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  • Amrapali Satpathy on studying LL.M from Cornell University, being a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance and experience in litigation

    Amrapali Satpathy on studying LL.M from Cornell University, being a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance and experience in litigation

    Amrapali Satpathy graduated from Delhi University with an LL.B degree before practising at the Supreme Court. She was awarded with the “Scroll of Honour” for “Promising New Advocate of the Year” by the Hon’ble President of India at the International Conference of Jurists. She then worked at United Lex, Gurgaon, followed by the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus, Los Angeles and Clifford Chance LLP, New York. She is currently studying for her LL.M from Cornell University.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying law at Delhi University.
    • Being a Senior Associate at CPA Global.
    • LL.M from Cornell University.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background.

    I am a simple girl who believes in traditional values while possessing a modern outlook. I am from Cuttack, Odisha. As a child I travelled quite a bit, and got to visit a lot of countries since my father is a Merchant Navy Captain. Travelling all over the world from such an early age helped me to develop a very wide and tolerant perspective about life and people in general.

    During the course of such travels I also made many friends globally and understood different cultures and way of life. At the same time my values as imparted by my parents, helped me to be very grounded and from a very early age I learnt to take deep pride in the diversity and magnitude of our Indian culture and traditions while respecting every other culture in the world. Part of my primary schooling was in Singapore from the Siglap Education Centre. When I was seven, we shifted back to Bhubaneswar, Odisha where I completed my higher secondary studies and was the state topper.

    Later my family shifted to Delhi. My inherent love for English made me complete my higher studies in English Literature with Honors and distinction and my childhood desire to be a lawyer made me study LL.B, which I passed with good grades and high merit. Currently I am completing my Masters in Laws (LL.M) from Cornell University in New York, USA.

     

    How did your interest gravitate towards law?

    My family has always encouraged me to be a lawyer. Two of my uncles are lawyers, and so was my grandfather. Books have always been my greatest influence after my parents. The subject of law and imparting justice has always fascinated me through my readings of various books on the subject. As a child I was absolutely caught up with Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, and Perry Mason while as a teenager I enjoyed reading Catherine Barnard’s ‘What About Law’ and Amartya Sen’s ‘The Idea of Justice’. Back then I perceived the law as an indestructible, infallible weapon which had the power of liberating the society from all kinds of misdeeds. Although as a teenager I did get a little cynical about the judicial system, nevertheless I always had this belief, which was strengthened as an adult, that no matter what, the law when used by the right people in the right manner has tremendous potential to bring forth the right result and guide society in the right direction. I could join my father’s business, I could be an astronaut, an actress, a model, an engineer etc. In short I could do anything and be anybody. But if there was any profession which allowed me to be in control of my life and at the same time possess the power to help people and society, it was the legal profession. As a lawyer I could have the freedom of interpreting the law in the manner I wanted and then implement it for the betterment of society. And that’s the very reason why I chose this profession.

     

    You have completed your law graduation from Delhi University. Tell us about your law school experience and the co-curricular activities you took part in?

    Studying law at Delhi University was one of the best and most memorable experiences of my life. More than anything else, it brought me in contact with people from extremely diverse ages, economic backgrounds and social beliefs. One of my classmates at the Faculty of Law was a 69 year old gentleman who was a doctor by profession, but wanted to study and understand the Indian law since he was going through some property dispute with his brothers. Then there was this lady who was a teacher at a primary school but wanted to study law so as to get a better paying job as a lawyer in order to support her family, who were entirely dependent on her. My educational experience at Delhi University was truly an eye opener for me, in the sense that I got to see and understand different people, all belonging to the Indian society yet each was so different from the other.  Their differences added colour and variety to the atmosphere at Delhi University, which I don’t think can be found at any other educational campus. I was the convenor for the legal aid society and also headed the dramatic club. Both these roles were extremely enriching. As the convenor of the legal aid society I arranged legal aid camps for the slum dwellers at Yamuna Pushta and as the head of the dramatic society I arranged street plays addressing sensitive, yet less talked about issues in our society like female infanticide, domestic violence and incest. I love debating and was in charge of the debating society for some time where I participated in and arranged college and inter-college debate competitions.

     

    What skills did you get to hone as the Secretary of the Student’s Debating Association and Dramatic Society and also as a   Convener of the Legal Aid Society?

    More than anything else my involvement in these societies made me a people’s person and a team player. Today these are the two skills which have helped me forge lasting friendships and be a good listener while being able to work effectively as a lawyer amongst different kinds of people.

     

    After your graduation, you worked in the Supreme Court. What has been your perspective of litigation in India? Have you found in overrated in any way?

    Sadly the field of litigation in India is quite gender biased and dynasty based. Gender biased in the sense that even today while the courts give judgments for empowering women, yet the very same lawyers at these courts look down on practising female advocates and belittle their talent and knowledge. Unless you are a woman belonging to a very reputed legal based family, it is almost extremely difficult to make a decent entry into the field of litigation. Which reminds me of the admiration, adulation and work opportunities which are bestowed on some freshers, only because of their connection to such reputed legal families, while there are lawyers who slog away their entire life finding clients willing to pay them a decent amount in exchange for their services. Still, I don’t think litigation is an overrated career option. There are always exceptions to the rule and I also firmly believe in hard work paying off sooner or later. Like I said earlier that no matter what, the law when used by the right people in the right manner has the tremendous potential to bring forth the right result and guide society in the right direction. What matters is that the right people should not give up.

     

    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first few sessions in court. Has it become more difficult for a fresher to achieve success?

    There is an immense sense of responsibility, pride and self satisfaction when you are standing in front of a judge to a packed courtroom and fighting for your client’s rights. In the current scenario, yes it is definitely becoming more and more difficult for freshers to achieve immediate success in this field, unless you are extremely well connected. However, hard work, patience and perseverance coupled with ambition always bears fruition in the long run, if not immediately.

     

    What was the role of a mentor in your case? How important do you think a mentor is in the field of litigation?

    Frankly, I had no mentor, except my parents who have always been my greatest source of motivation and support. Since I had no mentor, I personally cannot speak about it, since I personally don’t know about it. But yes, speaking pragmatically, a good word of recommendation always helps in advancing your career in any field and the field of litigation is no exception to this rule. But then again, if you are talented, ambitious and hard working you can still make a mark without any mentor.

     

    What motivated you to leave your litigation practice and join United Lex an LPO?

    Although my family is extremely well connected both politically and many of my family members hold reputed positions in the legal field, yet my parents were absolutely clear from the day I joined the legal profession, that no matter what, they would never ask any of their connections for any professional assistance for my career. I agreed with my parents and respected them for this decision. At the same time it was extremely difficult for me to get interesting cases in order to further my career, because without having anybody to vouch for my credentials it was extremely difficult to get important cases. Also, truthfully speaking I was getting bored with the simple quality of the cases I was asked to deal with, while my seniors took charge of the more challenging ones. It was at this point that I got an offer from United Lex asking me to join their corporate department and provide legal services to their overseas client British Telecom. Apart from being extremely interesting, the job profile was something which I had not done before. Hence I took the bait and joined United Lex as Associate for Contract Management.

     

    You have worked for one year at United Lex. What had contributed towards this appointment? Tell us about your work profile at United Lex.

    LPOs have a very tight budget which depends entirely on their international/national clients. Depending on this budget LPOs determine the salaries of their employees. That’s one of the reasons why LPOs rank number one in hiring freshers because then they do not have to pay these freshers higher salaries. Since I was in the litigation field and had no corporate experience, I was treated as a fresher by United Lex and my remuneration was paid according to the industry standards of a fresher. At the same time I had the knowledge and confidence required for this role and that contributed towards my appointment.

    Working at United Lex was a very good experience. As an Associate of Contract Management, my responsibilities encompassed handling the entire contract lifecycle management process which included reviewing of complex agreements, and drafting and negotiating a wide variety of agreements ranging from NDAs, MSAs, Procurement Agreements, Framework Agreements, Software License Agreements, etc. each of which were unique in their structure and level of complexity. The work experience at United Lex was very dynamic and interesting.

     

    After United Lex, you went on to the University of California, Los Angeles (Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.)  as a  Visiting Scholar. How did you get appointed at University of California as a visiting scholar? What was your role and what are the responsibilities you were entrusted as a visiting scholar?

    As a legal counsel for my father’s business venture, I had to travel a lot to Los Angeles where one of our clients had their offices. While there, one of my relatives told me about UCLA’s course for visiting scholars. Since I had to be there for many months at a time, I decided to look this up online and later visited the campus. The course was fast paced and quite interesting. It would add value to my Resume apart from increasing my knowledge. There were no formal certifications as such, except a transcript of all the subjects which I studied there. Since I was not getting any formal certification, yet I was taking classes with the LL.M and JD students and I was also giving the exams, my designation was that of a Visiting Scholar. UCLA comes up with these exchange programmes and summer courses which are really good because you get to learn about international law without getting hassled about degrees and certificates. Since I was in Los Angeles primarily as legal counsel for my father’s organization, I really didn’t have too much time to take on added responsibilities at UCLA. It was mostly work, study and seeing the lovely places in Los Angeles. It was a cool experience and Los Angeles was a beautiful place.

     

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    You have also worked at the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus (Los Angeles, USA) as a paralegal for four months. How did you apply? What did your work profile consist of?

    While at Los Angeles, I thought it would be a good idea to work for an international law firm and get an idea how the legal process works in the US. I looked up for any vacancies at law firms in Los Angeles through online U.S. employment portals and came across this opportunity at the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus. I applied online and was selected after being interviewed. My work profile involved mostly researching on core  legal issues and assisting the senior attorneys with drafting and vetting of complex legal contracts, conducting comparison, risk analysis, and due diligence of complex contracts.

     

    What does being a Paralegal mean? How different is it from being an Associate at a law firm?

    Paralegals are not allowed to offer legal services directly to the public on their own and must perform their legal work under the supervision of a senior associate. Usually lawyers who work in a foreign country are initially hired as paralegals because they do not have the requisite knowledge and understanding of that country’s law and legal process. Hence they are not permitted to give legal counselling or take up cases in courts for the clients. Where an associate is expected to deal with the entire legal process at an organization, from counselling clients, to going to courts and drafting contracts and negotiating, a paralegal’s work is only limited to giving assistance to the associates on various legal issues.

     

    Thereafter, you have also worked as a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance LLP (New York, USA). What does Summer Associate mean? How is this position valuable to a law student?

    A summer associate is just another synonym for an intern in the US. As a designation, a summer associate of course sounds cooler than an intern. Summer associates are current law students who are interning at a law firm or organization for the summer. Summer associates have not passed the bar exam and are not lawyers. This position holds the same value as that of an intern. It’s not a job guarantee but if you are interning at a reputed law firm or organization, the brand name looks great on the Resume and can attract prospective employers into calling you for an interview. Also if you have worked really diligently you can even get hired by the same firm for which you interned, provided of course there is a current vacancy, which is usually rare because the attrition rate at such reputed firms is very low.

     

    Also, please brief us about your work profile as a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance LLP.

    My job profile as a Summer Associate with Clifford Chance LLP involved assisting the senior attorneys on structured debt including CLOs, securitization, small balance commercial mortgages, RMBS and covered bonds.

     

    Meanwhile, you were also associated with Amrapali Exports Pvt. Ltd. [your father’s startup venture], as a Legal Counsel. What does Amrapali Exports do? Tell us about the nature of work you were entrusted with therein.

    Amrapali Exports provides legal solutions to a Singapore based corporation. My responsibilities included managing multiple client environments and various accounts as Legal Counsel for my father’s startup venture. I dealt with prospective clients by interacting with the key sponsors in various multinational companies and drafted corporate and commercial agreements. I also extensively advised on post execution enforcement issues, exit options under joint venture agreements, compliances under the companies’ law and FDI regulations.

     

    After serving at your father’s startup venture, you have joined CPA Global as a Senior Associate. Please walk us through your appointment procedure and interviews. Also, tell us about your work profile at CPA Global.

    The HR Manager at CPA Global contacted me after going through my work profile on a leading online Indian employment portal. They briefed me about the job description which involved giving legal solutions to a leading overseas metal and mining corporation. The work was challenging and interesting. Also since my father’s startup venture was doing really good, I was interested in seeking further challenging opportunities with global organizations so as to further increase and enhance my knowledge. I was selected after the requisite number of interview rounds. My responsibilities included contract drafting and database maintenance, contract review and redlining, contract template creation and revision, contract negotiation and approval support.

     

    Were you doubtful before joining Cornell University? Why did you prefer Masters over your job?

    I have been interested in a Master’s degree in Law ever since I was studying for my LL.B degree at Delhi University. It has been on my mind for the longest possible time but somehow the time was never right. I didn’t simply want an LL.M degree to adorn my already quite impressive repertoire. My desire for pursuing an LL.M degree was to further complement my existing knowledge with an understanding of how to implement my knowledge on an international platform. For that, I obviously needed to gain practical work experience as a lawyer. That was the reason I waited for a few years and got the necessary experience before venturing out to get the much coveted LL.M degree. A Master’s degree in Law, from a reputed university can do wonders to your career prospects, provided you know how to use the knowledge you have gained in order to further your career by putting yourself at par with other globally acclaimed lawyers at an international level.

     

    How did you choose Cornell University over others? How did you go about choosing a university?

    Cornell University is an Ivy League University which is one of a kind just as Harvard, Colombia, Upenn, Princeton and Brown Universities. My criteria for choosing which universities to apply at was primarily based on the institution’s intrinsic reputation, online reviews and from what my seniors who had completed their LL.M abroad, told me. I was selected at the London School of Economics, the National University of Singapore, both Colombia University and University of Pensylvania. However, I chose Cornell because of its reputation for conducting an extremely limited, unbiased and exclusive selection process based entirely on a student’s merit and intelligence. I was also quite keen to study at Cornell, because of its reputation of offering interesting legal courses coupled with the freedom to choose the subjects depending on a student’s individual interests. Cornell also has some of the world’s best teachers in the field of law. Luckily due to my incessant hoping, the blessings of my parents and God’s grace, Cornell selected me and I was offered a place in its prestigious LL.M degree.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    While writing my SOP, I stayed clear of artificiality and repetitiveness. I was honest to myself and tried to convey my career goals and my interests as lucidly as I could. SOP is giving the other person an insight into your career goals, your interests and motivations and most importantly an insight into the kind of person you are. It’s important to be true to yourself and your goals while writing an SOP. The same should be conveyed in a simple yet dynamic choice of vocabulary. Simplicity of language is one of the key factors while writing an SOP.

     

    How about recommendation letters? Who all recommended you to pursue LL.M?

    Recommendation letters are an essential requirement while applying to universities abroad. My teachers at Delhi University very kindly recommended me for my application to the LL.M degree course abroad.

     

    What is your topic of research for LL.M? Why did you choose that subject for research?

    I chose two major topics for my research dissertation while studying for my LL.M degree. Both were original research papers for which I was awarded High Honors and was applauded by my teachers at Cornell University. My first topic of research was on the ‘Global Financial Crisis of 2008 and its effect on Legal Process Outsourcing.’ Though a lot of research has been conducted on the reasons behind the financial crisis of 2008 and its aftermath, yet I found that there was no satisfactory research which explained the connection between the financial crisis and the growth of the LPO industry. My second topic of research was ‘Seeking A Permanent Solution to the Rohingya Crisis.’ The Rohingya are a stateless population belonging to the Northern Rakhine State (formerly Arakan State), who are amongst Burma’s ethnic, linguistic and religious minority groups. The Burmese government has consistently denied this community citizenship status. Their exceptionally harsh treatment by the Burmese authorities and their condition as a persecuted minority has been a topic of international discussion. What amazed me was the fact that this issue had been so prolonged and without any solution still. I gradually conducted a lot of individual research on this issue. Apart from helping out with various non-profit organizations working for these refugees, I also ensured that I took active interest in letting the general public know about this problem. My inherent interest in international law and human rights has ensured my continuing interest in this cause.

     

    Please tell us a little about your academic schedule and the general experience of studying abroad? How different do you think it is from the pedagogy that Indian Universities follow?

    The academic schedule at Cornell University is very well charted out, giving the students enough time to conduct self study and participate in various scholastic as well as extra-curricular activities. Depending on what subjects you take your classes can start as early as 8:45 in the morning and end at 10 in the night. Since students are not encouraged to take more than 13 credits per semester, most students have an easy schedule. I personally had 18 credits for one semester, but due to the amazingly co-ordinated manner in which the classes were scheduled, I found that I still had ample time on my hands to do as I pleased. Indian Universities put a lot of value on study by rote method, which is not the case at Cornell. At Cornell rather than remembering cases and citing important legal judgments, we were expected to give our own personal opinion on whatever we studied. That opened up a lot of opportunity for thinking as a lawyer while still preparing as a student. Also before each class, we had assigned readings to do so that we would be able to get what the teachers are saying in class. The teachers, as a rule do not teach from the book. Rather, they have a Socratic manner of imparting education, whereby each student is called and asked for an opinion on the topic assigned for that particular day.

     

    Does Cornell University provide students with scholarships? Are there any other institutions, which provide scholarships?

    Cornell University does provide financial aid to deserving candidates. I am not so sure about scholarships though. Usually educational institutes abroad do not provide scholarships, but there may be exceptions. Instead, they give financial aid as and if required by an applicant. For this the applicant needs to show proof of requirement for the financial aid.

     

    You are about to finish your LL.M from Cornell University this year. So, what next?

    I am planning to take the New York State Bar exam soon. In the mean while, I do have a few job offers, two of which are from reputed software companies in India for the position of Legal Counsel, one is from a leading law firm in Singapore, and two are from real estate companies in the US. I also have a job offer from a newspaper publication in the UK, but for that I need to take a few exams in order to be eligible to practise law in the UK, and I am not too keen on that. And yes, I have an offer from Google but the position is based out of Tel Aviv, Israel. Depending on the circumstances and the remuneration offered, I shall make a decision soon.

     

    What led to your academic and professional achievements?

    (Amrapali was awarded “Scroll of Honor” for “Promising New Advocate of the Year” by the Hon’ble President of India, at the International Conference of Jurists while pursuing her graduation from Delhi University. She was also awarded High Honors for writing original research papers on “Global Financial Crisis of 2008 and its effect on Legal Process Outsourcing” and “Seeking A Permanent Solution to the Rohingya Crisis” at Cornell University.)

    My academic and professional records have been flawless. I have always been an exceptionally bright student scoring good marks throughout my academic career. As a lawyer I have always given my best to all my legal assignments. During the course of my education at Delhi University and my then ongoing internship at the Supreme Court of India, my name was recommended for the “Scroll of Honor” by my teachers at Delhi University and my seniors at the Supreme Court of India. As for being awarded High Honors for my research papers at Cornell, both my papers were original in their subject matter and analysis, apart from discussing issues of international relevance.

     

    Could you enlighten us, in brief, about your role at Arakan Project  and  Samarpan Foundation as a part of your Volunteering activity beside your  professional life.

    As a volunteer for the Arakan Project, I mostly worked towards ensuring that the Rohingya refugees in India were being given a decent lifestyle with access to health and education facilities. While volunteering at the Samarpan Foundation, I worked towards giving proper legal aid to the erstwhile refugees at Yamuna Pushta.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    Five years from now I see myself having started my own law firm or legal consultancy. That’s a dream which I hope I can achieve. Let’s see.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    No matter which ever profession you are or choose to be in, make sure you enjoy what you do. If you love your work, 60% of the battle is won. The rest 40% depends on your hard work, patience and passion. And of course as in everything in life, 1% depends on God’s grace or luck, but this 1% can actually go towards making or breaking your career. You will see the signs. If in spite of giving all your hard work and dedication, you are still not reaching that desired point in your career then maybe it’s time to do some serious thinking and perhaps make a career switch. It’s never too late for that. On another note you will meet a lot of people. People will try to pull you down and there will also be people who will encourage you. My advice is to greet all kinds of people with a smile on your face and to always be cordial to everybody. Be dignified at all times and never ever compromise on your ideals. Keep your calm in the face of all odds and don’t let failure touch your heart or success go to your head. All the best.

  • George Pothan, Legal Consultant, Ministry of External Affairs, on work experience, LL.M from King’s College and studying law at JSS, Mysore

    George Pothan, Legal Consultant, Ministry of External Affairs, on work experience, LL.M from King’s College and studying law at JSS, Mysore

    George Pothan Poothicote graduated from Christ College, Bangalore with a B.Com degree before going on to complete his LL.B from JSS Law College, Mysore by 2010. While in law school he interned at several places including Ernst & Young and High Court of Kerala. He pursued an LL.M from King’s College, London and finished his masters by 2012. Immediately after completing his LL.M he came back to India and was appointed as Legal Consultant to Legal and Treaties Division, Ministry of External Affairs, Govt. of India, New Delhi and he is currently working there.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at Mysore University.
    • LL.M from King’s College, London.
    • Internships, recruitment and work at Ministry of External Affairs

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your pre law-college years. What motivated you to study law?

    Born in Mysore, I spent my early childhood dividing time between Mysore and Wayanad, and thereafter left to board at Montfort School, situated in Yercaud, a hill station in Tamil Nadu. I went on to do my B.Com at Christ College, Bangalore, LL.B at JSS Law College, Mysore and LL.M at King’s College, London.

    Hailing from a family of lawyers, I grew up imbibing into my very system the lawyers’ lingo and vernacular, and naturally felt drawn to the profession. Therefore, it was a firm and solid choice to become a lawyer myself.

     

    How would you describe your time at Mysore University? Tell us about the academic environment and faculty at the law department of the University.

    The experience was intense and extremely enriching. The student body was intellectually dynamic, with representatives from around the country and even abroad. The faculty included both full time academics and professional practitioners. They were very approachable, and inspired hope, ignited imagination and instilled a love of learning in their students.

     

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    Did you take part in activities apart from your regular curriculum? What all did you do as a law student?

    I participated in practical applications of what I learned, and textbooks gradually came to be of secondary importance to me. In conference settings, at moot courts and in practical classes, I had the opportunity to observe stellar lawyers and law students and noted how effective they were as participants, not only because they possessed superior knowledge, but also because they seemed to instinctively know how to handle a variety of difficult scenarios. Every evening of my final year, I visited the chambers of a senior advocate in Mysore. Also, every Saturday that year, I travelled to a village 35 kilometers from the city to provide free legal aid services and out-of-court settlements, as well as to spread legal awareness.

    My participation in National and International moot court competitions ignited my passion for the field of international law and also enabled me to interact with students and faculty from around the world. I assisted in research work for the scion of the Mysore royal family in the dispute over assets of the royal family and the abolition of the Privy Purse. Later, I helped to draft an anti-ragging bill which was presented to the then Governor of Karnataka. I also represented the college in various seminars and conferences.

    While being good in academics was the most important function during my days at law school, engaging in extracurricular pursuits was a close second. I did indulge in sports and had the privilege of representing my class and college teams in cricket and volleyball.

    My objective during my LLB days was to do my best whilst maintaining a healthy balance and letting other things beyond my control take care of themselves.

     

    Do you believe that excellent CGPA is absolutely necessary for success?

    An excellent CGPA, or any other measure of academic record, can assist in furthering academic pursuits and optimizing the initial recruiting process. That said, the microcosm of university and the world at large are as different as chalk and cheese. In universities one learns the theoretical aspects of law, but for success in the practical applications of the work environment, top grades are not a prerequisite.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation (LL.M)? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Constitution, Criminal Law, Arbitration and International Law were some of the subjects that interested me during my LL.B days. The experience I gained through moot courts, assignments and conferences, as well as my interactions with a number of inspiring people, led me to develop a particular fascination for International Law, both private and public.

    I had long been keen on pursuing an LL.M in International Law, but participated in a variety of modules before finalizing my subjects. My subjects were a combination of Public and Private International Law and International Commercial and Business Law, which may appear to be quite a broad spectrum for the course level. However, the subjects were not as disparate they seem. They included Terrorism and State Violence, World Trade Law, Use of Force, Commercial and Investment Arbitration, and Negotiation. What is especially interesting is the intimate relationship between International Law and Diplomacy. My curriculum combined both.

     

    Please tell us about your internships during your graduation.

    Internships and building work experience had been a consistent part of my academic pursuits during my years as a law student. At the end of my first year in law school, I was able to reinforce my tax related knowledge through an internship with Ernst & Young in their Global Tax Analysis service department in Bangalore. At the end of my second year of law school, I gained invaluable court experience with Honourable Justice R. Basant, a Senior Judge at the High Court of Kerala. I shadowed him closely and was privy to the procedures of the chambers of a High Court Judge, which gave me access to the judge’s files, notes and discussions. I felt particularly privileged as this was a rare opportunity for a student.

    During my final year, I visited the chamber of Advocate KL Sugandhi, a senior advocate in Mysore, which involved interacting with clients, learning procedures and even contributing to work on the cases.

     

    Do you believe branding of college is something that’s very relevant/ important at any stage in a law student’s career?

    Branding seems to have become as inevitable in the field of education as in business. That said, it should be taken with a bucket of salt. Power on the professional battlefield is determined by hard work and dedication above all.

     

    When and how did you decide to pursue Masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavour out of academic interests?

    From the beginning of my law education, I had entertained the idea of pursuing an LL.M degree. That said, I never viewed it as a professional requirement, as I had initially been keen on a career in litigation, for which an LL.B would suffice. Over the course of my LLB, I pondered over the subjects I would like to pursue, and shortlisted the Universities that seemed best suited to my interests.  The LL.M was a great adventure that enabled me to set sail to shores more magnificent than I had ever imagined.

     

    You have done your LL.M. from Kings College London. Please share your experience. Any other university which offers a similar combination of modules?

    It was simply amazing. I was taught and inspired by some of the best professionals in their respective fields: Professors. Martin Hunter, Salim Moollan, Samuel Wordsworth, Dr. Federico Ortino and Dr. Piet Eechout, to name a few. I still am in touch with most of them both at personal and professional levels. Whenever I felt the need for an expert opinion or guidance, these professors were most helpful. The course combined theory with practical applications. The whole system was different from what I was familiar with at the LL.B level. In addition to textbook learning, there were group discussions, debates and lots of interactive sessions, with an emphasis on research. We were encouraged to write papers and discuss them.

    I still have fond memories of a workshop conducted by Prof. Martin Hunter, visits to his chambers at Essex Court Chambers and a Friday clinic he used to organise. Another unforgettable experience is the time I spent at the WTO, where I was able to interact with key people of the WTO Secretariat and Country representatives, and gain valuable insight into the incredible operations of such a hallowed institution.

    There are other Universities that offer such modules, but I am not in a position to recommend them.

     

    How will you compare the pedagogy at Mysore University with that of King’s College, London?

    Comparing the pedagogy at Mysore University and King’s College is tricky because I attended them at two completely different levels. The LL.B is a basic degree in law, structured primarily to meet the general requirements of practitioners in the field. An LL.M is an additional qualification that involves specialization, and as such the structure of the LL.M diverges from that of the LL.B.  During my LLB, most of my professors were full time faculty, whereas during my LL.M, the majority of lecturers were practitioners in their respective fields, and their experience and expertise did make a difference.  A good teacher always brings out the best in his/her students. I consider myself lucky to have been mentored by the right kind of teachers.

    Diversity was perhaps the most significant difference between the two programs. At King’s College, the faculty and the University at large catered to a crowd from across the globe. The student community at Mysore University was primarily Indian.

     

    Looking back, how significant do you think that your legal education was? When did you happen to experience the learning curve?

    I believe that my education in its entirety has made me who I am today. My legal education in particular has been significant in shaping my career, and my analytical view of the world.

    As I see it, the learning curve starts from the earliest stages of life. Every single day has presented learning opportunities. I think, therefore I am; I live, therefore I learn. The slope of my learning curve in the legal field took a surge towards the latter part of my LL.M program, and continued to steepen when I entered the Ministry of External Affairs, where I have interacted with some of the best legal minds in the country and around the world. The Senior Official Meetings, Ministerial Meetings and Summits of which I have been a part were incredible experiences. One particular case that gave impetus to my learning curve was a brief I received from Mr. Gourab Banerji, the then Additional Solicitor General of India, during my early days at the Ministry. It was my first significant case, and it was an exciting challenge. More recently, I have had the privilege of being involved with the Law Commission of India in its work on investment treaties, which has been quite insightful.

    I look forward to the continuing intellectual stimulation of my work. Learning is an integral part of the profession, as it shifts like the sands of time.

     

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    You joined Ministry of External Affairs as a Legal Consultant; what worked for you in getting appointed?

    I assume that my academic pursuits and passion for the profession, in addition to the support I received from the then External Affairs Minister, Mr. Salman Khurshid, who had faith in my ability and trusted me with such great responsibility, led to my appointment.

     

    What are the career opportunities at MEA like?

    The MEA provides excellent opportunities for those interested in the international dimensions of law. We deal with treaty negotiations and international law disputes. Diplomacy is integral to the mix. That said, our work is not exclusively on an international level, as we do examine domestic law issues on occasion.

     

    Are Legal Consultants allowed foreign postings? How does their work interact with that of the Indian Foreign Service?

    Foreign postings are certainly available to those belonging to the Legal Cadre of the MEA. The Hague headquarters the International Court of Justice and the Permanent Court of Arbitration. Geneva and New York City are bases for numerous international organisations.

    The responsibilities of international law and diplomacy require a great amount of interaction with foreign service officers and other government representatives.

     

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    Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of a law firm and legal department of the govt. offices?

    Most certainly, although I am not in a position to comment in depth on private law firms, as I have never worked in one. In the Government, everyone works for the Government of the day, and the work is not limited to legal issues. The tasks at hand are quite complex: they involve participating in drafting legislation, policy making, negotiating treaties and a variety of other roles. Most importantly, working for the Government means representing the Country and promoting collective rather than individual interests.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at MEA? What are the qualities which they look for in their prospective employees?

    It starts with sending the completed form in the requisite format, along with references, to the Ministry to the Administrative Division (or any other Division that interests a prospective intern). From there, the applications are considered on merit. It is generally difficult to accommodate all applicants considering the huge volume of applications usually received. Details on applying for an internship at the MEA are enumerated on the website of the MEA.

     

    Have you ever considered starting up on your own?

    Starting my own practice has always been at the back of my mind. If I start my private chamber practice, I would focus on litigation before the Supreme Court, High Courts and Tribunals.  Considering my LL.M specialization and current work, I would be keen to pursue an active practice in investment arbitration, as well as international and domestic commercial arbitration.

    I firmly believe that there is potential everywhere, and it is about looking out through the window of opportunity. Talent finds its happiness in execution. Simply follow your heart, make the right choices and be dedicated.

     

    Please tell us about the requisite soft skills which are essential for a young lawyer to build a successful career?

    Communication skills, which are essential in any profession, are particularly valuable for a young lawyer. An open line of communication with colleagues assists in efficiency and securing solid relationships. Clarity, charisma and discretion must be kept in mind when dealing with clients.

    Commitment is important, given the heavy workload of young lawyers, and the established standards of excellence.

    Creativity is an immense asset, as innovation and thinking outside the box aid in problem solving and negotiation.

     

    What are your views on the future of Indian legal education? How would you suggest that a law student manages to stay ahead?

    I would like our institutions to compete with the best in the world. There is no dearth of resources in India, but we have to make optimal use of them. I hope to live to see the day our institutions are ranked among the best in the world, and pray that it is not far away. We need to support academicians in their pursuit. I personally am of the view that institutions should create a platform to bring in greater interaction between practitioners and students. The greatest asset of any educational institution is the character of its teachers. We need to encourage research and avoid spoon feeding. Classrooms should be about imparting knowledge and not forcing one’s views on the others. Students should be prepared to face the world outside beyond the realms of the microcosm of universities. I would suggest encouraging research and more practical classes and workshops. They are the need of the hour. The legal fraternity has to come together and support our institutions with a clear roadmap for the way ahead.

     

    What are the three things you consider law students should do in their careers?

    To me, goals should be set individually, and not based on what someone else has achieved. Be yourself, as they say. The markers of success vary, but generally, I would say that it can be achieved by staying focused, working smart and being organized. Professional mileage can be optimized with perseverance, perspiration and a stroke of luck.

     

    What would be your parting message to young lawyers?

    Here I would like to borrow from Mr. Fali Nariman, who lists the following in his autobiography “Before Memory Fades”:

    • A lawyer’s opinion should be honest and responsible,
    • A good lawyer should acquaint oneself with relevant law, including case law on the subject at hand,
    • One should be clear and precise, not confused,
    • One should keep oneself informed and up to date with all the reported judgments and decisions of the Supreme Court and High Courts,
    • A lawyer should be well prepared for his case.

    A lawyer must never stop learning, for intellect demands clarity and certainty. That said, circumstances render uncertainty inevitable and fascinating. In an ever changing world, progress is proportional to the capacity to endure uncertainty.

    One’s name is a prized possession in this mortal world, which through our acts, deeds and achievements can be immortalized and etched in the minds of generations to come.

     

  • Bijetri Roy, Associate, Banking and Finance, Orbit Law Services, on LL.M from Queen Mary and studying law at Calcutta University

    Bijetri Roy, Associate, Banking and Finance, Orbit Law Services, on LL.M from Queen Mary and studying law at Calcutta University

    Bijetri Roy graduated from Department of Law, Calcutta University with B.A. LL.B (Hons.) in 2013. During her law school days, she wrote more than eight research papers. After graduation, she pursued an LL.M from Queen Mary, University of London, where she was also a member of the Editorial Board of the Queen Mary Law Journal. She currently specializes in banking and finance laws among others at Orbit Law Services, Mumbai. In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying at Department of Law, Calcutta University with B.A. LL.B (Hons.).
    • Application, SOP and Recommendation Letter for Queen Mary, University of London.
    • Recruitment and work at Orbit Law Services, Mumbai.

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I am Bijetri Roy, a Bengali by birth, brought up in the royal Awadh city of Nawabs, Lucknow. My father has a transferable job and I have had the opportunity of staying at many beautiful places (most of them being famous for their food and culture!). London became my home away from home in just a year. I currently live with my parents in Mumbai and I am working as a Banking and Finance Lawyer at Orbit Law Services.

    I am the first lawyer in my family, belonging to a household of a banker and economist father and an English teacher mother. I started reading Perry Mason at the age of 12 and the sleuth-attorney influenced my young mind to take up law. Law became my first choice and my parents encouraged me to take it up seriously. I completed my ISC in 2008 and took the Calcutta University entrance examination in May 2008, secured a good rank and enrolled at the Department of Law.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience at Calcutta University. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    Though a lot of people warned me against studying law at a traditional university instead of an “elite NLU”, I decided to take my call on the matter, and it was the best decision of my life to enrol at a simple law school. I agree we didn’t have the “right” infrastructure, no placement cell and too many people cramped in each batch (we were 200 people in the 2008-13 batch), but despite these issues, the five years at the law school gave me the some of the best days of my life. Classes were irregular at times, but interesting and regular lectures by Prof. S.S. Chatterji (IPC, Contracts) and Dr. J.K. Das (Constitutional Law, Human Rights Law) made me forget the drawbacks of the college. The high point of my law school days was getting selected for Honours after 2nd year (my average of 3rd to 5th year shot up to a good first class). The selection was purely on merit basis and there were only 50 seats for honours in a batch of 200. Getting to study a wide variety of subjects ranging from Law and Child, Criminology and Gender Justice to Law and Public Servants and Legislative Drafting was an enriching experience for me.

     

    What do you feel about the perception that students of certain ‘elite’ NLU’s have a much easier time in kick-starting their career as compared to law students from other colleges? Is this true at all?

    I would not like to comment much on this because it is quite a subjective perception. Though a certain “class” of students easily get internships and jobs at the top firms and organisations (as per hearsay – I don’t know many people from the NLUs so I am not sure about it), it is ultimately merit, basic foundation and most importantly, interest in that area of practice that matters. But yes, if one goes by the current market trends, top tier firms and big companies prefer to hire the “elite” ones! But then again, trends are never constant, right?

     

    Are you still involved in research and writing papers? Which are the latest ones you have submitted and where?

    Till now, the count is over 12. Last month I submitted a research paper titled “Financial Inclusion in India: Policy Framework for Inclusive Growth” for a forthcoming conference at IIM-Bangalore. This month I submitted an abstract for my research paper titled “Corporate Governance and Investor Protection – Importance of Legal Audit” for the India Finance Conference to be held at IIM-Calcutta.

    I have presented more than 8 papers during my BA-LLB days including at conferences at the top NLUs like NLIU Bhopal and NALSAR Hyderabad. Recently, I presented 2 papers, one at ILS Pune at the National Conference on Revisiting Freedom of Religion and Personal Laws from Liberty and Equality Perspectives and the other one at the International Conference of Jurists and Writers which was held in Mumbai.

     

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    What was your motivation behind pursuing LL.M. right after your under-grad? How did you finally decide that you need to do masters?

    During my 3rd year, I decided I wanted to do my masters in law immediately after my undergrad. I took this decision because I did not want to have any gap in my academics and once you take up a job, it is very tough to take a break and pursue higher studies.

     

    How did you choose Queen Mary, University of London over others? How did you go about choosing a university?

    I applied to Queen Mary, University of London based on its rank in UK for law (when I went there in 2013, it was among the top 10, currently it is ranked number 3 in UK right after Cambridge and Oxford, and number 1 in London – The Guardian 2014-15, 2015-16 rankings for law). I had decided from day 1 that if I study in UK, it has to be in London University. By the time my 4th year results were out, I had offers from Queen Mary, Westminster University, Birkbeck School of Law under London University and Brunel University (these were the only places I had applied to – I was lucky enough to bag offers, including an unconditional offer from Westminster University even before getting my final BA-LLB result!). I had my dream come true moment when I got an unconditional offer from the place of my choice – Queen Mary.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    SOP (Statement of Purpose) is nothing but an essay about yourself. I used the first paragraph to talk about myself in general, then moved on to my academic achievements and extra-curricular activities. Next I laid emphasis on why I wished to study LLM, why UK, why London and why Queen Mary. I used the last paragraph to talk about my career goals (try to be as honest as possible; do not inflate your goals while writing the SOP).

     

    Please tell us about your recommendation letters.

    While most colleges ask for 2 recommendation letters, Queen Mary is flexible with it. I was able to manage only 1 letter during my application process and that did not hinder my offer from Queen Mary in any way. A professor wrote my recommendation letter.

     

    Tell us about your LL.M year at Queen Mary, London. How did this influence your career?

    My experience at QMUL was the best I could have ever dreamt of. Professors are very approachable because they do not follow the age old notion of differentiating teacher from students.  During my study, I had the opportunity of regular interaction with world class professors like Dr. Rafael Leal Arcas,  Dr. Alexandros Ntovas, Dr. Gomula (a visiting professor from Cambridge), Prof.Spyros,  Prof. Anne Flanagan to name a few.

    My specialisation was public international law. Queen Mary offers a wide range of modules to choose from. I took up modules which mainly belonged to other specialisations. I studied International Economic Law, International Law of the Sea and Climate Change Law and Policy. Apart from academics, a lot of emphasis was laid on overall development; I was suddenly all over the place, working as a Media and Communications Coordinator for the QMUL School of Law, attending meetings and sharing ideas (and pizzas!) with the academic and non-academic staff as a member of the Student-Staff Liaison Committee, as a postgrad member of the QM Law Journal to name a few.

    Classes were 2 hours thrice a week, so I got the opportunity of exploring the beautiful city of London and places around London. When I wasn’t exploring places (and trying out different cuisines!), I spent my time at the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies (IALS) Library and the QMUL Mile End campus.

     

    What was your topic of research for LL.M? Why did you choose that subject for research?

    I did my dissertation on the topic “Trade Liberalization and the Poor – a policy framework with special emphasis on India”. I chose this topic because it gave me the chance of researching beyond the syllabus of WTO in the Economic Law module. I had the opportunity of doing my dissertation under Professor (QC) Geraldine Van Bueren. . I scored pretty well in it too!

     

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    How difficult was studying abroad in terms of finding accommodation, finances and settling in?

    I was lucky enough to get a food inclusive accommodation at the London University intercollegiate halls (Hughes Parry) just a few blocks away from Kings Cross station. I am not very fond of shopping so I saved almost all the money I had taken with me (the only things I spent on were text books, boots, eating out and for my trips to places within and outside London).

     

    How was your experience as a member of the Editorial Board of the Queen Mary Law Journal?

    As a member of the Editorial Board of the Queen Mary Law Journal, I was able to get a clear idea of how papers are peer reviewed and selected. I had the opportunity of reading some of the best research papers and articles by masters and PhD level students from different countries and various universities.

     

    After returning to India, you started working at Orbit Law Services as an Associate. How did you go about bagging this job?

    I was looking for boutique law firms specialising in banking and finance and came across the website of Orbit Law Services. I applied by sending a cover email and my CV, and I got a call from the partner within 3 days (this was like an indication from Lord Ganesha that I was almost in there!). I was called for an interview which was conducted by 4 partners, and after a day I was informed about my selection. The selection process is very transparent. The firm prefers to give opportunity to graduates from traditional universities over NLUs.

     

    Tell us about your current work profile and why did you choose to work with Orbit Law Services?

    I am an Associate at Orbit Law Services, Mumbai. I always wanted to join a boutique law firm which specialises in Banking and Finance laws, and for me this is the best place to start and grow professionally.

     

    What are your main practice areas?

    My main practice areas are Banking laws, Project Finance, Infrastructure,Power projects, Energy projects, Corporate and legal due diligence (I recently conducted a 3-days legal audit at an asset reconstruction company in Mumbai on behalf of my law firm).

     

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    How is your experience so far? What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    The best thing about Orbit is the fact that Partners personally guide me. All 5 partners have decades of experience and have been associated with well-known banks and big corporate houses.

    Apart from the usual “lawyer” work, I am involved in business development and knowledge enhancement work as well. So along with learning the core work areas, I am also learning overall entrepreneurial management. Due to the encouragement of the partners, I have been able to whet my research and writing skills further (I regularly write articles for our firm’s internal news circulation and discussions with everyone during lunch time).

    Every day is a new day in terms of work; I get the opportunity of learning new things on a daily basis, whether through core legal matters and assignments which come my way from clients (mostly big banks, NBFCs and authorities etc.) or through research suggestions by partners for my personal development.

     

    What are your future plans? Where do you see your career in the next 5 years?

    I plan to continue here at Orbit for the next 4-5 years. I see myself as an expert (and maybe a Senior Associate by then!) in Banking and Finance laws by the time I am 30!

     

    Lastly, any suggestions for aspiring first generation lawyers like yourself?

    Take up law only if you want to, not because your peers or seniors have taken up law! Law is a vast ocean, and whatever is taught during undergrads is merely a few drops! Choose your law school wisely. During your undergrads, attend at least 2 to 3 conferences and present papers, the claps that you get from the audience comprising professors and stalwarts will be like a boost for your confidence. Even for your postgrads, choose the course, institution and country (in case you wish to study abroad) wisely, don’t hurry with your selection.

    All the best to all the readers, and thank you Super Lawyer!

  • Pratyush Nath Upreti, Advanced Masters, (LL.M) Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management at Maastricht University, on pro-bono work and the KIIT Law School experience

    Pratyush Nath Upreti, Advanced Masters, (LL.M) Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management at Maastricht University, on pro-bono work and the KIIT Law School experience

    Pratyush studied law from KIIT Law School, Bhuvaneshwar, he graduated in 2013. Being a citizen of Nepal, he chose India to pursue B.Sc. LLB. After the successful completion of his bachelors, he is pursuing Advance Masters (LLM) in Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management from Maastricht University, Netherlands on a scholarship. He had interned extensively through the years of law school and published nearly 30 articles in The Kathmandu Post. In this exclusive conversation with Pratyush, we talk about:

    • Education and experience at KIIT Law School.
    • Selecting the appropriate publishing companies for his journals.
    • Interning at Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL), Bangkok,
    • Being a Member of New IP Lawyer’s, a wing of School of Law and its research centre called SCule (Science,Culture and the Law) under the University of Exeter, United Kingdom.
    • Undergoing exchange programmes at The Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market of European Union (OHIM), Spain
    • Pursuing LLM in Intellectual Property Law and Knowledge Managment from Maastricht University, Netherlands.

     

    Tell us a bit about your pre-college life. How did you choose to study law that too in India? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I come from the Biratnagar, city of influential leaders in Nepalese politics. Being the youngest child of my parents, I began the journey of my student life by following my elder sister’s footsteps to one of the most prestigious schools of the city. In school, my inquisitive mind as a young student ran into almost all nooks and corners of the colorful life. I was not a great student but lived my life into the realm of education.

    When I finished my intermediary, civil war in the form of a Maoist insurgency ended with the signing of the comprehensive peace agreement and formation of a Constituent Assembly. Nepal was in transitional phase(still in transitional phase), we were taking the first step towards building a constitutional democracy. During the phase, many friends opted to go abroad for higher studies which were never an option for me.

    When I decided to peruse law there were very limited option in Nepal. Moreover, India is also not far away from Nepal, it was a convenient option. I was also attracted by the unique integration of law and science. So, I decided to join the B.Sc.LLB(Hons) stream in KIIT Law school, a newly born law school with a colourful dream, like that of mine of marking a mark of its own in the highly competitive legal arena.

    Yes, I belong from a legal background, my father is a senior advocate practicing in Nepal and my grandfather served as a Judge of Nepal. I think I represent the third generation of lawyers in my family.

     

    While in KIIT Law School you selected B.Sc. LL.B as your stream. What would be your advice to law aspirants about choosing a stream? Did it give you an edge over B.A. LL.B graduates? Does it have a long lasting effect?

    In recent years, legal education has rapidly changed. The unique integration of law and science is an attractive career option. The law and science offer plenty of opportunity in the sector of forensic science and Intellectual property law. During my short working experience, I have felt that there are high demands for lawyers with scientific/technological backgrounds. Anyone interested in B.Sc.LL.B should keep in mind the course structure of the college offering the course. Make sure they have good science faculty and if you are interested in taking biotechnology as a major then well-equipped laboratory is important. I was the first batch of B.Sc.LL.B(Hons) course in my college, but I had some laboratory works. Fortunately, My university had separate well-equipped Biotechnology faculty which was an additional advantage for me. Since, there is not much of crowd of lawyers with knowledge of both the field, a B.Sc.LL.B(Hons) graduates do have an advantage from a job perspective.

     

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    If I were a young law student who never wrote an article, how would you advise me to get started given that you yourself wrote a lot?

    To be honest, I never pre-planned to write an article. Most of my articles are the outcome of my project which I did during law school or internship. Choosing a topic which is contemporary is important for publishing an article. I suggest law student to identify contemporary legal issues and continue as a project for the course. If you do your research honestly, then certainly you will end up publishing.

     

    How would you select a specific journal and approach them for publication? What are the things you look for in a journal before sending them your article for publication? Can you tell us the steps involved in researching and structuring an academic paper?

    Selecting a Journal is not easy, there are two important things, which I look before sending an article. Firstly, the journal timeline for a review process. When you research honestly, you get ambitious about the project and really want to publish in good Journal. But sometimes, a long review process of the journal is really frustrating. There were few Journals who replied me after a 15 months. It was really painful! But as a student you should never be discouraged by rejection or late replies. Before sending your article, it is important to know about the Journal well( just email and ask about timeline for review). Secondly, I see the focus area of a journalif your topic matches those area’s or related contemporary issues than your acceptance chances are really high.

    There are generally accepted ways of researching and structuring the paper. For me research is important, I try to gather as much of information from various sources like books, Journal, reports, internet etc. Once I gathered information, I tried to find contemporary issues/problem involved and put my thoughts in a logical way and roughly draft a research outline which will help not to divert from focus area. For any writing may be a newspaper or academic journal structuring is important. Your writing must reflect you thoughts and every section need to clearly link. Mostly importantly for academic writing reference/bibliography/footnote is very important. Generally, accepted standard structure includes Abstract, Introduction, research question, discussion (arguments advanced), conclusion/recommendation and bibliography.

     

    How did you plan your internships and how did you go about applying for these internships?

    (Pratyush has interned quite extensively through his 5 years at law school. Some noteworthy mentions are Anand and Anand; Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL), Bangkok, Thailand; Singh & Associates, Advocates and Solicitors; Sycip Salazar Hernandez & Gatmaitan Attorney At-Law, Philippines; The Ministry of Home Affairs, Parliamentary Affairs, Constituent Assembly and Culture, New Delhi, India; Enviro Legal Defense Firm, New Delhi, India and other places as well.)

    Early planning is very important to secure a good internship. Mostly, I planned my internship at least a 6-8 months before. This is important because, you can never depend on one organization or law firm. You need to file a several application. The application process depends completely on the institute which you intend to apply. Most of the organizations where I interned had similar recruitment pattern, I just applied online with a short cover letter and resume.

     

    What kind of work did you typically find yourself doing as an intern? Did your experiences vary significantly with the internships?

    I had a diverse internship experience. My task and workload as intern completely depend upon where I was interning. In law firms, I had long working hours and mostly I ended up doing a lot of draftings, research on several issues and assisted litigation team. Some of the research which I did in the law firm was published in law firms in-house Journals. On the other hand, in an organization you mostly do research work, they will make you involved in the ongoing project. During my school, I was fortunate to do two international internships. First, at Sycip Salazar Hernandez & Gatmaitan Attorney-At-Law, one of the biggest law firms in Philippines where I was involved in commercial and Intellectual property division. I mostly assisted the team with the prosecution of trademark, patent registration, review of technology transfer arrangement, franchise and distributorship agreement etc. Second, at ANFREL, I researched on several electoral issues and assisted drafting team of ‘Bangkok Declaration of Free & Fair Elections’. During my stay, I also got an opportunity to observe the election. It was a great learning experience.

     

    What comprised your work profile as a Legal Researcher at the “Forum for Protection of Public Interest (Pro-Public)”? Please share with our readers.

    Forum for Protection of Public Interest (Pro-Public) is one of the reputed organization in Nepal. It has a long history of contribution to socio-legal development in Nepal. Pro-public gives an opportunity a law student to voluntarily associate with the organization in different capacities. I was fortunate enough to associate myself with the organization during law school.

    During my undergraduate, I had an experience of research work. At law school, I worked as research assistant in University Grant Commission (UGC) main project titled “ Use of Forensic Science in Criminal Justice System: A futuristic Project”. Similarly, I did some research work for Cobalt Business Counsel Professional Corporation, Ontario, Canada for few months. Furthermore, my research internship with Enviro Legal Defense Foundation, Nepal Law Commission, and The Ministry of Home Affairs, Parliamentary Affairs, Constituent Assembly and Culture, was largely based on legal issued related to Nepal. Maybe this gave me an edge than other candidates during the recruitment process.

     

    Thereafter, you have joined Asian Network for Free & Fair Elections (ANFREL) as their Legal /Liaison Officer. Do you think, it became easier to get appointed because you have interned earlier at ANFREL?

    I don’t think so, internship experience helped me to get the position at ANFREL. ANFREL is a professional organization, they have transparent and heavy recruitment process. I came to know about the vacancy through a Newspaper. I did go through a screening process and had a very long interview by ANFREL Secretariat. Luckily, I got through the interview.

     

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    What kind of work does ANFREL do? Please brief us about the nature of work and responsibilities you were entrusted at ANFREL.

    The Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) was established in 1997, as Asia’s first regional network of civil society organizations focused on elections and election monitoring. It strives to promote and support democratization at national and regional levels in Asia. Since it was founded, it has served towards strengthening the democratization of countries such as Sri Lanka, Nepal, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, East Timor and Indonesia.It is one of the most trusted and reliable International Election Observation Group globally. They mostly focus on three area: (i) Election observation (ii) capacity building (iii) campaigns and advocacy.As Legal/Liaison Officer, I was involved in providing legal assistance to the ANFREL Election Management/Observer team. During my tenure, I reviewed national electoral law and assisted the ANFREL team in making Observation manual and reports. In addition, I was also involved in organizing and co-ordinating meeting with several stakeholder, civil societies, and politicians and also observed Constituent Assembly Election. I must say, I had a wonderful experience working with ANFREL. They have great working culture and ethics.

     

    Right after ANFREL, you went for LL.M. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    Initially, I wanted go right after my graduation but later decided to take a break of a year. There is no reason as such, I always wanted to continue my studies and then focus in practice.

    How did you go about choosing which college to go to for your LL.M. and did you ever consider Indian colleges? Was it the course or the university which mattered for you?

    I was very clear that I want to do LLM in Intellectual Property Law from abroad. Since, I have spent five years at law school in India so I didn’t want to have similar quality of education. So, never considered Indian colleges. The First thing I did was listing of colleges which offer LLM in intellectual property Law. I applied to three universities; School of Law University of New Hampshire (formerly known as the Franklin Pierce Centre of Intellectual Property) USA, Queen Mary University of London, UK and Maastricht University. I was accepted in all three. I got the scholarship from Franklin Pierce and Maastricht University and opted later.

     

    Tell us about your LL.M year at The Maastricht University, The Netherlands which you are currently pursuing.

    I am doing Advanced Master in Intellectual Property Law and Knowledge Management. It is a unique master program for lawyers, non-lawyers, and those with a degree in science of technology. It is popularly known as IPKM. The Advanced Masters IPKM are fully accredited by the Accreditation Organization of the Netherlands and Flanders (NVAO). The IPKM MSc is furthermore accredited by the European Patent office (EPO) for EQE remission. In addition, IPKM is a member of the European Intellectual Property Institutes Network (EIPIN) and a founding member of the Pan-European Seal Professional Traineeship Programme.

    Maastricht University is known for the problem-based learning environment where students are personally responsible for their academic education. The IPKM is taught in a very closed group, where the student analyzes the problems through discussions, exchange knowledge. The programme is taught in socratic teaching, often using real-life cases, mock trials and assignment (mind it, it’s not a piece of cake, it will dig you into the subject matter which we need to submit before class). The tasks are further discussed and analyzed along with lectures during class. Basically, it was fun working within a diverse class, amazing study visit. To conclude, IPKM provides a lot of opportunity for learning and networking. If you want to excel in Intellectual property, IPKM is the right choice! Go for it!!

     

    How difficult was studying abroad in terms of finding accommodation, finances and settling in? Are there any scholarships for studying at the Maastricht University?

    Not at all! Particularly, at Maastricht we have a very friendly student service center (SCC) which helps the international student in finding accommodation if needed. I didn’t have a problem as such, I found accommodation through online. There are facebook pages which provide information on accommodation, and most of them are very reliable. Maastricht University do provide Scholarships for International Students which are available on University Official website. I was lucky enough to get a UM High Potential Student Scholarship, which really made my life easy.

     

    How is the faculty & academic schedule (your typical day) at Maastricht? Given your experiences how would you pit Indian students with their foreign contemporaries?

    The faculty staff in the IPKM are very diverse and immensely supportive. It includes professor and practitioner from different jurisdictions, most notably Europe, Asia, and the United States of America. We had a very intense module on US Copyright Law taught by Professor Edward Lee, Director of the Program in Intellectual Property Law, Chicago-Kent College of Law, United States. Similarly, some of module was taught by Professor of Queen mary University, the University of Nottingham, and few class were taken by European Patent attorney etc. In addition, we have series of IPKM expert lectures by practitioner’s which enlighten us on contemporary IP issues. My day starts with waking up, and riding to the library, preparing for classes and assignments. There is always a number of readings for class, which are expected to be discussed in class. Generally, I return very late from the library in fact library is my sanctuary) and then I have to try and cook which I really hate.

     

    Was there time enough for non academic pursuits at Maastricht? How did you find the study-life balance to be?

    Not really! IPKM is very hectic!! (That’s what you expect from competitive course) we get few days off in Christmas. But Maastricht is a beautiful place, there are several things to do besides academic. On balancing study-life, I am the right person to answer that, I always struggle.

    Tell us about the course structure of an Advanced Master (LLM) Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management at Maastricht University.

    The Advanced Masters in Intellectual Property Law and Knowledge Management (IPKM ) offered at Maastricht University Faculty of Law are designed to train graduates to work as legal practitioners or management in knowledge-intensive industries and research institutes. The IPKM offers two distinct degrees:

    (1) A LLM degree focusing on comparative IP litigation and/or entrepreneurship, valorization and IP management

    (2) A MSc degree for graduates of science and technology aspiring to become IP specialists, knowledge managers, or patent attorneys.

    The IPKM course is designed in three main pillars

    (1) the common course for both LLM and MSc student are taught together

    (2) mandatory course for both LLM

    (3) mandatory MSc track.

    Some of the intensive modules offered is Intellectual Property in USA and Asia, patent drafting, IP enforcement, Intellectual Property & Life science among others.

    For more information, you can visit

    (http://www.maastrichtuniversity.nl/web/Faculties/FL/AdvancedMasterInIntellectualPropertyLaw).

     

    How did you benefit from the different programmes you took up after admission to IPKM?

    (Pratyush underwent a couple of training and exchange programmes after he had secured admission at Maastricht University, some of which are Module on Community Trademark at The Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market of European Union (OHIM), Spain; Study visit at European Patent Office, Hague, Netherlands; Attending Congress of European Intellectual Property Institute Network (EIPIN) organized at Maastricht University and Max Planck Institute for Innovation and Competition.)

    IPKM as well designed course which aims to provide plenty of learning opportunities for the student. I had one module in University of Alicante in The Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market of European Union (OHIM), Spain, it was a great experience. The modules were taught by European trademark/design examiner and practitioners. Similarly, Congress of European Intellectual Property Institute Network (EIPIN) held at Maastricht and Max Planck Institute for Innovation and Competition/European Patent Office were two days intense discussion on contemporary Issues of Intellectual property Laws. In both, the event sessions were addressed by scholars from Europe and The United States. Personally, I really enjoyed these events, you get to know emerging issues in IP Law and also an opportunity for networking.

     

    Please share a few words about you being Member of New IP Lawyer’s, a wing of School of Law and its research centre called SCule (Science,Culture and the Law) under the University of Exeter, United Kingdom.

    New IP Lawyer’s is a network of young academic and practitioner in IPR. It is the initiative of Ph.D. student at the University of Exeter and have network representative at the University of Oxford. The network aims to encourage and facilitate discussion of the issues related to IP law both by lawyers and non-lawyers. Recently, the network successfully held the first annual conference: who owns the Arts and Sciences? At the University of Exeter where renowned academic like Professor Lionel Bently(University of Cambridge), Professor Charlotte Waelde among others were key speakers. The Newtork is relatively new, in a very less time it has received overwhelming support. New IP Lawyer’s is also aiming to organise seminar series and several academic event. Stayed tuned at http://newiplawyers.wix.com/newiplawyers

     

    Is writing is your hobby? How do you manage to write for newspaper on various issues beside your LL.M studies and other engagements?

    (Pratyush has published approximately 30 newspaper articles till date at The Kathmandu Post& among others, on various issues.)

    I enjoy writing it connects me with readers. I never took writing as a hobby, I started writing during my undergraduate. When I was studying in India, I always wanted to involve in socio-legal issues and give my opinion on such matters. The newspaper was the perfect forum to share my thoughts and involved in several issues happening in Nepal. After law school, I continued writing and still I regularly contribute on socio-legal/political issues in Nepal. It makes me happy when readers send feedback or point of disagreement on issues and it also helps to improve writing. I never take writing as a burden, whenever we come across interesting issues we always have an opinion, just that I gather my thoughts and write. Most important, writing gives me a lot of pleasure; I feel a sense of freedom.

     

    What is your responsibility as a student member of Maastricht University for European Intellectual Property Institutes Network (EIPIN).

    IPKM is a member of the European Intellectual Property Institutes Network (EIPIN). Every year few students are selected to represent as a student member of EIPIN where we get the opportunity to attend EIPIN congress and participate in the group projects. I was assigned with team project which consists of five student from Queen Mary Intellectual Property Research Institute(University of London), Munich Intellectual Property Law Center (MIPLC), Centre for International Intellectual Property (CEIPI) University of Strasbourg, Magister Lvcentinvs (University of Alicante). My team has already submitted our research project titled “Permitting Transformative Use and Copyright Law: The Case of Parody as Innovation” to EIPIN committee. It had a great time working together with fellow students.

     

    What are your future plans? How do you plan to use the experience and the knowledge gathered at Maastricht?

    I successfully defended my thesis, just winding up my course at Maastricht. Most probably I will be returning home in August, and practice litigation. Although, Intellectual Property regime is not very well developed back home which makes it more challenging to take IP as a career but again it give an opportunity to participate in the process to develop the field. The experience and knowledge gathered at Maastricht surely have given me in-depth knowledge about global IP practice which will surely help in instituting policy reform in Nepal.

     

    And any word of advice for all the young law students out there?

    Learn, question and make the most out of the law school. Make sure you enjoy your student life as well. Good luck!

     

  • Kirthi Srinivas, Associate, HSB Partners, on law school experience at ILS Pune and first year of graduation

    Kirthi Srinivas, Associate, HSB Partners, on law school experience at ILS Pune and first year of graduation

    Kirthi Srinivas holds a degree in B.SL, LL.B. from ILS Law College, Pune, he graduated in 2013. He has participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to his name. He was also the Convener of Corporate Law Cell at ILS which he had co-founded in his second year of law school and was also associated with ILS Law Journal. While in law school, he also managed to pursue Advanced Course in Copyright and Related Rights (DL – 201) from WIPO and Certificate Course in Competition Law & IPR from FICCI. Soon after graduation, he joined Indiabulls as a Management Trainee/Legal Office. Currently he works as an Associate at HSB Partners.

    In this interview, he talks about: –

    • His law school experience;
    • The importance of academics as well as co-curricular activities at law school; and
    • His experience at India Bulls and HSB Partners.

     

    Legal studies are still only a backup option for quite a lot of students. What motivated you to choose law as a career? How did you get through to ILS Law College, Pune?

    That is a correct understanding of the psyche,as a lot of students in India end up choosing technical/science or commerce stream after Grade 12primarily because of the career avenues it opens up.However, the trend is changing as a lot more students in India now understand that a legal degree offers anequally wide array of career options beyond court rooms.They recognize that the skills you pick up during law school and during initial years of practicecentres around skills like people management and added to that a lawyer’s ability to communicate effectively helps and these are skills which are at the heart of management skills andthus opens up an array of career option in other fields. Therefore, I agree with the statement in a historical context however, I believe that a career in law is now fast emerging as the primary option for a lot of youngsters in India for the aforesaid reasons.

    In my case, I had taken up science stream after Grade 10, and since, I do not have any lawyers in my immediate family I wasn’t aware of what it means to have a career in the legal profession, but my drift from science stream to legal profession was initiated by my interactions with my cousin who had just graduated from law school at that point in time and had started practising indirect taxation with Lakhsmikumaran and Sridaran at Delhi.Hearing stories abouthis experiences at work were quite interesting and sparked my interest in the legal profession.After some further research on my own I realized that legal profession had a lot to offer than the traditional clichés it is known for. Application to ILS, happened as a conscious effort as I had heard about the college from a school senior and it seemed a good place to study law. Apart from that the college is located in Pune which is known to be a college town.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at ILS? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    I believe that I had a balanced academic career at ILS, spread between academics and other extra-curricular activities which included being part of the editorial committee of the college law review, taking part in moot courts and being the convenor of the corporate law cellwhich I co-founded during my second year at ILS. I believe that maintaining a decent percentage or CGPA is desirable, but anything below that is not an end of the world scenario. I think percentages apart, a fresher needs to have skills such as willingness to learn in order to kickstart a good career in law as most of what you learn at law school are very theoretical in nature and will be unlearnt to accommodate for practical learnings which cannot be taught at law school.

     

    Did you have any such experience during an internship which helped you decide your career choice?

    Since ILS has a more traditional approach to testing and evaluation of the students, there was no concept of chapter-wise tests or projects or compulsory presentations etc., therefore theemphasis were on the semester exams. We had a 3 week preparatory leave prior to the semester exams and that took care of the preparation for the semester exams. So, the emphasis was always to score well in the semester exams in order to maintain a healthy aggregate percentage. Apart from that, as an addition to regular classroom academics I had enrolled myself in certain diplomas/certificate programmes thathelped me a lot.

    All my internships were with law firms and with a tax portal which included Mulla&Mulla& Craigie Blunt &Caroe, Crawford Bayley & Co, ALMT Legal, Taxsutra and Juris Corp and revolved around general corporate, mergers and acquisition, banking andcompetition/anti-trust areas of practice. Certain assignments which I carried out during my internship helped me develop interest in my current areas of practice. I feel that each internship taught me something new, but I am biased towards my internship at Crawford Bayley and Juris Corp for certain assignments which I was part of and which I thoroughly enjoyed and revolved my current areas of practice.

     

    What all activities did you participate in?  How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    I participated in moot courts actively in the first 4 years of college and later took up drafting moot problems/case studies.As my time at college progressed my interest gravitated towards organising events at college. In second year of college, I co-founded the corporate law cell, a cell whose aim was to have an informal discussion among the student body on the latest news in the world of corporate laws et al. Apart from the aforesaid, I have been part of the editorial board of the college law review.

    Answering the second part of your query, I feel extra-curricular activities were important in shaping me and believe were an integral part of my learning experience, I believe that there is no “one size fits all” concept when it comes to how a student goes about structuring their time at law school. Therefore, it is best left to the discretion of the students.

     

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    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My initial interest in law school revolved around international law, contracts, constitutional law as these were the initial law subjects taught to us and were quite interesting. However, over the course of my interactions with certainseniors and exposure I received during internship,my interest shiftedtowards corporate laws especially investment laws, mergers and acquisition and competition law. Developing interest is easy but sustaining it is the tough part. Writing research papers, articles, presenting at conferences are some of the options I explored. I think reading about these subjects both from a legal and a commercial perspective also helped.

     

    After graduation, you joined Indiabulls as a Management Trainee /Officer – Legal. What had contributed towards this appointment? What did you take away from your experience at Indiabulls?

    I was always interested working in-house for a while, but was reserving such an assignment after spending my initial years after graduation with a firm. The move to Indiabulls, therefore was as a matter of coincidence and happened as part of the placements facilitated by the college. The assignment revolved around dealing with compliances of a mortgages company. Since, my experiences prior to Indiabulls had been in the form of internships at law firms exclusively, working in-house at Indiabulls was unique. However, when I reflect on what it has taught me I would have to say working in-house lends perspective now more than ever as I can relate to being on the other side and can relate better to a client and thus I am equipped to provide appropriate solutions.

     

    After having worked at Indiabulls for 8 months, how did the shift to HSB Partners take place? How did you go about bagging this job? Please tell us about the recruitment process atHSB Partners?

    I had always wanted to start my career at a firm and then shift to an in-house legal department, but the reverse was true in my case. Therefore, I was on the lookout for an opportunity and heard that the firm was on the lookout for a fresher with about 1 year PQE at that point in time, added to that I wanted to focus on my areas of interest and the firm is known for its transaction and advisory capabilities in venture capital/private equity, m&aetc. and the firm has a strong clientele in South India which prompted me to make the jump. The recruitment process is quite simple and hassle free, and the firm gets in touch with prospective candidatesbased on the applications received and sets up an interview with a partner, it comprised of two rounds of interview in my case (both of which were technical in nature).The interview is based on the resume and latest developments in corporate law/regulations.

     

    Please give our readers some tips to perform well at a law firm interview.

    I think a law firm interview at a fresher level is designed to test your basic understanding of law, commercial awareness and common sense. First and foremost tip is to keep your resume short and relevant to the kind of opportunity you are targeting, therefore if you are interested in being a transaction lawyer your resume should be tailored to your internship experience relevant to that in case if you are a fresher. Second, you are expected to be well versed with every little detail in your resume e.g. If you have carried out a research during a past internship and the same is listed in your resume, you are required to know the position of law with respect to the same both from its historical and current standpoint.

     

    How tough were the first six months at your workplace?What are your day-to-day responsibilities? How is the experience so far?

    I wouldn’t say my first six months at HSB were tough. It was interesting from the standpoint of the kind of work/assignment I was exposed to. Work at HSB, generally happens as a product of debate between team mates and senior colleagues are helpful in shaping the discussion towards a productive outcome. The day-to-day responsibilities revolves around tracking various stages in which assignments are and responding accordingly. It involves reviews of opinions/documents, drafting a suite of documents based on the kind of assignment we are engaged in, client meetings and strategies in relation to the aforesaid. So, far my experience has been good. I think most of it is contributed by the variety of work we do and the clients we interact with.

     

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    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    I think it is very  important to stay well versed with the constant changes to laws/regulations in order to advice client’s effectively, so the obvious answer would be to proactively track certain government websites such as MCA, RBI, SEBI etc., apart from certain blogs to keep abreast with latest changes to policy etc. However, even if one does not proactively stays in sync with the latest updates, it happens as part of work when one has to read various policies/laws/regulations and changes to them while preparing opinions and drafting documentation.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes?

    The thumb rule in professional ethics which all lawyers follow is to keep our client’s work confidential. As a young lawyer, I have had my fair share of doubts but my strategy has always been “when in doubt consult your senior”. In my view, it is a better option to minimise errors/mistakes by holding back on the work/responding in haste especially if you are unsure or have a persisting doubt thus you can avoid a faulty decision from translating into an error/mistake.

     

    Does HSB Partners take interns? What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    HSB takes interns throughout the year. Interested applicant’s are required to send a short e-mail with their desired period of internship and attaching their resume, the relevant team in-charges subsequently get back on the availability of a slot for an internship. In general, if an intern has an open mind and willingness to learn coupled with the ability to work intelligently then their chances of getting a call back/ PPO increases dramatically.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    I think there are no generalist in law, there are several lawyers who tend to advise on variety of subjects but they too have their specialities through which they are recognized. Being a super specialist right from the start is not advisable because it is very difficult for a lawyer to be sure of their interest right from Day 1 of practice, as the profession is quite dynamic in nature and the scope of work keeps changing, in course of time it would be highly likely that everyone dabbles with multiple practice areas, therefore it would rather be desirable to have a handful of linked subjects/ areas of practice which one has interest towards and see what interests you better in the longer run and focus on those.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    I think that is very true. Most of what one learns at law school is oriented towards theory and is vital in laying a strong foundation towards principles that make up the subject. However, law as a subject is constantly evolving therefore it is in a state of constant flux and by that token a lawyer needs to constantly unlearn and learn new things to be able to stay relevant.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    For freshers specially and those who are thinking of taking up legal profession, the profession as such is slow in terms of growth as compared to investment banking, finance etc., so you will be required to have patience in order to succeed. Second, the other key principle to success in this profession is to work intelligently as opposed to working hard. Thus, it would be wiser to develop the proficiency in order to work faster to deliver with better/faster turn arounds for your clients without compromising on the quality of deliverables.

     

  • Varun Pathak, Manager, DSK Legal, on Law School experience at GGSIU & LSE, and varied work experience at Law firms and Litigation

    Varun Pathak, Manager, DSK Legal, on Law School experience at GGSIU & LSE, and varied work experience at Law firms and Litigation

    Varun Pathak graduated from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University in 2007. Thereafter he went to pursue Masters in Corporate Commercial Laws from London School of Economics and Political Science. Soon after returning to India, he joined Krishnamurthy & Co. as an Associate and later switched to the office of Amarjit Singh Chandhiok. He has also worked at Paras Kuhad and Associates as an Associate before joining DSK Legal as a Senior Associate in March 2011. Currently he works as a Manager there.

    In this interview he talks about

    • Law school experience at GGSIU and LSE
    • Work experience in litigation and law firm
    • Journey from Senior Associate to Manager at DSK

     

    Could you please introduce yourself, professionally and academically, to our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I am a Litigator and am happy to be one. I started off being a corporate lawyer but soon realised that my heart lay elsewhere. I loved the hustle and bustle of litigation which I had experienced during my internships. The thrill of arguing in courts regularly is what drives me every day and I love what I am doing. I am presently retained by DSK Legal, Delhi. The majority of work that I am presently handling deals with regulatory and court matters in the infrastructure sector, commercial contractual disputes, arbitration and some constitutional matters.

    I read law at Amity Law School, GGSIPU and thereafter completed my Master of Laws from London School of Economics and Political Science. Academically I have been a merit student and had a 2:1 grade both in my undergrad and graduate degree. I have participated in my share of moot courts, sports and other extra-curricular activities in my student career. They are all important but the most important aspect, which I realised after starting practice, was the importance of reading law regularly. There is no replacement for hard work. Other than legal reading one should also read material from other areas, whatever stimulates one’s brain. A good reading portfolio is an advantage to any aspiring lawyer. Developing reading skills is one of the most (if not the most) important attribute for a Litigator.

     

    What motivated you to gravitate towards law, as a discipline and a career? Tell us about your induction in GGSIU?

    My foray into the legal field was actually a combination of some serendipitous circumstances and some deductive reasoning. I was very clear in my mind what I did not want to do. So I eliminated what I did not want to do and then narrowed down my choices to a few fields which I thought I would enjoy. So law was one of the options that I foresaw along with a few other career options and as destiny would have it, the cogs feel in place and I joined Amity Law School, GGSIPU. I wanted to be in Delhi so GGSIPU was an obvious choice and arguably Amity Law School was the better institute amongst the constituents and therefore, I chose Amity Law School.

     

    How was your experience during your five years at GGSIU?

    My time at Amity Law School was a learning experience. Most of my class mates were very competent and there was a sense of positive competition which was very inspiring. Actually we were the fourth batch and had good seniors who used to guide and mentor us regularly. Most of my seniors and batch mates are doing well for themselves and are making a name in the profession. One of the most important experiences in my five years was the sense of camaraderie with my colleagues and batch mates which we all have carried into our professional careers.

     

    Soon after completing graduation, you went to pursue Masters in Corporate Commercial Laws from London School of Economics and Political Science. How did you decide to go for higher studies?

    Many of our seniors had pursued masters abroad, so their experiences were definitely a factor. I decided to pursue my masters because I wanted global academic exposure and wanted to interact and learn new approaches to dealing with complex issues. My participation in the Stetson International Moot Court at Florida had given me a flavour of the western approach so I decided to enhance my skills by pursuing masters at LSE.

     

    What should one do differently in college if he wants to pursue higher studies after graduation? Would you suggest having a brief work experience before applying for LL.M?

    In hindsight I would say that there are many things which can be done to improve your chances of pursuing masters at a premier institute. Firstly, one should start preparing for the application from the first year itself by building a varied repertoire of skills. Mooting and internships definitely help however, it is important to be focussed in your approach and it is better to apply to a handful of institutes after narrowing down your areas of interest than making frantic mass applications at the end of the fourth year. Further, please choose the professors of your intended course and do some research before you make that final application.

    With respect to prior work experience it is actually a personal decision for the individual concerned. Some institutes prefer work experience and definitely some work experience will provide you with some good perspective. However, I wanted to be done with my studies before I started practice so went for my masters immediately after my LLB.

     

    Please tell us about your time at LSE. Please share with our readers, the details about the academic pressure, faculty and campus life.

    LSE was a very good experience. The approach to academics was very different than what we are brought up on. The focus is on analysis and individual application of mind and reasoning. The faculty was some of the best in the world and professors were international authorities in their respective fields. My course in corporate commercial law was one of the best in the world. It was a very intense course with a lot of reading material. Being from a common law country it was not very difficult to adapt to the UK education system however, there were many things that I had to unlearn which I had picked up in our education system.

    My time at LSE was fun and I was part of the students’ body for our LL.M class. I also represented LSE in Willem C. Vis Arbitration Moot at Vienna. In fact, I also used to write for one of the students’ newspaper at LSE.

    All in all LSE was a great experience and taught me many things about myself.It helped me grow both as an individual and also as lawyer.

     

    What kind of responsibilities you were entrusted with at your workplaces after coming to India? How did you prefer litigation over law firm?

    (After coming back to India, Varun joined Krishnamurthy & Co as an Associate and later switched to Offices of Amarjit Singh Chandhiok as a Junior Associate.)

    I joined Klaw’s Mumbai office and started my practice under the watchful guidance of Naina Krishnamurthy and Shwetambari Rao. Both of them were great leaders in their own light and taught me a lot. However, my true love was litigation and therefore, I moved back to Delhi and started with Mr. Amarjit Singh Chandhiok. Mr. Chandhiok is an institution in himself and at his office I learnt my basics which haveheld me in good stead till date.

    At Klaw, I was reporting to Naina directly. Naina was the Managing Partner. The Mumbai office had just been started so I was responsible for dealing with clients and execution of work under Naina’s and Shweta’s guidance.

    At Mr. Chandhiok’s office I was responsible for assisting him in arguing briefs, preparation of notes, research, et cetera.

    Both the roles were completely different. At Klaw I was a corporate attorney whereas with Mr. Chandhiok I was a Junior Counsel. Since Mr. Chandhiok was a designated Senior Counsel and subsequently Additional Solicitor General of India my job was to assist him in arguing matters in the Court.

     

    Later you switched to Paras Kuhad & Associates, Advocates and worked there as an Associate for one year. What led to this shift?

    Paras Kuhad & Associates was where I started working as an Associate in a litigation team. I was reporting to Mr. Ravi Prakash there. I moved to DSK Legal along with Mr. Ravi Prakash in 2011.

    The overall experience was good and under Mr. Prakash’s guidance I started handling matters independently and started arguing regularly in various forums.

     

    Thereafter you joined DSK Legal as a Senior Associate and currently work as a Manager there? How did your appointment take place? How did the promotion happen?

    I had moved with Mr. Prakash in 2011 to DSK Legal. I have been with DSK Legal for more than four years and with Mr. Prakash for more than five years. I have grown as a lawyer and am happy where I am at currently. The designation of Manager was more a consequence than anything else. It was recognition of the fact that I was handling matters independently.

     

    What does a Manager at a Law Firm like DSK Legal do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    The role and responsibility of a Manager is to handle matters independently and assist the Partner whenever required. The role also involves some amount of mentoring and supervising the work of senior associates and associates.

    My typical work day involves going to Court and arguing a matter, meeting clients, drafting, reviewing the work of my juniors and sometimes briefing senior counsels.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a Manager at one of the most successful law firms in the country?

    The stressful part is management part where administratively things have to be taken care off. However, in a firm structure certain things are necessary and have to be followed.

    As a Litigator one has to work very hard because the gestation period is longer. I enjoy what I do and am able to make time for the things that are necessary and important.

     

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    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to get it appreciated?

    For me the willingness to work hard is very important.

     

    How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles in a corporate law firm?

    Business development skills are obviously important. We are a service industry and therefore, client satisfaction is of paramount importance. Business development is a necessary evil, one which must be nurtured and developed for continued existence.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Interns should try and shoulder more responsibility and try and execute assignments in the same manner like an Associate. Hard work and perseverance definitely get noticed.

     

    Do you feel that higher education helps a person to have a successful legal career?

    Higher studies provide you with a good perspective. It may or may not result in a successful career. That depends on your drive and motivation. My advice would be that study only if you want to and not because everyone else if doing it. The same is applicable with anything else.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Work hard and remember that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. There is no substitute for hard work. Tiredness is only a state of mind.

    Also please read the bare provisions of the relevant law every single time you work on a matter. Please apply yourself independently and do not follow people blindly, even if that person is your superior. After all the right to make a mistake and be stupid is everyone’s prerogative and Article 14 applies there as well.

  • Gaury Shetty, Founder, ADEPT on Legal Recruitments Consultancy and law firm job requirements

    Gaury Shetty, Founder, ADEPT on Legal Recruitments Consultancy and law firm job requirements

    Gaury Shetty is the founder of Legal Recruitment Consultancy firm, ADEPT. After completing her B.Sc. from the University of Mumbai, she was a client account manager at Adecco India and was simultaneously pursuing MBA from NMIMS. After leaving Adecco, she joined Executive Tracks Associates (ETA) as a Senior Consultant and further went on to become a Practice – Head at Hays Specialist Recruitment in their Legal / Accounting & Finance department. Her last assignment before ADEPT was as a Director at Unify Search Private Limited.

    Having such a diverse background made her ultimately choose the path to pursue her passion. In this interview she talks about:

    • Her graduation and MBA;
    • Her experience at Adecco, ETA, Hays and Unify;
    • Her motivation to start ADEPT; and
    • What law firms look for in their potential candidates.

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers by telling us where you grew and attended your school.

    I am a passionate and innovative soul. I am not made for the mundane and I realised this early in my career. I have been in Mumbai all my life, and did my entire education from here.

     

    Tell us about your graduation in B.Sc., IT from University of Mumbai. Also, please tell us about the Honours program and your college life experience?

    After high school, I wasn’t too sure what I wanted to do, but I was sure that I didn’t wish to pursue a normal graduation program. I had friends who were not sure about engineering.IT interested me and I picked up a B.Sc., IT program. IT was quite a boom then and I was part of the first batch to graduate from the program. We, being the first batch, were part of the learning curve along with the faculty involved. My college life taught me much about group studies, college festivals, sponsorships and moving on. It was then that I realised I was decent with selling – grabbing a few sponsors felt quite an achievement.

     

    After your graduation, you have joined Adecco India as a Client Account Manager. How did you secure your appointment? What does Adecco do and what was the nature of your work there?

    Adecco just happened to me. I had visited their office for a job and they hired me for an internal role. I had joined PeopleOne Consulting which got acquired by Adecco. I had joined there as a Recruitment Consultant and gradually moved up to become Client Account Manager in four years. Adecco is the largest staffing company worldwide. They are into HR solutions and operate in more than 60 countries.

     

    In between, while working with Adecco you have pursued MBA in Human Resource from Narsee Monjee Institute of Management Studies. What prompted you to pursue MBA in HR? Does an MBA degree after graduation help you in your domain?

    When I started working, I realised that I am passionate about people. I had decided to pursue a part-time course as I could not invest in a full-time course since it was expensive. The only thing that I had to decide was the stream of management that I would want to pursue, which was made easy through Adecco. I had quite a few seniors who were pursuing management and helped me make a decision.

    MBA in HR definitely adds value to the work I do. Being a Recruitment Consultant, I need to understand the language HR speaks, add value to my service and it definitely comes from management. We are “people-persons” and thus it’s important to realise different dimensions that the business demands. My knowledge and insight grew tremendously as I had classmates from varied HR backgrounds and they had so much to share. The faculty was great and NMIMS has a trimester system which allowed us to cover lot of subjects.

     

    You have worked at Adecco for more than 4 years and gathered considerable amount of work experience. How was your experience working there? Also, tell us what prompted you to leave Adecco?

    I started working in the ITeS space, looking for Customer Support Executives. I was moved to the Telecom space after the first six months, where I worked in Sales and Finance. Retail was booming in 2007, we started a new practice called Consumer Services and Retail. I started to manage Sales & Finance roles for Consumer Clients, e.g. Colgate Palmolive, Heinz, Cadbury and then penetrated into the Retail Market.

    We underwent an internal restructuring and my new team was not very welcoming. My team mates could not work in teams and it was stressful to reach out to such people. I find it extremely difficult to invest energy in people who can’t think beyond themselves. I have always believed in teams and collaborations. Thus it was a letdown and I decided to move on.

     

    Thereafter, you joined Executive Tracks Associates as a Senior Consultant. Tell us, how did your appointment take place at ETA? What kind of responsibilities were you entrusted with?

    I had a friend who started working with ETA, and he referred me to the MD. I was on my way out when this opportunity came by. My discussion with the MD was fantastic; it was that initial feeling that helped me join ETA. They had great plans and I was keen to learn executive search. I started to manage senior roles in Engineering, Telecom and Manufacturing.

    I worked closely with the MD to help him identify senior talent in these spaces. I was entrusted with the role of identifying great talent and helping them understand the job role. I was extensively involved in headhunting and mapping activities for specific roles.

     

    gaury-shetty-1

    You left ETA and joined Hays Specialist Recruitment in their Legal / Accounting & Finance department as a Practice – Head. What consisted of your work profile at Hays?

    I joined Hays as Senior Consultant for Accountancy & Finance Vertical. My role there involved collaborating with all the teams and assisting them in placing finance & accounting personnel (in-house roles). It was my responsibility to expand the practice base by looping in consulting firms and private practices in the domain.

     

    What does Hays look for in potential candidates for In-house Legal Department before recruiting them?

    (Gaury has worked on various In house Finance & Legal roles for clients across industries (Sectors like Life sciences, Engineering, Captives, FMCG, e-commerce etc.) while working with Hays [Recruiting experts Worldwide])

    What a recruiter looks in potential candidates is the USP of the recruiter. Hays or any other recruitment company provides you with a platform to function better.

    • Technical Fitment (desired skill set)
    • Cultural & Aspirational curve
    • Realise the NEED
    • Offer a SOLUTION

     

    Tell us about your achievements at Hays?

    (While working with Hays, Gaury had got three nominations which are Consultant of the year 2010 – 2011; Hays Elite Winner 2010 – 2011 [where Hays Represented Hays India for CeROW Elite trip to Budapest] and also nominated as a Consultant of the Month [Highest biller for Month])

    These achievements were the result of being extremely passionate about learning and delivery. I am an extrovert and at times people perceive it differently at work, they doubt your work capability.

    I wanted to differentiate myself from others. I grabbed every opportunity that came my way to create a measureable result which reflected in my targets. I was the Social Secretary as well – I overlooked team meetings, marketing and acted as a link between the Corporate Office in London and India Business for communication and data gathering that reflected on our intranet.

    I wanted to be part of the global platform and I knew Hays Elite was the way. My goal was clear.

     

    How did the switch from Hays take place? How did you secure your Directorial position at Unify Search Solutions Pvt. Ltd?

    (Gaury left Hays and joined Unify Search Solutions Pvt. Ltd. as their Director.)

    Hays underwent major restructuring. It was difficult to understand ownership and each location (i.e. Mumbai & Delhi) was striving to keep up with expectations. I got stuck between both the locations, and subsequently  decided to move on as it was difficult to fit into the frame of things that were planned.

    After I left Hays, I took a break for a month to think about what I wanted to do further. It would have been easy to take up another job but I allowed myself to look beyond. I wanted to experience fulfilment. The answer was creating something that combined my values and business understanding. I wanted to create a bigger picture.

    Unify is run by my friend and it was a conscious decision to come together and create an organisation. I had a brief discussion on a working model and some basic arrangements.

    It was great to go with the flow and fine tune along the way.

     

    What consisted of your work profile at Unify Search Solutions Pvt. Ltd. as a Director? What was the nature of your work over there? Please share with our readers.

    In my first year I started to develop the legal practice with a small team of consultants. I decided to head operations for the entire organisation in my second year along with managing my legal practice.

    My role involved

    • creating a business plan and tracking it closely,
    • streamlining processes,
    • ensuring efficiency and productivity,
    • identifying business gaps and addressing those gaps,
    • employee engagement and managing grievances, and
    • Human Resource activities.

     

    What motivated you to start ADEPT Consulting Partners? What is the story of your start-up?

    (After working for more than two years with Unify, Gaury founded ADEPT Consulting Partners – Legal Recruitment Specialist.

    After two years with Unify, I realised that what I thought was a great idea was not good enough. A business partnership is no less than a marriage – if either partner feels discomforted beyond a point, they need to part and so I did. Back at Unify, we were great friends but possibly we were not able to respect each other’s opinions and channelise ourselves in same direction. And so ADEPT was born. I have done legal recruitments for a major part of my work life, and we realised a need for an organisation completely dedicated to it. Legal recruitments are different and need special attention. We knew our competition to some extent and there is a lot of opportunity in the legal space. We wanted to make a difference along with being consistent.

    ADEPT’s foundations are laid on passion, customer service, being specialist and curious.

     

    What do law firms in India look for in potential candidates? What must a law student do to get hired in a top-tier law firm?

    Law firms want lawyers who are dynamic, open and keen to learn. Law is all about articulation of what you studied and how much do you get to work with the firm.

    A law student must have no reservations with the kind of work they do and should be open to learning new things. One cannot have reservations with work-life balance initially. They need to be enthusiastic about learning. Tier 1 law firms have high momentum and fresh lawyer needs to catch up quickly.

     

    What are key roles/positions or domain that your consultancy firm look for recruitment? What kind of clients do you usually get and what is their demand regarding hiring legal freshers?

    We largely look at work from law firms. Though we are mostly engaged with Tier 1 firms, we assist everybody in the law firm market. We have looked at a few partner placements but we are masters of Associate to PA level hiring. Most of the legal freshers are hired from campuses for most of our clients. We do present fresh lawyers to practices if desired, because usually firms mention to us about campus hires.

     

    What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of many top law firms?

    The legal market has matured in the last six years, from being more of reference based recruitment to attracting the best talent in the space. Of late, it is a war for talent. Opportunity is huge and lawyers don’t mind looking at a better role and opportunity. Firms have to match with the market standards in all aspects to keep the attrition in control. Money is an important aspect as well.

     

    What essential skills are required to work as a Legal Recruitment Specialist?

    A legal recruitment specialist needs to be knowledgeable and keen to learn. Legal recruitment is a lot about references and networking. We constantly need to be in the market all the time.  Being enthusiastic is one of the key skills.

     

    Please give some advice on CV-building, extracurricular and internships that law students must keep in mind to get recruited by any big law firm.

    Law students should mention an area of interest to learn more during internships. Firms don’t give an option but an interest will help them focus. Make a profile where you make a mention of subjects you enjoyed the most. Extracurricular activities help you develop people skills and realise the management aspect of business. If you get an opportunity, be a part of such events.

     

    What is your average day look like? Also, tell us about your brief role at “Teach for India”.

    My average day starts with planning important things to do that day. I then strike off every activity one by one. I call at least one client each day to ensure the quality of work is maintained, and at times just to say hello. Each day I try to spend some time with my team, which helps me stay close to business and address their issues if any. I try to look at achievements at the end of each day. “It is nice to see what I did differently today and whether I have moved a step further,” is my motto for each day.

     

    Five years from now, where do you see ADEPT Consulting Partners?

    Five years from now ADEPT Consulting Partners will emerge as a specialist firm managing Legal, Compliance, Regulatory, Accountancy and Finance. We will create a niche in said areas. We strive for consistency and top class customer service and we focus on these values solely. In five years we expect to be a strong competition in our field. We will become a known brand in the recruitment space.

     

    What would be your message to law students who dream of having their own Legal Recruitment Consultancy firm one day?

    If any law student dreams of having a legal recruitment consultancy, they can come to us. And I mean it – we are happy to welcome interns. Recruitment is all about passion and loving people. A specialist has more technical knowledge and know-how, but it needs to be polished by speaking to more and more people. Because law doesn’t teach you management you should learn it yourself. There are lot of opportunities for lawyers who want to move to recruitments. Just reach out and you will have a job.

     

    Many law students aspire to join law firms today. It will be very helpful for them if you throw some light on recruitment process of tier 1 and tier 2 law firms.

    Lawyers today need to be adept with overall industry and should be able to articulate their thoughts on career and practice. Interview processes at most of the firm are similar – Fresh Law Students are usually met by Senior Associates or Principal Associates or equivalent to realise their technical ability. Once they get through this meeting at times there is a written technical test post which the concerned Partner meets up to take a final call on the applicant. In some cases the HR person meets up for salary negotiation and offer. Nowadays firms reach out to specialist like us to look for freshers too in case they miss the campus hiring, so being in touch with few consultants will also help you.

     

    Many law firms have interviews as a part of their selection process (e.g. Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co.). How should one prepare for these interviews and what do the recruiters expect out of these interviews?

    In my interactions with many law firms, I concluded that quite a few lawyers fail the interview as their basics are weak, it is very important as fresh lawyers to have very strong know how of the basic Law (for e.g.. At times people cannot explain the Company Law too). Recruiters expect you be Jack of all, they expect you to be open and willing to burn out. It is important to know for which practice area are you getting interviewed before you walk in for a meeting, as a Fresh Lawyer you might not get a choice but your preparation has to be strong in areas other than your choice of practice (for e.g. – drafting is essential for litigation, knowledge of company laws is importance for General Corporate, Lending and borrowers knowledge is essential for Banking).

     

    How much importance do the law firms give to participation in co-curricular and extra-curricular activities?

    Law firms don’t necessarily look at extra-curricular activities much. At the initial screening what matters are the grades.

    Law Firms are partial with the college you pass out from, it is an understood fact that if you are from NLSIU, NALSAR or any other National School, you are an excellent student.

     

    Do you think that the law firms should evolve their selection process by also giving some importance to factors other than grades, moots, research papers, etc?

    I feel the selection process needs refinement as current processes are more technical in nature and they do not necessarily define quality. While hiring a ranker means a lot but not evaluating the rest would be unfair. I feel the associate band needs to be redefined a bit with some firms as the learning curve needs to get sharper.

     

    Please share your thoughts as to what is the future in working in the law firms today. Where does the hiring market stand right now?

    Law Firms today are way more competitive and challenging. The market has disrupted in last twelve months creating lot of opportunities for all. Working in Law firms will be a choice one has to cautiously make and take it up with full conviction to perform and learn. It is no longer an option to try and then decide. The market is edgy as the supply is more than the demand, with so many law colleges, lawyers will have to go an extra mile to secure roles and progress with firms.

  • Sanjeevi Shanthakumar, Dean, Faculty of Law, SGT University, on establishing three elite law schools, teaching and academics

    Sanjeevi Shanthakumar, Dean, Faculty of Law, SGT University, on establishing three elite law schools, teaching and academics

    Prof. Sanjeevi Shanthakumar is a graduate from Dr. Ambedkar Government Law College, Chennai (Madras University) (Batch of 1989). Thereafter he pursued LL.M. from Madras University with specialization in International Law and Constitutional Law.

    Currently he is Dean, Faculty of Law at SGT University, Gurgaon [NCR]. Earlier, he was Director of ITM Law School, ITM University, Gurgaon, Director of MATS Law School, MATS University, Raipur; Controller of Examinations of Hidayatullah National Law University, Raipur; Associate Professor of Law at Hidayatullah National Law University, Raipur; Senior Lecturer at Government, Law College, Madurai; Senior Lecturer at Government Law College, Chennai. Before joining the legal academia he had practiced at the Madras High Court for seven years as legal practitioner.

    He has an unique experience of establishing three elite law schools on a self financing mode.

    He shares his experiences in this interview.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your pre-college years, you as a student, your ambitions as a child. Did you have lawyers in your family or among close relatives?

    During my school days, I was a studious and enterprising child. Believed in honesty and hard work. Very cooperative and helpful to teachers and the school administration. One day when my class teacher was asking about the subjects we like the most, each student was naming either maths or science. When my turn came, I stood up and said “civics” and all the students in the class laughed at me. I never knew those days that this interest in civics will lead me to study law. I never had any lawyer in the family or amongst my relatives. Hence, was complexly unaware of legal profession.

     

    What were your objectives when you thought about law while still in the preliminary years of Law College? What were your goals after graduating? What were the options available to you?

    As I said, I never knew about this profession. My father wanted me to be a Medical Practitioner. Since I could not get a seat in the Medical College, I got admitted in B.Sc. [Chemistry] and started attending classes. One day, my dad came to my college and said that we need to go to the Madras law college and the interview is scheduled for admission to five year integrated law degree program. I walked with him without realizing that this is going to be a turning point in my life. Went to the Law College, faced the interview and later was declared selected. That was the starting point of my law journey.

    At the law college things were much unorganized. Was very scared to study in that environment. Was feeling very sad and was repenting my decision of joining the law college. Fortunately got few friends who cajoled me. Started developing interest in studies after meeting a friend called Gnanasekar. He was too elderly to be called a friend and hence we used to call him as “uncle”. He was the one who motivated me to study law. He used to call us outside the class room and started explaining to us each and every topic. He never used to carry text books like any other student. He used to carry with him volumes of AIR and read to us the full judgments of the Supreme Court. This created interest in me to read law through cases and law as interpreted by the Courts. He got opportunity to work on a part-time basis at a very popular law firm in Chennai, our interaction with him got reduced and I assumed his role in teaching my friends. This is how; I started teaching though informally.

    Instant recognition and appreciations after a good lecture fascinated me and forced me to take up teaching. Those were the days when there was a serious dearth of good law teachers. I went for a coaching class for preparing for the Civil Services Examination. The Teacher who was teaching Indian Polity could not come to classes regularly due to certain personal reasons. One day I tried to fill the gap by teaching a topic in Indian Polity. The overwhelming appreciation and feedback from my fellow students gave me confidence to become a good teacher. Based on the feedback from student the Director of the Centre Prof. M.F. Khan insisted that I should teach Indian Polity regularly and I got in to active teaching.

    My practice at the Madras High Court was a great experience. I was with one of the top ranking law firms M/s. Aiyar & Dolia and had a roaring practice. Received appreciations from my seniors, colleagues, clients and judges. In spite of these, my passion was in teaching and hence went for a full time Masters Degree Program at Madras University with specialization in International Law and Constitutional Law. After my Masters I cleared the UGC JRF and got the Junior Research Fellowship to do PhD in Law wherein as part of the fellowship terms and conditions, I had to deliver lectures for LL.M. students. Teaching Post Graduate Law students started this way and later got appointed as Senior Lecturer at the Government Law College, Chennai, and I happily started to teach at the college where I studied law. Later, on official transfer went to Government Law College, Madurai from where I resigned and joined Hidayatullah National Law University, Raipur. After HNLU, went to establish a new Law School for MATS University at Raipur as its founder Director, later established ITM Law School at ITM University, Gurgaon as its founder Director and now establishing the Faculty of Law at SGT University, Gurgaon as its founder Dean.

     

    Which subject do you enjoy teaching the most?

    (Sanjeevy has taught a number of both traditional legal subjects and the trending ones from Jurisprudence to Constitutional Law to International Law.)

    Not only the above mentioned conventional law subjects. I have the experience of designing curricula for Honours Courses wherein I had taught courses like “Biotechnology and Law”, “National Regulation of International Trade”, Science Technology and Law, etc. However, I enjoyed teaching Environmental Law the most and other subjects like International Law and Constitutional Law. I would also love to teach and enjoy teaching Environmental Law.

     

    Tell us about your teaching methodology. Do you encourage students to take notes or do you engage your students in active class participation? What advice do you share with your students on scoring higher grades?

    My teaching was never a one way process. I was one of the fortunate few teachers to get trained to teach under a World Bank Capacity Building Project and also at Cardiff University, U.K. under the British Council Funded Project. Whatever new teaching methods I learnt at these programs, I disseminated the same to many other young law teachers, through various training programs for law teachers on law teaching methods, at different universities across the county.

    I focus more on active learning rather than on teaching. It was always student centric. I actively involve the students in the process of learning the subject. During a semester, I deliver very few lectures. Most of the topics used to be learnt through small group discussions, role plays, field visits, seminars and projects. My question papers to assess my students understanding were always unique and different. Questions will never test their memory. Instead, it will encourage them to apply the acquired knowledge over a given situation and to come out with unique solutions, both legal and non-legal.

    I encouraged students in small groups to visit environmentally affected areas and to talk to various stakeholders to find out the real reasons for the problem and approach the administrators to find out what measures have been taken and finally to come out with their original solutions to resolve the problem. These methods helped every student to get engaged in the learning process. I made certain passionate students’ members of a Public Trust founded by me and named as “TREES” Trust for Research and Education on Environment and Sustainable Development” through which they continue to do some good work for the cause of environment, thereby engaging them in a life long learning process.

    My teaching methods for teaching Environmental Law was recently recognized by the Asian Development Bank, Manila by conferring on me the “Environmental Law Champions Development Award”.

     

    What role do legal researchers and academics play in the Indian legal system? What positive changes would you recommend on this aspect of the legal system?

    I personally feel by the legal academics have a greater role in producing quality legal professionals. As it was rightly said, the “Quality of the Bar determines the Quality of Justice”. Hence, it is the primary responsibility of legal academic to ensure the quality of the bar though developing the quality of law students who enter the bar.

    The only change I would recommend to all my law teaching fraternity is that, ‘Please take law teaching seriously and don’t take law teaching for granted. Do justice to your profession; else the nation will fail as a consequence of chain reaction.

     

    When would you say that an academician is successful? What are the career goals legal academicians should set for themselves?

    A Legal Academician’s success is measured in terms of the quality of legal professionals he produces. I feel successful, when I hear news about the success stories of my students, whom I have taught at different points of time. I could not avoid but sharing this news that this year four of my students got admitted to the LLM Degree Program at Harvard Law School. This gives me, as an academic to feel successful.

    The one point career goal for any legal academic is to be a good teacher and to be recognized as such. All the other positions and opportunities will automatically follow as and when time progress.

    Most of the opportunities I have had so far came to me through the recommendations of my students. One of my students even recommended to her peers and teachers at Oxford University to invite me to give a talk on Environmental Law at Oxford, which I did.  My students believed that I can do and I try not to disappoint them.

     

    You have authored several books and have written various research papers. How did you find time to write so many scholarly articles?

    For writing books, you need to have a compelling reason. I wrote books on Environmental Law only to help my students, as they were suffering for want of good reading materials, at that point of time, when Universities started to teach Environmental Law as a compulsory course. I tried to help them again with the help of a group of students, who dedicated a lot of time and energy to collect all the information and data required to author a book.

     

    What was the biggest challenge that you had to face while building the law schools?

    (Sanjeevy is the founder Director of MATS Law School as well as of ITM Law School, Gurgaon)

    The biggest challenge was to attract good students because without good students around me, I will not be able to experiment or innovate in legal education.

     

    Any thoughts on the current system in place to train the Indian judiciary and continuous legal education of lawyers? How can these systems be improved and made more effective?

    I believe in the importance of “Continuous Legal Education” for lawyers and judges especially in the trial courts. 15 years back, I conducted one “CLE Program for Young Lawyers”, while I was teaching at the Government Law College, Chennai. I received tremendous response for the same and appreciations for the initiative. I wanted it to be a regular feature. Due to transfers and relocation, I could not continue the CLEP. As Dean of SGT University Faculty of Law, I have started doing it again, and hope to continue it.

     

    As the current Dean of Faculty of Law, SGT University, how do you feel SGT can take a greater role in social engineering in India?

    As Dean of the Faculty of Law of SGT University I try to leave no stone unturned to make the law school a clinical law school where students learn through experience. I believe in “justice education” in contrast to “legal education”. I am trying to provide my students, maximum exposure to the legal profession through various clinical activities.

    I constantly remind them to think critically and not to accept anything just because it is there. To help the students feel more socially responsible I facilitate their visits to the communities for interaction very frequently through the legal literacy club. These visits to the communities and interaction with legal luminaries gives them a complete picture of the working of the Indian Legal System. Since they are made to personally feel the pain and sufferings of individuals, I sincerely believe that they will do their level best to mitigate pain and ensure justice.

     

    How do you say a student can manage to stay ahead of the ‘rat race’?

    Today, I find students quite impatient. My only advice to the young law students is that, keep working, work with dedication, sincerely and honestly maintaining the integrity and dignity of the legal profession. Results will follow as a natural consequence. Remember the phrase that “Rome was not built in a day”.

     

    What would be your message to those hard working law students who did not make it to a top NLU but want to excel in the profession?

    Many of those who are on top of the legal profession today were never a student of an NLU. In fact the NLUs started existing in public knowledge only 5-10 years ago. If they can do, why not you?

  • Rishab Kumar, Junior Associate, David Polk & Wardell, NY, on experience at GLC, Mumbai, the cost of an LL.M from Columbia University and International Law Firms

    Rishab Kumar, Junior Associate, David Polk & Wardell, NY, on experience at GLC, Mumbai, the cost of an LL.M from Columbia University and International Law Firms

    Rishab Kumar is working as a Junior Associate at David Polk & Wardwell LLP. He had graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2009. While in college, he interned as a law clerk with Justice Cyriac Joseph and worked at diverse places such as Reserve Bank of India and Majumdar and Partners. Later, he went on to join the chambers of Mr. Darius Khambata (Additional Solicitor General of India at the time) as a Junior Attorney. After working for a year, he entered into a two year training contract with Linklaters. Thereafter, he went to pursue an LL.M from Columbia University where at the end of his course, he was offered a job at David Polk & Wardwell. This interview brings out the journey of a law student to become a corporate lawyer working in one of the leading law firms in the world.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His experience at GLC, Mumbai – being a founder member of GLC, Debating Society and conceiving GLC Policy Debate;
    • His internship experience with Justice Cyriac Joseph, Reserve Bank of India and Majumdar & Partners;
    • Linklaters and his training contract with them;
    • Doing LL.M from Columbia and then joining David Polk LLP.
    • His experience as an expert in Merger and Acquisition between India and China.
    • The merits and demerits of both corporate lawyer and a litigating lawyer.

     

    How will you introduce yourself to our readers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    To introduce myself, I would start by saying that I was born and raised in Bombay (as it was then called) and I went to school and college there. I took to law because it was a field that gathered within itself two possibilities: intellectual stimulation and a rewarding professional career (and also because I wasn’t any good at mathematics). I always enjoyed debating, model UNs and was drawn to the humanities subjects generally, so it seemed like the right choice to me.

     

    What activities were you involved in as a student? Looking back, is there anything you wish you had done differently?

    Given the way the five year law course at GLC is organized, I always saw it as an opportunity to explore various aspects of the legal profession. Being in Mumbai, I was able to intern at law firms, with senior counsel, at the RBI and law clinics, all with the aim of getting a broader perspective on the industry.

    In college, I spent my time mooting, debating, writing articles and serving as a student editor on the GLC Law Review. All these activities really help developing the skills required to be a good lawyer.

    Looking back, I wish I had better grades through law school, because that’s something you’re always answerable for in black and white. But, it’s not an insurmountable obstacle. I devoted time to co-curricular activities and I don’t regret that – it’s important for everyone to find their own balance.

     

    What motivated you to start a debating society and why did you decide to organize the ‘GLC Policy Debate’?

    (Rishab was one of the founders of the GLC Debating Society, and also conceived and organized the ‘GLC Policy Debate’.)

    GLC already had a very vibrant community of intellectually curious students who were keen to debate everything from Plato to Pluto. The debating society was meant to be a structured outlet for these discussions and to provide students a platform to express their views. It instils public speaking confidence in those who lacked it. It was a particularly rewarding process because GLC, as a government college, has students from a wide range of backgrounds and this led to a remarkable diversity of opinion.

    The GLC Policy Debate was formed along the lines of the Oxford Union policy debate which used to be framed as “This House has No Confidence in Her Majesty’s Government”. We adapted this to the Indian context and invited noted bureaucrats, academics and journalists to defend and oppose the government’s policies. The debate was conducted on the steps of the Asiatic Society Library, for its symbolic significance as the former Town Hall of Mumbai. This was a unique event in India in that it was a fair and frank assessment of the government’s policies by an intelligent audience, with students voting at the end.

    The most challenging part of organizing this was obtaining the infinite government permits and approvals required to hold this event in a public space – particularly given the controversial topic.

     

    Please describe your internship experiences for our readers.

    (During Rishab’s time at law school, he interned with Justice Cyriac Joseph, Supreme Court of India, as a Law Clerk; Reserve Bank of India as a Research Intern and Majmudar & Partners as a Trainee.)

    With its early morning classes, the five-year course at GLC allows students to spend time working as an apprentice during the afternoons and gain a very real initiation in the practice of law. Students can either choose to be at one firm/organization for the duration or do a variety of different things. Both paths have their merits, but I chose the latter. The range of experience I gained offered me a unique perspective in that it allowed me to read and research a wide variety of subjects and learn how they were applied in practice. I was also able to meet some extremely inspiring people at these organizations, some of whom remain mentors till today. Most importantly perhaps, this variety in experience was useful to me when I applied to foreign law firms and LL.Ms.

    Clerking in the Supreme Court was a fantastic experience because I was able to witness some of the great lawyers of our time arguing the most significant legal issues of the day. Working as a research intern at the RBI, I learnt to value the role of a central bank in the economy and caught a small glimpse of how policies are formed at such institutions. At Majmudar & Partners, I gained my first experience working at a corporate law firm and interacting with clients. All these experiences gave me a solid foundation and held me in good stead going forward.

     

    Please tell us about your experience working with Mr. Darius Khambata.

    (After graduation, Rishab joined the Chambers of Mr. Darius Khambata (Additional Solicitor General of India at the time) as a junior attorney and worked there for 1 year before leaving to start a training contract at Linklaters.)

    By the time I joined the Chambers of Mr. Khambata, I knew that I would be leaving in 8-10 months to start a training contract at Linklaters in London. Mr. Khambata was kind enough to let me follow him around during this time. He is a towering figure at the bar and an inspiring human being. Working in his chambers was an extremely rewarding experience.

    My general duties were to research and assist Mr. Khambata in court. Mr. Khambata was the Additional Solicitor General of India at the time, so I was able to research and follow matters that involved constitutional law issues, administrative law issues, international and trade law issues – a variety of interesting subjects. This was really a dream assignment, because as a junior lawyer you typically don’t get to write research memos and spend hours reading Supreme Court cases to formulate and test arguments on such fundamental matters. But this was what I did during my time in chambers and it was a tremendous learning experience. I also enjoyed the camaraderie and tradition of working on the original side of the Bombay High Court.

     

    When did you start thinking to opt for a training contract from a foreign law firm?

    I started first with the idea of doing an internship abroad, because I thought it would be a valuable experience and good for my CV. At one point, I might have written emails to over 50 firms all over the UK. I didn’t get a single positive response. That’s when I learnt about the Linklaters India Internship program. I had missed the deadline for that year, so I decided to apply the next year. The application process for the internship was quite detailed. I spent a considerable amount of timing drafting and finalizing my application.

    I was thrilled to be offered the internship, which turned out to be more fun than I had expected. Living in London and being wined and dined every other evening was really an enjoyable experience. You also get to do some real work and get a glimpse of what life as a trainee is like. At the end of the internship, you’re invited to interview for a training contract. When I was offered the training contract, I thought that if I was going to practice corporate law, what better place to start than Linklaters in London – the work is exciting, the training is excellent and the compensation is very attractive.

     

    International Law Firms stress on commercial awareness. What sources, materials, books, newspapers or blogs did you read to crack commercial awareness?

    International firms do stress about this. But, reading the business newspapers and perhaps the Economist should hold you in good stead. You’re not expected to know the closing share price of Infosys the day before – just a general awareness of what’s going on in the world with a particular emphasis on things that would affect the practice of a global law firm.

     

    Describe your experience applying to Linklaters. Is there any specific point to keep in mind while writing the application process?

    The application process for the internship was quite detailed. Several essays, two rounds of interviews and an aptitude test. My advice to anyone applying is to take the application seriously. Spend time to read it, re-read and then proof-read it. I remember the recruiting department used to say, if an application contains more than three obvious typos, that’s probably a straight cut.

     

    How did you prepare for the Aptitude Tests in connection with your application? Do you recommend to undergo proper training for this?

    I’m quite certain that the Aptitude Tests don’t require any specific preparation – and that’s part of the objective. It’s probably useful to sample a few IQ tests and maybe the Watson Glazer critical thinking test, but only to get a sense for what to expect. It’s not a test that you’re expected to prepare for. The only thing that can hurt you on this test is to stress about it.

     

    Could you briefly describe the interview process for us?

    The interview is typically a casual conversation about your past, what you have done with your time and why you’re interested in the firm. Always have a story and explanation for every item on your CV because, if it’s on your CV, an interviewer is entitled to ask you about it. You’ll rarely be tested on a point of law, and even if you are, if you reason your answer correctly, not knowing the actual provision of law is completely acceptable. Research the firm and the interviewer – it’ll help you understand what they’re looking for. Ultimately, it’s just about making intelligent conversation and showing that culturally, you will be the right fit.

     

    Describe your time at Linklaters during your Training Contract. Also, briefly describe your work experience in various practice areas while undergoing Training Contract at Linklaters in London.

    The training contract is a 2 year contract where you rotate through four different practice areas. I chose to work in Capital Markets, Litigation, Banking and Corporate (M&A). The work you do in each practice area depends on the people you work with and the nature of the transaction/case. In most circumstances, you will play the role of a junior lawyer on the transaction/case, which may involve some tedious work (due-diligence, document review etc.), but you’ll also get asked to do interesting research and even get the opportunity to interact with clients. The people you work with are extremely intelligent and inspiring and the quality of training is really excellent. It’s also exciting to work on the most high-profile cases that you read about the next day in the newspapers. At the end of the training contract, trainees are expected to choose a practice area to ‘qualify’ into and this is a question of preference and a person’s area of interest.

    I enjoyed my time most in the Corporate (M&A) department because out of the various corporate groups, it seemed to me, the most tangible and relatable – a company buying or merging with another company. Every task that you perform is in furtherance of this objective and that simple context makes your work understandable and rewarding.

     

    What motivated you to leave Linklaters and pursue LL.M. at that point of time?

    (After completing Rishab’s Training Contract, he went on to pursue LL.M. from Columbia University School of Law, New York.)

    I had always wanted to do an LL.M. simply because I wanted to study further. There were a lot of subjects that I wanted to learn more about and to immerse myself in an academic environment. I knew that this would not be possible while working at a corporate law firm. The end of the training contract is a clean break and gave me the opportunity to get away and study for one last time.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP for Columbia? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    Writing an SOP is a deeply meaningful and personal exercise and one should treat it as such. It’s a process that cannot be rushed – I remember when I applied to Columbia, I had probably started writing my essay in June for a November deadline. I think the most important thing to do with an SOP, is to read the question. Each university has a different format and rather than viewing them all as the same essay, it’s better to look at the specific question and answer the question.

     

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    Tell us about the cost of an LL.M. at Columbia Law School? Did you receive any scholarship? Does Columbia Law School provide students with scholarships?

    The cost of an LL.M. at Columbia Law School is approximately US$80,000 (including tuition, rent and reasonable living expenditure). I know that Columbia Law School offers a number of scholarships, but I wasn’t offered any that year and I financed my LL.M. through a student loan. There are several educational trusts in India that will offer scholarships to students, but many of them are in the form of an interest free loan. If a scholarship is not forthcoming or feasible, the cost of an LL.M. is a factor that one should consider thoroughly. It is not easy to find a job after an LL.M. that will pay a salary which allows you to pay off that amount of money fast.

     

    After completing your LL.M., did you face any obstacles towards finding a job in the US? What is your opinion on LL.M. recruitment vis a vis  J.D. recruitment?

    Whether it is difficult to find a job in the US is often a function of market conditions which cannot be predicted. In 2013 when I graduated, market conditions were not great and there were few jobs for international lawyers.

    However, the key obstacle is the recruitment cycle. The JD program is a three year course. Students interview for summer associate positions during their first and second year and at the end of their second year, law students will intern at a law firm over the summer. Law firms usually finish their first year recruiting from this cohort of summer associates and by the time LL.M. students arrive in the fall, all law firms have completed their recruitment for the following year. This means that unless a specific position opens up, it is very difficult for LL.M. students to find jobs at US law firms.

    That said, if market conditions are favourable and if you are diligent with your search, it is possible to break in; especially for someone who is able to demonstrate a substantial amount of relevant work experience.

     

    After the LL.M., you joined Davis Polk & Wardwell as an Associate. This is one of the most prestigious and sought-after law firms in the US- how did you come to be offered this position?

    Davis Polk & Wardwell is one of the few firms with a strong India practice and the firm was looking for someone with my profile to do US and Asia cross-border M&A work. At the time, their India practice, as part of the broader Asia practice, was operated mainly out of the Hong Kong office and so I was hired for that position. The firm was a top choice for me and I was extremely fortunate to be offered the position.

     

    After starting in the New York office, you shifted to the Hong Kong office of Davis Polk. What led to this shift?

    I started in the New York office as any US associate, I worked on a few transactions and went through the introductory training program before moving to the Hong Kong office as always planned. The cross-border India, Asia M&A practice in Hong Kong was the right fit for me at the time and so, I moved to the Hong Kong office.

     

    rishab-kumar-3

    Your core practice area is Cross-border M&A and PE/VC investments. How did you come to choose this practice area? What skills does one require to be a lawyer in this field?

    I had always been interested in international and cross-border work. But my focus in M&A was developed during the course of my LL.M. The US jurisprudence (Delaware in particular) around corporate M&A transactions is extremely sophisticated and I was drawn to it. Several of my classes were in this field and I enjoyed the nuanced discussion on fiduciary duties, business judgment and shareholder value. I was particularly attracted to the idea that this academic discussion was directly related to the practice of M&A at a US law firm and was constantly evolving.

    Moreover, no two M&A transactions are the same and there is no cookie-cutter method to a transaction. You start with a clean slate each time and tailor your work to the specific context and the client’s objectives. This makes each transaction intellectually stimulating.

    In practice, the role of an M&A lawyer is often to play quarterback to various specialty groups. In any given transaction, there may be labour/employment law issues, tax issues, IP issues, environmental law issues, anti-trust/competition law issues etc. The corporate lawyers have to coordinate and synthesize the advice from such specialist teams and reflect it in the terms of the main transaction documents.

    Ultimately, as an M&A lawyer clients look to you to find solutions. So, thinking on your feet and problem-solving are two crucial skills that a lawyer must possess.

     

    At Davis Polk, you are working on some challenging and highly complex M&A transactions, especially in relation to India & China. Can you tell us about this experience?

    Working at a firm like Davis Polk is a privilege. You work with extremely intelligent people on cutting-edge transactions. Much of my practice today is representing strategic companies or private equity funds in their acquisitions/investments in India, China and South East Asia. Foreign direct investment transactions in these countries are quite challenging to execute and there is always a higher level of risk. One has to be familiar with the local regulations and work closely with local counsel in the target jurisdiction to come up with a viable transaction structure. However, businesses in these regions are growing at exponential rates and the reward for patient and diligent investments can be quite high. These challenges make the work extremely interesting and serve as a great learning experience for a junior lawyer.

     

    You have practised law in Mumbai, London, New York and now Hong Kong. Give us some highlights of India practices at International Firms in USA, UK and Asia.

    Logistically speaking, many international firms have their India practices operated in Singapore, Hong Kong or London. The time difference between India and the US, makes it more difficult to service clients and negotiate with the other side during a transaction from New York or the west coast.

    However, law firms are ultimately professional service firms that are responsive to client needs. India practices at law firms are a good example of this. Firms have India practices only to the extent that clients are interested in doing business in India which is in turn dependant on prevailing economic conditions. It is difficult to sustain a practice solely on inbound and outbound transactions related to India and few firms will hire an associate to do solely India work. From an associate’s perspective, while working at an international law firm, it is important to branch out and be a general corporate lawyer with some India experience. If you want to practice solely Indian law, the place to do it is at an Indian law firm in India.

    There was a time when firms operated India practices outside of India in anticipation of the legal markets opening up in India, but that is not the case anymore as there is no clear indication that the market will open up. This event has been 2 years away for 15 years now.

     

    You have worked with two Top International corporate law firms. Tell us about the work culture of both law firms, their work-ethics, salary package and also comment on the diverse practice areas.

    Linklaters and Davis Polk are both extremely prestigious firms with extremely capable lawyers. They are also both very large organizations and it is impossible to generalize the culture. Both firms demand the highest levels of professionalism and also exhibit tremendous team spirit and work ethic. In terms of offices, magic circle firms tend to be larger and more international than US firms. But, both firms are full service law firms with top-tier corporate practices.

    At a magic circle firm, the first recruits are trainees and most associates were trainees at the firm. The training contract system is a very good start to a legal career. You rotate across departments for two years and that gives you the time to adjust to life in a corporate law firm and sample various practice areas. Coming straight from an Indian law school, this system is an excellent first step to take. A typical magic circle firms pays approximately GBP 40,000 to trainees and approximately GBP 60,000 to its associates (who qualify after two years of training).

    At most US firms, the first port of entry is a summer associateship at the firm between the second and third year of law school. This is much shorter than a training contract and is premised on the fact that by the time students finish their JDs, they are more polished and ready to start practising law. Because, unlike the LL.B. system in the UK, the JD program is a post-graduate program and law graduates are older and have often had some prior work experience. As a result, US law firms typically don’t recruit outside of the JD circuit and international students find it hard to break into the system directly, especially without a US LL.M. However, once you are able to break in the system, a first year associate at a top New York firm will start at US$160,000.

     

    What is your take on Corporate v. Litigation?

    I believe that practising litigation (as a counsel) in India can be challenging without the support of a mentor. It is difficult to get briefed as a junior counsel without that support and as a result, at a very crucial age in life, you may not have a steady source of income. If you have the financial means and the talent to overcome this barrier, then litigation can be a highly rewarding experience, especially in a place like Bombay where the tradition is for seniors to support juniors and mentor them. The actual day to day work is intellectually stimulating and you are an independent professional, not constantly answerable to a senior.

    Working at a corporate law firm offers you financial stability and can be less daunting to start with because you work as part of a team and are sure to be offered the training and assistance to grow. Also, corporate law often involves problem solving and over time, you can feel like you’ve help build something, whether it’s a company, a power plant or a new product. However, with that stability and sense of accomplishment, comes long, unpredictable hours of a stressful environment.

     

    Life at a corporate law firm can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Life as a junior associate at a corporate law firm is indeed quite hectic and stressful. However, sometimes, it’s important to step back and look at the bigger picture. My wife is a doctor and she always reminds me, if nobody died or suffered physical pain, it’s a good day.

    Playing a sport has always been very important to me – it’s a complete escape from everything else. So, playing basketball on the weekends is almost a religious activity and I rarely let work come in the way of that.

     

    Any advice you’d like to give to young lawyers who hope to follow in your footsteps?

    While in college, it’s important to cultivate an intellectual curiosity and let that drive you. Do what you feel passionate about, stick with it and work hard towards it.

  • Kriti Sharma, Research Fellow, Council for Social Development, on all about a work profile in Human Rights Law

    Kriti Sharma, Research Fellow, Council for Social Development, on all about a work profile in Human Rights Law

    Kriti Sharma is an alumnus of NALSAR, Hyderabad (2012). In 2011, she underwent an exchange programme with Redzyner School of Law, Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya, Israel. Thereafter she worked as a research assistant to Justice Dalveer Bhandari and as a judicial clerk to Justice Khanna.

    In this interview, we focus specially on her experience at Council for Social Development, and how she chose this career path in Human Rights. We also try to trace back her journey to NALSAR, her experience at IDC, and her job of a law clerk. At present, she is working as a research fellow at Council for Social Development.

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. Please tell us a little bit about your childhood and your background?

    Fairly simple background, artsy atmosphere as my father dabbled successfully with Hindi poetry, writing and theatre direction. I formed a companionship with books early on since my mother managed the Ramjas Foundation’s library. I grew up mostly in Delhi, except for a few years in London due to my father’s posting.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Did you have someone who inspired you to study law?

    It seemed a good option after studying humanities along with civil services and journalism. Having arrived from England I was not aware of competitive exams but a classmate prodded me on. I grew up sensitive to social conditions and always voiced my opinion against gender discrimination that I saw in practice. In hindsight, law provides a perfect platform to engage with such issues.

     

    How was your experience at NALSAR, Hyderabad?

    NALSAR undeniably opens a spectrum of opportunities for individuals and is arguably, the best law school in the country. I wasn’t so excited though, as overall the faculty and course options back then were not as impressive and diverse as they are increasingly becoming now. Discussions on raging issues were fodder to my mind, yet at the same time its location denied me the opportunity to pursue extra-curricular activities as much as I wanted to.

     

    You underwent an academic exchange programme with Redzyner School of Law, IDC, Herzliya, Israel. What did you benefit from the student exchange programme?

    Going on an exchange involves a considerable cost. Therefore I was only willing to take it up if I got my first choice- Israel. I was made aware by a visiting professor from Berkeley that IDC invites distinguished faculty from U.S.A and Europe for lectures, providing me an insight into graduate academic life abroad. I was also personally interested in understanding geo-political and historical situation of the region, for which I extensively travelled through Israeli-Palestine and Jordanian territories and engaged with the local people, apart from taking up academic courses on Arab-Israeli conflict and peace process.

     

    Also tell us about your experience working as a Research Assistant of Dean Ron Harris, Law Faculty of Tel Aviv University during your Law school days.

    I have had an interest in legal history and wanted to discover what kind of work really happens in this field. I happened to mention my interest to a professor who forwarded my CV to Professor Harris. Professor Harris had been writing a book for publication by Princeton on the ‘Organisation of Early modern Eurasian trade’ for which a Chapter on ‘Early 15th-17th Century Laws of Maritime Trade in India’ required primary and secondary research in Indian archives, museums and libraries. Upon return from the exchange, I researched on this topic- looking closely at the impact of society, family, women and slaves on indigenous trade which was thriving at the turn of 16th century, before the arrival of foreign powers.

     

    You have interned under Justice Dalveer Bhandari of Supreme Court of India twice when you were at Law school. How did you obtain this golden opportunity to intern twice under him? What kind of work you came across?

    Justice Dalveer Bhandari, who is presently a member of the International Court of Justice, took active interest in training and educating young lawyers. His office was very welcoming and encouraging to interns but also demanded high quality work, without exception. He gave us an opportunity to work on important cases such as Novartis, Bar Council exam case etc. and since I was interested in gender rights, I also worked on an international sexual trafficking case. Apart from this we were expected to brief him on fresh matters every evening, which really was a test because his legal acumen and experience were unmatchable. For internship, one had to simply send a CV to his office secretary and selected candidates were informed for each internship session. Drafting a good request letter is the key, I highlighted his judgments on right to education and caste violence and why I was keen to work with him.

     

    Almost all your internships were focussed on non-profit and research work involving primarily matters of Human Rights Law. Were these all planned internships or did you just take them up as they came along?

    I followed what interested me. The classroom teaching was mostly academic but field internships in slum areas of Delhi (with Parivartan) and southern tribal belt of Rajasthan (with Mazdor Kisan Shakti Sangathan) made me understand how the law actually affects daily lives of people. In my third and fourth year I carefully explored all options available to a law student – viz. interning at a law firm, a lawyer’s office, Law Commission of India and the Supreme Court, for me to make an informed choice after graduation.

     

    How do you think the experience of being a clerk is now helping you in your career path?

    (Kriti was engaged as a Law clerk-cum-Research Assistant in Delhi High Court under Justice Sanjiv Khanna specializing in Criminal and Writ Petitions Roster after her graduation.)

    I wanted a right mix of advocacy and research for my career. I was inspired by Flavia Agnes’s work in the courts on gender rights and was interested in working in a Habeas Corpus roster, which in India mostly deals with family matters and elopement cases. Justice Khanna handled these cases with required sensitivity and often the mediation wing of the High Court was also involved. The criminal appellate roster also dealt with terrorism, juvenile justice and other life imprisonment cases which required regular case preparation and drafting. Evidence in each and every criminal case has to be very carefully evaluated as it is a question of an individual’s life and liberty. I also utilised the court exposure to compile an ethnographic report on hostile witnesses. The centuries old criminal system would do well with reforms and I have certain observations regarding this which can be discussed at length some other time. I also learnt that while working with litigants in gender cases, one cannot take an extremely idealised approach, as in practice things work out differently.

     

    Is it difficult to get a judicial clerkship with a Delhi High Court Judge? What sort of people would you advise to do a judicial clerkship?

    The Supreme Court follows an organised process of recruitment for which one has to apply through the university in the final year of studies. For High Courts, a few of them have a centralised process but individual efforts need to be made. Previous internship with the judge, networking with college seniors, lawyers and court staff and active pursuit helps and if one has good credentials, ways open out on their own. Students who desire to join litigation can gain from experiencing the other side of the courtroom. The academically oriented students of course find it opportune to engage with real time legal questions and gain practical exposure.

     

    How did you start working as a Legal Researcher in Council for Social Development (CSD), Hyderabad?

    At the end of the clerkship tenure, I decided I wanted to plunge into active advocacy and research on gender rights issues. I was aware of Professor Kannabiran’s work in this area alongside probes into colonial, constitutional and criminal questions relating to subalterns. This perfectly matched my interests and the Organisation also promised me a platform for interdisciplinary studies. I applied by sending an email detailing my motivations, works and aspirations and how I hoped to contribute to the objectives of CSD. I was called for an interview and thereafter received a confirmation.

     

    What motivated you to write a book on Tribal Advocacy? Can you illustrate us on your book to our readers.

    (Kriti has co-ordinated the “Training and Fellowship Programme for Tribal Advocates” which focuses on advocacy amongst Koya and Chenchun tribal people, training them in law and writing a book on Tribal Advocacy. Her forthcoming book on tribal advocacy is yet to publish.)

    Council for Social Development has a long track record of working closely with adivasis of Koya, Chenchun and other PVTG communities. In 2012 CSD launched a yearlong training programme for tribal advocates from this community. Through this, I learnt about the ground realities in the tribal villages and their struggles in the face of an apathetic administration. Apart from seeking solutions to our local problems, we tried to relate to tribal situation at national and international level and expand our horizons. I particularly tried to sensitize them on other struggles e.g. situation of tribal women within these communities by teaching gender related laws, policies and cases. I even poked them on homosexuality and we had a refreshing debate. In the whole process, an important realization was that there was hardly any legal literature available to deal with tribal cases. Thus, the idea of writing on tribal advocacy based on street law concept for litigators and social activists. The tribal advocates, of course are now successfully fighting human rights cases and bringing awareness to their communities through para-legal courses.

     

    What kind of response did you get after presenting a report on pending disability bills to the Parliament of India?

    (Kriti has also drafted and presented a report addressing the Standing Committee, Parliament of India on pending disability bills, reflecting deliberations held during the ‘National Consultation on Disability Rights’.)

    Parliament’s conduct rules prohibit discussion of the meeting outside but the Standing Committee has now forwarded its report to the Parliament and it is heartening to see that many of our suggestions have been included. We hope the Parliament will look at these suggestions closely and pass an effective Act. We had months of deliberation with various organisations before we submitted our findings. One key area of my concern was education. For instance, during my empirical study on minority schools I had observed that disabled children are not being admitted to schools in the first place and, therefore, I had recommended that surveys to identify disabled children should not be conducted only within schools but at community level. It was heartening to see that suggestions like these from civil society have been accepted and forwarded to the Parliament. Overall it was a good learning experience and I am grateful to CSD for giving me this opportunity at such a young age.

     

    You have also conducted field study on impact of “Right to Education law on India’s backward minorities”. What inspired you to take this initiative?

    I had been thinking of conducting this study since college but only the senior academic staff at CSD could provide me the guidance and support to go ahead with it. I am very inspired to work on education in India and it concerns me that certain sections are evidently lagging behind but not enough efforts are being made to bridge this gap. The study area is Kishabagh- an urban slum and a riot prone area at the outskirts of Hyderabad where Sikh-Muslim riots happened last year. I did not face any hindrance during the month that I spent in the field. The informers- school/madrasa staff, students and parents were very welcoming and involved with the whole interview process. The heart wrenching parts were when for e.g. girls revealed that due to impending marriage or economic situation they would not be able to continue education. Once we went to a junior class room and asked how many students worked after school and nearly the whole class put their hands up.

    The most sensitive interview I conducted was with a girl whose young brother was a victim of the quarrel which started the riot. Suffering from fresh wounds, she narrated her family’s perspective on the situation. Overall, I feel students have aspirations but societal pressures and situations quell them and the right kind of guidance is unavailable as even schools/madrasas operate with particular economic/religious motives. It was discomforting to see sub-standard education being meted out to such bright and promising students. My paper is a work in progress but I hope to deal with various aspects and I am going as far as to argue for recognition of madrasas under the right to education legal movement, keeping in perspective each child’s right to education. I hope it will be well received.

     

    Please share your experience working with CSD for 2 years till now. What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day?

    Council for Social Development is a unique place to explore interdisciplinary studies. It is an academic institution which houses international and national academicians from varied social science fields and this makes for interesting coffee conversations and discussion programs. We have a well disposed library on South Asian studies and I have tried to make a good use of it. The work day technically is 9.30- 5.30 P.M., five days a week but it is open till 8.00 P.M. I am most grateful for the freedom the institution provides to its writing staff to explore their creative ideas. The opportunity to work with Prof. Kannabiran has been exciting and insightful at many levels. We have interesting projects happening all around the year and in fact I constantly feel there are so many opportunities and such little time.

     

    How can one apply to CSD for internships?

    It depends on our project requirements. Please do check by writing to us at secretariat@csdhyd.org. You can check out our website www.csdhyd.org for more information and opportunities.

     

    It is a common belief that working in the areas of human rights and policy research doesn’t pay well. How much of a hindrance is it for people joining this area of work?

    I wouldn’t tell you otherwise. One has to be mentally prepared for that sort of struggle and plunge into this only if there is genuine interest otherwise it is difficult to sustain. The plus side is there are many people to mentor and guide you through. I have had terrific bosses and encouraging seniors from NALSAR throughout. I cannot juxtapose this against law firms, as both jobs serve different purpose and carry different rewards.

     

    What would be your message to law students who are research enthusiasts?

    It doesn’t help to follow any ‘rules’ that one should do x,y and z things as a law student. I see many law students writing articles for enlarging their CV. Quality matters more than quantity, so no point cluttering space. People should engage in issues that really interest them and feel they will be able to bring out an interesting analysis. There is no set way to write but passion for your subject matters.