Tag: Featured Insights

  • Chakradhar Varadarajan, Head-Corporate Legal in Godrej, roles and responsibilities as In-house Counsel

    Chakradhar Varadarajan, Head-Corporate Legal in Godrej, roles and responsibilities as In-house Counsel

    Chakradhar Varadarajan holds a Bachelor of Law degree from the first batch of five-year law course (1983-’88) from the Government Law College affiliated to Bharathiar University, Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. He is the Head-Corporate Legal in Godrej Industries Limited (GIL). He is also the authorised signatory for Godrej Consumer Products Limited (GCPL) and Nature’s Basket Limited (NBL).

    Chakradhar’s current role is to add value to the businesses as a trusted advisor, shape up and maintain a client-focused in-house legal team. His work areas engage him to manage and advice on risk analysis and mitigation including M&A, indirect taxation, brand protection enforcement, business advisory, compliance and regulatory aspects.

    In this interview, he speaks to us about:

    • His decision to choose a five-year law course at a very nascent stage of Indian legal education
    • The culture back in his college days.
    • His role and responsibilities as Head-Corporate Legal in Godrej Industries Limited (GIL).
    • The reason behind giving up litigation practice and accepting an in-house legal counsel role.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a student. I continue to learn every day.

     

    What prompted you to choose a five-year law course?

    (The five-year law course was newly introduced at that time.)

    Most of my junior college buddies were focussed on graduating as either engineers or as doctors. A new engineering college was set up in our town back then and also a renowned Government medical college. Probably this contributed to many of them opting to becoming engineers or doctors.

    My upbringing in a middle class family of a State Government employee (my father) and the situation of two of my elder siblings already aiming then to become doctors made me think differently.

    Living in Kurnool town surrounded by an agrarian economy in a drought-prone region of the undivided Andhra Pradesh, I was more influenced by the agenda and focus set for social and industrial development by Telugu Desam, CPI & CPM.  I was keen to talk about the growth of industry & commerce in the region. Kurnool, Anantapur, Nandyal, Tirupati in particular started looking out for industrial and educational renaissance.

    Rayalaseema Paper Mills had just started production in those days, granite export industry was slowly picking up, Tungabhadra Industries Limited was producing vegetable oil products including Vanaspati locally and APIIDC was taking steps to create industrial parks.  Amidst such socio-political-industrial climate, the travel of my thoughts took direction of further studies in commerce and law.

    Had it not been for Justice Chandrachud (Retd) starting a five-year law course in the 4 law colleges of Tamil Nadu (Chennai, Trichy, Madurai & Coimbatore) during mid-1983, preceded by a newspaper advertisement issued by the Directorate of Legal Education, Tamil Nadu, I probably would have turned a commerce graduate in Venkateshwara University and opt for a 3 year law degree in Anantapur or Hyderabad.

     

    How was the culture back in your college days (1983-’88)?

    I joined five-year law in Coimbatore, a city that was fairly well industrialised in 1983 with many textile machinery manufacturing units & spinning mills (serving as the back office for the Mumbai mills).

    No other State (including Andhra Pradesh) started any such course in law by then and National Law Schools were not even established. The experience of being soaked in a completely different and industrially vibrant atmosphere as well as being in an educational hub of Tamil Nadu planted bigger dream of managing and leading legal services for companies, early in life.

    Our college being a Government Law College, resources for us were limited so, the students of 3 year law batch & five-year law batch both used to attend college in the same premises in morning and afternoon sessions respectively.

    India’s gender diversity efforts & girl child education were getting evident in the early ‘80s itself basis the statistics that in our own law class.  We were a total of 78 students of which 18 were girls.  Some of them are doing well now in the profession and practising law in courts today.

    Our five-year law curriculum being new, some of the books prescribed for study were not available in stores or our own college library, so we undertook visits to State and/or District libraries in different cities to gather material to study and used to share notes with other classmates.

    With no internet and Google, no online research tools, preparing for inter-collegiate debates, competitions or moots was a group activity with a lot of excitement peppered with visits to other educational institutions as well as local courts in search of willing seniors who could guide us regarding various topics.

    Our professors treated us more lovingly as we were seen as fresh and young buds who were enthusiastic to listen, be more regular to attend lectures and moots.

    Our initial law college studies also involved the experience of receiving guest lectures from professors of other colleges teaching liberal arts (Political Science, Sociology & Economics, History of India & developments leading to Constitution) as our 1st 2 years curriculum was mostly related to these subjects, apart from English, Logic & Reasoning, and Legal Writing in Tamil.

     

    How did you overcome your initial jitters in a courtroom full of experienced lawyers and judges?

    (He holds the distinction of being the first ever five-year law graduate to be enrolled as an Advocate in 1988 with the Bar Council of Andhra Pradesh, Hyderabad.)

    Preparing for the day of enrolment, wearing that black coat, tying up the white bands around neck and entering the High Court of A.P in Hyderabad with a gown on the shoulders had been a ‘dream come true’ (which actually was not so financially, as I experienced later in courts for about two and a half years but I had to go through that phase as part of the process).

    Joining a chosen senior’s office (after closely following up as to whom to join) and then getting paid Rs.750/-, a princely sum back then at the end of the first month (when no other senior counsel generally paid money to any junior) is a cherished high. A High Court judge and a District Court judge encouraging me to argue the senior’s brief and guiding me while I put across a defence. Such experiences probably are rare now due to paucity of time in courts today. The attention and time the judges gave for testing the skills of juniors like me, to observe and correct the preparedness was also a blessed high. When a District Judge advised me stoutly across the bench in an open court stating professional ethics demand that an Advocate should not visit a complainant’s home and talk of settlement on behalf of the client who engaged him was a low and as well as a learning moment.

     

    What lead you to give up litigation practice for accepting in-house legal counsel role?

    Prior to fully involving in active court practice, I attended a corporate internship in Hyderabad, a first for me in a reputed corporate group in Hyderabad. Almost 2 years later, I was blessed with an enquiry from them as to my interest in a vacant position of ‘Law Officer’. Based on the evaluation of my socio-economic background coupled with my own need for a stable income and a big dream of going in-house, I said yes to such an opportunity.  I consider myself lucky too that my joining as in-house counsel coincided with onset of liberalisation in 1991.  On personal front, the contributing factor to be unwavering in continuing to being in-house counsel was the loss of my mother a year later and then marital responsibility. There was no looking back after I joined in-house, though I did have a fair share of mirage of reflections to see myself as a practising Advocate to which I did not yield to!

     

    How are internships helpful for a law student? How was the scenario back in your days?

    Internship in an Advocate’s office and attending the courts were part of planned curriculum for our five-year law study.

    Our internship was for the entire five years of study. We would start by 8.30am in the morning in our assigned law office, work there first and move into Court and be present there until 1.00pm and later on, reach our Advocate’s office again by 5.00pm and remain there until 8.30pm. Such hours of internships for learning were possible since our classroom lectures were between 1.30pm to 5.30pm.

    The curriculum made it mandatory for us to attend a senior Advocate’s office, learn drafting,  observe client guidance by the senior as well as work of the court clerks, do case law research, know professional etiquette and ethics, observe and learn court decorum.  At the end of the year, we had to submit a project paper over the aspects learnt in our internship.  All our learning during such internship was assessed for marks as our internals by our college.

    I am happy that now, apart from internships in law firms, students of law also have the benefit of focussing on gaining knowledge through internships in corporates. Such internships are no doubt preparing the law students to be much more agile, employable and professional and learn a lot about crucial transactional non-litigation work which is a large share of corporate in-house roles.

     

    Currently, you are the Head-Corporate Legal in Godrej Industries Limited (GIL). What are your roles and responsibilities?

    Our team in Godrej Corporate Legal has about 11 in-house counsel and 2 paralegals. The team has 4 sub-function group heads. Sub-function head managers are there for (i) Contracts, M&A and business/category advisory; (ii) Brand Protection/IPR, category advisory & International business; (iii) Indirect taxes management and (iv) Litigation management.

    My role as strategic function business partner is to provide in-house legal services for the Consumer Goods, Chemicals, Retailing and Corporate HO. The role also partners with Godrej’s M&A team initiatives for inorganic growth of the consumer goods business in Indonesia, in Africa for about 14 countries, the USA, Chile & Argentina.

    An average work-day in Godrej is ‘a day to look forward to’ since the consumer goods, the most dynamic amongst all, sets up an agenda of good amount of in-house legal service activity both for India as well as overseas. At the same time, the work-life balance afforded to the employees by Godrej are of world-class standards offering us flexible working hours (core hours being defined as 10.30am to 5.00pm), well laid out policy on gender diversity and inclusion, a ‘work from home’ facility when required and approval for sick leave without a limit when such a situation arises.

    Godrej’s philosophy of human resource assessment relies on 3 key pillars (Leading Self, Leading Others, and Leading Business).Further, ‘the Godrej way’ makes it important to constantly remind myself about ‘Godrej way and the Purpose/Objective’, the importance of ‘Trust’, the characteristic to ‘Be Bold’, to undertake the best effort and ‘Create Delight’ for your customers and therefore ‘Own it’ to deliver, and simultaneously ‘Be Humble’ and ‘Show Respect’ to people as much as you expect from them.

     

    What are the qualities which Godrej looks for in one’s CV while applying for internship?

    GIL offers law students internships and the intake is limited to 2 students per annum at present.  The applications for such internships are received processed by our Corporate HR based on prior assessment and notification of such intern needs by the heads of the sub-function groups.

    Criteria in Godrej for assessment of any candidate’s CV are (i) individual’s Initiative, (ii) hunger to learn & improve, (iii) emotional and social awareness and (iv)positive mind-set for collaboration’.

     

    You were bestowed with “India’s finest in-house counsel” in 2016 .What is the success mantra?

    (This recognition is given by the Indian Corporate Counsel Association & the Ministry of Commerce.)

    Any bright young lawyer who is able to practise the following principles will definitely taste success and will himself amongst ‘successful in-house counsel in India’ :

    1) Believe in yourself; 2) Be humble to learn every day; 3) Be respectful of others; 4) Have patience to practise and persevere and (5) Accept to kiss & hug any change.

  • Santanu Mukherjee, Founder, Ex Lege Chambers, and his involvement in multilateral negotiations at the global level

    Santanu Mukherjee, Founder, Ex Lege Chambers, and his involvement in multilateral negotiations at the global level

    Santanu Mukherjee graduated in Law from South Calcutta Law College, Calcutta University in the year 1998. He is an Advocate and an accredited Mediator practicing in New Delhi. He is currently the founder and Head of Ex Lege Chambers, Advocates and Regulatory, Policy Advisors, a boutique law office.

    Over the past twenty years of his work experience he has worked in Statutory and Regulatory Policy, Commercial Mediation and Litigation practice while specializing in Intellectual Property Rights, Competition Law and International Trade Law. His clientele comprise of entities from governments and large corporations to start-ups.

    Recently he has been awarded the prestigious Intellectual Property Lawyer of the Year Award 2017 from the Indian National Bar Association.

    In this interview, he gives us insights into:

    • The importance of extra-curricular in shaping your personality.
    • His international work at the South Centre.
    • Setting up his own firm- Ex Lege Chambers.
    • Honing one’s legal research and communication skills.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I would like to introduce myself as a legal professional and a mediator, who is passionate in seeking solutions to legal problems and ready to go deep into a matter that I take up. Someone who is passionate to continuously learn, be a thoughtful leader and a change agent, someone who does what he believes in.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    My childhood and college days had been fascinating, I was always interested in extra-curricular, was extremely disciplined and loved to do social work. I studied in Don Bosco Bandel School and was very active as a boys scout. It was long time back but I still cherish the memories of public cleanliness initiatives we took up and volunteering activities in community fairs and traffic rules awareness programmes. Of course the adventure activities were fun, hiking, rock climbing, trekking and the competitions. It developed a deep bond of brotherhood that is still live; I am in touch with many of my childhood friends and my scout brothers even now. Finally an acknowledgment for life, it was a great honour to be awarded by the Hon’ble President of India as a President’s Scout.

    Then came the college days, at South Calcutta Law College, studies were as one could expect in a Law college those days, no frills of moots but occasional debates. However, here again I was focused on some different type of extra-curricular, I enrolled with No. 2 Bengal Air Sqn, National Cadet Corps (NCC) and was the only student from a Law college at the NCC unit. It was again another wonderful memory, the weekly parades, the skeet shootings, the glider flying, the extempore preparing for the best cadet competition, it was a unique experience. In the three years of Senior Division NCC, I rose to be the Senior Under Officer, a learning of leadership that is a training for life. Preparing for the Republic Day camp was an ordeal; I was selected as the West Bengal and Sikkim contingent senior and with it came a sense of responsibility, fellow feeling. The camaraderie was unbelievable, the contingent was tight even during challenging moments, and these thoughts still make me nostalgic. The love and support of my trainers, fellow cadets enabled me to work hard and get the Best Cadet of West Bengal and Sikkim Directorate medal from the Hon’ble Governor of West Bengal. My childhood was adventurous and full of activities of rather unconventional outdoors. I am sharing these thoughts since I want to make a point that there is learning in everything, in sports, in community work, in adventure activities, all can contribute to making our personality.

    I do not have lawyers in my immediate family, my father was a polymer technologist and my mother is an artist and home maker and both of them have always been a great inspiration for me. My only sister has not taken up legal profession either, however my maternal cousin, who is elder to me, had been a practicing lawyer at the Calcutta High Court. She inspired me a lot but I specialized in IPR early hence professionally could not gain much when she was a general litigator.

     

    In India there is bit of resistance towards legal education even now. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Yes, very true, legal education was not at all promoted; some people even had a very negative perspective of legal professionals. Things have changed now to a certain extent and is improving every day. I think a lot of credit goes to structured legal education that has been introduced, the contribution of the National Law Schools and entry to legal education through Common Law Admission Test.

    Typically when one talks of Law as a career, one thinks of becoming a lawyer who would interpret Law and of course aspire to be elevated to the bench one day. In my days as a student, my Law career goals were similar, only that I always wanted to work on international issues and wanted to be an expert. I was exposed to Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) at an early phase, when I was preparing for the NCC Best Cadet competition; I read about the General Agreement on Trade Tariffs (GATT) and the negotiations on IPR, discussion on the ‘Dunkel Draft’ was in the newspapers. My curiosity made me read more and I liked the IP Law discipline and at the final stage of my Law studies was already more aware than most practising lawyers (those not practicing IP law). However, gradually what really intrigued me was ‘Law making’ and this has been a constant motivating factor, to be able to draft a Law from scratch and the grand finale perhaps to be able to move it as a Law maker.

    You have a varied work experience, how did you start, how was your initial days of law practice?

    It’s true that I have a varied work experience, in fact I always wanted to get a 360° exposure to different works in Law. Having started as an Advocate at the Calcutta High Court, I moved beyond whenever I got an opportunity. I started as a Law trainee at S. Jalan and Company, a leading Solicitors’ chambers in Kolkata and was fortunate to be under the tutelage of Mr. Shyamanand Jalan. He was one of the leading corporate and commercial lawyers of the time in Kolkata at that time and I will always be indebted to his guidance towards meticulous drafting and his pragmatic approach. The GATT 1995 was already signed and the World Trade Organization was formed. The Agreement on Trade Related aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) was one of the pillars of the WTO multilateral trade regime. My interest in IPRs landed me at D. P. Ahuja and Co., one of the leading IP Attorneys at Kolkata. I was quickly drawn into IP litigation work, new learning experience amidst some of the legal experts in IPR practice, one of whom was later elevated to the Bench at the Calcutta High Court. I was bonded to IPR domain for ever while gradually expanding to different other areas in the days to come. Later I went to York England to read Law at the College of Law of England and Wales, now University of Law, York, UK.

     

    You were a British Chevening scholar in UK, can you let us know how was your interview to give our readers some tips to nail the scholarship. What did you study and how was it helpful in your career? During this time you were also a visiting lawyer at the Littleton Chambers, Inner Temple Bar, London, how was your experience?

    Indeed, I attended the British Chevening Programme for Young Indian Corporate, Commercial Lawyers 2000 at the College of Law of Engaland and Wales at York, now University of Law, York, U.K. I understand that this programme is not continued any longer, I am told that instead the number of LL.M. Chevening scholarship offers have been increased. I qualified in the preliminary interview at Kolkata and appeared before the final interview in New Delhi. It was a panel interview of five members which included a Supreme Court practitioner, two academic faculty members of the College of Law, one of who was also a qualified British barrister and the other a solicitor and I think there were members from British Council and the High Commission in New Delhi. I enjoyed the interview which was more of a discussion about my career plans, IPR issues and a tricky trademark infringement matter and some generic questions.

    The scholarship programme was a customized for legal practitioners and touched on laws of England and Wales and the European Union as well, often drew comparison with the Indian laws. A number of corporate and commercial Law subjects were covered but what I really found fascinating was the trainings in lawyering skills. The Woolf Reforms and the Civil Procedure Rules of 1998 had just come into effect the year before we went to England. The legal drafting style in England and Wales had already experienced a sea change, crisp lucid language was in vogue. We were quite taken by surprise but the unlearning of the Indian legal drafting style and adapting to the new style was perhaps necessary. The drafting sessions and the courses on negotiation and advocacy which I attended in the programme were excellent and definitely helped me later on as a lawyer.

    I had already gained some experience in drafting and negotiating skills working at the Solicitor’s firm in Kolkata hence wanted to get some exposure to good advocacy. This made me split my practical attachments between Beresford and Company an IP Attorney Firm well known for their hi-tech practice (now Beresford Crump LLP) and Littleton Chambers, Inner Temple Bar. At that time Littleton Chambers was not one of the leading chambers for IPR matters but had quite a wide variety of matters. I wanted to gain maximum from this wide exposure hence opted for the Littleton Chambers to get a real life experience of advocacy in English courts. I could join different barristers at the Royal Court of Justice in London, the Employment Tribunal in Leeds and watch them plead. They had also arranged a visit to the Old Bailey (the central Criminal Court of England and Wales) for me; it was quite a unique experience. I liked the work culture of the chambers, the discussions and the warmth. I could also get a ticket to attend a lecture of Lord Rt Hon Lord Woolf who was the author of the legal reforms, it was quite a treat.

     

    You have spent some time in doing legal research work and policy work, how did you get interested in such works?

    The founding stone to my interest in doing legal research is actually my master’s studies at Bern, Switzerland. The IPR related issues that I worked on were interesting but I was interested to understand the interface issues between IPR and international trade laws as established under the WTO regime. The first five years of the transition period for developing countries to adopt TRIPS was over and India had already suffered a setback at the first IPR case. The Panel of the Dispute Settlement Body (DSB) of the WTO found India’s Patent law not in compliance with its WTO commitment. I felt that for a developing country like India, WTO regulations would be important for the coming future and it would be worth studying it deeper.

    At that time, a friend informed me of the World Trade Institute in Bern, Switzerland providing a Master’s programme in International Law and Economics with exclusive focus on WTO regulations. Although initially I was reluctant since it was a new institute but given the reputation of Bern University and having some of the leading names from Yale, Oxford, Columbia Universities and many others as members of faculty I was convinced. I managed to get a scholarship from the Institute and successfully complete it and I gained immensely from our Managing Director, Prof. Thomas Cottier who was also the chairman of the first IPR case decided by the WTO between USA and India. I had already done an internship at the WTO Secretariat in Geneva which gave me an inside view of how the WTO worked. Further, it also gave me an opportunity to sit in the TRIPS Council meetings and understand the importance of strategy and the play of tactics in multilateral negotiations.

    My master’s studies involved significant legal research and actually it also opened my door to policy work which involved critically analysing laws, recommending changes and took me to a step ahead of my interest in drafting laws. It gave me a feeling that I can contribute in works that can have mass effect and encouraged me to undertake deeper legal research based policy work rather than rhetorical advocacy. By now I had already noticed that in continental Europe, lawyers dedicate time doing legal research while in India such research is only taken up by academics. I decided to adopt this model and try for some fellowship at some renowned research institute and my exploration led me to the Max Planck Institute for Intellectual Property and Competition Law (MPI) in Munich, Germany. At MPI, I worked on interface between IPR and multilateral trade regulations under the WTO and the Indian Patent Law and protection of traditional knowledge and the research foundation helped me all through later. Based on my work published an article at their peer-reviewed journal, IIC and made presentations including at the Global Salzburg Seminar on Trade, Aid and Development.

     

    Tell us about your international work at the South Centre, what was the nature of your work and your return to India.

    After completing my research at the MPI I was contemplating moving back to full time legal practice when I got an interesting opportunity. The South Centre, an intergovernmental organisation of developing countries based in Geneva working along the UN organizations and chaired by Dr. B.B. Ghali, former Secretary General of the UN was looking for a Fellow with IPR practice and research background. I was familiar with the Centre’s works and also that our former Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh was its chairman when it was still in the form of South Commission, I was quite excited when I cleared the interview to join the South Centre. As a Fellow I worked in the capacity of a consultant and enjoyed certain perks as an international civil servant similar to the UN staff which itself was a new experience.

    My main work was on pharmaceutical patents and how developing countries could draft examination guidelines in a manner helpful to their developmental needs, but remaining within the TRIPS Agreement. I was also deeply involved in preparing negotiating texts for on-going IPR negotiations at the WIPO and WTO including those on geographical indications. It was quite an unique opportunity to prepare draft laws and amendments to patent laws for member countries that lacked capacity and it’s very satisfying to note that some became laws in those countries. I worked very closely with WIPO, WTO UNCTAD and other IGOs on different international issues. South Centre used to hold training sessions for commerce ministry officials of member countries regularly, it was absolute pleasure to model such training courses and teach these trade diplomats. One of the new learning was to present technical matters in a non-lawyerly manner since the bureaucrats were seasoned generalists but not always familiar with legalistic approach. Once my project was complete, instead of waiting for some other project, I thought that I should return to India and explore opportunities back home.

     

    You have been working in Delhi for about 10 years now and have started your own Law office, how did it come by?

    Many friends had advised me against leaving Geneva, they tried to convince me that I would be able to contribute more by being there rather than returning. However, I took the decision to return to Kolkata and after an initial year moving back to legal practice and consulting, I realised that if I want to continue working on policy, I needed to move to Delhi.

    Once I decided to move to New Delhi, I started discussing work possibilities with some Law firms when Qualcomm, an advanced wireless technology company based in San Diego, California approached me for a lawyer role. I was not aware that Qualcomm’s presence in India was big enough for an India-based role and that too they were looking for someone who had a background in IPR and a deep understanding of the international trade regime. Initially, I was not that convinced for the position since had never expected myself in any in-house role but as it happened with me, “never say never”. After some thoughts and discussing with some seniors whom I consider as mentors, I concluded that this would be a new experience for me and fulfil my aim of getting exposed to law at 360°.

    I tried to chalk out what should be my learning in the three to five years that I intend to stay and thought that it would be worth understanding how to form legal strategies, manage outreach and learn how they engage with governments. It was a great experience as I moved in with the global team within a short time. I was a part of an international team with lawyers from different countries all working in synergy. The experience of working with multiple internal clients in different jurisdictions in a wholesome manner considering the business impact is something unique and completely different from that of an external counsel. As I engaged in different works I never realised that even when I had thought that I will transit out after five years, I continued for 8 years enjoying every bit of my work.

    Finally, I decided that it is time for me to return to mainstream legal practice and discussed my intent of moving back to practice with friends and family. It was a difficult decision since I was a family man and the corporate legal work comes with some leisurely perks and a different work style. I talked to some senior lawyer friends and finally took the decision to join Luthra and Luthra Law Offices after talking to Mr. Rajiv Luthra, Manging Partner. I joined as Partner and Head of International Trade and Policy Advisory practice and enjoyed the policy advisory work including trade matters working closely with different governments as well as private corporate clients. However, I soon realised that I would not be able to introduce a number of prospective clients even when they have approached me and I have an excellent relationship with them given the conflicts problem that affect large firms across the globe. I understood that with the firm’s established clients, it would be difficult for me to create my own clientele and felt an urge to be independent. As it has always been, once decided I have never looked back, I started Ex Lege Chambers, a boutique law chambers, an independent effort with strong support from close friends.

     

    You have founded Ex Lege Chambers and call it a boutique chambers, how is it different from any other law firm?

    Always fascinated with my experience at Littleton Chambers in London, when I introduced this concept to a dear friend, a litigator at the Supreme Court and Delhi High Court, he was game to it. From day one he supported me as a co-founder and I established Ex Lege Chambers, Advocates and Regulatory, Policy Advisors in New Delhi. Typically like chambers legal practice elsewhere and distinguished from law firms, the lawyers are independent members and share costs and not profits. Keeping costs as low as possible, our aim as a boutique chambers is to provide complete support to our clients in a dedicated manner rather than be in a hurry to scale up.

    At present we are mainly focused on Dispute Resolution, Alternate Dispute Resolution (ADR) and Policy Advisories as well as corporate legal support. We aim to increase our commercial mediation work within the ADR services and hopefully make our mark in deal mediation. Given the global move for resolving conflicts quicker, mediation plays and will increasingly play a major role and I think that India would gain from adopting mediation in a major manner. Being a boutique chambers has also helped us to address needs of the start-up clients providing complete legal service package for all their needs.

    The chamber does not follow the concept of hiring lawyers at any level. A client work would be supervised by a lead counsel (as of now the founders) and considering client requirements, a team of counsels at two levels. The first level with around five to seven years’ experience is retained as members and the second level with three to five years’ experience as junior members. Depending on the nature of work freshly qualified Advocates can also find a place as trainee members. Trainee members are exposed to close mentoring and get an opportunity to learn.

     

    You have been involved in multilateral negotiations at the global level can you share your experience.

    Apart from my involvement in WTO, WIPO, UNCTAD and ITU while working in Geneva, while working with Qualcomm too, I was actively involved in some multilateral negotiations. One such experience is at the United Nations Framework Conference on Climate Change (UNFCCC) Conference of Parties (COP). Interesting to note that in these negotiations only governments can be negotiating parties while the decisions taken affect many stakeholders including private sector. To address private sector concerns, it is possible for private sector to engage in track 1.5 / track 2 negotiations, i.e. attend the COP as observers and hold parallel negotiations with country delegations. I was part of the delegation of Business Council of Sustainable Energy which held an observer status at UNFCCC and attended the COPs at Copenhagen (2009), Durban (2011) and Doha (2012).

    I was focused on the technology-transfer negotiations related to climate change mitigating technologies. The debate on access to patented clean energy technologies negotiations through track 1.5 track 2 at a number of COPs with extreme positions being taken by negotiating parties.

    Like any other multilateral negotiations, the engagements started early in the morning and went on until late in the evenings. Just to give an idea of the works, we would access country positions that were published in UNFCCC documents and changed as the negotiations proceeded, analyse them considering client needs and as needed, prepare alternate texts. Then we used to hold parallel meetings with different relevant delegations to explain our position substantiating with data and valid reasons so that once convinced, they can raise these at their negotiating meetings.

    In between there were different meetings and briefings to attend, Among the COPs that I have attended, I will remember the Copenhagen COP vividly because of its administrative collapse when I waited for eight hours at minus 12°C to get an entry pass. There were also massive protests and police action against demonstrators. The negotiating styles of different countries were also worth noting and how these styles actually manoeuvred the results of the negotiations.

     

    Many lawyers are submerged in work most of the time and often find it challenging to juggle between your personal and professional life? How do you look at work-life balance?

    Lawyers’ work demands a considerable bit of time, I think that in the initial years’ lawyers would need to work very hard and long hours would be normal. However, there seems to be a growing trend in law firms to stay back for long hours to create a perception that one is working hard, this unfortunately brings no dividend and I think should be avoided. For me, being independent gives me the flexibility to take up work that I can manage and can give sufficient attention without compromising on my other interests. Apart from spending time with family, my other interests include lecturing at law schools at times engage in public discourses in seminars and conferences and writing articles.

     

    The trend is now on gathering various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario same while you were pursuing law?

    I believe that internships are mandatory in the five years law curriculum hence the students spend time interning at different law firms during their vacations. While I think internships are important, I do not think that doing a month’s internship at a place during vacations allow the students to gain any meaningful exposure. Although some are very hardworking and able to gain some good experience, I think one would need at least for two or three months to get a good exposure. However, since the setup is such that students would hardly get few months’ time, the students should plan well in advance and try to learn different lawyering skills through their practical exposure while being attached to work related to the discipline that they like.

    During my law college days there was no concept of internship although those coming from lawyer’s families usually spent time at the firms and chambers. I realised that since I was not from a lawyer’s family, getting practical experience was essential hence managed to join a law firm as legal trainee and worked there beyond college hours.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students / younger corporate commercial lawyers?

    Law students while they are still at school/college need to make sure that they improve their listening skills, communications skills, both written and verbal and legal research skills. All the rest can be developed while working as freshly qualified lawyers. If they are interested in any particular legal domain, they should put in an extra effort to know more about the subject through reading of learned articles, following good blogs and also writing articles at law journals. In addition they should also read news and current affairs in a manner that they are well aware about what’s happening around them. This would help them engage in any pertinent discussion without difficulty. The skill of being able to initiate and engage in a conversation is always helpful for a lawyer. I wish all law students and young lawyers to be able to put in their best to contribute in whatever field they pursue, as I stated earlier, law is a discipline in which a 360° approach is not just possible, it can be rewarding.

  • Satyajeet Desai, Advocate and Editor of Mulla on Hindu Law, on building an illustrious practice in litigation

    Satyajeet Desai, Advocate and Editor of Mulla on Hindu Law, on building an illustrious practice in litigation

    Satyajeet A. Desai qualified in law from L. A. Shah College, Gujarat University, in 1988. Soon after graduation he started practice under the tutelage of Suresh Shelat and thereafter Kirtikant Nanavati. In the years to come he worked extensively in various laws including Company and Securities Law and garnered a lot of recognition and accolades.

    He is currently practicing at the Gujarat High Court and is known widely as an authority on Hindu Law. He is the current editor of “Mulla on Hindu law” and of “S.T Desai on Partnership”, both published by the LexisNexis Butterworths.

    In this dialogue with him, we speak to him about:

    • His life as a lawyer and a lecturer.
    • His role in contributing to the literature on Hindu Law.
    • His experience with Companies, International Airlines and Individuals.
    • His ideas about evolution of “Advocacy” as a profession.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your pre-college years, your life as a student and your ambitions as a young man. Did you have lawyers in your family or among close relatives who inspired you?

    Every youngster has dreams of following some profession or doing some business. Academically, I was better than an average student, my strong points being languages and history rather that mathematics and science. I always scored really well in languages and history and realising this, I decided on the profession of Law as my career choice. I believe that what shapes one’s career decision is not only one’s choices but also the atmosphere one surrounds himself with. In my case, my grandfather, late Justice S. T. Desai has been my hero and idol. Observing him working as a leading Senior Advocate at the Supreme Court, inspired me to become a lawyer. Again, I come from a long line of lawyers, with my great grandfather T. R. Desai and his father R. K. Desai before him both being lawyers of repute.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was and when did you actually experience the learning curve? Also, looking at the booms and busts in the legal industry, what do you think about the future of legal education in India?

    In our time during the Mid-Eighties, the law programme was for three years. There were no five year courses offered as they are today. We had some fine professors and visiting faculties, so overall, my law college experience was quite good. The future augurs well for the profession.

    The Legal education in our country is good, but the number of law colleges should not mushroom much. I would want successful lawyers to come forward and teach the students, because their experiences would benefit them more, as compared to only learning the basics at law schools. I would love to quote an incident during my student days here.

    Once the Professor for Drafting and Pleadings, who was a leading civil court practitioner himself, gave us a home assignment, asking us to draft a Plaint on behalf of an illiterate lady whose property had been taken over by fraud. We all turned in the assignment, duly completed. After a couple of days, the professor told us that though the Plaints were good, only one would pass muster that was mine. The reason was that apart from the issue at hand, I also concentrated on the Plaintiff being illiterate and I placed a thumb mark where the Plaint was supposed to be affirmed. He pointed that out to all of us.

    Later, he asked me how I hit upon the correct thing to do. I told him that “I probably looked up for the same book from which you gave us the assignment.” He said, “You have managed to do two things today, draft well, and look up for older precedents”. This was a valuable lesson indeed!

     

    Did you participate in any extracurricular activities while at law school?

    I participated in moot court competitions when I was in law school. There were not many moot court competitions then, but that was a good learning experience for me. It also helped me to work with what was to come later. So far as the internships are concerned, during our early years, we did not have any formal internships as in the five year law programme today, but as I said, I wanted to be nothing else but a lawyer, so, I interned with Mr. Suresh Shelat, a Senior Advocate at Gujarat High Court, from the end of the first year at law school till my last year. With this Internship, I got hands on experience of Courts and Litigation and this helped me get an early exposure to the world of Indian courts.

     

    What are your areas of interest in the legal field?

    I have always been interested to work on commercial laws, and I have been working on the same as well. I also had the opportunity of working on an interesting matter on Aviation Law, the matter relating to an air crash. The case involved an International Convention to be interpreted. For me, the point of interest was the reciprocity arrangement between the two airlines, The carrier that crashed and the International Airline, I represented. I succeeded to show the lack of reciprocity arrangement between the airlines.

    Another field I am very passionate about is Hindu Law. It is fascinating and challenging as the basis lies in old and classical Hindu Law, despite legislations like the Hindu Succession Act and Hindu Marriage Act.

     

    How were your early years as a lawyer?

    My professional journey as a lawyer was full of challenges. After working with Mr. Suresh Shelat, I worked with Kirtikant Nanavati, Senior Advocate, at his law firm. I would like to share here an incident- once, when I was working with Mr. Shelat.

    Mr. Shelat was arguing a matter before the High Court, which spilled to the afternoon session. The issue was interesting, so I went to the High Court Library in the afternoon and I looked up on a particular issue that I felt was important. I found a judgment on that issue and showed it to my senior. In the course of his arguments later, he referred to that issue and the judgment. The court allowed the matter based on that issue. When the court asked him about the issue, my senior pointed out last and pointing towards me he told the court that, ” my associate Mr. Desai must take the credit for that.” I was floored with the magnanimity shown by Mr. Shelat to a raw junior at the Bar.

    When you are a junior, you not only try to do your best so that it helps you develop as a lawyer, but you also try to get a foothold in a very challenging profession. I believe that hard work and dedication, both, are required to excel, no matter what the field be.

     

    You have a long and illustrious career as one of the most reputed advocates in India and as a top notch Jurist. What are the primary soft skills necessary in order to have a successful career in the legal profession?

    A lot of times lawyers come across as assertive and opinionated because of the nature of their profession. But that is a part of the overall build-up of a lawyer. I would like to mention a few soft skills, as you call them, which are necessary to have a successful career in the legal profession.

    The first and foremost being that a lawyer must have the patience to listen to his client and gather the necessary information that will help him or her understand what the client wants. Another skill that I think is important is guiding the client properly. Clients sometimes come to us wanting to take immediate legal recourse by the way of litigation. The real success of a lawyer in such a situation is, to try and ascertain whether the issue can be settled by correspondence, and or negotiation. For me, Litigation is always the last resort.

     

    How was the court atmosphere before as distinguished from now? Did judges talk kindly to new orators? Also, please share with us your experiences during the first few sessions of the court? Do you think it has become more difficult for a fresher to be successful?

    When I initially started my practice, we had some Judges who were really good to the juniors. Their encouragement to perform always encouraged us to better ourselves. I would again like to quote an incident here.

    As a newly minted lawyer, I filed a Petition on behalf of an employee of the Central Government. The petition was against his new transfer soon after he had been transferred to Ahmedabad. The rule then was that normally an employee should not be transferred for 3 years. The judge during the initial hearing, probably wanting to know whether I had researched on the issue, asked me whether there was any judgment on the issue?

    On my affirmative reply, he asked me to come back in the afternoon session with that Judgment. I said that I had the judgment right there and I sought the permission to site it, but before I could open the book, the judge issued notice and granted a stay. He told me that he wanted to find out whether I was ready with the precedent or not.

    I would also like to quote one more incident which is close to my heart. A lawyer had filed a revision application challenging an order of the Civil Court. I was on the opposing side. I succeeded at the end of the hearing. A few months thereafter, I filed a similar matter with the same lawyer opposing me. He pointed out the earlier order to the Judge. The Judge looked at me, smiled and said, “Mr. Desai, you can’t win them all. Petition Dismissed.” I replied with an answer that a similar thing happened to Abraham Lincoln when he was practicing law. The judge asked me about the incident. I replied that when Lincoln was defending a matter in the morning session, the Plaintiff failed and Lincoln succeeded for the Defendant. He was appearing in a similar matter for the Plaintiff in the afternoon session. The judge told him that he must fail now because he succeeded in a similar matter in the morning session. To this. Lincoln’s reply was a classic. He said “I was wrong in the morning session, so I must succeed now.” Well, I lost the matter, but the Judge asked to borrow the book I read the quote from.

    According to me, to become successful, and by that, I don’t mean monetarily, one must put in hard work and inculcate the habit of general and vast reading, even apart from law. For a fresher to be successful, he or she must put in the labour. Success never comes overnight.

     

    In the past you participated in the Law Commission Workshop on making changes to the Hindu Succession Act. How was the experience?

    Yes, I was invited to a workshop by the Law commission in 1998, when changes to the Hindu Succession Act were being debated upon.

    For one, the experience was very satisfying, as you feel that you are helping towards the progressive development of law. The recommendations presented in that workshop ultimately culminated into amendments to the Hindu Succession Act in 2005. We were debating over a particular issue and one of the delegates posed a question to which Justice Jeevan Reddy, the then Chairman of the Law Commission replied. Justice Leela Seth, the then Vice Chairman, looked at me and asked about my thoughts on the issue. In a lighter vein, I replied that whatever I wanted to say, I already wrote in Mulla’s Hindu Law. Of course, I answered the question thereafter.

     

    You are a visiting lecturer at several colleges. How is it important for a lawyer to pass on the learning and the experience?

    Currently, I am a visiting faculty at LJ College in Ahmedabad. I have previously lectured at Ahmedabad University, United World Law College and Knowledge Academy. I am often called for guest lectures at various colleges. As I mentioned earlier, I believe that it is very essential for a practicing lawyer to teach at least a few times a year .It would help the students get hold of what they will be facing when they enter the profession. Knowledge only increases when you pass it on.

     

    You are greatly interested in writing and reading outside of law, can you throw some more light on your hobbies?

    So far as my hobbies are concerned, I would say that reading is a must. I get drawn into whatever book I read, whether it be fiction or non-fiction. Writing on law is passion and a prayer for me. People go to places of worship to pray but for me, writing is my prayer; it’s my holy grail. I would also add here that if you want to write on law, firstly you should be passionate about the subject you want to write about and secondly, you must research it well. Your analysis of law must be palatable in order to be accepted. Also, the language must be lucid and proper so that the reader immediately grasps the point .

     

    What were the landmarks of your career? Please share with us the challenges and achievements you came across on your journey from being a fresh graduate to one of the most renowned lawyers/jurists in Family Law practice?

    Success is a relative concept, looked at from different angles and eyes. I have appeared for Companies, International Airlines, and a lot of Individuals. You may feel that I am underplaying the situation, but I got great satisfaction in appearing for the companies that challenged an order by the Government, and we were successful in that challenge. But I got the greater satisfaction when I appeared for the three poor brothers whose lands were resumed by the Government, and I successfully helped them out, pro bono. I also do a lot of opinion work on Hindu law and some factual situations I came across, fascinate me even today, because the facts for the most part, are always unique. Being invited for the workshop on the Hindu Succession Act was a landmark for my career.

     

    You have several best-selling legal books like ‘Mulla on Hindu Law and S T Desai on Partnership’ to your credit. How important is writing for you?

    Legal writing is very important for me. It is my passion. After all, words are a lawyer’s tools and what better way to contribute to this great profession than to give something back by writing on subjects that you are passionate about.

     

    Can you describe a regular day in your life?

    My typical day starts around 5 AM. I Get up, have a rejuvenating cup of coffee, start reading for whatever court work I have that day, go to court and attend hearings I have. Back home after court, I attend the meetings with clients (in my case non litigation clients on Hindu law as well). I teach once a week, which keeps me firmly earthed and I also stay in touch with academia.

     

    What advice would you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    My advice to law students is that study well but also indulge yourself with general reading as that will help you in building your overall personality as a lawyer. Amongst all the professions, law is probably the only profession where you are required to interact a lot verbally. Keep reading and stay updated with the current news and events. You never know when it might come to your aid, After all, a lawyer is required to think on his feet. General reading helps a lot. Your arguments may sound even better if they are interspersed with quotes or similar situations or even humour at times.

     

  • Shravan Kumar Bansal, Senior Partner, United IPR on building a successful practice in intellectual property law for over a span of two decades

    Shravan Kumar Bansal, Senior Partner, United IPR on building a successful practice in intellectual property law for over a span of two decades

    Shravan Kumar Bansal qualified in law from the Campus Law Centre, Delhi University in 1989. Shravan is a science graduate in the field of Botany, Zoology and Biotechnology and armed with a degree in Law and substantial expertise in patent litigation he is a renowned expert in IPR litigation, counterfeiting and Anton Pillar actions.

    With experience spanning over two decades in litigation he also has expertise in prosecution and enforcement of patents, trademark and copyright cases. He advises clients on diverse aspects of intellectual property including ownership and enforcement matters in India and abroad. He is on the panel of number of Indian as well as international companies and trade-oriented organizations. He is an active member of accredited International IPR organizations and has to his credit several landmark IPR reported judgments passed by different courts in India.

     

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His journey as a litigating lawyer
    • Importance of IPR in the contemporary times
    • The task of taking over family legal practice
    • His experience with international IPR organisations and landmark judgments in India

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    I do come from a  family of lawyers, and I belong to the third generation of lawyers in my family. My grandfather was a leading taxation advocate and the Intellectual Property practice was started by my father in 1954. Practising solely in the field of IP Law since 1954, we happen to be one of the first full-service IPR Law Firms in the country dealing solely and dedicatedly in IP Law.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law after pursuing the sciences? How did you realise your interest in the legal field? How was your experience at law school?

    Science was a subject of personal interest to me as I have always maintained that studying science opens one’s mind to greater curiosity and spirit of inquiry and develops analytical ability in a person which really helps a person in any and all spheres of life and profession. Studying science at the graduation level in the field of Botany, Zoology and Biotechnology has really helped me in Patent Litigation matters and Patent Filings/Analysis of inventions in my profession. My interest in the legal field developed when I was quite young as I was watching my father argue important matters in the court, which gave me a sense of passion and pride and made me want to follow in his footsteps. My experience at law school was one which is difficult to forget, having a great time with friends enjoying college life and reading interesting subjects of law at law school, followed by my daily visit to my father’s law chamber where I used to spend hours on endafter law school, learning the nuances of this profession.

     

    What piqued your interest in the field of Intellectual Property Law? Can you describe the relevance of this field today in context of domestic and international law?

    I believe that Intellectual Property Law is one of the very few domains of legal practice (apart from Arbitration Law possibly) which is truly global in its outreach and relevance. Criminal Law, Civil Law matters and other domains of the legal practice I believe are nationalized and localized in their approach and relevance; as such laws are limited and vary/differ from one jurisdiction to another. Intellectual Property Law, as opposed to these, offers a global platform for practice in terms of serving a global clientele for their brand protection and IP matters. This is one of the few factors about the IP practice which captures my interest and imagination.

    As to your question about relevance of Intellectual Property law in today’s scenario with respect to domestic and international law, I believe Intellectual Property law is one of the few domains in today’s time which is playing a pivotal role in shaping national and international polices of nations and legal structures at large. Intellectual Property law is intrinsically related to a country’s economy and commerce. The degree of protection which a country is able to offer to the industry in terms of the legal framework in place to protect and encourage intellectual property directly impacts the level of commerce and innovation taking place in the country, as well as the amount of foreign investment coming in. This is the reason why we can see a marked shift in the policy and intention of the present Indian Government which is taking huge steps in areas such as digitizing IP Registration processes, lowering the time taken to grant trademark, copyright and patent registrations by the government and promoting easier enforcement of IP rights through support of enforcement agencies like the Police, Customs and Courts.

     

    What are your views on the importance and necessity of higher education? What would be your advice to readers undecided about pursuing further studies?

    “Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere”, is what I believe. However, I do not believe that learning only comes from higher education such as a master’s degree or further higher studies. Of course a Masters Program or such other higher study programs do add to one’s skill set but so does practical experience in the profession and I believe that if one is armed with a basic bachelor’s degree in law in this country, he has ammunition enough to build on that through his own practice and practical learning experiences in the profession.

    I have seen instances of advocates benefitting from pursuing higher education and have also seen others benefit from using those years to excel and learn during  practice of the profession instead.

     

    Can you recall the first time you appeared in court in a significant matter? How did you prepare for this? What is the attitude of judges and senior lawyers towards young lawyers?

    In my opinion, the attitude of judges and senior lawyers towards young lawyers in India is highly motivating and encouraging as opposed to the general perception which exists, that the attitude is not very positive and embracing. I believe that if a young lawyer possesses the required legal acumen, is well read with his research and has a positive, accommodative and learning attitude, he would be well received by his colleagues and also by senior lawyers and judges.

    I do recall the first time I appeared in court in a significant matter – It was before the Delhi High Court in a Patent Infringement matter. I had prepared thoroughly for this and was lucky enough to have the relief granted in my favour.

     

    You have been involved in various landmark cases that have shaped the law relating to IPR in India. How did you prepare you arguments in cases where the law was silent?

    Yes, I do feel privileged to be a part of landmark cases which shape the law relating to this domain in India. Interestingly cases do crop up time and again where the law is silent on a complex situation of fact and for which the statue doesn’t really have a straight answer. I believe the rules of interpretation of statutes and borrowings from international jurispudence/case law come in handy in such situations and I have seen judges in my own cases rely on international jurisprudence and arguments based on suggested interpretation of statutes to grant reliefs in such cases.

     

    Can you tell us about some landmark matters you have worked on and how the court interpreted the point of law?

    Again, I feel privileged to have have had the honour of working on various landmark cases which have helped shape the Intellectual Property jurisprudence in this country through judgements of the courts in these cases. Some such cases are where the court recognized the rights of my clients in the shape trademarks of their products (non-conventional trademarks) for the purpose of enforcement on the basis of the wide use, reputation, goodwill and trans-boundary use of the marks, even when my clients did not have statutory trademark registrations of these marks. The court interpreted the point of law on the basis of the doctrine of passing off in trademark law.

    In a separate set of cases, the courts recognized the rights of my clients in the colour combinations used on their packaging for the purpose of issuing and injunction against the opposite party, restraining it on account of creating confusion in the market following the doctrines of trademark infringement, passing off and rights in trade dress and colour combinations.

     

    How are custom duties imposed on IPR? How does this tie to international trade law?

    (Shravan has worked closely with governmental authorities in relation to matters of customs enforcement for intellectual property in India.)

    It is true that my colleagues and I have had the privlege to work closely with the Indian Customs office in relation to enforcement of intellectual property at the borders. We have have been extensively practicing in customs enforcement & conducting capacity building training sessions on IPR laws with the customs officials of India across various land, sea and air ports in the country. India being a signatory to the TRIPS Agreement has an obligation to enforce Intellectual Property Rights at the Territorial Borders. In compliance with the said obligation, India came out with IPR Rules for Customs Enforcement in 2007 after which we were one of the first law firms to register our clients’ Intellectual Property Rights with the Indian Customs to facilitate enforcement. IPR enforcement is an integral part of International Trade Law as it helps in ensuring ‘fair trade’ which is one of the founding principles of the World Trade Organization (WTO) and one of the bed-rock principles guiding International Trade. This it ensures by filtering out counterfeit, sub-standard, spurious and harmful products at the territorial borders thus ensuring that legitimate commerce is promoted and countries are not dumped with counterfeit products which more than anything else, affect a country’s economy by lowering its duty collection at the borders and the investment environment as a whole.

     

    How significant have WTO negotiations and the TRIPS Agreement been in protecting and enforcing trans-boundary intellectual property rights? Has this interest been balanced with social and distributive justice that is significantly important to developing countries?

    I believe WTO negotiations and the TRIPS Agreement which brought about the origin of an obligation on member countries to enforce IP Rights at the territorial borders has been hugely significant in protecting trans-boundary IP Rights. Further, I believe that the enforcement of IP Rights at the borders has in fact resulted in greater social and distributive justice being served as the Indian consumers have been protected from spurious and counterfeit goods due to this enforcement regime and the Indian Government has also benefitted from prevention of loss of revenue resulting from tax evasion and lesser duties being paid by importers of counterfeit goods, which in my opinion is a boon for a developing economy like India.

     

    As a proponent of academia, do you feel that law schools produce socially relevant lawyers equipped to handle the real world practice of law?

    I feel this is an immensely relevant question and a topic which needs greater discussion across the industry and I am glad to answer this. Though I believe that law schools produce exciting talent in terms of the potential and energy that fresh law graduates possess, the real world practice does come down hard on everyone which is true not just for the legal industry but in any domain, profession or business. I believe law schools can consider increasing the preparedness they provide to youngsters on how to deal with and what to expect when they land in the real world practice of law, which can help fresh law graduates immensely. As far as imparting the correct information and skills is concerned, I believe law schools in today’s time are doing a great job, especially when you look at the practical exposure they provide in terms of a higher stress on internships, moot court competitions and other such activities.

     

    You are a member of several international IPR related organisations. What role do such organisations play in the development of IPR law? What role do you play in such organisations?

    I believe that the role played by international IPR related organizations in policy advocacy, development of debate and discussion on important facets of IPR practice and bringing the International community with its various stakeholders closer to each other cannot be expressed in a few words and the importance is huge, to say the least. The credit of the IPR practice today being a truly global practice goes to such organizations which have played an immense role over the years. I happen to be part of such International Organizations for over 3 decades now and share the honour of being one of the first few membership holders from India.

    It has been an honour for me over the years to be a part of and lead various high-level policy advocacy initiatives undertaken by such international organizations in the sphere of proposing policy/legislation change to governments of member countries as far as their IPR Laws and Enforcement Mechanisms are concerned.

     

    What are the skills that one needs to develop to become an effective litigator and how can students develop such skills?

    Command over the language, confidence to express/speak, presence of mind, ability to hustle and strong preparation of the case are the five skills which if mastered, in my opinion, are enough to become a great litigator.

    A litigating lawyer, apart from concentrating on pleading/arguments in the courts also has to set his office in order, ensure smooth client correspondence, case preparation and follow-up which means that any litigating lawyer has to have the ability to hustle and manage his time in a manner such that he is able to make the most of the time he has in a day.

    Presence of mind, amongst other things, involves reading the mind of the Judge and foreseeing/predicting through observation and convention as to what aspects of a case is a particular Judge more interested in on a general basis and preparing a strong case on such points accordingly.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? In this respect, how has your family legacy impacted your success as a lawyer?

    Though there are definite advantages of having a family legacy in the same profession, there are various challenges one faces in taking over the reigns of an entire law firm. Apart from focusing on my legal practice and research, I had the added responsibility of management of the entire firm and the human resources at my hand at a very young age. I faced the task of dividing my day meticulously and managing my time between focusing on my personal law research and litigation with managing the affairs of the entire firm and focusing on its growth.

    Apart from this, another obvious challenge which I believe everyone faces is keeping up with stiff competition. Though this is a common challenge faced by all, it is a challenge nonetheless, and one which keeps you from getting comfortable with your success and pushing you to strive to improve every day.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    I believe the time available on one’s hand when one is in college is highly valuable in terms of the information and knowledge one can gather and accumulate from different fields of law and the research one can do. I strongly believe that sincere research done on any point of law during law school definitely helps one later in the profession regardless of whether or not he/she remembers the entire research conclusion after so many years. What it does provide is a sense of confidence and familiarity with a point of law researched on albeit years ago which makes it easier for one to grasp and understand affairs during the practice years when the time available on one’s hand to spend on research is lesser and expectations with speed are greater. Therefore my advice to college students would be to put this time to the best possible use while of course experiencing the fun aspects of college life, which is also very important.

     

  • Vikram Koppikar, Senior Legal Manager, TCS, on being In-House Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Vikram Koppikar, Senior Legal Manager, TCS, on being In-House Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Vikram graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, in 2000. He currently works with TCS and handles India and the MEA regions. He was engaged in the setting up of the first all women BPO in Saudi Arabia, which was the first of its kind. This involved interactions with the Labour Board as well as the Saudi Client. He has also been responsible SPOC for the takeover of an erstwhile Government IT Company – CMC limited, by TCS.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His experience in IP Law
    • His role as In-House Counsel
    • Working for Marico, McDonald’s, Wadia conglomerate, and M/s. Jehnagir Gulabbhai, Bilimoria and Daruwalla

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? 

    I would probably introduce myself, as the “Accidental Attorney”. I joined law college only because my friends at that time were joining the same. It was only upon attending law school, through the various lectures that I attended I realised, that I had made the right choice!

     

    How was your experience at law school? 

    I joined Government Law College (Mumbai), and did take part in the odd moot court competition. Through GLC’s recruitment process, I interned with and later joined, the law firm of M/s. Jehangir Gulabbhai, Billimoria and Daruwalla, one of India’s oldest law Intellectual Property (IP) specific law firm. The sheet variety of IP work, kept my interest going, even during my studies.

    You worked with a senior partner at a law firm on IP related matters. Can you describe the nature of the work you did? 

    I worked with the late Prof. Tehemtan Daruwalla, a true giant in the field of IP matters. He insisted that we always get our hands “dirty” in each matter, and ours was the only firm carrying out a manual (physical files) in the trademark registry (when it was allowed) to ensure accuracy of our opinions. In this tenure, Trademark search, opposition, Copyright oppositions (both at a registry and high court level) and patent drafting were all opportunities that I devoured with glee. A copyright case involving Mira Nair’s film Monsoon Wedding was a memorable case that I remember working upon.

     

    How has the advent of technology impacted the field of IPR law? 

    As Spiderman’s quote says “with great power comes great responsibility”, with strides in technology have arisen ways to counterfeit/ infringe such tech and consequently legislation which is struggling to keep up. For each “Paywall” Netflix subscription comes a “Bit-torrent” where you download the leaked “Game Of Thrones” episode. Of late, tech such as 3-D printing has also made counterfeiting that much easier. IP law, its relevance and furthermore understanding (I’ll touch upon that in my next answer) have never been more important.

    How did you secure a position with Marico? 

    I joined Marico, keen to try an in-house role. My work involved working with their R&D team, in the filing of trademarks, and assisting with drafting, search and opposition of patents. Most frequent were my anti-counterfeiting actions involving pan-India travel to ensure search and seizure of infringers of Marico’s intellectual property. I would stress here that both the knowledge of IP laws as well as the intent to act upon IP violations was markedly lower in those times, amongst police authorities than it is today and as mentioned in my previous answer, the proliferation of social media, technology has led to a greater cognizance of such offences in small town India.

     

     

    You have also worked with McDonalds India. How did this appointment happen? 

    I joined McDonald’s to be part of this global brand. Management’s mandate to open restaurants at a hectic pace led to exposure with business agreements, property laws, labour matters, taxes and of course litigation. It was interesting to fend various customer complaints seeking damages in lieu of rude behaviour by staff, or another filed by a parent whose daughter had received a Mickey Mouse with an Indian Flag with her “Happy Meal” thereby hurting his national sentiment! Was this a fall-out of the infamous Stella Liebeck case? I can only guess!

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LLM while you had a successful legal career? 

    Having had my brush with international legislation, dealing with an American parent corporation (McDonald’s), I decided to pursue my LLM in International, Commercial Law from the University of Durham (UK). I chose the UK, as common law as is practised in the UK serves as precedent for the Indian legal system. I further chose Durham, as this particular course had the right mix of international topics for an In-House career (in India). I would always recommend working for a few years before one opts for an LLM. This is because one’s previous (or future) career path should be supplemented by the LLM content that one chooses. Secondly, previous work experience will help you “value add” to the interactive class sessions, and examinations

     

    What are your views on the importance of higher education? 

    In my capacity as In-House Counsel of some years, I can vouch that each Indian corporate today, has some overseas business or funding. The importance of international commercial legislation, especially that of the EU, US and even China and Africa is crucial to have knowledge of. My advice to readers, is to first have a firm footing in the legal “stream” of their choice (IP, Tax etc.) and then take this footing further into the “ocean” that is international studies, to provide further impetus .

     

    How did you secure a position with the Wadia conglomerate? 

    I secured a position with the Wadia Group, through a common friend with Mr. Burjor Nariman, who was the then Head of Legal for the Wadia Group. The choice to continue In-House was a conscious one, as I by then realised the unique advantage that an In-House counsel holds in the management of a company (I will elaborate this in a subsequent answer).  The Wadia Group has some renowned brands such as Britannia Industries, Go-Air and Bombay Realty and the role offered a chance to work across these industries with a focus on litigation, customer complaints and property re-development contracts.

     

    What caused the shift to Capgemini India? 

    My experience with the Wadia Group focussed primarily on litigation and subsequently, was limited by the inputs I could offer to the senior counsels handling such high stakes litigation. When the Capgemini role of sole counsel came along, I grabbed it eagerly. My tenure saw Capgemini India (CGI) commence its “India Business” operations, which then extended into the Middle East leading to a plethora of business contracts. CGI then took over Ernst and Young’s India consulting division, which brought opened a floodgate of legacy litigation. My challenges as In-House Counsel were two –fold given the sheer volume and variety of work, and that I had previously never been attuned to the “IT Industry”. I can honestly say that this was the hardest time in my career and the lessons that I have learned in this period have helped me to this day.

     

    How did your appointment at TCS happen? 

    I was recommended to TCS by a previous senior, Mr. Debabrata Dutt. I currently am responsible for the Middle East and Africa geographies at TCS and handle services, licensing and BPO related contracts within these geographies. I was in charge of the take-over of CMC Ltd. an erstwhile Government owned IT Company by TCS. My crowning glory (so far) has been my role in aiding the set-up of the first All Women BPO services unit for a client in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia by TCS. I cite this example because, unlike other business transactions, this one was the first of its kind, and there was no template or precedent for the same. I was initially geared towards ensuring contract closure (as is the case with most In-House counsels). I realised that there were many “pitfalls” in ensuring successful project completion from issues including security (requiring clearance of the Burkha clad Saudi women, archiving video footage) and compliance (the Saudi personnel refused to handle transactions arising from countries such as Israel). Through my interactions with the Saudi Labour Board, I was able to highlight these challenges and obtain concessions/clarifications. In conclusion, not only did I aid the smooth roll-out of this prestigious project, but also a template was put in place, when a similar request came along from another Saudi Client. In closing, I would like to highlight that this set-up has since been visited by our Prime Minister Mr. Narendra Modi and the US First Lady Melania Trump, during President’s Trump’s visit to Saudi Arabia.

     

    What are the skills and qualities required to succeed as an in house counsel? 

    In the movie The Godfather, Robert Duvall plays Tommy Hagen, the counsel of the Corleone family, who is entrusted with some very unusual requests which he carries out with great patience and diligence. While a real life In House counsel may not get such unusual requests, he nevertheless has to be patient, diligent and protect business interests above all. Indian conglomerates today have stepped overseas and/or entered into diverse business operations and an In-House Counsel has to keep him/herself abreast with legislation both current and anticipated that may arise due to such venture. I remember Mr. Bharat Vasani (ex Legal Head; Tata Sons) mentioning how he underwent a technical training program to understand the DTH business at the time, the TATA group was entering the same (TATA Sky). On a personal level, during my McDonald’s tenure, I spent a week working hands on in a McDonald’s restaurant (serving fries, burgers) to understand the daily routine of the store and developing empathy to the store employee!

     

    In your experience, how is working in house different from working in a law office?

    An In-House counsel, unlike a law firm lawyer, has two masters, the Law and his CEO! This is because; an In-House counsel is required to be attuned to overall business interests and on some occasions, the whims of the management; from commencing litigation against an overnight friend turned rival or even developing a taste for your CEO’s favourite brand of scotch!

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Firstly, enjoy this time! The friends that you will make, will last you a lifetime. Secondly, be open to learning from various streams of law before circumstance requires you to specialise. Lastly, be always aware of trends not only in legislation, but the industry that you cater to. Legal services have changed as much as other industries, and as Richard Susskind predicts, it is going to change further yet!

  • M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath graduated in law from Pune University, batch of 2001. Bharath is a Senior Partner at Anand and Anand, India leads the Chennai City Office practice since June 2009. His practice includes Intellectual Property litigation before Indian High Courts, opposition, cancellation and other related proceedings before the Trademark Office, Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB), Copyright Board and Geographical Indications Office. He has been the lead counsel in numerous appeals, rectification and original proceedings before the High Courts of New Delhi, Chennai and IPAB with several reported decisions to his credentials.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His time at law school
    • His role at Anand and Anand
    • His experience in IPR

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an intellectual property lawyer and a Senior Partner in Anand and Anand based in Chennai.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    The days in law school (in Pune) gave me a hands on experience and exposure to diversity in culture, inclusiveness, collaboration and leadership. For want of hostels, we had to fend for ourselves including arranging for accommodation (which were in the 1990’s either homestays or apartments shared by at least eight to ten individuals), food (either by hiring a common cook or eat out from dhabas) transport and working on budgets. The absence of a structured placement cell compelled us to be innovative to raise monies, collate resumes of those who were interested, design and print a brochure, visit firms across the country to brand the institution and seek placements of the students as well.  Spearheading this initiative helped me gain operational skills but also with much needed exposure to the legal market and understanding of the differences in expectations and work cultures in cities such Bombay, Delhi, Madras, Calcutta and Bangalore as they were known back then.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    While grades are important they are definitely not critical. Most lawyers and firms seek law graduates who are committed, hardworking and above all uncompromising on integrity while grades as GPA’s are incidental.  I sincerely hope that students aspiring for a legal career do not seek out only for chances of landing jobs in top firms, as any firm one joins or sets up may soon be one.

     

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days?

    As a law student, Jurisprudence and Procedure Codes were quite appealing to me. While these subjects were not decisive in my career choice, they are  indeed the Grund Norm for daily practice.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    Personally speaking, there can never be just one mentor for an individual for it is likely to take away one’s individuality. I have had many individuals who have inspired me over the years including my father Mr. Subramanian, my late grand uncle Mr. Raghavan, both lawyers and my grandfather Ananthasubramanian who sowed the seeds of grit, independence, integrity, contentment, honesty; my wife Kavita who brought out the extrovert in me; Mr. Anand our Managing partner who continues to share his “Never say die” and “Never say never” attitudes, client handling abilities and vast wealth of IP knowledge; a dear friend and colleague Shamnad Basheer for getting me on board the IP world through Anand and Anand and inspiring many including me to care and share with initiatives such as IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access). In fact I find inspirations even from interns and colleagues who bring new ideas and ideologies to the working table.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    It is important that as a student, one identifies their favourite subject and aspirational senior / firm / organisation early on to seek and undertake an internship. This helps both the student and the employer know each other on many levels. I was lucky to undertake an internship in Anand and Anand in the penultimate summer of my law degree. The month long program led to a pre-placement offer and next sixteen wonderful years here.

     

    How did you develop this keen interest in Intellectual Property Rights Law?

    The zeal to learn new subject and remain a multi disciplinarian drew me towards intellectual property laws. The profession of IP attorney is possibly the only one which touches upon varied subjects of law, arts, science and commerce and in some rare cases all at once. The graduation in commerce prior to law helped me blend in easier.

     

    What kind of activities did you undertake in law school that helped you nurture this interest in IPR law?

    It was the internship at Anand and Anand which gave me an insight into the world of IPR which am still discovering and exploring after sixteen years. Back in the day we hardly had exciting activities on campus unlike now to nurture interests in IPR.

     

    Would attending IPR conferences hold any CV value, or would you recommend them anyway for their academic value?

    It is easy to get lost in the host of conferences, which are being organised on IPR related subjects. Of late there are so many, that even practitioners find it difficult to pick the right one or to let go. It is best to seek guidance from seasoned practitioners on which ones are relevant to attend as a student or young practitioner. In any case, while attendance at these conferences may be of academic value it would not have much impact on CV!

     

    Please give our readers some insights on the leading Indian firms dealing in IPR law, and your recommendations for where and how to secure internships.

    There are quite a number of top quality IPR law firms in India currently, with most based in the cities of New Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Bangalore. It would be inappropriate to name only some.

    While most of these firms over the years have gained reputation on one or few verticals within the IPR regime, say trademarks or patents drafting or prosecution or IP Enforcement, there are only a few which are quite interestingly known as “Full service IP firm” excelling in all forms of IP and all forms of prosecution and enforcement. Choosing a firm to intern with is critical and ought not to be done for the sake of merely adding on to resume. Depending on one’s leaning and flair for a subject, firms have to be identified and applications for internship are to be sent in early on.

    In the recent past I increasingly notice students sending requests for being connected on social media such as Linked In and immediately follow up with requests for internship. Such tools are not only easier for students to better understand the organisation and the individual with whom they seek internship but also build a rapport even prior to the internship program.

    Despite all these initiatives, one needs to be lucky, and being lucky according to me is meeting of Preparedness and Opportunity. A person would not be lucky if despite being having an opportunity is not prepared to take it further ahead.

     

    Tell us about your work experience at Anand & Anand where you currently are a Senior Partner.

    Starting as an intern in 2000, last year I was invited to be a part of our firm’s Council of Senior partners. Early on as a trademarks attorney, I assisted in setting up the firm’s practice before the IP Appeal Board. After several appearances before the Trademark office and Appeal Board, I turned to be a litigator as well. Ever since moving to Chennai in 2009, the city office practice has blossomed well with a current strength of over fifteen members.

     

    What do leading firms that specialise in IPR such as Anand & Anand look for in prospective candidates for internships, retainerships or recruitment?

    While the love and flair for the subject is a given requisite, we look for candidates who innately put clients’ interests above all and work with high commitment, vigour, and ownership without compromise on integrity. As internship programs help us identify prospects, it is easy to differentiate those who come in only for adding claims on their CV and those who have the IP fire in the belly and eagerness to join us.

     

    Do you believe in the conception that there is manifest reluctance among law graduates to take up IPR law as there is a scarcity of job opportunities in this area of practice?

    Quite the contrary! With the boom in innovation, manufacturing and consumption in India, the need for IP attorney has gained significant importance and their need is sure to increase in the times to come. The IP field and as an industry has been steadily growing if not exploding in India recently. While there are quite a few IPR boutique firms which have blossomed recently, the Indian and multi-national corporations have also been busy setting up in house IP cells and departments, resulting in need for many IP hands at work.

     

    Do you feel that there are shortcomings in Indian IPR law that make the practice itself difficult? 

    Every country legislates laws suitable to its own historic, social, economic background each of which undergo change with passage of time. Indian IPR Laws are no different and are quite unique to the land. Practice of these laws and succeeding in it would directly depend on one’s ability to identify practical solutions to clients’ problems within the limits of these laws. There are no short-comings in either the Indian IPR laws or their practice. Innovation is key especially in practice of IPR law. We at Anand and Anand take pride in always staying ahead of the curve to come out innovative solutions to clients. For example one of the largest brewing companies was facing severe waste of resources, as they were one of the few players in the industry to introduce fresh bottles into the commercial stream. As beer bottles are a commodity which are recycled, other players were reaping the benefit of sourcing such bottles from recyclers without having to invest in fresh ones. A simple solution suggested by us of introducing distinctive bottle designs with the brand names embossed on it gave a two layered protection both under designs and trademarks, saving large sums of monies to the client.

     

    Is it necessary to have a background in General Sciences in order to pursue IPR studies?

    Not at all, though having a science background is indeed a great advantage. Science and Commerce are the Yin and Yang of IP. It is a rarity to find those who understand both the streams well but it is in the intersection of these two subjects where the hearts of IP and its practice reside.

     

    What moots would you recommend for an IPR law enthusiast to further their interest and what journals would you recommend for someone who’s hoping to get their work published?

    India’s first and most prestigious moot court competition on IPR is Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot Court, which has had fifteen editions. It is considered the epitome of IPR moots and is a must attend to get a flavour of India’s best competitors mooting on the best IPR problems before the best judges, who are India’s leading IP practitioners and sitting judges of Indian Courts. More information on this can be found at http://ipmoot.org. I would encourage students to publish their work firstly in their own college journals and thereafter reach out to other prominent journals such as PTC (Patent and Trademarks Cases) MIPR (Manupatra IP Reports) which encourage and receive submissions from laws students and scholars. Spicy IP, the popular IP Blog founded by Shamnad also encourages students to be part of their eco system and community to present views and publish works as well.

    What general advice would you give our readers who aspire to stay at the top of their IP game?

    An IP lawyer advising clients on a variety of IP subjects has to necessarily understand their client’s business and commercial standing for each of the subject matters. While standing in their client’s shoes an IP attorney needs to have a perspective of subjects including accounting, statistics, finance, marketing, and advertising. Even if one is not a commerce or a science student there is a much needed foundation for an IP attorney to understand the panorama of how a business is run. To stay ahead of the curve think like a lawyer, science student, commerce student all at once while acting like a business woman / man!

  • Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla graduated from Government Law College in 1972. He founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in April 1982. He oversees all the activities relating to the firm, and also sits as an International Arbitrator. He is the Senior Partner of Zaiwalla & Co Solicitors which has been in the City of London for the past 35 years. His firm successfully acted for the Iranian private bank, Bank Mellat, both before the Supreme Court and the EU Court challenging the listing of bank under Iran Nuclear Sanctions. As a consequence of his firm’s success, Bank Mellat today have a claim of USD 4 billion before the English Court in respect of damages for losses caused because of unlawful listing. His firm were also the first firm which successfully challenged in the EU Court the listing of Iranian companies by EU Council. Zaiwalla & Co have acted for several Iranian companies including Bank Tejarat and Petropars.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His illustrious career
    • Setting up practice in the UK
    • His experience with high profile cases

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in London which is the first English Solicitors firm in the one square mile commercial and financial district in the city of London started by a solicitor born outside Europe. We have been in existence for 36 years and at our 30th anniversary reception in November 2012, the Chief Guest, Rt. Hon. Sir Dominic Grieves MP in his speech said that what my firm had achieved in the development of English law will be remembered even after 100 years. There are today 104 reported judgments in the English law reports where my firm had acted for one of the parties. A judgment is only reported in the law reports if it affects the development of law. We are today one of the leading firms in the field of International Arbitration.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a young student in St. Xavier’s High School, Bombay, my career ambition was to join politics and become the Prime Minister of India so that I could change India and make it great again. My father was a solicitor who had qualified in London in 1925. He was the youngest member of his family and as the youngest member of my family, I was encouraged to qualify as a solicitor in London.

     

    What got you interested in the field of International Arbitration? 

    I did my Solicitors training in an English Solicitors firm called Stocken & Co. who were maritime lawyers and specialised in maritime arbitrations. This gave me the first exposure to international maritime Arbitrations. In those years a Solicitors training was not on a structured basis like it is now and one would start as an assistant to a Senior Solicitor, at first carrying his bags and making cups of tea for him and then later being trained on the job.

     

    Can you briefly describe your current role as an Arbitrator and an Advisor to clients involved in international arbitrations?

    As the world got smaller, international trade between businessmen from various countries grew. International businessmen want a neutral country to settle their disputes and would therefore opt for Arbitration in a neutral venue with a respectable legal infrastructure. This would normally be London where Arbitration in its modern form, was given birth to, over 300 years ago. In the City of London all the fixtures for ocean going vessels to carry cargo were agreed at the Baltic Exchange. The Baltic Exchange used to be the centre of all shipping chartering contracts all over the world. Whenever a dispute arose as to what was agreed between the brokers, the owners and the charterers, they would at the end of the day ask a senior respectable broker to determine the dispute over a cup of tea.

    This was the beginning of international Arbitration in London. International Arbitration has now grown in a sophisticated fashion and it is also a serious foreign exchange earner for the country where the seat of the Arbitration is located. This is because the seat has no other connection to the parties in the Arbitration who have chosen the seat of the Arbitration but the parties have to instruct for example, English Solicitors for London Arbitrations and also spend on experts, Barristers, hotels and other expenses. As a firm of Solicitors we have recently been consulted by the Russian Government in respect of a potential challenge to USD 50 billion Arbitration award against Russia by the International Arbitration Court in The Hague.

    As an Arbitrator, I recently sat for two weeks in Tel Aviv, Israel, as a Sole Arbitrator to decide a multi-million dollar dispute. I have also sat as an Arbitrator in Bombay with Sir Anthony Evans and Harish Salve to decide an international Arbitration dispute concerning a power plant in South India.

     

    International Arbitration often involves a complex interplay of public and private international law. Can you elaborate on this aspect for our readers?

    This is correct because in international Arbitrations there can be three countries which can play a part. For example, in a contract between say an Indian party and a United States party where the contract provides for disputes to be settled in London, Indian law, US law and English law could all have a part to play. Usually, if the contract provides for Arbitration in a neutral venue as the seat of the Arbitration, say London, then there is a presumption that the parties intend English law to apply to the contract. There was a case which I handled earlier for ISRO of India in respect of an Arbitration claim brought by McDonnell Douglas concerning Satellite inset 1B. The Arbitration provided for London as a seat of Arbitration but with the Indian Arbitration Act to apply. The English Court held that by this term, only the procedural aspect would apply to the Arbitration but on the main issues English law would apply. See Union of India v. McDonnell Douglas Corporation [1993] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 48 In another shipping case, the contract was governed by English law with the seat of Arbitration being London, but the English High Court held that in construing its term in the contract, as the performance of the term was to be India, Indian law would apply. This was the case of a vessel called “Nestor” which is reported at [1987] 2 Lloyds Rep. 649. In both of these cases my firm had acted for the Indian parties.

     

    What are your views on the necessity of higher education? 

    Education, including higher education, instructs a student but life experiences educate a student. Higher education is of course of utmost importance because it readily opens doors for good employment or starting ones practice. Higher education is a certificate of competence and knowledge. I have however found that many Oxford and Cambridge educated lawyers were no match for a lawyer with good instincts and wisdom. My advice to your readers would be to go for opportunities available to pursue higher education, it can only do good.

     

    What was your first job out of law school?

    My first job out of law school was an evening job with the Hinduja brothers at their company Sangam Ltd. I had met GP and SP Hinduja when I was still training at Stocken & Co. and they asked me to join their employment. They had just moved from Tehran to London. I said I did not want to take a job and I wanted to have my own practice after I was enrolled as a Solicitor. So the Hinduja brothers offered me an evening job from 6:30pm – 9:30pm. I had an arrangement with Stocken & Co that if I travel for them overseas, Stocken & Co would bill the Hinduja brothers. This was a great opportunity for me because in one year I travelled 42 times to Geneva with the Hinduja brothers and their right hand Mr. Golikeri. I was part of the team which negotiated contract with top lawyers on the other side and although I was not qualified I acted as Hinduja brothers’ unqualified legal adviser, interpreter and negotiator.

    When I started on my own I was fortunate to be appointed as the Indian High Commission in London’s Solicitor. At that time the High Commissioner was Dr. Syed Mohammed who was himself an ex-English Barrister and he had been the Advocate General of Kerala and Minister of State for Law and Justice in Indira Gandhi’s Government. He was thrilled to see a young Parsee Indian starting a law firm in the City of London keeping his Indian surname.

     

    What motivated you to start Zaiwalla and Co. Solicitors?

    When I was working at Stockens I became friendly with Cedric Barclay who was an eminent and popular maritime Arbitrator. I got to know him and a few months before I was enrolled as a Solicitor, he invited me for a cup of tea at his office. In the course of our conversation over tea, he strongly advised me not to join the big English Solicitors firms. He said, “You are good and well liked, but if you join a large English maritime firm, the Senior Partner will take you for lunch once a year and say, “Good job, old boy”, but you will go no higher.” So he advised me strongly to start on my own. True to his word, when I started Zaiwalla & Co., he personally took me to the offices of big ship owners to introduce me and recommend me to them. Very soon I had a reasonably large Greek ship owning clientele.

    Surprisingly, when I started I did not face any major hurdles with the white professional population. They were somewhat surprised to see a brown face but they were more than encouraging. Appearing before the English Commercial Court Judges was a very favourable experience. The Judges would make sure that I was comfortable and go out of their way to ensure that they had fully understood my client’s case. In a way, I found myself sometimes in a more advantageous situation then the white contemporaries in Court. In due course the word went around and the client base started to build and within five or six years I had 23 lawyers working in my firm and at that stage Zaiwalla & Co. was mainly an international Arbitration firm doing maritime Arbitrations and litigation which was mainly for Indian Government cases in the English Court.

     

    You have represented major clients including governments. How have you developed and maintained a client base?

    It is hard work to maintain a client base. An essential ingredient for this purpose is to keep in constant contact with the client. What a client expects from a lawyer is integrity, competence and speed. I made sure that I provided all three of these to our clients.

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to become a successful arbitrator? 

    (Sarosh has been appointed as an Arbitrator in a number of multi- million dollar disputes.)

    An Arbitrators task is very different from the task of a lawyer. I have always been a creative lawyer and I believe in the principle that “law is for justice and not justice for law”. My firm and I have built up a reputation of being creative on issues of law. As a lawyer I can put forward a creative proposition of law to fit the facts and it would be for the Judge or the Arbitrator to decide whether there was any value in such a proposition. However, as an Arbitrator it is for me to make sure that I get it right and live up to the trust which the parties had placed in me to give a correct decision. There are times when I am one of the three members of the Arbitration Tribunal. In that case usually the Chairman who is the third Arbitrator prepares the first draft of the Tribunals award. Many times I have sat as a Sole Arbitrator for multi-million dollar disputes and such cases require a lot of thinking in arriving at my decision which is not very easy. The most important quality to be an Arbitrator is integrity and commercial common sense. An Arbitrator is a Judge who is appointed by the private party whereas a Judge is appointed by the state. Recently, there was a case in the UK Supreme Court (Hashwani v Jivraj) which my firm had handled where the issue was whether an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties. The English Court of Appeal said yes an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties but the UK Supreme Court reversed their decision and held that an Arbitrator is not an employee and he perform the same function as a Judge.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the nature of maritime disputes and how they are unique?

    A substantial part of the international trade of goods and commodities takes place by transporting of those goods by ocean going vessels. In the course of the voyage, often goods get damaged because of dampness in the vessels hold or seepage of sea water in the hold. The other types of dispute which generally arises relates to charter party disputes which includes demurrage disputes, bill of lading disputes, General Average and collision at sea disputes. I have had the privilege of handling all of these types of disputes. India’s first success in the House of Lords in a commercial case concerned the vessel called La Pintada. In this case the charterer was the President of India and he paid demurrage some two years late. The owners of the vessel commenced Arbitration claiming interest on a three month compounded rate basis arguing that they had lost the use of money by the delayed payment. The Arbitrator made an award of compound interest in onus favour. The High Court sent the award back to the Arbitrator for reconsideration on the basis that the award sought to make charterer an involuntary banker. The Arbitrator once again confirmed the award which he had previously made. When Indian Government challenged the award once again in the Commercial Court, the Court referred it straight to the Supreme Court for decision. The House of Lords unanimously decided in Indian Government’s favour. This was a test case because in those years of foreign exchange crisis, Indian Government always paid freight and demurrage late and if India had lost in the House of Lords, they would have had to have paid over £5 million in compound interest because other ship owners would then be claiming compound interest for late payment. Incidentally in this case, the Barrister my firm had instructed was Tony Blair who later on went on to become the Prime Minister of the UK. Please see 1983 1 Lloyds page 39.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the Tibet dispute as well as the efforts being undertaken to resolve it? 

    (Sarosh was appointed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to mediate with the Chinese government in order to resolve the Tibet dispute.)

    I am a qualified CEDR (Centre for International Dispute Resolution) Mediator. For many years my firm acted for PRC Government in their international Arbitration cases. My firm had an office in Beijing for twelve years. We represented CNPC, CPECC, CPTDC and Min Metals in five major international Arbitrations. Chinese Embassy had heard about my firms successes for Indian Government and the then Chinese Ambassador in 1991 had a meeting with me and asked me to assist China to set up in China a legal system which could work internationally. The Embassy sponsored a trip for me to visit Beijing in December 1991. In 1994, I facilitated a second channel dialogue between 10 Downing Street and the central committee of Chinese communist party on misunderstanding which had arisen concerning the agreement to hand over Hong Kong to China. This was a successful dialogue. Thereafter, my relations with Chinese Government became very friendly and my firm got a lot of legal work from Chinese state corporations.

    A few years later, Mrs. Takla, the representative of Dalai Lama contacted me.  She told me that Dalai Lama was going to visit Glasgow very soon and he would like to meet me. Accordingly, a private meeting was arranged for me in Glasgow with Dalai Lama. I was told by Mrs Takla that Dalai Lama would like me to facilitate a second channel dialogue with China to resolve the dispute between him and China relating to Tibet as he would like to go back to his home, Tibet.

    I informed the Chinese Ambassador about the Dalai Lama’s request for a meeting and before meeting Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador in London. The Ambassador put forward China’s position and told me that one of the things which concerned China was that Dalai Lama was writing forwards to books written where the author claimed that half of China was Tibet. It was a great pleasure and honour to meet Dalai Lama on a one to one basis. I found him to be very frank and honest. He told me that his intelligence had told him that I was one non-Chinese person in the West whom the PRC Government had complete trust and confidence. He sought my help for a second channel dialogue to resolve the Tibet issue.  I told him that China was concerned about his writing forwards to books which claimed half of China was Tibet. Dalai Lama’s response was that he had no option but to do this because his Tibetan people had lived in those parts of China for centuries and it was historically part of Tibet. In a moving gesture, Dalai Lama took my hand and put it on his heart and said, “I trust you”.

    After my meeting with Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador and told him that it would be in China’s interest to resolve the issue with Dalai Lama as he was no longer claiming independence for Tibet. Furthermore , I was aware of the communist Chinas policy towards religion which was that religion was now being permitted provided it was not controlled from outside China. In Dalai Lama’s case, he would be involved in religion from Lahasa, the capital of Tibet which was now part of China. The Ambassador told me that he would communicate his discussion with me to China. A further meeting was arranged between me and the Chinese representative and I was told that the Dalai Lama’s brother had been invited to China for discussion and there was no need for a second channel to take place through me.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the process of framing arguments and the experience of arguing before the EU court?

    (Sarosh’s was the first firm to successfully challenge the listing of Iranian companies under Iranian Nuclear Sanctions before the EU court.)

    This is correct. Bank Mellat which was Iran’s largest private bank, had challenged the sanctions in the High Court and had lost. Thereafter, Bank Mellat appealed and the Court dismissed the appeal. Bank Mellat’s former Solicitors, Stephenson Harwood, had told Bank Mellat that there was little prospect of Bank Mellat getting leave to appeal from the Supreme Court. I was one of the Solicitors Bank Mellat met with a view to deciding who to instruct for their attempt to appeal to the Supreme Court. I had earlier acted in a major Arbitration for National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) and had turned around what they had been advised was a hopeless defence in an Arbitration case and was successful for NIOC. So the legal director of NIOC had mentioned my name to Bank Mellat and recommended my firm. The rest is history, we were successful before nine out of the total twelve Judges of the UK Supreme Court. The Supreme Court held that the UK Government had acted unlawfully and irrationally to list Bank Mellat in the list of companies supporting Iran’s nuclear proliferation and to whom the sanctions would apply.

    The Supreme Court referred the matter to the High Court to calculate damages and Bank Mellat is currently pursuing a claim of USD 4 billion for damages in the UK Court for wrongful listing of Bank Mellat on the nuclear sanctions list. It was also the first time that the UK Supreme Court went into a closed, secret hearing on grounds of national security. The trial of this claim is fixed by the English Court for October 2018.

     

    You are a member of all major arbitration institutions. What is your preferred forum? 

    My preferred forum for international Arbitration is either London Court for International Arbitration (LCIA) or International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce, Paris (ICC). I was a member of the International Court of Arbitration for twelve years representing India. An equally efficient forum and possibly less expensive would be for parties to simply agree London as a seat of Arbitration as this would save the administrative costs of the institutions and the Arbitration would be under direct supervision of the English Court in case something goes wrong in the Arbitration.

     

    Do you think India has the potential to become a major arbitration hub? 

    Yes, India has great potential to become a major international Arbitration hub but India has a long way to go to achieve this goal. A small country like Singapore has within a few years built up a popular international Arbitration centre and there is no reason why India cannot do so. The international centres of Arbitrations are made by good reputation and law. Reputation is a question of perception. Arbitration in India today does not enjoy a good international reputation. There are rumours of corruption amongst the Arbitrators. I am sure this rumour is unlikely to be true but one must recognise that even one case of corruption poisons the reputation of the whole Arbitration culture in India. I have had many meetings with those who manage international Arbitration in India, including with Mr Arun Jaitley and at each of these meetings I have said that the risk of corruption in the international Arbitration in India cannot be eradicated by passing of law eradicated by self-regulation in the Arbitrators community and the legal profession. Another minus point for international Arbitration in India is the perceived monopoly appointment of retired Judges who then conduct the Arbitration as if it was Court proceedings with adjournments being granted for asking. The new Indian Arbitration Act has restricted Court intervention in the Arbitration process which is a good step forward for India.

     

    International Arbitration is considered a difficult field to break into. Can you describe your journey in becoming such an authority in this field? 

    This is correct. So far, the international Arbitrators community has been an elite circle where one supports the other with the consequence that a newcomer is not easily accepted unless he blends in by accepting to begin with a second class status. The selection of Arbitrator is an important task. He should be a person with good legal and commercial law experience. The task of a party appointed Arbitrator is not to favour his appointer but he has a duty to ensure that his appointer’s points are considered by the whole Tribunal at the time of making the decision. I have found that many times, Indian parties appoint retired Judges in the international Arbitration and they are indeed very clever but they are not able to communicate with the co-Arbitrators properly, who are normally from developed countries. Often, retired Indian Judges who are product of the British imperialist culture, have enormous egos about their status. Let me give one example.

    I was appointed by the Danish company Volund to be their nominated Arbitrator in the early 90’s. The Arbitration concerned construction of a power plant in Timarpur near Delhi whose fuel would be New Delhi waste. In other words, the power plant would be converting New Delhi waste into energy. The project was supported by Danish aid agency (DANIDA). After the power plant was constructed, it was found that New Delhi waste did not have sufficient calorific heat to be used as fuel for the power plant. India appointed Mr Pathak as their Arbitrator. He was a former Chief Justice of India and retired Judge of the international Court of Justice in The Hague. The third Arbitrator and the Chairman of the Tribunal was Lord McKenzie Stuart, a former Chief Justice of the European Court. He was appointed by the International Court of Arbitration.

    On the first day of the hearing I got a note passed to me by Chief Justice Pathak which said, “You have insulted me by sitting on the right of the Chairman, I am senior to you so I should be sitting on the right of the Chairman and you should be sitting on the left”. I immediately passed the note to the Chairman with a suggestion that he adjourns the hearing for five minutes so that I can change over. He sent the note back to me saying “stay where you are”. In England or in Europe in international Arbitrations it does not matter which side the Arbitrator sits. During the coffee break, Lord McKenzie Stuart told Chief Justice Pathak that it does not matter where the Arbitrator sits and he jokingly told Chief Justice Pathak, “Don’t be a fool”. The Chief Justice took offence to this and throughout the two weeks hearing he did not utter a word and did not speak with Lord McKenzie Stuart throughout the Arbitration reference thereafter.

    The way to break into the field of international Arbitration is to first attach with a law firm or an advocate who is already handling international Arbitrations and then attend international Arbitration conferences.

     

    Can you describe your work as a solicitor in England?

    A Solicitor in London prepares the case and instructs the Counsel to argue it before the Court. It is now also possible in commercial cases for Solicitors to appear in Court as Advocates, I have done so on many occasions. My firm and I are known for difficult cases where client comes to us after they have been told by the Magic Circle firms that their claim or case is very bad.

    Two examples of this are the international Arbitration award by International Arbitration Court in The Hague which made an award of USD 50 million against the Russian Federation in the Yukos shareholders claim. Russia came to me for an out of box approach for Russia challenging the award in the Dutch Court. Sometime before this, an Indian Government company PEC Limited had come to me and they had an award of USD 8 million against them. On the face of it they had no defence because they had participated in the Arbitration and also the appeal process of GAFTA Arbitration and had lost. I took the point that although English law applied in the contract, the contract was signed by the Director of PEC on behalf of PEC and whether he had authority to do so would be governed by Indian law. Under Indian law, for a Government contract there are rules and for a USD 25 million contract you require two Director’s signatures.

    PEC therefore through my firm argued that the Arbitration agreement was void because the contract was void. In the English Court on the question of Indian law we led the evidence of Mr. Soli Sorabjee, former Attorney General of India and the other side which was a Thailand company, Asia Golden Rise, led the evidence of Mr. Harish Salve. Both of these eminent jurists were cross examined in open Court and the Court preferred the evidence of Mr Sorabjee. This changed the prevalent law.

    The second example was the case of Indian Oil Corporation (IOC) v Coastal Bermuda where IOC had participated in the London Arbitration defending a huge claim of some USD 18 million. The Arbitrators decided against Indian Oil Corporation but one of the Arbitrators, Mr. Gordon Pollock QC, added a post-script to this decision suggesting that Indian Oil’s legal team was not competent and if the team had been competent, the result may well have been different. My firm did not act for IOC in the Arbitration but they came to me after all the big law firms and Queen’s Counsel had told IOC that they had no chance of challenging the award. My firm challenged the award on an innovative ground that the award could be enforced as a judgment of the English Court and for the English Court to enforce a judgment which was not based on the two legal analysis of the evidence would be against English public policy. The English Court accepted this and remitted the award back to the Arbitrators and in its judgment said, “Finality is good but justice is better”. Indian Oil Corporation v Coastal Bermuda [1990] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 407.

     

    Where do you stand on the “two hat” debate over whether arbitrators should also act as counsel? 

    There is really no problem. When I am appointed as an Arbitrator, if there is a conflict I will not accept appointment. International Arbitration is a field with many important debates currently going on, with many suggesting reforms such as Bilateral Arbitration Treaty (Gary Born), regulating the ethical conduct of counsels (Swiss Arbitration Association, London Court of International Arbitration).

     

    Could you discuss the aforementioned suggestions and your take on them or any such significant debates?

    The most important reform which is required is the need of diversity in the clique of international Arbitrators. The current international Arbitrators must be prepared to accept competent Arbitrators in the circle of international Arbitrations. Statistics show that the present international institutions generally favour appointing white Arbitrators from developed countries. This needs to change.

     

    How do you remain updated with all the new developments in the field of international arbitration and mediation?

    There are at present many press and internet mediums which keeps me informed on all the new developments in the field of international Arbitration and Mediation.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Always act with integrity and remember the legal profession is an honourable profession and honesty and fairness is the most important duty of a lawyer. The policy which I follow is that I can play with the law because the Judge is there to reject or accept my submissions on law but not under any circumstances play with the facts. If I find that the client has told me a lie in his instructions I would refuse to act for that client. I would not make up stories or allegations on behalf of a client simply to support the client’s case. This approach breads both character and increases credibility before Judges. The five mantras for law students, I would suggest, are:

    • Have a vision on where you want the business to go.
    • Have integrity and honest approach in the work you do.
    • Have courage to have an open mind and an out-of-box approach to progress the business.
    • Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes.
    • Forgive people for any wrongdoings against you, and leave it to the universe to deal with them.
  • Hemant Batra, Founder, Kaden Boriss Global, on working at AMSS and the UN, and his diverse experience

    Hemant Batra, Founder, Kaden Boriss Global, on working at AMSS and the UN, and his diverse experience

    Hemant Batra graduated in law from Panjab University, in 1991. He is a corporate, commercial, business and strategist lawyer. He is the founder and Chairman of Kaden Boriss Global, a legal and business strategist organization of global law firms and offices. Kaden Boriss was founded in 2003 by international and business laws specialist lawyers Hemant Batra and Preeti Batra. The intellectual property rights (IPR) in the trade mark and copyright of legal brand Kaden Boriss (KB) vests with Hemant Batra. As a Chairperson of Kaden Boriss, a Corporate & Commercial law firm, he is responsible for firm’s mentorship. His role in the law firm is to advise on strategy relating to any legal transaction or matter. He also steers cross-border & international legal transactions for clients. In the law firm he is also responsible for overseeing execution of selective legal consulting and services assignments for clients.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Founding his own organisation
    • Working with the United Nations
    • His passion for music

    What made you decide to pursue an LLB after obtaining a BA degree? 

    While pursuing a BA in Humanities, I started to eliminate the career path, which I was not inclined to embrace at all. In late 1980s, I saw everybody around me was interested in the professions of engineering, medicine or civil services. I eliminated the engineering and medicine fields because they appeared quite run-of-the-mill and unremarkable. Initially, civil services, especially Indian police services did attract and excite me. However, on closer analysis, I eliminated that option as well for a couple of reasons – one, I noticed that there was too much political interference in civil services; in fact, I found civil servants being at the mercy of politicians, all the time; secondly, I was not too impressed by the remunerative compensation of government employees. Hence, I decided on the legal profession. It had too many appealing features. I was an accomplished orator, it offered me an opportunity to showcase my oratory skills. I wanted to be a strategic counselor and successful entrepreneur. The legal field was the best option to be on my own. It offered independence and presented means of earning sufficient wealth through absolute lawful means. Above all, I wanted to be a proficient and acclaimed global lawyer. Thus, I chose legal field to be my career path.

    I had chosen public administration, economics and political science as my subjects in BA. These subjects are/were very close to the legal system and commandments of law. These subjects literally became a bridge between BA and LLB, for me.

    It is my strong belief that humanities and law subjects are the ideal combination, for a career in law; be it law practice or legal services.

     

    How was your experience in law school? Do you think law schools produce socially relevant lawyers?

    I did my LLB from the Chandigarh Law Faculty, in the campus of Punjab University. The campus was very modern in terms of building and infrastructure. It was a stand-alone dedicated campus. The size of class or batch was not more than 100–120 students, if I remember correctly. The faculty was very strong, comprising some brilliant professors and authors. Even Senior Lawyers used to visit us as visiting faculty. The student–teacher ratio was 7:1, which was quite impressive.  I had an outstanding experience as a law student. The fellow students were very friendly and teachers exceedingly helpful. I carry wonderful memories of those times. Yes, the law schools do offer great opportunities to become socially relevant lawyers by becoming part of community, pro-bono and human rights driven legal programmes. Even in my times of student life, we had these programmes. We were inculcated with the values of serving the community in part-time, compulsorily or whole-time, optionally. However, at the end these become more of self-made choices. Law schools can only show you the right path and values; they can’t hand-hold you.   

     

    Did you participate in any extracurricular activities such as moots, debates or undertake any internships in law school? 

    Yes, I did participate in the extracurricular activities. In fact, moots was a compulsory subject. I participated in moots in all three years. I also participated in the debates and declamation contests. Internships, in our days was meant only for the last semester i.e. sixth. This was compulsory. For other semesters, it was optional. I did use to visit the High Court as a law student to observe some key hearings. All these practical activities helped me enormously in my becoming an accomplished lawyer. In order to become a skilled lawyer, one should have multiple traits and qualities – analytical approach, patience, hardworking, articulate, clear and effective oration, humility and so on. The extracurricular activities contribute overwhelmingly in bringing out the best in you. I am of the robust view that in the legal profession practical training and experience surpasses theoretical part. Therefore, the extracurricular activities and practical training should not only be made mandatory but must be made part of day to day curriculum.        

     

    What are your areas of interest in the legal field? 

    I graduated and got enrolled as a lawyer in 1991. At that time the only area of law practice was litigation. In litigation, most lawyers were general practitioners. Primarily, litigation involved civil, criminal and revenue matters. I actually wanted become an arguing counsel but destiny had something else stored for me. I joined Amarchand Mangaldas & Hiralal Shroff & Co., Solicitors in 1991 as an Associate. I was working alongside Shardul and Pallavi Shroff, who were the Managing Partners of the law firm. I got exceptional opportunities as a young fresher. I do not think anyone could get such opportunities in today’s times. In 1991, each day, I was given legal briefs to argue in the Delhi High Court (and sometimes even Supreme Court and Company Law Board). They trusted my capabilities and strengths. Between 1991 and 1994, I argued innumerable cases in several courts, tribunals and forums. However, the process of economic liberalization issued in 1991 by the Indian Government started to take shape in 1994. A new field and area of practise started to emerge for law practitioners. This got to be known as non-litigation or FDI law practise. It became a fashion statement to brand yourself as a corporate and commercial lawyer. I ventured into this area of practise. I became a connoisseur of cross-border investments related documentation and regulatory work. I got tremendous opportunities to handle complicated M&A and JV transactions. I started to enjoy the globetrotting attached with this kind of law practise. From a litigation lawyer, I transitioned into a business lawyer. I walked away from courts, where I always wanted to be. I have no regrets because I thoroughly enjoyed then and even now the challenges and luxuries of being a corporate lawyer. My core areas of practise cover corporate and commercial matters, FDI, economic laws, mergers, acquisitions, cross border investments, joint ventures, corporate compliances, corporate governance, corporate social responsibility, commercial agreements, transactional documentation, private equity, regulatory work, agreements, anti-corruption, anti-bribery compliance and legal auditing.         

     

    How did you secure an appointment at AMSS? 

    At that time, AMSS was known as AMHS. I was waiting for my final semester results of LLB, I approached AMHS directly at New Delhi office. I religiously used to visit the AMHS law firm office to secure interview. I succeeded after a gap of one week to get an interview with Shardul Shroff. I had an interaction of about half hour with him. He was then a lawyer of about eleven to twelve years’ experience. He liked my answer to one of the questions, where I said that for me AMHS is a gurukul and you my guru to be.’ I told him categorically that AMHS was a training ground for me, hence, I didn’t expect any remuneration. I was recruited as a Trainee and then once, I got my degree and enrolment, I was designated as an Associate. At that time the recruitment was done personally by Shardul and Pallavi. The criteria was primarily instinctive and first impression coupled with honesty and smartness of the candidate. My experience was absolutely outstanding. Whatever heights in legal profession, I have attained, I owe it to Shardul and Pallavi. Right on day one, they pushed me in to the turbulent legal waters so that I could become a swimmer in the rapids. I gained experience of more than a decade in just four years. In four years, I was capable enough to give run for money to lawyers with experience of ten years plus.      

     

    What motivated you to found Kaden Boriss Global?

    When I was travelling globally and that too extensively in mid 1990s and onwards, I realized that I should have an international brand with which foreign clients could relate to easily. I thought of establishing a law firm and a network of international offices with an international name so that people associate with it an MNC and not a domestic institution.  Kaden Boriss is a combination of two expressions – ‘Kaden’ and ‘Boriss’. The ethnic origin of these expressions can predominantly be found in the Swedish Germanic and Slavic languages and also partially in the classical Arabic language. `Kaden’ means a Companion and Boriss means a Warrior. When this name was coined on 15th August, 2003 me with the assistance of my international financial lawyer wife Preeti W. Batra, the idea was two-fold – (1) the law firm had to become a global phenomenon with presence all across the world, hence name had to be truly international, which one and all could relate to regardless of origin, race, language or dialect; and (2) the law firm had to become an unconventional outfit with emphasis on progressive legal services and strategy. Hence, the formula was to become a `Companion’ to our clients with a `Warrior’ like instinct. In other words, in this tough world clients need a companion who is a warrior. I am the registered owner of the IPR in Kaden Boriss brand.

    Initially, Kaden Boriss ventured into a highly innovative domain by assuming role of a knowledge processing consulting and legal services company. It engaged in undertaking legal & para-legal consulting assignments for Multi-National clients seeking to contract out their in-house legal, para-legal and strategic advisory, regulatory and compliance work. Between 2003 – 2011, Kaden Boriss under my leadership undertook extensive projects in Americas, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Czech Republic, Dubai, England, Germany, Holland, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Kuwait, Italy, Maldives, Nepal, Philippines, Russia, South Korea, Sri Lanka and Thailand involving legal cross-border transactions, business acquisitions, mergers, takeover, private equity deals, commercial documentation, research on legal and para-legal issues, regulatory approvals, compliances, due-diligence, legal auditing and formulation of business strategies. Kaden Boriss operated from multiple satellite and project offices at that time. It comprised of team of Legal, IT, Software, Secretarial and Commercial professionals who are experts/specialists in undertaking high-end consulting projects of varied faculties.

    One of its divisions, also provided a cost and time saving solutions to the everyday challenges of making reports, presentations and other research-based documents like legal auditing, articles on general as well as technical issues and papers amongst others for business organizations, professionals and individuals. Its services represented a logical alternative for business organizations and individuals who didn’t want to waste their precious resources on such assignments but wanted to concentrate on their core area of activity. Kaden Boriss grew to become one-stop window for solutions to all legal and para-legal problems/issues.

    The only hurdle was that Indian clients initially thought that Kaden Boriss was a foreign law consulting firm like McKenzie or something, which it was not. The perception was that it was a consulting company and not a law firm. This was eventually overcome.

    The traits and fame of Kaden Boriss in executing legal and para-legal work for businesses and industry leaders all across the globe with utmost integrity, confidentiality, commitment, effort and efficiency started to spread far and wide.

    Hence, in 2009 Kaden Boriss formally adopted the Swiss Verein kind of structure. I and my wife Preeti W. Batra found this business model as an effective medium of offering Kaden Boriss as a single global brand with its member or group firms being able to maintain their independent status as separate legal entities as well as financially and administratively. The Kaden Boriss evolved as a commercially vibrant ‘goodwill’ service brand with ideal brand equity.

     

    You are, and have been in the past, the Vice President of SAARCLAW. Can you tell us about the role of this organisation and your job profile as its VP?

    South Asian Association For Regional Co-operation in Law, SAARCLAW, is an association of the legal communities of the eight SAARC countries comprising judges, lawyers, academicians, law teachers, public officers and a host of other law-related persons, duly registered with the SAARC Secretariat at Kathmandu and awarded the status of a Regional Apex Body Of SAARC. It owes its origin to the desire of the members of the legal community to establish an association within the SAARC region to disseminate information and to promote an understanding of the concerns and developments of the region.

    SAARCLAW was established in Colombo on 24th October 1991. I have been associated with SAARCLAW since its inception. I have been its Secretary General for three terms of two years each. Presently as Vice President, I represent India on the Executive Council. Office bearers enjoy quasi-diplomatic status. I have been instrumental in helping SAARCLAW establish a permanent Secretariat in Kathmandu. In my tenure as SG, I worked out several joint ventures between SAARCLAW and international institutions like UNDP, UNAIDS, IDLO, ADB etc. The Annual SAARCLAW Conferences have been acclaimed as affording an opportunity to its members for interaction, exchange of ideas and for forging a spirit of solidarity. It has been the convention since 1995 to hold a conference of the Chief Justices of the SAARC countries concurrently with the Annual SAARCLAW Conference. This feature has become institutionalized now and offers a forum for the exchange of thoughts and views of the Chief Justices of our countries.

    In its more than 25 years of existence, the members of SAARCLAW have persistently worked towards the achievement of its objectives of bringing together the legal communities within the region for closer co-operation, development of understanding, promotion of exchange of ideas and dissemination of information, and to use and develop law as a source and an instrument towards social change for development as well as for building co-operation among the peoples of the region.

     

    You have worked closely with the United Nations in several capacities. Can you tell us about the experience?

    First and foremost, any job with UN bodies requires a systematic approach. One is required to be passionate about certain areas of activities, which may be of concern to the relevant UN body. Before being eligible to undertake projects or assume positions with UN bodies, the readers interested in joining such bodies will have to execute some projects independently or with some non-profit outfits or NGOs. The vacant positions of UN bodies are widely publicized and displayed on their respective websites. The process of recruitment and hiring is very transparent and merit based.   

     

    Can you tell our readers about the role of the aforesaid organisations as well as your role as a member of UNAIDS?

    (Hemant has been a member of UNAIDS and has also been a Regional Observer at the Global commission on HIV and Law. He also works in association with UNDP to address the issue of AIDS.)

    It is officially estimated that over two million people in India are living with HIV. Though unofficial figures could be much higher. In other words, the people affected with HIV in India equal the population of cities like Chicago, Houston, Paris and Rome. Another example being that HIV affected people in India equals population of two Mauritius put together. Children (less than fifteen years) account for 6.54%, while two fifth (40.5%) of total HIV infections are among females. I have been working very closely with various UN bodies and international institutions working for the upliftment of marginalized population, be it LGBT community or sex workers. I was nominated to some key committees of UNAIDS, UNDP and UNESCAP; and also IDLO to facilitate diverse projects and programmes in resolving legal hurdles in dealing with people affected with HIV and AIDS. I helped in orientation of several stake holders and also introducing new legislation in South Asia to ensure that there was no discrimination encountered by the people especially women affected by HIV and AIDS at their work place and hospitals. I was instrumental in getting key members of the judiciary, executive and legislature from most South Asian countries on these committees. Several publications were co-authored and edited by me in this direction. India is severely affected by HIV and AIDS. Government and Judiciary have taken some fundamental steps in the direction of dealing with this reality.     

    Kaden Boriss, in association with National university of Singapore, founded an initiative called ‘International Infrastructure and Construction Law Arbitration Moot (IICLAM)’. What was the reason behind doing so? Why did you choose this particular topic for the moot? How do you think mooting contributes to a law student’s holistic development?

    I have worked very closely with an eminent Professor from NUS, Prof. Alan Tan. He was Vice Dean in the Law Faculty at the relevant time. We both decided to bring Kaden Boriss, NUS and Singapore International Arbitration Centre (SIAC) under one roof to deal with the most challenging legal proposition in the developing nations. We identified infrastructure as the key pillar of development in any developing nation. The transactions of infrastructure involve several contracts and agreements with serious and complicated legal implications. Through IICLAM, we resolved to engage the next generation lawyers i.e. law students in resolution of legal disputes in the infrastructure – construction law related matters. The moot competition also enriched law students’ knowledge on the ADR mechanism.

     

    You are a senior expert at Geoman Bind, a legal and policy research think tank. Can you tell our readers about the nature of work you do there, as well as the importance of think tanks in policy making?

    This is the future of legal and policy arena. Goeman Bind HTO is a private non-profit international legal and policy advisory and research think-tank. It is cerebrally and academically supported by patrons from Australia, China, Dubai, France, Germany, Holland, Indonesia, Malaysia, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Slovakia, USA and UK. It stimulates legal experts and academia to offer knowledge to the patrons and inspires policy specialists to share expertise with the recipients. It engages in legal and policy research and advisory while creating a knowledge bank within reachable horizon. Goeman Bind HTO is a unifying process or manifestation of valued and iconic traits of expert legal professionals. It is unique fora of research, resource and legal advisory. This not for profit initiative of combining advisory, research and a think-tank stream under one banner was first conceptualized in 2008 in the form of a platform of like-minded intellectuals, professionals, experts and academicians in the field of law and policy.  Goeman aims to bring under one roof about 50 leading experts and academia in the legal and policy gamut from across the world who could afford the utmost excellence in research, recommendation, opinion and advisory on a complete array of legal issues and policy matters. Goeman provides for a prospect to experts and academia in the legal and policy gamut from all across the world, carrying knowledge and well-versed deliberation to the community dialogue of legal and policy strategy sets. Goeman is projected to become a niche global network of highly qualified academicians, legal and policy advisers. I am involved in couple of legal and policy projects dealing with child labour and child abuse. I am also moderator and referee for some research projects.

     

    You are the chairman of the South Asia committee of the Indian National Bar Association. Would you tell our readers about the work of the INBA and your role in it?

    I am yet to get fully involved in this particular task. Due to paucity of time and other prior engagement, I have not been able to give much time to INBA. But I propose to involve INBA in the forthcoming SAARCLAW conference in Colombo. INBA has tremendous potential and its live wire Kaviraj Singh is a man of amazing abilities and ideas. He is a man who could be highly relevant in bringing about positive changes in the lives of young legal professionals.

     

    Do you find that the Indian education system requires improvement? 

    (Hemant has been a visiting faculty at the Indian School of Business and the FORE School of management.)

    Yes definitely, the Indian system requires fundamental reforms. First and foremost, we need to grow out of the mental block of professional degrees. Profession has nothing to do with professional degrees. We need to inculcate and encourage the natural instincts amongst our students. If any student is good in poetry or music or sports or drama, we need to inspire him or her to embrace the same as a career. In the Indian dispersion as to career path, we have a pre-set mind that career means being an engineer, doctor or lawyer; and rest follows. It is important that students should be given an option to move and shift from their original courses as is possible in US. Indian students get stuck with their courses what they choose at the first instance. It is important that down the line, if that particular course doesn’t interest them, they should have the option of choosing or moving to another course. Further, practical aspects need to be introduced more and more in any career path. Regarding, advise to the students, I would only say follow your passion not the flock. If your passion becomes your profession, sky is the limit. Accomplishment is a relative term at the end of the day.    

     

    You are greatly interested in music. Can you tell us about this interest and how you have pursued it? 

    Music is like meditation for me. It is a means of recharge. I have not had any formal training in music. I started composing and arranging music in 2002. I made a small studio at home in which, I would disappear for hours together. Now, I have an ultra-modern studio with state of the art gadgets and equipments. I launched my brand label `Urf Hekbat’. Urf means alias or also known as. Hekbat is a combination of He for Hemant K for Kumar and Bat for Batra. Initially, I was hesitant to share in the public domain that I was doing music, so I launched this brand name. I launched twin albums of lounge music genre in 2012, which was a big hit. My music started playing in international night clubs and lounges and pubs. In many fashion shows abroad including Berlin fashion show, models walked ramp on my music. I have no commercial agenda for music and it is mere hobby or should I say little more than a hobby. With experience, I can now not only compose music on my own but also create videos for my music tracks. When I was approaching 40s in my age, I felt I was burning out fast in search of fame and wealth. God was really kind to me as by the age of 40, I had earned enough that I could retire and settle down without doing any further work. But this had come at the cost of humongous hard work and stress. Hence, to continue further in profession, I needed a stress-buster hobby and nothing could have been better than music.    

     

    You have pursued courses in corporate law and the procedural laws of the United States at Harvard Law School and the University of Pennsylvania respectively. How have such courses helped you in your career? 

    Both my children are studying in the United States. I really like the US system of education. I was invited by Harvard Law School to be part of their project regarding legal profession and its international dimensions. This project was being undertaken in collaboration with Indian School of Business, Hyderabad. I became part of this project and gained a lot in terms of experience. I was given lecturer’s role as well. In so far as University of Pennsylvania is concerned as I mentioned that my children live in USA, I wanted to get hold of the basics of US laws, hence, this course.  

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    I compare legal profession with a space shuttle. When the space shuttle takes off from the launch pad, it emanates huge fire and steam because it assumes too much stress and pressure. Many a times space shuttles blows off and burns while if it doesn’t it goes into the orbit – universe. Likewise, legal profession in the initial years is very testing and stressful but if one can withhold that pressure and steer on with hard work; sky is the limit. I struggled and worked really hard in the initial 5-8 years but after that the growth was vertical. I achieved my targets and aspirations quite early in my career. This profession is very fulfilling and accomplishing. It gives you independence, freedom and command in every which way. It only expects hard-work, discipline and accountability.   

     

    What are the characteristics you would look for while recruiting young lawyers? 

    Predominantly, I try to see through a candidate in a way that I could identify if he or she has an urge to learn. Legal profession commences with a learning process and then turns into an employment or job or a remunerative arrangement. If one is keeping fiscal expectations in the forefront then he or she is not my choice. Remuneration is important but not fundamental. Learning and training is everything in the initial years. I also look for a cutting edge. Why should I hire you? Is my standard last question. The candidate has to show me, why him or her over others. CGPA is one of the features, we look at but that is not the whole and sole deciding factor.

     

    How have you used your media exposure to influence specific aspects of the legal discourse in India?

    (Hemant has been invited to express your opinion in mass media such as newspapers, magazines and TV shows. You wield unique influence over the legal discourse in India.)

    When you become an experienced legal professional and lawyer, you become a significant resource for any kind of media and medium. I have always believed that experience and knowledge not shared is a waste. I have selflessly shared knowledge at any given opportunity.

     

    What do you think are some of the legal challenges India’s legal fraternity faces today?

    I think in today’s times the biggest legal challenge our fraternity faces is coping up with the ever changing technology. Those who will not change with the changing needs of time will get wiped out. Way back in 1996, a distinguished law professor from UK, Richard Susskind in his book `The Future of Law’ noted that changes in technology will fundamentally, irreversibly and comprehensively change legal practice, the administration of justice, and the way in which non-lawyers handle their legal and quasi-legal affairs. Law has to be viewed as a business and a profession. In fact, to better understand the transformation of legal practice from a profession traditionally made up of small independent firms to a multi-billion dollar global business; Harvard Law School had long back established the Center on Lawyers and the Professional Services Industry. “Law firms and other professional service providers are now a critical part of the global economy,” said Harvard Law School Professor David Wilkins.

     

    How can India better its legal regime so that it is more efficient, inclusive and in alignment without nations development goals?

    I think this can be achieved by opening up the legal profession beyond borders, introducing a high notch of accountability so as to discipline the legal professionals and carrying out day to day systematic orientation. We need to realize that hundreds and thousands of students graduate each year in law and eventually get enrolled as lawyers. There is a massive gap in theory and practise. We need to bridge this gap by orientation and proper placements.  

     

    Can you describe a regular day in your life for our readers? 

    For me it is a five day week in so far as work is concerned. I start my day early, I am in office by 7:30/8:00 AM. I work at stretch be it desk work or meetings until 2:00 PM. I take lunch and rest between 2.00 – 3.30 PM. I am back to work and wind-up around 7:30/8:00 PM. I try to keep meeting outside office for not more than 2 days (preferably one day) a week. Saturday is a hobby day for me when I do music compositions in my music studio. Sunday is totally for family and friends. I am travelling out of Delhi or India seven to ten days a month on an average.

     

    How would you describe your long and illustrious career in the legal field? 

    I think some of the most eventful or accomplishing landscapes of my career are as follows –

    • Opportunity to work very closely with Shardul and Pallavi Shroff gave me an initial head start in profession.
    • My association at the threshold of the profession with legal luminaries like Justice P.N. Bhagwati, Justice A.M. Ahmadi, Justice R. C. Lahoti, Justice U. C. Banerjee, Mr. P.P. Rao and Mr. K. K. Venugopal boosted my self-esteem and gave me a confident pitch.
    • My association with SAARCLAW at a very young age and victory in all elections at the domestic and international level for the offices therein, gave me tremendous visibility.
    • I was assigned complicated international legal transactions for global clients like Bayer, Suzuki, LG, Godfrey Philips, Kuwait Royalty, AMEX, WU and many more. These transactions took me across borders. I began to be getting recognized as a global corporate and commercial layer.
    • When I founded Kaden Boriss, it was an ultimate feather in my legal cap.
    • And now with Goeman Bind HTO, I stand recognized as a Policy Expert and Thinker.      

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    My advice to the young students is that keep your feet firmly on the ground. Legal profession is the only profession in the world where growth is vertical, if you are determined, hard-working and disciplined. These three qualities work like a magic potion for assured success. And always be humble.   

     

  • Rajendra Misra, Senior VP-General Counsel, Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, on IPR, and his diverse experience

    Rajendra Misra, Senior VP-General Counsel, Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, on IPR, and his diverse experience

    Rajendra Misra graduated in law from University of Calcutta, in 1991. After successful stints at Indal, Dunlop India Limited, ITC Limited, and Hindustan Unilever Limited, he is currently Senior VP-General Counsel at Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris. Mr. Misra is the chief legal advisor to the CEO and Board, advising on legal implications of business issues, proactively spotting prospective legal issues, counselling the executive management on legal and regulatory aspects etc. His role encompasses Strategic Litigation planning, Litigation management, selecting and supervising outside counsel, driving strategic initiatives to achieve business objectives while also ensuring adequate protection of legal rights of the organization, building strategic partnerships and alliances with outside counsel and attorneys, Risk minimization and Risk management, developing a Compliance culture, Corporate governance, process improvements, using technology as a tool for efficient management of the function, and developing and managing the team.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His role in ushering in crucial reforms at Taj
    • Receiving accolades such as “GC Powerlist: India 2016″, “Trailblazers: India’s Finest In-house Counsels” by the Indian Corporate Counsel Association, among others
    • His illustrious experience spanning 26 years

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I come from a family of lawyers. My father started his law practice in Kolkata. My sister is a practising lawyer at the Calcutta High Court. I have several relatives as well practising law. I consider myself to be a student of law. I have spent 26 years in the legal field; however, the field is vast, law is ever evolving, and every day one is learning new things. The quest of knowledge is unending, and I am always keen to learn more.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field? 

    Even before I could understand its true meaning, the expression “Possession is nine points of law” fascinated me! I probably heard it from my father. I think it is the discussions between my father and my sister on legal issues which got me interested in law. Gradually, as my interest in law grew, I decided to make it my career. And once I made the decision, I pursued it seriously.

     

    How was your experience in law school? 

    We were one of the initial batches of the integrated five year law course. Typically, the law schools teach you basics of law, laying the foundation. The other thing which you are introduced to is analytical thinking, debating etc., all of which help one later in life. During law school days, Constitutional Law, Contracts and Conveyancing were my subjects of interest. I believe it is extremely important for the students to supplement the knowledge from law school with practical experience gathered through internships. Even as I was studying law, I used to regularly attend the chamber of a Senior Advocate in Calcutta as a trainee. I used to make it a point to attend college, and then attend court post lunch, followed by attending chamber in the evening. Watching the proceedings in court was a great learning. Carrying on research work at the chamber was also a learning experience. I learnt early on the merits of being precise while drafting, that it always pays to say less and be precise, rather than say more and be rambling. Even before completing my law course, I had the privilege of assisting my senior in a case of copyright infringement. I had not read up on copyrights earlier and IPR was not in our curriculum. I researched the subject and found it interesting – very different from the regular property, inheritance and other civil cases. I think that exposure resulted in my interest in Intellectual Property Rights later.

     

    Was the decision to work as an in-house counsel as opposed to working at a law firm a conscious one? 

    I was always interested in a counsel practice, as opposed to working at a law firm. As such, I never really considered the option of working in a law firm. I firmly believe that the decision whether to work in a law firm, or as a counsel or as an in-house counsel is an individual decision, and each one should decide on the basis of his/her interests.

    So how did the movement from counsel practice to in-house counsel happen? Fairly early in my law career, Indian Aluminium Company, Limited (Indal) was looking to recruit an in-house counsel to handle their major legal cases. My father suggested I should consider applying. While initially I was a bit hesitant, he encouraged me to explore. I must say that I had never done an internship in an in-house legal department, and as such this was like walking into the unknown, taking a leap of faith. But I did take the plunge, and have never regretted it. It perhaps helped that Indal wanted me to handle its major legal cases. Therefore, I was never far away from litigation, courts and counsel. Gradually, of course, other aspects of the in-house counsel role also grew on me.

     

    You undertook the Hawkesmere course on IPR in London, and have a Postgraduate Diploma in Patent Law. Can you tell our readers about this course?

    Both these courses were part of the effort to continuously upgrade professional knowledge, and were extremely relevant at the respective point of time.

    A couple of years into my career in ITC, I was given additional responsibility of supervising the IP Cell. Following this, I had gone to London for the Hawkesmere Course on International Intellectual Property Law. Hawkesmere used to conduct such courses aimed towards Continuous Professional Development of executives. This was a two day intensive course, and gave a great insight into various aspects of international IP law, which was very relevant at a time when the IP laws around the world were evolving following the TRIPs agreement.

    Around 2005-06, ITC began diversifying into the Personal Care business. While I was heading its IP Cell, we were mainly into Trademarks and Copyrights. But with the diversification into the Personal Care business, we also began filing patent applications. So I decided to take up the Post Graduate Diploma in Patents Law course of NALSAR. This course was a mix of proximate education and on campus sessions. It was a wonderful way of undergoing training in patents law while working. The faculty was good and experienced. One got a great insight into patents. We had to research and submit two papers on patents as part of the PG Diploma course. The tough part, of course, was balancing work and learning. That was compounded by the fact that I was taking up studying nearly twenty years after having left college. Our professors had sound words of advice for those of us who were taking up studies after a long time – apart from training us on patents, we were also advised to practise handwriting, because twenty years after college, one tends to lose the practice of writing by hand, and it is not easy to write a two hour exam without first building up writing speed!

     

    What got you interested in the field of IPR?

    My introduction to the world of IPR was through a copyright infringement case on which I assisted my senior during my internship. We did not have Intellectual Property law as part of the law curriculum, and hence, this was then a totally alien field for me. But I enjoyed researching and working on this case. Later, when I began heading the IP Cell of ITC, my interests in this field of law grew further. The late 90s and early 2000s were momentous years for Intellectual Property Law in India, with India overhauling its IP laws after acceding to the TRIPs agreement. This is when the IP law really evolved in the country, and companies began putting greater focus on management and protection of their intellectual property. This field of law is really fascinating. Protecting brand names and logos is now extremely common place. However, with the new Trademarks Act, the ambit of trademarks has really expanded, and it is possible to protect sound, 3D marks, colour combinations etc. as trademarks. There is enormous scope to do innovative work in this area, and I believe that the potential of unconventional trademarks is waiting to be realised, particularly for FMCG companies, media organizations etc. who are extremely focussed on protection of their IP. Another interesting area is of Geographical Indications. I had a great exposure to this subject several years back in ITC when we were embroiled in a litigation relating to the GI Darjeeling, where the plaintiffs tried unsuccessfully to stop a hotel lounge by the name Darjeeling. The awareness of this new area of IP is increasing day by day, and recently I was delighted to find that a society of weavers in Kasaragod had registered a GI for Kasaragod sarees! The other area of IP which has great potential is patents. However, a good grasp of scientific knowledge gives a distinct advantage in this field. We must remember that at this point of time, the Indian economy has the potential to become the world’s third largest economy by the next decade, and one of the two largest economies by mid-century. The International Monetary Fund describes the Indian economy as the “bright spot” in the global landscape. As the economy grows and businesses expand, IPR will continue to become more and more important, and this will give tremendous opportunities to lawyers and law students.

     

    What would be your advice to our readers undecided about pursuing higher education? 

    Life is a process of continuous learning. My advice would be not to lose any opportunity of learning. If there is an opportunity of pursuing higher education in a field of interest, I would earnestly urge the readers to avail it. Particularly, if you get it before the start of, or early on in the career. I acknowledge that it may not be easy to pursue higher education later in the career. But, as they say, if there is a will, there is a way. My courses undertaken in mid-career were extremely relevant to my roles, and hence, I benefited greatly from undergoing the courses. I guess the key in such cases is relevance and interest.

    What was your first job after law school? 

    Even as I was attending law school, I used to attend the chambers of a senior counsel in Kolkata, interning and learning the ways of courts. So post qualifying, I commenced going to court. In 1993 however, Indian Aluminium Company, Limited (Indal), a subsidiary of Alcan, Canada was looking for a legal resource to handle their major legal issues, which were till then being handled by a Dy. Company Secretary, who was due for retirement. I remember going for the interview in the most casual manner – straight from court without any preparation and wearing only a jacket and no tie – only to find to my horror several candidates immaculately dressed in suits and ties, seriously reading business newspapers and waiting to be called for the interview. I don’t know what my interviewer and future boss saw in me, because out of the many candidates, he chose a greenhorn like me for the assignment. God bless him for that choice, because thus began my journey as inhouse counsel in some of the topnotch companies.

    It was a blessing in disguise that a few months after my joining, a library-full of files landed on my head – all relating to the major legal cases of Indal. These were high value litigations relating to electricity laws and mining laws. The best of legal brains of the country were appearing for Indal in these matters, and very early in my career I came to interact with them, initially with a sense of awe, but followed quickly by confidence, even as I saw and learnt from their discipline for this great profession. Several months down the line, Indal went for a Euro issue, and that pitched me in front of US lawyers, defending the major litigations of Indal and assuring them that all was under control and that Indal had good merits in these cases – something which I did with confidence, earning the Managing Director’s special award in the process. I handled my first merger transaction at Indal, when we merged a power generation company, which was a subsidiary of Indal, with the parent company.

    Given that Indal was my first job, apart from learning about corporate law, I also learnt corporate language (very different from the language used in pleadings!), corporate behaviour and corporate dynamics at Indal. The early experiences in Indal transformed me from a counsel to a corporate lawyer. I learnt the importance of dispensing with legal jargon and talking/writing in simple language which is understood by business/non-lawyers. The Indal stint also introduced me to the fact that as in-house counsel, I should be looking at the business aspect of an issue apart from its legal aspects – the fact that legal manager has two facets – ‘legal’ and ‘manager’ – and the in-house counsel has to consider both legal and business aspects in order to arrive at a fine balance, serving the business interests of the organization while remaining within the boundaries of law.

     

    Can you tell us about your time at ITC?

    It was during 1997 that ITC was looking to augment strength in their Legal Department. I was then based out of Kolkata, and for any legal professional in Kolkata, ITC was a dream job. Therefore, when they offered to recruit me, without batting an eyelid I joined them. The ITC journey was a tremendous one. Fairly early in my ITC stint, I began partnering the Tobacco business, the largest business of ITC. Over time, as they spun off newer businesses, I got the opportunity of advising the newer businesses as well, helping them find their feet the right way, ensuring legal compliance even as the businesses grew, acquiring new brands, manufacturing facilities and companies for the organic and inorganic growth of the new businesses. Thus began my association with the Foods business, the Personal Care business, the Lifestyle Retailing business, the Matches & Agarbatti businesses, and the Stationery business – very diverse businesses. Even while doing so, I continued to partner the Tobacoo business, which had its own set of challenges, Tobacco being a heavily regulated industry.

    ITC takes IP management very seriously, and it was my privilege to lead their IP Cell too. While during the Tobacoo/Foods/LRBD days, management of Trademarks and Copyrights was the dominant theme, the advent of Personal Care business also brought with it experience in handling Patents management. The most interesting thing was that with newer businesses being spun off, we also learnt on the job. Overall, it was a great time, with huge learnings. In many ways, we used to operate as an in-house law firm. We used to do a lot of drafting in-house – agreements as well as pleadings. We also used to do a lot of research in-house, and ITC had an excellent library of legal journals, law books, as well as legal research software like Manupatra, SCC Online, Excus, PTC, etc. to enable research. And, we used to take an active part in briefing counsel in our legal cases. With our drafting and research, we used to support our counsel and solicitors in a big way, something which was well appreciated by them.

    The Tobacco business came up with innovative ways of advertising – it was the role of the Legal function to ensure that the business always remained within the four corners of law. Being a highly regulated industry, the Tobacco business took compliance with legal requirements extremely seriously, and the Legal voice was heard with respect. With the new businesses, I got the opportunity of creating and protecting new brands, acquiring new brands, negotiating and closing with new manufacturing facilities, sometimes buying new manufacturing facilities. The best part was the acquisition of a bio-technology company which was into production of seed potatoes, with manufacturing facilities in multiple countries. Due diligence in multiple jurisdictions, and structuring the transaction was extremely challenging. I distinctly remember the night prior to Closing, when we stayed up the entire night finalizing the transaction documents, to seal the deal at 10 o’clock in the morning. It was a tremendous experience.

    As the years went by and my responsibilities increased, so did my levels. I moved on from being Asst. Manager – Legal to Asst. Solicitor to Associate General Counsel. From a solo start, the ITC stint gave me the experience of managing a team. I had a great time working with fantastic business leaders, excellent mentors, fine peers and a great team. Finally, after spending 14 years in the organization, I had a feeling that I had done all that was to be done in Kolkata and in ITC. I got an urge to spread the wings and fly away out of Kolkata, all the way to the western shores of the country – to its commercial capital. I was looking out when HUL called. And that was a dream assignment, too difficult to refuse.

     

    How did your appointment at HUL happen?

    Unilever is a great organization. It is the king of marketing in the country. In 2011, HUL was looking for a senior legal resource for heading its legal team partnering the personal care and homecare businesses, the largest of its businesses, representing more than 75% of its turnover. It was my privilege that they selected me for the role. I became a part of the HUL Leadership team and the Legal Leadership team. Unilever is a powerhouse of great leaders. It would not be wrong to say that Unilever “manufactures” leaders, some of whom occupy some very senior positions across the industry today. It was a great time at Unilever, working and collaborating with some of the finest brains in the business today.

    Over time, my role in Unilever grew. In addition to leading the legal team partnering the personal care and homecare business, I also got the charge to supervise the Legal team of Lakme Lever Ltd., a subsidiary of HUL. Later, the Water business and Kimberly Clarke Lever Ltd. also got added to my profile. Over time, in addition to my above responsibilities, I also became the Global Legal Counsel for Lifebuoy and Fair & Lovely, two iconic brands of Unilever, apart from discharging the role as Brand Development Counsel for the entire South Asia region. I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my role in Unilever. The learnings were immense. Interacting with the best legal brains across the Unilever universe, one picked up global best practices, and came to learn about new and upcoming fields of law. The business teams in Unilever are demanding and one has to be nimble to manage them, and it was a joy working as a team. One of the most important things which Unilever experience brought out was the risk-taking appetite, something extremely crucial for the business. The best part was that Unilever gives you complete freedom in your job profile – the canvas is yours to paint. Another fantastic thing was that I had a young, energetic and dynamic team. Interacting with such a young and dynamic group was great and challenging at the same time. It kept you young and contemporary, but at the same time you also had to be several steps ahead of them. It was a joy mentoring these bright young legal minds.

    At Unilever, I had the opportunity to look at, frame and defend some cutting edge product claims and advertising. The most memorable was a comparative advertising, where we showed the competitor’s product and claimed that our product was better than theirs. It was risky, but it was a calculated risk we took, and one which was worth taking, given that our product was truly cutting edge and better than competition. Therefore, the claim was factually correct, through it ran the risk of a competitive challenge. During the planning stage, I advised the business group that we should expect the competitor to take the battle to courts. I made intelligent guesses, and was able to accurately anticipate the court where they could file the legal challenge, and prepared counsel in advance so that we were in a position to defend our claims. My forecast proved correct, and we got locked in a fierce competitive battle with the competitor. We succeeded in defending our claims and in keeping the comparative advertising going for a long period of time despite the competitor’s attempts to shut us out. This campaign is a landmark in the history of comparative advertising in the country.

    The other memorable piece of work was acquisition of a natural ayurvedic medicine brand and product for Unilever. With the rise in demand for natural products, and growth of new competitors in this field, Unilever set about acquiring this natural ayurvedic medicine brand and product line, and I was in the thick of due diligence and negotiations with the promoters of the product/brand, and we worked out a great deal for the company. Unfortunately, before we could ink the deal, I quit to move on to Taj, but it gave me immense satisfaction when the deal was finally concluded soon thereafter. It is a matter of pride to see the product on the shelf. Incidentally, this was not the first brand/product line purchase for me. I had done quite a few in ITC as well. And, today when I see these products on the shelf in retail stores, I feel immense pride in having been associated with these acquisitions, and have great stories to tell about them to my children.

    Towards the end of 2015, Taj was looking to appoint a Senior Vice President – General Counsel on its Executive Committee – the highest executive body just below the Board of Directors of the company. When Taj gave me an offer to join their Executive Committee, reporting to the Managing Director, and overseeing the Legal & Secretarial functions, it was a great offer. During my professional career, I have always valued professionalism and high moral standards in an organization. Both Unilever and ITC are extremely professional companies, with high ethical standards. Taj and the Tata group are universally admired for their great professionalism and high ethical standards. Therefore, the organizational profile was a perfect fit. The role was also very interesting and challenging. Apart from supervising my function, sitting on the Executive Committee also gives me a great experience in understanding and analysing business issues, appreciating legal issues in a business context, prioritizing legal issues accordingly, and taking risk calls for business growth. Therefore, I decided to take the plunge and join Taj – a decision which I haven’t since regretted. Today, apart from being a member of the Executive Committee of Taj, I am also a Director on the Board of TajGVK Hotels & Resorts Ltd., a listed company which is a joint venture between Taj and GVK group.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the reforms you brought in Taj during your time there?

    At the Taj, we deal with a lot of contracts, under which we have valuable rights in respect of our 100 plus hotels. Contract management is an important area for us. In the modern world, contracts tracking on Excel sheets is sub-optimal and does not work. With advancement in technology, it was important that we use technology to our advantage in managing our important contracts. Hence, I deployed a Contract Management software at Taj. It serves as an archive of all our hotel management contracts and other important contracts, and also tracks contract renewal dates and auto-generates alerts for the team, ensuring timely renewals, and risk mitigation.

    The next issue was ensuring uniformity of contracts across the organization. My team is spread over multiple locations. It is crucial that everyone in the team follows standardized contract templates, instead of digging into personal drives and using different contract formats. Hence, I constituted a Task Force to standardize about 25 of our main contracts. We spent a lot of time discussing and debating the changes to these contracts. And, we did this inhouse because we believe that being closest to the business, we were the most equipped to standardize our contracts keeping in mind our business requirements and challenges. Once standardization happened, we uploaded the standard versions of the contracts on the Contract Management software so that everyone uses the same format, regardless of location. This ensures consistency of contracts, and has minimized risks for the organization.

    Laws impact everyone in the organization, and increased legal awareness leads to greater compliance and lesser risk exposures; hence, it is important to spread legal awareness within the organization. Here again, I decided to use technology to our advantage. We have developed e-learning modules (Learning Management System or LMS) for our employees on five crucial subjects – Data Privacy & Protection, POSH, Competition Law, Insider Trading, and Related Party Transactions. These are interactive e-learning modules which will explain legal topics in very simple terms and with examples for the non-legal employees.

    The Taj group had deployed a Compliance Management system at its units. I have now commenced Gap analysis, which is in the nature of an audit that will help us identify and fill up gaps, if any, in the compliance management by individual units. This will further strengthen the compliance management within the organization.

    Similarly, Taj was in the process of deploying Litigation management software and Intellectual Property management software. We went full throttle in order to operationalize them on priority basis. All Taj litigations and IPR have now been uploaded onto the Litigation management software and the Intellectual Property management software, leading to better management of litigations and IPR.

    I believe that with all the above measures, people in the organization can sleep better, assured that we are doing the right thing, in the right way and that our risks are getting minimized.

    You pioneered an initiative which led to the Taj Mahal Hotel building in Mumbai being India’s first building to secure a trademark for the image of the hotel. Can you tell our readers about how you achieved this?

    The image trademark registration was a result of a combination of many factors, my fascination with unconventional trademarks being one. The other was the constant feeling of what more one can do to protect the rights of my organization, and how can I ring fence it better. Yet another was the desire to create value for the organization, because I believe that the Legal Department is not just a cost-centre, it can also create value for the organization. The Taj Mahal Palace, Mumbai is the iconic flagship of Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, and is a defining structure of Mumbai’s skyline. The distinctive red-tiled Florentine Gothic dome of the hotel, which crowns the elegant Indo-Saracenic arches and architraves of the iconic hotel, sits 240 feet above street level. Since 16th December, 1903, when the hotel first opened its doors to guests, its striking dome has been the triangulation point for the Indian Navy to guide them in the harbor. It is widely recognised as the temple of hospitality. I do not need a signboard on this iconic property for the public to know that it is the Taj hotel. One look at the property and you know that it is The Taj Mahal Palace, representing the finest in Indian hospitality traditions. To my mind, that is exactly what a Trademark is. Therefore, I went about securing this image trademark registration. After conceiving this idea, I presented it to the Managing Director and my peers at the Executive Committee, who enthusiastically supported it. We got the trademark applications filed through Anand & Anand, the top notch intellectual property law firm in the country. The applications were pursued on top priority, and we were able to secure the registration in 7 months. I must say that a stellar role was played by the Trademarks Registry and by Anand & Anand in prosecuting the applications and securing the registrations. Often, people who are part of a historic moment do not realise that they are creating history, and I daresay that most of the people who participated in the process may not have realised the significance of the moment. But history it certainly was – we had become the first Indian building to have secured image trademark registration. Only a few iconic buildings across the world have been able to secure such registration – the Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building and the Sydney Opera House to name some. With this image trademark registration, the iconic Taj Mahal Palace, Mumbai became a member of this unique and elite club – the first Indian building to do so. As an Indian, that swells my heart with pride. As an employee of The Taj group and Tata group, it makes me immensely happy that I have been able to get such a unique protection and status for our legendary hotel. This is a very unusual and unconventional trademark, and the outcome of a pioneering effort. Many organizations register brands and logos as trademarks. However, the scope of “trademark” is much beyond mere brands and logos. Sound, images, colour combinations, 3D images etc. can also be registered as trademarks. Such unconventional trademarks can create great value for organizations, representing its USP. And, being beyond the conventional, they can become great talking points for organizations.

     

    Can you tell our readers about IBHA’s role in the industry? 

    (Mr. Misra has been the chairman of Indian Beauty and Hygiene Association.)

    IBHA is the premier industry association representing reputed personal care/beauty/FMCG companies in the country, viz. HUL, P&G, L’Oreal, Marico, Dabur etc. IBHA plays a key role in advocacy on behalf of the industry with the government. I was Chairman of the Legal Committee of IBHA, and used to play a very active role on various industry issues. We made representations to the government on various issues impacting the industry. I strategized and handled several legal issues/litigations on behalf of the personal care industry. In my capacity as the Chairman of its Legal Committee, I was the Legal advisor to the Executive Committee of IBHA, which comprised of the Personal Care Director of HUL, COO of L’Oreal, MD of Godrej Consumer Products, CEO of ITC’s Personal Care business etc. It was most wonderful interacting with these industry captains, advising them on the legal issues impacting the industry.

     

    You have often been recognised as one of the finest in-house counsels in India. What are the qualities required to succeed as an in house counsel? 

    It has been an honour to have got recognition from such leading organizations as The Legal 500 and the ICCA. To succeed as an in-house counsel, one needs several qualities. First and foremost, one needs to have an analytical mind, and should be capable of making dispassionate analysis of issues. Together with legal knowledge, one should have a good understanding of the business of the organization. Risk-taking appetite is an extremely important quality which an in-house counsel should have. An in-house counsel should be solution-oriented, providing the business with solutions to their problems rather than raising the red flag on everything. It is also extremely important that he should be able to speak out his mind without fear or favour, keeping the interest of the organization and all stakeholders over everything else. Above all, an in-house counsel should have the ability to balance the business and legal aspects, and achieve the optimum balance which will ensure that the organization achieves its business objectives without compromising on legalities.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today?

    One issue which readily comes to mind is the growth challenge in Kolkata. As I mentioned earlier, after 14 years in ITC, I had a feeling that I had done everything possible in ITC and in Kolkata. I was born and brought up in the city, and always worked there. However, at that point of time, I was faced with the situation that if I had to grow my career further, I had to leave my city of birth and move to unknown pastures. Having spent 40 years in a city, that is not an easy decision to take. However, I took the bold decision to quit my job at ITC, and leave my city of birth to move to HUL in Mumbai. At that point of time, it was very unsettling. However, in retrospect, I am glad that I took the decision to move out. My movement to different organizations has given me the opportunity to expand my knowledge and experience. Over time, I have learnt that change is a constant. There is always risk in change; however, as they say, “A ship is safe in harbour, but that is not what ships are meant for.”

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in?

    It is extremely important to stay updated about the latest developments in the legal field. I once came across the statement ,“If the rate of change outside is greater than the rate of change inside, then you become redundant”. That to me underlines the importance of keeping oneself updated with the latest. The world today is changing faster than ever, with new developments coming about everyday. It is important that our knowledge keeps pace with this fast-paced development all around us. Keeping oneself updated also enables one to correctly analyse a situation and advise in any given scenario. Latest changes in the legal field can be gleaned from various sources, viz. the media, professional social media, legal journals, Manupatra alerts, Google alerts etc., as also from participating in various professional knowledge-sharing groups. I also attend conferences and seminars on topics of interest in order to keep myself updated.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    A career in law is a great one to take up. Knowledge is the most important asset of professionals. My advice to college students would be to keep increasing their bandwidth of knowledge. Do internships at good organizations and keep gathering new experience.

     

  • Sudipta Routh, Partner, SAMVAD: Partners, on Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt Capital Markets

    Sudipta Routh, Partner, SAMVAD: Partners, on Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt Capital Markets

    Sudipta Routh graduated in law from NLS, Bangalore, in 1996. After successful stints at ICI India (now part of AkzoNobel NV) and Trilegal, he went on to pursue his Masters at Queen Mary, Univ. of London, batch of 2006. Since then, he has worked with Clifford Chance, Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, and founded Agram Legal Consultants. He is currently Partner at SAMVAD: Partners, where his role entails Mergers & Amalgamations, Foreign Investments & Joint Ventures, Cross-Border Banking and Finance, Trade Finance, Debt Capital Markets (Domestic and International), Corporate Advisory.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His internships
    • His extensive experience at Tier-I firms
    • His current role at SAMVAD: Partners

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a science student I did the usual things science students did back then, many entrance exams. It helped that my CET scores were mostly non-reportable. I was surprised when I came in thirteenth in the NLS entrance test (no CLAT back then). My grandfather was a lawyer, but during colonial times. He passed away when I was quite young. My dad used to be in the army and a metallurgist.  He neither inspired me to take up law, nor was he inspired when I did. Very few (except the NLS faculty perhaps) had any inkling of the influence NLS would go on to have on legal education and the preeminent stature of the institution today.

     

    Can you share some memorable experiences from you time at NLSIU?

    Too hard to choose any one. Mr. Soli Sorabjee’s speeches, Chief Justice E. S. Venkataramiah classes (he taught Constitutional Law 1 and 2 immediately after retiring from the Supreme Court), Mr. Ram Jethmalani’s classes (he took a sabbatical to teach us Criminal Law for a month or more), Chief Justice Ahmadi (gave me my degree certificate), stirring speech by APJ Abdul Kalam at that time he was SA to RM. We had no idea we were interacting with the greatest president India would ever have. He signed a photograph for me, squatting on the floor, building a rocket – I keep this really carefully.  We were fortunate to have a lot of greatness rubbing off on us. Many of us were blissfully unaware though.  Sometimes, in hindsight, it was a little surreal too. Dr. Manmohan Singh (Chairman of UGC back then) had come by to inaugurate a hostel block. Two of my best buddies considered it their national duty to entertain him then and there. Of all things, they sang “Comfortably Numb” (quite badly, but it could’ve been the sound system). I can’t say Dr. Singh was comfortable (he clapped feebly), he certainly looked numb. He went on to become Finance Minister next month, the magic of 1991 happened, then prime minister, the rest is again history – you make what you will of that, but if I hope those two rock stars are not reading this!

    Amidst all this, there are those in the faculty who have dedicated more than a quarter century of their most productive years, who are still there now, and who still know each of us by our names and misdeeds. I am still living off that.

     

    Did you pursue activities such as moots, debates and internships in law school?

    The mooting standards were spectacular. Even before the first batch had graduated, NLS teams had already won international competitions. I mooted, but was thoroughly overawed. I focused on paths of lesser resistance, debates, quizzes, and other literary events. By my second year, NLS was dominating the “culfest” scene.  I was born for sports and athletics. M.P. Ganesh, India hockey legend, then director of Sports Authority of India (which is close to NLS campus), gave us full access to world class facilities. That was heaven.

    My internships were in the High Court (Bangalore), chambers of a senior counsel, a PSU bank, an NGO, law firms in Bangalore and Mumbai, and two multinational companies in Chennai and Pondicherry. These internships were invaluable. They gave me a job, and the chance of coping with life experiences (in Mumbai, I would always run out of cash in the very first week, from Pondicherry I could send money home if I wanted, which I didn’t eventually. By the end of the fourth year, I had a career plan (and several Plan Bs). By the end of the fifth year, I had three offers on campus (not without anxious moments). The internships had however already prepped me for whatever was to come.

     

    Would you say law school prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    The programme was superbly designed, even for the most indifferent student. The internship program was only one aspect. Other than the tough curriculum (two tests plus a project and a viva for each of the 60 subjects – none of which you could score below 50), we had a retinue of occasional / vocational teachers from every walk of life, academicians, industry captains, scientists, politicians, ministers, activists, sportsmen even, who taught us a life-lesson or two every now and then. NLS was conceived by brilliant educationalists, it also had the backing of the entire Judiciary, the Bar Council of India, the Karnataka Bar Council, the Bangalore University and the Government of Karnataka. The Chief Justice of India was the Chancellor. The Chairman, BCI, was the Chairman of the GC. I guess the odds were heavily against the “real world” when we stepped out.

     

    What are your areas of interest? How did you discover such fields and cultivate your knowledge of them?

    Intense focus in any one subject I owe to Professor Pillai (he continues to teach at NLS even today). His question papers were legendary. They were excruciating but hugely satisfying (i.e. if you passed) – at least eight to nine pages long and labyrinthine. They were invariably open book (the more you carried in, the worse your chances). He would set information dense scenarios (deviously misleading) which would require extremely quick analyses and a sort of synthetic application of competing principles. It was possible to come to diametrically opposite conclusions and be assured that both solutions were equally right. He provoked thought and demanded only the ability to solve problems – not swotting his notes or reeling off citations. So Corporate Laws and M&A was where it all began for me. I guess Prof. Pillai was really trying to inculcate method and application. He left the “imparting knowledge” part to you. Much later I would tackle a Masters, banking and finance, debt capital markets and restructuring, using only his approach.

     

    As an expert in Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt capital markets, can you tell our readers a little about the subjects and the nature of work they demands?

    Maybe they all require different mind-sets. M&A perhaps requires a certain “structuring” knack based on comfortable ability with the corporate laws, exchange control, tax and some sector specific laws. Banking & Finance, less of “structuring” but far greater technical ability distilled from in-depth knowledge of market practices. Debt Capital Markets (especially the cross-border variety), a deeper regulatory awareness and conversational fluency with international market practices. Perhaps the common thread is really an ability to solve problems rapidly and deal with complexities even faster. Sometimes the spin-offs can be startling. When you are able to use a run-of-the-mill old hat technique in one practice area, add some bells and whistles, and push it out as as a “brilliant innovation” in another. This cross-pollination will make you stand out – you mustn’t give the game away then, pretend it’s an original brainwave, you are naturally quick witted like that, and in an everyday matter of fact way. Accept the applause graciously.

     

    What was your first job out of law school and how did you secure it? 

    ICI India Limited (now Akzo-Nobel).  ICI was looking for an entry level M&A and corporate lawyer. I had gone through two rounds without breaking a sweat (I had just interned with an MNC). My final interview was with my to-be “super-boss”, sharp eyed and intimidating. He immediately picked up on the word “treaties” in an obscure paper I had unfortunately mentioned in my CV – “Economic Analysis of Indian Double Taxation Treaties” (My wife-to-be, NLS senior batch, had made a “serious contribution”. I had speed read the Indo-Mauritian DTA though, some months ago).  He asked me how many “treaties I had to analyse to write this “seminal, heavy duty paper”. I distinctly felt the rug slip. I blurted “all” (mostly by reflex) and looked surprised that he should even ask? That was it. He stopped his interrogation immediately. I saw a paternal smile which clearly said “You are hired!” Much later, I fessed up to him and my boss – I could hear the boss man laugh long and hard.

     

    What was your work profile at ICI Group? 

    ICI had just launched a take-over bid on Asian Paints. This was apparently the first bid under India’s first “takeover code”, freshly minted in 1994. I had two wonderful mentors – two bosses, one in Calcutta the other at Delhi. They gave me a free hand (but would always keep an eye, I didn’t know then). I ended up fronting 3 M&A deals all by myself (or so I thought back then) by my 3rd and 4th year at ICI. I left suddenly, on a whim, to join Trilegal – but ICI immediately followed as a client.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Trilegal?

    The name would come a tad later. The founding partners were actually founders of three firms which they had started-up independently (at around the same time) in different cities. Sridhar and Karan (seniors at NLS) in Mumbai, Akshay and Anand in Delhi, Rahul and Prem (again, seniors at NLS) in Bangalore.  What I remember hazily is sometime in the winter of 2000 these gentlemen were in Delhi (possibly discussing Trilegal?). I was with ICI based at Delhi then and Sridhar caught up and asked if I would join Singh and Gorthi at Mumbai. I immediately did. Trilegal was christened very soon thereafter.

    I was an M&A partner. ICI had followed as a client, for an acquisition from Hindustan Levers (HLL). Then HLL hired us soon after for one other – they were across the table on that first deal. My two mentors at ICI (one of them had already moved on to a famous technology MNC as GC and the other would, a little later, as GC to a bellwether IT giant) stood by and referred a couple of acquisitions. I had not planned on leaving Trilegal. I went to London to complete my masters in Banking & Finance, to come back with perhaps an extra arrow or three in my quiver (or at least that was the plan). The LLM without the work experience would not nearly count as such. So therefore Clifford Chance –that stint continued longer than either I or Trilegal had planned.

     

    What motivated you to finish your masters? 

    This was planned for long time. I planned on doing my masters back in my fifth year. We were allowed a choice of either M&A or Banking & Finance for our 5th year clinicals. You couldn’t choose both for some reason. I, of course, opted for M&A with Prof. Pillai. So Banking & Finance was definitely on the cards for later.  Banking & Finance is also hugely driven by market practice, so this had to be a “practical” and working programme with an assured return on my investment (never bright enough for a scholarship). I picked a very specific programme (designed by Prof. Walker) at Queen Mary, CCLS after many months of painstaking research. As with the programme at NLS, this programme featured several partners from Magic Circle City firms – A&O, Linklaters, Clifford Chance, Freshfields, Chadbourne & Parke – the GC of World Bank and the redoubtable Philip Wood.

    The LLM would give me a new livelihood and a dual qualification in an international market. It is probably not enough to have an objective. You need a strategy (or two or three). Choosing a programme and the timing is part planning part luck. If you are pursuing a career in academics or with multilateral organizations, it is best you plan from your fourth year onwards and finish your masters as quickly as you can (the long slippery slope of an M.Phil / Ph.D lurks ahead, so Godspeed and good luck). Naturally, your choice of subjects will be simple and mostly driven by your forte. If you desire to augment skill sets, you should ideally hold until you have about four to five years of work experience. At this stage, your choice of universities and subjects will become increasingly complex as also your objective. An LLM without work experience is really a sabbatical – which is hardly a bad thing. Go out, enjoy yourself, take a break and come back enlightened to boot. Do it for the pleasure. Do not expect a payback. An LLM combined with work experience is not only force multiplayer, but you could cunningly weave in the “sabbatical” part. I saw a lot of UK and Europe on a shoestring while studying and working in the UK. You do have to fret about the “work experience” bit right up front though.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Clifford Chance?

    I had completed my masters with an emphasis on leveraged finance. This was a high risk strategy given the Indian context – you still cannot structure PE deals in India using leveraged finance structures. Which meant, if I couldn’t secure a position in UK, the LLM would become a sabbatical (default setting – screensaver, I could have lived with it). The acquisition finance market was highly stratified at that time. The magic circle firms did the large (above USD 500m) and the mega deals, and the small and lower mid-market deals were the preserve of the silver circle firms. CC was at the centre of the centre of that universe. I planned my application well in advance, did tons of research, and wheedled several decent references. I did many interviews with other firms for practice. Enrolled with agencies. I keenly followed CC’s India plans on a daily basis. Made friends and tried to influence them –no stone unturned. Even then, when I got the call it seemed like the Lotto Euromillions numbers just tallied (I used to buy those tickets too). I was a senior associate with “50X” – as the CC banking and finance team was known back then. This was probably the best outfit for acquisition finance transactions. I did a lot of heavy lifting on headline grabbing international acquisition finance transactions, besides bilaterals and restructuring (finance). The work culture was truly world class. There were lawyers from all over the world with absolutely stellar partners. It is my second alma mater, a mothership, very close second to NLS.

    In September, 2008, Lehman Brothers collapsed, literally, in front of us. The European headquarters were located at Canary Wharf, very close to CC. I think it was a Monday when I turned up for work. I saw about 2,000 Lehman employees (some good friends too) cramped outside Lehman offices in Jubilee Park. That, for me was a graphic and symbolic snapshot from ground zero of the beginning of the 2008 crisis. Thereafter, the leveraged finance market simply fell off a cliff. Some in 50X shifted to restructuring, others moved on. I did restructuring for about 8-9 months, which was absolutely fascinating (especially whilst working with the Bank of England and Her Majesty’s Treasury) – but this was no longer a sustainable career option. I returned to India to pick up from where I had started, with those extra arrows in my quiver.

     

    How did your appointment as a Partner at Luthra & Luthra happen? 

    In mid-2009, Mohit Saraf was in London. We met over breakfast near Hyde Park. He asked if I would like to join L&L. It took nine months to return to India, but Mohit was more than patient. I joined as an M&A and Banking & Finance Partner at Mumbai.  Later, I would go on to develop the international debt capital market practice piggybacking on L&L’s superb ECM practice.  

    While at CC, I met with Vaishali Sharma, then Partner with AZB Mumbai. CC had tied up with AZB and she was in CC London in an ambassadorial capacity. Vaishali would return to India and later go on to found Agram Legal Consultants as a sole proprietorship in 2014. After nineteen years of doing everything (in-house, private practice, masters, magic circle…), what remained was the entrepreneurial plunge. In May 2015, I joined Agram.

     

    What was your role in founding Agram Legal Consultants? 

    We converted Agram to a partnership. I was now well and truly into the business of law from scratch, even doing IT and server maintenance by myself. Vaishali was already adept with both the practice and business of law and in addition proved to be an excellent administrator, bookkeeper, interior designer, HR and constant gardener.  The hurdles were many, but nothing loyal client following and good old fashioned project management couldn’t take care of.  As with the practice of law, the business of law, too, threw up more than one right answer. We looked at Agram’s growth from two different perspective. Vaishali focussed on the bottom line with quality as the primary driver and I was looking to grow the top line by adding partners and offices. Hindsight would prove us both right, but for that we needed two different platforms.

     

    You are currently a Partner at Samvad Partners? 

    I was looking for a larger platform around mid-2016. On account of a sporting injury I was admitted in Breach Candy. Harish (batch mate at NLS and old friend) and Vineetha (college mate from NLS and old friend), two of the three founding partners of Samvad came by for possibly the weirdest hiring decision Samvad has made to date. I had just undergone surgery, full of some potent IV stuff they were shooting (legally) – so I probably wasn’t too coherent, but over coffee and masala dosa (or idli?), at Breach Candy canteen I may have convinced Harish and Vineetha somehow. For me, the lifelong friends I made at NLS were yet again banding around me and it was an easy and natural choice. The transition was seamless. I continued with the very same M&A and Banking & Finance deals I was working on. Strangely, my clients didn’t seem to miss a beat (or may have pretended they didn’t) – not even when I was in hospital and these were large cross-border deals.  There were many law firms and many group email ids – so Agram servers were still being pinged. In one deal, Vaishali had to actually step in independently – that was hilarious.

     

    What hurdles have you faced in building your career as it stands today?

    Mostly my own pig-headedness and delusions of how clever I am.

     

    How have you overcome them and what lessons have they taught you?

    I have learnt to constantly double guess the calls I make. The lessons are: not to take myself too seriously; to remember that, success and failure are two sides of the same coin; and with luck (lots of) and planning (even more of), you will often win that toss (maybe, can’t really say for sure).

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to succeed in the world of corporate law?

    Do not depend on your knowledge and expertise with law alone. If you cannot understand your client’s business and financial imperatives, you would serve that client really well by not offering your services in the first place. And borrowing from my old mentor- “God resides in the detail”.

     

    What qualities do you look for while recruiting law students or young lawyers? 

    Problem solving. How I wish I had preserved Prof. Pillai’s question papers. CGPA may /may not / sometimes / depending / inter alia get you through, but then again, maybe not; yesno?

     

    How do you maintain a work- life balance?

    I look to squeeze the last drop of fun from out of every waking second, of every of minute of every hour. Rest of the time I sleep as long and as fast as my baby daughter. So far this has worked perfectly. This is more than a good bargain / balance / whatever this “work- life balance” thing be – at my age, I accept this with gratitude.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Experience is a comb nature provides you with once you are bald. I am.