco as an in-house Counsel where I worked on different IP laws like patents, trademarks, plant variety, biological diversity and technology transfer. More importantly, interactions with several eminent scientists and stalwarts in the agri-biotech domain helped me realize the importance of understanding the technical nuances of the technology involved in any IP law. My engineering education helped me a lot in this area.

    After completing three and half  years of satisfying work at Mahyco, I joined Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas at Delhi where I am working on matters related to patents, plant variety, biodiversity, transfer & assignment of Intellectual property and general corporate transactions. On litigation front, I am a part of the team which is handling patent infringement and drugs ban litigation before the Delhi high Court. 

    Tell us about your schooling and early life. What do you think are the habits that you cultivated which help you today?

    I did my schooling from Sainik School in Bhubaneswar from Class 6th till Class 12. I think the values of integrity, camaraderie which are a hallmark of the army, are ingrained in me now. Also, Sainik School gave us a lot of endurance training, which helps me when I have to work for long hours in the Firm! I feel that my school experience was also quite instrumental in putting me at ease in any group with diverse cultural backgrounds, which is helpful for an attorney whose work involves people interaction.

    How are internships helpful for a law student? What are the other options available for someone interested in IP?

    Internships have a role to play in one’s professional career as a lawyer. They help us in learning how the law is practically applied. Also, business aspects of transactions are also better appreciated in internship. Skills like corporate communication are sharpened during internship. For those who are interested in making a career in IP, I suggest doing first internship under a practicing lawyer to get a feel of our justice delivery system. It is also important to look for quality work rather than brand name. There is no point in securing an internship in a big organization where there is little work for an intern. Students can join an IP specialized law firm or corporate for doing internships.

    Having Said that, I also feel that one should not be obsessed with stuffing one’s CV with internships. It is important to remember that in college one is a “professional student”and one’s primary duty as a professional student is to study the law books and the basic concepts. What can be learnt in 10 internships over 5 years in a no-pressure situation can be learnt in 6 months in a pressure situation when one starts actually working after college. Many times these days, interns, who have finished more than 10-12 internships in their first 3-4 years of college, but unclear about fundamental legal concepts, which I believe is injustice to one’s profession as a student.

    How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    I have always had a problem with this concept which pre-supposes that work and life are different and need to be balanced. I believe the first step in achieving work-life balance is to love yourself and love your work. Luckily I do both! Presently my focus is on honing my skills. I believe I’m being paid to learn now so I’m not complaining at all! I also believe that even at a senior level people do get time for themselves while managing work and I feel this should not be a concern for us at least at the beginning of our career.

    Any extra-curricular or co-curricular activities did you take up during your time at RGSOIPL and engineering? How did the same affect your learning experience and prepare you for the legal sector?

    I participated in a few moot court competitions during my college. However, I enjoyed parliamentary debate competitions more and also participated in several case study competitions conducted at IIT Kharagpur. During my engineering days as well, I have participated in several paper and poster presentations.

    However, apart from legal skills, I used extra-curricular activities to build my communication skills and inter-personal skills. I was one of the founding members of moot court society and conducted the first parliamentary debate competition at RGSOIPL.

    During my law school days, I worked as a volunteer in an NGO named “Independent Thought” based in Delhi. The NGO works for the Eradication of Social Disparity and Injustice by promotion of Fundamental and Socioeconomic Rights. I used to assist team in doing research and preparing reports with regard to remedies on issues relating to child labour. This experience showed me the humane side of the law and it still keeps my sensitivity intact and reminds me that beyond all the paper work and legal arguments there are real people who are affected by what I do.

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilize the opportunities available?

    I would suggest a two-pronged approach:

    1. Many students are thinking about doing an LL.M, immediately after LLB. I feel that an LL.M. without any work experience is just an LLB with some more semesters and a thesis.
      I strongly encourage fresh graduates to take up some professional assignment of their liking instead of academics, be it with a law firm or corporate or even NGO. You’re bound to be confused, so make sure someone’s paying you in the meantime!
    2. In college, we first pay fees and then we learn. In a job, we get paid to learn. Therefore, as a paid student, learn as much as you can about different areas of law and practice. It is important to remember that most books mention “law” and “practice” separately, for example Banking Law and Practice, meaning thereby that practice is something different from mere legal provisions. This will help you in choosing a particular field or subject for your career.

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    I think honesty towards the client and one’s colleagues is of utmost importance. One may be low on information about a legal concept, which can be gained, but honesty must come from inside. This of course is a basic human requirement in any profession, so all law graduates must also try to imbibe these values.

    Patience is also a vital asset. One must not get affected by looking at how others are doing in the profession.

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    I believe that honesty is the best policy. If there is a mistake, one should admit immediately. Mistakes are bound to happen especially in areas where human effort is involved. In face of mistakes, first requirement is to maintain a cool head, accept a mistake has been made and then immediately start working on a solution. When I’m the team lead, I own the mistakes of my team. I think clients too appreciate such candidness.

    What are the basic subjects which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    From point of view of legal concepts, basic understanding of the following 5 subjects is a must for any civil lawyer regardless of any interview:-
    1. Contracts (including sale of goods and specific relief)
    2. Transfer of property
    3. Evidence
    4. Registration and stamp duty (basic concepts not details)
    5. Constitution (basic concepts)

    Thereafter, one may try to gauge the requirements of any specific interview and prepare accordingly.

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line?

    Hopefully still on the line!! Jokes apart, my first aim is to build my expertise in my domain, which is more of an internal process. I haven’t really given a thought to any particular designation as such. But I would like to be a lawyer who has earned atleast two things – complete trust of  clients which  allows them to sleep peacefully as far as their legal worries are concerned; and respect from seniors and peers in the profession regarding my professional ethics and competence. Apart from this, designations are trivia!

    Please compare RGSOIPL with other law schools.

    RGSOIPL is a unique law school because admission itself requires a degree in technology or medicine. Being a part of IIT Kharagpur campus, it has an IIT-style admission process with entrance test, group discussion and interviews, which is a great learning in itself. It attracts students from all over the country, which helps in enriching one’s culture and view of life. Also, studying law in the IIT Kharagpur campus in the midst of the crème-de-la-crème of India’s technical brains, gave me 2 important lessons –

    • Law is an instrument to facilitate business and technology;
    • Law cannot be learnt or applied in isolation without an eagerness to learn the technical dynamics of any business.

    RGSOIPL also benefits from the infrastructure of IIT. We had access to major online legal resources like Westlaw, Manupatra and Hein online apart from books.  There are various co-curricular activities which one can pursue to unwind from demanding course schedule.

    How is your experience in working as In house and then shifting to law firm?

    Being an In-house counsel helps to learn the significance of law as a toll for business. However, I would advise to have law firm and court experience at the initial stages of the career and learn court proceedings and allied matters and then shifting to in-house.

    Shifting from In-house to a law firm is tough from a work pressure point of view. Also, subject experts are readily available when you are working in-house, which may not be the case in a law firm full of mostly lawyers. Anyone who wishes to develop a very particular specialization should work in in-house IP department. Law firm gives you a more diversified work. Needless to say, law firm working hours are more strenuous. However, learning as well as growth is much speedier in a law firm.

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    An excellent CGPA is always good. However, it is important to co-curricular and extracurricular activities as well. Read as much as you can. Take risks when it is required. It is not necessary that every risk you take will result in success. There will be failures too.

    It is important to not think too seriously about oneself and one’s so-called reputation etc. while taking professional decisions. I think the most vital part is that one should feel good both as a human being and a lawyer.

     

  • Mr. Surendra Naik, Additional Collector and Additional District Magistrate, North Goa, on his experience at law school and mantra for success.

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    Mr. Surendra Naik, Additional Collector and Additional District Magistrate, North Goa, graduated in law from V. M. Salgaocar College of Law in the year 1999 and shares his views and experiences in his long and successful career. This Interview was conducted by AJAY BORKAR of GR Kare College of Law

    IN THIS INTERVIEW HE TALKS ABOUT:

    • Being part of Government setup

    • His responsibilities as a Magistrate and

    • Views on retirement

     

    1. What could be a short introduction of yourself?

    A humble ordinary citizen of India, with zeal for social work and to contact with common people, to work for their cause.

    2. Please elaborate on the motivating factors which helped you in choosing legal studies?

    Right from my childhood, I always dreamt of being part of the Indian judiciary since my father always wished that I either become a lawyer or a judge.

    3. How would you describe your academic career while at V. M. Salgaocar College of Law, Goa?

    I did my three years degree course in law in V. M. Salgaocar College of Law. I was privileged to have good faculty, who introduced me to the various legal aspects and assisted me in understanding them. I was ranked 1st in all three years at the Goa university.

    Further, as the institution was located in Panaji which is a hub for lawyers, I had the opportunity to intern with advocate F.E. Noronha in Panjim, wherein I gained some practical knowledge of dealing with the clients and attending cases in court.

    4. What role do you think mooting plays in a law student’s life?

    I hold moot courts at a very high esteem. I think each and every student of law should compulsorily participate in moot court. It enhances their power of understanding and analysing legal situations and enhancing their power of arguments and plays a major role in their overall personality development and legal ethics.

    5. Please tell us about how you decided to pursue your career in civil services? Were you considering any other opportunities?

    After completing by graduation in law, I applied and received Sanad from the Bar Council of Maharashtra and Goa. Also, I joined the chamber of Adv. F.E. Noronha in Panjim, who was basically practicing in various Civil Courts, Tribunals, Revenue Court and also in the High Court of Bombay at Goa. I had an opportunity to work with him for about 7 months. During this time, there appeared an advertisement for post of Mamlatdar, Joint Mamlatdar and Asst. Director of Civil Supply through GPSC, for which I casually applied.

    Thereafter I received a letter for written examination for which I appeared and then I received a letter for oral interview by the GPSC and subsequently I topped the said examination and oral interview and was ranked first in the selected candidates and immediately thereafter I received appointment letter as Mamlatdar. I always wanted to be a Civil Judge or Judicial Magistrate First Class, but during that time there were no advertisement of civil judge. The requirement was 3 years practice as lawyer which I could not fulfill.

    6. What has your experience with legal education been like and how relevant do you feel it has been to your profession after graduating in law?

    As per me, my legal education has helped me immensely. It changed my attitude and my way of looking towards everything. Qualification in Law was the basic requirement for the post of Mamlatdar. It also helped me immensely in discharging my duty as Presiding Officer of the Revenue Courts and also for performing many other quasi-judicial functions.

    7. What are your main responsibilities as the Additional District Magistrate of North Goa?

    Presently I am posted as Additional Collector and Additional District Magistrate, North Goa. My primary functions are mainly Administrative and I also carryout Quasi-Judicial functions under numerous Acts like the Mamlatdar Court Act, Land Revenue Code, RTI Act, etc. The criminal jurisdiction includes maintenance of law and order and various other preventive actions. I also have a duty of granting arm licenses under arms Act.

    8. Do you think the level of law studies has gone down as compared during your time?

    I don’t agree with this. However I think that as the time progresses, the law colleges are becoming more and more professional and training its students in various aspects. Even the introduction of 5 year course is a great step towards legal education. I think compared to our time, there is a lot of improvement in legal education and imparting of professional training to law students.

    9. How do you manage your personal and professional life? Do you keep both separate?

    Apart from professional life, one’s personal life is equally important. And one has to strike a perfect balance between both of them, if your personal life gets disturbed it also adversely affects your professional life. So you should also give time for your family.

    10. Where do you see yourself after your retirement?

    I think there is nothing like retirement in life. One should always keep on continuously contributing to society. Government service is just one phase and there are various opportunities for a competent person to contribute to the society, even after attaining the age of superannuation. One must always keep his body and mind healthy to live life to its fullest satisfaction.

    11. Do you have any advice to all our readers out there?

    It is only hardwork which is the key for success in any field and there are no shortcuts. Shortcuts are only for short term benefits. It is only hardwork which gives you success on long term basis. Overall apart from your hardwork there should always be honesty in whatever you do.

     

  • Justice Desmond D’ Costa, on bringing justice to the people, legal education and the Indian Judicial System

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    Justice Desmond D’Costa is the Principal District and Sessions Court Judge, South Goa, graduated in law from G.R. Kare College of Law in the year 1982 and answered his Judiciary Examinations in 1992 and has been a judge for the past 24 years. He possess an experience of over 34 years in the legal industry and encourages the students participate in various activities in order to get more experience. His main goal is to serve the society. This Interview was conducted by Dietrich Almeida of GR Kare College of Law

    IN THIS INTERVIEW HE TALKS ABOUT:

    • What motivated him to become a judge

    • Serving for the cause of justice and bringing justice to the people

    • Legal Education

    • The Indian Judicial System and

    • His advice to law students intending to join the Judiciary

    1. HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF, GIVEN THAT MOST OF OUR READERS ARE ASPIRANTS OF LAW AND SERVICES, LAW STUDENTS AND PROFESSIONALS?

    I am the Principal District and Sessions Court Judge Desmond D’Costa. I graduated from G. R. Kare College of Law in the year 1982. I’ve been an advocate for 10 years before I answered the judiciary exams in 1992. From 2002 to March 2016, I was an Additional District Judge. I’ve been a judge for the last 24 years. So you can say I’m a follower of law. It has been 34 years since I’ve done my law. In a way you can say I live law, I breathe law, we don’t eat law but we live and breathe law.

    2. WHAT WAS YOUR LIFE LIKE AFTER GRADUATING AND HOW DID YOU BEGIN FOCUSSED PREPARATION IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE YOUR GOAL?

    Like I said I graduated in 1982 and my objective was to serve the cause of justice. So I practised as a lawyer for several years and then when there was an opportunity to join the judiciary I applied for the post of a judge. And I was selected as a judge in 1992. And ever since that time I’m trying to see in what way I can serve the society such as deciding cases as quickly as possible and not keeping matters pending. We always criticize the system, but in joining the system and doing my contribution that’s the way I achieved my goal.

    3. ALONG WITH YOUR HARD WORK AND CAPABILITY, WHICH INDIVIDUAL WOULD YOU LIKE TO ACCORD CREDIT TO IN ATTAINING YOUR GOAL?

    When I became a judge I and my fellow colleagues used to interactions among ourselves and at the end of the day we would sit together and discuss our problems. So you can say my fellow colleagues, my fellow judicial officers are the people I give credit to. Like we always used to share as the saying goes “Knowledge is only a drop in the ocean”, you can read books but sometimes you might not be able to grasp it or remember it but what you get from discussions with your colleagues and sometimes even with lawyers is entirely different. We used to share experiences and in this way improve and sharpen our focus and sharpen our law.

    desmond-34. WHAT WERE YOUR AMBITIONS BEFORE JOINING LAW AND WHAT LED TO YOUR INCLINATION TOWARDS LAW?

    Firstly, I don’t come from a family of lawyers. So when we were students we used to always see injustices all around us. So many students used to fight against injustices. Once you get involved in society, advocates now make you go for legal aid clinics so you see the trouble that people face. And sometimes cases don’t get over and people are frustrated with the system. There’s a lot of distrust and disgust in the system, that is what we felt and thought, let us see in what way we can contribute to put faith in the system. My experience with the student’s movement and tackling different social issues at our level as students made us interested in seeing in what way we could mould the law to bring justice to the people.

    5. DO YOUR FEEL THAT IN INDIA THERE IS STILL A BIT OF RESISTANCE TOWARDS LEGAL EDUCATION?

    So what they say is that the legal profession doesn’t have green pastures, like a student who does his engineering or medicine they start earning immediately. But now of course in Indian law schools such as national universities, students who study there get very good positions. But in Goa, advocacy implies once you are qualified in law and start practicing, for 4- 5 years you have to attend the courts and see the how it functions. Thereafter, by the time people have confidence in such a lawyer, which is very important as no one will entrust a case to you unless he is sure that you’ll win the case for him, it is what’s called a long gestation period. No doubt that some new graduates who come out of law are well experienced by attending courts and they know most procedures and that is why they are able to start practicing immediately but then you have to be with a senior counsellor. Nowadays judgements are easily accessible over the internet but then to win people’s confidence you have to chisel or polish yourself into a well rounded professional which only experience gives you.

    6. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO APPLY FOR JUDICIAL EXAMS?

    Well, I never had a wish to be a judge. As they say life is an accident. So, along the road of life, after I became a lawyer, I continued supporting people for the causes of justice as I’ve said before instead of throwing stones at the system as I felt that it is better to join the system and try to be the change. That’s when I applied for the judicial post and completed my exams. I think that I cannot be a judge by myself but I am a part there in the judiciary.

    7. PEOPLE HAVE A TENDENCY TO IGNORE MOOTS, DEBATES AND EXTRA CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES IF THEY WANT TO GO INTO JUDICIARY OR CIVIL SERVICES. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

    This is very true because ultimately what happens is that the lawyer has to develop self-confidence. Further, knowing the law by heart and having academic knowledge but not being able to put it into use is of no utility because ultimately law is to be applied in day to day events and to solve the problems and issues in regards to which your clients will come to you. You have to know the remedy and tell them how to tackle their problems. And all this comes partly from experience by participating in moots, debates and extra-curricular activities makes you an all-round citizen.

    It also gives you a social exposure and makes you more practical. There’s a vast difference between the law written in the books and law in practice. Only when you take part in moots, debates, only then your skills sharpen and your outlook broadens. Take the example of a frog in the well in this regards, the size of the sky for the frog is only the small blue part that he can see. So in order to see the whole blue sky he has to come out of the well. In other words, every student should come out of the well and have a broadened approach. He should not be confined to the walls of his room or library but he has to go out and take part in skits, legal aid clinics, speak to people and also learn their language because in the classroom we speak in English but with clients you have to speak in the local language. Therefore, moots, debates and extra-curricular are very important.

    justice-desmond-dcosta8. HOW IS A TYPICAL DAY AT WORK LIKE?

    A judge’s life is 24×7. We hardly have time. And at the end of the day I try to finish the work I have for the day by reading the files and avoiding postponing the dates of judgment. We have to keep on reading. There’s no time to breathe but of course I enjoy it. I would try to do what’s best for the system. The better equipped you are with knowledge the greater use you can put into society. A gain in our knowledge helps us to be more efficient in our work.

    9. DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE IS A NEED TO IMPROVE ON THE SYSTEM OF DELIVERING JUSTICE?

    The Indian judicial system is a system which is so overburdened, the backlog of cases are clogging the wheels of justice. That’s why people say once you enter into the court your life is finished. In India we have a lot of law commissions which keep on saying that the proportion of judges in India presently is 50 per million. So a number of law commissions have recommended that they increase the number of judges and increase the number of courts. This is one of the main reasons for the big backlog of cases. In the last few years, the Supreme Court on their own have been taking the initiative and has been acting as a motivating factor. That is why we have bought in arbitration, mediation, conciliation and negotiation. We also try to have more lok adalats. Now every month we have got a national lok adalat. We are trying to use alternate dispute resolution techniques, (ADR). So in this way we can at least convince people and try to settle disputes. So delivery in justice in the system can occur only if there’s quick delivery of justice, now because of the back log in cases, because of shortage of courts, there’s more and more cases that are piling up. Then the procedures that we have are so lengthy and every order is challenged in the higher court and this is also one of the reasons for delay in justice. So now we have fresh blood coming into the system and the country itself is a country of youth let us hope that they bring a change.

    10. WHAT WILL BE YOUR SUGGESTIONS TO OUR READERS WHO WISH TO JOIN JUDICIARY? WHAT ARE THE ESSETIAL QUALITIES ONE SHOULD CULTIVATE?

    To join the judiciary is in itself very challenging. A judicial post is not so lucrative, so, if you’re looking to becoming a millionaire than you shouldn’t be a judge but if you want to live and feel like you have some responsibilities to the society and want to give back to the society then it is the proper choice.

    To be a judge you have to develop and be balanced in your approach, be open to criticism, put in a lot of hard work and you have to have qualities of being a good human being, believing in good values such as honesty. These days not only in India but throughout the world there is a lot of corruption in public life. Corruption in public life in India is becoming a major challenge. So a judge is supposed to be an epitome of honesty and have good basic values because ultimately we are all social animals, so we have to see in what way we can improve our society. That’s what I tell some of my friends. If you remember that famous poem by Robert Frost, Standing in the woods of a snowy evening, in which he says “the woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep…” this is very inspiring as he says we have a lot of promises to keep. Keep this as you’re motive and you will be a big asset to the society because ultimately everyone thinks about himself first but it is not that we should be selfish but also think about others.

  • Mr. Dileshwar Naik, Prominent advocate and President of Vasco Bar Association, on his two decades journey in the legal field and advice to aspiring legal professionals

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    Mr. Dileshwar Naik, Prominent advocate and President of Vasco Bar Association, graduated in law from V. M. Salgaocar College of Law in the year 1997 and shares his views and experiences in his long and successful career. This Interview was conducted by SWITZY BRAGANÇA of GR Kare College of Law.

    IN THIS INTERVIEW HE TALKS ABOUT:

    • His inspiration to enter the legal profession

    • Importance of Academics Writing

    • His views on Human Rights Advocacy

    • His advice to law students

    1. CAN IT BE SAID THAT COLLEGE STUDIES PREPARE YOU FOR REAL LIFE PRACTICE IN COURTS?

    Well, College years are full of fun, however studies are or atleast during my college days were limited to academics and it did not help much in real life practice in courts. Even mooting with academic interest just to score marks doesn’t help law students to succeed in legal field. The subject and the cases which are chosen should be with an eye on legal practice and more and more mooting with the help of expert lawyers will definitely help students when they join practice.

    The best way to prepare for real life practice is to actively take part in the functioning of the court by perhaps joining a practicing lawyer and even through internships. The Practical knowledge and training which I received from my senior Mr. Ulhas Shetye helped me a lot in practice as I got lot of exposure from him.

    2. WHAT SHOULD A LAW STUDENT DO IN YOUR OPINION TO SHAPE HIS/HER PROFILE IN THE LAW FIELD?

    A law student should during their academics if keen to join practice should join some lawyers office or firm and take practical training which will help them to choose their specialization and also make them more confident and ready to take up the challenges when they join real practice in courts.

    3. HOW IMPORTANT YOU THINK ACADEMICS WRITING IS FOR A LAW STUDENT WHO WANTS TO BE AN ADVOCATE?

    Academic writings, as it is practiced currently, I believe are limited to examination and marks and a student who wants to be an advocate needs practical training more than academic writing. Exposure in various courts and learning the procedures in courts helps a person to be a better advocate than the one who concentrates only on academics.

    4. WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO BECOME AN ADVOCATE?

    My late father, who was a police officer always wanted dileshwar-naik-3me to be a professional rather than taking up service though I was more keen to become a police officer like my father. However, as time went on, I realized that I had an interest in the subject that is collectively known as law and this interest slowly tilted me towards the profession.

    5. IS THERE ANY SKILL OR SECRET YOU PICKED UP OVER THE YEARS THAT YOU BELIEVE IS CRITICAL TO A LAWYER’S SUCCESS?

    I would say your devotion and experience automatically improves your skills as a lawyer and more importantly a lawyer should agree with the merits of his or her case and prepare for the case. Similarly is your discipline and behavior in the courts and with your clients. One needs to be sincere to the client and the courts and follow the ethical values for success and it does not need special skills.

    6. TELL US HOW YOU HAVE MANAGED TO HANDLE YOUR FAMILY AND LAW SIMULTANEOUSLY?

    It’s a very tough question, because once you take up the legal profession you are a lawyer 24 hours a day and that very often makes it difficult to handle your family but that again depends upon your time management. A lawyer needs to plan the timings and that is how I have managed both family and law.

    7. WHAT IS YOUR IN HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCACY IN INDIA OVER THE NEXT DECADE?

    There is definitely a change and a positive change in India and for lawyers to only depend on human rights advocacy, only time will tell. No doubt people are getting aware about their rights and privileges and education is playing a big role. So human rights violations are taken note by everyone.

    8. DO YOU HAVE ANY PARTING ADVICE FOR ALL OUR READERS OUT THERE?

    A lawyer who wants to make legal profession his ultimate goal then has to undergo hardships for at least the first five years, get well versed with the procedures of courts and educate himself and keep track of the latest developments in the legal field. Similarly lot of reading and being sincere to your clients, courts and to your colleague. Follow the legal ethics and prepare your case well in advance before you put up the case in court rather than last minute preparation like we are used to do for academical exams.

     

  • Alladi Venkatanarayana, retired advocate on internships, higher studies and litigation

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    Advocate Alladi Venkatnarayana (retd.) hails from a small town in Andha Pradesh, known as Nellore, but settling in Chennai in later years. He is a graduate of the Madras Law College in Chennai, now known as the Dr. Ambedkar Government Law College. Having initially worked under an experienced lawyer in his early days, he would later start working on cases in his individual capacity. Today, his experience in the field of litigation remains unmatched and he is considered a specialist in matters concerning contracts.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Litigation practice and what to expect to expect in connection to it
    • Evolving and developing one’s preliminary knowledge in the legal industry
    • Judiciary and its various achievements through the years
    • Acing the Supreme Court Advocate-on-record examination
    • How students may plan their respective careers while still in college

    HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

    Hello everyone, this is Alladi Venkatanarayan. I am a retired Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court of India. I hail from a family with a prior legal background. My grandfather, Mr. Alladi Krishnaswamy Iyer was one of the 5 draftsman of our Indian Constitution. Post retirement, I still attempt to keep to the practice of continuously reading various legal journals and books so as to remain updated.

     

    WHAT ARE THE SKILLS REQUIRED TO BECOME A LITIGATING LAWYER ACCORDING TO YOU?

    Like most people would say, I would say the same, you need to have great communication and argumentative skills. However, I would emphasise also to students to concentrate on the various legal provisions that they should already know or are now learning thoroughly, such as provisions of the Evidence Act, Civil Procedure Code, Criminal Procedure Code and other such important Acts. Having a thorough hold over these subjects gives you the edge over other lawyers. It may even help you in getting an edge over an opposite counsel who has better communication skills than you.

     

    DO ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATIONS LIKE LLM, MBA, CA, CS, DIPLOMAS HELP IN GETTING THE JOB OR GETTING PROMOTED?

    I wouldn’t say no, but then, in all my years of experience, I have observed that additional qualifications only give you a higher platform to launch yourself on, but from there how much further you would go depends entirely on the the manner in which you make a mark in all the works that you undertake. However, if a person has interest in pursuing a particular subject area within the legal discourse then there is no harm; higher education always adds to your CV which in turn helps you get positioned in a more established practice.

     

    PLEASE ADVISE STUDENTS PLANNING A CAREER IN LITIGATION AS TO SOME OF THE DO’S AND DON’TS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE OBSERVED?

    As far as my experience goes, I can tell you that litigation isn’t going to be as easy as a corporate job. You will face a lot of bumps in the first stages of your career, but later on you would also be able to realise that all those bumps had been helping you to make yourself  better at the various stages of the litigation career i.e. pleading, drafting, etc. It doesn’t matter, all you need to do is just keep learning and keep improving your knowledge day by day and you will definitely establish yourself quite easily. Also, as I mentioned earlier, your basics should be quite strong with respect to the relevant Acts, Sections and Procedures.

     

    WHY SHOULD ONE CHOOSE LAW AS A CAREER OPTION?

    Personally, I chose law because I couldn’t get into any other stream (laughs). There was certainly always however a kind of pull towards that field right from my very early days in childhood. I always was intrigued by the various ongoing socio-political issues in those days and felt that I would excel at legal studies. For a person to choose law, there can be end number of reasons like good money, reputation, but the most important factor is your personal interest. If you are interested in law, then you should choose law as a career. You will never have the fear of job safety. Becoming a lawyer also gives you the great satisfaction of being able to  help people in dealing with their issues . Also, the gratitude that they show you is invaluable.

     

    HOW SHOULD ONE WORK IN ORDER TO CRACK THE S.C. ADVOCATE ON RECORD EXAMINATION?

    I would suggest to the people who are taking the test to first practice for some time in lower courts, so, while you are engaged in advocacy work, you learn a lot of things that you would eventually be tested upon. So, that helps a lot. Like my answer to many other previous questions, your basics should be strong with regard to the Civil procedure code, Evidence Act, etc.

     

    HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE A LAW STUDENT IF ONE HAS TO START PREPARING FOR A CAREER WHILE IN COLLEGE?

    Most students start freaking out after a year or so into their college life when they realise that they have no clarity with regards to what they are going to do after they complete their under-graduation. I would suggest them to just wait until they get interested in a particular subject, to wait until they complete classes of all major subjects of laws and then pursue the one that made  them think the most, the one that they felt intrigued by the most.

     

     img-20160822-wa0000 WITH RESPECT TO THE LAW SCHOOLS AT THE PRESENT TIME, DO YOU THINK THAT THEY ARE PREPARING THE STUDENTS ENOUGH FOR THE ACTUAL REAL LIFE PRACTICE IN COURTS?

    I think that they are. As far as I know , all the top league law schools are imparting the students with enough basic practical knowledge. The rest can always be learnt by experience in internships and working after the imparting of the degree in courts.

     

    SINCE INTERNSHIPS PLAY A VITAL ROLE IN SHAPING A STUDENT’S CAREER, WHICH PLACES WOULD YOU SAY ONE SHOULD IDEALLY INTERN IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY ADD WEIGHT TO THEIR CV?

    I think it depends a lot on which field of law they are interested in. As for students who wish to go into litigation, you must first start from the district court and then gradually move on to high court. This is because, at district court level , the various lawyers that you work under will have the time to explain those basics which you otherwise would not be aware of. Court room behaviour, the way you plead, can all be better learnt at district court.

     

    A LOT OF STUDENTS PREFER A CORPORATE JOB OVER LITIGATION; WHILE INTEREST MAY BE ONE OF THEIR REASONS, THE FEAR OF UNCERTAINTY IN ANY CAREER OTHERWISE IS ALSO A MAJOR ONE. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS?

    That is quite true, but this was the scenario when I had completed my graduation.  This is not scenario now; things have changed. There is no such kind of uncertainty any more really. You can always excel easily here as long as your basics are strong. I keep repeating this because, now-a –days most students have no good grip over these aspects and get affected badly due to this.

     

    SO, HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE WORKING IN A COURT FOR THE FIRST TIME? DID YOU GET THE FEELING OF BEING THE LONE ONE DROWNING IN THE SEA?

    I won’t say I felt as if I was lost in the sea because I had already been working under a lawyer before. So, that helped me in knowing the procedure of the courts  beforehand.  However, I was also very eager to take my chances with fate. The lawyer under whom I worked had after a long period entrusted me with a case, so I was rearing to have a go and prove my worth.

     

    ANY ACHIEVEMENTS THAT YOU FEEL OF THE JUDICIARY ARE UNDERRATED?

    Not many , I think many judgements of the judiciary are quite well appreciated in the legal field but only in the cases which have garnered media attention would the people really follow up and read the judgments in entirety. So, mostly it is the legal fraternity alone that remains alerted to all the legal developments, significant apparently or otherwise, and I don’t remember any judgement that could be termed as underrated.

     

    YOUR VIEWS ON THE LEGAL EDUCATION BEING IMPARTED AT SCHOOL LEVEL IN OUR COUNTRY?

    At urban level, I think it is being imparted quite properly and sufficiently. At rural level , it is not being done properly. At the rural levels, even basic education is not being imparted properly, so legal education is a far off thing .

     

    WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE/ADVICE TO OUR READERS WHO ARE ALL MOSTLY BUDDING LAWYERS?

    To all the readers, I hope and pray that you become the best at what you do and achieve great heights in your respective legal careers. Also, never get disheartened by failures in the beginning, keep going no matter what. Always stay aware of latest legal developments at national level as well as at international level. I would also urge you to keep the reputation of our profession at great heights.

  • Arush Sengupta, counsel based out of Delhi on college experience, CGPA and career on litigation

    Arush Sengupta, counsel based out of Delhi on college experience, CGPA and career on litigation

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    Arush Sengupta is an alumnus of Symbiosis Law School Pune, Symbiosis International University who graduated in the year 2012. Currently working under Mr. Anil Shrivastav, Advocate on Record at Supreme Court of India, he can be best described as a practicing counsel based out of Delhi.

    In this interview he talks about –

    • His college experience
    • The importance of CGPAs and co-curricular activities in shaping one’s career
    • His take on litigation
    • Preparing to shape one’s future career while still being in college.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Arush Sengupta, SLS Pune Batch of 2007-12, currently pursuing litigation in New Delhi.

    What is your work profile like?

    I work under Mr. Anil Shrivastav, Advocate on Record at the Supreme Court and have been exposed to a wide variety of matters under his guidance and supervision. My work profile involves assisting him with research, drafting and framing of arguments in matters at the Supreme Court, High Court of Delhi, the Central Administrative Tribunal and the National Green Tribunal, among others. The issues we deal with range from disputes arising out of rules governing government servants to border disputes between states, and a number of things in between.  While most of this is in the capacity of a junior, on occasion there are briefs which my senior lets me handle with a great degree of independence and autonomy which exponentially increases the rate of development of one’s skills. Additionally, I try to freelance and get my own matters and clientele, which is challenging work with uncertain outcomes but integral to the process of becoming an independent practitioner.  Out of the latter category, an interesting matter that I am currently engaged in arises out of discrepancies in export documentation under the Customs Act wherein a senior official has been implicated by the CBI and various proceedings connected with it are underway at diverse forums, ranging from the CBI Court to the Rajasthan High Court. Taking up this matter has resulted in fantastic learning, since I got familiar with several laws and procedures that I was not previously aware of.

    What would you say sets SLS, Pune apart from the other law schools in the country?

    I suppose strictly in terms of academics there would be not much to choose from between a set of similarly ranked institutions. However SLS did not provide accommodation within the old campus on SB Road, and consequently we started living independently in the city from the day we landed in Pune. In retrospect, this made a massive difference since we were exposed to the legal aspects of day to day living such as rent agreements, motor vehicle rules and so on. Every now and then one had to deal with the friendly neighbourhood policemen when music at house parties got too loud or when bikes on the way home from the said parties were too fast. If one was fond of such activities invariably the need for finding loopholes in attendance rules, exam rules, etc. would arise. While we were in college it was all part of the fun and games associated with student life out of one’s home town, but I realise now that these experiences equipped a lot of us with problem solving skills, the ability to think on our feet and  familiarized us with the patterns and systems of various laws, rules and regulations. All these soft skills gained inadvertently have helped me immensely and I daresay that had we been a part of a regular residential campus these experiences would have been hard to come by.

    How much do moots, research paper publications impact one’s employability or desirability?

    These activities are very helpful. Perhaps, the value addition that takes place from participating in a moot or writing a research paper is not immediately tangible; except for those who apply for higher studies after college. However, mooting helps in developing public speaking skills, framing logically consistent arguments and the ability to research on tricky topics and obscure points of law. Paper publications create awareness of issues which may not be covered in great depth in the mainstream curriculum. At the very least, mooting and paper publications would definitely help students who have participated in these activities approach real life cases and legal issues with confidence. Personally I draw from my mooting experiences when it comes to figuring out where to look for relevant material or applying arguments and analysis to different matters. Interacting with fellow students, teachers and legal professionals at inter-college moots and other similar events is a good way of getting to know people from the legal fraternity and my inter-personal skills improved as a result of these interactions.
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    Do additional qualifications like LLM, MBA, CA, CS, Diplomas help in getting the Job or getting promoted?

    Yes they do. All other things being equal, additional academic qualifications help to distinguish a resume’ from others to a great extent. The potential of an added degree or diploma is maximized if it largely compatible with the areas of interest and work experience on the resume’.

    What will be some challenges faced by freshers and how can they grow within the profession as a lawyer?

    On the basis of my limited experience, I would say that a big challenge is to cope with the sheer magnitude of the legal profession in terms of the number of areas of specialization that one can opt for, the levels and rungs of the court structure, the breadth of knowledge that is required (and should ideally be aspired to for its own sake also) as well as the seemingly innumerable channels of being recruited. It is difficult to make optimum career choices on being faced with such a wide range of options, especially since the information available about the various dimensions of the profession is at times skewed and prone to a high degree of subjectivity, especially for first generation lawyers. As is said often, there is no uniform and standardized method of achieving success as a lawyer. Common questions like whether one is better suited for law firms or litigation, what area of specialization to opt for, whether an MBA is preferable to an LLM in certain cases and so on; are best answered keeping in mind one’s unique strengths and weaknesses rather than on the basis of the conventional wisdom of the day.

     

    Tell us about your internship experiences. How did you choose your internships? How early did you apply? Are there any things that an applicant must keep in mind?

    I never had an overwhelming preference for any one dimension or branch of the legal profession, so the motive behind my internships was to explore as many different kinds of work environments as I could so as to be able to decide what suited me best. I did 5 internships, at Sanderson & Morgan-a prominent law firm in Kolkata, Price Waterhouse Cooper (Kolkata), under Advocate (Justice) Sandip Mehta at the Rajasthan High Court, at APJ-SLG Law Group- a firm specialising in WTO legislations and international trade in Delhi and finally under my current senior, Advocate Anil Shrivastav at the Supreme Court. I really enjoyed my stint with APJ since I am fascinated by international trade, the WTO and other aspects of international trade and economics and laws relating thereto. However I concluded that it might limit the development of my skills if I entered full time into such a niche branch of law at the very outset, especially without a relevant post grad degree; since the level of academic know how required seemed to be marginally greater than in other branches of the legal profession. That being said it is a field I would be interested in entering at some stage in my career, upon becoming qualified to do so. My final internship under Mr. Shrivastav was also very fruitful since he constantly encouraged me to think and form opinions about a case independently and even allowed me to draft and frame arguments for certain matters, which are responsibilities that seniors are usually hesitant to entrust interns or even associates with. After graduation, I also worked at the chambers of Sr Adv Tilak Bose in Kolkata and as an associate at the firm R.L. Gaggar & Co, which allowed me to gain an insight into the difference between practicing as a litigating lawyer and working at a law firm. Applicants should keep in mind that it is equally important to experiment and get exposed to different kinds of work environments and at the same type keep looking out for places which might have potential for longer term employment and strike a balance between the two.

    How important is a CGPA for recruiters to assess students? How did you maintain a balance between a good academic record at university and your extracurricular activities?

    The CGPA is actually a good indicator of a student’s performance as far as corporate recruiters are concerned since it provides an indication of the academic merit of a potential employee in relation to his entire peer group, as opposed to isolated grades or percentages. This is true especially in the phase immediately after college, when applicants for entry level posts have no substantial work experience to speak off. However it is by no means the only criterion used to select candidates and a good track record vis-a-vis moots, paper presentations, internships and so on also help strengthen one’s candidature for recruitment. Later on, prior work experience becomes a more important factor. Most litigating professionals on the other hand believe, with plenty of justification; that real learning begins after college so it is relatively less of a determining factor if one opts to work at the chambers of a senior after college. Coming to the second part of the question, while my grades are not abysmal, I could have probably balanced co-curricular activities and academics much better than I did. For everyone in law school who is as into moots, MUNs and debates as I was, there will sometimes be at least a slight trade off between grades and pursuance of co-curricular activities, unless you happen to be one of those rare geniuses who excel at absolutely everything. However I wouldn’t exchange the skills and experience I gained from taking part in these events for a few extra decimal points on the final mark sheet, and to the best of my knowledge the same would hold true for most people who pursued similar interests. Most of us who spent a lot of time debating or mooting and MUNing have been fairly well rewarded for the value addition that took place as a result.

    What has been the driving force behind choosing litigation over a well-paying corporate job?

    I enjoyed taking part in moot courts, debates and MUNs in college so in a way a career in litigation is a natural extension of that since it involves elements of public speaking, framing arguments and researching on various issues to a far greater extent than a corporate job. I also feel that the best way to utilise a five year undergrad law degree is to be working in the courts as a practicing advocate. Despite the initial phase of struggle with low pay that it usually involves, it maximises the potential for professional growth. However this opinion is purely personal and subjective and others may have equally or even more compelling reasons for opting for law firms, companies etc. Also, I haven’t ruled out an MBA later on. If I eventually do one, I will re-assess my options since at that stage I could look at corporate jobs beyond the somewhat limited spheres of a legal officer or an executive in a company secretarial role.

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    The alumni of any college are often regarded as one of the reasons behind the institute’s success. An active alumni base being of utmost importance, how closely does SLS work with the alumni and in what ways?

    We have a very active alumni network, with frequent reunions and alumni meets. Outside the formal channels too, we have a strong alumni network and I have found seniors and even batchmates and juniors to be extremely helpful and supportive. As far as working closely with SLS goes; from helping students during moots to assisting graduates who are new in the profession with career choices and decisions, the alumni plays an important part in ensuring that the transition from law school to the legal profession is smooth. The legal profession can be intimidating for newcomers and it is always comforting to have people one was at college with as your colleagues in the profession.

    Lastly, do you have any suggestions for students on how to deal and pick from the pandora’s box of legal specializations?

    In as much as choosing an area of specialisation goes I would say keep an open mind and keep learning about various spheres of law. It is important to go beyond the surface if one is to make an informed decision in this regard. For instance, when we first entered college, a lot of people were fascinated with IPR laws and wanted to explore career options in the field. However some of them later discovered that patent laws involved dealing with complicated industrial designs, chemical compounds and other things which require one to be comfortable with physics, chemistry and so on in addition to just the law. On the other hand, tax is a subject that many people find distasteful in college because it is assumed to be a lot of maths, but now I see a few of my friends as well as seniors in the profession who practice tax law and find it fascinating as well as lucrative.

    How would you advise a law student if one has to start on to preparing for a career while in college? Any parting words of wisdom to our readers?

    I will repeat that there is no fixed or ‘one-size fits all’ way in the legal profession, so there is a strong case to be made for assessing your strengths, weaknesses, areas of interest and then moulding your career accordingly. For example, sports law (often coupled with sports management), media law and laws relating to international relations and global governance are emerging fields and involve work in spheres that many people are inherently passionate about and even though they may not yet be conventional areas of practice, I see colleagues do really well at these because they were already interested in the subject matter. Some of my seniors have advised me to not limit myself in the initial stages and gain diversity of work experience, because only thus can one get a grasp of the full spectrum of opportunities that a career in law affords. This approach has worked for me, and I would recommend it especially to those who are inclined towards litigation.