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  • Roop Loomba, Co-founder and Managing Partner, Loomba Legal Services, on being General Counsel and her diverse experience

    Roop Loomba, Co-founder and Managing Partner, Loomba Legal Services, on being General Counsel and her diverse experience

    Roop graduated in law from Punjab University Campus Law School in 1999. She has over seventeen years of experience in Legal Operations encompassing Legal Strategy Planning, Litigation, Business Partnering, Compliances, Business Divestment, Integration, Demergers, Factory Compliances, etc. She is well versed with Civil, Criminal & Commercial Laws, Corporate Laws, Food Laws and Constitutional Law of India, Legal Metrology Laws, Labour Laws, Sales tax Laws, Competition Law etc. She holds the distinction of administering legal operations across the Indian sub-continent including South Asian countries Like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, and Bhutan.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at Castrol India Limited, HUL, and Philips Electronics.
    • Her role as General Counsel
    • Her experience thus far

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    Hello, I am lawyer by passion and I was just like any other student in college or University having stars in the eyes and dreams to fulfill. I always dreamt of becoming a successful and a respected lawyer. If you have a dream you will automatically work to fulfill it. So dream big and work hard to redeem it.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field? Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    I found Law as the most enabling, liberating and powerful profession. I always wanted to pursue a degree which enabled me professionally and  which empowered me not to depend upon a job to fulfill my professional desires.This is the one of the few careers which enables you to become an entrepreneur in your field. This profession also empowers you to secure other’s rights and do justice to the society which is very satisfying. I belong to the family of first generation lawyers, so have been a self starter and self driven.

     

    Can you share some memorable experiences from you time at law school?

    In our time, unlike these days, we did not have any structured internships. Hence, this deprived us of true mentorship. I participated in moot courts as I liked to prepare legal  propositions and argue the case. After passing out of Department of Law, Panjab University, I joined a chamber of a criminal lawyer in Chandigarh. I learnt some basics of court procedure from him.

     

    What was your first job out of law school? 

    I started as a practising lawyer and I quickly became a standing counsel of four Government corporations. I thought that a successful practice is a combination of Government litigation as well as your private clients. However even though I came up on panel of four Government corporations I was given meager work as nobody reposed trust in me as a youngster, I was constantly denied opportunities. The more struggle I faced more determined I became. I represented some private clients at the High Court level and my arguments were appreciated. I started teaching the Police officers on IT laws and IPR Laws in Bureau of Police research and development. This made me learn a lot. This also enabled me to develop a never say die attitude. My biggest learning in the profession has been dream big, work hard towards your dream and never lose hope. On the professional side the learning is give the best even in a weak case. If your opposite lawyer is a seasoned lawyer without being arrogant never get over -awed by his presence and use your presence of mind, that really works in courts.

     

    Can you recall your first time appearing in court, or a time you have argued a significantly important matter? 

    I recall many such events. The first time I appeared in a court was before the Hon’ble High Court of Punjab and Haryana. It was my senior’s matter and a bail matter under NDPS Act. The moment I faced the Judge I got very nervous even though I had prepared the brief I got blank. It was only after two to three minutes that I regained my composure and my flow of words and started addressing the queries of the Hon’ble High court. The bail was granted and I was extremely happy.

    I remember two writ petitions that I argued. One was under article 14 of Constitution of India where I argued the concept of equity and good conscience before Hon’ble Mr. Justice JL Gupta. I also argued a matter under Representation of People’s Act, for lowering the voting age in local bodu elections from 21 years (it had still not been lowered) to eighteen years. The matter was listed before the Hon’ble first bench and since the election process had already started, the Hon’ble court declined to interfere, this is when I used my presence of mind and argued that the Hon’ble court may interfere prospectively and not retrospectively. There was a packed courtroom. The Hon’ble first bench very graciously agreed and issued a notice instead of dismissing the same. They also had a word of praise for me which propelled my courage and morale. When I stepped out of the courtroom many of my seniors and seasoned colleagues complimented me for displaying good advocacy and saving the case from dismissal.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Castrol? 

    During my practice days I had also ventured successfully into IP practice as one of the verticals of my Law practice. It was during this time that my Delhi based cousin sent me an advertisement for an IP Lawyer in Castrol. The advertisement had been published in Ascent of Times of India. Initially I declined as I was very passionate about my own legal practice. However, I still decided to appear in the interview and I cleared it. There were close to eight rounds of interview in Delhi and Mumbai as I was the first woman who was being hired for this role which was considered as a challenging role as I was responsible for driving the anti counterfeit strategy in the North region. There are organized counterfeit gangs. It was not an easy role however I would like to highlight a strong support from my seniors which was instrumental in performing my role successfully. One more thing worth highlighting here is a strong support from the family. Both my parents gave me rock solid support during challenging times and my extended family in Delhi which consisted of my cousins never let my morale dip. During testing times one has a tendency to quit and go back as I was putting up alone in Delhi and my family was in Chandigarh. However I decided to hang in and after some time I saw a smooth road ahead.

     

    How did your appointment at Hindustan Unilever happen?

    My name was referred in HUL as a very informal conversation that happened between two erstwhile colleagues at the airport. Apparently HUL wanted to appoint a lawyer in IP for head office in Mumbai, and one of my colleagues in Castrol referred my name stating that here is a lady who is good in IP. I think my name was referred on Tuesday and I was called to HUL office in Gurgaon for an interview on Thursday of the same week. My interview was conducted by none other than Mr. Saswata Dhar. However unfortunately somehow even though I was liked by the interview panel and was about to be selected the position went on a hold for some time. I was really excited about joining HUL and had also informed my family of my decision of shifting to Mumbai. I got very demoralized and disillusioned. However sometimes things happen only at the time they are destined to happen. In October of the same year (2007) I again got a call from HUL and I was interviewed by the Regional Legal manager and the Executive director Legal and the offer letter was rolled out.

    Joining HUL was like going back to the University as the learning curve was very steep. My job involved assisting the Regional Legal Manager, overseeing close to nine factories for their compliances and litigation, support to the regional leadership team.

    I think working on few issues with Mr. Rajesh Bagga, Mr. Saswata Dhar, Shantanu Sinha was a great learning experience. I owe my knowledge in Labour Laws to Shantanu, my overall approach to work to Mr. Rajesh Bagga (I still remember his advice, “Do whatever you do to the best of your ability and leave your mark in your work, you will be proud of yourself when you work hard and gain knowledge and success.”). I owe my learning in marketing claims cases to Mr. Saswata Dhar. Working with these people was inspiring and which further lead me to try to adhere to their advice as far as possible. The big organisations have many complexities in work and equal challenges for an in-house counsel, you are expected to ensure enablement of business and at the same time compliance with Laws. Also you need to work with speed and accuracy, hence you need to be on top of things. You are also expected to lead the external lawyers and not to be lead by external lawyers. My aspiration to grow and gain exposure in different industries made me take a decision to move from HUL. However I am still in touch with my erstwhile seniors.

     

    How did you secure a position at Phillips?

    During your professional career you make a lot of friends. This can only happen if you mean well for others and have clear intentions. Also if you are good in your job, your reputation spreads. I got only one job in my career through a job consultant. All my other jobs have been through a word of mouth for my work and domain knowledge. I was referred by a friend in Philips. Joining Philips in 2011 was a liberating experience. I was responsible for giving support to their Consumer Lifestyle vertical of business. I was responsible for giving overall Legal advice to the sector, for their compliances, for integration of the newly acquired company down south. I was also introduced into making Government representations for amendment of Laws by my senior. I owe  lot to my senior who was heading legal department Mr. Rajiv Wani, for polishing my performance as a senior counsel.

     

    You were involved in a demerger of a major company. Can you describe this process and the challenges you faced?

    Demerger of business was a learning experience and it was highly complex. The entire exercise involved separation of close to ten thousand contracts, obtaining various licenses timely across states and ensuring the continuity of business. I was involved in Demerger along with other responsibilities and was handling other projects, negotiations also. It was a high pressure job. However the management was very generous in appreciating and recognizing my work.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the general nature of work and responsibilities of a general counsel? 

    (Roop has been listed in the Powerlist of top 100 General Counsel list by Legal 500 for India.)

    In today’s world a General Counsel is expected to wear different hats at different times. You are expected to play a diverse and vital strategic role as opposed to some years back where a General counsel was expected to play only a role of a Legal advisor. Apart from being a key legal advisor for the company, today a General counsel is expected to have a keen business knowledge and is expected to play a role of business enabler along with being strictly responsible for over compliances. A General Counsel is also a member of many corporate committees and is expected to drive many other business strategies apart from just being a legal person.

    To be a successful General counsel one needs to have a very good domain knowledge because if you have domain knowledge then you can speak with depth. You can have a good domain knowledge only if you read a lot . You need to be practical and have logic. You need to be a strong individual and not a people pleaser. A General Counsel should always have the ability to stand up for things. A good GC always thinks out of box and does not toe the line. Above all a good GC should not often be falling back for advice from external counsels but should have adequate domain knowledge to lead things himself/herself. Last but not the least a GC should be upright, ethical and a person of words.

    My advice to young lawyers is to develop good domain knowledge, have curiosity of mind, be strong in approach , upright, and have a clarity of thought and a fearless approach.

     

    What made you decide to take the path of being a general counsel as opposed to working in a law office? 

    I was more inclined towards a legal practice than taking up a job because I am a fiercely independent person. However, as in my initial days, I was struggling to get business in practice, I had to switch to jobs. However I do not regret the decision even once. I have learnt a lot from all the orgaisations that I worked for. I met some very wonderful people who had a very positive impact in shaping me into an good individual and a professional.

    When you do your own practice you need to be on top of things as there is never a second chance. In a job you may still get a third or fourth chance of survival. In a job you are driven by a company’s strategy. In your own practice you are more entrepreneurial in your approach and way more creative. As an in-house counsel you think more diversely and dynamically than external lawyers to enable business. You clearly know where the business standpoint is coming from and you tend to understand business more.

     

    Did you ever consider pursuing higher education?

    If I was not employed with Castrol I was going to Glasgow for higher education. I think higher studies helps you to gain more knowledge. However, in my opinion, nothing can replace your learning on the job. Your professional career is steered to the extent of 80% by your on-the-job learning and only twenty percent by your higher education.

    However, each individual should exercise his free will in doing what he wants to do. No decision is bad, it is upon you to make your decision work. Only indecision is bad both for your health and for your career’s health. Always take a decision, own it and make it work.

     

    How do you remain updated with all the new developments in your fields of interest and practice?

    I have a very curious mind and unless I get into the root of a thing I just keep reading. For a lawyer curiosity of mind and reading habit keeps him updated. 

     

    Can you give our readers some advice on how they can improve the quality of their articles and generally increase their chances of getting published?

    I think one should be very structured in one’s thought when one starts writing. You can be structured in your thoughts if you have clarity of mind and thoughts. Hence, if you pick up any subject in law to write about, draw up a structure in your mind or a notebook, to ensure that one para logically flows from the other and there is no disconnect. Be objective and precise. It is all about clarity of expression and the rest is magic. Lastly, you must enjoy writing.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    I was also a student some years back, who came from Chandigarh without any formal experience, but I still made it. Key takeaways from my experience in life are be fearless in approach, clear in intentions with a good heart, never give up, there is always a smooth road after a road bump. Help others as always positive energy comes back to support you.

  • Nivedita Nivargi, Partner, Samvad Partners, on her current professional role, and her diverse experience

    Nivedita Nivargi, Partner, Samvad Partners, on her current professional role, and her diverse experience

    Nivedita is a 2004 pass out of ILS Law College at Pune. Nivedita also holds a diploma in Consumer Protection Law offered by the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies (IALS), undertaken as part of the ‘Towards Conscious Legal Education’ program. Nivedita started her career in law with Ashira Law, Bangalore. While at Ashira Law, she
    dealt with litigation related to consumer protection, negotiable instruments, family law, and commercial real estate as well as handling of general corporate matters. Nivedita joined Samvad Partners in April of 2006 (then known as Narasappa, Doraswamy & Raja) as the first associate and has been with the firm since then. Nivedita was one of the
    first set of associates to be elevated to partnership from within the firm. Her practice areas comprise corporate and commercial laws with focus on private equity, venture capital funding, mergers and acquisitions, joint ventures and general corporate advisory.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at law school
    • Her role at Samvad Partners
    • Striking a work-life balance

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? 

    I am a lawyer based out of Bangalore, currently associated with Samvad Partners.  I do not belong to a family of lawyers and am a first-generation lawyer.  I am a fitness enthusiast and aspire to be a long-distance runner someday. I have also been a keen student of several forms of western and Indian classical dancing.     

     

    What motivated you to pursue law? 

    Although I come from a family of engineers, my family did not influence my choice of career and the decision to take up law was completely my own. During my formative years I always wanted to do something to help the under privileged and those without access to the legal system.  Therefore, my taking up of the formal study of law was in pursuance of this inclination.

    The time I spent at ILS was a memorable one.  During my five years there, I got an opportunity to meet and interact with people from different cultures and backgrounds, which played a significant role in broadening my outlook and perspective.

     

    Did you take up activities such as moots, debates and sports in law school? 

    While at ILS, I participated in several co-curricular cultural activities. I also took up part time employment with a direct marking associate of ICICI Finance to gain some work experience.  Though this was not entirely relevant (to the practice of law), it helped me inculcate discipline and good work ethics.     

     

    Can you share some memorable internship experiences with us? 

    During my time, internships were not a compulsory part of the curriculum. As such, my decisions relating to internships were guided to a large extent by the projects that were available and were of interest to me at that time. The internships that I took up were a good mix of corporate as well as NGO work.  One such memorable experience was of the time I volunteered to be part of the relief program conducted by Human Rights Law Network (HRLN), in Gujarat in the wake of the Bhuj earthquake. This was a special experience because it gave me an opportunity to undertake relief work at grassroots level.      

    The trend of increasing competition for internships is a good one, as it requires students to take internships seriously and make the most of the opportunity, with the objective of potentially securing pre-placement offers.     

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school? 

    At ILS, we did not have a specific comprehensive course on corporate laws as part of the curriculum.  As such, knowledge of various aspects of the practice of corporate laws was mostly gained through corporate internships. My aim was to gain an all-round experience of different fields of law in order for me to choose a definite career path.

      

    What was your first job after law school? 

    Immediately after graduating from ILS, I joined Ashira Law at Bangalore, primarily as a litigating lawyer, where I was also involved in some pro-bono matters and assisted in representing women in matrimonial disputes.  Apart from practising litigation, I got to deal with general corporate matters, which piqued my interest in corporate law. This gave me the impetus in giving corporate law a try and I really enjoyed it, finally leading to the shift. Since Ashira Law was a fairly new set-up at that point of time, I got the opportunity to be involved with not just client work and deliverables but also with aspects of office management.

     

    How did your appointment at Samvad Partners come about? 

    I joined Samvad Partners (then known as Narasappa, Doraswamy & Raja) in 2006 as the first associate, and have been with the firm ever since. I got the opportunity to work extensively with the founding partners of the firm and be mentored by them. I must say that this has contributed to a great extent in honing my skills as a lawyer and ingraining the core values of the firm in me. From the very beginning, there was a lot of emphasis placed on building a solid technical knowledge base which has benefited me a great deal.  I was also one amongst the first set of associates who were elevated to partnership from within the firm.  My journey at Samvad has been truly exciting and fulfilling.

     

    What is the nature of your work as a Partner at Samvad Partners? 

    My practice areas comprise corporate and commercial laws with a focus on private equity, venture capital funding, mergers and acquisitions, joint ventures and general corporate advisory.   

     

    What motivated you to pursue a diploma in Consumer Protection law? 

    The diploma in Consumer Protection Law was one of the several diploma courses offered by the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies (IALS) as part of the ‘Towards Conscious Legal Education’ program.  In addition to the regular degree course, I pursued this diploma course to add to my knowledge base and it certainly helped since I was also dealing with consumer protection matters while at Ashira Law.    

     

    What are your views on the importance and necessity of higher education? 

    In my view, higher education is important and helpful if one intends to pursue a career in academia or intends to work abroad.  While higher education provides one with a broader perspective, the flip side would be that one would lose out on additional practical work experience during the time they are pursing higher studies.  Therefore, the decision to pursue higher studies should be a well thought out one.  

       

    How do you maintain a work life balance?  

    I try and effectively manage my time between work, family and my other interests in order to maintain the desired work life balance. It also helps that Samvad provides an excellent support system and work flexibility, as that gives me the ability to organise my day and prioritise my tasks better.   

     

    How do you keep yourself updated with legal developments in the numerous areas of law you deal with on a daily basis?

    One needs to follow legal developments on a real time basis to be able to provide up to date and correct legal advice.  Luckily this is not too difficult to do, as most information is now available at the click of a button. I regularly check official websites relating to my practice areas to track any new developments in law.  I also follow a few publications/blogs which carry some excellent articles on topics relevant to corporate laws. At Samvad, we have knowledge building sessions every week, where we discuss specific topics relating to our various practice areas and those help a great deal in gaining knowledge.

     

    What are the qualities required to succeed in the field of corporate law and in major law firms? 

    In my view, climbing ranks in a major law firm is not the only path that everyone must necessarily follow.  It is important to chart your own path and create a niche for yourself. It helps to be in a place that values your contribution and also in turn contributes to your growth at a professional as well as at a personal level.  Whatever the chosen path may be, I believe there is no substitute for hard work, dedication and tenacity.

      

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    I would advise students to make the most of their time at college and participate in as many co-curricular and extra-curricular activities as possible. Not only does this help in building a good CV, but also enables gaining of interesting life experiences and creation of potentially long lasting relationships.    

     

  • Mekhla Basu, Senior Compliance Counsel, Intel Technologies, on Regulatory Compliance, the importance of higher education, and her experience

    Mekhla Basu, Senior Compliance Counsel, Intel Technologies, on Regulatory Compliance, the importance of higher education, and her experience

    Mekhla Basu graduated in BSL LLB from I.L.S Law College under Pune University in 2005. She is a qualified legal & compliance professional and senior executive with experience in advising top multinationals on operating procedures & business practices for legal & compliance requirements in the Greater Asia Region. In her professional experience, Mekhla has proficiently provided corporate consultancy to management & board of directors in top multinational companies in her career spanning over a decade; has in-depth competence in anti-trust & competition law, Intellectual Property and cyber/ e-commerce laws, privacy & data security, labour & employment, alternate dispute resolution, corporate governance & ethical landscape,  risk mitigation and other complex legal issues applicable to multinational companies across industries like FMCG, Medical & Pharma and IT. Mekhla has been one of India’s youngest Regional GCs, and widely known in the industry for her core competence. Mekhla has also served as country Vice-Chair with Business Software Alliance (“BSA”) in a non-profit role.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • The Legal Compliance regime in India
    • Her time at Unilever, GE Healthcare, IBM, and Intel
    • Being one of the youngest General Counsels in the country

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    I come from a family of business and engineering. In fact, I would like to point out that no one in my extended family has even studied, let alone practised, law. My interest in law started when I was very young. I come from a family of illustrated freedom fighters, including both my grandparents. Since childhood a sense of self respect, freedom and empathy towards human misery was instilled by my family and one of the ways they cleverly did that was by introducing me to reading, very early in life; in fact by the time I started school, I was already home taught to read. A voracious reader as a child, many of the inspiring characters, political thinkers, statesmen of the world were lawyers and I started viewing this profession as a noble one and one where I could help others by standing up for their rights.

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field?

    As I said earlier, my interest in the field of law was purely ideological. I had excellent grades in school, which had offered me an opportunity to pursue any stream – and at one point I did seriously consider studying medicine because psychiatry was another subject that intrigued me (and still does). I have always had a bit of a rebellious streak. In my generation, most bright young people with great grades were pursuing science. I had always loved reading, especially history, sociology, psychology and politics outside of my school curriculum, which had given me enough wisdom to conclude, even at a young age itself that one needs to pursue passion over trends. Even at the cost of criticism from my teachers and well-wishers I took up humanities with pure mathematics as my +2 subjects so I focus on what I want to do next- i.e. law. Through all this, I had unconditional support from my parents on the freedom of choice!

     

    How was your experience in law school? Do you think law school prepared you for the real world practice of law? 

    My five years in law school was a rewarding experience; partly due to the fact that my education was self-propelled, partly because I had excellent school mates with gifted and curious minds. Debating with class mates over a cup of tea at the famous ILS canteen, or even seniors on jurisprudence was one of our favourite ways to pass time We had very good faculty as well; I still remember Mrs. Jathal and Mrs. Bhadbade who were iconic figures. It was a pleasure attending their classes. However, legal education in India is very theory centric and nothing prepares you for the fast paced, psychotic, dynamic business environment, especially as an in-house counsel that you find yourself landed in, few years hence. I must say however, internships, really help. My interest in extra-curricular was more inclined to human –rights and I had spent a couple of months doing volunteering work during the Gujrat riots, in the violence stricken city of Ahmedabad, especially helping women victims of heinous crimes find their legal rights. As a young adult, this volunteering experience propelled me toward accepting the real, politically tumultuous world we live in. I have also written extensively in books relating to the subjects of women’s rights and violence against women.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school? How did you recognise and cultivate such interests?

    My top interest were women’s rights, intellectual property and governance related issues. All of the fields, I have had the good fortune to work in real time. I developed interest in these fields through reading, mostly and they being intrinsic subjects of relevance and interest.

     

    What are your views about the importance of higher education?  

    I have considered higher studies and to be honest I still am considering. Nothing replaces the power of education and exposure to fellow brilliant minds. My suggestion will be, even though you have scholarship merit or have the means to rely on parental resources—hold-off your masters as long as you can, till you are sure about your interest in the field of law. Also, once you acquire extensive work experience, it is not necessary that an LLM will continue to interest you—getting a degree in management or finance or strategy/ leadership or even risk mitigations are all great avenues for future growth and brand building. Do this outside of India, if you can. Exposure to a foreign culture opens your mind, beyond means you can imagine. Most students use LLM degree to get the ideal job at a mid-career level. Trust me, if you are that lethal combination diligence, resilience and brilliance, you will land great jobs with great companies, anyway. Rather use your PG/ Ph.D or M.Phil degree to enhance your career and the brand you!

     

    What was your first job after college and how did you secure it? 

    My first job after college was with the biggest IP law firm in the country. I had a fabulous boss who was a senior associate. She taught me the importance of having an eye for detail—the single most important skill that can be acquired through practice and this helps me in my day to day job.

     

    Do you recall your first time appearing in court?

    There is no end to preparation when it comes to Court appearances. Standing real time, in front of a judge, for a complex IP matter with an equally intimidating oppositing counsel had given me butterflies. However, once I appeared and started arguing my case, my confidence came back—thank god to the power of a thorough homework and doing a lot of research on the client’s business!

     

    What caused you to move to being an in house counsel from working at a law office? 

    Frankly, I found the experience in law firms a bit limiting and political. Not to criticise anyone, I had excellent mentors in the law firms I had worked and they are still my close friends and confidants in personal/ professional life. I am talking more about the general culture of insecurity and politics and the lack of abject professional attitude with which Indian firms operate. I am extremely to the point and objective by nature who appreciates & deserves fast tracked growth and real accountability—this is where the decision to switch to a multi-national company occurred.

     

    How did your appointment at Unilever happen? 

    This is an interesting story that reiterates the power of networking—which I am normally very bad at. I had applied to Unilever way back in 2006 but no suitable opportunities were offered. Incidentally, my college mate’s family friend was a senior legal Director in Unilever and during one of my work visits to Mumbai, I went across to meet him. I believe he was very impressed and encouraged me to apply again. I did so after six months, in 2007 in a suitable opening and was called for an interview. I went through five rounds of interview, including one with Executive Director, Legal and was able to impress the senior panelists with my pragmatic sense and foundations of first principles. I was being interviewed for a position in the branch office but post the interview, was told that I will be joining the head office directly, in super interesting newly created role– that of a marketing lawyer. That started my life long journey of being a generalist with an inclination for cutting edge legal issues like competition, privacy, advertising disputes and high value transaction negotiations. Ten years ago, these were very niche fields and very little to fall back on, but I’m truly glad about the trust Unilever reposed on me and having met some fantastic mentors like Mr. Rajesh Bagga and Mr. Saswat Dhar who are almost institutions in the legal fraternity. It goes a long way, when you learn from the best minds.

    How did you secure a position at GE Healthcare? 

    Except for Unilever, in all my jobs, I have been head-hunted. For a personal reason, I needed to move to Bangalore from Mumbai. It was a risk, but one worth taking, hence I took it anyway. Healthcare as an industry is highly regulated and especially in GE the Healthcare division had several sub-divisions like equipment manufacturing, life science, pharma and health care technology. Each of these divisions had their own regulatory as well as ethical challenges and a tight-rope walking to manage the compliance as well as business profitability is a huge challenge for any lawyer in the health care segment.

     

    How did you secure a position with IBM? 

    Through a leading head-hunter in Asia. This was my first role as a Compliance Officer and the switch I made from a General Counsel to a compliance role. Idealistic, as it may sound, I was tired of making money for the corporations I worked for. I wanted to do something more- make a real difference. Not by doing something drastic like taking up activism, but creating value in the corporate world itself. The role of a Compliance Officer, offers an individual that ability. Just as the nomenclature suggests, appointment as IBM’s Trust and Compliance Officer, made me responsible for the overall ethical and cultural compliance of the company employing over 100,000 people in India alone. Subject area wise, my realm was good governance; anti-corruption; anti-money laundering; employee best practices; in-house forensic investigations and risk identification, analysis and mitigation. As part of the management team, a Compliance Officer has a voice on how to run the company and ensures good governance. There is as much power in this role as there is responsibility.

    Could you tell us how your appointment with Intel happened?

    My appointment with Intel as Intel’s South East Asia Compliance Officer happened earlier this year- again through a head-hunter. In addition to my portfolio in IBM, at Intel, I am responsible for good governance and anti-competition compliance in over 16 countries of operation. The first and foremost challenge is of course- logistical- working across the different time zones, tele-commuting to maximise presence in all the different country’s management teams and establish oneself as a credible leader in Asia. Next, of course, are the differences in legal structure—while a Singapore is very sophisticated and compliant, we have India and Vietnam that are perceived to be corrupt and chaotic markets. Third and the most significant one are the cultural differences that one needs to be mindful of-  not just in the Company but also the eco-system for eg. re-sellers, vendor, distributors partners etc.

     

    What do you find interesting about Compliance and what are the top compliance concerns in India? 

    Let’s cut a long story short; a company will not go out of operation if there is a mistake in a transaction or if they lose a case in the Court of law, they might go out of operation however, if the employee or even a vendor pays a bribe. We are living in an age where adherence to compliance is increasingly under scrutiny—it helps companies build and retain their brand value, ensures business sustainability and looks after share-holders interest, not only in the country of operation but globally. In the last few years, how many names of companies have you heard that have come under the scrutiny of regulators for unfair business practices, insider trading, unduly influencing Government stakeholders.  Many companies are recruiting top talents from the legal field to join as their chief compliance officer. As a compliance officer, you are acting more like a lawyer to the legal team, a senior executive responsible for the operation of the company at par with CFO or the COO. There is a misconception that compliance is boring, in fact it is exactly the opposite. In how many departments will you get the opportunity to conduct legal and forensic investigations to come to a root of the matter. My advise to young students will be that you consider this field, after a few years into the profession. You cannot however become a good compliance officer unless you are a brilliant lawyer.

    In India there are several compliance related issues that keep me awake at night. Recruiting and integrating lateral hires, into the culture of the company and setting expectations of right conduct. Balancing immense business pressure with ethical demands, is another. Working with third parties who represent the company in the market; expecting them to and ensuring they follow similar ethical standard is a big challenge. Last but not the least, ensuring that there is right tone from top management level and example setting is yet another.

    If I were to list in order of priority, top MNC Tech companies are plagued with privacy and sovereignty of data issue. Along with that comes the challenge to structure innovative distributorship and resell channels, given our burgeoning anti-trust legislation. Many companies hire contract workers, management of contractual workers is also a big issue to be watchful about. Last but not the least, our taxation system is complex and requires much time and resource to manage and simplify.

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in? 

    Read, read, read. Nothing replaces the power of reading and constantly updating what is happening around the world. There is a new trend in the industry to attend several conferences and even at times be a part of panel discussions etc—personally I find that less rewarding and overtly generalised. These days, the largest and the most powerful companies are one that have big data, so imagine what a difference big data can make to personal skills.

    Having said that, in today’s time there is just too much to read and it is important to stream-line one’s interest or goals. But above all, what is happening around the world politically or socially is also strongly connected to the changes in legal field. An example- Brexit is a truth of our generation, can we then delve deep to understand what will be the future of merger control laws? Similarly, if one has an interest—what are the legal implications of self-driven vehicles? There is just too much out there- my suggestion would be to choose your topic in line with your interest and deep dive– this will continue to reward you personally and professionally.

     

    Can you give our readers some advice that would help them improve their chances of getting published?

    The only advise I have for students or young lawyers when you are looking at publishing is treat your subject like a university dissertation. Three things should come across very clearly- The exact moot point, the analysis- both for and against and a clear, objective conclusion. I read so many article that are pointless and worse still, generic. Please remember, through your article, you are showcasing your intellect and the last thing you want is to show-case is a generic mind. These days there are multiple venues of publications—many online forums. I’m extremely critical about choosing the right medium. Also, if writing is your passion, don’t wait for a forum, start your own legal blog.

     

    How is being a general counsel different from working in a law office? 

    (Mekhla has been one of India’s youngest General Counsels.)

    Thank you and yes I do feel immensely fortunate in my career to reach an apex point at a young age. I truly believe- you do not need gray hair to show your gray cells. In this entrepreneur and start-up driven world, boards are full of twenty and 30 somethings and it is time large corporations recognise that and value millennials for what they bring to the table- passion, empathy, collaboration, critical thinking, ability to ask probing questions and cultural navigability.

    I get asked this question very often- what makes a successful general counsel and there are no top 5 or 10 qualities. It is, in fact, an amalgamation of a few. A GC should be a fast thinker and a good listener. A GC should have the fragile balance of empathy and assertion. It is important for a young GC to establish quick credibility and in this case, there is no replacement for hard work. I read somewhere, that an average CEO reads 60 books a year—a GC should read more and be totally abreast of legal, social, financial and political issues. I have spoken about eye for detail earlier, this needs to constantly worked on—be that Sherlock Holmes you always wanted to be- your role as an in-house counsel offers you the unique opportunity to be that!

    All these great qualities however are of no use without a reasonable and balanced mind- give yourself regular breaks, spend time with people you value and care and create your own board of directors and supporters within and outside the organisation, who not only vouch for you professionally but as a good person; as a good leader. Look out for your team- they are your family.

    Be kind and be brave.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    This may sound professorial, but please constantly self-actualise to see what drives you. Is it the adrenaline rush to appear before court, the sense of fulfilment to stand up for the underprivileged or the fast paced, action packed life of the corporate world. Please experiment and please switch, if it does not suit your personality and aptitude. It is a given that most law students will have an above-average IQ, but do not ignore your building on your EQ. Do as much internships as possible and please do not cast your mind in stone- be adaptable. Please remember, in the end, you will be known for the difference you make in the world and not what your first take-home salary was.   

  • Gaurav Vutts, Regional Legal Manager, Hindustan Unilever Limited, on being In-House Counsel, his time at law school, and his diverse experience

    Gaurav Vutts, Regional Legal Manager, Hindustan Unilever Limited, on being In-House Counsel, his time at law school, and his diverse experience

    Gaurav Vutts graduated in law from Delhi University, batch of 2003. Gaurav is presently working as Regional Legal Manager at Hindustan Unilever Limited and leads the East Region since January 2016. His in house experience includes Intellectual Property litigation, Brand Protection, Regulatory Compliances and leading the East Region as Regional Legal Manager. He has also previously worked as Criminal Lawyer specializing in Criminal Corporate advisory, appearing before Apex Court, High Court and Trial Courts. He had joined Hindustan Unilever Limited in Year 2011, supporting the Supply chain Legal, Reality and eventually led the subsidiary company Lakme Lever Private Limited and specialized in Franchising related advisory, IPR and Regulatory compliances.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His early life from Poultry Farmer to Lawyer to In house Counsel
    • His role at HUL
    • His experience in Criminal Law, IPR and related regulatory compliances

     

    Tell us a little about your early days, schooling and graduation.

    Since my father was a defence officer I studied in KV School all my life. There I interacted with people from every walk of life. Post schooling I joined the Maharajas College, Jaipur and passed out with BSC. After my graduation I appeared for UPSC and RPSC exams and spent considerable time reading about history of India, Economics, Geography, Public Administration. To fend myself I also was running small scale business of poultry farm at Jaipur where I had approximate 10,000 birds. Here I labored hard in the farm not only feeding birds but planting trees in the farm, plating green grass and doing masonry. I was involved in doing all the kinds of labour which a common man does, like building roads, making concrete walls, making the sheds for poultry farm. It is these tenets of life which made me think that I must read and practise law. My younger brother was instrumental in making a lawyer from a poultry farmer.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    The days in law school (in Delhi) gave me hands-on experience and exposure to diversity in culture, inclusiveness, collaboration and leadership. For our livelihood, we had to fend for ourselves including arranging for accommodation. During the law faculty days I stayed at Air Force Hostel located at Subroto Park New Delhi. It was a tremendous time where in the afternoon I use to attend the Law faculty and at night I used to work with GE Capital Services Limited as Process Associate located at Gurgaon. It was a dream time where I used to work twenty hours a day. Nine hours I used to work at the call center, the sleep for four hours in the morning, then attend classes in the afternoon. Apart from this, I also interned with Mr. Som Mandal, Fox Mandal and Co., Mr. Rajan Narain at Global Legal Associates. It’s here that I started to see the Supreme Court, High Court, Trial Court and Labour Law Tribunals. I used to sit through conferences with clients and lawyers and assist in marking pages, taking out case laws and even typing plaints, petitions, delivering briefs to courts, attending the courts and monitoring the court room board for item numbers.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    For me, grades are not important at all. What matters is hard work and honesty towards reading the law and understanding the subject.

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days?

    As a law student, Jurisprudence, Criminal Law, Constitution, Contracts, Arbitration and Procedural Codes fascinated me. I feel these subjects form the basis of a lawyer’s spirit. These form the first principles.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    Personally speaking, I had many mentors. I will just name them. During my law college days I attended the Raj Anand Moot Court as my younger brother Vaibhav Vutts was interning under Mr. Pravin Anand. I was impressed to see Mr. Arun Jaitley and Mr. Pravin Anand. I was in literal awe to see them. Later I became a member of the law faculty body called Students for the Promotion on International Law and further got a chance to meet these mentors. In law firms I was mentored by Mr. Raian Karanjawala who is again one of my greatest mentors till today. I also got to work with Mr. Siddharth Luthra, Senior Advocate, as briefing counsel and briefed him in countless criminal matters. I spent nights in his chamber to study law and give the ideal summary of the case to him in morning. Till today I am mentored by him. Apart from this I have had many individuals who have inspired me over the years like Mr. Gopal Subramanium, Senior Advocate; my father, Wing Commander Sunil Kumar Lal, ex-Indian Air Force Pilot; my younger brother Vaibhav Vutts, Advocate, who runs a law firm called Vutts & Associates; my wife Priyanka Vutts, among others, are true inspirational people to me. I was truly inspired by many great senior advocates during my briefing days and travelling with them outstation for cases with Mr. KTS Tulsi, Mr. Harish Salve, Late Mr. GS Sanghi, Mr. Ram Jethmalani.  In fact, I find inspiration even from my litigating lawyers located at every nook and corner of India stretching from South to North, East to west. They give me unquantifiable passion to read and lead.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    It is very important that a law student interns with lawyers. It makes his foundation strong. I interned with Fox Mandal and Co. and Global Legal Associates managed by Mr. Rajan Narain. It is here where I got true vibes of litigation. I was truly lucky to undertake an internship in these places.

     

    How did you develop this keen interest in criminal law and in legal advisory?

    I always had the real time craving to know the basics of all sects of law. Be it Contracts, Constitution, Jurisprudence, Legislative Drafting, Criminal law, Procedural law, etc. The constitution is the mother of all laws. It is the founding spirit for any legislation. All enactments flow out of it and merge in it. During my internship days and practice days I saw the sense of humanity in resolving criminal cases, making an innocent person get his rights in a court of law, a stimulating subject which is par excellence when it comes to human conscience, irrespective of money you make. This is a true humanitarian service, I believe. The good reading of Constitution of India made me realize how intricate criminal law is and it enchanted me more and more. Once I joined Mr. Karanjawala’s office, fate gave me a pillar to handle criminal law as he allocated the criminal department to me with a few senior lawyers in the firm. I appeared in all criminal law forums located across India and the turn-around was that in three nights, I appeared from Trial Court, to High Court and then to Supreme Court. I also learnt that IPR rights can be protected under the realm of law of crimes. In my in-house advisory I still lead when it comes to cracking my numbers in litigation and resolving intricate litigations under me.

     

    Please give our readers some insights on the leading Indian firms dealing in Criminal Law, IPR Law, and your recommendations for where and how to secure internships.

    There are quite a number of top quality criminal law firms dealing in corporate liabilities like Amarchand, AZB, Karanjawala and Co.

     

    Tell us about your work experience at Hindustan Unilever Limited as Regional Legal Manager and at Lakme Lever Private Limited.

    At the starting of 2011 I joined HUL as Assistant Manager-Legal, assisting the Supply Chain, Real Estate. It was a great learning curve for me. Here I learnt what leadership is and how important is governance. I got to work on some mega realty projects for the company and prepare legal documentation for the same in advisory with law firm. It’s here that my talent to align with lawyers played a great success and yielded dividends to the company. I got to work on heavy stake matters and stood victorious in them. After a brief stint, I worked with Lakme Lever Private Limited as legal Head. From deputing a young dynamic team, advising the business from part A to Z on nuances of law, and setting up the legal process, it was an amazing journey for me. I got to work with a real talented team there. I was thereafter given the eastern region of the company and it is here that I got to work on mega projects, deliver advisory to business and governance. It is one of the most rewarding experiences I have had so far intellectually as in house counsel. Seven years of legal practice and close to seven years of in house practice has made me a full-fledged legal personality now with fair knowledge to address any kind of legal issue/ advisory. Needless to state, you will still remain a student of law till the end.

     

    What general advice would you give our readers who aspire to stay at the top of their legal game?

    My view is very simple. Read more, research more, read the complete case laws and relevant enactments, work hard and be meticulous to facts of the case. Don’t draw inferences to attract immediate audiences to market yourselves by just reading some tit bits of legal provisions and gain part time popularity which may stand to your victory for few years but you will miserably fail to mentor young people, and not grow. Read the essence, pith and substance of law. This will make you a true lawyer and legal expert and a true mentor for people seeing you. The profession of law requires real time hard work and patience. Until the person does not do above aspects, he rusts gradually and fades away. Money will come as it’s a byproduct of excellence but for a lawyer the most essential building block is to mentor his immediate juniors too.

     

  • Murtaza Chherawala, Partner, CNS Juris, on starting his own firm, working with the differently abled, and his diverse experience

    Murtaza Chherawala, Partner, CNS Juris, on starting his own firm, working with the differently abled, and his diverse experience

    Murtaza Chherawala graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, in 2002. Prior to that, he held a degree in Commerce from Poona College. After successful stints with Supreme Caterers and Manas Resorts, and Surana & Surana Interntional Attorneys, he founded his own firm, CNS Juris.  CNS Juris is a law firm in Pune, practicing in the areas of Court Litigation, Dispute Resolution, Corporate & Commercial Laws, International Laws, Intellectual Property Laws, Property Laws and Land Laws.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at law school
    • His experience with CA firms
    • Founding his own firm

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? 

    I am a simple person and believe that commitment, quality and ethics are at the heart of all success stories. The legal field was not my first choice of career. In fact, I took up law as a back-up plan and to gain supplementary knowledge while I studied for Chartered Accountancy. My true interest and love for Law developed only after I started practicing, first with a law firm and then independently. I realized that there is no other profession which provides such close and diverse exposure to real life situations and people.

     

    How was your experience at law school? 

    I was trying to balance a full-time job with attending lectures. I was fortunate that Dr. Mrinal Raste and Dr. C J Rawandale, my faculty at Law school, accommodated and supported me. With such a tough schedule, extra-curricular activities were not an option for me. Also, legal education was not as dynamic then and opportunities were limited. Today though, I believe that if circumstances permit, students should participate in as many moots, debates and surely pursue some sport, to develop into well-rounded, confident individuals.

     

    What are your views on the importance and necessity of higher education? 

    Higher education and more importantly quality higher education gives an edge to new job seekers over graduates. In my opinion, one should pursue higher education after a few years of work. A Masters course should be approached like a research adventure for acquiring higher knowledge, rather than to acquire one more qualification for job prospects.

     

    What was your first job after law school? What lessons did it teach you?

    My first job after law school was at Surana and Surana International Attorneys, at Chennai. I learnt drafting, court craft, use of legal research software and many aspects of legal practice. I learnt how to find solutions, when none were readily available. I discovered how to handle my colleagues, both junior and senior, in a professional manner. I understood the nature of work in various departments of law and also how a law-firm worked. Most importantly, I developed my own unique vision of establishing a successful and ethical law-firm.

    How did you secure an appointment at Surana & Surana? 

    I was selected by Surana and Surana through campus interviews at Symbiosis. Initially I handled all the banking and consumer cases, in the Court litigation department. After about two years, I moved to Land & Property deals and also did work relating to Corporate laws. Alongside, I did a lot of research relating to many other areas of law and continued to enrich my knowledge base and skills.

    I missed the cosmopolitan and secular environment of Pune. My family, friends and networks were in Pune, I had a vision to fulfill and so, as Paulo Coelho said, “When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.”

     

    Can you recall the first time you appeared in a significant matter in court? 

    My first major argument is still my most memorable one. I was only 29 years old and was facing a 72 year old designated senior lawyer, in a Rs. 5.5 Cr. case before the Debts Recovery Appellate Tribunal, Chennai. I was representing a borrower against a bank, which is undoubtedly an uphill task. I had clocked about 200 + hours of research for this argument. The final order was a favourable one and the Bank lost the entire amount, which is quite rare in banking cases. After the argument and the order being passed immediately in Court, several Advocates walked up to me and congratulated me in the courtroom itself. The Hon’ble Judge also applauded me in the open court and announced to all the Advocates, “Court wars are fought in libraries, not in courtrooms”. This was also my first reported judgement. Basking in the glory of the moment, I could barely work for the next three days.

     

    You have worked extensively with firms specialising in chartered accountancy. Can you tell us about this field and the nature of work?

    A lot of what Chartered Accountants do is related to applying the laws set out for accounting, taxation and statutory compliances and reporting the violations thereof. Just like a Lawyer, a Chartered Accountant is also exposed to multiple businesses and develops the acumen to resolve complex business challenges.

    During my Articleship, I enjoyed Systems Audits and Management Audits, since these Audits focus on the macro-level challenges of an organisation. My work experience with Chartered Accountancy firms equipped me to handle legal matters involving intricate financial transactions.

     

    What motivated you to found CNS Juris? 

    After shifting to Pune in 2005, I wanted to start my own practise, since I had already worked for over fourteen years in different organisations. I had already visualized the kind of organisation I wanted to build and had a concrete plan in place.

    Originally, my firm started as Chherawala and Associates and evolved to become CNS Juris, with the inclusion of one Partner during 2010 and another during 2014. Currently, we practice in the areas of Civil & Criminal Court Litigation, Corporate Laws, Land & Property Laws and Intellectual Property Laws.

    We faced all the challenges of a newly founded legal practise, the biggest one being organising the investment for growth of infrastructure. Every three years, our entire savings were pumped back into the organisation.

     

    Can you give our readers some tips on how to approach a moot court competition and how to become successful mooters ?

    (Murtaza has been a judge at a number of national and international moot court competitions, including Stetson and Jessup.)

    I am really amazed to see the kind of preparation, research and study done by the students participating in Moot courts. While the research and analytical skills of the participants are good, many a time the candidates lack presentation skills. Rehearsing the arguments with practicing lawyers would help Mooters to improve the language used, organise the flow of arguments and filter out the unnecessary points. Voice modulation, pauses and body language are also very important, not just in Moots but also in real life litigation.

     

    Do you think law school prepares students for the real world practice?

    Only a few select colleges like Symbiosis and National Law Schools prepare students for real world practice. Co-curricular activities like Mooting, Internships, Research and availability of Legal Technology can enhance the students’ preparedness for the rigours of real world practice.

    You are a founder of a free legal centre for the disabled. What motivated you to set this up? 

    In Chennai, I was associated with two NGOs working for legal awareness and action, in the area of Disability laws. After I came to Pune, I had some time and decided to take the work forward. We started to offer free legal aid to the disabled, under the cell named “Horizon”. The Commissioner of Disabilities for Maharashtra is also based in Pune, which was an additional advantage. We have fought a few Pro-bono cases and created awareness through participation in many Seminars and Conferences. Sensitization of students and practicing lawyers about the legal aspects relating to the differently abled (disabled) could go a long way. As of now, there is a lack of awareness about this area of law.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Apart from the study of law, internships and additional qualifications, students must surely work harder on their soft skills. A decent level of expertise in Word, Excel, Power Point, Legal Research Software (at least two) and management software used by law firms are a must to start with. Your business communication, legal communication and behavioural skills shall finally decide whether you have an edge over others in this competitive environment. Also, if students are able to identify and decide their area of interest for future practice, they shall save a few years of experimentation and get a head-start in their career.

     

    What advise would you give fresh law graduates?

    It would be advisable for fresh law graduates to concentrate on enhancement of knowledge and quality of work, during their first five years of their career. Working with a mid-sized or large law-firm would be ideal for developing all-round skills and diverse experience, as they deal with a variety of clientele in multiple sectors.

    I sign off with, “When your Best fails to give you the desired results, you need to better your Best”.

  • Vikram Koppikar, Senior Legal Manager, TCS, on being In-House Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Vikram Koppikar, Senior Legal Manager, TCS, on being In-House Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Vikram graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, in 2000. He currently works with TCS and handles India and the MEA regions. He was engaged in the setting up of the first all women BPO in Saudi Arabia, which was the first of its kind. This involved interactions with the Labour Board as well as the Saudi Client. He has also been responsible SPOC for the takeover of an erstwhile Government IT Company – CMC limited, by TCS.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His experience in IP Law
    • His role as In-House Counsel
    • Working for Marico, McDonald’s, Wadia conglomerate, and M/s. Jehnagir Gulabbhai, Bilimoria and Daruwalla

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? 

    I would probably introduce myself, as the “Accidental Attorney”. I joined law college only because my friends at that time were joining the same. It was only upon attending law school, through the various lectures that I attended I realised, that I had made the right choice!

     

    How was your experience at law school? 

    I joined Government Law College (Mumbai), and did take part in the odd moot court competition. Through GLC’s recruitment process, I interned with and later joined, the law firm of M/s. Jehangir Gulabbhai, Billimoria and Daruwalla, one of India’s oldest law Intellectual Property (IP) specific law firm. The sheet variety of IP work, kept my interest going, even during my studies.

    You worked with a senior partner at a law firm on IP related matters. Can you describe the nature of the work you did? 

    I worked with the late Prof. Tehemtan Daruwalla, a true giant in the field of IP matters. He insisted that we always get our hands “dirty” in each matter, and ours was the only firm carrying out a manual (physical files) in the trademark registry (when it was allowed) to ensure accuracy of our opinions. In this tenure, Trademark search, opposition, Copyright oppositions (both at a registry and high court level) and patent drafting were all opportunities that I devoured with glee. A copyright case involving Mira Nair’s film Monsoon Wedding was a memorable case that I remember working upon.

     

    How has the advent of technology impacted the field of IPR law? 

    As Spiderman’s quote says “with great power comes great responsibility”, with strides in technology have arisen ways to counterfeit/ infringe such tech and consequently legislation which is struggling to keep up. For each “Paywall” Netflix subscription comes a “Bit-torrent” where you download the leaked “Game Of Thrones” episode. Of late, tech such as 3-D printing has also made counterfeiting that much easier. IP law, its relevance and furthermore understanding (I’ll touch upon that in my next answer) have never been more important.

    How did you secure a position with Marico? 

    I joined Marico, keen to try an in-house role. My work involved working with their R&D team, in the filing of trademarks, and assisting with drafting, search and opposition of patents. Most frequent were my anti-counterfeiting actions involving pan-India travel to ensure search and seizure of infringers of Marico’s intellectual property. I would stress here that both the knowledge of IP laws as well as the intent to act upon IP violations was markedly lower in those times, amongst police authorities than it is today and as mentioned in my previous answer, the proliferation of social media, technology has led to a greater cognizance of such offences in small town India.

     

     

    You have also worked with McDonalds India. How did this appointment happen? 

    I joined McDonald’s to be part of this global brand. Management’s mandate to open restaurants at a hectic pace led to exposure with business agreements, property laws, labour matters, taxes and of course litigation. It was interesting to fend various customer complaints seeking damages in lieu of rude behaviour by staff, or another filed by a parent whose daughter had received a Mickey Mouse with an Indian Flag with her “Happy Meal” thereby hurting his national sentiment! Was this a fall-out of the infamous Stella Liebeck case? I can only guess!

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LLM while you had a successful legal career? 

    Having had my brush with international legislation, dealing with an American parent corporation (McDonald’s), I decided to pursue my LLM in International, Commercial Law from the University of Durham (UK). I chose the UK, as common law as is practised in the UK serves as precedent for the Indian legal system. I further chose Durham, as this particular course had the right mix of international topics for an In-House career (in India). I would always recommend working for a few years before one opts for an LLM. This is because one’s previous (or future) career path should be supplemented by the LLM content that one chooses. Secondly, previous work experience will help you “value add” to the interactive class sessions, and examinations

     

    What are your views on the importance of higher education? 

    In my capacity as In-House Counsel of some years, I can vouch that each Indian corporate today, has some overseas business or funding. The importance of international commercial legislation, especially that of the EU, US and even China and Africa is crucial to have knowledge of. My advice to readers, is to first have a firm footing in the legal “stream” of their choice (IP, Tax etc.) and then take this footing further into the “ocean” that is international studies, to provide further impetus .

     

    How did you secure a position with the Wadia conglomerate? 

    I secured a position with the Wadia Group, through a common friend with Mr. Burjor Nariman, who was the then Head of Legal for the Wadia Group. The choice to continue In-House was a conscious one, as I by then realised the unique advantage that an In-House counsel holds in the management of a company (I will elaborate this in a subsequent answer).  The Wadia Group has some renowned brands such as Britannia Industries, Go-Air and Bombay Realty and the role offered a chance to work across these industries with a focus on litigation, customer complaints and property re-development contracts.

     

    What caused the shift to Capgemini India? 

    My experience with the Wadia Group focussed primarily on litigation and subsequently, was limited by the inputs I could offer to the senior counsels handling such high stakes litigation. When the Capgemini role of sole counsel came along, I grabbed it eagerly. My tenure saw Capgemini India (CGI) commence its “India Business” operations, which then extended into the Middle East leading to a plethora of business contracts. CGI then took over Ernst and Young’s India consulting division, which brought opened a floodgate of legacy litigation. My challenges as In-House Counsel were two –fold given the sheer volume and variety of work, and that I had previously never been attuned to the “IT Industry”. I can honestly say that this was the hardest time in my career and the lessons that I have learned in this period have helped me to this day.

     

    How did your appointment at TCS happen? 

    I was recommended to TCS by a previous senior, Mr. Debabrata Dutt. I currently am responsible for the Middle East and Africa geographies at TCS and handle services, licensing and BPO related contracts within these geographies. I was in charge of the take-over of CMC Ltd. an erstwhile Government owned IT Company by TCS. My crowning glory (so far) has been my role in aiding the set-up of the first All Women BPO services unit for a client in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia by TCS. I cite this example because, unlike other business transactions, this one was the first of its kind, and there was no template or precedent for the same. I was initially geared towards ensuring contract closure (as is the case with most In-House counsels). I realised that there were many “pitfalls” in ensuring successful project completion from issues including security (requiring clearance of the Burkha clad Saudi women, archiving video footage) and compliance (the Saudi personnel refused to handle transactions arising from countries such as Israel). Through my interactions with the Saudi Labour Board, I was able to highlight these challenges and obtain concessions/clarifications. In conclusion, not only did I aid the smooth roll-out of this prestigious project, but also a template was put in place, when a similar request came along from another Saudi Client. In closing, I would like to highlight that this set-up has since been visited by our Prime Minister Mr. Narendra Modi and the US First Lady Melania Trump, during President’s Trump’s visit to Saudi Arabia.

     

    What are the skills and qualities required to succeed as an in house counsel? 

    In the movie The Godfather, Robert Duvall plays Tommy Hagen, the counsel of the Corleone family, who is entrusted with some very unusual requests which he carries out with great patience and diligence. While a real life In House counsel may not get such unusual requests, he nevertheless has to be patient, diligent and protect business interests above all. Indian conglomerates today have stepped overseas and/or entered into diverse business operations and an In-House Counsel has to keep him/herself abreast with legislation both current and anticipated that may arise due to such venture. I remember Mr. Bharat Vasani (ex Legal Head; Tata Sons) mentioning how he underwent a technical training program to understand the DTH business at the time, the TATA group was entering the same (TATA Sky). On a personal level, during my McDonald’s tenure, I spent a week working hands on in a McDonald’s restaurant (serving fries, burgers) to understand the daily routine of the store and developing empathy to the store employee!

     

    In your experience, how is working in house different from working in a law office?

    An In-House counsel, unlike a law firm lawyer, has two masters, the Law and his CEO! This is because; an In-House counsel is required to be attuned to overall business interests and on some occasions, the whims of the management; from commencing litigation against an overnight friend turned rival or even developing a taste for your CEO’s favourite brand of scotch!

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Firstly, enjoy this time! The friends that you will make, will last you a lifetime. Secondly, be open to learning from various streams of law before circumstance requires you to specialise. Lastly, be always aware of trends not only in legislation, but the industry that you cater to. Legal services have changed as much as other industries, and as Richard Susskind predicts, it is going to change further yet!

  • Shruti Chopra, Associate, Morrison Cohen LLP, on IP Law, and studying at Berkeley

    Shruti Chopra, Associate, Morrison Cohen LLP, on IP Law, and studying at Berkeley

    Shruti Chopra graduated in law from University of Mumbai, batch of 2011. She then went on to pursue her Masters at the University of California, Berkeley – School of Law, specialising in Law & Technology, Intellectual Property, Privacy Law, Media & Entertainment. She began her career as an Associate with a full service law firm in Mumbai, India focusing on Intellectual Property and Corporate law. Prior to joining Morrison Cohen, she worked at a social enterprise start-up with a focus on devising solutions to complex legal and business issues, and with a civil society non-governmental organization leading policy and advocacy efforts for the organization at the United Nations. Since being admitted to practice in New York, she has also provided pro-bono transactional and legal services to low-income entrepreneurs and start-ups through Volunteers of Legal Service.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Pursuing the unique BSL LLB course at the undergraduate level
    • Studying at Berkeley
    • Her experience in IP law

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    In my professional capacity, I am a dual-qualified corporate attorney and specialize in intellectual property, technology and privacy law. In my personal space, I am a food aficionado, who has a food blog on Instagram and love to travel.

     

    What is unique about the BLS, LLB course and how did it contribute to your career in law?

    The B.L.S, or the Bachelors of Legal Science degree, is similar to the Bachelor of Arts degree offered at most law schools. It is a great way to introduce oneself to the legal system without being overwhelmed with the intricacies of it. While the learnings of law school only lay the foundations of one’s career, the B.L.S course with its emphasis of subjects such as logic, legal writing and political science ensured a smooth transition to the L.L.B degree.

     

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days? 

    Very early on I knew that I wanted to do something in the field of intellectual property law. This was, in part, because I come from a family that is very serious about its movies, and because it was (is) a field of law that is still developing, allowing you to be part of the process. Because of this drive, and the lack of opportunities to study intellectual property law before the final year of law school, I went to Harvard University for a summer to study the basics of intellectual property and legal writing. This was certainly a turning point, both in terms of academics as well as extra-curricular activities!

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    Unlike the norm at Government Law College, I never did semester or yearlong internships. Instead, I interned during the summer and winter breaks. While my first few internships were focused on getting a feel for corporate law, in my second year and onward, all my internships were focused on strengthening my background in different facets of intellectual property law. During the year, especially during my fourth and fifth year at law school, I worked as a research assistant to Madhavi Divan, who is an exceptional teacher and mentor. She was working on updating her books “Facets of Media Law” and the opportunity to contribute to her research is largely responsible for me heading to Berkeley for my LL.M., and for being deeply invested in new media and privacy law.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation in law? 

    My areas of specialization are intellectual property, technology and privacy laws. I selected intellectual property laws as an area of specialization in my second year of law school, and the rest followed as I made my way through law school and professional life. The most important factor, in my opinion, is finding something you are truly passionate about. A lot of people say that law is a very dry field, without much excitement. I beg to differ. If you look around, every aspect of our life is touched by law; it is about finding what excites you. For me, since I grew up on steady appetite of movies and television, I was always enamoured by the industry and always knowledgeable about it. Soon, with technology – whether it is mobile communications, software applications, social media platforms or user content – my horizon broadened. We spend so much our day working that it is important to find something that truly motivates and stimulates you, or you risk a burnout.

     

    Is an L.L.M absolutely necessary for a career in law? 

    The LL.M. degree is certainly not a requirement or necessity; it is, however, a good asset. My decision to pursue the LL.M. degree was based on three things – introduction to a different legal education system, access to people from diverse backgrounds, and the opportunity explore different subjects that didn’t exist in India at the time. I chose Berkeley since it was selective in the number of Indian students it enrolled, ensuring I would be interacting with people from different countries; I met people from 49 different countries. Berkeley also has a stellar faculty for intellectual property and privacy law.

    One should expect to benefit from an LL.M. if one has an open mind; the program will allow you to make friends that will last you a lifetime, expand your professional network, and widen your thinking and adaptability to different situations. The LL.M. program is not only a professional degree; if you allow, it can be instrumental in shaping who you are as well.

     

    Are there any commendable Indian institutions which you would recommend to a student pursuing an L.L.M, or would you suggest looking only at options abroad?

    Since the LL.M. degree is not a necessity, I wouldn’t recommend someone graduating from an Indian law school to pursue the LL.M. degree in India, unless of course if required to get into academia. The true value of LL.M. lies in its diversity of cultures, people and the law, something better accessed outside your own country.

     

    Tell us about your work experience at DSK Legal where you’d held the position of Associate.

    My experience at DSK Legal was absolutely wonderful. It was my first job after law school, and I couldn’t have asked for a better set of people to work with. For me, it was absolutely critical to work with people I could learn from, and working with Mr. Anand Desai ensured that. Even though my area of practice has always been related to intellectual property, and therefore everything from entertainment law to M&A transactions to trademark prosecution, DSK Legal gave me the opportunity to work on commercial litigation, to draft memos on companies act provisions, understand real estate transactions, and experience criminal trials. The diversity of experiences is important when you are new because it gives you the ability to view things in a comprehensive manner, and not in silos.   

     

    You’ve assisted The Walt Disney Company in the capacity of a secondee. What did your job here entail?

    My favourite childhood movies came from Rajshri and Yash Raj; I mentioned how films were integral to my childhood! That aside, DSK Legal gave me a multitude of opportunities to learn, and one of them was the chance to with the gaming division at The Walt Disney Company. My work here comprised of two things – helping the division comply with regulations and polices set up by the Burbank office (HQ) of the company, and advising the business and product teams on legal issues that needed to be addressed in new releases. This experience has stayed with me; it taught me the importance of the commercial aspects of a business when providing legal advice.

     

    Tell us more about Morrison Cohen LLP. How did you come to work here?

    My path to Morrison Cohen, LLP hasn’t been conventional – to say the least. Unlike most people, I moved to India after my LL.M., worked at DSK Legal for two years, and then moved back to the United States to take the bar exam and work here. Since I was transitioning between countries, I thought it was the opportune time to expand my horizons before heading back to law firm life. I worked with a social enterprise start-up and with a non-profit affiliated to the United Nations, while providing pro-bono legal services to small businesses, all before I began working at Morrison Cohen, LLP in New York. Once I was ready to move back to a law firm, I applied for a position with the firm, and less than six weeks later I was working as an Associate. The path was a long and winding road that involved varied experiences, lots of networking, staying relevant even while not being in the legal field, and a heavy dose of confidence in my abilities.

     

    What can you say are the notable differences in work culture in Indian and foreign/international firms?

    I don’t think I prefer one culture over the other – both have their pros and cons. The difference in working at a top tier firm in both these jurisdictions (and I would imagine over the world) is fairly minimal. However, depending on the type of firm you choose, your experiences can differ. For example, at a mid-size or boutique firm you will likely have more responsibilities. Obviously, the US being a more mature market, firms are more streamlined in the way they function, which makes day to day life a little easier. That said, Indian law firms allow you cross-over access i.e. a corporate associate can get experiences in litigation, or a real estate associate can work on a purely corporate matter; something like that would rarely happen in the U.S.

     

    Tell us about your current work profile as an Associate at Morrison Cohen LLP. 

    Since I work in the corporate team but specialize in intellectual property law, a regular work day is diverse. I could begin my day working on an intellectual property and technology due diligence for a corporate transaction, follow that with a trademark application filed with the USPTO, and end with drafting a privacy policy for a start-up. In between, there is working on commercial agreements, both standalone and for transactions. This diversity allows me the opportunity to understand multiple business types, and how aspects of law apply to each. As I said before, it is important to be excited about the work you do, and the assortment of matters ensures that it never gets boring!

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now? 

    My decision to become a corporate lawyer focused on intellectual property, technology and privacy was based on the fact that the industry is ever-changing, and ever-growing, and therefore, always challenging. While a decade ago people were coming to terms with the advent of social media like Facebook and user generated content like YouTube, today it has moved towards security and privacy concerns of big data, impact of blockchain and alternate currencies like bitcoin, and the importance of developing and monetizing intellectual property assets in business. Ten years from now I imagine the industry will still be as dynamic, and by association, my practice, as challenging and exciting. I see myself as a lawyer to individuals and businesses grappling to understand how the legal ecosystem applies to the advancement of technology.

     

    What is your message to our readers?

    As clichéd as it may sound, believe in yourself. You are always going to be your best advocate, and if you can’t believe in yourself, you can’t expect anyone else to. In our profession, trust and confidence is everything – only if your seniors, peers and clients trust you and believe in your abilities are you able to progress. Always hustle, get up and move ahead; there is no substitute for plain hard work. Lastly, don’t be afraid to reach out, to help and be helped – find mentors, be a mentor, volunteer your time, say yes to a challenge, and allow yourself to grow. And since I believe in practice what you preach, if anyone wants to reach out, I am happy to talk and help in any way I can – I can be reached at schopra@morrisoncohen.com.  

  • Nazneen Ichhaporia, Partner, ANB Legal, on IPR Law, and her diverse experience

    Nazneen Ichhaporia, Partner, ANB Legal, on IPR Law, and her diverse experience

    Nazneen graduated in law from University of Mumbai, in 2009. She is a Partner with ANB Legal since 2014, and heads the Private Equity, M&A, Intellectual Property Rights and General Corporate practice of the Firm. She has expertise in matters relating to venture capital investments, acquisitions of unlisted and listed companies, joint ventures, cross border transactions and structuring, and external commercial borrowings. Nazneen has, in the past, also been a part of various capital markets transactions like Initial Public Offer, Rights Issue and Qualified Institutional Placement.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • The Indian IPR regime
    • Her time as Partner at ANB Legal
    • Her experience thus far

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers?

    I come from a family of accountants. My family has not known lawyers for far and wide in our circles. My parents, just like their ancestors had instilled in them, have taught me the philosophy of ‘good thoughts, good words and good deeds’ which is the mantra I try and follow at all times (well, most times, so to speak).  I am the only child and hence have been pampered quite a bit. But that has never prevented me from working hard and going full throttle to achieve what I want. Right from my school days, and through college, I have been very good at academics as well as at various extra-curricular activities. I secured the 7th Merit Rank in Maharashtra State at the HSC exam. I was also the recipient of Maharashtra State Open Merit Scholarship for three consecutive years. I pursued a Diploma in German language from the University of Mumbai in 2004, and secured 2nd merit rank. I was also the recipient of various prestigious awards from my college, such as “Lights Of Podar Award” and the “Principal’s Special Award” in the year 2005-06, for outstanding contributions to various co-curricular and extra-curricular college activities.

    Can you tell our readers how the combination of B.Com and LLB has been beneficial for you in your career?  

    Actually, I started with the three years law course after completing my B.Com, as an interim arrangement while I studied and prepared for my MBA entrance exams.  However, within the first six months of starting the course at Government Law College, Churchgate, I was hooked on to it completely, and decided that this was exactly where I wanted to be, rather than pursuing any management or other degree. B.Com definitely gives you the edge over others, when you have to understand the commercials/financials involved in a transaction, specially an investment or M&A deal. And a better and quicker understanding is the key to help you negotiate and drive the transaction in a particular manner, with the shortest possible turn-around time.  

     

    Have you ever considered pursuing higher education? 

    In the field of law, your work is your education. I do not think even the most proficient lawyer loses the tag of a student till he/she hangs in his/her boots. Higher education is surely beneficial to a certain extent, but what you learn from practical exposure is what guides you best. To implement what you know and to put it to practice, giving the best way out to the client, is always priceless!

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school?

    Reading and languages have always been my passion. I have dabbled in both French and German during my college days, in addition to Hindi, Marathi and Gujarati, which I can understand and speak quite fluently. Before joining law school, I had an avid interest in debating, and had won quite a few competitions for my college. This continued in law school, by participating and helping to organize various moot court competitions. I was also an active member of the Social Service League. Pistol shooting is another activity very close to my heart, though I don’t get much time for it these days. I helped coordinate and form the pistol shooting team for our law college, which was ranked among the top five teams from the Mumbai University.

     

    How did you land your first job?

    One of my good friends, Jayom Shah, who had then recently started practising as an Advocate, helped me with getting my first job as an intern at Kanga & Co., under the senior Corporate Partner, Ms. Preeti Mehta. My work started initially with legal research, opinions and helping out with various legal audits/ due diligence for private equity and M&A transactions. This gradually progressed to learning how to draft and negotiate complex legal documents for such transactions. Since the transactions involved parties across India, I started travelling quite a bit for work, which in turn helped me become more and more independent, and also culminated into my present love for travelling and exploring new places.

    I had a brilliant team when I used to work in Kanga & Co. My colleagues are my friends even today. We discuss legal issues among other stuff and coming from diverse practise areas, help each other whenever need arises. I have a lot to thank this firm for, and am ever so grateful for having landed there with my first internship. The four years that I spent there, from 2007 to 2011, without any doubt, had a very significant influence on me and helped shape up my legal career, leading me to where I am today.

     

    Can you recall the first time you argued a significant matter?

    Well I am not a litigation lawyer, so my arguments have been in the form of negotiations for various corporate transactions. Having said that, I did appear quite briefly in court, when I did a short stint in the field of litigation with a senior lawyer, Mr. Hakim. He put great faith in me and coaxed me to appear in one of his matters before the Hon’ble Bombay High Court, which I did, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

     

    Can you describe the nature of your work as a young advocate? 

    I have already spoken on the type of work I handled as a young lawyer in the corporate department in Kanga & Co. Being an intrinsic part of various transaction teams while working here, and also getting the benefit of personal interaction and guidance from the Senior Partners of the Firm, helped me to get an inside edge, which I believe has taken me a long way. When I left Kanga & Co., I was again fortunate to be working with another brilliant lawyer, Ramesh Vaidyanathan, at his firm Advaya Legal. I got to learn a lot working with him as well, especially the subtle nuances of dealing with various types of clients, both domestic and international, and always delivering to their satisfaction. He has this amazing knack for simplifying and explaining complex legal issues, to arrive at the most effective/practical solutions, which I have tried my best to imbibe.

    My biggest challenge as a young lawyer, was to step out of my sheltered cocoon, and create an identity for myself, to stand out and hold my own right amidst a brilliant and dynamic set of peers and colleagues. This healthy competitiveness helped me in keeping on my toes during those initial years, and not slackening my pace, which I believe is crucial for all young lawyers. Whatever the odds, you have to keep going at all times if you want to create your own niche.

     

    How did you come to be a Partner at ANB Legal?

    ANB Legal was the start-up legal venture of one of my good friends, Ashish Bhakta, who is one of the best lawyers I have known. I first met Ashish during my days at Kanga, where he was a Partner when I started my internship. Subsequently, he shifted to London, U.K. and was working there with one of the reputed international law firms. However, due to personal reasons, he had to relocate to Mumbai around the end of 2013. His offer to practice independently with him and his newly started firm ANB Legal, came at just about the right time for me. At that time, I was looking at shifting my practise to part-time independent consultancy, which would give me the discretion and flexibility to manage and devote half of my time for certain family and business interests.

    Today, I am back to full-time legal practice, and am the partner in charge of the corporate practise at ANB Legal. As a part of my role here, I devote equal importance and time to grooming my colleagues and interns, as I do to executing work, and that’s one of the things that I enjoy the most. At ANB Legal, we strongly believe that whoever comes to our Firm has to learn, and benefit from our knowledge and experiences. Our principal and senior associates now handle a lot of independent work, however I make it a point to always be available for them, whenever they require. I also try and keep pace with new knowledge management practices, and strive for constant improvement in all aspects of our work.

    What is your opinion of the Indian IPR regime?

    I think one of the biggest challenges facing our present IP laws, is to keep up with the fast evolving, and ever-changing technology. Blogging, Facebook, twitter and other social media, as also various apps and web-portals for conducting your business online, have put forth a completely new sphere of intellectual property and intellectual property users, that were unheard of earlier.  Owning, managing and exploiting your intellectual property in such scenario, without compromising it, has itself become a challenge. Our IP laws need to be reviewed and updated frequently, to be in sync with these real-time developments and trends. The fact that we have realized this and are initiating steps in the right direction, is evident from the recent move of the Government, by introducing the online filing process for registering Trade Marks and revamping the Trade Mark Rules a few months back. More such updates need to be initiated pro-actively.

     

    Can you give our readers some advice that will help to increase their chances of getting published?

    Good content, written from the heart and well researched is always appreciated. Do not hesitate in sharing your thoughts and views, merely because they are not in line with the popular opinion. Explain your rationale with logic and illustrations, wherever possible. You never know when a good appreciative reader takes your content higher.

     

    In your opinion based on your experiences, does law school prepare a student sufficiently for all the things expected from them after graduation?

    No, academic knowledge gained from law schools is necessary, but not entirely sufficient. It needs to be supplemented with practical training and exposure, through various internships and projects.

     

    Do you think that methods of alternate dispute resolution such as arbitration are the future of dispute resolution in India?

    I think that arbitration as the most effective mechanism of alternate dispute resolution, has great potential and future, specially in India which is a fast growing economy, and likely to be one of the major business hubs of tomorrow. Since I am mainly involved in corporate law and transactional work, I don’t think I am the right person to comment on the required reforms as such. However, I can surely say that I feel the need for an effective ADR mechanism more and more, while being involved in an increasing number of cross-border negotiations and global transactions.

     

    What is your opinion on the recent proposal to allow foreign law firms to operate in India? 

    If it’s going to be a level playing field, competition is always welcome. We should have faith in ourselves. I don’t see any reason to block them from the legal field in India, specially since they already have been here in other professional fields like tax and accountancy. Professionals who are good, will anyways manage to keep up with the changing times, and don’t really have to worry. Other impact will have to be seen. Whichever way, it should definitely benefit the clients. Let’s wait and watch!

     

    How do you remain updated about the developments in the numerous areas of law that you deal with on a daily basis?

    Unlike our seniors, we have the advantage of the digital and online world, which makes this task much much easier than the herculean process that they had to adopt to gain knowledge and updates. Today, you have access to various knowledge-share hotlines, websites, apps, etc. which help you keep on top, with minimal effort. Also, conferences and news-letters and magazines on various legal issues and trends are good options to help keep up.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Be true to yourself and the profession, and in turn, the profession will surely give back to you, sooner or later. Don’t have a closed mind and be open/receptive to new opportunities and ideas. You never know where it may lead you. Last but not the least, don’t be intimidated and lose yourself in the jungle out there, forge your own path ahead.  Keep your faith and do not give up, ever!

  • Swapna Sundar, CEO, IP DOME, on Intellectual Property Rights Law, and starting her own firm

    Swapna Sundar, CEO, IP DOME, on Intellectual Property Rights Law, and starting her own firm

    Swapna graduated from Tamil Nadu Doctor Ambedkar Law University, in 2000. She then went on to pursue her Masters from Brussels School of International Studies, University of Kent, in 2002. She is presently the Principal strategist and CEO at IP DOME – IP Strategy Advisors. She co-founded the company with partner, Mr. Raghavendra Ravi, a CEO coach, consultant and expert at operations and supply chain. She has also been teaching European and US patent law at the NALSAR PG diploma course on Patent Laws, in addition to giving guest lectures at different institutions, including the Asian College of Journalism (ACJ), Symbiosis Law School, Vellore Institute of Technology (VIT), IIT-M and Anna University. She also sits on the IP Advisory Committee of the Tamil Nadu Technology Development and Promotion Centre (TNTDPC), an autonomous not-for-profit society of the Government of Tamil Nadu and Confederation of Indian Industry (CII). The TNTDPC helps formulate policies to guide use and protection of IPR in Tamil Nadu.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Starting her own company
    • Her experience in IPR
    • Her teaching experience

    Can you tell our readers about your firm?

    At IP DOME, we work with corporates, MSMEs, research institutions and individual inventors to take their inventions and creations of the mind – books, illustrations, musical works – to the market. We are a multi-disciplinary team, with Hariprasad – a hardware engineer heading operations, Dhanya – a biotechnologist heading analysis, Karthick handling Business Administration, and Prashant – an electronics engineer spearheading market expansion. In addition to being an excellent supply chain expert, Mr. Raghavendra Ravi is a formidable chemist with more than a cursory interest in perfumes and oil. Clients get to meet experts from their area of interest even at the first meeting, besides meeting me or other lawyers at the firm.  Therefore, my work at IP DOME is extremely interesting and I look forward to rewarding discussions and new challenges every day. In the past ten years, we have also learnt how to leverage the opportunities afforded by the bustling Indian market. I am happy to say that our Toolkit for the UK IP Office ‘The IP Smart Approach to Doing Business in India’ has earned us a place as strategic partners of the UK Institute of Exporters’ Doing Business in India Guide.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field? Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    No, I don’t come from a family of lawyers. My father was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army. My uncle was a respected public prosecutor at Vellore, but by the time I became a lawyer, he was already semi-retired. I think my interest in law came from my desire to work with people, and I found the logical process of thought required to build arguments fascinating. I do research and teach credit courses on technology law, and then interface between technology and rights.

     

    Did you participate in extracurricular activities such as moots, debates, etc. in law school?

    I did participate in a couple of moots while at the Madras Law College, but I did not find it very exciting. I have participated in debates while at the Madras Christian College, where I pursued my Bachelor’s degree. I started working in a legal firm from my first year after college hours. I found that very rewarding. I had the opportunity to support a protest by farmers opposing shrimp cultivation, which was destroying the land through inundation of sea water. My task as a (trainee) lawyer was to ensure that the protestors – mostly women and children – were not harmed. Eventually, they were taken to a school where they were made to wait till remand. I took the opportunity to ensure they got water and food, and also taught them a preliminary class on Article 21. Interestingly, the arresting policemen participated avidly in the discussions, pointing out that their human rights were being violated by long hours of ‘bandobast’ duty and unpaid overtime!

    Later, when I was studying for my ML in International Law with International Relations, I worked, as a paralegal, with Monsieur Nicolas Angelet, a lawyer specialising in refugee rights. The cross-cultural work provided me with insights into European governance models, history and notions of nationhood, that I may otherwise not have learnt.

     

    What was your first job after law school? 

    My first job was that of a junior lawyer, in the very firm where I had interned. I suppose they liked my work and found me competent.

     

    Can you tell us about being a teaching assistant at the University of Kent where you deliver lectures on British constitutional law and British Human Rights law?

    I studied for my ML at the Brussels School of International Studies (BSIS), which is the European School of the University of Kent at Canterbury. My professor Dr. Wade Mansell, liked my papers on International Relations, where I had explored constitutionalism and colonialism, and how many of the most volatile regions of the earth had been distressed colonies. My papers on the TRIPs agreement were also appreciated. The University of Kent offered me a seat for Ph.D. and a teaching assistantship to help pay the tuition.

    Constitutional law in the books, and Constitutional law on the streets, or in the courts mean different things to different people. UK has no written Constitution; it is derived from many different sources. My background as a lawyer, and my interest in Constitutional law were advantages, since they were looking for someone with practical experience. The British Human Rights Act had been promulgated only in 1998, and not many people were familiar with it. I had an interesting experience giving a lecture on the Act to the Metropolitan Transport Police. They subsequently wrote a very good feedback about my lecture.

     

    What got you interested in the field of intellectual property?

    Mr. Kamath of Kamath & Kamath strongly recommended that I should register as a Patent attorney and I thank him for that. A patent agent drafts and files the patent application on behalf of the inventor, or the applicant. The role of the patent agent is to capture the invention in its technological brilliance, and fence it with appropriate legal mechanisms. The claims are the most important part of the patent application, although it forms, in general, about 10-15% of the content of the application. Today, my work is largely strategic. I work with our patent engineers and illustrators to communicate a strategic agenda to the application being filed, bringing to it market insights, technology trends and international strategy.

    My exposure to International Economic Law and the macro-economic scene relating to technological advancement, market share, banking and the global development agenda were crucial factors in driving my attention and interest towards IPR. The WIPO course on IP strategy that strengthened my understanding of the connections between Intellectual Property resources, competitive advantage and sustainable growth. It is very interesting to keep track of changes at local and global levels in areas of economics and market, and the volatility keeps us on our toes.

     

    What caused you to leave teaching and take up a job at a law firm?

    It was always my intention to work. Giving lectures in new and emerging areas is interesting, but I don’t have to grade papers, or guide research. I admire the dedication of law professors, who not only prepare interesting lectures for students, grade papers, and advise on reports, they also find time for their own research and publications, while supporting the institution. I don’t think I could have done it.

     

    You are currently the CEO of IP Dome Strategy Advisors. What is the nature of your work? 

    As CEO, my job is more administrative than legal. I put out the fires, manage the resources, oversee the operations (without stepping on the toes of competent colleagues), and act as a point of communication between the directors and corporate operations. As a small organisation IP DOME also depends (largely) on me to provide brand visibility, develop markets, reach out to senior associates in India and overseas, and provide expansion plans. As we look to expand into Singapore and USA in the near future, I am also expected to drive the project.

    India is a net importer of technology. I don’t see this changing in the next decade or two. The role of the IP lawyer in India will not remain focused on inventors and research institutions. The IP lawyer or IP firm will have to evolve into market specific entities with wide ranging capabilities, including negotiation, contract management, statistical modelling, data analysis and data management.

     

    What advice would you give those of our readers who want to pursue a career in the filed of intellectual property?

    It is interesting to note that while young lawyers are interested in IPR, not many are interested in science and technology, or mathematics. I suppose that is why they became lawyers in the first place! We are always looking for whip smart lawyers who are also good in scientific disciplines. Going forward, I foresee a good demand for lawyers with knowledge of science and market or economics and statistics. As the field evolves in India, it would be important to keep track of the changes in IP law and IP regimes across the globe.

    Engineers talk differently from lawyers; biotechnologists and medical professionals use jargon that is incomprehensible to us. Data analysts have a different perspective on an course which we are contemplating. You would be benefited if you learn how to work with people from different scientific disciplines. When contributing your skills or ideas to people from other domains, it helps to be familiar with the jargon or terminology of their discipline. I would also advise learning to read and interpret graphs, trend charts and data models.

     

    What is your opinion about the importance or necessity of higher education?

    ML at BSIS provided me with an understanding of the market as a powerful agency of amorphous actors, which is nevertheless organised and well-structured. This perspective lends me the ability to identify and re-orient tactically to economic transitions. Higher education, according to me, should enhance competency or skills in a chosen area of work or interest. A lawyer who studies for Master’s with basic knowledge of law supplemented with practical experience, stands to gain the ability to define her role more finely, and align herself with market requirements. Higher education must either drive better understanding of the domain of operations, or help the lawyer to reach professional goals. Choose wisely, both on the basis of what you want to study, and where to study.

     

    You are a part of the Ethics committees of various institutions. What does this position entail and what kind of matters do you have to deal with?

    I am a member (legal) of the Institutional Human Ethics Committee of the National Institute of Epidemiology, an ICMR body, and a member (legal) of the Ethics Committees of IIT-M, SRM Medical College and Hospital, the National Institute of Siddha and the SRM Institute of Medical Sciences. An ethics committee is an independent body consisting of healthcare professionals and non-medical members, whose responsibility is to protect the rights, safety and wellbeing of human subjects involved in a clinical trial and to provide public assurance of that protection. As member (legal) I keep track of whether the research protocol ensures that the rights of the patients are not violated; at the same time, I also see that the rights of the researcher to conduct research on human participants is not unreasonably curtailed. The other members of the committees look to the lawyers on the committee to ensure that laws are not violated, and that institutions, researchers, contract research organisations and sponsors of trials do not avoid their obligations. We study and comment on the trial protocol, suitability of investigators, adequacy of facilities, significance of number of participants, compensation, consent and waivers, reporting on adverse events and termination of trials.

     

    What are the measure we should be taking to empower women further?

    In general, we can empower women by promoting gender balance in recruitment and promotions, and by driving a culture of diversity. In India, this includes people from different communities, as well as different states. It is important to realise that if Indian companies fail to recruit and retain talented women, they will only exacerbate the acute shortage of competent personnel. It is necessary to support women by encouraging conversations around gender equity and professional goals in a co-working situation. Women feel valued when their self-assessment of technical competencies, and professional relationships meet and align with the organisation’s assessment of them. An organisation that values its women, promotes a culture that encourages openness, accessibility, collaboration and community, allowing women to contribute with greater confidence. Empowerment also means promoting women to positions of leadership and decision-making.

    At IP DOME, we strive to empower all team members by encouraging a focus on health and wellness, both mentally and physically. We aim to create a workspace and culture that empowers and inspires members to achieve professional excellence. Whether men or women, we encourage team members to ‘be yourself’. This promotes a transparent and balanced company culture. Having a family should not deter either men or women from pursuing a fulfilling career; this means we are prepared to enable flexibility in work schedules and help with education expenses. As a woman CEO, I tell women colleagues to develop a stronger political self, questioning the straitjackets that society may insist on. They should be able to think and act as competent professionals and leaders.

     

    Do you think law school prepares students for real world challenges?

    The purpose of law schools is to prepare students to pass the Bar Exam and to be responsible and ethical members of the legal fraternity. But I would not say that they are sufficiently prepared for a successful career in law, when they graduate. While a graduate from a good school may meet the knowledge and competency criteria, other crucial skills will have to be learnt from school activities that students participate in, or the internships they take up. Important skills include case management, communications, non-electronic research, drafting, analysis of law and facts, strategies for resolution, and a whole host of client management issues including evaluating potential client engagement, maintaining client trust, arriving at budget and terminating client relationship. In addition, account management, interpersonal skills and working collaboratively – challenges in working any industry, will also have to be learnt by the new graduate.  

    I believe that graduates who allocate sufficient time to planning their careers, and understanding their capacities and competencies stand a good chance of succeeding in their chosen profession. The planning should be a combination of vision and intense, detailed planning. There is one quality that appears to differentiate a successful lawyer from the rest – the ability to be tactically flexible in achieving a strategic goal!

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    IP DOME entered the market with a clear strategy to promote IP Strategy in India. India’s unique ecosystem – high growth coupled with infrastructural inefficiencies and delays in bureaucracy and judiciary, and the large cost of controlling infringement by many small and micro-unites – call for special measures and strategies. In the last 10 years, we have earned a reputation for strategic IP services. In fact, the UK IP Office commissioned us to write a Toolkit: IP Smart approach to doing business in India, which is available for free download on our website, which has received good feedback.

    The challenges have been in terms of maintaining focus on our core expertise, developing and nurturing a strong network and attracting top talent. Yet another challenge is enabling and encouraging visibility and recognition for our subject matter experts, as many fora recognise only me as a resource person! Brand building requires considerable investment in terms of time and resources from the company as well as the team members, and as we provide highly specialised services, we also invest in education and awareness campaigns in colleges, schools, SME and entrepreneurship development institutes, self-help groups and industry bodies. The experience has taught me that deriving value from IP in India requires tactical planning and strategic deployment of resources from the time of conception of an idea to the launching of it in the market.

     

    How do you maintain a work- life balance?

    Personally, my method is to apply my mind to many different projects simultaneously; my second book on the Marina pro-Jallikattu Protest – Occupy Marina! will be released in September. I believe that in a balanced life, we must accord equal priority to family, career and other interests that make us who we are. There are a few well-recognised means of ensuring a good work-life balance for the team. The following have worked well for us:

    1. We know we are running a marathon, not a sprint. Endurance as a team is more important than a short burst of speed resulting in burn outs, frustration and high stress levels.
    2. We know we are human, and have limitations. Sleep deprivation, high stress levels, no time to decompress, irregular hours – all these result in less than optimum health. We prefer productive hours to long hours.
    3. Delegation and redistribution. In a sense, we communicate that no one team member is indispensable. This helps us to let people off to take care of family or health matters. When work is distributed evenly, the team feels less burdened, and friendlier towards each other.
    4. Take the help of an organisational consultant. Our organisational consultants, Dr. T.T. Srinath and his colleague, Mr. Sadasivan, encourage a balanced outlook to life, and ensure that we are constantly aware of our current state of stress as individuals, and as members of a team.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    OK, here goes: Don’t watch TV. There are other ways to keep yourself informed, and a million things happening around you that will provide you with meaningful entertainment, future visions, opportunities and choices. Don’t get hooked to social media. You will only keep hearing what you like; social media channels, use filters to amplify what you respond to, and filter out what you don’t like. Keep track of trends, but don’t be too quick to specialise. If you have interests in areas like science or fine arts, now is the time to explore. After ensuring good grades, spend more time building relationships. Great marks won’t help you in practice, friends and seniors will. Your free time would be excellently spent if you read a few books, among them, 1984 (George Orwell), The Trial (Franz Kafka), The Social Contract (Jean-Jacques Rousseau), The Handmaid’s Tale (Margaret Atwood), History Will Absolve Me (Fidel Castro), My Name is Red (Orhan Pamuk), Serious Men (Manu Joseph), India after Gandhi (Ramachandra Guha), Clarence Darrow for the Defence (Irving Stone), Midnight’s Children (Salman Rushdie) and One Hundred Years of Solitude (Gabriel Garcia Marquez) – in no particular order.

     

  • Prasanth V.G., Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on his time in NUJS, and his litigation experience

    Prasanth V.G., Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on his time in NUJS, and his litigation experience

    Prasanth V.G. graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata in 2005 and thereafter joined Delhi office of Paras Kuhad and Associates. He is currently a Partner at J. Sagar Associates, Bangalore. He primarily specialises in dispute resolution and has an experience for twelve years. He has been handling matters relating to Company Contracts, Specific Relief, Intellectual Property, Banking, Infrastructure, Energy, Consumer Protection, Infrastructure and Arbitration. He has a vast experience in the drafting of pleadings, applications and evidence briefing for several counsels in numerous matters, and has also done many arguments including both final and interim arguments at various fora.  

    . In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His law school life at WBNJUS, Kolkata 
    • His experience of a litigation lawyer at a firm
    • The essentials of a good commercial litigation lawyer

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I will not shamelessly claim that I am a “Super Lawyer”, but I am certainly one who constantly dreams of being a “Super Lawyer” whom society looks up to. I am a Partner at the Bangalore office of J. Sagar Associates and my area of work is dispute resolution.  I graduated from the first batch of NUJS, Kolkata in 2005 and started my career at the Delhi office of Paras Kuhad and Associates in 2005. In 2010 I shifted to Bangalore and worked for a short period of ten months at KLaw. In April 2011 I joined JSA Bangalore and I have been here since then. My father’s father and my mother’s great grandfather were lawyers, but both of them had passed away much before I was born and therefore I cannot say that I am from a family of lawyers.

     

    How was your experience at NUJS?

    To be frank, I had never before come across in my life an ambiance as fiercely competitive as was present at NUJS. The first batch of NUJS was a unique pack of some of the most gifted brains and talents. The levels of competition we had were naturally very intense. The fact that we were guided by a personality as towering as Dr. Madhava Menon, who had the unique ability to inspire his students to always dream high and strive, was the most remarkable feature of our NUJS life. He would constantly motivate all of us to very deeply believe that anything less than excellence is self-derogatory. I feel truly blessed to have studied law as a part of the first batch of NUJS, which had tremendous levels of ambition and zeal and was constantly very high on energy and drive.

    However, one tough question that my senior partner recently asked me was whether in the last twelve years anyone from our batch has really become a legend for his or her age. I found it very difficult to answer. Everyone is working at decent designations to keep their pride happy and earning decently to keep their families happy, but whether that is all the NUJS dream was, is a soul-searching question. Hopefully, I will have a clearer and happier answer after the next twelve to fifteen years. One may take until the age of 35 to settle down, but if he does not have the big break between 35 years and 50 years, one may rather reconcile that it was all for the making of just another office-goer. The hair has already started the tendency of greying here and there.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school?

    Amongst the various academic subjects, I had maximum interest in Constitutional and administrative laws. I also deeply enjoyed the laws of contract, specific relief, property, statutory interpretation, etc. Preparations for and participation in both internal and external moot courts was considered to be a very important exercise by our whole batch. I also had my share of regular mooting experiences in those five years, including representing India at the Stetson moot court at Florida. Exploring and re-exploring the city of Calcutta on every Wednesday, which used to be the weekly holiday, was one of the most joyous part of our life. NUJS life was the first phase in my life which introduced me to a truly national ambiance. It was a remarkable experience getting to know and making friends with the peer coming from various different cultures and sensibilities across the country. All these were matters of great excitement at the impressionable age.

     

    Can you recall a few interesting instances in your litigation career?

    I will first answer the question on preparation. More important than how I routinely prepare, is how I think one ought to prepare. I am therefore making a general analysis and not any self-proclamation. One message I learnt from the great masters I had the occasion to meet or work with, is that every court appearance, however small or big, must be treated as a break by a litigation lawyer. It always helps to prepare for a matter beyond your brief for any given day’s appearance. Trying to put a lot more effort into every matter than what may be immediately required to attend to it, will over a period of time, make you very resourceful.

    While in my initial days at PKA Delhi, I was given a lot of exposure in DRT and DRAT matters. One set of matters that Mr. Kuhad made me in charge of was a series of cases filed by various banks and financial institutions against a pharmaceutical company, which was our client. I still remember the strenuous manner in which I went about labouring to put together the written statements and various interim applications on behalf of the company, trying to bring out some defence or the other in each matter, which otherwise appeared to be very open and shut against our client. It was a lot of learning on the job which gave the conviction that no matter can be given up as defenseless, if you are willing to go into the depths of documents and do some creative work at linking or de-linking ideas and points.

    Another Delhi matter which stands out in memory is an international arbitration which went on for about five years, in which we were representing an American company. What makes it memorable is the long days and nights spent reading through, deciphering and connecting thousands of pages of disorderly papers which used to come in heavy cartons from Dallas. There were several note books full of hand-written notes which I made while trying to organize the defences in the matter, trying to frame questions for cross examination, etc. We eventually lost the matter, but it was a rewarding experience for one’s faculties to go through the grill it demanded at a very early stage of career.

    Another interesting memory is that of a partition suit before the Delhi High Court. We were representing the Plaintiffs. We briefed Mr. Arun Jaitley for the first hearing and he got us an ex-parte order of appointment of a local commissioner to inspect and make an inventory of extremely valuable family heirloom items including gold, silver, diamonds, ruby, paintings, carpets etc., which according to our side, had been hidden by the Defendants inside the family house in Kolkata. I flew along with the local commissioner to Kolkata with the order and we went to the concerned premises the next morning along with the local police. The events which took place at the premises were nothing less than dramatic. After a lot of initial resistance and thereafter reluctant cooperation, the Defendants insisted that there was no express order to forcefully open the locked safes and almirahs. So I flew back to Delhi that evening while the local commissioner stayed over in Kolkata. The next morning we again mentioned and brought up the matter before the Delhi High Court and got a specific order to open all the safes and almirahs. With that order, I again flew back to Kolkata that night and we again went to the premises the next morning to get it enforced. While I do not want to go into the details, since both parties thereafter amicably settled the matter, it was a unique on-the-floor experience which stands out in memory even now.

    A more recent interesting episode was arguing on behalf of a sugar manufacturing company against local sugarcane farmers of a village before the Deputy Commissioner, Bellary. The farmers were refusing to provide sugarcane to the factory due to the alleged arrears in the payments of the previous sugar seasons. I had to argue that under the law all the farmers falling within the reserved area necessarily had to supply the cane to my client, irrespective of any past dues, for which they had already invoked the recovery mechanism. The farmers were led by the local MLA and were also represented by their lawyer. Our side had already made a statement against the intentions of the local MLA before the Karnataka High Court in a related matter and that had got reported in the newspapers before my visit to the village to argue the matter. When I reached there with the company representatives, I was amazed to see that a huge community hall was reserved for the hearing and about 300 farmers had gathered and the atmosphere was volatile. The local MLA met us as we were entering the building and started shouting at the company representatives. There were only a few policemen and they could not have handled the situation if the mass had taken the law into hands. The arguments were like making public speeches since that had to be made from the stage before the full crowd using the microphones. I was reminded of my school and college debating and mooting days. When I started arguing in English, the crowd started shouting that I should argue only in Kannada. The Deputy Commissioner who was a very dynamic young IAS officer suddenly took complete charge of the situation and demanded that the crowd shall not protest since I was not very fluent in Kannada. There were detailed arguments and counter-arguments between me and the farmers’ lawyer and the crowd patiently heard everything. The MLA also respected the fact that legal arguments under the Sugarcane Control Order and Essential Commodities Act were going on and remained silent watching the whole proceedings from the front row. Once the hearing was over, the crowd started getting agitated again, demanding that the order should be pronounced immediately. Many people came forward and started to stage a gherao, when the policemen came forward to make way for the Deputy Commissioner. In the process, we also made our way out and left for the hotel.

    There are many other interesting episodes I can narrate, but I am stopping here as this answer has already become very lengthy.

     

    How did you face the work pressure?

    In a way, everything in the profession of law, and not merely being in law firms, can be demanding. But I will always say with the fullest pride and conviction that JSA is a bliss.

    There are two very helpful ways to handle pressures in this profession:

    Firstly, you should try to know in detail each matter you handle. Unwilling or unenthusiastic participation without trying to be on the top of everything in a matter can make the situation very painful. Please also understand that you cannot mentally dislike or fight anything and then conquer it. You can conquer something only by most genuinely loving it. Comfort and ease are directly proportionate to your familiarity with the matter at hand. Your familiarity with the matter is directly proportionate to the time, attention and nurturing you give to it. Therefore much of it has got to do with the mind-set. If your mind genuinely aspires for heavier responsibilities, it will work wonders. If you decided to join law and you have progressed to a stage where there is no going back to engineering or medicine or anything else, then you might as well love your work on the subject than keep focusing on the exhaustion it causes.

    Secondly, avoid as much as possible, the intake of people-related negativity. It only takes away time and energy unnecessarily. Stop judging others. Stop telling yourself how imperfect or unjust others are. Stop also fearing that someone else will take away what you think is due to you. Do not let your mind dwarf you. Do not be a constant complaint-box indulging in shadow-boxing. The world has been, is and will remain unfair in varying degrees. There is no perfect world that has ever existed. While we all should work towards an ideal world, we should also remain realistic. After all, when you decided to join law, did you not know that you will interact with all sorts of people in life? Do you think a Jethmalani or a Nariman or a Venugopal or a Salve was made because they dealt all along with only the nicest of human beings? I am certain they would have dealt immensely with rogues, scoundrels and crooks in their fabulous journey as lawyers. So remain a good human being to everyone, without losing energy over the fact that an ideal world does not necessarily exist around us. A change in the mind-set can instantly take away your pains and bring a smile.

     

    A litigation lawyer in a corporate law firm is in the minority. What are your experiences holding this unique position?

    That is a very interesting question. I have to tell you three things in response:

    Firstly, in the litigation circles in general, you will find a lot of people who are cynical about non-litigation work and are unable to appreciate or respect the practice of corporate or transactional laws as real lawyering. I feel sad for those who sustain the said mentality. Let me tell you in no uncertain terms that law is not all about disputes. Law as a profession was derived from the requirements and needs of the society. If today’s society or economy mandates that a lawyer has a distinct space in a bank or an insurance company, who are we to deny it and claim that a lawyer is only for the court rooms? Therefore do not live in a self-created illusory world of bald denials.

    Secondly, we also need to burst this false and unfounded myth that most of our premier law schools are not serving the society since they are primarily catering to the needs of the corporate world. How many law graduates are created every year in this country and what percentage of them can all the corporate law firms and companies together recruit? Will Amarchand, JSA, AZB, Trilegal and all the other top law firms together be able to recruit even 1000 fresh lawyers in a year? If I am not mistaken we are creating not less than 50,000 new lawyers every year. If you wish to write off the largest majority of new lawyers who add to the already over-crowded court rooms and wish to find fault with the micro-minority who get corporate placements, the problem is really your inability to see the plain and simple reality. Further, I am also willing to concede that my friends on the corporate side helping the business of a company to be set up or helping a company with its project finance is doing as much, if not more, service to the society as is done by me or others in the court rooms.

    Thirdly, to specifically answer your question, I believe there is a very unique space for a litigation lawyer in a firm which primarily handles non-litigation works. A litigation lawyer is essentially a story-teller. He always has a narration to make. His clients come with narratives. His files are full of narrations. He reads his case laws to extract a dictum emerging out of divergent contentions placed in the background of a factual narration.  He reads his statutes looking for “the scheme of the law” and in the said process goes back into the social context or philosophy of law also goes forward into the social consequence of the written words of law. He is constantly preparing to articulate a narration in writing in his court pleadings. He is constantly selling stories to the judges. There is therefore an inner voice that starts communicating with you as a litigation lawyer, which I think can be synergised well even with non-litigation work. I truly believe that this mental process can tremendously help you creatively contribute to the work your colleagues are doing even in the non-litigation spheres. You can, not only deal with a contract when it runs into a dispute but can also assist your colleagues with appreciating a contract in a certain narrative form, concept and structure from its formative stages itself. You can assist your friends with providing legal opinions from various interpretative possibilities. According to me, a new work culture has to emerge which appreciates that a litigation and a non-litigation lawyer have a lot to work to do in tandem at every stage of a deal. Instead of seeing practise areas in isolation, synergies should be developed and maintained at stages when a contract is being drawn up, when a certain structure is being designed and when clauses are added in developing the said structure.

     

    What are the most important characteristic one needs to develop to succeed in the field of law? 

    Everything which works for one person, need not necessarily work for another. One needs to find his or her own answers and approaches through a constant process of enquiries, observations and self-analysis. There can however be a few very general guidelines, which possibly work commonly for the vast majority. In that general sense, I can always say a few things like one must constantly work on his language skills, on his physical and mental energy levels to sit for long hours of work, on his ability to carry the people around you together, on his approachability and availability to those who you service etc.

    But what according to me should form the most important characteristic or hallmark is the ability to proportionately mix the right amount of humility with the right amount of confidence, without either of it coming at the expense of the other.

    Humility is a must, or else you will never be a constant learner. You may be a first rank holder in 10th or 12th, but do not come to law with the same approach with which you thought of academics earlier. There would have been a certain amount of comprehensiveness or finality to anything you dealt with in your school before joining law. That is just not the case with law. Do not think that law is all about the syllabus you have in each subject in your class. For example, you may have just one semester to complete the Evidence Act, but let us bow down to the fact that it takes a life time to know the Evidence Act well. You may have just two semesters to deal with the whole of Company law, but it is again a lifetime affair to know it well. So, the legal education in law schools is only an introduction to the larger world. All along the law school as well as while in the profession, there is a constant requirement to bow down before the enormity of the subject and also the eminence of the great masters around.

    However, this humility shall not come at the expense of your confidence. The study and practise of law is also about the ability to take one’s own positions. I can tell you about my batch from NUJS. Throughout NUJS our batch debated human rights, child rights, farmers’ rights, tribal rights, women’s rights, prisoner’s rights and the like. However, our batch turned out to be one of largest contributors to corporate law practise. How does something like this happen? This happens because essentially you are developing a talent. You are developing the confidence of a person to go into details of any subject and take one’s own stand. Many times, Dr. Menon would engage the class in discussions based on some newspaper article instead of statutory provisions, and would yet create a confident lawyer out of you at the end of the session. Therefore please remember that while you respectfully carry the much-needed facet of humility, you must also confidently be able to believe that even if the best counsel in the country appears against you in a matter, you will do a good job and will not run away. If he can do it, so can you. Can’t you? Think about it.