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  • Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. Having decided early on that he wanted to be a lawyer specializing in Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity, he interned with top-tier law firms such as Trilegal, AZB & Partners and J. Sagar Associates. He received two PPOs by the end of his third year. After graduation, he worked at J. Sagar Associates, Gurgaon for almost three years before joining Khaitan & Co., Mumbai in May, 2014. In this interview he talks about:

    • The importance of CGPA, moots, publications and debates for a legal career
    • Pursuing a career in corporate law
    • Working at top law firms like J. Sagar Associates and Khaitan & Co.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood. How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I’ll answer the last question first. I’m a first generation lawyer. I do not have lawyers in the family. To be honest, law for me was just a choice I made out of high school – as with most kids out of school, we are all supposed to miraculously arrive at our future career paths, and mine happened to be law. I’m quite satisfied with my decision, though. When I connect the dots backwards, I don’t have many misgivings on my choice of career.

    I grew up in a modest background, and with both my parents being civil servants, it was always clear that I really had to make my own mark, and set my own goals. Law was one of those goals. I did not have a fall back option, and I am glad for it.

     

    Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background help in this profession?

    Yes, most certainly. Having a legacy in any field is irreplaceable. I have read so many times how people quite casually disregard the benefit of a legacy. However, I wouldn’t like to mince words answering this question. In whatever field of law you are in, whether it is corporate or litigation, at the end of the day, contacts help. Equally competent individuals would most likely execute tasks with more or less equal efficiency. Business development and building a clientele is ultimately what sets you apart. And, it is here where having a legacy can be a major facilitator. Having said so, one must not feel disheartened with the lack of a legacy, and instead think of such a void as an opportunity to develop your own legacy. There are innumerable precedents of first generation lawyers who have done well for themselves, and who continue to do so.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I ranked in the bottom 15% of my batch in my first semester – maybe because I was experimenting with the ‘law school experience’, or maybe simply on account of youthful incredulity – it doesn’t matter. This had caused a major setback to me back then as I usually fared well in high school; however, in the same breath, I would also say that this was the most beneficial experience for me. I tasted what it felt like to not finish at the top, and what followed was a lot of toil and sweat and more toil and sweat to make amends. The race to the finish line, having started late, is what shaped me up.

    By third year, I had participated in some prestigious moot court competitions, broken ceilings that I thought existed (not literally!), published a fair number of articles (including in business dailies), gotten into public speaking, and of course, continued playing football.

    Not many know this (as I never made a big deal of it, and still would not like to), but I bagged two pre-placement offers before I completed my third year at law school from two of the leading national law firms (and a call back internship with the third, which too was very likely to have culminated into an offer). None of the holders of high CGPAs had an offer by third year.

    The only reason I am sharing this on this forum is to perhaps be a motivation for those who may feel they have been side-lined on account of not having grades. My word of advice to you is: Be a rebel, but not one without a cause. Instead, have a cause to back it.

    Therefore for me, the battles I fought in University, the reality checks I faced early on in my time there shaped me up tremendously. In fact, I feel living in a residential set up away from home (in environments which can get quite demanding as well as harshly competitive) greatly equipped me for life ahead.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NLU, Jodhpur? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    Following from my response above, I eventually fared well in academics. However, due to the damage done to my GPA during first year, I didn’t finish in the top 10 percentile. At the same time, I finished high enough to be shortlisted for all campus recruitment opportunities. In the end, my CGPA never mattered.

    Would I say a ‘great’ CGPA is a necessity? – a big NO! A ‘good’ CGPA and a ‘balanced CV’ will help just as much, if not more. At least, this should hold true in case an individual is looking at being a transactional lawyer or a litigator.

    I feel the only place a ‘great’ CGPA helps is to secure a job at a UK magic circle firm or if you are keen on academics or, lastly, in securing scholarships/ funding for an LL.M programme. If you are interested in any of these, you should definitely have an eye out for your grades.

    At work, and in daily life, what matters is grit, confidence, hard work, more hard work, real time application of legal principles and the ability to be a problem solver. At many instances you will be faced with situations where you will need to back yourself consciously. Grades are forgotten once you start work just as high school grades are forgotten once you enter college.

     

    Conferences, debates and Moot Court Competitions – do you think participating in these extracurricular activities helps a student in the long run?

    Yes. I feel any form of self-expression is greatly rewarding. Having participated in a variety of conferences, moots and debates, I can dare say the experiences gained greatly helped me develop my legal skills ‘qualitatively’.

    Mooting taught me research and patience; parliamentary debating taught me how not to rely on rote learning, and instead learn the art of expanding on bullets; conferences helped me express myself in forums where I spoke in front of people much more experienced than me in the fields I chose to research.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published? Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Writing for me started on account of being able to have a stronger CV, but as I went along, it just became a mode of self-expression for me, and I write just for the pleasure of such self-expression.

    I feel each one us have our own ways of self-expression, and I unfortunately do not profess to have ‘aced’ the art of paper writing, and I will, therefore, not be able to provide a one-size-fits-all tool-kit. However, what I could set out, are broad parameters that young authors should keep in mind when writing. Again, these too would vary on what forum one is addressing and your ultimate readers.

    Focus points are:

    • Have your aim straight. Know the point you want to make (similar to a moral to the story)
    • Clear expression
    • Lead your reader to your aim (i.e., to the moral of the story)
    • Do not overstress upon or overdo anything
    • Sophistication over sophistry; preciseness over verbosity

     

    Tell us how paper publishing and other co-curricular activities helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career.

    I feel legal writing does play a positive influence in one’s legal career. Similarly, participation in other academic as well as non-academic co-curricular activities also has the effect of shaping your profile.

    At the end of the day, when you get out of law school, people will not recall what grades you have; what they will recall is your impact value. Solid mooting experience helps develop this facet. Similarly, legal writing greatly enables and facilitates drafting work.

     

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    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    I focused very early on, on pursuing corporate/ M&A internships. I was lucky to have secured some good internships to start with. I remember that I did not take a single vacation during law school and worked back to back to complete three internships each year. I feel my best internships were at AZB & Partners, J. Sagar Associates and Trilegal. I received a good amount of mentoring and challenging assignments. I was also given a great deal of responsibility, just what I needed as I was working my way up to a good CGPA after the initial hit.

    I feel all my internships had very many remarkable experiences, right from getting a ‘outstanding’ rating from Mr. Gopal Subramaniam during my internship at his office in my 2nd year of University to being able to work on PE/ VC term sheets and research on very contemporary corporate law issues during my internships at Trilegal and JSA.

    I feel I was lucky to have met some really good mentors who saw talent in me, and nurtured it. ‘That’ nurturing did for me, what law school could not – feed my thirst for knowledge and the practice of transactional law.

     

    After graduating from NLU, Jodhpur you had worked at J. Sagar Associates for almost 3 years and then joined Khaitan & Co in May of last year. Please tell us a little about your work profile at these firms and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    Having set myself the goal of being a transactional lawyer, I joined the M&A/ PE team at JSA, Gurgaon. Given that I had started working in this area of corporate law pretty early on in my internships (as early as 2nd year of law school), I had a good hold on the core essentials. Also, given that I had received a PPO from JSA pretty early in law school, the gestation period for me was practically non-existent as I had done rigorous internships with the firm before joining it, where I worked more like an associate than an intern. This allowed me to get right into the thick of things very early on in my legal career. My first legal due diligence for a PE deal came to me in my 2nd week, and transaction documentation started by the end of the first month. I will always be grateful to the firm and my seniors for believing in me so early on and giving me the necessary impetus required in order to develop a quick and steep learning curve – one that I have greatly benefitted from.

    I made a shift to Khaitan & Co’s Mumbai office in May of 2014 and I have greatly enjoyed being part of this set-up. The firm is highly institutionalised and is run on a merit-based system where lineage and family is surmounted by meritocracy and integrity. Joining as a lateral, I have felt very welcomed by the establishment and my colleagues.

    My responsibilities at Khaitan & Co primarily involve advising private equity/ venture capital investors and private M&A players on their investments/ acquisitions, general regulatory advice around structuring of transactions, conducting and leading diligences, negotiating, vetting and preparing transaction documents, and finally, assisting in closing of transactions. We also advise some promoters and target companies during sell-side mandates where we need to change hats during negotiations. My responsibilities at JSA were broadly similar to those described above.

     

    Your main practice area covers Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity investments. What prompted you to choose these practice areas? Please share with our readers.

    I was always a bit of an outlier in University, insofar as I started on corporate/ M&A internship roles very early on while most of my batch mates were still being experimental (trying different kinds of internships). Therefore, by the end of 2nd year, I had pretty much decided that I wanted to be a transactional lawyer driving M&A and PE deals. Each of my internships from 2nd year until 5th year were ‘only’ with M&A teams of the various firms I interned with, and I made that choice at the time of applying to these firms. On account of this exposure (quite self-induced, in my case), M&A/ PE was the only natural choice for me.

    I don’t know if the above answer will help your readers, but I suppose what I could broadly state is that you should try and direct your internships. Not everyone is born to do corporate law. There are so many options in law firms – right from competition, tax, infrastructure, banking to intellectual property. Similarly, nowadays, the trend seems to be changing finally where a lot of law graduates from top law schools are opting for litigation over law firms.

    I will highly recommend law students to not follow the herd, and in fact, chose the branch of law that is of most interest. M&A/ PE interested me the most – it really was, and still is, that simple.

     

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    Corporate Law sometimes comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    To be honest, I did not have much of a work-life balance in my first two years. I missed all important events – birthdays, anniversaries, the works, and all along I never seemed to mind. I really was a work horse (and do not regret it).

    But over time, I suppose one naturally realises how to prioritise things, and it is something that frankly everyone in the field is constantly trying to learn every day.

    To be honest here, in my view work-life balance is a major misnomer. And the reason I say this is simple. If you really think about it, 80% of our awake time is spent at work, so it is essential you enjoy your work. If you enjoy 80% of your awake time, you automatically enjoy 80% of your ‘life’ time. The balance 20% is what you really need to really think about, in my view, and make the most of!

    With so much information available online nowadays about how demanding different career lifestyles are, I am sure people are well familiarised with a lawyer’s work-life. And to this extent, all I would say is you just need to brace yourself for the long haul if corporate law is your chosen career path.

    I am not a very good example of someone who manages work and personal life too well, so unfortunately I will not be able to answer your last question. However, I would say that I do try and balance work with pleasure every now and then (just as most others also try and do), as it is vital to take a break and refresh yourself whenever you can.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    After reading my responses above, I hope I can, to whatever extent possible, change this impression! Law firms recruit based on merit, and while a high CGPA is an easy way to assess merit, in practice, law firms do not see that in isolation. I feel having a good internship experience coupled with a well-rounded profile (which includes extra-curricular initiatives as described above) matters far more than just purely a high CGPA driven CV.

    Once you are in the grind (i.e., the workspace), it does not matter what your grades were. What matters is how well you perform, how well you execute deliverables, and how well you can display your skill set. To this end, a person with a well-rounded profile has far greater chances at excelling than someone who only has high grades to show on a CV – purely because the former kind has tested him or herself against far greater experiences and challenges, and is thus more ‘anti-fragile’ (to borrow from Nassim Nicholas Taleb).

    Notwithstanding any of what I have said, what matters most is how technically sound a to-be lawyer is – that is the single most important aspect that recruiters consider, and is irreplaceable as a skill set.

     

  • Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat specializes in Mergers and Acquisitions at Allen & Overy. He graduated from National Law University Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law as well as the Mathur Amar Laxmi and Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medals for his academic performance. He was also felicitated by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics.

    He successfully applied to the Vacation Placement programme at both Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. While working as a Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, London, he underwent a six month secondment to Dubai, where he still works. In this interview he talks about:

    • Balancing academics and extra-curricular activities in law school
    • Building a career in corporate law
    • Vacation Placement, Training Contract and Secondment at Allen & Overy

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I never know how to answer this one! I’ll play it safe – I am originally from Jaipur; I did my LL.B from NLU, Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law; I presently work with Allen & Overy LLP.

    I was always fascinated by law as a subject because both my parents hold law degrees (though neither of them pursued a career in law), but I decided quite late to explore this academic interest as a career option. If I had to pin it down to something, I would say my interest in law arose because I have always perceived it to be an instrument of social change. Unlike the natural sciences, law is a subject by the people for the people and this aspect of ‘social contract’ always fascinated me. The other reason is that law is a subject that emphasises a lot on soft skills. To be a good lawyer, you need to possess much more than pure technical skills; this is something that resonated a lot with my views on education and what I wanted for myself professionally.

     

    Tell us a little about your law school days at National Law University, Jodhpur? How would you compare NLUJ with other law schools?

    I don’t think I am in a position to objectively compare NLUJ with any other university, but in absolute terms, I look back on my five years at university as the best years of my life (so far). Like any other opportunity in life, university experience is only as good or bad as you make it to be. Are there universities with a better brand name than NLUJ out there? Of course. Does that really make a difference in your quality of education/life and options in the long run? I don’t think so.

    Learning from your peers is an underrated concept in our education system. I personally was thankful for the opportunity to meet so many brilliant people, each impressive in his or her own unique way, be it in academics, mooting, debating or creative pursuits. I think I learnt much more outside the classroom than inside. There are always things one could do differently but, all in all, I had a fulfilling experience.

     

    Upon graduation you received the Mathur Amar Laxmi Gold Medal and the Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medal for your CGPA. Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    I believe one’s academic experience is largely dependent on personal targets and what one wants out of the university experience. Although I was always keen to learn more and gain as much knowledge as possible, I was never in constant pursuit of knowledge; in my view that is insatiable. Time is a precious commodity and everything comes at a cost. I made a very conscious decision to prioritise and divide my time among the various activities I was involved in. I approached knowledge as a means to an end and not an end in itself.

    The truth is that any profession, law included, is result oriented. There are different ways of achieving it as long as you are focussed on the result. I was quite particular about ensuring that my concepts were as clear as possible – to me that matters the most. Academics were very important and I ensured that I was always well-prepared before the exams. But beyond that, I was never one to reserve time every day for studying; I felt there were lots of other things that required my attention and time on a daily basis.

    In my opinion, the trick is in finding a balance, between academics and extra-curriculars, between dedication and efficiency. It is a very personal decision. For me, it was much more important to grow holistically and become a better-rounded person than focus solely on academics and I have never regretted that.

     

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    You were recognised by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics. Please tell us about this felicitation.

    I received a letter from the Government of India informing me that I had been selected for the recognition and that I was invited to attend the Republic Day parade in New Delhi from the Prime Minister’s box as a guest of the Prime Minister. They had selected students from across the country. I understand this was based on my academic performance at school and during the first year of university. I was really grateful for the recognition.

     

    You were also a member of the Editorial Committee. How significant do you think that the experience was?

    I had been an editor of my school’s magazine and wanted to continue such involvement during university. I was a member of the Editorial Committee during the first year. The experience was quite enriching for various reasons, not least of which was the opportunity to learn how to work with different people. First year is a time when everyone is still in the process of discovering themselves, their interests, their ambitions and what activities they would like to pursue in the future. I eventually realized that I was more passionate about and could make a greater difference as a member of the Academic Support and Literary Committee, which I was involved with for the four years that followed.

     

    You’ve held multiple positions of responsibility throughout your college life. We would like to know your opinion on how significant they were. Please tell us about your experience and how you managed time effectively?

    For me, the significance of these responsibilities cannot be overstated. To a large extent, my extra-curricular pursuits defined my university experience. I genuinely enjoyed getting involved with as many things as possible. Leadership opportunities are an excellent way for one to not just improve the lives of others around them but also, more importantly, oneself as a community member.

    I had exposure to a variety of leadership roles, most notable ones being the Student Chief Counsel (President of the student body), Convenor of the Academic Support and Literary Committee and the Co-President of the University’s first literary-cultural festival. These experiences taught me invaluable lessons in handling various situations and people, something I would have never otherwise learnt to quite the same extent.

    Time management is always an issue but then again university life is all about time management. I believe if you are passionate about something, you make the time for it. It is important to be realistic though; you can only do so much. These activities taught me the skill of time management, something that (as we all know) comes in handy when one starts working.

     

    How important do you think extra-curricular activities are to a law student? Please tell us about the way you approached extra-curricular activities in college.

    It is very important for one to pursue his/her interests throughout university life and, as much as possible, afterwards. It is our extra-curricular endeavours which add personality to our mundane profiles. Even on a practical level, who would you rather work with – Candidate A, who has a GPA of 9.5/10, has written several papers on constitutional law and did an internship with the largest firm in India; or Candidate B, who has a GPA of 8.5/10 but was a member of the environmental club, played the guitar, participated in moot courts and represented his university at a theatre festival? I appreciate that there may be people who pick Candidate A, but I personally would rather work with Candidate B.

    I always advise against the exercise of ‘CV Building’ and advocate ‘Personality Building’. It is much more important to do what you want than what you think others would like to see in your CV. Don’t aim to be the person whom all seniors at big law firms would want to hire, be the person with whom all juniors at a firm (big or small) would want to work.

    I did what interested me but never for my CV. Not focussing on the things that were not right for me gave me the time to focus on the right ones. There were times when balancing was tough but because I was truly passionate about what I was doing, it was easy to pull through.

     

    How relevant do you think internships are for law students? Did you have any such experience during your internships which inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?

    Internships are quite important to get a sense of what work is like and discover one’s interests. Internships also serve the function of putting you on the firm’s radar. Sensibly planned internships can no doubt help in recruitment. I would, however, advise against relying solely or too much on an internship to determine a firm’s environment or the kind of work you would be doing.

    I started interning with law firms mostly after I had decided to pursue Business Law as my Honours. I wanted to see the kind of work and options available. My internship experiences validated my choice (of Business Law) to some extent and gave me an opportunity to understand what I was getting myself into.

    There is an increasing practice nowadays of doing premature internships or too many internships. I can’t say whether it is right or wrong, but I feel that students need to take a step back and evaluate what they want. Interning with a corporate law firm in your first or second year may not be as beneficial as you want it to be and you lose out on an opportunity to explore different career options.

     

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    You’ve interned in quite a few top-tier law firms. How did you plan your internships?

    My intention was to experience as many different setups as possible to help me decide what I ultimately wanted to do. I adopted a tiered approach. I started with firms where the teams were smaller and the work was more generic. With time, I started applying for the larger firms where I was exposed to niche areas and ‘top-tier’ work environments. This gradual increase in the scale of firms helped me get a clearer picture across the spectrum by the time I graduated.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with. What made you choose this particular avenue?

    During my Training Contract with Allen & Overy, I did six-month seats in international capital markets, banking and finance, and corporate. I found corporate work to be the most interesting and diverse and decided to qualify (a term used in UK firms for when you join a department permanently after your TC) to the corporate team in Dubai.

    I specialise in Mergers and Acquisitions. I do a lot of private M&A, some public M&A (equity capital markets), venture capital and private equity work; these are all related. The good thing about corporate is that no two deals are identical and the work can be quite varied, that keeps the monotony at bay! On a typical deal, I find myself negotiating and drafting transaction documents (like share purchase agreements and shareholders’ agreements) and handling transaction logistics. A not-so-fun task, though a very important one, for a junior is conducting (the much dreaded) due diligence.

     

    How did you develop your interest and knowledge base in corporate law?

    I have answered about my interest above. As for knowledge, even though India and UK have largely similar legal systems, there were a few English-law specific points of corporate law that I picked-up as I went along. For any transactional lawyer, the main learning starts only once you start working. It is not possible for anyone to read through and retain the entire Companies Law. But it’s surprising how much you pick-up in small batches by working on deals and transaction documents.

     

    What is an average working day like for you? Please tell us about the same.

    As everyone knows, in a law firm, the actual working hours are quite different from the official hours. What I do depends on the deal flow at the time. I wouldn’t want to bore people with details of corporate work but in short, there are good days and not so good days (let’s avoid the negativity of ‘bad’). I would say a good day is when you do more drafting and less administrative tasks (and no DD!). An OK day is a mixture of drafting and administrative tasks like managing signing or completion processes. A not so good day is when you are ploughing through reams of DD documents or are being pulled in several directions at the same time. The last set is not a daily affair but one needs to be prepared for it.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle I faced was the sudden realisation that working in a law firm required me to know and do things which a law degree may not have necessarily prepared me for. The academic study of law can be quite far removed from its practice, especially if you are working as a transactional lawyer. Your job requires you to have as much commercial aptitude, if not more, as legal knowledge. It took me a while to become reasonably confident about my work and grasp how a deal runs; it is a constant learning process.

    On a less obvious note, I started my career in London so another hurdle was minor cultural practices which percolate into our professional mannerisms. In my experience, we tend to swing in extremes; we are either quite formal (and deferential) or can come across as being slightly overconfident. I noticed I used to err on the side of the former. Finding the right balance is important.

     

    Tell us a little about your experience as a Vacation Placement Student at Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. How did you secure this opportunity?

    International firms have very formal and transparent application procedures. You do not need to grapple around for internship opportunities. I applied to both HSF and A&O through their online annual vacation scheme applications and was fortunate enough to make it. There was an initial screening followed by interviews and case studies for both these firms. For people interested in foreign firms, I would strongly recommend keeping a timetable of when the applications are due – ideally in your third year so that you can apply in your fourth.

    Both the experiences were fantastic. I was instantly sold on the work environment and culture at both the firms. The experiences were similar in many ways but different in others. The similarity was evident in terms of warm personalities, professional environments and a clear respect for work-life balance. The differences were more subtle due to the difference in the scale of the two firms (magic-circle versus silver-circle). I was also quite impressed to see the emphasis placed on soft skills and giving the right training. I decided that I wanted such training for the formative stages of my career.

     

    While working as Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, you underwent a six month secondment to Dubai. A lot of our readers would like to know how the process of secondment works. Please share a few words about your experience.

    A ‘secondment’ is like a temporary six-month stint you do in another office or with a client. It is common practice at UK firms to apply for a secondment in your last seat. I was extremely keen to try out Dubai as a market.

    The experience was wonderful (as you can probably deduce from the fact that I am still here). The office is much smaller so everyone knew everyone, the corporate team was much more closely-knit, there was more scope for direct responsibility at a junior level and, above all, it was not raining/freezing/gloomy 365 days a year. What also helped was the fact that A&O has one of the best M&A practices in the region so the work was diverse and (more often than not) interesting.

     

    What do you think are the essential soft skills that a law student aspiring to make a career in corporate law should possess?

    Corporate law or otherwise, what comes in handy the most is a confident demeanour. How you present yourself has a significant impact on how people perceive you and your work. This extends to the way you talk (presenting your thoughts in an articulate and coherent manner), the way you deal with people and the way you handle stressful situations. In my experience, people would rather give work to someone who, even if not outstanding, is confident and can stay calm when faced with the unforeseen than someone who is brilliant but may drop the ball or lose his/her composure. If I may add, people often mistake confidence for the ability to convince everyone even when you are unsure of yourself. That’s great but it will only take you so far. What is more important is having the confidence to own up to your limitations; this inspires others’ trust in you and ensures success in the longer run.

    In terms of career-specific soft skills, transactional lawyers should always strive to develop matter-management skills. Deals can get stressful and at such times, people who manage to stay organised do better. So if anyone makes fun of you for being too organised (like colour-coding your notes, etc.), don’t worry, you will do well in corporate law!

     

    What does the process of recruitment and interviewing include? Does it differ, depending on the position that the candidate has applied for, or the country which the office is situated in?

    I was selected through the vacation placement route. After an initial screening of applicants, they called a few of us for interview. The interview (in my time) was split into two components, an HR interview and a case study. During the vacation scheme, I went through a similar process in London where I was assessed on my time there and was also asked to undertake a case study/research task and had a final partner interview.

    While I am not in a position to comment on the official policy, I think the process may differ slightly depending on which office you are applying to and the position applied for. The above definitely won’t apply for lateral hires. While all offices have a fairly formal process, the head office (London) has a slightly different format because of the requirement of a Training Contract in the UK.

     

    Once hired, is there an induction or training period for the associates? If yes, what does it consist of?

    If hired in London after graduation, you have to complete a Training Contract for two years. The two year tenure is divided into four six-month seats wherein you get a chance to experience different departments and decide where you want to ‘qualify’. Towards the end of the Training Contract, depending on your interest area and that department’s inclination, you may be offered a position as an associate. Once you become an associate, there is no training or induction involved.

    Overseas qualified lawyers (such as from India) have to clear an exam called the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme in order to be registered as a Solicitor in England and Wales.

     

    What does an average day in the life of an Associate at Allen & Overy look like? What does the work consist of? Does the firm encourage lawyers to maintain a work-life balance?

    I have already described a typical day for a corporate associate above. In terms of work-life balance, that is a tough question. Being very honest, you will find mixed opinions on this topic. In my experience, the firm is definitely quite open to and encourages employees to maintain a work-life balance, but it also depends on your team and department. There are of course busy times when everyone has to put in the hours (especially in a magic-circle firm). I will, however, say that most departments don’t have the culture of face time.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Make the most of university days; that is a precious period you will not get back. At the cost of repeating myself, I would advise against doing anything for the sake of building your CV. If you truly want to differentiate yourself from others, do what inspires and interests you, be it writing papers or dancing. Try to become a better version of yourself, and in the process I am sure you will end up becoming a better lawyer. It is easy to let your vision get jaded while at university; in the long run, things that you thought really matter actually may not.

    Lastly, don’t shy away from letting your hair down. You have a lifetime of hard work ahead of you anyway. And “always remember where you come from and where you want to go”..

  • Shabnam Khan, Head – Trademark, Lall Lahiri and Salhotra, on a career in Intellectual Property Rights

    Shabnam Khan, Head – Trademark, Lall Lahiri and Salhotra, on a career in Intellectual Property Rights

    Shabnam Khan graduated in English Hons. before deciding to pursue law at Delhi University. She graduated in law from Delhi University in 2003. Her journey as an IPR professional started when she joined Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. as an Associate. Thereafter, she joined Lall Lahiri and Salhotra as a Senior Associate in 2007. She was subsequently promoted to Head – Trademark Applications in 2013. In this interview she talks about:

    • Specializing in IPR Laws
    • Working at one of the foremost IPR Firms
    • Being Head – Trademark Applications at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it planned?

    I had always been captivated by the legal fraternity and the zeal with which they pursue the path of providing justice for their clients. Honestly, the biggest push came after I saw few movies such as “A Few Good Men”, “The Accused” and “A Civil Action” which brought me to realize that this profession had the power to change people’s lives. With that thought during my last year of English Hons. I decided that if there was a career which I wanted to pursue it had to be in the legal domain and thereafter once I started with my course work there was no looking back. The entire subject was and is still captivating.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the Delhi University? How were you at academics?

    The entire course was so gripping that it was difficult to miss a single day at college. The biggest positive of the Delhi Law University is the excellent professors and their teaching methodology. The sessions were interactive, lively and always buzzing with arguments and counter arguments on various topics. I was also elected as the student counsellor during my time at the college. I would rate myself as a hard working student who participated in various college activities while securing very good grades in a few semesters.

     


    You have specialized in IP law. What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IP Law? What does it take to be a good IP lawyer?

    The journey to being a IP professional started when I joined Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. where I was required to work with legal attorneys who handled various activities related to IP matters. I received tremendous guidance from attorneys from across the globe, especially those who were involved with USPTO (US Trademark and Patents Office). I was thereafter trained in patent writing and filing matters. This is when I developed an irrevocable interest in the subject. The expertise in the subject comes with the right guidance, practise and continuous dealing with matters related to the subject. To be a good IP lawyer requires one to have broad understanding of various industries, business nuances so that you can suggest creative and out of the box solutions to the clients for their legal matters.

     

    You started your career at Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there? What kind of challenges did you face during this job?

    I started as an Associate handling the legal part of the patent filings for the IP department of Evalueserve. That was my first step in the world of IP. I got a lot of guidance from my seniors, went through patent drafting training and learnt quite a lot about what patents are all about and how any invention is required to be protected and secured in the best possible manner. Challenges were numerous, IP was new, and the domain was technical which required me to have conversations in different time zones with IP Attorneys in the US and across the globe. The job entailed that I was always abreast with the latest happenings and was always a step ahead of the deadlines as there was no room for errors. I developed various skills to manage things and made sure nothing falls through the cracks.

     


    Thereafter, you joined Lall Lahiri and Salhotra as a Senior Associate in 2007 and became Head – Trademark Applications in 2013. For a law student it’s very difficult to think about becoming a Head in just six years of joining work. What would you say helped you succeed?

    Joining Lall Lahiri and Salhotra came after a stint of over three years of dealing with Patents. Since I did not have a technical background, I found myself being limited to looking at the legal part of Patents which at that point in time did not have considerable opportunities. As I was interested in Intellectual Property, I wanted to look into other aspects of IP as well. The trademarks division of LLS gave me the much needed exposure and opportunities to grow. The seniors and partners were very educative and supportive towards me since trademarks was an uncharted territory. I learnt, made a few mistakes, but always pushed constantly by learning and guidance provided by my seniors. The process of learning and growing never ceases at LLS, therefore it was after years of working there that I was bestowed upon with the responsibility of heading the department. The openness to accept challenges, hard work and eagerness to learn helped me join the ranks of being the Head of the department.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to be appreciated? What distinguishes an associate from a partner when it comes to work?

    A young associate should be all about learning and gaining knowledge of their domains. Reading and keeping yourself abreast of any developments happening in the field are a must. Hence, it is a must for the associate to focus on his professional path of enrichment as these initial years will differentiate him from others in the future. An associate, in the initial years of their induction should always have an attitude of being a go-getter, ready to accept challenges and should be able to think out of the box. Every matter will enrich the associate with greater depth of knowledge and equip him in handling various matters in the future.

     

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    What does a Head at a Law Firm like Lall Lahiri and Salhotra do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    The work of a Head of department entails a large number of activities and cannot be categorized into specific key responsibility areas. However, some of the key tasks include – speaking with clients on active and fresh mandates, understanding their legal problems and suggesting actionable solutions, managing deadlines, resource & project planning amongst various other tasks.

    A typical day starts with reading the emails received from the clients, prioritizing what needs to be done, what needs to go out to the clients on that day and what needs to be started to be able to meet the future deadlines. Advising clients, providing them with your opinions both from a legal and a commercial perspective, recommending the best ways forward and assisting them in achieving the same are the highlights of a typical day.

     

    How is the work culture at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow?

    Work culture at LLS is very cohesive. It has great learning environment for everyone, be it an associate or a senior person. There are no limits to work and you can grow as much as you want, of course with the right abilities and attitude. The firm promotes in people thinking out of the box, finding solutions and hence in the process, mistakes are expected from juniors. However, it is also expected that with the right guidance from the seniors he/she is able to amend and learn from the same.

     

    What are the other areas of study which you think that a law student wanting to excel as a professional in the field of IP should be proficient in?

    In case you want to excel in IP, certain other related fields of law also come into the picture. Associated areas of law include corporate law, criminal law and law related to other aspects of IP such as copyrights and Patents. An expertise is not desired, but working knowledge of these fields will assist and help you rise above the rest.

     

    What changes has being the Head – Trademark Applications brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is an excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Work never stops, the interesting bits of queries received from the clients keeps you going and exploring more. Work can and never should be treated as a burden but as a challenge, the more you have, greater the chances that you will become a better and refined professional. As no two assignments are the same, it helps a person in exploring uncharted territories and subject matters resulting in understanding the applicability of law in greater detail.

     

    The trend now is to gather various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario the same while you were pursuing law? How are internships helpful for a law student?

    While I was pursuing law, the concept of gathering internships was in the nascent stage. At the most, students would get attached to someone they know or their family knew or start as assisting lawyers in various courts. While ensuring you intern with good and varied law firms is a necessity of the current time, however, an intern should be thoughtful of not overdoing the same. It is advisable to spend time in a few law firms than a large number of law firms as it would leave the intern confused and not being able to understand any subject in detail. The same is crucial in making future career decisions.

     

    What are the qualities which Lall Lahiri and Salhotra look for in one and his/her CV?

    The firm hires interns, however, the selection process is stringent and thus only a few make it through the selection process. It is important for the intern to exhibit qualities such as – knowledge of current happenings in the IP world, understanding on key/ famous IP litigations, attitude, openness to learn and the desire to go extra mile, proficiency in spoken and written English, etc.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    As I said earlier, it is about your attitude and willingness to learn. A lot depends on how fast you pick up things, and deliver results in a limited time.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Have the right attitude and never think any work is small, give your 100% to whatever you do. This will take you high on the ladder where all you can see is success.

  • Hrishikesh Datar, Founder CEO, Vakilsearch.com, on entrepreneurship and starting up

    Hrishikesh Datar, Founder CEO, Vakilsearch.com, on entrepreneurship and starting up

    Hrishikesh Datar is a graduate of the 2010 batch of National Law School of India University, Bangalore. He is an entrepreneur and the Founder CEO of Vakilsearch.com, the leading online legal services facilitator in India. Vakilsearch.com provides online legal services 24/7 and gets about 10,000 clients a year.

    In this interview, Hrishikesh talks about:

    • Being an entrepreneur
    • Starting Vakilsearch.com and its progress so far
    • Internships at Vakilsearch.com

     

    Almost all our readers know you and your endeavour Vakilsearch. What else would you want us to know about you as an introduction?

    I’m a graduate of the 2010 batch of the National Law School, Bangalore. I opted out of the recruitment process for law firms and spent a year playing with ideas before starting Vakilsearch in 2011.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Yes, absolutely. My father is a reputed lawyer in the Madras High Court and Supreme Court. My great-grand father was a lawyer in Pune and some of my grand-uncles were lawyers and judges in different courts in Maharashtra.

    I loved debating and I found grey a far more interesting colour than black or white. So the precise sciences were never really my cup of tea. I found the opportunity to be creative and try different approaches interesting about a career in the law.

     

     

    Kindly acquaint us with your college life. What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    I was a keen debater and mooter. In my fourth year, I started visiting  IIM, Bangalore where my love affair with entrepreneurship began. I started a T-Shirt business in college which convinced me that entrepreneurship was going to be my life.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? How were you at academics?

    I interned at the law offices of P.S. Raman, then the Advocate General of Tamil Nadu. I had a memorable stint with Arun Jaitley, who was then a full time practising advocate. I also worked with a criminal lawyer in New Delhi, a matrimonial lawyer in Chennai as well as on research and book writing assignments.

    I did reasonably well throughout. To start with, yes, there was a pressure and a drive to succeed academically. But once you get used to the ‘system’, things become easier.

     

    You are an Entrepreneur and the Founder CEO of Vakilsearch.com, the leading online legal services facilitator in India.  What motivated you to start Vakilsearch.com?

    I just feel that the opportunity in India is so immense that we need a hundred companies like us to meet the needs of a billion people.

    And I was deeply motivated by the sheer amount of pain and suffering people face because of not having reliable, affordable and friendly professional support. I saw this in abundance when I worked with different lawyers and firms across India.

    This problem is not limited to the core legal space, it includes CAs and Company Secretaries as well.

     

    With so much of competition existing in the online legal service field, what makes Vakilsearch different from its peers?

    I would say relentless focus on customer satisfaction, a wide range of offerings and a technology focus.

     

    Did you visit entrepreneur meetings during the formative years of Vakilsearch? How would you compare the Indian start-up scenario with the rest of the world?

    The Indian scenario is in its early years, even now. And we have a long way to go. Yes, I did visit a lot of meetings at the IIM Bangalore and they were very inspirational.

     

    You are a businessman and also a lawyer now. Do you feel that doing a business related course like MBA would have been better after studying law?

    No, I don’t think an MBA would have helped. Business is about life and people, and managing both. You can’t learn this in a college. You have to learn it by doing. But yes, spending time with people who have succeeded in the business world, and learning from them is important. You can leapfrog some steps and avoid many mistakes.

     

    Please tell us more about Vakilsearch.com

    Vakilsearch.com, India’s fastest growing professional services platform on the Internet with offices in Chennai, Hyderabad and Bangalore.
    Our goal is to disrupt the delivery of legal, accounting and compliance services for every individual and every enterprise in India by harnessing cutting edge technological tools – and in the process, introduce transparency, efficiency and reliability. You’ll agree with me that these are huge pain points in India today.

    We get about 10,000 clients a year right now, and they are primarily small businesses and individuals looking for reliable professional support.

    We help them with a wide range of things, ranging from incorporating their companies to getting their trademarks, copyrights and patents, preparing legal documentation and contracts, offering them advice and support and also tax related work. We are very comprehensive.

     

    You are also in charge of building Vakilsearch.com’s lawyer network, brand building and marketing and alliances. How do you manage all these by yourself?

    We have a dedicated team for that now, so I have plenty of help. I just act as a catalyst, ensuring that problems are smoothened out and that difficulties are handled. That sums up my role today.

     

    How are you financing the business? How do you plan to finance future expansion?

    We raised finance through internal sources before raising a round of Series A funding with Kalaari Capital this year.

     

    Who all are associated with Vakilsearch?

    We’ve been funded by Kalaari Capital in a Series A round. We have a great team of mentors and advisors, including Shri Madhava Menon who consented to be an external mentor.

     

    Are you planning to hire? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    We’re looking for the most aggressive, tenacious and determined minds to join our team. If you think you have it in you, write to us and we’ll take it forward.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years down the line?

    We will be a billion dollar business serving more than a million clients each year.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who want to be entrepreneurs?

    Be willing to be ‘unsure’ about what lies ahead. Try different things and keep on looking for what moves you. And to quote Steve Jobs, “never settle”.

     

  • Sannoy Das, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on LL.M from Harvard and career experience in independent litigation

    Sannoy Das, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on LL.M from Harvard and career experience in independent litigation

    Sannoy Das graduated from NLU Jodhpur in 2011 with a B.Sc.LL.B (Hons.) in Business Laws. His achievements during law school include winning the North India Rounds of the Phillip C. Jessup Memorial International Moot Court Competition in 2010. He was also a student volunteer at IDIA. After graduation, he was placed at Majumdar & Co., Mumbai, where he worked for a short period before switching to practising as an Advocate at Calcutta High Court. After three years of practice, he successfully applied to Harvard Law School, where he is currently a student. In this interview he talks about:

    • Mooting experience at Jessup
    • Shifting from a law firm job to litigation
    • Law school experience at Harvard Law School

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. How did you decide to take up law?

    At different times, I’ve called Mysore and Kolkata home; for a tiny bit, even Delhi. I started going to school in Mysore, and finished most of it in Kolkata, at M.P. Birla. As for law, it might have been accidental, but it’s been a while ago, so I’m a little foggy. A good friend of mine was preparing to take the exams (many back then), and I went along with her. If I hadn’t studied law, I’d have probably taken up political science.

     

    You graduated from NLU Jodhpur in 2011 with a B.Sc.LL.B(Hons) in Business Laws. How was your law school experience?

    It’s impossible to have a coherent strain of thought running through five years of law school. I’m sure I did a lot of things wrong, but I’m sure I left more happy than sad. I wish I had digested a few more books at the library, but one is always wiser in hindsight. Of course, as far as lessons in life go, five years at a residential law school are about as good as you will get. I also met my wife at law school. And they gave me the VC’s gold medal to go with it! So pretty good overall!

     

    You had Honours in Business Laws. Tell us about the Honours program at NLU-J. What other co- curricular and extra-curricular activities were you involved in, in law school?

    I think the Honours programs at NLU are pretty well designed. I think the idea of concentrations in different areas of law is a good one, and to say the least, the courses at NLU-J are well conceived. I could crib that at times, the courses weren’t well facilitated, but that seems to be a common complaint across our law schools. I think it’s also somewhat unfortunate that the overwhelming majority chose the business law concentration. I’m certainly guilty of having followed a crowd in that. Again, hindsight! I think for the Honours programs to make a good impact on a student, foundational courses have to be well-taught, and well imbibed. I think there’s a chance that at times, we slip on that count.

    As for other activities, I think I spent much more time on those than I’d consider prudent. Moot courts took up a lot of time. Even now, I don’t think I have had enough of them. I spent a few years on the moot court committee, finally as its joint convenor. I also took to debating (the parliamentary style) in college. Also, I played some badminton.

     

    You and your team won the North India Rounds of the Philip C. Jessup Memorial International Moot Court Competition in 2010. What are the important skills and knowledge one must possess in order to be a good mooter?

    Winning the North Rounds felt like a big deal. It was. We had to get over a very formidable NUJS team which had my good friend Deepak on it. We lost at the octa-final stage at the world rounds to Columbia. Till date, I’m sore about it. I think the months that I indulged in Jessup were the best months I spent at the University and I cannot stop gushing about it. Only recently, my team mate Manu Sanan said that Jessup now is a warm fuzzy memory. It really is; replete with an insane number of terribly lousy internal jokes. I only have good things to say about that experience. The team became great friends and still are. Not to forget our amazing coaches Giriraj and Yakshay.

    In mooting, as in everything, I suppose practice makes (somewhat) perfect. I had to go at it round over round. Of course, the love for research is very important. It’s more than just skill. Everyone on our team had a zealous drive to read one more article, one more book and one more case. As for speaking, I imagined I wasn’t too bad it, but it took many rounds of grilling to deliver some decent performances at the competition. I quite enjoyed picking up the best speaker awards at the India rounds. Even the world rank wasn’t too bad!

    Jessup continued to be a love affair thereafter. I’ve coached a few teams with varying degrees of success (but mostly disappointment). In my fifth, I enlisted as advisor to the NUJS team that year. They did a fantastic job at the international rounds.

     

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    What internships did you do as a law student? What were your reasons for doing each of them and how was your experience?

    I was quite conservative about picking internships. I wouldn’t advise that any longer. I suppose an internship each at AMSS and AZB improved the chances of landing a job at a law firm, but I no longer find that an attractive idea. I have very little to talk about those internships, although I did decent work during most of them. I think I got lucky getting assigned to good partners each time. If I had to give a word of advice about picking internships, I’d strongly recommend getting a variety of experiences, at different courts and different sorts of firms.

     

    Upon graduating, you started working at Majmudar & Co., Mumbai as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? Please describe the interview and induction procedure for a fresher?

    I was recruited to Majmudar on the first day of our recruitment process. Majmudar, back then, had the best recruitment procedure, which involved a three stage gruelling process – quite like big firms in other countries. The fact that their process was so thorough made me want to take the job. Also, the fact that it was a mid-sized firm meant that I was likely to shoulder more responsibility than a typical first year associate. That again, was an important factor in accepting their offer. I can’t say what it is to be inducted there now, it’s been a while since I left; but it’s certainly a good place to go if a fresher is willing to be at the business end of things in a short span of time. One tends to get baptized by fire there.

     

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    You worked at Majmudar & Co. for six months. What did your work and responsibilities consist of? What were your reasons for leaving within such a short span of time?

    I have no complaints about the work I got at Majmudar. I had plenty of it, and that kept me happy. And I had enough time to savour Mumbai; all the good food and drink (in generous measure). So, maintaining the balance certainly wasn’t my problem. I advised on some corporate issues but most of my work was concentrated around huge sets of cases that we were handling across courts in India, and at the Bombay High Court in particular. I really cherish the exposure I had to high end litigation work in the earliest days of my career.

    Why did I leave? I had some reasons to go back to Calcutta. Also, the litigation bug bit me pretty strong while at Majmudar. Being at the Bombay High Court gave me a push to the ‘other’ side. So I packed my bag and imagined making forceful arguments every day at the Calcutta High Court.

     

    After leaving, you started practicing in Calcutta as an Advocate. Did you work under a senior lawyer or start your own practice? What were your reasons for moving from a corporate setting to litigation?

    Calcutta maintains the traditional solicitor-barrister/counsel divide. I cast my lot on the side of counsels, joined the bar library club and attached myself to the chamber of Mr. Samit Talukdar, one of the most prominent senior advocates of the court. In about three months, I had a few briefs trickling in. Then I had quite a few. As I said, the sheer attraction of arguing from the bar had drawn me to litigation. I lived some bit of it in the three years at the High Court. I had moved from wearing a tie to wearing a gown, but I was essentially practising a lot of company and commercial law. Even so, the sort of research that goes into preparing to write a brief or argue a case was infinitely more challenging than anything I had done before. It was like doing Jessup every day, at high speed. It was thrilling to be in the midst of volumes of case reports, treatises and piles of petitions. Very soon, my room at home, which I doubled up as an office, looked like a godown. Doing good litigation delivers great satisfaction, but mostly it’s a humbling experience, as I realized every day how much more there was to learn. I worked on a few matters with the top counsels of the court (and indeed of the country), and the challenge of being a worthwhile junior on a matter was quite great. I think I didn’t do too badly. Every once in a while, I heard a word of appreciation that made me dizzy with delight.

     

    After three years of practice, you decided to study further. What were your reasons for doing so, especially when the general notion is that for a career in litigation one requires practical experience more than an LL.M?

    It’s a somewhat correct notion that an LL.M. isn’t the best idea right in the middle of growing practice. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t advised against it, and that came from quarters whose wisdom I have no reason to doubt. My seniors at the bar quite correctly advised me to be circumspect about making the decision. And I was. I don’t think I really made up my mind till pretty late. If I am to be really pragmatic, I doubt this LL.M. can have anything to do with setting up a better practice; at least not in Calcutta. If anything, having lost a year at a time when my practice was picking up, means having lost momentum. Fortunately, I did not make the decision of doing this LL.M. pragmatically. I did it because I simply felt some sort of an intellectual thirst, if you will. Not to suggest that working on cases can’t quench it, but I was craving to be theoretical, and was interested in taking liberties that I couldn’t have done while remaining committed to a client!

     

    Please tell us about your decision to pursue an LL.M at Harvard Law School. Please share some advice on acing the application requirements and procedure for Harvard.

    I’ve always gushed at the name Harvard. I’ve been here a while, and I still do. Not because it’s a reasonable thing to do, but I don’t espouse being reasonable all the time. As I said, I hadn’t decided about actually taking the year off to study when I applied. But when the admission letter came along, I think it was quite hard to look away. It also coincided happily with my wife’s career plans, and she was quite sure about taking her place up at the Chicago Law School. I think I’ve made a few decisions that don’t sit well with rationality. I wouldn’t advise following suit, as a matter of reasonableness. But I would advise it as a matter of principle, because I think it’s quite silly for us to be tied to decisions that we make when we’re all quite young. Not marriage of course. That one is forever!

    Applying to an LL.M., whether at HLS or elsewhere, requires some amount of dedication in crafting the materials. The key is just to start early in the admission cycle – get the referees to send in their letters and the universities in India to send in the transcripts etc. After that, it’s about writing a solid essay. I think the essay requires some good imagination more than anything else. I wrote my application on issues of private international law, because at that time I was quite committed to thinking about rules that govern conflict between jurisdictions. I think the essay requires the demonstration of both a clear understanding of a particular legal issue and a reasonable framework for thinking about solutions.

     

    It’s a dream for many law students to get through to Harvard Law School. What would be one thing they should necessarily do as a law student?

    They should necessarily study hard. It’s sine qua non to be reasonably well grounded in the laws of the jurisdiction one hails from. I can’t imagine what the factors are, that determine the selection process; I’m just lucky to be here. But if I were to hazard a guess, I think the admissions people at the top law schools are able to discover if the candidate has some real intellectual thirst.

     

    What were the subjects you were specialising in at Harvard? How has your experience been? Did you indulge in extra-curricular and co-curricular activities there?

    I came in imagining that I’d study a set of subjects that are useful in cross-border litigation. Instead, I’ve spent the year studying international and comparative law, international trade and legal theory. The LL.M. dissertation is focussed on an issue in international trade law (which for selfish reasons, I shall keep to myself). For the most part, I’ve been excited taking classes at HLS. I think the distinguishing feature of the experience for me has been the compulsion that I have felt to think critically, not only about existing regulation, but also about the existing normative views.

    HLS is abuzz with opportunities outside the classroom framework, and I’ve delighted myself attending a host of talks, conferences and symposia. Unfortunately, an LL.M. lasts only a year, and one can’t have everything. I’d have liked to do a lot of things in this one year – be a research assistant, work at the library, join a journal. I’ve managed none of that. Except Jessup. I enlisted as a coach to the team from HLS. Unfortunately, we didn’t make it past the semi-finals at the Northeast Regionals. Till now, one of the highlights of the HLS year has been a fellowship with the Salzburg Cutler Program, which is an awesome conference on all things about international law. It was my first taste of what it is like to defend a paper at a really serious academic workshop.

     

    Tell us about the faculty and facilities at Harvard. Please share with us a memorable incident from Harvard.

    One can’t have enough of being in awe of the faculty at Harvard. Everyone I’ve encountered is brilliant. I have special regard for my supervisor, Professor Mark Wu. But generally, it’s an environment where the intellectual stimulation is beyond anything I’ve experienced before.

    Watching six feet of snow accumulate over a week is pretty memorable. Otherwise, having studied under (the quite legendary) Duncan Kennedy, now in his year before retirement, is something worth writing in a diary.

     

    Going forward, how do you see your LL.M qualification would add to your career? Do you think of working abroad ever? Will you return to litigation?

    This is a question I’m not fully equipped to answer. I can make absolutely no prediction of how my career will be affected by this LL.M. I’m certainly not looking to work in a law-firm here. I can’t say further about litigation because I’m yet to sit down and make some hard choices. I am hoping to do some international trade related work.

     

    Please share with us your experience in litigation. What is one thing that gives premier law school students an edge over others in litigation?

    I’ve already spoken as to what my experience was as a counsel at the High Court. I enjoyed the work that I did at the High Court, and the challenges that came with doing that work. I think the second bit of this question is ill-conceived. I eschew the premier law school tag, and I think it’s an undeserving badge. Many of my contemporaries at the Calcutta High Court didn’t attend these so called ‘premier’ institutions, but were more competent than I could pretend to be. I suppose rigorous academic training makes a difference, but that’s certainly more up to the student than the institution. If on a general review, we could say that some law schools train students better than some others, then there’d be some advantage starting off; but, it gets quickly eroded in practice. I don’t think law schools train students to be practitioners, and I don’t think it’s their job to so. I think the real advantage rests with those who can learn the law as it gets applied in courts, quickly, along with court-craft and litigation strategy.

     

    Does the Calcutta High Court environment get stressful? What would be your suggestion to a fresher who is graduating this year and would join Calcutta High Court?

    I don’t know of any workplace where the environment causes absolutely no stress. Sure, there’s a fight for space and recognition, but it isn’t a place that a reasonably robust individual cannot survive. I was certainly privileged in the sense that I got to join a really good chamber and my senior was invested in my career. Also, I had plenty of financial muscle from my family to hold me up. Therefore, I don’t think my experience can be representative of the struggle that some others might have to go through, and I don’t intend to paint a picture that is rosier than reality. Having offered that as a caveat, I do think that the High Court is a good place to start (and continue) a great career in litigation. Of course, the court isn’t as active in the commercial space as the courts in Delhi and Mumbai, but there’s still enough work to be done. I think it’s important to have spent some time at the court before making the decision, and a graduating student would at least need to know who the best (and the most indulgent) seniors are.

     

    How much politics would you say is involved on the Calcutta High Court premises? How do you say one can possibly keep oneself away from this?

    If you are talking about factions in the profession, then my answer would be – yes, there are some and people get invariably implicated. Also, depending on the affiliation that a lawyer has (bar association/bar library club/incorporated law society), a degree of factionalism is almost impossible to avoid. I suppose a generally conscientious person can manage the fine line between good association and vile politicking. Also, I think the affiliations make for good cricket tournaments and the like!

    If you are talking of a political atmosphere, then I think it’s only fair that legal professionals have political views and are engaged in lawyering to achieve political ends. I think lawyering is a way of expressing ourselves as political beings and I certainly wouldn’t be shy in doing that.

     

    Who are your mentors and/or guides you look forward to for advice?

    I feel quite blessed because of the number of people who have advised me well during various stages from law school to the profession. I often turn to Justice N.N. Mathur, our former Vice Chancellor whenever I need to talk about career ideas, as also some of the senior advocates I worked with – my chamber senior Mr. Talukdar, Mr. S.N. Mookerji and Mr. Jishnu Saha. And my professors here at HLS – particularly, Mark Wu. However, I think the list is much longer and I must repeat myself in saying that I am indebted to more than a few people for having been mentors and guides.

     

    Lastly, what advice would you like to give our readers?

    I’m not going to pretend to have seen enough to dole out any meaningful advice. But to law students, I’d stress on the importance of being grounded in studying law at law school, and then making career decisions after seeing a wide spectrum of possibilities. I think there is considerable pressure exerted in law school to pick certain career paths, and while those are often excellent choices, they don’t work out so well for everyone.

     

  • Megha Bhagat, Independent Consultant, Human Rights in the non-profit sector, on a career in research

    Megha Bhagat, Independent Consultant, Human Rights in the non-profit sector, on a career in research

    Megha Bhagat graduated from Army Institute of Law, Mohali. She pursued an LL.M in Human Rights from NLSIU, Bangalore before going on to work at NASSCOM Foundation. She has received a Certificate of Recommendation from HRLN for extraordinary participation in the National Convention on Human Rights and Mental Health, a Certificate of Recommendation from the Supreme Court Bar Association and a Certificate of Appreciation from Amnesty International. She currently works as an independent consultant in the non-profit sector.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law college experience at Army Institute of Law, Mohali.
    • Masters in Human Rights from NLSIU, Bangalore.
    • Interning and working at the NASSCOM Foundation.
    • Being an independent consultant in the non-profit sector.

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. How did you decide to take up law?

    I grew up as a typical military brat with schooling all over the country. This probably formed the foundation for making career choices that varied over the years since I got to meet different role models while moving schools. I can never answer “how” or “why” I decided to take up law but I distinctly remember saying to my history teacher back in the 9th grade that I will either be a lawyer or a journalist. I think the need to know how systems work triggered the decision to study law.

     

    You graduated with a BA.LLB from Army Institute of Law, Mohali. How was your law school experience? Looking back, what would you do differently?

    When I got into law college I was another 18 year old who had just gotten her first sense of academic freedom. The first year was about figuring out what was it about the subject that really fascinated me and this also typically meant not being a student who scored high grades. While the style of academics remained pretty much like school system, I started exploring the practical world of law and started embarking on internships and legal workshops. Since the college provided the option of specialising in human rights, corporate law or litigation in the 4th year I started building my understanding of what I really wanted to do.

    For the first 3 years I interned at all forms of legal offices- be it criminal lawyers in Punjab & Haryana High Court, Khaitan & Co for the corporate experience, district courts in Lucknow or Human Rights Law Network in New Delhi. This was to ensure that I knew with absolute certainty what kind of law inspired me to work in a particular sector. By the time 4th year happened it was clear that I wanted to study human rights law and interestingly I was the only student not only in the college but the complete university that opted to pursue human rights law! I spent the last two years being on my own (no faculty, no peers), not only studying the intricacies of law but also working on workshops and seminars outside the academic circle. That built my overall exposure to the various facets of options I had set for myself and created role models from the sector.

    I gave up on the idea of mooting pretty early in law college and that is one thing I would love to go back and change for myself! I think being a law student, it is a critical skill to evaluate yourself as a court room lawyer, so it’s something I missed out on.

     

    You received extraordinary accolades while still in law school. Please tell us about these.

    I received a Certificate of Recommendation by HRLN for extraordinary participation in the National Convention on Human Rights and Mental Health in October, 2004, a Certificate of Recommendation by the Supreme Court Bar association in April, 2005, and a Certificate of Appreciation by Amnesty International in August, 2007.

    One thing I was clear about was that I wanted exposure beyond academic life and therefore remained very active in social circles beyond law college. I worked on making long lasting professional connections at the internships I pursued and I was able to get access to opportunities that existed outside college. Since human rights was already my preferred area of expertise, I was able to find mentors very early in college who groomed me in the sector and that led to participating in sector-specific work with organisations like HRLN and Amnesty.

    I was involved in curating content for the mental health convention and leading a panel on mental health discourse. With Amnesty I was involved in working on the campaign against death penalty in India and wrote a paper on the same while at college. The Supreme Court Bar Association organises an annual conference which nominated students also attend and I was nominated by the college to take part in a discussion on changing trends in human rights discourse globally.

     

    You interned at the NASSCOM Foundation while in law school and were offered a job there upon finishing your studies. What should one do to get noticed in a large organisation during a short, month-long internship?

    It is very important that you are clear about how far off you see yourself in an organisation when you intern there. This gives you clarity in terms of your role in the organisation as an intern and leads you to make a better impression. In a large organisation it is critical that your interview has already hallmarked you as a different intern over others. For me, that has been my absolute strength- to have distinguished myself with specific skill sets over other interviewees. This impression is typically shared by your supervisor with other seniors in the organisation and that also defines the kind of work you will be doing as an intern.

    Secondly, it is important you join an internship with an inherent zeal and capacity to learn and unlearn. While the “interns fetch the coffee” mechanism may apply at most places I find that most organisations are looking at an intern as a nimble footer who can move between projects easily and effortlessly. I actually joined NASSCOM Foundation and before that GMR Foundation on program management roles which had nothing to do with law at all and yet I entered with a simple mantra of “it is never too late to learn new subject matters and skills”, this trait was duly recognised at both the organisations.

    You have to ensure that you have made a few solid skills of yours noticed and recognised. You can be a good researcher, a fantastic orator, a fabulous report writer, an awesome draftsman- you need to ensure that your work has made this known to the supervisor and also senior folks. They hire you back for skill sets they believe are missing in others and you have to figure that out while you are a part of the team. Lastly, socialise with the organisation! I have always believed that anybody is a person first and bosses/colleagues/peers later, so they are looking to know your working style as a person. Create/use opportunities to meet the seniors in the organisation, have personal conversations with them giving them a peek of where you come from and why you are working with them, pick up a few projects that are outside your work role and talk about those projects to the folks in the organisation. While at NF I was handling various projects from very varied perspectives and I had made my relationship building skills known to the organisation for them to hire me back to lead programs.

     

    You pursued an LL.M in Human Rights from NLSIU, Bangalore immediately after graduating. What were your reasons for doing so?

    I personally think it is an individual choice to pursue higher studies and their motivation to do so. My motivation was simple- I had deep dived deep into human rights studies during my under grad period without any faculty or guide support and I was deeply interested in rigorously studying the nuances of the subject under able guidance. I went on to pursue an LL.M immediately because I did not want a break in my studies and went on to specialise again in human rights at NLSIU. For me it was the best decision I ever made simply because I spent the next two years dissecting closely the working nuances of various human rights mechanisms and gathering more experience through trainings etc.

     

    Is it better to work for a couple of years and then go for an LL.M or do one immediately after graduating?

    Every law student should prioritise their 2 year plan right after law school early on. If you are interested in getting on with the job, then by all means pursue work immediately after law school. If you are interested in an LL.M adding specific specialities to your resume, then you should have either figured out by your final year of under-grad what subject excites you (through internships) or you can work for a few years and figure out what speciality makes the most sense to you. And of course if you are a learner like me then join an LL.M to explore what else you can extract from theoretical knowledge about the legal systems.

     

    You were a Research Assistant for a period of ten months on the topic of “Common Resources of Mankind”. Can you tell us the experience of taking part in this conference?

    This was for a Conference on “Commons” held in January, 2011 under the chairmanship of Nobel Laureate Elinor Ostrom. This was a huge opportunity that came along while I was pursuing my masters at NLSIU. We were chosen to participate in the research for the conference and the papers that would be presented thereof. I was a part of a small working group that was collecting global evidence of the “Common knowledge” and sharing growth stories. We worked on putting together data that indicated that not only were resources to be shared amongst nations but also that knowledge shared across nations was more conducive and relevant to the globalised world order.It was personally a very exciting and fulfilling experience since it added to my overall learning growth under such an esteemed academician.

     

    After graduating, you joined the NASSCOM Foundation, New Delhi as a Business Responsibility Officer. What was your work profile like? What were your main tasks?

    My work profile included program management for CSR, research and publication on relevant CSR subjects and support for the Disability Program of the organisation.

    In the first year I was tasked to build regional industry forums on Corporate Social Responsibility. I was leading 3 regions: Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai, and building working groups from within the IT industry to lead social impact projects within the cities. It was an interesting space to work in since it meant that I had to become well versed with all the IT/BPO companies in those regions and curate projects based on the skills that each company possessed and also work with CXO levels to change mindsets around CSR and social impact footprint of the industry.

    In the 2nd year two changes took place- I was handed the responsibility to set up operations for the organisation in Bangalore and also handed the Program Management responsibility for an internationally funded project by the Rockefeller Foundation. I moved to Bangalore to successfully start the Foundation’s south regional office and also worked on new skills of writing funding proposals, managing an international donor and pretty much moved towards program management work. I did stay in touch with the law with the Planning Commission’s work on the 5 year plan where Iwas representing the industry on the change in the disability schemes and law. Similarly, I stayed connected with policy making work while working with the Karnataka government on amending the policy for Rural BPO’s within the state and creating more inclusive policies for small entrepreneurs.

     

    After two years at NASSCOM, you joined the Fellowship Program at The Rockefeller Foundation. How did you secure your appointment as a Social Innovation Fellow? How was your experience there?

    The Social Innovation Fellowship at the Rockefeller Foundation was a nomination led process. All 18 fellows were selected and nominated by the Rockefeller Foundation based on our areas of specialisation and backgrounds. I was at that point of time also leading a project for the Foundation in India and working on creating a report for the global BPO industry.

    Like most fellowships this was a life changing experience. I was one of the youngest fellows in the cohort and this was especially exciting since I got to learn from very inspiring senior folks from the social impact sector. We were travelling every 3 months to a new country to look at social innovation on the ground and to learn theoretical tools from our faculty from University of Waterloo, Canada and Stockholm Institute of Resilience. The travelling diaries made the beautiful countries seem so much more closer and catered to the travel bug in me.

    It was riveting being amongst social change makers and witnessing NGO’s on the ground that were implementing social impact on a large scale and under various dynamics. At a personal level it made me introspect about my vision for myself and what else I wanted to do to change the world. I not only went on to make great friends but I’m also still inspired by the passion for social change that these amazing social innovators carry. I moved on from NASSCOM Foundation at the end of my fellowship program and started my own journey of creating social impact via various projects and organisations instead of limiting myself to one organisation.

     

    Please tell us about your current occupation. What do your main tasks and assignments include?

    Presently, I work as an independent consultant in the non-profit sector consulting with the International Institute of Education and Advisor at Education for Development, a non-profit organization in the education sector. I started consulting for non profits and start ups earlier this year. I currently lead operations for IIE’s new project called We Tech (Women Enhancing Technology) and led the foray of the program in India. I primarily work with the IT companies on mentoring high school girls to enter the coding space. The program is just going into its second year and I am working closely with the industry to scale the program.

    In my role with E4D I am working with a very inspiring youngster who graduated from college and decided to change the way learning systems run in the country instead of taking up a plush job. E4D set up a “maker space” on the outskirts of Bangalore and provides an alternative learning system to anybody who wants to learn from making. I work with the start up on business development, outreach to partners and organisation visioning.

     

    Your interest areas have been education, policy research and business strategy. How did you pursue these interest areas while still in law school?

    I have always been interested in pursuing different subjects and gaining new skills through that exploration. While at law school I was involved with various research organisations like HRLN, Amnesty, etc. and worked on research papers for various human rights subjects including education. I had a lot of time on my hand to write articles based on changing policies and utilised my professional circle to gain access to opportunities to present the research or work on new and developing research. While I interned with foundations of corporate houses I picked up the nuances of business strategy by working closely with the corporate, business development teams of the parent organisation. I was always interested in how one could integrate social responsibility within the DNA. The wide range of exposure got for myself gave me ample playing field to pursue my interests.

     

    You have been commended by your previous and current employers for being a people’s person and building strong working relationships. How important are social skills for a lawyer and how does one cultivate them?

    Personally I am a typical military girl, which means I am used to forming relationships where ever I go. Add to it the fact that all through my seven years of legal education I dabbled with varied institutions and organisations thus leading to an overall understanding of different industries and professionals.

    As a lawyer, I think social skills are extremely relevant if you want to grow out of your shell at a regular desk job! If you are looking to grow further up in the legal field or diversify later into varied sectors you need to socialise beyond the circle and form learning relationships with various professionals. It is important to go out of your comfort zone and interact with professionals in different fields, to have a childlike curiosity to learn something new and if there is one thing every human likes it is the opportunity to share knowledge. In my experience forming people relationships is an important component to grow as a professional and seeking out collaborators is useful in the long run. Whoever you meet through work should connect with you at a personal level too and that goes a long way in staying on as strong professional networks.

     

    It is a common belief that working in the areas of human rights and policy research doesn’t pay well or at least as much as a law firm does. How true is that notion and how much of a hindrance is it for people joining this area of work?

    Unfortunately the social impact sector does not have pay grades like law firms. This grim reality has led to keeping fresher level talent away from this sector. The growth in the sector takes place after the initial 4-5 years and “social work” “policy research work” haven’t picked up as mainstream skilled professions leading to much less people joining the sector. The other side of the coin is that the growth is phenomenal if you stay put for initial 3 years and learn the sector well enough. The sector requires nuanced expertise and once you have created a network for yourself and become a subject matter expert it doesn’t take much to grow from post to post.

     

    What are your plans for the future? What advice would you give to the students reading this interview?

    I intend to keep working in new subject areas and utilise my skills to work on solving varied social problems. I would hate to stay put in a specific area and therefore I see myself drifting from education to technology to urban development challenges to art and literature as forms of ending violence. The variety in the subject matter keeps me excited and thus will move from one project to another keeping my insane urge to travel also satisfied.

    I would say to the students that: Don’t restrict yourself to one particular field of study just because you entered a particular sector. Figure out for yourself what excites you the most and then pursue that ambition with or without law. There are amazing opportunities that exist outside the framework and as a lawyer you are already well equipped to be a rockstar in most of the nuanced sectors! Pursue a particular field because that is what inspires you every day otherwise you will just end up being another lawyer in the country!

  • Gaurav Singhal, Director and Principal IPR Attorney, Patracode Services, on his journey from Engineering to Law and a career in IPR

    Gaurav Singhal, Director and Principal IPR Attorney, Patracode Services, on his journey from Engineering to Law and a career in IPR

    Gaurav Singhal graduated with B.Tech degree from UPTU in 2006. His interest in IPR law led him to join Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law (IIT, Kharagpur) and pursue an LL.B.

    While in college, he co-founded Siddhast Intellectual Property Services. After graduation, he was placed at Siemens Information Systems Ltd. as Strategic IPR Counsel.

    Gaurav Singhal is currently the Director and Principal IPR Attorney at Patracode Services Pvt. Ltd.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law
    • Co-founding Siddhast Intellectual Property Services and entrepreneurship
    • Working at Siemens Information Systems Ltd.

     

    Given that most of our readers belong to the legal fraternity, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I’m a techno-legal professional living his dream to be an entrepreneur. My practice largely runs around Intellectual Property Rights, more specifically towards Patents. My approach is always problem-solution. I identify my customer’s requirement first and then give my best to solve it through the tools of law and business consulting. If the client is bootstrapping, I provide him certain lean strategies to protect his business interest, in spite of going pro-bono. Business Rights are commercial in nature, and are quite different from general civil rights, hence I believe that the client should bear the protection cost, as he shall be reaping commercial benefits from it in due course.

     

    Having done B.Tech from Uttar Pradesh Technical University, what motivated you to choose law as a career at Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law?

    My entry to law was well-planned, however the motive to be in law, was never to practise the law. When I was doing my B. Tech, I was an aspiring entrepreneur and had been practising entrepreneurship at a very small level, while still being at my engineering college. A friend and I had tried multiple fields like other engineering students, they were in and around education programmes, technology project installation, website design handling, business consulting, etc. However, none appeared to be lucrative to us as a business. During the same time we were attending various Business Conferences, and a few of them were based on Intellectual Property Rights. We found Intellectual Property Rights quite fascinating and had decided to pursue as our entrepreneurial career. The decision was validated by doing some mock business development activities with real prospects, which were highly successful.

    However, at that time, we were not sure about how to get the required skills to be in the area of Intellectual Property Rights. We knew that many LPO’s and KPO’s, even law firms take engineers as associates to practise Patents. But, we were sure that for a broader perspective we must do law. At that same time during 2006, IIT Kharagpur started the law school for technical graduates and science post-graduates. I considered that this law school was the right avenue for me to change my career’s direction.

     

    gaurav-singhal-2

    How did you get through to Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law?

    Getting through to IIT Kharagpur’s law school is another dramatic story. If certain  incidents had not occurred then, may be my career path would have been absolutely different.

    When I made the application for Law School, my final semester engineering exam schedule was not out yet. Had it been out, I would not had applied for Law School at all, as one of my final semester exams was in conflict with the Law School entrance exam dates. Once the schedule for final semester exam was out, I came to know about this conflict. I was almost hopeless at that time. However, suddenly some Public Sector Unit had announced their employment examination date, which was conflicting with my final semester exam date, which was conflicting with Law School entrance examination date.

    Hence, under pressure from lot of students, the UPTU had shifted the conflicting examination date to a later one. Now, the dates were not conflicting, however another problem was still there. The Law school entrance examination was being held at IIT Kharagpur, which was atleast 24 hours away from Ghaziabad, where my engineering institute was based. And between two final semester examinations, only 3 days were there, which means less than 72 hours. The law school entrance examination was placed exactly at one day’s gap from the end semester examination. So 48 hours of train journey, written examination, group discussion, personal interview of Law school entrance examination, and preparation for the end semester examination had to be done in less than 72 hours. A very tight situation was there. Even few hours of delay of anything may have jeopardized my future in some way or another. I had decided to take this risk and was eventually successful in both my end semester examination and as well securing a seat for me at Law school.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    During law graduation, my area of interest was purely mostly on Intellectual Property Laws with emphasis on Patents. Even the college was more focused on IP Laws and division of a number of permanent faculties towards other laws and IP Laws was also like giving a weightage to IP Laws. As IP laws, especially the case laws, are more matured in the US, our focus during studies was more towards studying US laws. Even for practical scenario understanding, we had a few visiting faculties coming from US too.

     

    As a law student which activities did you participate in?

    One of the prominent activities which I supported was a student group called Technology Transfer Group whose focus was enabling transfer of technologies developed by professors and researchers at IIT to the industry. One of the aspects of this group was that it supported increasing Patent filings from IIT Kharagpur, which dramatically increased during the year I was handling it. To practise IPR laws and especially patent laws, the guidance was very limited, as we had very limited exposure to practising IP Lawyers during graduation. Even my internships was planned by myself.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Tell us about your law school journey.

    I had been through a total of three internships. The first two were at a small IP services firm, Siddhast Intellectual Property Services, where I was a co-founder and had founded it during first year of Law School itself. After the first year, it was an obvious decision to do an internship in my own venture, because the business was not shaped up.

    I was still two years away from my Law school graduation, so it was obvious that we cannot start with legal services or legal support services. Hence, during those 2 months, my focus was to turn it into a technology transfer company.

    However, in the first 15-20 days itself we started getting the notion that India is still too immature for transfer of patents and technology. So, a steer of focus was required. We required choosing something, where legal services were not involved at all and even legal support should not be required, even it should be close to IP laws and allied area. At that time, we did a lot of market research of the Intellectual Property market and identified an area where legal support was not required, and it was Intellectual Property database, more specifically patents.

    At that time, there was not much competition for Patent database in Indian market and few players had not even entered the market. At that time, we carried out partnership development exercises with a few players and boiled down to Questel Orbit. I worked out my next internship too at Siddhast after 3rd semester’s end. By my second internship Siddhast was running as resellers to Questel’s database and starting getting recognition in National market too.

    However, for my summer internship after 4th semester, I decided to do it in legal services, as by that time I had received substantial exposure to IP Law. This internship I did at Marico’s legal department. When I entered as intern, the legal department was looking towards me more as an expert, as the in-house team was more focused to general commercial laws and very minutely to IP Laws. During these two months, I utilized all my knowledge gained at law school to structure their Trademark portfolio. However, for Patents, there was exposure, which was quite minute.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were to required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    My education at law school had surely prepared me for various activities at my internships and at my job. However, at my job with Siemens, I had to undergo a specialized traineeship to work as Patent drafter and prosecutor, which was my major responsibility. For advising on IP Laws and managing other IP portfolios, like Patents and Designs, my education at Law school had helped me a lot.

     

    How has your mooting experience been?

    Mooting I did majorly as part of college curriculum. However, mooting exposure had helped me to develop and present arguments, which as a practitioner I have to do in day-to-day business.

     

    You started your career at Siemens Information Systems Ltd. as Strategic IP Counsel. How did your appointment take place? Please share you experience with our readers.

    This phase was equally dramatic.  Siddhast, the company which I had co-founded was doing well, rather to say it’s turnover was around 50 Lakhs in 2008-09. I was in double-minds, whether to get an industrial exposure and then join Siddhast or shall I do it right away after school. I had not even applied for the campus placement program. During that time, I was just enjoying the placement process of my classmates.

    On 3rd or 4th day of the process, it was announced that one of my classmates and I were selected for the placement process of Siemens. I was quite amused about it. I was not expecting it, as I have not applied for the process at all. I had moved to my placement coordinator faculty regarding it, to which he mentioned that Siemens was looking for someone who has done graduation in Computer Science and there were only 2 profiles in school, including mine.

    As it was the first year for the college and it was about college’s reputation building, he wanted me to take part in the recruitment process of Siemens. He mentioned that after 6 months, if I do not like it, I may leave Siemens and join my own outfit. At that time, I thought if it is for my alma mater’s reputation, I will take part in the process and also perform. From Siemens, we were told that we shall be tested on Patent Claim drafting. We studied it academically; however the exposure was surely very limited to clear such test. To practise it, I had read through Landis on Patent Claim drafting thoroughly.

    On the test day, we were provided with a test based on European Patent Agent Qualifying examination. Surely, it would have been difficult to do it, if I hadn’t not read well. Almost after 15 days of writing the test, I received a surprise call from the Head of Intellectual Property Department, India of Siemens early at 7:30 am. It was a wakeup call which made my day. I was asked to visit Bangalore for final processing and it was a sponsored trip with flight tickets also sponsored. It was my first exposure to flights. Really, Siemens had given so much to me, at that time; it was not possible for me to say “No”. And, in this way my final induction into Siemens happened.

     

    Later, you switched to Patracode Services Pvt. Ltd. and currently work as Director and Principal IP Attorney. How did your appointment take place? How has your experience at Patracode been so far?

    I am entrepreneur at heart, and that is the reason a Corporate like Siemens was not able to hold me back for long. When I was on the verge of completing four years, I was sure that my further development shall be inhibited in a controlled structure of a Corporate and then I decided to leave. However, Patracode was started much earlier. After leaving Siddhast, I was in touch with our first employee at Siddhast, Kavita Poddar, who was also leaving Siddhast soon after her marriage. Kavita wanted to start an outfit and she was interested to partner with me for that. With Siemens Policies, I was not seeing a harm to start with her, I had nodded “Yes” to her with a condition that I shall be only able to invest, but may not be able to provide much input beyond Management inputs. So, in Patracode, for few years I was just an investor and later on I actively joined it as part of the Management and its Principal IP Attorney.

    In Patracode, I am a free bird and able to steer my ideas easily. Exposure to bootstrapping startups has also given another variation to my advice which are now more lean and yet unconventional. Even my learning path is quite stronger now. I am doing lot more new things every day.

     

    What kind of work and responsibilities does the Director and Principal IP Attorney of Patracode deal with?

    I would say that there isn’t a typical day, as we are very client specific. Someday, I shall  have a full day meeting with clients and attend conferences, some days I am with clients solving their problems, some days I shall be at office training my staff, or planning future strategies. The activities are too diverse and may even involve technical or business consultancies to the client.

     

    What type of cases do you deal with? What amount of legal work is there? How often is legal work outsourced and in what type of cases?

    The cases which we deal with are generally non-contentious and revolve around filing and prosecuting Patent, Trademark, Copyright and design applications. We do not outsource our work in general. However, where we provide legal support, we may outsource it, like in the case of legal and patent translations. We work almost as in-house IP Counsels to our clients.

     

    Does Patracode take interns? What is the process for same?

    Yes, we do take interns. The process is simple. A candidate should apply with his aspiration to achieve during the internship period. If we feel that we can do justice to his aspirations, we may accept him, based on space available with us.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    As they say, it is very correct that learning happens when you do it. However, grooming for receiving that learning happens at law school, where your gurus enable you with the tools to be a receptor of that learning.

     

    If you could list out 3 activities which on a scale of priority, should be at the top in any law student’s school-life what would those be?

    • Make your passion your career.
    • Be disciplined in following your passion.
    • Till the time you have tried very hard, don’t believe that you cannot achieve it.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Just don’t dream, live them. I am sure success lies in living your dreams. Also, don’t do anything which may look career promising, rather just make career in what you like to do. If you will live your passion, success shall follow.

  • Zameer Nathani, Director-Legal, Raymond, ex-Head-Legal of Balaji Telefilms on being an in-house corporate lawyer

    Zameer Nathani, Director-Legal, Raymond, ex-Head-Legal of Balaji Telefilms on being an in-house corporate lawyer

    Mr. Zameer Nathani is one of the most notable legal luminaries within the corporate fraternity. He holds a Master’s Degree in Law and Certifications from World Intellectual Property Office Academy, United Nations.

    Zameer’s corporate career began when he joined Mallar Law Consulting right after graduation. Thereafter, he was the Digital Businesses Associate Vice President-Legal at Reliance Entertainment. He later joined Balaji Telefilms where he worked as Head-Legal. In the meantime he has managed to pursue an Executive MBA from NMIMS.

    While at Balaji, he had personally handled the case for the movie “Dirty Picture” and won before Bombay High Court making it a landmark judgment on brand name, a judgment in the film industry after 1977 Movie “Sholay”.

    Zameer is currently the Director-Legal at Raymond Limited and is also the Honourable Chairman of Entertainment and Media Section at Indian National Bar Association.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Pursuing an executive-MBA from NMIMS
    • A career in corporate law as an in-house counsel
    • Working at corporates like Reliance, Balaji and Raymond

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    My inspiration, that which made way for my decision to choose law as a career was marked by a small yet significant incident, whereby my father made me sign a contract at the age of 21 years for a business property and it made an everlasting impression on my mind of just one sentence that “Everything is about Law”.

    I then decided to pursue a career remarkably different from my family business and that has made me the ‘self-made’ man, I am today. I started working at an early age of 25 and marked the beginning of my career timeline with a lauded law firm and facilitated legal assignments for clients across diverse industry categories.

     

    Tell us something about your college life? Which activities did you participate in? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in your areas of interest?

    Apart from academics, I have had a flair for extracurricular activities always. I used to participate and have won awards for the best speaker in moot court competitions at different levels, best organizer in various inter-college moot courts, quiz contests and compeered college festivals. Developing expertise comes through practice and expediency, and it has been no different for me.

     

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    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time for a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate?

    Be dynamic, you have to push yourself to make sure that you grow in the profession. Be wise, learn to prioritize and distinguish between what is relevant and irrelevant. Be patient and success and growth will come gradually.

     

    What led to your shift from Mallar Law Consulting to Reliance?

    It is not that I wouldn’t prefer working in a company. Once you have grown as an external counsel, you can have a good role as an In-House Counsel. It is a different business environment with different challenges, but you still deal with the legal affairs of that Company.

     

    Thereafter you joined Balaji Telefilms as Head-Legal. What does it take to get the position of Head-Legal at that stage?

    When you have a challenging role in India’s conglomerate, you are able to pursue new challenges and thereby seamlessly take care of legal affairs as Head-Legal.

     

    Recently you have joined Raymond Limited as Director-Legal. What qualities do you think helped you to achieve this status?

    I would take the liberty to shorten it into three words, which are: Experience, knowledge and expertise.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with at Raymond.

    I work towards growth and dynamism in managing the legal affairs of this iconic and the historic group, which is the day to day management. My work profile is to supervise and manage legal affairs of Raymond Limited and its Group Companies.

     

    What changes has being Director-Legal brought into your life? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    I join any corporate considering the opportunities and challenges, and I love that. Work is at par with positions till date. I get up at 4:30 am, meditate and maintain a healthy life and food with a morning walk and begin the day very early for work to be completed by 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. I do not let lethargy set in and come in the way. However, I schedule a vacation once a year with my family. I even organize office outings once in six months where we socialize and have team building exercises.

     

    What are the primary essentials of a good corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    Be prepared to face challenges that come your way. Always absorb challenges and face problems as opportunities.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own? Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building a reputation?

    I have been a litigation lawyer in the past, which gives me an experience even when I am in the corporate fraternity in strategy making and arguments. No plan right now to start my own law firm.

    But yes, a reputation in my law firm earned me a job at Reliance- ADAG at a young age.

     

    In the meantime, you managed to pursue Executive MBA from NMIMS. How do you think an MBA can prove to be useful in a lawyer’s career in the current as well as future market?

    The importance of MBA is to know business management, financial management, team management and alignment of your leadership skills to team up with business.

     

    So for you, why did you feel MBA is a good option for a lawyer and why now?

    Because understanding overall management skills and functioning is necessary, especially when you are at a leadership position.

     

    Would you recommend Management and Marketing professionals to learn the law?

    Some knowledge of law is essential for every professional in business management.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Get your law education from good Indian and/or foreign Universities (U.K, U.S.A etc). Be dynamic, upright, and energetic. Get knowledge from wherever you can. Pertaining to local and international laws, attend seminars organised by Lex Witness, meet new people, and get on international forums for discussion on various laws (local and foreign), and I am sure growth and success shall follow.

     

     

  • Ruhi Paul, Associate Professor, NLU Delhi on teaching, academics, research acumen and legal education

    Ruhi Paul, Associate Professor, NLU Delhi on teaching, academics, research acumen and legal education

    Ruhi Paul studied law at Delhi University and graduated in 1999. She practised for four years before choosing to enter the world of academia. She also holds a Master Degree offered by Guru Nanak Dev University and Ph.D. (Mediation law) from NALSAR University of Law, Hyderabad. She has worked as an Assistant Professor at Department of Law, Guru Nanak Dev University, NALSAR and NLU, Delhi. Presently, she teaches Civil Procedure, Law of Limitation and ADR at National Law University, Delhi as an Associate Professor. She was also involved in a training programme on Civil Procedure & Arbitration Laws for Controller Generals of Indian Defence Accounts Services.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Teaching at National Law University, Delhi
    • Tips on excelling in academics
    • Accessibility and uniformity in NLUs

     

    How did you decide to opt for the field of law?

    As any other young enthusiastic girl, I wanted to join the field of law to help the masses to get justice. I was very fascinated by the idea that simply studying law is empowering in itself as we get to know of our rights and duties.

     

    Do you feel that the legal profession has significantly changed from the time when you decided to study law?

    Yes, the legal profession has changed for better. The base of any profession is research and research has become so easy with all the online resources available now. However, sometimes I miss the long periods we used to spend in the libraries.

     

    You studied law at Delhi University. Which areas of the law fascinated you the most as a law student?

    As a student, I was fascinated by Jurisprudence, Constitutional Law, International Law and Criminal Law. The best strategies according to me was listening very carefully to the lectures in the class, making very good books as base books for the subject and reading the related case laws very minutely.

     

    Your Ph.D. thesis was on mediation law. Why did you choose mediation law in particular? What factors should a legal academic consider while choosing an area of specialization apart from personal interest?

    I chose mediation as I had developed an interest in Alternative Methods of Dispute Resolution (ADR) well before I decided the topic for my Ph.D. thesis. I was teaching ADR at NALSAR University of Law, Hyderabad and I was fascinated by the idea that some disputes can be resolved in ways other than through courts using amicable methods which have the potential of improving human relations apart from resolving disputes. I also realised that Mediation is one such method which is not being researched and used in India as much it is used and researched upon in foreign Jurisdictions. So I decided to do research in Mediation and how it is being administered in India through courts. My Ph.D. is the first Ph.D. on mediation in India.

    A researcher should consider how his/her research can supplement the knowledge about the topic and how relevant the topic is in the contemporary times.

     

    You currently work as an Associate Professor of Law at National Law University, Delhi. What prompted you to choose teaching as a career?

    I had a short stint of four years at the Bar before I switched over to academics and pursued higher studies. While I was practising, I felt that I could be more productive if I joined teaching. As in teaching I can help a larger section of society through equipping young students with not only legal acumen but also lots of other life skills like positive thinking, taking responsibilities, team work, sensitivity towards others, leadership qualities, time management, stress management, etc. I feel that these qualities can help a law student to not only become a successful professional but a responsible citizen of India. This can automatically improve not only the Bench and Bar but the entire society.

     

    Tell us about your teaching methodology. Do you encourage students to take notes or do you engage your students in active class participation?

    I practise an interactive teaching methodology. I do not encourage students to take notes. I want a class which is alive and participative. I never mind my students asking questions. In fact, I feel motivated to teach a class which is fully prepared for the topic beforehand or the students who generally have an inquisitive bent of mind.

    Teaching is something which gives me lot of satisfaction at the end of the day as it is a learning process for me as well. I have to keep myself updated to face the students.

     

    What subjects are you currently teaching? What are your current research interests? Have you involved your students in your research?

    Currently I am teaching Civil Procedure, Law of Limitation and ADR. My practice at the Bar has really helped me in my teaching of procedural subjects. My current research interest is to delve deeper into the field of mediation. I am planning to write something like Jurisprudence of Procedural Laws to make the learning of procedural subjects interesting for students. Presently, students find it very hard to concentrate in procedural subjects as they try to learn it like any theory subject. I try different interesting ways to teach procedural laws and try to give practical based research projects so that students gets a deeper understanding of procedural laws. Yes, I have involved students in my research and it was a great combined learning experience for all of us.

     

    Do you think students should treat their professors like friends, or is it necessary to maintain a disciplined environment to create a good classroom environment?

    I think some bit of discipline is always necessary for anything that we do in life. I feel that in the classroom there should be a disciplined environment for a serious learning experience for both the teacher and the taught. Outside the classroom, the Professors should be friendly so that the students can approach them for discussing their study related and other problems. I think that we teachers have a larger role to play in the lives of our students and so we have to playing different roles like that of a strict teacher, parent, friend, guide, mentor, etc.

     

    Could you give our young readers certain tips on excelling in academics? As a teacher what tips do you give to your students for proper understanding of a subject?

    As a student, I used to make it a point to listen very carefully to whatever was taught in the classes. I think students should read the law (bare Acts, etc) very minutely to understand what the legislator is trying to say and why a particular law is being made. Reading cases related to the subject is also very helpful in understanding how the law is applied to real life situations. Most importantly, students should be very sensitive to what is happening in their surroundings as the understanding and application of law becomes very simple if one has lots of real life experiences.

    I strongly suggest students not to go for cramming or following any other short cuts just to pass in exams. Students should understand that they have a very important role to play in building up of the future generation and so they should choose wisely what they want to do in life and do it vey sincerely.

     

    You were involved in the training programme on Civil Procedure & Arbitration Laws for Controller Generals of Indian Defence Accounts Services. What were the most intellectually stimulating aspects of this experience?

    The most stimulating aspects of this experience is the fact that I have to offer sessions to people who most of the times are very senior officials and experts in their field. To offer orientations in Legal subjects, one requires a totally different type of methodology than teaching young law students. I really enjoy the practical application based questions from the trainees. I also like the fact that I need to design the course according to the need of the trainees who might not be having any legal background but who require an understanding of these areas of law in their work field.

     

    When would you say a legal academician is ready to start writing books? Any time management tip for budding legal academicians?

    Research is very essential for academics and it is a continuous process. I think there is no hard and fast rule as to what the right time is for an academician to start writing a book. Whenever an academician thinks s/he has acquired sufficient understanding of a topic/phenomenon/ process, both practically and theoretically, and his/her research will add something to the already existing literature on the topic, s/he can start writing a book. An academician can also refine his/her research while writing the book and so it is perfectly fine if s/he is digressing from the original research plan.

    We always can find time to do what we really want to do in life so I think there is no problem of finding out time for research or for any other work from our regular schedule. I sincerely believe in the saying, “When there is a will, there is a way”.

    For budding legal academicians, I want to say firstly, that they should enjoy life because life is a gift from God that we get only once. Secondly, when they work/ study/research than also they should do that with the same zeal and enjoyment. Your work will give you respect, authority, fame, livelihood and satisfaction.

     

    A common perception in the student community is that the curriculum in most NLUs is outdated and does not equip the students with the skills that they need to solve real life problems. What are your thoughts about this perception?

    I, humbly, don’t subscribe to this view. All the law schools follow a very flexible approach to curriculum design. The faculty is given a lot of space to design courses and are encouraged to keep updating the syllabi with the changes in the law. Apart from the basic courses, law schools have clinic courses which help a student to understand ADR mechanisms, drafting of pleadings and conveyancing, application of law in courts/tribunals, etc. Law schools also have extensive internship programs to enable students to have an experience of working with various organisations. In NLU, Delhi, we have library internships for first year students, NGO intersnships for second year students, Trial advocacy for third year students, appellate courts internship for fourth year and fifth year students. Law schools also have research centres which provide a forum for the students to get involved in various research projects, most of which are empirical in nature. In NLU, Delhi, presently, students are involved in the Clinic on death row prisoners, legal aid work, construction workers, gender issues, etc.

     

    Another concern that is often raised is that the NLUs are beyond the reach of hardworking students who lack the economic resources to study in these prestigious institutions. What steps should be taken foster more equality in the NLUs?

    At NLU, Delhi, we offer scholarships to students who lack economic resources. Sometimes, full fee waiver is also granted, if the circumstances require it. Various legal and other institutions can also have schemes of sponsoring the student’s studies. Initiatives like IDIA are good and should be extended to all institutions.

    The students who lack economic resources can also be allowed to do part time work in the libraries, etc to earn their pocket money while they stay in the law school.

     

    NLUs in India have often been described as islands of excellence amidst a sea of mediocrity. What steps should be taken to usher in greater uniformity in the quality of legal education in the country?

    I think the law schools and the Law universities and colleges should start working together. By working together, uniformity can be brought in legal education. There can be arrangements for exchange of faculty, certificate courses can be offered to students in law schools on subjects of their choice, law schools can have trainings for teachers in course designing and teaching methodology, etc. NLU, Delhi has Academy for Law Teachers which conducts training and workshops on regular basis. Joint research programs can be initiated.

     

    Any important things which law school didn’t teach you but ‘teaching’ did?

    Teaching has taught me lot of patience, the ability to see things from a wider perspective and self-control. Teaching has taught me to be a student of law for the rest of my life.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to people who want to take up a career in teaching?

    Teaching has always been a very respectable profession. Teaching as a career is highly satisfying. Now a days, even the financial aspect is not a concern if you want to join teaching. It is a field which will help you to learn throughout your life by keeping you involved with bright, young and enthusiastic people. Teaching gives you the power to shape the future generation and with it comes the high responsibility to do this with great care and concern for the values of the society, the nation and the world as a whole.

     

  • Shantanu Sahay, Partner, Anand & Anand, on work experience in IPR and journey from Associate to Partner

    Shantanu Sahay, Partner, Anand & Anand, on work experience in IPR and journey from Associate to Partner

    Shantanu Sahay graduated from National Law Institute University, Bhopal in 2007. With an in-depth knowledge and interest in IPR laws, he joined the litigation team of Anand and Anand as an Associate in 2007. With his work, acumen and diligence, he was quickly elevated to the rank of a partner in June, 2014. We asked him to share his work experiences and career moves with us.

    In this interview, he tells us about:

    • Law School experience at NLIU, Bhopal
    • The journey from an associate to becoming a partner at Anand & Anand
    • Work at a top IPR Law Firm
    • Important skills of a lawyer and a partner

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or plan?

    I belong to a family of lawyers. In fact, I am the fifth generation lawyer from my father’s side. My father is still a practicing advocate at the Patna High Court. Also, both my grandfathers have been lawyers. Being born in a family full of lawyers, I definitely had some sort of a natural inclination towards this field and in view of this; it was very much a matter of fate too.

    However, I was also impressed by the concept of five years integrated law school course such as NLS, NLIU, NALSAR etc and thus I decided to sit for law school entrance examinations.

    I had the chance to score rank one at the all India entrance examination for NLIU, Bhopal in 2002 and therefore I decided to join it.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the National Law Institute University, Bhopal?

    I was in NLIU from 2002 to 2007 and it was one of the finest days of our lives.

    NLIU offered everything which we aspired as law students. From academics, sports, library and other infrastructural facilities, NLIU was just fantastic. It was five years full of fun and was a world in itself. I made a lot of friends at law school.

    Also, because it was an on campus residential set up, we used to have a lot of activities after college hours. Debating, sports, dramatics, moot courts etc gave us a lot of exposure in shaping our outlook towards life in general and legal profession is particular.

     

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    How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious career in legal?

    I would say fifty-fifty. Obviously, good CGPA is an indicator of how much hard work you put in into your academics at law school.

    Also, from the perspective of campus placement, having a good CGPA always stands to be an advantage. But that does not mean that a good CGPA will guarantee an illustrious career.

    Your performance at the law school is totally independent of your performance as a professional. In fact, there have been a lot of cases where a lot of law students who were not that high graders in law school performed really well after they joined the profession.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. How do you say one can gain expertise in it? What does it take to be good in IPR?

    I got interested in IPR from my first year itself. In the boys hostel during my first year I used to live around my seniors who were interested IPRs. They used to write various articles and do a lot of research work in various field pertaining to IPRs.

    Initially, I used to help them with their researches and it is from there my interested in this particular field of law took off.

    All my internships, publications, moots etc used to be in IPR. In fact, my resume was so much IP specific that I was not even short listed for any corporate based law firms during my final year. I interned at Anand and Anand in 2007 and joined the firm that very year.

     

    You joined Anand and Anand as an Associate in 2007 and became a Partner in 2014. For a law student it’s very difficult to think about becoming a partner in just seven years of joining work. What would you say helped you to join the ranks of a partner?

    I was inducted in the litigation department at A&A and was involved with the IT and E-commerce law practice group. The partner who was heading this vertical went on to become a client. From 2010, I started heading this practice and in 2014, I was called into partnership as the partner-in-charge of this vertical.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to get it appreciated? What distinguishes an associate with a partner when it comes to work?

    Execution of the assignments in a diligent manner is the mantra. Hard work and dedication really pays well and associates are recognized very well in terms of their visibility and their importance in a team.

     

    What does a partner at a Law Firm like Anand and Anand do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    As an in-charge of this practice, come a lot of responsibilities, targets and travels. You are responsible to the clients as well as the internal senior leadership. To add, there are also expectations in terms of getting new clients to the firm. These tasks are challenging but fun at the same time.

    Normally in the first half, I go to the Delhi High Court where I attend to my matters along with the team. Then I come back to office (which is in Noida) around lunch time. Post lunch is usually allotted for client meetings and conference calls. In the evening, I respond to all my emails and prepare for the matters listed the coming day. I try to leave office by 9 pm.

     

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner? What separates the people who become partner from those who don’t?

    As a partner, it is important to engage in Business Development. Especially, as in charge of the vertical, I have been doing BD for a long time now. Rain makers in these law firm structures are always valued by the senior leadership and also increase chances for further promotions. One has to understand that partnership also has its own growth path.

     

    How is the work culture at Anand and Anand? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    Anand and Anand has a fabulous work culture. This is one place where performance takes precedence over seniority. Associates work in a relaxed environment and have a lot of independence and exposure to various challenging legal issues.

     

    What changes has being a Partner brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you?

    Not much difference I should say. Work load remains same but responsibilities have increased. Travels have increased and so have client interactions.

     

    How is internship helpful for a law student? Esp. from the viewpoint of Anand & Anand?

    Anand & Anand in true sense takes internships very seriously and for us an intern is a potential recruit. Internships are important as they can give the real world experience to a law student as to how their life would somewhat be after they pass out from college.

    Internships, if done diligently can result in recruitment as has been my case.

     

    What are the qualities you look for in an intern at Anand & Anand?

    Hard work, dedication and having a right kind of attitude in terms of taking on assignments from their reporting teams. More than possessing the knowledge of law, it is important to have the right kind of aptitude in terms of knowing where to look for an answer to a legal proposition. Possessing soft skills, knowledge of how to use legal search databases such as SCC online, Manupatra etc. Overall the ability to work hard towards completion of an assignment.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Good performance is always noticed and a second application is accepted or a PPO is offered.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    • Have the right kind of attitude towards profession.
    • Money should not be the first criteria in terms of choosing a particular field of law.
    • Give time to your profession and follow your professional ethics.
    • Be persistent and patient. Read a lot.
    • Keep informed about what is happening also at the policy and economic level which has bearing on your field of law.
    • Most importantly, work hard.