Super Lawyer

Tag: Counsel

  • “No matter how much law school prepares us, real life challenges take you by surprise”- Goutham RV, Counsel at Trilegal

    “No matter how much law school prepares us, real life challenges take you by surprise”- Goutham RV, Counsel at Trilegal

    This Interview has been published by Pragya Chandni and and The SuperLawyer Team

    Can you share the pivotal moments or experiences that led you to pursue a career in law, especially in dispute resolution?

    My journey to law was somewhat pre-destined, but I had not accepted all the signs. Growing up, I frequently visited courts with my father, a trial lawyer. Ironically, those visits initially deterred me from considering a legal career. But my disinterest in traditional science subjects made the writing on the wall clearer. During my higher secondary education, I was introduced to the unique world of law schools. This new perspective piqued my curiosity, and eventually, I found myself at NALSAR.

    It was during my time in law school that my path – as a disputes lawyer – became clearer. Reading Justice HR Khanna’s “Neither Roses Nor Thorns” profoundly influenced me. His principled stand in the Habeas Corpus case, especially his dissent, was both inspiring and instructive – this continues to be my favourite judgment and anchor of sorts.

    During law school, all my internships, predominantly centred around dispute resolution and this further cemented my interest. I saw first-hand, how enjoyable advocacy was and I resonated with it and took an active interest in moot courts. Come placement time, I heard NSE was visiting college for recruitment. Given that there are only a couple of exchanges in the country, and the role on offer involved litigation management, it made sense to work at NSE.  My selection for this position marked a significant turning point.

    Working at the Exchange, I was involved in several high-stakes litigation cases. While I prepared for the cases in detail and worked on strategies with external counsel, it was in the courtroom, as an observer, that I felt my calling to litigation. These moments in court crystallized my decision to transition from an in-house role to becoming a litigating lawyer. My mentor at NSE encouraged this shift, and Trilegal, where I now work, gave me the opportunity to realize this aspiration. The rest, as they say, is history.

    Your experience at NSE involved handling multi-faceted regulatory disputes. Can you shed light on the challenges you faced and the strategies you employed to navigate such complex regulatory issues?

    No matter how much law school prepares us, real life challenges take you by surprise. Although we studied a few of the legislations pertaining to the securities market, it is such a niche area with heavy regulatory oversight that the first few months felt like a return to the academic rigor of college.

    The first crucial lesson at NSE was understanding its dual nature. Firstly, it acts as a regulator of first instance, governed not only by a myriad of laws such as SCRA, SECC, and the SEBI Act but also by its own set of Byelaws, Rules, and Regulations. These are essential in overseeing every facet of the Exchange’s operations. Secondly, the Exchange operates like any other business, facing similar risks and requiring innovative strategies to remain competitive. My role was to bridge these two aspects seamlessly. This meant ensuring that new product ideas proposed by the business teams aligned with the regulatory framework established by SEBI. One strategy I personally employed revolved around prioritizing the Exchange’s regulatory responsibilities, ensuring all other initiatives conformed to this framework. A testament to this balancing act was our success in obtaining an exemption from the CFTC, a major U.S. regulator. This achievement, though time-consuming and challenging, was a significant milestone for us.

    As a key member of NSE’s proposed IPO team, could you share some takeaways from working on such high-stakes projects?

    Working on the NSE’s proposed IPO was a lesson in managing a multifaceted operation involving numerous stakeholders. You have the Company, the selling shareholders, the BRLMs, the Bankers, the Auditors, separate legal counsels for each of these stakeholders etc., and the Exchange’s proposed IPO was a landmark project for all involved. This complex process demanded extensive efforts from every department within the Exchange, with the legal team being no exception. In addition to providing information on the outstanding material litigations, we were also liaising with our internal teams and the Exchange’s external legal counsels (both domestic and foreign), who held the pen on the DRHP. Further, we were negotiating and finalizing all other agreements with the multiple intermediaries, all of which had its own challenges. 

    For me, the process was immensely challenging yet fulfilling. Successfully filing the DRHP within the established timeframe was a testament to our collective hard work and coordination. The experience underscored a vital management lesson for me: with well-defined goals, clear role delineation, and assigned responsibilities, even the most daunting tasks and deadlines are achievable. This endeavour reinforced the wisdom of the adage, “If you want to walk fast, walk alone. But if you want to walk far, walk together.” It was a powerful reminder of the strength in collaboration and shared purpose.

    Apart from the above, another intriguing aspect I gleaned from the IPO process is the concept of “self-listing.” Ordinarily, a company selects a stock exchange for its public listing. However, when stock exchanges themselves decide to go public, they have the option to list on their own platforms, a choice motivated by various factors. This practice is permitted in some jurisdictions, but my understanding is that SEBI ultimately did not endorse this approach. As a result, the country’s exchanges have to list on the competitor bourse. 

    Transitioning from being a Deputy Manager at the National Stock Exchange to becoming a Counsel at Trilegal seems like a significant shift. What motivated this transition, and how did your role at NSE influence your current focus on dispute resolution?

    At its heart, advocacy is about effective communication. This involves understanding the law, applying it to the facts of your case and ultimately seeking a relief for your client. This aspect of the legal profession has always been deeply fulfilling to me. While at NSE, I found myself on the periphery of advocacy, close yet not fully immersed. Thus, my transition from in-house role was motivated by my need to be in the driver’s seat. My confidence in my communication skills drew me towards dispute resolution.

    Coming from an in-house background, I had a clear understanding of the motivations behind corporate litigation, whether for strategic positioning, financial gains, reputation management, preserving shareholder value, or avoiding setting precedents. This insight has been invaluable at Trilegal, where I can effectively align with and contribute to our clients’ litigation objectives. My tenure at NSE taught me the importance of understanding the fundamentals first – we had to learn how a service / product worked, the legal and regulatory regime / challenges around it, the external risk-factors etc. and break all of this down to a Judge, who did not necessarily specialize in the securities market. This is an approach I continue to adopt with my current Clients and their cases. By understanding a client’s business and the rationale behind their litigation, I can create a clear and effective legal strategy. Therefore, lessons learnt during my time at NSE continue to be guiding lessons / principles in my current work.

    Moving to your current role at Trilegal, you deal with a wide range of matters, from civil / commercial disputes to white-collar crimes. How do you approach these matters across diverse areas of law, and what challenges do you typically encounter?

    The firm receives a wide-range of commercial disputes mandates – arising from large shareholder disputes, complex lending transactions, cross-border IP disputes, the list goes on. Similarly, the firm also receives a wide ranging white-collar crime mandates – say internal investigations into corporate espionage, IP theft, misappropriation of funds etc., and these may result into various kind of proceedings before the Criminal Courts. In addition, we routinely appear in mandates challenging local municipal laws, arbitrary government action and the like. The challenges we face in these mandates vary – it could be us dealing with foreign clients who are new to Indian legal ecosystem (and thus managing expectations), not having the luxury of time, logistical challenges in execution of a strategy, to name a few.  

    The approach I adopt in all these matters, irrespective of the diverse areas of law, is rudimentary. First, we meticulously review all the documents Clients share and prepare a comprehensive chronology of events – noting even seemingly minor details relevant to the case. Second, deep dive into the relevant laws, revisiting first principles, statutes and commentaries rather than relying solely on online resources or case law databases. This critical process helps identify both the strengths and potential obstacles in the client’s case. Third, once we have the legal and factual framework, we strategize the most effective path to achieve the client’s goals. This process will include all stakeholders internally, including the Partner. Once we internally deliberate this, we go back to the Client and give them all the options on how we can drive the matter and go on about executing it, based on their instructions. In my experience, these initial steps are crucial for successful outcomes and managing multiple cases simultaneously.

    During your time as a secondee at Allstate India, what was your role? How did this experience impact your perspective on the intersection of legal and business functions?

    At Allstate, my role was essentially that of an in-house counsel, a position I was already familiar with. My primary responsibilities included managing contracts and providing internal legal advice.  My background in dispute resolution enabled me to identify red flags in the standard contracts and negotiate more effectively with vendors and their legal counsels. Over time, I gained insights into the company’s common legal challenges, leading us to review and streamline their standard contract templates.

    In my opinion, most companies see their legal team as cost centres,. he business teams which are keen on getting the revenue, see the legal team as roadblocks or business barriers. This perspective can lead to business teams overlooking crucial contractual provisions such as indemnities, representations, warranties, and dispute resolution clauses, either due to a lack of understanding or the misconception that these are mere boilerplates not warranting attention. While it’s true that these clauses may never be invoked during the life of the agreement if all things go smoothly and as planned, the real value of a well-negotiated indemnity clause, for instance, becomes evident in challenging times, potentially shifting liability away from the company. So this stint reaffirmed my belief that a strong in-house legal team is not merely a cost-centre, but a vital asset that can prevent unnecessary expenditures. Such teams can actually be very effective in ring-fencing the Company from foreseeable and unforeseen risks, thereby preventing value erosion. A competent legal department is instrumental in balancing business aspirations with realistic legal perspectives, ensuring a holistic approach to risk management and decision-making – a message that I reiterate to business teams I work with usually. 

    With your extensive experience in handling high-value disputes, could you share a specific case that posed unique challenges and the strategies you employed to achieve a favorable outcome?

    While there are several cases I could reference, confidentiality constraints prevent me from sharing specific names or details. It is key to note that each case throws unique challenges of its own and as such, our strategies need to be flexible and adaptable. A rigid litigation strategy often leads to less desirable outcomes.

    For instance, in a case involving a shareholder dispute with a foreign institutional investor client, the primary conflict was between domestic institutional investors and the company’s promoters, who had made broad allegations that also implicated our client. Initially, we planned to respond to these allegations directly. However, we soon realized that such a strategy would unnecessarily draw attention to our client in a dispute that was primarily between other parties. Consequently, we revised our approach, choosing to specifically address only the most serious allegations and then shifted our focus to the legal intricacies of the case. This allowed us to take a more reserved role. As the conflict escalated, involving cross-appeals and arbitrations, our client began to be perceived as a neutral entity and was gradually removed from the core of the dispute (we were either formal parties or not arrayed as a respondent altogether). This strategic shift not only limited our client’s legal expenses but also enabled them to divest from the company without loss.

    Contrastingly, in another shareholder dispute, our approach was entirely different. We aggressively addressed each allegation and actively litigated before various foras, to preserve shareholder value and safeguard company assets, amidst a battle between majority and minority stakeholders. This experience underlined the importance of maintaining a dynamic and responsive strategy in litigation.

    As an alumnus of the National Academy for Legal Studies and Research (NALSAR), Hyderabad, what aspects of your legal education do you believe have been most valuable in shaping your career? Additionally, what advice would you give to fresh graduates aspiring to pursue a career in law based on your journey so far?

    Reflecting on my academic journey at NALSAR, Hyderabad, I realize it’s a narrative too rich and complex for a brief summary. Suffice to say, the true value of NALSAR lay in its exceptional faculty, who fostered an environment of independent and critical thinking – a mode of learning that was entirely novel to me. Equally significant was the company of my peers, a group of incredibly driven individuals with clear objectives and ambitions. Their presence was a constant source of motivation, pushing me to surpass my perceived limitations and achieve things I never thought possible.

    Looking back, the most crucial lesson from my college experience is the belief in the boundless potential within ourselves. To the graduates embarking on their legal careers, I want to impart this wisdom: the path may seem daunting, and it’s natural to feel overshadowed by others who appear more accomplished. However, remember that your journey is unique and will unfold in its own time. Treat yourself with kindness, acknowledge your achievements, and maintain patience, a vital trait for any legal professional. Trust in your journey, and know that perseverance will guide you to your destination.

    Lastly, for those looking to have a career in disputes resolution at law firms, do you have any tips / suggestions?

    I believe litigation – whether in a law firm or independently – requires the same set of skills. Law firm cases may often be high-stake or involve significant amounts, but the fundamental approach remains the same. A few things to consider: 

    • Integrity is key to this profession and your reputation. Do not rely on shortcuts and keep all your dealings above board. 
    • Patience is crucial. You might find yourself waiting for extended periods in court, only to speak for a brief minute. Achieving the results your client desires often requires persistent effort and time. Stay patient.
    • Time management is essential, especially early in your career when tasks may seem overwhelming. Gradually, it becomes more manageable. Be prepared to deal with urgent cases and client demands, sometimes with little notice. It’s better to devote extra time to fully understand a case than to be unprepared in court.
    • Develop a reliable process. Being thoroughly acquainted with both the facts of your case and the relevant law is vital. Establish a method that works for you and apply it consistently to each new client or case. 
    • Emphasize teamwork, particularly in a law firm setting. You’ll likely be handling multiple cases simultaneously, so coordinating effectively with your team is key. Remember, you can’t be in two places (read as court halls) at once, so dependability and ownership are important.
    • A quick and sharp presence of mind is essential for dispute resolution lawyers. While you can take time to respond to client queries, the same isn’t true in court. Being unprepared could lead to immediate decisions from the judge, potentially unfavourable to your case.
    • Understanding the concepts is far more important than knowing sections / citations. The concepts should be so clear, that even a common man can understand your iteration of it.  

    Get in touch with Goutham RV-

  • “It’s about being honest to yourself and respecting yourself by asking what would you want as a client, opponent or colleague for that matter” – Ajesh Kumar Shankar, Founder of AKS Law Associates

    “It’s about being honest to yourself and respecting yourself by asking what would you want as a client, opponent or colleague for that matter” – Ajesh Kumar Shankar, Founder of AKS Law Associates

    This interview has been published by Namrata Singh and The SuperLawyer Team

    We are extremely delighted to have you with us for this interview. Can you please introduce yourself, highlighting your journey from the establishment of AKS Law Associates in 1999 to becoming a prominent figure in the Indian legal fraternity?

    I was in the computer field back in the mid-nineties. Back then, I used to occasionally accompany my folks to meet with lawyers, either seeking advice or to engage them in a matter. It was a learning curve, to understand the complexity of law and/or that it was near to impossible to have a clear vision of the road ahead. So, on the one side, I was professionally engaged in the computer field wherein we were promising solutions for business enterprises with a certain amount of predictability, efficiency and transparency whereas, the real-life legal problems had the dusty road ahead. Intrigued, I studied law. Fascinated by the subject of law and its complexity, I started my independent legal practice after training for about a year under my senior.  For the first 10 years or so, I was predominantly engaged in chamber practice by advising clients in general corporate law and especially in Real Estate law. After 2009, I started attending Courts regularly and have been conducting matters before courts and tribunals across India. I have had the good fortune of appearing before the Supreme Court of India. There have been interesting cases addressed by me before International Arbitration Tribunals and the High Courts of Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai. As far as possible, I take instructions directly from the client and 9.9999 on 10, do not engage any Senior Counsel. I insist that my young colleagues in office must conduct a trial/argue a matter before the High Court. As far as possible practically, adjournment is not an option in our office. We have a small practice and keep a close connection with our clients. If we do not meet the client’s expectations, we own up to our shortcomings and do not pass the buck. What we try to do, in our first meet which is on the house, is to give the client a road map of their case’s journey to set expectations.

    Your areas of practice range from international arbitration to corporate advisory. How do you navigate the diverse challenges posed by different legal domains, and what aspects of your practice do you find most fulfilling?

    Every case is unique. I do not take up any matters concerning matrimonial disputes, service matters, direct and indirect tax. A client wants to hear the problem first and the solution thereafter, especially when it comes to corporate advisory in agreements. Due to our varied experiences in litigation, we can quickly identify the potholes and crossroads in an agreement and the challenges that may come up. Clients weigh in on our experiences in litigation to assist them in identifying clauses in an agreement that may be problematic and also offer solutions when such problems do arise.  As we work very closely with clients and the owners/ top management we have some understanding of their businesses and what they expect out of a dispute. Once we have clarity as to what is a client’s expectation, then to advise them on the legitimacy of their expectations or what would be the best outcomes is quite straightforward. We do not take up a case that we do not feel that we can address. The broad spectrum of cases we take up is because we are confident that we can address the issue in the matter. This is backed by painstaking research and understanding as to what could be the possible outcomes. If it’s an untrodden field, we take a reasonable lead time and tell the client that we lack prior experience in the matter. Quite often, clients come to us in areas we have never worked with to consider if we would approach the matter differently and many a time this has worked well for the client.

    Your commitment to pro bono cases and public interest litigation is commendable. What drives your passion for social justice, and Could you share a memorable experience where your legal expertise made a significant impact on social justice or community welfare?

    India is a land of plenty of everything. For over a decade, I have chosen to provide free legal services for economically weaker persons and work towards creating an efficient legal structure in solid-waste management. There are many anonymous Indians who do a lot, yet they do not find a place on the newsfeed and they are not interested either.  When we take on a pro bono case, the client gets equal treatment as a paid client. I believe that every legal professional must extend themselves to the community/ persons who need them the most. When you go and have a meal with a person who has had a legal closure of their case and you have had a small role in it, the satisfaction you get is much more than being paid by a corporate. I had a client who came to me with a matter where he had signed an agreement at terms that were patently unfavourable to him and he was forced to sign up for a song, he was in financially difficult circumstances and there was a good possibility that his land was going away. After being turned down by many prominent lawyers, he came to me. I confessed that I had no prior experience in dealing with the matter but I would put in an effort if he agreed. The matter was argued by me successfully from the Trial Court up to the Supreme Court and the client ended up with a fortune. 

    Your profile reflects a multifaceted personality with diverse interests such as equestrian sports, chess, running, yoga, and continuing education. How do these passions contribute to your life?

    You have one life, live it and enjoy it to the fullest! I do enjoy exploring my mind and my fears. Many of my decisions have been taken after a long ride with my horse, Ziggy. The best place to be in the world is on horseback… ride one to know it. Playing chess at school helped me to be patient and analyse people’s moves. Chess is such a challenging game and no two games of chess or players are the same. I tried to be fit and I started yoga to experience my inner and external journey of mind, body and soul, with my teachers at the Iyengar school. Learning is a lifelong process and learning for me is to improve my mental gym.

    Upholding the highest ethical standards is a hallmark of your practice. How do you ensure transparency for clients and fairness to opponents while navigating complex legal matters?

    Character must not change. You might get a good reputation if you win many cases, which may not be true if you lose many. It’s about being honest to yourself and respecting yourself by asking what would you want as a client, opponent or colleague for that matter. I would always be ready to apologize to anyone if I have made a mistake or hurt someone. Etiquette to your client opponent and colleagues is not limited to good language skills, it’s about being clear and laying all cards on the table. This helps you to have a committed client and respect from your opponent and colleagues. It is very important to note that while you may not be aware, others observe you and learn from your good and bad. Therefore, it does not cost anything to be a good human being, so why not?

    Your legal outreach initiative focuses on creating legal awareness and education in local communities. What inspired you to take up this initiative, and how do you see it making a difference in the lives of people?

    Many decisions are because you do not know your rights. We spend time educating and creating legal awareness in communities to enhance people’s knowledge about their rights which would help them in making decisions. Some of the most basic legally binding decisions that stare you in the face, are because you did not know better. I have seen this at home. As we come from an army background, going to lawyers was not naturally a done thing unlike how businessmen utilise the services. My folks have had to suffer serious hardships because they were not informed of their legal rights. This has always been in the back of my mind. Therefore, as promised early in my career as a lawyer, I have always been engaged in legal awareness with communities, senior citizens and lonely parents.

    You actively mentor younger lawyers to expand access to legal services. How do you approach mentorship, and what advice do you offer to aspiring lawyers entering the legal profession?

    I refer to all lawyers as colleagues. Once a lawyer has a license to practice we are all equal. The same lawyer younger in age may turn out to be a judge before whom we have to appear and say ‘M’lord’. That’s the most interesting part of the legal profession, there are no limits as to what you can achieve. It is only dependent on you. If you want to be a paper pusher or adjournment lawyer – you can. Or, if you want to be a Palkhiwala – you can. I spend and invest a lot of my time with my colleagues, running through their cases and preparing them for the matter by reviewing drafts, and agreeing on approaches for trial or final hearing. This helps them to be confident as they are well prepared. My only request to them is to do the same for their colleagues. 

    What advice would you offer to the coming generation of lawyers, considering the evolving landscape of legal practice and the societal challenges we face? Could you share a personal or professional mantra that has guided you throughout your career and continues to inspire your work at AKS Law Associates?

    The legal landscape is changing, it has increasingly no place for paper pushers or adjournment lawyers. The young, dynamic and hardworking professionals are dominating the field as either lawyers or judges. Technology is playing a larger role than ever. International arbitration is now becoming commonplace. If you want to find your niche and grow that practice, do it early. Have a general broader practice so that you can have an ear to the ground and earn a steady income and at the same time focus on growing your niche. Small is big! Clients want your time and they are willing to pay for it so long as you deliver. You don’t need a fancy name to your visiting card or a fancy office to start with; you need to focus on understanding how to resolve the client’s issue and after that it is a home run.

    Get in touch with Ajesh Kumar Shankar-

  • “People can be either destined for something or they can find the determination to get it” – Palash S Singhai, Advocate-on-Record, Supreme Court of India.

    “People can be either destined for something or they can find the determination to get it” – Palash S Singhai, Advocate-on-Record, Supreme Court of India.

    This interview has been published by Namrata Singh and The SuperLawyer Team

    Palash, your journey from assisting your father at the District Court to becoming an Advocate on Record at the Supreme Court is remarkable. What sparked your interest in law despite not initially considering it as a career option?

    I think people can be either destined for something or they can find the determination to get it. The advantages and pitfalls are many and, and yet it can work either way as long as we understand what we must do. I chose to study law and become a lawyer and I had some idea about what to expect. My father is a lawyer too, and he was my first mentor. After I finished high school, I started assisting my father in matters before District Courts. But when it came to choosing a career, neither of my parents persuaded me to study law. In fact, once I got enrolled into the law school, my father told me that he will not have me as a junior and that I had to find my own way. I know his intention was to ensure that I don’t get comfortable with the thought that I can just go back and join him. Sometimes you do better when things are not already decided for you. So, despite law being in my destiny, I chose it and I enjoy it everyday.

    As one explores further and learns more aspects of law practice, the excitement and zeal to learn only grows. But with this excitement, it is also important to remember that our work affects other people. So I try to be punctual at work and make sure to be present in courts whenever a matter is listed. I try to be diligent in preparing my case briefs and be ready to make submissions. For me there was no plan B and so I make sure that I am prepared for the challenges that litigation brings and I stay determined.

    You’ve had the opportunity to work on diverse cases, from representing a leading Infrastructure Company in arbitral proceedings to handling matters related to oppression and mismanagement. Is there a specific type of case or legal challenge that you find particularly stimulating or rewarding?  

    As a lawyer you have to be always ready for a variety of briefs. A new challenge comes with every new case. According to me, the best way to start preparing for a matter is to first read and understand all the relevant provisions of law, the statutory mechanisms, the procedures and the legislative intent of that law. From this, it becomes easier to proceed in the matter. The next step would be to marshal the facts. This enables us to be the master of the brief. If there is a chink in the armor, then we must know it. Unless we have complete control over the facts, there will always be some room for doubt. The best part about law is that it keeps evolving, so we can always read more and improve the arguments. However, the facts remain constant. Knowing all the relevant facts beforehand is not only crucial for the initial stages of a legal dispute, but also for appeals and petitions against a bad order. 

    It goes without saying that every new case is rewarding as it brings new challenges and the opportunity to overcome them. It also brings the opportunity to learn and to be more informed, articulate, and proficient. If you deal in diverse matters, you can draw a corollary from other laws and apply them to the case in hand to compare where the relevant law does not cover a certain aspect. If you know more, you can create a more convincing argument.

    You’ve been involved in a diverse range of legal matters, from commercial litigation to arbitration. When you’re not deep in legal intricacies, what’s something about Palash that people might be surprised to learn? 

    As lawyers, we are required to constantly juggle between courts, conferences, office, and whatnot. Since the time is always limited, we must utilize it properly and wisely. I have been fortunate to work in the organizations where I was given the liberty to set my own deadlines and prioritize my tasks accordingly. This also gives me a chance to keep up with my interests and hobbies. On most weekends, I play cricket or badminton with friends or we just end up spending some quality time with great conversations and movies etc. Being away from the family, this is a great way to feel comfortable in midst of all the stress. During the court vacations, I plan my travels and to try to get away from all this hustle bustle and to just explore places and food! I also never miss the annual “Jashn-e-Rekhta” in Delhi. Something which is surprising about me needs to be asked from my friends and colleagues because I spent most of my time around them so I think they are in a better position to point out something which is not very common about me.

    Being deeply committed to your work, you mentioned missing the football world cup final for your exams. How do you balance your passion for sports, particularly football, with the demands of a legal career?

    As I said, lawyers need to juggle between things and it is not as easy for everyone to find a good work life balance. I have seen my friends working till midnight or after that as well, working on weekends, holidays, festivals and on many other occasions. But I think we can all learn how to manage our time and work. Our profession demands utmost dedication, however, post Covid-19 era, I have realized that deadlines can be pushed when it comes to the health and well-being of a person. I never compromise on my health, but I also never make it a reason for deliberately delaying any important work. There is a difference between needing some personal time and merely making excuses, and I learnt that as soon as I stepped into this profession. 

    Staying involved in sports activities also helps. For me, sports, even if you just watch it, is the best way to release all the work pressure and helps in rejuvenating. I am a football geek. I had planned to watch the UEFA Champions League Final in Istanbul in May 2020 but then Covid-19 happened and it ruined all my plans. Then again, I had planned to attend the Football World Cup Final in Qatar, 2022. This time again my AoR exam was on the horizon and that was of course the priority. The exam was scheduled on the very next day of the Finals between Argentina and France. It was a legendary match and since I had decided not to watch it at all, my phone was flooded with calls and texts from all my friends and colleagues who begged me to just watch the game for some time. I didn’t and I don’t regret that decision as I cleared the exam and became an AoR which is a bigger achievement for me.

    Despite all these, I keep a slot blocked either on Saturday or Sunday first half for the sports be it football, badminton or cricket. I think this much I deserve after working sincerely for the entire week.

    It’s admirable that you take on pro bono matters for those who face financial constraints in seeking justice. Can you share a rewarding experience from one of these cases that left a lasting impact on you?

    One of my seniors during my initial days in the profession told me very frankly that I should start my career by focusing on briefs rather than money. That the money will chase you if you justify the work. I kept his words in mind as I started taking up my own briefs and made sure to never focus on fees or ask for it before understanding the matter as well as the client. Someone once referred my name to a daily wage earner from a small village in Uttar Pradesh and told him that I won’t charge too much for his case. When I met that person, he told me how he had lost his child due to electrocution and the police had filed a closure report in the matter. He was desperate to be heard and so he offered some money in advance hoping to persuade me to take up the matter. I told him that I will take it once the matter progresses. In the end, we succeeded before the court and the person came back for my fees. I politely declined and told him to use it for his betterment. To this day, that person has referred numerous other briefs from his locality, and I think in a way, the advice from my Senior has really paid off. Also taking up a pro bono matter makes us understand the ground reality of the justice system in our Country. Not everyone can afford to engage big law firms and big counsels for their matters and the cases, despite being genuine, suffer due to the complex legal system and lack of resources. Every once in a while, if we can give them some representation and put our equal efforts for their best interest, we will understand why this is a noble profession. At the end of the day, everyone is entitled for just and fair legal assistance and as a lawyer I feel it is my duty to perform my part by doing whatever it takes and to the best of my abilities.

    In addition to your legal pursuits, you’ve been associated with different law firms and chambers. How do you define the role played by the chamber/firm/offices in shaping your career?

    I have worked with different organizations wherein I have worked for various clients. In this profession, working in a law chamber is very different from the firms. All these organizations have their own practice, procedure, work culture etc. which helps us to realize what is a best suited environment for us. This has played a very crucial role in my career as it helped me to decide how I want to proceed in the profession. Unfortunately, I have not worked with a Tier 1 firm but the boutique firms and law chambers have given me my career objective. My inclination was always towards the law chambers as they never had any specific or dedicated team for a practice area which helped me to have diverse cases and to be very frank and independent to appear, argue and appeal (in case anything goes wrong). I am grateful to the chambers where I have worked because there only, I realized my potential, my zeal and enthusiasm towards this profession. By no means I am trying to dishonor the working environment of the firms but I am just explaining how I have realized what is going to be the best recourse for my future.

    As someone who has cleared the Advocate on Record examination on the first attempt, what advice would you give to law students or aspiring lawyers who are navigating their early years in the legal profession?

    I always feel that I have always benefited from the advice and guidance of my Seniors in this profession. One has to grasp the good qualities from their Seniors which had benefited them in the profession. I still remember that during the initial days in the profession my Senior told me that I have to be thorough with the brief even if I have to take an adjournment in the matter. This helped me a lot as whenever I entered any court, I used to have my brief and a brief note on the matter so as and when if the judge is asking about the matter or even a date of event, I am in a position to answer the same without any hesitation and it will give an impression that the adjournment has not been sought just to delay the matter. Another piece of advice I received from my Senior was not to waste time while waiting for your matter in court. I was told to observe and hear the arguments in the court and see how different lawyers come up with their own strategy for making submissions and bringing fresh judgments which I might find useful in near future. This was immensely helpful during the preparations for the AoR exam as well. While I was preparing, I was hard pressed for time due to the ongoing matters, drafting etc. so I decided while waiting for my matter in court I will start making notes of the submissions of the lawyers to speed up my writing skills. In the end I feel that it worked to my advantage. 

    Get in Touch with Palash S Singhai-

  • “From Mumbai Courts to High-Profile Cases: A Chronicle of Legal Excellence and Advocacy Leadership,” Also known for his unwavering commitment to justice, innovative approach, and diverse expertise – Advocate Hitesh Ramchandani

    “From Mumbai Courts to High-Profile Cases: A Chronicle of Legal Excellence and Advocacy Leadership,” Also known for his unwavering commitment to justice, innovative approach, and diverse expertise – Advocate Hitesh Ramchandani

    This interview has been published by  Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Hitesh your legal journey has taken you to various courts and forums, representing clients at a national level. If you were to encapsulate your advocacy career in a tweet length summary what would it say?

    Being a Second generation lawyer, I persuaded my family that I want to be a lawyer and make a good career in law. To be very frank, I must say the journey in this legal profession has been a roller coaster ride for me. Let’s dive back in time to know more about why and how I chose the legal profession as a career. In the year 2005, I did my schooling from St. Pius X High School.  I was least interested in accounts so it was easy for me to make up my mind about not pursuing CA/CS Course for sure. I always had dreamed to pursue Law from top law Schools either from KC Law College or Government Law College in Mumbai. With Parents Blessings, in the year 2010 I pursued my Law from KC Law College, Churchgate Mumbai and I graduated law in the year 2013. In the Year 2013, I was enrolled as an Advocate with the Bar Council of Maharashtra & Goa.

    I have dedicated my career to defending the rights of individuals and organizations across India’s diverse legal landscape. My unwavering commitment to justice has earned me a reputation as a formidable force in the courtroom.

    My Expertise spans a broad spectrum of legal domains, including corporate law, Criminal law, Family Law, Consumer law, Labour Law and constitutional law.

    A staunch proponent of the rule of law, I am renowned for my meticulous preparation, persuasive arguments, and unwavering dedication to my clients’ best interests. 

    Beyond the courtroom, I am actively engaged in shaping the legal landscape through my contributions to legal education and professional development initiatives. I am always a speaker and mentor, inspiring aspiring lawyers to uphold the highest standards of legal practice.

    My legal journey is an embodiment of unwavering commitment to justice and a deep-seated belief in the power of law to transform lives. I stand as a beacon of hope for those seeking legal recourse, demonstrating the transformative impact of a dedicated legal professional.

    Your practice covers a diverse range of legal areas. From Family courts to National company Law Tribunal. Is there a specific type of case or legal matter that you find particularly intriguing or challenging ? Could you share an experience that stood out in your career?

    One intriguing type of case in family court involves navigating complex child custody disputes in the context of international relocation. These cases often arise when one parent wishes to move abroad with the child, potentially impacting the other parent’s access and involvement in the child’s life. They entail multifaceted considerations, including the child’s best interests, maintaining relationships with both parents, cultural adjustments, and legal complexities across different jurisdictions. The intricacies of international law, cultural factors, and the emotional dynamics involved make these cases both challenging and fascinating from a legal standpoint. Finding a resolution that prioritizes the child’s welfare while addressing the rights of both parents within an international context requires a delicate balance and often involves creative legal arguments and mediation strategies.

    As someone who has conducted lectures and served as a judge in Moot court Competitions, what’s one legal misconception you’ve encountered that you find yourself debunking frequently.

    One legal misconception that often requires debunking is the belief that the law operates in absolute black-and-white terms. The reality is that the law is often nuanced and context-dependent, shaped by various factors including precedents, legislative intent, and evolving societal norms. Encountering the misconception that legal matters always have a clear-cut right or wrong solution is common. In educating aspiring legal minds, I emphasize the importance of understanding the complexities within the law, acknowledging that interpretations can vary, and advocating for the exploration of multiple perspectives to arrive at a well-reasoned and just conclusion.

    As the President of the Maharashtra Mediation Cell at IEFCI (International Economic Forum for Commerce and Industry), you’re involved in Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). What drew you to this field and how do you approach mediating disputes to achieve amicable settlements

    I am drawn to the field of alternative dispute resolution (ADR) because I believe it is a more efficient and effective way to resolve disputes than traditional litigation. ADR processes are typically less adversarial and more collaborative than litigation, which can help to preserve relationships between the parties involved. Additionally, ADR processes are often more cost-effective than litigation.

    When mediating disputes, I use a facilitative approach. This means that I help the parties to identify the issues in their dispute and to develop their own solutions. I do not impose my own solutions on the parties, but rather I help them to reach a mutually agreeable resolution.

    ADR’s appeal lies in its capacity to facilitate constructive dialogue and foster mutually beneficial resolutions outside the courtroom. My interest in this field stems from a belief in the power of mediation to empower parties in dispute by providing them with a voice in the resolution process. I approach mediation by prioritizing active listening, fostering empathy, and encouraging open communication. By creating a conducive environment for dialogue, I aim to identify common ground, encourage collaborative problem-solving, and guide parties toward crafting their own, mutually acceptable solutions, ultimately aiming for amicable settlements that address the interests of all involved.

    Handling cases involving Bollywood celebrities and public interest litigations against regulatory authorities is quite unique , Can you share a bit about experience of handling high profile cases and how do you navigate the intricacies that come with such cases?

    Handling such cases demands a unique approach due to media scrutiny, public interest, and often, heightened emotions involved. Maintaining confidentiality while managing public perception is key. Detailed preparation, strategic communication, and a focus on legal nuances are crucial. Building strong client relationships and ensuring clear expectations help manage the complexities. Navigating these cases requires a delicate balance between legal expertise, public relations, and a thorough understanding of the industry’s dynamics.

    Outside the legal realm, what hobby or activity that brings you joy and relaxation serving as a counterbalance to the intensity of legal proceedings?

    Outside the legal realm, one activity that brings me immense joy and serves as a perfect counterbalance to the intensity of legal proceedings is photography. Capturing moments through a lens allows me to immerse myself in the beauty of the world, offering a serene escape from the intricacies of the legal sphere. The creative aspect of composing shots and exploring different perspectives brings a sense of calm and rejuvenation, offering a much-needed balance to the demanding nature of legal work. 

    Your commitment to providing the best legal representation to your clients is evident Outside the courtroom, what’s one piece of advice you find yourself frequently giving to individuals facing legal challenges whether they are corporations or private parties.

    One recurring piece of advice I often offer to individuals, whether they’re part of a corporation or private parties, when facing legal challenges is to prioritize communication and documentation. Clear and open communication between all involved parties is crucial in navigating legal matters effectively. Documenting every interaction, agreement, or important detail ensures a comprehensive record that can be pivotal in resolving disputes or presenting a strong case in court if needed. Whether it’s emails, meeting minutes, or formal agreements, maintaining a detailed record significantly strengthens your position and can serve as a valuable asset in achieving favourable outcomes. In Legal matters, patience is a must. Legal matters can take time to resolve. Be Patient with your Advocate / Counsel and trust that they are working in your best Interest. The Parties should also consider the Alternative Dispute Resolution process to resolve legal disputes without going to Court. This can be a more cost effective and efficient way to resolve your legal issues. The parties should not panic in any situation, it is normal to feel stressed and overwhelmed when you are facing legal challenges. However it is important to stay calm and rational. I always advise everyone that if you think the legal issue is simple, it is always best to consult with an Advocate. An Advocate can help you avoid making mistakes that could jeopardize your case.  

    As a seasonal advocate how do you see the current generation of legal professionals contributing to the evolution of traditional legal practices? What advice would you give to young advocates navigating the modern legal landscape? 

    The current generation of legal professionals is actively reshaping traditional legal practice through technological integration, diversified skill sets, and a dynamic approach to client representation. Embracing advancements in legal tech, they’re leveraging AI-powered research tools, online platforms for case management, and virtual courtrooms to streamline processes and enhance efficiency. Moreover, this generation is recognizing the importance of interdisciplinary knowledge, incorporating business acumen, technology expertise, and communication skills into their legal repertoire. To young advocates navigating this modern landscape, I advise embracing technological advancements while maintaining a strong foundation in legal principles. Continuously upskill by learning about emerging technologies and their applications in law. Cultivate a diverse skill set, including negotiation, critical thinking, and adaptability. Building a strong network within and outside the legal sphere can also be pivotal for career growth and opportunities in this evolving legal landscape. One more thing, everything progresses at its own pace, so never feel frustrated/agitated if something is not happening at your whims/desires time and destiny will certainly make it happen for you if you are honest and keen about it.

    Get in touch with Adv. Hitesh Ramchandani –

  • Legal Strategy is one of the most critical aspects in litigation. A good legal strategy acts as the bedrock on which the entire case is constructed – Embark on an insightful journey with Shaurya Sahay, a seasoned Advocate-on-Record and Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh.

    Legal Strategy is one of the most critical aspects in litigation. A good legal strategy acts as the bedrock on which the entire case is constructed – Embark on an insightful journey with Shaurya Sahay, a seasoned Advocate-on-Record and Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh.

    This interview has been published by  Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Shaurya, your journey from being a law student to Advocate on Record and Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh is quite remarkable. How do you recall your starting years as a legal professional? Please share your insights and struggles which you came across to reach here.

    Being a first generation lawyer, I knew little to nothing about the legal profession when I stepped into law school. My early internships exposed me to the hallowed corridors of the Supreme Court and that is when I was truly motivated and determined to someday have a practice of my own in the Supreme Court. My starting years as a legal professional included some of the cliched’ travails of having a low salary, extremely long working hours, and the existential dread of how I would ‘make it’ in the profession. 

    As luck would have it however, I was blessed with a wonderful mentor, Mr. Amit Kumar, Sr. Advocate who took me under his wings and it is under his tutelage that I gained invaluable experience as a practicing advocate. I never refused any assignment that came my way and I learnt to always be prepared in each matter, and be ready to grasp any opportunity.  On certain occasions when my requests for Passovers in matters were turned down, and I was requested to argue the matter by the Bench, I found myself prepared and equipped to handle the matter. This led to initial successes and brought with it much needed optimism and motivated me to keep going. In my view, the biggest struggle for a first generation lawyer in litigation is to remain motivated, however, I overcame this challenge by remaining disciplined and focused on improving my skills. Eventually, my skill sets improved, and with it came more work and a steady flow of income.  

    While hard work is often the answer to most of the challenges in the profession, it is also important to give the required importance to other facets of personal life such as physical and mental health. Having a close circle of friends in the early days of the profession helped me maintain a balance between the personal and the professional aspects of life and proved instrumental in helping me navigate the more challenging days of the profession.

    As the Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh, you handle a wide range of litigations, from criminal disputes to matters related to Housing, Stamps, and Registration. What aspects of your role do you find most challenging and rewarding?

    Being the standing counsel for a State as large as Uttar Pradesh is a challenging but rewarding assignment. The biggest challenge being the sheer volume and diversity of cases one has to handle.  On most days, the assignment of Standing Counsel requires drafting multiple drafts, apart from having to argue several cases before different benches of the Supreme Court, therefore it is also important to keep abreast with the latest developments in the legal field.  Having to prepare for a heavy docket of matters, particularly on admission hearing days, i.e. Mondays and Fridays requires a strong support system. The importance of a good team of lawyers, clerks and office staff therefore cannot be overstated. In my personal opinion, one must try and identify a good team of colleagues, juniors and support staff as early as possible and invest in creating a team as early as possible. The diversity of cases to be handled also poses quite a challenge as the preparation of criminal cases requires a different approach when compared to civil cases. In particular, Land acquisition disputes are usually voluminous and therefore require rigorous preparation. 

    The most rewarding aspect of the assignment is the sheer exposure that it provides before the Supreme Court. As Standing Counsel, one gets to appear and argue before almost all courts of the Supreme Court, brief Senior Advocates, all of which helps gather invaluable experience.  The role of a Standing Counsel also provides an in-depth insight into the functioning of the Government. These are all extremely rewarding aspects of practice as Standing Counsel before the Hon’ble Supreme Court. To have the opportunity to handle such an assignment at a relatively young age is proving to be an extremely humbling experience.  

    As a Panel Counsel for the Government of Meghalaya, you were part of the team that successfully lifted the ban on coal mining. How do you approach high-profile cases, and what role does legal strategy play in influencing policy changes?

    Legal Strategy is one of the most critical aspects in litigation.  A good legal strategy acts as the bedrock on which the entire case is constructed, therefore considerable efforts must be spent in working out an effective strategy before proceeding with any case.  The issue concerning the ban on illegal coal mining in the State of Meghalaya is one of the most unique cases I have handled till date.  The issue pertained to the practice of indigenous mining techniques by the tribal residents of the State of Meghalaya which was deemed unsafe and environmentally harmful, resulting in the imposition of a complete ban by the Hon’ble National Green Tribunal in 2014. When the matter was earmarked to our team, before proceeding with the matter, we examined the historical aspects of the land tenure system in the State and its implications on the constitutional rights of the tribal residents of the State of Meghalaya. We were able to chalk out a legal strategy which indicated that the tribals are the absolute owner of the land and also the minerals extracted from the land, due to the constitutional status conferred to the State of Meghalaya as a 6th Schedule State, and also due to the land tenure system. Consequently, the Hon’ble Supreme Court upheld the contention that the both the land and minerals belong to the tribals, and therefore lifted the absolute ban on coal mining in the State, by permitting the mining to resume under the applicable legal regime of the Mines and Minerals (Development and Regulation) Act, 1957. The said judgment is a watershed moment, particularly for the State of Meghalaya, as nowhere else in the country has the Supreme Court recognised the right of the landowner over the minerals that may be found in his land. I personally do not distinguish between ‘high profile’ cases and other cases in terms of my approach to the matter. Surely, the pressure in ‘high profile’ cases is higher as the stakes involved for the clients are usually higher. However, I try to approach the matter like any other matter since I believe that as professionals, lawyers must remain objective in their assessment of a case.  

    Beyond the courtroom, you contribute to legal academia and write columns for popular legal websites. What motivates you to engage in these activities, and how do they complement your personal & professional life?

    My motivation for engaging in academic activities comes from my family background. My mother has been an educator for over 30 years and therefore I have always had a keen interest in academia. I still make time to write regular articles on various issues that I come across during my practice as I find that writing articles only solidifies the understanding of a particular area of law. Writing articles encourages discussion and debate on contemporary topics of law and I find that sharing of views is the best way to contribute to the development of the law.  

    Your academic achievements include winning Best Memorial in the Oxford Media Law Moot Court Competition. How has participating in moot court competitions shaped your advocacy skills, and what advice would you give to law students interested in mooting?

    Mooting was one of the most engaging activities during law school. It cultivated several habits which I till date implement in my professional life. Mooting required extreme discipline and dedication as it required one to gain subject matter knowledge on the topic involved to effectively deal with the issues raised in the moot proposition. This often involved our team staying up several nights reading up on new areas of law and refining our understanding of these areas. So far as helping shape advocacy skills is concerned, mooting trains one to develop arguments. It requires you to put your best argument first and find simple ways of explaining relatively complicated concepts. These aspects of mooting are very helpful in shaping advocacy skills. In my view, mooting, debating and other such activities are also a good way to gain confidence in public speaking which is an important skill required by any lawyer. 

    Coming to the personal side, what makes you happy personally other than Law? What keeps you motivated and inspired? 

    Music is a great source of solace and happiness for me. In particular, I enjoy collecting vinyl records and old cassettes.  

    Looking ahead, Are there any specific aspirations or goals you’re aiming to achieve in the coming years?

    If I were asked the same question a few years ago, I may have answered with a specific career goal in mind, but over the years if experience has taught me anything, it is that being happy, healthy and enjoying each day as it comes is the most important facet. I hope to focus on finding a good work life balance going forward.  

    Reflecting on your journey, what advice would you offer to law students and young legal professionals aiming to build a successful career in litigation, especially in the evolving legal landscape of India?

    One must have a voracious appetite for reading as it is the only way to stay abreast of the ever evolving legal landscape. A career in litigation is more of a marathon than a sprint. Pace yourself. While there is absolutely no substitute to hard work, but it’s important to find balance between the personal and professional.

    Get in touch with Shaurya Sahay-

  • You need a lot of patience, hard work and zeal but later on in your career, you reap the results of the hard work put in the initial years of your career- Prateek Kumar, Co-Founder & Partner at Chambers of Jain & Kumar

    You need a lot of patience, hard work and zeal but later on in your career, you reap the results of the hard work put in the initial years of your career- Prateek Kumar, Co-Founder & Partner at Chambers of Jain & Kumar

    This interview has been published by  Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Can you please share the story of what initially drew you to pursue a career in law? Was there a particular moment or experience that ignited your interest in this field?

    To begin with, I had no one in my family who was a lawyer or who I could look up to for guidance in terms of a legal career. I’m a first generation lawyer who like most regular students was preparing for engineering at a point in time. It was only in class 12 when I realised that subjects such as Physics, and chemistry which were necessary for engineering were not my cup of tea. After finishing school, I just got an inkling towards Law so I started preparing for law entrance exams and happened to clear the entrance of IP University with a good rank so I decided to pursue B.A. LLB (H) from Amity Law School affiliated with IP University which was back then one of the top law colleges for pursuing law in India. And to this day, my passion in the field has grown every day striving to be the best in the field.

    Your academic background shows a diverse range of legal coursework, from Criminal Law to Intellectual Property Rights. What led you to explore such a broad spectrum of legal disciplines during your education?

    Throughout Law School, I had an inclination towards Intellectual Property Rights (IP). One of My internships during law school was at K&S Partners which is a boutique IP firm.

    My internship at K&S laid the foundation of my interest towards IP by understanding the importance of the protection of IP in today’s era. Thereafter, I mostly interned in the field of IP in firms such as Lall and Sethi, Sai Krishna & Associates and Indus Law wherein, I got the opportunity to learn from some of the stalwarts in the field of IP. The experience gained during law school in the field of IP helped me secure a job at Lall Lahiri Salhotra (LLS) in their trademarks team where I learnt about the intricacies of Trademarks Law. However, I soon figured that this could not be my only area of practice and that my exposure could not be limited to the Trademark Registry. That in turn made me realise that I also need to explore other areas of law and especially litigation. I always had the zeal of appearing and arguing in court but being a first generation lawyer there was always an apprehension in the back of my mind about succeeding in litigation without any backing in the field whatsoever. After working at LLS for a year, I came across an opportunity at the Chambers of Mr. Sanjeev Bhandari (Former Special Public Prosecutor for CBI in Delhi High Court). I felt this was the right opportunity that would help me expand my horizon in law. Thereafter I was interviewed and I secured a job at his Chambers.

    You’ve been actively involved in organizing legal awareness programs and events like the 1st National Debate Competition on ‘Rights of Homosexuals and the LGBTQ community.’ Could you tell us how these experiences influenced your perspective on the legal profession?

    My college life at Amity Law School was very theoretical and not very vocational. Soon I realised that I would need to participate in other events as well to broaden my horizon and exposure in law. In the first year, I reluctantly participated in the mandatory moot court competition where I was selected as an extra candidate in case anyone in the first fifteen backed out.

    That competition made me realise the importance of extracurricular events in law students ‘ lives. Thereafter, I participated in the 1st National Debate Competition on ‘Rights of Homosexuals and the LGBTQ community.’ Not only were the panellists some of the top names in the field of law but when I dwelled on the insights shared at such events, I realised that law is more than just the curriculum that we were studying. The objective of law is to take everyone’s interest into account without any bias to secure everyone’s rights. Later, in my practice, I keep that at the back of my mind while dealing with cases especially involving the marginal sections of society in mind.

    Transitioning from your educational journey to professional experience, you’ve represented clients in various legal domains, including criminal trials, insurance claims, and intellectual property disputes. What motivated you to choose this diverse range of legal work?

    My first job in the field was working as a contract consultant with Ernst and Young which was a direct college placement. It was a short stint that gave me a great insight into contract vetting and more importantly, that made me understand corporate culture which has been pivotal for me to deal with my clientele at Chambers of Jain and Kumar. Thereafter, at LLS working for MNCs, I understood the importance of right advisory, diligence and prosecution in the quest to protect their IP. Thereafter, at the same time, I also started feeling the need to broaden my horizon in law and not limit my scope to just Intellectual property rights so early in my career. Later working in the Chambers of Mr. Bhandari, provided me with a solid platform to learn about the complexities of white-collar crimes and banking laws from one of the best in the field. More importantly, I learnt the art of arguing in court and the importance of court craft while representing your Client’s brief.

    The three jobs provided me with diverse experience to start my practice by the name of Chambers of Jain and Kumar with my other two partners Ms. Aarushi Jain and Mr. Yojit Pareek. We started this practice to build a full service law firm that could cater to all areas and aspects of law. Luckily, all three of us had different areas of practice coming from diverse practice backgrounds. I spearhead the litigation team in the firm wherein I represent MNCs, Corporates and Individuals in all domains of law in foras across the country up until the Supreme Court. The USP of our firm is to provide one stop solutions for all legal needs under one roof.

    During your tenure at the Chambers of Mr. Sanjeev Bhandari, you were involved in complex litigations pertaining to a wide range of legal acts and codes. How did this experience shape your understanding of the intricacies of Indian law?

    I owe a lot of my understanding of law to Mr. Sanjeev Bhandari. While assisting Mr. Bhandari, I was the only junior in his chambers. His Chambers provided me with the ideal platform to assist him in representing the Central Bureau of Investigation before the Delhi High Court in some of the most high profile cases in the country. That not only made me understand the optimal usage of time while preparing for a brief but also gave me the golden opportunity to appear against some of the stalwarts in the field. Also, with Mr. Bhandari being one of the leading counsels for banking law in Delhi, I got an opportunity to assist him in complex litigations before DRTs, High Courts and the Supreme Court.

    You’ve also worked as an Associate in the Trademarks Team at Lall Lahiri & Salhotra, focusing on intellectual property rights. How has this experience impacted your perspective on the importance of protecting intellectual property in today’s world?

    At Chambers of Jain and Kumar, one of our primary areas of Practice is IPR. In my tenure at LLS, while working on some of the well-known brands, I soon realised brand counterfeiting in India is a real issue that needs to be addressed. Today consumers in India with rising awareness relate to the brand and the quality that it brings along. However, to ensure that brand identity remains in place, the importance of IP in India has increased manifold in the last decade. In a developing economy such as ours, no small brand can become big without proper IP protection in place and no big brand today can survive without a good legal team that would advise on their prosecution, diligence and litigation.

    In addition to your legal work, you’ve been engaged in pro bono activities, offering legal assistance to those in need. Could you share some insights into the motivation behind your pro bono work and its significance in your legal career?

    We at Chambers of Jain and Kumar have a policy to do at least 5 pro bono cases every year. This goal was instilled in my mind back in time during my tenure with Mr. Bhandari working on criminal matters. On the criminal side in the Delhi High Court, I got the opportunity to observe cases of undertrials wherein I used to think in my head that if this particular aspect was presented in a better way, the results could’ve been different and therefore, probably better legal representation could’ve helped that person to protect his fundamental rights. This made me certain that at later stages of my career wherever possible I would try and represent the marginal section of society because law after all cannot be limited to people who can afford top lawyers. This was also one of the reasons that I applied for the Middle income panel on the criminal side of the Delhi High Court in my endeavour to achieve the goal of representing people who do not have the means but require quality legal support.

    Finally, based on your journey from education to your current role, what advice would you like to offer to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal field? What key lessons or principles have you learned that you believe would be valuable for them to know?

    To all the first generation lawyers, one piece of advice that I always give is that the journey is difficult but it’s not impossible. You need a lot of patience, hard work and zeal but later on in your career, you reap the results of the hard work put in in the initial years of your career. Litigation is not only limited to drafting and arguing in court but knowledge and awareness of law plays a pivotal role. With laws changing every day in the form of new legislation and judgements, one has to keep abreast of whatever is happening daily and for that one must keep reading as much as possible to increase awareness which in turn helps to provide holistic advice to your Clients to represent your case in the best possible manner.

    Get in touch with Prateek Kumar-

  • Whilst I do agree that the dynamic nature of tax makes it challenging, that is precisely what also makes it interesting and exciting,Counsel at AZB & Partners

    Whilst I do agree that the dynamic nature of tax makes it challenging, that is precisely what also makes it interesting and exciting,Counsel at AZB & Partners

    This interview has been published by  Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Sir, can you please share the story of how you initially became interested in law and what motivated you to pursue it as a career?

    Funnily I come from a family of lawyers, being a fourth generation lawyer from both sides, so the “interest” in law has always been there, however, the journey to pursue the same was not so straightforward. 

    As a kid I always aspired to be a lawyer, however, once I completed my schooling, I decided against it and went abroad to study Business and Public Policy Management. When I came back, I joined a budget hotel as a part of their management team. Long story short, in 2008 the global recession hit and the investors in the business being non-residents wanted to liquidate their investments. That’s when I realised that I needed to have a professional degree handy as a back-up, even if I never wished to practise. I gave the entrance exam for Campus Law Centre, thankfully got through. I chose evening classes since I was working during the days, however, since that did not take up a lot of my time I started assisting in my dad’s office. Just basic stuff like making returns for individuals which led to basic preparation for representation before the appellate authorities. 

    The intrigue came from the dynamic nature of tax law with changes being introduced with every finance bill and the constant tussle between the department and the taxpayer whilst interpreting the same section. By the end of my 3-year course, I knew this was my calling and decided to join the profession.

    With over 10 years of experience in the field of direct tax advisory and litigation, could you highlight a specific case or project that you found particularly challenging and how you successfully navigated it?

    One case which comes to mind is the Honda Trading Corporation case, where I had the privilege to assist in, which was argued over a span of a few days before the Delhi Tribunal and actually led to an amendment being brought into the statute book. As a lawyer, the satisfaction one gets in such matters and the acknowledgement of the same whereby the legislature brings in amendments to overcome the judgement is something which cannot be expressed in words. 

    Tax law is known for its complexity. Could you explain your approach to helping high-net individuals and corporate entities in optimizing tax efficiency and managing compliance issues effectively?

    Firstly, this notion of tax law being more complex than other laws is flawed. If one is honest and diligent in their subject, the complexity is of no consequence. If your basics/fundamentals are strong, nothing can stop you. This is evidenced by the fact that the greatest tax lawyers of the country do not necessarily have a tax background like the great Nani Palkhivala. Whilst I do agree that the dynamic nature of tax makes it challenging, that is precisely what also makes it interesting and exciting. 

    Coming back to your query, the Indian Tax Department is known to be one of the most aggressive departments world-wide, therefore, tax compliance ought to be a key consideration for any businesses. Till what is being done is within the four corners of the law, even if the position being taken is aggressive, should not deter the clients. That being said, one must be mindful of not being unrealistic under the garb of being aggressive. Hence, being primarily from a litigation background, the endeavour is to advice clients whilst keeping in mind the litigation exposures that I foresee and mitigation of the same.  

    You’ve represented clients before various judicial forums, including the Supreme Court of India. Can you share some insights into your strategies for building a successful track record in representing clients in high-stakes tax litigation cases?

    The strategy is very basic and simple. Read – Re-read the files and Repeat!! 

    Be thorough on facts and the relevant legal provisions. Something which I have learnt from my mentor, Mr. Chopra over the years is that till date whenever we discuss any case, his first go is to read the relevant sections even if he has read them a thousand times. Trust me something as basic as reading the relevant provisions can sometimes lead to interpretations which you could not fathom earlier. 

    Secondly, ensure that all the relevant facts/documents are on record. Last but not least, court craft is extremely important in any litigation. Understanding which battle to pick and when to relent is extremely important. Harping on a point which apparently is not working, learn to let go and move on to the next one.   

    Your expertise spans various tax matters, including income tax, corporate tax, international tax, and transfer pricing. How do you keep up-to-date with the constantly evolving tax laws and regulations in these diverse areas?

    First and foremost, read the bible (the Income Tax Act) again and again. I can’t emphasise that enough. Keeping a tab on the ever-changing landscape of tax laws is extremely hard, but I am lucky to be in a team in which our mentor ensures that we earmark time every week to discuss important judgements/circulars etc. which really helps. Plus, over time I have realised that such discussions with every member contributing with their point of view helps expand one’s opinions and understanding.  

    As Counsel, you’ve worked with both domestic and international clients. Can you discuss the unique challenges and opportunities you’ve encountered when advising international clients on Indian tax matters?

    The client comes to you for the value-add you provide. The nationality of the client is of no consequence. The only difference, if any, which I have noticed is that in the cases of international clients, since they are not acquainted with the nature of litigation in India or Indian laws, it is important to be very transparent and clear in all communications and explain the strategy along with its rationale. 

    Finally, considering your successful career and diverse experiences, what advice would you like to offer to fresh law graduates who are just starting their journey in the field of law and tax advisory?

    To be honest and speaking from experience, I would urge all fresh graduates to begin their career with smaller/boutique firms. The kind of learning and experience you will get there is unparalleled. Get the fundamentals clear and understand how things really work at the grass root level. This is something you will never learn in bigger firms. No matter how attractive big tier 1 firms sound, it is not recommended to begin your career there. 

    If your fundamentals are in place, everything will follow and fall into place. It is important to have a good mentor, as it plays an important role in your initial years. Honestly, I feel I have been extremely lucky in that department. I started my career with a boutique tax firm where my senior was known to begin his day at 4 AM. He always told me that by the time the world wakes up, half of his work was complete. So that’s one thing I held on to and till this day, I begin my day very early. Secondly, my mentor Mr. Deepak Chopra has always imbibed in us that you don’t leave your clients in the office. It is important to keep at it till you find the solution or to simply put, the value-add the client came to you for. 

    To sum up, if you are honest to yourself and your work, the world is your oyster. 

    Get in touch with Rohan Khare-

  • Arguing a matter in court may sound and seem quite glamorous. But behind these glamor filled moments are hours and hours of hard work which of course, is behind the scene and goes unnoticed. It’s with every lawyer- Rajeshwari Hariharan, Arguing counsel, Founder of Rajeshwari & Associates

    Arguing a matter in court may sound and seem quite glamorous. But behind these glamor filled moments are hours and hours of hard work which of course, is behind the scene and goes unnoticed. It’s with every lawyer- Rajeshwari Hariharan, Arguing counsel, Founder of Rajeshwari & Associates

    This interview has been published by  Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Please  tell us about your journey and how you ended up pursuing a career in law, particularly in the field of Intellectual Property Rights?

    After college, I wanted to do medicine. But, due to some circumstances, I couldn’t do that and turned to law.  I had seen some of my father’s friends as lawyers and was curious. So I took to law and joined practice at the District court. I had exposure to many common areas of law like conveyancing, land laws, contracts, arbitration, and even medical negligence. The medical negligence case really got me hooked on law. Then I got work on some trademark cases at my senior’s chamber  (Mr Khaladkar) which lured me into the area of intellectual property law. Because IP was not so well known in District Courts, we came to Delhi to explore and understand this area bit better.  

    I realised that there are lawyers who specialise just in intellectual property law. As a green horn I wanted to absorb every bit of work that came my way – be it a trademark matter or any other. Eventually, I joined K&S Partners where I had the good fortune to work on very interesting matters including the Basmati patent revocation, turmeric patent revocation, neem patent revocation, etc. My knowledge in sciences came in handy in patent matters, be it drafting or developing arguments in court. So it was reinforced that IPR was the way to do it. 

    Soon in 2008-09 I set up my own practice. I then had the occasion to work on various important matters including the first ever compulsory licence that was granted in India by the Patent office. I continue to work on patent and other intellectual property matters and with new technologies, I think there will be many more opportunities for us to assist the court and  development of law. It has been a very interesting journey and I really cherish every moment. 

    With a background in biotechnology, what led you to specialize in Intellectual Property Rights? Was there a specific experience or event that sparked your interest in this field?

    As I mentioned, my initial  years of practice were focussed on general law. It was deliberate, as I felt that one should first build a sound fundamental platform and from thereon, one can expand and deep dive into any specific area of your liking. That’s how I did a myriad of matters including cases relating to Urban Land Ceiling Act, banking, arbitration, conveyancing, medical negligence etc. All this made me look at different areas and open up new vistas. But I always wanted to use my science background and was looking for an appropriate area where I could put this to use. My senior’s chamber had some cases on medical negligence which were very interesting. In fact, there was a suit for damages against a doctor which was filed and it was my science background that helped us make comprehensive and incisive arguments that impressed the court and finally led to dismissal of the suit. Then we got a couple of patent matters – where again I had the occasion to assist the court with my technical knowledge. We won that matter also.  All this fortified my belief that IPR is an area where my science background would inevitably be my Ace card and this area is what I should specialise in. Back then in 1995-96, generalisation was the trend and specialisation rarity. But the more I read about Intellectual property, the more I fell in love with the subject. And the love affair continues till date. Even today, I think, all that I know is just a tip of the iceberg. There is an undiscovered ocean and even a lifetime is not enough to master this infinite ocean of knowledge. You may say I was lured into IPR practice. 

    You founded Rajeshwari & Associates, a full-service IPR law firm specializing in various areas. What motivated you to start your own firm, and what were some of the challenges you faced during the initial years?

    I was always taught that law is a service, a profession where one has ample occasions to serve the public at large. And I have experienced it first-hand. We had a case relating to a land dispute (partition dispute) and our client was a farmer from Aurangabad. He would dutifully come on each day of argument, sit at the chamber with folded hands and hope that we would be able to argue and win his case. He knew he has contributing nothing in terms of law- but that was his way of expressing his moral support to us. 

    Eventually, we won the case for him at the District Court. He was so elated, so happy  that tears welled up in his eyes and he fell at the feet of my senior. We were literally “gods” for him!!!

    Our whole chamber of 15 lawyers had worked day and night to research and develop arguments for his case. When we won the case and saw the expression on this man’s face, we as young lawyers felt a deep sense of satisfaction, a sense that we did something that impacted someone’s life positively. I cannot tell you the joy that we felt or express in words the feeling that we had. All our gruelling days of hard labour, the slavery, the torture by my senior just vanished with this one expression. 

    A week later he returned with two sacks full of potatoes and rice. That was the client’s way of paying the fee for the case. My senior also accepted it with grace and did not ask anything at all. Nothing was spoken but both knew what was going on. 

    This again reinforced that we actually did something good and our work was not academic. There were many such instances that had left an indelible mark and resulted in a firm resolve, that one day, I will have my own chamber where I will serve such clients and witness the happiness on their face.  That is why, after serving in a law firm for many years, I started my own practice where I have complete freedom to decide which matters I should take up, when and how. I only wish I had done this much earlier. 

    Over the course of your career, you have achieved significant milestones in the field of IPR, including winning the first ever compulsory license for Natco and litigating the Glivec battle up to the Supreme Court. Can you share some insights into these landmark cases and the impact they had on the Indian patent landscape?

    Both these cases that you mention have had a socio-economic impact. First – the compulsory licence case. That case was one where I and every one in my team had worked for days on end researching, strategizing, going back to the drawing board again and again. And of course, with the firm backing from our client Natco, we could make it. Our client’s mission was to make a life saving drug (sorafenib) available to the common man- to save a liver cancer patient from immediate death and extend his life by several months. It was about a big pharma abrogating to itself the right to choose who would live and who would die. The mission was so huge that we couldn’t help identifying ourselves with it and acting as catalysts. The case had its own share of challenges- like how to prove that the drug sorafenib sold at Rs. 2,80,000 by Bayer is not affordable ? There was no published article that profiles and analyses the income of liver cancer patients. So, we did a survey of such patients. 

    Then, came the simultaneous suit for infringement, and our counter-claim. The court in the infringement suit asked how we could argue that the patent is invalid and at the same time, ask for compulsory licence. The answer lay in the Patents Act itself – which carves out no exception as to who can challenge the validity of a patent and provides that non-challenge clauses in agreements are bad. Case law such as Lear vs Adkins (US) came to our assistance. 

    Then came the arguments before the Controller General – I was opposite a Senior Advocate Sudhir Chandra and he was at his shrillest best. Though I may not have matched the pitch in terms of decibels or stature, me and my team had worked equally hard  to present a compelling case for grant of Compulsory licence which was ultimately upheld by the IPAB, the Bombay High Court and Supreme Court. 

    The Glivec case was also a device of strategy, strong technical arguments and arguments of public interest. Here, Novartis had been granted the first ever Exclusive Marketing Rights (EMR) under the Patents (amendment) Act 2002. Basis this, they were rightly granted injunction by the Madras High Court against certain parties. We challenged the EMR at the Delhi High Court on the ground that it was granted without hearing the affected parties, and without due notice. Novartis immediately filed a suit at the High Court of Bombay, being armed with the Madras High Court order. Our client was naturally jolted. I was told by my colleagues that its no use fighting the suit at the Bombay High court who is bound to grant injunction in view of the Madras High Court order. However, I was hopeful. We argued many issues including public interest. In fact public interest was a very strong argument in the facts of that case – the drug imatinib mesylate was to be given to CML (blood cancer) patients who were in their final stage. The cost of the drug as sold by Novartis was Rs. 1,10,00/- per month as compared to Rs. 6000-8000 of our client. We cited case law from the UK and other countries and argued various aspects of public interest. The court ultimately refused the injunction, and the primary basis is public interest. The judgement is reported as ‘Novartis Vs Meher Pharma’. 

    There was also the opposition to the patent application for polymorphic form of imatinib mesylate which opposition was allowed by the Patent office on the ground that the invention lacked novelty, inventive step and failed on the ground of section 3(d). This was one of the first ever cases where the Patent office had the occasion to explore section 3(d) and due to lack of therapeutic efficacy rejected the application. This was upheld by the High Court and Supreme Court. 

    Both are cases etched in my memory. Both are cases that have actually helped cancer patients. Something I have always wanted to do.    The Glivec case is also important for the reason that it interpreted the scope of section 3(d) and it is that interpretation that we follow till date. The CL case had interpreted the CL related provisions of compulsory licence that were hitherto considered ‘academic’ and near impossible to achieve.

    As an arguing counsel at the High Court of Delhi and the Supreme Court of India, you have represented clients in patent and other litigations. What are some of the unique challenges and opportunities you encounter when arguing before these higher courts?

    It is a very interesting and challenging life as an arguing counsel. Firstly, we argue matters on the basis of instructions from the instructing lawyers and basis their briefs. Sometimes their pleading lacks some of the most basic or crucial points that one may need for arguments. But still, we have to make do, plaster the pleading and make out a good case. Second, many times, the briefing counsel is not up to-date with the latest developments in law – resulting therefore in bad planning or taking incorrect steps or filing unwanted applications which may get rejected by the court. Obviously, the instructing counsel and more so -the client are puzzled as to what happened with the outcome. Third, I find that people just show clients a rosy garden which is bit different from real life. So again when I tell them that their case has certain flaws, they are not very happy. Fourth,  some people feel that once a brief is handed over to a senior, their job is over- it is actually the start of the process. As a result, our team has run the extra mile to make sure we have all the tools and ammunition to do well in the court. 

    Arguing a matter in court may sound and seem quite glamorous. But behind these glamor filled moments are hours and hours of hard work which of course, is behind the scene and goes unnoticed. It’s with every lawyer. 

    But at the end of the day, if we achieve a good outcome, every midnight oil burnt is worth it and we will do it a hundred times over. 

    You have been recognized as a visionary in the domain of Intellectual Property Rights. How do you stay updated with the latest trends and dynamics shaping the intellectual property landscape, especially in developing nations?

    It is very important to stay updated not only with cases of Indian courts but also of courts in other countries as it gives an idea of the trend. It also gives an insight into what was argued and how the argument was received by the court. So I try and keep case-law reading for weekends or anytime that I find free. I don’t like to waste time and I try to utilise in catching up with case law or technology. The only way to stay updated is to allocate time and in disciplined manner keep reading. I also get invited to do podcasts or talks at various places on various subjects – that also keeps me on my feet. Sometimes we have discussions with groups. All this helps. But self-reading and staying updated is indispensable.

    As a TEDx speaker, what was the topic of your talk, and why is it important for you to share your insights and knowledge through platforms like TEDx?

    I am a follower of TED talks and have been greatly inspired by these talks. I was very excited to be invited to give a TEDx talk. 

    So I thought, I should speak on a topic that would be helpful to one and all- courage and conviction, Its about having the courage to pursue your path despite the negative talk around, despite the discouragement. I think in life as well in any profession, there is a need to pursue your objective or goal with all your might, complete perseverance and passion. There will be obstacles but if you are determined, nothing can stop you. But the determination must be strong and unshakable.  

    We have been taught these principles and most of us do apply them in our daily lives and surely do practice them. But it is important to keep reminding ourselves of these principles from time to time so that we stick to the chosen path and don’t deviate. And what better example than our own experiences. 

    With burgeoning information on the internet, today’s youth wants to do something, but is often confused or even discouraged if they do not instant success like instant Maggi. 

    Hence I talked about my experience, about how I had debilitating injuries and despite that, I managed to survive and move on, rather than mourn over what was lost. I felt that if I could inspire at least one person, I can say, it’s a good beginning. 

    You have authored several articles and are a regular speaker at conferences and seminars. Can you share some of the key messages you aim to convey through your writings and speaking engagements?

    I have been writing since a very young age. Most of my speaking assignments at conferences and seminars are IPR or other legal topic oriented. Hence through these sessions, I try to spread knowledge – the knowledge that I have gained so far. I think that people attending any session on any topic should find it a good investment of time and effort- and as trainers or speakers it is our responsibility to ensure that their time is well spent. So I usually prepare and try to ensure that whatever topic I speak on throws some new perspectives and the audience is able to gain knowledge. Knowledge is gained by spreading not by keeping it locked. 

    Recently, I have authored a chapter on Trade Secrets and it is published by Chambers in 2023. You will find the link at https://practiceguides.chambers.com/practice-guides/trade-secrets-2023/india/trends-and-developments. The chapter summarises the position in India regarding trade secrets. It gives an insight into the existing law and the remedies available within the current framework. 

    Surely, with technical progress, everyone would be impacted especially companies and institutions. Its high time we enact a comprehensive law on trade secrets and law should protect confidential information in whatever shape and form. Right now, we have several judicial precedents to protect confidential information. While we are quite successful in protecting breaches of confidentiality by employees, it is always helpful to have a legislation as it imposes confidence in business owners and enables framing of appropriate policies to protect such information. 

    With your vast experience in the field of IPR, what advice would you give to fresh graduates who are aspiring to pursue a career in law, particularly in the domain of Intellectual Property Rights?

    For fresh law graduates, I would advise that they should initially try all kinds of practice areas. Gain knowledge and not look for instant money. This is a profession not a money spinning business where one expects ROI from day one or year one. It’s a profession, a service to the public. Money will come, slowly but surely. Knowledge is king. 

    So one should practice in lower courts, gain experience in courts, tribunals, working or training with solicitors as well as in-house counsels and having gained a general perspective, then, make up your mind whether you want to do litigation or something else. Its each for himself. In this profession, hard work is the only currency that may get you somewhere. There no short-cuts; so one has to have patience and keep working at it. You would attain your gaol sooner or later. If you choose litigation, it is surely a hard life. Even a solicitor’s life is not as simple as you think – every field will have its own twisted path. But one has to enjoy the process, enjoy the profession, satisfy yourself with the happiness and smile that you may bring on someone’s face. That’s the glory and gold coins this profession offers.

    Get in touch with Rajeshwari Hariharan-

  • By fostering open and transparent communication, I strive to establish a collaborative environment that promotes constructive dialogue and a mutual understanding of the parties’ needs- Ashutosh Shekhar Paarcha, Government Counsel, State of Rajasthan

    By fostering open and transparent communication, I strive to establish a collaborative environment that promotes constructive dialogue and a mutual understanding of the parties’ needs- Ashutosh Shekhar Paarcha, Government Counsel, State of Rajasthan

    This interview has been published by Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Sir, please tell us about your journey and how you ended up pursuing a career in law after graduating from the National Law School of India University?

    After graduating from the National Law School of India University, my journey in the field of law has been both fulfilling and exciting. I always had a deep interest in understanding legal systems and advocating for justice, which led me to pursue a career in law.

    During my time at the National Law School, I had the opportunity to study under renowned professors and engage in stimulating academic discussions. The rigorous curriculum and practical exposure provided me with a strong foundation in various aspects of law, including constitutional law, criminal law, corporate law, and international law, as well as developing skills like negotiating contracts, legal research, etc.

    During my internships at the Trial Courts and High Court of Delhi, I realized that the law taught to us in college, is different in terms of practice in Courts like procedure, evidence, etc. Therefore, following my graduation, I began my professional journey by joining a boutique litigation law firm, where I started as an associate. This experience allowed me to work on a wide range of legal matters, including litigation, contract drafting, due diligence, and legal research. I had the opportunity to collaborate with seasoned lawyers and gain valuable insights into the intricacies of the legal profession.

    While practicing at the law firm, I developed a particular interest in litigation and advocacy. This passion drove me to transition into a litigation-focused role, where I had the opportunity to represent clients in court, present arguments, and analyze complex legal issues. This phase of my career allowed me to refine my legal skills and develop a deep understanding of courtroom dynamics.

    Over the years, I have had the privilege of working in both litigation and corporate legal, being in-house counsel to various MNCs. I have also had the privilege to work in domestic as well as international markets and with the diversity of not only strictly legal, but also public policy, advocacy, etc.

    In addition to my professional work, I have also been actively involved in pro bono initiatives, providing legal aid to underprivileged individuals and contributing to social justice causes. This aspect of my career has been immensely rewarding, allowing me to use my legal skills to make a positive impact on society.

    Overall, my journey in law has been a result of my passion for justice, a drive to make a positive impact, and a constant commitment to enhancing my legal knowledge and skills. I am grateful for the opportunities I have had and look forward to continuing my journey as a legal professional.

    You have had a diverse range of experiences in both litigation and in-house legal roles. Could you share some key highlights or significant cases that have shaped your career so far?

    Throughout my career, I have had the privilege of working on various significant cases and handling crucial legal matters, which have personally challenged me and were exciting projects. It is difficult to pin-point a couple here. 

    But generally speaking there have been cases in litigation both criminal and civil where you may arrive at a point when you think you have no case or no argument and then one needs to take a step back and think a little outside of the box and develop an argument. I think that is the least we owe to our client, to give more than our 100%. And when the Judge appreciates your argument and the fact you were able to find the point, that feeling is pure ecstatic. And frankly, I think it’s that feeling that pushes us to keep doing better in litigation.

    Similarly, as an in-house counsel, I have been working with commercial transactional agreements, international or domestic, sometimes not only closing the agreement, which itself becomes a task, but also providing other solutions to get the maximum output from the deal. For example, bypassing domestic and international tax laws, corporate structuring of the deal, exposure to the least risk possible, etc. 

    These are just a few highlights from my career so far. Each experience has contributed to my professional growth, deepened my understanding of various legal domains, and reinforced the importance of being up-to-date with the laws, effective advocacy, strategic thinking, and meticulous attention to detail. 

    As the Director of Legal & Business Development at Indian Reprographic Rights Organisation (IRRO), you gained experience with international laws and commercial transactions. How did this role contribute to your professional growth, and what were some of the challenges you faced?

    As Director, at the Indian Reprographic Rights Organisation (IRRO), my role was basically spear-heading the Organization. It involved working on domestic and international laws and commercial transactions, which significantly contributed to my professional growth. It was basically a Non-profit think-tank which worked towards helping shape the IPR policy and provide the government with inputs.

    As it was the first time I was working in this kind of Organisation, the challenges were infinite. It was basically like working in a start-up. The team, initially, was small. I had to be responsible for all the decisions that were taken. Challenges like micro-managing everything, realizing that no one has heard of the Organisation, working with limited funds, government red-tape and diktat, FERA & FEMA regulations, etc. However, once you grasp your way around things, it becomes easy and the experience I gathered was amazing.

    It helped me grow as it provided me with international Exposure. Working on international laws and transactions exposed me to different legal systems, regulations, and business practices. It broadened my understanding of how laws operate in various jurisdictions, enabling me to navigate cross-border legal issues more effectively. It improved my contract negotiation and drafting skills. It provided me with insights regarding compliance with regulations.

    Overall, my role at IRRO provided me with invaluable experience in international laws, commercial transactions, copyright education, and stakeholder management. It enhanced my legal expertise, honed my negotiation skills, and deepened my understanding of the complexities of intellectual property rights. The challenges I faced, such as compliance complexities and managing diverse stakeholders, reinforced the importance of adaptability, strategic thinking, and effective communication in addressing multifaceted legal and business issues.

    In your role as General Manager – Legal for Franchise India Group of Companies, you headed the legal team and dealt with policy and advocacy matters. Can you elaborate on the challenges you encountered and the strategies you implemented to ensure legal compliance while supporting the growth of the conglomerate?

    As the General Manager – Legal for Franchise India Group of Companies, I was basically their Global Legal Head as Franchise India is an MNC with offices in 6 Countries and business almost everywhere in the world. My experience was different as the setup here was quite elaborate vis-a vis my previous Organisation. It had its own perks but its own challenges too. 

    A major challenge that I came across was that I have always been an individual contributor. While I did lead a decent team in my previous Organisation, being completely able to delegate work to someone who you have never worked with before, was tough for me. However, it took me a bit of time but that was the easiest of the challenges. 

    The more difficult challenges were dealing with multi-faceted legal compliance. The conglomerate operated in various industries, each with its own set of regulations and compliance requirements. Ensuring legal compliance across all sectors was a significant challenge. To tackle this, I developed a robust compliance management system that involved conducting regular audits, creating compliance manuals, and implementing training programs to educate employees about legal obligations. I also established strong relationships with regulatory agencies to stay updated on regulatory changes and engage in proactive compliance measures.

    Policy and Advocacy: Dealing with policy and advocacy matters required a comprehensive understanding of the legal and regulatory landscape. I closely monitored legislative developments, engaged with industry associations, and actively participated in policy discussions. I collaborated with internal stakeholders to develop and advocate for favorable policies that supported the conglomerate’s growth objectives while ensuring compliance with applicable laws and regulations.

    Contract Management: Since international agreements were a major part of the organization, it brought along the need to have knowledge of international laws and their domestic laws as well. The conglomerate engaged in a wide range of contracts, including lease and license agreements, strategic partnerships, service agreements, and distribution agreements. Managing and negotiating these contracts while safeguarding the conglomerate’s interests was a critical responsibility. I implemented standardized contract templates, streamlined contract review processes, and provided training to internal teams on contract negotiation and risk assessment. This ensured consistency, minimized legal risks, and expedited contract closures. Many times, there were language barriers too but I feel as long as both parties want to enter into an agreement, in good faith, challenges can be worked upon.

    In summary, my strategies focused on proactive compliance management, policy advocacy, efficient contract management, stakeholder engagement, risk mitigation, and effective dispute resolution. By addressing these challenges, I contributed to the conglomerate’s growth while ensuring legal compliance and minimizing legal risks.

    As the Legal Head for Medicover Group of Hospitals in India, you were involved in various acquisition and merger agreements, as well as corporate structuring. How did you navigate the complexities of these transactions, and what role did you play in ensuring smooth operations for the organization?

    When I joined Medicover, the biggest challenge was COVID-19. I joined the organization at the brink of COVID and the times were tough. The challenges began right away being employee issues as people didn’t want to come to hospitals to work. Although the Organisation was great and swiftly provided all the protective gear and things to employees, it was still difficult for people as no one knew about the virus and the magnitude of it.

    For smooth operations, I relied on the experience I have gathered till date. Before engaging in any acquisition or merger, conducting comprehensive due diligence was crucial. I oversaw the due diligence process, which involved analyzing legal, financial, and operational aspects of the target entities. By identifying potential risks, liabilities, and regulatory compliance issues, I provided valuable insights to the management, enabling them to make informed decisions.

    Secondly, Structuring Transactions. Each acquisition and merger presented unique considerations, such as regulatory compliance, taxation implications, and integration of operations. I worked closely with internal stakeholders, external advisors, and management to develop the most suitable transaction structures. This involved assessing legal and regulatory requirements, drafting and negotiating agreements, and ensuring compliance with applicable laws.

    Thirdly, Contract Negotiation and Drafting. This was comparatively easy as I have been doing this throughout my career and hence played a key role in negotiating and drafting acquisition and merger agreements. I ensured that the terms and conditions were favorable to Medicover Group while protecting its interests. This involved collaborating with the business and finance teams to identify key deal points, conducting negotiations with the counterparty, and drafting agreements that clearly defined rights, obligations, and protections. Throughout the acquisition and merger process, I identified and managed legal and operational risks. This included conducting risk assessments, implementing risk mitigation strategies, and advising the management on potential risks associated with the transactions. By proactively addressing risks, I helped safeguard Medicover Group’s interests and ensured the smooth functioning of the organization.

    Fourthly, Regulatory Compliance. Healthcare is a highly regulated sector, and compliance with various laws and regulations was critical for smooth operations. I worked closely with regulatory authorities, such as state and national governments and healthcare regulatory agencies, to ensure compliance with licensing, permits, and other regulatory requirements. I also advised internal teams on healthcare-specific regulations, including those related to patient privacy, medical ethics, and quality standards.

    Lastly, Integration and Post-Merger Activities. After completing an acquisition or merger, integrating the acquired entities into the Medicover Group was crucial for seamless operations. I collaborated with cross-functional teams to harmonize processes, systems, and policies. This involved managing legal aspects of employee transfers, aligning corporate governance structures, and ensuring compliance with Medicover Group’s policies and procedures.

    Overall, although my stint was short with Medicover, it provided me with immense experience and the Management was amazing. The healthcare industry is quite fast paced and there are multiple issues everyday being compliance issues, litigations, licenses, adherence to govt. notifications (due to COVID), etc. My CEO trusted me with almost everything and relied on my expertise and advice and didn’t micro-manage. Medicover provided me with great exposure into a new industry with both domestic and international issues to be dealt with.

    Throughout your career, you have gained extensive experience in contract drafting, negotiation, and management. What are some key strategies or approaches you employ when dealing with complex contracts or negotiations?

    When dealing with complex contracts or negotiations, I employ several key strategies and approaches to ensure effective outcomes. Here are some of the techniques I use:

    Thorough Understanding of the Subject Matter: Before entering into any contract or negotiation, I make sure to develop a deep understanding of the subject matter. This involves conducting comprehensive research, studying relevant laws and regulations, and familiarizing myself with the industry practices and standards. This enables me to identify key issues, anticipate potential challenges, and negotiate from a position of knowledge and strength.

    Clear Communication and Active Listening: Effective communication is essential during contract negotiations. I focus on clearly articulating my client’s objectives and requirements, while also actively listening to the counterparty’s concerns and interests. By fostering open and transparent communication, I strive to establish a collaborative environment that promotes constructive dialogue and a mutual understanding of the parties’ needs.

    Preparation and Planning: Adequate preparation is crucial for successful contract negotiations. I thoroughly review all relevant documentation, including the contract terms, supporting materials, and any applicable laws or regulations. This enables me to anticipate potential issues, identify potential areas of compromise, and develop a well-rounded negotiation strategy. I also establish clear objectives and priorities, ensuring that my client’s interests are protected while seeking mutually beneficial solutions.

    Building Relationships and Trust: Building trust and rapport with the counterparty is instrumental in reaching favorable outcomes. I strive to establish a professional and respectful relationship based on trust, integrity, and transparency. This can involve engaging in small talk, finding common ground, and demonstrating a genuine interest in understanding the counterparty’s perspective. By fostering a positive rapport, I create a conducive environment for finding common ground and resolving disagreements.

    Flexibility and Creativity: Complex contracts or negotiations often require flexibility and creative problem-solving. I approach negotiations with an open mind, exploring alternative solutions and considering various options. This allows me to think outside the box and propose innovative approaches that meet both parties’ interests. I am willing to consider different perspectives, explore compromise, and find win-win solutions whenever possible.

    Documenting Agreements and Managing Risks: Once an agreement is reached, I ensure that it is clearly documented in a comprehensive and enforceable contract. This involves carefully drafting the contract terms, considering potential future scenarios, and addressing any legal or business risks. I pay close attention to detail, ensuring that all relevant provisions are included and accurately reflect the parties’ intentions. By addressing potential risks in the contract, I help safeguard my client’s interests and mitigate future disputes.

    Continuous Learning and Adaptation: The legal landscape and business environments are constantly evolving. I prioritize continuous learning, staying updated on industry trends, legal developments, and best practices in contract negotiation and management. This enables me to adapt my strategies and approaches to the specific context and leverage new insights and techniques.

    By employing these strategies, I aim to facilitate effective contract negotiations, foster positive relationships, and achieve optimal outcomes for my clients.

    As someone with a successful legal career, what advice would you give to fresh graduates who are starting their journey in the field of law? Are there any particular skills or qualities they should focus on developing?

    Frankly, I don’t think that I am successful enough yet to give advice to other people. However, the few kids I mentor or if someone reaches out to me on LinkedIn for advice and how to proceed in their legal career after college, I just tell them a few things. Firstly, if its clear to you that you want to choose any specific field, that’s great. But if you are not clear, that works fine too. 

    For eg; some students are clear that they want to do only litigation. However, many first-generation lawyers like myself are not sure what to choose and how to go about it and of course there is lack of guidance. My suggestion is to try everything. Being a litigator has its own perks, but being in-house counsel is also great. It is only after trying things one can be sure if they like it or not. 

    The one thing non-negotiable is hard work. You must be willing to put in the hours with dedication. Smart work will only take to a certain level but hard work will always pay off in the long run.

    You have written articles and provided opinions on various legal issues, such as copyright, education policy, and IT rules. How do you balance your professional commitments with your passion for writing and contributing to legal discourse?

    To be fair, it is extremely challenging and hence I haven’t been able to publish more articles. However, I believe that engaging in legal writing and sharing my perspectives on important legal issues allows me to contribute to the broader legal community and promote meaningful discussions.

    I must attribute some credit to NLS for this. The curriculum is so intense, it makes you respect deadlines and provide your best work in the shortest time. To manage this balance, I allocate dedicated time for writing and research outside of my professional commitments. I stay updated on legal developments, both through my work and personal research, which helps me identify relevant topics to write about. By effectively managing my time and prioritizing my commitments, I ensure that I can devote sufficient attention to both my professional work and my passion for writing. It requires discipline and careful planning, but the opportunity to contribute to legal discourse and make a positive impact on the field makes it all worthwhile.

    Lastly, what are your future aspirations and goals within the legal field? Is there a particular area or cause that you are passionate about and would like to focus on in the coming years?

    In the future, I aspire to continue growing and excelling in the legal field while making a positive impact. I am passionate about various areas within the legal field, including intellectual property rights, technology law, E-commerce and corporate governance.

    One of my key goals is to contribute to the development and implementation of legal frameworks that promote innovation, protect intellectual property, and foster a fair and sustainable business environment. I am particularly interested in the intersection of law and technology, and I aim to stay at the forefront of emerging legal issues in areas such as data privacy, artificial intelligence, and digital rights. To keep myself updated with these, I try to take up courses available.

    Additionally, I am committed to advocating for access to justice and promoting legal awareness among marginalized communities. I believe in the power of legal education and empowerment to bring about positive social change. In furtherance of this cause, I volunteer with a couple of NGOs which work towards prevention of Human Rights. I am generally open to other causes as well and people reach out to me on LinkedIn for advice.

    In the coming years, I intend to deepen my expertise and provide my services to the clients. Apart from litigation, I am deeply interested in IPR Licensing, Financial Services & Insurance, Fin-tech, E-Commerce industries. I would love to work in these sectors and collaborate with organizations and stakeholders to drive legal reforms.

  • I believe the important lesson for any fresh graduate “is to be humble”-Talha Abdul Rahman, Advocate on Record, Supreme Court of India

    I believe the important lesson for any fresh graduate “is to be humble”-Talha Abdul Rahman, Advocate on Record, Supreme Court of India

    This interview has been published by Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Sir, could you please share with us how you decided to pursue law as a career and what inspired you to take this path?

    To begin my professional story, I must start in Faizabad, where I grew up. Faizabad did not have many great educational opportunities, which led me to relocate to Lucknow. As a teenager, computer science, and technology generally, engrossed me and was all set to study computer science engineering. However, towards the end of Class XII, I had begun to take great interest in work that involved a more people-centric approach and leadership positions. I became increasingly interested in works that could affect people in a very personal way. Naturally, I veered toward the law. Of course, my family was surprised by my decision and  I did face resistance. Here was a bright student who could have potentially entered a great engineering college and secured his life or, at least, this is how my family saw it back then. My family did not consider law to be a profession of choice.

    Was it a rebellious decision to study law? I would say, yes. You see, the law was not as popular a course as it is today. And my mini-rebellion had to be tempered by studying law at the best place one could find in India. NALSAR fulfilled this criterion and with my family’s blessings, I got into NALSAR in 2003 and really enjoyed the next 5 years. I enjoyed law and legal studies and was almost smitten by it.  I am glad that I followed my heart and pursued law.

    Right after my graduation, I was offered the Shell Chevening Centenary Scholarship to study for a bachelor of civil laws (BCL) at Oxford University in 2008-2009. My time in Oxford grounded me in the law – overall it was a very humbling experience.  Until now, my most significant revelation has been the recognition of the vastness of the law as a discipline and  the extent of my ignorance. 

    The seminar system employed at Oxford acquainted me with distinct fields of study and acquainted me with fundamental concepts and ideas. These subjects were subsequently explored in greater detail during tutorials. Such a process necessitated diligent reading, and assimilation of cross-jurisdictional legal thoughts.

    Thereafter, I came to India and began work in the dispute resolution team at AZB & Partners (Mumbai), where I had the occasion of working with the very best litigators that a lawfirm in India had to offer. 

    I passed the Advocate on Record (AoR) Examination in 2017.

    You have a broad range of experience in different legal domains. Can you share with us how you gained exposure to such diverse areas of law?

    I have never tried to confine myself to any particular subject within the broad field of law. Obviously, there are areas within this broad field that I find more relevant or more interesting, but each area has its own charm—whether it be taxation law, dispute resolution, constitutional law, environmental law, commercial law, or criminal law, etc. The law is quite fluid. Indeed, as lawyers, we deploy disparate sources and subjects to put forth a particular interpretation of the law. It requires being insightful about a subject, but also to have a broadside view of the entire field. You should be able to see where your argument fits in the grand scheme of things – especially when law itself is fluid. In other words, one should not miss the forest for the trees. 

    My stint at AZB & Partners in Mumbai helped me familiarize myself with the various facets of dispute resolution and developing a solution oriented approach to working. Back in Lucknow, litigation work was varied, which involved everything from labour law to pure commercial law.   While at AZB, I was still guided by seniors; but at Lucknow with a different set of clients I had greater creative freedom. 

    Similarly, working in the chambers of former Solicitor General of India, Mr. Gopal Subramanium, exposed me to practical work in commercial, constitutional, criminal, and arbitration matters. I think, largely because of Mr Subramanium himself appeared in all kinds of matters, I began to assist him in variety of matters and eventually developed a practice that is diverse. 

    Could you talk to us about a case that you handled that was particularly challenging and how you managed to navigate through it successfully?

    Most cases in the Supreme Court come with their own set of challenges. One case that I particularly remember was the case concerning a town planning scheme in Raipur.  It was one of my earliest cases before the Supreme Court. After the first hearing, Mr. Subramanium who along with Mr Huzefa Ahmadi was leading us, advised us to get a complete record of the case running into several hundred pages and to make sure to have examined every page for legal points.  We managed to navigate through the case because we were very thorough with facts; and consequently managed to get the Supreme Court to decide the law also in our favour. It’s a different matter that the Government brought an ordinance to dilute the impact of the judgment. 

     As young lawyers, and perhaps even otherwise, we cannot neglect the facts and going through every page in the file is a necessity.

    As someone who has represented clients before both the Supreme Court of India and other courts, what are some of the differences in the approach that you take when representing clients in different courts?

    There is a marked difference in approach. This is primarily down to the nature of the jurisdiction of each court. Every step in a case is crucial and the approach differs in terms of the nature of arguments presented. First, the Supreme Court is the highest court in the land, and it is the final court of appeal. This necessitates a different approach than what you would normally take before a high court or a tribunal. This different approach entails finding out the error committed by the court below and identifying which point to place first. The window of presenting your argument is very short; and any delay or error in identifying the correct points worthy of Supreme Court’s interference is fatal. Even when questions of law are wrongly decided by the High Court, the Supreme Court may not want to interfere given the facts of a case.

    Second, in High Courts, the facts matter a little more; and on account of the obligation to give reasons – the hearing is also a bit elaborate.  Thus, the different approach is more down to the role of each court.

    I must point out that a counsel must be fully prepared no matter where the case is listed, because the basics remain the same.  When it comes to time, I feel that courts follow a pyramidical structure where the most amount of time is taken before the trial court and High Court.  In some cases, this is upset as well – which results in error which the Supreme Court then needs to correct. When this case goes before different courts, one needs to be mindful of the rules and legal principles that govern the jurisdiction and powers of the said court.  

    Can you share with us your experience working as a Junior Standing Counsel for the Income Tax Department and the Directorate of Revenue Intelligence?

    I was appointed as Junior Standing Counsel for Income Tax Department before the Allahabad High Court at the age of 26. In 2017, I was also appointed by the Government of India as Junior Standing Counsel of Directorate of Revenue Intelligence before the Delhi High Court.

    As a Junior Standing Counsel for the Income Tax Department and the Directorate of Revenue Intelligence, I was responsible for representing the Government of India in various legal proceedings, including litigation in the High Courts and the Supreme Court. I also provided legal advice to the Government on a variety of tax and revenue matters.

    My work as a Junior Standing Counsel was challenging and rewarding.  One thing that stands out is that while working with Income Tax Department as well as DRI, the officers are up to date with facts and sharp with law. They instructed me and for that matter all counsel generally pretty well. I enjoyed the professional approach that officers had while briefing their counsel.

    I had the opportunity to work on a variety of complex and high-profile cases, and I learned a great deal. I also had the opportunity to work with some of the best lawyers in the country. More importantly, I gained considerable experience by understanding the perspective of the state when it litigates before courts.

    What do you think are some of the essential skills that a lawyer must possess to be successful, and how have you developed these skills throughout your career?

    A lawyer is an amalgam of knowledge and communication skills. If you lack either, you are not a complete lawyer. Building a repository of knowledge requires a lot of sustained reading, and reading not just the law but various other subjects as well; and above all, listening. Writing comes next. Therefore, reading good texts and even well-written novels will help improve your vocabulary and the way you frame sentences – keeping in mind the audience.   Skills of critical thinking and analysis, are subsumed in the skill of acquiring knowledge.

    The other skill is communication, which comes in various shapes and sizes. From writing emails, to letters, to applications, to pleadings – we, lawyers write many documents, and in addition engage in serious oral advocacy – which again is a form of communication.  Lawyers need to be able to communicate effectively with judges, lawyers, clients, and even the general public. This includes being able to write clearly and concisely, and to speak persuasively. I developed these skills through my education, both at NALSAR and Oxford, through watching my seniors and peers, and inculcating the values of professionalism and hard work in my own work as an advocate. Having said that, I continue to work on it.

    Could you talk to us about any particular legal issue that you are particularly passionate about and why?

    I recently worked on the legal issues surrounding citizenship. I am fascinated by its legal conception and how the idea of citizenship has evolved over the years and its link to other rights. Hannah Arendt called citizenship “the right to have rights.” Arendt was skeptical about the concept of human rights—which, in theory, belong to every person but we are not sure how these rights are to be guaranteed. What role does the law play in securing rights to people is what fascinates me. The taking away of citizenship renders people stateless, a person who is not considered as a national by any State under the operation of its law. Statelessness often has a severe and lifelong impact on those it affects. They have little access to basic needs of life. I have written about the power of the state to render a person stateless, to strip them of citizenship and its attendant rights. In my paper titled, “Identifying the ‘Outsider’” in The Statelessness & Citizenship Review, I analyzed the law and the manner in which different courts addressed the issue of statelessness. The paper concluded that the framework of adjudication by Foreigner’s Tribunals does not constitute effective adjudication under the Constitution of India.

    Finally, what advice would you like to give to fresh graduates who are starting their career in law?

    I believe the important lesson for any fresh graduate is to be humble. This means treating everyone with utmost respect and humility, and to learn from everyone you come across. I have learned that you can gain valuable insight in the most non-traditional situations and from people you probably would not classify as “well-read”. When I started, and even today – I still often paginate petitions, correct typos, be corrected by junior and senior colleagues at the Bar, and take criticism with humility. 

    Shining on account of your work, wisdom and merit – continues to be one of the best ways to get work as a lawyer – despite what LinkedIn may suggest. It is important to be visible but the boundaries of ethics must never be breached. Where possible, attend various events for the sake of knowledge and reach out to lawyers in your area of interest. Building a relationship is important. 

    One also must learn to be patient, both with others and yourself. It takes time to build a successful career as a lawyer. Don’t get discouraged if you don’t find success right away. But you must put in the hard work and develop skills a lawyer must possess to succeed.

    Lastly, be passionate about the law. If you’re not passionate about the law, it will be difficult to succeed in the legal profession. Make sure you’re committed to the law before you pursue a career in it. One must have an attitude that if one lives a hundred years, one will learn a hundred years. Each day must be filled with some new judgment, principle, proposition, law, book, or an article that enhances your understanding of the law – or generally learn something new every day.

    Get in touch with Talha Abdul Rahman-