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  • Sucheta Chatterjee, Indian Foreign Service Officer, on the UPSC and work experience at SEBI

    Sucheta Chatterjee, Indian Foreign Service Officer, on the UPSC and work experience at SEBI

    Sucheta Chatterjee is a graduate of WBNUJS, Kolkata (2007 Batch). Soon after her graduation she joined SEBI as a Legal Officer and had been working there for six long years, before challenging herself to the formidable UPSC.

    For her, taking the UPSC was more of an aspiration to serve the nation as an IFS Officer. She had determined that she would either serve India in the Foreign Service or continue in SEBI.

    In this interview she shares with us:

    • Work experience at SEBI
    • Deciding to take the UPSC plunge
    • Taking the UPSC prelims and the mains
    • Training period and posting

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are mainly young and enthusiastic lawyers?

    I would firstly like to congratulate them for taking up law as a career. As far as introductions go, I’m a law graduate from the National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata, and I subsequently worked in SEBI in the very niche field of capital markets and securities law, specifically in enquiry and adjudication matters. Thereafter I stumbled into the Indian Foreign Service. My first posting abroad will be in Moscow.

     

    What inclined you towards the field of legal education? Did anyone among your family and friends suggest you to choose alternate career options?

    Growing up as an adolescent in Calcutta’s politically charged atmosphere left me well coloured with a burning idealism and a fierce intolerance of injustice. At eighteen, I felt as if I could change the world and fight for the rights of the underprivileged and [sociallocker]marginalized. Therefore, I joined law school with starry eyes and I was rather disconnected from reality.

    My family and friends were very supportive and never tried to impose any course of action upon me. I remain grateful to my parents for their unflinching support even in the face of some unconventional decisions that I’ve made.

     

    How was your experience at NUJS? What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    NUJS was a wake-up call in many ways. My years there taught me some very hard lessons about the legal system. My very first encounters with the bureaucratic mode of functioning happened in NUJS, leading to several bitter-sweet incidents. All things considered, it was a very extensive learning experience that enriched my life and I feel a sense of gratitude towards my alma mater. I would specifically like to mention Professor D. Banerjee who was always an inspiration in my life. He had always told me that he felt that the civil services would be the best option for me and that he was confident that I would get selected.  I kept telling him that I couldn’t possibly get selected. Had he been alive, he would have been very happy. I miss him so much.

    As far as co-curricular activities are concerned, I can only remember a controversial monograph I’d written about the AFSPA in Manipur, which won me the first prize, to my greatest astonishment. Otherwise, I was essentially a loner and did not participate in any activity if I could help it. I was rarely in the campus after class hours and spent most of my time reading really amazing books (borrowed from the library) that had nothing to do with our academic curriculum.

     

    After graduation, you joined SEBI (Securities and Exchange Board of India) as a Legal Officer. How did you go about the appointment? Please tell us about the recruitment process at SEBI.

    I was selected by SEBI through the campus recruitment programme. I chose SEBI over law firms because I felt that working in the government sector has certain specific advantages that are not available in the private sector.

     

    You have worked with SEBI for a considerably long time as an Assistant Legal Advisor. Please tell us about your experience there.

    I worked at SEBI for about six years! SEBI is an outstanding employer. My years there were a continuous learning experience, albeit in a very niche sphere. SEBI, and especially my colleagues there, will always remain special to me. I will always feel a sense of gratitude to them for making my debut into the legal world such an enjoyable experience.

     

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    When and what inspired you to appear for UPSC after having a secured career at SEBI?

    Will you believe me if I tell you that I appeared for the UPSC exam because I wanted to get away from my boss?! That was indeed a major factor.

    Another reason was pure wanderlust and I felt that joining the Indian Foreign Service would be a great way to live in various parts of the world, immersed in alien cultures. The fact that I have always been keenly interested in international affairs further strengthened my resolve to give it a go.

     

    When did you start preparing for the exams? When should a person ideally start preparation for the UPSC exam?

    I had severe time constraints because I was handling a full-time job while preparing for the exam. I started practicing a lot of mathematics about a few months before the preliminary examination. I focused entirely on mathematics because I felt that my performance in the quantitative aptitude part of the paper would make or break my attempt to clear the civil service exams. I studied for the main examination only after the results of the preliminary exam was declared and I was sure that I had qualified for the main exam.

    I suppose ideally a person ought to start preparing a year in advance but then I firmly belong to the school of thought that maintains that the amount of time you study is irrelevant. How you do it is what counts.

     

    Did you enrol in a coaching institute? How valuable do you think coaching institutions can be for UPSC preparation?

    No, I did not enrol myself in a coaching institute because of time constraints. Thus, I am not competent to opine about the value of coaching institutions.

     

    How many hours did you put in for your preparations every day? Is it important to have a fixed schedule or weekly targets important according to you?

    It varied from two hours to none at all. I did not maintain a fixed schedule and studied in fits and starts.

    I am sure fixed schedules and monthly targets are useful for those inclined to study in that manner. It is important to know what suits you as an individual and to create your own style of preparation. I don’t believe there is a fixed formula for success.

    What did you do to keep yourself abreast of all domestic and international current affairs? How did you study for static GK?

    I relied on The Hindu and the Indian Express to give me a fair idea of how events were playing out in local and international politics. But this isn’t something that can be started a year before the exam. It is a lifelong process and one has to keep reading all the time. I strongly believe that in the UPSC, it is accumulated knowledge that makes all the difference.

     

    Did you regularly read newspapers? How did that help you? How should one strategically use newspapers for preparation?

    I have always read newspapers regularly. It has become a habit. With time, one can instinctively pick out what’s important and what is of relatively less importance. My personal favourites are the editorial section and the opinion page. It is a mistake to cram up facts because the pattern of the UPSC paper is heavily analytical.

     

    Which books/materials did you rely on while preparing?

    A CSAT book published by Tata McGraw Hill on quantitative aptitude helped me to conquer my fear of mathematics to an extent. For the mains, NCERT textbooks were my bible, so to speak. I also highly recommend The Economic and Political Weekly as well as The Frontline magazine. Wikipedia should also not be underestimated, no matter what the pundits tell you. It also helps to choose one’s own subject for the Main Exams as it saves the trouble of learning an entirely new subject. The myth that some subjects are more “scoring” than others has effectively been busted. I stuck to my strengths – law and political science.

     

    Lakhs of people attempt the UPSC prelims and only a thousand get selected for the main written exam. Which are the prime skills and expertise required to crack the prelims?

    I will spare you a lecture on hard work and dedication because that would be an insult to lakhs of candidates who studied very hard with tremendous dedication and still did not make it. The role of chance is a big factor that is seldom mentioned by successful candidates. You have to do your best and hope that by chance you get to attempt questions which you have prepared for.

    Besides, those who have good time management skills have an obvious edge over those who do not.

     

    Please share with us your insight of attempting the prelims.

    You are interviewing me more than two years after I appeared for the preliminary examination. I cannot remember much except for the fact that most of the multiple choice questions were very tricky and designed to make one choose the wrong answer so I attempted only those questions that I felt reasonably sure about in order to avoid negative marking.

     

    What kind of posts had you opted for in the UPSC enrolment form? How do you want to serve the nation? Didn’t you think of applying for the IAS?

    In my DAP (detailed application form), I chose the Indian Foreign Service as my one and only option. I could have easily got IAS with my home cadre but I was determined to join either the IFS or remain with SEBI.

    As a diplomat, I would like to contribute to the formulation of a rational, enlightened foreign policy in consonance with the spirit of the constitution and the ideals of Panchsheel.

     

    How would you rate the main exam question paper on difficulty?

    The main examination paper was rather difficult, at least by my standards. The GS papers especially had some very tough questions that compelled a lot of thinking and planning before writing, leading to a time crunch.

     

    Did you appear for mock interviews? What are your views on taking mock interviews?

    No, I did not appear for mock interviews. So, I can’t comment on that too.

     

    Any specific strategy you would recommend us for the interview?

    I decided to be frank and forthright in my interview and not pretend to be someone I am not. The board members were all experienced bureaucrats who could easily see through all attempts at falsehood. Therefore one should respect their intelligence and not try to fool them. I was asked several highly controversial political questions and I answered all of them with candour and made no attempts to be evasive. Thankfully, I was also asked a lot of legal questions. There was one question to which I did not know the answer and I admitted my ignorance.

    “Bullshitting” is absolutely useless in the UPSC interview. Interestingly, I was even made to recite some Bengali poetry and sing a few lines of Rabindra Sangeet. I am sure the board members regretted asking me to sing the moment I opened my mouth!

     

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    How would you describe your training period? Please share some memorable moments of your training programme with our readers.

    The training at Lal Bahadur National Academy of Administration, Mussoorie, was a saga of never-ending hardship for a laidback, unorganized person like me because there is a lot of emphasis on discipline, order and method. The fun parts were the treks, village visit and weekend parties in the Officers’ Lounge. But apart from having to get up at 4:30 a.m. in the freezing cold for P.T., I think we all had a stellar time.

    The training provided at the Foreign Service Institute was excellent. We especially enjoyed ‘Bharat Darshan’, the attachments with all three wings of the armed forces and the mission attachment at Dhaka. It is a cliché to say that training is the best part of the service bit it is very true, nonetheless.

     

    After the training period, where was your first appointment?

    At present, I am undergoing desk attachment at South Block in the Eurasia Division. My first posting will probably happen around August, 2015 in Moscow, Russian Federation.

     

    Please tell us a little about your work profile working as a Foreign Services officer. What are the responsibilities you are entrusted with?

    As a Foreign Service Officer, we are entrusted with nearly everything that involves a foreign relations component, from writing concept papers, to vetting treaties and MoUs to organizing visits of heads of states etc. Our division successfully handled the recently concluded Indo-Russia Annual Summit in New Delhi. We get to learn something new every day and compared to other services, political interference in the IFS is minimal.

     

    How is a typical workday like? How has your experience of being an IFS officer been so far?

    A typical workday involves getting up early and rushing to South Block by 9, dealing with little mountains of files, attending numerous phone calls and meeting a wide variety of people from all over the world. While working abroad, the experience is bound to be different.

     

    What would be your message to law students and lawyers who aspire to become a civil servant?

    It is always an asset to the civil service to have legally literate officers and I personally believe that law students and lawyers have an edge over others in the civil service exams because of the five years of rigorous training that we undergo at law schools. So if you think that the civil service is where you aim to reach, there is absolutely nothing to stop you! All the very best!

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  • Sandeep Huilgol, Tax Attorney, King & Partridge on an LL.M from King’s College and work in Civil & Tax Matters

    Sandeep Huilgol, Tax Attorney, King & Partridge on an LL.M from King’s College and work in Civil & Tax Matters

    Sandeep Huilgol is a graduate of ILS Law College, 2010 batch, and of King’s College, London, 2011 batch. For the past three and a quarter years, he has been working in Bangalore, practicing as a civil and tax advocate at King & Partridge. We asked him to share his experiences and strategies he used over the years.

    We took this opportunity to ask him about:

    • Pursuing an LL.M. from King’s College, London
    • Writing a proper SoP for an LL.M and having a Letter of Recommendation
    • Working at King & Partridge

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    After I got over my initial, albeit strange dream of becoming a lumberjack in Canada, I only ever dreamed of becoming a lawyer. I was fascinated by civics and political science in school, and the book, “Yes, Minister” further strengthened my interest towards the profession. It’s been nearly ten years since I started at ILS, and I can honestly say that I’ve never looked back.

     

    How would you describe your time at ILS Pune?

    My time at ILS was a wonderful mix of academics, fun, and growing-up. To be honest, I wasn’t always too hard working as a student, but I managed to put in the extra hours either the week or night before an exam. It’s not an approach I would recommend to anyone, and looking back, I sometimes wish I had worked harder throughout the year. It’s a lesson which, hopefully, the readers of this interview can pick up from me.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing knowledge in these areas?

    Certain subjects fascinated me, such as constitutional law, tax, and jurisprudence. Moot courts however, were something I always looked forward to. I was also very lucky to have had the experience of both, researching / speaking at moot courts, as well as judging a moot court. In my opinion, the best way to go about developing proficiency would be to participate in as many moot courts / debates / seminars as possible. While reading is something all of us can and will do, and over time, knowledge will eventually be garnered, the ability to speak / orate is something that can only be developed by trial and error. Don’t let initial setbacks put you off. Keep trying until it becomes second nature.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing an LL.M right after graduation? When did you finally decide that you need to do masters?

    There were a few reasons that motivated me to apply for an LL,M immediately after my graduation.

    One: I wanted to litigate and I was aware that the chances of me taking time off after commencing work were very low.

    Two: I wanted to push myself academically. Like I said, I don’t think I did justice to my academics during my time at ILS and I felt the growing need to study and learn something out of choice, and not merely for the sake of exams. King’s is a world-renowned institution and I was acutely aware of the quality of its facilities and faculty.

    Lastly, the opportunity to live abroad, and that too in a city like London, was something I could not turn down.

     

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    How did you choose King’s College, University of London over others? How did you go about choosing a university?

    There were a number of boxes I had to check before I opted for King’s. I analysed the Times UK university ratings, sought reviews from my seniors who had actually gone to the UK to do their LL.M.s, attended UK Education fairs, interviewed faculty from King’s and other colleges which had been arranged at these fairs, approached education consulting service providers and lastly, I approached a few senior lawyers in Bangalore and asked them for their views insofar as pursuing an LL.M. was concerned.

     

    How did you go about writing your SoP? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SoP?

    My SoP was essentially my mission statement. It was my way of putting down on paper the events that led me to opt for law, the reasons for pursuing my masters, the person I would like to see myself become and so on.

    As for the second question, in my opinion, one’s SoP should be a reflection of one’s ideas, thoughts, and aspirations. Honesty in one’s SoP shines through. Be clear in thought and keep it simple. The reader is not going to meet you in person. The SoP is his / her only way of getting to know who you are. In other words, the SoP is your way of making a good first impression. To me, the key points are honesty, simplicity, and clarity of thought.

     

    How about recommendation letters? Who all recommended you to pursue LL.M?

    Three of my professors at ILS provided me with letters of recommendation (‘LoR’). I asked only those teachers who had taught me more than one subject, and with whom I had interacted with on a more personal level. That way, I hoped that their own impressions of me would be expressed in their LoRs. It’s a tip which I’d give the readers of this interview as well. Again, if a professor asks you to draft a LoR which is to be vetted by him / her, keep it simple, don’t blow your own trumpet unreasonably, and stick to actual accomplishments / feats.

    The readers of LoRs pore over thousands of LoRs annually. They are able to discern the genuine ones from the overly self-eulogising ones.

     

    How will you compare King’s College, London with that of Indian Law Schools?

    Vastly different. The pedagogy at King’s was much more interactive and engaging. A lot of room was given for individual thought. Subjects were not taught at King’s. On the contrary, subjects were discussed and debated. It was thoroughly enjoyable. My year in London just flew by and I will always look back with very fond memories. A special mention has to be made here for my professor, Ms. Penney Lewis, who is without a doubt, the best professor I have ever had!

     

    What was your topic of research for LL.M? Why did you choose that subject for research?

    My dissertation was titled, “Are our bodies really ours? A case for legalising the trade in human organs”. It’s a topic which is close to my heart and, while I admit it is a controversial topic, the legalising of trade in human organs is something I’m keen to see it happen in the near future.

     

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    You are currently working at King & Partridge, Bangalore. How did you go about bagging this job? Please tell us about the recruitment process at K&P?

    My application, via e-mail, was addressed to one of the partners at K&P. Thereafter, I was called in for a personal interview with each of the partners, pursuant to which I was offered a job in the firm, which I gladly accepted.

     

    So how did the interview go? Do you happen to recall any of the questions?

    To be honest, it’s a bit of a blur as it’s been over three years! While I can’t remember the actual questions that were posed to me, I do remember that they were more aimed at determining the person I was and discovering my general attitude and approach to work and life, as opposed to questions of a legal nature.

     

    What are your day-to-day responsibilities? How is the experience so far?

    As a practicing advocate, my work-profile consists of the following:

    (1) Drafting,

    (2) Researching,

    (3) Assisting my senior colleagues while they prepare for arguments, and

    (4) Appearances before trial courts, tribunals, and the High Court.

    Work has thus far been fascinating, rewarding, and enriching. Most importantly, it’s been fun! However I must admit that I like almost everyone else suffer from Sunday-evening blues!

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers who are mainly young lawyers and law students?

    First and foremost, enjoy your time in college! You will never get those five years again so make the most of it. Study, participate actively in moot courts / seminars / extra-curricular activities, but also remember to have fun. When work begins however, one must work hard. As clichéd as it may sound, there really is no substitute for hard work. One must read as voraciously as one can, be it work-related briefs and journals, as well as non-work related literature and newspapers / magazines. Although I have not even worked for four years, I can confidently say that it’s a rewarding career-choice. One must however be patient. Only if the foundation is strong and sturdy, which is only possible through diligence and discipline, will the latter years be fruitful. Commitment to the profession and more importantly to justice along with honesty in all walks of life, mixed with a healthy and necessary dose of sports and fun should make for a long and enriching career.

  • Hiral Vimadalal, Assistant Manager-Legal, Viacom 18 on work at law firms and in-house

    Hiral Vimadalal, Assistant Manager-Legal, Viacom 18 on work at law firms and in-house

    Hiral Vimadalal graduated from Pravin Gandhi College of Law in 2009. She is one of the founding members of Moot Court Society at Pravin Gandhi College of Law. She started her legal career as an Associate at ‘India Law Services’. Thereafter she worked at V.A. Associates and Wockhardt Limited. She has recently joined Viacom 18 Media Private Limited as an Assistant Manager – Legal.

    In this interview, we asked her about:

    • Law School experience
    • Importance of internships and co curricular activities
    • Strategies used while working with different law firms and companies

     

    Why did you decide to study Law? What inspired you to do so? How did you get through to Pravin Gandhi College of Law?

    How the idea of studying law crossed my mind is a very difficult question to answer! Ever since I was a twelve year old, I had pretty much made up my mind to study law. As a twelve year old I had practically zero exposure to what it would be like; but then languages, debates and drama were strong points of interest throughout my school time. I guess law was an extension to doing what I loved the most!

    Well, I guess it was one of those strong intuitive decisions which guide you and shape your future that might’ve inspired me.

    I missed getting into the premier law college in Mumbai and took up admission at another law college closer to home with the intention of working hard in the first year and then getting into that particular premier law college in my second year. However, two months into the course, PGCL (then known as SVKM’s college of law) published an advertisement that admissions for their new five year course were open. Knowing SVKM’s reputation of arranging world class facilities and the best faculty for all their courses, I jumped at the opportunity and moved. I am from the first batch to have passed out of the college. Making that move is one decision I am proud of!

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My key interest areas during my graduation were Intellectual Property Rights, Cyber Laws and Media & Entertainment Laws. My sister has done her MBA in marketing and my best friend is a Creative Designer; hence, I was always over exposed to the world of brands, ads and everything related! I think it was natural for my interest to lie in these areas! A silly confession – I am a brand buff and love advertisements. I am one of the few people who refrain from changing channels during advertisements.

    I had a fabulous college life, where the principal of our college along with the great faculty, ensured that each student’s interests were shown. They arranged for guest lectures and short workshops in various areas of law to ensure that all the students made an informed decision about their future.

    IPR was taken care of in college as a part of the Mumbai University curriculum and I took up a six month certificate course in Cyber Laws from ASCL, Pune. This course provided me with an extensive understanding in Cyber Laws, cases, practical problems and solutions and of course the newly introduced (at that time) Information & Technology Act.

     

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    As a law student which activities did you participate in? Did you have any guidance on how to go about your academics, co-curricular activities and internships?

    Since we were the first batch, we took up the initiative of setting up the Moot Court Society in our college. I was one of the founder members of the MCS along with few of my batch mates. I have participated primarily in Moot Court competitions in college and also in Client Counselling competitions, essay writing competitions and debates.

    As the years started going by and we grew as an institute, we started taking up the roles as mentors and organizers of various moots in college. We also ensured that the best team gets to represent our college in moots held by other colleges.

    Whatever that I may say about the faculty and guidance, would be less. They ensured that we had great firms/organizations/NGOs coming in for our internships and ensured that we got good exposure in whatever field that we wanted. Of course it was difficult initially being a new college, but we did phenomenally well! We had a very transparent set-up for everything and could openly share ideas and take initiatives for everything from internships, co-curricular activities and even guest lectures.

    Our college organized a one of a kind three day festival called ‘Shartrartha’ which had a series of lectures and discussions by legal luminaries. We had screenings of several trial films followed by discussions on the practicality and applicability.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships which might’ve contributed towards shaping your career choices?

    I’ve had varied internships throughout my college years. However, I was never working straight throughout those five years since I loved being in college and was actively involved in the fests, moots, etc. I have interned at a full service law firm in my second year (when I hadn’t even started studying the legal subjects) and went back there subsequently in my 3rd year as well. The firm gave me exposure in all sorts of litigation matters, civil and criminal, the nuances of contracts and some knowledge on IPR as well. I used to do a lot of research there, which form the basis of my research skills today.

    Towards the end of my college, I interned at a full service IPR firm, which gave me faith that I could make it as an IP lawyer while reassuring my love for IPR as well. My senior in this firm gave me a lot of insight on Trademarks and the practical applications of what we learn in college. I predominantly did the drafting of replies to the objections raised by the Trademark Registry so it was a stepping stone to what was in store!

    So these internships have shaped different skills and are a founding stone of everything that followed.

     

    What do you feel about the perception that students of certain ‘elite’ NLU’s have a much easier time in kick-starting their career as compared to law students from other colleges? Is this true at all?

    As much as I don’t want to believe it, it is true. Due to the curriculum and demi-god statuses of the National Law Schools, they manage to get the best internships, best placements and even better salaries. And it is not only the National Schools. It is even between the premier law colleges in cities vis-à-vis the others. I know how many times I have answered questions about my college and why I was not from the premier law college and what my college did. I have seen the scornful look on the faces of prospective employers when they hear that you are not from a particular college. In fact, even after a great interview, things have not worked out because I was not from a particular college.

    I think it is high time the perception changes. People should be judged by their qualifications and talent rather than a name backing their education.

     

    After graduating from Pravin Gandhi College of Law you joined ‘India Law Services’ as an Associate. How did the appointment take place?

    After completing law, I was looking for a suitable job to kick start my career. I got to know through a friend that ‘India Law Services’ was looking to hire and so I sent my resume. I met the IP partner and it all fell in place.

     

    You left India Law Services and had joined V.A. Associates. What led to this shift? How was your experience working there?

    Joining V.A. Associates was technically not a shift. The IP partner of ‘India Law Services’ started his own practice and hence the entire team shifted with him. This experience, as I always maintain, was my college to the practical world. Mr. Parelkar is one of the most knowledgeable persons I have come across and to top it, he loves to share his knowledge. I’ve got a great exposure because of him and learned the procedural aspects of IP law, infringement suits and the works. While I was only assisting in suits, it gave me an insight into what is expected in a trademark infringement suit and what must be covered to get a favourable order. I got exposure into the functioning of the Trademark Registry and the nuances of dealing with them. This was also the first real experience at dealing with the clients and the Trademark Registry.

    To sum up, all my skills have been honed by Mr. Parelkar and I would not be what I am and where I am if it were not for this experience.

     

    You thereafter left V.A. Associates to start working at Wockhardt Ltd. as Senior Legal Executive. What prompted you to keep changing your job so frequently? What was the nature of your work there?

    After working with ILS/VA Associates (which as I explained earlier was not a shift), it was time to spread my wings. I was looking for an opportunity where I could get exposure to the other aspects of IP. Even though my primary interests always have been in Media & Entertainment or Technology, Wockhardt came about and I decided to take it on since Pharma was booming as an industry and lot was happening in the Pharma IP space. My profile was IPR but my responsibility grew manifold. In Wockhardt I was handling a portfolio of 2500-3000 brands and we did everything in-house. We did not engage external counsels, except for litigations.

    The working of a company is completely different than that of a law firm. We were a small team of five-six lawyers and maintained a policy of one-for-all and all-for-one. My senior Debolina Partap might have seen something in me, for she gave me exposure in so many aspects, apart from IP. She groomed me to be an in-house counsel. By the time I left, we had set up a full procedure and SOP for the trademarks/copyrights of the company, I had interacted with a bouquet of law firms internationally for our trademarks, which gave me so much exposure to the Trade Mark policies in various countries and also helped me establish a network. These experiences are really important to shape your future and take you to the next step. I have done several TM litigations, legal notices, and been a keen observer in negotiations, which have all helped me grow in more ways than I can explain. I have done Drug Litigations which involved different laws and had me interact with various government officials. It was also the first time that I got a practical insight into compliances and labour issues. Even though the exposure was limited, I had a lot to learn. I cannot sign off without thanking the organization for giving me my first ever Divestment Transaction. The myriad levels of interaction, the due diligence, IP streamlining, documentation, numerous negotiations and discussions were an experience which I cannot justify with words. Understanding the dynamics of an organization and also the correlation between departments of a company is something that I have Wockhardt and Ms. Debolina to thank for.

     

    You’ve recently joined Viacom 18 Media Private Limited as an Assistant Manager – Legal. How did the switch from Wockhardt take place? Did you get an offer or did you apply for Viacom?

    Viacom 18 was a dream job. I remember wishing that I somehow land a job there every time I crossed the building. As I said, Media & Entertainment laws have always been a key interest of mine. I was ecstatic when the consultant called me for an interview. While Pharma is extremely lucid and has a lot to offer, I felt it was time to finally pursue a dream job and make the switch before I got labelled as a Pharma Counsel.

    The consultant called me with this opportunity and needless to say, I jumped at it. I was extremely uncertain of landing the job, given my non-media exposure, but my boss may have seen something in me, which I am forever indebted for.

     

    What does your current work profile at Viacom 18 consists of? How is a typical workday like?

    I am predominantly responsible for the IPR portfolio here as well. Viacom18 is growing every day in terms of IP and the issues are completely different. I am getting more exposure in Copyright and different areas and dimensions of IPRs which are specific to the Media and Entertainment industry. We have also undertaken to sensitize our Business Units to the TM/Copyright Law and hold training for them regularly. I have also been assigned a portion of the litigation profile, which of course is very different from the litigations I am used to handling. So in that sense I am still taking my baby steps with litigation here. My boss, Thomas George is a phenomenal person and is one of the very few “born intelligent” people. He comes from a litigation background, so he is guiding me at managing the litigations like a lawyer, rather than a Manager/In-House Counsel. He teaches in a way that one will never forget for their entire lives. I have a lot to learn from him and hopefully I am taking away as much as I can from his experiences. We have a great team here which is always willing to share and help each other. Everyone is super cool and friendly. It seems like I am working with friends, which makes work twice as exciting. I look forward to every single day here.

    A typical workday is filled with lots of work and lots of fun too. Our day starts at 10.30am and is always action packed. There are several days which are busier than others if there are deadlines in terms of notices, responses to file and if there are several matters on board for that week. But we ensure to get our daily dose of fun as well. So as I said earlier, I really look forward to each day here!

     

    Does Viacom 18 take interns? What is the process for same?

    Yes. Viacom 18 does take interns. It is need based and we usually route it through HR. Sometimes, we can refer an intern to the team in need for one. However, we do not have a regular policy for taking interns or GTs in the team.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    It is true to the last word. While your school or college will lay the foundation stone, it is the practice and what you take out of those experiences that shape the rest of your career and future. You may study the law but will not know which provisions are applicable till you actually do a case involving that law. Further, it is not about the law. It is also about strategy, sometimes avoiding the conflict and how you tie up the interest of the Business unit/client and the facts, to put your best foot forward. Communication is also extremely important. What and how much to say and when is also an important part of the exposure.

    In my case, I believe that every experience I have had during these years has taught me something. Practical aspects of the law can sometimes be very different from what it may appear in theory. This distinction will come only as you move ahead. I have been lucky to have had some great experiences and seniors who have really helped me get till where I am.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Law is an amazing field to be in if it gives you the kick. I have never wanted to be anything else. In today’s day and age, when everything can be ‘managed’ it is important to be true to yourself and the profession. We are a big lot and have the power to do a lot if we wish!

    Cherish all your professional experiences. Every challenge you are faced with leaves a lasting impression. So I urge the readers to always be open to getting the best of the experiences, both good and bad. Trust me, the bad ones teach lessons for life! And the good ones stay with you as a fond memory and a teaching for life!

  • Rahul Rai, Competition/Antitrust & Trade Lawyer, AZB Partners on LL.M in International Trade Law from Stanford Law School

    Rahul Rai, Competition/Antitrust & Trade Lawyer, AZB Partners on LL.M in International Trade Law from Stanford Law School

    Rahul Rai graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata in 2006 and got a PPO from Economic Laws Practice after interning there twice. He joined as an Associate after graduating and worked mostly on international trade and competition law matters.

    In 2011, he decided to pursue an LL.M and got in at Stanford Law School in the USA. He describes his LL.M experience, talks about the world-class professors and facilities and his time as an Article Editor of the International Law Journal.

    After returning to India, he joined AZB & Partners and contributed in building their competition law practice. Here, he talks about:

    • Why he didn’t take up any extra-curricular activities in law school
    • His experience as an Associate at Economic Laws Practice
    • The biggest reason he got through to Stanford Law School, USA
    • Joining AZB & Partners upon his return to India

     

    Please tell us a bit about yourself. How would you like to be introduced to our readers?

    I am a competition and international trade (WTO law) lawyer working with AZB & Partners in Bombay.

     

    rahul-rai-2How did you come to know about the newly established WBNUJS? What helped you gravitate towards law?

    Like most kids from my part of the country, I too aspired to crack the IIT-JEE. Like many, I bombed through class XI and XII and unless my parents were to buy a management quota seat in some forlorn engineering college; I stood no chance of becoming an engineer. Even if I were to get into an engineering college, I was confident about my incompetence. Throughout high school I had loved studying non-science subjects like history, economics, and civics. I fleetingly heard about Professor Madhav Menon and the National Law School in Bangalore. Law as a possible career option was becoming more and more promising- it offered the escape from sciences and also promised reasonably well-paid jobs upon graduation. The prospect of landing decent jobs helped win over my parents and their fascination of seeing their son in an IIT. The prospect of getting over the baggage of disastrous XI-XII performance (I got 2/100 in Maths in the first semester in class XI and passed my XIIth with 43/100), never to look back at sciences, studying subjects that I had enjoyed in high school and yet be hopeful of a decent job upon graduation made me zero down on law as a possible career. Thereafter, it was simple. In 2001 Google was relatively new but was catching up as a research tool. I went searching for National Law School, Bangalore and found a thread talking about Professor Menon’s move to Calcutta as the founding Vice-Chancellor of WBNUJS. I wrote the WBNUJS entrance test, got through but failed to crack the entrance to National Law School, Bangalore. So I ended up in Calcutta and WBNUJS.

     

    How would you describe your time at WBNUJS? Did you partake in extracurricular activities?

    Time at WBNUJS was fun. I entered NUJS with three other friends from school. All four of us had struggled in similar fashion to find a roof over our heads after class XII. The five years at NUJS made me cement the friendship for life. I also met some very interesting and nice people and the friendships forged during college days continue to this day. That is one of my most cherished takeaway from NUJS. Academically, when I look back, I can count 5 out of 50 subjects that were taught brilliantly. I just loved G. Ajay’s Political Science, Prof. Rudranshu Mukheerjee’s History, Prof. BS Chimni + Ms. Sheela Rai + Prof. Mritiunjoy Mohanty’s International Trade Law and M.V. Shiju’s Constitutional and Competition Law courses.

    Extracurricular activities were a strict no for me. I had spent my high school days in boarding school chasing (with reasonable success) the trophies in debates, elocutions and sports and decided to do nothing in law school unless it interested me. So, all I did, was sleep, read a few books, and spend just so much energy on studies that would offer a fighting shot at jobs.

     

    Right after graduating, you started working at Economic Laws Practice. How did the appointment take place? How difficult were the first few months of ELP given that it focuses mainly on a specific field of law?

    I had enjoyed studying International Trade Law and had done reasonably well in the course. With some good luck I landed an internship at ELP, Bombay. I think I worked hard and that got noticed. I got another opportunity to intern with ELP and I decided to work in their Delhi office. Back in 2006 there were 6 associates in their office and Samir Gandhi led the International trade practice in Delhi. Again, I think I worked hard and ELP made an offer.

    First few months at ELP were difficult. I could barely draft a two sentence email and within the first month I was working on a full blown WTO dispute. Samir was and continues to be a great mentor. I struggled with drafting for about 8-10 months and finally one day I got a draft without any red marks! Working in the area of International Trade law and doing a WTO dispute was more of fun than a challenge.

     

    How did you build up your expertise in competition and trade law? Please tell us a bit about your work profile at ELP.

    I had joined ELP with the idea of working in the area of International Trade law and the hope that someday when the Competition Act, 2002 becomes operational, take up competition law as well. I spent most of the first eighteen months at ELP working on the WTO Dispute with the US on additional and extra-additional duties on import of alcoholic beverages. I would spend 8 hours in the office and another two to three hours reading up on WTO laws. I guess once you become a lawyer, there is no substitute for reading legal texts and commentaries. I just read as much as I could between Monday to Friday, week after week and month after month while at ELP.

    Sometime in late 2007 I saw an advertisement from the Competition Commission of India for conducting market studies. I took the idea to Samir, who was extremely supportive and so was Mr. Suhail Nathani, my ultimate reporting partner at ELP. We put in our proposal to run a study on the interface between antidumping and antitrust law, the Commission accepted it and thus began my career as a competition lawyer. Again, I read and read- there is just no substitute.

    The work profile at ELP was just what I had asked for- mix of litigation, advisory and policy. Above all, ELP offered the opportunity to do what I wanted to do- trade and competition work.

     

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    What prompted you to opt for an LL.M from Stanford Law School? How difficult would you say it was gaining admission?

    The desire to study for LL.M. was driven more by the idea of experiencing life in a very good university and not so much by learning ‘law’ a little more. Perhaps, I wanted to make good for the ignominy of not even coming close to cracking IIT-JEE (I was ranked somewhere around 99000 in prelims)! An LL.M. in the US back in 2011 cost about USD 75K and therefore I wanted to go to a place which ranked amongst the very best. Stanford Law School, of course does not need my certificate. I lucked out, despite my not so great rank and CGPA at WBNUJS, Stanford granted me a seat. In retrospect I think, it was all because of my work experience at ELP.

     

    Did you apply for any scholarships? How was the academic culture at SLS?

    Stanford Law School does not offer any scholarships to LL.M.s and I had secured the Hugo Grotius scholarship at Michigan. So, it was a tough call. In the end, the lure for the sun and sand in California took me to Stanford. I also tried my luck for INLAKS where I did not even make the shortlist.

    The best part about Stanford Law School was the absence of a formal grading system which made the law school such a fun place. Once you stop pitting students against each other and get rid of the system where one student will necessarily be ranked first and other ranked last, studies become fun. Students no longer run after CGPA, take up courses that they really like and above all study than aim for the top CGPA/rank. Like most top law schools in the US, Stanford attracts the very best of faculty and students. The professors are the very best, the peer group is the most diverse and extraordinarily talented. The law school promotes multidisciplinary education in the truest sense. Some of my friends were able to take up courses at the design school, others opted for ‘coding’. I had read a little on Francis Fukuyama’s work and never knew that he taught at Stanford. Realising this, I ran to register for his introductory course of political theory and despite being very selective he was just glad to take in a trade and competition lawyer with nothing but pop political science theories to offer. Likewise, I wanted to try courses at the Stanford GSB and was able to take up one of the most sought after courses-“Build your own start-up”. If I have to sum up the academic culture at Stanford, I would say that it offers the opportunity to try different things, perhaps fail, try again and in the end if nothing works out then walk out with an experience that will certainly make you a better person, if nothing else.

     

    You were also an editor of the reputed Stanford Journal of International Law. How did this opportunity come to you?

    Stanford Law School is fairly small but has significant resources. So it offers more opportunities than one can make good of in a year’s time. Every year, the student run law journals invite applications for editors. I had spent close to four years doing trade work and so I tried my luck with the International Law Journal. It worked and I got selected as one of the article editors.

    The experience though was a little ‘under-whelming’ considering how correcting footnotes can be quite boring. The article I edited was written by one of the top trade law practitioners and it was fun to read the primary sources and test the author’s propositions.

     

    How would you say in retrospect your experience in LL.M. helped you in gaining more knowledge and expertise in competition law? Would you suggest other lawyers having a similar profile to opt for an LL.M.?

    Yes. I studied competition law under Professor Mark Lemley, who is without a doubt one of the very best professors in IP and Antitrust and Charles Koob who has one of the most unparalleled profiles as a practitioner. The lessons in Antitrust and assignments have indeed helped in the manner in which I approach an issue now.

    I would most certainly recommend people to opt for an LL.M. at Stanford. If nothing you’d come back with a lot of good friends and even if you sleep through the classes, the activity surrounding you will leave you richer in many different ways.

     

    After finishing your LL.M. you started work at AZB & Partners. What prompted you to join AZB? Were there other career options available to you?

    Of course I wanted to spend sometime in the U.S. and had managed to secure an offer from one the top firm’s with their antitrust practice in Washington DC. The law firm withdrew the offer after a few weeks of extending it. I had to come scurrying back to India and look for a job. Although AZB did not have an established competition law practice, Samir and my colleagues from ELP had moved to AZB. I spoke to Samir and Zia and was convinced about the firm’s focus on building the competition law practice. Zia was and continues to be very enthusiastic about competition law and that was a big plus. The prospect of reuniting with the old team at a firm that promised to invest in a new area of law made the decision to join AZB a fairly simple one.

    I would have considered sticking around in the U.S. if we completed the “Build your own start up” course at Stanford GSB by securing the seed capital from a venture fund. All VCs told us we were ahead of the curve (polite way of saying the idea sucks). Once the start up dream failed to take off, and the DC law firm withdrew its offer, I came back to India.  AZB happened and I did not try my luck at any other firm.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own? Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building a reputation?

    The romance of doing litigation never got to me. I had grown up seeing a generation of my family and family friends with nothing short of master degrees looking for jobs and not finding any. Deep down I wanted a JOB and at the moment I am happy with the sense of security the monthly pay cheque provides.

    I don’t necessarily see a disconnection between the opportunity offered by law firms and building reputation. All professions are about building trust and maintaining one’s credibility. In a law firm setting, one has to first gain the trust of his/her colleagues, immediate seniors, then the partner and finally the clients. I like the system where you are slowly exposed to different levels of responsibilities. Once you have won the trust of colleagues, seniors, partners and clients, recognition will come. On the point of building reputation I do not see any trade offs between a law firm career track and private practice track. One has to earn the trust of everyone around whether at a law firm or at a counsel’s chamber. Become trustworthy and then recognition is bound to come.

     

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    There is a massive gulf between what is taught at law schools and what is expected from an associate at a law firm. If you manage to learn something, there is a good chance that you will have to unlearn it all once you start working. I generally think that most students walking out of the law schools have more or less the same level of intelligence and certainly sufficient intelligence to become a successful lawyer. The real differentiator is communication skills- written and spoken. The good part is that you need not be a gifted writer or orator- these skills can be acquired. And for that you need to be very very careful in the first job you pick. Rather, the decision to take up a job should primarily be driven by the senior you’d work with. If you find the right senior, the battle is half won. And if the senior has the time and patience to guide you, then nothing like it. Else just observing every single word he/she writes and speaks, analyze the difference in approach, and very soon you would develop your own style, tempered by the basic dos and don’ts taught by the senior.

    The other skill set that law schools can never provide is the ability to handle pressure. As you progress in your career, the pressure points will change and you’d see yourself struggling again. It is a continuous process and I am yet to reach a stage where I can start preaching.

     

    What is your current work profile at AZB? How can an intern be of help while trying to learn?

    I do a mix of competition and trade law work. I would say about 85% of my work is in competition law. In competition, a bulk of my work involves representation in behavioural cases and merger notifications to the CCI. Increasingly companies are approaching us for risk assessment on their business practice and guidance on mitigating risks. We loosely call it competition advisory and compliance. In International Trade I do the occasional representation for an exporter in an anti-dumping or safeguard duty investigation.

    Interns are quite valuable as the colleagues are working full time. We try and involve interns in ongoing assignments for all types of work, including research and drafting of bits and pieces of let’s say an appeal memo. All that I look for in an intern is ability and willingness to work hard and with diligence.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    To continue to work for a long period in a law firm set up can be challenging. Unless you enjoy the work, there is just no way that you will survive. So, pick the area of law that interests you the most and make a career out of that.

  • Mrinali Kaul, Associate at Talwar Thakore, on the Company Secretary course, grades, internships and an ideal law school life

    Mrinali Kaul, Associate at Talwar Thakore, on the Company Secretary course, grades, internships and an ideal law school life

    Mrinali Kaul graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2012. She is a qualified Company Secretary and has an enviable academic record and an excellent series of internships at top law firms. As a law student she has been quite active and participated in many debates, MUNs and conferences. By the time she graduated, she had received a job offer from Talwar Thakore & Associates and is currently working there as an Associate.

    We have taken this opportunity to ask her about the several decisive moments in her career amongst other things including:

    • Importance of internships and maintaining grades
    • Importance of extra-curricular activities in law school
    • Completing the Company Secretary course alongside law studied
    • Work at TT&A

     

    When did you think you were suited to a career in law? How did you get through to ILS?

    Pursuing a career in the legal field was always at the back of my mind whenever I used to read novels written by Jeffrey Archer and John Grisham. The fact that top-notch orators and politicians in the country were lawyers by qualification added to the charm of being a part of this respected profession. Being a lawyer was also listed as one of my possible career choices through an aptitude test that had been conducted in my school, DPS Greater Noida. I made the final decision to take up law and become a first generation lawyer quite late in the day i.e., after giving my class 12th board exams. According to me, the pre-requisites for a career in law are that one should have a good command over the English language, ability to reason, self-confidence and be able to put forth one’s views in a coherent manner. I believed that I possessed the necessary skillset to be a successful lawyer and therefore chose law as my calling.

    ILS admits students based on their class 12th marks and an interview thereafter. As I had a reasonably good score of 94% in class 12th, I was able to join ILS for the five year law course.

     

    Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree?

    [sociallocker]The subject which I enjoyed most was company law and this paved the way for a career in corporate law. Company law is like the Holy Bible for those planning to join a corporate law firm and it is essential to be well-versed with it. What I liked about this subject was the logical manner in which it can be understood and one can draw references from the corporate world for understanding any concept. The linkage to the corporate world made it a really interesting subject to grasp and understand.

     

    Did you ever indulge in academic legal writing? What, in your opinion, are the advantages of taking part in such activities?

    Yes, I did indulge in legal writing and the articles were published in my college journal as well as in relation to the Company Secretary course. I also represented my college in moot court competitions and quiz competitions in the various law festivals held in different colleges. I have also attended conferences individually and presented my papers there. Such events are an integral part of a law student’s life as they help you to go beyond academics and also shape your personality for the future. Often one ends up forging lifelong friendships and making useful contacts at these inter-college events. Therefore, I would definitely recommend everyone to take part in one or the other event at least once in their law school life. I do not think making it mandatory serves the purpose as then students would merely do it to fetch marks and the intention to do something on your own initiative will be lost. Law schools should not spoon-feed the students and it should be left at the discretion of the students to choose whether to pursue such activities or not.

     

    mrinali-kaul-2

    During graduation, you interned with top-notch law firms. Are there remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    My internship choices were primarily guided by my inclination to work in a corporate law firm upon graduation and therefore, I wanted to gain as much exposure as possible by interning in the top law firms in the country. During internships, I was mostly allotted research work relating to company law, securities and banking law. I have also been involved in due diligence exercises being undertaken at these firms and preparing memos on various legal issues. These internships made me realize that corporate law is really an all-encompassing term and there is a lot for me to learn in this field. Therefore, I wanted to join a corporate law firm after graduation to be able to realise my potential in this field.

     

    Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kick start a good career in the legal profession?

    Definitely, a great CGPA opens doors for you to bag the best internships- be it with law firms, senior counsels or even companies. It is a crucial factor during recruitments as most organisations have certain minimum CGPA requirements which one needs to satisfy to be eligible to even apply for a position as an Associate. However, having said this, marks are not the only determining factor in the long run and it is your knowledge and its application that counts ultimately.

     

    You had also managed to pursue the company secretary course. Tell us why did you chose to do it and how did you manage it with college?

    The course in ILS is structured in such a manner that it leaves you with ample time to pursue other courses, hobbies, activities, etc and pursuing two courses simultaneously was not really a difficult task. If you’re smart and efficient about your studies and prioritise well, it is quite a cakewalk. As I had joined law school with the intention of joining a corporate law firm upon graduation, I wanted to acquire any knowledge which would help me in the professional world and this is where the company secretary course came into the picture with its offering of an integrated approach to multi-disciplinary subjects such as law, business, finance, economics and accounts. Coming from a science background in school, I found this course to give me an edge over my peers as it covered newer areas of law such as competition, securities markets. These subjects were not taught as part of our curriculum in law school; hence this additional knowledge placed me ahead of my batch mates and also helped me in securing my job.

     mrinali-kaul-1

    Does graduating from a prestigious school make a difference in landing a good job in this field?

    Yes, to a certain extent in the initial years, graduating from a prestigious law school does have its benefits in the recruitment scenario. However, having said that, if you’re intelligent, hardworking and smart, there’s no reason that you should be denied an opportunity irrespective of the law school you have graduated from.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined Talwar Thakore and Associate as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How was your interview? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    My appointment at TT&A happened through the placement committee of my college. The selection process was two-fold: the first step involved sending my resume and an application form which covered questions relating to my skills and achievements, reasons for becoming a corporate lawyer and wanting to join the firm, etc. Subsequently, the shortlisted candidates were called for a personal interview to the firm’s office in Mumbai. The interview was very relaxed and I was asked to talk about myself and questioned based on my resume. I was also given a case-study based on which my critical and reasoning skills were tested and two days later, I was given the good news that I had been chosen to join the firm.

    This was the only interview that I gave and cracked, so here are the tips from my limited interview experience:

    • Be thorough with your resume and know it like the back of your hand;
    • Research on your prospective employer firm;
    • Stay calm;
    • Maintain eye contact with all your interviewers;
    • Be properly dressed; and
    • Put your cell phone in silent mode.

     

    How tough was the first year of law firm?

    Working in a law firm as an associate is a completely different ball game from interning in one. You have to be responsible and take complete ownership of your work product. Fortunately, at TT&A, we have a very healthy working environment and all the partners and senior lawyers are very encouraging and helpful and make sure that you blend in very easily with everyone and feel at home in the firm. Honestly, I did not find the first year tough. Certainly, it involved a lot of learning as what we are taught at law school is purely theoretical. But I can safely say that with the amazing work culture at TT&A, I sailed through it like a breeze!

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein and what’s a typical day like? What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    At TT&A, in the initial stage of our career, we are not compartmentalized in different sectors like corporate, banking, capital markets but are allowed to work on a wide range of transactions across all practice areas that the firm has to offer. This allows us to gain exposure to a variety of legal issues across multi-disciplinary jurisdictions and decide on our specialization thereafter. I have been involved in due-diligences, drafting of transaction documents in corporate and banking transactions, preparing research memorandums and notes.
    A typical day involves researching on contentious issues, drafting transaction related documents, discussions with senior colleagues and responding to client queries by email or over calls with them. The most challenging aspect of my job has to be beating the deadlines and making sure the work product meets the clients’ expectations. My work doesn’t involve litigation and taxation at all.

     

    Does your qualification in law and company secretary complement each other in terms of your work?

    Definitely, the company secretary curriculum is such that it equips you with not only legal knowledge required in the corporate world but also the business and the financial angle of a transaction. This inter-disciplinary knowledge comes very handy during transactions as it helps you to understand the bigger picture and not merely the legal issues involved.

     

    Where do you see your career going from here?

    I aim to grow with my firm and get more experience while working on the transactions, be it in corporate, capital markets or the banking sector. I am still at a nascent stage of my career and it is important for me to absorb and gain as much knowledge as possible to build upon it later.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    Be focussed, work hard and enjoy life!

     [/sociallocker]

  • Aditya Chopra, Legal Counsel, Sahara India on utility of mooting and CGPA in life after law school

    Aditya Chopra, Legal Counsel, Sahara India on utility of mooting and CGPA in life after law school

    Aditya Chopra is a graduate from Institute of Law, Nirma University (Batch of 2012). He has a noteworthy academic, mooting and debating record. His diligence and mettle at work was recognized when he received a job offer from Sahara India, Mumbai in last year of law school. He currently works as an in-house counsel there.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics, internships, debates and moots
    • His journey from an intern to getting job offer from Sahara India
    • Work as in-house counsel at Sahara India

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Hello, my friends!

    They say a lawyer needs to be a jack of all trades. I believe in it but with slight improvement. In this competitive world, where law profession is no more a family business, a budding lawyer needs to be a jack of all trades – at least in the initial five – ten years, one needs to have a multiplicity of experience to become a master of one. Post my graduation from Nirma University, I started my career with ASA Legal and thereafter, I worked with Advocate Ravi Prakash (Partner, DSK Legal, Delhi). I am currently working as the Legal Consultant to Mr. Seemanto Roy, promoter of the esteemed Sahara India Pariwar. I do not believe in a stereotypical way of ‘lawyering’. I look at a problem from a multi-dimensional angle and like to explore and test all the possibilities and alternatives for my client.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family? Does a legal background help in the long run? Did any of your family members motivate you to pursue a legal career? Why did you decide to study law?

    I am the first one to break the ice in the lineage. With zero motivation from anyone in my family, it was my sole decision to go ahead in this line. Although my father did law but later on he decided to join a public sector bank. But I never ever felt hesitant or under-confident about it, as lawyering is all about confidence whether you are appearing in the Court or dealing with the clients during transactions.

    Certainly, a legal background helps. I do not deny it, be it for securing an internship to sometimes getting a job or later on for hooking the clients. But again, the merits of a lawyer or his approach towards a matter or the ability to deliver to the client – these traits always remain individual-specific and cannot be attained through heritage. So, there could be advantages to certain degrees (may be 10-20%), but in the end, in the longer run, everyone’s fate in the profession would be tested on his/her capacity to retain the knowledge (memory), maintain the immense pressure (patience) and the readiness to work (determination).

    Though I never dreamt of becoming a lawyer from childhood, but while growing up, I always used to testify everything on the touchstone of rationality and logical sense. And that’s how when I got to know that there is an extensive five-year integrated course to offer by law schools over the traditional 3 years post-graduation (this realisation was only 10 days before the last date of filling out the forms of the colleges, some even got missed), I grabbed the opportunity.

     

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    Tell us about your time at Nirma University. What all activities did you participate in?

    Spending five years in law school just after coming out from high school obviously shapes one’s identity and has indeed influenced my personality as well. It was like a leap of faith for me to join Nirma and it prepared me not only for the multi-faceted profession of law but also gave me one the most enjoyable and memorable years of my life.

    Everything at Nirma was a challenge in itself, as we were the pilot batch and therefore, we were always the subjects of the experiments conducted by the Institute on a trial and error basis. Life at Nirma was all about discipline with the most stringent rules of attendance. We were regularly assessed like any other good law school, not only on the basis of mid-sems and end-semester examinations, but in between, we also used to be bombarded with projects, term assignments, quizzes, research papers and moot courts etc. with strictest deadlines. This not only sharpened my research skills, but I also got trained to find right information at the right place in the limited time and helped enhancing my multi-tasking skills.

    I always liked to play a participatory role in all the activities taking place at the college by organizing moot competitions or conferences or lectures etc. I was lucky to represent my University in moot court competitions on national and international levels like 8th Surana and Surana International Law Moot Court Competition, 6th Leiden Air Law International Moot Court Competition and Willem C. Viz International Commercial Arbitration, Vienna etc apart from participating in various debate competitions.

     

    How has been your experience serving different committees while at Law School?

    I used to be really active in all the activities taking place at the Institute by being the part of the different committees in all the semesters like Moot Court Committee, Debating Committee, Organizing Committee, Cultural Committee etc.

    That’s the advantage of being part of the very first batch of the Institute, though we lacked experience in terms of strong alumni, but we hardly cared. We never had to follow any settled irrational norms of the college. We were constantly exploring, always on our toes, growing as an Institute. From collecting funds to managing huge sponsorships from the market for organizing a moot court competition to orienting juniors with mooting skills – to organize cultural events, I took interest in all. And I give a huge credit to our Director Mrs. Purvi Pokhariyal and her team to push us to every corner possible. They all mentored and supported us well during our initial times and then gave us the freedom to question and be the part of the norms set by the college.

    I think it’s really significant to work or be a part of at least some of the student committees, as it really teaches how to work in a team with the people coming from different backgrounds with different thought-processes to reach an amicable solution and if not much, it really teaches you to be tolerant to the people you may not like otherwise.

     

    How do you recall your internships? Did you learn many skills while interning?

    It was part of our course curriculum to intern after every semester for a month. My internship experience includes working with AMSS, AZB, Trilegal and Phoenix Legal, law clerkship with the erstwhile Supreme Court Judge – Hon’ble Mr. Justice Surinder Singh Nijjar. Since ours was the first batch, it was really difficult to secure internships as the big law firms would not recognise us due to lack of our alumni. Therefore, initially I had secured internships only through personal references and gradually I understood the pattern of the firms to accept applications for internships. One should prepare a strategy for early and well drafted applications to the appropriate firms and at the same needs to be really patient enough to accept a rejection from almost any kind of firm – big or small.

    These internships were extremely instrumental in shaping my legal career when I look back now. It provides an opportunity for students to get practical exposure of work, the application of different laws which are freshly taught in the law schools. Plus the best part is you get to interact with interns from different law schools which help in growing your network in the longer run.

     

    You have participated in various moot court competitions. How do you look at this exercise?

    This is one of the most delightful experiences which Nirma gifted me through mooting – I was lucky enough to travel across the country and overseas to taste its fruits.

    As, I mentioned earlier also, Nirma was extremely strict in terms of attendance. We could never bunk. I swear, I can count on my fingers the times, I got lucky.  There was literally no way anyone could excuse the classes – except mooting and debating. And when I realised this, I was game for it.

    From the very first year, we were given the opportunity to represent our Institute on the national level, but that opportunity was provided only after tough screening at the college level through an intra-college mooting panel or debating panel. Either being the member of the first team to represent the College at the 7th NLSIU Parliamentary Debate in my first year and a part of the first team to go international and participate in the Willem C. Viz International Commercial Arbitration at Vienna, Austria in my final year, it was a constant ride of learning. Due to lack of seniors’ guidance, especially in the first two years, sometimes we got confronted of our short-comings only at the venue of the competition. But I never got disappointed by that, instead learnt from the best teams, went back to college, polished myself and managed bringing laurels to the college.

    I think it is always good to participate in Moot Courts. Moot Courts are the closest experience that you can get to – appearing in a court involving a hypothetical case involving a moot question of law – you read books on different subjects, research, frame arguments, prepare memorials and appear before a hypothetical Court (where judges are always keen to take your case and officially rag you). It helps you at the student level itself to learn to identify the questions of law from the questions of fact, it hones up your research skills and finally organizing a legal argument issue by issue in the time bound manner. Mooting brings out the best in you to put across an argument, justify it with an intensive research with the combination of court-mannerism and court crafting.

    I would not say that it has helped me getting a job instantly. But mooting is in itself a cherishing experience and it certainly adds to one’s resume as a prospective employer would always go for a well-rounded person over a simple aggregation of the marks scored in all the semesters.

     

    You are currently working at Sahara India. How did you go about getting recruited there? Please tell us about the recruitment process at Sahara India.

    My recruitment at Sahara was an example of Talent poaching. My last office was working with Sahara’s team in a particular litigation, where I got the opportunity to interact and work personally with one of the promoters of the company. Unlike the usual selection of Sahara which starts from sourcing and interview, I was just offered the joining letter with the specified date and I embraced it. I feel privileged for the same.

     

    How important according to you is CGPA in building a career in the legal industry?

    CGPA cannot be the final determination to one’s legal education. But, when a law student applies for a job, the first thing would be the curriculum vitae (CV) and the attention of the interviewer would obviously go to the CGPA first. Undoubtedly, the first impression is created by your academic achievements which rightly includes CGPA, though I agree, cannot be the ultimate indicator as I never found myself convinced to run in the chase of 9 and 10 pointers.

    I would recommend a more balanced approach to the law school life, inclusive of all the flavours and opportunities a law school can offer. It’s worthwhile to focus on extra-curricular activities like mooting, debating, writing articles etc. – it all acts as building blocks in the formative years of the profession.

     

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. Would you agree?

    Most of the large companies, rather than outsourcing all its legal work to law firms, have lawyers on its board to represent the company’s legal interest who are known as “in-house” counsels.

    There is a popular belief that working with companies is less demanding. I think it all depends more on the company’s legal approach. As per my experience, working with a company calls for a greater responsibility and work-life balance does not happen so easily. Unlike with the law firms, the approach towards a given task is taken with far greater concern rather than just being ‘another clients’ work’. Any advice tendered should be well founded within the contours of law while keeping in mind the welfare of the company as well.

     

    If you could re-live your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    I have done it all and had good fun and no regrets.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    There isn’t a sure shot way to success in the legal profession. Everyone has his/her own unique story of success. Believe in yourself – something will surely come to you. No point in comparison and ultimately losing your heart. All you need is patience and hard work.

     

  • Neeraj Arora, Expert Investigator, Cyber Crimes, Delhi Police on building a career in Cyber Law

    Neeraj Arora, Expert Investigator, Cyber Crimes, Delhi Police on building a career in Cyber Law

    Neeraj Arora started working in the Delhi police as a sub-inspector in order to support his family, while studying B.Com. Thereafter he did his LL.B from Delhi University.

    After graduating and continuing work in the police force, he developed an interest in cyber crimes and law and took up a variety of certificate courses and diplomas in India and abroad to further his knowledge in the area. Eventually, he started up his own law firm, Hazen Legal Associates which specialises mainly in cyber law and offences.

    Presently, he is a designated Expert Investigator and he has investigated a large number of cases relating to E-mail related crimes, Web-Server/System/Wireless Network Hacking, BPO Data theft, Online Auctions Website Frauds, Obscenity, E-mails/SMS Spoofing, Phishing Frauds etc. for the Delhi Police. He serves as a guest faculty member and a guest lecturer of ISACA, NICFS, Indian Law Institute, Directorate of Enforcement, Indian Institute of Corporate Affairs and many other prominent institutions. He is also an Arbitrator for NSE, ICADR and MCX in online trading matters.

    In this interview we asked Neeraj to share:

    • His initial decisive moments during graduation
    • Being a part of the Delhi police and his work in the Cyber Crimes Cell
    • Doing a number of extra diplomas and certificate courses in Cyber Law and Digital Forensics
    • Being a Consultant for the World Bank
    • Being appointed as an Arbitrator of the National Stock Exchange
    • His experience of starting up his own law firm, Hazen Legal Associates

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers and tell us a bit about your college life days. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    After doing my 12th, I started working and took my first job as an Accounts Assistant because my family circumstances required me to earn for my family. I joined B.Com (H) at the School of Correspondence Studies, Delhi University, while continuing my job. I also took up part-time writing work, filing of Income Tax/Sales Tax returns and tuitions to support my family. I am a first generation lawyer in my family.

     

    You are a Commerce (B.Com) Graduate and a Cost Accountant by qualification. What prompted you to make the transition to law?

    After completing B.Com, I joined ICWA as I intended to join the accountancy profession. Meanwhile, due to my financial troubles, [sociallocker]I joined the Delhi police as a Sub-Inspector. I also continued with ICWA and completed my final in 1996.

     

    You have pursued PG Diplomas in Arbitration and Drafting long after graduating in LL.B. What prompted you to take up these diplomas?

    I did my LL.B. from Delhi University in 2001 and pursued a PG Diploma in Arbitration & PG Diploma Drafting of Legislation, Treaties, International Agreement & Contracts from 2008 to 2010. I pursued the extra diplomas because the topic fascinated me as it upgrades existing skills and enables one to reach new heights in life as well as the legal profession. After resigning from the Delhi police in 2008, I decided to explore my career in Arbitration which is an upcoming and rewarding career. In 2008, I was appointed as an Arbitrator with the MCX Exchange and to augment my skill in the field of International Arbitration, I joined and completed these two part-time courses, PG Diploma in Arbitration, Drafting of Legislation, Treaties, International Agreement & Contracts.

     

    You have been practicing cyber law for almost eight years now. How did you become interested in cyber law?

    In 2005, I was transferred to the Cyber Crime Cell of Economic Offences Wing (EOW) of Delhi police and at the time I didn’t have much knowledge of computers. I treated the posting as a punishment, but took it up as a challenge as I foresaw huge potential in the area. I did a number of trainings on cyber offences from various police academies: CBI, CDTS and also did a Certificate Course in Computer Forensic from IP University, Cyber Crime Investigator Course from Asian School of Cyber Law, PG Diploma in Cyber Law from Indian Law Institute (ILI), Delhi, PG Diploma in Cyber Security from Asian School of Cyber Law and MBA (Information Technology) from Manipal University. Consequently, that is also how I became one of the prominent Investigators of the Cyber Crime Cell of the Delhi police.

     

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    You are associated with Delhi Police as a Cyber Lawyer & an Expert Cyber Crime Investigator. Please share few interesting experiences of your investigation with our readers and tell us more about these issues.

    On being equipped with knowledge on Information Technology, I got opportunities to investigate a large number of cases relating to E-mail related crimes, Web-Server/System/Wireless Network Hacking, BPO Data theft, Online Auctions Website Frauds, Obscenity, E-mails/SMS Spoofing, Phishing Frauds etc.

    In all the cases, I prepared the mirror images on the spot, collected relevant digital evidence, arrested a number of hackers, filed the charge-sheets in the court, etc. The investigation of cyber offences was quite challenging as there were no precedents, standard operating procedure and no one to guide us. I have collected the requisite information from the internet, various books and journals on digital forensics and by 2008, I was awarded the status of an expert cyber crime Investigator.

     

    You are a Certified Forensic Computer Expert and an empanelled member of IACIS for more than two years now. What is your job as an expert at IACIS? What kind of issues do you deal with?

    The IACIS (International Association of Computer Investigative Specialists) is the top most organization in the world which specializes in the field of computer forensics. The Certification, “Certified Forensic Computer Examiner” (CFCE) is one of the top most certification which is also recognized by the Forensic Specialities Board of U.S.

    In order to augment my skill and also to gain an in-depth knowledge, I joined the Certification and attended two weeks Hands on Training in Orlando, U.S. and after that I worked hard for another year and passed the six exams which involves analysis of mirror images to find out the Window, Internet and other Artifacts of the Crime.

    The Course was a big challenge as this is the only Certification which requires extracting the evidence without using Forensic Software. The only Software which can be used is Hex Editor and for doing one need to have good knowledge of FAT File System, NTFS etc. as the Data/Artifacts has to be extracted manually by finding the location of data from FAT/MFT Table.

     

    You have vast experience as an Investigating Officer of CBI, Cyber Crime cell and Economic Offences Wing of Delhi Police and you are also associated with Justice K. Venkataswami Commissioner of Enquiry (Tehelka) for more than a decade. Please share your experience.

    I joined the CBI as Inspector on Deputation and got the opportunity to investigate the huge and technically complex cases of Economic Offences going into hundreds of crores of rupees. My skill and knowledge in the field of Finance, being a Cost Accountant, enable me to investigate these cases and to book the fraudsters. As an Investigating Officer with Justice K. Venkataswami Commissioner of Enquiry (Tehelka), I got the opportunity to investigate the huge scam and I received an award for outstanding investigation in the said assignment.

     

    You have trained many professionals at Police Organisations, Indian Law Institute, CBI and also at IACIS. Please tell us about your training programme.

    The arena of cyber forensics comprises of three domains namely Computer Forensic, Network Forensic & Mobile Forensic. These domains are inter-connected and integrated in such a manner that the knowledge of three domains is required to handle the Digital Evidence. I have been continuously sharing my knowledge of these domains by way of training. The training I provide is an integration of Bit & Byte, Debit & Credit with investigation and procedural and substantive laws.

     

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    You have also delivered a couple of lectures on cyber law. How do you prepare yourself before any presentation or delivering any lecture? Please give some tips to our readers.

    My competence in integrating computer forensics with digital evidence, e-commerce, procedural/substantive laws gives me a unique edge in delivering training in the field of Cyber Crime/Cyber Law/Computer Forensic/Financial Forensic when it is connected to the ground realities of investigation, analysis and presentation in a court of law. I am able to provide a solution to the various gaps in the investigation, collection, analysis, presentation & cross-examination on the digital evidence and integrate it with the applicable principles of digital investigation, digital evidence, cyber laws and other procedural/substantive law.

     

    From your profile it can be seen that you have strong exposure, knowledge and specialization in Arbitration law. How did you gravitate towards this discipline?

    Arbitration is one of the upcoming fields which require skills of legal procedure, proceedings, appreciation of evidence and discovery. The academic domain, knowledge and experience plays a major role in acquiring these skills and since the entire world is moving to ADR for dispute resolution, this is the most growing field with opportunities increasing exponentially.

     

    As an Arbitrator and Mediator for NSE, ICADR and MCX what kind of disputes do you deal with? What is the normal time period of disposal of an arbitral proceeding?

    As an Arbitrator on various exchanges, I am adjudicating the disputes relating to the Online Share/Commodity Transactions between the Members of Exchanges (Brokers) and their clients.

    As a member of IGRC on various exchanges, I conduct conciliatory proceedings to resolve disputes relating to the online share/commodity transactions between the Members of Exchanges (Brokers) and their clients. This mechanism provides an opportunity to the litigant to resolve their dispute with the help of Conciliator/Mediator.

    The normal time period of disposal of such dispute is 3-6 months. The disputes are resolved by conducting the proceedings as per the bye-laws and exchanges and the procedure prescribed in Arbitration & Conciliation Act, 1996.

     

    You were also appointed as a Consultant of World Bank for four years. How did you get associated with the World Bank?

    I was appointed as a Consultant to the World Bank for analysing the contractual issues relating to the projects of World Bank.

     

    You have started your own firm – Hazen Legal Associates. What were the primary challenges you faced?

    I have started my own firm as the various skills in the field of law, finance & cyber offences gave me an edge. I got a lot of work in the field of criminal laws, cyber offences and consultancy relating to cyber offences. The only challenge was to bring together so many technical and legal aspects, which I did with the help of my colleagues and associates.

     

    What are the practice areas at Hazen Legal Associates? Do your firm emphasize more on cyber law than other areas of law?

    The main practice area is confined to criminal trials in the field of economic, cyber & anti-corruption cases. Due to heavy demand in the field of cyber law, we are now specializing in consultancy and compliance with cyber law as required by ISO 27001, storage/maintenance of digital evidence, handling cases relating to cyber crimes, cross- examination on digital evidence, handling of cyber security, etc.

     

    What is the application procedure for interns at HLA? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    We keep 3-4 interns at all times. The application procedure requires the applicant to send the detailed profile at on cyber.nk@gmail.com, we shall then follow it up by an interview. The skills required are knowledge of computer and research in the legal field. The networking and programming knowledge adds to the priority for the applicant.

     

    In spite of having so many involvements in various organizations apart from managing your own law firm, is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    It’s always a challenge but with the support of good colleagues and associates, one can maintain a work life balance.

     

    How should one go about starting his/her own cyber law practice in India? Please name a few institutes to study cyber law in India. How important are procedural laws in this discipline?

    A good knowledge of computers is a must. A Diploma in Computer Networking is required to understand the Cyber Offences and any further qualification in the field of Computer, Network or Mobile would add to the success of individual in this arena. There are various Institutes which provide courses like Indian Law Institute, NALSAR, IGNOU etc.

    Procedural laws have a very important aspect in Cyber Law, one should have knowledge of Criminal Procedure Code/Civil Procedure Code/Evidence Act. Without a good knowledge of these procedural laws, success in the field of cyber law cannot be achieved because the implementation would be only through these procedural laws.

    The other important aspect is that the Cyber Law caters to only 20% of the Cyber crimes whereas 80% of all Cyber crimes get covered under the IPC and other Laws.

     

    What would be your advice for aspiring cyber lawyers?

    The aspiring cyber lawyer should develop their skill in the field of procedural laws and Internet Technology at the same time. Later, these practitioners may not get the time/opportunity to develop skills and therefore, I recommend that aspiring legal practitioners should acquire maximum technical skills parallel with their L.L.B which would give them an edge later on.

    In the Europe, U.S., etc. most of the cyber lawyers have a background in technology like B.Tech etc. Now, integrated Course of B.Tech + L.L.B. (5 Years) have been introduced in various Universities/Colleges and pursing these courses would ensure the success in the field of cyber law. It can be said that candidates with such qualifications will dominate the cyber world in the near future.[/sociallocker]

  • Tulika Chakraborty, Associate at Kochhar & Co. on Corporate Law and Law Firms

    Tulika Chakraborty, Associate at Kochhar & Co. on Corporate Law and Law Firms

    Tulika Chakraborty graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. She has an enviable academic record and an excellent series of internships at top law firms. During law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities including moot court competitions, debates, and conferences. She also has a couple of publications to her name. Currently, she works as an Associate at Kochhar & Co.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Importance of co-curricular activities like mooting, etc.
    • Appointment and work experience at Kochhar & Co.

     

    How will you introduce yourself to our readers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Hi, I am Tulika Chakraborty, a corporate lawyer associated with Kochhar & Co. and an alumnus of Symbiosis Law College.

    Well, I was always charmed by the mad pace, responsibility and the glamour that comes with the legal profession. Further, with the Indian economy opening still on the upside and huge potential for growth due to liberalisation and globalisation, there seemed to be a lot of scope in the field of transactions and hence the need for corporate lawyers in the foreseeable future. To add to that, my father’s dream and motivation boosted the zeal to reach this point of success in life.

     

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    Tell us about your college life? What all activities did you participate in?

    I have always been a consistent student in college, trying to balance my course and extra curriculars. I have pursued two diploma courses from Symbiosis Law School, in addition to my regular law degree. I have been a part of certain committees and participated in programs organised by my college from time to time. College life at Symbiosis was fulfilling and has tremendously helped me grow into a comprehensive adult. I guess a good college life includes academics and life experiences.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing your skills and knowledge in these areas?

    I was always interested in foreign exchange laws. However, we did not have that as a subject back in college. It were my stints as an intern with various law firms that gave me my first true exposure to the practical side of law and it was during that time that I became sure of the area of my interest in foreign exchange laws and corporate laws. Reading articles on foreign exchange laws issued by various law firms and magazines like yours have also guided me all through the way.

     

    How was your experience serving various student committees at SLS?

    So I was a part of this committee engaged in the upliftment of rural children by way of spreading awareness regarding the necessity of primary education for children. As a part of the committee, we would visit villages etc., gather information regarding the literacy rate amongst the children, income level of a family, child labour etc. We would thereafter educate them on the necessity of having their children educated and refrain from making children work. We would also get in touch with various NGOs, obtain necessary financial assistance and provide help to the children by way of purchasing books, stationeries etc. Being a part of committees helps one to understand and deal with people having different mind sets and perceptions. This in turn helps one to become a team player, which is a crucial requirement of any profession.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting and publications? Do they have any ‘bonus’ value when seeking jobs?

    Mooting and writing journals at law school is always good since it helps one improve upon his/her research, drafting and debating abilities. These are very important skills that a lawyer is expected to possess. In my view, such co-curricular activities do have a bonus value when graduates seek jobs since it reflects a person’s passion and zeal for the legal profession.

     

    After graduation you joined Kochhar & Co. It’s been three and half years of your work experience in corporate law. What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of the top law firms?

    I was interning with Kochhar & Co. in my last year of college and bagged a pre-placement offer there. I have got a brilliant exposure here. I believe the work environment can be difficult as times and the inabilities to handle the work pressure contribute to the high attrition rate amongst the top law firms.

     

    Many lawyers say that years of practice can make a person adept at any discipline of law. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    I don’t believe that is true at all. It all depends upon the exposure a person gets and his/her willingness to learn. This can happen within a couple of years of being in the industry and might not happen after years of experience as well.

    At Kochhar, I primarily handle transactions and general corporate commercial matters. In addition to this, I have got opportunities to handle real estate, insurance, employment and labour matters etc. I have got a brilliant exposure in all non-litigation matters which has helped me build my understanding of the field I seek enjoyment while working and gather a basic understanding of all practice areas at the same time.

     

    What all does your profile at Kochhar & Co. encompass?

    As I mentioned earlier, I am primarily a part of the transactions and general corporate and commercial team. When there are transactions being handled by my company, my job is to focus on those. However, I otherwise deal in commercial documentation, corporate secretarial matters, labour and employment etc.

     

    How is real legal work different from those portrayed in popular soap operas? Are there any misconceptions which law students hold?

    It is different experience to work as an intern and as a lawyer. As an intern, one is mainly entrusted with research work and one doesn’t have any responsibility towards clients etc. Once one starts working, one becomes answerable for everything one says or writes. One begins handling clients and it gives a different level of satisfaction and happiness.

    On the misconception front, I don’t think I had any major/crippling misconception but with time I have come across people who during their college tenure believe that legal profession is similar to what is shown in Boston Legal and Suits (the famous soap operas). Sooner they get ready for the grind the better.

     

    What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest

    I believe sincerity is a very important quality which one must possess. Interns, who ask for work, research well and come back with accurate answers based on appropriate legal provisions and judicial precedents make a difference and improve his or her chances of absorption as a lawyer.

     

    Life for law-firms can be very hectic at times. How do you unwind?

    Well honestly, at Kochhar, we have sufficient work life balance. I believe in fitness and working out. I love to cook as well. All these activities act as a stress buster for me.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    I see myself as a General Counsel of an MNC.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Jeremy Bentham had once said – “Lawyers are the only persons in whom ignorance of the law is not punished.” I believe as lawyers, it is important for us to keep abreast of the latest legal developments. One should strive to keep themselves regularly updated with the latest legal developments happening in our respective fields.

     

  • Leoni Mahanta, Trademark Attorney, AMSS on work experience and LL.M from NUS in IPR

    Leoni Mahanta, Trademark Attorney, AMSS on work experience and LL.M from NUS in IPR

    Leoni Mahanta is currently working as a Trademarks Attorney with Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. (AMSS), Gurgaon. She graduated with a B.A.LL.B. (Hons) degree from National Law Institute University, Bhopal in 2009. She then went on to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property Rights and Technology law from National University of Singapore and has thereafter worked with two boutique IP law firms, initially at ZeusIP and then at Lall, Lahiri & Salhotra.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLIU and NUS
    • Work experience at ZeusIP and Lall, Lahiri & Salhotra
    • Work as Trademark Attorney with AMSS

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Please tell us a bit about how you gravitated towards law.

    Hi, I am Leoni Mahanta and I am currently working as a Trade Marks Attorney with Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A.Shroff & Co. (AMSS), Gurgaon.

    My maternal grandfather was a very big name in the legal fraternity of Assam. As a child, I would hear his great courtroom stories, the stature he enjoyed in the society, and that inspired me to become a lawyer so that I could carry forward his legacy.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at NLIU? How were you at academics?

    The 5 years I have spent in National Law Institute University (NLIU), Bhopal, are indeed very close to my heart and the whole experience has a major impact on who I am today. Studying at a National Law School gave me the opportunity to interact with the cream crowd of the country. Being a part of the competitive environment at NLIU, I became a goal oriented person at a young age. I was an above average student with a decent CGPA and I actively took part in extra-curricular activities as a core member of Gender Justice Cell and Access to Justice Cell and was involved in UNDP funded projects. My reading was not limited to class-room notes and course materials, and I would read from books which helped me to understand the basics. The purpose was not to cram up the course material to score high grades but to understand and enjoy what I was studying.

    Most importantly, one of the key highlights of my law-school years was travelling all over Madhya Pradesh and beyond, getting to know the culture and enjoying the hostel life with my friends. There was always so much to do – exams, projects, presentations, extra-curricular activities – and coping up with the trimester system taught me mechanisms to multi-task, all of which are now helping me being an associate at AMSS and still maintaining work life balance.

     

    How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious career in law?

    Good CGPA is definitely very important to be noticed by a potential employer and in securing admission for higher studies at top law or business schools. However, for an illustrious legal career, the marks you have scored in law school exams have no role to play. I believe we should choose to work in the field which interests us, be sincere and honest in our attitude towards all the assignments we are involved in, be it big or small. In short, if we love our work we will naturally put all our efforts and would want to be updated with latest legal developments which in turn will reflect in the quality of our work.

     

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    How do you think internships are beneficial to law students?

    Internships give students the opportunity to experience the practical aspects of law and provide exposure to a professional environment that a law school may not otherwise be able to provide. I would advise law students to intern with Non-Governmental Organizations, National Commissions, Litigators, Corporate Law Firms and as Judicial Clerks so that they can have a fair idea of different practice areas and can gain clarity of what they would want to pursue as a career. Internships also provide great platform to refine legal skills, learn your strengths and weaknesses and to network with legal professionals who may prove to be mentors in finding jobs in the future.

     

    After your graduation, you went to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property Rights and Technology law from National University of Singapore. How would you describe your experience as?

    Yes, pursuing higher studies was always the plan! I was not mentally prepared to start working right after law school. I felt it was too soon. I wanted to go out in the world, experience different cultures, meet new people and become more independent. Though I was offered Scholarship by Kings College London, I chose National University of Singapore (NUS)because of its global approach to education and research, with a focus on Asian perspectives and expertise. Also, the University is considered to be one of the best in Asia offering diverse course modules which are taught by the professors from the top most universities of the world.

    Studying in Singapore was a life changing experience. Living in a different culture, interacting with people from all over the world helped me discover myself, break down my stereotypes about many things and see the world in new ways. The LL.M. gave me the opportunity to make great friend, meet new professionals and build invaluable relationships with peers from around the world. Also, NUS organises regular professional networking gatherings which helped me to develop networking skills. I also had the opportunity to intern at Drew & Napier LLC which is one of Singapore’s leading and largest law firms.  This experience taught mecross cultural skills and provided an international professional exposure.

    Pursuing an LL.M. abroad may not be a good idea if you are expecting it to be a means to getting a job abroad or top law firm in India. But personally, I believe that studying and living abroad contributes to overall development of one’s personality, preparing to adapt to unfamiliar environments and improve interpersonal skills as a result of interacting with people from diverse backgrounds and cultures.

     

    After completing your LL.M, you came back to India and started your career at a boutique Intellectual Property Firm. How would you describe your experience working at boutique firms?

    I worked in two boutique IP law firms, initially at ZeusIP and then at Lall, Lahiri&Salhotra.Working at these firms proved to be beneficial as from the very start of my career I got the opportunity to work directly under the supervision of the Partners, work on wide variety of matters due to less compartmentalisation of work, take more responsibilities and directly communicate with clients. Working in boutique set-ups helped me to gain more control on the practise, become responsive and develop management skills.

     

    Currently, you work as an Associate at AMSS. What prompted you to make this choice and how is your experience so far?

    Working at AMSS was a natural choice as I was looking for varied and challenging work and it is the best platform to experience the cream legal work in the country since it has diverse range of clients comprising world’s top business houses.

    Working at AMSS is a very fulfilling experience. The people that I work with are some of the brightest and most insightful people that I have ever met. AMSS has a very women friendly environment and the firm takes various initiatives for the well-being of the employees.

     

    What kind of work and responsibilities does an associate at AMSS deals with? What should a student do so that he gets placed in a prestigious firm like AMSS?

    Work and responsibilities of Associates at AMSS differ from team to team. Personally speaking, I believe that if one is sincere, good at work and takes initiatives then opportunities aregiven to work in wide range of matters and take more responsibilities.

    The general notion is that one should be amongst the top 10% of the class for campus recruitment in AMSS. I joined AMSS as a lateral joinee and can only comment on the basis of my personal experience. I believe that a good CGPA is important but AMSS also considers if the candidate has a good grip of the work he / she is doing and the general attitude towards work. AMSS appreciates candidates with well rounded personality and good inter-personal skills. My advice to the prospective job seekers is to develop strong base in their practice area, be honest with the interviewer and develop the spirit to be nothing lesser than the best. Recruiters can read your mind 🙂

     

    Last but not least, what’s next for you?

    Every day I go to office as if it’s my first day at work with the determination to prove myself and be better than yesterday. I believe the doors of great opportunities will open up if I continue to be true to myself and my work.

  • Jagruti Dekavadiya, Managing Partner at Arun Oza & Associates on specialisation in Commercial Law from UCL

    Jagruti Dekavadiya, Managing Partner at Arun Oza & Associates on specialisation in Commercial Law from UCL

    Jagruti Dekavadiya is a graduate of the 2012 batch of Institute of Law, Nirma University B.A. LL.B. (Business Laws – Hons.). A lawyer with the qualification of LL.M. (International Commercial Laws) from University College London, (U.K.) and a Registered Trademark Attorney, Govt. of India, she is now the Managing Partner of Arun Oza & Associates.

    In this interview you will get to read what she has to say about:

    • Choosing law as a career option
    • Specialization in Commercial Law
    • Importance of Research and publications and other co curricular activities
    • Working as a Managing Partner at Arun Oza & Associates

     

    Please tell us what defines you.

    I am a very passionate human being. Routine bores me so to keep going, I need challenges. I graft wonders under pressure. I love challenges and it becomes an obsession to win, be it a boardroom game or on a playground. I believe in maximum output with limited time. Moreover, I like being at peace followed by hard work and complete fairness. I don’t like it I get favoured in anyway. I like to earn it myself than to get it inherited.

     

    What is it that motivated you to take study law?

    It is actually a very funny story. Till I completed my 12th (Science Stream – Biology Group), I always wondered as to why one chooses being a lawyer. Why would one fight cases and take mental stress dealing with others every day? But during that period, I came in contact with my mentor, guide and philosopher, Shree Arun D. Oza (Former Government Pleader and Public Prosecutor for High Court of Gujarat), who changed my perception about lawyers forever. He is the type of lawyer who fights for justice, always fighting for the cause of justice against oppression and victimisation.

    He is the only lawyer I have seen so far who will ask his filthy rich prospective client bluntly, “Did you do this?” and if the client says “Yes”, he is at fault. Mr. Oza won’t proceed further and will show him the real picture. So his honesty, integrity and power of truth inspired me to become a lawyer and then in the meanwhile, Nirma University launched their Institute of Law and Shree Oza filled out my form and told me on the day of the exam an hour before that you have to go and appear for entrance and so I did.

    My Rank was 81 (Only top 80 were to be selected.) and I got an interview call followed by an admission, and now, I hold the qualification of a B.A. LL.B. (Hons- Business Laws) with University Second Rank (with minor difference of 0.01 points) and I was also among the toppers in the Business Law Honours Subjects. I also hold an LL.M (International Commercial Laws) from University College London (UCL), UK and Registered Trademark Attorney, Govt. of India.

     

    You have specialized in Commercial law. What made you interested in the same?

    I am a Gujarati, therefore business oriented by birth! The intricacies of business, investment and calculation come natural to me. I always see the pros and cons of everything may it be on professional or personal front. Plus everything has a reason in whatever I do. So, the calculative nature and my interest in learning more about commercial law directed me to specialize in commercial law.

     

    jagruti-dekavadiya

    Do you say there is room for specialisation and research in Commercial Laws?

    Indeed, there is. Commercial Law is rather a discipline in itself. Very vast and diversified. It has an incredible scope from the academic and research point of view. The study of commerce and market, foreseeing the economic growth, and identifying the best practice to adapt or policy to formulate is the ongoing dynamic and intense area for academicians and researchers and the same is also related to the professionals up to a certain extent. I feel students who want to specialise in this, should think what they want to be – A professional or an academician and then should adapt themselves accordingly, as it’s interdependent and does not have straight jacket formula to follow.

     

    Most of your internships have been litigation internships. How helpful were they in increasing your skills and competence as a professional in the field of commercial law?

    My internships into litigation were not isolated from the commercial laws. During those internships, I have learnt the intense interdependent aspects of legislations like Income Tax, Carriage of Goods Act, Trade policies etc along with the Constitution of India. At various judicial forums, these internships have helped me learn the basics which every lawyer should know, along with the aspects of interpretations as far as commercial laws are concerned. Moreover, I believe any skill gained is always an advantage. So for me, it was like know the problems with poor contract drafting or policies resulting into litigation, so that I can be prepared to curb them before inception. Knowing what could be the prospective problem, equips you with solutions resulting into excellence and success.

     

    What do you think about students pursuing CS?

    I believe in adding brownie points to your CV but for the students who already want to specialise in Commercial Law, why do CS? It has more or less the same subjects and same contents. So, I would invest my time in attending workshop on corporate finance or investment or any related area.

     

    You did your masters from UCL, one of the most prestigious universities of the world in international commercial law. What do you think is the scope in this area?

    UCL is indeed the one of the most prestigious universities in the world and known for its course on International Commercial Law. It was indeed prestigious and an amazing experience to do my LL.M. in International Commercial Laws from there. There is a tremendous scope in this area. It widens your theoretical understanding along with the technical ‘know how’. Proficiency in International Commercial Law has the power to empower one to become a global citizen or a professional in its true sense.

     

    How do you assess your LL.M program? Was it an intensive academic and research oriented exercise or did it also help from a professional point of view?

    UCL has a very intense and comprehensive program for its LL.M. It is extremely well structured. It comprises of the academic and research aspects on the various topics and also has tutorials and workshops which empower students to have a complete holistic view than just focusing on academics. So, it was very intense from an academic and research point of view but it also offered various training programs and endowed me on the professional front too.

     

    You have done a lot of publications. How big a role did the same have to play in helping you get admission at Cambridge?

    Having publications on your name and authoring upon the burning topics always adds cherry to the cake. However, I would say that a prestigious University like UCL and Cambridge do note it. As it’s evident in my case, inspite of lacking post study experience, along with A+ Grades, it were my publications which helped me bag admission at Cambridge and UCL too. I believe in collecting options on my plate to choose and pick from later when needed.

     

    Along with having publications, what all activities did you indulge in as a law student, which helped you secure admission at Cambridge? Do research work and writing papers have a role in building you as a professional?

    I have been very active in co-curricular activities and I firmly believe that it surely played a role for me in getting an admission. I have successfully carried out responsibility in my post as the Chief Executive Editor of Nirma University Law Journal. One of the key achievements out of the list was to be selected as the Chief Coordinator to lead a batch for legal awareness camps at various villages, schools and Sabarmati Central Jail for five years. I have also been the founder and active member in the Moot Court Committee, Debate Committee, and Seminar & Publication research cell. You name any committee or any team; I have played an active role in it. I believe these responsibilities makes you a complete professional along with your academics and it surely distinguishes your profile and leads you on the top of everything. As it did to me, apart from getting admission it also helped me grab the PPO from a London based International Law Firm. (which I rejected, as I was clear of doing an LL.M. and then subsequently having my own law firm which I am doing successfully now.)

    I have presented more than fifteen papers and chaired sessions at various National and International Conferences at leading Universities in India including Bombay, Calcutta, Chandigarh, Indian Business Academy Bangalore, and Indian Society of International Law (ISIL) and as well as some outstanding seminars abroad including Los Angeles in 8th International Conference on New Dimensions of Humanities organized by University of California Los Angeles, USA in February 2010, Mauritius in ICER-2010 by University of Mauritius in September 2010, London in BSA Sociological Association Annual Conference at London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) in April 2011.

    I have also taken active part in one National and two International Moots – Participated as a Researcher in Surana & Surana National Corporate Law Moot Court Competition 2008 and as a Speaker in 9thPhilip. C. Jessup International Moot Court Competition 2009 and a coach and chief researcher in International Maritime Law Arbitration Moot 2011, organized by Murdoch University, Australia in collaboration with National University of Singapore, National University of Singapore July 2011.

    I firmly believe being professional is not only about skill or knowledge. A professional needs to be equipped with the knowledge and also with a technical ‘know-how’ to face any situation ahead. Hence, I also had equal focus on my academics too. I have scored the highest in the University in Business Laws Honors subjects. I have also scored University Second position with the minor difference of 0.01 points. So, I believe in achieving excellence at every possible thing related to your area and it will be followed by the success never achieved by anyone before, may it be getting admission or a PPO for that matter.

     

    Along with Commercial law, your profile also shows that you have interest in Trademark and IPR? How closely are the two branches of law related?

    Commercial law is very vast and mammoth. Of course, it has interrelation with IP related issues too. In fact, while I was advising one of my corporate clients, he had issues with breaching contract of confidentiality resulting into the leakage of the trade secret. So, I had to take IP protections for this client. That’s how I actually ended up being qualified as Registered Trademark attorney.

     

    What are the other areas of study which you think that a law student wanting to excel as a professional in the field of commercial law should be proficient in?

    As I suggested earlier, based on the individual limb of commercial law, whatever area which interests the most to the student, he/she has to be equipped with the skills and knowledge needed. However, if you ask me to pin point them: Maritime Law, International Trade Law, Insurance, Merger & Acquisition and Corporate Finance are the essential areas of study, though each of them have an entire discipline in it.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? Do law schools in India prepare their students for their professional life?

    My first year was very exciting indeed. There were a lot of challenges to meet with. I doubt that law schools in India are completely adequate enough to prepare the students for their professional life since the curriculum in Indian Law schools is academic centered rather than practice oriented. A law student must enhance his CV with Publications, Paper presentations, Research and Moot Court presentations to compete with other candidates. I believe only academics or only extracurricular will not help. Make your CV that impressive that no one can ignore it.

     

    How did you get to work at Arun Oza & Associates? Please share with us your journey from your induction into the firm till date?

    Shree Arun Oza is a senior lawyer at the High Court of Gujarat and he served as an inspiration for me to shift to law from my Science background. I have been attending his office since 2007 from my first year of law and now, it’s my firm. I am managing it. My journey was quite tough and taunting as from day one it felt like I was talking responsibility. It was the real experience of being responsible for your act rather than a feeling of being an associate where you know there is always a senior to check. However, the journey was very interesting and to this day it continues to be. I have new challenges and new aspects to explore.

     

    What is a normal workday like at Arun Oza & Associates? Being the Managing Partner at AOA, what are your responsibilities?

    I head the Corporate and Commercial Department, including Arbitration and Intellectual Property Rights. I also head litigation along with Mr. Oza. My day starts with urgent admissions and other matters on board and ends with meetings and drafting for my commercial clients, especially companies whom I am currently advising on its International affairs too. So, my duties aren’t fixed. It’s kind of like being an entrepreneur and being the head at the same time. I also have to manage associates directly and run for final hearings at Court too. But, it’s very much happening.

     

    Do you take interns at AOA? What do you look for in a typical cover letter and CV? How can interns manage to get positive feedback in the limited time they have?

    Of course, I do take interns at AOA. Matter of fact, I am currently having three interns directly under me. One from JGLS and other two are from NLUs. I am really picky about their cover letter. I believe, because they are applying for experience, I don’t expect their CV to be full of achievements but I read the cover letter carefully. The way they draft cover letter depicts the confidence level and clarity as to why they want to intern under me or AOA. Once, I approve the cover letter, my office writes back for interview either online or offline and then if they are selected, they directly report to me. I provide them feedback on each and everything. The interns under me aren’t pampered. They get the first hand experience of everything I do. It may range from cracking negotiations with corporate clients to appearing at different final hearing stage in Courts. I give them files to read and also give them the responsibility to assist me inside the Court being on the front desk alongside myself.

     

    Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding professionals?

    Strive to learn and stay hungry for knowledge. Take it as a challenge and believe that you can do it. Hard work is important but in this age if you also want to succeed what’s more important, is focused smart work. Know your priorities and act accordingly. No doubt, Law is a lucrative profession but learn to be fair and give back to the society as well.