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  • Abhilasha Nautiyal, Senior Associate, IPR and Competition Law, Anand & Anand, on LL.M from Harvard and job experience

    Abhilasha Nautiyal, Senior Associate, IPR and Competition Law, Anand & Anand, on LL.M from Harvard and job experience

    Abhilasha Nautiyal graduated from Army Institute of Law, Mohali in 2010. While in law school, during her internship at Anand and Anand, she was offered a job which she accepted and started working there after graduation. Thereafter she went to pursue Masters from Harvard Law School. After coming back to India, she again joined Anand and Anand but this time as a Senior Associate. Currently she practices IP and Competition Law at Anand and Anand.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at AIL
    • LL.M from Harvard
    • Career in Intellectual Property law
    • Work at Anand and Anand

     

    Tell us about your profile and how did you decide to study law?

    I work with Anand and Anand and practice IP and competition law.

    Law was a fortuitous choice, and going to AIL was also a matter of chance – I was preparing for med school when a friend introduced me to the idea of going to law school. Being from an army background, Army Institute of Law seemed like a law school I could realistically get into.

     

    What has been your experience on the NLU and Non-NLU divide?

    Yes, there is some truth in that. Luckily for me, I interned and now work at a firm that doesn’t differentiate amongst its resources on an NLU/Non-NLU divide.

     

    After graduating from AIL, you joined Anand and Anand as an Associate. How did the appointment take place?

    I was offered a job at Anand and Anand during an internship. As an associate, I assisted senior members of the litigation team. The learning curve of a litigating lawyer is steep and there is of course a lot to catch up with in terms of what the law is and how the legal machinery actually functions as opposed to what one thinks of the legal system in law school.

     

    How would you describe your experience while studying Masters from Harvard Law School?

    I always wanted to have a more fulfilling academic experience, hence an LL.M. I have come across people in the profession who feel that an LL.M. has very limited value for a litigating lawyer. In my experience, the LL.M. year opened my mind to diverse ideas, which I believe is a great ‘value addition’ for a lawyer irrespective of the field of law he or she is practicing. The LL.M. year is not just about academics but is a great opportunity for personal growth.

     

    After coming back from Harvard you were offered the position of a Senior Associate at Anand and Anand. How would you say the LL.M affected your career?

    There are several factors involved in the process – time at the firm and ability to handle individual responsibility are examples of criteria the firm may look at. I was directly offered the rank of Senior Associate after my LL.M from Harvard.

    An LL.M., at the very least, does refine ones thinking, which is a great boost. My responsibilities at Anand and Anand have increased over the years. One must bear in mind that foreign education comes at the price and must be prepared to make such an investment.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture at Anand and Anand and the life of a Senior Associate.

    I am happy to be working with people who are as passionate, if not more, about the law. We enjoy our work and team work is our strength. I handle matters in consultation with the partners. My responsibilities include handling day to day requirements of clients, advisory work, appearances in court and taking forward the competition law practice of the firm.

     

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    How did you build up your expertise in IPR? Tell us about your work experience.

    I learnt a lot during internships and on the job. Like I said before, there is a huge gap between what we study in law school and how we actually practice law. It is important to bridge that gap – a headstart in college by focusing on quality internships is very important. The role of an IP lawyer may involve several facets like transactional work, consultancy, prosecution or litigation. The key is to do your job and to do it well. Attention to detail is a quality that can help one go a long way in this profession.

    I most enjoy working on matters at the cusp of IP and competition law. This includes FRAND and compulsory licensing problems. At the risk of sounding clichéd, I feel there is no substitute for hard work (and good strategy!)

    If you are passionate about IP, life will be much simpler as an IP lawyer.

    Mistakes happen – it’s fine as long as you learn and move on. As I have learnt over the years, it important to try because most mistakes can be corrected.

     

    How are internships helpful for a law student? What are the other options available for someone interested in IP?

    Internships are a must. Diligence is well appreciated during internships.

    It’s always helpful to have an idea of the relevant substantive and procedural law. General awareness of burning issues in your field of interest will help.

    Working with start ups, or having your own legal start up, may be a lucrative option in some cases. Alternatively, teaching, clerking with courts, or working for a government agency are other options to explore.

     

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    How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    This is a tough one. My husband is also a lawyer so both of us work long hours. The trick is to take benefit of any break, long or short, that comes our way.

  • Sindhu Shankar, Legal Counsel, Infosys, on law school experience at NLU Jodhpur and on work experience

    Sindhu Shankar, Legal Counsel, Infosys, on law school experience at NLU Jodhpur and on work experience

    Sindhu Shankar is a graduate from National Law University, Jodhpur (Batch of 2011). Thereafter she worked with Corporate advisory and Technology practice group of Poovayya & Co., Advocates & Solicitors for two years. Later, she switched to Infosys Ltd. as a Senior Associate Legal Counsel. Recently, she has been promoted to Legal Counsel there.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLUJ
    • Work experience at Poovayya & Co.
    • Work and internship procedure at Infosys

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I am an in-house legal counsel with an interest in new technology and related laws and policy. I am currently a Legal Counsel with Infosys Limited, and work with the team advising the Australia and New Zealand part of the company. I was previously with the corporate team of Poovayya & Co., and was part of the firm’s technology practice group. I am an alumnus of National Law University, Jodhpur.

    I harboured a love for literature, excelled at debating in school, and had an aptitude for reasoning and current affairs. Given these interests I was propelled in the general direction of law school.It was only much later that I discovered that law could be applied to my other passions like technology and innovation. The prospects of working on the challenges of new technology over the coming years and the developing legal landscape in the Asia-Pacific region motivated me to pursue a career in this field, with a focus on this region.

    Tell us about your college life at NLUJ. What all activities did you partake in? Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    I really enjoyed laws relating to technology and innovation, and this served as the focus point from which I perceived other areas of law.I undertook a variety of interesting internships (including a criminal law and sessions court internship experience, the employment team of a public sector undertaking, corporate teams of law firms and my internship with Poovayya& Co.). I also participated and excelled in co-curricular activities relating to public international law. I was also involved in mooting, MUNs, debates, client counselling, and the works. My involvement in the Cultural Committee and the Committee for Protection of Environment largely contributed to my time at National Law University, Jodhpur. Heading various activities of the committees and setting the stage for the first edition of the NH65 cultural fest was very fulfilling and an important part of my college experience.

    What I cherish the most about having attended National Law University, Jodhpur is the sheer variety of opportunities that the college facilitated for us students. Being able to try different activities and explore different aspects of the law helped me learn from each of them, and figure out what I wanted to do (and more importantly, what I did not want to pursue).If law school is all about figuring out what you want to do, and finding a way to do it, I would say it worked out pretty well for me.

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I was drawn to public international law and diplomacy during my graduating year, but did not actively pursue mooting or MUNs in my first two years at law school. In fact I began mooting entirely by chance, and only because a speaker on an international moot team dropped out in the very last minute, and the spot was thrown open to the person topped a written test on public international law. My co-speaker on the team was a seasoned speaker, and with his guidance I started mooting. Preparing for international moot court competitions helped develop my interest in and knowledge of public international law. Health law, which was introduced as an experimental course for my batch, also caught my fancy and I would follow developments in legal aspects of health innovation. Participating in the WIPO panel at the Harvard Model United Nations in my final year, was a culmination of my two interests during graduation – health and technology laws, and public international law.

    I continue to be interested in public international law at an academic level, and judge moot court competitions including the India national rounds of Jessup, the GNLU International Moot Court Competition, and the Surana&Surana National Corporate Law Moot court competition.

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    My law school education equipped me with the ability to find anything I want to find as long as it exists, the ability to learn new things and apply them in a logical manner, and the ability to process a lot of information in a short amount of time and convey it in a simpler manner. I believe these skills were vital for the tasks I was required to execute during my internship and remain very relevant in my current role.

    Soon after graduation, you joined Poovayya& Co., Advocates & Solicitors as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? What worked for you in securing the job?

    I sought an internship with Poovayya&Co., in my final year, with an intent to work with their technology law practice group. During my internship, I found myself thoroughly enjoying the varied nature of work I was handling – from litigation relating to use of new technology to compliance advisory on innovative ideas, for all sorts of clients from multinational companies to baby start-ups. My one month internship was extended, and my internship culminated in a pre-placement with the firm. On graduating I joined the technology practice group of Poovayya& Co., at Bangalore.  I believe my prior interest in and awareness of new technology, appetite for related work and performance during the internship helped me achieving my goal in working for the firm, and the practice group within the firm.

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available?

    If one has not already figured out what one wants to do during law school, the first year after graduation is the best time to cast your fortunes with the opportunity which appeals to you the most, and figure out whether you want to pursue it. While a good salary package is important, most fresh law graduates fail to account for the ‘opportunity factor’ of working in certain roles at certain organisations, which are otherwise less lucrative to start off with. I would suggest that fresh law graduates focus on the experience and learning they are going to gain in the first few years than give importance to the possible signing bonus that lands in their laps. Try everything, you never know what you might like or you might experience.

    You left Poovayya to join Infosys as Senior Associate Legal Counsel in 2013. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    The chance to work with Infosys presented itself at an opportune time when it made sense for me to gain more hands-on experience in the areas of my interest, and start specializing in a particular area of technology laws. While working at Poovayya& Co. was a fabulous experience in terms of the variety of projects I got to work on and see through, and my learnings from the team I was working with, a role with an in-house team where I would have to look at law through the lens of business and risk profiles, presented a new set of challenges. It certainly helped that the Infosys legal team functions a lot like a firm, and has an established and good reputation in the IT business. It also helped that my mentors at Poovayya& Co. supported my decision to move to Infosys in light of my career interests, and encouraged me to explore the opportunity which was presenting itself.

    Recently, you’ve been promoted to Legal Counsel at Infosys. How did you go about achieving this?

    I work with the team advising the Australia and New Zealand part of the company. I believe working as a part of a close-knit team, working closely with senior team members who are stalwarts in their areas of specialization, and the learning opportunities that working with my senior colleagues have provided me with have furthered my personal and professional development. I also appreciate that at Infosys, I have the flexibility to work on my other areas of interest such as intellectual property and data privacy, and take on projects which interest me.

    We would love to hear about your work profile. What is a normal workday like? Being the Legal Counsel, what are your responsibilities?

    A normal work day would involve drafting/reviewing, negotiating and advising on all kinds of commercial contracts for Infosys’ business in the Australia and New Zealand geography. This would include working with my colleagues who handle other jurisdictions or advise other Infosys group companies, colleagues from other internal teams and business functions on various issues, and front-ending with Infosys’ clients on our transactions. Occasionally, I would also work with internal stakeholders on non-contractual commercial issues such as intellectual property, data privacy or internal policy rollouts. I also oversee the functioning of the Infosys Legal team’s internship program.

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?

    Moving from a law firm to an in-house team, my biggest challenge was in understanding the business of the company and the industry as a whole. Working for a singlepoint client(Infosys) and multiple internal clients also meant there was a lot of history behind the strategy of the company, and that I had to update myself rather quickly on my understanding of the business. Talking to my colleagues and hands-on training on the job helped me deal with the challenges and familiarize myself with the circumstances of my role. The challenges of advising business in a geography I was not familiar with, and working with experienced colleagues in the region has been a massive academic, professional and cultural learning experience for me.

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    The essential skills of a corporate lawyer are the ability to acquire knowledge, the ability to act on the knowledge and communicate the same, maintaining a professional network and acting in a professional and ethical manner at all times. The first two are a matter of passion for the field, and a good understanding of the subject matter at hand. A professional network is a matter of time, and professional integrity, as C.S. Lewis puts it, is a matter of ‘doing the right thing even when nobody is looking.’

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    Infosys is powered by values based on client value, leadership by example, integrity and transparency, fairness, and excellence. My personal and professional ethics align with that of the company.

    Mistakes and errors are inevitable. I believe that as long as you own up to your mistake, alert those who need to be alerted and bring a solution to the table along with the problem, you can redeem yourself to some extent.

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship at Infosys? What should one do and how to contact them to apply for an internship? What are the qualities which they look for in one and his/her CV?

    The Infosys Legal Internship (ILI) program was initiated approximately ten years ago with the intention of enriching the law student community and bridging the gap between law colleges and corporate legal departments. In this process, the ILI program has reached out to more than 1000 candidates and shortlisted approximately 50 interns over this period.

    We at Infosys Legal are very keen to recognize budding talent and nurture such talent. However, we also are particular that any applications coming through should display uniqueness and a sense of individuality. We wish to remove commonly held myths that brand names and bulk internships or moot courts are the path to securing internships in big corporate legal teams. Our focus is to select those interns who have a passion for the law and using this passion wish to carve their own space in the legal fraternity. The ILI program offers our interns the opportunity to work with our legal functions across our group companies, on a variety of assignments

    Our internship process is relatively simple. Interested candidates may send their CVs to abhijit_poonja@edgeverve.com and sindhu_shankar01@infosys.com. Abhijit and I manage the India ILI program for the Infosys group. From the CVs received and on their respective merits we shortlist candidates for interviews. The shortlisted candidates are then interviewed by us, and this interview determines whether Infosys shall extend a time bound internship offer to the selected candidate. We usually entertain applications only 2-3 months before the candidate’s proposed internship period and as a process we usually select only 1-2 interns each month.

    What are the basic subjects which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    I would suggest gaining a good understanding of how the legal team of each company works, and figuring out where one fits in, in the team. In a vast ocean of opportunities, it helps to be in a role which fits you personally, aligns with your goals, and from where you are able to contribute to the team most effectively. The legal team at Infosys has lawyers with varied career paths and specializations. A few things I find are common characteristics among the people I work with at Infosys are the ability to learn, the ability to adapt with new learning, being a team player, and a strong work ethic.

    Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding professionals?

    Internships provide an excellent opportunity to experience what it is like to work with different kinds of teams and clients, in different areas of law. I would suggest that law students explore the avenues available to them through internships, before beginning to specialize in a certain kind of legal practice. For budding professionals, it does good to know what you do not want to do, before figuring out and passionately pursuing what you want to do!

  • Priyanka Sinha, Legal Executive, Voltas, on law school and work experience as an in-house counsel

    Priyanka Sinha, Legal Executive, Voltas, on law school and work experience as an in-house counsel

    Priyanka Sinha graduated with a B.L.S.LL.B. degree from ILS Law College in 2013. As a law student she has been quite active and participated in many parliamentary debates, moot court competitions, MUNs and conferences. She has also won Best Speaker and Best Memorial awards in few of these competitions. She also has multiple publications to her name. She has been working with Voltas Ltd., as a Legal Executive since after her graduation. We have taken this opportunity to ask her about the several decisive moments in her career amongst other things including:

    • Importance of co-curricular activities and internships
    • Research papers
    • Recruitment and work at Voltas Ltd.

     

    How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    My decision to study law was quite impulsive to be honest. I had once heard my father say that these days law as a career is quite prospective. Still trying to figure out what he meant by that; but I would not regret the decision whatsoever.

    I am the 1st generation lawyer in my family. It depends on which stream of the profession you want to venture. As you can see, I am answering this interview without having any lawyers in my family; which I believe stands testament to the fact that you really do not need a family base if you wish to enter the corporate world. In the litigation sphere, I have heard it helps, although I do not have any personal account to share in that regard.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at ILS Law College, Pune? What are your thoughts on CGPA and co-curricular activities?

    I was always quite a research oriented student and I love to read. (Yes, the law books as well). So it would be fair to say that I was a decent performer in my college. A great CGPA certainly helps you to crack the seat for an interview, but to transform that to a job offer, it all depends on your understanding of the subject.

    If you are one of those stage frightened students, then these activities tend to push you out from your zone and challenge your limits. Otherwise, these activities certainly impart that extra perspective to add to your knowledge base and understanding of the legal industry as a whole.

     

    Having won best speaker at a few moots, what would be your one advice to budding mooters?

    Just be confident in whatever you wish to state before the judges. That is all that helps once you are inside the courtroom. Prior to that, I feel if you have done your research properly, it should not be much of a problem.

     

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    Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    During my internship days, if I did relevant research on any subject matter I used to pen down my thoughts. Even if not for publication, a write up on any subject matter helps you at any point of time.

    You have to be articulate and know the exact problem that your paper is trying to resolve. I always tried to provide a solution via my research papers. Doing a sporadic research and accumulating data isn’t what a great paper should contain. Infact a good piece of writing must contain a solution to an intricate problem.

     

    You have been working with Voltas Ltd., as a Legal Executive since after your graduation. Tell us a little about your work profile and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    Being a Tata Group Company it has a distinct style of working and believes in recruiting people who have an appetite for learning.  As a prospective employee you can’t be choosy and must take up every opportunity that comes your way and in due course develop an interest and start working towards that.

    As an In house lawyer, I’m exposed to not only arbitration, general corporate & commercial law, Construction law, Engineering Contracts and policy matters but also substantial part of my work includes research and advisory.

     

    Can you tell us about a few of the most challenging problems you have faced thus far? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    As a fresher the biggest challenge that you face is to understand the commercial and technical aspects. It is easy to ignore the technical bit and restrict to the legality. However, it is necessary for a In-house commercial lawyer to understand the business methods with a lot of patience and bridge the gap between the growth of business and legal aspects.

    I’m equipped enough to prioritize my work and passion for dance (Kathak) and travelling.

    I believe it is not about the hours you spend at work rather it is all about willingness, enthusiasm and a right set of people around you.

     

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    What do you think an intern should accomplish in the course of their internship to get a “callback”?

    Enthusiasm, eagerness to learn, diligence and punctuality-these are few of the essential traits that an intern must possess. For a call back, things may be different, but the aforesaid qualities generally are well appreciated by the superiors.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    As an intern it was all about assisting somebody in drafting or carrying out research work but now as a lawyer it involves taking independent decision, work with minimal assistance and research coupled with advisory.

     

    If you could re-live your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently? Where do you see yourself ten years down the line?

    No. I am quite content with the 5 years I had spent at my alma mater. I would love to go back and relive the same life again.

    I love the work that I am currently doing. I would definitely consider myself to be immensely lucky as I can boast of a job which satisfies me. Consequently, I would want to establish myself as a name in the world of Arbitration.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    Just find meaning in whatever you do. Life is short, do not waste your time in something which you do not enjoy or feel content while doing it. As Steve Jobs once famously asked, “If today would have been your last day, would you have been doing what you are doing now?” If the answer is in the affirmative, well done, you are successful already.

    All the best!

     

  • Tanvi Dubey, Associate, SAM & Co., on her internship experience with legends like Ram Jethmalani, J. Dipak Mishra and Mohan Parasaran and on bagging a job

    Tanvi Dubey, Associate, SAM & Co., on her internship experience with legends like Ram Jethmalani, J. Dipak Mishra and Mohan Parasaran and on bagging a job

    Tanvi Dubey is a recent graduate (2015) from Department of Legal Studies and Research, Barkatullah University. She has secured a job at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co. During her time in law school, she focused on co-curricular activities, and had consistently been a great performer. She has spent considerable time in writing and presenting research papers and in securing good and diverse internships, etc.

    She has interned with legends such as Ram Jethmalani, Justice Dipak Mishra and Mohan Parasaran. She had also interned twice at AMSS and worked on issues of Corporate Fraud and Buy back of shares.

    This interview shall serve as an anecdote of tenacity and diligence and the fact that no matter where you study law, there will be opportunities always and you have to make the best of them to succeed.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Her experience from the internships with Ram Jethmalani, Justice Dipak Mishra and Mohan Parasaran;
    • Certificate courses that she did in her law school on Consumer Rights, Human Rights, Course on Law and the Entrepreneur, etc;
    • Importance of enhancing your CV for jobs in law firms and tips regarding the same; and
    • Things one must do at law school.

     

    Tell us a bit about yourself. How would you like to introduce yourself?

    The Story of my life – I was born and brought up in Bhopal (M.P.). I did my schooling from St. Joseph Sr. Secondary School, Bhopal. I belong from a family of lawyers. My Grandfather is a retired D.S.P. Officer and a renowned layer in Bhopal. My mother is Post Graduate in Home Science. She has always inspired me never to stop and move forward towards my goal. Finally and perhaps most crucially the person who inspires me the most is my father. He is a Legal Practitioner and Legal Advisor to various companies. Pursuing Law looked like a destined path. From the first impression of my grandfather’s library to desperately wanting to be my father’s daughter, I grew up romanticizing the legal profession.

    Five years ago, when I entered the law school challenges were many. But my genuine fondness for law made me excel in this beautiful law school journey. I have been keen to use my legal ability for the unempowered and the youth. I am associated with many Youth Foundations, like the Esteem Youth Foundation to help young minds to be the Changemakers for the future generations. My association with Indian Classical Music has contributed immensely towards my self-discipline, presence of mind and concentration. I have performed nearly 50 Vocal Concerts. Despite these commitments, I have been maintaining my academic standards and I have mostly been a high scorer. I should mention that I learned to prioritise, manage time and work under pressure from these exercises. I also got the opportunity to record two music album covers with Radio Mirchi and My FM which are uploaded on Youtube.

     

    Legal studies are still only a backup option for quite a lot of students. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I have always been inclined towards the purpose the law serves, i.e. justice and hence was forced by myself to study law. Not denying the requirement of an observant and analytical approach which the profession mandates for a person to have, I strongly believe myself possessing the same to fair extent and hence most suitable for the profession. Also, since the profession requires hard work and I have no hesitation in so, I thought it to be the profession made for me.

     

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    As a law student which activities did you participate in? Did you have any guidance on how to go about your academics, co-curricular activities and internships?

    Every moment spent in law school was a long chapter added to the personal history of happiness, joy, anguish and secret sorrows. I loved each day of this journey. I loved the place and the people for what they made of me. I fought my insecurities and struggled for my identity. Law school was not about academic record hopping from grades to grades. Although it took a while to realise that the little revolutionaries in our heart were always restless. We too were restless till we put across our ideas, created some noise and drew attention to what matters the most. There were zillion lectures that I deliberately lived through.  Each mile in this journey transformed me beyond what anyone could have ever imagined. That was the Law School for me.

    To be specific about what I did –

    • Got my Paper published in the national and International Law Journal.
    • Got the brilliant opportunity to intern with the legends like the revered Mr. Ram Jethmalani, Hon’ble Justice Dipak Mishra, Judge Supreme Court of India, Mohan Parasaran, Revered Solicitor General of India. I also tried my internships with the trial court and the District Consumer Forum, which gave a much experience about drafting in the lower courts. I also got the opportunity to intern twice with the litigation Department of AMSS.
    • I am associated with Esteem Youth Foundation, which is involved in organising regular programmes to encourage youth like the Yuvashaktikaran programme, The Changemakers Confluence and many other symposiums.
    • I did many Certification Courses to boost up my CV. These were on various areas of law covering Human Rights, IPR, Consumer Rights and also Business Laws.

     

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    What do you feel about the perception that students of certain ‘elite’ NLU’s have a much easier time in kick-starting their career as compared to law students from other colleges? Is this true at all?

    Well, I think that at the end of the day, it is one’s determined effort that matters. Make your effort count for something. Keep going and don’t slow down until you’re well past the goal. If a student is determined from the very first year of law school to do something great and he/she moves forward towards his goal then I don’t think there is a huge difference between a student graduating from a traditional University or an NLU.

    My advice to the students from traditional universities is:-

    • To focus on good internships and to do additional course as only studying law and getting a degree is not going to be enough.
    • Make the most out of time. Try and do whatever you can by the end of fourth year to be well placed.

     

    What were your reasons for taking up so many certificate courses?

    (Tanvi did a couple of Certification Courses on Consumer Rights, Human Rights, Course on Law and the Entrepreneur and also attended a Summer Course organized by The Indian Society for International Law.)

    These courses help a student to develop valuable personal and professional skills. The Certification Courses are designed to give junior law students an understanding of the major areas in law, so that they can get a head start in their future careers in corporate law by excelling at their internships and interviews and gaining an understanding of real-world legal practice. I did most the courses to boost up my CV and to get detailed knowledge about the subject matter.

     

    You have published legal articles in multiple journals when in law school. Do you feel this activity just contributes to building a polished CV or has relevance beyond that?

    There is nothing more important in the practice of law than your ability to put together quality written work. It is important not only for boosting up your CV but also increasing your knowledge in a particular area. Researching skills are incredibly important throughout one’s legal career.

    Firstly, researching skills prove to be a great asset during one’s internships and plays a pivotal role in getting a call back.

    Secondly, you get to keep yourself updated of legal aspects of contemporary issues as most of the research papers are on the contemporary issues.

    Thirdly, publication plays the most important role if one desires to go abroad for his LLM. Most applications for the masters are successful on the basis of the quality of research work he/she did.

    Editing, writing and presenting papers instilled a great amount of confidence in me and improved my research and speaking skills which are very important for any and every law student. I still remember the joy I had when I presented my first paper at the auspicious occasion of completion of 25 Years of Consumer Protection Act at National Law School, Bangalore.

     

    Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing your law school internships.

    (Tanvi’s internships at law school have all been at different places like AMSS, Chamber of Ram Jethmalani, two Judicial Internships, M.P. State Consumer Dispute Redressal Forum, Directorate of Women and Child Development of Madhya Pradesh and JurisConsultus, a Law firm in Bhopal.)

    I have always applied for my internships well in advance and followed up regularly. It’s also important to keep your CV updated. If a student from the very beginning is interested in Corporate then he must try and intern with the top notch firms. One must also try for an extension and a call back internship. For a call back one must be particular about finer details like formatting, good presentation etc. These are things which can set you apart from the other interns. Diligence as well as intelligence plays the most important role in getting a call back internship. Deliver work on time and once you’re done you should be able to go and brief the person who allocated the work to you in the best manner. My heart was set at Amarchand from the very beginning. I realised that rather than get more ‘names’ on my CV, I intern at the same place again, because that allowed me to get better work, and learn a lot more, as then they trust your capabilities.

     

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    How did you go about securing your internship at the Chamber of Shri Ram Jethmalani? What was the nature of your work at Jethmalani’s chamber?

    I applied at the Chambers of Mr. Ram Jethmalani well in advance by the regular process by sending my Resume as well as my covering letter to his email address. I found myself introduced to a new world of law – better than one I romanticized and more dominant than what I read about in college – when I got the brilliant opportunity to intern under the Legend of Indian Bar, Mr. Ram Jethmalani. His words are constant source of inspiration to me. He always praise that “success comes with lots of hard work and knowledge” that inspires me to work hard and achieve my goal. Ram sir’s way of reading each case, questions asked by him in the conferences amazed me every time. At the age of 92 he is more active than anyone else in his office. Hearing Ram sir taking cross-examination was an enriching experience. I can still not forget the fear on the face of the witness being cross-examined by the undoubted champion of cross-examination.

     

    Share your experience working with Justice Dipak Mishra, and also with the ‘Solicitor General of India Mr. Mohan Parasaran. What kind of work did they assign you during your internship?

    When you work under a judge of apex court, you feel distinguished from others. Sitting with His Lordship was quite an experience. You have to go through cases and make a detailed analysis on each law interpreting it with your assumptions and comparing with the present law. The work culture was too strict as it was the decorum of the court which was to be maintained. His Lordship is very friendly and down to earth. As he is a well-wisher and also a regular visitor to our University, we had a lot of time talking over many different issues. Office staffs were also very cooperative. Task was allotted to us by His Lordship himself or by his personal secretary or by the permanent JCs working at the office. It basically included creating briefs about all the cases happening in Judge’s court, ranging from civil, criminal, corporate, bail matters, WPs, etc.

    The best part was the keen interest of His Lordship in teaching the interns about the intricacies of court procedure, court manners, judgment writing and delivering, and clarifying the question of law, whenever and wherever we were stuck.

     

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    What do you have to say about the law students pursuing only law firms?

    Well, one must start out with a Trial Court internship in my opinion. If you intern at a firm in the early years, it won’t really be a mutually beneficial experience, that is to say that the firm might not really gain from your contribution, but it is indisputable that you will. If one is determined for corporate than he must to get an internship in the top notch firms and try for a call back. To get a call back, I’d say there is nothing like a good dose of curiosity! Don’t shy away from asking the lawyer the background that they want the research in, it’ll give you a deeper understanding of the way things work. If one is inclined towards judiciary then firm internships do not really matter. He can rather intern under the National Judicial Academy or try for Judicial Clerkship.

     

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    You have interned twice with the Litigation Team of Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co. What do you think contributed towards your appointment for the 2nd time as an intern?

    I had the finest internship experience at AMSS mostly because of the people I worked with and the quality of work I got during internship. I was constantly guided by my team, which allowed me to learn immensely.  I have interned twice in AMSS. During both of these internships, I did my assignments sincerely. I sticked to the deadlines and never hesitated to ask my team members any doubts that I had while doing the research work. Soft skills are very important. In my second internship, I prepared a corporate law PowerPoint presentation. In AMSS, the presentation holds a lot of weightage when it comes to recruitment. Therefore, it’s important to prepare it with diligently. I primarily worked on Corporate Frauds and Buy back of Shares. I also had to submit a detailed report on the various corporate law scandals. For the interview stage, I brushed up my CV and basic concepts of corporate law, contracts etc.

     

    Did you plan your internships throughout law school did it happen just by chance? How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I was initially inclined towards judiciary. I have been preparing for the Judicial Services from the very first year. The pattern of teaching followed by my college is truly made for judiciary. But, destiny played its role at this place. During my first Supreme Court internship with the Revered Solicitor General of India, I was introduced to a new world of law. Internship under Ram Sir was again an unforgettable experience. Finally and most crucially my internship experience at AMSS changed my mindset and I was very much influenced to work with the brilliant legal minds around. I was looking for varied and challenging work and AMSS provides the best platform to experience the cream of legal work in the country.

    In this journey, I would especially thank SuperLawyer for sharing the profiles of brilliant law students, who have always encouraged me to work hard and instilled the much required confidence in me that I am no less than an NLU student. This had immensely helped me to secure some brilliant internships and prepare for interview.

     

    Did you learn any skills while interning? What are these skills and how did you acquire them?

    I learned to be focused. I always submitted my work before deadline and this helped me to manage and priorities, time and work. I can assure myself at this moment that joining the firm will grant me contentment in every sense meaning thereby, work culture and experience, exposure, as well as financial security.

     

    You have also secured a job offer from SAM & Co. Tell us how did your recruitment happen?

    It was a long recruitment process. It started with the questionnaire that I was required to fill up followed by a Legal problem on Arbitration on which I had to give my Legal opinion. After few days I was called for Interview Rounds which started with a Group Discussion, followed by Technical Interview. And the guys who were shortlisted in the technical rounds had to give a final interview that is HR Interview. For the interview, you should not miss out on reading up even a single topic which you have mentioned in your CV. You should also be able to readily answer any question regarding the field of law you would like to specialize in, which should be supported by your CV (you should have written papers/articles or participated in moot courts/conference relating to that field of law). These would significantly help you in preparing for an interview.

     

    Did you have to undergo an interview before securing your recruitment at SAM & Co.? Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    Honestly, one mustn’t frame their opinion about interviews based on what others tell them. The reason is that every interview is unique. However, be thorough with your CV, and basics of corporate law, contracts, property law, banking etc. Customize your CV according to the firm/company/lawyer you are applying for, and stress on those parts of your work experience which hold value for them. If your CV is heavily loaded with co-curricular activities, you can cut down on the section of extra-curricular activities in your CV. I was asked questions based on my CV, general corporate law and a couple of HR questions as well. My advice to all reading this is that there’s one thing you constantly need to question- “Why me”. Why should they pick you out of the hordes of applicants?

     

    How did you manage to keep up your grades?

    Sincerity and dedication are one of the most essential factors to be considered. One need not entirely focus on reading the course material. It might even be tedious at times. A rather interesting approach, which worked well for me, is to read latest judgments on the subject. I tried to make every subject interesting by adopting some different approach towards it like for example I read the comparative analysis in a tabular form of the Companies Act 1956 and Companies Act 2013, which helped me to learn and remember things in a better way. I think regular studies play a very important role in maintaining grades in college.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job?

    Grades are extremely important in getting good placements. However, a number of other factors like internships, Certification Courses, Moot Experience co-curricular and extra-curricular activities also add up. Therefore, one must try to be an all-rounder rather than just focusing on grades.

     

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    What should one law student aspiring for a job at top law firms do? How would you recommend they prepare in their last 2 years at law school?

    From the very beginning a student must be very well focused. He must to the additional Courses, do some brilliant internships and MAKE THE BEST OUT OF TIME. He must have an excellent CV by the end of fourth year in order to get a job at a top Law Firm. There is no substitute to hard work. A student must know the right websites to keep him updated and I think everyone will have the right concoction. Try everything that you possibly can, in these five years – participate in competitions, write research papers, volunteer for events, go for fests, and try bring out the real you at the end of this law school journey.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers?

    “To be able to work with devotion at something one likes can be the greatest and most enduring source of human happiness.”, said Justice M.C. Chagla,

    You must make the most out of your vacations. Intern with a lawyer/firm whenever you get an opportunity to do so, for you will learn the practical aspects of what you read in law school, which will give you an edge over others.

    Strive to have an all round CV. Intern with different courts, companies, law firms and do it early so that when you make a final decision, you are sure about it. Represent your university in at least one moot, be part of at least one committee for 2 years, present at least one paper at a conference and have at least one publication. Also, manage your time wisely and do take out time for your hobbies/sports, so that you enjoy your time while in law school.

  • Khusboo Khatreja, Associate, DSK Legal on LL.B after B.Com and work experience at a law firm

    Khusboo Khatreja, Associate, DSK Legal on LL.B after B.Com and work experience at a law firm

    Khusboo Khatreja is a Bachelor in Commerce graduate from Kirorimal college, Delhi University. While in last year of her college, she was placed in Ernst and Young but due to interest in law, she decided to join Delhi University and completed her LL.B. She graduated in law in 2013.

    She has been outstanding as a student and was mainly focused on academics. Being a commerce graduate, she was inclined towards corporate law and therefore pursued her internships accordingly. She also managed to pursue Company Secretary course along with law. Soon after graduation, she started working with DSK Legal, Delhi and her main practice area includes real estate and general corporate law.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • LL.B from CLC after B.Com from Kirorimal
    • First year of work at DSK Legal, Delhi
    • Managing deadlines and experience of a steep learning curve

     

    Given that most of our readers belong to legal fraternity, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    Hi!! I’m Khushboo Khatreja. A 25 years ‘young’ lawyer, who is endeavouring to perceive this dynamic legal profession. I am currently associated with Delhi office of DSK Legal as an Associate. I graduated from Faculty of Law, Delhi University in 2013 and joined DSK Legal right after completing my professional degree. It has been a great experience so far under the guidance of Mr. Niraj Kumar.

    During this short tenure, I have had a chance to work on various exciting assignments and representing some big clients. DSK gives you ample opportunities to handle the assignments in a manner which backs your personal growth and development.

    At this stage, I look towards learning new things, shaping my knowledge and to expand my horizon. Presently, I am handling assignments related to corporate advisory and real estate. My aim is to keep exploring at this level, and have a specialization after certain level of practice.

     

    Having done B.Com, what motivated you to choose law as a career? Or did it just happen?

    Frankly, I feel this statement is true. I was determined to pursue B.com (Hons.) but that is not the case with LL.B. Choosing law as a career option was not pre planned at all. I got a placement in Ernst and Young during the last year of my graduation. But pursuing LL.B was on my cards, and during that placement period, my cousin motivated me to explore options in legal field. I gave it a thought and tried my luck in Delhi University’s LL.B entrance examination. So, the credit goes to my cousin! And I have no regrets.

     

    As a graduate of Delhi University, have you faced any comparison with NLUs? What would you say to the future graduates of DU regarding this?

    I have heard people giving statements on this ‘inclination towards NLU grads’. Fortunately, I have not experienced such thing. Delhi University was, is still is and will remain the premier institution when it comes to legal studies. What matters is your knowledge and determination and everything else becomes drab should you have these standards. I owe a lot to Delhi University, be it Kirorimal College or Faculty of Law, for who I am today.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Being a commerce graduate, my area of interest has always been corporate laws. To explore and have in-depth understanding of corporate laws, I pursued Company Secretary Course as well. It really was beneficial to understand corporate and allied laws theoretically as well as practically through this.  I have to accept that I was a reserved student. I had a limited approach towards my legal studies. I was much occupied during my course on account of handling my CS studies as well.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

    I interned at Khaitan, Sud and Partners, ASA Law Firm and Jindal Steel and Power Limited. At KSP, I worked on matters related to project finance, at ASA, I had a chance to understand corporate debt restructuring mechanism and at Jindal, it was more of drafting and understanding the complexities involved in various commercial agreements (domestic as well as international). As one can see, I have had a diversified experience in my internships. At that stage, I wanted to explore different fields and I was fortunate that I got to work with the aforementioned entities. Further, I was determined to work on corporate side for reasons explained earlier and thus, no litigation experience is on my plate.

     

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    What are your thoughts on activities like mooting, debating and publications in journals? What skills do law students acquire by engaging themselves in such activities?

    They play a double fold role in a law student’s life. Apart from brushing your confidence and knowledge, they provide add on to your CV. One improves his/her drafting and soft skills by engaging into these activities. At a start-up level, they do play a vital role. Many firms place importance in these activities while selecting a candidate.

     

    Did your law school education prepare you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute after graduation?

    Yes of course. Delhi University gives you practical exposure to a particular issue. The curriculum is totally based on precedents. It helps you to understand the real issue at your work place or internships, as the case may be. The theoretical aspect to a particular topic is limited. It’s more of case based studies.

     

    Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult one. What was your case?

    This indeed is true. At this level you are now all alone striving for an opportunity and yes, the expectations are too high at this stage..!!.During my last semester itself, I started looking for placement. The biggest challenge was not having someone who could guide me. Being the only lawyer in my family, I had to do everything on my own and I had no contacts. With the help of friends and understanding the process, things became clear with time. I feel that in this field contacts can get you anywhere. You can expect a call for an interview at least..!!

     

    You started your career at DSK Legal, New Delhi and currently work as an Associate there. What had contributed towards this appointment?

    One of my senior told me about this opportunity and I did not let it escape.Otherwise, one can approach DSK by submitting his/her CV at our website www.dsklegal.com. Depending on the candidate’s profile and DSK’s requirement, DSK approaches the candidate.

     

    What are the main practice areas of Delhi office of DSK Legal? What does your current work profile at DSK consists of? How is a typical workday like?

    We have two partners in Delhi office. One handles litigation and other handles real estate and general corporate practice. My current profile consists of real estate and general corporate practice. It’s a blessing to work at DSK when it comes to ‘work-life’ balance. I start at 9.30 setting out the deliverables of the day first. Work life is pretty comfortable here as my seniors and partner are only concerned with the quality and time line of a deliverable. How I do it, that’s completely my look out.

     

    Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern?

    When you are working in a law firm, forget about anything which is predictable. There are new challenges every day which you face and which helps you to grow as a lawyer. No issue is related with each other. Every client has a different issue and their requirement as well as expectations from a lawyer is different. What I find more interesting is presentation and interpretation of law in such a manner which addresses the client’s issue and requirements. It’s a thinking process at all times.

     

    Can you tell us about a few of the most challenging problems you have faced thus far?

    When you enter into the job world in this profession, every day is challenging. Beginning was not easy for me as well. Everyday used to be challenging and hectic. And then there comes a transaction for which you are solely responsible and which is your ‘Baptism by Fire’. After initial 3-4 months of joining DSK, I was given to handle a funding transaction on my own and that’s where I felt that it’s not easy to survive in this profession. That is one transaction which still is a nightmare for me.

     

    How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    We follow basic professional code of conduct at our workplace. There is no special requirement as such, but yes, there is no compromise on what is expected from you as a professional. Nobody is perfect and mistakes are bound to happen. What matters is how you deal with it and learn from it. I follow the same path. However, mistakes on basic aspects are not acceptable.

     

    Would you say your undergraduate B.Com degree has been helpful in your career?

    It truly was. It’s so easy to read financial documents and to have an idea about true position of a company while conducting due diligence for a particular transactions. In DU, we have contract law and taxation in our curriculum which provided a base to study these subjects and understand it in a more efficient manner for my law degree.

     

    What kind of internship/recruitment application do you think stands out positively and has a much higher likelihood of being accepted?

    Applications which are short yet expressive are the ones any recruiter would love to read. A good professional resume without any bragging ingredient in it acts as a deal maker. Keep applications short and simple. Take it not as a comprehensive list of your career history but as a marketing document selling you as the perfect person for the job.

     

    Would you say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice? What was the case in your situation?

    This statement is somewhere true. For a practicing professional each assignment is a learning experience. While pursuing a law degree, a student has a limited approach i.e. understanding the legal issue. But at a practicing stage, what should be the approach towards such issue in a cost and time efficient manner is a primary focus. Same is the case with me. My approach towards an issue has changed altogether after entering into what you call a ‘Real World’.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line? Do you aspire to be like somebody from this field?

    In 10 years’ time, I see myself at a good position, progressing in legal field and earning new skills to the benefit of my clients. I do not aspire to be like somebody, I would like to be ‘ME’.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Pursue your dreams and don’t be afraid of failures. Failures are good experiences which help you in long run. People succeed because they failed in their life at some point of time. Keep going is the myntra!!

  • Jitender Chawla, General Manager – Legal, Cinepolis, on litigation at District Court and work experience in corporate bodies like Moser Baer, PVR and Indiabulls

    Jitender Chawla, General Manager – Legal, Cinepolis, on litigation at District Court and work experience in corporate bodies like Moser Baer, PVR and Indiabulls

    Jitender Chawla is a graduate from Maharishi Dayanand University (Batch of 2000). Soon after graduation, he started practicing law at District Court, Rohtak for an one year before moving to Indiabulls Securities as an Assistant Manager-Legal. He has also worked as Team Member – Portfolio Administration at Cushman & Wakefield, as a Legal Officer at Moser Baer India Limited and Assistant Legal Manager at PVR Limited. Meanwhile, he managed to pursue an LL.M. from Maharishi Dayanand University and a diploma in IPR from Indian Institute of Law, New Delhi. Currently he works as a General Legal Manager at Cinepolis India Pvt. Ltd.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at MDU
    • Work experience at Cushman & Wakefield, Moser Baer and PVR
    • Induction and work at Cinepolis

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background.

    I like to be viewed as a person of high values, discipline and integrity. It is always the attitude which is like an in-born quality; the skills are learnt throughout your life. I was an average student and more inclined towards playing football and other games. My father has to visit my school every quarter for assessment of my education on special call from the school principal.

     

    What impressed upon you the idea to study law?

    One of my father’s friends was a lawyer, who often visited our place when I was in 5th standard, and was living a luxurious lifestyle. Initially this was the reason which prompted me to study Law. Later during the school days I visited courts for some purposes, which strengthened my decision to study law as I felt that the law is an important, independent and one pillar of our democracy and its participation is highly appreciated in the society.

     

    You have done your graduation and post-graduation from Maharishi Dayanand University. How would you describe your experience?

    Studying law at MD University has given most cherished moments in my life, we have been mentored by great professors and seniors throughout our law course. Participation in debates on the on-going legal matters/media trials were always encouraged and were of my interest as well. Moreover, we learnt to be straightforward and have empathy towards people.

     

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    Soon after graduation, you started working at Indiabulls Securities as an Assistant Manager-Legal. How did your appointment take place?

    Prior to joining Indiabulls I was practicing law at District Court, Rohtak and was preparing for LLM. During this time one of my brother friend and my school alumni approached me with an offer to join this company. He encouraged me to join the corporate and to appear for the interview next day morning. The decision was tough and I decided to appear for the same and got selected by the then Managing Director to handle the litigation and other matters pertaining to the Company.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?

    Shifting from the practice to the corporate did take sometime to adjust. Earlier I was independent and was representing the clients in the court, however in the corporate there are many processes and reporting structure that you have to follow. For me it was flip side of the coin, now I was a client for other lawyers in the court. I had to do lot of briefing and review/vetting of the filings before the courts representing the company. Constant touch with the appointed lawyers gave me comfort that I am still part of the court procedures and learning new cases. But over a period of time the nature of business of the company defines your professional growth, which gets limited as compared to the vast experience one gets while practicing law as one gets exposure to all kind of matters.

     

    How did your appointment at Cushman & Wakefield take place?

    The opportunity to join C&W came from a family friend who was working as Senior HR Manager with the organization. The opening was to work on real estate portfolios of the clients of C&W. Hunger to learn more made me excited to join the organization. I had good experience on the Contracts management before I left the organisation.

     

    Thereafter you joined Moser Baer and later, switched over to PVR. How did that go?

    Experience of working at the district Court, Indiabulls and C&W gave me the confidence to handle the Real Estate contracts and litigations. I was having better understanding on the coordination required for handling/representing the Company matters. The requisition for Moserbaer had lot of similarity with my previous profile. Afterworking for two years with Moserbaer I joined PVR, which helped me strengthen and improve my skills on contractual matters.

     

    How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student? Did you take part in any extra-curricular activities during your law school days?

    During my college days, I was associated with “People for Animals”, an NGO. I made many good friends during this association with NGO. The mental peace one gets by working for the welfare of stray animals is very satisfying and further strengthens one’s ability to work with focused mind.

     

    Currently, you are working as General Manager – Legal at Cinepolis India Pvt. Ltd. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    I was working in the entertainment industry for 3 years before I joined Cinepolis. It was a new entrant in the cinema exhibition industry and was looking for the professionals from the same industry. Then MD of the company called me to have a discussion with him. After the discussion with him I was impressed with their Idea, attitude and growth plan for the company. I was having a big opportunity to handle the legal department of the startup. It was exciting and challenging to join the company. I was 4th employee of the company when I joined 6 years back and today we have more than 1000 employees.

     

    How did your appointment as a General Manager of the Legal Team at Cinepolis India Pvt. Ltd. take place?

    It was a small startup and we were having a very small office. It was more like a family working towards a common cause. There was no formal HR that point of time and my appointment letter was given to me by then MD of the company. We were multitasking and working hours were long as we were working towards the success of the organization

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    Today, I handle the legal department of the company. I support the management to strategies on the matter related to contractual obligations of the company. I have implemented the process to create the contractual obligations and to streamline the liaison process for the company.I oversee all the contracts, legal disputes and give legal training on the processes.

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? What are the key qualities one should posses for becoming a corporate lawyer?

    I see a lot of growth in the field of Law. As we know about the India growth story and huge investment happening in India, there is lot of potential for a law student in India. The three qualities that I would emphasise on are Integrity, commitment and Straightforwardness to be successful as a lawyer.

     

    What would be your message to law students?

    Keep it Simple.

    Positive attitude, empathy and focused approach. Someone has stated “If something is wrong, fix it if you can. But train yourself not to worry. Worry never fixes anything”.

     

  • Santanu Ghosh, Senior Manager-Legal, Corporate Finance, Tata Capital on varied work experience in litigation and in-house

    Santanu Ghosh, Senior Manager-Legal, Corporate Finance, Tata Capital on varied work experience in litigation and in-house

    Santanu Ghosh pursued Masters in English Literature from University of Calcutta before deciding to pursue law at T.M.B.Law College. He graduated in law from T.M.B. Law College, Bhagalpur ( Tilka Manjhi Bhagalpur University) in 1998. He started his career as a practising advocate and after eight years of practice, he joined ICICI Bank as a Legal Manager. He also holds experience of working at Standard Chartered-STCI Capital Markets Ltd, Law Masters and Mumbai International Airport Pvt. Ltd. (GVK). Currently he works as a Senior Manager- Legal, Corporate Finance at Tata Capital, Mumbai. In this interview he talks about his work experiences and career moves.

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Please tell us a bit about how you gravitated towards law.

    I am a first generation lawyer who had no clue why he was doing law. I did my schooling from St. Xaviers’ Collegiate School, Kolkata and thereafter did my Masters in English Literature from University of Calcutta. There were some career options like doing B.ED and becoming a teacher and I won’t deny that I did not try to get a part time job as a teacher. It didn’t work out and on a friend’s suggestion, I started a C.S. course and alongwith that enrolled myself at TMB Law College, Bhagalpur for LL.B. I passed the LL.B. and did not complete the C.S.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days? How were you at academics? How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious career in legal?

    There is not much to say that my law school days. I attended some classes and took private tuition and did reasonably well. A good CGPA is certainly required to get the first breakthrough. But after that it’s your competency on the job that matters most.

     

    What were your major interests as a student of law? Any suggestions for the law students on how to deal with Pandora box of laws?

    My major interest was Law of Evidence and Contract Act. I would suggest the law students not to try to think too deeply about any particular subject because from my experience I say that it does not really matter in the professional field. But certainly people will have their likings and preferences which they should nurture.

     

    How do you think internships are beneficial to law students?

    Internships are very beneficial if the law students are in right hands. I personally did not have the benefit of such internships but yes, I learnt a lot of things from my seniors in the early days though there was no money.

     

    What kind of challenges did you face during your litigation experience at the Supreme Court?

    The basics of interpretation of law enthralled me during my litigation practice. I felt on top of the world whenever my interpretation was accepted by my seniors and the Court. It was not a planned decision to start a career in litigation. It came naturally. Finding a senior was very difficult as I knew nobody. Ultimately my maternal aunt gave me a reference and I joined a senior lawyer at Howrah Court. In the first six months, my average income per month was not more that Rs.1000/-. Sounds awful but it’s true. I joined another lawyer in the Metropolitan Courts thereafter and had a very rich experience in Criminal law. The economics was a little better though not enough. Thereafter I joined a Solicitor at High Court at Calcutta and for the first time was exposed to both civil as well as criminal law. Had a very enriching experience for two years at a stretch when I shifted my base to Delhi with Rs 5000/- in my pocket with the hope to do something better. I luckily met an old school friend who is an established lawyer now in Supreme Court and I had the opportunity to work with Late Kirit Raval, ex-Solicitor General of India and Senior Advocate Joydip Gupta.

     

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    You happened to switch back and forth between your own litigation practice and your role as an in-house counsel. Please tell us a bit about your work profiles in the banking sector and at the Mumbai International Airport.

    (After having worked as a practicing advocate for eight years, Santanu switched to ICICI Bank as a Legal Manager. Later, he also had the opportunity to work as a Legal Manager at Standard Chartered-STCI Capital Markets Ltd. Santanu also had the opportunity to work as a Legal Manager at Mumbai International Airport Pvt. Ltd.)

    Honestly speaking the switch from litigation to bank/job happened because I was not earning enough and the switch back to my own Law Firm happened because I could not forget the days of practice. Though money was not forthcoming in litigation practice, but there is something very alluring about it. It all depends if you have the passion for litigation. It is another fact that the Law Firm did not run successfully and I switched back to Corporate with Mumbai International Airport. The profile in MIAL was purely litigation of different types and I got the opportunity to work with several good lawyers in Mumbai.

     

    How did your appointment as a Senior Manager- Legal, Corporate Finance at Tata Capital take place?

    The reason for making this choice was to get an opportunity to do intricate financial matters. In both my roles in ICICI Bank and Standard Chartered, the issues did not require me to delve into the finer issues of finance which is very much required here. The shift was made possible as they were also looking for a litigation candidate who has some experience in finance but a major experience in handling different types of litigation.

     

    What does your current work profile at Tata Capital consists of? How is a typical workday like?

    The present profile consists of taking care of all litigations of Commercial Finance. Initially I was handling the litigation of Infrastructure Finance when there was no legal team for Infra.

    A typical workday consists of managing inter departmental issues as also court litigation, having conferences with advocates and strategizing future course of action. In most corporates the work sometimes settles down to a predictable pattern. The most challenging problems are normally convincing the relevant non legal persons within the organization for a particular issue on board. In most cases the general tendency is to put all responsibilities on the legal staff but the law is not that accommodative. For example in cases where evidence is required to be given about any transaction, it is always better if the person who is responsible for the transaction comes forward and gives evidence before the Court. A case may be lost if such does not happen. However most of time we face questions as to the necessity for a Sales person or a Marketing guy to give evidence when all legal issues are the responsibility of the legal team. This is where a lot of effort goes into convincing them. I was lucky that there were no such issues at Tata Capital.

     

    santanu-ghosh-2

    What amount of legal work is there? What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case? What have been your failures and successes?

    We have quite a good amount of work challenge. For example there may be one transaction which has given rise to a litigation. Apparently one might think that it is one transaction one case but that’s not so. In Commercial Finance a loan can be recycled and it gives rise to a fresh loan which gives rise to a fresh cause of action. Also as per RBI guidelines, legal steps are required to be taken mandatorily for NPA cases. So an update is always available to the legal team and it is expected that the legal team will also play a role in assuring or at least trying to stop an account becoming an NPA.

    For a difficult case, we prepare a list of dates and then forward the same to the concerned Advocate to prepare the case.  Apart from that we also give our opinions on contentious issues and strategy making is the next step.

    There has been quite a few successes in big stake matters where after strong legal measures, customers have settled matters. Even where it appeared that we may not get the apt orders, keeping in mind that ultimately we will succeed in the long run, the opposite parties have settled the matter.

     

    What do think are the most essential things required to excel at work?

    My work mantra is simple. Maintain a time table and finish the work as per schedule. There will be disturbances which you have to take into your stride and go ahead. The most essential things are focussing on the job, understanding the business and the relevant law. The rest will fall in place.

     

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. Would you agree?

    I also agree that working in Corporates provide a better work life balance but on the contrary it doesn’t grow you intellectually like a Law Firm or the way a practicing lawyer does.

     

    Does Tata Capital take interns? What is the process for same?

    Of course interns are taken. The relevant candidate’s profile is considered by the Legal Head and is forwarded to Human Resource department which then completes the formalities.

     

    When do you say the actual learning takes place in the legal profession?

    As far as legal knowledge and development is concerned, I agree that unless one practices in Courts, it is impossible to learn the finer nuances of law. However Corporates give you a different angle to your learning. It gives you a panoramic view of the working style of the Corporates. The working style of a practising lawyer and Corporates are vastly different. One who is able to merge the two properly will be a hugely successful lawyer.

    In my case as an individual lawyer there were many learnings but money was not forthcoming. Unfortunately I could not get an opportunity to work in a Law Firm but still I relish the days of my struggle as an independent lawyer.

     

    What are your future plans from here on?

    My future plans are obviously to merge both my experiences into success. May be a stint in a good law firm can help.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    My parting message to aspirant corporate lawyers would be not to take the job as a job but to try to use it to learn and develop one’s legal skills. One has to go beyond the job’s requirements to enhance the knowledge failing which one shall lag behind in this competition.

  • Vinay Subramanian, Associate, AMSS, on moot courts, internship experience and job experience at Luthra and Cyril Amarchand

    Vinay Subramanian, Associate, AMSS, on moot courts, internship experience and job experience at Luthra and Cyril Amarchand

    Vinay Subramanian graduated from NLU, Jodhpur in 2011. He has been an avid mooter and debator during law school. He has won various moot court competitions including 9th Amity Law College National Moot Court Competition. He has also won the ‘Best Victim’s counsel’ award at the prestigious “International Criminal Court Trials Competition held at Hague, Netherlands”. By the time he graduated, he had received a job offer from Luthra and Luthra Law Offices where he worked for around three years. He is currently working as an Associate at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLUJ
    • winning moot court competitions
    • Internships and Work experience at Luthra and Luthra Law Office
    • Induction and work at CAM

     

    Before I begin, I would like to present my disclaimer to any and every person who purposefully and accidentally and who by ‘accidental purposefulness’ directs himself to this page:

    “By reading this you are officially on notice and you agree from the beginning of time to the end of the world that you will be bound by that notice (whatever that means). The associate herein (whose stellar repute is beyond any contention) hereby makes no guarantees, warranties, or representations, whether express or implied, or specific or general, regarding the accidental humorous or deliberately soporific replies to the questions in this interview. The associate (whose always just doing his job really) does not indemnify the readers from any actions, trauma, claims or injuries (whether physical or mental) caused by the trauma of reading this piece or the reader’s choice to pursue a legal career being influenced by the piece hereby. All legal careers are subject to client moods’risks and the law student must always bill carefully while at work and agree to always have a blast.”

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Darn! I now feel like I am giving my first firm placement interview all over again. Here it goes – I am Vinay Subramanian. I completed my B.A.LLB. with Honors in Business Law from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. I am originally from Mumbai and am presently working in the General Corporate/M&A team at Cyril Amarchand & Mangaldas & Co., Mumbai.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    There is an interesting background to this. Unlike most other states, where it is your +12 grades that supposedly ‘shape’ up your future, in Maharashtra, the +10 grades are considered equally important since they determine eligibility to a junior college and the relevant streams. Though I had scored decently in my +10 exams and could have easily gotten admission for Science or Commerce stream, I chose to pursue Arts at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai, unlike hoardes of other students who were making a beeline for the science and commerce streams. Thus, I probably was more inclined to remain ‘offbeat’. After clearing my +12, I was pursuing Economics and Statistics Hons. at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai. At that time (around 2005-06), the notion was that it is wise to choose a legal career only if one came from a family of lawyers. Most of the national law schools set up at that time were still in its infancy and hardly had a batch or two passing out of it. In fact, at that time, even the theory of having a 5 year law course was unheard of in Mumbai. Luckily, one of my batch mates drew my attention to the existence of national law schools and the tremendous scope a legal career had on offer. When I dug deeper, I realized that a legal profession had tremendous potential and could turn out to be one of the more rewarding and lucrative careers that students would look forward to in the coming years. Hence, adopting an ‘offbeat approach’ once again, I decided to dive into the water and test its depths.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLUJ? What are the co-curricular activities you took part at NLUJ?

    “Coming back to Life” is how I would describe my experience at NLUJ in a nutshell. Looking back, I am confident in saying that NLUJ has shaped the individual that I am today. Apart from academics, interacting with students coming from different parts of the country introduced me to new cultures and ways of life. The location of the university also provided me an opportunity to put on my travellers cap and wander across the beautiful landscapes of Rajasthan.

    With respect to co-curricular activities, the one thing remarkable about NLUJ is its encouragement for participation in extra-curricular activities.

    I was fortunate enough to represent my alma mater in several moot court competitions, both nationally and internationally. It was a proud moment when we were chosen to represent India at ‘The International Criminal Court Trials Competition held at Hague, Netherlands’ and even managed to bag the ‘Best Victim’s counsel’ award. Apart from this, I have won the ‘9th Amity Law College National Moot Court Competition’ at Amity Law School, New Delhi.

    I have also been an ardent proponent of, and participated in a number of, parliamentary debates held across the country. I have also been a keen fan of travelling and have participated in a college fests held across various law schools in the country.

     

    Tell us about your internship experiences and how they shaped your career choices later.

    I have had the good fortune of working with reputed firms focussing on different areas like constitutional law, civil procedure laws, securities laws, criminal procedure, banking laws, foreign investment laws and contract laws. These include Luthra & Luthra Law Offices (Delhi),  Wadia Gandhy & Co (Mumbai), Fox, Mandal & Little (Mumbai), Bhasin & Co. (Delhi) and K. Ashar & Co. (Mumbai) to name a few.

    All these internships played a definitive role in determining my career. Particularly, it was in one of these firms that I had the unique opportunity of drafting amendments to a state legislation in Maharashtra, which were present and passed by the state legislature a year later. This motivated me towards taking up drafting documents and identifying issues in different legislations.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Are these helpful even after the student graduates?

    This is a tricky one. It is like asking a doctor whether cutting a frog or cockroach into two during his science class practical is helpful during his career as a neurosurgeon. Moot courts, extempore competitions, parliamentary debates, legal writings and paper presentations must be seen as an aid for the development of the skill of advocacy rather than trying to exactly account for how much of it is applied during one’s legal career. These are mere tricks that prepare you for the real world. I am sure a student who has faced a room full of dissident judges barraging questions left right and centre at him would stand at a better footing while dealing with a high pressure negotiating board room with parties breathing down each other’s necks. Similarly, a student who has a number of publications to his name will be able to draft a legal opinion in a more focussed and cogent manner.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    The above question seems to be limited in scope. I want to take a step further to answer how much a law school experience helps anyone in the real life actually. Much like the mantra for the foundations of any stable and happy relationship, a college education can offer only as much as you are willing to accept. Similarly, in a law school as well, it is the student’s choice as to how much he wants to extract from his college experience and apply it in the real world.

    We were also fortunate that NLUJ adopted a hand in glove approach while approaching academics and co-curricular activities.  For instance, it is probably one of the only law schools in the country which made mooting compulsory for every law student under every law subject and allocated a portion of the grades to it. Thus, this ensured that though students had to focus on academics, it necessarily didn’t mean that they have to sacrifice mooting experiences for academics.  Further, this approach also introduced students to mooting from the first year onwards providing students a head start and acclimatised them to a mooting environment.

     

    After graduating from NLUJ, you joined Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. How did you secure your appointment? What kind of responsibilities you were entrusted with there? How would you describe your experience working there?

    The experience at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices was very enriching. I secured my appointment through the process of campus placements. I worked in the general corporate/M&A team at the Mumbai office. We were mostly involved in advising healthcare and pharmaceutical companies, private equity and strategic investment funds and media companies. We also acted for private equity funds and foreign companies in making investments in the healthcare and pharmaceutical sectors. In my personal professional capacity, I acted as the lead associate in several of these transactions. My role included assisting in documentation, negotiations, interacting with clients and generally leading the deal under the able guidance of my partner.

    As a personal experience, the first three years of your job forms the fulcrum of your entire legal career. In the first or the second year, an associate must be able to decide whether he is cut out for the job or not. However, for this to happen, the firm must constantly be providing a challenging environment to the associate where he is challenged on a daily basis and thereafter arrive at such a decision. I was very fortunate to have an office and a boss who kept pushing me against all odds and forced me to constantly think outside the box.

    As part of the general corporate/M&A team, Luthra & Luthra provides an exceptional insight into the field of foreign investment law, which is the buzzword for any general corporate lawyer. Their understanding of foreign exchange law regulations takes into account the pragmatic approach taken by the regulators towards the law.

     

    After having worked at Luthra and Luthra Law Offices for almost three years, how did the shift to AMSS take place? What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    Every law firm in India is a different setup by itself with its own peculiarities relating to professional etiquettes like work timings, work exposure, client servicing, documentation review etc. It is important for any corporate attorney to get exposed to these different setups before settling down for a specific setup. I believe that the best time to take this leap is before the lawyer becomes too senior in the hierarchy. This was what predominantly guided me to make this choice. Also, at the time, my partner was himself moving to AMSS and I thought the switch was allowing me to enjoy best of both worlds – work under the guidance of the same partner and with a firm that is one of the best law firms in the country for gaining corporate law experience.

     

    What does your current work profile at AMSS consist of? Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein and what’s a typical day like? How has been your experience as an Associate at AMSS so far?

    AMSS has been a great experience so far. My current work profile consists of both advisory and transactional work streams. From an advisory perspective, I am involved in providing detailed advice and drafting legal opinions on different aspects of corporate, contractual and foreign investment law. The introduction of new Companies Act has made this field even more interesting since several of these provisions are new and untested. This requires us to delve into the intent of the law (wherever an ambiguity is present) and provide pioneering views on the relevant issues.

    From a transaction standpoint, I am involved in running transactions for several private equity players under the guidance of my partner. This requires constant interaction with clients, negotiating with counter parties and driving the transaction to its consummation.

    A typical day at AMSS is ‘work, work and work’, which, contrary to what it seems to suggest, is not actually a ‘bad’ thing. The multitude and nature of transactions that keeps pouring into this firm is phenomenal. What makes it more worthwhile is the uniqueness of each transaction and question, which makes us push ourselves and strive for excellence.

     

    Corporate law comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    Honestly, as any other normal law student, the remuneration was primarily what attracted me towards this field. However, once I entered, I got sucked in due to the variety and diversity of my legal sector. A general corporate law firm profile entails an associate to shoulder different types of responsibilities. Apart from the provisions of company law and contract law, an associate is constantly exposed to different arenas of law on a daily basis. This is very different from a specifically focussed specialization like Competition law or Intellectual Property Laws. This kept the day challenging for me and I continued to row on.

    When people talk about how corporate law comes with a humungous workload, I somehow feel that it is not entirely true. A litigation lawyer has an equally strenuous work life (if not more) as compared to corporate lawyers. I have a number of my peers who are working in different spheres of litigation and I see them slogging equally (if not more) than us. A humungous workload is the benchmark for any lawyer and not alone corporate lawyers.

    The best way to manage workload and personal life is to take advantage of your ‘leaves’ from time to time at regular intervals. As I am an ardent traveller, I like to pack my bags off spontaneously and see what the roads have on offer for me. Even getting away on weekends to nearby places helps you de-stress and reinvigorate one self.

     

    According to you what are the qualities that make a good lawyer?

    I don’t think I am qualified enough to list down these. But from looking at my partner and seniors in action, its determination, focus and genuine fondness for the job that maketh the man in any profession. The thumb rule is – every morning when you wake up, ask yourself whether

    (a) you are determined to reach the office that day;

    (b) you are genuinely enjoying what you are doing; and

    (c) you are being constantly challenged (because honestly ‘staying in your comfort zone’ is just another way for saying that one is ‘stuck in a rut’).

    If the answer is ‘yes’ you will automatically excel at whatever you do and become a good lawyer.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes?

    I think my answer to the above mentioned question answers the first part. Now for the second part – All I can say is that “To err is human but… to have a client who has forgiven you must be a client who must be cherished and treasured for life and one must ensure that he never leaves your side!” But on a serious note, like any other job, an associate is bound to make mistakes since he is new to the field. Learning from your mistakes is what is more important than crying over the ‘spilt milk’. The best strategy is to remain focussed and keep questioning yourself at every stage of the transaction or advice. The moment you start asking too many questions about a particular point you realize that you do not have enough information on the relevant issue and you need to start reading up. Once you have read enough and understood the nuances, you will realize you are much more confident and this in turn will result in lesser mistakes. Also, this is where the role of an able and approachable senior comes into play. Having a helpful senior provides an associate with a self of reassurance.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    In my experience, a high CGPA does come in handy at time of procuring a pre-placement offer or getting a foreign firm internship. But I think the buck stops there. Lately, we are seeing a number of top tier firms slowly changing their strategy to pick an “all-rounder lawyer” rather than a one who has only chased the kites of grades during his law school life. Interestingly, on a lighter note, this could also explain why we see most of the top tier firms doing exceptionally well in law firm cricket and football tournaments as well nowadays.

     

    These days there are many law students rushing forth to intern at law firms from their first year itself throughout till their fifth year. What do you have to say about the advisability of law students pursuing such a course of action?

    Choosing your internships wisely during your legal education can be very advantageous when one finally makes a career decision on specializing in one specific area of law. As a law student, we have a very different notion of the specialization areas. An internship actually helps a student break the myths and notions and helps him bridge his expectations with the reality of work life. I believe that at least for the first 3 years, a law student must try to do an internship in every possible area of law that he has added to his wish list for specialization. Also, it would be best during this time, to not join the bigger firms but start with the smaller firms, where there is more scope of interaction with the seniors. By the end of the 3rd year, it is important for the student to zero in on the specific legal area that he intends to specialize in. It is the 4th and 5th year, where a student must focus on choosing internships with firms that specialize in the area that he wants to work in. I used the above as a thumb rule to choose my internships.

     

    AMSS takes on interns as well. What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Unlike what law students think, an intern for associates at top tier firms are as important as what an internship at a top tier firm means to an intern. With the “acche din” juggernaut rolling presently, the associates have their hands more than full. An intern who has a basic idea of the law, is focussed and determined eases the pressure of the associate since he is able to focus on other things while the intern is sharing his/her workload.

    What associates look out for in interns is ‘sincerity’ and ability to grasp propositions well. Thus, if an intern is not able to understand a particular nuance (which by the way is very normal since the intern does not have the type of exposure associates have had), it is worthwhile for the intern to discuss and get clarifications from the associate as early as possible. Once an associate sees that the intern is working and meeting expectations, it is but natural for him to recommend him/her to the relevant partner and assist in the call back/PPO process. Once the partner realizes that his associates have entrusted their faith in an intern, he will be more than willing to bring him/her into the fold since this for him results in progression and growth for the entire team.

     

    What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    An intern must focus on her ‘research’ skills. It is rare that an intern would ever get to draft a legal document while interning. It is the research skills and ability to point out issues in a particular proposition of law that would make an intern stand out and excel at his/her work.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    I guess I had watched too much of ‘Boston Legal’ and ‘The Practice’ during my college life to have any notion other than that of waltzing into a law firm as ‘Denny Crane’ or ‘Alan Shore’. As an intern, luckily some of these myths faded away and a blurred image of the reality was shown to me. But when I started working, I realized that as an associate, one has to shoulder much more responsibility and accountability that never existed much as an intern. Additionally, with every passing year, you are responsible for not only training and keeping a check on yourself but also on your juniors who rely on you for your guidance in every area of work.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    It basically boils down to the nature and preference of a particular individual. It is not like the specialized areas are mundane and one would end up doing only the same stuff day in and day out. However, the basic legislation for the work would be the same. General corporate law helps an associate to try his hand at different areas of law. A general corporate lawyer also helps tie in the specialized areas of law and knit them into a complete package which is then presented to the client. For instance, in any private equity transaction, inputs from the Competition law team and IPR team are taken and provided to clients to provide them with specific inputs of these areas on the relevant transaction.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    I like to take one day at a time since in the words of Keats, “In the long run, we are already dead”. I see myself continuing to do something challenging, and determined and striving to excel at whatever I am doing.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to all the law students reading this?

    In the word of Baz Luhrmann, “Sometimes you are ahead, sometimes you are behind, the race is long and in the end it is only with yourself…”. So keep calm and dream along.

     

  • Sairam Sanath Kumar, Legal Manager, Cognizant, on work experience as an in-house counsel at IT companies

    Sairam Sanath Kumar, Legal Manager, Cognizant, on work experience as an in-house counsel at IT companies

    Sairam Sanath Kumar belongs to the first batch of National University of Advanced Legal Studies, Kochi (Batch of 2007). During law school, apart from achieving excellence in other co-curricular activities he was an avid mooter also. He was a part of the winning team at the 17th Constitutional Law Moot Court competition in Kerala Law Academy in 2006. He has held numerous publications to his name.

    Soon after graduation, he did a post-graduate journalism course at the Asian College of Journalism in Chennai. He then worked in Delhi for CNN-IBN as a television journalist and then with Indian Express, where he covered the Delhi courts as a legal correspondent. Thereafter he joined Infosys as an Associate Legal Counsel and in May, 2012 he switched to Cognizant Technology Solutions as a Senior Legal Counsel. He currently works a Legal Manager there.

     

    How did you to decide to pursue law as a career?

    Frankly, I didn’t have law in mind initially. At school, I was keen on pursuing journalism. Law happened when several friends decided to sit for the entrance exam and I joined them. It was a last-minute jump. I don’t regret the decision.

     

    Tell us about your life at National University of Advanced Legal Studies (NUALS).

    I was part of the first batch of NUALS. Without much fanfare, we lit the ceremonial lamp on the first day and commenced classes. It was a small campus in the first few years. They later shifted to a sprawling, full-fledged campus in another part of Cochin. We were a bunch of 50 and quite happy that we didn’t have seniors to dictate us. We took the lead in everything – participating in and organizing moot courts, legal aid clinics, editing and publishing the law school journal, networking with eminent lawyers, arranging internships, extra-curricular, campus placements etc. It was a lot of effort and great fun. Of course, we were the proverbial ‘guinea pigs’ – the management did all their ‘experiments’ on us. Our batch and subsequent batches won several moot court competitions all over the country in the 5 years we were there. We were very buoyed by these, especially since we started off as underdogs.

    I was part of the winning team at the 17th Constitutional Law Moot Court competition in Kerala Law Academy in 2006. If I remember right, NUJS had won this moot 3 or 4 years on the trot. We ended their run in 2006. It was a huge morale-booster back then.

    I also took time off to write thesis papers. I got a few papers published in leading law journals such as All India Reporter, Criminal Law Journal, Cochin University Law Review etc. on topics affiliated to constitutional law and criminal law. I was also a student editor of NUALS Law Journal – we published the first edition in 2007 that carried long-form articles from law students, prominent lawyers and jurists.

     

    Looking back, how significant do you think your legal education was?

    Well, it was definitely significant to qualify as a lawyer! As a law student, I wasn’t decided on pursuing a career in any particular branch of law. Legal education was about toying with various options and subjects. I was, in fact, keen on legal journalism. I wanted to cover the courts and legal policy for a major national media house. I worked as a journalist for 2.5 years initially, before I took up an in-house counsel’s job.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined Infosys as an Associate Legal Counsel. What landed you in this job?

    No, I did not join Infosys after graduation. I did a post-graduate journalism course at the Asian College of Journalism in Chennai for a year, right after law. I then worked in Delhi for CNN-IBN as a television journalist and then with Indian Express, where I covered the Delhi courts as a legal correspondent. Journalism in Delhi was exciting. I covered several newsworthy cases such as the 1984 Sikh riots, NitishKatara murder, Delhi terror blasts, Uphaar theatre tragedy, status of under-trials in Tihar jail, etc. I would visit courts, interact with senior advocates, activists and petitioners; break down legalese for a layman’s understanding. I was a journalist for around 2.5 years, and then moved to Bangalore. I got back to being a lawyer for personal reasons. I got to know that the Infosys legal team was looking for hires, applied, was interviewed by the General Counsel and got the job.

     

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time for a law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to garner the maximum from the market?

    It depends on what you’re interested in pursuing. I think it’s very important to give yourself the time and space to experiment if, after graduation, you’re still undecided on what to do and how to shape your career. The first year after graduation is probably the best time to zero in on a career path. If you’re the experimenting kind and looking for a full-time job with a firm or company, you may have to jump a couple of jobs early on. I would say, those jumps are crucial, provided you stabilise later. If, however, your first job works out well (which is quite rare), nothing better.

     

    You left Infosys to join Cognizant Technology Solutions as a Senior Legal Counsel in 2012. What prompted this choice and what made this shift possible?

    Cognizant attracted me because it is one of the fastest growing top-tier IT companies. I went through four or five rounds of interview and a written test before I was offered the job. It’s been a good journey so far.

     

    You were promoted to Manager – Legal from Senior Legal Counsel, in exactly a year at Cognizant. How did you go about achieving this?

    I was managing my portfolio independently from the start by catering to client requirements and ready to manage a team. I understand that triggered the decision to promote me.

     

    What is your work profile at Cognizant like?

    I am the lead counsel for all client-specific transactions and compliance for ASEAN and Greater China across verticals. I manage a team of 4 attorneys who directly report to me, spread over Chennai, Bangalore and China. I was earlier managing a team for Cognizant’s Global Alliances that drove to closure several strategic transactions for the company.

     

    sairam-sanath-kumar-2

    As a Manager, what are your responsibilities, and what’s a normal workday at Cognizant like?

    A ‘normal’ workday may not be very normal! It could involve anything from long-drawn negotiation sessions with clients/partners/third-party vendors to short-notice conference or video calls with business teams and other internal stakeholders, advising company’s executive management on risk mitigation, deal structuring, compliance, intellectual property, data protection, employment/HR matters, updates on laws and legal policy, etc.

     

    What are the toughest challenges in a job such as yours?

    Establishing a relationship with business teams based on mutual trust is integral. That takes time, effort and regular engagement with multiple stakeholders. Business/sales teams, including the senior management, need to be convinced that you’re the go-to lawyer for their business, that you can handle client and business pressures and be an equal partner to them. It takes effort to win them over. The vice-versa is true as well. A lawyer’s advice need not always go down well with his/her internal clients. There are bound to be differences of opinion. But it’s crucial to ‘disagree agreeably’. At the end of the day, you’re facilitating business, even if that entails naysaying.

     

    What, in your opinion, are the soft skills essential for a young lawyer to build a successful career?

    Excellent inter-personal skills, impeccable command over written and spoken English (or the concerned language of medium), managerial and team-building skills, and a right balance of affability and assertiveness.

     

    What, in your opinion, constitutes the most important part of professional ethics at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    It begins with taking complete responsibility for your work. As an in-house counsel, you’re answerable to the management and internal clients for your and your team’s advice and opinion. Every word spoken or written, every email counts, and is a potential building block for others to judge your integrity. Secondly, it’s a cardinal rule to treat your colleagues and team members in a fair and just manner.

    There would be serious introspection to do for a lawyer who makes mistakes of facts and blatant blunders. The reality is, there’s no room for mistakes or errors.

     

    sairam-sanath-kumar-3

    Please tell us more about the Lexcellence award.

    (Sairam received the Lexcellence Award in October, 2013 from the Legal Center of Excellence – Cognizant for outstanding performance, and the Young In-House Lawyer of the Year Award at the 7th Annual Legal Counsel & Congress Awards held in Mumbai in March, 2014.)

    I was nominated for both these awards by the General Counsel of Legal APAC at Cognizant, G.V. Anand Bhushan. Lexcellence Award is an annual award given to select in-house counsels in Cognizant, amongst more than seventy spread across India and Asia Pacific.

    The latter was at an event organised by IDEX Legal and Lex Witness (a magazine on legal and corporate affairs), to acknowledge excellence amongst in-house counsels and lawyers in India, cutting across industries and practise areas. The jury for this comprised of some of the top names in the profession in India. IDEX short-listed me as one of the final 3 contenders. I was announced the winner at the event.

     

    What would you suggest to someone who wishes to work with a company like Cognizant?

    Frankly, there’s no formula or template. Take it as it comes, give it your best.

     

    What would you suggest for a law student to stay ahead in today’s times?

    It’s definitely worth the effort for a law student to invest in much more than academics. A law course can offer diversity in terms of subjects and activities that that no workplace easily can. I think most students nowadays understand this.

     

    What are your views on the future of Indian legal education?

    With too many ‘national law schools’ in the country, the premium traditionally placed on students who graduate from these institutes isn’t as high as it used to be. By the same logic, a huge chunk of graduates nowadays is from national law schools. Most firms and companies who recruit fresh graduates do not/cannot differentiate on the basis of alma mater anymore. Legal education has democratized itself to a significant extent, and this phenomenon is here to stay.

  • Saugata Chakravarty, General Counsel, Siemens South Asia, on experience as lawfirmite v. legal counsel

    Saugata Chakravarty, General Counsel, Siemens South Asia, on experience as lawfirmite v. legal counsel

    Saugata Chakravarty graduated from South Calcutta Law College, Calcutta University in 2001. Thereafter he went to pursue Masters from Cardiff University. He started his career as an Associate at Gagrats and co. where he worked for two years. He joined Siemens in 2007 as a Legal Manager and in February, 2013, he was promoted to the rank of General Counsel. He is currently working there as a General Counsel of South Asia cluster.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Law school experience at Calcutta and Cardiff University
    • Work experience at Gagrats
    • Induction at Siemens
    • Journey from Legal Manager to General Counsel

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Firstly, since you mention that most of your readers are law students and young lawyers I would like to say to them I do not have many grey hairs myself – at least that’s how I like to feel! I am currently General Counsel of Siemens Ltd, South Asia cluster, but how I got here is quite interesting.

    Secondly, when I was considering which career to pursue while studying at the Kendriya Vidyalaya at Bilaspur the two professions which really fascinated and attracted me was medicine and law, since I felt I could really touch people’s lives in either field – and make a difference.  I finally opted for medicine and even took the medical entrance test, but didn’t get in. But that did not discourage me as I had my Plan B ready– and turned to Law.

     

    Tell us something about your college life? What all activities did you participate in?

    I studied Law at the South Calcutta Law College. It was a five-year course. However, the teaching hours were not so usual – 6:30am to 10:30am. So you had the rest of the day free! I utilised this time to go to the local courts – esp. the High Court. Besides the courts, I also was an active participant in various college events and also inter-college cultural events. Moot courts and college fests were important events where I spent lot of time networking.

     

    How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    Extra-curricular activities are important for all students, not just law students! As I mentioned earlier I participated in many moots. I was also active in college affairs – and even became elected as General Secretary for two years. This position gave me my first experience in interface with management – since I as general secretary was representing the student body to the management of the college. This gave me my first exposure to working in a team and dealing with many diverse ideas and viewpoints.

     

    Do you believe that excellent CGPA is absolutely necessary for success?

    No, not at all. How you make the most of your scores is important. So many very successful people hardly had what could be termed excellent grades either in school or college – not only in law but other professions as well. So determination, drive and a go-getter attitude are very often the propellants for success. I would consider that a good CGPA is necessary – but not sufficient condition for success.

     

    When and how did you decide to pursue Masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavour out of academic interests?

    India was liberalising, the economy was being opened to foreign investment. In the emerging scenario I felt it was imperative to gain an in-depth understanding of global commerce and finance and when the opportunity presented itself I immediately opted to do a Masters in Commercial Law. While a Masters is not a professional requirement a person with a Masters would definitely have an edge over others, all other things being equal.

     

    You have done your LL.M. from Cardiff University. Can you please share your experience at Cardiff?

    It was a wonderful experience! The method of teaching was also quite different. Firstly, our course was taught by practising lawyers – which made a huge difference if you wanted to practice law. That was not so in India. The taught modules made you learn the subject as if you were going to apply that knowledge. So a thorough understanding of the content of the courses was very important.

     

    Looking back, how significant do you think that your legal education was? When did you happen to experience the learning curve?

    The learning curve continues – more so in a field like law. Legal education in India needs more practical emphasis.

    Many years ago, the Bar Council of India had come up with an apprentice system under a lawyer with more than a decade and half in the profession – 16 years to be exact. This unfortunately never saw the light of day, due to legal challenge mounted from various quarters and was ultimately struck down by the Supreme Court on some technical grounds.

    A couple of years ago, an All India Bar Exam was introduced for all lawyers passing out from various law schools – who had to take this exam in order to practice. I think this an excellent step in the right direction.

     

    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first two years of work as an Associate at Gagrats & Co.

    When I joined Gagrats as an associate, it was the first time I was working in a big law firm. The two years I spend there was a very rapid learning experience in a very wide variety of commercial and corporate law. I closely worked with the partner – Jehangir and Rustom Gagrat. At that time the firm was undergoing a split – in fact had already undergone a split – and when I joined there was a fair amount of uncertainty (and excitement!). I took that challenge to continue and prove my worth.

     

    After two years of work at Gagrats, you joined Siemens as a Legal Manager. What led to this shift?

    Siemens got in touch with me as there was an opening available.  I readily accepted their job invitation and joined as a manager. The reason for this shift was that I wanted to experience working in-house in a large transnational corporation and I was quite curious  to know what happens to the opinions you give in law firms – how are they dealt with by the recipient of the advice. So in a sense I was crossing over to the other side and seeing it from their perspective.

     

    You currently work as a General Counsel – South Asia Cluster there. What qualities do you think helped you to achieve this status?

    Well, I guess ability to lead and get along with and pull together people from diverse backgrounds while at the same time interacting with management, and I guess my passion for my work! The main qualities I think would be helping advance the business goals of Siemens and in protecting the Company’s reputation for integrity and leading and developing a fairly large team when I was lead lawyer of a couple of business divisions.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true?

    There is a lot of truth in that. At the same time, you could start gaining the actual learning while still at law school if you spend your vacations and spare time in the courts or in the chambers of experienced lawyers or at law firms.

     

    What is a workday like for you?

    No day is like the previous day! And in large multi-national company’s legal department work never follows a settled pattern – despite various conscious attempts to standardise the work of in-house counsel. Challenges occur each day. And unlike a law firm your duty does not stop at the point of only giving advice – but also ensuring that it is followed!

     

    What kind of legal work is there?

    We get work encompassing diverse branches of law – which is different from our core areas of advising on projects and infrastructure.  Despite that, very little work is outsourced to external firms – other than actual litigation in the courts. We have quite a sophisticated system of selecting external firms.

     

    Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of a law firm and legal department of a company?

    Yes, and as already mentioned, giving advice is one part, discussing the same and implementing it with all stake holders is altogether a different kettle of fish!

     

    Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building a reputation?

    All depends on a particular individual. People with entrepreneurial flair generally tend to strike out on their own. I find I enjoy working with challenges – both in workload and timelines. Building a reputation to gain success requires good, solid hard work and years of dedication – and many a times a stroke of luck. I don’t see any trade off – at least in the initial formative years. Since working in a firm or on your own – you are still on the lower rungs of the career ladder and what reputation you will garner will of course depend on how the initial years go.

     

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    Good domain expertise – knowing the law, solid analytical abilities, ability to communicate well and of course hard work!  A fresh graduate could look for a mentor….who could either proactively guide the young lawyer or the fresh graduate closely observes how the senior goes about with her/his work – and extract and internalise from observing. The latter is usually the case in learning the ropes since seniors rarely have the time to do individual mentoring, as they might be overseeing many other young employees or fresh recruits.

     

    How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    The balance is still being perfected! Once I have struck that balance, I will let you know.

     

    How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles?

    For law firms it is getting to be quite important. GCs are not only trusted business advisors but also business enablers. So we not only partner with Business, standing shoulder-to-shoulder, but are also business enablers – ensuring the business goals of the Company are reached by ensuring effective legal risk management utilising all the opportunities presented by law.

     

    What is your opinion on generalisation v. specialisation?

    There are good arguments for both. Of course if you specialise then you should take your specialist skills to a place where some use is made of it. Otherwise don’t bother – you can carry on fine being a generalist. You might be interested in knowing, I have set up a platform in Siemens legal department whereby people with expertise in a particular area of law can collaborate with others who can gain invaluably from such expertise and experience – expertise which they may not be aware was existing in the Legal department since most of us sit at diverse locations and do not meet very often in person. The name of this grouping is SMEG – Subject Matter Expert Group – and this is the first place to look for support in a specialised area of law.

     

    Is there anything you would like to have done differently?

    I feel I have done things differently and loved every moment of it….maybe in hindsight I could have done my Masters after I had gained a couple of years experience as a lawyer.

     

    Does Siemens Group take interns? What is the process for same?

    Yes we do. Your readers could contact our HR for the same. The job description for every opening is quite detailed – being good at your work is obviously a given. And then of course the usual other “must haves” like “soft skills”, etc. I also wish to let you know that once a person is recruited in Siemens legal department, the Company provides a myriad of opportunities for further career development. We have learning colloquiums, centres of excellence, leadership development centres, advanced management centres all aimed at grooming employees so that they realise their full potential.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Hard work focused sensibly and utilising all opportunities that come your way, no matter how slight, will always get you results and help you achieve your dreams! So please go for it!