Super Lawyer

Tag: Counsel

  • Sagnik Ghose, Counsel, FactSet, on work of an in-house counsel at MNCs

    Sagnik Ghose, Counsel, FactSet, on work of an in-house counsel at MNCs

    Sagnik Ghose is currently an in-house counsel for FactSet India. He graduated from NUJS in 2006. While in college, he has worked with Paras Kuhad Associates, Kolkata and interned at Reliance. After law school, Sagnik was an Assistant Manager at Dr. Reddy’s. Subsequently he has worked at the Chugh Firm, an international tax accounting firm, and IBM.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NUJS
    • The first year after graduation
    • Working at various Law Firms and Companies

     

    How was your life before college? Kindly tell us about you pre-university educational background. Plus, do you have lawyers in your family?

    I haven’t had any lawyers in my family. My dad is a doctor and all my uncles are engineers. Plus, I have grown up in Calcutta, a city rich in art, music and cultural heritage. My mother is a trained classical musician. I, however, never had any exposure to law and the legal profession during my years growing up, and even after joining college, other than whatever exposure I got in college itself. Hence, there was almost no exposure to law during my precollege life.

     

    Did you not aspire to become an engineer, doctor or artist, given your family background? How did you get to know about law as a profession and what motivated you to take up the same as a career?

    Well, I was never really pressurised by my parents to do something that I didn’t have an inclination towards. However, I had very little exposure to and knowledge about the scope and array of things which a lawyer can do, except litigation. As and when I was exploring my career options during the final years of school, NUJS had come up as a new college, not even a year old. The motivation to get through to NUJS and join the legal profession was the fact that the university had been set up by Dr. Madhava Menon, who at that point of time (and even now), was a figure to reckon with. I had a discussion with my father about law as a career option, and he supported me completely. After having made up my mind, I gave the entrance exam a serious shot and became the first person in my family to enter the legal profession.

     

    According to you, what should a person, who hasn’t had the fortune of studying in a top law school, do so as to develop skills required in the legal profession? Do you think that they are at the same standing with NLU students?

    Well, my personal opinion is that a person graduating from a top NLU has that extra edge when it comes to campus placements only. On a close look at the industry, we can see that most of the top rated general counsels, partners or senior partners in law firms or senior law officials are from non-blue-blooded law schools, and have made their way to the top through the more difficult old school way, that is, working hard. It is after litigating for years or advising clients in Companies that they have figured out what the clients need. I think that which law school you graduate from makes little difference. Just like my other passion, cooking, it doesn’t matter which culinary school you pass out from. If after passing out, you put in your best, nothing can stop you from becoming a great chef. Even if you fail to get into an NLU, there is no reason to give up hope on the legal profession. If, after entering the professional field, you work hard and apply yourself correctly, you are guaranteed to be a successful counsel. The flip side is that, if you do graduate from an NLU and get placed in a law firm or a Company, you get to learn a lot more during the initial stint of your career. So, yes, there are both pros and cons, but I would say that studying in a top NLU is just a part of it, but certainly not the entire picture.

     

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    How was law school? How did you go about your academics as well as extra-curricular activities? Were you into mooting?

    For me, the law school experience has been very positive. Having studied at NUJS, I got involved in many activities apart from the mandatory academics. I was a part of the student juridical association for a very long time. I did a bit of intra college moots, but I was not too much into mooting. I had realised that a career in litigation was not for me, and therefore, did not place too much of an emphasis on mooting.

    During my final year of law school, all throughout, I used to study in the first half of the day, and during afternoon I used to work in Paras Kuhad and Associates.I used to help them with small issues and research work and worked on various legal questions with a senior, Kushagra. Apart from other internships, this actually helped me mould my understanding of what actually a client is looking for, why a business lawyer is so much in demand, and what is expected from a business lawyer when he joins a Company in house.

    Apart from this, I also worked with Arjya Bir Majumdar, one of my closest friends from school, to help the WWF in whatever way we could. We actually took time off on a Sunday morning, went down to a market in Chingrihata, found turtles being sold (sale of turtle meat is banned), bought one of the live ones with our pocket money (what with us being students and money being short!), and then went to the Alipore Zoo to release it into the water!All of the above, in addition to the obligatory line of heartbreaks and new girlfriends, soulful music and endless food, hanging out at the movie halls and getting hammered at the local bars. It was an eventful five years!

    Despite them thinking otherwise, students actually have a lot of time, and they should take some time off to go get some valuable guidance under a senior lawyer to figure out what excites him or her the most.

     

    Kindly tell us about you internship at Reliance. Was it then that you decided to become an in-house counsel?

    Well, the Reliance internship was definitely the turning point for me. Before that, I had only worked with law firms and NGOs, but the Reliance internship actually changed everything for me. One, I had never spent so much time, almost three months, outside my city, working, that too in a city like Mumbai, which has such a brilliant work environment and where you get to work with the best of legal and business professionals. So the Reliance internship was an eye-opener on a lot of fronts, since I got to work with many good, solid lawyers, some of whom continue to be my friends even after so long. I got a learn a lot about laws around privacy, intellectual properties, copyrights, business laws, both procurement and sales, trademarks, media, technology, basically every law a lawyer can think of under the TMT business. There were a lot of intricacies that were involved in the Reliance internship. Getting a taste of the work, I decided to extend my internship. An internship is normally for 6-8 weeks, but I did it for almost 12 weeks, because of which I missed college a bit, but it was worth it. I also got a very good stipend at the end of my internship. Plus, I got due recognition for the work I did and also built a good rapport with my seniors. I also gave a couple of compliance presentations. Hence, summing up, I got really healthy work, and it helped me realise that working in a Company is something I can actually do, and contribute positively to the growth of a Company.

     

    Would you say that NUJS prepared you for the real professional world? Were the things that were taught at NUJS relevant to your internships and first year at work?

    Well, the answer to that is yes and no. I feel that some of the courses at that time should have been better tuned in the final year when students are looking to enter the work field. I am saying this because when I started working, I realised that almost three quarters of my time is being spent in working on contracts, which is a subject which was taught in the very first year of law school.

    So I really think that our college should have offered an advanced course on contracts, apart from the courses which were taught to us is our final years, to give students an exposure to various aspects of contract law that they would be dealing with while working. There are complex concepts like change control, confidentiality, data privacy and control, termination, warranties, indemnities, limitation of liabilities and there are various aspects to each of these concepts which one has to deal with while strategizing, understanding and negotiating contracts. I really think that every law school should offer, atleast as optional courses, tools which can equip you to deal with situations where you have to negotiate with more experienced professionals.

    For example, the person on the other side of the table would either be an in-house counsel or an external counsel. So, for an in-house counsel, it becomes very important to be more reasonable and break the ice during negotiations, whereas, for external counsels, you have to test waters and understand his level of aggression (because he has to justify his bills, I have more often faced very aggressive external counsels) and knowledge of his client before you start negotiations. Areas like these, which you learn during your professional experience, should atleast be offered as an optional course.

     

    After graduating from NUJS in 2006, you got to join Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories as an Assistant Manager. How did this happen, and what were your responsibilities?

    After passing out in 2006, Iwas appointed as a management trainee, and I spent about a year in probation before getting appointed as an Assistant Manager. In the first year, I was doing general corporate legal work, and then I moved on to more focused branded formulations work. My primary responsibility was to look at all the branded formulation contracts for all the thirty six countries. That is what I used to do for about a year, before I decided to move on.

     

    Many law students suspect that they would need to know a bit about pharmacy and chemistry if they want to join as an in-house counsel at a place like Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories. Is it true?

    Well, again yes and no. If you are looking to join as a fresher then they’ll not expect you to know much about the pharmaceutical industry, which you’ll have to learn on the job. But, if you are looking to join as an experienced professional, then ofcourse they expect you to know things like what licensing terms and conditions typically are, how much time does it take for a molecule to develop and so on. So yes, if you are joining as a fresher, you are not expected to know these nuances but if you join as a professional, you have to have a strong grip on the basics.

     

    How was your experience working there?

    It was excellent! I had a very good mentor in Mr. Narasimha Das, who was their General Counsel. He taught me the basics, like creating a checklist to be looked at while creating, or marking up agreements, managing time, speaking to clients and managing expectations. He exposed me to the maximum number of agreements, co-development, licensing, confidentiality, distribution, marketing, services, IT services, basically, the works. He literally held me by the hand and taught me how to strategize mark-ups and negotiations, learning body language and identifying signs of closure. I owe a great deal to him!

     

    After your work at Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, you moved on to join an international tax accounting firm, the Chugh Firm. How did the shift take place, and how different was it from working at a pharmaceutical firm?

    The Chugh Firm is an international tax accounting firm. However, I joined their Indian partners, Universal Legal. I was a part of the core corporate legal team where I was helping in incorporation of Companies, post incorporation compliances, assisting in agreement processes and so on. It was very different, since I moved from an in-house counsel to a service oriented role. It was very different in terms of work culture.

    Specifically, in a mid-sized ambitious set up like Universal Legal, if you don’t provide answers to clients as of yesterday, your clients just move on the some other firm, which we could not have allowed to happen! Most of our clients used to be start-ups, who are typically hungry and desperate to succeed. They expected super high turnaround time and high quality of work. The thing with start-ups is, if you start off on a good note with them, and if it clicks, then they will be your clients for life. So I did that for about 3 years, where I learned to advise clients on a variety of legal aspects.

     

    After that, you joined IBM. What does an attorney do at an MNC like IBM? What were your responsibilities?

    In big Companies like IBM, the superstructure is usually broken down into wings dedicated for specific purposes. I was appointed at IBM as a deal lawyer for Global Business Services, which is their consultancy business. Basically, I used to negotiate on behalf of IBM from the legal perspective and help close deals for IBM. I used to work closely with sales, taxation, business, solutions and software teams for helping to take calls on questions of liability, protection, tax implications and so on. My time in IBM was very enjoyable, and this is the place which taught me how big Companies manage work efficiently in spite of their bulk and reach. A shout out here to Ajay Dua, who heads the legal function in IBM India for helping me out on multiple occasions with easy, workable solutions to complex problems. He has been an excellent mentor!

     

    At all the three places you worked, was the work similar or did you have to learn new skills every time you joined a new place?

    Well, some basic things like principles of contracts, litigation processes, HR policies etc., have to be the same, because the underlying laws are the same. The important change is whom you are working for. For example, working with Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, you have to think from a global MNC perspective, and the effect on the position of an MNC dealing with pharmaceuticals. When you are dealing with something like pharmaceuticals, the liability is much greater, since human life is involved. One has to exercise extreme amounts of caution when you take on certain liabilities. But when you work with an IT giant like IBM, the life threatening aspect goes off the table.

    However, that doesn’t mean that there is any less liability. In a Company like IBM, you are dealing with large nationalised banks, which perform transactions worth millions of dollars in a single cycle. Accuracy and speed are tantamount to such transactions, and therefore, the liability is no less here.The heads of risk might differ but the risk of doing business is always present. One needs to figure out which risk is acceptable and which risk is absolutely non-acceptable in that particular industry. So there is this learning curve which you go through when you enter any work culture or a firm or a Company, and that is the learning curve you need to adapt to, and once that is done, things easily fall into place. So all the places where I have worked have been extremely different but equally rewarding and enriching as far as my understanding of different workplaces go.

     

    What are the highlights of your career till joining FactSet? How did you decide to leave IBM and join FactSet?

    FactSet has been around for a good 36 years now, and is a global leader in the field of financial information analytics, intelligence and solutions. I decided to leave IBM primarily because at IBM I was doing very high level of work, but I was doing only one kind of work, that is contracts and negotiations. I had no reason to complain, this is how any big Company functions, since efficiency is of paramount importance. After having worked with IBM for three years, the next logical step I could take was to expand my field of work in order to move up. I was looking for an opportunity where I could deal with not just contracts but also corporate matters, administrative matters, general government regulatory mechanisms, compliance matters and the entire gamut of general in house counsel queries, including sales. As a counsel for FactSet, that is just what I do, and it is brilliant working here!

    At FactSet, I have a dual role. One, I provide advice to my internal clients with regard to a number of matters, like contracts, real estate, labour, compliance, government regulations, negotiations and so on. This is at a local level. At the global level,I work a lot with the global team with regard to contract negotiations and deal making. If anybody is looking to move in an MNC which gives dual responsibility, they can expect a kind of work in which they’ll have to work at both local and global levels.

     

    Does your current role at FactSet involve any amount of data crunching?

    No, that is done by the operations team, just like at Dr. Reddy’s, a lawyer is not expected to develop molecules! I am the legal counsel for FactSet. As a legal counsel, you need to understand how the different wings of the Company work in tandem, what risks your Company can or cannot take, how flexible you can be for contract negotiations, which factors should influence your judgment of risks and so on.

     

    Do you have any vacancies for legal interns at FactSet?

    We do not have a permanent internship facility at FactSet. Normally, legal interns are taken for two reasons.

    One, they learn about FactSet and what sort of issues/ concerns come up in a global Company. That is the short term internship, which is for a month or so, which most Companies are open to.

    Secondly, there are long term internships to hunt for a good prospective employee. Currently, we aren’t really pursuing the second kind of aspect since all the positions are full but if somebody wants a shot term internship, then probably we can give it a thought.

     

    What do you think of higher studies as a career strategy? Do you plan to go for higher studies?

    I don’t, but then a couple of years ago I was thinking of an MBA, purely because I was interested in management, setting up a legal team and helping a Company to grow. So I would say that it’s a good idea to work for some years at different places, maybe a combination of Companies and law firms, and figure out what you are actually interested in. At that point of time, one can figure out what kind of higher studies you want to go in for, be it LL.M, MBA or anything. So it entirely depends upon a person. I have a very neutral stance with regard to higher studies, since I have seen many students studying advanced courses but still not making a mark in the market and some who havea simple law degree doing a wonderful job. So it completely depends on the person.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    My opinion is to never specialise early on in your career, especially when you are in law school. That is because when you specialise, you start leaving out on some other spheres of law. Always explore the field. One should know about all the options that are available. There are so many avenues which a lawyer can go into these days, and the scope of work which a law student can do now is phenomenal. Never specialise in your last year of law school or your first year in a job. Just keep on generalising and growing on general strengths. Once you have done that, in around 8-10 years, you can know in what area you really want to go forward, if at all, and then you can specialise.

     

    What is your advice to law students who want to build a great legal work profile?

    A couple of them. One, you need to be a generalist at the start of your career. This comes with a disclaimer, that if you have a lawyer in your family and you at an early stage know what you want to do, it is a different ballgame. But when you don’t have that advantage, you should be a generalist at the start, and you should then build your profile with regard to being a general lawyer who is good at researching and understands the law of the land. It’s not just the work profile as far as going to office and advising your clients is concerned. You should be the scholar who a person on the road can have the confidence of approaching with a legal query and expect a well-structured, solid answer.

    Second, understand what your client wants. Always listen carefully to what your clients are saying, understand their needs and then respond. You don’t need to respond right away, but don’t give them a wrong response.

    Be very careful, since people automatically assume that being a law graduate, you are an expert in all laws. Hence, you need to be extremely careful with the advice you are dispensing. If you have read Kafka, you would be able to draw parallels between law and a big black house in a dream. You turn a corner, and all the roads look the same. It is scary for an outsider. Lawyers are supposed to be the friends, figure out the dream and help their clients. Law is as dangerous a field as medicine. So the amount of trust you place in your doctor, if the same amount of trust your client can place in you, then you are going to make it big, and there is no stopping you.

  • Jyoti Shekhar, Senior Associate, Legasis Partners on LL.M from Deakin University and work experience in Corporate Law

    Jyoti Shekhar, Senior Associate, Legasis Partners on LL.M from Deakin University and work experience in Corporate Law

    Jyoti Shekar is currently working as a Senior Associate at Legasis Partners, Delhi. She graduated with a B.S.L.LL.B degree from ILS Law College, Pune in 2007. Thereafter she started working at Mindcrest India Pvt Ltd. as a Legal Analyst. She then went on to pursue Masters in Commercial laws from Deakin University, Australia and has thereafter worked with OSC Export Services Pvt. Ltd. and Sahara India.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at ILS, Pune and Deakin, Melbourne
    • Work experience at OSC Export Services Pvt. Ltd. and Sahara India
    • Work as Senior Associate at Legasis Partners

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Please tell us a bit about how you gravitated towards law.

    Usually, I just introduce myself as a lawyer. I really do take pride in being a part of this industry, however small. Right from my childhood, I have always wanted to do law. Perhaps it had something to do with people telling me to be a lawyer due to my talkative and argumentative behaviour, or perhaps some impression left on me by a very illustrious Supreme Court Judge who was a distant relative and used to tell me stories. Honestly, I don’t know. But I do know that I never had a moment’s doubt about being a lawyer and yes, I still just introduce myself as a lawyer.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at ILS Law College, Pune. How were you at academics?

    My college life was a lot of fun and a lot of hard work too. I was always a topper during my school days. In fact, my school refused to let me elect commerce in high school. Only after I threatened to quit the school, they reluctantly allowed me to take commerce. But I thoroughly enjoyed accountancy and business studies. I started pursuing the C.A. course along with my LL.B. That’s what kept me busy throughout college life. But I didn’t finish CA after all. But honestly, like any college student does, studying law was a last minute preparation for me, cramming all night and sacrificing sleep. I got average grades but I did have my share of fun in college.

     

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    How important would you say good grades are for an illustrious career in legal?

    Honestly, as a student, marks and percentages mean the world to us. However, to be honest, I believe that experiencing the practical world with different kinds of people, different cultures, behaviours etc. is more important in the real world. Of course, a good grade point average is important to get into good schools for further education and to make your CV look better. But honestly, after your first job, the interviews are more about how you handle people and situations. Book knowledge is something you can always refer to, but living in the practical world and dealing with colleagues, bosses and clients is the key. I guess what I am trying to say is that although a good grade is wonderful, but it shouldn’t be your entire focus.

     

    How do you think internships are beneficial to law students?

    I think the best way to learn is to practice. Internships are the best source of knowledge. Looking back, I do wish I had done more internships in college. However, internships should not be just about getting certificates. To get a headstart, try to be inquisitive and learn the knack of research, reading a contract, drafting an email, observing in meetings and courts etc.

     

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    Thereafter, you went to pursue Masters in Commercial Law from Deakin University. How would you describe your experience? What motivated you to go in for the same?

    I had an amazing experience during my masters. Actually, after finishing LL.B, I wanted a good job with a good salary. However, my father encouraged me to think long term. He told me that a good qualification will open up opportunities I couldn’t comprehend at that time. And he also said studying in a different country would expose me to different learning methods and will be a life experience. And he was right. I somehow found the courage to go ahead with the LLM plan and even felt excited by the prospect of experiencing a very different culture and academic system. That’s when the idea of going to Australia hit me. And it turned out to be the best decision of my life. When I went there, I did not know anybody in the country. Everything was completely new and different. I slowly learnt to speak their way, I worked in a grocery store, worked in their deli (and I am a strict vegetarian!!), I learnt their way of studying. We did not have exams, we only had research papers instead, lots of them. It was a whole different approach for me. I also learnt to be among people of different cultures and traditions – Australians, Chinese, Sri Lankans, and Europeans. It was very enriching. I am still active with the university’s alumni association in India. They have a lot of business networking events and activities.

     

    Do you think it makes sense for students to go overseas to study law when they want to practice in India?

    There was actually a time when a foreign degree looked good on CVs and that is partly why I went abroad. But as I mentioned above, it became more of a life experience for me. And another plus is that I learnt a lot about research and writing methods. Now actually, when people ask me this question, I really don’t know how to respond, since our academic system has also improved a lot and I feel it is a personal choice rather than a mandate.

     

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    After coming back to India, you joined OSC Export Services Pvt. Ltd. as a Consultant. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there?

    I simply applied to their vacancy ad. They had a series of written tests which I cleared. Of course, it was quite prestigious for me to start working there after my studies due to its association with Clifford Chance LLP. I got an opportunity to work in Clifford Chance London and New York offices which exposed me to international transactions and practices.

     

    Thereafter you joined Sahara India as Manager Legal – Corporate Finance. What led to this shift? What kind of challenges did you face during this job?

    Though I was doing quite well in my current job at the time, I wanted to get some in-house experience, which is what I wanted out of my career then – to be an in-house counsel. When the Sahara opportunity came along, I grabbed it, especially because it required me to be in the finance department, which was fast becoming my forte. Even in Clifford Chance, I was associated with their Banking and Finance department. It turned to be an amazing sea of experience with wonderful projects. Each of us lawyers had to deal with our projects independently. I loved every minute of it. The challenges were plenty; I had to pilot transactions right from proposal stage to post closing stage, of course with the assistance of external counsels, especially in other jurisdictions. We reported to the Corporate Finance Head, who had a surprisingly good grasp of legalese. It provided me with a lot of learning and knowledge.

     

    Currently, you work as a Senior Associate at Legasis Partners. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    Well, the Managing Partner of Legasis Partners, Mr. Suhas Tuljapurkar, is my absolute role model in this profession. I had interned with him in Mumbai and also worked with him in Pune at the beginning of my career. I jumped at the chance of working with him again in Delhi when the opportunity presented itself. I was planning my exit from Sahara and everything just fell into place.

     

    What kind of work and responsibilities do Senior Associates at Legasis Partners deal with?

    In Legasis Partners, we are given the opportunity to develop ourselves as professionals as per our interests and skill sets. Here, we do not believe in designations and everybody pitches in to help achieve the common objective of growth. It gives me an opportunity to be independent and learn to take decisions and also to explore various ways in which I can be useful to the organization and hence to my own self as a well rounded professional.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    Well, a parent is equally proud of all their children. Every project I have done so far, be it small or big or high profile, has made me learn new things.

    To answer the second part of your question, in any transaction, homework is the key. I need to know the entire background before starting a project. And I never hesitate to ask questions, even at the risk of sounding ridiculous. If I have a doubt in my mind, then I cannot do a convincing job.

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? How challenging is life as a corporate lawyer?

    Corporate law has developed a lot in the past few years. With the new Companies Act in force, there are lots of stringent regulations which necessitate having a strong in-house team in every company. Corporate lawyers can either be in-house or work in law firms. There is no formula for being a successful corporate lawyer, though I personally believe that grasp of legal and contractual language is very crucial to this role. Also important is your negotiation skills which comes with experience. It is also important to understand the business and commercial aspects of the transaction to be valuable to your company/clients.

    Being a transactional lawyer, life can be very hectic while a transaction is in progress. Once I had taken my laptop along on my birthday dinner! But it can be quite exciting at certain times and routine at others.

     

    What are the other related fields where a corporate lawyer can try hand apart from joining law firms and corporate houses?

    There are LPOs for those who like a little more regular timings and good salaries. However, these days, this depends on projects and deadlines too. Legal journalism is another interesting option. We need a lot of good law professors in different subjects. Then there are research related profiles in legal search engine companies. There are law publishing houses for those whose tastes are literary. People now are specializing in areas like legal recruitments, business development for law firms etc. I have just mentioned a few, there are lots more out there waiting to be explored and discovered.

     

    What do you cherish most about the experience you’ve had over the past two years?

    I have cherished every stage of my career. I interned with law firms and CA firms. I worked in LPOs. I worked as in-house counsel. I work in a law firm now. Every place has taught me a new perspective in which to look at the law and a new way in which to deal with people and situations.

     

    What are your plans from here on?

    I love doing different things, learning new areas and doing what I love to do. I am initiating myself in giving lectures also, whenever I can spare the time. Let’s see what the future holds. 🙂

     

  • Tulika Srivastava, Senior Manager – Legal, at L’Oréal, on law school and building a career after graduation

    Tulika Srivastava, Senior Manager – Legal, at L’Oréal, on law school and building a career after graduation

    Tulika Srivastava graduated from Amity Law School in 2005 and had thereafter worked with Crawford Bayley & Co., DSK Legal and Nicholas Piramal India Ltd. She currently works as Senior Manager – Legal at L’Oreal India Private Limited.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at Amity Law School
    • Work at Crawford Bayley, DSK Legal and Nicholas Piramal
    • Current work profile of Senior Manager – Legal at L’Oréal

     

    What inspired you to study Law? How did you get through to Amity Law School?

    Back in 2000, when I passed out of school, I was at that juncture of my life (which every confused and aspiring teenager goes through) where I didn’t know where to head. However, luckily for me, I got the much needed guidance from my school and parents who helped me realise where my true interest lay. I took a conscious decision based on the subjects of my interest back then and, therefore, it only made sense for me to pursue a career in the field of law.

    I had to take an entrance test to get into Amity. This was 15 years ago and a lot has changed since then, including the admission process.

     

    Tell us about your law school journey from the 1st year till your final year. As a law student which extra activities did you participate in? How important are these co-curricular activities?

    We were the second batch of Amity Law School, and that allowed us to gain exposure in an array of fields. There were no precedents to follow and that only worked in our favour – as we were learning through experimentation and from our own mistakes. We had a sound internal faculty and considering our location and the proximity to the Apex Court of India, we also had a host of legal luminaries as visiting faculty.

    While I was a part of the Internal Moot Court Committee, I also led the Dramatics Society at the same time and won many accolades for my College. Co-Curricular and other activities help you develop an all-round personality, improve your interpersonal skills and also boost your self-confidence. Moreover, law school journey is not an easy one – activities apart from your regular curriculum, therefore, help you refresh the burdened mind as well.

     

    How should one go about the internships? How important it is for a law student to plan out the course of his internships to successfully gain from the internship experience?

    Internship ‘planning’ can be very unique to each individual depending largely on his/her aspirations. It could be a straight jacketed single stream internship pattern or you could chose to get flavours of various fields. There are pros and cons of both. Whichever method you chose, make sure your internships help you design your career path eventually – whether it’s in corporate, litigation or academia.

    The importance of Internships lies in a simple known fact that Law cannot be taught or learnt merely from textbooks. You have to know the applicability and the consequence of each and every act, rules, sections you learn. This is where internships play a vital role, which gives you a real life practice experience while you are in law school. In fact, at times, internships may also give students an opportunity to learn subjects which may not be a part of their curriculum at law school.

    Primarily, as a law student, you will find yourself spending a lot of time in the library (which also includes legal web portals now) doing researches on diverse subjects. So do not expect much more than that in your first few internships. Subsequently, in finalyears of law college, you may be given opportunities to assist the associates in legal writing as well. Do not fret if you do not master the flair of drafting during your short internship periods, because “drafting” is one skill which requires constant polishing and honing. Make the most of your internships, grab as much as you can, do not be afraid to ask questions, because once you are a law graduate you will be expected to have answers to all those questions.

     

    Would you say the ‘NLU’ branding helps its students?

    Yes it is true to a certain extent in my opinion. NLU is a fantastic brand to have on your profile, which will definitely ensure you get the best break in this profession. But at the end of the day, your merits and hard work do play a significant role which take you places.

     

    After graduating you joined Crawford Bayley & Co. as an Associate Trainee. How did the appointment take place? What did your work profile consist of as an Associate Trainee?

    I landed in Mumbai right after I passed out of the Law College, without any leads or contacts, and without any exposure in the Mumbai legal circle. The primary task for me was to chalk out my first Five Year Plan. From the past experiences gathered during my varied internships, I had a fair clue where I was headed. I knew it was imperative for me to start with litigation so as to understand the basics, thereafter broaden my horizon by acquiring knowledge in different streams of law and eventually settle down as an in-house counsel. I, hence, sent my application to a few leading firms specialized in litigation. I got a call back from Crawford Bayley & Co. and an interview meeting was set up with a Senior Partner, pursuant to which I was recruited as an Advocate Trainee in the field of civil and corporate litigation. This was the best start I could hope for because this experience not only helped me create a very strong foundation but also gave me an in-depth knowledge about the City Civil Court and Bombay High Court functioning, its procedures, departments, etc.

     

    Thereafter you left Crawford Bayley& Co. and had joined DSK Legal. What led to this shift? How was your experience working there?

    I was working towards my set target. The second step now was to acquire exposure and knowledge in diverse fields of law. DSK Legal offered exactly that and was, hence, a natural progression for me.

    While I had joined DSK as an Associate in the Litigation Team of the Firm, I was fortunate enough to be able to undertake a wide variety of tasks ranging from Capital Markets, Equity as well as Debt. I found myself exposed to multiple streams, so it was a little intellectually challenging but at the same time extremely gratifying and rewarding. Each transaction and each matter was full of new experiences and opportunities. All in all, I can say that DSK Legal provided me a well-rounded experience.

     

    You thereafter left DSK Legal to start working at Nicholas Piramal India Ltd. as Legal Manager. What did this shift happen? What does Nicholas Piramal do and what was the nature of your work there?

    A move like this was scheduled for a little later in my scheme of timelines. However, I didn’t mind when then this opportunity came my way, as it was a part of the bigger game plan in any case. “Sooner the better” I thought and jumped right in when I got an offer to work for the Indian Pharmaceutical giant Piramal Healthcare Limited (erstwhile Nicholas Piramal India Ltd.).

    My work there was a mixed bouquet, which comprised of everything I had learnt till then and much more. I was responsible for end to end legal requirements of the business divisions I was handling, right from litigation, to business and brand acquisition, to intellectual property protection and of course, contract negotiation, drafting and management. The whole transition of switching from a practicing lawyer to an in-house counsel was not as easy as it seemed back then. It was not just a change of job, it was a change in the whole outlook, accountability and orientation as a legal practitioner.

     

    You are currently working at L’Oréal India Private Limited as Senior Manager – Legal. How did the switch from Nicholas take place?

    Learning is constant – that’s the basic premise for a successful lawyer. After 4 years at Piramal, it only made sense to change my industry in order to maintain my learning graph. L’Oréal gave me an opportunity to use my existing skills and apply the same in a different environment. More importantly it offered acquiring new skill sets essential for a corporate lawyer. I was contacted for a preliminary interview which was followed by several discussions with and within the senior management at L’Oréal and which ultimately got me on board.

     

    How is a typical workday like?

    L’Oréal is an atypical workplace. It has elements of erraticism due to its young and dynamic yet very structured nature. There is not a single day which is same as any previous day, and that is what maintains the freshness and keeps me going. However, broadly, a regular workday at L’Oréal for me includes co-ordinating with my Business Divisions in order to close their open issues and contracts, advising them on general legal queries from time to time, ensuring compliance and risk mitigation.

     

    What is your take on the debate of Corporate Practice v. Litigation?

    It has always been a big debate amongst young lawyers – Corporate practice vs. Litigation practice? I am from the school of thought which believes that Litigation is where all the groundwork lies. That’s the reason I started my career with a stint at Crawford Bayley, which gave me a sound experience in the field of civil litigation in Mumbai. I reiterate that this route is an effective way of ensuring a very robust foundation and is an important facet of a career in law. Litigation gives you a huge breadth of areas to work on and learn from. You get to research and innovate strategies in varied fields of law.

    That being said, Corporate definitely increases your in-house marketability. In most companies, there’s more need for corporate activities such as securities filings, corporate governance, contract negotiation and management, etc. Moreover, with the growing number of skilled and expert lawyers, companies are more likely to keep their work “in-house” on the corporate side. If you are irresolute about which area you enjoy more, corporate will definitely provide you more careers options but comes with a bit more risk.

    It is always sensible to choose an area of practice that you are passionate about, where “passionate” is the key word.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    I am a decade old lawyer today, and my appetite for learning the novelty and unknown is only increasing. Abide by “Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish” – it will take you a long way.

  • Saurav Kumar, Administrative Officer-Legal, New India Assurance Co. Ltd., on work and appointment

    Saurav Kumar, Administrative Officer-Legal, New India Assurance Co. Ltd., on work and appointment

    Saurav Kumar graduated from National Law Institute University, Bhopal in 2012. After doing various litigation internships at both the High Court and Supreme Court, he was recruited by New India Assurance Company Limited.

    Among all his academic commitments he played a lot of sports in law school and was prominent member of Sports Committee at NLIU. He had always planned to pursue a career in government sector since his days in law school and is currently working as an Administrative Officer-Legal at the New India Assurance Co. Ltd.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying at NLIU, Bhopal
    • Litigation internships
    • Recruitment procedure at NIACL

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are primarily young and aspiring lawyers?

    Hello, I am Saurav Kumar, 2012 batch graduate from National Law Institute University, Bhopal, currently working as an administrative officer-legal at The New India Assurance Co. Ltd.  I am an extrovert by nature and have likelihood for all things outdoor. I like interacting with new people, exploring new things and travelling a lot.

     

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Honestly speaking, choosing law as a career wasn’t much of a planned move. I was exploring many options after passing 10thand I found law very interesting as a career option.  Initially I was attracted because of fancy newspaper articles related to whole court room drama and other high profile cases where lawyers had very important role to play but slowly after reading more about legal profession my perception changed a lot.

     

    Why did you decide to study law? Did you ever think of alternate career options?

    After my 10+2, I was lucky to have been ably guided by my father and some of his friends who are lawyers of good repute about the various avenues that the field of law has to offer. So despite having chosen science as my stream after 10th, there was always an inclination towards law. Personally too, I was of the opinion that I had a better aptitude for legal studies than anything else.

     

    Tell us in detail about your time at NLIU. Which activities did you participate in?

    My involvement was more in campus activities than the regular stuff like mooting and debating etc. which is the general trend among most of the students in NLUs.  As is often appropriately said that college is not only where you grow academically but also evolve as a person, so has been my time at NLIU. While learning the nuances of law it has made me ever more confident as a person. The memories and the self-dependency that the hostel life gave me are things I would forever cherish.

     

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    At NLIU, you were associated with student committees. What skills did you acquire while serving various committees?

    I was not directly associated with any committees, except sport committee in final year but I always enjoyed working with my seniors and my batch mates in organizing various events.  Working as a team always helps you to learn from others.  It also gave me invaluable lessons in man-management and organizational skills, team-work and keeping others motivated in a unit. I was lucky to get support from students across the batches whenever I needed, which I think was possible only because of one mantra I always followed “give respect to others if you want to get respected by them”.

     

    What kind of internships did you do in your law school? Which internships will you consider to be right at the top and why? Did you have institutional support for procurement of internships?

    Most of my internships have been litigation based, which I got by applying directly or through personal contacts.  I interned with advocates of High Court and Supreme Court but the one I would put on the top is with Mr. Rajiv Sinha, advocate at the Civil Court.  Lower Court is a court of fact as opposed to HC and SC which are essentially courts of law. It is the first stepping stone. I gained valuable experience in drafting, pleading, framing of arguments, research work etc.  Also there is a lot of court procedure one does not simply learn through the procedure codes. Now that I am working on field, my work mostly involving supervision of lawyers, I can vouch that the nitty-gritties learnt at the trial level have been very handy to me.

     

    You are currently working at the New India Assurance Company Limited as law officer. How did you go about getting a job there? Please tell us about the recruitment process at NIACL.

    I was preparing for the judicial services examination, notification for most of the state judiciary was delayed that year. In the meanwhile I came to know about notification for recruitment of legal officer in NIACL. Recruitment process is similar to most of the PSUs.  There are two stages, written test and interview. Recruitment process in all four public sector general insurance company was not conducted as it was required in last few years, resulting into shortage of officers in various departments.  Many of the seniors officers are at the stage of retirement in next few years, therefore these companies are planning to recruit a large number of officers in upcoming years.  There are vacancies for legal officers in most of the offices; it is a very good opportunity for new graduates.  Our batch was first in that process and it will continue for at least next 2-3 years.

     

    What does NIACL look for in prospective employees? Is the induction process any different from Law Firms?

    I don’t know much about the induction process in law firms; people working in law firms can guide you better. After joining NIACL we had attended 12 weeks training program in Pune. During our induction training basic information regarding various departments was given by respective department heads.  In the last stage of training special session was conducted for practical knowledge.  As a legal officer they expect us to be well-versed with the basic concepts of procedural laws and some other important subjects like tort, contract etc.  Most of us were not good in insurance related laws but at the time of training they spent enough time on these subjects.

     

    Tell us about your job interview. What kinds of questions were asked? Do you remember any of the questions? How did you prepare for it?

    Before the interview, we were asked to fill a sheet which consists of questions regarding academics, co-curricular activities and some other general questions.  They asked a few question based on whatever I had written on that sheet, after that they asked questions from Evidence, CPC, Contract, Torts and IPC.  I remember most of the questions; they asked a few hypothetical questions related to vicarious liability, strict liability, defamation, void agreement and voidable contracts. They also asked direct questions related to topics like res judicata, estoppel, injunction, and general defences etc.

     

    What kind of work do you have to do there? How is the experience so far?

    I got posted in the divisional office, my work is mostly related to motor third party claims, consumer cases, workman compensation cases etc.  We  also represent the company in matters of arbitration.  In higher offices like regional office and head office people also have work related to ombudsman cases, agreement drafting and other corporate related work.  Up to scale 3 normally officers handle the department in which they are specialized but after that they will have to take additional burden of other department. In my office I am the only legal specialist, therefore the workload is more than what I was expecting at the time of joining.  As a young officer we are getting support from the higher authorities but at the same time expectation is also very high.  There are pros and cons in every job but my experience is very satisfactory till now.

     

    Does NIACL take interns? What is the process for same?

    NIACL is not taking interns but during our training program many new officers have suggested the higher authority to start taking interns to get better quality and giving opportunity to the students to understand actual work in general insurance sector which I think is very limited at present.  This will help both, the company as well as the students.  Our General Manager (HR) has responded positively, we are hoping that NIACL will start taking interns like other PSUs in coming years.

     

    Many law students strongly believe that getting a job while in law school s mostly about securing a high GPA. Would you agree?

    Not necessarily. It largely depends on the sector you are aiming for. As far as the corporate sector goes, good internships and publications weigh equally. As for the public sector and government jobs, a minimum percentage stipulated by them respectively is sufficient. A high GPA might always help you getting good internships though.

     

    If you could re-live your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    One could always say that something or other could have been better but as far as I see it was perfect and given a chance to live another  5 years at NLIU, I would live them the same way I did 3 years ago.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Always try to make decisions on your own, taking advice or sharing experience is good but at the end you should feel comfortable in whatever you are doing.  Something can’t be right or wrong only because majority is in favour of that.  Instead of complaining, try to make the most out of the opportunities which you are getting during 5 years in law school.  Lastly and most importantly enjoy every moment and contribute as much you can to the place where you are spending the most important half decade of your life.

  • Medha Chhabra, Executive-Legal, Piramal Enterprises, on work as an in-house counsel

    Medha Chhabra, Executive-Legal, Piramal Enterprises, on work as an in-house counsel

    Medha Chhabra graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2011.During law school, her internships were a mixed bag of law firms and companies including Philips and Vodafone. She started her legal career Sesa Goa Limited as an Associate Manager-Legal. Currently, she works at Piramal Enterprises Limited as an Executive-Legal.
    In this interview she talks about:
    • Law school experience at Symbiosis
    • Importance of co-curricular activities and CGPA
    • Appointment and work at Piramal Enterprises Limited

     

    Though it’s one of the most asked questions but yet, why law?

    I used to watch a lot of Hollywood movies and TV series (Boston Legal in particular) and was always fascinated by the characters depicting lawyers and their lifestyle, the courtroom drama, the confessions and the on table corporate discussions. Subconsciously, I drew an image of a lawyer as the person, who possesses righteousness and superior knowledge, has a good conscience and is guardian of common man. That is it.

     

    Tell us something about your college life? What all activities did you participate in?

    I went to Symbiosis Law School, Pune. The things I appreciate most about Symbiosis are the curriculum and the exam pattern (i.e. objective driven) which compelled the students to do an in-depth study, especially of the bare acts. The second best thing was the class timings. It offered students ample time to participate in extracurricular activities or do whatever they wanted to do.

    I was in-charge of the PR and Media relations for Symbiosis as a part of the student council. Also, I served as a student cabinet (the core decision making group for all the events organised in the college) member of Symbiosis Law School. Further, I was a member of the Corporate Law Cell of Symbiosis to enrich my area of interest.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing acumen in these areas?

    Initially, I was fascinated by intellectual property laws the most. To pursue it further, I completed a diploma in the same and worked as an intern with Mars and Partners, a Delhi based IP boutique law firm. Subsequently, my various internships with multinationals ignited my interest in Contracts, Consumer and Labour laws.

     

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    At Symbiosis Law School, you were associated with a lot of student committees. Can you share with us your some of your experiences which you think have been helpful in the long run?

    Being a part of student council demanded a lot of time and energy. It made me realise that people management and networking can be the most challenging task of all.

    Such experiences helped me evolve as an independent being and a professional.  It helped me inculcate self-discipline, being firm and empathetic. I had to be tougher on myself, take decisions for others and ensure that the same are well executed. I learnt to put individual interest aside and to work as a team and achieve common goals against pressing timelines.

     

    What kind of internships did you do in your law school? Which internships will you consider to be right at the top and why?

    My internships were a mixed bag of law firms and in-house.

    I would not say that any particular of them was better than other. I equally enjoyed all of them. All these internships helped me learn about some fundamentals of the law profession such as objectification of the issue/ legal point, developing an optimistic approach for solution, devising a plan of action and finding a solution to the same. This is the key mantra, I learnt from them, and I have applied the same to all aspects of my life.

    Our college used to offer internships during our semester breaks.

     

    Did you learn any skills while interning? What are these skills and how did you acquire them?

    While interning, in addition to what has been stated above, I learnt that hard work and perseverance are the two indispensable skills which every professional should imbibe in him/her.

    My legal acumen definitely developed during my internships. I learnt to be punctual, multitask and deliver within the pressing deadlines. Most important of all, I learnt to be meticulous and to have an eye for detail.

    Interning at different palaces gave me a fair idea as to the work culture at various places. I got an insight as to how law firm culture differs from that of a company in terms of skills and expectations which helped me take further professional decisions in my life.

     

    What do you feel about the importance of a good CGPA & networks when attempting to secure an internship?

    In my personal opinion, a good CGPA is very charming factor, not only from an internship perspective but also from a overall good resume perspective which helps you fetch a good job and may be a very good offshore study opportunity in the end. It shows consistency of efforts and academic excellence of a candidate.

    As a lawyer, networking is an essential expertise. Needless to state, it helps you by several means.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Do they have any ‘bonus’ value when seeking jobs?

    They certainly help you understand the finer law points, their evolvement, objectivity, and learn presentations and many more skills. As a fresher, these co-curricular activities may bag you an extra point.

     

    After graduation, you joined Sesa Goa Limited as an Associate Manager-Legal. What had contributed towards this appointment? What does Sesa Goa Limited do and what was the nature of your work there?

    From college placement, I was recruited by Vedanta Resources Plc. and was offered to join their subsidiary Sea Goa Limited.

    As we know, Vedanta Resources is the largest private sector mining company in India. Sesa Goa is involved in iron ore mining, marketing and selling the same in domestic as well as international market.

    My work profile constituted of commercial contract drafting and negotiations, briefing counsels of corporate litigations, secretarial compliances and liaising with various government departments.

    I enjoyed working at Sesa and needless to state, loved the city. Legal team was excellent and highly supportive.

     

    After having worked at Sesa Goa for a year, how did the shift to Piramal Enterprises Limited take place?

    After a year I had decided to relocate to Mumbai and was looking for a job. I came to know through a friend that there is a vacancy at Piramal Enterprises Limited. I approached them myself and got recruited.

     

    What does your current work profile at Piramal Enterprises Limited consist of? What’s a typical day like?

    My work profile consists of commercial contract drafting and negotiating on behalf of business team with legal counsel of external parties like customers, vendors, suppliers etc., briefing counsels for corporate litigations and advising business teams on various day to day legal issues.

    Every day at Piramal is different and brings upon me different challenges. The day typically starts with emails and drafting agreements. To understand the need of business, I may need to attend meeting with business teams from different departments on various issues. Sometimes it leads to attending meetings with external parties as well. Not very often but there are hearings at courts for the litigation matters in which I have been involved in. My portfolio also includes international businesses of the Company, hence, sometimes, there are late evening calls with the business teams located at the jurisdictions other than India and their external parties.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    As a student I never thought that there could be a problem in enforcing a law but as I entered the profession, I realised that the mechanism to enforce law in our country lacks strength. The factors contributing to the same, in my view, are huge population, lack of technology, and sometimes, the will of the people to obey the law.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Law is an ever evolving subject. I believe that one should never stop learning. Reading and keeping ourselves updated about the latest developments in various fields of law would help in professional development and skill enhancement.

    Separately, life is short, live it to the fullest. Do whatever you like and try to be the best at it.

     

  • Rima Bhardwaj, Legal Manager, Wal-Mart India on the job of an in-house counsel

    Rima Bhardwaj, Legal Manager, Wal-Mart India on the job of an in-house counsel

    Rima Bhardwaj graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2010. As a law student she has been quite active and participated in many moots, debates, MUNs and conferences. She also has multiple publications to her credit during her five years in law school. Her internship experience is a healthy mix of both law firms (Khaitan and Co., AMSS, Fox Mandal) and corporate houses (Tata Steel, Tata Motors, JUSCO). By the time she graduated, she had received a job offer from Nestle India Limited where she worked for three and half years as an Assistant Legal Manager. Later, she joined Wal-Mart India Pvt. Ltd and currently works as a Legal Manager there. In August 2014, she was awarded with Star Performer of the Year Award and that too within 6 months of joining the organization.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Moots, Internships and Publications
    • Work at Nestle India
    • Appointment and work at Wal-Mart
    • Bagging the Star Performer of the Year Award

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    A warm ‘Hello!’ to my esteemed colleagues of the legal fraternity and the budding, incumbent entrants to the same. This is Rima Bhardwaj, currently working as a legal counsel for the India arm of the leading retail giant, Wal-Mart. I have a work experience of more than 4.5 years behind me and would identify myself as someone who has set sails for a humble journey to achieve the greater things in life.

    Hailing from a non legal background, the sole motivation to turn towards law was my own conviction and deep respect for this noble profession. It is infact one of the oldest and honoured professions recorded in the history of mankind and; a number of game changers throughout social and political history of the world have been legal luminaries.

     

    Please tell our readers what motivated you to take up legal studies?

    Right from childhood, I believe I had a knack for arguing well. In fact, my parents often used to joke amongst themselves that I should be a lawyer; little knowing that it would come true! I also had a keen interest in watching legal dramas/movies and analyzing the legal interpretations being taken in each one of them. What followed thereafter was the direct result of this intrigue and fascination towards the subject, born within me right from a young age.

    Rather I feel that more than the mode of motivation, what is important is the fact that you enter into any profession after careful thought and for the right reasons. This alone will ensure sustainability and satisfaction.

     

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    Tell us a bit about your days at ILS Law College, Pune.

    I studied in ILS for 5 years i.e. from 2005-2010. They were some of the best years of my life. It was also the first time that I was away from home, due to which I could learn the delicate task of balancing freedom with responsibility. The bi-semester course in ILS is very well structured so as not to put unnecessary pressure or burden upon students. The resultant time obtained apart from studying, was used by me in pursuing other productive activities like moot courts, research articles, NGO work, diplomas etc. I believe that for a holistic development, apart from scholastics, any student of law should be exposed to other avenues of learning law as well, which would help him/her to be a more confident individual and less of a bookworm. Such activities help a student to apply the law, to interpret it, to understand its true significance as a consequence of which they would never feel lost in the real world even if they don’t have a textbook handy. I am happy I could be one of those lucky few.

     

    How were your internship experiences?

    My internship experience is a healthy mix of both law firms (Khaitan and Company, Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh A. Shroff and Company, Fox Mandal) and corporate houses (Tata Steel, Tata Motors, JUSCO). The best experience that I have had as far as internship goes is with Khaitan and Company, Kolkata. The primary reason for the same being that the interns there are trusted with considerable amount of work and information. Any good work done is duly appreciated and rewarded through performance based stipends.

    Internships are a great way of knowing and experiencing a slice of what awaits you once you graduate out of college. However, my primary issue is with the fact that the interns are generally given half baked information or incomplete research to work upon: the larger context or the  actual facts are never explained to them due to which they are often on a wild goose chase of a misinterpreted fact and position. Balancing the confidentiality issues, the concerned associate should spend more time and energy to make their internship more enriching.

     

    How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    Extra-curricular activities do give a fresh lease to an individual’s way of thinking and outlook. People who indulge in such activities get the opportunity to take time off from studying or scholastics and devote it to equally productive pursuits. However, at the same time, one shouldn’t lose sight of his/her ultimate goal that is to graduate with good credentials.

    Students should partake of such activities voluntarily. I am a strong advocate of the fact that things which are mandatorily pushed into operation can never be sustainable in the long run. One derives maximum benefit from activities that they enter into, on their own free will.

     

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    You have participated in various moot court competitions while in law school. Tell us how important is mooting and what effect does it have on one’s CV?

    Taking the aforementioned point forward, the primary reason that I enjoyed participating in moot court competitions was because I wanted to do it myself. Moot court competitions are a great way to test, challenge as well as improve upon your public speaking skills, usage of accurate legal idioms and expressions, legal interpretations, knowledge on the recent trends in judicial pronouncements and case laws relating to your moot question, argumentative skills etc. Being a competition, it also brings out the healthy competitive spirit within you with the opportunity to learn on the way.

    However, from a practical perspective in terms of CV or further job opportunity, it doesn’t hold much material value. The recruiters perceive it as an interesting choice of activity to be engaged in within college but that’s about it. It is so because the actual scenario in the Courts, is much more complicated, drawn out, the issues much more rigged with red tapism and the law/legal decisions very poorly appreciated, which the limited experience of moot courts fail to address.

     

    Soon after graduation you joined Nestle India Limited as an Assistant Legal Manager. How did your appointment take place?

    I was successful in getting campus recruitment right after college, in the leading FMCG giant – Nestle, in mid 2010. They had come to college with the objective of taking only one candidate. Needless to say it was a tough flight in which 3 gruelling rounds were taken – 1 Group Discussion and 2 personal interviews. I was mostly quizzed in Arbitration, Law of Contracts, Company Law and Disclosures and Civil/ Criminal Procedure Code, which fortunately I could answer to their satisfaction.

     

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available?

    First year post graduation is a journey of the second league of self discovery and of imbibing the legal profession within oneself as an accepted way of life. My advice for the fresh law graduates shall be to take it easy and to go with the flow. It is also the right time to self assess whether they are happy with the particular avenue they are pursuing, or whether they want to change their course and venture into some other legal field or area of law. Keeping an open mind and receptive attitude shall go a long way, in the first year to establish oneself in the right context. Matured decision making, legal acumen and effective planning shall follow with experience and time.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Writing has always been my passion be it fiction or non-fiction. For writing an effective and informed legal article, it should ideally be preceded with an ample amount of research through reading from various modes possible be it books, internet, journals, case laws etc. One has to write and edit through several drafts to perfect the final piece. One also has to keep its reader in mind, and accordingly customize his/her article for a student magazine, university journal, website etc. The flow of the article should be structured, whatever might be the subject, it should always start with the introduction or genus followed by the meaning, any applicable international perception on the same, defining enactments and case laws which shaped the subject, conflicting opinions or pronouncements given and last but not the least a personal conclusion of the writer. It is foremost that your research should shine through and the effort put in clearly discernible.

     

    Tell us how has paper publishing and other co-curricular activities helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career?

    Such activities have helped me to be multi-dimensional in my thought process and approach. When you engage in multiple co-curricular activities in your formative life in college, your way of thinking gets trained to run in more than one direction and process more than one view, even if they are conflicting towards one another. A good lawyer is not only one who subscribes to a particular view but one who keeps challenging his/her own view, multiple times, to arrive at a correct position.

     

    Currently you work as a Legal Manager at Wal-Mart India Private Limited. What made you choose this particular avenue? How did your appointment at Wal-Mart take place?

    Wal-Mart is relatively at its infancy in India. Considering it hasn’t yet got the FDI nod in multi brand retail, therefore the company is busy instead in establishing cash and carry wholesale model stores all over India, for the first time. Consequently there is a lot of opportunity for legal to be instrumental in helping the company to make an impactful decision and make a difference. It is the right place to be in and therefore I am.

    The hiring process constituted of 3 rounds- 1 HR interview and 2 personal interviews where I was most mostly quizzed on my past work experience and the difference that I can bring in, in case I am hired.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. What is a normal workday like? Being the Legal Manager, what are your responsibilities?

    A normal workday in office is pretty challenging in terms of my work profile. I am responsible for looking after all the litigations, notices, licensing queries, product safety norms and other miscellaneous matters. Due to the expansive portfolio, I get to work on various matters and the dullness of routine never creeps in.

    I would also like to state that unlike a law firm associate, an in-house counsel has to own his opinion and cannot afford to let even an iota of doubt colour his/her viewpoint. They have to be highly well read, first time correct always as well as be a jack of all trades, so that they can question the consulting advocates/ law firms and advance the company’s best interests, in a legally conducive manner. Rather an in-house counsel has a more challenging and tall order to answer to, then a law firm associate, which makes the job all the more interesting and intriguing.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle or challenge in joining any new organization is to make your presence felt and heard. People can be quite dismissive at first since they are yet to realize your true merit or potential. There are chances of getting lost in the crowd.

    In the first few months, you should set about doing just that; making yourself indispensable in the mind of the organization. Being well prepared, voicing your opinion smartly, participating voluntarily in discussions, performing within tight deadlines and making effective strategy decisions are some of the ways I made myself be noticed positively.

     

    In August 2014, you were awarded with Star Performer Award. How did you go about achieving this?

    It was a career highlight for me. I secured this award within 6 months of joining the organization and it was awarded to an individual member of the Legal Team for the first time.

    I set about achieving this by precisely doing the aforementioned activities. Something additional that I did was taking charge of things and taking complete responsibility for the completion of the same. My advice shall be in order to achieve anything, you have to come out of your comfort zone, ditch the routine way of approaching things and take risks. More often than not, you shall come out successful!

     

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    A corporate lawyer should set its client’s interest and well being as his/her top priority. They have to set themselves the task of going above and beyond the black and white precincts of enactments/ legislations i.e. of simply reading up on what’s legal and what’s not and rather explore the grey area of brave and unconventional interpretations as well as find the solutions within the four corners of law. A corporate lawyer cannot afford to be a hardliner opinionist nor a traditional operator. He/ She needs to be ready to break new grounds, challenge obsolete ways of understanding and attempt harmonious construction of a seemingly adverse position.

    Some of the ways of achieving it is to keep oneself well informed, having informed discussions with industry colleagues, and of course the best way is to actually work upon the issue which incidentally also happens to be the best way to learn.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at Wal-Mart? What should one do and how to contact them to apply for a job? What are the qualities which they look for in one and his/her CV?

    Wal-Mart regularly takes summer interns for a period of 1 month – 2 months every year and also pays stipend. For internship, the candidate may approach through the HR link given in the corporate website or get in touch with me as well.

    As far as job is concerned, just like any other good corporate house, Wal-Mart also seeks multi faceted legal professionals with ability to structure, streamline, regularize and lead the work/ projects given. For applying, the candidate may approach through the HR link given in the corporate website or respond to the individual job postings featured from time to time. A legal degree from a reputed college with some additional work experience helps to get noticed faster.

    The candidate should also be well versed with corporate laws like company law, SEBI, contracts, mergers, acquisition and joint ventures, arbitration, real estate and licensing laws.

     

    Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding professionals?

    The most important tip that I would like to give is to keep your individuality and unique way of approaching work and contributing towards it, intact. There is no well defined way or formula of achieving success. Each one of us has to find it using our own special set of skills and acumen; but yes, in short term we may like to model our ways according to the person we admire. Get inspired but not dictated; your belief in yourself and your choices shall hold you in good stead in the long term. Best of Luck!

  • Awani Yaduwanshi, Manager – Corporate Legal Group, ICICI Bank on work at Banks and other corporate bodies

    Awani Yaduwanshi, Manager – Corporate Legal Group, ICICI Bank on work at Banks and other corporate bodies

    Awani Yaduwanshi graduated with Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2012. She has an enviable academic record and an excellent series of internships at top law firms. During law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities and also has a couple of publications to her name. She has also been recipient of the Best Legislative Initiator (Female) at Amity Competition on Law Reforms, 2012. Currently, she works as a Manager – Corporate Legal Group at ICICI Bank.

    We have taken this opportunity to ask her about the several decisive moments in her career amongst other things including:

    • Publications and research skills
    • Importance of co-curricular activities
    • Appointment and work experience at ICICI Bank

     

    How did you gravitate towards Law? Tell us about your college life at Pune. What all activities did you partake in?

    As a kid I was quite fascinated by software engineers. However, the credit of me choosing law over engineering goes to my uncle. I had enrolled for a one year correspondence course from Law School Tutorial in my final year of high school. Always an avid reader, by the end of my 12th standard, I was more inclined towards law as a career option, because I thoroughly enjoyed critical/verbal reasoning, staying abreast with current affairs, reading and the logical, common sense approach of law as a field of study, all of which, came more naturally to me compared to everything else. Looking back, choosing law over other career options was a giant leap of faith, a right decision made at the right time.

    I believe we were a lucky lot to spend our college life in Pune. There was a lot to explore and keep us busy at all times. Among other things academic, my time in Pune was spent doing nothing, chilling with friends, exploring places and things to do in addition to writing research papers, attending conferences, participating in client counselling sessions, presenting papers and the like.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing command and knowledge in these areas?

    To be honest, I did not have one particular interest area. As a student, I was always intrigued with how every subject, whether, contract law, tort law, international law, family law or something as procedural as CPC and IPC provided for situations, issues, problems and conflict areas. All one had to do was ask questions. The problems were already thought of, anticipated and provided for through a statute or a provision, which was always further, supplemented, debated and interpreted by the several interesting case laws. However, if I was to pick, I would say that I am particularly fond of contract law. The love started ever since I studied Section 27 and continues to date when we end up defending agreements and contracts in litigation.

     

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    What is your take on academics? How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious career?

    Pune is a lovely city which ensured that college life was never just about academics. In addition to studies, five years at law school were characterised by living independently, making friends, understanding ones likes and dislikes, developing hobbies and having a lot of fun. When it comes to grades, though not one of the toppers, I would say that I managed just fine, never being on either extreme end of the spectrum.

    Personally speaking, I acknowledge that really high grades do help you get identified by a third party, usually an interviewer. However, I believe that good grades are a limited measure of how intelligent an individual is, or how successful he or she would be in his career. Good grades are a combination of multiple factors, including ones temperament on the day of the examination, manner of assessment, type of questions and sometimes even the speed in which one writes, whereas success at workplace depends on understanding your basics, knowing fundamentals, people skills, sincerity and diligence. The two should not be interrelated and everyone should focus on knowing what one claims to know thoroughly well.

     

    How did you go about securing your internships?

    I must admit that internships weren’t the easiest to secure. However, the ones that I managed were a combined effort of persistent planning, fretting, good seniors, decent contacts, an almost functional placement cell and some luck.

     

    You have publications in various renowned journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    Write papers when you are genuinely interested in a topic. Quality over quantity is always the rule. If you have identified your interest area, explore issues and angles surrounding it. Ask questions, formulate opinions, analyse existing material, learn about the topic and become slightly better at it than you were before writing the paper. With regards to avenues for publishing your article, lookup online websites and keep a track of conferences and seminars, journals and call for publications from colleges and other institutions.

     

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    Soon after graduation, you joined ICICI Bank as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? What worked for you in securing the job?

    I managed securing a job with ICICI Bank on day zero of placements in July 2011. That year the Bank had picked up 6 of us from close to 72 of us who sat for the placements. There was a two tier selection process comprising of group discussion and a personal interview. One has to understand that working your way through an interview involves explaining concepts and convincing a third person of your point of view rather than just quoting verbatim something from the textbooks. What worked for me, in securing my job, was a combination of focus, composure and knowing my basics well. Having a predetermined goal, coupled with drive and the confidence to push through difficult situations does leave an impact on the interviewer. Knowing your basics well and understanding concepts, seals the deal.

     

    How does your typical work day go at ICICI? What were the obstacles and challenges you faced during the initial days of job?

    My time at ICICI Bank has been fairly rewarding and the work that I have done has managed to keep me engaged and teach me something new every once in a while. The biggest benefit of being an in-house lawyer is that one deals with the commercial as well as the legal aspects of a deal which ends up being more practical and less theoretical, and helps us as transaction lawyers look at the bigger picture. One ends up reading balance sheets, understanding concepts like EBITDA, credit rating and a host of other commercial factors in addition to the legal documentation. I work for the corporate banking group and the special structuring group within the bank. Thus, my work involves documentation and ancillary issues with respect to sourcing new clients as well as focusing on accounts that may be classified as a non-performing asset and working towards restructuring the bank’s exposure in such clients.

    A typical work day at ICICI involves, negotiating with clients and with business groups within the bank who source the clients, finalising documentation, adhering to processes and meeting monthly and quarterly deadlines. Litigations involving recovery and other civil matters, coordinating with external counsels are some other aspects of work that keep us occupied.

    The challenges one may face during the initial days at work may range from settling down in a new city, to understanding your work profile, to dealing with people within and outside your team, to meeting deadlines. What needs to be remembered is that most of the issues are transient in nature and usually not as stressful as they may seem.

     

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    Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    It may sound cliché, but its best to keep one’s CV simple. Focus on quality more than quantity and ensure that you only put your best foot forward and highlight your accomplishments, and accolades. It may also be advisable to customise your CV to suit the job you are applying for.

    With regards to interviews, it’s important to remember that having a well drafted CV is only the first step. Ensure that you are well prepared to answer and discuss anything that you have mentioned in your CV. Have opinions, remember concepts and remain composed. Confidence and composure are appealing attributes in an individual. Lastly, not even the interviewer expects you to be a walking encyclopaedia. Be sincere in what you have written and what you are trying to convey, the rest usually follows.

     

    How is the work environment as an in-house counsel different from other disciplines of law?

    To be honest, I have only worked with ICICI and thus would not be able to comment with authority on the work environments in law firms. ICICI bank as an organisation has a strong value system in place, which ensures that each employee is treated with respect. The bank follows an open door policy when it comes to addressing one’s grievances and every employee is encouraged to speak up if he feels the need to. I have heard of difficult people and difficult situations, people end up facing in law firms. However, I believe that this is too broad an issue to generalise. There are good days, and there are bad days. There are the difficult people, the self-absorbed people and the ones who are working against a deadline. That being said, a formal framework stipulating acceptable behaviour towards your juniors and seniors, does work in favour of organisations.

     

    How important do you now find your research skills?

    Ignorance of law is no excuse. As lawyers, it is important to stay abreast with the latest rulings and updates in the field of your work. While the frequency may differ, it is crucial to hone your research skills since they will always be of help at any stage of your career.

     

    How has been your experience working with interns? What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest?

    The kind of attitude with which an intern approaches work really, works in their favour or against them. Enthusiasm, diligence and being earnest at what you do never fail to make a positive impression. Try understanding the bigger picture, get involved and have a good time. Internships are the perfect opportunities to pick up work related experiences; build your people skills, make mistakes, ask questions, understand job roles, all with limited accountability.

     

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. Would you agree?

    After 5 years of law school, achieving work life balance, whether as an in-house counsel or as a law firm associate, does take some getting used to along with coping with the pressures of your daily job. Relatively speaking, working as an in-house counsel does afford greater scope for maintaining and sustaining the balance. That however, does not make the job less demanding, at least till you are getting paid for it. It is essential to take time out for yourself and do things that you truly enjoy doing. That more often than not makes up for the slogging.

     

    What are the tips you would like to share with our readers who are mainly students?

    • Enjoy your time at a law school. It truly is the time to have fun, make memories, friends and mistakes.
    • Plan a little and take time out to dream what you want to become in life (or at the end of five years), work towards it and be flexible.
    • Enjoy the journey rather than always worrying about what is to come. There is ample stress to follow. Take less stress when you can.
    • Develop hobbies and find your niche. There is nothing more fulfilling than doing your own thing in your own time. It will serve you well when you seek work life balance.
    • Take risks, and break a few rules. Don’t be too hard on yourself. It’s mostly ok.

     

  • Priyanka Singh, Senior Legal Executive, Tata Elxsi Ltd., on work of an in-house counsel

    Priyanka Singh, Senior Legal Executive, Tata Elxsi Ltd., on work of an in-house counsel

    Priyanka Singh graduated from Bharati Vidyapeeth Law School in 2009. As a law student she has been quite active and participated in many moot court competitions debates, MUNs and conferences. She has a rich experience of working with a law firm, with a multinational financial services corporation as a Contracts Specialist – Legal and has also practiced independently. She has recently joined Tata Elxsi Ltd as Senior Legal Executive.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at Bharati Vidyapeeth Law School
    • Work experience at Tottenham India Law Associates and Fidelity Investments
    • Appointment and work at Tata Elxsi Ltd

     

    Legal studies are still only a backup option for quite a lot of students. What motivated you to choose law as a career? How did you get through to Bharati Vidyapeeth Law School?

    No, I totally disagree that legal studies are only a backup option for most students. There are students who work hard to clear the law entrance exam. I myself, being from a family having legal background, was genuinely interested in pursuing my law degree. Yes, on my part, family was the motivation factor, who supported and guided me throughout.

    Bharati has their own entrance test conducted at university level, after clearing it one gets admission upon counselling.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My area of interest was contracts. I ensured that I get to read various types of contracts, the provisions being included therein. I kept myself updated about the recent development in the companies regarding contract. Which now I feel was of great use to me in my profession.

     

    As a law student which activities did you participate in?

    Basically, every law student should participate in various moot courts. I was also not an exception to it. In my first year of college my seniors guided me how to go about studies and other stuff. Throughout my college my seniors and my teachers guided me how to go about studies. For internship, i used to shortlist the law firms name, send them my CV and that’s how use to get the internship.

     

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    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

    I interned in a law firm and with sr. Advocates. The area was vast, whether it be company law, family law, civil, real estate or criminal law. When you work on something, you would genuinely have an interest in doing particular work. And that’s what I realised while doing my internship.

     

    What do you feel about the perception that students of certain ‘elite’ NLU’s have a much easier time in kick-starting their career? Is it true?

    Unfortunately yes, to an extent I do agree. But at the same time I also feel that in the end what matters is the knowledge and legal acumen. If you have this of course you can give a tough competition to anyone.

     

    After graduating from Bharati Vidyapeeth Law School you joined Tottenham India Law Associates as an Associate. How did the appointment take place?

    It was campus recruitment! Personal interview and HR round.

     

    You left Tottenham India Law Associates and had joined Fidelity Investments as Contracts Specialist – Legal. What led to this shift? What kind of work did you do there?

    My area of interest was always to work with a corporate organization. I had joined Tottenham only to learn and have knowledge about litigation, getting familiar with court procedures, as i feel that it’s always easy to move from litigation to corporate but to switch from corporate to litigation is always difficult. After working for a firm for a few years, I thought it’s the time to move ahead in my career and I started looking for a change and got an opportunity to work with Fidelity.

    In Fidelity I was exposed to various kinds of financial services contracts, drafting, negotiation and various types of procurement contracts. Working with a corporate is entirely different from working in a firm. I got lots of opportunity to learn the various aspects of corporate law.

     

    You’ve recently joined Tata Elxsi Ltd as Sr. Legal Executive. How did the switch from Fidelity Investments take place? Please tell us about Tata Elxsi Ltd and the recruitment process there.

    I wanted to try my hands on IT contracts hence moved to Tata Elxsi.

    Recruitment process started with legal round with hiring manager, then with legal head, and then HR round and salary discussion.

     

    What does your current work profile at Tata Elxsi Ltd consists of? How is a typical workday like?

    My day to day work at Tata Elxsi involves reviewing and redlining the contracts, drafting amendments (if any), negotiation, HR related issues relating to employees, drafting of legal notices and co-ordinating with different BU’s for clearing the agreements.

     

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    What do you think makes a good in-house counsel?

    I think that an in-house counsel should be proactively involved with the company and effectively communicate with others.

    They should know that Company is their only Client and they have to work in the best interest of the Company. One should also be familiar with company’s operations, its personnel, its existing past and potential issues.

     

    Does Tata Elxsi Ltd take legal interns? What is the process for same?

    Yes, Tata Elxsi does take legal interns. All such vacancies are posted on the company’s website, one need to apply for it, if the CV gets shortlisted, the HR gets in touch with them and we take the procedure ahead.

     

    What is your advice for law students who are interested in pursuing a career as in-house counsel?

    For every lawyer beginning is always difficult but at the same time it would give you an immense opportunity to learn and get exposed to various aspects of law. Find out what your area of interest is and then as all of us know law is only about reading, so read, learn and apply it practically.

     

  • Roshni MS, Associate, Indirect Tax Practice, ELP on a career in tax and Law School experience

    Roshni MS, Associate, Indirect Tax Practice, ELP on a career in tax and Law School experience

    Roshni MS graduated from ILS Law College in 2011. As a law student she has been quite active and participated in various co-curricular activities. By the time she graduated, she had received a job offer from PricewaterhouseCoopers where she worked for nearly three years. Later, she switched to Economics Law Practices and is currently working as an Associate there.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at Indian Law Society’s Law College
    • First year work experience at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC)
    • Building a career in Indirect Tax law
    • Appointment and work at Economic Laws Practice (ELP)

     

    Please tell us what motivated you to pursue law as a career? How did you get through to ILS, Pune?

    I did a major part of my schooling in Nagpur, a city that I still hold very close to my heart. Studying at the prestigious Bhartiya Vidya Mandir, I was given ample opportunities to touch base with a lot of facets which could eventually culminate into a career, be it sports, fashion or academics. However, all my life I remember being leaning towards academics despite having a good run with sports. And to choose a profession which marries this interest had to be law, considering my aversion to the numerous doctors and engineers in the family!

    Numbers were a great deal in my family and board exams were euphoria in themselves. I’m sure it is like that in most of yours. The gruelling hours put into studying eventually paid off when I saw my name in the first merit list put up by ILS, Pune. My decision to take it up was well thought and well discussed and I am more than happy to say, it’s the best decision I could have made.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your time at ILS, Pune. Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    My time at college, by no means of exaggeration, was the best time of my life. The best thing about ILS, apart from other things, was the college timings: the first two years were roughly 3 hours of college and the next three were about 4 hours. You have the rest of the day to figure out things for yourselves. There were the kind who would join language classes, typing classes, work somewhere, join a diploma. I do not think any other college would give you that kind of leverage.

    The first year of college was a mess. You actually didn’t know how to approach your academics. Studying did not help and my scores plummeted. But after two semesters, and speaking with seniors, doing meticulous research, I approached the exams in a smarter, better prepared manner. I would be lying if I said I did not study, honestly I put in 4 times the effort and ended up securing a place in the merit list. And proudly, that continued.

     

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    What is your opinion when people say that all that they have learnt is in their years of practice?

    Legal Education is just that, theory. It definitely gives you a ready reckoner in your head and can guide yourself appropriately to the law. But the problem is when you need to put them to use. Except litigation, where you are given practical experience in the form of moots, corporate practice differs in humongous proportions.

    The learning curve begins at college, but literally curves when you join a corporate. It is indeed funny, but true, when people say all that they have learnt is in their years of practice. The approach the majority takes in college is to clear the exam. Unfortunately, while it helps that time, it does nothing for you at the workplace. There was no one to tell us this when we were in college, but I hope this helps you.

     

    How do you think academic research and writing can be encouraged in Indian law schools?

    Students by their own volition take part in numerous competitions for academic research and legal writing. The drafting and nomenclature which is otherwise used once in awhile in these competitions become a way of life once you venture into corporate life. Hence, inculcating this habit should become a norm.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    My first year after graduation was more or less like first year of college. You are mighty confused all the time. But the truth of the matter is everyone goes through this phase and it is more than okay to be that way.

    Apart from the learning you need to impart yourselves, another important factor which helped me immensely was the fact that I got to work with wonderful people. The work environment is an important factor which makes you the person you become.

     

    How did your appointment at PwC take place? How was your experience working there? Tell us what a typical day at work was like for you?

    PricewaterhouseCoopers, Mumbai (PwC) will always be special one for me, not only because I started my career there but because I met a lot of wonderful colleagues there. Be it my contemporaries or also the seniors I worked with and those I had a chance to mingle with. PwC had come to campus during our placement week in college and I was very happy to have made it through. What was challenging though was I did not study tax in college and to join a firm that specialized in Indirect Taxation which was a mighty decision in itself. My time spent at PwC taught me everything I know of Indirect Tax today.

    A typical day started with a quick meeting with my manager and discussing the things to do and the meetings to attend to. Everything was organised and of course, there was that break you had to take for a coffee with your friends at work. Once that was done, we were back on our seats and punching vigorously into our laptops. At the end of the day, I was mighty pleased with the things I worked on and the new facets of law I had learnt. Every day was a learning and I used to look forward to being there. I strongly recommend PwC Mumbai as one of the ideal work places to be in.

     

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    You left PwC to join ELP in their indirect taxes wing. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    When I moved from Mumbai to Bangalore, a lot of things changed. They say location plays a major role on your work profile. Bangalore, as everyone knows is an IT dominated city and my profile had a major chunk of Indirect Tax compliance related assistance. This was a challenge initially but as I picked up this facade, I realised how important it is to understand the compliance involved in the subject you are working in. I strongly advise that everyone involved in indirect tax advisory must spend some time doing the compliance.

    But after spending a good 11 months in the compliance sector, I wished to move back to the advisory role in Indirect Taxation. And ELP arrived in Bangalore at the precise moment while this thought had initiated. And hence, the shift to move to ELP to join their indirect tax advisory practice.

     

    What kind of work and responsibilities generally an associate at ELP deals with? What should a student do so that he gets placed in a prestigious firm like ELP?

    An Associate at ELP is typically occupied with immense drafting and litigation assistance. You have some interesting legal opinions to work on and draft some meticulous replies to show cause notices and appeals etc.

    Typically, ELP hires post a scrutiny vide your internship and hence it is of utmost importance that you have a chance to intern here.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    Professional ethics come naturally once you are in the workplace. Some simple terms like collaborate, share, speak, admit and question etc. will help you in a long way. The environment you are at work is what you create of it. If you do commit an error, admit it. But make sure you don’t repeat the same thing again. That will only mean that you are not learning from your mistakes and may tick off the Boss.

     

    How do you say one can gain expertise in tax law? What does it take to be a good tax lawyer?

    There is no substitute to experience. There is no prodigy in tax law. To be a good tax lawyer is not different from being a good lawyer. Be sincere towards the work bestowed upon you.

     

    Is the work significantly different from other transactional lawyers? How much of your work does involve litigation, if at all?

    Indirect taxation strives on litigation as much as other laws do. But what is great is that this subject also demands equal attention for the advisory work which improves your research, drafting and technical skills, ultimately which will help during the litigation.

     

    Tell us about the difference between being an In-house counsel and a Law Firm Associate.

    When I did have the chance to join an industry, this is something I thought about diligently. Being a client facing associate, I was exposed to a variety of industries and accordingly to a vast number of issues. That was something I did not want to lose.

    Alternatively, the clientele you interact with from the companies, be in the Legal team or the Finance team are one of the most passionate and brilliant minds in the legal fraternity. They are the go-to personnel of the Company before any major decisions are taken. That feeling should be irreplaceable.

    However, being in a firm, addressing varied client issues since the start of my career, I will be biased to a Law Firm Associate!

     

    Recently, the Supreme Court declared the National Tax Tribunal as unconstitutional. What is your take on this?

    While declaring the NTT could be construed as a progressive step, what is a matter of concern is the pending litigation for which the NTT was initially set up. This ruling could also affect all similar tribunals set up to decide substantial question of law. Nevertheless, there must be an alternate remedy for the speedy disposals of the pending matters and increase the confidence of the tax payers

     

    You have excelled in your academics, interned at top-notch Indian. How can one excel as a law student and enjoy college life?

    There were some seniors in college who told me that you must intern every vacation you had and there were the others who said that it really did not matter. So I did a bit of both.

    I made sure I did not intern in my first year of college. And that I would do a maximum of only 5 internships in the 5 years I spend in college. But what I did was to intern at different environments. So I interned with an individual lawyer, a company and law firms. This gave me a heads up on what to expect where.

    As for the fun part, I had a lot of time for that. I spent most of my free time with my friends or travelled back home to be with my family. I used to play tennis and would catch up on the game at a sports club nearby or you would find me drinking glasses and glasses of cold coffee in the cafeteria. Yup, definitely the best days!

     

    What do you cherish most about the experience you have had over the past two years?

    My time spent at PwC Mumbai is something that will linger on for times to come. It may not be completely true when someone tells you that you do not make friends at work. But fortunately for me, I was glad to have had that.

     

    What’s next for you?

    There are definitely some plans up my sleeve but for now, I am just going with the flow.

  • Sonal More, Global Legal Counsel at an MNC talks about Corporate Law, Higher Studies and LPOs

    Sonal More, Global Legal Counsel at an MNC talks about Corporate Law, Higher Studies and LPOs

    Sonal More graduated from GLC, Mumbai and thereafter had worked as an in-house counsel at places like Spykar Jeans, Pangea3 and currently at Firmenich (a global leader in perfumes).

    Even as a Global Legal Counsel at Firmenich currently, she has taken time out to pursue the MBL programme from NLSIU, Bangalore. In this interview we ask her about:

    • Importance of learning a foreign language
    • Work at an MNC like Firmenich
    • Pursuing the Masters in Business Laws from NLSIU

     

    Please tell us about yourself. What were your reasons for taking up law?

    I belong to a closely-knit Maharashtrian family in Mumbai. Born, brought up and educated in our financial capital, Mumbai. I have always been passionate about art; the freedom to use colours with no boundaries mesmerized me, contradictory to a lawyer’s profession where rules are the key to our survival. Raised by two teachers, reading was inculcated in us right from childhood. My interest in law began when my father gifted me my first novel, Sidney Sheldon’s Rage of Angels, which was based on an American Criminal Defense Attorney. That was my first step towards law. With time, I started reading articles on prominent Indian lawyers and our legal system. I met one of the criminal defense attorneys for guidance and decided I had to find my way in the legal fraternity somehow; so I commenced my law course with Government Law College, Mumbai. Coming from a non legal background, it was difficult to understand which avenue to take, and after 2 years of initial trial and error in my internships I finally found my passion in contracts.

     

    You have an LL.M and a Postgraduate Diploma as well in Intellectual Property Law. Please tell us how you decided to pursue the diploma also.

    I was introduced to Intellectual Property Law, when I was struggling to decide which area of law I should be focusing on. Being new to the topic, I enrolled myself with National Law School, Bangalore for my Postgraduate Diploma to get more insight into Intellectual Property which helped me simultaneously to prepare for my final year law exams where IPR was my specialization. I pursued LL.M after completing the Post Graduate Diploma; I felt LL.M would give me in depth understanding in comparison to a diploma.

     

    You also completed a Diploma in Cyber Laws from the Asian School of Cyber Law in Pune. Please comment on the quality and structure of the course. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?

    The course is designed for beginners and to get basic knowledge as to what comprises of Cyber Laws. It is automatically presumed that Cyber Law essentially means Information Technology Act and nothing more than that. This course helps to understand that Cyber Law is much more. The structure of the course is very concise and appropriate for basic level understanding. The course helped me immensely while drafting, negotiating and understanding IT concepts in software license agreements. For someone who is working on software license agreements, this course is highly recommended.

     

    You are currently pursuing Masters in Business Laws (MBL) from NLSIU, Bangalore. It is said to be one of the toughest postgraduate law courses in India with a very low pass percentage. What would you say about the quality of the course material?

    I couldn’t agree more that it is indeed the toughest postgraduate law course, at least amongst the ones I have appeared for. My preparation is mainly based on the NLS course material, for any recent updates to the regulations NLS provides additional notes. I would still recommend research on internet for additional information on updates. The material provided by NLS is very elaborate and easy to understand.

     

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    After completing your studies, you started working at Emmay HR Services Pvt. Ltd. as a Legal Assistant. What is the state of HR Departments in big and small companies?

    Emmay HR which is now Randstad India, is a recruitment company so impetus on HR policies was a given. The role required me to understand the different categories of employments, namely permanent, temporary, staffing and contractual. After being a part of various setups and sectors, I realized that there are pros and cons in big and small setups. In my view the HR departments in smaller companies are more connected to the employees and have better visibility on the employee concerns. Bigger companies have robust systems in place which makes daily activities / functions smoother for sure, but at some occasions lack the personal touch till an issue is brought at the forefront. That being said, the most compliant, organized and connected HR teams in my experience are found in a factory setup. Given the number of regulations and statutory requirements, a factory needs to follow, in terms of labourers/ workers; the HR team manages the HR function and to a certain extent statutory function for the organization.

     

    You then went on to work at Pangea3. How did you secure your appointment? What is an average day of a Senior Specialist like?

    Honestly, like any other law graduate I was not really sure of joining or even interviewing with an LPO at the time. LPO had just stepped in the legal industry at that time and we had no idea how and what the company looks into. A recruiter had reached me several times to consider Pangea3 (which was then not associated with Thomson Reuters) and after having multiple conversations, I finally decided to give it a try and that proved to be a right decision.

    In my role as a Senior Specialist, I functioned more as an extended team member of in house counsel teams for different companies. I was a part of the Corporate Team and more specifically the Contract Drafting Team. Amongst several projects I worked on as a Contract Drafting Attorney, I also worked on some Contract Abstraction projects. Simply put, Contract Abstraction is creating a summary or a snap shot of the executed contract, for the company to refer to. These summaries help the company to keep track of expired contracts and the provisions that were agreed on before; thus giving an insight into the contract without having to read the whole document. An average day as a Senior Specialist would comprise of contract drafting, reviewing and negotiating agreements, depending on the clients we cater to and if on a contract abstraction project, we would have specific targets of reviewing particular number of contracts; pretty much similar to the day of a non litigation lawyer.

     

    After a year and a half, you switched to Hindustan Unilever Pvt. Ltd. How can one make his presence felt in a large company like HUL? What was your work profile like?

    Unilever is a brand that everyone would like to be a part of, and when I got the opportunity I could not resist it. My profile was more of Indian litigation and contracts, where I had to co-ordinate with Advocates and counsels for the court cases and prepare documents. I wanted to try something different than my previous roles, so I had decided to move from a completely non litigation profile to a litigation profile, however after a few months in the system and attending court proceedings I realized it was not my interest so I had decided to return to non litigation. In any company for that matter, be it large or small, it is difficult to make your presence felt. In larger companies, the opportunities to shine are less frequent as you may have to wait a long time to be recognized if you missed one chance but then again if you show your skill you will succeed. I always keep in mind a message one of my seniors had told me “If you are not at the table, you are on the menu”.

     

    Currently, you work at Firmenich Aromatics India Pvt. Ltd. as a Legal Counsel (Global). Please describe your job profile for us.

    My role is primarily focused on drafting, reviewing and negotiating global agreements for all divisions in the organization, ranging from software license agreements, sale agreements, purchase agreements, et al across the globe. As an In House Counsel, I also look into company policies, their compliance, preparing training programs for the teams across all functions and partnering with the business teams to ensure adherence to policies and legal requirements. On an average day, I could be negotiating contracts with companies based anywhere in the world or discussing legal provisions with the commercial teams.

     

    You also hold an Advanced Diploma in Spanish from Instituto Hispania, Mumbai. Does the knowledge of an extra language give you an edge over your peers?

    Being born and brought up in Mumbai, it becomes a part of your characteristic to know at least three languages, which served as a foundation to learn languages quickly. I had chosen Spanish as I felt everyone at the time was focusing on French and I wanted to do something different.

    Knowing an extra language definitely gives you an edge; it opens up different avenues for you as an individual, and exposes you to a different culture. For instance, if one completes all levels of a foreign language, he/she could be an Indian lawyer who can work on a Spanish Contract without the assistance of a translator.

    Although I had to limit myself to three levels due to time constraints, basic proficiency in Spanish helped me immensely when I worked with Latin American clients and peers; and proved to be a training ground for me to deal with foreign accents. I do not think there is any specific foreign language that I would recommend for a law student, however if a student wants to work with European companies, French would be an ideal choice. Learning an additional language will always help you as a lawyer or even otherwise.

     

    You have only worked in the in-house legal department of companies. Why did you never try for a law firm job or a career in litigation?

    In my earlier days of law school, I had tried working for a litigation lawyer and after a month I realized that my interest did not lie there. So I tried interning with a law firm, which functioned as an extended arm of the in house counsel team as it focused on few clients at the time. That structure intrigued me. As a lawyer in a law firm, I was more focused on the letter of the law with no or limited access to the business or the commercial side of the company and I wanted to understand the business more closely, so I chose to work as an in house counsel.

     

    It is believed that the work of an in-house counsel is restricted compared to that of a law firm lawyer but the latter has less (or no) work-life balance. Do you think this is true?

    It’s a common misconception; in no way is the work of an In House Counsel restricted. I feel quite the contrary, as an In House Counsel you are forced to think out of the box and consider real business scenarios. You can no longer sit on the sideline and merely state the law, now you are a part of the decision making process and have a say in commercial provisions. As an In House Counsel, we have to wear two hats, one of a lawyer and the other of a commercial person. It is our responsibility to understand the business and ensure that the company complies with the legal requirements and also meets its commercial targets. An In House Counsel in the true sense is a business partner; attuning oneself to understand the business needs to meet targets is a task which requires business acumen and applying your legal knowledge as a lawyer, which does require us at times to burn the midnight oil and sacrifice holidays. That said, I think work-life balance is a personal choice, whether you are a part of a law firm, a company or working with a litigation lawyer, if we really want to do something we either do it or make excuses. My personal guide to maintain work life balance is Mr Narayan Murthy’s (co-founder of Infosys) letter to his employees on the subject.

     

    What must a law student keep in mind when wishing to pursue a career in corporate law? Is a degree like CS or MBL important for this field?

    While pursuing corporate law, a law student needs to keep an open mind. It is not essential that one can pursue a career in corporate law only in companies, one could gain in depth knowledge also by being a part of a LPO. So I would not restrict one’s aspirations to any specific sector of companies. An additional degree is always helpful, depending on the individual’s interests and future goals. If working as a corporate lawyer or understanding corporate law is the goal then MBL is the course for you, however if the intent is to ensure compliance, statutory related work, one should consider CS.

     

    Lastly, what message would you leave for our budding lawyers?

    From what I have learnt in the last eight plus years in the fraternity, I would suggest interning in different setups, litigation, law firms, companies, LPOs, et al. Today lawyers are more than just litigation lawyers, and subject matter experts. We are moving towards the new age, where lawyers are entrepreneurs and business oriented. Choose the area you like without any presumptions and prejudice. If you are passionate about what you do, you will create a niche for yourself.