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  • Ayesha Nair, Senior Manager-Legal, Hexaware Technologies, on work experience

    Ayesha Nair, Senior Manager-Legal, Hexaware Technologies, on work experience

    Ayesha Nair graduated from Mumbai University in 2004 with a B.LS. LL.B. (Hons.) degree. While in college, she worked as a paralegal trainee with Bilawala & Co., after which she joined Sony Pictures Entertainment as Legal Counsel. Thereafter, she joined Hexaware Technologies Ltd. as a Legal Executive and she currently works as Senior Manager-Legal. In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying at Mumbai University
    • Working at Sony, Hexaware and Lehman Brothers
    • Internship and recruitment tips

     

    How would you describe your legal education? Did your legal education prepare you for the reality of legal practice?

    The legal education I received is the foundation on which my future is built. I would definitely state that the perception of the profession and the education system has changed over the period of years. Students have been keen on exploring other areas of law falling outside the purview of general practice, like corporate laws, intellectual property experts etc. My legal education gave me a better understanding of the actual application of the legal practice in my chosen profession. Having said that, I would also say that one does learn a handful while on the actual job.

     

    You have graduated with B.LS. LLB.(Hons.) degree from Mumbai University in 2004. Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I did the five year law course which was a new option for aspiring lawyers during that time. I would state that it not only allowed me to complete my education a year earlier than what it would have taken me if I did the three year law course after B.A., but also gave me 5 wonderful years in the law college. The Moot courts were an excellent way of motivating students with actual court room scenarios and building their confidence essential for the profession. One lecture and Professor from Government Law College one would never give a miss, I am sure all students from GLC will agree with this one, Prof. Pithawala – Contracts & Company laws. I think this was one subject that gave me insight and focus to pursue corporate law as a profession today.

     

    You started your career at Sony Pictures as Legal Counsel and later joined Hexaware Technologies as a Legal Executive and currently work as Senior Legal Manager Legal there. Please tell us about your journey till now.

    As a matter of fact, my first job was in 2002 while I was completing my law education. I worked as a paralegal trainee with a legal firm – Bilawala & Co., pursuant to that in 2004 I joined Sony Pictures Entertainment as Legal Counsel. However there were not too many legal or complicated issues to handle here. I got my appointment in Hexaware through a Manpower placement agency and was initially appointed as a Legal Executive. The journey from a Legal Executive to being a Senior Manager – Legal meant hard work, sincerity to the profession, responsibility and most importantly the focus to reach where you want to. Subsequently, as the Company progressed, so did my career and I continued to deliver my job with dedication, commitment and customer relations.

     
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    You’ve been at Hexaware for nine years. What would you say has contributed towards your long stay at Hexaware?

    As a matter of fact, I did have a break of a short period in my career at Hexaware. That was when I explored working for a very brief period on the customer front with Lehman Brothers, but the job didn’t raise my adrenalin as much as in Hexaware. The customer front ending, the numerous challenges and the independence to work were all missing. Fortunately for me, Hexaware were unable to get a suitable replacement and they called me back. I was only too happy to rejoin. So in the real sense, if we don’t consider my four months short stint with Lehman Brothers, I will actually complete 10 years with Hexaware.

     

    Tell us what your typical work day is like. What kind of work and responsibilities do you deal with as Senior Manager – Legal? How has the journey at Hexaware been so far?

    We have a very small team of three legal professionals. With the technical title of Senior Manager – Legal, I functionally head the Legal Dept here. I report to the CFO. My colleagues are competent in their work. Basically the Legal team examines the terms and conditions of all contracts that the Company enters into around the world. There are penalty clauses, arbitration arrangements and certain conditions which are stipulated by different customers. Each contract is to be studied separately from the legal angle. Often we are required to directly interact with the Client’s Legal Department to arrive at mutually acceptable conditions. Apart from contracts we look into various other legal issues related to employees, property, intellectual property and litigations to name a few.

     

    What type of cases do you deal with? At Hexaware, how often is legal work outsourced? Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of.

    We primarily deal with corporate laws and contracts, litigations are very rare. Fortunately, we have not lost any contract due to inability to resolve differences with clients and have never endangered the interests of the Company.

    Legal work is outsourced on case to case basis on rare events. I perceive each customer as a critical account and closure of the contracts with each of them brings a sense of pride in me, so it is really difficult to just name one.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    Protection of my employers interests within the legal parameters of the country. I keep myself abreast with the latest industry news and trends through the internet and various legal news letters. For Client counselling, understanding what the customer wants should be the primary focus.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you advise a young associate to deal with them?

    Errors and mistakes do happen in all walks of life. However in the legal profession one has to be extra cautious. If a lawyer is defending a person in Court on a murder charge there is no room for error or mistakes. It could make a difference of life versus death. However in the Corporate world there is one question that the fresher has to learn and retain with him/her during their entire career. Ask yourself that if you were the owner of the Company, what you would have done in a difficult situation that is presented before you. You will always get the correct answer.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship or recruitment at Hexaware? What are the qualities which they look for in one and his/her CV?

    The best approach is to contact the HRD of the Company and ask for permission to submit the CV. One needs to also explain the type of job that he/she is looking for. For freshers, it will obviously be as a trainee only. The CV has to be neatly typed with all the relevant information. A more comprehensive CV is required only when the person is applying for a Senior post.Normally a fresher would needs to keep a watch for vacancies advertised in the newspapers. Manpower placement agencies may not be a good source of employment for freshers.

     

    What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest? How can an intern make a positive impression in the limited time they have? What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    A good impression is created by your presentation. Dress smartly, have a neat and logical CV and keep abreast of the news around the country. The fresher needs to read newspapers every day and watch News programmes on TV. This not only sharpens the mind, but also impresses the interviewer that he is looking at a person who knows what he is talking about. Also never give false information or use guesswork. If you do not know the answer or have not understood the question, they should clearly say so. Speech is also important. As the interview will be in English, the fresher should be proficient in the language.

     

    What do you cherish most about the experiences you’ve had over the past ten years?

    I cherish and value the growth and the challenges that I have lived through each day in the last ten years. The new challenges with a new day give my excitement levels  a new boost.

     

    Any plans for an LL.M abroad? What are your long term goals?

    My focus for the last four years have been on my son and office. I haven’t got the time out, but yes, in the future I wouldn’t mind exploring some other options. One area that interests me is Marine Law.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    Stay focussed, believe in yourself and anything is achievable.

     

  • Dhruv Suri, Principal Associate, PSA Legal, on leading a student organisation, LL.M from Columbia University and work at Law Firms

    Dhruv Suri, Principal Associate, PSA Legal, on leading a student organisation, LL.M from Columbia University and work at Law Firms

    Dhruv Suri graduated from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, New Delhi in 2009. While in college he co-founded a student organization called United Students which initiated the Jessica Lall and Priyadarshini Mattoo campaigns. He was invited by the then President, A.P.J. Abdul Kalam to discuss problems of OBC reservations after receiving his memorandum on the same. He has interned with AZB & Partners and Valeo, Paris. He received a PPO while interning at PSA Legal Counsellors where he was an Associate for four years before opting for an LL.M from Columbia University, New York. He has joined PSA after coming back from Columbia. He is currently a Principal Associate at PSA Legal Counsellors. In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying law at GGSIPU, New Delhi
    • Recruitment and work experience at PSA Legal Counsellors
    • Masters from Columbia University, New York

     

    As an introduction, please tell us about your schooling and how you decided to pursue law.

    I was born and brought up in Delhi and did my schooling from Delhi Public School, Vasant Kunj. I graduated from school in 2003 and was unsure of what I wanted to do. So much so that my family registered me for one of the law entrance exams and I ran away to Mumbai with a friend for a holiday. Of course, that did not go down too well with my family after I came back. When I came back, I took admission in Delhi University where I studied English Hons. for one year. However, for that entire year, all I did was theatre and learn dance. My attendance at college was abysmal! In 2004, I was emotionally blackmailed by my mother to register for the law entrance exams once again on the pretext that I would be given a Maruti 800 to travel to law school and an increment in my pocket money. I fell for it and got an option to study at Amity Law School. Back then, Amity Law School was a building in south Delhi and did not have the atmosphere of a “campus” that I grown accustomed to in my one year at DU. So, I opted for the main Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University law school which seemed like a better option. Rest assured, I got no car and travelled 40kms a day in local Delhi buses. So, this is how my journey with law started- as a “victim” of emotional blackmail from my mother! J

     

    You completed your law degree from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, New Delhi in 2009. What activities were you involved in there? Looking back, is there anything you wish you had done differently?

    The first few years just went by in trying to understand what law is really about. I loved courses like Legal Reasoning, Jurisprudence, History, and Contract law. I also loved mooting and showed up at any and every audition, whether I was prepared or not. I was also very active in the debating society and ensured that I participated in as many competitions as possible. Since our campus was fairly big and had lots of engineering and management colleges as well, there was always some event or the other taking place. By the time I was in my 4th year, debating became a source of extra pocket money.  However, amidst all this, I was also focussed on getting good internships and a job. In fact, if there is any regret that I have, it is that all through my final year I worked after college hours, whereas all my friends were enjoying themselves, going for lunches, movies and ensuring that their last year as a “student” was memorable. When I look back, I could have probably worried less about my career and instead made the most of my final year at law school. Eventually we all had to work but I do feel that I missed out on some fun times with my friends.

     

    You started a student organization called United Students. You contested the Delhi University elections and initiated the Jessica Lall and Priyadarshani Mattoo campaigns. Please tell us more about it.

    United Students happened by pure accident. I was in the latter part of my 2nd year at law school when I met the other founder members of United Students at a coffee shop in central Delhi. I had always been someone who liked to initiate and take the lead in everything I did. The trial court verdict in the Jessica Lall case was out and I was having discussions and debates with people from all quarters about the merits of case, legal arguments advanced, etc. Some common friends connected me to like Aditya Raj Kaul, a young 17 year old (now a popular Times Now reporter), who had started an online campaign in connection with the Priyadarshani Mattoo case. Aditya and I realised how similar we both were and he introduced me to the other founder members. We were all passionate about bringing about a change and decided to collaborate. I think that really was the key reason for launching United Students. We wanted the organization to encourage young Indians, particularly students, to think and debate in a cohesive manner and take up issues of governance. The idea was to engage in discussions and debates, take an informed stand and then take steps on ground to the best of our abilities. I think the legal profession is somewhat similar. Discussions and debates are synonymous with research, which is very important to take a stand and advise the client. As I got busier with law and internships and all other members got more absorbed in their lives, the organization had a natural death. However, the entire experience played a big role in how I evolved as a person and it is something that I will always cherish.

     

    Why didn’t you pursue a career in politics? Do you think you will enter the field again in the future?

    I remember I was doing a shoot for a big news channel during the Delhi University elections and the spokesperson of one of the bigger political parties came to me and asked me to formally join them. I wonder how different life would have been had I actually done that! But on a serious note, I did consider pursuing politics more seriously but was equally eager to graduate and practice law. Who knows, one day I may actually be able to balance a legal and political career!

     

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    During your time at law school, you interned at AZB & Partners, New Delhi and Valeo, Paris. Please describe your experiences.

    All my internship experiences were very rich. At AZB I did my first all-nighter and got a real sense of how corporate law firms work. The lawyers were extremely kind and I am still in touch with some of them. Valeo was great because I got to work in-house and attend lots of business meetings. I realised how a “business lawyer” (whether in-house or external) cannot give pragmatic advice if he/she does not have a sound understanding of the business. This was the biggest take-away from this internship and till date, I try and adopt the same approach while advising clients at PSA. Of course, I got to spend a little less than 3 months in Paris which was fantastic and the first time I stayed by myself. I made sure I saw every bridge, every museum and (almost) ever cafe and bar there.

     

    You also interned at PSA Legal Counsellors and then received a PPO from them. What do the recruiters at PSA look for in potential candidates? How did you secure a PPO?

    One of the most preferred modes of recruiting at PSA is to give offers to final year law students interning at the firm and then training them internally as they grow. The firm encourages building in-house talent.

    In terms of how PSA approaches recruitments of potential candidates, I think it is more or less assumed that a first year associate will not know much about the law. However, she/he should be eager to learn and work hard, and also interact and work well in a team. PSA also believes that before becoming a specialist, it is important to be a good generalist. So, if there is a student who only wishes to work in the area of, say, capital markets or intellectual property or competition, PSA would not be the best place to work. Whereas if someone is keen to do everything and gradually pick areas of interest and focus on them, PSA would be an ideal place for them.

    In my specific instance, I interned with PSA all through my final year at law school. While I was still an intern, I got actively involved in a big PE transaction. The deal was still ongoing when I graduated so I just continued working on it and did not stop. Slowly I got drawn in on a lot of other matters and before I realised, I had spent almost 5 years at the firm!

     

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    Upon graduating, you started working at PSA as an Associate. What was your work profile like?

    Like I mentioned, at PSA, you do everything in your first year. So, my work profile was nothing different. I was actively working on a PE deal, but also assisting the senior lawyers in day-to-day corporate advisory, researching for litigation matters, working on intellectual property queries and even drafting board minutes and incorporating companies. Gradually the work becomes more sophisticated and challenging but the basic training I got in my first year continues to be invaluable and (I’d like to believe) set a strong foundation. Before I left for my LL.M in 2013, I was working on sophisticated M&A transactions, advising large conglomerates on complex legal queries pertaining to contracts, IP, tax, employment etc. and arguing matters before the Competition Commission of India.

     

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    After four years at PSA, you opted for an LL.M from Columbia University, New York. How did you secure your admission at Columbia? What was your specialisation?

    So, Columbia and Harvard are two schools that I know do not offer a specialised LL.M. In fact, even as a matter of personal preference, I did not want to do a super specialised LL.M. The application process was exhausting and almost impossible to manage with long work hours. I took 10 days off in October 2012 to work on my applications and finalized as many as I could. Even the 10 days were not enough and I spent a lot of weekends on my personal statement and other school-specific essays that were required. Now when I look back, I am so glad I put in that effort because Columbia really is one of the best things that ever happened to me! Plus I got to live in New York which just takes the LL.M experience to a whole new level.

    With respect to courses, there was a fair bit of flexibility so I made sure I had a variety on my plate. Some of my courses were “Strategic International Commercial Transactions,” “Financial Statement Analysis,” “Intellectual Property Drafting,” “Negotiations,” “Corporations,” etc. All of them were taught by top-notch professors who made studying such a pleasure, an area where, in my opinion, Indian law schools have a lot of catching up to do.

     

    You also worked as a Research Assistant for Professor Anu Bradford in the field of antitrust laws. On what basis were you chosen for the project? How was the experience?

    I have always been very interested in competition/antitrust law. During my first month at Columbia, we received an e-mail that Professor Anu Bradford was looking for LL.M research assistants to work in the field of antitrust law. I think I drafted a short cover e-mail and sent my CV within 5 minutes of receiving the e-mail. Professor Bradford called me for an interview and soon I started working for her. The experience was so enriching because the work she asked me to do involved coding antitrust laws of multiple countries (including India) and understanding key differences in how statutes are drafted across those jurisdictions with respect to restrictive agreements, cartels, abuse of dominance, etc.. The work gave me a deep and detailed understanding of antitrust laws. Plus, she is one of the most wonderful people I know and mentored me throughout the time I was at Columbia. I am just glad I got to work with her.

     

    Is it better to pursue an LL.M right after college or after working for a few years?

    This is a question that a lot of people aspiring to do an LL.M ask. Honestly, I don’t think it has a right answer. A lot of my friends went for their LL.M immediately after completing law school but I chose to go after gathering some work experience. Specifically for Columbia, which has an extremely competitive curriculum, it is rare for them to admit anybody with less than 2 years of work experience. Of course, there are exceptions. Based on my experience, I do think that work experience comes in very handy, especially when you are learning about a different legal system. You are definitely wiser and more mature to gauge concepts by linking them to your practical experience. Plus, you also tend to make a lot more of your degree by networking professionally, which, I think, can be challenging if you have never worked before.

     

    Do you think the LL.M has improved your career prospects? Do you have larger responsibilities at PSA now?

    The LL.M has definitely helped me a lot. If I had to point out one thing, it has made me surer of my work and more confident in my interactions with clients, both Indians and foreigners. In terms of my profile, I am now a Principal Associate at the firm and manage PSA’s start-up/PE/VC practice which is extremely exciting because I interact and work with dynamic start-ups and very passionate entrepreneurs.  While I continue to do legal work, a lot of my time and energy is also spent on business development, which I thoroughly enjoy. So clearly, the responsibilities have increased and the concept of weekends has dissolved. I have to be on top of whatever I am working on all 7 days a week and I actually prefer it like that.

     

    Lastly, what advice would you give to law students wishing to pursue a career in corporate law and considering doing an LL.M?

    I would say that, make sure you do internships in law firms in your 4th and 5th year and be proactive when working. I enjoy working with interns who are eager to learn, proactively follow-up with me and don’t hesitate to take responsibility of their work. It is a good opportunity for you to demonstrate your attitude towards work. Also, be prepared to do any and all kinds of work. You will realise much later how the most minuscule things you worked on as an intern or first year associate come in handy during negotiations or drafting contracts. So, approach work with an open mind. Finally, if you plan to do a LL.M, my advice usually is to work for 2-3 years. It will really change your perspective and you will be able to make the most out of your academic courses and the overall LL.M experience.

    In the end, I would just say that work hard but make sure you enjoy your student life as well. That time (unless you do your LL.M) will not return. Good luck!

     

  • Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar is currently an Associate at J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, and simultaneously earned his Company Secretary degree. His internships include Tata Motors Limited, P&C Legal and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He has also completed a Diploma Course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Law, followed by the Advanced Certificate Course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from the Indian Merchants’ Chamber. In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics and co-curricular activities at GLC, Mumbai
    • Internship, recruitment and work at corporate law firms
    • Pursuing a C.S. degree along with LL.B studies

     

    Our readers consist of law aspirants, law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Firstly, thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story. This interview is going to be an experience in itself as I am usually the listener and the one who asks questions.

    I rocketed to Earth as Ronak Thakkar. I’m a corporate lawyer, 23 years old, currently working in Mumbai (Bombay, for those who prefer it that way). I am passionate about law, live life with an open, accepting mindset and am always up for a high five.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    I was blessed with a very good childhood and was fortunate to have caring and supportive parents. I was a last bencher at St. Pius X High School, an all-boys school. As you’ve guessed it right, the energy and the adrenaline rush were really high.

    Honestly speaking, school has been one of the best phases I have lived through so far. I guess the feeling is the same for all of us. I have learnt a lot, made many friends and it has definitely been the foundation stone to the positive attitude with which I stand in front of you guys today. About my educational qualification, I am a law graduate from Government Law College, Mumbai.

    I am a first generation Superlawyer. I also don’t have a surname that is well-established in the fraternity.

     

    In India there is bit of resistance towards legal education even now. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I don’t personally feel that there is any resistance towards legal education now. I think students in India today are more than happy to take up law mainly because law offers you many opportunities to do your best in your chosen interest areas. The Government is doing a lot to promote legal education and make it more accessible. In GLC there is about 50% reservation for students who belong to eligible quotas like SC/ST, sports, cultural etc. and these opportunities are being utilised.  I don’t think there is any resistance.

    As far my motivation to take up law and pursue law as a career is concerned, it was simple. I could relate to it more than anything else and definitely relate to it more than I could relate to K4Fe(CN)6 + H2SO4 + H2O = K2SO4 + FeSO4 + (NH4)2SO4 + CO.

    According to me law helps you to find solutions in real life situations and is a very practical subject. I felt that by doing law I will be standing for a purpose/cause and will work towards achieving it. Therefore I took it up.

    Curiosity is the word. Law is interesting; I felt I wanted to know more. I was sure that I will be better as a lawyer than a dentist or an engineer. It wasn’t very difficult to take that decision then.

     

    How did you get through to GLC, Mumbai?

    I was a science student before I took up law. I was weak with numbers, never got my chemical equations right. I had realised that I had failed to make the right choice. I was about to waste a year because it was a bit late by the time I decided to do law and GLC was the only college I was able to apply to.

    While going through the admission process, I learnt that in order to get through GLC, your HSC percentage is taken into account and you are not required to give CLAT which was motivating considering that I had not given the CLAT.

    I am very happy that I got through and was a part of this excellent institution.

     

    Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree? What about co-curricular activities?

    I enjoyed Company law, Banking laws and Constitutional law. I contributed to the Magazine Committee of GLC in my first year.  I moved on to learn German and Japanese in my second year as learning new languages and networking are my hobbies.

    I felt that much of the law related to people and their dealings with each other, and it was crucial to understand thought processes and society to be able to work towards solving social problems. Therefore, I took up voluntary community service at the Indian Red Cross Society, Mumbai and was a part of some of their programs.

    I became a part of AIESEC, Mumbai in 2011, a branch of the world’s largest youth run organization, AIESEC International which gave me an opportunity to network and facilitate student exchanges with partner countries. It was a very positive experience as AIESEC always welcomed new ideas, promoted teamwork and leadership. As an AIESEC Organizing Committee member for “Balakalakaar 2011” I worked towards empowering under-privileged children and was instrumental in giving them a platform to showcase their talents.

    In my final year of law school, I was an active member of the GLC Students Council, the apex student body where I worked towards organizing events and promoting various initiatives for the welfare of college.

     

    Tell us about the places you have interned at. Did you plan your internships throughout law school?

    I did not plan my internships. As a part of my C.S. coursework, I had to do a compulsory internship for which I approached ICSI, my C.S. Institute to know how to go about the internships. Based on their guidance, I applied to companies and procured my first internship at Tata Motors Limited where I did a mix of corporate secretarial and legal work.

    As I discovered that I am more inclined towards corporate and transactional legal work, I asked some of my friends to suggest good law firms where I can learn more. After doing a bit of research online, I was able to contact the H.R. departments of these firms and submit my resume for their consideration. That’s how I procured my internships at P&C Legal, Mumbai and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I found it quite relevant. A law school curriculum is designed to cover everything that a law student ‘must’ know before he/she starts practice. Working on a transaction/matter will teach you more about the practical application of law to transactions/matters. But from an academic standpoint, I feel the education was very relevant to prepare one for the practicalities.

     

    You also managed to pursue the Company Secretary course. Tell us how did you manage it with college?

    In my first year, I saw a few students from my college applying for it. So I walked up to one of them and asked them about the course. I was told it is “core corporate law”. So I went up to www.icsi.edu to find out more and was convinced to pursue it.

    Initially it was more like following the rat race but as I discovered that I was more interested in corporate transactional work, I continued with the course and it was very helpful academically as it had important insights on subjects like mergers and acquisitions, securities law etc. which were not covered by my law school curriculum but were otherwise very relevant.

    As regards, how I managed to do it with college, I have a secret formula which is – “Be humble, hungry and the hardest worker in the room”.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined J. Sagar Associates as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How was your interview? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    I applied to work with J. Sagar Associates after I completed my internship. My appointment was based on a review of my performance as an intern with the firm. My interview was a formal one and was focused on confirming my resume and ensuring that I knew what I was talking about from a “technical” standpoint.

    The interview was also about finding out if I am the right fit for the position or culture at J. Sagar Associates.

    I haven’t faced many interviews, but if I were to highlight some important points for applicants to keep in mind while applying for a job, they would be:

    Research about the law firm where you wish to apply.

    Make an effort to really understand what the firm’s expectations are of you and whether you will be in a position to meet them.

    Know your career narrative well. The career narrative must be easy to remember and retell. It should meaningfully link your past successes to your near and long-term development needs and suggest the kinds of assignments that would help to achieve those objectives It must hang together with the right combination of honesty, humility, and personal flavour.

     

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    How tough were the first six months at your workplace?

    They were not tough or difficult. J. Sagar Associates (JSA) has a very positive, supportive and friendly work environment. I have helpful team members and well-informed, accessible partners who guide me so that I can deliver my best. This is actually very encouraging and has motivated me to learn more and get better on the job.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with and what a typical day is like. What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    I am entrusted mainly with transactional and advisory work. My practice areas are private equity, mergers & acquisitions, banking & finance. I also work on general corporate commercial matters and am involved in drafting, negotiating and reviewing a variety of commercial and financing contracts.

    In my view, the most challenging aspect of my job is time management. There are deadlines to matters and it is important to be responsive to clients. When you are on multiple active transactions it becomes a bit challenging to balance between long work hours and one’s personal life.

     

    Do your dual qualifications complement each other in terms of your work?

    Yes to an extent. The qualifications have helped me to understand concepts better and gain much needed academic exposure before facing a practical transaction/situation.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job in a top tier law firm?

    My personal view is that a high CGPA is definitely an important reflection of your academic performance, but it is not the only parameter on which your capabilities to be a part of the top tier law firm are adjudged.

    If your CGPA dropped because you were involved in extracurricular activities due to which you weren’t able to devote sufficient time to your studies in a particular semester, that doesn’t mean you are not a performer. But it surely means that you are a multitasker!

     

    You did a Diploma course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Laws. Tell us about the course structure and the utility of pursuing such Diploma courses beside studies.

    The course gives you knowledge about the information technology laws of the country and how e-commerce is regulated in India. For more information on such courses please visit: asianlaws.org. The Asian School of Cyber Laws is doing a really good job. There are tutorials conducted to make you understand the subjects in detail, the study material is helpful and exams are open book.

    I personally feel that the IT law practice is still in its developing stages in India. And from what I foresee, we are being increasingly driven by technology in our personal and professional lives with each passing day. It is naturally important to know how the law relating to technology is and will be regulated.

     

    You have also pursued an Advanced Certificate course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from Indian Merchants Chamber. What was this course all about? Do you think pursuing this kind of professional courses help?

    India holds an integral part and has an important position in the global economy today. Naturally, there are going to be many cross border transactions and opportunities coming to our doorstep. As a lawyer, one will be required to work/advise on these transactions.

    The Advanced Certificate course in Foreign/International Trade course gave an overview of export-import and commercial transactions, documentation and more importantly about the foreign trade policy and the Foreign Exchange Management Act. These are key regulatory areas which will be very important to take into account if you were working or advising on a cross border transaction.

    These subjects were not covered in sufficient detail in my law school curriculum and therefore I felt the need do this course.  You can know more about the courses offered at the Indian Merchants Chamber website.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now? Would you consider going for an LL.M. abroad?

    I don’t make five year plans. I have my fingers crossed and hope that I should be doing well five years down the line.

    Yes, I might consider doing an LL.M if I manage to get a scholarship.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to get placed in a law firm?

    I believe that ‘effort motivates accomplishment’ and if you work towards something you want in the right manner, you will achieve it. There is a Superlawyer in each of us. Find what you love to do, and just give your best.

    Firms will be more than willing to welcome you if you are good. People at firms are sweet, trust me!

    I am reachable at LinkedIn and Facebook in case anyone needs to get in touch. I take this opportunity to wish law students all the very best and I will be the happiest to know about their success stories.

     

  • Nirupama Jayasimha, Associate, Telecom Media Tech team, Trilegal, on work and LL.M from Stanford Univ

    Nirupama Jayasimha, Associate, Telecom Media Tech team, Trilegal, on work and LL.M from Stanford Univ

    Nirupama Jayasimha is a graduate from Bangalore University batch 2003-2008. Currently she is an associate at Trilegal, working in the Telecom, Media, Tech team. She has had a brief stint with Infosys and then she worked at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati. She has completed her LL.M. from Standford University.  She has also been an Exchange Student at Université Paris X Nanterre. She shares her experience as an Exchange Student and tells us why and how an exchange programme is beneficial for a law student.

    She tells us about JN Tata scholarship application and other procedures for further studies abroad. She also talks about the job opportunities available overseas.

     

    Though it’s one of the most cliché question, but yet, why law? What were your areas of interest while you were studying law?

    I come from a family of eminent lawyers and engineers. Dinner time conversations were filled with stories from the court or the latest developments in technology. This led to an interest in these fields from a very early age. My father thought I would make a better lawyer and persuaded me to take law. In the meantime, the growth of IT in Bangalore presented a unique opportunity to work at the cusp of law and technology. Most of my internships were in the legal departments of technology companies to help me understand the fundamentals of technology, business and its interaction with law.

     

    You have been a part of Université Paris X Nanterre as an Exchange Student. How do you think such exchange programmes are beneficial for a law student? Tell us about your experience there.

    When I signed up for the exchange program, apart from getting to live in Paris without paying for it, I couldn’t think of a single way the exchange program would benefit me. If anything, it seemed like opening a Pandora’s box. I had to attend classes and take exams in a language I didn’t understand well, the college administration was not sure if the courses taken in Paris would count towards graduation and I had to live away from home for eight months which I had never done before. Call it adrenaline rush, or the compulsion to be different, I just signed-up for the program. Apart from learning enough French for a lifetime, there were no immediate benefits I saw from the exchange program. It’s only much later that I reaped the benefits. While at Infosys, I worked closely with clients in France and having an idea of civil law and French was an added advantage. It may have influenced my admission to Stanford as I was one of two students in my university to have done the program. Even today, the networks I cultivated have stood me in good stead. So, I guess, my advice to anybody who wants to take up an exchange program is to go for it! Like Steve Jobs said “its only when you look back that you will be able to connect the dots”.

     

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    You have studied LL.M from Stanford University, through the J.N Tata Scholarship. Tell us in detail about the application procedure for the JN Tata scholarships and other such scholarships.

    The J.N Tata scholarship requires applicants to submit a personal statement along with their application. Based on the strength of the application, candidates are shortlisted for an interview in Bombay. Candidates are interviewed by a subject-matter expert from their particular background for an hour. A week after the interview, successful applicants are intimated by mail. The final distribution of the scholarships is at a ceremony held at the Bombay House (where you may have a chance to meet Ratan Tata!). The ceremony is also attended by scholarship alumni and distinguished members of the Tata Group.

    The Stanford acceptance letter comes out well past the deadline for most scholarship applications. I just made it in time for the JN Tata scholarship and that’s only because an extension was granted! However, there are a few scholarships that you can apply prior to sending out your college applications. Applying to these will ensure you don’t lose sleep after receiving the acceptance letter.

    In terms of the selection process for the JN Tata Scholarship, it is hard to give a definitive answer of the traits required to bag the scholarship. My advice is that it is good to spend a few days thinking about why you want to do a LL.M, how you would use it to further your career and the interests of the society at large and then present it in your application in a compelling way. This is the most important question any scholarship panel asks and is also a defining part of the application you submit to colleges.

     

    How was your experience with faculty and academics at Stanford University?

    As a law student, I spent a lot of time reading and thinking about technology law issues like net-neutrality, P2P sharing, patent trolls, dispute resolution in e-commerce. Quite naturally, the opportunity to study at Stanford, at the bleeding edge of all the action, was an exciting prospect. And I was not disappointed at all. The Socratic method of teaching is crafted towards making you evaluate these issues by questioning the fundamentals. In addition, hearing perspectives from competing stakeholders on issues they deal with on a daily basis makes you appreciate and understand the different facets of the issue. For instance, in a panel discussion onP2P sharing, we had the ex-CEO of Napster, Hank Barry on the panel and a lawyer from Viacom. Meeting such stalwarts on a daily basis inspired me to contribute to the evolution of technology law in a meaningful way.

     

    How is the recruitment/ placement situation for overseas students?

    Well, it’s not easy to find a job. If you are looking to do an LL.M just so you may work in the US, then it may not be a wise decision. To land a job in the US, an extensive network of contacts will take you much further than a LL.M degree. When you interview for jobs after your LL.M, you are competing with JD’s. A law firm will not want to pick you ahead of a JD unless you have something a JD doesn’t. More often than not, that X-factor could be your ability to bring in work from your home country. As a general observation, I found that the network one has built in India is the most effective tool to land a job in the US.

     

    How did you get a job as a foreign legal specialist in Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati? What kind of work did you come across?

    My boss during my stint at Infosys, Samuel Mani generously referred me to a partner at Wilson with whom he worked closely. At Wilson, I worked with the Technology Transaction team which primarily worked in representing technology companies in business transactions driven by the development, use, acquisition, or divestiture of intellectual property, including licensing, mergers and acquisitions and public and private offerings. The most interesting piece of work I was involved in was preparing a memorandum for the Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher foundation on the ethics of web scraping to help prevent child trafficking. Additionally being from India, I helped in cross-border transactions involving Indian clients.

     

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    Is it easy to have a work-life balance in this profession?

    I think you need to identify as early as possible, the things important to you in life and then prioritize them accordingly. For me, health, family and work are the top priorities. The most important of course is to maintain a healthy lifestyle, without which one can neither do justice to work (no pun intended!) nor spend quality time with your family. If one is disciplined, it is not hard to set aside an hour everyday for some sort of physical activity. I also don’t let work get in the way of having timely meals. As for prioritizing between family and work, it is very contextual and one cannot blindly prioritize one over the other. There are times when you may need to give up working on an important deal because you have a prior family commitment, and there are times when you have to miss a family event because you are committed to closing a deal. I think planning and being organized helps a lot in navigating this tightrope. It is also important that people at work respect your priorities and that people at home understand. I have been lucky to have a very supportive family, and colleagues at work who understand the importance of striking a work-life balance.

     

    Is there any success mantra that you follow which you would like to share with our readers?

    Howard Roark, in Fountain Head (which is my favorite book of all time) says,

    “I have, let’s say, sixty years to live. Most of that time will be spent working. I’ve chosen the work I want to do. If I find no joy in it, then I’m only condemning myself to sixty years of torture. And I can find the joy only if I do my work in the best way possible to me.”

    This really sums up what I believe. Any work you choose to do, do it to the best of your ability. The rest will take care of itself!

     

  • Sumeeta Sharma, DGM Legal, Benett Coleman & Co., on work experience at Law firms and as in-house counsel

    Sumeeta Sharma, DGM Legal, Benett Coleman & Co., on work experience at Law firms and as in-house counsel

    Sumeeta Sharma is a graduate from K.C. Law College, 2003 batch. Her work experience has been diverse including litigation firms like Sharma and Associates, Vyas and Bhalwal and M/s. Thakore Jariwala and Associates. Thereafter she was an Associate at Krishna and Saurastri, an IPR firm. She was also the Legal and Secretarial Head at Samsonite South Asia Pvt. Ltd. before becoming DGM Legal at Bennett Coleman and Co. Ltd. (Times Group). She has recently completed Masters in Business Law from National Law School of India University, Bangalore.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • The importance of internships
    • Working at litigation firms, IPR firms and in the corporate sector
    • Working at Bennett Coleman & Co.

     

    What got you into legal studies? Was it planned or something that just happened by chance?

    My father has been in this profession and I was always inspired by his way of life.I was often recognized as a person with good debating skills and somewhere deep down I felt I can be a good lawyer. Though it was not planned and I wanted to be a scientist, I feel extremely lucky that I actually could take up a profession which was crafted for my personality. I would say that being a lawyer was my calling.

     

    How was your experience at K.C. Law College? What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    The experience with college was good and K.C. Law College per se conducts lots of activities for young aspiring lawyers to instil the love and passion for the profession. Yes, a couple of writing competitions and moot courts were the activities I was involved in.

     

    What were your major interests as a student of law?

    My interest was in Intellectual Property Laws, Laws with respect to Medicine (Medical Laws) and of course, laws with respect to the family. I would suggest young lawyers to take up criminal law, personal laws (family law, succession laws) as there seems to be great change required in the age old formulas and I feel if young lawyers take up these subjects not only can they  explore a lot, but also contribute in amendments by questioning the very basics of old fundamentals.

     

    How important is it for a law student to plan out the course of his/her internships to successfully gain from the internship experience?

    Every lawyer should start internships right at the start, if they cannot spare more time, at least 4 hours a day. It is extremely important to get your basics strengthened right at the start. Law taught in class and court room working is completely different from each other. Thus, I pay a lot of importance on internships. I would suggest young aspiring lawyers to start with a small time lawyer (younger lot) rather than opting from bigger law firms as they may not be able to teach the core working of the court. So, I suggest they should approach their seniors from the college and request for internships. Once you have interned with such independent practising lawyers and the basics are already in place then the students should approach bigger firms.

     

    Many believe that students of ‘elite’ law schools have an edge over students from other colleges? Is this true at all?

    Yes, that is completely true. However, most students from elite colleges end up in the corporate sector with firms barely into transactional work. We have not seen many students from these elite colleges taking up litigation as their career. I feel there is a dearth of good quality lawyers in litigation, thus every lawyer should opt for litigation as their career.

     

    After graduation you worked with various litigation firms including Sharma and Associates, Vyas and Bhalwal and M/s. Thakore Jariwala & Associates. How was your experience working at these places?

    I always wanted to be a Generalist and wanted to know various things in one lifetime. Thus, I worked with various law firms in different specialities. As stated earlier, litigation firms are run on age old formulas thus the experience was enriching and I gained a lot from the pool of knowledge these firms hold.

     

    Thereafter you had joined Krishna and Saurastri as an Associate. What led to the shift from litigation to an IPR law firm? How was your experience working there?

    As I said, I had to taste law in its different form. The experience was enriching as I was exposed to the dynamically changing IPR norms globally. My experience was fantastic and created an interest and love for IPR Laws.

     

    You thereafter left Krishna and Saurastri to start working at as Legal & Secretarial Head. What does Samsonite do and what was the nature of your work there?

    Post Krishna and Saurastri, I started working as a legal counsel with Financial Technologies. FT and Samsonite both gave me an opportunity to learn the workings from the corporate end. Thus, it’s not only about thinking as a lawyer but also as a business personnel ensuring the company’s interests are legally well taken care of and helping the business accelerate.

     

    Currently you work as DGM Legal at Bennett Coleman and Co. Ltd. (Times Group). How did the switch from Samsonite take place?

    The Switch was smooth and as I said, I wanted to be a generalist, thus I opted to gain experience with different business sectors.

     

    Please tell us the recruitment process at Bennett Coleman and Co. Ltd. What do they look for in their prospective employees?

    The typical process takes 2 to 3 months and comprises 3 interviews (HR, Reporting Manager and the Business Head). They look for domain knowledge primarily.

     

    What does your current work profile at Bennett Coleman consist of?

    My current work profile at Bennett comprises mainly of (70 percent) transactional work and the rest is litigation and IPR.

     

    Does Bennett Coleman and Co. Ltd. take interns? What is the process for same?

    Yes, you may apply or request various legal heads. (Bennett is segregated into various companies and each company functions separately)

     

    What would be your parting message for our readers?

    Read as much as you can. Don’t try to mug. Law is nothing but common sense and once you read and analyse things will automatically come to you. Always take guidance from experienced personnel and buckle up for a tough ride if you want to be a good lawyer as first 5 to 6 years are your investment with absolutely no returns.

     

  • Raghavan Ramabadran, Partner, Service Tax & VAT matters, Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan, on being a Chartered Accountant and Lawyer

    Raghavan Ramabadran, Partner, Service Tax & VAT matters, Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan, on being a Chartered Accountant and Lawyer

    Mr. Raghavan Ramabadran is a Partner at Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan. He currently heads the Service Tax and VAT practice of the Chennai and Hyderabad branches of LKS. He pursued a C.A. degree while simultaneously pursuing a B.Com course from Vivekananda College. His interest in taxation led him to join LKS after qualifying as a C.A. He further pursued a law degree from Law Centre II of Faculty of Law, Delhi University (“LCII”) while working at LKS itself.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • The LL.B and C.A. combination
    • Pursuing a law degree while working
    • Work of a Partner of Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan

     

    Where did you grow up and attend school? How did you decide to pursue C.A.? Please tell us a bit about yourself.

    I did my schooling in Chennai. I belong to a family full of Sanskrit scholars. In fact, my grandfather is a President’s awardee for excellence in Sanskrit. As a kid I was taught Sanskrit and Vedas. I had in fact completed my Vedic education by the time I finished my XII standard. Though I was always good in Mathematics, Science was not a subject which interested me and hence I chose to pursue a career in accountancy and enrolled myself in the C.A. course while simultaneously pursuing my B. Com course from Vivekananda College. I was always interested in taxes and once I completed my C.A. course, I applied to L&S. After joining L&S I realised how important it is to learn law to fully understand and work in taxes. Mr. Lakshmikumaran and Mr. Sridharan were very kind to me and took me to the Delhi Office for better exposure which also enabled me to attend the evening law course in Delhi University.

     

    After qualifying as a C.A., you joined Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan. How did you decide to join a law firm instead of practicing as a C.A.?

    As I said, I was always interested in taxes and one of my friends (who is also a C.A.) had already joined L&S. So I knew it was a great firm doing excellent service in the field of taxes. Hence, the choice was easy. I had applied to the firm. I was interviewed by Mr. Lakshmikumaran. The interview happened over several rounds and I was also asked to present a paper on Transfer pricing and the GATT Valuation Code.

    The firm already had the practice of hiring non-lawyers and therefore I was not an exception. Mr. Lakshmikumaran encouraged me to do law and explained to me how the scope of a C.A. is restricted as he cannot practise in High Courts.

    I realised that though a C.A. can render excellent advice, it is ultimately a lawyer whom he has to engage to sustain his advice before a court of law.

     

    What did your work profile at LKS consist of, before you were a lawyer?

    I was doing a lot of drafting which includes opinions, replies, appeals, writs, SLPs, etc. I used to do research and brief seniors in matters. Study sessions are a part of L&S culture and I was a regular in attending those. I was initially absorbed in the Customs team of L&S. Later when L&S started its practice in VAT, I was moved to the VAT Team. I was working in the VAT team till I became a lawyer.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience.

    When I look back at my years at LC-II, they were perhaps some of the best years of my life where I came across many intelligent and dynamic batchmates. The professors were very engaging and the curriculum was rigorous and very demanding. Everyday offered a new perspective on one’s approach to appreciating the law. Whatever I say about LC-II and its quality of education and the faculty, will be very little as its reputation speaks for itself.

    Perhaps, it would be interesting to mention here that the courses taught at law school helped me at the workplace too. At the time when the seminal BSNL case was being argued at the Supreme Court, in which L&S was substantially invested, I could appreciate and contribute to the table some of the finer aspects concerning the constitutionality of the provisions that were being debated upon.

     

    Is there anything you would like to have done differently?

    There is nothing that I would have liked to do differently. Looking back, I think what matters the most is how you allow the experience to enrich you and not overwhelm you. The sheer diversity of the people you meet and the insights you develop on life allow you to become a more practical individual, in a manner of speaking.

     

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    How did you manage to eke out time for a regular three-year LL.B from LC-II while working at LKS? Please share with us.

    If you don’t have time in the day, steal it from night. Needless to say, switching back and forth from office to college was a demanding affair indeed. The tight schedule would otherwise be a strain on a normal individual. But maybe, it was the hunger for experience and knowledge that kept me going those years.

    The daily schedule involved coming in to the office by 7:50 A.M. From 8 A.M.-10 A.M. I would attend sales tax study sessions chaired by Mr. Sridharan himself. This was a ritual I stuck to for one and a half years, and it paid off greatly. Regular work would follow this until evening when I would scamper off to college and again head back to office to take care of pending work. Many a times, in fact most often, I would sleepover at the office lobby. Suffice  to say, this was occasionally tiring but never did I feel flushed or demotivated.

     

    You have more than a decade of experience in handling litigation relating to Service Tax, VAT and other areas of indirect taxes before various forums. What were the differences in your experience as a CA and as a lawyer?

    Completely different. As a lawyer, you can rely on yourself to sustain your interpretation. For a CA, there would be a two-step process to take a legal point across, one to the arguing counsel and the final one to the judge. Whereas for a lawyer, there is only one level to convince, the judge and not the arguing counsel.

    As a C.A., our exposure to law was oriented to the extent of appreciating the application of the law. However, being a lawyer one can delve into the correctness, spirit of the law and formulate its ethics and justifiability. As a C.A., we could hardly acknowledge the fine line of difference between a rule and provision. While studying law, the questioning spirit came alive.

     

    Currently, you head the Service Tax & VAT practice of the Chennai and Hyderabad branches of LKS. What are the best and worst parts of being a partner at one of the most successful tax law firms in the country?

    The best part easily is the bench strength at the firm. A multitude of good clients, refined nature of the tasks, variety in the kind of deliverables, priority on ethics are some of the traits that would easily attract anyone to the firm. The knowledge chest that L&S has is in its people, be it in excise law or patent prosecution. Other than this, the resources in the form of a heavily standardized information technology system, books, journals, credible physical infrastructure offers one an experience worth its weight in gold.

    The challenging part, and definitely not the worst part, is that the benchmark is very high. There are a lot of expectations to be met. Arguably though, this is something that is expected with the responsibility of being a partner at a leading law firm.

    Pondering over mystical questions like “work life balance” takes a back seat as these are questions that I do not find myself philosophically qualified to answer. Other than this, there are always the clients who keep calling at unexpected hours, which is why I am always nervous whenever my phone battery runs out, lest I miss out on an important call. The work profile for a partner is expectedly very demanding as one has to always stay sharp and alert. But all of this being said, we relished it and continue to do so.

     

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    What is a workday like for you? Has work settled into a predictable pattern or are there new challenges every day?

    For a litigating lawyer, I can say that being officers of the court, we are at the mercy and behest of the court. There is no method to this madness, Ha Ha!

    On a serious note, it is always unpredictable. Appointments given to clients during the evening materialize, but where I commit to a meeting during the daytime thinking I may be able to fend some time for it, such is never the case, Add to this the usual rigours of urgent briefs, shuttling between various courts. They tend to take a toll on the body at times.

    The highlight is that being in L&S, repeat matters don’t come. The scope and dimensions of the work is new and it is a treat to get one’s hands on them. Challenging matters are a staple affair and therefore it would be fair to say that there is a negligible chance of having a predictable pattern in terms of work coming in.

     

    How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles in a corporate law firm?

    Very crucial. Clients always have alternatives.

     

    What do you and other partners at LKS measure success by? What must interns and attorneys at LKS do in order to get noticed and/or promoted?

    Show spark. Season that with clarity of thought. L&S encourages an open-door policy and there is complete freedom to speak and express one’s views. The only touchstone that someone’s worth is judged by is sheer merit and hard work. We don’t expect interns and fresher attorneys to be ready for the work profile that comes with working at L&S. Which is why we lay emphasis on training in our daily class-room lectures. We encourage interns and juniors to bring fresh and novel thinking to the table. With commitment and analytical skills to show for it, success can definitely be achieved.

     

    What advice would you give to law students who wish to pursue C.A. or, alternatively, C.A. students who wish to pursue law?

    While you focus on your areas of interest, make sure you pass all the subjects. Ha Ha!

    What I meant to say is that if you intend to be a lawyer in the future, pursue those subjects in CA in which you plan to make a living in. C.A. background for becoming a lawyer is very useful. Accounting knowledge and commercial understanding of the transaction are traits that come in very handy in both transactional practice and tax litigation. My view is that such an academic profile is a potent combination, especially when it comes to leaving a mark in the realm of commercial laws.

     

    Lastly, what would be your advice to law students and young lawyers reading this interview?

    What you learn as a student stays in your mind forever. It is important as a student to try and understand the basics of every subject. With experience, we realize that no law is difficult if our basics are strong. Great lawyers are those whose basics are phenomenal and they never commit mistakes in basics. Rather they win complicated cases with basics.

  • Adithya Banavar, Senior Associate, McKinsey, NY, on the job of a management consultant

    Adithya Banavar, Senior Associate, McKinsey, NY, on the job of a management consultant

    Adithya Banavar is currently a Senior Associate at McKinsey, New York. He graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2011 and then joined McKinsey’s office in Chennai for two years. He was subsequently transferred to McKinsey’s New York office in 2013 as a Business Analyst. He was promoted to Senior Associate in July, 2014. His achievements during law school include being in the top 16 of the prestigious Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Court Competition, Vienna.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Experiencing law school at NLSIU, Bangalore
    • Mooting and in particular, Willem C. Vis, Vienna
    • Working at McKinsey, New York

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I am currently a Senior Associate at McKinsey in New York. I graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2011 and then joined McKinsey’s office in Chennai for two years. In August 2013, I got transferred to McKinsey’s New York office where I continued as a Business Analyst. In July 2014 I was promoted to Senior Associate.

    Both my parents are lawyers and that was basically where the idea of law school came from. By the time I was done with my 12th, I had decided that I wanted nothing to do with engineering. At that time it seemed like a good idea for me to actually start doing something different, and hence, law.

    I came to know of NLS through my father who used to be a visiting professor there and has had a long standing association with the University. I wrote the entrance exams for NLS, NALSAR and NUJS. I got through NLS with a rank of 48 but as far as NUJS was concerned, my name was at the very bottom of the list!  I chose NLS mostly on account of it being closer to home.

     

    Given that a significant number of our readers are law school students, would you please tell us a little about your law school days at NLSIU, Bangalore?

    My experience at NLS was a little different from the typical NLS experience because I was a localite. I was more of a day scholar and didn’t stay at the hostels often. Accordingly, I had a lot less excitement in my life compared to my batch mates who lived on campus.

    Overall, the real value lies in the ecosystem that NLS creates, apart from the conventional classroom curriculum. It gives you an opportunity to do whatever you want, whether it is a moot or starting up your own eatery like Bhukkad for instance. The peer crowd around you is what makes the experience special. NLS is structured to support this. Classes start at 8:50 am in the morning and end at 1.30pm so the rest of the day is open for you to explore your wide array of interests. It makes a student understand that academics is only a part of a holistic education.

    Personally, I am a huge fan of the trimester system. I think it works really well. You have four subjects so you can clearly focus your attention. There are a few days where things could get a little intense (night before the exams!) but most of the time, you actually have time to yourself. It also gives you a very good balance of subjects. When you are studying Sociology and Economics, you are also studying Legal Methods. You see how the latter plays a role in both Sociology and Economics. Law is not something you can study in a vacuum without a broader social context and I feel the trimester system allows you to get deep into a couple of areas and truly understand the interdependencies.

    NLS also offers numerous avenues to put the law into action. I was part of two of them during my time in law school. The Legal Services Clinic (which I was a joint convenor of) has a dual mission of (i) providing legal aid to those who cannot afford it and (ii) spreading legal awareness and literacy. As a part of LSC, we set up the Bangalore chapter of IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access) – an NGO that looks to help underprivileged students gain admission into law schools through CLAT by providing financial and training assistance; and then looks to support and mentor them through the 5 years of law school.

     

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    Have you ever felt that you have a slight advantage over your peers in other law schools owing to the fact that you are an NLSIU-graduate?

    It really depends on what you want to do in life. If you want to start your own company for example, it will make little to no difference which law school you go to. If you want to go to a top tier law firm, again it doesn’t matter that much because as far as I understand, the top 15 from any of the top National Law Schools find their feet fairly easily. Where the difference starts is in the more off-the-beaten-path career options. The reason this difference has begun is because NLS has a very strong alumni network. Many are into business, some even into modelling! One good example is McKinsey, which has numerous NLS alumni. In terms of campus recruitment, McKinsey used to only go to NLS among the top law schools (not sure if this has changed now).

    However, these are not structural barriers. I feel that if you are enterprising enough it doesn’t matter which law school you are from. For instance, when we were at the Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Court Competition in Vienna, we met Martin Hunter (one of the foremost arbitration authorities in the world). He was hanging around a team of law students from KIIT, Bhubaneswar. We later learned that he comes to India and teaches a course every summer on Arbitration law at KIIT.

     

    How important do you think CGPA is in retrospect?

    I did not have a very high CGPA and hence my answers are potentially biased towards feeling it does not matter. I never really cared about CGPA even during law school and focused my attention on co-curricular activities like mooting. NLS recognizes this and there is a gold medal that is based on performance at moots – Best Student Advocate, which I was awarded.

    I think CGPA makes a difference if one wants to join a law firm. It makes a huge difference if one wants to pursue higher education. Once you move away from law firms and higher education, it makes far less of a difference. For litigation, it does not matter in the least!

    In the long run, I think it is important to separate out learning from having a good CGPA. I feel I learnt a lot more from mooting than I did in the classroom. Having a good grounding in law is immensely valuable in whatever you choose to pursue after law school (even if it is not directly law-related). Unfortunately, the CGPA system is far from perfect and I feel does not truly reflect how well one has understood the subject.

    You have taken part in the prestigious Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Court Competition, Vienna and also finished in the Top 16. Please tell us about your experience.

    Vis is truly an amazing moot. The city is beautiful and there’s a party almost every other day. If you plan on taking last minute moot work when there, it is likely to be a very bad idea! There is just so much to do and enjoy other than the moot itself. There are almost 300 teams participating and it’s a great opportunity to meet people and know about their views, etc. and understand the law better. It is truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

    In relation to our performance at the moot – after securing any moot, the first thing to do is to hound past teams who have cracked the moot. The challenge we faced was that teams in the years immediately preceding us had not done very well at Vis. With hard work, an “out of the box” approach to mooting and a ton of luck, we reached the Top 16. Once you reach that position, the other 15 teams are more or less close to your own team in terms of competition. In the round of 16, we lost to a team from the College of Law, England and Wales. The head of Arbitration for Allen & Overy, Europe was their coach!

    You are currently working as a Senior Associate at McKinsey & Company in New York. How is it different from working in India?

    Although not very different in terms of work, it is quite different from a cultural perspective. Here, in the United States, the industries are well established and there is a much more defined role for consultants. In India, it is still a lot more personal and exploratory in terms of the way you work with your clients. Of course, that is a broad generalization and there are many exceptions.

     

    What is an average day as a Senior Associate at McKinsey & Company like for you? We would love to hear about your work profile. Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with.

    As an Analyst and a Senior Associate, you are a member of a larger team. We are given a very challenging problem from the client, which could range from ‘where should we focus for the next five years’ to ‘How do we reduce our procurement cost by 20 percent?’ Whatever the problem is, we break it up into distinct pieces and allot each of these pieces to a member of the team. Teams are small – with 2-4 people looking into at the problem on a full time basis and 2-3 more senior consultants who spread their time across multiple projects. Each person in the team owns a significant part of the answer. As a senior associate, you take a much more holistic view and are responsible for understanding how your part of the problem links with the overall problem and the broader context of the company. As an analyst, you focus on the part of the problem that you have been given. As you get more senior, the mindset changes from ‘This is what I have been allotted and I shall go solve it’ to ‘what is really going to make a significant and lasting difference to the client.’

     

    How can one working at a law firm at present get into McKinsey?

    During my time in India, I did not see many laterals hired from undergraduate programs. I suppose this is because the Analyst programme is a two year commitment after which you are generally expected to go to business school and come back as an Associate. Most analysts spend two years at McKinsey and then go to an NGO or go into investing before going to Business School. Some come back to McKinsey as Associates. There are also people who come back to the law with a more holistic business experience.

     

    Will an MBA post a five year integrated B.A/B.B.A, LL.B. course be a better combination for a job like this at McKinsey (Management consultant)?

    Yes, definitely. Business and law are two sides of the same coin. It is quite useful for one to understand the nuances of the law to make sound business decisions. Beyond that, the way you approach problems in business is exactly the same way you approach problems in litigation. Instead of searching for case law, you’re looking for facts and analyses to support your answer to the problem that the client has posed to you. In the legal context, you are getting the facts of the case, the evidence and putting them all together to support your arguments, so it is very similar in that sense (just a different context). An MBA therefore fits perfectly with a law degree and an excellent entry point into business (including consulting).

     

    Do you plan on doing an MBA sometime?

    I am quite not sure at this point of time. I intend to continue at McKinsey for the near future (I got promoted to associate without an MBA). Frankly, I haven’t decided anything as of now, but I should come to a decision by mid-year.

     

    Do you know about the management consulting industry in India? Would you like to come back and operate from here?

    Yes, I have a fair idea since I worked in India as a management consultant for 2 years. It is definitely an option and not a bad one. It’s really a question of opportunities in the areas you’d want to be in. What excites me the most is doing strategy work for TMT (Telecom, Media & High Tech) companies. From a longer term perspective (5-10 years), I think India will be one of the best markets to be in.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    For people in their second or third year, my message to them would be to make the most of law school. Enjoy the social life along with the extracurricular and co-curricular activities. Do not get too stressed or worried about any one thing (especially CGPA!). For the ones who are about to graduate, I don’t have much to say except that they ought to do what they want, not what everyone else in their batch is doing. Their job should excite them to go to work in the morning. If not, they should already better start planning their exit (even if they have not yet started!). It’s not that every day of the year will be filled with excitement, but in balance, your irritation and frustration should not outweigh your excitement.

  • Kritika Kapoor, Assistant Manager – Legal, Reliance Broadcast Network, on work profile and experience

    Kritika Kapoor, Assistant Manager – Legal, Reliance Broadcast Network, on work profile and experience

    Kritika Kapoor is a graduate from Pravin Gandhi College of Law. She has interned with Advocate Rajesh Bijlani and SPN Law Associates under the mentorship of Advocate Satish Nagvenkar. After graduation, she started working at B4U Television Network. Meanwhile, she also pursued a Masters in Intellectual Property Rights from Mumbai University. She is currently an Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network Limited.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Life at Pravin Gandhi College of Law
    • Working at B4U Television Network
    • Being Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network Limited

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are primarily budding lawyers? Did you belong to a family of lawyers?

    Hello Readers!  I come from a family with a strong science background. My father is an engineer, my sister is a dentist and my mother is a homemaker who has a degree in home science. I too, was keen on entering the medical profession and hence took up science in junior college.  It was during my junior college days that I was drawn to the legal profession whilst working on a personal property dispute. I believed pursuing law would be a challenging and intellectually rewarding career option and would complement my personality and skill sets.

     

    Tell us about your five year journey through law school. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a professional.

    The faculty at Pravin Gandhi College of Law encouraged both academics and extra-curricular activities and the college was always buzzing with action and excitement. I participated in various activities like moots, debates, crime scene investigation competitions, essay writing competitions, etc., and the experience indeed helped me refine my research, analytic and reasoning skills.

    Signing up for various courses relating to consumer protection, property transactions, professional legal communication, etc. helped me add on to my knowledge base. I did a 4-month course on intellectual property from NMIMS which really helped me get an in-depth understanding of IP laws.

    Students should be encouraged and provided a platform to take up research papers and dissertations.

    As President of the college’s Sports Committee, I represented PGCL in various tournaments organised by law schools across India. I won individual titles in Table Tennis & Carrom and team trophies in throwball in various sports tournaments such as: ‘Yuvardha’ organised by National Law University, Jodhpur; ‘Symbhav’ organised by Symbiosis Law School, Pune; and ‘Spiritus’ organised by NLSIU, Bangalore.

    I was in-charge of managing 50+ members contingent on these trips and that truly honed my leadership, time-management, and interpersonal skills. Sports helped me imbibe essential qualities such as sportsmanship, teamwork, respect, integrity, dedication and crisis management. Above all, sports taught me how to be perseverant during times of failure and to remain humble in success. I learnt that you may not always win, but you must play the game with all your heart.

     

    Did you take up any internships or work during your college days?

    Throughout law school I kept myself busy with one thing or the other. I had 5 years of education ahead of me but still wanted to be occupied and financially independent.  In my first year, I took up a job at Intelenet and was working as a Sales & Service Manager for an inbound call process for Barclays Bank, UK, servicing bank accounts and up-selling banking products.

    My first legal internship was with a practicing criminal lawyer, Advocate Rajesh Bijlani. I assisted in research and drafting on contentious cases relating to murder, rape, etc. Thereafter, I worked with SPN Law Associates, under the mentorship of Advocate Satish Nagvenkar who has a strong practice in property law. It was during my stint at SPN that I acquired a good grip on drafting and pleading. A few months before my final semester exams I got placed at B4U Television Network and started working there.

     

    How did you secure your appointment at B4U? What did your work comprise of?  How would you describe your experience working there?

    Like all other enthusiastic final year students, I enrolled for the college placement program and simultaneously started hunting for opportunities myself.  I was contacted for an opening at B4U, which is one of the world’s leading Bollywood television networks, by a consultant who found my resume on an online job portal. I had to undergo two rounds of interviews, first with the Legal Head, Natasha D’Souza and the second was with the Chief Financial Officer, Sandeep Gupta. In the first round I had to answer a few pertinent questions related to property laws, drafting and copyright in order to verify the veracity of my resume and was then asked to draft a reply to one Public Notice. In the second round I was asked a few more questions to identify my individuality and to see if I was fitting to the company and team.

    Working at B4U, I was exposed to the niche practice of media laws. My work primarily involved drafting specialised agreements related to film acquisition & distribution, hiring of transponders, channel distribution, hiring talent, corresponding with government authorities and administrative bodies like MIB, TRAI, FDA, DAVP, IPRS and ensuring regulatory compliance. During my stint at B4U, I undertook extensive research on TRAI Regulations, content laws and the amendments to the Copyright Act. The company provided me a great learning platform and I was fortunate to work with veterans like Sandeep, Natasha and Manisha, who were extremely kind to invest their valuable time in mentoring and training me.

     

    Tell us about your work as an Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network Limited. How has the journey at Reliance been so far?

    Reliance Broadcast provides me with simultaneous exposure to the radio & television businesses. I am blessed with a young and vivacious team of lawyers, company secretaries, Charted Accountants, etc. with whom I closely work. My job requires me to juggle between various duties such as drafting & negotiating contracts, regulatory compliance, litigation management, liaison with counsels, intellectual property management & protection, research & strategy, setting SOPs, providing opinions, prescribing S & P procedures, corresponding with government authorities on business and policy related issues. At the office, I’m always on my toes and that’s one of the reasons I love working here.

    The exposure I’ve gained at Reliance has helped me grow professionally as well as personally. My work has been recognised and appreciated due to which I was recommended for a promotion to Assistant Manager within a few months of joining.

    While working under the leadership and able guidance of Asheesh Chatterjee, our Chief Financial Officer, I have been able to develop a strong commercial acumen and now have a more pragmatic & business focused approach. I am very grateful to my bosses – Asheesh Chaterjee, Gururaja Rao and Shikha Kapadia, who always reposed their faith in me and motivated me to perform better.

     

    Please tell us about the recruitment process at RBNL. What do they look for in their prospective employees?

    I have observed that employers are looking for candidates who are eager to learn and are optimistic about work. They want someone who is hard-working and a team-player.

     

    Tell us what your typical work day is like. What kind of work does an Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network generally deal with? How has the journey at Reliance been so far?

    A normal day at work would involve one or more of the following:

    • Drafting Agreements
    • Legal Research
    • Regulatory Compliance and correspondence
    • Opinion to S&P Team
    • Due Diligence
    • Court Visit
    • Strategy meetings
    • Liasoning with counsels

    At RBNL, I learn something new each day. I am often assigned tasks that are completely new to me and there is always scope for improving as a professional.

     

    In the meantime, you managed to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property Rights from Mumbai University. Was it a professional requirement to enhance your career?

    Since I was working in the media industry, I thought it would be prudent to pursue a Master’s in Intellectual Property. Besides, I’d like to be a guest lecturer of law, few years down the line.

    How can one apply for an internship at RBNL? What qualities do you look for in an intern?

    The desire to learn and basic understanding of legal concepts are qualities we look for. Usually and candidates pursuing CS and Law are preferred.

     

    What do you think of the young law graduates/students and the standard of education in the field currently?

    I think young law graduates feel inadequately equipped in their initial years of practice. The legal education system should be revamped so as to prepare students for the skills required in practice. Various internships during college years should be encouraged, giving students exposure to litigation, corporate set-ups, judicial jobs, research roles, etc. Once a student is aware of the various options available after graduation, he can make a more informed decision regarding his career path.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    Well, considering my target audience is a group of aspiring lawyers I’d like to say, please make the most of your time during law school and explore the various options available to you. Don’t be swayed into choosing a path just because many of your colleagues are opting for it.  Know your own strengths and weaknesses and figure what is best suited to you. Set goals for yourself and work hard towards achieving them. Remember if you are passionate about your dreams and pursue them diligently, success will inevitably follow.

     

  • Sagnik Ghose, Counsel, FactSet, on work of an in-house counsel at MNCs

    Sagnik Ghose, Counsel, FactSet, on work of an in-house counsel at MNCs

    Sagnik Ghose is currently an in-house counsel for FactSet India. He graduated from NUJS in 2006. While in college, he has worked with Paras Kuhad Associates, Kolkata and interned at Reliance. After law school, Sagnik was an Assistant Manager at Dr. Reddy’s. Subsequently he has worked at the Chugh Firm, an international tax accounting firm, and IBM.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NUJS
    • The first year after graduation
    • Working at various Law Firms and Companies

     

    How was your life before college? Kindly tell us about you pre-university educational background. Plus, do you have lawyers in your family?

    I haven’t had any lawyers in my family. My dad is a doctor and all my uncles are engineers. Plus, I have grown up in Calcutta, a city rich in art, music and cultural heritage. My mother is a trained classical musician. I, however, never had any exposure to law and the legal profession during my years growing up, and even after joining college, other than whatever exposure I got in college itself. Hence, there was almost no exposure to law during my precollege life.

     

    Did you not aspire to become an engineer, doctor or artist, given your family background? How did you get to know about law as a profession and what motivated you to take up the same as a career?

    Well, I was never really pressurised by my parents to do something that I didn’t have an inclination towards. However, I had very little exposure to and knowledge about the scope and array of things which a lawyer can do, except litigation. As and when I was exploring my career options during the final years of school, NUJS had come up as a new college, not even a year old. The motivation to get through to NUJS and join the legal profession was the fact that the university had been set up by Dr. Madhava Menon, who at that point of time (and even now), was a figure to reckon with. I had a discussion with my father about law as a career option, and he supported me completely. After having made up my mind, I gave the entrance exam a serious shot and became the first person in my family to enter the legal profession.

     

    According to you, what should a person, who hasn’t had the fortune of studying in a top law school, do so as to develop skills required in the legal profession? Do you think that they are at the same standing with NLU students?

    Well, my personal opinion is that a person graduating from a top NLU has that extra edge when it comes to campus placements only. On a close look at the industry, we can see that most of the top rated general counsels, partners or senior partners in law firms or senior law officials are from non-blue-blooded law schools, and have made their way to the top through the more difficult old school way, that is, working hard. It is after litigating for years or advising clients in Companies that they have figured out what the clients need. I think that which law school you graduate from makes little difference. Just like my other passion, cooking, it doesn’t matter which culinary school you pass out from. If after passing out, you put in your best, nothing can stop you from becoming a great chef. Even if you fail to get into an NLU, there is no reason to give up hope on the legal profession. If, after entering the professional field, you work hard and apply yourself correctly, you are guaranteed to be a successful counsel. The flip side is that, if you do graduate from an NLU and get placed in a law firm or a Company, you get to learn a lot more during the initial stint of your career. So, yes, there are both pros and cons, but I would say that studying in a top NLU is just a part of it, but certainly not the entire picture.

     

    sagnik-ghose-2

    How was law school? How did you go about your academics as well as extra-curricular activities? Were you into mooting?

    For me, the law school experience has been very positive. Having studied at NUJS, I got involved in many activities apart from the mandatory academics. I was a part of the student juridical association for a very long time. I did a bit of intra college moots, but I was not too much into mooting. I had realised that a career in litigation was not for me, and therefore, did not place too much of an emphasis on mooting.

    During my final year of law school, all throughout, I used to study in the first half of the day, and during afternoon I used to work in Paras Kuhad and Associates.I used to help them with small issues and research work and worked on various legal questions with a senior, Kushagra. Apart from other internships, this actually helped me mould my understanding of what actually a client is looking for, why a business lawyer is so much in demand, and what is expected from a business lawyer when he joins a Company in house.

    Apart from this, I also worked with Arjya Bir Majumdar, one of my closest friends from school, to help the WWF in whatever way we could. We actually took time off on a Sunday morning, went down to a market in Chingrihata, found turtles being sold (sale of turtle meat is banned), bought one of the live ones with our pocket money (what with us being students and money being short!), and then went to the Alipore Zoo to release it into the water!All of the above, in addition to the obligatory line of heartbreaks and new girlfriends, soulful music and endless food, hanging out at the movie halls and getting hammered at the local bars. It was an eventful five years!

    Despite them thinking otherwise, students actually have a lot of time, and they should take some time off to go get some valuable guidance under a senior lawyer to figure out what excites him or her the most.

     

    Kindly tell us about you internship at Reliance. Was it then that you decided to become an in-house counsel?

    Well, the Reliance internship was definitely the turning point for me. Before that, I had only worked with law firms and NGOs, but the Reliance internship actually changed everything for me. One, I had never spent so much time, almost three months, outside my city, working, that too in a city like Mumbai, which has such a brilliant work environment and where you get to work with the best of legal and business professionals. So the Reliance internship was an eye-opener on a lot of fronts, since I got to work with many good, solid lawyers, some of whom continue to be my friends even after so long. I got a learn a lot about laws around privacy, intellectual properties, copyrights, business laws, both procurement and sales, trademarks, media, technology, basically every law a lawyer can think of under the TMT business. There were a lot of intricacies that were involved in the Reliance internship. Getting a taste of the work, I decided to extend my internship. An internship is normally for 6-8 weeks, but I did it for almost 12 weeks, because of which I missed college a bit, but it was worth it. I also got a very good stipend at the end of my internship. Plus, I got due recognition for the work I did and also built a good rapport with my seniors. I also gave a couple of compliance presentations. Hence, summing up, I got really healthy work, and it helped me realise that working in a Company is something I can actually do, and contribute positively to the growth of a Company.

     

    Would you say that NUJS prepared you for the real professional world? Were the things that were taught at NUJS relevant to your internships and first year at work?

    Well, the answer to that is yes and no. I feel that some of the courses at that time should have been better tuned in the final year when students are looking to enter the work field. I am saying this because when I started working, I realised that almost three quarters of my time is being spent in working on contracts, which is a subject which was taught in the very first year of law school.

    So I really think that our college should have offered an advanced course on contracts, apart from the courses which were taught to us is our final years, to give students an exposure to various aspects of contract law that they would be dealing with while working. There are complex concepts like change control, confidentiality, data privacy and control, termination, warranties, indemnities, limitation of liabilities and there are various aspects to each of these concepts which one has to deal with while strategizing, understanding and negotiating contracts. I really think that every law school should offer, atleast as optional courses, tools which can equip you to deal with situations where you have to negotiate with more experienced professionals.

    For example, the person on the other side of the table would either be an in-house counsel or an external counsel. So, for an in-house counsel, it becomes very important to be more reasonable and break the ice during negotiations, whereas, for external counsels, you have to test waters and understand his level of aggression (because he has to justify his bills, I have more often faced very aggressive external counsels) and knowledge of his client before you start negotiations. Areas like these, which you learn during your professional experience, should atleast be offered as an optional course.

     

    After graduating from NUJS in 2006, you got to join Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories as an Assistant Manager. How did this happen, and what were your responsibilities?

    After passing out in 2006, Iwas appointed as a management trainee, and I spent about a year in probation before getting appointed as an Assistant Manager. In the first year, I was doing general corporate legal work, and then I moved on to more focused branded formulations work. My primary responsibility was to look at all the branded formulation contracts for all the thirty six countries. That is what I used to do for about a year, before I decided to move on.

     

    Many law students suspect that they would need to know a bit about pharmacy and chemistry if they want to join as an in-house counsel at a place like Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories. Is it true?

    Well, again yes and no. If you are looking to join as a fresher then they’ll not expect you to know much about the pharmaceutical industry, which you’ll have to learn on the job. But, if you are looking to join as an experienced professional, then ofcourse they expect you to know things like what licensing terms and conditions typically are, how much time does it take for a molecule to develop and so on. So yes, if you are joining as a fresher, you are not expected to know these nuances but if you join as a professional, you have to have a strong grip on the basics.

     

    How was your experience working there?

    It was excellent! I had a very good mentor in Mr. Narasimha Das, who was their General Counsel. He taught me the basics, like creating a checklist to be looked at while creating, or marking up agreements, managing time, speaking to clients and managing expectations. He exposed me to the maximum number of agreements, co-development, licensing, confidentiality, distribution, marketing, services, IT services, basically, the works. He literally held me by the hand and taught me how to strategize mark-ups and negotiations, learning body language and identifying signs of closure. I owe a great deal to him!

     

    After your work at Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, you moved on to join an international tax accounting firm, the Chugh Firm. How did the shift take place, and how different was it from working at a pharmaceutical firm?

    The Chugh Firm is an international tax accounting firm. However, I joined their Indian partners, Universal Legal. I was a part of the core corporate legal team where I was helping in incorporation of Companies, post incorporation compliances, assisting in agreement processes and so on. It was very different, since I moved from an in-house counsel to a service oriented role. It was very different in terms of work culture.

    Specifically, in a mid-sized ambitious set up like Universal Legal, if you don’t provide answers to clients as of yesterday, your clients just move on the some other firm, which we could not have allowed to happen! Most of our clients used to be start-ups, who are typically hungry and desperate to succeed. They expected super high turnaround time and high quality of work. The thing with start-ups is, if you start off on a good note with them, and if it clicks, then they will be your clients for life. So I did that for about 3 years, where I learned to advise clients on a variety of legal aspects.

     

    After that, you joined IBM. What does an attorney do at an MNC like IBM? What were your responsibilities?

    In big Companies like IBM, the superstructure is usually broken down into wings dedicated for specific purposes. I was appointed at IBM as a deal lawyer for Global Business Services, which is their consultancy business. Basically, I used to negotiate on behalf of IBM from the legal perspective and help close deals for IBM. I used to work closely with sales, taxation, business, solutions and software teams for helping to take calls on questions of liability, protection, tax implications and so on. My time in IBM was very enjoyable, and this is the place which taught me how big Companies manage work efficiently in spite of their bulk and reach. A shout out here to Ajay Dua, who heads the legal function in IBM India for helping me out on multiple occasions with easy, workable solutions to complex problems. He has been an excellent mentor!

     

    At all the three places you worked, was the work similar or did you have to learn new skills every time you joined a new place?

    Well, some basic things like principles of contracts, litigation processes, HR policies etc., have to be the same, because the underlying laws are the same. The important change is whom you are working for. For example, working with Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, you have to think from a global MNC perspective, and the effect on the position of an MNC dealing with pharmaceuticals. When you are dealing with something like pharmaceuticals, the liability is much greater, since human life is involved. One has to exercise extreme amounts of caution when you take on certain liabilities. But when you work with an IT giant like IBM, the life threatening aspect goes off the table.

    However, that doesn’t mean that there is any less liability. In a Company like IBM, you are dealing with large nationalised banks, which perform transactions worth millions of dollars in a single cycle. Accuracy and speed are tantamount to such transactions, and therefore, the liability is no less here.The heads of risk might differ but the risk of doing business is always present. One needs to figure out which risk is acceptable and which risk is absolutely non-acceptable in that particular industry. So there is this learning curve which you go through when you enter any work culture or a firm or a Company, and that is the learning curve you need to adapt to, and once that is done, things easily fall into place. So all the places where I have worked have been extremely different but equally rewarding and enriching as far as my understanding of different workplaces go.

     

    What are the highlights of your career till joining FactSet? How did you decide to leave IBM and join FactSet?

    FactSet has been around for a good 36 years now, and is a global leader in the field of financial information analytics, intelligence and solutions. I decided to leave IBM primarily because at IBM I was doing very high level of work, but I was doing only one kind of work, that is contracts and negotiations. I had no reason to complain, this is how any big Company functions, since efficiency is of paramount importance. After having worked with IBM for three years, the next logical step I could take was to expand my field of work in order to move up. I was looking for an opportunity where I could deal with not just contracts but also corporate matters, administrative matters, general government regulatory mechanisms, compliance matters and the entire gamut of general in house counsel queries, including sales. As a counsel for FactSet, that is just what I do, and it is brilliant working here!

    At FactSet, I have a dual role. One, I provide advice to my internal clients with regard to a number of matters, like contracts, real estate, labour, compliance, government regulations, negotiations and so on. This is at a local level. At the global level,I work a lot with the global team with regard to contract negotiations and deal making. If anybody is looking to move in an MNC which gives dual responsibility, they can expect a kind of work in which they’ll have to work at both local and global levels.

     

    Does your current role at FactSet involve any amount of data crunching?

    No, that is done by the operations team, just like at Dr. Reddy’s, a lawyer is not expected to develop molecules! I am the legal counsel for FactSet. As a legal counsel, you need to understand how the different wings of the Company work in tandem, what risks your Company can or cannot take, how flexible you can be for contract negotiations, which factors should influence your judgment of risks and so on.

     

    Do you have any vacancies for legal interns at FactSet?

    We do not have a permanent internship facility at FactSet. Normally, legal interns are taken for two reasons.

    One, they learn about FactSet and what sort of issues/ concerns come up in a global Company. That is the short term internship, which is for a month or so, which most Companies are open to.

    Secondly, there are long term internships to hunt for a good prospective employee. Currently, we aren’t really pursuing the second kind of aspect since all the positions are full but if somebody wants a shot term internship, then probably we can give it a thought.

     

    What do you think of higher studies as a career strategy? Do you plan to go for higher studies?

    I don’t, but then a couple of years ago I was thinking of an MBA, purely because I was interested in management, setting up a legal team and helping a Company to grow. So I would say that it’s a good idea to work for some years at different places, maybe a combination of Companies and law firms, and figure out what you are actually interested in. At that point of time, one can figure out what kind of higher studies you want to go in for, be it LL.M, MBA or anything. So it entirely depends upon a person. I have a very neutral stance with regard to higher studies, since I have seen many students studying advanced courses but still not making a mark in the market and some who havea simple law degree doing a wonderful job. So it completely depends on the person.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    My opinion is to never specialise early on in your career, especially when you are in law school. That is because when you specialise, you start leaving out on some other spheres of law. Always explore the field. One should know about all the options that are available. There are so many avenues which a lawyer can go into these days, and the scope of work which a law student can do now is phenomenal. Never specialise in your last year of law school or your first year in a job. Just keep on generalising and growing on general strengths. Once you have done that, in around 8-10 years, you can know in what area you really want to go forward, if at all, and then you can specialise.

     

    What is your advice to law students who want to build a great legal work profile?

    A couple of them. One, you need to be a generalist at the start of your career. This comes with a disclaimer, that if you have a lawyer in your family and you at an early stage know what you want to do, it is a different ballgame. But when you don’t have that advantage, you should be a generalist at the start, and you should then build your profile with regard to being a general lawyer who is good at researching and understands the law of the land. It’s not just the work profile as far as going to office and advising your clients is concerned. You should be the scholar who a person on the road can have the confidence of approaching with a legal query and expect a well-structured, solid answer.

    Second, understand what your client wants. Always listen carefully to what your clients are saying, understand their needs and then respond. You don’t need to respond right away, but don’t give them a wrong response.

    Be very careful, since people automatically assume that being a law graduate, you are an expert in all laws. Hence, you need to be extremely careful with the advice you are dispensing. If you have read Kafka, you would be able to draw parallels between law and a big black house in a dream. You turn a corner, and all the roads look the same. It is scary for an outsider. Lawyers are supposed to be the friends, figure out the dream and help their clients. Law is as dangerous a field as medicine. So the amount of trust you place in your doctor, if the same amount of trust your client can place in you, then you are going to make it big, and there is no stopping you.

  • Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar is a practicing Media, Entertainment and Sports lawyer. She graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2012. During law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities including moot court competitions, debates, and conferences. From her law school days, she was interested in IP laws and therefore, pursued internships accordingly. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from KAD Legal and she currently works as an Associate there.

    We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years. In this interview, she talks about:

    • Studying Law from GLC, Mumbai
    • Work opportunities in media-entertainment and sports law
    • Work profile at KAD Legal

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Hi, I am Nandini Kumar. I am a practicing lawyer with a special interest in media-entertainment and sports law. I pursued the B.L.S LL.B. degree offered by Government Law College, Mumbai after finishing my secondary education at Delhi Public School, R.K. Puram.

     

    How would you describe your time at GLC, Mumbai? What are the co-curricular activities you took part in GLC?

    Being a part of the oldest law college in the country was a great learning experience.

    Since my school days, I have been involved in various social service activities and consequently, I chose to be a part of the Social Service League and Rotaract Club in college. I was also the Director of the Community Services, Rotaract Club in the second year.

     

    What sort of internships did you do while in law school? How instrumental were these internships in helping you decide what field of law you wished to specialize in?

    I have been interning since the first year of college. My first internship was with Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court, Mr. Vijay Hansaria who got me involved in a trademark litigation which made me inquisitive about intellectual property laws. Thereafter, I have interned at Krishna and Saurashtri, Walt Disney, Puneet Aggarwal (Advocate of Delhi High Court), Hindustan Coca-Cola Beverage Private Limited, Nishith Desai Associates and KAD Legal. These internships gave me a platform to understand the nuances of the legal profession. Most of my internships were related to intellectual property matters and drafting agreements and since I was blessed with amazing mentors at my internships, I think they played a pivotal role in my decision to pursue a career in the non-litigation media-entertainment space.

     

    Do NLU students have an edge over the non-NLU students?

    NLU students may have an edge over the non-NLU students when it comes to placements, however, I feel that each individual and their interest in learning the tricks of the trade are essential for kick-starting the career and continuous growth thereafter.

     

    You began your professional career with KAD Legal Consultants and currently works as an Associate there. How did you secure your appointment?

    I was offered a PPO at KAD Legal Consultants as I had done repetitive internships at the firm during and after the third year of college. I have had a wonderful learning experience since then at the firm.

    The firm recruits associates based on the requirements of the firm. In the past, either the final year interns have been absorbed or experienced associates have been engaged after a series of interview, both oral and written.

     

    What does your current work profile at KAD Legal Consultants consists of? Tell us a bit about the firm, your typical workday and the overall work/life balance.

    My current work profile consists of trademark prosecution, media and entertainment which primarily involves drafting and negotiating agreements for production houses, music composers, directors, actors and other personnel of the Indian film and television industry, persons/ companies in digital media and sports persons. The firm is a boutique law firm with an expertise in the intellectual property and securities law related matters.

    Typical work day starts at 9:30am and begins, without fail, by making a to-do list followed by drafting agreements, trademark work, client interaction and reading to update myself with the current affairs. Regarding work/life balance, just after graduation, my father gave me a book with various quotes and life lessons in relation to work/life balance. Two quotes out of the lot made a huge impact on me were “Life is not about work, office and clients. There is more to life. You need to socialize, entertain, relax and exercise. Don’t let life be meaningless” and “A person who stays late in office is not a hardworking person, instead he/she is a fool who doesn’t know how to manage work within the stipulated time. He/She is inefficient and incompetent in his work”. Initially it was difficult, but I have made best endeavours to finish work on time in order to have the luxury of having a work/life balance.

     

    What brought you towards Media and Entertainment Law?

    I come from a non-legal background, I had zero exposure to law before law school but I have grown up watching movies and it was extremely fascinating for me to understand how law protects the makers of movies, how brands are safeguarded, how law prohibits people from copying and manufacturing designs of a fashion designers. Intellectual property laws which form the basis of media-entertainment law made me understand these aspects and that’s why I chose to be a media-entertainment lawyer.

     

    Tell us something about this new and emerging field of law that you practice?

    Media-Entertainment and Sports law practice is niche and upcoming field of intellectual property law. What makes it interesting is that is still evolving which requires constant learning and interpretation of law.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    As humans we all make mistakes. My strategy has been to accept the mistakes I have made, learn from the errors and avoid repeating them. I would advise young associates to own up to the mistakes and bring it to the attention of their senior as soon as possible. Also, have zero tolerance towards repetition of same mistakes.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    As an intern at KAD, I had assisted Mr. Kiran Desai (the Founding Partner) in drafting an endorsement agreement of a celebrity and was very excited and proud to see the hoardings of that endorsement.  My parents got particularly excited to see my name in the credits of a movie, for which the firm had provided legal assistance.

    As a media lawyer, I need to prepare for negotiations. To prepare for negotiations, I make it a point to understand the client’s needs, follow client instructions and know the agreement being negotiated inside out. I also try to have legal and logical reasoning for most of the negotiations that are put forward.

     

    Does KAD Legal Consultants take interns? Please tell us the procedure. What do they look for in their prospective interns and employees?

    Yes, KAD Legal does take interns. Law students can apply for internships by sending their resume along with the covering letter to contact@kadlegal.com. The firm believes in giving everyone a platform to learn. Prospective interns and employees are expected to be eager to apprehend the media-entertainment and sports law and the practical aspects of the related business. They are also expected to have clarity in thought process and expression.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    Actual’ learning does come with practice and also experience. The laws are the same for everyone. The practice and the experience provide the capability of applying and interpreting the law in the relevant situation that the client’s face. The practice and the ability to use the experience distinguish a “senior partner” from an “associate” and also a “good lawyer” from a “lawyer”. In my situation, I think I have also grown as a lawyer with time and have started identifying issue points better.

     

    Many law school students aspire to secure a job. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observations?

    In today’s age, I don’t think there is anything wrong in aspiring to secure a job. It is important to understand, during the course of job, if the work excites you enough to want to learn and grow else it’s the waste of time and energy both of the employee and the employer.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Be open to learning and exploring. Think and apply your mind to every situation that appears before you. Especially, to the students who intend to intern, don’t consider any assignment given to be small or irrelevant. Good luck. 🙂