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  • Adithya Banavar, Senior Associate, McKinsey, NY, on the job of a management consultant

    Adithya Banavar, Senior Associate, McKinsey, NY, on the job of a management consultant

    Adithya Banavar is currently a Senior Associate at McKinsey, New York. He graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2011 and then joined McKinsey’s office in Chennai for two years. He was subsequently transferred to McKinsey’s New York office in 2013 as a Business Analyst. He was promoted to Senior Associate in July, 2014. His achievements during law school include being in the top 16 of the prestigious Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Court Competition, Vienna.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Experiencing law school at NLSIU, Bangalore
    • Mooting and in particular, Willem C. Vis, Vienna
    • Working at McKinsey, New York

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I am currently a Senior Associate at McKinsey in New York. I graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2011 and then joined McKinsey’s office in Chennai for two years. In August 2013, I got transferred to McKinsey’s New York office where I continued as a Business Analyst. In July 2014 I was promoted to Senior Associate.

    Both my parents are lawyers and that was basically where the idea of law school came from. By the time I was done with my 12th, I had decided that I wanted nothing to do with engineering. At that time it seemed like a good idea for me to actually start doing something different, and hence, law.

    I came to know of NLS through my father who used to be a visiting professor there and has had a long standing association with the University. I wrote the entrance exams for NLS, NALSAR and NUJS. I got through NLS with a rank of 48 but as far as NUJS was concerned, my name was at the very bottom of the list!  I chose NLS mostly on account of it being closer to home.

     

    Given that a significant number of our readers are law school students, would you please tell us a little about your law school days at NLSIU, Bangalore?

    My experience at NLS was a little different from the typical NLS experience because I was a localite. I was more of a day scholar and didn’t stay at the hostels often. Accordingly, I had a lot less excitement in my life compared to my batch mates who lived on campus.

    Overall, the real value lies in the ecosystem that NLS creates, apart from the conventional classroom curriculum. It gives you an opportunity to do whatever you want, whether it is a moot or starting up your own eatery like Bhukkad for instance. The peer crowd around you is what makes the experience special. NLS is structured to support this. Classes start at 8:50 am in the morning and end at 1.30pm so the rest of the day is open for you to explore your wide array of interests. It makes a student understand that academics is only a part of a holistic education.

    Personally, I am a huge fan of the trimester system. I think it works really well. You have four subjects so you can clearly focus your attention. There are a few days where things could get a little intense (night before the exams!) but most of the time, you actually have time to yourself. It also gives you a very good balance of subjects. When you are studying Sociology and Economics, you are also studying Legal Methods. You see how the latter plays a role in both Sociology and Economics. Law is not something you can study in a vacuum without a broader social context and I feel the trimester system allows you to get deep into a couple of areas and truly understand the interdependencies.

    NLS also offers numerous avenues to put the law into action. I was part of two of them during my time in law school. The Legal Services Clinic (which I was a joint convenor of) has a dual mission of (i) providing legal aid to those who cannot afford it and (ii) spreading legal awareness and literacy. As a part of LSC, we set up the Bangalore chapter of IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access) – an NGO that looks to help underprivileged students gain admission into law schools through CLAT by providing financial and training assistance; and then looks to support and mentor them through the 5 years of law school.

     

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    Have you ever felt that you have a slight advantage over your peers in other law schools owing to the fact that you are an NLSIU-graduate?

    It really depends on what you want to do in life. If you want to start your own company for example, it will make little to no difference which law school you go to. If you want to go to a top tier law firm, again it doesn’t matter that much because as far as I understand, the top 15 from any of the top National Law Schools find their feet fairly easily. Where the difference starts is in the more off-the-beaten-path career options. The reason this difference has begun is because NLS has a very strong alumni network. Many are into business, some even into modelling! One good example is McKinsey, which has numerous NLS alumni. In terms of campus recruitment, McKinsey used to only go to NLS among the top law schools (not sure if this has changed now).

    However, these are not structural barriers. I feel that if you are enterprising enough it doesn’t matter which law school you are from. For instance, when we were at the Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Court Competition in Vienna, we met Martin Hunter (one of the foremost arbitration authorities in the world). He was hanging around a team of law students from KIIT, Bhubaneswar. We later learned that he comes to India and teaches a course every summer on Arbitration law at KIIT.

     

    How important do you think CGPA is in retrospect?

    I did not have a very high CGPA and hence my answers are potentially biased towards feeling it does not matter. I never really cared about CGPA even during law school and focused my attention on co-curricular activities like mooting. NLS recognizes this and there is a gold medal that is based on performance at moots – Best Student Advocate, which I was awarded.

    I think CGPA makes a difference if one wants to join a law firm. It makes a huge difference if one wants to pursue higher education. Once you move away from law firms and higher education, it makes far less of a difference. For litigation, it does not matter in the least!

    In the long run, I think it is important to separate out learning from having a good CGPA. I feel I learnt a lot more from mooting than I did in the classroom. Having a good grounding in law is immensely valuable in whatever you choose to pursue after law school (even if it is not directly law-related). Unfortunately, the CGPA system is far from perfect and I feel does not truly reflect how well one has understood the subject.

    You have taken part in the prestigious Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot Court Competition, Vienna and also finished in the Top 16. Please tell us about your experience.

    Vis is truly an amazing moot. The city is beautiful and there’s a party almost every other day. If you plan on taking last minute moot work when there, it is likely to be a very bad idea! There is just so much to do and enjoy other than the moot itself. There are almost 300 teams participating and it’s a great opportunity to meet people and know about their views, etc. and understand the law better. It is truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

    In relation to our performance at the moot – after securing any moot, the first thing to do is to hound past teams who have cracked the moot. The challenge we faced was that teams in the years immediately preceding us had not done very well at Vis. With hard work, an “out of the box” approach to mooting and a ton of luck, we reached the Top 16. Once you reach that position, the other 15 teams are more or less close to your own team in terms of competition. In the round of 16, we lost to a team from the College of Law, England and Wales. The head of Arbitration for Allen & Overy, Europe was their coach!

    You are currently working as a Senior Associate at McKinsey & Company in New York. How is it different from working in India?

    Although not very different in terms of work, it is quite different from a cultural perspective. Here, in the United States, the industries are well established and there is a much more defined role for consultants. In India, it is still a lot more personal and exploratory in terms of the way you work with your clients. Of course, that is a broad generalization and there are many exceptions.

     

    What is an average day as a Senior Associate at McKinsey & Company like for you? We would love to hear about your work profile. Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with.

    As an Analyst and a Senior Associate, you are a member of a larger team. We are given a very challenging problem from the client, which could range from ‘where should we focus for the next five years’ to ‘How do we reduce our procurement cost by 20 percent?’ Whatever the problem is, we break it up into distinct pieces and allot each of these pieces to a member of the team. Teams are small – with 2-4 people looking into at the problem on a full time basis and 2-3 more senior consultants who spread their time across multiple projects. Each person in the team owns a significant part of the answer. As a senior associate, you take a much more holistic view and are responsible for understanding how your part of the problem links with the overall problem and the broader context of the company. As an analyst, you focus on the part of the problem that you have been given. As you get more senior, the mindset changes from ‘This is what I have been allotted and I shall go solve it’ to ‘what is really going to make a significant and lasting difference to the client.’

     

    How can one working at a law firm at present get into McKinsey?

    During my time in India, I did not see many laterals hired from undergraduate programs. I suppose this is because the Analyst programme is a two year commitment after which you are generally expected to go to business school and come back as an Associate. Most analysts spend two years at McKinsey and then go to an NGO or go into investing before going to Business School. Some come back to McKinsey as Associates. There are also people who come back to the law with a more holistic business experience.

     

    Will an MBA post a five year integrated B.A/B.B.A, LL.B. course be a better combination for a job like this at McKinsey (Management consultant)?

    Yes, definitely. Business and law are two sides of the same coin. It is quite useful for one to understand the nuances of the law to make sound business decisions. Beyond that, the way you approach problems in business is exactly the same way you approach problems in litigation. Instead of searching for case law, you’re looking for facts and analyses to support your answer to the problem that the client has posed to you. In the legal context, you are getting the facts of the case, the evidence and putting them all together to support your arguments, so it is very similar in that sense (just a different context). An MBA therefore fits perfectly with a law degree and an excellent entry point into business (including consulting).

     

    Do you plan on doing an MBA sometime?

    I am quite not sure at this point of time. I intend to continue at McKinsey for the near future (I got promoted to associate without an MBA). Frankly, I haven’t decided anything as of now, but I should come to a decision by mid-year.

     

    Do you know about the management consulting industry in India? Would you like to come back and operate from here?

    Yes, I have a fair idea since I worked in India as a management consultant for 2 years. It is definitely an option and not a bad one. It’s really a question of opportunities in the areas you’d want to be in. What excites me the most is doing strategy work for TMT (Telecom, Media & High Tech) companies. From a longer term perspective (5-10 years), I think India will be one of the best markets to be in.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    For people in their second or third year, my message to them would be to make the most of law school. Enjoy the social life along with the extracurricular and co-curricular activities. Do not get too stressed or worried about any one thing (especially CGPA!). For the ones who are about to graduate, I don’t have much to say except that they ought to do what they want, not what everyone else in their batch is doing. Their job should excite them to go to work in the morning. If not, they should already better start planning their exit (even if they have not yet started!). It’s not that every day of the year will be filled with excitement, but in balance, your irritation and frustration should not outweigh your excitement.

  • Kritika Kapoor, Assistant Manager – Legal, Reliance Broadcast Network, on work profile and experience

    Kritika Kapoor, Assistant Manager – Legal, Reliance Broadcast Network, on work profile and experience

    Kritika Kapoor is a graduate from Pravin Gandhi College of Law. She has interned with Advocate Rajesh Bijlani and SPN Law Associates under the mentorship of Advocate Satish Nagvenkar. After graduation, she started working at B4U Television Network. Meanwhile, she also pursued a Masters in Intellectual Property Rights from Mumbai University. She is currently an Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network Limited.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Life at Pravin Gandhi College of Law
    • Working at B4U Television Network
    • Being Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network Limited

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are primarily budding lawyers? Did you belong to a family of lawyers?

    Hello Readers!  I come from a family with a strong science background. My father is an engineer, my sister is a dentist and my mother is a homemaker who has a degree in home science. I too, was keen on entering the medical profession and hence took up science in junior college.  It was during my junior college days that I was drawn to the legal profession whilst working on a personal property dispute. I believed pursuing law would be a challenging and intellectually rewarding career option and would complement my personality and skill sets.

     

    Tell us about your five year journey through law school. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a professional.

    The faculty at Pravin Gandhi College of Law encouraged both academics and extra-curricular activities and the college was always buzzing with action and excitement. I participated in various activities like moots, debates, crime scene investigation competitions, essay writing competitions, etc., and the experience indeed helped me refine my research, analytic and reasoning skills.

    Signing up for various courses relating to consumer protection, property transactions, professional legal communication, etc. helped me add on to my knowledge base. I did a 4-month course on intellectual property from NMIMS which really helped me get an in-depth understanding of IP laws.

    Students should be encouraged and provided a platform to take up research papers and dissertations.

    As President of the college’s Sports Committee, I represented PGCL in various tournaments organised by law schools across India. I won individual titles in Table Tennis & Carrom and team trophies in throwball in various sports tournaments such as: ‘Yuvardha’ organised by National Law University, Jodhpur; ‘Symbhav’ organised by Symbiosis Law School, Pune; and ‘Spiritus’ organised by NLSIU, Bangalore.

    I was in-charge of managing 50+ members contingent on these trips and that truly honed my leadership, time-management, and interpersonal skills. Sports helped me imbibe essential qualities such as sportsmanship, teamwork, respect, integrity, dedication and crisis management. Above all, sports taught me how to be perseverant during times of failure and to remain humble in success. I learnt that you may not always win, but you must play the game with all your heart.

     

    Did you take up any internships or work during your college days?

    Throughout law school I kept myself busy with one thing or the other. I had 5 years of education ahead of me but still wanted to be occupied and financially independent.  In my first year, I took up a job at Intelenet and was working as a Sales & Service Manager for an inbound call process for Barclays Bank, UK, servicing bank accounts and up-selling banking products.

    My first legal internship was with a practicing criminal lawyer, Advocate Rajesh Bijlani. I assisted in research and drafting on contentious cases relating to murder, rape, etc. Thereafter, I worked with SPN Law Associates, under the mentorship of Advocate Satish Nagvenkar who has a strong practice in property law. It was during my stint at SPN that I acquired a good grip on drafting and pleading. A few months before my final semester exams I got placed at B4U Television Network and started working there.

     

    How did you secure your appointment at B4U? What did your work comprise of?  How would you describe your experience working there?

    Like all other enthusiastic final year students, I enrolled for the college placement program and simultaneously started hunting for opportunities myself.  I was contacted for an opening at B4U, which is one of the world’s leading Bollywood television networks, by a consultant who found my resume on an online job portal. I had to undergo two rounds of interviews, first with the Legal Head, Natasha D’Souza and the second was with the Chief Financial Officer, Sandeep Gupta. In the first round I had to answer a few pertinent questions related to property laws, drafting and copyright in order to verify the veracity of my resume and was then asked to draft a reply to one Public Notice. In the second round I was asked a few more questions to identify my individuality and to see if I was fitting to the company and team.

    Working at B4U, I was exposed to the niche practice of media laws. My work primarily involved drafting specialised agreements related to film acquisition & distribution, hiring of transponders, channel distribution, hiring talent, corresponding with government authorities and administrative bodies like MIB, TRAI, FDA, DAVP, IPRS and ensuring regulatory compliance. During my stint at B4U, I undertook extensive research on TRAI Regulations, content laws and the amendments to the Copyright Act. The company provided me a great learning platform and I was fortunate to work with veterans like Sandeep, Natasha and Manisha, who were extremely kind to invest their valuable time in mentoring and training me.

     

    Tell us about your work as an Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network Limited. How has the journey at Reliance been so far?

    Reliance Broadcast provides me with simultaneous exposure to the radio & television businesses. I am blessed with a young and vivacious team of lawyers, company secretaries, Charted Accountants, etc. with whom I closely work. My job requires me to juggle between various duties such as drafting & negotiating contracts, regulatory compliance, litigation management, liaison with counsels, intellectual property management & protection, research & strategy, setting SOPs, providing opinions, prescribing S & P procedures, corresponding with government authorities on business and policy related issues. At the office, I’m always on my toes and that’s one of the reasons I love working here.

    The exposure I’ve gained at Reliance has helped me grow professionally as well as personally. My work has been recognised and appreciated due to which I was recommended for a promotion to Assistant Manager within a few months of joining.

    While working under the leadership and able guidance of Asheesh Chatterjee, our Chief Financial Officer, I have been able to develop a strong commercial acumen and now have a more pragmatic & business focused approach. I am very grateful to my bosses – Asheesh Chaterjee, Gururaja Rao and Shikha Kapadia, who always reposed their faith in me and motivated me to perform better.

     

    Please tell us about the recruitment process at RBNL. What do they look for in their prospective employees?

    I have observed that employers are looking for candidates who are eager to learn and are optimistic about work. They want someone who is hard-working and a team-player.

     

    Tell us what your typical work day is like. What kind of work does an Assistant Manager – Legal at Reliance Broadcast Network generally deal with? How has the journey at Reliance been so far?

    A normal day at work would involve one or more of the following:

    • Drafting Agreements
    • Legal Research
    • Regulatory Compliance and correspondence
    • Opinion to S&P Team
    • Due Diligence
    • Court Visit
    • Strategy meetings
    • Liasoning with counsels

    At RBNL, I learn something new each day. I am often assigned tasks that are completely new to me and there is always scope for improving as a professional.

     

    In the meantime, you managed to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property Rights from Mumbai University. Was it a professional requirement to enhance your career?

    Since I was working in the media industry, I thought it would be prudent to pursue a Master’s in Intellectual Property. Besides, I’d like to be a guest lecturer of law, few years down the line.

    How can one apply for an internship at RBNL? What qualities do you look for in an intern?

    The desire to learn and basic understanding of legal concepts are qualities we look for. Usually and candidates pursuing CS and Law are preferred.

     

    What do you think of the young law graduates/students and the standard of education in the field currently?

    I think young law graduates feel inadequately equipped in their initial years of practice. The legal education system should be revamped so as to prepare students for the skills required in practice. Various internships during college years should be encouraged, giving students exposure to litigation, corporate set-ups, judicial jobs, research roles, etc. Once a student is aware of the various options available after graduation, he can make a more informed decision regarding his career path.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    Well, considering my target audience is a group of aspiring lawyers I’d like to say, please make the most of your time during law school and explore the various options available to you. Don’t be swayed into choosing a path just because many of your colleagues are opting for it.  Know your own strengths and weaknesses and figure what is best suited to you. Set goals for yourself and work hard towards achieving them. Remember if you are passionate about your dreams and pursue them diligently, success will inevitably follow.

     

  • Sagnik Ghose, Counsel, FactSet, on work of an in-house counsel at MNCs

    Sagnik Ghose, Counsel, FactSet, on work of an in-house counsel at MNCs

    Sagnik Ghose is currently an in-house counsel for FactSet India. He graduated from NUJS in 2006. While in college, he has worked with Paras Kuhad Associates, Kolkata and interned at Reliance. After law school, Sagnik was an Assistant Manager at Dr. Reddy’s. Subsequently he has worked at the Chugh Firm, an international tax accounting firm, and IBM.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NUJS
    • The first year after graduation
    • Working at various Law Firms and Companies

     

    How was your life before college? Kindly tell us about you pre-university educational background. Plus, do you have lawyers in your family?

    I haven’t had any lawyers in my family. My dad is a doctor and all my uncles are engineers. Plus, I have grown up in Calcutta, a city rich in art, music and cultural heritage. My mother is a trained classical musician. I, however, never had any exposure to law and the legal profession during my years growing up, and even after joining college, other than whatever exposure I got in college itself. Hence, there was almost no exposure to law during my precollege life.

     

    Did you not aspire to become an engineer, doctor or artist, given your family background? How did you get to know about law as a profession and what motivated you to take up the same as a career?

    Well, I was never really pressurised by my parents to do something that I didn’t have an inclination towards. However, I had very little exposure to and knowledge about the scope and array of things which a lawyer can do, except litigation. As and when I was exploring my career options during the final years of school, NUJS had come up as a new college, not even a year old. The motivation to get through to NUJS and join the legal profession was the fact that the university had been set up by Dr. Madhava Menon, who at that point of time (and even now), was a figure to reckon with. I had a discussion with my father about law as a career option, and he supported me completely. After having made up my mind, I gave the entrance exam a serious shot and became the first person in my family to enter the legal profession.

     

    According to you, what should a person, who hasn’t had the fortune of studying in a top law school, do so as to develop skills required in the legal profession? Do you think that they are at the same standing with NLU students?

    Well, my personal opinion is that a person graduating from a top NLU has that extra edge when it comes to campus placements only. On a close look at the industry, we can see that most of the top rated general counsels, partners or senior partners in law firms or senior law officials are from non-blue-blooded law schools, and have made their way to the top through the more difficult old school way, that is, working hard. It is after litigating for years or advising clients in Companies that they have figured out what the clients need. I think that which law school you graduate from makes little difference. Just like my other passion, cooking, it doesn’t matter which culinary school you pass out from. If after passing out, you put in your best, nothing can stop you from becoming a great chef. Even if you fail to get into an NLU, there is no reason to give up hope on the legal profession. If, after entering the professional field, you work hard and apply yourself correctly, you are guaranteed to be a successful counsel. The flip side is that, if you do graduate from an NLU and get placed in a law firm or a Company, you get to learn a lot more during the initial stint of your career. So, yes, there are both pros and cons, but I would say that studying in a top NLU is just a part of it, but certainly not the entire picture.

     

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    How was law school? How did you go about your academics as well as extra-curricular activities? Were you into mooting?

    For me, the law school experience has been very positive. Having studied at NUJS, I got involved in many activities apart from the mandatory academics. I was a part of the student juridical association for a very long time. I did a bit of intra college moots, but I was not too much into mooting. I had realised that a career in litigation was not for me, and therefore, did not place too much of an emphasis on mooting.

    During my final year of law school, all throughout, I used to study in the first half of the day, and during afternoon I used to work in Paras Kuhad and Associates.I used to help them with small issues and research work and worked on various legal questions with a senior, Kushagra. Apart from other internships, this actually helped me mould my understanding of what actually a client is looking for, why a business lawyer is so much in demand, and what is expected from a business lawyer when he joins a Company in house.

    Apart from this, I also worked with Arjya Bir Majumdar, one of my closest friends from school, to help the WWF in whatever way we could. We actually took time off on a Sunday morning, went down to a market in Chingrihata, found turtles being sold (sale of turtle meat is banned), bought one of the live ones with our pocket money (what with us being students and money being short!), and then went to the Alipore Zoo to release it into the water!All of the above, in addition to the obligatory line of heartbreaks and new girlfriends, soulful music and endless food, hanging out at the movie halls and getting hammered at the local bars. It was an eventful five years!

    Despite them thinking otherwise, students actually have a lot of time, and they should take some time off to go get some valuable guidance under a senior lawyer to figure out what excites him or her the most.

     

    Kindly tell us about you internship at Reliance. Was it then that you decided to become an in-house counsel?

    Well, the Reliance internship was definitely the turning point for me. Before that, I had only worked with law firms and NGOs, but the Reliance internship actually changed everything for me. One, I had never spent so much time, almost three months, outside my city, working, that too in a city like Mumbai, which has such a brilliant work environment and where you get to work with the best of legal and business professionals. So the Reliance internship was an eye-opener on a lot of fronts, since I got to work with many good, solid lawyers, some of whom continue to be my friends even after so long. I got a learn a lot about laws around privacy, intellectual properties, copyrights, business laws, both procurement and sales, trademarks, media, technology, basically every law a lawyer can think of under the TMT business. There were a lot of intricacies that were involved in the Reliance internship. Getting a taste of the work, I decided to extend my internship. An internship is normally for 6-8 weeks, but I did it for almost 12 weeks, because of which I missed college a bit, but it was worth it. I also got a very good stipend at the end of my internship. Plus, I got due recognition for the work I did and also built a good rapport with my seniors. I also gave a couple of compliance presentations. Hence, summing up, I got really healthy work, and it helped me realise that working in a Company is something I can actually do, and contribute positively to the growth of a Company.

     

    Would you say that NUJS prepared you for the real professional world? Were the things that were taught at NUJS relevant to your internships and first year at work?

    Well, the answer to that is yes and no. I feel that some of the courses at that time should have been better tuned in the final year when students are looking to enter the work field. I am saying this because when I started working, I realised that almost three quarters of my time is being spent in working on contracts, which is a subject which was taught in the very first year of law school.

    So I really think that our college should have offered an advanced course on contracts, apart from the courses which were taught to us is our final years, to give students an exposure to various aspects of contract law that they would be dealing with while working. There are complex concepts like change control, confidentiality, data privacy and control, termination, warranties, indemnities, limitation of liabilities and there are various aspects to each of these concepts which one has to deal with while strategizing, understanding and negotiating contracts. I really think that every law school should offer, atleast as optional courses, tools which can equip you to deal with situations where you have to negotiate with more experienced professionals.

    For example, the person on the other side of the table would either be an in-house counsel or an external counsel. So, for an in-house counsel, it becomes very important to be more reasonable and break the ice during negotiations, whereas, for external counsels, you have to test waters and understand his level of aggression (because he has to justify his bills, I have more often faced very aggressive external counsels) and knowledge of his client before you start negotiations. Areas like these, which you learn during your professional experience, should atleast be offered as an optional course.

     

    After graduating from NUJS in 2006, you got to join Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories as an Assistant Manager. How did this happen, and what were your responsibilities?

    After passing out in 2006, Iwas appointed as a management trainee, and I spent about a year in probation before getting appointed as an Assistant Manager. In the first year, I was doing general corporate legal work, and then I moved on to more focused branded formulations work. My primary responsibility was to look at all the branded formulation contracts for all the thirty six countries. That is what I used to do for about a year, before I decided to move on.

     

    Many law students suspect that they would need to know a bit about pharmacy and chemistry if they want to join as an in-house counsel at a place like Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories. Is it true?

    Well, again yes and no. If you are looking to join as a fresher then they’ll not expect you to know much about the pharmaceutical industry, which you’ll have to learn on the job. But, if you are looking to join as an experienced professional, then ofcourse they expect you to know things like what licensing terms and conditions typically are, how much time does it take for a molecule to develop and so on. So yes, if you are joining as a fresher, you are not expected to know these nuances but if you join as a professional, you have to have a strong grip on the basics.

     

    How was your experience working there?

    It was excellent! I had a very good mentor in Mr. Narasimha Das, who was their General Counsel. He taught me the basics, like creating a checklist to be looked at while creating, or marking up agreements, managing time, speaking to clients and managing expectations. He exposed me to the maximum number of agreements, co-development, licensing, confidentiality, distribution, marketing, services, IT services, basically, the works. He literally held me by the hand and taught me how to strategize mark-ups and negotiations, learning body language and identifying signs of closure. I owe a great deal to him!

     

    After your work at Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, you moved on to join an international tax accounting firm, the Chugh Firm. How did the shift take place, and how different was it from working at a pharmaceutical firm?

    The Chugh Firm is an international tax accounting firm. However, I joined their Indian partners, Universal Legal. I was a part of the core corporate legal team where I was helping in incorporation of Companies, post incorporation compliances, assisting in agreement processes and so on. It was very different, since I moved from an in-house counsel to a service oriented role. It was very different in terms of work culture.

    Specifically, in a mid-sized ambitious set up like Universal Legal, if you don’t provide answers to clients as of yesterday, your clients just move on the some other firm, which we could not have allowed to happen! Most of our clients used to be start-ups, who are typically hungry and desperate to succeed. They expected super high turnaround time and high quality of work. The thing with start-ups is, if you start off on a good note with them, and if it clicks, then they will be your clients for life. So I did that for about 3 years, where I learned to advise clients on a variety of legal aspects.

     

    After that, you joined IBM. What does an attorney do at an MNC like IBM? What were your responsibilities?

    In big Companies like IBM, the superstructure is usually broken down into wings dedicated for specific purposes. I was appointed at IBM as a deal lawyer for Global Business Services, which is their consultancy business. Basically, I used to negotiate on behalf of IBM from the legal perspective and help close deals for IBM. I used to work closely with sales, taxation, business, solutions and software teams for helping to take calls on questions of liability, protection, tax implications and so on. My time in IBM was very enjoyable, and this is the place which taught me how big Companies manage work efficiently in spite of their bulk and reach. A shout out here to Ajay Dua, who heads the legal function in IBM India for helping me out on multiple occasions with easy, workable solutions to complex problems. He has been an excellent mentor!

     

    At all the three places you worked, was the work similar or did you have to learn new skills every time you joined a new place?

    Well, some basic things like principles of contracts, litigation processes, HR policies etc., have to be the same, because the underlying laws are the same. The important change is whom you are working for. For example, working with Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, you have to think from a global MNC perspective, and the effect on the position of an MNC dealing with pharmaceuticals. When you are dealing with something like pharmaceuticals, the liability is much greater, since human life is involved. One has to exercise extreme amounts of caution when you take on certain liabilities. But when you work with an IT giant like IBM, the life threatening aspect goes off the table.

    However, that doesn’t mean that there is any less liability. In a Company like IBM, you are dealing with large nationalised banks, which perform transactions worth millions of dollars in a single cycle. Accuracy and speed are tantamount to such transactions, and therefore, the liability is no less here.The heads of risk might differ but the risk of doing business is always present. One needs to figure out which risk is acceptable and which risk is absolutely non-acceptable in that particular industry. So there is this learning curve which you go through when you enter any work culture or a firm or a Company, and that is the learning curve you need to adapt to, and once that is done, things easily fall into place. So all the places where I have worked have been extremely different but equally rewarding and enriching as far as my understanding of different workplaces go.

     

    What are the highlights of your career till joining FactSet? How did you decide to leave IBM and join FactSet?

    FactSet has been around for a good 36 years now, and is a global leader in the field of financial information analytics, intelligence and solutions. I decided to leave IBM primarily because at IBM I was doing very high level of work, but I was doing only one kind of work, that is contracts and negotiations. I had no reason to complain, this is how any big Company functions, since efficiency is of paramount importance. After having worked with IBM for three years, the next logical step I could take was to expand my field of work in order to move up. I was looking for an opportunity where I could deal with not just contracts but also corporate matters, administrative matters, general government regulatory mechanisms, compliance matters and the entire gamut of general in house counsel queries, including sales. As a counsel for FactSet, that is just what I do, and it is brilliant working here!

    At FactSet, I have a dual role. One, I provide advice to my internal clients with regard to a number of matters, like contracts, real estate, labour, compliance, government regulations, negotiations and so on. This is at a local level. At the global level,I work a lot with the global team with regard to contract negotiations and deal making. If anybody is looking to move in an MNC which gives dual responsibility, they can expect a kind of work in which they’ll have to work at both local and global levels.

     

    Does your current role at FactSet involve any amount of data crunching?

    No, that is done by the operations team, just like at Dr. Reddy’s, a lawyer is not expected to develop molecules! I am the legal counsel for FactSet. As a legal counsel, you need to understand how the different wings of the Company work in tandem, what risks your Company can or cannot take, how flexible you can be for contract negotiations, which factors should influence your judgment of risks and so on.

     

    Do you have any vacancies for legal interns at FactSet?

    We do not have a permanent internship facility at FactSet. Normally, legal interns are taken for two reasons.

    One, they learn about FactSet and what sort of issues/ concerns come up in a global Company. That is the short term internship, which is for a month or so, which most Companies are open to.

    Secondly, there are long term internships to hunt for a good prospective employee. Currently, we aren’t really pursuing the second kind of aspect since all the positions are full but if somebody wants a shot term internship, then probably we can give it a thought.

     

    What do you think of higher studies as a career strategy? Do you plan to go for higher studies?

    I don’t, but then a couple of years ago I was thinking of an MBA, purely because I was interested in management, setting up a legal team and helping a Company to grow. So I would say that it’s a good idea to work for some years at different places, maybe a combination of Companies and law firms, and figure out what you are actually interested in. At that point of time, one can figure out what kind of higher studies you want to go in for, be it LL.M, MBA or anything. So it entirely depends upon a person. I have a very neutral stance with regard to higher studies, since I have seen many students studying advanced courses but still not making a mark in the market and some who havea simple law degree doing a wonderful job. So it completely depends on the person.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    My opinion is to never specialise early on in your career, especially when you are in law school. That is because when you specialise, you start leaving out on some other spheres of law. Always explore the field. One should know about all the options that are available. There are so many avenues which a lawyer can go into these days, and the scope of work which a law student can do now is phenomenal. Never specialise in your last year of law school or your first year in a job. Just keep on generalising and growing on general strengths. Once you have done that, in around 8-10 years, you can know in what area you really want to go forward, if at all, and then you can specialise.

     

    What is your advice to law students who want to build a great legal work profile?

    A couple of them. One, you need to be a generalist at the start of your career. This comes with a disclaimer, that if you have a lawyer in your family and you at an early stage know what you want to do, it is a different ballgame. But when you don’t have that advantage, you should be a generalist at the start, and you should then build your profile with regard to being a general lawyer who is good at researching and understands the law of the land. It’s not just the work profile as far as going to office and advising your clients is concerned. You should be the scholar who a person on the road can have the confidence of approaching with a legal query and expect a well-structured, solid answer.

    Second, understand what your client wants. Always listen carefully to what your clients are saying, understand their needs and then respond. You don’t need to respond right away, but don’t give them a wrong response.

    Be very careful, since people automatically assume that being a law graduate, you are an expert in all laws. Hence, you need to be extremely careful with the advice you are dispensing. If you have read Kafka, you would be able to draw parallels between law and a big black house in a dream. You turn a corner, and all the roads look the same. It is scary for an outsider. Lawyers are supposed to be the friends, figure out the dream and help their clients. Law is as dangerous a field as medicine. So the amount of trust you place in your doctor, if the same amount of trust your client can place in you, then you are going to make it big, and there is no stopping you.

  • Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar is a practicing Media, Entertainment and Sports lawyer. She graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2012. During law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities including moot court competitions, debates, and conferences. From her law school days, she was interested in IP laws and therefore, pursued internships accordingly. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from KAD Legal and she currently works as an Associate there.

    We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years. In this interview, she talks about:

    • Studying Law from GLC, Mumbai
    • Work opportunities in media-entertainment and sports law
    • Work profile at KAD Legal

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Hi, I am Nandini Kumar. I am a practicing lawyer with a special interest in media-entertainment and sports law. I pursued the B.L.S LL.B. degree offered by Government Law College, Mumbai after finishing my secondary education at Delhi Public School, R.K. Puram.

     

    How would you describe your time at GLC, Mumbai? What are the co-curricular activities you took part in GLC?

    Being a part of the oldest law college in the country was a great learning experience.

    Since my school days, I have been involved in various social service activities and consequently, I chose to be a part of the Social Service League and Rotaract Club in college. I was also the Director of the Community Services, Rotaract Club in the second year.

     

    What sort of internships did you do while in law school? How instrumental were these internships in helping you decide what field of law you wished to specialize in?

    I have been interning since the first year of college. My first internship was with Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court, Mr. Vijay Hansaria who got me involved in a trademark litigation which made me inquisitive about intellectual property laws. Thereafter, I have interned at Krishna and Saurashtri, Walt Disney, Puneet Aggarwal (Advocate of Delhi High Court), Hindustan Coca-Cola Beverage Private Limited, Nishith Desai Associates and KAD Legal. These internships gave me a platform to understand the nuances of the legal profession. Most of my internships were related to intellectual property matters and drafting agreements and since I was blessed with amazing mentors at my internships, I think they played a pivotal role in my decision to pursue a career in the non-litigation media-entertainment space.

     

    Do NLU students have an edge over the non-NLU students?

    NLU students may have an edge over the non-NLU students when it comes to placements, however, I feel that each individual and their interest in learning the tricks of the trade are essential for kick-starting the career and continuous growth thereafter.

     

    You began your professional career with KAD Legal Consultants and currently works as an Associate there. How did you secure your appointment?

    I was offered a PPO at KAD Legal Consultants as I had done repetitive internships at the firm during and after the third year of college. I have had a wonderful learning experience since then at the firm.

    The firm recruits associates based on the requirements of the firm. In the past, either the final year interns have been absorbed or experienced associates have been engaged after a series of interview, both oral and written.

     

    What does your current work profile at KAD Legal Consultants consists of? Tell us a bit about the firm, your typical workday and the overall work/life balance.

    My current work profile consists of trademark prosecution, media and entertainment which primarily involves drafting and negotiating agreements for production houses, music composers, directors, actors and other personnel of the Indian film and television industry, persons/ companies in digital media and sports persons. The firm is a boutique law firm with an expertise in the intellectual property and securities law related matters.

    Typical work day starts at 9:30am and begins, without fail, by making a to-do list followed by drafting agreements, trademark work, client interaction and reading to update myself with the current affairs. Regarding work/life balance, just after graduation, my father gave me a book with various quotes and life lessons in relation to work/life balance. Two quotes out of the lot made a huge impact on me were “Life is not about work, office and clients. There is more to life. You need to socialize, entertain, relax and exercise. Don’t let life be meaningless” and “A person who stays late in office is not a hardworking person, instead he/she is a fool who doesn’t know how to manage work within the stipulated time. He/She is inefficient and incompetent in his work”. Initially it was difficult, but I have made best endeavours to finish work on time in order to have the luxury of having a work/life balance.

     

    What brought you towards Media and Entertainment Law?

    I come from a non-legal background, I had zero exposure to law before law school but I have grown up watching movies and it was extremely fascinating for me to understand how law protects the makers of movies, how brands are safeguarded, how law prohibits people from copying and manufacturing designs of a fashion designers. Intellectual property laws which form the basis of media-entertainment law made me understand these aspects and that’s why I chose to be a media-entertainment lawyer.

     

    Tell us something about this new and emerging field of law that you practice?

    Media-Entertainment and Sports law practice is niche and upcoming field of intellectual property law. What makes it interesting is that is still evolving which requires constant learning and interpretation of law.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    As humans we all make mistakes. My strategy has been to accept the mistakes I have made, learn from the errors and avoid repeating them. I would advise young associates to own up to the mistakes and bring it to the attention of their senior as soon as possible. Also, have zero tolerance towards repetition of same mistakes.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    As an intern at KAD, I had assisted Mr. Kiran Desai (the Founding Partner) in drafting an endorsement agreement of a celebrity and was very excited and proud to see the hoardings of that endorsement.  My parents got particularly excited to see my name in the credits of a movie, for which the firm had provided legal assistance.

    As a media lawyer, I need to prepare for negotiations. To prepare for negotiations, I make it a point to understand the client’s needs, follow client instructions and know the agreement being negotiated inside out. I also try to have legal and logical reasoning for most of the negotiations that are put forward.

     

    Does KAD Legal Consultants take interns? Please tell us the procedure. What do they look for in their prospective interns and employees?

    Yes, KAD Legal does take interns. Law students can apply for internships by sending their resume along with the covering letter to contact@kadlegal.com. The firm believes in giving everyone a platform to learn. Prospective interns and employees are expected to be eager to apprehend the media-entertainment and sports law and the practical aspects of the related business. They are also expected to have clarity in thought process and expression.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    Actual’ learning does come with practice and also experience. The laws are the same for everyone. The practice and the experience provide the capability of applying and interpreting the law in the relevant situation that the client’s face. The practice and the ability to use the experience distinguish a “senior partner” from an “associate” and also a “good lawyer” from a “lawyer”. In my situation, I think I have also grown as a lawyer with time and have started identifying issue points better.

     

    Many law school students aspire to secure a job. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observations?

    In today’s age, I don’t think there is anything wrong in aspiring to secure a job. It is important to understand, during the course of job, if the work excites you enough to want to learn and grow else it’s the waste of time and energy both of the employee and the employer.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Be open to learning and exploring. Think and apply your mind to every situation that appears before you. Especially, to the students who intend to intern, don’t consider any assignment given to be small or irrelevant. Good luck. 🙂

  • Jyoti Shekhar, Senior Associate, Legasis Partners on LL.M from Deakin University and work experience in Corporate Law

    Jyoti Shekhar, Senior Associate, Legasis Partners on LL.M from Deakin University and work experience in Corporate Law

    Jyoti Shekar is currently working as a Senior Associate at Legasis Partners, Delhi. She graduated with a B.S.L.LL.B degree from ILS Law College, Pune in 2007. Thereafter she started working at Mindcrest India Pvt Ltd. as a Legal Analyst. She then went on to pursue Masters in Commercial laws from Deakin University, Australia and has thereafter worked with OSC Export Services Pvt. Ltd. and Sahara India.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at ILS, Pune and Deakin, Melbourne
    • Work experience at OSC Export Services Pvt. Ltd. and Sahara India
    • Work as Senior Associate at Legasis Partners

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Please tell us a bit about how you gravitated towards law.

    Usually, I just introduce myself as a lawyer. I really do take pride in being a part of this industry, however small. Right from my childhood, I have always wanted to do law. Perhaps it had something to do with people telling me to be a lawyer due to my talkative and argumentative behaviour, or perhaps some impression left on me by a very illustrious Supreme Court Judge who was a distant relative and used to tell me stories. Honestly, I don’t know. But I do know that I never had a moment’s doubt about being a lawyer and yes, I still just introduce myself as a lawyer.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at ILS Law College, Pune. How were you at academics?

    My college life was a lot of fun and a lot of hard work too. I was always a topper during my school days. In fact, my school refused to let me elect commerce in high school. Only after I threatened to quit the school, they reluctantly allowed me to take commerce. But I thoroughly enjoyed accountancy and business studies. I started pursuing the C.A. course along with my LL.B. That’s what kept me busy throughout college life. But I didn’t finish CA after all. But honestly, like any college student does, studying law was a last minute preparation for me, cramming all night and sacrificing sleep. I got average grades but I did have my share of fun in college.

     

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    How important would you say good grades are for an illustrious career in legal?

    Honestly, as a student, marks and percentages mean the world to us. However, to be honest, I believe that experiencing the practical world with different kinds of people, different cultures, behaviours etc. is more important in the real world. Of course, a good grade point average is important to get into good schools for further education and to make your CV look better. But honestly, after your first job, the interviews are more about how you handle people and situations. Book knowledge is something you can always refer to, but living in the practical world and dealing with colleagues, bosses and clients is the key. I guess what I am trying to say is that although a good grade is wonderful, but it shouldn’t be your entire focus.

     

    How do you think internships are beneficial to law students?

    I think the best way to learn is to practice. Internships are the best source of knowledge. Looking back, I do wish I had done more internships in college. However, internships should not be just about getting certificates. To get a headstart, try to be inquisitive and learn the knack of research, reading a contract, drafting an email, observing in meetings and courts etc.

     

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    Thereafter, you went to pursue Masters in Commercial Law from Deakin University. How would you describe your experience? What motivated you to go in for the same?

    I had an amazing experience during my masters. Actually, after finishing LL.B, I wanted a good job with a good salary. However, my father encouraged me to think long term. He told me that a good qualification will open up opportunities I couldn’t comprehend at that time. And he also said studying in a different country would expose me to different learning methods and will be a life experience. And he was right. I somehow found the courage to go ahead with the LLM plan and even felt excited by the prospect of experiencing a very different culture and academic system. That’s when the idea of going to Australia hit me. And it turned out to be the best decision of my life. When I went there, I did not know anybody in the country. Everything was completely new and different. I slowly learnt to speak their way, I worked in a grocery store, worked in their deli (and I am a strict vegetarian!!), I learnt their way of studying. We did not have exams, we only had research papers instead, lots of them. It was a whole different approach for me. I also learnt to be among people of different cultures and traditions – Australians, Chinese, Sri Lankans, and Europeans. It was very enriching. I am still active with the university’s alumni association in India. They have a lot of business networking events and activities.

     

    Do you think it makes sense for students to go overseas to study law when they want to practice in India?

    There was actually a time when a foreign degree looked good on CVs and that is partly why I went abroad. But as I mentioned above, it became more of a life experience for me. And another plus is that I learnt a lot about research and writing methods. Now actually, when people ask me this question, I really don’t know how to respond, since our academic system has also improved a lot and I feel it is a personal choice rather than a mandate.

     

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    After coming back to India, you joined OSC Export Services Pvt. Ltd. as a Consultant. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there?

    I simply applied to their vacancy ad. They had a series of written tests which I cleared. Of course, it was quite prestigious for me to start working there after my studies due to its association with Clifford Chance LLP. I got an opportunity to work in Clifford Chance London and New York offices which exposed me to international transactions and practices.

     

    Thereafter you joined Sahara India as Manager Legal – Corporate Finance. What led to this shift? What kind of challenges did you face during this job?

    Though I was doing quite well in my current job at the time, I wanted to get some in-house experience, which is what I wanted out of my career then – to be an in-house counsel. When the Sahara opportunity came along, I grabbed it, especially because it required me to be in the finance department, which was fast becoming my forte. Even in Clifford Chance, I was associated with their Banking and Finance department. It turned to be an amazing sea of experience with wonderful projects. Each of us lawyers had to deal with our projects independently. I loved every minute of it. The challenges were plenty; I had to pilot transactions right from proposal stage to post closing stage, of course with the assistance of external counsels, especially in other jurisdictions. We reported to the Corporate Finance Head, who had a surprisingly good grasp of legalese. It provided me with a lot of learning and knowledge.

     

    Currently, you work as a Senior Associate at Legasis Partners. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    Well, the Managing Partner of Legasis Partners, Mr. Suhas Tuljapurkar, is my absolute role model in this profession. I had interned with him in Mumbai and also worked with him in Pune at the beginning of my career. I jumped at the chance of working with him again in Delhi when the opportunity presented itself. I was planning my exit from Sahara and everything just fell into place.

     

    What kind of work and responsibilities do Senior Associates at Legasis Partners deal with?

    In Legasis Partners, we are given the opportunity to develop ourselves as professionals as per our interests and skill sets. Here, we do not believe in designations and everybody pitches in to help achieve the common objective of growth. It gives me an opportunity to be independent and learn to take decisions and also to explore various ways in which I can be useful to the organization and hence to my own self as a well rounded professional.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    Well, a parent is equally proud of all their children. Every project I have done so far, be it small or big or high profile, has made me learn new things.

    To answer the second part of your question, in any transaction, homework is the key. I need to know the entire background before starting a project. And I never hesitate to ask questions, even at the risk of sounding ridiculous. If I have a doubt in my mind, then I cannot do a convincing job.

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? How challenging is life as a corporate lawyer?

    Corporate law has developed a lot in the past few years. With the new Companies Act in force, there are lots of stringent regulations which necessitate having a strong in-house team in every company. Corporate lawyers can either be in-house or work in law firms. There is no formula for being a successful corporate lawyer, though I personally believe that grasp of legal and contractual language is very crucial to this role. Also important is your negotiation skills which comes with experience. It is also important to understand the business and commercial aspects of the transaction to be valuable to your company/clients.

    Being a transactional lawyer, life can be very hectic while a transaction is in progress. Once I had taken my laptop along on my birthday dinner! But it can be quite exciting at certain times and routine at others.

     

    What are the other related fields where a corporate lawyer can try hand apart from joining law firms and corporate houses?

    There are LPOs for those who like a little more regular timings and good salaries. However, these days, this depends on projects and deadlines too. Legal journalism is another interesting option. We need a lot of good law professors in different subjects. Then there are research related profiles in legal search engine companies. There are law publishing houses for those whose tastes are literary. People now are specializing in areas like legal recruitments, business development for law firms etc. I have just mentioned a few, there are lots more out there waiting to be explored and discovered.

     

    What do you cherish most about the experience you’ve had over the past two years?

    I have cherished every stage of my career. I interned with law firms and CA firms. I worked in LPOs. I worked as in-house counsel. I work in a law firm now. Every place has taught me a new perspective in which to look at the law and a new way in which to deal with people and situations.

     

    What are your plans from here on?

    I love doing different things, learning new areas and doing what I love to do. I am initiating myself in giving lectures also, whenever I can spare the time. Let’s see what the future holds. 🙂

     

  • Sirsanya Bandopadhyay, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on building a career in litigation and experience in Politics

    Sirsanya Bandopadhyay, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on building a career in litigation and experience in Politics

    Sirsanya Bandopadhyay is a practising Advocate at the Calcutta High Court. He graduated from Jogesh Chandra Choudhuri College of Law (Calcutta University) in 2010.While in college, he was an active participant in the student political body of the University and gradually grew along with it. He became the General Secretary and subsequently President of the Students’ Union. He is also the youngest member to have been inducted into the Trinamul Congress’ Party Core Committee. Currently he practices at the Calcutta High Court.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying law at JCCCL, Kolkata
    • Students’ union and joining politics
    • Building a career in litigation

     

    How would you say your parents or close family members inspired you in taking up law?

    Though my father is an Advocate by profession and several others, from his maternal side, are in the same profession, the decision to pursue law was entirely my own. The same was taken while I was in the 3rd Standard. When I was in my third standard, one fine morning, the first thing that caught my attention was a huge picture of my father in his robes on the front page of the Bengal daily, Ananda Bazar Patrika. And I suppose that impression lived with me throughout my life and each day thereafter I imagined myself in those robes and in that corridor of the High Court at Calcutta. In fact, there have also been times when I wore his robes at home, when he wasn’t around as that gave me profound happiness.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your father, Mr. Kalyan Bandopadhyay’s practice. As a mentor, how did he influence your career? Did you get to hear a lot of legal discussions right from your childhood?

    My father was into business before various events led him to his senior, Late Mahitosh Mazumdar, J., under whom he practised till his senior’s elevation on 17th February 1986. As I have heard from my father, his life as a young advocate was not very easy but he worked really hard to climb up the ladder, gathering and embracing every bit of work that came his way. In his initial days he stayed in a mess with others and after his marriage he and my mother started a family in a one-room rented shelter on the terrace of a house in Dhakuria. From there his hard work has taken him to where he is today. His dedication, diligence and love towards his work has fetched him respect and repute in legal and political fields as well.

    Such stories of hard work are an inspiration in itself and surely they have inspired me to work hard and remain dedicated and grounded always. But my father never dictated what I should do in life, apart from regular reminders that I need to study hard. I must also mention that while nurturing the thought of becoming an Advocate, the stories and works of Late Siddhartha Shankar Ray had influenced me all the more.

    Legal discussions were mostly restricted to his chamber. My sister and I did eavesdrop on his telephonic conversations at home, talking about some matter or some interesting point of law, but they cannot be termed as hearing proper legal discussions.

     

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    Your father is also a  Lok Sabha MP and  a member of  All India Trinamul Congress Party. Did you ever think of joining politics after him?

    I joined politics even before I could realise that I had done the same. When I was fourteen years old, my father contested his first Assembly Elections from Asansol in 2001. I took a month off from school and stayed back in Asansol with him to manage his office work. Whenever I used to feel bored I used to go out with him and be a part of the campaigning. After he won in 2001, I made regular visits to Asansol from time to time and in the process got acquainted with many party workers from that area. While joining JCCLC in 2005 the only advice that came from my father was not to join the Students’ Union. But situations in college had led to factions and I happened to become a voice in the anti-incumbent faction. The students’ election in 2005 was shady and that gave fuel to the anti-incumbent motives. But I tried to abide by my father’s advice by not contesting the elections and not going to political meetings till the year 2006. But gradually the state of affairs worsened in college and it somehow demanded my active participation. I was too scared to tell my father that I was not being able to act upon his advice and contested the 2006 college elections without his consent. However, the same was brought to his knowledge by a so-called leader of the other faction during one of his morning walks. But surprisingly he didn’t tell me anything, probably because he also heard that I too had voluntarily associated myself with Trinamul Congress’s Students’ Wing.

    Stories of our anti-incumbent movement started spreading like forest fire and other colleges started inviting us for public meetings and rallies against SFI, which back then had a strong hold in most of the colleges in Bengal so much so that at one point of time, I had covered almost all the colleges in South Bengal in order to speak against SFI. The factions in rightist wings in college led to the growth of SFI/AISB in my college as well and hence the fight became a full-time job both inside and outside college. After handling matters in college till 12 noon or 1 pm, sometimes I along with my friends or at times I alone used to travel to remote locations and distant colleges in order to carry on our fight against the communist parties. In 2007, during the Singur agitation I was asked by Ms. Mamata Banerjee to speak in a public meeting at Singur to be held on 28th August 2007. The previous night I was at the southern tip of South 24 Parganas but the offer was too lucrative to be turned down and hence there I was, at my first public gathering at Singur in front of lakhs and lakhs of workers and general people who had gathered on the National Highway during Ms. Banerjee’s historic fast. After a string of such meetings I was inducted as a member of the Party’s Core Committee and I was the youngest among all the members. In the meantime, my friends and juniors in my college elected me as the General Secretary and thereafter President of the Students’ Union. The period between the year 2008 and May 2011 was spent in a state of madness. Family, friends and social life took a back seat while I and my friends/associates strived together towards the sole goal of toppling the Communist Government.

     

    Tell us about your years in Jogesh Chandra Choudhuri Law College (Calcutta University). What made your journey at JCCLC worth it?

    My studentship in JCCLC had started off like any other student freshly out of school. The 1st year of college was mostly consumed by fun & frolic. But the shady elections of 2005 planted the seeds of anti-incumbency in me and my friends. From then onwards, a lot of time used to be spent behind political activities. Such political activities continued till my final year in college in the year 2010. When my father came to learn about my active participation in Students’ Union, he didn’t tell me anything probably because a latent rider of good results at the end of each session played in my favour. Thus, studying hard became a ticket to an unlimited time in Students’ politics. But I was never a believer of year-round studies in law courses. Instead I spent some 20-30 days studying before exams and luckily that saw me through with palatable marks. While many of my batch-mates relied upon private tuitions during the five year course, never did I think of any such tuition for myself. What our teachers taught in class and my sister’s notes from Hazra Law College was enough for me. In fact, our Companies Law & Tax teacher Dr. N. Bhattacharya lent his free time and cleared out our doubts in Taxation Laws after college hours in the college library. In the same breath, I would like to say that our Constitution Teacher Mrs. A. Kundu is probably the best in Kolkata. Whatever I have learnt in her Constitution classes still remains a reference point from time to time. The others whom I didn’t specifically name have an equal contribution to the little knowledge I have.

    There is something in the air of JCCLC which is unmatched as compared to any other college. The closed doors between 7-11am breed a feeling of family and camaraderie. The fact that we had nowhere to go once inside the college premises made us dependant on and habituated with each other. I not only give credit to JCCLC, it’s teachers, staffs and students for my legal acumen but also for my much important social knowledge and administrative vis-a-vis leadership skills.

     

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    What were your plans after graduation? Did you consider joining the Civil Services ever? Which career options were available to you as a fresh graduate?

    As I said, my plan since childhood was to practise law. I never wavered on that until I actually joined practice in December 2010. In the meantime I did consider every other job/profession/business but honestly the legal profession stood out every single time. In fact, in my Higher Secondary I had opted for Science so that my options post school remain open for every other field, in case I decide not to study law. As far as Civil Service is concerned I never thought I will be able to crack those UPSC or WBCS examinations.

    As a fresh graduate several career options were available like MBA and LL.M as far as higher education is concerned. Management with law is still considered to be a lethal combination. Other job oriented options included Law Firm, LPO, BPO or private practice. While I chose the latter one, several other friends and juniors opted for the other three and are doing well.

     

    As a fresher just out of college, how did you manage to get a mentor for yourself? How important do you think a mentor still is in the arena of litigation?

    Coming from a legal background, I knew several other Advocates whom I could join. Since I used to go to Court sometimes, during my college days, I had my own favourites as well. But choosing a mentor wasn’t quite planned. In the latter part of Part V, I used to attend my father’s chamber but sometime in July 2010, I was badly reprimanded by my father for some reason and my rage made me decide that I wouldn’t go to his chamber anymore. But since I wanted to practise, attending someone’s chamber was important and necessary. While I was fuming with anger, my current senior’s name came to my mind and I rushed to Mr. Kishore Datta’s chamber at Dhakuria. He used to be my father’s junior since 1991/92 till around 2000. His long standing association with our family makes him a part of my family too. Thus, on 16th July 2010 I landed up in his chamber and said “ কাল থেকে আমি এখানেই আসব ” (I shall join here tomorrow).  In his usual unperturbed way he said, “Why from tomorrow? Take the D. D. Basu (on Constitution) and start today.”

    In our generation, many choose to work without a mentor or without joining someone’s chamber because they must be comfortable that way. But as far as I am concerned I will not be able to manage. Though at times when the matter or situation so demands, I appear before the Courts alone, I am extremely dependant on my senior and will like to continue under him as long as I can. In the past four and a half years of my practice under him I have never been able to satisfy my senior with my work, but I believe my perseverance & endeavour to satisfy him with my work is my path to knowledge and success.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    During graduation there were several favourites. Some because of the teachers who taught the subject while some because of the slim books. Arbitration, Constitution, C.P.C. and Environmental Laws are some favourites I remember from my graduation days. But interest brings with it disinterest. And one subject which totally repelled me was Intellectual Properties. As a matter of fact in one Academic Session I did not attend a single IP class. When my attendance in other six subjects was 80%, I had 0% in IP Classes. But such absenteeism was calculated so that I was not debarred to sit for the final examinations.

     

    After your graduation in 2010, you started practising at Calcutta High Court. What influenced your decision to work in litigation?

    Since the inception I wanted to be in litigation and not in some legal/government job. I always found a desk-job too monotonous and clerical. This is strictly my personal opinion and not meant to hurt or demean anyone. In an advocate’s career no two cases can be similar, just like finger-prints or human ears. The possibility of waking up to a new challenge or going to sleep with a new thought, a new understanding of law, drives me to work day in and day out. Such possibilities are remote in desk jobs. Law firms may provide such an opportunity if one lands up in a litigation oriented law firm, but being dictated by someone is not my cup of tea. And I have always been a bad employee, since the days of part-time-jobs at an event management company. The day I had quit, was probably the happiest day in the life of my boss, Mr. S. Kamal.

     

    A lot of law students prefer corporate jobs over a career in litigation. What is your take on this?

    The corporate sector has no relation to litigation as such. Experience in the corporate sector will not lead anyone anywhere in litigation. Litigation is a different ball game altogether. Corporate skills don’t help when the Judges ask you a question of law out of nowhere. Learning to deal with the Seniors and Judges in court needs a different expertise which takes years. Like all roads lead to Rome, all legal matters lead to Courts. I prefer to be at the juncture of certainty than at the point of probability.

     

    How is the work atmosphere at the Calcutta High Court presently? What have you faced as a fresh graduate?

    Calcutta High Court is like my second home; advocates there my family. No matter how bad the work atmosphere is, I shall always find it rosy. Rather, I believe if 7000-8000 Advocates can come and make a living there, the work atmosphere cannot be that bad. But then again, there is no standard to measure the same. It is as good as your perception and as bad as your negativity. True, that there is room for improvement. Advocates here areunder paid as compared to Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai or Bangalore. There is also a chord of gender-bias. The ratio of male to female advocates is still appalling and the ratio of male to female Judges is not encouraging as well.

    Life as a fresher is still as tough as it was two or four decades back. But back then, a fresh graduate had no option whatsoever to advertise and/or market himself which is readily available these days; courtesy: the social media. The concept of Public Relations was less important back then as compared to this day. Though I myself am quite fresh in litigation, the only advice to the even fresher graduates venturing into the field of litigation will be to be honest and dedicated. It is not about pedigree or clientele. It’s about discipline, dedication and delivery. If one chooses to work in the field of Litigation, one must come to court regularly, whether he/she has work or not. Coming to Court regularly fetches work by itself. Secondly, one must observe. In the field of litigation no one has the time to teach anyone else hands on. One has to learn by himself and for that one has to observe; not only big or high profile matters or Counsels, but everything under the sun. One has to observe the presentation of facts, the law, the other Court-crafts, how one deals with the clients, how one delivers. The domain is so huge that even after five years, I sometimes feel that my learning is worth only of a day. I sometimes feel it was only yesterday that I joined and that leads me to the third most important thing, patience. One has to be patient; patient at every juncture. One has to be patient when there is no work, one has to be patient when there is ample amount of work. One has to be patient in victory as well as in defeat. Lack of patience has driven several fresh graduates out of Court and I do not want the readers of this blog to face the same. Thus, the conclusion I would like to draw is that litigation is not difficult but very time consuming.

     

    What should be the way forward for legal education in India? Doesn’t legal education need a restructuring?

    I do not agree with such a notion. As per my understanding, two industries shall never face the bear, one is religion and the other is legal. To quote my senior Mr. Datta, “This is one place (to be read as legal industry) which has maximum revenue but zero production”.

    The process of legal education is two-folds. One, which is being imparted to law students and the other, which should be imparted to other citizens, lay men, as we may call them. The first, needs to be fortified by current affairs and up-to-date case laws. Not only the Advocates but also the teachers must be well versed with the recent judgements of the Hon’ble Supreme Court and concerned Hon’ble High Courts. A habit must be inculcated amongst the students to be philosophical about law and not just mechanically memorise the statutes. New understanding, new thoughts, out-of-the-box ideas must be given a channel towards public and/or expert gaze. The second, process must be simplified and made accessible. Spreading legal awareness is of utmost importance and the same must be done, with honesty and sincerity and not for the sake of doing it. It is sad that even today, across the world, people have family physicians but not family-lawyers. Law must be made affordable and accessible to everyone.

    The above is irrespective of my dissent in calling legal profession an industry. The lack of processing raw materials and manufacture of goods disallows the legal profession to be termed as an industry.

     

    Do you think having a legal background is a great advantage to flourish in this profession?

    It is a myth according to me. Having a legal background is more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

    First of all, when one joins the profession one doesn’t only inherit friends but also foes. For no reason a fresher is thrown into work politics by some seniors who are double the fresher’s age. In our social structure, an Abhishekh is expected to give the same performance like a Amitabh Bachchan in his very first movie and an Arjun is expected to make the Indian Team and score a century in his very first match like a Sachin Tendulkar. The constant comparison, the loads of expectation and the unending attempts to be pulled down is very unnerving. But as I said, patience & hard work is the only cure all these not so pleasant situations.

    At the same time, having access to my father’s library at wee hours of the night or early hours in the morning as per requirement is definitely an advantage. In a place where everyone is for himself, having someone your own whom you can trust and/or rely upon blindly is definitely a psychological advantage if not anything else. It gives one an internal strength to push through the odds.

    Since I have not flourished in the profession yet, I do not know what it takes to flourish, but what I have learned is that being honest and dedicated fetches you work. It is a continual cycle where you have to be honest and dedicated to receive work and to do the work to the best of your ability for the next and thus the cycle goes on.

     

    What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    My workday generally starts at 7.30 in the morning and ends according to the work pressure but definitely not before 12 at night. The hours in between are dotted with little naps, rest and ‘adda’. But in my five years of practice in Court I have not considered my work as “work”. It is more of a hobby than a profession. Even during holidays or days off when I have nothing else to do I go to my chamber and sit down with a journal. My legal profession is my favourite pastime. Everything else seems like work to me. To me, nothing can be more interesting than talking to my clients, drafting new matters, preparing for matters on the day prior to every working day or just reading journals in the vacuum. I reiterate that every matter is different from the other. Every matter requires some other research. Even if two matters are same, the experience gathered from the first makes me research and go to the depth in the second.

     

    What are the difficulties one may face starting out? How difficult would you say it is to build a reputed practice?

    Since I love every bit of my profession I do not think there have been many difficulties apart from those stated above. I have enjoyed work, as well as the phases without work. I am a learner. When I have work, I learn through the work, when I do not have much work, I learn randomly. When I started, I neither had any expectations of income nor did I have any expectation of work. Everything fell into place with time. But to build a reputation, it takes a lot of hard work. One needs to decide how he wants to be known. Since I could not fathom how much knowledge I would be able to gather, I decided to be known as being honest. And I have built on it each day. I have tried to remain dedicated and deliver work as and when asked for. I do not know for sure how many exact years it takes to build a clientele. It may take 10 years to have one returning client or it may take 1 second to lose 100 clients. All these variables of income, expenditure, clients, etc are actually immaterial at the end of the day. Working with honesty and integrity is of primary importance. I repeat, building a profession, a reputation is not difficult, it’s just time consuming.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    I do not think I am someone important enough to be interested in. But I have taken this process of interview to remember who I am. Amid a lot of work pressure and various events in life, we often forget who we are. This interview turned out to be a good deal of introspection and was a good way to remember what I knew about myself and learn what I didn’t.

  • Tulika Srivastava, Senior Manager – Legal, at L’Oréal, on law school and building a career after graduation

    Tulika Srivastava graduated from Amity Law School in 2005 and had thereafter worked with Crawford Bayley & Co., DSK Legal and Nicholas Piramal India Ltd. She currently works as Senior Manager – Legal at L’Oreal India Private Limited.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at Amity Law School
    • Work at Crawford Bayley, DSK Legal and Nicholas Piramal
    • Current work profile of Senior Manager – Legal at L’Oréal

     

    What inspired you to study Law? How did you get through to Amity Law School?

    Back in 2000, when I passed out of school, I was at that juncture of my life (which every confused and aspiring teenager goes through) where I didn’t know where to head. However, luckily for me, I got the much needed guidance from my school and parents who helped me realise where my true interest lay. I took a conscious decision based on the subjects of my interest back then and, therefore, it only made sense for me to pursue a career in the field of law.

    I had to take an entrance test to get into Amity. This was 15 years ago and a lot has changed since then, including the admission process.

     

    Tell us about your law school journey from the 1st year till your final year. As a law student which extra activities did you participate in? How important are these co-curricular activities?

    We were the second batch of Amity Law School, and that allowed us to gain exposure in an array of fields. There were no precedents to follow and that only worked in our favour – as we were learning through experimentation and from our own mistakes. We had a sound internal faculty and considering our location and the proximity to the Apex Court of India, we also had a host of legal luminaries as visiting faculty.

    While I was a part of the Internal Moot Court Committee, I also led the Dramatics Society at the same time and won many accolades for my College. Co-Curricular and other activities help you develop an all-round personality, improve your interpersonal skills and also boost your self-confidence. Moreover, law school journey is not an easy one – activities apart from your regular curriculum, therefore, help you refresh the burdened mind as well.

     

    How should one go about the internships? How important it is for a law student to plan out the course of his internships to successfully gain from the internship experience?

    Internship ‘planning’ can be very unique to each individual depending largely on his/her aspirations. It could be a straight jacketed single stream internship pattern or you could chose to get flavours of various fields. There are pros and cons of both. Whichever method you chose, make sure your internships help you design your career path eventually – whether it’s in corporate, litigation or academia.

    The importance of Internships lies in a simple known fact that Law cannot be taught or learnt merely from textbooks. You have to know the applicability and the consequence of each and every act, rules, sections you learn. This is where internships play a vital role, which gives you a real life practice experience while you are in law school. In fact, at times, internships may also give students an opportunity to learn subjects which may not be a part of their curriculum at law school.

    Primarily, as a law student, you will find yourself spending a lot of time in the library (which also includes legal web portals now) doing researches on diverse subjects. So do not expect much more than that in your first few internships. Subsequently, in finalyears of law college, you may be given opportunities to assist the associates in legal writing as well. Do not fret if you do not master the flair of drafting during your short internship periods, because “drafting” is one skill which requires constant polishing and honing. Make the most of your internships, grab as much as you can, do not be afraid to ask questions, because once you are a law graduate you will be expected to have answers to all those questions.

     

    Would you say the ‘NLU’ branding helps its students?

    Yes it is true to a certain extent in my opinion. NLU is a fantastic brand to have on your profile, which will definitely ensure you get the best break in this profession. But at the end of the day, your merits and hard work do play a significant role which take you places.

     

    After graduating you joined Crawford Bayley & Co. as an Associate Trainee. How did the appointment take place? What did your work profile consist of as an Associate Trainee?

    I landed in Mumbai right after I passed out of the Law College, without any leads or contacts, and without any exposure in the Mumbai legal circle. The primary task for me was to chalk out my first Five Year Plan. From the past experiences gathered during my varied internships, I had a fair clue where I was headed. I knew it was imperative for me to start with litigation so as to understand the basics, thereafter broaden my horizon by acquiring knowledge in different streams of law and eventually settle down as an in-house counsel. I, hence, sent my application to a few leading firms specialized in litigation. I got a call back from Crawford Bayley & Co. and an interview meeting was set up with a Senior Partner, pursuant to which I was recruited as an Advocate Trainee in the field of civil and corporate litigation. This was the best start I could hope for because this experience not only helped me create a very strong foundation but also gave me an in-depth knowledge about the City Civil Court and Bombay High Court functioning, its procedures, departments, etc.

     

    Thereafter you left Crawford Bayley& Co. and had joined DSK Legal. What led to this shift? How was your experience working there?

    I was working towards my set target. The second step now was to acquire exposure and knowledge in diverse fields of law. DSK Legal offered exactly that and was, hence, a natural progression for me.

    While I had joined DSK as an Associate in the Litigation Team of the Firm, I was fortunate enough to be able to undertake a wide variety of tasks ranging from Capital Markets, Equity as well as Debt. I found myself exposed to multiple streams, so it was a little intellectually challenging but at the same time extremely gratifying and rewarding. Each transaction and each matter was full of new experiences and opportunities. All in all, I can say that DSK Legal provided me a well-rounded experience.

     

    You thereafter left DSK Legal to start working at Nicholas Piramal India Ltd. as Legal Manager. What did this shift happen? What does Nicholas Piramal do and what was the nature of your work there?

    A move like this was scheduled for a little later in my scheme of timelines. However, I didn’t mind when then this opportunity came my way, as it was a part of the bigger game plan in any case. “Sooner the better” I thought and jumped right in when I got an offer to work for the Indian Pharmaceutical giant Piramal Healthcare Limited (erstwhile Nicholas Piramal India Ltd.).

    My work there was a mixed bouquet, which comprised of everything I had learnt till then and much more. I was responsible for end to end legal requirements of the business divisions I was handling, right from litigation, to business and brand acquisition, to intellectual property protection and of course, contract negotiation, drafting and management. The whole transition of switching from a practicing lawyer to an in-house counsel was not as easy as it seemed back then. It was not just a change of job, it was a change in the whole outlook, accountability and orientation as a legal practitioner.

     

    You are currently working at L’Oréal India Private Limited as Senior Manager – Legal. How did the switch from Nicholas take place?

    Learning is constant – that’s the basic premise for a successful lawyer. After 4 years at Piramal, it only made sense to change my industry in order to maintain my learning graph. L’Oréal gave me an opportunity to use my existing skills and apply the same in a different environment. More importantly it offered acquiring new skill sets essential for a corporate lawyer. I was contacted for a preliminary interview which was followed by several discussions with and within the senior management at L’Oréal and which ultimately got me on board.

     

    How is a typical workday like?

    L’Oréal is an atypical workplace. It has elements of erraticism due to its young and dynamic yet very structured nature. There is not a single day which is same as any previous day, and that is what maintains the freshness and keeps me going. However, broadly, a regular workday at L’Oréal for me includes co-ordinating with my Business Divisions in order to close their open issues and contracts, advising them on general legal queries from time to time, ensuring compliance and risk mitigation.

     

    What is your take on the debate of Corporate Practice v. Litigation?

    It has always been a big debate amongst young lawyers – Corporate practice vs. Litigation practice? I am from the school of thought which believes that Litigation is where all the groundwork lies. That’s the reason I started my career with a stint at Crawford Bayley, which gave me a sound experience in the field of civil litigation in Mumbai. I reiterate that this route is an effective way of ensuring a very robust foundation and is an important facet of a career in law. Litigation gives you a huge breadth of areas to work on and learn from. You get to research and innovate strategies in varied fields of law.

    That being said, Corporate definitely increases your in-house marketability. In most companies, there’s more need for corporate activities such as securities filings, corporate governance, contract negotiation and management, etc. Moreover, with the growing number of skilled and expert lawyers, companies are more likely to keep their work “in-house” on the corporate side. If you are irresolute about which area you enjoy more, corporate will definitely provide you more careers options but comes with a bit more risk.

    It is always sensible to choose an area of practice that you are passionate about, where “passionate” is the key word.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    I am a decade old lawyer today, and my appetite for learning the novelty and unknown is only increasing. Abide by “Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish” – it will take you a long way.

  • Manisha Karia, Advocate on Record, Supreme Court, on quitting law firm and setting up independent practice

    Manisha Karia graduated from ILS Law School, Pune in 2000. Soon after graduation, she started working as an Associate at Thakker & Thakker, Solicitors & Advocates where she worked for a year. Later she switched to Dua Associates where she worked as a Senior Associate. Thereafter she left her job and started practicing independently before Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court and other appellate forums at New Delhi. She has been practising independently from last nine years.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Work experience at Thakker & Thakker and Dua Associates
    • Co-authoring a chapter in “Electronic Evidence” by LexisNexis, UK
    • Building reputation and clientèle
    • Independent practice and experience of a decade in litigation

     

    You graduated from ILS, Pune in 2000. What was the legal profession like back then? What were your objectives as a law student?

    I always wanted to peruse challenging carrier to have my own identity as professional and at the same time to serve society. My father always aspired me to take up civil services. There were apprehensions and opposition from friends and relatives about a girl taking up law especially when I was to become first generation lawyer. My parents have been a great support for me throughout. I still remember that with great difficulty, I admission in ILS, Pune as that time five years law course was offered by very few colleges.

    My sole objective was to give my best and to do justice to the opportunity and choice I had made. I made library as my second home and worked really hard to overcome language fear as I have studied throughout in my mother tongue till class 10th. In my 2nd year I participated in moot court competition and I was among top 3 that gave me confidence. My professors were encouraging and involved me in research for Hindu Law and Constitutional Law workshops organised by college. That really diverted me from civil service exam preparation and I was more fascinated to peruse law as my law career and took every opportunity coming on my way and in my 3rd year itself. I started attending chamber of a senior advocate, Mr. S.V. Kanitkar in Pune to understand nuances of original side of civil litigation at trial courts. Initially for 6 months after college, I used to attend court, which gave me clarity about original side of litigation, which is still helping me in my practice in Supreme Court.

     

    When you pursued law, not much of an importance was laid upon internships. But the scenario now seems to have been changed. How relevant do you think are internships for a present law student?

    During my student years, we only had one internship in final year. Now almost all law schools give prominence to internship as part of curriculum, which I feel is very vital for every law student. Students have options to work with senior advocates, law firms and individual lawyers, PSUs and NGOs. These opportunities provide students an insight into how each practice of law is different from other and they are better equipped to decide about their career in law profession. Also, internship with the judges of High Court and Supreme Court gives fair idea about decision making processes in the Courts. Today is an era of specialisation. Internships immensely help students to determine whether to pursue corporate or litigation practice either in law firms or with Senior Counsel or individual lawyers and also decide area of specialisation.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was at ILS? When did you actually experience the learning curve? What is your opinion when people say that all that they have learnt is in their years of practice?

    As I said, my learning during five years at ILS still helps me every day. Starting from 1st presentation to participating several competitions and workshops and special courses conducted during student days, prepared me to face the challenges of the legal profession. Our professors are still our mentors and guides of lifetime. They treated us as family and guided throughout. We were always encouraged to participate in moot court competitions and many other opportunities for research and presentations. It all depends on how you make best of the opportunities. The Legal Aid Cell helped us to provide practical advice to litigants in early days of student life. The Mock Trials gave us insight into art of cross-examination and in-depth analysis of Evidence Act in practical way, which has become rare in today’s legal education where the subjects on procedural law are being taught in less than six months.

    I believe practicing law is never ending learning process, the older you grow, the expectations and learning increases. Yes, there is no doubt that you learn a lot when you actually start practicing, but if you take student years seriously, that forms a strong base for your further learning. Five years is a long period to built a foundation which none of the law student should miss as once you enter profession with added responsibility and demanding work, one really doesn’t get time improve or devote time to any special skill. I strongly feel that one can only achieve something by investing time and this profession requires dedication in formative years at law school, which can be best used for development of these skills including research, basics of drafting, presentations, debating etc. If the beginning is right, one gets a different level of confidence and clarity in terms of basic knowledge and skills for this noble profession by the time you actually enter the profession.

     

    How was your work as a corporate lawyer at Dua Associates? Please tell us a little about your work profile while working there. What were the responsibilities you were entrusted with?

    After passing out, being eldest in the family, my siblings were still studying. I wanted share financial responsibility of my father and also gain some law firm experience as I had never experienced firm work culture. Therefore, I joined Thakker & Thakker before even final year results were out. I really learnt a lot starting from how to work long hours (12-16 hours a day) and what is billable and non billable hours, maintaining time sheets and pending work list, drafting of several contracts, FEMA, RBI, SEBI regulations and I got to do my first arbitration and learnt a lot about IPR registrations. I also assisted in two big IPR litigations in Bombay High Court and also got opportunity to do some Tax work.

    Thereafter, I joined Dua Associates, Mumbai office and there again it was branch office of Delhi based firm, so I got to do all kind of work including due diligences, property documents drafting, lots of IPR work (mainly worldwide trade mark and patent registration assignments), attending hearings in Trade Mark Registry and IPR litigation in Bombay High Court along with other corporate commercial litigation. Also I had an opportunity to prepare guidelines/manual for police officers for IPR and information technology law related cases as law was new in India. I was lucky to work in this office and concerned partners had given lot of responsibilities and freedom to work as I was communicating with lawyers / firms from almost 40 countries for trade mark and patent work. I worked in Bombay for about 5 years which were tough years as I used to travel 3 hours every day from New Mumbai to Fort and back, but I really enjoyed work culture and those were foundation years of my life, which really taught me many things in all respect and it was a true struggle as first generation lawyer.

     

    How did you decide to quit your job and start up with your independent practice?

    That’s like a every girl’s story! I got married in 2004 and shifted base to Delhi. I initially worked with Delhi office of Dua Associates for some time. However, I had to take a break for my daughter’s birth and focus on her upbringing. During this period, I contributed and co-authored a chapter on India in book published by LexisNexis, UK on “Electronic Evidence”, which is an authority on the subject. I also started working with my father-in-law, who is a Senior Advocate and Former Judge of Gujarat High Court and started attending Supreme Court on regular basis.

    I considered options of joining back law firms, but to be able to manage both family and career and to strike that right balance, I decided start up my independent practice. One of my friends from Pune referred Special Leave Petition of her sister in which there was issue as regards to interstate transfer of matter from one state to another state by High Court and I got a chance to argue that matter pro bono before Supreme Court where other side was represented by Senior Advocate. I did my best and it was well appreciated by the Hon’ble Judges as well as other seniors present. I became more confident and I knew that when I do what I love and feel passionate about, I will find a way and can handle the family and my profession too. Then, I started taking matters before High Court of Delhi, NCDRC, Company Law Board and other Appellate Tribunals along with the Supreme Court and after having a few years’ experience in the Supreme Court, I decided to appear in Advocate of Record examination. This has been tough experience with multiple responsibilities, but, yes, I had choice to do my own work at own working hours (apart from courts hours) and family was also taken care of. The clients and briefing lawyers have been really supportive and understanding. Today, after years of struggle, I have my own office and am being able to give full time to my practice.

     

    What are your main practice areas? How has been your experience so far?

    As an Advocate of Record in Supreme Court, I handle multidisciplinary practice as one cannot have specific practice area we represent and file every type of matter. I have been handling both civil and criminal Special Leave Petitions, Transfer Petitions and Writ Petitions before the Supreme Court. Off late, I have been doing more of Tax and IPR related matters.

    I have been appearing in Constitutional, Company, Consumer, Property, Service law and Environmental law related matters. My journey as a lady lawyer has been full of ups and downs. Legal profession has been somewhat male dominated, however there a change in past few years. I only know how to put my head down and do my work to the best of my abilities and like to take limited work and do justice to the matters I have taken responsibility of.

     

    As a practising lawyer how did you manage to learn the basics of court room practice? Did you have anyone to guide and mentor you during the initial days of your practice?

    My experience at lower courts during my internship as student gave me real understanding of evidence and procedural aspects and working in a Firm and Bombay High Court really helped me how to handle clients, drafting, preparing for cases and briefing seniors and, yes, I am really blessed to be guided by my father-in-law, who is my mentor and many other seniors who always corrected me and encouraged me. You can really understand court room practice by being vigilant and observant in court rooms and each matter teaches you something new. As young lawyer, in initial days I used to spend lot of time listening to many Senior Advocates arguing in Court during regular hearing days.

    Many things as regards to court room practice, one learns by everyday experience and Supreme Court has wide variety of matters work and has lawyers and clients coming from all over from India. Mastering facts and applicability of law and logical thinking and strategy can really get you through in complicated matters. There is no shortcut and working hard always pays.

     

    How necessary is it to have a mentor/guide to handhold a young lawyer while still in the formative years of the profession? Did you have one?

    It is very important to have able and good guide/senior in formative years as there are so many things which seniors can help you with their vast experience. It is very necessary to work under an ethical senior and proper guidance as many young lawyers hardly work with seniors or organisations and jump into independent practice and find short cuts to earn fast money. In formative years one needs to work on detail, cultivating habit of reading and full research before drafting and arguing new matters. I was always told by seniors to be updated on recent case laws and by reading judgments one can really improve on legal language. I really learnt basics of litigation from Mr. S. V. Kanitkar and Mr. J. V. Thakker and seniors from the Firms I worked with and in Supreme Court my father-in-law made me understand how to go to the root of the matter by marshalling the facts and doing detailed research before drafting or arguing.

     

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice? How difficult would you say it is to build a reputed practice? How many years of hard work does it require to build a firm clientele?

    Being leady with added responsibility of family, small baby it was very difficult to start and continue with independent practice and survive in the profession in Delhi. It was difficult to revive contacts and get back the trust to come back full time in practice. It takes about 6-7 years to set up full-fledged practice and one need lot of patience, consistency and dedication. Many clients don’t want to pay the due fees to junior lawyers and one has to really struggle hard. In initial days of practice I could barely mange to recover even expenses and to save on cost and time I had office cum residence.

     

    Did you build everlasting relation with your clients? Please share some of your secret tips on how to boost fiduciary relations with the people we serve?

    Yes, many of my clients and briefing lawyers are old contacts and relations which were developed while working in Mumbai and references from others states. Clients are always result oriented. You may not always get good case, but it depends on how you present it before the Court. If you show your performance by trying your best, many times efforts are well appreciated irrespective of result. I believe in giving clear idea to the clients about favourable and against points in their case and reasonable chance success/failure in the matter before filing any case. Many times this is really helpful and they come back with more work even if the result was not favourable in one of their matters. I have even refused client to file SLP where I felt there was no point when they were advised by others to file the matter. I strongly believe that one has to be honest and sincere to the client. Also being proactive to call or email to keep client updated before they call and to answer queries promptly at any time helps to develop good relations and builds confidence with clients.

     

    The Bar Council of India has recently come out with new Certificate of Practice and Renewal Rules, 2014. What is your take on this?

    I see the logic and I am sure it is in the interest of young lawyers joining the profession. According to me, basic knowledge and experience of trial court and high court is necessary before starting practice in Supreme Court as that gives better understanding, perspective and ability to conduct cases in efficient and better manner.

     

    How is the work atmosphere at the Supreme Court presently? Do you think it has become more difficult for a fresher to be successful compared to a decade earlier? What would you advise a fresh graduate as he enters the world of litigation today?

    In the Supreme Court has lawyers and judges coming from all over India and one gets to see diversity and different level of performance, which makes it a very challenging atmosphere. The numbers of lawyers have really increased in past few years and at the same time elevation of eminent practicing lawyers as judges of Supreme Court has really helped in changing the scene. Numbers of designation of AORs as Senior Advocates by Supreme Court and number of practicing lady lawyers and Senior Advocates have also increased. Many Judges are very accommodative and encourage junior lawyers and AORs to argue matters. My advice to the fresh graduate who enters in litigation is to choose good senior or law firm where you will get variety of work to do, improve your drafting as much as you can in initial years, clear your doubts by discussing with seniors, spend maximum time attending court hearing and read judgements on daily basis and research work without entirely relying on online resources. One should never appear in Court without knowing or reading the brief.

     

    Indian criminal law is, to a large extent, influenced by its British counterpart. Do you think if Indians would have framed our Penal Code, it would have been better?

    Although Indian Penal Code was drafted more than 150 years before it is still effective. Indian laws and entire legal system is largely influenced by English legal system and I do not see that it would have been better if we would have drafted it as over last so many years, we have made several amendments to all archaic laws to meet the changes in society and technology.

     

    When you hire interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? What should an intern do to get noticed in a positive way?

    I prefer interns who are eager to learn and ready to do any legal work assigned with dedication and without any hesitation. As fresher, one would not know how to go about case, but they should ask relevant questions and understand from seniors the subject matter and scope work and research required. To be noticed in positive manner, reading the brief before conferences and hearings and doing detailed research and preparing note on matter in paramount.

     

    In the last ten years you must have seen the change in litigation field. What would you say about this?

    The litigation field has considerably changed. With e-filing and use of technology, the processes have become easier and faster. It saves time and costs for litigants. Litigation is also becoming very expensive for quality of legal advice. Backlog of cases is increasing every year. With elevation of many eminent lawyers as Judges of Supreme Court and High Courts, the things are really improving. Hopefully, we would see major changes by reducing delays in justice delivery system and making the best legal advice affordable for everyone in coming years.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to litigate just after graduation?

    In the end, I would like to covey to students to make use of their student years to the maximum, develop writing and speaking skills, do as many internship and participate in moot court competitions. It would really help one develops skills of doing right research and work hard in early days of practice. I wish all students a very best luck in their legal pursuits.

  • Shriya Maini on choosing Oxford over Cambridge, Scholarships and the role of higher studies in Litigation

    Shriya Maini on choosing Oxford over Cambridge, Scholarships and the role of higher studies in Litigation

    Shriya Maini graduated first in class from Gujarat National Law University, Gandhinagar in 2013 with four gold medals, including that of Best Student. Thereafter, she joined the Litigation department of Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff, New Delhi as an Associate in their Dispute Resolution Team. After working there for a few months, she paid heed to her calling and is pursuing the Bachelor of Civil Law Programme from Oxford on a full scholarship. In this interview, she talks about the difference in pedagogy between Indian and Foreign institutes and the relevancy of a traditional BCL degree for litigation practice.

    We took this opportunity to ask her about:

    • Experience working in the litigation department of Amarchand & Mangaldas
    • Importance of Internships
    • Choosing BCL from Oxford over LL.M from Cambridge
    • Writing a proper SOP for an LL.M
    • Applying for different types of Scholarships for high studies

     

    Tell us a bit about yourself. What motivated you to choose law for a career?

    If I were to answer this question absolutely honestly, I never really wanted to study law. Though, in retrospect, my family lineage reveals a close legal association (my grandfather retired from the Indian Home Ministry and my father is a practising lawyer), I don’t think I was ever motivated to make a career out of law as such. I was busy exploring the scientific world and was rather intrigued by it. I faired well in my A Levels and decided to follow my mother’s footsteps and pursue a career in medicine. Little did I know that future had something else in store for me! Over one of the many dinner table conversations, my grandfather casually mentioned how a centralized national level entrance examination called CLAT was being organized for the very first time for direct admissions to law school. I did not even know of the existence of National Law Universities until then and was reading their names for the first time on the examination brochure. To me this seemed very alluring, as a back up option, in the event that I failed my pre-medical tests. Besides, the examination (fortunately) had no negative marking. A week later, I was walked out of the hall, immensely proud of the fact that I had attempted every question on board, correct or not. Once the results came out, GNLU fell into my lap. I suppose I got lucky with my guesswork! Being a devoted daddy’s girl, I decided not to walk out on him, packed my bags and took the plunge. Hence, law happened purely by chance and not choice.

     

    How did you plan your internships? Were they all meticulously planned or did they just happen to you as you went through law school? Any tips you would like to share with people who want to intern at top-notch firms?

    As my vita indicates, I didn’t have a strict ‘to-be followed’ normative pattern of internships. However, I consistently endeavoured to intern at each and every place that I possibly could, be it chambers or law firms. I was sure that wherever I interned, I would substantially gain technical proficiency for my knowledge and experience, both were limited. In effect, I knew I had nothing to lose. Hence, on one hand, I thoroughly explored the corridors of the Supreme Court and Delhi High Court and on the other, I vacationed every year with commercial law firms, such as Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff, Dua Associates and Jyoti Sagar Associates. Such a wide-range of internship opportunities helped me understand the everyday working and nuances of laws, be it civil, criminal or commercial.

    In the penultimate year of law school, I realized that my calling was only in Court. I was drawn towards litigation and the internships most definitely, opened me to a whole new world. I interned twice in the litigation team of Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff, New Delhi under the guidance and supervision of Mr. V.P.Singh, one of the most dynamic partners of the firm. I had a fantastic experience interning with him. He had a galaxy of juniors assisting him who made the experience even more worthwhile.

    Likewise, by the end of third year, I advise all law students to have a fair idea of what they want to do. I believe the last two years are very crucial when it comes to painting career silhouettes, the so called deal makers or breakers. Hence, I strongly advise that if you haven’t already had some form of internship exposure, now is the time to get that on your CV. It would be a good idea to split the law school tenure of five years into a 3+2 structure and avidly apply for varied internship openings until the third year. Explore what you enjoy, much like the hit and trial method. I would also advise all law students to acquaint themselves with the backgrounds of firms, judges, lawyers and wherever they are making Internship applications, so that they can make an informed choice about joining them. The importance of a tailored CV cannot and must not be underestimated at any cost. I would also caution that the fourth and fifth year, being most important could be channelized towards improving one’s CGPA as much as possible. I can now affirm that though top-notch firms do not solely and specifically look for a high GPA, but it makes for a fine impression if your CGPA is more than respectable. It gives you that ‘added-edge’.

     

    Right after graduation you got to join the Litigation team of AMSS. How did the appointment take place?

    I secured a job with AMSS all thanks to GNLU’s Committee on Recruitment Affairs (CRA). As a core college body, CRA annually facilitates students and recruiters, on a rolling basis for on as well as off campus recruitments. I was one of the few lucky ones to grab an internship with the Litigation Team of AMSS, in my penultimate year of graduation. The selection was purely based on class rank. I vacationed once again during the winters and six months later, on the College’s zero day, I was offered a job in their Dispute Resolution Team (Litigation and Arbitration).

     

    What all came under your responsibility at AMSS? How was your first visit to court?

    I was rather lucky to work with some of the most hardworking people in the litigation practice at AMSS. My area of work encompassed commercial litigation and arbitration. Within the team, our supervising partner had allotted a couple of matters to each one of us. I was given an opportunity to work on an international commercial arbitration at a very early stage in my career. I worked under the leadership of some of the best people in the fraternity and handled these matters from scuff. I also drafted the first cuts of Rejoinders for a matter. On a lighter note, if I could pick one responsibility that truly came my way at AMSS, it was drafting e-mails. I learnt the significant skill of ‘written communication’, its necessity and nuances. Though challenging and interesting, these months made me actively re-think my options and pursuits. While I spent hours drafting legal documents and e-mails before a bare computer screen, some part of me began to miss the ambience and actual working of a Courtroom.

     

    Is it true that it is not possible to get a job in a top tier law firm without top grades and being in the top of the class?

    I am often asked this question. Being brutally honest, top tier law firms often filter students on the basis of class ranks and/or scores. Good grades most definitely matter, at least while securing internships. Unless you are offered a PPO based on your performance during an internship, even during recruitment, most top law firms are bound to take grades most seriously. This is purely due to the fact that a high CGPA depicts an academically consistent upward moving graph. However, I believe that moots and publications could also be an equally essential pointer when it comes to specialized interests. By this I mean that for a law student specifically interested in International Taxation, a paper publication or mooting experience at Nani Palkhiwala could silently speak volumes during a recruitment interview.

     

    What prompted you to decide to leave the largest law firm and venture out at as a sole practitioner?

    It was the same year, infact within a span of five months that I decided to leave AMSS and venture into entrepreneurial practice. Amidst sleepless nights and long office hours, I was at crossroads with my passion for ‘learning and living the law’. I would often feel academically stagnated while making document summaries, indexing compilations or drafting e-mails. One of those mundane Monday mornings when I had to report to the office at 8, I turned the wheel to reach Court instead. Yes, I admit that it was rather drastic and bold a call to take at such an early point of my age and career. Friends and family tried convincing me otherwise cautioning how hard-hitting litigation practice could be.

    Had it not been for the latter half of the year when I practised at the Supreme Court and Delhi High Court, I would not have been able to secure a scholarship for the BCL at Oxford. Hence, I firmly believe if you are true to your work, you shall most definitely reap its results, if not today then tomorrow.

     

    Would you say being from a family of lawyers helped you in forming your practice? How did you find your mentor? How important is a mentor in the field of litigation?

    After a brief stint at AMSS, I devoted the next 7 months to independent legal practice. It would be wrong for me to shy away from admitting that my father was the sole reason I could pivot my practice from the position at which I had left AMSS. I was fortunate to land a few cases, which were handed over to me by my father. They were a mixed bag of both, civil and criminal. He gave me a tiny working chair in the chamber apart from full freedom to not only strategize, draft and file matters but also argue them. Before I knew it, I was running a mini-office with 4-5 odd matters.

    So, I didn’t have to find a mentor! He was right there, my father. I think it is very important to have a mentor who would guide you through the myriad experiences of life, especially when we make the strategic shift from law school to the real world of practice, which can be very demanding. The two stages are immensely different and challenging in more ways than one. Law school demands academic mentoring where a guide’s role may be limited to ensuring his student performs well and steers on the right path of intelligible growth. However, at the professional level, especially in the field of litigation which is plagued with cut throat competition, it is rather difficult to perform without a mentor. My father would discuss each and every line of a case with me and always shadow me in Court, even if I was the one arguing. To him, the sole rules of survival in litigation practice were to consistently work hard, be true to your profession and never turn a client back. I hope the same would benefit some of you law students as well.

     

    Which universities did you apply for LL.M? How did you go about choosing which college to go to for your LL.M.? Did you ever consider Indian colleges for LL.M. now that they are also offering one-year course?

    When I began to practice, I realized that to deal with the complexity of legal and social issues, a mere Bachelors degree would not suffice. For law to evolve, it had to be understood and reasoned, not imitated and blindly followed. I decided to pursue my intellectual drive and made applications to three U.K. law Universities, including Oxford and Cambridge. I specifically did not apply to any of the U.S. law colleges for I was determined to stick to a common law background. It is ironical that now I read a lot of American case-laws, in particular contrasting the civil law approaches as opposed to the common law ones. Within the U.K., my most obvious choice was the Ox-bridge duo.

    Though I didn’t personally consider an Indian LL.M, I am sure it has much to offer. However, from my limited experience of studying my undergraduate degree at an Indian law school, I firmly believe that in terms of teaching methodology and content, we still have a long way to go. I understand that cost could be a pinching factor, but an international exposure with the most intelligent minds of the world is totally worth it.

     

    How did you plan your SoP? Please share your SoP with us. Please share some tips for a successful application.

    I’d like to first answer the second limb of the question. There is no set recipe of making a successful LL.M Application. A good idea could be to first zero down on a country and then pick colleges accordingly, depending upon your subject interest and of course, University reputation. You could easily find U.K. University ratings on weblinks such as http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2014/law-legal-studies.

    These could be indeed helpful to begin with. Another piece of advice would be to filter about 5 Universities and make Applications to only those. On a personal note, I spoke to a lot of people, discussing and debating at length how the BCL was different from a conventional LL.M. Hence, I believe interacting with seniors could most definitely be an enlightening experience to help you choose a college.

    Coming to first part of the question now, an SoP should exactly be structured on the lines of the questions you have put forth in this interview. To elucidate, an SoP must explain why you’re applying to a particular University and not any other on the list. Akin matrimonial ads, SoPs in effect are intended to sell oneself in more ways than one, preferably subtle. A good head start could be to divide the SoP into three paragraphs, the first being a general introduction about who you are, where you’re coming from and what you do. The second could be about what you want to do in the future, perhaps stating a subject focus. I also suggest you add a personal touch to an SoP and include a life story or specific incident reasoning how the same prompted you to take up higher studies. For instance, there are a couple of people I know who wanted to specialize in Medical Law and Ethics and they applied to Oxford, describing at length in their SoP a heart wrenching medical story of losing a loved one.

    Another important thing to keep in mind is tailoring the SoP to suit each college. For instance, Oxford SoP must not run beyond two pages. So, an SoP for LSE or Cambridge could be fairly descriptive and detailed, but an Oxford SoP must be very crisp and coherent. You could end your SoP with a paragraph about how you could contribute as an Asian lawyer in the room.

    And yes, I would be more than willing to share my SoP with you all.

    Click here to download the Statement of Purpose

     

    You had decided to pursue BCL from Oxford University over Cambridge. Any specific reasons for that? How relevant would be a traditional BCL degree for your litigation practice?

    Yes, I was fortunate to have been admitted to both, the BCL (Bachelor of Civil Law) at Oxford and LL.M (Masters in Law) at Cambridge. After thorough deliberation and critical evaluation, I decided to pick the BCL over the Cambridge LL.M. Knowing that it is one of the most rigorous taught Masters in the world, I decided to challenge myself yet again. While the Cambridge LL.M is often picked by those interested in International Law or specifically Corporate Law, the Oxford BCL is definitely more litigation oriented. Hence, I naturally picked the BCL. There is another slightly less known course called the MLF (Masters in Law and Finance) which is jointly taught by the School of Business and Law at Oxford and those of you who are keen in a commerce background could definitely have a look at that.

    Another reason why I chose the BCL was the unique teaching method of Tutorials. Every term (we have trimesters at Oxford), our tutor discusses the erstwhile seminars and lectures with each and every student, in person, in effect clarifying and revising the course content. Students are given a list of questions prior to every tutorial, of which they must attempt one in writing and submit to their tutor a day before the personal session. Such an exercise is immensely helpful for students are well prepared to answer questions well in advance of the examinations. The tutorial system of teaching is unique to Oxford and hence, I would advertise the BCL even more strongly.

    I would be better equipped to answer the second question a year later. However, from hearsay sources and personal interaction with ex-BCL graduates, I can assure you all that the degree most definitely gives you a cutting edge, in terms of legal knowledge and presentation. It pushes you to think out of the box and to some extent challenge the existing laws, aimed at the formulation of ground-breaking legal arguments. Hence, the precedent based litigation practice in India could benefit multi-folds from a holistic and global degree, such as the BCL.

     

    shriya-maini-2

    What should one do differently in college if he wants to pursue higher studies after graduation? Would you suggest having a brief work experience before applying for LL.M?

    There is nothing particularly different that one must do as a prospective Masters student. However, in order to get a Scholarship/funding, it is essential that students keep the following in mind. Apart from consistently studying hard and smart for five years, maintaining high CGPAs and participating in a few moots or ensuring a couple of publications, one should apply well in advance if he or she intends to pursue higher studies. Applications open a year prior to admissions and in the U.K. Universities List, Cambridge is the first deadline to be met. Next is Oxford and then the others.

    Each Application has a scholarship column which all Applicants must tick in the affirmative. These ensure that wherever possible, University/college funding would automatically consider the Applicant’s request for scholarship or fees waiver. I was fortunate to have received the Dr Mrs Ambriti Salve Scholarship 2014-15 and the Bodh Raj Sawhny Memorial Trust Scholarship 2014-15 from the University of Oxford, Exeter College and hence, my studies are fully funded. In a nutshell, I would advice all law students to try and procure scholarships, researching well in advance the criteria for each, be it Inlaks, Aga Khan or the Commonwealth and accordingly, tailor your CV during law school.

    I personally believe a year’s work experience was the sole reason for me having made the cut for the Salve Scholarship. I definitely feel more confident, relaxed and sure of myself than I was when I stepped fresh out of law school. The whole Oxford experience could rather be very overwhelming and emotionally take a toll on someone who, fresh out of law school has not ventured into the real world so to say.

     

    Please tell us about how you applied to these abovementioned scholarships and ultimately got selected for them. What according to you is a good profile for scholarships like these?

    I was fortunate to have received the Dr. Mrs. Ambriti Salve Scholarship and Bodh Raj Sawhny Memorial Trust scholarship for the academic year 2014-15. Following a generous gift made by Mr Harish Salve, a Friend of Exeter College, University of Oxford, the scholarship is awarded each year on the basis of academic excellence to an Indian student reading for the BCL. The Salve Scholarship fully funds my tuition fees, besides granting me a cover for my living expenses.

    No, I did not make any separate Applications for the abovementioned scholarships. In fact, both of them are College linked, i.e. awarded by the Exeter College, University of Oxford. For such scholarships, you just have to tick the relevant box (affirming you want any and all type of funding available at Oxford) within the main Application that you make for the BCL. However, it would be a good idea to browse through the College websites and have a look at specific scholarships, course wise. These could require a separate application or additional documents. For instance, a useful link where you all could start from would be the official webpage of Oxford enumerating the funding options available –

    http://www.law.ox.ac.uk/postgraduate/scholarships.php.

    There is also a similar provision on the Cambridge GRADSAF for Commonwealth and Gates Scholarships, which you must apply for. No separate Application (only another SoP) is required for the same.

    The other kinds of scholarships are the ones offered by Indian organizations and donor trusts, such as Aga Khan, Narotam Sekhsaria etc. These are also worth applying for but require separate Applications to be made once you have received your offer of admission. Hence, call for such scholarships are usually doled out after March end.

    I guess I was lucky and blessed to have received such a mammoth funding award. I cannot pin point and say how the selection process exactly works but I could share with you some indicators, which could be of help.

    Firstly, it is necessary to have good grades and by this I mean, try and maintain a class rank within the first three of your batch. Secondly, it would be a good idea to pursue extra-circulars such as moots and publications in college. These look very attractive on a scholarship profile. I would also suggest that if the scholarship Application requires a write-up, play up your ‘need’ for funds factor.

    Lastly, you must be able to demonstrate why you wish to undertake studies in a particular subject specific to a College/University. I think preparing answers to these questions would be more than sufficient to organically create a decent scholarship profile.

     

    Given a chance to turn back the clock would you have done anything differently from what you’ve done?

    No doubt, I have taken some rather risky decisions to pursue what I truly believed in and felt was right for me then. However, I am very satisfied with each of those and stand by them even today. Having tasted the flavours of the commercial world, I am now actively involved in academia, living the law much closer than I could ever imagine. I am thoroughly enjoying and doing what I best like to – ‘studying’. Hence, even if I was given a hundred chances to turn the clock back and do things differently, I’d never do so.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who is yet to decide his/her career?

    My only message to a law student who is at the brink of deciding his/her career would be to have the courage to follow your heart and grit to pull off your plan once you decide to do something different. Just because one of the paths at the crossroad appears financially alluring, it could prove to be rather professionally unpleasant. With age on your side, give yourself a complete gamut of experiences that a lawyer could have without regretting a single decision whatsoever.

     

    Photo Credits: Pratibimb

  • Khushi Pandya, PhD Scholar, University of Westminster, on higher studies, SoPs and Practice at Gujarat HC

    Khushi Pandya is a currently a Doctoral Researcher at University of Westminster. She is an alumnus of Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda. She pursued her LL.M in International Commercial Law from University of Westminster. She was a practising advocate before the Gujarat High Court. She has also served as a Grievance Redressal & Legal Consultant at Woman & Child Development Department, Government of Gujarat.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • LL.M and Ph.D from the University of Westminster
    • Tips on SOPs, Recommendation Letters and publications
    • Practising at the High Court of Gujarat
    • Working as a Legal Consultant in a Government Department

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    Hello! I am Khushi Pandya, currently a Doctoral Researcher at University of Westminster, London. I am a proud alumnus of Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda, India from where I read my law degree – B.A. LL.B.  I have done my LLM in International Commercial Law from University of Westminster, London in 2011-2012. I was a practising advocate before the Gujarat High Court, State Legal Consultant with Government of Gujarat and a proud volunteer engaged with Mahiti Adhikari Gujarat Pahel. I hold an ordinary and average kind of student profile. I belong to Ahmedabad, Gujarat and have completed my schooling in the vernacular.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Tell us about your college life at  Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda. What activities did you partake in?

    Well, my inclination to pursue law developed as early as Class 10. My father is a journalist based in Ahmedabad and was extensively engaged from 1996 to 2005 covering various feature stories involving human rights issues or rather, I would say, stories which outline the common man’s struggle for getting what they are entitled to under the laws of our country. Hence, from the age of 8-9, consciously or sub-consciously I too, was associated with the thoughts and stories he used to share with his fellow colleagues and it gradually developed my interest in the subject. My father’s profession indirectly provided me a platform to understand that in reality, the struggle for rights has somehow become a part of an ordinary man’s life. By the time I reached Class 9 or 10, I very well understood that law is the mechanism which helps people to redress their grievances against many odds.  I completed my schooling in 2005 and chose MSU to pursue five years integrated law course – B.A. LL.B. I was in the first batch of integrated law course- B.A. LL.B at Baroda School of Legal Studies, Faculty of Law, The M. S. University of Baroda and it had all the factors you come across by being the first batch of any Course and that was mostly related to infrastructure and scarcity thereof. But renowned and experienced faculty members played very a important role during this time to nurture students’ knowledge and perspective as budding lawyers. Having renowned mentors help you a lot in getting insight of practical aspects of law. Faculty of Law, MSU gave many Justices in various High Court and Supreme Court, Advocate General, Government Pleaders, Senior Advocates and it has helped us extensively.

    At the same time, one should remember that MSU is the only residential University of Gujarat and it has its positive aspects. Like any college student, I have enjoyed a lot for five years. As one of my favourite writers C.K. Bakshi has rightly said that, “You learn more from outside of class than from within four walls of a classroom.” MSU provided me many opportunities to explore and expand my vision – be it extensive and intense election process, weeklong Youth Festival or cosmopolitan environment.

    As far as academic activities are concerned, I was ordinarily involved with studies throughout five years. During the first year of study, I was kind of an obedient student but in the following years I have bunked many classes and have spent time in the canteen discussing various developments in legal and political field. I have always scored well in semester examinations without any ATKT. I was overall a good student. Apart from day to day studies I have participated in various Legal Research and Writing Competitions/Seminars/Workshops – both in English and Gujarati language and have performed well too.

    As far as extra-curricular activities are concerned – I have extensively participated in various activities during Youth Festivals like –story and poetry writing competitions, debate or poetry recitation. I topped in Story and Poetry Writing Competition for two consecutive academic years.

    By and large those five years at BSLS, MSU were extra-ordinary in every sphere – it gave me a lawyer’s perspective by observing all facets of University life.

     

     What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Ever since I decided to take up law as a career, my entire consideration was towards issues which affect human life. Hence, during my college days my area of interest remained more towards Human Rights or instead should I say my inclination was towards Human Rights based approach. I was associated with a voluntary group which runs a legal aid clinic and focuses on legal awareness. Stories from people who came to attend such programmes are much more interesting and a kind of reality-check. Expertise come with years of practise but the various internships I undertook have definitely helped me to develop my perspective. Talking with seniors/fellow colleagues/clients, attending office helps you to gain knowledge and practical aspects of legal procedures  and that’s how you understand things. For practising law you need to understand practical aspects more; of course, books do help you but you need to understand what is termed by practising advocates as “Court Craft”.

     

    After graduation, you started practicing before the Gujarat High Court. What kind of difficulties did you face during that period? How did you overcome them? How would you describe your experience as?

    After graduation, I joined the Chambers of Dr. Mukul Sinha at High Court of Gujarat in May 2010 and trained until August 2011. I would say the experience was simply the best in each aspect – the kind of comfort and freedom you get as a fresher, I was made part of all kinds of discussions, I was allowed to participate in all court matters, I had access to all infrastructures and I learnt a lot. The reason behind mentioning all these is that ‘law firm culture’ is not yet developed in Ahmedabad and there are very few juniors – esspecially anyone without a background in the legal profession who get such freedom and liberty and comfort to work with Senior Advocates.

    My experience as a junior member at the Bar was fair enough. I was exposed to a variety of matters in this short span like – matters pertaining to service law, contempt law, furlough applications, constitutional matters and few other matters involving civil rights of people against politically motivated actions.

     

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    What made you pursue your LL.M from University of Westminster, London?  How would you describe your experience as? Tell us about the course structure and specialization of Master of Laws at University of Westminster?

    After working at Gujarat High Court I felt that exposure in foreign country to pursue Masters Degree in Law would be worth it. At the root of making the decision to pursue LL.M from abroad was just to get exposure – both professionally and personally. Also, the idea of going back to the classroom is always fascinating one. I made a decision in May 2011 that I want to study further and started searching for Universities and short listed a few Universities in UK. I got offers from Queen Mary, Nottingham, Durham, Birmingham and Westminster. I was awarded the Taught LL.M Scholarships 2011-12 – a fee waiver scholarship at University of Birmingham. But somehow I finalised University of Westminster to pursue my LL.M.

    The prime reason behind choosing UoW was faculty members – Dr Reza Banekar, Richard Earle, Adam Samuel, Dr Aurora Voiculescu, Simon Newman, John Flood, Joseph Tanega and many more. All of them are oceans of knowledge and I was lucky to have mentors like them. Classroom discussions and lectures were interactive in nature and it helped me a lot in developing a skill to speak up my mind and raising my views to a larger audience.

    LL.M Course at UoW is divided into  7 modules – two compulsory modules and they were : Foundations of International Commercial Law and Dissertation; five  optional modules and I took up : International Commercial Litigation, International Commercial Arbitration, Comparative Commercial Arbitration, Corporate Social Responsibility, Business and Law and Research Methodology. The course is of 180 credits – 6 modules comprising of 20 credits each and dissertation module comprising 60 credits.

    The assessment method is totally different from the one we have in LL.M courses in India. Assessment of one module is divided in two or three parts – open book class room exam, research essay, assignment to finish from morning to afternoon and problem solving questions.  Further, Masters Degree in Law from UoW requires its students to answer their questions within a specific word limit and it nurtures your habit to frame your arguments in a most precise manner. Gradually it developed the skill to reach your audience in few words.

    One of the other reasons behind choosing Westminster was that it is situated in the heart of London – just a minute walk from Oxford Circus tube Station!.

    Most fascinating and important part about studying at UoW was its library service and kind of resources you get for your research – it was simply the best.

     

    What are the key ingredients of a well written SOP? Can you make it personal? Any tip to those making their SOPs? What might be the one mistake that the majority make?

    Well, there is no strict formula to write an SOP. It varies from  need to need and as far as SOP for a course in a University abroad is concerned, they provide you a frame within which you have to explain yourself and that is too general and simple. My personal belief is that a well written SOP should be free of any jargon. When any organisation asks you to write a Statement of Purpose, it has to be your statement behind your inclination to take up something and your objective behind the same can be anything – personal reason, fascination, or just like that. A well written SOP, as per my opinion, can include reason to join a specific course – personal reason or any professional mileage you may get after completing that course. My suggestion rather than a tip to those making their SOPs is: write your SOP at your own, don’t copy from others’ SOP and most importantly – your consultant for higher education abroad is not supposed to write your SOP, it’s you who has to write it and penning down your mind might take up a day or two, but at the end it will exactly reflect your mind and would be far better from a stereotypical SOP written by your Consultant. I would certainly say that majority of students who consult Foreign Education Advisors leave it up to them to write one. Please don’t do so.

    Writing an SOP for applying for a scholarship/studentship equally requires you to pen down your need to seek financial assistance. When the SOP is for a scholarship, don’t embark solely on your achievements or need. All you can do is, collaborate your achievements, need and the benefit you are going to get after completion of the course.

    As far as writing down your thoughts is concerned, to sum up I would quote Friedrich Nietzsche that, “Style ought to prove that one believes in an idea; not only that one thinks it but also feels it.”

    I believe writing down your thoughts and perspective will definitely make a good SOP and  it has certainly helped me to get the Law Research Studentship Award to pursue Ph.D at UoW.

     

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    Do you think that having your recommendation letters written from distant acquaintances with influential position may backfire against you while making your application? What is the proper thing to do instead?

    My opinion is that all you need is a Recommendation Letter and it can be from anyone who knows you well – professionally or academically. Majority of institutes ask for recommendation letters from the last academic institute you have attended and in some cases they allow to have a recommendation letter from your employer. Recommendation letters are to support your application to an institute and the institute does not decide on your application solely on the basis of the recommendation letter – they do look at your grades, SOP, whether you meet  other criteria or not,  etc.

     

    You have publications in various renowned journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published? Please share somehighlights of your best work.

    The first legal research paper I wrote was for a seminar organised by Bhavnagar University and that was in Gujarati language, discussing violence against women coming from culturally nomadic tribes. An important point to keep in mind is – writing what appeals to you is necessary – it may be purely legal, socio-legal, a novel, a story or a poem. It is said that practice does make you perfect and being in a legal profession, the habit of writing at regular intervals help you a lot. Nowadays we are in the era of social media – everything is virtual and so is your presence! As a Doctoral Researcher, during my interactions with many renowned Professors across the world, they have repeatedly advised that writing is the most important element for this profession. Publication indeed is an important factor because what you write or analyse must reach others and that’s how it is channelized across the wider community and that’s what academia actually means.

    I am in the process of producing my best work. But issues on which I have written include – Right to Potable Water in this era, Muslim Personal Law with special reference to Fatwa, scientific methods used in criminal investigation and its impact, right to information, unification of arbitration law, investor-state dispute mechanism under investment treaty regime, interface between human rights law and Bilateral Investment Treaty regime, to name a few. Currently along with my Ph.D research work, I am engaged with the  task of codifying various Government of Gujarat Resolutions along with relevant parts of Land Revenue Code pertaining to agricultural land and associated rights of farmers. I am genuinely looking forward to the outcome of this project and believe that it will be very helpful to farmers in understanding their rights and will bring awareness.

     

    How did publishing affect your legal career? Apart from academia, does it help one to secure jobs at all?

    I would say it boosts your confidence when you see your thoughts or work published in any peer-reviewed journal, newspaper or magazine. If you want to pursue career in teaching, having good publishing record will definitely play an important role and that is one of the University Grant Commission’s requirements too. My opinion is that solely a good publication record really does not help one to secure a job but along with that you are required to meet particular job criteria. If you are looking for a core litigation work area where you would  attend courts and meet clients on weekends or in the evenings, your senior might not be even bothered whether you have any publishing record or not. But I am told that when you are willing to secure a job in top tier law firms, publications during your academic years might be of important consideration.

     

    How do you identify and decide on a topic or area of law to write on? What is the process like? What are the top three things you consider as sine qua non for great research work?

    During the initial years, topic or area which appeals to you in some way or the other, you write about it. There is no strict formula or process. You choose a topic and start writing. A good point about participating in legal research paper writing competitions is you are given a specific area to write about and it makes the task easy. I believe that finding a topic to write is bit difficult and most of the time  lapses in thinking about the topic only.

    Three things as sine qua non for good research work are:

    • Interest in the topic – and be clear about three things – what you want to research on, why you want to research and how you want to research?
    • If you are involved with serious kind of research (M.Phil/Ph.D/Post-Doc kind of research) – please be aware of all developments taking place in your research subject, know all big shots involved in this research area and do in-depth reading.
    • Time-table and discipline – be clear about the time frame within which you want to finish your research work because as a human being you may procrastinate and it delays the process. So many developments are taking place and it may happen that what you are dealing with has already been dealt with by many other people just because you didn’t follow your time frame. You need to follow a military discipline at times.

    I used to serve as a Volunteer for Mahiti Adhikar Gujarat Pahel, Ahmedabad from March 2013 until I came to UK, for free Legal Aid Clinic where a number of people across Gujarat come to seek advice about various legal issues they are facing. Many a time, stories from general people help you to find a topic to write an article on. You can very well co-relate the social issues they are facing and the law/rules pertaining to the same and research further and shape it as an article.

    It is not always necessary to get it published in a journal or news paper or magazine. You can put it on your blog and seek a wider audience.

     

    At present, you are a Doctoral Candidate at University of Westminster. What motivated you to pursue a Ph.D.?

    Ever since I took up my LL.M dissertation, I have thought of taking it further to Doctorate research. My interest in the subject was the prime motivation to pursue a Ph.D. Along with that, encouragement and support provided by my Director of Studies who was my LL.M dissertation supervisor too, my professors, my parents and friends motivated me to take up this research project. Since my teenage years I had vaguely dreamt of pursuing a Ph.D before I turn 30; so that factor has also played a role in enrolling for a Doctorate Programme.

    It is not about studying too much. It is unlike a typical study or course and in fact, it is a kind of work i.e. research and writing which you like and that’s how you go further into it. It is a process of evolving during years of your doctorate studies – both personally and professionally. But there is some inner force which keeps on motivating you to take the process further and further. That’s all.

     

    Prior to pursuing a Ph.D , you’ve also worked as Grievance Redressal & Legal Consultant at Woman & Child Development Department, Government of Gujarat. Please tell us about it.

    Yes, I was a Grievance Redressal & Legal Consultant at Women & Child Development, GoG. A walk-in interview was scheduled for the appointment where all candidates had to undergo a written test and if short listed; had to face an interview. As many as 55-58 candidates appeared for the written test and 8 were shortlisted for interview and I was one of them.  Five panellists were there – Principal Secretary, WCD; Director, ICDS and three other top officers of WCD and the interview lasted for 7-8 minutes. They asked a  few general questions about my alma-mater MSU, laws pertaining to prohibiting sexual violence against women, drafting skills and my course at UoW. It was a kind of formal talk after waiting for 7.5 hours at WCD Office at Gandhinagar.

    Being a State Consultant there were many tasks to deal with. My main task was to handle all litigation before High Court and Supreme Court, preparing affidavits in reply, co-ordination with Government Pleaders. Majority of cases were Public Interest Litigation, service law matters and commercial matters arising out of tender process. Apart from that contract vetting was one of  my tasks.

     

    Please tell our readers about the environment of a Government department. How do the daily activities take place?

    Working with a Government Department is a different experience altogether. Important tasks include preparing affidavits in reply, monitoring all Court matters, instructing District Offices about matters pending before District Courts, briefing  higher authorities about any important developments, conferences with GP/AAG/AGP.

    In a Government Department, everything goes on file and you will hear people saying “file chalana padega iske liye”. The working environment is typical and in your initial days it annoys you too. The working style is completely different from the one you have in Chambers or Law Firm.   You keep on searching for a particular file and still couldn’t find because the person who initiated that file was transferred to some other department and the new one would say he actually doesn’t know about this issue because it’s a new subject for him/her. But gradually you learn to handle such situations and get the work done. But at the same time working with top officers of the State is also a learning opportunity.

    I was the only legal consultant in the Department managing all sorts of legal issues and had many responsibilities to deal with. Normal days were packed with work and handling various matters and attending Court. Overall it was a nice experience.

     

    What is your Ph.D research topic.? What was your motivation behind the selection of that topic?

    My thesis deals with the interface between the Bilateral Investment Treaty regime and International Human Rights Law. I show the conflict seen between two regimes of law- Investment law and Human Rights Law and it aims to study the need to balance investor protection vis-a-vis human rights obligations of the state and sovereignty of the state under Investment Treaty regime.

     

    What plans do you have once you finish your Doctoral Research? What do you plan to accomplish in the coming five years?

    I will be looking forward to teaching. But my long term goal is to get actively involved in spreading right based legal awareness in India.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students interested in going for higher studies from India?

    If you have a dream or are willing to pursue higher studies in foreign country, you should absolutely go for it. But at the same time it must be kept in mind that higher studies in foreign country might not guarantee a dream job at the first instance when you return to India simply because you hold foreign LL.M Degree and that’s why your  purpose has to be to explore a new world- academically and personally rather than solely aiming at job employability; and  a commitment to your own self to excel in whatever work you take up would benefit ultimately. Make the best out of your one year LL.M or any other Programme in all aspects and explore a new country – culturally, academically and personally. And at last, be ready to embrace the uncomfortable!