Super Lawyer

Tag: Corporate

  • Nikhil Patel, LL.M. from University College of London, on being a Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals

    Nikhil Patel, LL.M. from University College of London, on being a Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals

    Nikhil Patel graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2010. He has worked with business teams, as a legal expert, in multiple jurisdictions, including India, Malaysia, South Africa on a variety of corporate and commercial issues. He has also managed litigation in civil, criminal and labour related matters in both India and South Africa.

    Recently, he moved from being the Chief Legal Officer of Cipla Medpro in Cape Town, South Africa to Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals in the Hague, The Netherlands. He has an LL.M. in Corporate and Commercial Law from the University of London and currently pursuing M.B.A. from the University of Warwick, both through distance learning courses.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Biggest hurdles in the early days of his career.
    • Role of an in house/general counsel in India.
    • Advise for law students on maintaining a good academic profile.
    • What recruiters look for in law graduates.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’m a 2010 graduate of Symbiosis Law School, Pune. I’ve worked with Suzlon, Biocon and Himatsingka in the past, and recently moved from being the Chief Legal Officer of Cipla Medpro in Cape Town, South Africa to Senior Legal Counsel for DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals in the Hague, The Netherlands. I have an LL.M. in Corporate and Commercial Law from the University of London and am currently pursuing my M.B.A. from the University of Warwick, both through distance learning courses.

     

    What motivated you to pursue this field?

    I knew I wanted to be a lawyer from a relatively young age, although it was the allure of litigating in court at that point. This quickly changed during my time at college, where I found the intersection between business and law, particularly contract negotiation and creative problem solving, were much more attractive to me. This was particularly evident during my internships, since I enjoyed the in-house internships the most.

     

    What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle for me was about Law school is great for giving you theoretical knowledge, however it doesn’t prepare you very well for the practical side of being an in-house counsel. This meant a lot of late nights working on drafting styles, negotiation tactics and strategies and most importantly a superior that is willing to invest in training you, which is especially difficult in a typically underfunded and understaffed support team. I can’t stress enough on how important it is to find people in positions above you that are willing to spend time giving you context, exposure and knowledge.

    Practical legal training aside, there were some skills that I needed to learn (and/or bad habits that I needed to unlearn) like empathetic listening, a risk evaluation and mitigation approach rather than risk avoidance and having a thorough knowledge of the business behind the legal agreements I was negotiating.

     

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    What did your work profile at Cipla Medpro consist of and what do you now do at DSM Sinochem? What is the role of an in house/general counsel in India?

    My profile at Cipla Medpro included contract drafting and negotiation, litigation strategy and settlements, labour law, strategic advisory and transactional structuring, competition advice, corporate restructuring, compliance and a little IPR with a strong focus on the pharmaceutical sector in South Africa. The pharmaceutical focus continues at DSM Sinochem, though as a global role rather than limited to a particular geographical area.

    The in-house counsel is first and foremost a generalist. This means that you tend to do a little bit of everything and are expected to have knowledge (a working knowledge, at minimum) of everything. This means that you have to spend a lot of your time being up-to-date on not only the latest business updates of the industry sector, but also on legal updates pertinent to that sector. You play a vital role in the on-going business of your company – through contracts up and down the supply chain – as well as the future of the company by giving input on the strategic direction and advising on risk management and mitigation. Particularly with the rise in costs of external counsel (and reducing legal team budgets), companies are giving more and more responsibility to their in-house counsels, making the role more dynamic and exciting.

     

    What advice do you have for law students on maintaining a good academic profile?

    A good academic profile gives you a ‘foot in the door’. After that, it is up to you to make a great impression in the interview and ensure that you work hard to learn and add value to the place that you work. Of course it always helps that a good academic profile should indicate that your knowledge base is sound.

     

    What do recruiters look for in the current crop of law graduates?

    If you are a law graduate fresh out of college most recruiters will test your basic knowledge to ensure that you understand the fundamentals of the law. However, by far the most important aspect, at least from my experience, is attitude and ability. One of my previous superiors once commented while we were interviewing to fill a legal position that everything but attitude and ability can be taught and that those were often the hardest to find.

     

    When and how did you decide to pursue masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavor out of academic interests?

    I pursued my LL.M. simply because at the time I was working on a large number of agreements that were international and I wasn’t sure that I knew everything that I needed to know while I was drafting them. While it was difficult to manage my obligations and my studies, the LL.M. was fantastic in my opinion. It focused on teaching me how to apply the legal principals I was learning, and since I was working while I was studying the LL.M., I was able to put this into practice immediately.

    More recently I realised that if I wanted to grow further in the corporate world, purely legal knowledge is insufficient and that you also need an understanding of how HR, Finance, Marketing, Strategy and the other functions within a company operate. This realisation, coupled with the great experience of the distance learning LL.M. led me to begin the Distance Learning M.B.A. from Warwick Business School.

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    My advice would be, once you have decided that you want to practice law (whether in-house, at a law firm or as a litigator), make sure it is something that you truly enjoy doing. You’ll find that makes all the difference in whether you excel at it.

  • Abheek Saha, Amrit Lal Saha & Associates, on building a career in Investment Law

    Abheek Saha, Amrit Lal Saha & Associates, on building a career in Investment Law

    Abheek Saha graduated from M.S. Ramaiah College of Law, Bangalore (2007-2012). With a passion towards investment, he started investing at the age of 16 in the Indian stock market. Later, after the RBI rules were liberalized, started investing in the currency market. With a special interest in Investment laws, during the college days,he concentrated on the various changes – developments of Indian and foreign investment laws, arbitration, investment arbitration, Consumers Protection, Competition laws, etc.

     In this interview, he talks to us about

    • His experience at M.S. Ramaiah College of Law.
    • How did he develop a special interest in Investment Law.
    • His experience as a fresh graduate.
    • Important factors students should keep in mind while building their potential career graphs.

    How would you introduce yourself? Can you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Law was never a second choice for me. It was always first. The decision to pursue law may be because of both my personal interest and having already seen my father practice for many years.

    Like all 11th – 12th standard school students deciding on a career in law, I too searched for all the various places a law graduate can work after passing out of law college, and the search results the law firm, companies, or in the field of litigation broadly. The prospects looked good and that validated further my interest in law.

    Kindly acquaint us with your college life. What activities you were involved in apart from regular academic curriculum?

    I was in M.S. Ramaiah College of Law, Bangalore, and mostly stayed in hostel all through the 5 years and really lived the hostel life. Among all, the Ramaiah hostel was little exception with limited restriction on movement in the night and thus could explore Bangalore during those hours.

    Sports were quite limited and I only used to go for early morning basketball with hostelites near the Ramaiah Degree college and sometimes for the table tennis after classes in the old college building. Our college building shifted to a new one when we were in final year.

    Moot court was never part of our curriculum except during practical- the final two years. But I took special interest in them and in my second year participated in the Manfred Lachs Space Law Moot court competition – the ISRO funding round (NLSIU, Bangalore) and was really happy to see my Speaker score there. This was indeed my first moot court outside college. I also participated in Justice B R Sawhney Moot Court competition at NALSAR Hyderabad. I believe participating in these competition have broadened by research skills and also how to read, interpret and understand law during early days of law college. Apart from these two I have also participated in various intra and inter college competitions. We were Runners-up in ‘Mooting for Success’ organized by Law Department, Garden City College in 2010. My friend Satabish Ajjarapu who is presently a lawyer in Vizag was my Co-Speaker.

    How did you develop a special interest in Investment Laws? Did you have other areas of law that interested you? How did you ultimately choose your field of work?

    Investment related field was always my interest not only during law college days but from my school days. I used to do trading in stock market, later in currency market. So during law college there was a natural affinity towards investment laws. I have also completed a Diploma in Securities & Investment Laws from IIL, Bangalore.

    Presently through our law firm Amrit Lal Saha& Associates, we are advising lot of start-up companies, venture with really beautiful ideas through their conceptual stage to their growth stage. And Bengaluru being one of the best Start-up hub in the world, we get lot of such venture as our client. Sometimes we also cut down on our professional fees to help venture on their legal requirements and to see them in existence and thus enabling these companies and venture grow. As these companies are not all pursuing the same idea, dream and thus their requirements are quite different and these provides us the challenges and the drive to keep going.

    How can I learn to invest in the Indian stock market?

    I may not be the best person to answer this question. I don’t do it any more though. But on a general note I believe everyone can learn doing it.

    Is it a general assumption that the fresher graduates have to struggle a lot during the initial years, what was your experience?

    Struggle is an inevitable part of this profession and during initial years the struggle is definitely more. I believe the decision to pursue law as a career should not be driven by news, knowledge about how much a person is earning after passing out of law school and law colleges but by real passion in this field. I have seen Times of India publishing news about how good the placement was in NLSIU, Bangalore and then students taking decision to study law. At no cost this should be driving the decision to study law as it is not just another profession. Because long hours and focused determination and a desire to move on in the face of adversity, criticism shall bring success in this field.A famous saying of Justice Joseph Story which my father keeps reiterating “Law is a jealous mistress, and requires a long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favours, but by a lavish homage”. I believe the saying still holds goods but yes now we have lot more resources and a better faster way to search save them which helps the lawyer a lot in the profession.

    I started my career with working at Bhasin & Co., New Delhi. I was very excited then as I had my first interaction in that office with Mr Lalit Bhasin himself who had directed his Partner to conduct interview for me. It was rare to get through the firm without any reference and thus having got an offer to work there without any such references I was more happy. Eventually I have quit the firm due to personal obligations and have started on my own, firstly as a Co-Founder and Legal Counsel of a company and then as a part of Amrit Lal Saha& Associates. Now we have a good client base and things look good from here. But we had our share of struggle and our effort still continues to make things better.

    Tell us about your approach towards the long term and the short term goals you had set during the academic period and how were you able to manage it?

    Our priorities change with changing circumstances and thus I would say not all short term goals were met but slowly working towards accomplishing the long term goals. And it is those long term goals which ultimately decides our working and engaging strategies.

    Considering the nature and importance of this profession what according to you should be the focus of the law students at the law schools? What are the important factors which students should keep in mind while building their potential career graphs?

    I would say students should not be very specific during early college days about corporate or litigation or any other field but should intern and gain understanding of each such field and thus explore. 5 years college time which is a long time and the last 2 years can be spent focusing on the specific sector where they would start working.

    You have several publications to your credit! How do you choose when to write about what? Do you think research and publishing is very important for a law student?

    I have always written only in my areas of interest and choosing a topic I believe becomes easy when a person is keeping track of the changing laws and how it is evolving.

    I won’t say it is very important to write but definitely when a law student writes it helps somewhere and he can also keep track of how the law is evolving.

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    Everyone sets goal and even I have done for myself. In brief I would like to see the firm grow and we are able to address larger issues and clientele.

    What is your parting advice to our readers?

    For law students I will advise not to have a frozen goal for yourself but a dynamic one because we are social engineers and the law changes as the society changes and so should we.

     

  • Pranit Saxena, Founder, lawyerouno.com, on being a Manager at Tata Consultancy Services

    Pranit Saxena, Founder, lawyerouno.com, on being a Manager at Tata Consultancy Services

    Pranit Saxena graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. He currently works with TCS as a Manager in the BFSI-LPS sphere. He is part of the core team setting up GRC expert augmentation for an EU based clearing bank. The task involves the staffed GRC experts assisting the chief compliance officer with BFSI specific compliance across EU, APAC and Americas.

    Pranit is also the founder of lawyerouno.com. Lawyerouno is a social venture that helps clients contact and make appointments with any lawyer for free. It searches the most appropriate lawyer per the client’s needs.

     In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience at Symbiosis Law School.
    • Importance of higher studies for a lawyer.
    • com- where clients contact and make appointments with any lawyer for free.
    • His views on international financial situation owing to upcoming regulations and situations.

    Please introduce yourself to our readers, where did you grow up and complete your initial education? How did you decide to take up law?

    Hi, I am Pranit. I am currently working with TCS setting up their international compliance practice. My initial education was across six cities including Bathinda, Nagpur, Pithoragarh, Noida, Pune etc. in Army Public schools and Kendriya Vidhayalas owing to my dad being in the forces. After a lot shunting, I finally passed my 12th from Noida. I decided to take up law based on my discussions with my teachers in school and my penchant for getting in trouble with the system (school system i.e. repeatedly getting in trouble with the school administration) and I guess it had worked out fine till now.

    You have graduated with BBA LLB Degree from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    So Symbiosis back in 2006 was unlike any other law school that you would see right now. We had a limited campus, amazing faculty and even a better ecosystem of students from various fields (symbiosis law school was in the arts and commerce campus). This heterogeneity of students gave us a very early exposure to variety of disciplines and opportunities. It was rightly called the Oxford of the East, as the student community in Pune was very strong. They were perineal college festivals, competitions that used to go on and provided me ample opportunities to explore. Symbiosis Pune had no hostel in the campus and we used to live independently in the city, which was a huge learning in itself. The teachers came from a varied background and were very supportive and encouraging. Apart from the obvious knowledge, what Symbiosis uniquely provides every student, is the independent attitude and a corporate ready culture, which most of us would learn post our law school.

    Did you do any internship? What was the work allotted to you like?

    I completed 24 weeks of internship across law firms like Barucha, fox mandal, companies like Larson & Tubro and Supreme Court attorneys like P.P. Rao. The spectrum covered was intentionally larger to experience a variety of fields within the legal industry. The work allocated was usually around the research projects in law firms, case file summarization in Supreme Court and high courts and occasional arbitration work for L&T. The work also included being a part of the client/vendor meetings with the seniors and keeping a note of issues.

    How did you manage internship with studies? How did the practical exposure compliment the theoretical knowledge imparted to you in college?

    Back then in Symbiosis, internships were only allowed during breaks, which made sure there was never and conflict and balancing the internships with the mandatory attendance requirement was never a challenge.

    The court internships really helped in enhancing the nuances of the procedural laws which helped appreciate the theoretical knowledge.

    There is a huge gap between what we study and what we implement as lawyers in practice. With that being said, all the knowledge and experience in college forms a very robust base for what we lawyers are expected to do at work.

    Do you consider pursuing higher studies after graduation? How important is it for a lawyer to go for higher studies? Were you inclined at any time, towards the civil services?

    Not really till now. Although I feel certifications in specialized fields can add a lot of value to the entire candidature for future opportunities. Higher studies in my view, is helpful if you are looking for a career shift like teaching, MBA, etc. Higher studies can also buy you time in case you are inclined towards exams like civil services, judiciary etc.

    A civil services exam is a different ball game and students must start preparation while in law school as the time period of five years is a huge opportunity in itself. No doubt it is a brilliant career choice.

    Tell us something about lawyerouno.com.

    Lawyerouno is my love-child that I started three years back, just to give something back to the community. It is a platform which connects people looking for lawyers to lawyers for free. We have lawyers from over 60 cities on the portal. We started the venture with a social outlook and we are still trying to be true to it. The basic thought, behind the idea was to provide young lawyers who want to set up their practice, an opportunity to connect with clients. We are also planning a few products on the portal to provide competitive pricing advantage to the clients.

    How difficult was it for you to connect and convince different lawyers to register on lawyerouno.com?

    As the registration for lawyers on the portal was free and the intention was to provide them with an opportunity to connect with the clients, I actually did not face any resistance from them, although the technology for some senior lawyers was a challenge, which we circumvented by assisting them with a unique live chat support feature.

    What is the international financial situation owing to upcoming regulations and situations?

    My current role in TCS involves setting up of compliance support practice for financial sector clients. The financial world ever since the 2008 crisis is in a state of flux. The regulatory authorities are driving regulatory dynamism as an instrument of change. The more they want to be in control the tougher it is getting for the companies. The Brexit will spur a marked shift for financial companies trading or headquartered in the UK. The companies are vying for the regulatory advantage and gearing up their compliance departments for various new regulations like Mifid II, EMIR, Basel 3 etc. More the regulations better it is for us! All in all it is looking good for the lawyers in the compliance sphere.

    Would you say that the work environment at an LPO is completely different from a law firm?

    Although my current profile is consulting, my initial experience with Thomson Reuters in the LPO sphere convinced me that whatever notion we as law students have about LPOs is completely unfounded. In fact if you are looking for a career in corporate as opposed to litigation, LPO is a very good option as it provides you with the right learning opportunities, international exposure and a good work life balance. Several of my colleagues are now well-placed in the field of contracts and forensics with various fortune 500 companies and start-ups. Right after my stint with TR in the Compliance department, I was involved with a start-up Mind Merchants for setting up their global compliance practice, which started with 3 people and is now already 45+, hence my experience within LPO spurred my growth as a legal professional. The stark difference between the work cultures that I see between these industries is the autonomy and independence that any year 1-3 associate gets at an early stage in their career.

    What were your objectives and plans in the preliminary years of the law school?

    As any other student in the initial years the motive was to have fun and explore the college life to the Tee. It is the only in the penultimate and the final year, that I decided to chalk out a plan for myself. The plan was to identify what I enjoyed more, hence most of my firm internships were in those years which made me sure that I did not see it as my life choice.

    Lastly, what message would you leave for our budding lawyers?

    I urge students to explore themselves as much as possible instead of following treaded path blindly and choose what is best for them as a life choice rather than a career choice. Try not to be bound by what you hear, but channelize your choices around what you experience. Five years of law school is an opportunity, so use it well. All the best!

  • Biplab Lenin, Consultant, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building up expertise in Intellectual Property Rights

    Biplab Lenin, Consultant, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building up expertise in Intellectual Property Rights

    Biplab Lenin graduated from Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual property law (2009-2012). He is a qualified attorney with more than 4 years of both law firm and in-house experience in dealing with general corporate and intellectual property matters. He is registered to practice before Indian patent office and currently working with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas at its Delhi office. His core areas of work include wide range of transactions, general advisory and intellectual property matters. He has acted on some of the significant and complex transactions that the intellectual property team has been involved with.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • How he build up expertise in IPR.
    • Primary essentials of a corporate lawyer.
    • Professional ethics one should follow while at work.
    • Basic subjects one should understand before sitting for an interview.

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law students, law aspirants or professionals in the legal arena?

    I am currently working as a Consultant with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas in New Delhi. My practice areas include intellectual property laws and corporate laws. I am a registered patent agent at Indian patent office. I completed my LL.B. from Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law (RGSOIPL) in IIT Kharagpur Campus and also hold a graduate degree in Biotechnology Engineering.

    Were you always as fascinated by the field of IP Law or was it an acquired passion that set in through your college years?

    Since my father is also a lawyer, I was never a stranger to legal discussions which my father often used to do with his friends over evening tea after a long day in Court. Nevertheless, after 12th standard I followed the crowd of students doing engineering. In the last semester of my engineering, there was a subject called ” Intellectual property Rights”. Somehow, it attracted me quite a lot mainly because it involved both technology and law. That led me to apply for the course at RGSOIPL at IIT Kharagpur. I guess I was lucky to have studied under tutelage of good teachers and in a diverse peer group that IIT offers. Though I had an inclination towards IP subjects, at the same time, I wanted to do my internships on other subjects as well. Hence, I did internships with law firms as well as corporate in the domain of general corporate law, taxation, disputes, technology transfer and intellectual property law.

    How did you build up your expertise in IPR? Tell us about your work experience.

    My first hands on training on practical aspects of law happened in my internship at Monsanto. After finishing law school, I joined Mahyco as an in-house Counsel where I worked on different IP laws like patents, trademarks, plant variety, biological diversity and technology transfer. More importantly, interactions with several eminent scientists and stalwarts in the agri-biotech domain helped me realize the importance of understanding the technical nuances of the technology involved in any IP law. My engineering education helped me a lot in this area.

    After completing three and half  years of satisfying work at Mahyco, I joined Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas at Delhi where I am working on matters related to patents, plant variety, biodiversity, transfer & assignment of Intellectual property and general corporate transactions. On litigation front, I am a part of the team which is handling patent infringement and drugs ban litigation before the Delhi high Court. 

    Tell us about your schooling and early life. What do you think are the habits that you cultivated which help you today?

    I did my schooling from Sainik School in Bhubaneswar from Class 6th till Class 12. I think the values of integrity, camaraderie which are a hallmark of the army, are ingrained in me now. Also, Sainik School gave us a lot of endurance training, which helps me when I have to work for long hours in the Firm! I feel that my school experience was also quite instrumental in putting me at ease in any group with diverse cultural backgrounds, which is helpful for an attorney whose work involves people interaction.

    How are internships helpful for a law student? What are the other options available for someone interested in IP?

    Internships have a role to play in one’s professional career as a lawyer. They help us in learning how the law is practically applied. Also, business aspects of transactions are also better appreciated in internship. Skills like corporate communication are sharpened during internship. For those who are interested in making a career in IP, I suggest doing first internship under a practicing lawyer to get a feel of our justice delivery system. It is also important to look for quality work rather than brand name. There is no point in securing an internship in a big organization where there is little work for an intern. Students can join an IP specialized law firm or corporate for doing internships.

    Having Said that, I also feel that one should not be obsessed with stuffing one’s CV with internships. It is important to remember that in college one is a “professional student”and one’s primary duty as a professional student is to study the law books and the basic concepts. What can be learnt in 10 internships over 5 years in a no-pressure situation can be learnt in 6 months in a pressure situation when one starts actually working after college. Many times these days, interns, who have finished more than 10-12 internships in their first 3-4 years of college, but unclear about fundamental legal concepts, which I believe is injustice to one’s profession as a student.

    How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    I have always had a problem with this concept which pre-supposes that work and life are different and need to be balanced. I believe the first step in achieving work-life balance is to love yourself and love your work. Luckily I do both! Presently my focus is on honing my skills. I believe I’m being paid to learn now so I’m not complaining at all! I also believe that even at a senior level people do get time for themselves while managing work and I feel this should not be a concern for us at least at the beginning of our career.

    Any extra-curricular or co-curricular activities did you take up during your time at RGSOIPL and engineering? How did the same affect your learning experience and prepare you for the legal sector?

    I participated in a few moot court competitions during my college. However, I enjoyed parliamentary debate competitions more and also participated in several case study competitions conducted at IIT Kharagpur. During my engineering days as well, I have participated in several paper and poster presentations.

    However, apart from legal skills, I used extra-curricular activities to build my communication skills and inter-personal skills. I was one of the founding members of moot court society and conducted the first parliamentary debate competition at RGSOIPL.

    During my law school days, I worked as a volunteer in an NGO named “Independent Thought” based in Delhi. The NGO works for the Eradication of Social Disparity and Injustice by promotion of Fundamental and Socioeconomic Rights. I used to assist team in doing research and preparing reports with regard to remedies on issues relating to child labour. This experience showed me the humane side of the law and it still keeps my sensitivity intact and reminds me that beyond all the paper work and legal arguments there are real people who are affected by what I do.

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilize the opportunities available?

    I would suggest a two-pronged approach:

    1. Many students are thinking about doing an LL.M, immediately after LLB. I feel that an LL.M. without any work experience is just an LLB with some more semesters and a thesis.
      I strongly encourage fresh graduates to take up some professional assignment of their liking instead of academics, be it with a law firm or corporate or even NGO. You’re bound to be confused, so make sure someone’s paying you in the meantime!
    2. In college, we first pay fees and then we learn. In a job, we get paid to learn. Therefore, as a paid student, learn as much as you can about different areas of law and practice. It is important to remember that most books mention “law” and “practice” separately, for example Banking Law and Practice, meaning thereby that practice is something different from mere legal provisions. This will help you in choosing a particular field or subject for your career.

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    I think honesty towards the client and one’s colleagues is of utmost importance. One may be low on information about a legal concept, which can be gained, but honesty must come from inside. This of course is a basic human requirement in any profession, so all law graduates must also try to imbibe these values.

    Patience is also a vital asset. One must not get affected by looking at how others are doing in the profession.

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    I believe that honesty is the best policy. If there is a mistake, one should admit immediately. Mistakes are bound to happen especially in areas where human effort is involved. In face of mistakes, first requirement is to maintain a cool head, accept a mistake has been made and then immediately start working on a solution. When I’m the team lead, I own the mistakes of my team. I think clients too appreciate such candidness.

    What are the basic subjects which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    From point of view of legal concepts, basic understanding of the following 5 subjects is a must for any civil lawyer regardless of any interview:-
    1. Contracts (including sale of goods and specific relief)
    2. Transfer of property
    3. Evidence
    4. Registration and stamp duty (basic concepts not details)
    5. Constitution (basic concepts)

    Thereafter, one may try to gauge the requirements of any specific interview and prepare accordingly.

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line?

    Hopefully still on the line!! Jokes apart, my first aim is to build my expertise in my domain, which is more of an internal process. I haven’t really given a thought to any particular designation as such. But I would like to be a lawyer who has earned atleast two things – complete trust of  clients which  allows them to sleep peacefully as far as their legal worries are concerned; and respect from seniors and peers in the profession regarding my professional ethics and competence. Apart from this, designations are trivia!

    Please compare RGSOIPL with other law schools.

    RGSOIPL is a unique law school because admission itself requires a degree in technology or medicine. Being a part of IIT Kharagpur campus, it has an IIT-style admission process with entrance test, group discussion and interviews, which is a great learning in itself. It attracts students from all over the country, which helps in enriching one’s culture and view of life. Also, studying law in the IIT Kharagpur campus in the midst of the crème-de-la-crème of India’s technical brains, gave me 2 important lessons –

    • Law is an instrument to facilitate business and technology;
    • Law cannot be learnt or applied in isolation without an eagerness to learn the technical dynamics of any business.

    RGSOIPL also benefits from the infrastructure of IIT. We had access to major online legal resources like Westlaw, Manupatra and Hein online apart from books.  There are various co-curricular activities which one can pursue to unwind from demanding course schedule.

    How is your experience in working as In house and then shifting to law firm?

    Being an In-house counsel helps to learn the significance of law as a toll for business. However, I would advise to have law firm and court experience at the initial stages of the career and learn court proceedings and allied matters and then shifting to in-house.

    Shifting from In-house to a law firm is tough from a work pressure point of view. Also, subject experts are readily available when you are working in-house, which may not be the case in a law firm full of mostly lawyers. Anyone who wishes to develop a very particular specialization should work in in-house IP department. Law firm gives you a more diversified work. Needless to say, law firm working hours are more strenuous. However, learning as well as growth is much speedier in a law firm.

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    An excellent CGPA is always good. However, it is important to co-curricular and extracurricular activities as well. Read as much as you can. Take risks when it is required. It is not necessary that every risk you take will result in success. There will be failures too.

    It is important to not think too seriously about oneself and one’s so-called reputation etc. while taking professional decisions. I think the most vital part is that one should feel good both as a human being and a lawyer.

     

  • Ajar Rab, Partner, Rab & Rab Associates, on Dual degree LL.M. and MBA from Germany, NLSIU graduate, on setting up Uttarakhand’s first law firm

    Ajar Rab, Partner, Rab & Rab Associates, on Dual degree LL.M. and MBA from Germany, NLSIU graduate, on setting up Uttarakhand’s first law firm

    Ajar Rab graduated from National Law School Of India University, Bangalore(2006-2011). At present, he is a partner at Rab & Rab Associates LLP, Dehradun and his work ranges from civil litigation, arbitration and corporate transactions.

    He is also an international policy consultant at Lexidale and a Non-Resident Expert at Vidhi where his work includes review of existing laws, policies and regulations, drafting of policy documents, amendments, rules and regulations and research on comparative policy.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience at NLS, Bangalore.
    • His decision to pursue with a dual degree- LL.M. and MBA from Germany.
    • Skills one must require to become a legal consultant.
    • His views on how Indian Universities may improve the education regime.

    How would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life.

    I am a lawyer who grew up in the small hill station of Mussoorie where I studied at St. George’s College. My school lay great emphasis on extra-curricular activities and I was an active debater and loved playing sports. I was very lucky to find good friends with whom I have the fondest memories.

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    My parents are also lawyers. My father is a designated senior advocate at the High Court and my mother has spent over 37 years at the trail courts. I guessed I absorbed things like a sponge, never really seeing the big picture directing my interest in law. Though my parents never told me to become a lawyer, somehow their experiences and narrations about court cases and clients generated a keen interest in law.

    Please share your experience at National Law School of India University, Bangalore, especially as the first student to be elected as President of the Student Bar Association in absentia.

    I feel very lucky and privileged to have had a chance to study at NLS Bangalore. The place changed me for the better and I feel I am an entirely different person, pre and post college. One of my seniors, Nizam Pasha, who was in his final year when I joined, told me “Law School is a land of opportunity” and I don’t think I have better words to describe the place.

    My election to the SBA, while I was on exchange, was sheer benevolence of my batch and my close friends. I am truly grateful to all of them for believing and in me and convincing the others who did not at the time. My term at the SBA was full of various highs and lows. I have no hesitation to admit that it changed my world view forever. I learnt a lot about strategy, politics, negotiation and public perception – something we have to deal with daily as lawyers.

    Why did you decide to pursue higher studies? What was your motivation?

    Working for the general corporate team at Amarchand, I developed an interest in corporate law and transactions. During my time at law school, I always believed I wanted to do only litigation but after working for year, I realized I did not know enough about transactional lawyering so I wanted to pursue higher studies to educate myself.

    Why did you pursue with a dual degree- LL.M. and MBA from Germany? Why Germany and not some IVY League University?

    I chose the Master of Law and Business program at Bucerius Law School/WHU Otto-Beisheim School of Management, which to my mind, was a unique blend of law and business management, geared towards international commercial transactions. The faculty profile included some of the biggest names in academics and industry and the course outlines were structured as practical applications of concepts rather than mere theory. I guess that seemed like the right fit to learn more about the ins and outs of transactions, both from a legal as well as a commercial perspective.

    Do you think that the Indian Law Universities need a change to match up to the standards of foreign Universities? What can be done in order to make NLUs more conducive for learning? How do you think Indian Universities may improve the education regime?

    Definitely, the gap between Indian Law Universities and foreign universities is quite big. I feel our traditional style of classroom instruction is out dated with the dynamic application of concepts we learn in class. Exercise oriented class room discussions are far more fruitful for understanding the theory and applying them. At my masters, our professors gave us case studies which are used in IVY league institutions and we were tested on our analysis and conclusions, rather than simply answering theoretical questions in an examination. I think our universities can adopt a similar approach, but my caveat is that our system of school education should also change to accommodate that kind of learning.

    What are the skills one must acquire to become a legal consultant?

    I think every lawyer is a legal consultant to some extent. The distinction here is more on lawyers who handle litigation in Courts and those that are involved at policy levels or at the level of legal strategy. I don’t think the skills required to become a legal consultant are very different or unique, just that as a consultant, especially a policy consultant, needs to have the broader picture in mind with respect to the ramifications of their advice in various areas.

    Share your work experience as the first law firm of Uttarakhand.

    I consider myself lucky that our firm has had very versatile experience, in terms of the nature of work and the kind of clients. It is not so say that we did not struggle at the beginning but my seniors and friends have been very kind to refer various matters and as a result though it has been only 5 years since my brother setup the law firm, we have represented some of the biggest names in the country such as the Aditya Birla Group, Birla Tyres, Hyatt group of hotels, Rakesh Roshan, Viom Networks etc., for litigation as well as corporate transactions.I guess the cliché holds true “I get by with a little help from my friends”.

    What were the reasons behind leaving Amarchand&Mangaldas and moving to Dehradun?

    I learnt a lot at Amarchand but left to pursue my masters. Moving back to Dehradun is a question I am regularly asked about and have been defending since the time I left Amarchand. My brother had already setup a law firm,Uttarakhand was a promising State and there was scope of transactions here. With my experience, I felt moving back would add to our areas of practice and we will be able to service clients within Uttarakhand and outside if we provide quality legal advice.

    What kind of work you are entrusted with as a non-resident expert?

    My stint with Vidhi has been brief but I was part of a team which was drafting amendments to the Food Safety Act and its Rules.

    Many law students aspire to secure a job. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observation? Please give our readers some tips to nail an interview.

    I think sometimes we tend to over sell ourselves and also forget that the person who is interviewing us has also been on the other side of the table. There is no substitute for sincerity and honesty in an interview. One other thing is that students tend to estimate their value by the size of the pay package being offered. I don’t think that is necessarily true. A pay package is a management decision considering various other aspects and costs than just someone’s qualifications and value. Moreover, freshers applying for a job tend to forget that even though they did really well in law school, practicing law in real life is a different ball game altogether – an experience they definitely lack. The aim early-on should to be take a job which allows maximum exposure and experience, rather than a fat pay cheque.

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers who are mainly young lawyers and law students?

    Law is a field which requires immense patience and experience. We all aspire to be like Mr. Nariman, Mr. Singhvi or Mr. Rohtagi, but we forget how long they have been in practice. They have a name and charge a fee after decades of being in practice. Students today tend to want a similar lifestyle straight out of law school, which leads to frustration. If the aim is to grow your knowledge of law day-by-day, be better lawyers and work towards your clients’ best interests with utmost dedication, I think we all may land up being where the big names are, but only in due time.

  • Jaimin Dave, Graduate from Institute of Law, Nirma University, on beginning his practice at Gujarat High Court

    Jaimin Dave, Graduate from Institute of Law, Nirma University, on beginning his practice at Gujarat High Court

    Jaimin Dave, a 2012 graduate of Institute of Law, Nirma University, Ahmedabad is currently working as an Independent Counsel, at the High Court of Gujarat. He litigates in all types of civil cases, his areas of interest being Corporate and Commercial Laws. In this interview he tells us about:

    • The importance of knowledge, as compared to CGP;
    • The passion of indulging in mooting and Legal Aid;
    • The way to prepare for the All India Bar Examination;
    • The experience of representing institutions like Reliance, Asian Paints, Ford, Huntsman, and various others;
    • The work as a Retainer Advocate;
    • The choice of Corporate Law as a career.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    A simple easy going man who happens to be lawyer by vocation.  I am based at the High Court of Gujarat and mostly deal in all kind of Civil Cases. Amongst Civil Cases, I would say, I have special liking for Corporate/Commercial and Taxation matters.

    What has your experience been like, studying in Institute of Law, Nirma University? What other co-curricular and extra-curricular activities were you involved in?

    Journey at ILNU shall always remain special. According to me it is one of the top ranked Private Law Schools in India and I consider myself to be fortunate enough to have graduated from ILNU. 

    If I look back at my journey at ILNU, I was part of a pioneer batch and most of them in my batch were extremely competitive. There were 10 to 15 batch mates who were outstanding and it is from there, that I derived motivation to do well at ILNU. Of course, all of them are supremely able and I think I am still catching up with them. But, yes, in their company I learnt that there is no substitute of excellence. Academic brilliance was encouraged at ILNU but at the same time it was ensured that we got practical exposure to different arenas through adequate internships, workshops and co-curricular activities. At ILNU we were always pushed harder to walk an extra mile in whatever we did; be it academics, co-curricular activities or internships. And that habit of pushing hard and walking an extra mile, which was inculcated at ILNU, is helping big time in professional life.

    I was involved in host of co-curricular activities. But, mooting and Legal Aid were two of the activities in which I was keenly interested out of all the other co-curricular activities. I believe mooting has multi-dimensional advantages attached to it and to me it was highly beneficial. It helped me develop much required confidence for litigation. The legal aptitude and knack of identifying clinching points in a given scenario developed due to mooting. Besides this it enhanced my research and analytical skill. Legal aid was done out of sheer interest and even today I am part of High Court Legal Aid Services Committee since I am firm believer in repaying back to the society.

    You had honors in Corporate Law. Tell us about the Honors Program at ILNU?

    Again interest for Corporate Law developed on account of few Moot Courts that I did on this subject. This is the reason behind choosing Corporate Law as honors course.

    ILNU offers a well strategized Corporate Honors program. As a part of my honors program, I got an opportunity to carry out extensive research and read texts on topics like Mergers & Amalgamation, Securities Law, Contract and Tenders, Corporate Insolvency, Corporate restructuring etc. I believe things done at the time of corporate honors program helps me today when I sit down to vet SPA’s/SHA’s, draft a winding up petition or let’s say draft a scheme for De-mergers/Amalgamation. To sum up, corporate honors at ILNU was very insightful.

    You’ve been awarded with the Best Student of Law for Batch 2007-2012, and have also bagged two gold medals for the highest CGP, and the highest CGP in Corporate Honors. How relevant would you say, have these grades been, since you started litigation?

    As a student of law school, I believe, my focus was more on acquiring skills, intellect and knowledge. The awards and medals just happened while I was honing my skills at law school. Yes, they give you a sense of satisfaction and it shall stay as a pleasant memory with you. But, at the same time I acknowledged and realized that these medals only indicate that I did a fair job as a student during law school. It does not carry my case any further.

    Yes, it motivated me to do well as a professional. The day I graduated and received them, I sat down and told myself that this is not the end and it is just beginning. I made it clear in my head that awards and medals have to be left behind and I need to put in the same amount of hard work and dedication, as I did for the past five years, so as to establish myself as a good professional. Grades, awards and medals became completely insignificant the day I stepped into practical field since there are a lot of others factors and skills that makes you a good litigating lawyer like time management, Court craft, awareness about mindset of a Judge, skills of opponents etc.

    In fact, to be very blunt, if you opt for litigation as career, grades, awards and medals are either a piece of paper in your drawer or a show piece at your office. Speaking for myself, nobody ever approached me and handed over a brief to argue because of my grades or medals. Only skills, intellect and knowledge, that have been acquired during law school life have helped me so far. Therefore, in my opinion, focus should be more on quality of knowledge and skills that you acquire rather than grades or medals you obtain at law school. Of course medals give you some morale boost but one needs to back that up with other intellect to survive in litigation.

    How did you prepare for the All India Bar Examination?

    AIBE is one of the easiest exams that I have ever appeared for as a Law Student.

    Of course, before taking the examination, I was a little nervous, considering the longish curriculum that AIBE has. As a fresh pass out, it is perplexing to know that all those laws, for which you took five long years to study, are now required to be read over for a single exam. Having said this, I approached AIBE with incisive planning and gave myself sufficient time to prepare for the exam. The idea was to run through Bare Acts related to all the laws mentioned in AIBE curriculum. Thereafter, I read commentaries on CPC, Contract Act, Specific Relief, Law of Torts, CrPC, IPC and Evidence Act since these subjects carried maximum weightage and refreshing memory on these subjects would have helped me in litigation as well. Once I did this, I was fairly confident of appearing in AIBE.   

    Everyone who has appeared for AIBE will endorse that if your fundamentals as Law Student are clear, it should be a cake walk to clear it. It simply tests your basic knowledge on several statutes that form fulcrum of Indian Legal System.

    However, I personally believe that AIBE can be made more challenging and stiffer, if BCI really wants to achieve the purpose behind introducing it.

    What made you gravitate towards litigation, immediately after graduation? What other options were you considering?

    As a kid, robes and neck bands fascinated me and that’s how I have ended up in this black and white world.

    On a serious note, I think I thrive on challenges and I was gravitated to litigation because of challenges attached to it. I am a first generation lawyer and decided to choose litigation as a career despite strong NO from near and dear ones only because I am passionate about practicing law. I was clear about choosing litigation as a career from day one of my law school because of the following reasons:

    • In litigation you get firsthand experience of interpreting law and testing your legal acumen. As a lawyer you can evolve a new law point and test it before the Court. As a law-firm associate or in house counsel you can never become master of a brief. Obviously they can bring up a point and most of them come up with excellent points. But ultimately it is left upon wisdom and good judgment of litigating lawyers to decide as to whether it should be argued or not depending upon opponent, Bench and other factors. I prefer being master of brief and hence this career over other options. Yes it brings lot of responsibility and risk along with it but then I have always enjoyed this till now. 
    • Secondly, it is a career which throws up new challenge almost every day. As a lawyer I deal with matter involving different subject matters such as Winding-up, Tax and Stamp Laws, Mergers & Amalgamation, Land Acquisition Law, Electricity Laws, Land Laws, Civil Procedure Code etc. When you deal with such wide range of subject, your job is never monotonous. Each case, each opponent, each Bench and each law throws up a different challenge and you have to don different hats to do justice to brief. 
    • Lastly, I would say is the job satisfaction associated with litigation, tilted my interest towards it. For me it is always satisfying to argue a law point well and convince a judge. If you have prepared and argued the brief well the clients will also acknowledge your efforts and their satisfaction with your work is always a morale booster. Yes the picture is not always rosy and there are days when matters get adjourned or you cannot convince a judge even after toiling through earlier night to prepare a brief. But, as far as I put in my best efforts I am a satisfied man.

    As I said, I never considered other options as a Career. Even today I do not have plan B, if I fail I am gone. But at least for now, I believe I have made a right choice. This I say so because I am also involved in non-lit work like drafting and vetting of SHA’s, SPA’s and other contracts. That work to me is not as interesting as litigation because practicing law is much like playing sport to me.

    Was there anyone, in particular, who influenced you while deciding on litigation?

    Not really, but I think it is my internships that sealed my decision to join litigation. I did a running internship with Senior Advocate S. N. Soparkar during last two semesters of law school and then at Supreme Court with Hon’ble Justice A. R. Dave. These internships were enriching. After getting an exposure to different matters and work culture at High Court and Supreme Court, I thought it was the right decision to join litigation. There was nothing in particular that influenced my decision significantly; I went with my heart and followed something I was passionate about.

    What are your core areas of practice? How did you find your domain?

    During the initial phase of your career there is nothing like a core area of practice. It is like you have to accept every cuisine that is served into your platter when you are famished.

    Likewise, I am a litigating lawyer who takes up every kind of civil litigation that comes up to me and also criminal matters if they are related to white collar crimes, commercial transactions or land disputes. I admit that I have that special liking for Commercial and Taxation matter and criminal doesn’t interest me much. But that liking towards corporate and taxation matters is because of the fact that I am conversant with those two subjects and also because I have experience of appearing in Court for such matters. Ordinarily I would grasp matters related to taxation and corporate/commercial laws much faster as compared to other matters. But that does not mean that I cannot prepare myself on other subject. If I get few hours to prepare myself with any civil brief I am ready and willing to argue it. It is others who have labeled me as a lawyer for corporate or taxation subjects. According to me I am lawyer who accept all civil briefs and whose comfort zone might be Corporate and Tax Laws.

    What is the present scenario of Corporate Law as a career option in India?

    An opportunistic career.

    They have established National Company Law Tribunal an Commercial Courts are coming up. We already have DRT, ITAT, CESTAT and few other tribunals. Insolvency legislation is coming up and there is this Real Estate Regulation and Development Act. All these laws and institutions collectively indicate that there is lot of litigation in store. So if you are planning to become a litigating corporate lawyer the future seems to be bright. Even on non-lit side, SPA and SHA are on rise in India and with enhancement of FDI cap in several sectors it will only rise further.

    What are the challenges of being an advocate in the Gujarat High Court?

    High Court of Gujarat is one of the better Courts to start practice. The Bar members are receptive to junior lawyers. Most of the seniors are approachable and ready to help when you seek their advice. The Hon’ble Judges are willing to hear you patiently provided you argue appropriate points with the brief in hand. There are a lot of people in similar age group as that of me so obviously you make lot of friends at the bar. Also you can have intellectual discussions with them and their perspective adds value to your preparation for a brief and understanding of law at large. All in all, I would say environment is good at Court and despite being first generation lawyer I never found any problem at the Court.

    Have the law schools in India been able to produce socially relevant lawyers, given that many choose to take up firm jobs?

    Taking jobs in law firm does not mean that you are socially insensitive. Lot of my friends who have joined law firms do social work in their free time. I agree that as lawyers you can become directly relevant to society through Pro Bono litigation and Public Interest Litigations. But that does not mean that law schools have failed in producing socially relevant lawyers because more people take up firm jobs.

    I feel every law school emphasizes upon its student to inculcate ethics, values and good conscience. It is the individual’s choice thereafter to decide the impact that he wants to have on society.

    Has there been any case that changed your perspective about the Indian judicial system?

    Every case that I have argued till now has changed my perspective about the Indian Judicial System. I have a habit of analyzing my performance before the Court irrespective of the outcome of the matter. When you analyze your performances it is bound to leave an impact on you and change your perspective about the system.

    Ultimately I have realized that the system remains the same, it is more about changing your perspective as a lawyer and molding yourself to fit in the system. You get effective results out of the existing system, the faster and better you mold yourself to fit and then excel in the system.

    Please tell us about your experience of representing some of the most reputed institutions, and being a Retainer Advocate at various other institutions.

    Obviously it is good to represent institutions like Reliance, Asian Paints, Ford, Huntsman etc. before different forums very early in one’s career. But my preparation for each brief has remained the same depending on the merits involved in the matter.  I have never gone by the name of the client over the docket while putting in efforts into a brief. However, when you sit down to prepare for briefs of these reputed institutions all the relevant information is on the table and it becomes easier and less time consuming as compared to other clients. Their approach to litigation is much more methodical and strategic as compared to other clients.

    Coming to retainer- ship, honestly, it is a tedious job. They approach you for legal assistance in each and every small notice and petty issues. And sometimes with lack of time you lose the plot. But then advantages outrun the disadvantages. It helps me in learning about the problems that such institutions face in day to day functioning. I get an opportunity to solve those problems and keep myself abreast with development in various laws such as Arbitration, Negotiable Instruments, Labor Laws, Registration of documents, Stamping etc. Hence, as far as I am learning out of it, I will continue accepting retainer-ships.

    The Bar Council of India is contemplating on the formation of a new rule which will require lawyers to practice in lower courts, before arguing before the High Courts and the Supreme Court. If this rule is made concrete, do you think it will help?

    I think it should be left to the conscious decision of an individual lawyer rather than imposing something like that by way of rules.

    Before starting to practice at High Court of Gujarat, even I was confused and contemplated whether to join sub-ordinate courts for initial one to two years. But then I consulted two very good seniors at High Court of Gujarat and both were of unanimous opinion that lower courts practice does not have significant impact on practice at High Court if you are aware about the procedural aspects of sub-ordinate courts and basic statutes. Considering this I started my practice straight away from High Court and obtained good understanding on procedural aspects of sub-ordinate courts and re-read basic statutes such as CPC, Evidence, Specific Relief, Contract, Court Fees Act and Limitation. Once you do this I don’t think there can be any problem.

    Today, I also take up selected matters before sub-ordinate courts and not practicing there before joining High Court hasn’t impacted my performance anywhere so far. However, this is my personal belief. BCI is a wise body and there must be some thought behind proposed rules. As and when it is rolled out one can have better understanding about the intention behind such rules.

    Finally, what parting message would you like to give to our readers?

    I would say learn as much as you can while in law school. Learning does not mean only bookish knowledge because grades and awards are secondary; your intellect and knowledge comes above all. By learning, I mean educate yourselves with every possible trick related to the profession you wish to join after graduation. It can be done through running internships, workshops, seminars, moots, debates etc. This will make you a complete product by the end of five years.   When you join a profession, not all days are going to be the same. Trust me it will be a roller coaster ride from day one. Sometimes you unexpectedly win a matter and sometimes you lose a good matter. However, you are bound to make progress, as long as you keep working hard, stay honest to your work ethics, believe in yourself and grab opportunities that come your way. I acknowledge that the track is difficult and you need to have your foot on the pedal all the time, but then smooth tracks don’t create skilled operators. 

    In the entire process make sure you make a lot of friends, take vacations and do adventures, travel and explore the globe, drive a machine you love. Stay gracious to everyone who has helped to be what you are. Most importantly make sure you take out enough time for friends and family, although I have been accused of not following this part of my advice. But, I am trying to make amends by taking out time for people who matter.

    With this, I wish every reader best of luck with their future endeavors!

  • Ekagra Jain, Associate, Wadia Ghandy & Co. on mooting, academics, and bagging a job

    Ekagra Jain, Associate, Wadia Ghandy & Co. on mooting, academics, and bagging a job

    Ekagra Jain graduated from the Institute of Law, Nirma University in 2016. From being the Best Oralist in 4th NALSAR-NFCG Corporate Law Moot Competition, 2015, to being the Best Emerging Player while representing his University in sports, he made sure that he explored every opportunity which came his way. He is inclined toward Corporate Law and Competition Law and is currently working in the Banking & Finance Department at Wadia Ghandy & Co., Mumbai.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience at ILNU, both inside and outside the classroom and the decision to peruse law.
    • The importance of balancing academics and the co-curricular and extra-curricular activities.
    • Work experience at Wadia Ghandy & Co.
    • His views on building a successful career graph in the field of law.

    How would you introduce yourself to all our readers?

    To everybody reading this, I am Ekagra Jain, a 2016 Graduate from Institute of Law, Nirma University, Ahmedabad. I have been recruited by Wadia Ghandy & Co. through college placements and have been working in the Banking & Finance Department, Wadia Ghandy & Co., Mumbai. Born & brought up in Jabalpur, I am a passionate reader who is still ‘learning’ in life and believes in being the change you wish to see in the world.

    Why did you choose law as your career, who and what were your sources of inspiration?

    To say that I wanted to be a lawyer for a long before would surely be fallacious. However, I was an avid debater during my school days which inclined my interests towards journalism in the beginning. My family had always given me full liberty to choose the venture I sought to enter into and thereby gave me a chance to break the stereotype of following ‘engineering’ as a career option. I had always been fascinated with legal education and the scope that existed beyond the four walls of the court room. However, with enhanced research and reading, taking into account career growth, I decided near to the end of the 12th standard that I wanted to be a lawyer. The  source of my inspiration is primarily my grandfather, who studied at BHU and was a Public Prosecutor for 11 years. In addition, my family trusted in me and what I wanted to do and the results have not disappointed them since. To the contrary, what scared me the most before entering law was the volumes of books that a lawyer is required to refer to. However, with the passage of time and dedication, to say the least, I have acclimatized myself to this profession and my inclination towards law has only escalated since then.

    How was your law school journey like- could you share your experiences with us? What were your favorite subjects and your areas of specialization?

    To say that my experience at Nirma University has been fabulous would be an understatement. Summing up a period of 5 years within 10 lines is an arduous task. Nirma gave me the perfect platform to groom myself personally and professionally. For me, when you barge into the entrance of a law school, you should keep your arms wide open towards actively participating in all activities that happen in a law school because that in turn lets you find what your interest lies in and also lets you adapt to itchy and uncomfortable situations. From focusing on academics, the submission of assignments, writing research papers, participating in moots, attending classes on a regular basis, to playing football representing the University, I made sure I didn’t have any regrets and enjoyed myself during the voyage of ‘learning’.  I am very thankful that I did law as it has made me think outside the box, meet some charismatic personalities who have helped me down the line and helped me improve as an individual. During my whole law course, I showed dedication towards all fields and made sure I did not overburden myself and left time for leisure with friends as well.

    My Area of Specialization is Corporate Law Honors and I had been inclined towards Corporate Law & Competition Law therefore, I gave the Company Secretary Exam a shot and also the NALSAR Moot on Corporate Law. Additionally, I guided moot teams for their preparation primarily on corporate related Laws. I also have an interest towards International Laws namely Public International Law and International Trade Law to name a few.

    You being one of the all-rounders of our college, kindly share with us your academic as well as extra-curricular experiences that have helped build your personality? What were your biggest achievements in and outside law school?

    As they say, the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war. For me, my basic approach had always been to ensure Balance and train myself rigorously within all fields. Academically, I have always maintained above average pointers with my CGPA for the 5 years at around 8.7. I have also cleared the Executive Level of Company Secretary and will be attempting the Professional level soon. I have also obtained a Cyber Law Diploma Certificate from GLC and Asian School of Cyber Laws with a view to expand my knowledge.

    With respect to Internships, I made sure I interned at all platforms and kept a planned approach towards it. I maintained a steady start originating from NGOs to Trial Courts to High Courts. I also interned under the Assistant Solicitor General of India. Moving on to Supreme Court, I interned under Mr. Shanti Bhushan, Former Union Law Minister and Senior Advocate which gave me a glimpse on the Supreme Court functioning and the clash of all high-rated arguments which flow. I have also interned in S & R Associates, Bharucha & Partners, Link Legal India Law Services, to name a few law firms. Owing to my interest as highlighted earlier towards International Law, I also interned at International Trade Law Consultants, New Delhi where I was offered a position in the long run.

    With respect to Moot Courts, I have been adjudged as the ‘Best Oralist’ for the 4th NALSAR-NFCG Corporate Law Moot Competition, 2015. We also bagged the ‘Best Memorial’ and we were ‘Semi-Finalists’ for this moot. I have also represented my University at the Asia-Pacific Rounds of ELSA WTO Moot Court Competition in Philippines, Manila and International Maritime Moot organized by VIPS, Delhi. Additionally, I guided various teams representing the University at the National and International Level. I have also written various research papers and made paper presentations. I was also the Co-editor for Law Mantra for certain years and worked as a Research Associate with Grayscale Inc.

    For all the time I managed in between all that I did above, I tried my best to utilize it towards Football and fun with friends. I was awarded the Best Emerging Player of the Tournament from the University in 2013 and was also the Vice-Captain of the Team representing Institute of Law. In addition, I played in Yuvardha and for S & R Associates as an Intern at the Football Cup, Mumbai. All these all round experiences and their management have helped me in building my personality in the long run.

    Tell us about your approach towards the long term and the short term goals you had set during the academic period and how were you able to manage it?

    A goal without a plan is just a wish. I planned certain things way back to avoid panicking when the time arrived. With respect to scoring well in academics, I didn’t keep it as my utmost priority. All I always focused on was realizing the subject, its importance and getting the interpretation of law at its true essence. Exams weren’t and shouldn’t be an Integral goal. At the end of the day, even if you are a 9.6 pointer and could not answer the difference between hypothecation and pledge through an example, you still didn’t learn the way you should have. So my short term goal was always to get things in mind with appropriate logic. P.S.: If you have understood a topic, the exam pointers are always on your side.

    Apart from academics, my short term goals were mainly to balance all extra-curricular activities in a manner that does not deteriorate the level of education I wished to attain. During my 1st & 2nd year, I would attend classes, play scheduled football match at lunch, and give an exam, complete assignments, research for moot all in a day.  It is a tough task at the start but soon you get to acclimatize yourself doing all things some way or the other.

    With respect to long term goals,  most of the students and I would include me within this ambit are often stuck up in the starting years figuring out what seeks to be the apt future and where should we be heading at the end of 5 years and that is normal. Though I could see certain glimpses of where I will be heading towards the end, I fell short of being firm on my decision. By my third year, I was certain towards heading to the corporate field where I also attempted the Company Secretary exam and cleared it easily. I worked on my CV and did internships at places I was inclined to. Additionally, I also read up various articles on Corporate laws to augment my knowledge with all the current debates.

    Wadia Ghandy & Co, Mumbai was the first law firm arriving for recruitment in my Batch and had a three step procedure for recruitment. It started with a written submission followed by Skype Interview and Final Round Interview at Headquarters, Mumbai. I had my basics clear and worked hard for the Final Round Interview. Finally when the moment arrived, I made sure I was well prepared to seize the opportunity thereby.

    To sum up, plan beforehand on how you are going to take off. After law college you ae left at the midst of a highway where you see roads going off in divergent directions. Additionally, I was at my toes with backup options if things didn’t work out as you expect them to. The goal should always be to maintain consistency, trusting yourself and improving yourself. Also, the trick is to understand what is expected out of you when you step out and to learn the nuances which may help sustain you in the long run.

    How far do you see your university as being the contributor in preparing you for what you are right now? Does ‘specialization’ in any field of law, as provided by your college, help in the early stages of one’s career?

    For all that I stand today, I am indebted to Nirma University for graduating me not just in law, but in life too. Being a Private Law University set up just in 2007 and directly competing with the National Law Universities, we have made a place in the top most law institutions. We have had some astonishing faculties who have helped us down the line when it mattered most. An Institution is normally represented by its students and the students have left no stone unturned in brightening the name. From acing BCI Moot 3 times in a row (& various other moots too) to having record breaking placements as a Private University, the Institution has provided immense support to the students to rise on their own feet within the legal arena. As a Student run initiative, the Institute also supports Judiciary coaching for students who seek to do so. (I attended this to brush up all my laws). Having said that, we are still a growing institution and despite the positives as highlighted above, we still fall short on certain matters and have a long way to go.

    With respect to specializations, I did specialization in Corporate Law and this has helped me to flourish and intensify my knowledge in corporate law. It has facilitated me also to work at ease and has also catered to my clearance of CS Executive.

    Tell our readers about the goals you have set for yourself for the upcoming years? What do you see yourself doing ten years from now?

    As of now, my goal is to learn and improve myself by the practical exposure I get in the shortest time possible. Other than my occupation, I am more committed towards successful completion of Company Secretary – Professional level exam due in December. I am not really certain for 10 years down the line, but if things go as planned, I see myself giving another interview to Super Lawyer 10 years from now as Partner of one of the leading firms 😉

    You are working with Wadia Ghandy & Co., one of the oldest law firms of India, tell us about your working experience? What is the real world like- are you facing difficulties carrying personal and professional life together now?

    Currently working at Wadia Ghandy & Co., I’d say I have been working under a very experienced team where I have been learning the practical nuances of Law. Presently, I work in the Banking and Finance Department under Ms. Shabnam Kajiji, who has had years of experience in Banking and Finance Sector. My working hours normally begin from 10 in the morning and may stretch up to late at night, depending upon the work allotted and the reporting deadlines.

    With respect to maintaining balance, I’d say we are all aware of the fact that in order to achieve something in life you have never had, you must be willing to do something you have never done which includes sacrificing personal life at times. Straight roads do not make skillful drivers. Working in a law firm is a challenging task and that’s what lets you grow and overcome them. Despite the long working hours which I may succumb to “occasionally”, I do have the sufficient breaks which let me enjoy my life too. And as they say, If you love what you do, you’ll never have to work a day in your life. Keeping the broad ideologies intact, I make sure I keep learning during my work and improving myself day to day, in order to reach where I intend to.

    Considering the nature and importance of this profession what according to you should be the focus of the law students at the Law Schools? What are the important factors which students should keep in mind while building their potential career graphs?

    Having seen and experienced the different facets of law, the focus of law students primarily should be towards seeing them grow. Experiencing and participating in different activities, indulging into healthy discussions and making sure that you are not only changing your CV to suit the firm needs, but changing yourself in a positive manner too is an integral factor which every law student should keep in mind. Additionally, what is of utmost importance is to realize the need to not only learn things by heart but to solve a complex situation by the practical application of law.

    For building potential career graphs, there is no straight jacket formula to be followed upon by every law student. Every student has their own understanding, working patterns and their future goals. For people focused towards corporate, every law student shall develop his knowledge towards corporate laws, read up on corporate issues and should maintain a decent CV containing good Academic Credentials, Moot Certifications, Paper Publications, Internship Experiences to name a few, depending upon an individual’s interest and priorities.

    Law school is an amazing time period where you have five years to read upon laws you have never done, participate in varied activities, get out of your comfort zone, work hard, trust yourself and chase your dreams. Dreams don’t work unless you do. In addition, every law student shall keep in mind the desire to chase the vision, not the money. The money will end up following if you have had the proper vision and worked on them accordingly.

    In the end, what would be your 3 biggest pieces of advices for the students as well as fresh graduates who are all set to begin their professional lives soon?

    My biggest advice for people who strive to set their foot into law firms or to the legal profession in general are the following. Firstly, don’t let the desire to learn end! Intelligence without ambition is like a bird without wings. Yes, you read that right. Many graduates often have that tendency to consider themselves at the epitome of success such that they inhibiting within their minds the practical knowledge that should come forth. For a lawyer, I’d say the road to learning is never ending. The farther you go, the better off you’ll be. Secondly, Think before you speak, read before you think. Recruiters have ‘experience’ and know how to analyze your knowledge within the ambit of law. For everybody applying for jobs, bluffing is not really an option. Make sure you have read upon the basics well and your answer should match what the recruiter seeks to ask and the rest shall be history.  Thirdly, Learn, Discover and Explore. Do not restrict yourself. There are various options emerging after you graduate. And as they say, do not blindly follow the Masses. Sometimes, the M is silent. Choose the one where you can deliver the best, carve a niche for yourself and prosper.

  • Ankita Ray, Senior Associate, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building a career in Corporate Law

    Ankita Ray, Senior Associate, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on building a career in Corporate Law

    Ankita Ray graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2010. With excellent legal and soft skills, a profound love for the written word and a series of successful internships, after graduating she pursued a corporate law practice for a few years with J. Sagar Associates. She is now a Senior Associate in Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas.

    In this interview, she shares her insights on:

    • Interests and gravitating towards law and university life.
    • Decisions in college – extra-curricular activities and maintaining a good academic record.
    • Interning – how she chose her internships and the differential internship experiences in India and in Singapore.
    • Working at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas and the changes that being a senior associate brings.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a senior associate with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, working out of their Mumbai office. I was in the Bangalore offices of Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh A. Shroff & Co. for a period of 2 years, before relocating to Mumbai. I started my professional life with JSA, Bangalore, after graduating from Symbiosis Law School in 2010.

     

    Tell us about your life before you joined college. Where did your interests lie as school student?

    My father’s transferable job took me across various cities and towns in India, and through 8 schools! This meant recreating a new social circle and inculcating aspects of new cultures every few years, if not months. I have always been interested in the written word and would probably have studied literature, if law had not happened. While in school, debating and mock parliaments were my favourite extra-curricular activities and I bagged a few laurels representing my school in various competitions. It is a plus that both these interests come in handy as a professional lawyer.

     

    What made you gravitate towards law?

    What made me gravitate towards law – this is an interesting one! I had the opportunity to be a part of the Indian contingent to the International Schools Olympiad held in Karachi, Pakistan, in 2004. Organised by The Telegraph in Schools, our journey to Karachi was much more than a competition, and was dubbed a peace mission: ‘Bonding Beyond Borders’. While I cannot say enough about the exhilarating experience that it was at various levels, this was the first time I had exposure to interesting discussions on various legal issues across borders, especially on international law. This piqued my interest in the legal field. Later that year, while deciding on which field to select for my graduate studies, I knew that I wanted to study law.

     

    What extra-curricular activities did you participate in while in university? What do you think is the importance of moot competitions, mediation competitions and debates in aiding the overall development of a law student?

    ankita-ray-4My approach towards engaging in any form of extra/co-curricular activity is geared towards expanding my limits and gaining new experiences. Given that, personally, I do not think one kind of activity can be more important than the other. However, it is best to take a shot at every possible opportunity before deciding what you would like to be regular at. Moots etc. are definitely helpful in getting your research and speaking skills in place or to evaluate yourself in those areas. While it is important to move out of your comfort zone, it is also important to try to understand what you identify with.

    The first couple of years in college, I was into debating (and won the best team in debating in Mood Indigo and a Rotary Club debate). Thereafter, having interned in law firms by then, I realised the importance of having adequate drafting skills. Further, I realised I enjoyed the entire process of researching and putting it down on paper in the form of an article. I won the national first prize for an essay on cyber crimes, in a competition organised by Competition Success Review, in 2013 and a couple of articles also got published in Manupatra.

     

    How important is a CGPA for recruiters to assess students? How did you maintain a balance between a good academic record at university and your extracurricular activities?

    Let’s put it this way: for the purposes of campus recruitment, CGPA is one way for recruiters to shortlist from a large number of students. Also, if one intends to pursue a Masters degree, academic scores will be relevant. Any which way, it never hurts to keep your academic records in good shape.

    It was not very difficult to maintain a balance between a good academic record and extracurricular activities! During our time at Symbiosis Law School, we did not have the concept of weekly assignments and exams (which have been introduced now), which made it a bit easier. However, like in everything, time management is essential – usually keeping a fixed time (even if it is half an hour a day) to devote to your extracurricular activities works well.

     

    ankita-ray-1

    Tell us about your internship experiences. How did you choose your internships? How early did you apply? Are there any things that an applicant must keep in mind?

    Initially, I wanted to test out as many avenues of the legal profession as possible, in order to make an informed decision on which one I would want to follow. Therefore, I interned with an NGO, a senior counsel in the Kolkata High Court, in the legal departments of Vodafone India and ICICI Bank and law firms, in that order. Post my first internship in a law firm (Khaitan & Co., Kolkata) I realised that I would like to work in a law firm environment. Hence, all my internships thereafter were in law firms.

    I applied anywhere between 6 – 9 months in advance. Very often, during an internship, my reporting/mentoring lawyers were kind enough to either get me a follow on internship or refer me to other firms for internships, when requested. Similarly, seniors from college were a great help when it came to getting internships.

    A couple of things that an applicant for internships must be careful about, even before actually joining an internship, is their application email (which should be without any grammatical or spelling errors and customised) and their resume (which should not be very long). Following up after sending an email requesting for an internship opportunity is another important matter.

     

    You interned at reputed firms in India as well as a firm in Singapore. How was the internship experience different? What did you gain from the experience?

    I was lucky to get an opportunity to experience the workings of a foreign law firm during my stint at Drew & Napier in Singapore, which added another dimension to the entire internship experience. The chance to examine the laws and experience the workings of the judicial process of a different jurisdiction was a fruitful experience. Meeting lawyers and co-interns from Singapore and other countries like Australia, France etc., having discussions on comparative aspects of laws from our respective countries was truly enriching.

     

    You joined JSA after graduation. Tell us about your experience at the firm and the work profile you were entrusted with.

    Like all firsts, my tenure at the Bangalore offices of JSA (where I began my career from), is memorable in many ways. I got an interesting mix of work there, ranging from technology law (this was in 2011, when the privacy rules were enforced) to transactional matters.

    Since I hear a lot of complaints from juniors about doing due diligences, one thing I would specifically like to mention here is that in my first year of work, I also did a lot of due diligence exercises. Contrary to popular belief, due diligence exercises were a great learning experience since they exposed me to the entire gamut of laws that may be applicable and a range of different sectors.

     

    You have now been made senior associate. How different is the work from being an associate and what challenges have you had to deal with since?

    ankita-ray-2At the Senior Associate level, you need to be thorough with your field of law. You are expected to have ready answers which are legally sound and which can be implemented in practice. It is also essential to develop skills (both, legal and soft skills) to handle clients on your own and maintain an ongoing relationship with them.

    In terms of work, there is a shift from taking the first crack at a document to reviewing a first draft worked upon by a junior. In this regard, there is also a role of mentorship that you play in your own small way.

    Additionally, you are increasingly aware of the business side of law practice – invoicing and revenue generation, networking to generate more work etc.

     

    Apart from corporate/commercial matters, you now handle a lot of labour and employment matters. Could you give our readers a glimpse into what the area deals with for those interested and the type of matters one may expect to deal with?

    Previously, employment and labour laws were pertinent more from the perspective of protection of blue-collared workers. However, with increasing interest in India as a destination for foreign investment, finer issues in this field of law have arisen. Hence, employment law practice has now assumed greater significance, with many law firms recognising it as a separate, albeit upcoming practice area.

    In terms of work, there are primarily four buckets one may consider: The first being employment advisory which covers complex issues of trade union strategy, high profile terminations, large scale downsizing and retrenchments in all sectors, sexual harassment complaints, as well as routine matters such as employee handbooks, appointment letters etc.

    The second bucket of work is transactional – conducting human resources due diligence, employee movement, transfer of employee benefits, recognising employment related risks in different types of transactions, whether business transfer or share acquisitions.

    The third bucket of work is contentious matters such as wrongful terminations, internal investigations, disciplinary procedures, sexual harassment complaints and includes representations before the labour commissioner.

    The fourth bucket is compliance – where we conduct employment health checks for companies and assist in identifying risks and advice on best practices.

    The practice of employment laws is interesting and challenging given the human element involved in every situation – no two people react in the same way and often each situation we advise on throws up different issues, which are often time sensitive and have to be dealt with. Therefore, it involves thinking on your feet, where you have to complement your legal knowledge with a practical approach towards the issue at hand. With regard to the kind of work one can expect, there are no two days which are similar! And that is what makes this practice area invigorating!

     

    Finally, what advice would you have for our readers, most of whom are college going students?

    While at law school, try to participate in as many activities as you can, be it moots, debates, mock parliaments. Also, I would emphasise doing as many internships as possible, because there is no alternative to gaining practical experience. However, do enjoy the college days!

     

  • Manisha Chaudhary, Managing Partner, UKCA & Partners, on leading a law firm and Masters from Cornell

    Manisha Chaudhary, Managing Partner, UKCA & Partners, on leading a law firm and Masters from Cornell

    Manisha Chaudhary graduated in law from Amity Law School, Noida. She went on to pursue her LL.M. from Cornell Law School, focusing on corporate laws. She is now the Managing Partner at UKCA and Partners (formerly UKCA Law Chambers).

    In this interview, Manisha discusses:

    • Her childhood experiences that pushed her towards choosing law as a career.
    • Her considerations while choosing the best university to do an LL.M.
    • The methodology she uses to research and write articles
    • Her views on the legal education system in India

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am presently the Managing Partner at UKCA and Partners (formerly UKCA Law Chambers), a law firm founded in the year 1986 by my father, Mr. U. K. Chaudhary, an eminent Senior Advocate. He had to disassociate from the firm when he was designated as a senior and the firm passed on to his juniors.

     

    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life. Was it always your dream to be in legal profession?

    The first question I usually get asked when I meet someone is “So, when did you decide to be a lawyer?” And honestly, my answer usually is “Ummm, I was born to be one!”

    My parents had always encouraged my brother and I to follow our dreams (even if we fell flat on our faces, they were always there to support us). My parents thought that I would take up medicine as a profession, and as a matter of chance I was great at all the science subjects. However, during school, I took keen interest in debating, dramatics, creative writing, the book club, and such related co-curricular activities, which I assumed would help me expand my intellectual abilities. I am sure if Philosophy was a subject in high school, I would have been the first to enrol.  For me, it has always been about gathering information and being fully informed on various subjects, even if it may be of no concern in my life or to me. My closest friends call me Ms. FYI – For your Information! As a child, I would have my parents sign illegible handwritten contracts to make sure I get paid in cash or kind for the chores I had done (which were often repudiated by my mother!). I would sit in my father’s office for hours reading law books at random, which at the time made no coherent sense to me; sibling disputes were handled in the High Court of Mother and I would put across detailed arguments on how I had been wronged and have my brother pay compensation. So far as I remember, I would bolt to our front gate to get the High Court ‘Cause List’ to find my father’s name, read his files and point out the grammatical mistakes (concepts of legal English were lost on me) and organise the office files and Bare Acts. I would strut into his office and take dictation from his juniors and then type it out for them, which they sportingly let me do.

    I truly believe that the inclinations towards the right subjects, an inquisitive attitude towards life, and the constant need to learn and try new things, are inherent qualities of every lawyer and the very fact that I declared myself to be a future ‘financial’ lawyer to all my near and dear ones in the 8th grade did it in for me.

     

    What led you to choose legal profession?

    Whenever someone sought advice from my parents whether one should pursue a career in law, they would categorically say the following:

    1. The profession requires hard work, dedication and perseverance.
    2. You will have to constantly read, study, and keep yourself up-to-date for the rest of your life.
    3. You may have to give work priority over family and friends, and finding a balance will be a challenge every day.
    4. You will always be busy and rushing everywhere.
    5. There is no retirement.

    After hearing this, I was instantly hooked.

     

    Tell us about your experience in Amity law School. What all curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate in?

    Amity Law School, Noida was in its infancy when I joined. There were not many rules and regulations which barred us from enjoying the ‘Delhi University’ style college life. However, within a year or so, everything settled down and Amity became like any other law school, with the added advantage of foreign educated faculty and international level infrastructure. Amity was and is notorious for being elitist and grandiose but lacking in terms of quality education. However, I beg to differ. Amity is much more than scoring marks, preparing for moots and planning to be an associate in a big law firm. It is a wholesome college experience. Since it is one huge campus for all departments, there are many inter-departmental competitions, festivals, sports meets etc. that gives a young student the opportunity to not only learn their subjects but also learn from other streams. While at Amity, I actively participated in intra-class debates, inter-college competitions, essay competitions, a few national level moots, went on court visits, helped organise events etc. I even participated in cricket and volleyball matches! Since every class at Amity was more or less a group discussion, staying on top of the subject was important. Amity truly teaches you how to survive in a cutthroat world and to bring your ‘A game’ at all times.

     

    You hold a masters degree in law from the prestigious Ivy League school Cornell University. How well did your experiences there prepare you for your current responsibilities?

    I aspired to apply only to Ivy League institutions and hence all my efforts in law school and at work were to make sure to have the minimum requirements of marks, moot competitions, publications, work experience, court appearances and professional growth. I worked fulltime for two years because I wanted to have at least a basic knowledge of corporate laws before specialising in the subjects that I accordingly elected. I know that many people prefer to apply for their masters right out of law school, and do exceedingly well. However, I differ on this approach. I believe it is important to gain some work experience prior to applying as it helps you determine what field of law you would like to specialise in. Most of my classmates had previously worked as lawyers or paralegals and it gave me the opportunity to learn from them.

    Cornell is known to be a relatively easy Ivy to get admission into but the most difficult to graduate from. The courses are multi-dimensional and challenging. All the subjects I pursed at Cornell were specialised topics, and were taught by professionals from New York City and seasoned professors. To truly learn, it is important to not just sit in class and take notes, but to actively engage with the professors and lecturers and to pick their brains.  I sincerely think that I would not have been able to truly extract the essence of the courses, if I had no previous work experience in the same field.

    Having experience gave me the ability to compare what I know to what I was learning and hence I could discuss with other students and professors how to grow professionally and overcome the challenges faced at work. The exchange was mutual ofcourse, because I was able to help my classmates understand the Indian legal system and clarify many of their doubts as well. While at Cornell, I gave a lecture on the Indian Constitution and had students and professors attend the same. It was a feeling of humble pride and an ecstatic high. Cornell does not grade its LL.M. students but rather offers “comments” such as Unsatisfactory (meaning that you have to take the course again), Satisfactory, Honours and High Honours. They believe that since master’s students are scholars they cannot be judged, as there is no “right” or “wrong” interpretation of law. This experience of formulating an opinion on a subject of law and having the same appreciated, even if no one agrees with it, genuinely gives one a tremendous sense of achievement.

     

    How should one assess their LL.M. program? What are the key factors to be kept in mind while applying for LL.M. in different universities?

    First, an LL.M. program or college should not be solely evaluated on the rankings given by various news agencies. The statistics are based on a variety of factors, which can be highly manipulated and hence are not the best tool for assessment. Second, it is important to speak to Alumni, who can guide you and offer you the best advice regarding the school and the course. Third, do a comparison of colleges on factors which are important to you. For example, Yale is an excellent law school but I did not think it was a good fit for me because it is more academically inclined and I wished for a college which is more inclined towards the industry. Fourth, consider your long-term goals. Before choosing your college of choice, you need to establish the reasons why you wish to pursue an LL.M., how it will help you achieve your career goals, what are its post qualification prospects, etc. Fifth, thoroughly research the faculty, the class size, internal policies regarding LL.M. students, how courses are allotted etc. Cornell and Yale have an average of 80 persons per LL.M. batch whereas NYU has an average of 400, hence the classes you wish to take may not be available to you. You can best assess an LL.M. course by reading up on it and speaking to the Alumni, who are more than willing to help. Do not be afraid to ask questions, even if they seem condescending, after all, you are spending a huge amount of resources on an LL.M. degree. To apply for an LL.M. course keep the following “Cs” in mind:

    1. Cost– it is very important because an LL.M. does not guarantee you a dream job, and hence it is important to have your funding in place. In case you plan to take loans, then a plan to clear your debts is important.
    2. Course– do a thorough analysis of the subjects offered and whether they are in sync with what you would want to specialise in and the future prospects of the same.
    3. Country– United States of America and the United Kingdom are not the only two countries, which are popular for LL.M. courses. Many students choose to go to Continental Europe or the Middle East to truly expand their horizons in their chosen field of law.

    Once you have these three figured out, the rest is easy. It will all fall in place once you get there and you will make lifelong memories.

     

    Presently you are Managing Partner at UKCA. What falls within the scope of your responsibility?

    Being a Managing Partner of a firm that is constantly growing is full of challenges. We have a very simple internal structure and I am thankful to each of my employees, associates, and partners for helping me execute my vision for the firm. My foremost responsibility is to consolidate the interests of everyone in the firm and make a comprehensive plan for implementation. Being a Managing Partner also puts me in the shoes of a business owner and hence I make monthly goals for my formidable team to work on. Meeting new clients and promoting the firm is my second responsibility and one that I am constantly learning and improving on. My third responsibility is to oversee finances, appraisals and compliances of the firm. I am also involved in administrative aspects of the firm and look into procurements, subscriptions, memberships, disputes etc. However, my most vital responsibility is to each of my clients and hence every document which goes out of my firm is vetted and finalised by me. Though I can blindly trust my principal associates and partners to settle every document, I believe it also my duty to be personally involved in every matter and be available to clients with full attention to details of their transactions and litigations. I attend most court hearings and am always present on deal closings to assist my clients and my associates and partners.

     

    While hiring new lawyers what kind of skills you look for in their CV.

    The portion of any CV that I disregard is what law school the student is from. It is in my experience the worst measure of how good a lawyer is. The skills I am most interested in are work experience and drafting-research. No law firm is looking to hire first year associates for arguments in courts or lead negotiations and close deals. When hiring fresh law graduates, I want to see their results in moot court competition, creative writing skills and their personalities, whether they will be good fit for the firm and whether they have what it takes to survive long hours and hard work. The next portion to get my attention is usually grades as that can be a decent marker of your basic knowledge and learning skills. I then focus on languages and diversity the person may bring to the firm. If you pass these three criteria, you will be invited for an interview. A job at my law firm depends on the interview with the partners and other assignments which we will ask you to undertake.

     

    You hold certificate in Corporate Law and Governance from the renowned London School of Economics and Political Science, United Kingdom. How far are these certificate courses helpful? Tell us about the experience.

    Certificate courses, if used as a tool for continuing education, can be of great significance in the field of law one specialises in. Certified courses abroad can be in the form of summer school or standalone courses depending on what time of the year you apply. It is a great learning experience apart from being a mini vacation where you make new friends from various countries and different walks of life. In my LSE class, we had finance graduates, lawyers, CEOs, directors of companies, accountants, economists etc. The class was engaging and helped us get a sneak peak of problems faced by professionals in many countries and how we could learn from each other’s experiences. Certificate courses as a supplement to further your knowledge are a great tool and I would suggest a refresher ever so often, whether in India or abroad.

     

    You are an avid writer and have published various articles. How would you advise students to go about their careers with respect to research and writing, publishing grade academic papers?

    I consider publications to be an integral part of a student’s education and a lawyer’s career. Be it writing books, articles, presentations, or even comments on various blogs; it helps hone their research and writing skills. Every student or young lawyer should follow a systematic approach in their own way to writing articles, which will help to get the articles published. Also try to collaborate with seniors or other co-authors to write books, columns, blogs etc. The more publications you have, the greater the impression that you have what it takes to be a scholar or an expert. All colleges prefer students who have published work as it helps them gauge a person’s intellect to a certain level.

    I have written many articles (published and otherwise), prepared presentations for clients, prepared lectures to deliver at seminars for both myself and my father, and I have a very specific, stepwise approach to them all. I have to confess that I am truly a Google junkie. My first step is to ‘Google’ all the information on a subject and read as much as I can, both positive and negative comments, articles etc. to thoroughly understand a topic. The next step in my research is usually news articles available on the internet, and then I move on to articles and presentations by other professionals. All this helps me in getting a general idea of the topic. From here starts the actual process of research. I then peruse the Bare Acts on the subject to interpret the legislative intent and form my own views and opinion on the sections. Next I read the amendments, rules, circulars, and notifications etc. to make sure that nothing important has been overlooked. I also look up any proposed amendments, which may further help me understand the true intent of the law. I then go on to debate every point with my father. I am lucky to have an expert on corporate laws right at home and since it’s my chosen field of practice, I fully exploit every opportunity, though sometimes I am shown the door! Once I have decided on what my hypothesis on a certain subject is, I go on to read scholarly articles, both Indian and international, to understand how I may or may not differ from others. I also research case laws, which may be applicable or made applicable on my hypothesis of a certain subject. My research is usually complete at this stage and now begins the difficult part to put together all the research into a written form. Once I have written an article, I go through it repeatedly to make sure that there is a gradual flow of information and that is no diversion from the main issue at hand. Before submission, I do a plagiarism check, which points out any flaws my article may have. A few points to be kept it mind before submission are– always source you articles, try to be as original as possible, use precedents and do a proper edit for spellings and grammar.

     

    You have been regular guest lecturer at various law schools. How is the curriculum of a foreign law school different from an Indian one? What changes, if any, would you like to see in Indian legal curriculum?

    It saddens me to say that the Indian curriculum for law schools is very dated and impractical for today’s legal profession. The curriculum has been the same for the last few decades with minor changes and focuses mostly on the theoretical aspects of law, majority of which is not relevant for practice. Though some changes have been introduced such as moot courts, projects, and internships, there is still a vast scope for improvement. The quality of the profession is greatly affected due to lack of quality education. I believe we need a complete overhaul of the subjects being taught at law schools. I also believe that teachers, lecturers and professors have to conduct more clinics to teach students the art of presenting arguments, negotiations, trial advocacy, deal closing, preparing transactional documents etc. This will prepare the students for the profession and greatly improve the quality of lawyers.

    The curriculum at foreign law schools is also theoretical but is limited to only a few subjects. What I admire most about foreign law schools is the focus they have on how to make a student an asset for the profession. They make sure that a student who has graduated knows the profession and only has to start polishing themselves to become an expert. In India the approach is to push you into the profession and have you learn on the job, which is not beneficial for every student. I know so many young lawyers who give up litigation or transactional practice because they cannot deliver the quality of work their seniors expect of them. There is tremendous scope for students to elect subjects, which specialise in a certain area of law, such as laws for technology start-ups, laws for ethical hacking, laws for crowd funding, documentation for leveraged buyouts, preparing IPO documentation, investment banking etc. Such subjects need to be taught to give Indian students a level playing field with their counterparts abroad. We should also encourage inter-disciplinary courses where law students along with management students, bankers, engineering students or business students come together to solve complex transactional issues and learn to work on deals which will require understanding and cooperation between different professions. The Indian legal education system needs a more robust, dynamic and diverse curriculum to be of any use to new age lawyers or else we will be left far behind our global counterparts.

     

    You have also been providing pro bono services to social enterprises and start-ups. What is the source of motivation?

    I have been inclined to work towards certain causes relating to the environment, women and children, which have been close to my heart since high school. I provide free legal aid to social enterprises and start-ups that are working in the same field. If I am not able to help, I connect them with my friends who may be able to do so. I sincerely believe that our country has every resource to become a great nation. However, we lack the collective will to do anything about it. The motivation is to make a difference to the society in order to make it better for us all. Social enterprises and many start-ups, including NGOs are working day in and day out to help those who are less fortunate and I wish to be of some help, to the best of my abilities, in their struggle. If I can help them save legal costs, which could sponsor another tube well, or educate a young child, then why not!

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    I have some very simple advice:

    1. Research like your life depends on it. Do not open your mouth unless you have research to back up you arguments or legal opinion. Try to be informed and updated on a daily basis.
    2. Draft, re-draft and then re-draft again, thinking about each possible consequence of every sentence that you have written. Think not only from your client’s perspective but also from that of the opposition. Be honest and fair to the courts. Do not suppress any document or information.
    3. Be organised at all times. Deadlines have been given for a reason and priorities have to be set.
    4. Do not be disrespectful to juniors, seniors, judges, staff, etc. Maintain decorum in court and in office. Do not get personal, and lay yourself open to perennial criticism.
    5. Be ethical. No client or their money, position, or fame is more important than your allegiance to the profession.
    6. Be loyal to your employer and your clients who took a risk with you and give them your best at all times. However, you deserve to be treated with respect and do not let anyone make you believe otherwise.
    7. Try to learn from your seniors without disturbing them. Keep your ears and eyes open and you will pick up on many tricks of the trade.
    8. Do not try to be Ms. or Mr. Know-It-All. Even seniors with 40 years of experience do not know it all! Do what you are good at and strive to be better with each day.
    9. Bunker down, and do not be afraid to work late nights and long hours. You will reap benefits of your hard work.
    10. Enjoy being a lawyer, and take it as your life’s passion not as a bread earner, It is an admired profession but if you do not love it, leave now else you will always be miserable.
  • Ketan Mukhija, Senior VP at SREI, on role and skill sets required to work in an in-house position

    Ketan Mukhija, Senior VP at SREI, on role and skill sets required to work in an in-house position

    Ketan Mukhija graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad in the year 2007. He has worked in foreign law firms like Jones Day and Herbert Smith. Thereafter, he returned to India and worked with two Indian law firms at responsible positions. At present, he works as the Senior Vice President (Legal) of SREI Infrastructure Finance Limited, one of the largest infrastructure financing firms in India.

    In this interview Ketan talks about:

    • His career trajectory from working in US & UK and then to India
    • Working in an in-house position as a career option for young lawyers
    • Structure of an in-house legal team in a large company
    • Role of an in-house counsel
    • Skillsets required to work in an in-house position

    Click here to read our earlier interview with Ketan.

    Please share with us your journey so far.

    It is has been a fascinating journey so far.

    After graduating from NALSAR, I started working in the western hemisphere and slowly and gradually, moved towards the eastern. I commenced my career with a firm called Jones Day which is an International Law Firm (ILF) based out of the United States, and has multiple offices across the world. I was working as part of the Merger & Acquisitions and Strategic Alliances team there. Thereafter I moved to Herbert Smith Freehills (HSF) in London. I got a dual qualification to practice as a solicitor in England & Wales within the United Kingdom.

    At HSF, I was working with Equity Capital Market Division, and got an excellent opportunity to work on big transactions. I was involved in the acquisition deal of Land Rover and Jaguar by Tata, which was a tremendous experience. While working for HSF, I had also advised Bradford and Bingley, which is UK’s biggest buy-to-let lender. The recession had just set in, so we represented and advised Bradford and Bingley on tracing of capital, drafting of prospectuses and related documentation.

    Thereafter, owing to personal reasons, I had to shift to New Delhi where I worked for a relatively short stint with two firms, Vaish Associates and Luthra & Luthra Law Offices in senior positions. It was a good experience because working for Indian clients was different where the work areas are generaI as far as the corporate area is concerned. In US and UK, we have very focused and super-specialized areas. In Indian firms, you pretty much pick up a generalist experience and set of transactions. Accordingly, the major areas that I worked on included corporate restructuring, PIPE transactions, private equity, banking finance and energy infrastructure. Overall, I got a good all-round experience at both firms following which I got the opportunity to work with SREI Infrastructure Finance Limited as the Sr. Vice President (Legal, Corporate Strategy and Planning).

    SREI Group is one of the largest infrastructure financing conglomerates in India, having assets worth USD3 billion approx under its management and with almost over hundred entities as sister concerns. It is a huge group which is being held and managed under the auspices of the Kanoria Foundation.

    Many young lawyers want to become in-house counsels and are opting to work as in-house counsels directly after law school. How do you see this as a career path?

    There are a few things which we have to bear in mind. There is some form of uniformity and inconsistency in terms of working in law firms. On the other hand, an in-house counsel has to be flexible according to the organization he/she wants to work with. In the M&A division or capital markets division of any other big firm, the type of work is somewhat on similar lines, depending on the transaction at hand. However, each company has a different structure. The philosophy of a company, organization, structural configuration and the hierarchy will be very different from that of a law firm. Before I shed some light on the content side or the method side, a word of advice for people who aspire to be an in-house counsel, they should do some background research on the type of company they want to work for. In the past, companies used to look for a person who had 15-25 years of experience in the same industry. However, that is changing. Young lawyers are being recruited by companies who are creating immense value and changing the traditional setup.

    It is important to note that, as an in-house counsel, you must know that your role will be more than just a legal adviser; you will be given a much-diversified responsibility which may not be strictly legal in nature. Here, the client is your financial team, commercial team and you are not catering to the entire world but ensuring that there is organic or inorganic growth within the organization, and you undertake the roles of a dispute preventor, cost controller and the right business partner in the literal sense. So, you should keep all the aforementioned points in mind before joining a company as an in-house counsel.

    If you want to generalize the structure of an in-house legal team in a  large company, how will you do that?

    With the caveat, that no two organisations have the same structure. I would like to give an example from the structure in the SREI Group. Under SREI Group, for every legal entity, there is a corporate legal and corporate compliance at each level because the regulator mandates these. A listed company needs to comply with several regulations by different regulators. There is constant interaction with Security Exchange Board of India (SEBI), which supervises all major activities of a company. If there is an acquisition or a potential change in the management of a listed company, everything has to be regularly and periodically intimated to SEBI and the stock exchange where the company is listed. Therefore, the compliance divisions ensure the conformity with the regulators and the RBI. The SREI Group is regulated by the RBI as an infrastructure finance company (IFC). So, we have a lot of interaction with the RBI on fairly regular basis. It is crucial to have a compliance division to ensure that we comply with the existing legal and regulatory framework.

    Almost all companies have a risk management team. The risk management team usually takes the form of an internal audit or a legal audit division. As a company with multiple associate/subsidiary entities, it has to ensure that the internal contractual arrangements and shareholding is managed properly, and there exists a system of checks and balances between the various entities at all levels to ensure that you are minimizing risks at every stage. So, the risk management division assumes a lot of importance.

    There is also a corporate legal at each entity level. On a daily basis, in an operative contract division, there are employment contracts, non-disclosure agreements, term sheets, securities documentation, memorandum of understanding and collaboration agreements which the corporate team needs to look at and thoroughly negotiate with the counterparties.

    A financial institution has many recovery matters, possession matters, civil matters, DRT matters, risk management, compliance, internal audit, etc, so it is important to have a robust litigation division.

    Moreover, at the group level, you have a strategy and planning team that drives and co-ordinates with all the aforementioned divisions.  It is the strategy team which drives the processes substantively across these 4-5 teams. The set up is mature in our organization but it varies with every organization, but this is typically what I have seen in Indian multinational corporations.

    What is the role of an in-house counsel in an organisation? How is it different from working in a law firm?

    The role of a general counsel is in the nature of a true business partner who works as a i) preemptive risk mitigator, ii) cost controller for legal expenses and iii) remedy agent in case there is a legal issue. A General Counsel has a role which is similar to a general physician, who would identify the issues in hand and should be able to guide the business functions in a right direction in case of any legal issues, rather than implementing every function himself/ herself.

    It is important to understand what the scope, ambit and role of an in-house counsel look like. There can be various divisions and verticals in the legal department. You have to involve yourself in the strategic decision-making process of the organization and for that, you need to know the legal risks and help streamline the processes within the organization to ensure that the key issues and the legal matters are being monitored and scrutinized. Then you have to take the strategic decisions keeping in mind the philosophy and the interests of the organization. So one of the key things is actual to be in coordination with the management of the company or the business heads of the company to ensure that all the decisions are taken by keeping in mind the legal risk that can potentially arise. You have to work on commercial transactions with external counsels and law firms to help us on an ad-hoc or retainer basis. If you have a defined skill set, you have to wear the business hat and think like a business head and try to create value at each step. It is important that as an in-house counsel, you should have the ability or skillsets required to set up the right structures to achieve a high level of operational efficiency and continuous improvement of organization and business, the methods ensuring incorporation of the best practices, creating awareness, development of functional centres of excellence and the ability to work under pressure. As an in-house counsel, you should be in a position to handle critical issues which are sensistive or confidential in nature. You have to be fully equipped, informed and in a position to handle that. So the idea is to integrate the legal advice with the business requirement and create value for the organisation. A person has to be a generalist, must have good grasping power, has to be flexible because litigation can change colors tomorrow. Working in an in-house role can be very different from working in a law firm. In a law firm, you might work on one area of law throughout your life, but the variety of work in an in-house function is extremely wide. You have to be very flexible and good to learn and grasp so that you can learn about the collaboration between the corporation office and various group companies optimizing the value of the corporate entity.

     

    What are the skills sets required to become an In-House Counsel?

    The skill sets have to be both technical and soft skills. You must have the judicious amalgam of the soft skills as well which is very much required because you will be dealing with very stringent timelines and some unexpected kind of pushbacks. When you are dealing with non-lawyers and people from other departments, you will have to be slightly more versatile and more efficiency oriented to ensure that they understand the tone of your language. It is important that you understand both their business requirement and you convey your legal provisions. This is one of the key skillsets that one must possess if they want to work in an in-house role.

    The organization will go on forever, and no person is indispensable in an organization. So it is important to standardize the procedure and processes in line with the business requirements to ensure efficiency and seamless delivery of advisory legal opinion. It is important to have standard points, or starting points or denominators or basis, wherein the position or philosophy of the company is clearly laid down. Those philosophies guide the operations and decision making over the years. So standardization and uniformization are very important.

    It is also crucial to have the ability to drive the processes, because deriving economic value and savings for the organization by bringing in the subject matter expertise and skill sets can only make meaning when you have a high level of operational efficiency.

    For example, if a company wants to embark on an M&A transaction, the law firms will be doing a set of documentation, the technical team and other teams will be doing their own due diligence and submit their report. Everybody has his or her compartmentalized job of work customized to the transaction. However, as a sole point of contact with all stakeholders, you as an in-house counsel should be able to soak all the information from everyone, give it the right shape and ensure that they mold and cast well in the framework that you want.

    You need to stay updated with the latest changes in the position of law so that you can give the best perspective advice from a commercial perspective to the top management.

    What should be the role of a legal head in case of a regulatory vacuum/ grey areas in law?

    While advising the business verticals to act on areas where there are regulatory vacuum or grey areas, a general counsel has the role to pre-empt the risk in a calculated manner and put the same before the business verticals. However, in cases where the existing legal framework is inadequate or fails to meet the current market scenario, it will be important to put forward the problem with the government agencies, either through industry bodies/ associations like ASSOCHAM or individually. Whenever a new law is proposed, generally the government provides a window period of 60-90 days during which the stakeholders can voice their concerns about the new law. It is important that the problem or concerns are clearly identified and proposed solutions are put forward in such cases. These solutions can be based on industry best practices around the world or based on ground realities or the market sentiments.

    Please give your views about the trend in the Indian companies on having a large in-house legal team.

    The trend is towards having a robust in-house function as well. The mantra of any firm is to increase their revenue and decrease the cost. I think having a robust in-house team works much better for me than hiring a law firm every now and then because that is an expensive affair. If you have a good in-house team, then the cost can be curtailed quickly and to a large extent. Because, when you talk about International Law firms, for a simple agreement they will charge you huge amounts. Now, if you have equipped lawyers who have global exposure and are good negotiators, I think they can play a role both in increasing revenue as well as cost preventers to a colossal extent. It is important to have in-house experts in finance, investment, taxation laws who can form the right opinion. One can take help of external consultants, when the volume is huge or when the work needs to be done at different locations, and it is not possible for the internal team to be present at different places. The idea should be to ensure that the person understands the business because that is where it adds value. Consultants will come as an outsider, but here you know the aspirations and expectations and can lead the best optimal advice. So I think the trend is very encouraging, fruitful and also sinks with the simple market logic. It aligns the incentives and disincentives of the promoters. So it is a market-driven kind of move.

    Is there any other aspect you would like to add on to the discussion?

    The role of a General Counsel or a Senior Corporate Counsel is also that of a behavior analyst of the corporate systems. Now there are so many rules to manage the entire litigation, rules to manage the complete compliance kind of platform, rules to administer the contracts. You have to make use of the technology, behavioral skills, core competencies, evolve right system of checks and balances within the organization, and I think that’s the requisite kind of skill sets. and I can probably end by saying that today’s evolving business scenario in the changing market, the role of a corporate counsel is very meaningful in the sense that they are becoming the true partners of the business unit and the company and, to drive the strategy towards higher growth, development, higher bottom lines and top lines. The role of a General Counsel is critical because he work at every stage with CFO, CIO, CMO, and CTO and acts as the point person for the top management. It is important that he gives the right advice to the top management which would drive the strategy for the company. In today’s scenario the role of a general counsel looks very promising.