Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Vibha Mane, Founder, Law Matters on experience in research work at JGLS and TISS and LL.M from Univ of Glasgow

    Vibha Mane, Founder, Law Matters on experience in research work at JGLS and TISS and LL.M from Univ of Glasgow

    Vibha Mane is a 2006 graduate of Symbiosis Law College, Pune and did a Diploma in Alternative Dispute Resolution from the Asian School of Cyber Law. Thereafter in 2008, she earned a Master’s Degree in International Commercial Law from the University of Glasgow, United Kingdom. She worked for a while as a Research Manager at Rainmaker and then as a Legal Assistant at IC Legal, Advocates and Solicitors. She also worked as a Senior Research Associate at Jindal Global Law School and as a Research Officer at TISS. At present, she is the Director at Law Matters, a company that she founded.

    In this interview she explains to us:

    • Suggestions on engaging in extra and co-curricular activities during law school and how to plan internships
    • Her various job experiences
    • Setting up and working at Law Matters
    • Studying at the University of Glasgow

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am the Founder & Director of Law Matters LLP based out of Mumbai. Some other terms that are often used to describe me are- a teacher, trainer, researcher, writer, lawyer who doesn’t practise and an entrepreneur by chance!

     

    Why by chance?

    In ten years of work experience, I tried litigation, law firms, and the state electricity commission. I also worked as a content creator, trainer, teacher and researcher. Of all these experiences, I could relate to academia as my core field of work. I had the opportunity to work with some big educational institutes like Jindal Global Law School and Tata Institute of Social Sciences. These work profiles allowed me to understand my career strengths – content, research and teaching/ training. I realised, my work has a broad spectrum and I could freelance. So, in 2014 Law Matters was emerging as an idea and honestly, it was my husband who encouraged me to think big and take the bold step of setting up Law Matters. I had my inhibitions about this whole ‘starting up on your own’ concept! But it was worth taking a chance.

    Together, we spent a year studying market trends in the legal field, met many principals and vice chancellors, gathered their feedback on lacunae in legal education and Law Matters was conceptualised by February 2015!

     

    Tell us more about Law Matters.

    We have four faculties- content, training, policy analysis and social projects. We create various courses for law schools and even management schools. We train law students on career options in law, career combinations with law, research methodology, effective communication and writing, soft skills, resume crafting, mock interviews and a lot more. We assist law schools with course content assessment, students’ calibre tests, organising seminars, getting their students job ready etc. Our team also undertakes policy analysis on various topics and we have some interesting social projects lined up. While the first two faculties generate income for us to sustain, the other two faculties are more out of interest for these causes. Law Matters believes that a healthy legal change equals a better social tomorrow and hence these initiatives.

     

    So how has it been for Law Matters? What challenges did you face?

    vibha-mane-3We are already a year old and are perceived as a finishing school for lawyers. In the first year we did more of training in Pune, Delhi and Satara but this year we are being approached a lot for content from Bangalore, Haryana and Delhi. I am very happy with our progress and particularly with this shift in demand. My biggest challenge has been to make law schools understand that we need to change our traditional methods of teaching law. A mere ‘Drafting, Pleading and Conveyancing’ (DPC) class doesn’t equip them with the skills they need to be ‘employment ready.’We need new and practical courses for law students.The standard courses that one takes through three or five year courses are redundant. Today’s students are always on the lookout for some diploma / certificate courses on upbeat topics. So why not provide them with those? Quality content is critical if we want them to stay up-to-date with changing trends and acquire skills for a good caree start.

     

    What would you like to share with us about your college time and the impact it had on your views of law?

    My views on law were very dramatic. My family has many lawyers and I was always in awe with their work and reputation.  As a child I gathered soon that lawyers, like police are quite important people! So studying law was natural for me. I had thought, I will get a law degree and then practice in courts, as is the family trend.

    Five years at Symbiosis Law School, Pune made me realise that being a lawyer was quite a task. What I loved most was the pattern of logic and reason that law holds. This makes it so interesting. The course was vast, yes! But thankfully, studying law didn’t seem tough.

     

    While there, what co-curricular or extra-curricular activities did you indulge in? How did you plan your internships? How did the same affect your overall take away from law school?

    I enjoyed legal-aid workshops and street plays on socio-legal issues. Honestly, I was not much involved in moot courts and elocutions at law school. This is one aspect that is often considered important on a fresher’s resume. Though, its absence never affected my career, it is one of those college things, I still regret not having done. I think, participating in such activities gives a boost to your confidence, it is through these activities that you can actually practice some research and presentation skills.  It also aids in improving your rapport among the social circle.

    About internships; no one ever recommended that I should intern with law firms or corporate houses. I toiled in district courts and the Bombay High Court learning procedural laws. During this time, I got a reality check- law is not as fancy as it seems in cinema! So, unfortunately, my internships lacked planning. This I often see as my career drawback. Learning from my own experience, I suggest that students should get a variety of internships at companies, law firms, NGOs and even start-ups, as they offer a hands-on learning base.

     

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    What motivated you to pursue an LL.M in Glasgow after graduation?

    I saw this coming!!! You see, my career wasn’t working the way I saw it – in courts. Post degree, I again tried to give litigation a chance in the Bombay High Court but I wasn’t enjoying it. The clueless, ignorant and vulnerable crowd at courts made it even less interesting. I felt I just can’t be practicing law. This self-realisation was scary and difficult to deal with. I obviously wanted more time to think about my options. The senior lawyer I was working with; Advocate Deepa Chavhan, suggested that I do an LLM and appear for QLTS (solicitors’ exams). At that time, I wasn’t sure what it means to be a solicitor but the prospects looked promising. Thus, I began applying for UK universities for Masters in Law. I was happy to get through to the University of Glasgow. Ranked in the top 1% of world universities, it is considered the university of world changers– Adam Smith, James Watt, seven Nobel Laureates and a rich heritage of over 560 years. Besides, I was fascinated with Scotland!

     

    How did the degree change your perspective on legal practice and development within the country?

    I am truly grateful for the exposure I got while doing a Masters in Law. Within the first few months, I realised I wasn’t equipped or trained to do systematic research, my writing lacked clarity and did not justify the research methodology I had used, and my critical analysis had to be a lot stronger and supportive of my arguments. This was the case with many Indian students studying law there. We weren’t taught these things. We weren’t groomed to be researchers and effective writers. I had to unlearn to write volumes about a topic, instead I struggled to put my point across crisply, in one or two lines. Funny but true!  I also realised that soft skills are a very crucial part of a lawyer’s personality and practice, and Indian law schools were missing the point completely. Our law schools have begun focusing on these issues only recently.

     

    Your work with Rainmaker stressed on content creation and streamlining legal research skills and techniques. What sort of a gap did you believe existed in the ability of trainees?

    Rainmaker offered great intellectual freedom. The team was committed to bring in a much needed change in the legal field- teaching, training and talent management.  This job helped me execute all that I had learnt during my Masters’ degree. I enjoyed creating content on varied legal topics and training was equally fascinating. Initially I was sceptical about training law students only a few years younger than me and law professionals quite older than me! But most of these trainees – young and old, acknowledged the fact that I knew things they wished to learn, this made my task easy. The biggest gap however, was of virtual intelligence! Being able to type a word document, or writing emails, or having LinkedIn accounts doesn’t mean we are virtually intelligent and technologically effective. There are a zillion little things to make a lawyer’s work look more professional, serious and authentic. So yes, there is still a huge scope for improvement there.

     

    At the prestigious Jindal Global Law School, what were the finer points of your research projects? What did the process of publishing your work from there entail?

    My year and a half at JGLS was loaded with research on topics like election laws, police reforms, prison industry, laws relating to women, inter-relations between law, society and cinema; right to religious freedom, torts, ragging and a lot more. Some work was published as articles, some as reports. During this time, I also worked as the Managing Editor of the Jindal Global Law Review, for the September 2010 issue. This responsibility proved to be a good opportunity to learn the intricate process of making a piece publishable. It really takes practice to go over the same piece again and again and to fix faults each time. And it is so good to see law students taking keen interest in publishing their work in various law journals. We as teachers and trainers, must encourage them to publish more.

     

    From your experience of teaching, what would you like to say about the newer generations of law students?

    There are quite a few things I like about this generation of law students- they are open to new ideas, they like mixing law with literature, poetry, documentaries, designs, humour and more. A curious class makes the teacher bring in something new to the desk, always! Plus, these students are aggressive about their career growth. They are sure of their choices. However, they dedicate all their five years towards building one particular resume that supports only their liking, not their ability! And see, this is also something that I have done myself. So, I know what it leads to.

    During our career counselling sessions, we often handle a lot of confusion. For instance, “Can I do CS even if I am weak in my accounts?” The question is how you see CS complimenting law and future prospects. Or something like, “I want to study for a Master’s degree but I am not sure whether to pursue an LLM or MBA.” Again, the answer to this question depends on why you think you need a Master’s degree in the first place and which areas do you want to work on.

    Another prominent trait of this generation is that these kids are setting very high standards for themselves at the very beginning of their career. This quite often leads to disappointment. They usually fail to do a reality check.

     

    Would you say their education varies from your own experience in college? If so, how?

    Oh yes, certainly! The exposure that law schools offer to their students has tremendously increased. Of course, even we had industry experts teach us. We had active placement cells too, but the law schools were few then. Now private universities are offering world class facilities, state of the art infrastructure, and global faculty! Ten years ago, many practicing lawyers acted as visiting faculty for several law schools. Only a few teachers were committed to teaching law the way it should be taught! No one taught us howto use LexisNexis, Hein Online, Westlaw, JSTOR etc. We learnt these things on job. These days, more or less all law school libraries offer free access to these databases.Besides, earlier; for moot courts, students prepared themselves. Now law schools put up a whole team of industry experts to make students ‘moot ready’ and that’s great, isn’t it?

     

    Law, Development, and Social Change was the core focus of your work with the Tata Institute of Social Sciences, (TISS) Mumbai. What would you like to tell us about the need and aspirations of the same?

    Every institute has its own unique agenda. Social commitment was an integral part of the proposed LLM course for TISS. So while creating content I had to make a course that evolved around poverty, religion, gender justice, vulnerable groups, alternate advocacy, economic law and development, legal reforms and court and case management. As a lawyer, knowledge of these subjects is indeed crucial but interest in these topics cannot be forced, you have to be passionate about it.

    An emotional quotient is important for lawyers but the levels may vary for everyone. When one has flourishing options to consider from property, real estate, maritime, space, sports, media, arbitration, etc. one tends to favour these topics over the social reform aspects of law. Having said that, I am, by no means, generalising the choices. We still have a good number of law students extremely keen on topics like refugee laws, immigration issues, torture, armed forces’ powers, animal rights, peace treaties, child rights, LGBT and so on.

     

    From an aspiring SuperLawyer to the Founder of Law Matters LLP, how does the specific skill development you envision set someone apart from the current crop?

    With Law Matters, I and my team are attempting to bring in the desired change in current legal educational environment through new content and innovative teaching techniques. The skills that we envision all lawyers to acquire are very crucial. It is his research and writing ability that helps a lawyer win his bread. Research allows you to get to the details, and writing teaches you to value the information. Most of these professionals and students alike, realise that we are assisting them with acquiring important skills that aren’t taught elsewhere. Basics like how to effectively draft a document, how to use search engines for accurate legal research, what search terms to use -when and where, how to break an issue to reach the most convincing argument, what other technological tools a lawyer can benefit from etc.are gaining popularity and acceptance.

     

    Finally, do you have any other advice for our readers, most of whom are college students?

    I would strongly recommend they take soft skills seriously. They should focus on developing a good resume from the very beginning. Reading for class and beyond class material is one good habit that they should try to inculcate. Also, a clean and responsible virtual presence adds a lot of credibility to your personality.  Lastly, your years at law school are equally important as your internships. So, don’t get so busy learning the tricks of the trade that you forget to learn the trade.

     

  • Srinath Sridevan, Founding Partner, HSB Partners, on leaving Magic Circle and starting up

    Srinath Sridevan, Founding Partner, HSB Partners, on leaving Magic Circle and starting up

    Srinath Sridevan is the founding Partner of HSB Partners, Advocates & Solicitors, Chennai. Srinath graduated with a Gold Medal in Law from Madras University in 1996 and then went on to pursue his masters from New York University in 1997. After graduation he got an offer from Allen and Overy, London and started working there. Later he moved back to India & started out with a new Law office, named – ‘HSB Partners’ at Chennai in the year 2004. He possesses an experience of over twenty years in the legal Industry with specialization in different aspects such as mining law, arbitration, corporate law etc.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Choosing law as a profession and his experience at New York University.
    • His formative years as a lawyer and his time at Allen and Overy, London.
    • Experience of establishing his own firm with his friends.
    • Criteria for selection of associates while recruiting.
    • HSB Partners and its rapid expansion.

     

    What incidents, influences or interests prompted you to think of law as your career and what other options would you have considered for your career?

    srinath-sridevan-1I am one of the fortunate people who came from a family of lawyers and therefore Law was something apparent to me since I was in school. I also had an interest in science and astronomy especially, and I suppose if I had not gone into law I would have gone into astronomy. I had studied BSc(Physics) before I got acceptance from Madras Law College.

     

    Tell us about your experience in Dr. Ambedkar Law University.

    See, that time it was Madras University it was not Dr. Ambedkar University. The college itself is a century old institution and therefore, the building is spectacular, the library has books which we only dream of. For example I have seen with my own eyes a two hundred year old copy of the Hedaya by Bailee, which was one of the most classical texts in Muslim law. But unfortunately the university suffered due to government laps and negligence. Therefore, classes were conducted in a haphazard fashion. In such a situation you are forced to learn for yourself and that’s what I did.

     

    Could you tell us about your experience at New York University? What all were the differences that you found the Indian form of legal education and the other form of legal education?

    Everything was different. I don’t even know where to start In the Indian form of teaching specifically at Madras Law College, the professor would come in, cover their portions and leave at the end of the hour. Some professors took a little bit more interest and tried to make the class more interesting, so it was only the frontbenchers who really gained anything, because we used to study out of our own interest, and also used to take notes in class. But at New York University, the scenario was completely different. The entire class was completely participative. The professor started a discussion and he guided the discussion. So, at the end of the hour the entire class would participate in the discussion. So as a result the entire portions were covered. And apart from that there would be seminars. So, in a semester you had one hour of discussion per week with a professor, where you would jointly research on some of the subjects. The amount of learning you got in these seminars was unbelievable. Of course, the quality of the professors at New York University was also very high. Some of the professors I learned from are known the world over. So, you really can’t compare the two. The experience at NYU was quite amazing.

     

    You received a scholarship for applying to New York University. What factors should be kept in mind while applying for LL.M in different foreign universities?

    First you have to look at what you actually want out of your LL.M. Students go overseas for masters degree for different reasons. Some of them are extremely focused and they see a masters degree as a stepping-stone for a further career progression. Some students do a masters degree simply because their friends are doing it. Some people do it because they want a year before the reality of life hits them. So, it depends on what you want out of it. Let’s take the first category, the people who are extremely focused. They need to think about what they want to do after their Masters. If one thinks of working at the UN or some international body, then you need to apply to those universities like George Washington, NYU, and Columbia etc., which have very strong relationships with international bodies. And if you do your Masters there, it is easier to get positions and fellowships from international bodies. So, that’s one. Similarly, if you are looking to work at a law firm in the US, then you should look at the universities in those states of the US, where you are permitted to take the Bar exam with just a masters degree. So, for example you choose a State like New York, or California, where you actually can consider taking a job after taking the Bar Exam in the US. In the UK, you have to look at the universities that give you best access to QLTT.

    The second and third categories of people are those who are going for an LL.M because they can, or because they want to discover themselves, or something like that. They need to choose a city that enables them to enjoy life there to the fullest. If funding is an issue then you need to choose the universities that are really rich and which are able to give large R.A.s and T.A.s or fellowships.

     

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    You have interned at Deacons, a foreign law firm and you have been an associate at Allen and Overy. How your experience there was and what differences did you find between foreign law firms and Indian law firms?

    I was very young when I interned in Deacons, so everything was new to me when I was there. So, on a couple of occasions, when I got to work directly with the partner that was like a high for me that lasted for the entire day. Therefore, since every experience was new, the internship itself was an eye-opener for me. What I got out of it I cannot say but it was a life changing experience for me. You learn how large these firms are. I was three years into the profession when I got an opportunity to work at Allen and Overy. So, I was more settled and I had clearer legal views. At Allen and Overy what interested me was my access to global transactions and global working practices. So, I learnt a lot there as well.

    Coming to the Indian law firms, in the last five years, they have got most of the good practices that these foreign law firms have. So, you have well established drafting and conveyancing techniques, clearer career paths for the Associates etc.

     

    The Government of India is planning to allow foreign law firms to enter into India. Do you think the Indian law firms will be confronting to fight with the tough competition foreign law firms entering into India?

    You, have to understand that you are asking this question to a law firm based in Chennai. I do not believe that law firms based outside of Delhi and Mumbai will be affected at all, because whoever is in Mumbai or Delhi will always need local legal support from a good law firm in Hyderabad, Bangalore or Madras. So I personally do not think that a law firm in Chennai will be affected at all.

    Further, even as per what I have read, foreign law firms will be permitted to enter only for the purpose of advising on foreign laws aspects of transactions.

     

    It is a general assumption that the fresher graduates have to struggle a lot during the initial years. What was your experience?

    Look, you use the word struggle as something bad. From my first year, I spent all my free time reading Bare Acts and judgments whether I understood them or not. The first few months, especially the first three months, were quite boring and it was really difficult to sustain the interest. But at some point of time the interest kicked in. Once the interest comes in, it’s a matter of pleasure to keep learning. Even now when I am bored, I pick up a law book and read. It’s not a “struggle”. I find it very pleasurable.

     

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    What made you to venturing into a law firm than setting up an independent practice?

    All the three partners at HSB are all the same age. We all hail from families of lawyers. After we finished our bachelor’s degrees, we all went to the US for our Masters’ degrees. I went to NYU, and my partners went to Northwestern. After we finished our respective degrees, my two partners worked in Chicago and New York respectively, and I went to work in London.

    Over the next few years we kept in touch through e-mail. We were always talking about returning to the motherland and being with our parents.

    By 2002, one of my partners, Harishankar, and I started a firm and we commenced working together.

    By 2004, we spoke to Bhaskar and informally we joined together.

    And on first of April, 2005 we formally united as HSB partners.

     

    How was your journey during the initial days of HSB? Why do you think that HSB has won the best law firms award in the year 2012 in corporate and commercial laws?

    These awards do not matter much. You can get one every year from someone or the other. I personally don’t give much importance to these awards.

    The initial years were very exciting because it’s great to be working with your friends. There was a lot of sharing of knowledge. You know every day me Hari, Bhaskar and I used to discuss our respective cases. So, that was extremely exciting.

    We also got to learn transition from being the sole proprietors of our family firms to actually being one single firm like HSB.

     

    While hiring lawyers, what kind of skills you look for in their CV?

    srinath-sridevan-3Speaking for myself, I look for three things.

    The first being the university where the candidate has studied; whether it is a recognized one or not. I look for academic scores.

    Then I look for the places that this person has worked or interned at and the kind of work the candidate has done.

    Most importantly I look at the extracurricular and co-curricular activities because that is the real test of character and if I see something interesting there then I usually invite the person for an interview.

     

    What do you expect from a first year associate or an intern?

    I usually take interns from their second year. I ask them minor questions to see if the candidate shows interest. If a candidate shows initiative, then I give more responsibility.

    So from my perspective, I give as much work to a person as that person wants. Each person depending on how much interest they show can grow.

     

    What do you find admirable in present generation of lawyers compared to that of your generation?

    They are lot more prepared, prepared in the sense, bold and willing to state their opinions. For example: when I was in my fourth year of law school I don’t think I could have expressed my views as boldly and candidly as many of the interns do nowadays.

     

    What is your thought about the traditional ideas of specialization in single core areas of law as opposed to the contemporary broader approach with wider field with multiple specialties?

    I am biased because I myself have several areas of interest. So obviously I will say it’s better to have a broader field of knowledge. I don’t think you can be an effective lawyer if you know only one very narrow vertical.

    You can be an effective lawyer only if you know the general principles of all laws and you have a very wide-ranging interest in other fields of life as well.

     

    Do ever want to be a senior counsel or judge?

    Senior counsel: Yes, that is something I would like. When, I don’t know. The rules in Madras High court for designation of lawyers by senior counsel have now been changed. Now, it’s only by invitation. So, that may arise if and when am invited.

    Judge, probably not.

     

    What kind of internship would you recommend for a law student to opt for, to start building versatility and a wide range of law that you are well versed with today?

    I would recommend a litigation internship with lawyers or a firm that has a very substantial practice, that too when a court is in session. This is what will expose an intern to the widest possible range of laws in a shortest possible time. Unfortunately, most of the applications for internship are for the months of May and December when the court is not in session. So, those interns don’t get very much out of their internships. So to get the broadest ranging experience, I would recommend interning under a very busy lawyer or a very busy firm when the court is in session.

     

    What would be your advice to the budding lawyers?

    Nothing but Enjoy yourself.

     

  • Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore in 1998 and has been the co-founder of Alternative Law Forum. He is based out of Bangalore, and is widely known across the legal fraternity for his campaigns on issues of public concern, especially on conflicts of Intellectual Property and medical accessibility.

    Soon after his graduation he received the Chevening Scholarship and did a Masters in Law and Development from the University of Warwick. He holds a Ph.D in Film Studies  from Jawaharlal Nehru University and a Post-graduate Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore. Over the course of his career he has immersed himself in human right issues, media law and legal writing. He is currently a visiting faculty fellow at Yale.
    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His time at NLSIU and Warwick and his educational qualifications
    • His various experiences as a Fullbright Scholar, Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, and the Hughes Visiting Scholar.
    • Alternative Law Forum
    • His work with iCommons, the Sarai Institute and Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.
    • How he combined media and law
    • His experience as a member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008
    • His views on human rights advocacy

     

    What could be a short introduction of yourself?

    Hi, my name is Lawrence Liang and I am a legal researcher and writer based in Bangalore. I was one of the co-founders of the Alternative Law Forum, a collective of lawyers working on public interest issues and I have been involved with ALF for around 15 years. I left ALF in 2015 and I am currently a visiting faculty fellow  at Yale.

     

    You received an English Honours in English Literature from St. Joseph’s College, Bangalore before graduating with a law degree from NLSIU. What prompted the choice to study law?

    An early fascination with law – possibly prompted by popular culture – drew me towards law, but more than a clear idea of wanting to do law, I was clear that I had no inclination towards the sciences and at that point of time pursuing my first love – literature – didn’t seem like a feasible career option. Also it was the time that the National law school had just been set up and we started encountering a number of the NLS students in the quizzing and debating circuit and they seemed like some of the brightest people we had met. On inquiring further we figured that the law school was an an incredible experiment to revamp legal education and appeared to be the most exciting place that one could be in. My English Honours was actually alongside my time at law school. This was at St. Josephs’ where the department used to offer English Honors programs open to all, and in many ways doing this alongside the law shaped many of my subsequent interests in inter disciplinary studies, and in law and literature. While we we were studying subjects like copyright in law school, we were also being exposed to critical theory at Josephs, and one could start seeing the connections between ideas of authorship which were so central to copyright but being differently interrogated by thinkers like Michel Foucault and Roland Barthes. It convinced me of the need to have a wider approach to the law than just legal formalism.

     

    What work did your masters in Law and Development involve in Warwick?

    The Law in development program was attractive to those of us interested in a critical perspective mainly because Prof. Upendra Baxi taught there, and his scholarship had been very important to us. Warwick has a wonderful history of a engagement with law from a global south perspective and while there, my main learning was to develop a sharp ideological understanding of law and political economy especially in the way that it impacted questions of justice.

     

    As a recipient of the British Chevening Scholarship, what opportunities did that open up for you? Was there a process for application for the scholarship?

    The Chevening scholarship was literally the only way I could have afforded doing a Masters in the UK and we were lucky at that time that they had two scholarships for people interested in law and development. There was an application and interview process and the interview was a bit of a disaster, so I was rather lucky that I actually managed to get the scholarship. My time at Warwick helped shape an interest in activist lawyering and I started thinking about the need to set up a space after returning. I also took the opportunity to do courses that allowed me to dive into the continental philosophical tradition which significantly shaped my intellectual and political outlook.

     

    You were the Best Outgoing Student at Warwick! What activities did you engage in there besides academics?

    It is amazing that I got any work done there actually considering it was also a year of being passionately in love. But since cross border romances are best conducted under the shadows of culture I managed to watch many art house films and plays which I did not get to see in India, and the summer was one long cricket match rudely interrupted with thesis and course work breaks.

     

    You have a Ph.D from the Jawaharlal Nehru University Film Studies Dept. and a PG Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for study of Culture and Society as well. How did you come to cultural studies? Did it have an impact on your approach to law?

    Strangely enough while I turned to cultural studies and film studies from a boredom with law, they also enabled me to return to the law with renewed interest, but with a slightly modified perspective. My interest in cultural theory allowed me to read the law not merely from within its internal logic of rules and norms, but through a symbolic register where one could read law as culture. In recent times it is the discipline of anthropology which has been most exciting for me and the work of legal anthropologists like Pratiksha Baxi, Annelise Riles, Perveez Mody in domains as varied as rape law, international finance and the Special Marriages Act have been very exciting and inspiring for anyone interested in the workings of the law both in theory and practice.

     

    As a Fullbright Visiting Scholar in Columbia University at the Anthropology Department, what did your work entail?

    My time at Columebia offered me a chance to finish work on my doctoral thesis, and being at the anthropology department was to be a part of a fantastic intellectual community which allowed me to interact with many people whose work I have admired over the years. Brian Larkin who has worked on an ethnography of media piracy is a kindred spirit and he was my host while I was there. In some ways anthropology has emerged as the intellectual refuge for many disciplines and the number of law graduates who have becomes anthropologists is a good indication of what a fertile field it is especially in a country with as complex a legal system as India where numerous legal traditions and temporalities coexist and collide with each other.

     

    Now you are the Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, at Yale Univ. for the academic year 2016-17. What do you focus your teaching on?

    I am teaching two courses, one is a cinema course where I look at the social life of cinema in India moving beyond the cinematic text to focus on spatial and technological histories, fan clubs, labour histories etc. The second course I am teaching is on the Trial and its public effects in India where I look at key trials that captured the public imagination in India in the colonial and postcolonial context. I move between cases like the Tilak trial, the INA trials to the Nanavati case and the Arushi trial as a way of looking at the public life of law in India, and the way that trial becomes a critical event that recalibrates ideas of politics and public morality. It also becomes a story about the intersection between law and media since these very public trials become a theatre of justice constantly mediated by different technologies of mass media and legal trials become an effective site for the staging of dramaturgies of justice.

     

    As the Hughes Visiting Scholar, Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan University in 2014, were there any interesting conclusions to your work then, that you could share?

    Michigan was a brief stint in which I got to test out some of the ideas that I had been working on at the time especially on ideas of forensic imagination and the rise of forensics in legal process. I was interested at that time in the idea of the doctored image, narco analysis etc and my friend Joyojeet Pal who teaches at Michigan is also interested in information politics so there was a superb synergy. I was there just after the Polar Vortex which meant that the extreme cold ensured that you just lock yourself up and do your work without any distraction. Ann Arbor represents the best and worst that a life in ideas could represent- the Ivory tower you are confined in because it is just too snowy to step outside but where you keep warm in good intellectual company.

     

    You were a Co-founder of ALF. How did the idea develop to start that?

    lawrence-liang-2ALF was both the result of many years of conversations with friends as well as strangers who were as excited about the possibility of the experiment. Most of us had done some time with human rights lawyers or organizations, and while we were inspired by the legacy of critical lawyering India, we also felt the lack of a space that brought together litigation, activism and academic research. ALF was born out of a belief that there was a need to bring together these in a way that broke the barrier between theory and practice, and to a certain extent we were successful even if this was not without its attendant difficulties. The temporal nature of litigation and activism is always about the immediate and the urgent while research has a longer durée, and sometimes these can be in conflict with each other. But at ALF I was lucky to be in the company of extremely passionate and committed people, and I learnt that one’s political stances are not just learnt from the outside world but equally in these small experiments at collective living and working. To believe in an abstract idea of the right to equality is one thing, to actualize it in your practice is much more difficult, but in trying to do so you learn more about the abstract value as well.

     

    What work does ALF focus on? Is there a unique work culture that volunteers or employees are expected to adhere to or anything in particular that is expected from them?

    ALF works in a variety of areas from access to the criminal justice system, the politics of intellectual property, sexuality, labour etc. From the start we were committed to the idea of a non hierarchical workspace which was organized on the basis of collective responsibility- again much easier in principle than in practice- but I think an informal ethos and a respect for each other’s work is what attracted people towards ALF. Given the relatively modest salaries that we were offering, what made ALF attractive for many people was that it offered a vibrant intellectual and political environment, a collegial space underwritten by friendship and the chance to do work which you could see had some impact at least  on the lives of people.

     

    What impact has working at ALF had on your life outlook?

    This one will probably need more space than I have, but one simple one is a recognition that while the law is often a leaky umbrella, often it is the only one we have. And the real challenge of an ideological critique of the law is not to disavow it, but to deploy as effectively as possible using its own logic to work for those whom it normally works against. Apart from the professional side, it has shown me via the words of Neil Gaiman that inside everyone are strange and surprising universes and to work together is to be invited to universes that one would not normally be a part of.

     

    Tell us a bit about the Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.

    Pad.ma is an online archive of video and documentary footage. It seeks to create a visual archive of densely annotated clips and Indiancine.ma tries to do the same for Indian films. These are collaborations with a fantastic group in Berlin, Pirate Cinema and Camp in Mumbai. They arise from a simultaneous interest in visual culture as well as in the radical potential of open access.

     

    You have shown remarkable commitment to a variety of causes over the years. What are the major causes you espouse? Did you always know what issues you wanted to work on or did that happen with time?

    While one always has a vague sense of values that one is committed to, the commitment to specific issues often arises from a particular context. For instance while I was generally interested in media laws, it was through the process of working with Vikalp (A group of documentary film makers who came together to fight censorship) that you are then forced to dive into and in some sense try and master a particular field. Similarly with issues of access to knowledge, the specific context of the DU photocopy case both confirms the importance of a politics of knowledge even as it refines the political stance you had through the technical prism of law. To be simultaneously committed to things you believe in even as you remain open to contingent forces that change or alter your politics is both exhilarating and inspiring. There is a lovely saying that revolutions should be born out of joy not sorrow, and I think we often derive out vitality from the energy of those we see around us, who in the face of extreme injustice are still defiantly hopeful for a better world.

     

    Tell us how you have managed to combine media and law?

    We live in a mediatized world where it is difficult to imagine any aspect of our lives which are not touched by media. From cinema to the internet, media occupies and shapes our consciousness, so it no coincidence that the world of law becomes crucially enmeshed with that of media. In a narrow sense that would mean the regulation of media, but in a broader sense it also means the transformation of law itself where law also becomes mediatized. The emergence of sting operations, the prevalence of trial by media are crucially media effects even as they are legal events, and to think of the contemporary is to think of media. Ravi Sundaram whose work has been very influential for me has a book which theorizes India ‘after media’ and in a sense he posits that everything changes after media and as a legal scholar you are bound to account for what that means in the legal world.

     

    What is you role in iCommons? What do you strive to achieve there?

    The Creative commons movement was a very important moment that showed us the possibility of what an alternative imaginary to the closed world of copyright could be. It expressed a philosophy of sharing and the creative potential of it contrasted with the diminishing of the public domain by strong IP regimes. It was also beset by its own limitations being enshrined within the idea of liberal legality, and for someone coming from India, where you could see the democratizing potential of illicit practices such as piracy, my own role was to contextualize what something like the CC movement meant in the global south, but also to nuance the debate with an understanding of the social and cultural worlds of knowledge sharing beyond the law.

     

    What work have you done in collaboration with Sarai?

    Sarai was one of the most exciting and important media and cultural spaces that emerged in early 2000’s which opened up all kinds of possibilities in the public discourse around art, media and urban space. It was set up jointly by the Raqs media collective and faculty members of CSDS and they supported the most cutting edge work in theory and practice for many years. The range of fellowships they offered, the legacy of the work they supported (from artists to graphic novelists) has been phenomenal. I started collaborating with Sarai in 2002, and it was a combination of boldness and generosity on their part which also helped ALF in its formative years. They saw a bunch of passionate and smart lawyers who wanted to try something new and supported us (intellectually and financially) helping us set our foundations. In 2005 we organized a global conference on intellectual property called Contested Commons and Trespassing Publics which I think made a significant impact on the global discourse on IP. We also co organized an event called World Information City that brought together artists and theorists thinking about idea and politics knowledge era as they played out in the lives of cities. My conversations with Jeebesh Bagchi, Ravi Sundaram, Ravi Vasudevan, Shuddhabrata Sengupta and others opened up ways of thinking from the diverse worlds of art, cinema and technology. Sarai, I think, allowed for us to see the various expressive forms that thought can take, and the traditional academic form of scholarship was both something they showed the limits of even by pushing the boundaries of how scholarship could be creatively and energetically expanded.

     

    You have several publications to your credit! How do you choose when to write about what? Do you think research and publishing is very important for a law student?

    Sometimes you choose to write because you are following an intuition, a curiosity and an intellectual itch. Other times a specific areas chooses you by virtue of its immediacy. At any rate for academics to write is to think and even though the act of writing is often a painful process every once in a while in the midst of writing you realize you are expressing thoughts you didn’t even know you had. So yes writing is crucial for law students, and I am grateful for the endless projects that we had to do as law school. I don’t think law school really teaches you law, what it does teach you is how to think about the law, how to forage for research material and how to put together an argument. What I do think is important is to fight the very real possibilities of writing becoming a painful drudgery (often the case with academic writing) and to experiment with different forms which retain the joyfulness of writing. For me writing in a range of forums from art journals, newspapers and academic spaces has been the key to maintaining my sanity since the joy of writing can easily be assassinated by footnotes. But more than a writer I think of myself as a reader, and writing for me is often is an excuse to make sense of what I am reading and to have imaginary conversations.

     

    Please tell us about your experience as a Member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008?

    This was a considerably difficult period in Sri Lanka, the civil war was at its peak and one of the immediate casualties was free speech. Journalists and editors were being targeted – often killed by the state as well as the LTTE. It was humbling to learn of the incredibly difficult circumstances under which journalists were doing their work and as members of the drafting committee we were privy to a remarkable set of testimonies. It reminded me of Foucault’s idea of parhessia- an idea that preceded the idea of free speech and referred to fearless speech- reminding us of the high stakes involved in speaking truth to power, and the small role that lawyers can play in nurturing a safe home of fearless speech. The experience really shaped my understanding of free speech laws in India and to appreciate the relatively good jurisprudence that exists on free speech in India. All the more crucial in these days when sedition charges are thrown about like cheap change and when shrill blood hungry media anchors become the greatest dangers to free speech.

     

    What changes do you hope to see in human rights advocacy in India over the next decade?

    With the mushrooming of law schools all over India, I hope that we in addition to producing lawyers for law firms, we also produce a generation of lawyers who continue a critical tradition. The law students I meet today are remarkably bright- certainly smarter than we were- they are born digital and command an enviable ease with all kinds of online research skills, and what would be fantastic is to have more lawyers who are able to engage with human rights issues not just in a generic sense of political empathy, but to deploy their legal skills in understanding and critiquing mainstream areas of law. What the human rights movement needs are more lawyers who know corporate law, insurance, taxation etc. In other words we need lawyers who understand the belly of the beast but also understand that the beast preys upon those who are most vulnerable and to be an effective human rights lawyer means internalizing Part 3 of the constitution, but also understanding how corporate governance can affect the same Part 3.

     

  • Bhagavath Krishnan, Associate, HSB Partners, on work experience in litigation at HSB Partners

    Bhagavath Krishnan, Associate, HSB Partners, on work experience in litigation at HSB Partners

    Bhagavath Krishnan is a 2013 graduate of KIIT Law School. During the course of his education, he interned with several reputed firms including Wadia Ghandy & Co., AZB Partners, Kocchar and Co., Vichar Partners, Iyer and Thomas, Blue Cross and APSHRC. Immediately after graduation he joined the litigation team at HSB Partners as an associate.

    In this Interview Mr. Bhagavath talks to us about:

    • His time at law school
    • How he chose his various internships
    • How to climb the ranks in a litigation firm
    • Working as an associate of a litigation team

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to the legal fraternity?

    A small time, happy-go-lucky Vakil with big dreams.

     

    Why did you decide to choose law as a career? Is there anyone in your family who motivated you to opt law?

    My father was a lawyer. He doesn’t practice now, though.

    So, when I was a kid, I would hang out at his office after school and would act as if I am the senior there. My morning chore was to check the cause list for him and underline wherever his name appeared. I would take his books and mark as if I am correcting an exam paper and sometimes I would just sleep on his lap when he is in the middle of a meeting.

    Naturally, when I had the option to choose a career, I wanted to do what my dad did for a living. He didn’t like my choice of profession though. But I want to be better than my father in his own game. That is why I chose law.

     

    How was your life at KIIT School of Law? Did you find that your law school education prepared you for your current life?

    Oh yes! Life at KIIT was the best I could ask for. I was part of a very lucky batch which was privy to some fantastic professors. I still remember how Prof. Ajjappa taught us how to write a citation! Constitution classes by Mr. Mustafa with his Urdu couplets (with translations from my friends) are unforgettable. I believe when you are in classes where such stalwarts are teaching, your tool-kit is in place.

    But I think more than the classes, the people I met changed the way I think. There were students from all over the country. From the interactions [academic – 10% or otherwise – 120% (brilliant math!)] with them, I understood that a lawyer’s best tool is to gauge what the other person wants.

     

    How did you choose your internships? Are there any such specific things that one should keep in mind while applying?

    bhagavath-krishnan-2My boss has always told me that one should always have an end-game. My idea was very simple. I always knew I would be practicing in Chennai. I had to muscle all the contacts I could. So I made sure I did most of my internships in Chennai.

    I was very lucky to meet so many lawyers (including my current boss) who guided me. I am grateful to all those who gave me work when I stood near their cabin/cubicle asking “Sir/ Madam, is there anything I may work on?”.

     

    How would you advice a law student if one has to start on to preparing for a career while in college?

    To be frank, I am not the best person to advice someone. I think everyone has their own way of working their career out. There is no straight jacket formula. The fun part in this profession is that you can chart your own path. So, one heads-up (not advice!) I would like to give to law students is to be sincere at work. I still churn out wrong drafts, but I am sincere at correcting it and getting it right the second time.

     

    Could you tell us a bit about your internship experiences?

    I think I enjoyed my Internships more than the actual classes. All my internships were very interesting. I think I was very lucky that I interned with lawyers who were very patient with me. They taught me how to research, how to draft. Most importantly, I learnt how Madras High Court works.

    Like I said earlier, internships are very important and I made the most of all of them.

     

    You had interned in HSB Partners, Chennai in second year of law school. From an intern to associate at HSB Partners, how did it happen? What are the important attributes for a fresher to work on?

    I manage to do most of the litigation work because I love doing it. I just happen to work alongside a great team of lawyers who are good colleagues.

    My HSB experience cannot be explained in words. My boss, Mr. Srinath Sridevan is someone I admire and look up to. Although there have been many instances where I have wandered off, he has helped me focus. The opportunities that he gave me changed my life.

    HSB is a place where you can learn a lot. So as a fresher, you can make the most of it. My colleague advised me in my first year not to restrict myself to one field. He told me that as a fresher, one can work on anything one wants to. Luckily, HSB provided me with all the opportunities I asked for.

     

    Being head of the litigation team, how do you manage the Court schedules and office work? What all methods do you adopt to deal with the clients?

    I don’t think it is difficult to manage court schedules and office work. I agree that at first, you will be overwhelmed by the situation and the days’ work. But one will get used to it after sometime.

    With respect to clients, I understand that most of them are anxious and nervous when they come with the brief. So, I found that they appreciate it if you tell them the plan of action and how it is going to be carried out. There is no point fighting with them – after all they came to you because they have a problem. I try not to add myself as a problem.

     

    With these hectic schedule at work, coming to office at the earliest and leaving the office last, how do you balance your work and life?

    I appreciate that you have gone through the office register.

    Also, the work I am doing now is just half as much as my seniors (at HSB and others) did in their initial years. I just hope I get to do more work. Everything else will fall in place. So, I just give my best.

     

    Are you planning to pursue your higher studies sooner or later?

    No. I don’t think I can take a break from going to Court. I am used to the Ten-Thirty Tension. So, that’s not my cup of tea for now.

     

    What would be your parting advice to our readers?

    Heads up. Life as a lawyer is fun. It is best experienced when you are not scared of failure. So go ahead and give it your best.

  • Ramanuj Gopalan, General Counsel, SAIF Partners on being one of the youngest GC in India and work experience

    Ramanuj Gopalan, General Counsel, SAIF Partners on being one of the youngest GC in India and work experience

    Ramanuj Gopalan graduated in the year 2007 from the West Bengal National University of Juridical Sciences. He got a Pre-Placement offer from Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co, Delhi, and was part of the M&A and Corporate Advisory Teams. He was made Principal Associate in 2013, after working there for six years. During his career, he has also published articles relating to FDI in major publications. Currently, he is one of the youngest General Counsels in India, at SAIF Partners. SAIF Partners is a venture and growth capital fund invested in helping Asia’s exceptional companies grow from concept to IPO.

    In this interview he discusses:

    • His time at AMSS and his perception of the field
    • The reasons behind his success at AMSS
    • His shift from AMSS to SAIF, India
    • The scope and nature of his responsibilities as General Counsel

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a commercial lawyer presently working as general counsel with SAIF in India. In terms of background, I was born and brought up in Kolkata. I did my schooling in Don Bosco School, Park Circus and did my law from WBNUJS, Kolkata. I received a pre-placement offer from Amarchand, Delhi and joined its M&A and General Corporate Advisory team in 2007, worked there for 8 years and then joined my current position.

     

    What motivated you to pursue this field? Are there any lawyers in your family?

    I am a completely first generation lawyer. No one in my family is a lawyer.

    My introduction to law was mainly from American novels, movies and serials which both my sister and I used to like. Lawyers such as Atticus Finch and the ones in Grisham’s novels fascinated me. I was a science student in school, and while engineering and medicine were popular choices in my region, I was not too interested to pursue these as a career. In fact I had taken the form for JEE but did not give the exam. The plan to study law however, was not fixed till my last year of school. This was when WBNUJS had just opened in Kolkata under Dr. Madhava Menon. While I was not very sure of my chances as I had not prepared very hard or taken any coaching for the exams, I was very happy when I got through as it gave me an opportunity to stay in the city and be with my family.

     

    Tell us about your experience at NUJS, Kolkata.

    College and staying in a hostel were life changing experiences for me. There was good exposure and guidance in core academic and co-curricular areas such as publications, mooting etc. The experience of staying independently away from home and interacting with people from diverse backgrounds and cultures in college and hostel was also invaluable.

    We had a very vibrant student body at least in our first few years when Dr. Menon was there as Vice Chancellor and Professor Shiju as warden. In the last couple of years, because of the pressure of placement and recruitments this tapered off a bit.

    Since I was from Kolkata, I used to stay in the hostel and go home during weekends or holidays, so in that sense I had the best of both worlds. Of course it was easier for me compared to students from other cities who may have found it difficult initially away from home. Our college is located very centrally and it is very easy to go around the city. Apart from academics I was part of the Recruitment and Placement Committees and also the Constitutional Law Society.

     

    What advice do you have for law students on maintaining a good academic profile?

    I find students today to be a lot more focussed and clear about their career goals so not sure I am the best person to be giving advice on this! In terms of academics I was never the type to study a lot. However, what I found helpful was to listen attentively in class and take notes as that helped in absorbing what the teachers said and was also helpful to study before the exams.

     

    You have published many articles in the field of business laws. What advice do you have to give students on how to go about writing publishable articles?

    ramanuj-gopalan-2There are several publications today that are looking for good articles on topical issues. For business related articles the key is the topic selection. It must be relevant and preferably bring some new perspective on the issue. The other important area is that it has to be comprehensive but still concise. The difference with pure academic articles is that the article must be presented in a reader friendly format and not become too technical or legalistic as your audience would lose interest.

     

    How did you decide on this particular field of expertise? Did your internships help in shaping your current career trajectory?

    Yes, to an extent. The other big factor was career certainty. In my view at least till a certain level a law firm (and a corporate job) is certainly more merit based and democratic than private practise. While private practise also interests me, I feel it is very difficult to find your feet in litigation practise initially and there is very less financial security. So for someone from a middle class background and without any family connections in law like me, a law firm or corporate job was ideal. Corporate law also has its own nuances and constantly challenges you so it is not difficult to remain motivated.

     

    Tell us about your time at AMSS, Delhi. Did your perception of the industry change in the eight years you spent with them?

    I had a very good time in Amarchand and worked with Mr. Shardul Shroff and some great team members during my time there. I was fortunate to have worked on a lot of interesting and headline deals which gave me great exposure to different areas of law and sectors. One advantage with working in a firm like Amarchand is that you work on larger and more complex deals involving issues from different areas of law, including other practise groups such as IP, Competition, Tax etc. The corporate team, by project managing the deal, has a 360 degree view of the issues involved. Another big advantage is of course the network effect in working with leading lawyers in the country. Systems, infrastructure, training and knowledge management within the firm was much organised. It helps in building a strong base.

    On the second question, yes of course. A large part of what we do develops with practise and experience. When we are new graduates, while there is enthusiasm and energy there still exists a big learning gap which only gets overcome through experience. With increasing liberalisation of the economy the legal field as well as perception of lawyers has also changed for the better over the years.

     

    What are the secrets to your outstanding performance while you were at AMSS, Delhi? What must one keep in mind before joining such an organisation, especially immediately after graduating?

    Well I guess the first question is subjective but I performed to the best of my abilities and the firm was kind enough to recognise and appreciate my efforts. I feel what is critical in practising commercial law is not just spotting issues but to also find solutions to those issues. One must be keenly aware of what the business requirements are. In general terms, like in any field, there is a lot of hard work and commitment required. Since law firms are in the service industry there must be absolute dedication to the client who is paying a premium for your service. Be eager to learn and committed and have good attitude is what I would advise young lawyers before joining.

     

    What falls within your scope of responsibility as a General Counsel?

    All legal matters essentially from beginning to end and during the life of the investments. These include fund structuring, investments and exits in companies, litigation and disputes, review of ongoing legal issues, advising portfolio companies, advising directors, sectoral review, coordinating with and managing external counsel and advisors.

     

    ramanuj-gopalan-3

    What prompted your shift to from handling headliner deals at AMSS, Delhi to becoming General Counsel at SAIF India? How different is the nature of work and the challenges you face?

    While I had very good growth in Amarchand, SAIF presented a fantastic opportunity so it was in a sense moving because of the role. Working as a General Counsel for a fund like SAIF gives me an exposure which would have been difficult in Amarchand at the position I was in.

    The nature of work is very interesting. Handling transactions not just from start to finish but also during the life of companies gives a very unique perspective. It is in a sense putting theory into practise. The people both within my organisation as well as outside I deal with are very dynamic since that is the nature of the fund and the investments. I have to work alongside the deal team and business teams on the transaction, keeping in mind what is required for the transaction/business. Except for the requirement of business development, my work is as challenging (if not more) as was in Amarchand.

    In terms of challenges nothing specific per se but of course the level of support that one has in a large firm both in terms of peer group support, legal infrastructure and databases, domain knowledge is not something that can be found in-house.

     

    You were with AMSS, Delhi for Eight years. Was it difficult to handle a change after such a long time? What helped make the transition smoother?

    Moving out was really difficult as in a sense you are moving from the really close relationships you have built in the firm over time. Then I had to shift from Delhi to Gurgaon so there was the whole shifting process and adjustment process which my wife and I had to handle. In terms of work there was some learning curve to adjust to the documents, thinking and existing advisor relationships of SAIF. The SAIF team was very helpful so the shift was smooth in that sense.

     

    Given that you are one of the youngest General Counsels in India, is age a factor, either positive or negative?

    In the venture capital space I would say age is a definite positive as the thinking is very dynamic and hands on and the overall team is also young. It is also easier to learn and adjust at a younger age. In more traditional sectors as well as litigation practise being older would probably be a positive.

     

    What do recruiters look for in the current crop of law graduates?

    I would say good attitude and commitment are very important. The law school one belongs to, CGPA and co-curricular activities also matter, especially early on and help in getting interview/PPO opportunities. One must be confident and articulate with good communication skills.

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    Be good in what you are and you will definitely get results. A lot of opportunities are there for lawyers and the legal market in India is also maturing. Keep abreast of technology as I feel legal practise both on the corporate side as well as litigation will increasingly embrace technology in the next few years.

  • Sandhya Gorthi, Founder, Sanctum, on being an entrepreneur and pursuing diverse careers

    Sandhya Gorthi, Founder, Sanctum, on being an entrepreneur and pursuing diverse careers

    Sandhya Gorthi is an alumna of NLSIU, Bangalore. She graduated in 1998 and over the course of her career has worked as a radio jockey, a freelance writer,  a soft skills trainer, a Manager of Operations, had a stint with India’s first online art auction website and at present runs Sanctum, a start-up she founded. In addition to her creative arts proclivities, she is a rescue diver, a dancer and has studied Vedanta philosophy for thirteen years now.

    In this interview she talks to us about:

    • Sanctum – the inspiration behind it and its driving principles.
    • The various roles she played in different organizations and with different kinds of work.
    • Career versatility, work ethic and travelling extensively on the job.

     

    What was the inspiration behind Sanctum? What work do you primarily focus on now?

    I had retail and operations experience and found I was very interested in furniture. I found a gap in the market for well priced natural wood furniture and home accessories with a vintage and international feel, and I started Sanctum. It’s my full time job and I oversee all aspects of the business although I do have a talented and empowered team.

     

    sandhya-gorthi-2

    What are the driving principles you believe anyone should have to start their own company?

    I’d have to say Number 1 is boundless passion. I don’t feel the need to take a ‘break’ from SANCTUM ever. That doesn’t mean it isn’t important for me to spend time away from the daily routine. It’s vital to get inspired, to keep learning, to meet new people, share ideas…

    Next would be access to some resources – entrepreneurship is risky and all companies have
    ups and downs, so planning for resources and income flow is important. Having said that, I feel having access to endless resources works negatively – then there is no hunger. Often, the most creative ideas are born of necessity and frugal resources. Contacts in the industry, industry knowledge, a mentor, are also valuable resources.

     

    Where do you see Sanctum headed?

    My vision has always been to create a model that is scalable to create a national and international footprint. We are country with a rich heritage of design, natural resources and talented craftsmen, surely we can produce a unique and international brand with this mix!

     

    What plans do you envision for yourself career-wise?

    Career wise I think I’ve come full circle. The skills I’ve picked up in law school and in my various professions have all come together for me in entrepreneurship. I hope to carry these skills forward in this line and eventually in public service as well. I owe a lot.

     

    What was your role in The Shop?

    I partnered with the family that owned the brand and was responsible for bringing the brand to Mumbai – from location search, refreshing the old branding, to curation and entire set up – interiors, compliances, staffing.

     

    Tell us how you got into soft skills training and your time as the trainer at Prana Worldwide. What would you consider most important in your lessons on soft skills?

    I found, in many of my jobs where I lead teams, that I would spend time training them on professional conduct, email etiquette, customer service and other aspects of corporate culture. That, plus my background in theatre, really helped shape the modules that I developed at Prana. I also worked with modules that had been already created and it was fun working across different professions – pharma, investment banking, hospitality…

    Prana happened right after I had my two kids (now aged 13 and 11) – so it was part time work – but I did find it a little hard to clock a full day or three full days in a row while my two highly accident prone boys unleashed themselves onto the world!

    sandhya-gorthi-3Soft skills are invaluable in creating the right impression, presenting a professional front and help in being diplomatic yet firm in multiple scenarios, whether we’re dealing with customers, vendors, government officials, industry peers or investors.

    I think the most important aspect for me has been customer feedback on how amazing the team at SANCTUM is, and how warm and welcome they feel in the store. That sets us apart for sure and has done more for the brand than any other brand building exercise we have undertaken.

     

    How did you get engaged as a freelance writer for the Hindustan Times? How do you choose what issues to write on?

    Actually I wrote for several publications. I’ve always loved writing in school and college and learning how to research issues in NLS made it so much easier to present well rounded articles. I’ve done a writing course, been an editor for LexSite.com, Easybuymusic.com and Planetsaffron.com/Saffronart.com. As a freelancer I’ve written on subjects that are important or of interest to me – health, spirituality (I’ve been studying Vedanta philosophy for 13 years) parenting, pets (I contributed regularly to Delhi based pet magazine), art, child sexual abuse and its legal framework, travel…

    Once I got into retail there was so much writing to do…newsletters, blog posts, product descriptions,, website, design stories, press releases, business plans…I also regularly give content relating to home decoration and home care to journalists that they use in their articles. Now, even with a larger team, I always chip in with the writing whenever I can.

     

    What prompted your stint as a radio jockey? What is the greatest experience you take away from your time as an RJ on Radio Mirchi?

    Like most people I love music, but also music trivia and performing. I first became a professional radio jockey on AIR FM which was the only FM station in the city. I moonlighted as the evening host while I was working at LexSite.com – it was wonderful to connect to so many people, to play music I loved, and to access AIR’s treasure trove of old rock and pop LPs.

    My second stint came with the entry of private FM into the city in 1999. I auditioned with thousands and got selected as evening drive time host of Radio Mirchi, a hectic job that I enjoyed thoroughly even through a tiring pregnancy and after the channel switched to an all Hindi format.

    I also produced other shows, trained tech and talent, and did short stints on other time slots in addition to my 4-5 hours of drive time.

    For me, the greatest lesson was how we can connect with people of different backgrounds despite cultural and language barriers. I didn’t grow up in a typical Indian home nor did I speak very good Hindi at the time, but homemakers, taxi drivers even some Bollywood celebrities would call in and chat with me because they felt I was a friend. This sounds trite but it was really humbling and a valuable life lesson for me that I practice to date.

     

     You also worked as a Manager of Operations with Planetsaffron. What work did you focus on?

    Planetsaffron was a wonderful experience too. At the time there were three sites – Saffronart, of course, Saffronsoul – which was about holistic healing and Saffronstyle – which was high end fashion. I came on board as head of content and technology – at Saffronart we worked on creating the first online art auction module, for Saffronsoul I was helping two Ayurvedic doctors write a book, and for Saffronstyle we had Mehr Jessia and Tina Tahiliani curating style shoots. It was a lot of work but fun!

    Soon however, I moved more into operations – overseeing the teams, heading the team that took exhibitions of Indian contemporary art all over the world. It was challenging but there was so much learning, so much that we were doing new, so stimulating!

     

    You were able to travel extensively for the work you did with Planetsaffron. What do you think are the perks and drawbacks of having a job that requires a lot of travelling and how should one deal with it?

    I did. We had exhibitions in New York, LA (9/11 happened during that trip), Hong Kong, London was to follow…the perks are many – you get to see places you might otherwise not have had the opportunity to visit, you get to work with people from different cultures, handle international clients, learn the ins and outs of the logistics, customs, negotiating cross border contracts and generally see how business is done internationally.

    The flip side was that I was just never home. I often worked late into the night or all night, I’d rush home with an hour to spare before my flight and the travel itself was tiring because you’d just hit the ground running when you got back. I don’t think I balanced my work and personal life very well those days. If I had to do it over I would probably have prioritised the latter more. I’ve learnt that no one is indispensible in an organization.

    I travel a lot for work now too, but I do it more sensibly…most of the time (old habits).

     

    How did you get a job with India’s first online art auction website? How transformative was that experience in your life.

    I was introduced to Dinesh and Minal Vazirani and my profile matched what they were looking for at the time. My legal background helped me research and create the broad framework for the auction – in terms of rules and functionality. My background in writing, and editing meant that I could work with art school graduates to write artist profiles and artwork descriptions. And my technology background meant that I could explain concepts and functionality to the tech team and understand what the technology of the time could or could not do. My theatre and radio background helped me interact with art patrons I suppose (wink)!

    It was a huge learning, I made a lot of mistakes, but it also showed me what a good team leader ought to be and how organizations should be run.

     

    What was your first job? How has that experience impacted you work ethic thereafter?

    My first job was actually in the theatre and media. I did plays, voice overs for ads in 6 languages, hosted a few shows on TV and sang in the musical Evita. Not just in the media, but from changing jobs so many times, I began to realize the things I valued above all else…integrity, a strong vision that everyone was aligned towards, respect for all team members, a culture of learning and growing, and the importance of a space that allowed the sharing of ideas and for lots of laughter. When I started my own venture I was determined, and I think have been quite successful in, implementing these values.

     

    How did your tryst with creative arts begin?

    I was a born performer! I used to rally the kids in the neighbourhood to perform plays, dances, songs, dress up…no matter how unwilling they were. I wrote, danced, elocuted, sang, acted and even painted in school. Even today I make sure I’m learning something creative always and my kids and I sing, dance and have these weird (and scary) dress up sessions together.

     

    What would you say is your greatest strength and how would you say that has served you in terms of career versatility.

    I think the ability to keep an open mind – I believe that ageing is only rigidity of the mind – I have friends who are in their 80s and in their teens and of different ethnicities and backgrounds. I feel I learn from all of them and we share ideas and laughter freely. I tell myself the minute I start wanting things MY way or a particular way and no other, that’s growing old, that’s the beginning of a slow death.

    There are also some values you know are universal and you have to stand up for them and fight for them for yourself and for others who are not able to speak up for themselves. I have made myself quite unpopular on several occasions because of this but I’ve never had a moment’s regret.

     

    Did you always plan on trying out so many creative outlets or was each change a spontaneous change?

    Good God no! I’m a middle class south Indian girl! But I think you have to be true to yourself. Find your calling. Some of us have more than one…in the end it all comes together. The changes weren’t impulsive. I’ve responded to a strong calling, and have had compelling reasons to change. Maybe things come your way if you’re sending out the correct signals.

     

    As for trying new things, what would be your suggestions for our readers?

    JUST DO IT! There’s no point telling yourself you’ll try it when the time is right, or once you’ve reached a particular place. If you have a goal or passion, do the research, and jump right in. You have to be prepared to put in the sweat and it won’t always be fun. But keep your goal in sight always and work towards it.

    But I would add a rider that it’s important to first analyse your personality carefully. See if this is really a calling or if it just seems attractive because it’s different from what you’re currently doing. Know if you have the nerves and acumen for the dream you want to fulfil. Some things can always be fun dreams or hobbies too… but you’ll never know for sure if you never even get your feet wet.

  • Shriya Jain, Associate, Wadia Ghandy & Co., Ahmedabad on work experience in real estate at a top tier law firm

    Shriya Jain, Associate, Wadia Ghandy & Co., Ahmedabad on work experience in real estate at a top tier law firm

    Shriya Jain, a 2013 graduate of Institute of Law, Nirma University, Ahmedabad is currently working as an Associate at Wadia Ghandy & Co. She works in their Property Team, in the real estate department and handles the drafting of transactional documents relating to real estate and also makes title certificates. In this interview she tells us about:

    • The passion for indulging in extra/co-curricular activities;
    • The importance of drafting as a skill;
    • The interesting path of choosing to do different things;
    • The importance of breaking barriers.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a part of the 2013 graduating batch of Institute of Law, Nirma University, Ahmedabad. I started my practice with Wadia Ghandy & Co., Ahmedabad in their Property Team and have recently completed three years with the Firm. Coming from a non-legal background, my journey till here has been very interesting and surely a roller coaster ride.

     

    What would you like to share with our readers about your experience at ILNU, Ahmedabad?

    In one word – Enlightening! We were the second batch of the Institute; hence, we as an Institute were exploring and learning a lot of new arenas of a Law School, like moot courts, debates, seminars, MUNs and such. These were very raw and new for us. Particularly, because of this reason, the initial batches had an added advantage. Further, the best thing about ILNU is that it focuses on various modes of teaching law, starting from classroom lectures to seminars, guest lectures from practicing lawyers, innumerable extra-curricular and co-curricular activities, mandatory internship for 9 semesters, setting up a legal aid clinic and giving students firsthand experience at an early stage to gain these experiences. I have tried my level best to absorb something from each of the above activities.

     

    What were your areas of interest in the law?

    This question has been rightly put up as what ‘were’ my areas of interests in law, as my interest has taken a drastic turn… by chance. During my days in law school, I was really interested in Corporate Law and wanted to pursue it further. At the time of campus placements, I was offered a position in the property team of Wadia Ghandy & Co. and I thought I should give it a shot! It would have been something new for me and I would have learnt about a field I had not much heard of. And to be honest, I have never looked back since then.

     

    During your time at ILNU, what, if any, extra-curricular or co-curricular activities did you take up? How did the same affect your learning experience and prepare you for the legal sector?

    ILNU has given me various opportunities to explore and enhance my potential. I am someone who cannot rely only on academics. My focus has always been on overall development. Since my school days, I was clear on one aspect – I would participate in extra-curricular activities. It builds your personality, enhances your creative side, gives you an opportunity to meet several people and learn from them, develops a competitive spirit and gives you an edge. I carried this pattern of my life to college as well, ensuring from the first semester itself that I am involved in the extra-curricular and co-curricular activities of college, and I did this till my tenth semester there. I was very inclined towards debating during my school days and, in college, I was introduced to Parliamentary Debates and the concept of adjudication.

    shriya-jain-2In my first semester I was given an opportunity to represent the Institute as an adjudicator at the NLS Debate hosted by NLSIU, Bengaluru. After this experience, I don’t remember any year of my college where I didn’t participate in a debate competition and have since adjudicated Semi Finals and Final Rounds of various National Level Parliamentary Debate Competitions. In my final year, I was made the Chairperson of the Debating Committee of ILNU and along with my wonderful team, we organized the 1st ILNU National Parliamentary Debate Competition. Oh what an experience that was!

    Apart from this I was a part of the team which qualified for the Asian Regional Rounds of the Manfred Lachs Space Law Moot Court Competition, 2012; presented a paper on the topic of “Emergence of Refugees in Non-International Armed Conflict : Its Implications on the Host State and the Role of UN” at the International Law Students Association Annual Summer Conference, 2010 at Istanbul, Turkey, a topic which is co-incidentally very relevant today. Participating in these activities (you may choose whichever activity holds your interest, but make sure you are doing something apart from sitting in classrooms) gave me an opportunity to interact with law students from all over the world and it has been a wonderful experience throughout.

    I was also involved in cultural activities like fashion shows organized by ILNU, where I was spotted by a creative agency and starred in videos pertaining to ‘Awakening of Youth’ by the Government of Gujarat and in another video for ‘Save the Girl Child’ campaign.

     

    Having been working with one of the best law firms in India, what can you tell our readers about what law firms look for in potential candidates?

    Your basics of law should be clear. As a firm or any recruiter for that matter, we understand that a fresher may not have an advanced knowledge of law and may not be able to respond correctly to every question. Therefore, we would want to see how clear your basics are. Further, being curious and having the zeal to learn at every step, good drafting skills etc. are looked forward to.

     

    What led you to gravitate towards Real Estate practice?

    My earlier response to areas of interests covers how I started with real estate practice. The scope of work in this field is not known to many, including how the laws are different in each State. It is not taught in law schools and is very different from other areas of practice. Also, there are few women lawyers in this field. In my 3 years of practice, apart from the lawyers in my team, I would have interacted with not more than 3 female lawyers who are practicing in real estate. And because of this fact, clients (from real estate) are not used to having female lawyers. In our field, our clients are mostly builders, farmers etc. where female presence is generally very less. Therefore – and I don’t blame them – they are a little shocked to see a female lawyer involved in the matter. My initial 10 minutes of every client interaction is invested in building confidence of the clients. It is good to break barriers!

     

    How important do you consider drafting as a skill, especially for those who are interested in transactional practice?

    Your document is the end product of your knowledge. Hence, it is extremely important to have good drafting skills to portray the understanding of clients and your knowledge in the best possible way. As a transactional lawyer, 75% of your time is invested in drafting agreements. I would say, if you want to be a transactional lawyer, focus on enhancing your drafting skills. It is all about how you bring out the understanding on paper. Do not confuse it with using fancy language and Latin terms. Be simple, precise and coherent.

     

    What would you like to share with our readers about the general rigorous and demanding nature of a corporate sector job?

    If you enjoy what you are doing, you will not find it to be rigorous or time consuming. Yes, you have to put in hard work and lot of hours, but that is an investment at the end of the day.

     

    Finally, what parting message would you like to give to our readers?

    I shall put this in a precise manner:

    1. Read a lot. From course books to articles, essays, fiction, non-fiction, history etc. As a lawyer, you should not restrict yourself to course books or specific laws. Enhance your knowledge, there is no limit. Like my Father says, “College is there to only provide you guidance, it is your responsibility to learn and shape your career”. Another advice which I have taken from ILNU is from one of our lecturers, Mr. Divya Tyagi, “You speak what you read”. Hence, read quality books;
    2. Participate in Co-curricular/Extra-Curricular activities;
    3. Work with a lawyer after college hours. This will give you an experience as to how the law is applied in reality;
    4. Socialize with your peers from other law schools, lawyers and lecturers. The knowledge and exposure that you will get from interacting with them is invaluable and shall be with you for life; and
    5. Enjoy your time at law school. It is a wonderful experience!

     

     

  • Shayak Chakraborty, Advocate on Record, Calcutta High Court on starting up with an independent litigation practice right after graduation

    Shayak Chakraborty, Advocate on Record, Calcutta High Court on starting up with an independent litigation practice right after graduation

    Shayak Chakraborty is an alumnus of Gujarat National Law University who graduated in 2013. During his school and college days he was very active in debating and started the Debating League at GNLU. He worked at the Calcutta Sessions Court under the aegis of the Chief Public Prosecutor before assuming a practice at the Calcutta High Court as an Advocate-on-Record. He is a certified mediator and focuses his litigation practice on civil, commercial and corporate, criminal and constitutional law. At present he has an independent practice. In this interview he talks to us about:

    • The required skills and the importance of mentors in litigation
    • The scope of ADR in the Indian judicial system
    • His experience working in the Calcutta Sessions and Calcutta High Court.

     

    What would be a brief introduction of yourself?

    I graduated from Gujarat National Law University in the year 2013, and I am currently practicing law in the High Court of Judicature at Calcutta. I used to practice criminal law in the lower courts here in Kolkata before making the shift to the High Court last year.

     

    Were there any activities you participated in that honed your skills as a litigator? How are they relevant now?

    I’d say the activity that helped me the most in litigation was debating. I used to be an active debater during my school days in La Martiniere for Boys, and continued that during my college days, where I founded the GNLU Debating Society in my 2nd year. Debating was a passion for me, although I wasn’t the best debater in my school (which had a fiercely competitive intra-school debating league), I was always an ace in extempore debates, where the skill of thinking on your feet and out of the box is all-important. Looking back, this is what honed my skills the most, because while every lawyer should be able research the law and frame the argument well, how one responds to arguments in Court with little preparation and dodges tough questions from the judge is what separates a good lawyer from the rest. So definitely debating was the most important activity which helped me in becoming a litigator, as it not only improved my speaking skills immensely (I was a very shy kid, and would find it difficult to talk to people before I started debating) but also prepared me to frame convincing arguments quickly.

     

    Was there anyone who particularly influenced you while deciding on litigation?

    Growing up, two of my father’s close friends encouraged me to take up law –  the late Justice Barin Ghosh, who retired as Chief Justice of Uttarakhand High Court before passing away last year, and senior solicitor Debasis Law. Right from a young age, they told me I had what it takes to be a good lawyer, and thus, right from my school days I always wanted to be a litigating lawyer, having never even heard of transactional practice before I started preparing for law entrance exams. I was very sure that Court practice is what I wanted to do, and so I never wavered in my decision to enter litigation despite being a first generation lawyer.

     

     

    Being a certified mediator and an active litigator, what do you feel is the scope of ADR in the judicial system?

    shayak-chakraborty-1As I have been trained in mediation, I am hopeful about its prospects in India. With the tremendous backlog of cases in our courts and the lack of adequate number of judges for a population like ours, more and more people are unwilling to resort to litigation to resolve their disputes. The ever-growing number of arbitrations in our country bear witness to this effect, as today a standard commercial contract will inevitably contain an arbitration clause. However, the real problem comes from land disputes, succession disputes and family matters since those aren’t usually covered by an arbitration agreement. In such cases, mediation can be a very effective way to bring about a resolution without resorting to the court process, and it is increasingly being recognized as such.

     

    How did you prepare for the bar in a span of a few months?

    The Bar Exam is easy enough to pass, provided you have actually done a reasonable job of studying for your LL.B. degree. It is kind of a refresher exam for your law syllabus, and if you have indeed studied decently for your law exams in college, the Bar Exam won’t give you much trouble.

     

    What was it like assisting the Chief Public Prosecutor in the Sessions Court?

    Mr. Tamal Kanti Mukherjee, Chief Public Prosecutor of City Sessions Court Kolkata, is a tremendously successful lawyer and a gem of a human being. When I started working in his office, I had no idea about Court practice and had no clue as to how to go about things. While I had done internships during college days, the month or so that one spends on an internship barely gives you even a glimpse as to what Court practice is all about.

    Tamal sir encouraged me a great deal, and helped me gain confidence in my abilities as a lawyer. He would encourage me to read every brief and prep every case for him, and had blind faith in my abilities even when I had no faith in them! With his encouragement and guidance, I learned a great deal about how trial works, and how criminal cases progress. Working for the Chief PP also meant that I interacted with police officers a great deal, and I learned a lot from my interactions with them too. However, I am tremendously grateful to Tamal sir for the constant encouragement he gave me when I was a nervous rookie lawyer. Such was the confidence he gave me that I was appearing on my own merely four months after enrollment!

    shayak-chakraborty-2I was briefed to argue for a de-facto complainant in a massive fraud case, where the value of the fraud was more than Rs 20 crore, and I was to argue against bail of two persons arrested on the very day I was briefed! I was tremendously nervous and excited at the same time, and when I walked into the Magistrate’s courtroom, I saw six lawyers appearing for the two accused! The lawyers argued strongly for bail, the Police Prosecutor opposed the bail in the normal fashion, when I asked for permission to make submissions for the de-facto complainant,  the defence lawyers started shouting that I had no right to make submissions when the Prosecutor was there. Now, Tamal sir never liked to raise his voice, but would never be afraid of shouting down an opponent who was being too aggressive. I shouted back at the defence that I was seeking permission of the Court and I didn’t need their permission. Possibly impressed by my confidence, the Magistrate gave me two minutes to make my argument. I summed up our position on the matter, to which the Magistrate nodded, and sent the accused to police custody for 14 days (the maximum possible time), something completely unexpected for me, as some other juniors had told me not to expect more than 7-8 days of police custody! It was at that moment I knew I could make it as a litigating lawyer if I continued to work hard and persisted with Court practice.

     

    What was the transition like, moving from work in a Session Court to the High Court? Did you prepare yourself for this change in any way?

    I always wanted to practice at Calcutta High Court, but I could not manage to find a senior’s chamber to join when I returned from GNLU. Now,  my father knew Tamal sir quite well, and when he mentioned to him that I was very confused as to where to start my career and thus had been doing nothing since returning from Gujarat, Tamal sir suggested that I join him for a few days to start with, to get an idea of the lower courts before joining a senior in the High Court.

    After working in the Chief Public Prosecutor’s office for a while, I wasn’t any closer to figuring out a chamber to join in the High Court, so I decided to carry on working in the City Sessions Court, where I was already used to the surroundings and already knew most of the people.

    However, my dream of going to the High Court never changed, and on several occasions I found myself wishing I could do more than just practice criminal law in the lower courts. I was granted a sudden opportunity when a corporate client of mine had a case dismissed in the trial court. They called me in to advise them about their options, and I recommended that they file a revision petition in the High Court. They asked me whether I would take care of the matter in the High Court for them, and I readily agreed! Mind you, I had absolutely zero experience in the High Court at the time, but I was confident enough that I’d be able to figure it out. I managed to find a clerk in the High Court who files matters in the Appellate Side, and took his help in filing that matter. When the case finally appeared in the cause list, I got a major thrill seeing my name alongside it as Advocate for the petitioner. I argued the matter, and it was admitted, and since then I’ve been going to the High Court!

     

    What are the challenges of being an advocate in the Calcutta High Court? Why did you choose an independent practice as a litigator and not work in a law firm?

    It wasn’t much of a choice, it simply worked out that way! If my client hadn’t entrusted me with the matter, I would probably still be in the Sessions Court looking out for another opportunity to make the shift. I didn’t consider working in a law firm because that entails having absolutely no freedom when it comes to the kind of matters you take up and the manner in which you go about a case, both of which are very important to me. However, it is tremendously tough to work on your own, especially when it comes to getting your own cases. I’ve been blessed by the fact that there are lawyers who have supported me and encouraged me a great deal…I definitely wouldn’t have made it so far without them.

     

    What are the main types of cases you focus on? How did you choose an area of specialty?

    I actually do all kinds of cases nowadays. While I started out as a criminal lawyer, I was never satisfied doing only criminal cases, although they are very interesting. I started working on civil and commercial matters, including suits, arbitrations and company matters as I went on in the High Court. Soon enough, there were some writ matters that came my way and I loved handling those cases as Constitutional Law has always been my favourite subject. So, I don’t really have a speciality as I have been doing extremely varied matters. I have even done transactional work such as drafting contracts. While there are many lawyers who specialize in their areas of practice, there are several others who do all sorts of matters.

     

    What is the most challenging case you have ever faced? Is there any case that changed your perspective on the judicial system?

    The most challenging case I have ever worked on is a suit matter currently pending in the High Court, in which I’m the juniormost counsel and I’m assisting reputed Senior Advocates of Calcutta High Court. It’s a Testamentary Suit involving immovable property worth several crores, and even though my role has been negligible in this matter, the sheer complexity of the facts and the stakes involved make me thank my stars that I’ve had the opportunity of working on it. It is also challenging because of the way system works. To even ensure the numerous old and dusty Court records of this suit (filed in 1994!) are available for reference during the trial is a massive task in itself!

    As for a case that changed my perspective on the judicial system, it is an arbitration matter (challenging the award of an arbitrator and a related petition seeking interim measures) long-pending in the Court. Here,  again, I am assisting heavyweight Senior Advocates, and this matter has been kept long pending purely because the State Government, which was the losing side in the arbitration, had adopted delaying tactics in order to avoid paying the massive award passed in the arbitration. I learned through this case how slow the wheels of justice can turn in our system, and how frustrating it can be for a litigant. Even though the arbitration had been resorted to in order to avoid the extremely slow progress of Court, the way our justice system works has ensured that the matter continues to drag on without any sight of coming to an end!

     

    You are an Advocate-on-Record for matters on the original side at the Calcutta High Court. How did that come about?

    As per the Original Side Rules of the Calcutta High Court, you have to register yourself as an Advocate-on-record with the Registrar of the Original Side in order to file matters and accept vakalatnama from clients in matters on the Original Side. There are certain conditions you have to fulfill in order to register yourself, including having an office within the boundaries set out in Chapter One of the Rules. I never knew about this till I started working at the High Court. A couple of years ago, I had met a senior solicitor, Mr Sarajit Mitra, who had encouraged me a great deal and had taken my advice on criminal matters on a few occasions. I drop in to his office whenever I’m free, as he is filled with excellent stories about the practice of law, and I have learned a great deal about the profession from him. Sarajit sir has also placed great confidence in me and the biggest cases I’ve worked on in the High Court have been the ones in which he has briefed me as junior counsel. When I found out about the fact that not every lawyer can file matters on the Original Side, I asked Mr Mitra about it. Sarajit sir took out an old leather bound volume of the Original Side Rules, and told me to read them. I found that I fulfilled the criteria for registering, and asked what should I do to register myself. Sarajit sir again pointed me to the Rules, and told me to apply in the manner given in the Rules. I did so, and since then, I’ve learned a great deal about the functions and responsibilities of an Advocate-on-record from Mr. Sarajit Mitra, which has helped me to work as an effective Advocate-on-record.

     

    Are there any suggestions you would like to give our readers especially aspiring litigators?

    Always observe your seniors carefully and learn whatever you can from them. Conduct yourself well, and people will help you out wherever they can. It can be very depressing and frustrating to be a junior lawyer, but you have to faith in yourself and your abilities, and you must have the patience to persist with the profession. Focus on the work, and always seek to learn as much as you can.

  • Aditya Swarup, Assistant Professor, Jindal Global Law School on being a Rhodes Scholar, and pursuing BCL & M.Phil from Oxford

    Aditya Swarup, Assistant Professor, Jindal Global Law School on being a Rhodes Scholar, and pursuing BCL & M.Phil from Oxford

    Aditya Swarup graduated in law from the  National Academy of Legal Studies and Research University in 2010. He was also awarded the Rhodes’ Scholarship the same year, after which, he obtained his Bachelor of Civil Laws degree from the University of Oxford in 2011. He then went on to do his Masters’ degree in Philosophy from University of Oxford in 2012. During his time at Oxford, he focused on various courses such as Restitution, Civil Procedure and Comparative Public Law.

    After practicing law for a few years, he took a break to focus on his research and teaching. He is currently working as an Assistant Professor at the prestigious Jindal Global Law School and is serving as the Assistant Director of the International Institute of Higher Education and Capacity Building.

    In this interview, Aditya talks about: –

    • What made him pursue a legal career;
    • His interests and areas of focus;
    • His journey towards becoming a Rhodes’ Scholar;
    • His views on the Indian Judicial System; and
    • What a student must have, aside from academics in order to have a successful legal career.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am Aditya Swarup, currently an Associate Professor at Jindal Global Law School. Before joining academia, I used to work as an associate at a solicitor’s firm in Mumbai, practising primarily in the Bombay High Court and the Supreme Court.

    What led you to enter the legal profession?

    During my 12th standard, I cleared the UPSC-NDA exam and SSB interview and was slated to join National Defence Academy, Khadakvasla with the prospect of joining the Indian Airforce thereafter. However, after a lot of thinking, I decided not to join the Airforce. At the same time, given that I had secured only 59.8% in my class 12 exams, I was denied admission by most of the good colleges. Law happened to be one of the disciplines where your 12th standard marks didn’t matter and all one had to do was to clear an entrance exam. Accordingly, I took a year off and prepared for the law entrance exams for various law colleges (we didn’t have CLAT then) and got through NALSAR.

     

    Would you like to share with the readers any particular instances during your time spent at NALSAR, which helped shape your views about the law?

    aditya-swarup-3In or around November, 2008, I had the good fortune of interning with Mr. Tehmtan Andhyarujina, former Solicitor General of India. At the time, he was arguing Selvi v. State, a case concerning the constitutionality of narco analysis before the Supreme Court of India. He had only one junior and involved me extensively in the case. I think preparing for the final arguments in that matter, that went on for two whole weeks, has been one of the best experiences in my life. At the end of my internship, Mr. Andhyarujina gave me the most inspirational talk about litigation and Jamshedji Kanga’s chamber and presented me with a copy of Prashant Bhushan’s book “The case that shook India”, a factual account of Indira Gandhi v. Raj Narain. The book also had a transcript of the Keshavananda Bharti review. It is then that I decided to pursue a career in litigation and Mr. Andhyarujina has helped me ever since.

     

    What are your primary interests in the legal profession? Why?

    During my formative years at law school and immediately after, I used to be quite interested in human rights advocacy. To this end, I used to pursue a lot of work in Chattisgarh and other conflicted regions. After my B.C.L, I took a keen interest in commercial law. I was intrigued by common law decisions on contracts, restitution and civil procedure and the manner in which each statement by a Judge in his judgment impacts the law. I have pursued an interest in commercial law ever since.

     

    During your time at NALSAR, what extra–curricular and co–curricular activities, if any, did you participate in? How do you think these activities affected your take away from law school?

    Unlike most students during their time at law school, I did not participate in many moots while at NALSAR. In fact, I participated in just one moot, i.e. the Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot and incidentally, won the best speaker award there. I also debated just once, that too in my final year. However, I spent most of my time writing papers and in research. I feel this interest allowed me to attempt to critique the law beyond what is given in the text book. In fact, the publications have also immensely helped me with my scholarship and post graduate courses.

     

    You wrote your M.Phil dissertation on “Interim Injunctions and Judicial Delays in India”, discussing injunction hearings taking the role of mini – trials in India. Can you tell us something about it?

    aditya-swarup-1One of the most significant and engaging aspects of a civil suit is the granting of an interlocutory injunction pending the final decision in the matter. The grant of such an injunction is, in theory, purely provisional in nature, with the objective of maintaining status quo, and in the hope that a party doesn’t suffer from irreparable harm. However, in most circumstances, such injunctions are maintained for the entire length of the suit, the length of the suit then itself being a critical issue. A final determination of a civil suit in India can take anyway upwards of 7 years. This poses a peculiar predicament to the Indian legal system in the sense that though an interim measure is merely meant to be provisional, since it lasts the length of the suit, it achieves a sort of finality- an unintended and inevitable consequence. Considering the predicament that currently plagues the Indian judicial system, i.e., an insurmountable backlog of over 300,000 cases, interim injunctions, instead of serving its purpose now merely serve as a clog in the judicial system.

    In light of the above, I studied the relationship between judicial backlog and interim injunctions, culminating in a phenomenon that has acquired the term ‘mini-trials’- where the court conducts a thorough examination of the merits of the case at the interim stage so as to dispose the matter. A similar situation existed in England in the 1960’s and 70s, and I sought to examine the lessons learnt from that experience and  the viability and desirability of mini trials in tackling judicial backlog in India. As part of my research, I studied every reported case on interim injunctions in India.  

     

    What is your opinion of the current proposals to reduce judicial backlog? From which country/countries should India draw inspiration to solve this issue? Why?

    I believe that the solution to reducing case pendency is not to merely increase the number of judges but to bring about structural changes in the system. Unfortunately, most authorities, including the Law Commission, and lawyers stress on increasing the number of courts and judges to reduce case pendency.

    We should be mindful and borrow from the American experience. A series of suggestions were made in 1959 in the United States to address the increasing case load. The reforms that made their way out of these suggestions were primarily aimed at increasing the number of courts and judicial officers. The result however, was contrary to what was expected. The records showed that the caseload actually increased subsequent to the implementation of the reforms. This consequence has been explained by the renowned American Judge Richard Posner who rightly argued in a landmark paper that “reforms” increasing the number of judges and courts would only have an ad hoc effect. While being initially effective, in the long run, realising the efficacy of the legal system, it would merely result in more litigation. To buttress his argument – he drew upon a rather unusual analogy – while initially a new highway would serve the purpose of easing out traffic, road conditions would in fact induce people who had previously used other modes of transportation, to switch to driving. This would only result in leading to greater congestion. In this light, merely increasing the number of judges or courts is not going to be enough to tackle the predicament plaguing India’s judicial system – one must also address institutional changes and the culture of litigation prevalent in the country.

    The measures to reduce judicial backlog should also include the introduction of information and communication technology (ICT) support systems, developing online procedures for the filing of documents, notification of court dates, periodic reminders for submission of documents, service of documents via email and the like with an aim to have time bound litigation. A judge ought to decide cases and not allot dates. It is also important that we implement the procedure of costs following the event as provided in the CPC.

     

    In the year 2010, you were awarded the “Rhodes Scholarship”. How much does one have to achieve in order to be awarded such an esteemed scholarship? How did the scholarship benefit your professional career?

    The Rhodes Scholarship, unlike other scholarships, looks at the all round achievements of the individual based on criteria of academics, co-curriculars, leadership, social services and sports. In this sense, I believe that the Rhodes Scholarship is not just a scholarship to study in Oxford but a process and an experience. A process, in the sense that the very process of applying for the scholarship and meeting the various criteria helps one reflect on their life and achievements. An experience, because once you join Oxford, you are amidst a community of highly qualified achievers and even interacting with them is inspirational. I made some great friends amongst the other scholars. As regards my professional career, very few people in India and more particularly, the Bombay High Court were aware that I got the Rhodes so it didn’t matter.

     

    What is the primary purpose of the site, Something About the Law?

    (Aditya is currently the owner and author of the website, Something About the Law)

    Something About the Law was a blog that was started by my classmate Arun Mohan and myself while at law school. We used to write on various public policy and social issues from time to time. The idea of the blog was not merely to spread awareness about certain legal issues but also to individually hone our respective writing skills. To this end, I think the blog greatly helped me critically analyse various legal issues. During our penultimate year at law school, we started the Socio-Legal debates – the idea being that we would get distinguished speakers to fly down to NALSAR and debate with each other on issues with the entire debate being streamed online. We secured sponsors for the events and enjoyed packed audiences.

     

    Many a people in the legal practice are awestruck when they look at your long list of publications. Do you have any advice for any of our readers who might be interested in having their research papers and articles published?

    Haha. I am quite perturbed by the fact that students rarely read full cases or books now a days. If any research needs to be done, one instantly looks at online databases rather than open an authority on the subject and read the entire chapter. In fact, I myself used to do this while at law school till I was told by senior lawyers and well-wishers to read full cases (not just paragraphs or head notes). The utility of opening a book and reading all that is written about an issue, including its theoretical underpinnings also acts as a revision and strengthens the foundations of the reader. On the other hand, merely searching for a point of law online lacks these aspects.

    I believe this practice continues to help me in my research and understanding of the law and I would advise the readers to develop this habit, irrespective of whether they are interested in research and publications.

     

    You have recently taken a break from practicing law to teach and pursue research. What made you take this break? What are you currently focusing your research on? What are your views on the topic?

    I’ve taken a break primarily to strengthen my own foundations in commercial law, primarily contracts and commercial remedies. I am currently researching on the area of commercial remedies, i.e. injunctions, damages for breach of contracts, specific performance and trust based remedies (a largely ignored subject in India). One of the projects I’ve undertaken is to chart out a theory of damages in India. I’ve also taken a “break” to see if academia is my calling.

     

    Would you like to share any views on the state of legal education in India?

    There are a few disturbing aspects about the state of legal education and the profession in the country. Each of these stem from the fact that the legal profession in India is largely unorganised.

    First, it is quite tragic that even though we have only about 15 National Law Schools and about 5 other good legal institutions (20 in total), we cannot get adequate faculty to teach in these law schools. I was quite disturbed to read online that students at HNLU Raipur and NLU Assam were constrained to protest because they didn’t have adequate faculty or facilities. What was even more disturbing is the report that students at NLU Ranchi were asked to write their end-semester exams without being taught the subject. This points to an alarming trend in legal education.

    Second, and on a related note, not much is being done to attract talent into academia. A lot of students from national law schools are now pursuing LLMs, M.Phils and Ph.Ds. In fact, as of today, about 35 people from my batch of NALSAR itself have completed their Masters from reputable institutions. However, there is hardly any incentive, monetary or otherwise, for many of these students/alumni to get into academia. If one spends lakhs on their Masters, it is likely that they would need a job that can help pay off the loan. It should not then be expected that such person will join an institution that pays little.

    Third, despite graduating from most of these law schools, it is hard for the students to get jobs. This stems from the fact that the legal sector in India is largely unorganised and it is still hard to make it within the system if you don’t have any support/backing. Any organisation only exists in the law firms where one can be said (though some believe it exists here too) to be recruited on the basis of their competence. However, the supply of graduates from the national law schools and other reputable institutions largely overshadows the demand at the law firms.

    I believe that one of the advantages of a law degree is that there are many career options available to a lawyer after graduation. One may consider a career in litigation, law firms, corporates, human rights, the NGO sector, public policy, UPSC, the UN, journalism and the like. Legal institutions must capitalise on these advantages and help students diversify their career options after law school. At the same time, institutions like the Bar Council of India must strive to organise the profession in such a way that one isn’t disadvantaged because he or she doesn’t have a mentor or any backing in the profession.

     

    Finally, what is your message for our readers, most of whom are college students?

    The law school curriculum is structured in a way that exposes the student to many facets of the law. However, one notices that the moment a student joins law school, he or she is focused on joining a corporate firm, UPSC or the like. While it is good to be ambitious and have a plan, the student must not shut out his or her options. It is beneficial to be exposed to different areas of the law and then make a decision on what line to pursue. Students must also pursue research.

  • Ankita Ray, Senior Associate, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building a career in Corporate Law

    Ankita Ray, Senior Associate, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building a career in Corporate Law

    Ankita Ray graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2010. With excellent legal and soft skills, a profound love for the written word and a series of successful internships, after graduating she pursued a corporate law practice for a few years with J. Sagar Associates. She is now a Senior Associate in Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas.

    In this interview, she shares her insights on:

    • Interests and gravitating towards law and university life.
    • Decisions in college – extra-curricular activities and maintaining a good academic record.
    • Interning – how she chose her internships and the differential internship experiences in India and in Singapore.
    • Working at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas and the changes that being a senior associate brings.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a senior associate with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, working out of their Mumbai office. I was in the Bangalore offices of Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh A. Shroff & Co. for a period of 2 years, before relocating to Mumbai. I started my professional life with JSA, Bangalore, after graduating from Symbiosis Law School in 2010.

     

    Tell us about your life before you joined college. Where did your interests lie as school student?

    My father’s transferable job took me across various cities and towns in India, and through 8 schools! This meant recreating a new social circle and inculcating aspects of new cultures every few years, if not months. I have always been interested in the written word and would probably have studied literature, if law had not happened. While in school, debating and mock parliaments were my favourite extra-curricular activities and I bagged a few laurels representing my school in various competitions. It is a plus that both these interests come in handy as a professional lawyer.

     

    What made you gravitate towards law?

    What made me gravitate towards law – this is an interesting one! I had the opportunity to be a part of the Indian contingent to the International Schools Olympiad held in Karachi, Pakistan, in 2004. Organised by The Telegraph in Schools, our journey to Karachi was much more than a competition, and was dubbed a peace mission: ‘Bonding Beyond Borders’. While I cannot say enough about the exhilarating experience that it was at various levels, this was the first time I had exposure to interesting discussions on various legal issues across borders, especially on international law. This piqued my interest in the legal field. Later that year, while deciding on which field to select for my graduate studies, I knew that I wanted to study law.

     

    What extra-curricular activities did you participate in while in university? What do you think is the importance of moot competitions, mediation competitions and debates in aiding the overall development of a law student?

    ankita-ray-4My approach towards engaging in any form of extra/co-curricular activity is geared towards expanding my limits and gaining new experiences. Given that, personally, I do not think one kind of activity can be more important than the other. However, it is best to take a shot at every possible opportunity before deciding what you would like to be regular at. Moots etc. are definitely helpful in getting your research and speaking skills in place or to evaluate yourself in those areas. While it is important to move out of your comfort zone, it is also important to try to understand what you identify with.

    The first couple of years in college, I was into debating (and won the best team in debating in Mood Indigo and a Rotary Club debate). Thereafter, having interned in law firms by then, I realised the importance of having adequate drafting skills. Further, I realised I enjoyed the entire process of researching and putting it down on paper in the form of an article. I won the national first prize for an essay on cyber crimes, in a competition organised by Competition Success Review, in 2013 and a couple of articles also got published in Manupatra.

     

    How important is a CGPA for recruiters to assess students? How did you maintain a balance between a good academic record at university and your extracurricular activities?

    Let’s put it this way: for the purposes of campus recruitment, CGPA is one way for recruiters to shortlist from a large number of students. Also, if one intends to pursue a Masters degree, academic scores will be relevant. Any which way, it never hurts to keep your academic records in good shape.

    It was not very difficult to maintain a balance between a good academic record and extracurricular activities! During our time at Symbiosis Law School, we did not have the concept of weekly assignments and exams (which have been introduced now), which made it a bit easier. However, like in everything, time management is essential – usually keeping a fixed time (even if it is half an hour a day) to devote to your extracurricular activities works well.

     

    ankita-ray-1

    Tell us about your internship experiences. How did you choose your internships? How early did you apply? Are there any things that an applicant must keep in mind?

    Initially, I wanted to test out as many avenues of the legal profession as possible, in order to make an informed decision on which one I would want to follow. Therefore, I interned with an NGO, a senior counsel in the Kolkata High Court, in the legal departments of Vodafone India and ICICI Bank and law firms, in that order. Post my first internship in a law firm (Khaitan & Co., Kolkata) I realised that I would like to work in a law firm environment. Hence, all my internships thereafter were in law firms.

    I applied anywhere between 6 – 9 months in advance. Very often, during an internship, my reporting/mentoring lawyers were kind enough to either get me a follow on internship or refer me to other firms for internships, when requested. Similarly, seniors from college were a great help when it came to getting internships.

    A couple of things that an applicant for internships must be careful about, even before actually joining an internship, is their application email (which should be without any grammatical or spelling errors and customised) and their resume (which should not be very long). Following up after sending an email requesting for an internship opportunity is another important matter.

     

    You interned at reputed firms in India as well as a firm in Singapore. How was the internship experience different? What did you gain from the experience?

    I was lucky to get an opportunity to experience the workings of a foreign law firm during my stint at Drew & Napier in Singapore, which added another dimension to the entire internship experience. The chance to examine the laws and experience the workings of the judicial process of a different jurisdiction was a fruitful experience. Meeting lawyers and co-interns from Singapore and other countries like Australia, France etc., having discussions on comparative aspects of laws from our respective countries was truly enriching.

     

    You joined JSA after graduation. Tell us about your experience at the firm and the work profile you were entrusted with.

    Like all firsts, my tenure at the Bangalore offices of JSA (where I began my career from), is memorable in many ways. I got an interesting mix of work there, ranging from technology law (this was in 2011, when the privacy rules were enforced) to transactional matters.

    Since I hear a lot of complaints from juniors about doing due diligences, one thing I would specifically like to mention here is that in my first year of work, I also did a lot of due diligence exercises. Contrary to popular belief, due diligence exercises were a great learning experience since they exposed me to the entire gamut of laws that may be applicable and a range of different sectors.

     

    You have now been made senior associate. How different is the work from being an associate and what challenges have you had to deal with since?

    ankita-ray-2At the Senior Associate level, you need to be thorough with your field of law. You are expected to have ready answers which are legally sound and which can be implemented in practice. It is also essential to develop skills (both, legal and soft skills) to handle clients on your own and maintain an ongoing relationship with them.

    In terms of work, there is a shift from taking the first crack at a document to reviewing a first draft worked upon by a junior. In this regard, there is also a role of mentorship that you play in your own small way.

    Additionally, you are increasingly aware of the business side of law practice – invoicing and revenue generation, networking to generate more work etc.

     

    Apart from corporate/commercial matters, you now handle a lot of labour and employment matters. Could you give our readers a glimpse into what the area deals with for those interested and the type of matters one may expect to deal with?

    Previously, employment and labour laws were pertinent more from the perspective of protection of blue-collared workers. However, with increasing interest in India as a destination for foreign investment, finer issues in this field of law have arisen. Hence, employment law practice has now assumed greater significance, with many law firms recognising it as a separate, albeit upcoming practice area.

    In terms of work, there are primarily four buckets one may consider: The first being employment advisory which covers complex issues of trade union strategy, high profile terminations, large scale downsizing and retrenchments in all sectors, sexual harassment complaints, as well as routine matters such as employee handbooks, appointment letters etc.

    The second bucket of work is transactional – conducting human resources due diligence, employee movement, transfer of employee benefits, recognising employment related risks in different types of transactions, whether business transfer or share acquisitions.

    The third bucket of work is contentious matters such as wrongful terminations, internal investigations, disciplinary procedures, sexual harassment complaints and includes representations before the labour commissioner.

    The fourth bucket is compliance – where we conduct employment health checks for companies and assist in identifying risks and advice on best practices.

    The practice of employment laws is interesting and challenging given the human element involved in every situation – no two people react in the same way and often each situation we advise on throws up different issues, which are often time sensitive and have to be dealt with. Therefore, it involves thinking on your feet, where you have to complement your legal knowledge with a practical approach towards the issue at hand. With regard to the kind of work one can expect, there are no two days which are similar! And that is what makes this practice area invigorating!

     

    Finally, what advice would you have for our readers, most of whom are college going students?

    While at law school, try to participate in as many activities as you can, be it moots, debates, mock parliaments. Also, I would emphasise doing as many internships as possible, because there is no alternative to gaining practical experience. However, do enjoy the college days!