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  • Shubhangini Rohatgi, Deputy Manager-Legal, Mahindra, on studying in London, IT Law, Contracts, and her diverse experience

    Shubhangini Rohatgi, Deputy Manager-Legal, Mahindra, on studying in London, IT Law, Contracts, and her diverse experience

    Shubhangini graduated from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, in 2007. After having worked for five years in the IT and Telecom Industry, she decided to pursue higher studies and thus, completed her LLM in Corporate and Commercial Law from Queen Mary, University of London, in the year 2013, with specialization in Cyberspace, Privacy and Information and E-Commerce laws. Her forte has been Commercial Contracting with a focus on the IT (Software) sector. She is currently associated with Comviva Technologies Limited (a subsidiary of Tech Mahindra), as a Legal Counsel handling reviews and negotiations of commercial contracts along with providing general advisory as well as advisory related to employment matters. She has previously worked with Oracle India and British Telecom.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • The Indian legal education regime
    • Studying in London
    • Her experience in IT

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a transactional lawyer, having worked in the field of Information Technology and Telecom for close to a decade. Quite contrary to the profession I’ve chosen for myself, I am an introvert at heart, and a not-so-social butterfly. But that has never deterred me from moving ahead in my career.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My Mother! She always wanted me to do something different. As a matter of fact, I was known to be a very argumentative child, as my father always observed and never failed to highlight, a quality which later helped me decide my future plans. My parents, being from the medical and teaching fields, encouraged my elder brother and me to pursue an unfamiliar path. Around that time, in the late ’90s, the usual career choices were either medical or engineering. My brother opted for hotel management, a career decision which many questioned, but supported by my parents, he proved himself in that field and is now doing very well in the hotel industry. When my time came, in early 2000, I did not wish to take up the regular courses, and of course had to follow in his stead, and thus chose between Law and Journalism. It’s a decision I am very proud of today.

     

    Would you say that the teaching methods here and abroad are vastly different?

    It would not be correct on my part to decide the level of difference in the teaching processes in India and abroad. Foremost reason being, that there is a vast difference in taking a course at an under-graduation level and post-graduation level. It was in India that I learnt the basics of education, and which brought me to the stage that I have reached. As part of my Masters’ degree in Law, I got the opportunity to be taught by acclaimed professors who were authorities in themselves. The focus of the professors is on imparting a practical sense of understanding rather than bookish knowledge. I am sure the same mechanism is being imbibed by faculty in India as well, making lectures more and more interactive. Unfortunately though, I have learnt the hard way that a Masters’ degree in Law, even from a prestigious international university, is not equivalent to an MBA. So, it is your basics which must be absolutely strong, and I believe, India has enough law colleges of repute which focus on the same.

     

    How significant do you think internships are for law students? 

    Internships must be made an integral and mandatory part of the law program starting from the first year itself. It helps in determining your likes and dislikes and paves the way for deciding which field to enter in the future. Of course, no one’s stopping you from choosing a different path even after! During my law school, I interned with several law firms, as well as with independent lawyers. It was because of this one internship with a Delhi based law firm in my fifth year which helped me get my very first job with British Telecom, a multi-national telecommunications company headquartered in UK. While I was interning I got a flavour of contracts, and got to know about the various terms which form part of contracts. It was a simple exercise of comparing two draft versions of a contract and highlighting the areas of difference. It may sound like an effortless job, but for a person still in law-college this was a very important piece of work assigned by a senior at the law firm. So I had to give it my best shot. In the process, I read through the entire contract, word by word, and few terms from the contract (which we call “boilerplates”) got etched in my mind (so much so, that even after eleven years, I still remember the name of the client whose draft it was, but for confidentiality purposes, will not pen down here). This simple piece of work helped me get my first job with a top MNC, while I was still in final year.

     

    Did you have any mentor or guiding figure during your formative years as a lawyer?

    I am a first generation lawyer, so it was not that I could rely on a lawyer in the family for deciding my career path or even understanding the nuances of law. My parents have always been my guides and mentors, and any and all decisions that I take, are taken giving due consideration to their advice imparted to me during my formative years.

     

    What are your fields of specialization? 

    My field of specialisation is reviewing and negotiating commercial contracts, more particularly software contracts. By way of qualification, I have specialised in e-commerce, privacy and data protection and cyber laws. It was during the initial six months as trainee at British Telecom that made me realise that commercial contracts were my calling. As I have primarily worked with Telecom and IT companies, it was an obvious choice to take up privacy, cyber laws and e-commerce as subjects of specialization given the fact that these are still considered niche and up-coming fields in India.

     

    Having worked in firms like British Telecom and Oracle India, what would be your advice for job seeking aspirants?

    From a value perspective, I feel that employers seek to engage with people who are sincere and committed. Unfortunately, integrity is a facet not seen in many. No matter what the situations and circumstances are, one should not deviate from the value of integrity. It goes a long way, and you will be remembered as an honest and truthful soul. From a work perspective, one should choose a career/job which one truly enjoys doing. Ultimately, it is your life and you alone should be responsible and accountable for the direction it goes in.

    I find myself fortunate to have gotten the opportunity to work with big names like British Telecom and Oracle. But, it wasn’t an easy job. One has to be focused and driven by passion to achieve something. My first six months at British Telecom, which was my very first job, was about preparing an online contract repository, which quite literally involved typing/copying clauses from PDF versions of contracts and pasting them on an online tool which was developed for creating an online repository of contracts. It may seem a dull and monotonous piece of work (and which quite frankly it was!), but it really helped me understand contract terms and conditions – just imagine the wide range of clauses I would read day in-day out.

     

    On what basis would you hire an intern?

    First and foremost, the person deciding the selection should keep in mind that an intern is still a student, and should be treated as one. He or she comes with a passion and is full of vigour.  Having said that, the key quality that I would look for, while selecting, would be the individual’s enthusiasm and eagerness to learn. I firmly believe that one may not know all, but with a learning bent of mind, one can achieve anything. The other quality I’d look for in an intern would be a sense of commitment and dedication. Not that I would want my interns to slog the entire day, as I am also a firm believer of having fun at work, but, such fun should be accompanied by serious commitment towards work.

     

    How do you stay updated on the latest legal developments?

    I regularly read the newspapers, and articles from various legal news websites to abreast myself of the latest updates and developments. Also, as my husband is a litigating lawyer, we often have dinner table discussions around various topics.

     

    What do you like to do when you’re not working?

    I like to read. More than reading, I like to collect books and articles. Although I may not get the time to read much, I feel content in the fact that I have something to rely upon.

     

    Any word of advice for our readers?

    The key to real success is happiness and contentment. I believe in the fact that though commitment and dedication is an essential element of climbing the ladder of success, the most important one is being happy and enjoying the work you do. If you enjoy your work, you are happy, and if you are happy, then dedication and commitment will reflect in your demeanour, and success will automatically follow you.

     

     

  • Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore, in 1999. Soon after, he started work with Shah Desai Doijode & Phatarphekar.  He then pursued his LLM, with a focus in Corporate and Commercial Laws, at Bond University, Australia, where he achieved academic distinction when his name appeared on the Dean’s List.  Upon completion of his LLM he returned to India where he worked for DSK Legal (formerly Andersen Legal India) and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices.  He now has his own firm, Universal Legal.  His areas of expertise include Real Estate, Corporate and Commercial, Medical, Intellectual Property and Media. His articles have been published in various newspapers and magazines.  

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at Luthra & Luthra
    • Starting his own firm
    • Being a first generation lawyer

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

    I have always wanted to be a lawyer. And being a first generation lawyer at that made it all the more challenging. 

     

    Tell us a bit about your time at NLSIU, Bangalore.

    Studying law was challenging as the methods adopted in NLSIU were different. It was not lecture-oriented but discussion-oriented. Students were expected to read before coming to class, so that a healthy discussions could happen. It was an initial shock to me coming straight out of school to this. I come from an all-boys school, hence interaction with girls on campus was a pleasant surprise. Further, the faculty included stalwarts like Dr N R Madhava Menon, Dr. N. L. Mitra, Prof. S. V. Joga Rao, etc. which gave us perspectives of law beyond our imagination. Also, we had practicing lawyers coming and sharing their experiences with us , which allowed us to have practical insights to law.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    Yes, I did take part in co-curricular activities. I participated in a few moot courts—although, with rather unsuccessful results, I should add. I helped the institution organise several conferences.  The highlight was, when I led a team to organise an international conference on Human Rights in association with Interights. The conference was attended by 40 odd judges including Chief Justices from across the world, including Dr. A. S. Anand, the then Chief Justice of India.

     

    What were you areas of interest during your legal education?

    I was interested in doing Corporate Law. However, when I got into practical world and started working, real estate and succession planning became my forte. In fact, I have also authored a book on real estate called Layman’s Guide to Property Transaction Rights.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    We need to simplify the laws and legal writings so that a common man can understand it. I consciously wrote my book in a language other than English, to make it more accessible. Further, I conduct legal workshops and lectures through various fora to make people understand the same.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    Unless you want to get into academics or work abroad, pursuing further studies is not required. It’s better to dive into the big bad world headfirst. Practical experience is the best teacher.

     

    How did you keep up with Bond University’s academic rigour? 

    It was very exciting as you got to meet with students from across the world, which was not possible in India. It was a melting pot of diverse cultures. It was a confluence of various legal systems. The university expected very high standards of academic performance from all its students. The faculty was very approachable and friendly. We used to have lunches and drinks together and learn more outside the class than inside it.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at DSK Legal and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. 

    DSK Legal, through its managing partner Anand Desai taught me how to apply law to suit the clients’ requirement. The aim was to provide the client with the most appropriate solution. At the Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, I learnt to work against stiff timelines. The body of work was varied but mainly concentrated on Real Estate and Media.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I did not have a mentor. I think it’s essential to have someone to look up to and guide you during the initial phase of your career.

     

    How did you come to be the Founding Partner at Universal Legal? 

    I was one of the first few recruits of Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, in Mumbai. This enabled me to get insight on how to establish a law office. This got me thinking, if I can do it for someone else, then why not for myself. We are a full service law firm. At the firm, we tried to incorporate all that we admire about reputable Tier-1 firms, and add a personalised touch to it. Also, we did not want to sit in office and idle our time. It was clear that people have to work long hours if there is work on the table. But if there are days, when there is less work, you are not required to sit in office. We believe in five day weeks and promote a healthy work life balance.

     

    Do you consciously focus on building a specific body of work? 

    Yes we do.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you have faced in your career so far?

    The challenges are to constantly get work in the firm and keep abreast with the developments happening in the field of law. With the laws changing so fast and being adapted to new scenarios, we have to be on our toes.

     

    How do you deal with the pressures associated with your position?

    If you enjoy what you are doing, then there is no pressure.

     

    What qualities and achievements do you look for in potential job applicants/ interns at Universal Legal?

    The person should be willing to learn and have the basic knowledge of law. The person should have the ability to find the law and solution.

    Can you describe the process that goes behind writing?

    There is no processes as such. It’s the knowledge that we gather along the way gets translated into the writing.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Reading and doing research. Also, by trying constantly reinvent myself

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Just be yourself and enjoy what you do.

  • Ameeta Duggal, Partner, DGS Associates, on studying at York, working at AMS, and starting her own firm

    Ameeta Duggal graduated in law from Campus Law Center, Delhi University, in 1991. She started her career with Mr. Ashwini Kumar, former Minister of Law and currently the special envoy to Japan. She then worked briefly with Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff before joining Associated Law Advisers. Ameeta was awarded a British Chevening Scholarship by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to study at the College of Law, York from 1996 – 1997. Thereafter she worked briefly in the London office of Clifford Chance, one of the world’s largest law firms before returning to India. Ameeta founded DGS Associates in 2004.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • The legal industry in the ’90s
    • Working at AMS
    • Winning the British Chevening Scholarship by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a somewhat unconventional lawyer who has always tread the unchartered path. There has been no planning that has gone into charting my professional growth. This has helped me in exploring various areas of law, which may have been lost to me had I proceeded with a predeteremined growth trajectory. I do not believe in compartmentalising my practice areas and have tried to explore various aspects of law. I started my professional career as a pure litigator and have continued to keep litigation as one of my practice areas irrespective of the fact that over the years I have moved to a completely different line of practice, being my trade laws practice, which I started in 2008. I believe that my strength lies in drafting and negotiations rather than arguing in Court. While I am immensely passionate about my work, I ensure that it never deprives me of my love for travel so I strive to make my work complement my travels to the greatest extent possible.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    I studied law from the Faculty of Law, Campus Law Centre, Delhi between 1989 and 1991. In those days, Law was a residual career option since majority of the law students were writing their Civil Services exams. There were just a handful of us who were there to pursue law as a career option. The others just wanted to have a Plan B should they fail to clear the Civil Services exam or such other options.

    Having come from an all girls’ college, Lady Shri Ram, life in he Delhi University campus was an experience with a varied mix of students. One of the incidents that has, however, stayed with me is from a class in Negotiable Instruments. In my first semester, one of our Professors had asked us a question pertaining to the bouncing of a cheque and I remember getting up and saying that “my common sense tells me…” The professor told me something that I have never forgotten. He said that we must always remember that law is not about “common sense” but what is provided in the statute. Over the years, I have often been reminded of this saying and how true it holds.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation in law? 

    Specialisation in a given field of law is a fairly recent practice in Law. During our days at the Law Faculty we neither specialised in any specific area nor were we required to intern. Those who belonged to a family of lawyers may have spent time interning. But the rest of us had not seen a lawyers’ chamber till the time we started to looking for work. Accordingly, there were no areas of specialisation but we had areas of interest. I was always interested in contractual and corporate laws. We, however, did not have the option of International trade laws as a subject.

    I personally do not conform to specialisations. I have always been open to assisting a client with all areas of law. The only distinction I draw is between civil and criminal laws and I have stayed away from criminal law in all my years of practicing law. Other than that I have worked on varied assignments, including environmental audits, project financing, mergers & acquisitions, International commercial arbitrations and litigation (both as a Government and private counsel). It is only recently, that I have started focusing more on International trade and mergers & acquisition as my preferred areas of work.

    While on the issue of specialisation, I would like to share one of my experiences at Clifford Chance when I was working with them briefly. One morning we received a fax from a client with some four to five questions, including queries on tax and securitisation. The fax was shared across three floors depending on the areas of  law involved. This was in my initial week at Clifford Chance. Having worked in India for a few years by then I was somewhat surprised since in those days, a client query like that would have come to our table in India and we would have responded to all of them, more like a single window clearance. In my opinion, it is more comforting for a client to go to a single person for advice rather than being sent from one team to the other.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation? 

    Unlike today, when students spend considerable time interning and gaining practical experience, for us studying Law was essentially an academic exercise, which guided us through the legal fundamentals and taught us what and how to look for the answer to a query received from a client. However, what we learnt at the law faculty was far removed from the real world practice. Objectively speaking we cannot be taught how to be a lawyer sitting in a classroom. Legal practice can only be learnt standing in a courtroom, sitting in a board room negotiating across the table or sitting across a Government authority proposing policy changes.

    This is where I owe a lot to the chambers of Dr. Ashwani Kumar (including my gown, which traditionally is presented by one’s senior) with whom I worked for almost a year. We used to be paid pittance in those days but the experience we gained was immense. Dr. Kumar was in those days a standing counsel for the Delhi Electricity Supply Undertaking (DESU), one of the biggest litigators in the Delhi High Court. On any given day we had at least ten to twelve cases listed in the High Court and we had no option but to start arguing from the very first day. Credit is also due to the judges who encouraged freshers to seize the opportunity and argue rather than seek an adjournment on the ground that the senior lawyer was unavailable. I have had a very special hearing before a Division Bench of Justice B.N. Kirpal (former Chief Justice of India) and Justice Sunanda Bhandare, who coaxed me into arguing a petition in the very first month of having joined Dr. Kumar; guiding me through the arguments and eventually dismissing the petition in my favour. Those were days filled with excitement and exhaustion but the thrill of getting a good order from the High Court was priceless. I learnt to be a lawyer overnight.

     

    Tell us about working at a Tier-I firm such as Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff.

    Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff is  undoubtedly a sought after firm now and also in those days when it was not so huge. I had the privilege of working directly with Pallavi Shroff and her team, I realised in my first few days there that I was not meant to work in a big law firm. I tendered my resignation within weeks of my joining that firm to move to a start up firm, Associated Law Advisers (ALA), which was still getting established in terms of office space. I spent almost eleven years with ALA and left only to start my own law firm.

    ALA is where I grew as a lawyer. We started as a small team of four lawyers (two partners and two associates). Each one of us supported the other and we learnt to do everything on our own – from filing to researching to drafting to appearing in courts and before arbitrators and to do large sized acquisitions, legal and environmental due diligences. My first acquisition was when Whirlpool acquired Kelvinator. I learnt as we moved through the acquisition and all credit goes to my partners, Mr. O.P. Bhardwaj and Ms. Lira Goswami, who never hesitated in giving us complete charge of a client file while keeping a broad check on the deliverables. I owe my growth as a lawyer to my years in ALA.

     

    Tell us about winning the British Chevening Scholarship by the Foreign Commonwealth Office.

    Applying for the British Chevening Scholarship was almost an accident. My then senior partner, Lira Goswami, mentioned the scholarship while we were waiting for our matter. From Court I went to the British Council to collect the form only to learn that I had just a day to submit it. Of course, I never expected to be selected but I did get an interview call. The interview panel comprised two faculty members of the college of law, York, a senior counsel from India and a representative of the Foreign Commonwealth Office. The counsel posed some direct questions on the various provisions of the Companies Act. After having fielded a few questions I remember telling him that as a lawyer I am aware which legislation I need to check but I was not aware of each and every provision of the Companies Act. The intent was not to be rude but it was an irrational expectation for a young lawyer to be familiar with more than 500 provisions of the Companies Act. I do believe that this response got me the scholarship.  

     

    How was your experience at College of Law, York?

    We were a group of twelve lawyers from all over India who were sent to the College of Law, York. Most of us were travelling outside India for the very first time and we were indeed an excited bunch of young lawyers who landed in York. The course was very thoughtfully conceived with an amazing faculty. We forged new friendships, not only within the group but with other law students at the College and with our faculty. The friendships have continued and we also continue to be referral partners for each other.

    What made our days at the College of law most memorable and fun filled is the fact that we were all practicing law already and had the security of having a job waiting for us back home. That sense of security eased the pressures and made the entire programme a huge learning experience. We got an opportunity to work with some of the biggest law firms in London.

     

    Which is the ideal time to do an L.L.M?

    From my personal experience,  I would recommend pursuing LL.M. only after having gained some work experience. I believe a LL.M. programme will be far more beneficial and focused if pursued after a few years of practice.

     

    Please elaborate on your work experience at Clifford Chance.

    The scholarship offered by the Foreign Commonwealth Office comprised two sections. First was a programme at the College of Law, York and second was a work stint at the law firms selected and allotted by them. I was sent to Clifford Chance as part of that programme. Working in a huge law firm like Clifford Chance, which at that time was the biggest law firm globally, was an experience in itself. It gave me the confidence to be able to stand on my own in the midst of an ocean of lawyers. Although I was offered a role in the firm, I longed to return to ALA and declined the offer. I have not regretted my decision ever as I do not think I would have evolved into a risk taking lawyer that I am today if I had worked in the secure confines of a large law firm as opposed to a small boutique firm like ALA.

     

    What or who motivated you to take the leap of faith to found your own law firm?

    DGS Associates owes its existence to ALA and the work culture that we imbibed there. The sense of self sufficiency and independence instilled by Mr. Bhardwaj and Lira gave me the courage to move out and start my own firm. Having worked with ALA since the days when the ALA office was being first set up, I was already familiar with the grind that setting up of a law office entailed. However, the thrill of starting one’s own practice is unparalleled.  

    Although I moved out of ALA with another lawyer there, Niti Sudhakar, we never really severed our ties with ALA. This was easy since we did not try and leave with any existing client of ALA. We moved out without any announcements and started afresh. Admittedly, those were challenging times as we had no continuing client. However, our friendship gave each of us the strength to persevere and that friendship continues to be the central pillar on which DGS stands even today.

     

    With regard to DGS Associates, what is your vision for the firm?

    At DGS, we pride ourselves for being completely relationship driven, be it with our staff, colleagues or clients. We are a small firm with a very congenial atmosphere. We would want to continue with that. We see ourselves as a well entrenched boutique law firm where the client comes never to leave. Our clients treat us as part of their management and we are happy to be in that space. We work with huge corporates as well as mid to small sized companies and individuals. We promote start ups and have always advised them basis the understanding that if they ever get funding they will pay our legal fees. The virtues of strict timelines and economies are deeply entrenched in our work culture and we never miss our deadlines. DGS has a very different work culture where associates are expected to act responsibly and independently. The stress is on timely delivery and quality output rather than the number of hours that they put in at work.

     

    Give us a brief capsule of the life of a partner and your average working day experience.

    True to the spirit of DGS, we try and maintain a balance between our work and personal lives. While we are at work, the office functions almost like a library with very focused work but we try and shut office in good time so that we all can head back home to spend time with our families. Without compromising on our work commitments, the partners also ensure time out together. Increasingly, there is lesser time available with our travel and work commitments but we always make an effort to optimise our time off. The firm has a policy of all lawyers lunching together so as to be able to get to know each other at a personal level.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    I can only say that as budding lawyers give your profession all you have as this is the time when you have the energy and enthusiasm to focus entirely on work. Be open to doing all kinds of work at your work place. It gives you a better appreciation of the work that is happening around you. Most importantly, I always encourage budding lawyers to gain some experience in litigation since you cannot be a complete lawyer  without knowing how your judicial system works and how the judges think when dealing with a given dispute.

     

  • Fred Rooney, Attorney-at-Law, on being Fulbright Specialist and Global Advocate for Justice

    Fred earned his J.D. from the City University of New York’s (CUNY) School of Law in 1986.  In 1998 he returned to CUNY Law to direct a “unique public/private partnership” that offered a network of support and resources for CUNY Law graduates committed to increasing access to justice through their solo and small firm practices. The New York Law Journal, New York Times, Legal Times and American Bar Association Journal have highlighted Fred’s successes and bar associations and law school faculty and administrators across the US rely on Fred’s work when designing their own post-graduate programs.

    In January 2010, Fred was awarded the 2010 Father Robert Drinan Award by the American Association of Law School’s (AALS) and on February 5, 2010, he accepted the American Bar Association (ABA) Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services’ 2010 Louis M. Brown Award for Legal Access, which was awarded to CLRN. The Brown Award recognizes innovative programs that meet the legal needs of those who do not qualify for legal aid yet still aren’t able to afford typical legal fees.

    In June 2013, Fred completed a ten-month Fulbright in the Dominican Republic where he launched the first law school incubator outside of the United States.  Three months later, the American Bar Journal named Fred a “2013 Legal Rebel” and recognized him as “the Father of Incubators”.

    On February 5, 2014, the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs (ECA) and the Institute of International Education’s Council for International Exchange of Scholars (CIES) added Fred to its roster of Fulbright Specialists.  Since October 2014, he has traveled to Pakistan on four occasions to conceptualize an incubator for recent Pakistani law graduates.  Fred was in Islamabad on April 26, 2016 to take part in the formal launching of the first incubator for lawyers in Asia.  He is currently an adjunct faculty member at Texas A&M University School of Law.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being Commissioner of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities
    • His engagement with Community Legal Resource Network (CLRN)
    • His experience thus far and plans for the future

    Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law, amidst the many options that you had?

    After graduating from college, I was employed as a social worker and English instructor for immigrants.  During my years working with immigrants, I was able to see how difficult life is in a foreign country where immigrants are not always welcome.  Many of my clients/students were victimized by discrimination and racism.  I realized that to be more effective as an advocate for the most marginalized and vulnerable members of my community, I needed to become a lawyer.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school, at City University of New York School of Law.

    I was delighted to be accepted to the City University of New York’s inaugural class in 1983.  Many of the reasons I chose CUNY Law are stated on its website.  For example, “CUNY Law students bring a passion to make a difference in their communities”. CUNY Law gives them the tools to make that change. As the nation’s premier public interest law school, we are driven by a mission to enhance the diversity of the legal profession and graduate outstanding attorneys intent on creating change for the better. A CUNY Law education prepares lawyers who are ready to right the wrongs, stand up for the underserved and fight for social justice.

    I thoroughly enjoyed my three years of legal education since as a student, I was able to travel to Latin America, work on issues related to equality in public education, teach juveniles housed in a New York City detention center and  develop the skills I would eventually need to practice law in accordance with CUNY Law mission to further “law in the service of human needs.”

     

    What are the subjects that you took particular interest in, during your law school days?

    I enjoyed CUNY Law’s clinical approach to learning and courses I took in constitutional law, legal reasoning and writing and a course titled “Liberty, Justice & Equality.”

     

    What were your initial years after graduation like?

    Because I chose to practice public service law, my first years after graduation were challenging because my income was so low and I had a family to support.  There were times when I was tempted to enter a corporate firm, but I’m glad that I was able to stay true to my deep commitment to using my education, training and privilege in society to help clients of moderate to low incomes.  I also learned the value of pro bono service and tried to provide either pro bono or reduced-fee services whenever possible.  I learned that to do good in one’s community, you had to do well.  Doing well to do good are not mutually exclusive goals.

     

    Tell us more about Community Legal Resource Network (CLRN) and the kind of activities that it engages in.

    Thirteen years after graduating from CUNY Law, I returned to launch a network for CUNY graduates who, like myself years before, need a helping hand to start law practices with a strong social justice component.  We developed CLRN as a way of supporting our graduates as they opened solo or small firm practices and offered around-the-clock mentoring in how to create economically viable law practices and how to develop one’s professional lawyering skills.

     

    You’ve been designated the “Father of Incubators”. Kindly explain the concept of legal incubators, for the benefit of our readers.

    In response to a crisis in access to civil justice in and around New York City, CUNY Law launched the first program in the nation to train recent law school graduates. Begun in 2007, CUNY’s Incubator for Justice was designed to assist CUNY Law graduates to develop the skills needed to set up and sustain economically viable small legal practices. Special emphasis was placed on developing solo and small-firm practices equipped to address the ever-growing unmet legal needs of moderate to low-income New Yorkers living in legally underserved neighborhoods. The incubator was modeled on similar programs around the nation for small business owners. Business incubators in general aim to assist start-up business owners by providing the training participants need to enhance their professional and business skills.

    The goal of the CUNY incubator was to offer its participants the same sort of training that new associates receive when they join law firms, corporations and governmental or legal services organizations. Once hired, associates receive immediate access to professional training and support, and they have mentors to help with almost every aspect of their professional development. CUNY Law wanted to ensure that its graduates venturing into solo or small-firm practice had the same sort of access to quality training and mentorship as new associates.

    Since the Incubator for Justice was crafted as a stand-alone project for a maximum of ten lawyers, at no point in its development or implementation did anyone imagine that the new initiative would take on a life of its own and turn into a movement in the United States—and eventually abroad. The expansion of incubator programs was due, in large part, to the economic chaos that began in 2008. As law schools, and eventually bar associations, were faced with a severe lack of job opportunities for law graduates and newly admitted lawyers, the idea of creating incubator programs became increasingly more attractive. Additionally, the economic downturn left greater numbers of people in the U.S., already ineligible for publicly funded legal services, without the resources to retain private counsel. In many ways a perfect storm led legal institutions to consider incubator development to fill a sorely needed gap in opportunities for new lawyers and access to competent and affordable representation for people of modest means.

    What legal incubators are doing:

    According to the 2016 Comprehensive Survey of Lawyer Incubators, published by the ABA Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services and the Lawyer Incubator Directory, more than 60 incubator programs exist today. Additionally, the survey indicates the following:

    • Although the first incubator emerged in 2007, three-fourths of them that responded to the survey have been created since 2014. Some of them have very recently “graduated” their first class of incubator participants, and a few have not even reached that point.
    • The nature, structure and design of incubators vary greatly from one program to another. The survey demonstrates that the development of incubators has been organic. There is no template for their design and operations. While many are sponsored by law schools, several are collaborative efforts, and some are sponsored by other entities such as bar associations and foundations, legal aid programs, law firms and nonprofit organizations. The services offered by incubators, the funding sources and the range of legal services provided by the participating lawyers to their clients all vary considerably from one program to another. The ABA and the Consortium for Access to Justice have provided resources to help incubators share information but, nevertheless, programs tend to reflect the needs of both their communities and their participating lawyers in unique and varied ways.
    • Incubators are aggressively advancing social responsibility through pro bono services and orientations to low- and moderate-income populations. The common denominator running through most incubators is their dual mission to prepare recently admitted lawyers to develop and launch new practices while at the same time providing services to underserved populations. Pro bono is a fixture in seven out of every ten programs.
    • Incubators are providing their participating lawyers with an array of educational and practice management tools. In-kind support from legal service vendors enable incubator participants to test-drive a wide variety of resources designed to support their practices, create efficiencies and enable the delivery of services at lower costs.
    • Innovation is stressed in many programs but has room to grow in others. Several of the programs are introducing concepts such as unbundled legal services, niche markets and alternative billing structures, but some focus on more traditional practice methods. This points to an opportunity for the larger community of incubator programs to draw from the resources of one another and suggests that some level of peer-to-peer technical assistance can expand an environment of experimentation.

     

    What motivates you?

    My parents and other family members taught me the value of “giving back” to the community many of the blessings that had been bestowed on me.  When I was young, I always believed that I could change the world.  As I got older, I realized that changing the world wasn’t a realistic goal but helping to change the lives of individuals so that their lives were more rewarding and fruitful was a more achievable goal.  Once I became a lawyer, I quickly found out that lawyers can be catalysts for social change, brokers for justice and equality and valuable members of society when they use their knowledge and skills to ensure the rights of each individual in our community are respected and protected.

     

    Is there something you’d change about the legal education system, if you had the opportunity?

    I believe that law schools have an obligation to do more that simply confer law degrees.  Given the astronomical cost of legal education in the US, law schools should continue to provide education, training and support to its graduates. The Carnegie Foundation’s Report on Educating Lawyers will lend perspective. Law school provides the beginning, not the full development, of students’ professional competence and identity. At present, what most students get as a beginning is insufficient. Students need a dynamic curriculum that moves them back and forth between understanding and enactment, experience and analysis. Law schools face an increasingly urgent need to bridge the gap between analytical and practical knowledge, and a demand for more robust professional integrity. Appeals and demands for change, from both within academic law and without, pose a new challenge to legal education. At the same time, they open to legal education a historic opportunity to advance both legal knowledge—theoretical and practical—and the capacities of the profession. Legal education needs to be responsive to both the needs of our time and recent knowledge about how learning takes place; it needs to combine the elements of legal professionalism—conceptual knowledge, skill and moral discernment—into the capacity for judgment guided by a sense of professional responsibility. Legal education should seek to unite the two sides of legal knowledge: formal knowledge and experience of practice. In particular, legal education should use more effectively the second two years of law school and more fully complement the teaching and learning of legal doctrine with the teaching and learning of practice. Legal education should also give more focused attention to the actual and potential effects of the law school experience on the formation of future legal professionals.

     

    From your experience in legal writing, please share with our readers the kind of topics that one must write on if they hope to gain recognition for their ideas.

    One should write on a topic for which the writer feels a sense of passion.  Writing to help advance one’s passion or commitment to a particular idea or ideal makes writing so much more enjoyable.  An article that I wrote for an American Bar Association publication on how pro bono work produces good karma was easy to do because the contents of the article flowed from my life experiences and from my heart.  The written word, when used for the right purpose, can be a powerful tool to espouse one’s beliefs, as seen through social media, and to advance the idea of using law as a tool to advance liberty, justice and equality in any society.

     

    What do your responsibilities involve, as Commissioner of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities?

    The mission of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Rights and Responsibilities to address the challenges and responsibilities facing Hispanics in and within the legal system of the United States.  It strives to accomplish the following:

    1. To provide expertise and resources to develop partnerships among internal and external constituencies of the ABA in order to address the legal issues, that are common to other underserved populations, but within the context of the experiences of Hispanics throughout the United States.
    2. Propose solutions and approaches for the legal profession to meet the opportunities and challenges of the Hispanic community that are exacerbated by such factors as, but not limited to, rapid population growth; language; citizenship and immigration constraints.
    3. Monitor and promote policies that address the unique legal challenges and responsibilities facing Hispanics in the United States.
    4. Develop and support community education efforts, in both English and Spanish, to inform Hispanics about their legal rights and responsibilities on key legal issues such as employment, housing, education, health care, criminal justice, voting rights, and immigration.
    5. Create and advance models through the development of tool kits, social media and communication methodology to transform judicial constructs, legal structures and infrastructures to better address the needs of Hispanic communities, particularly in the areas of language and access to education, employment, and improved public images.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    As the Quaker missionary Stephen Grellet once said, “I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do or any kindness I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it for I shall not pass this way again.”

    As lawyers, we have the potential to engage in the ongoing creation of a world that truly strives to embrace the notion that all men and women are created equal and therefore deserve to be treated as such.  Helping to improve the lives of the most vulnerable members of our community, while also ensuring that we are able to adequately support ourselves and our families, will make the practice of law more analogous to a vocation than to a profession and will inevitably make that world a better place in which to live.

     

  • Deepika Raikwar, Regional Legal Manager-North, Hindustan Unilever Limited, on life at NLIU and IIM, and her experience

    Deepika Raikwar, Regional Legal Manager-North, Hindustan Unilever Limited, on life at NLIU and IIM, and her experience

    Deepika Raikwar graduated from NLIU, Bhopal, in 2006. She then went on to pursue her Masters in Business Management from IIM, Kozhikode with a focus on Strategy and Marketing. She has worked with companies like TATA AIG as an Assistant Manager, Max Bupa Health Insurance Company Ltd. as Manager Legal and Aviva Life Insurance Company as the Senior Manager. In December 2014 she started working for Hindustan Unilever Limited as its Northern Region Legal Manager where her practice is focused upon Consumer Protection, taxation, food and safety law.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Marrying law with management
    • Interning at Yahoo!
    • Her diverse experience

    Tell us something about yourself, apart from your profession. 

    I am an adventure sports enthusiast with a keen interest for understanding world cultures.  Living with a motto of making each minute count, I have couch surfed and hosted people from nearly half the world. I have an eclectic choice in music from a thumri to a psychedelic trance, and everything in between. I generally like to take life easy; only when I’m not working, of course!

     

    What made you choose law as a career?

    The smell of old books, lateral thinking, and fascination for courtroom dramas.

     

    Tell us about your time at NLIU Bhopal.

    Being a first generation lawyer and belonging to one of the first few batches of NLIU (and literally having no placement data/ record or assurance) it felt like subscribing to a much hyped IPO. The jitters and vulnerability were overwhelming for the first few days. The old campus was a small building in a jungle, which made me reconsider my choice many times. But soon it became a milestone in my memory to be a part of the transformation story of NLIU, Bhopal. The campus moved to the new education block while I was in my second year and the new library was also inaugurated. Voila! From a dull and boring life, the campus suddenly transformed into a much talked about hub. The new campus won us over, new batches came in, great friendships were discovered. We had a lot of fun, but the curriculum was equally challenging. 

    The level of exposure and education is and has always remained very structured in NLUs. The trimester pattern gets the rigour going in the right direction. I am impressed by the level of extracurricular activities people get exposed to in law schools these days along with academics, though back then we had fewer choices and avenues. The level of competition is also much higher,which makes every graduate an adept legal professional.

     

    How much do you recommend pursuing MBA after LL.B?

    MBA+LLB is a great combination, especially if you want to excel in the corporate/ commercial/ start-up space. It always helps one switch between roles and have a larger economic and legal perspective on a global scale. Anyway, what’s the point if you do not understand the other side of the story? How can one think through business when every product, business idea, or operations of a venture is riddled with legal challenges. In fact, many sectors are/ were heavily regulated. I felt a person wearing multiple hats of legal aptitude and business understanding would be able to offer effective solutions as opposed to a plain vanilla approach. Also, CAT was quite sought after and I certainly wanted to crack it. 

    MBA is a great course, which certainly empowers one to think in a larger context by breaking through the stereotypical legal mind-set and is totally recommended for people who want to do different things differently. One should just be mindful of the ground reality. There are very few sectors which can offer combination profiles and cross functional exposure wherein one can use both sets of learning and skills. Typically, the trends are indicative of niche jobs being claimed by combination profiles, and this may result in very few possible change or movement options in the long term.

     

    Tell us about being a Management Trainee for Yahoo!

    It was an interesting hybrid internship for me. Yahoo! offered a project based role where I was working on a few yet to be launched products to evaluate them legally and to partner the technical team to build up the business case and later ideate on the product specifications along with their think tank. The culture was so strikingly different that in my induction session with the CEO, the gentleman in a floral shirt and shorts assured me it was acceptable to dress casually and told me it was okay to remove my jacket if I wanted to. The law firm internships were equally exciting, though intensely formal.

     

    Tell us about your experience with TATA AIG.

    TATA AIG was my campus recruiter from IIM, Kozhikode. Joining an insurance MNC as a management associate exposed me to various interesting profiles like Marketing, Business strategy, and finally gave me an opportunity to try my hand at Financial Product Manufacturing. The profile is mentally stimulating and requires a thorough understanding of the regulatory frameworks, finance and advance contract drafting skills. The insurance market leader, was surely on an aggressive plan to expand their national and international product portfolio. I was lucky enough that my first job was very demanding and stressful and I got the support and guidance of some very fine leaders.

     

    How would you describe your experience Aviva Life Insurance Company?

    Aviva Life exposed me to a large scale life insurance set up with all kinds of legal and business challenges. I also got great exposure to M&A from the strategic and legal side and totally enjoyed leading a very high potential team.

     

    How was your experience with Max Bupa Health Insurance Company Ltd? 

    I got exposure setting up the health insurance business in India while the industry was just about a start-up. It is an interesting field and requires a deep understanding of healthcare, human physiology, and medicine. The product development and drafting is a complicated process as healthcare sector in itself is changing every day. To draft and make a futuristic product which is market ready, and sustain the test of scrutiny of the regulator is a quite a task.

     

    Tell us about your role as Regional Legal Manager, North, for Hindustan Unilever Ltd.

    Unilever is a world in itself, every category has multiple brands and the scale of manufacturing and distribution is massive. There is a variety of issues to be handled from business to litigation, IPR, generic strategy. The best part about the work is the complete freedom it offers. The organization loves creativity and would never restrict any one to a particular ‘role’ or profile. The avenues of growth are varied. This imparts dynamism and empowers the next generation of leadership. My immediate goal is to lead a world class legal team and empower my people to grow well, both in the organization and in profession.

     

    There exists a huge debate with regard to being an in-house counsel versus a law firm counsel. What is your opinion on such a comparison?

    I think this debate’s existence per se is a loss of one’s focus. The right debate to have in one’s mind is how to excel in whatever you choose to do. There are different skill sets which the two profiles would certainly impart. It is completely the individual’s prerogative. 

     

    How would you suggest a law student should plan his/her career if he/she wishes to join the legal department of any company?

    Just be very good with whatever you study and do. The keenness to learn and the consistency to perform is the success mantra to be ‘employable’ in an organization. What matters most is persistence, perseverance, and the ability to think quick. This would certainly help not only to have a rewarding career, but a sorted life in general. There is no special preparation required; one should just be good with the basic subjects.

     

    Any other parting advice to our readers?

    There is nothing called preparation, it is just about changing habits to get an impact. My only share of personal experience would be read more, work hard, party harder, and stay focused. 

     

  • Rackhee Trust, Transformational Coach and Holistic Healer, Ojas, on working with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, and finding her spiritual calling

    Rackhee Trust, Transformational Coach and Holistic Healer, Ojas, on working with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, and finding her spiritual calling

    Rackhee graduated in law from Government Law College, Mumbai, in 2011. After a successful stint with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas as Senior Associate, Rackhee discovered her passion for spiritual healing, and left a lucrative career in law to purse her calling. Rackhee Trust is a transformational coach and holistic healer who works with individuals, corporates, children and groups to facilitate breakthroughs in all areas of life. in 2016 she founded her independent venture, Ojas, which offers personal development, spiritual advancement and holistic well being workshops, coaching for private individuals as well as corporates, Reiki classes and one-on-one sessions all over the world.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time as Research Assistant at Harvard
    • Working for Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas
    • Pursuing a career in spiritual healing

     

    What would you like to say to our readers in the manner of introduction?

    We have become very accustomed to introducing ourselves in professional terms. Over the years, I have come to realise and experience and that each one of us is far more than just that job, just that role or just that career.

    That said, I am simply a seeker. A seeker of the Self. One constantly discovering more about who I am, my purpose here and what life has to offer.We take up several roles to give us an identity and often lose ourselves in this role itself. My journey has been riddled with several such instances. One such milestone being my short stint of five years as a lawyer. Just as they say you can take a girl out of Bombay but can’t take Bombay out of her, you can take me out of law but can’t take law out of me. I cherish the wisdom and skills law gave me as I continue on my path to everlasting learning, seeking and inner work

     

    What influenced you to do your undergraduate course in International Relations at Tufts University?

    The need to take up an academically challenging subject that proves to be an asset in my career as a lawyer drove me to majoring in International Relationships during my undergraduate at Tufts University, Boston. Naïve and not realising that pure passion should drive these decisions, I allowed my mind to make a logical decision and yet thoroughly enjoyed my years there.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law at GLC, Mumbai. 

    I was driven to make the most of my time as a law student and gain as much practical experience and exposure during this time. I worked my entire three years during my studentship at GLC, interning in several law firms. I realised even as early as then that this wouldn’t be where I’d end up all the way at the end of my career but it seemed like the right thing to pursue in that moment.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    My internships were very varied and I am very grateful for that. I strongly urge students to take up diverse internships to explore the different opportunities the law has to offer. Often what we think to be our passion translates into something very different in reality. Getting first hand experience of all those aspects of the law that we know to be of interest or not to be of interest to us can be quite an eye-opener.

    My internships ranged from litigation with a very small home office to a clerkship with a very respected justice of the Hon’ble Bombay High Court, followed by M&A, real estate and banking and finance experience across several prestigious law firms in the city.

     

    What are the parameters that must be considered in deciding what the next step should be after graduation?

    Given my experience both as a lawyer and law student struggling with a “decision paralysis” as you accurately term it, all I can say is follow your heart. We often make the wrong decision of choosing what is “safe”, “logical”, what will make zyx happy or proud of you. This may not be as easy at it seems because you may need to introspect a lot to really get in touch with what you’re most passionate about or what your heart really wants. However, when you get in touch with your heart you will realise that you also get in touch with the mighty potential deep within you to make that possible.

    The parameters to be considered once you graduate are really: (i) what really makes happy? (ii) for a moment if money didn’t matter what would you be doing? (iii) are you choosing xyz role/job for the money/lifestyle/freedom/independence or something else? (iv) what is really driving your decision? (v) what else can you do to achieve happiness and also the money/lifestyle/independence/something else that you’re looking for?

    If you can answer these questions truthfully to yourself, you will have made the best decision for yourself. Trust that decision and follow through.

     

    Could you share with us your experiences as a Research Assistant at Harvard’s Center for Public Leadership?

    It was a great experience working as an RA at Harvard’s Centre for Public Leadership, if you like doing research. At this stage, I wasn’t in touch with what I love doing most. The learning experience was wonderful and it definitely honed my research skills which come handy as a lawyer. I encourage all law students to take up as many opportunities to work on their research skills as possible. Not all law schools provide the environment to do so, GLC definitely did not. You may struggle as an intern/lawyer without knowing how best to research.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Naik Paranjpe & Company.

    This was quite natural for me as I was accustomed to working when this transition took place. In fact I had been working with Naik Paranjpe & Company for over a year before I graduated. The bonus was the associate pay when I did finally graduate! That’s the only real transition.

     

    From being a Senior Associate at Amarchand Mangaldas, what inspired you to take the leap in beginning your career as a transformational coach and holistic healer?

    Honestly, doing what I currently do has always been my calling. Sometimes it takes many turns and twists to realise that you landed up where you started off and that is truly who you are. I have been a Reiki practitioner for over eighteen years and the foundation of who I am lies in my spiritual journey and practice which began at the very young age of three when I met my spiritual master and Guru, Swami Chidvilasananda. My life has been riddled with experiences where I have constantly sought the answer to several questions surrounding Who am I? What is my purpose in life, why am I really here? and so on. This introspection and constant questioning lead me on my spiritual journey which has eventually culminated in my following my heart and making a life out of it. Taking this so called leap came very naturally as the time was right and the opportunities simply presented themselves. Like I teach my students now, when you open yourself to the universe, everything simply flows as you are aligned with the flow itself.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you were faced with in establishing Ojas? 

    The challenges I faced were self created obstacles. Obstacles of my own limiting beliefs and as I overcame them with the work I do I began realising the power of what I do itself. My obstacles presented me with the opportunity to overcome them for myself before I could be instrumental in others overcoming their obstacles. So be it in their career, personal life (relationships) or physical/mental/emotional health, I experienced that the answer lay deep within ourselves. In fact, the root of the problem too lies within, although often it may seem to be externalised in the form of a situation, pattern, person, experience, consequence or decision. My biggest challenge was attracting clients who didn’t want to pay or didn’t have the money to pay for what I did. My first two weeks in my new role was the most challenging. I remember sitting down with this and working on myself one late night and there has been no looking back since then. Today I am humbled and grateful to say I earn more than what I earned as an associate leaving Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, and the earning is effortless.

    The outcome of this experience was the realisation that each of our challenges are presented to us merely as an opportunity to discover what lies beyond it. When we tune in and get in touch with what really lies at the heart of this challenge, it feels like the opening up of a Pandora’s box. Suddenly, everything opens up and before you know it that challenge itself is not there anymore (or is not a challenge any more!). This is what my learning in establishing Ojas brought me to. A very deep understanding of who I am and what I really do.

    Ojas seeks to touch lives. To bring every seeker to a space of Self Empowerment through Knowledge of the Self. Healing, coaching, etc. are very limited labels. At Ojas we simply come together as seekers of knowledge, the Self and the truth. The journey reveals the rest.

     

    What courses did you take up in preparation for your job as a transformational coach?

    The biggest course has been the learning as a result of my journey through life. Each experience has given me so much that it has added to my unique skill set. No two people who go through the conventional “courses” or “training” will come out the same because each one’s life journey will mould their individual ways.

    That said, I have been through extensive international training in various paths that lead to the healing of the subconscious mind which carries the key to all our suffering and challenges. I am a Reiki Grand Master and practice Reiki while also teaching it. Other than that I am an internationally certified Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) practitioner, Matrix Reimprinting Practitioner, Neurolinguisitic Programming Pracitioner, Breakthrough Coach, Magnified Healing Practitioner & Teacher, Bach Flower Therapy Teacher and Practitioner, Angel Healing teacher and Practitioner (among a lot else).

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career? 

    I have had several mentors along my journey. The list is endless and I am very grateful to each of them for the role they have played. This is a question that has almost haunted me all my teenage years because I wondered whether it was essential to have one guide, as I never did. Over the years, I realised that there had been several role models and as I evolved they too kept shifting. So in my experience it is very important to keep having more and more mentors or role models for different aspects of ourselves (as we are multi-faceted individuals and not linear) as we continue to evolve. This allows for our evolution to take place consistently without stagnation and in an all round manner.

     

    As the Founder at Ojas, what does a typical work day look like for you?

    Every day is very unique and that is what I love about what I do. My day usually begins with some self-work in the form of meditation or some such inner practice. Then my day is typically studded with client appointments all across (beginning as early as 6 am and concluding no later than 6 pm). In between I’m busy writing course material for the several courses I deliver and am continuing to develop. Reading, writing, reflecting, sharing, growing and relaxing typically encompass every day in the life of me. I have a beautiful and constantly growing set of students and clients across the world and we reflect and share and grow on a daily basis. This keep my inner work in check on a daily basis and my inner growth continues to take place thanks to each and every one of them.

    Please share with us the initiatives, workshops and projects that Ojas takes up?

    At Ojas we take up several projects, initiatives and workshops ranging from ones offered to individuals, groups as well as corporates and uniquely created to cater to their goals and needs. There is no cookie cutter approach to anything we do because each individual is unique and so what we have to offer to is needed to be such. Our initiatives and workshops range from Reiki classes, manifestation workshops, stress busting initiatives (that work at the level of the subconscious mind), targeting relationship blocks through various tools, trainings on effective speaking, meditation and heartfulness trainings, teaching about Angels and different realms of energies, monthly meditations, Bach Flower Therapy courses and tons more.

     

    What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel in stressful workplaces in the legal profession? 

    My work has brought me to a state of complete stressfreeness. It is an inner journey to get here really. I can say for all my clients and students that they have achieved this or are getting there and there are no “key” attributes that will get anyone there because each one is wired so differently that the remedy for each will be unique.

    That said, the key to each one’s stress lies in the subconscious and when we deal with what’s deep seated within the subconscious mind, a state of stress-free freedom arises spontaneously. Doctors, therapists, counselors etc. are trained to treat surface level issues. Each symptom is treated in isolation. In the work we do at Ojas, each individual is looked at as one whole comprising of all that which makes up who they are.

    The healing takes place deep inside at the level of the root cause (of all surface level issues). Often the root cause lies in some situation, emotion, event, memory etc. that took place several years or even moments ago. That leads to thoughts, feelings, emotions, beliefs, habits, actions, decisions, choices, patterns and personality which eventually manifests in the form of that which is troubling us (as disease, relationship issues, money/finance/career related struggles etc.). When the root cause is healed, the surface level issue disappears spontaneously. This is the answer to releasing stress at your workplace and in life in general and experiencing waves of joyful abundance through a life that may seem dry and regular. Each one of you can have this experience, the question is whether or not you are ready for it!

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    There is no difference and yet they are balance. My professional and personal interests are one and the same. I am very blessed to have a partner who loves what I do and so what we do is part of our lifestyle. I believe only when you truly are what you do can you enjoy both personal and professional as one and the same.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?

    We are steadily moving in the direction we had envisioned. We are blessed to be moving forward at a faster pace than we envisioned. I don’t believe in planning and envisioning in as much detail (as a five year plan) because even our vision can limit the limitless possibilities. All I know is that Ojas is on to something very big, a universal revolution. It will take us places as also each individual associated with us in any form.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Follow your heart. Listen to your inner voice. You know what really makes you happy. You know what YOU really want. Go for it. Life is a miracle, anything is possible. Believe in this. You are capable of achieving far more than you can even imagine. Just trust in the universe a little more than in your own fear and insecurities and watch where all you end up! Enjoy the journey!

  • Vishrut Jain, Banking and Finance Laws Specialist, on the Indian banking regime, and his experience

    Vishrut Jain, Banking and Finance Laws Specialist, on the Indian banking regime, and his experience

    Vishrut Jain graduated in 2012 from WBNUJS, Kolkata. He is a Senior Associate in the Banking & Finance team of VDB-Loi a law firm based in Myanmar, with offices in the South East Asian region. Prior to this he has worked as an in-house counsel, first as a Manager with ICICI Bank, then as a Senior Manager with Tata Capital and after that as an Assistant Vice President with Yes Bank. He is also a designated advocate of the Bombay High Court.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His experience in the banking sector and the banking regime in India
    • His experience thus far in the legal field

     

    WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY TO OUR READERS BY WAY OF INTRODUCTION?

     Growing up, I was always surrounded by law books as I am a fourth generation lawyer. In school, I was a voracious reader and enjoyed participating in debates and theatre. I would describe myself as having a gregarious personality and a curious outlook to life, therefore I like meeting new people and learning new things.

     

    WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO TAKE UP LAW AS YOUR CHOICE OF CAREER?

    As I mentioned, law is in my blood, so to speak. Having said that, I was never forced to make it my career choice, rather I gravitated towards it organically. I was really impressed by the respect that the legal profession commanded and the fact that it was really about helping people in their time of distress. This is why it is called a noble profession.

     

    TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR TIME STUDYING LAW AT NUJS.

    I am proud to say I am an alumni of NUJS. It is a fine institution with an excellent faculty and one whose students have gone on to achieve great things in life. In college I was a member of the literary and debating society and headed the society for advancement of criminal justice and also the magazine committee. I also took active part in moot courts, MUNs and the cultural festivals. The learnings I received, both inside and outside the classroom, the life experiences I had and the friendships I made — these will stay with me for life. I do want to make a point here though. College life comes with it many challenges and everything is not always smooth sailing. It is in these difficult times that one has to carry on and hope that things will work out. And most times, they do.

     

    COULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THE INTERNSHIPS YOU TOOK UP, AND WHAT YOU LEARNT FROM THOSE EXPERIENCES?

    As is the norm, my first internship was with an NGO, followed by court internships (district courts in Delhi, Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court) as well as a judicial clerkship. Thereafter I interned in law firms such as AZB & Partners and Khaitan & Co. While academic learning is essential, there is no substitute for practical experience and I learnt the practical aspects of being a lawyer during these internships.

     

    WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE STUDENTS IN AVOIDING A DECISION PARALYSIS WHEN MAKING A CAREER CHOICE?

    A decision paralysis is actually a blessing, since it is caused by having an abundance of choices. Ultimately, it comes down to what you enjoy doing. If you enjoy being in a court setting, and do not mind waiting a few years before raking in the big bucks, then a career in litigation may be for you. If you prefer the corporate lifestyle with the glamour of closing deals, then you may consider a law firm or an in-house role. The beauty of law school is that it opens up the doors to a variety of options – graduates have also chosen to join the civil services, judicial services, teaching profession and even politics.

     

    TELL US ABOUT YOUR EARLY PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCES AT ICICI BANK LIMITED. 

    I was fortunate to get an opportunity to start my career with ICICI Bank. The legal team at ICICI is especially renowned for building a strong foundation in its fresh recruits. I gained transactional knowledge and learnt the intricacies of the banking sector during my time there.

     

    WHAT WAS THE TRANSITION LIKE FROM LAW STUDENT TO A LAWYER?

    Every student finds it intimidating when thinking about the shift from law student to lawyer and I was no exception. Three things helped make the transition smoother – the training I received in law school, self-discipline along with self-motivation and the guidance from my senior colleagues.

     

    HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HAVE A MENTOR?

    It is not only important, but absolutely essential to have a mentor. In fact, I would say not only one, you must have as many mentors as you possibly can. Mr. Edwin Vanderbruggen, Ms. Jean Loi, Mr. Jeffrey Martin, Mr. Nishant Choudhary, Mr. Arun Khanna, Mr. Kumar Medhavi, Mr. Raunaq Baid, Ms. Leena Chacko, Ms. Sarita Kamath, Ms. Nitu Agarwal and Mr. Sanjay Nambiar have guided me along my path.

     

    HOW DID YOU COME TO WORK AT TATA CAPITAL FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED AND WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE LIKE?

    Having worked in a bank, I wanted to gain experience working in an NBFC and this was an ideal opportunity. I worked closely with various stakeholders including other creditors, multiple borrowers, business teams and law firms, to build common ground and resolve legal and commercial issues to ensure that a deal goes through. At this time SARFAESI also became applicable to NBFCs and I helped revise the debt recovery policy of the organisation. I find the NBFC space to be an interesting sector with its own unique challenges.

     

    HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING AT YES BANK LIMITED?

    YES Bank is the fastest growing organisation in the banking sector and the first greenfield bank to be licensed by the RBI. I was involved in a variety of transactions, including GIFT City funding and Masala Bonds. The experience I gained there is invaluable.

     

    WHAT IS IT LIKE TO WORK IN MYANMAR? WHY DID YOU MAKE THE SHIFT?

    It is an exciting place to be in since the country has only very recently opened up its economy. There are new projects coming in every day with foreign investors, and the legal regime is being overhauled as well. So, I am getting the opportunity to learn a lot and, at the same time, make a meaningful contribution to the progress and development of the country.

     

     

    ON WHAT PARAMETERS DO YOU CHOOSE THE PROJECTS YOU WORK ON?

    First, as expected, I work on the projects I have been assigned, which consist of a variety of transactions, including project finance, structured finance and debt recovery. Beyond this, I choose to work on projects which are somewhat new and off the beaten track. For example, in Myanmar I have worked on a World Bank project for the restructuring of state owned banks and advised the government on the drafting of housing laws. I have also made presentations on the new company law, investment law, insurance law and condominium law. I advised a foreign airline company on market entry into the aviation sector.

     

    COULD YOU TAKE US THROUGH A TYPICAL WORKING DAY AT YOUR OFFICE?

    Typically, a working day would see me handling multiple transactions at a time, meeting with clients and, time permitting, work on drafting a memo on a new law or a legal update.

     

    WHAT BOOKS HAVE YOU READ WOULD YOU SAY HAVE PLAYED AN INTEGRAL ROLE IN SHAPING YOUR LEGAL PHILOSOPHY?

    Three that immediately come to mind are Before Memory Fades by Fali Nariman,Roses in December by Justice M.C. Chagla and On Balance by Leila Seth. These autobiographies of renowned jurists have greatly influenced my thought processes.

     

    WHAT ARE THE KEY ATTRIBUTES THAT ONE MUST DEVELOP IN ORDER TO EXCEL IN THIS INDUSTRY?

    A person who reads a lot is bound to excel in this industry. Hard work and discipline are a must. It is important to enjoy what you do, since that keeps you motivated. And finally and most importantly, the key to success lies in one word – practice.

     

    HOW DO YOU MANAGE YOUR TIME BETWEEN YOUR PROFESSIONAL AND PERSONAL INTERESTS?

    Work-life balance is important to avoid getting burnt-out. I enjoy traveling, reading, biking, trekking, swimming and spending time with my pets.

     

    HOW DO YOU KEEP YOURSELF UPDATED ABOUT THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN THE LAW?

    I feel the best way of learning is by doing. If I hear about some new developments in the law, I try to write about it. We regularly hold presentations and circulate a legal newsletter. External sources such as legal websites (Bar & Bench, Legally India) and newsletters from other organisations are also a useful source of information.

     

    WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE OUR READERS, WHO ARE MOSTLY LAW STUDENTS AND YOUNG LAWYERS?

    To law students I would say, even if you decide not to become a lawyer, five years in law school teaches you how to think. This will hold you in good stead wherever you go. To young lawyers I would say play the long game. Law is truly a jealous mistress, but if you serve her well, she will take you places.

  • Anupam Sanghi, Founder, Anupam Sanghi & Associates, on Competition Law, her pro-bono work, and plans for the future

    Anupam Sanghi, Founder, Anupam Sanghi & Associates, on Competition Law, her pro-bono work, and plans for the future

    Anupam Sanghi graduated in law from Nagpur University in 1997. She then went on to pursue her Masters in Competition Law from Kings University, in 2010. Anupam is the Founder and Managing Partner of Anupam Sanghi & Associates (ASA), and heads the TMT, Competition/Antitrust and Regulatory Practice. She has pioneered in these areas for the last eighteen years of practice, advising MNCs and SMEs on every aspect of legal & regulatory strategy, M&A transactions, compliance & training, intellectual property rights and dispute resolution / arbitrations. She is also a frequent writer, speaker and presenter at national and international conferences and seminars.

    In this interview we speak to her about:
    • Her experience in competition law
    • Her pro-bono work
    • Starting independent practice

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? 

    Hello Superlawyers, to all those who consider themselves so! I initially wanted to be a CA, and law was the second option in that list. But it’s turned out to be the best choice I’ve made. I find the legal profession exciting and creative as it has the potential to transform society and move us towards a growth trajectory.  

    What motivated you to take up law? 

    I am actually a third generation lawyer. My grandfather, Late Vishnu Kumar Sanghi, was a leading lawyer, practising at the Nagpur Bench of the Bombay High Court during the period of 1940 to 1990. My uncle, Late G.L Sanghi, was a Senior Advocate, practising in the Supreme Court of India between 1957 and 2006. My grandfather inspired me to study law. He wanted me to pursue law even if I didn’t intend to practise it in the future. Though I had enrolled in the CA/CFA programme initially, I decided to pursue law soon after. As a final year law student, I worked in the chambers of Mr. Rajiv Nayyar where I got a chance to learn drafting Intellectual Property and Commercial Litigation matters. Once I started to work, I was more and more inclined to making this my career and soon found myself jumping into it like a fish takes to water.

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college?

    As a student, in school as well as college, I was interested in co-curricular activities and participated in music and sports. I am trained in Indian classical music. I have participated in table-tennis championships. My love for sports made me play other games like squash and lawn tennis. In my opinion, co-curriculum is a very important aspect in a student’s life. These activities have helped in shaping my personality as a person who loves to take challenges and never gives up. A very important life lesson that sports teaches one is to accept defeat graciously and never give up. The defeats have in fact motivated me to do better. I feel it is a must for students to be part of co-curriculum, to take challenges and to realise that winning and losing is part of the learning curve. Engaging in sports, debates and other hobbies would certainly help students and fresh graduates to get a holistic perspective of life, deal with their pressures more positively and not get overwhelmed with the competitive atmosphere they face.  

     

    What books, judgements that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    In the beginning of my career I had picked up Nani Palkivala’s We The People. His speeches on the Indian economy were illuminating. He elaborated on the advantages of de-control and modernization in his budget analysis. In my opinion, the fundamentals of capitalism discussed by him in the book are very relevant in today’s time and would help budding entrepreneurs understand the economy better. He dedicated his time meticulously to work, as best exemplified by his success in the case of Keshavananda Bharati, one of the landmark matters he  argued in the Supreme Court. Interestingly, as a man of such sharp intellect, he also enjoyed reading self-improvement books (especially those  by Peter Drucker).

    The other legal luminary who has immensely inspired me is Soli Sorabjee. Besides the books he has authored, I used to be thrilled to read “Soliloquies”, his column published in the Indian Express. The way he made even inane matters seem humorous left me in awe of his staggering wit. 

    My Uncle, Late G. L. Sanghi, who was a Senior Counsel in the Supreme Court also had a very powerful mentoring effect on me. He was deeply perturbed by the the rampant human rights violations all around. However, he was always optimistic and truly believed that the legal profession would play a significant role in finding a solution. He felt deeply about the role of law societies (like LAWASIA where he was a past President) in these changing times. He also encouraged me to attend seminars from the very beginning of my career. I have been part of various seminars, in India and overseas, and am an active member of LAWASIA. At the LAWASIA conferences, I have met various brilliant jurists from all over the world who are like family to me today.

    In practice, all my seniors have played a crucial role in shaping me, both as an individual and as a professional. I was fascinated to meet Mukul Rohatgi, who was my first senior. He would argue in fifteen to twenty matters one after the other. Working with him, I learnt court craft and brevity. I am still learning how to be precise and make sharp arguments like him. After about a year I joined my dream firm, the erstwhile Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co. At the Firm, I was drafting and handling clients and court matters, dealing with senior counsels, billing, and so on. I was a part of all the activities required to run a practice. I was fortunate to handle big litigation matters in emerging areas like Telecom and Arbitration. I single handedly worked on the matters, used to report to Pallavi Shroff or Ritu Bhalla. They were extremely demanding as bosses and they brought out the best in me. For me, every day was a new test and a new incarnation of she-who-must-excel. I would have never learnt so much if I would have stayed under the family umbrella. In AMSAS, I also got a chance to work with Shardul Shroff in a couple of advisory matters and it was at this firm that I harboured dreams of one day setting up my own practice independently.

    In order to further polish my skills as a practitioner, after three years in AMSAS, I joined the chambers of Neeraj Kaul when I was also appointed as a Counsel for the Central Government. With him, I learnt court strategy and how to think on my feet. Besides sharpening my skills as a litigator, he made me take inspiration from my work and to work harder rather than questioning the sluggish legal system.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up?

    Before I graduated as a lawyer, I interned with EY and learnt accounts, cost auditing and also a fair bit of accounting standards. I also worked in the Chambers of the present Attorney General, Mukul Rohatgi. There I learnt court strategy and case research. In those times research wasn’t as convenient as it is today. We didn’t have sites like SCC online and Manupatra to assist us. In order to get the relevant judgment, one had to understand the proposition to be argued and also the applicable legislation and provisions. Today, even non-lawyers can mindlessly do a keyword research and get relevant judgments. Knowing the exact point in issue is an art, which I learnt while working in the chambers of Mr. Rohatgi. I consider myself very lucky to have had such an opportunity.

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    A part of me is still a student. It keeps my enthusiasm and the eagerness to learn more alive. To be a good lawyer, it’s imperative to be a good learner. My journey has been very fulfilling and enriching. I took the learning path by first joining the chamber of a senior counsel to know and understand the law well, then a law firm to apply the law and to learn to manage a legal practice. Then I went on to develop myself as a professional and as an independent arguing counsel and finally as a specialist in niche areas. My transition has been enlightening and I hope I can inspire my juniors to find their niche practice and polish their knowledge and skill sets in the same.

     

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    I wake up early morning for a walk and before going to courts or meetings, I must sit and read some case laws or articles on current issues for an hour. In the beginning of my career, I inculcated the practice to read a lot and to reflect the same in my work.

    I have been sharing my insights on new developments in Competition law on various social media platforms like Linkedin, Facebook, etc. It has the advantage of getting responses and knowing the viewpoints of others.

    I have been part of the LAWASIA network since 2003 where I participate in seminars on different areas of law every year. Since the enforcement of competition law in 2009, I have had the opportunity to speak in antitrust / competition law events organized by other forums around the world.

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    I like to guide and support senior citizens with their legal issues and wills, especially when they are torn between their children who are too busy in their lives to care about their parents. Another segment which I think needs help is juvenile delinquency. I have been involved with the cause, whether it’s relating to their legal issues or overall development. I am also part of Project Abhimanyu where we provide free guidance and mentoring to law students. Lately, I have been involved in guiding young Indian entrepreneurs who lack awareness of legal and regulatory matters for their startups. I truly believe that it is not possible to have a sustainable business in an unsustainable policy environment. All business models rely on certain external conditions. Most important among these are a country’s economic policy and regulatory framework.

    There is a yawning communication gap between the government and businesses. With the right mindset, this gap can be bridged and doing business can be made a lot simpler. The economy needs to grow steadily to ultimately alleviate disparity and poverty as well. Creating a competition culture by proper enforcement of competition law will surely enable this.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Amarchand & Mangaldas. 

    Before I joined AMSAS, I was already working till midnight in the chambers of my uncle who was a Senior Counsel (Late Mr. G. L. Sanghi) in the Supreme Court. I used to be delighted to work with him, I would read and research with him till late night, post dinner. I used to enjoy getting an insight into issues that came to his mind at real time. However, in senior counsels’ chambers, Friday evenings were sacrosanct and there was always a pre-planned dinner or outing with other lawyer friends.

    Though I already had long working hours, at AMSAS, the pressures were different – it was more about client handling, team work, drafting and filing matters. I had to give up on Friday evening plans and even work through weekends. But at the end of the day I was happy and satisfied with the work, so the long working hours never bothered me.

    What were the challenges and learning opportunities that you faced in establishing Anupam Sanghi & Associates?

    One major challenge that I faced while developing my clientele is that managers in the corporate sector often look at small term solutions. Although I would show them the importance of looking at a long term solution to mitigate legal and regulatory risks, they cannot look beyond temporary corrective measures. If stakeholders appreciate the need to seek strategic advice, follow compliances before legal issues arise, a lot of knee jerk litigation can be avoided resulting in smooth functioning of their business plans. It gets very challenging to explain this to some business managers, especially those managing the Tech Start-Ups who need to safeguard their investments the most. However, they are beginning to see the benefit of my approach with the funding drying up and fire fighting not helping them in their litigation strategy.

    Also, the legal field is getting so competitive that we lawyers tend to get caught up in the rat race. Since I was finding this frustrating, I focused on developing my practice in a few niche areas. Thankfully, I could overcome this challenge as I resisted the rat race and stayed focused in specializing in niche areas, like competition and regulatory law.

    Building a team was also difficult as a hard task master. Now I can say I have been lucky enough to work with a dedicated and hardworking team that enjoys working on emerging issues. I feel in this day and age of social media distractions, it’s important for budding lawyers to be disciplined and to be molded into thorough professionals from the very beginning of their careers. The attractive salary packages being offered by big law firms also pressurizes them to target on earnings while they lose their formative years of knowledge building.

    Can you tell us about your experience interacting with legal stalwart Prof. Richard Whish?

    (Prof. Whish’s book on Competition Law is followed as part of the curriculum in almost every college, globally, and Anupam has had the opportunity to attend training sessions by him.)

    While doing telecom litigation, I would be looking for solutions to bring about a level playing field as DoT & PSUs like BSNL / MTNL have policy better policy benefits compared to the private players who were sinking in huge funds only to be at risk in an uneven playing field. I found that competition law did have the solution as it can be a great leveler. I enrolled at King’s College for their Postgraduate Diploma in EU Competition Law to add to my knowledge base. Prof. Richard Whish made the subject so easy and interesting that I would not blink in the entire session from 9 AM to 5 PM. The course was never ending as the latest case until the date of examination had to be studied, analysed and applied. Even for a lawyer, competition law as a subject  is not easy to understand theoretically. However, I treated Prof.  Richard Whish’s book like the Bible and what seemed like a complicated subject with more of economics became interesting. The college does have a great faculty, the other professors who took some modules were also quite good and made the subject interesting for us. I think I would never be able to understand the real philosophy behind competition law if I had did not gone through the program. It has helped me to wear two hats – one as a lawyer and the other as an economist.

    I used to enjoy studying  macro economics and costing while studying CFA (from ICFAI) prior to law. So, I think I found what was closest to my heart by studying competition law at Kings, London.

    How do you feel about the present competition law regime in India? 

    The Competition Regulator, Competition Commission of India (CCI) has created an impact in several sectors by fining for anti-competitive business conduct. For instance, the CCI has imposed a penalty of around Rs.6300 Crores on the cement cartel for price fixing, Rs.250 Crores on the LPG cylinder cartel for bid rigging, Rs.2500 Crores on car manufacturers for exclusive dealerships, Rs.630 Crores on DLF for abusing their dominance by unilateral agreements, and so on. The CCI has also come down heavily on PSUs such as Coal India for abusing their dominant power by forcing one sided terms in their Fuel Supply agreements with SEBs.

    These are record breaking fines making headlines since 2011 and by now CCI has created a fear amongst managers who are conscious of getting under the CCI scanner.

    Some of the other giants under CCI investigation are Ola, Google, Monsanto & Ericsson. In the last seven years, CCI has made its presence felt well. Though there is still a long way to go as most of these orders imposing penalties are challenged before the Delhi High Court, questioning the jurisdiction of CCI, the appellate tribunal COMPAT has remanded back cases to CCI to comply with principals of natural justice. Few matters are also before the Supreme Ccourt on issues regarding CCI’s jurisdiction and to decide on the method of calculation of the penalty. So, the courts would hopefully further evolve the law enabling in creating a competition culture. The characteristics of online markets are quite different compared to the traditional markets and free pricing / predatory issues arise. So, although the key prohibitions that violate competition law would be the same, the market data has to be analysed with a different approach as technology has changed the way the market works. Due to lack of sophisticated market definition and economic analysis, in the earlier years, CCI passed some inconsistent and / poorly reasoned orders, with two different approaches to market definition in similar markets. Advocacy for a level playing field at the policy level, following international jurisprudence and trends set by competition authorities from developed jurisdictions would help develop this sector.

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    I have been focusing my work on evolving regulatory issues in the TMT space. So, I consciously developed a practice around Telecom, ICT / Technology sector. Competition regulation is an overarching law. Further, as a complete / holistic lawyer, it’s imperative to deal with dispute resolution. Therefore, I have developed a corporate / commercial law practice involving litigation & advisory in niche areas.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    Work keeps me wired in all the time but I do snatch out time for my love for concerts and music jams, going to the sports club on weekends, reading good humour by witty authors like P. G. Wodehouse and Oscar Wilde, Bill Bryson who depicts his traveling so hilariously. There is no other way but to somehow squeeze in these activities in my agenda.

     

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    I would like to contribute to the development of competition law as a practitioner and academically as well. Actually, I would like to spend more time visiting universities sharing practical guidance with students and corporate managers, organize more events for students as a mentor in Project Abhimanyu. Hopefully, I will be working on a Artificial Intelligence (AI) project to further simplify my legal practice.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are inclined to developing a proficiency in Competition Law?

    Competition law is an emerging field. It is going to take some time before every firm develops a particular team for Competition law. Lawyers/freshers who want to develop a career in competition law will have to be patient to get work opportunities. It is imperative to focus on learning and research and finding solutions to every grey area in the field. Also as competition is a niche area the cases are limited as compared to general litigation. Having said that, every year the practice is evolving and is becoming more demanding. It is important for the lawyers to be focused at this stage, as this field will certainly gain an edge over other practices.

  • Ajoy Halder, Partner, HSA Advocates, on his time at NLSIU, and his experience in Energy and Infrastructure Law

    Ajoy Halder, Partner, HSA Advocates, on his time at NLSIU, and his experience in Energy and Infrastructure Law

    Ajoy Halder graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 2004. After successful stints at Trilegal, Amarchand Mangaldas, Pinsent Masons, among others, he is currently Partner at HSA Advocates. Ajoy has diverse experience of representing sponsors, banks and governments on all aspects of infrastructure transactions including PPP transactions, EPC/construction contracts, project finance transactions and M&A/joint venture transactions (in infrastructure sector). The sectors in which Ajoy specialise are transport including airport, rail/metro, port and road; power including renewal and non-renewal; water; and oil & gas. He has extensive experience of advising on infrastructure and energy transactions across Asia including India, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Myanmar, China, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka; Africa including Uganda, Kenya and Zimbabwe; and Middle East.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • The best time to pursue an LL.M
    • His experience in energy and infrastructure law

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an energy and infrastructure lawyer with more than thirteen years of experience in this practice area.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your life at NLSIU. 

    NLS is a very liberal and tolerant institute which provides opportunities to (and teaches) the students to have diverse views and co-exist. In addition to law, it teaches skills which are needed to survive/succeed in life, such as making presentations, public speaking, social skills, etc. The schedule at NLS can be a bit hectic – attendance is compulsory, multiple research papers are to be written each trimester followed by presentations and exams. The regular classes commence early in the morning and get over by lunch, which provides ample time to the students to engage in co-curricular/ extra-curricular activities. Life at NLS would often depend on the interest of an individual student. I was moderately active on the co-curricular/ extra-curricular activities. It could be very competitive but I kept myself away from that. Based on my experience, NLUs being specialized institutes for legal education, are probably more conducive to legal education.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    I interned with NGOs, corporates and law firms with a slight exposure to dispute resolution. Internship gives you an insight into the real world, therefore, law students should utilize internship opportunities and explore various fields of law and understand the work culture associated with different fields of law. The exposure from the internships and feedback from my professors/ alumni helped me realize that I wanted to be a corporate lawyer during my initial years after law school.

     

    What internships would you recommend to a student who also aspires to carve out a career for himself/herself in corporate law?

    I would recommend interning with litigating lawyers, law firms and corporates. Litigation exposure gives a good understanding of how laws and contracts are interpreted when it comes to disputes and corporate internships give an insight on what the corporates expect from a corporate lawyer working at a law firm.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields?

    I specialize in advising on energy and infrastructure projects across Asia. I have also worked on a few projects  in Africa and the Middle East. During my initial years as a lawyer, I practised a little bit of everything (mainly general corporate, banking and projects). I started liking energy and infrastructure projects better than other areas of practice and thus specialized in energy and infrastructure. Further, my stint with Pinsent Masons in Singapore gave me a greater exposure to energy and infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa and the Middle East, and my liking for this area of practice continued. It is very interesting to advise on energy and infrastructure projects in different jurisdictions. Most of the jurisdictions have their own peculiarities, which makes these projects more interesting, and of course, your learning curve is very high. The learning from one jurisdiction is usually utilized in advising on energy and infrastructure projects in a different jurisdiction and vice versa. I plan to continue working on this area of law.

     

    At what stage in one’s law school life must one pick a specialisation?

    A corporate lawyer should ideally not decide on which field he/she wants to specialize in law school. In fact, one should not commence specialization until two to three years of practising law. It is very important to have knowledge of most areas of law. The initial years should be spent on working on as many different areas of law as possible. This will not only help in deciding which area of law one is good at but will also help in providing all round advice to clients in subsequent years.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    I did not have any mentor. Initially, monetary consideration was an important inspiration; however, (luckily) as I started working, I started enjoying infrastructure and energy related assignments. I started understanding the sector, not only the legal aspects but also the commercial aspects- this helped me grow as a commercial lawyer. I tend to learn from people around me, they are my inspiration. Some are good at drafting, some at analysis, while others at some other aspects of legal practice. I try to pick up different attributes from different people.  

     

    Would you say law school prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    I am not sure if law school prepares you for the real world of practice of law. But if we enter the legal profession with an open mind and are willing to un-learn and re-learn, success is around the corner. It is very important to work diligently during the initial years. Most of the important skills (research, drafting, analytical skills, client management), which will sustain us as a lawyer for the rest of our careers, are learnt during the initial years of law practice. I worked diligently during my initial years trying to absorb as much as possible. The learning curve should be very high during the initial years of law practice.

     

    Tell us about your experience working at a Tier-I firm like Amarchand & Mangaldas.

    I think confidence plays an important role. Confidence usually comes with knowledge and willingness to learn. In most leading firms, a lawyer would be dealing with clients across continents. Therefore, a professional approach and some social skills are also a prerequisite for success at a leading firm.

     

    How do you say interns should go about their work at a firm like Amarchand & Mangaldas, so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    Small things go a long way; be on time, complete tasks on time, work sincerely on the assignment given to you, proofread documents before sending to the attorneys, dress professionally, don’t repeat mistakes. Basically, be diligent and sincere.

     

    Back in your student years, did you ever see yourself becoming the partner of a firm as reputed as HSA?

    I am happy that I am a partner at HSA. However, I don’t remember being concerned about or putting too much of emphasis on partnership during my college days. I was more concerned about job satisfaction and growing as a lawyer and as a person. Luckily, early on in my career I realized what area of law I wanted to specialize in and I kept at it. Thus, perseverance/consistency played an important role in my career. I was fortunate to get the opportunity to work at Amarchand & Mangaldas and then at Pinsent Masons in Singapore. These two law firms played a very important role in my career. In addition to knowing/learning the law (which should be a given for any lawyer), one needs to have strong analytical and social skills to be in any leadership position. Both these law firms taught me plenty of these.  

     

    Give us a brief capsule of the life of a partner and your average working day experience.

    I am quite hands on when it comes to execution. Therefore, I spend a lot of time on execution of transactions. In addition, I spend considerable time on business development activities and some time on administrative matters of the firm. An average day would start with replying to various mails, followed by legal work and business development activities (may not be in this order).

     

    If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point? 

    I have worked in Delhi for the longest time, then briefly in Mumbai and then for a few years in Singapore. This has given me diverse experience and I am quite happy about that. I am content with where I am.  In the initial years, one should concentrate on learning and should not change too many jobs.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    Work hard, and more importantly, be kind(to yourself and people around you). Law is a demanding profession and maintaining amicable relations with clients and colleagues will help your career in the long run. After all, it’s a small world.

  • Chaitanya Ramachandran, Legal Counsel-India, Twitter, on technology and law, and his experience

    Chaitanya Ramachandran, Legal Counsel-India, Twitter, on technology and law, and his experience

    Chaitanya graduated from NLSIU in 2009. After a successful stint at Clifford Chance LLP, he went on to pursue his Masters at Stanford Law School, with a specialisation in Law, Science and Technology. He is currently Legal Counsel (India) at Twitter, where his role entails managing litigation in courts throughout India, drafting and negotiating commercial agreements for all Twitter products, services and partnerships, advising on Intellectual Property, Privacy and Data Protection law, developing and enforcing robust corporate governance policies, and developing and delivering training programs on Twitter policies and processes for both internal and external audiences.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • Marrying law with technology
    • His experience at Twitter

    What would you like to say to our readers in the manner of an introduction of yourself?

    I’m a technology lawyer and work for Twitter, where I lead the Legal function in India.

     

    What inspired you to take up law?

    I was always interested in computers and technology, so as a senior school student I did briefly consider engineering. But I noticed that hardly anyone I saw studying engineering in India actually ended up becoming an engineer; the “engineers” all seemed to end up in finance, consulting, management, or pretty much anything other than actual engineering. So I quickly realized that it wasn’t for me. Around the same time (this would have been around the 10th standard), I started to become interested in law, largely owing to interesting and vigorous debates in the media about the controversial laws of the time (the Prevention of Terrorism Act being a notable one). I also knew a few seniors who had been admitted to the five-year law programs, and their accounts of law school life sounded very appealing to me! I’m not a first-generation lawyer, but my family was quite supportive.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law at NLSIU.

    I have fond memories of my five years at NLSIU. I wasn’t particularly fixated on academics to be honest; it was the non-academic pursuits that captured my imagination. Quizzing was foremost – I have always been a quizzer, and NLSIU has a very rich tradition of quizzing. It was an honour to have been part of that tradition, and to have been part of Bangalore’s quizzing scene, which is India’s finest. Another interest that developed at NLSIU was writing – I wrote a few articles on technology law, and was involved with the publication of the Indian Journal of Law and Technology (IJLT) in its formative years. I also spent a LOT of time listening to music and discovering new artists and genres! Looking back, it was a fun, relaxed time when I was mostly free to explore whatever interested me.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I don’t think I was very serious about my internships. I did one per year, which was the minimum amount required. Three of those were litigation internships in Delhi, where I experienced every level of practice from trial up to the Supreme Court. While I worked with some truly accomplished and supportive seniors, I realized that litigation as a career wasn’t for me. I didn’t enjoy the chaos and wastage of time that are an inescapable part of the day-to-day practice of litigation in India, nor did I see myself thriving in the increasingly aggressive milieu of the Bar. So more than anything else, my internship experiences steered me away from a potential career path – not that that’s necessarily a bad thing!

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    Go with your gut. If you are reasonably engaged with what’s happening at law school, you should find your inclinations emerging naturally during the five years. As you learn what interests you, seek out more research, writing or internship opportunities in that field, and if you can, reach out to people in the field to learn more about what they do. Perhaps most importantly – don’t do something just because other people are doing it. That’s probably the single worst reason to do anything.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Clifford Chance LLP. 

    The transition was difficult. In addition to the transition from student life to working life, I also had to contend with the transition from India to a completely new culture. But my main motivation in signing on with Clifford Chance was to experience living and working overseas, so I met the challenge willingly. What appealed most to me about the big London law firms was that all trainees are required to rotate through three or four practice areas in the first two years, which gives you a pretty comprehensive overview of legal practice when you’re fresh out of law school. I also got the chance to spend half a year in Brazil on secondment, which was a fantastic experience. These experiences built my confidence in being able to do business across borders and cultures, which is central to what I do today. In retrospect, another thing I appreciate about these early experiences is that one tends to develop good working habits in the type of demanding work environment that firms like Clifford Chance offer, and these stay with you later, even if you eventually choose to move on to something different.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I didn’t have a mentor, which I suppose isn’t surprising because I became interested in technology law when it was a brand-new, mostly unknown field, and nobody was making a career out of it, at least in India. It really took off in India only about five years ago, and today there’s no shortage of people in the field whom law students can seek out for guidance. Based on my experiences, I don’t think it’s necessary to have a mentor. What’s important is getting to know yourself and what makes you tick, and creating opportunities for yourself. A strong drive and quality work product will help you get noticed. I’ll also add that I’ve been very fortunate to have had some extremely supportive bosses at every stage of my career – at Clifford Chance, Amarchand Mangaldas, and now at Twitter – who have encouraged me to follow my chosen path and provided sound advice when I needed it.

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LL.M?

    Two things. The first was that I knew relatively early in my law school career that I wanted to make a career out of technology law, and a specialized degree seemed like a good way of embarking on that path. The second was that I wanted to experience a foreign academic culture and learn from the world’s leading minds.

     

    How did you keep up with the challenging academic rigor at Stanford?

    I think attending Stanford has been the single most important decision that I’ve taken in my career to date. “Rigor” is the right word – the LL.M. was a very demanding course for me. But staying motivated was never a problem; US law schools allow you to design your own LL.M. program, so I was only taking courses that I was genuinely interested in. “All killer, no filler!” In fact, the real problem at Stanford was that I was interested in more courses than I could realistically take during the LL.M. year, so deciding which courses not to take was a conundrum. Stanford Law School allows you to take courses outside the law school as well, so for the first time in my life I was able to experience a bit of non-legal higher education! Another standout part of the Stanford experience was that my professors were all world-renowned authorities in their field, and my fellow students were an extremely accomplished bunch, so the classroom environment was excellent. That encouraged me to put in the work to be able to come into the classroom and hold my own, day after day.

     

    How would you compare your LL.M experience with your under grad legal education in India?

    The difference is stark. The pedagogical cultures are fundamentally different. Five-year law schools in India are focused on classroom teaching. The vast majority of your time as a student in a US law school is spent in self-study, and you come into the classroom to both refine and question what you have learned on your own. US law schools make huge demands on your time with respect to reading, and focus much more on primary materials including case law and statutes. This helps greatly with the transition from studying to practice, as knowing your way around a judgment or statute is such a fundamental skill in practice.

     

    How did you come to work with Amarchand Mangaldas? 

    Having tossed my hat over the wall of technology law, I wanted to work with a practice that would allow me to specialize in this field. The team at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas (which was still AMSS at the time I joined) was in the process of building out their technology practice (which was then housed within the policy and regulatory practice), and I saw this as a good opportunity to start the next phase of my career. Over two years at SAM, I got to do some very interesting work with a client base that included some of the world’s leading tech companies, and was also exposed to industry bodies and Internet institutions like ICANN and ISOC, which I remain engaged with today. I also had two incredibly supportive bosses in Mr. Shardul Shroff and Mr. Sandip Beri, who encouraged me to pursue my chosen path and gave me the opportunity to prove myself.

     

    How do you deal with the massive challenges of representing one of the most important social networking sites world over?

    (Chaitanya is Twitter’s first Counsel in India.)

    It never gets boring, that’s for sure! Twitter is a unique place, and I never cease to be amazed by the ways in which our users are constantly reinventing how they use our platform; to joke, to speak up (or speak out), to connect with like minded strangers, to share information at the speed of light, to stay connected with what’s happening in the world. I often have to deal with difficult legal issues where the law provides little to no guidance and there’s no ready solution, which is precisely the kind of challenge I thrive on. It’s also a privilege to work for a company that shares my own values – that free speech is valuable and worth defending. I always find my work engaging due to the inherent nature of Twitter; the legal issues I encounter are closely connected to current events in India and beyond. When work gets especially demanding, I stay motivated by remembering that what we are doing is giving every person in the world a voice –an idea that has gone from being absolutely unthinkable to indispensable reality within my own lifetime. That’s powerful stuff.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on? 

    These days, as an in-house lawyer, I don’t have much room to choose – I have to deal with whatever crosses my desk! Though as someone who has always wanted to work in tech, I find most issues I come across at Twitter very interesting. In previous roles, I definitely tried to build up a corpus of work in my chosen field, and was fortunate enough to have access to clients that offered exactly the type of work that I wanted to do. I’ve learned that you must proactively seek out the type of work that you want to do – don’t count on it finding you. While fresh-faced graduates may not have a huge amount of choice right off the bat, this becomes easier to do with more experience.

     

    Could you take us through a typical working day at your office?

    I don’t think I’ve had a single day at Twitter that has gone perfectly according to plan! Nevertheless, to give you a representative example, I typically start work early and catch up on my inbox and the news. I try and reserve technical work like marking up an agreement or reviewing a litigation draft for this time of the day, when I’m at my freshest. I may have a Hangout scheduled for mid-morning with one of my internal business clients, where I’ll bring them up to speed on the current status of their ongoing deals, and learn about other deals that are in the pipeline. I may then move on to reviewing requests from various parts of the company that I need to approve; these could be anything from supplier contracts to press releases to creatives for an upcoming ad campaign on the platform. While my colleagues and I always talk about having a sit-down lunch at one of the many restaurants nearby, this mostly remains a pipe dream, and I usually only have time to grab something from one of my favourite shops or food trucks and catch up on Twitter or The Economist. Post-lunch, I may have a regular Hangout scheduled with one of my international counterparts in the Legal organization, after which I’ll usually try and check off the remainder of my list of goals for the day – perhaps complete a piece of legal research, respond to a customer or internal client, or work on an internal company policy or process that’s being updated. I’ll then try and beat the notorious NCR traffic on my way back home, where I’ll resume attacking my list and catch up on my inbox. Later that night, I may have a cross-time zone call with our headquarters team and outside counsel to set our strategy and prepare for an upcoming court hearing. I’ll hopefully end the day feeling that, while not everything may have gone to plan (there are always surprises and emergencies that you can’t account for), I made meaningful progress on my goals for the week.

     

    What books, judgements that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    I’d say my philosophy has been strongly influenced by the writings of three lawyer-statesmen: Thomas Jefferson, for his conception of individual liberties and their central role in society as well as his mastery of the written word; Jawaharlal Nehru, whose idealism and clarity of purpose shone through vividly in his writings; and Lee Kuan Yew, whose warnings about the essential fragility of civilization and the dangers of populism seem especially prescient in 2017.

    With respect to my day-to-day work, a book that has influenced me greatly is High Performance with High Integrity by Ben Heineman, which I was introduced to as a student at Stanford. It is essential reading for in-house counsel, and I strongly recommend it to anyone who is interested in this line of work.

     

    What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel in this industry?

    I think the key skill for in-house lawyers is being a good listener. The outcome that we are always pursuing is helping our business colleagues achieve their goals while simultaneously protecting the interests of the company. Listening well helps you identify potential risks and ask the right questions. An added benefit is that it helps you learn something new every day, especially at a large, diverse company where you’re surrounded by colleagues working on amazing stuff that’s well outside your comfort zone as a lawyer. The only way to develop this skill is to practice it everyday.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I’ve learned that you have to make the time for the things you value in life – no one’s going to hand it to you. Music is my first love; when I’m not at work you’ll probably find me playing or tinkering with one of my guitars.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in law?

    On Twitter!

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I don’t know how qualified I am to give advice, but since you’ve given me a soapbox, I’d encourage anyone reading this to be original and follow their own interests within (or outside) the law, wherever they may lead. I often turn to a great quote by Phil Knight that has pride of place outside the Stanford Graduate School of Business: “There comes a time in every life when the past recedes and the future opens. It’s that moment when you turn to face the unknown. Some will turn back to what they already know. Some will walk straight ahead into uncertainty. I can’t tell you which one is right. But I can tell you which one is more fun.”