We ask this question to almost everyone, but ma’am looking at your experiences, I would like to flip it a little bit, how did law choose you?
I come from a family of lawyers, judges, and professors. I think ‘law’ chose me before I was even born. From an early age, I used to sit with my grandfather and used to observe the trials he used to preside over. Also, during my studies in history in my undergraduate course, I realized how a society’s nature is modeled and governed by the legal system that it has. This realization got me interested in exploring law as a professional carrier for myself. The campus law Center, university of Delhi helped me understand law and brush up on my legal and oratory skills.
What were the struggles you faced in the beginning?
By ‘beginning’ I believe you mean the beginning of my legal career. I think the biggest struggle is coping with the rigorous work routine and keeping on doing what you like the most. I was always passionate about teaching, so along with my practice, I kept on teaching at Delhi University, IP University, Bennet University, and Sewa Samarpan Samiti, which is an NGO based in India. I think this helped me pursue my dream with passion.
Firstly, a big congratulations on starting “Accords International”. Do you mind sharing some obstacles that might come in the way of being a founder at any firm?
You know I have started to believe in what Elon Musk once said, “starting a company is like eating glass and staring into the abyss”. It is a difficult task to build a company, run it, and earn profits with it. My biggest challenge was to find like-minded people to work with and constitute a team that creates a conducive environment. I have been fortunate to finally find an amazing group of team members. I am liking every bit of it. No doubt you are wearing a crown of thorns, but you are your own boss. Accords International works in mediation and restorative justice. Both these fields are new to India and clients and colleagues are still learning. We provide mediation and restorative services and training regularly.
When we talk about disputes, most of the time obviously the parties commit the same number of mistakes, and both suffer as well, before even going for conflict resolution, don’t you think there is something out before that?
In the event of a disagreement, it is often that the situation escalates to a conflict and then the parties take the matter to the court as a dispute. If the lawyers and other professionals who advise the parties during the initial stages have a non-adversarial mindset, then disputes can be avoided, and disagreements can be amicably settled at very early stages. This is beneficial for all, the clients, the lawyers, the courts, and the society.
As someone who has also specialized in cybercrimes, bullying, etc, what are the core reasons that these things happen and any unconventional ways to stop the harm?
Dan Olweus defines simple bullying as ‘unwanted aggressive behavior that is intentional and that involves an imbalance of power. Most often it is repeated over time. If this is done via an electronic device, then that makes sit cyber-bullying.
The four Elements of Bullying are- Aggressive Behavior, Power Imbalance, Repeated act, and the players (Perpetrator and victim). If we add a computer, cell phone, and any other electronic device to traditional bullying that will make it cyberbullying.
The common types of cyberbullying and their reasons are:
Exclusion- Publicly Ostracizing the target from the online world- Possible reason is to make the target vulnerable and lonely.
Flaming- posting personal insults and vulgar texts- possible reasons are power play and intent to humiliate the target.
Impersonation- pretending to be someone else. – possible reason can be entertainment or fraud
Cyberstalking- using the internet and technology to follow someone- (harassment, stalking, revenge, fascination, show-off)
Trolling- to deliberately provoke others- (attention seeking, revenge, boredom, personal amusement, paid by someone else)
Accords International is working on a model for dealing with cyberbullying and online harm with the help of restorative justice. Teachers, parents, and school management can use restorative practices like regular restorative circles and non-violent communications to de-escalate conflicts at early stages.
What are the necessary skills to have as a “Trained Mediator”?
As a mediator, one learns
To facilitate a conversation between two disputing parties.
To be objective,
To be impartial,
To be an effective communicator,
To feel empathetic, patient, adaptable,
To be trustworthy,
To understand the psychology of conflict,
To be able to distinguish interests and needs and
To become a better negotiator.
“Unconventional careers in law will spoil your degree”, why has this misconception led many people far away from the legal industry revolution and how to excel oneself to reach heights?
I think this advice worked in the previous century. Today, we live in a world where lawyers are working in tech policy, AI, cyberspace, Outer space, public policy, sustainability, diplomacy, and many other ‘unconventional’ fields. I think law teachers and colleges should update their curriculum on a regular basis and students should not only be exposed to court proceedings but also to the newer developments around the world. Accords International is working with the vision to make such experiences available to Indian students.
Lastly Upasana, any advice to level up the skill game in this profession?
I find reading is very important for lawyers to always keep updated and informed. Also, skill-building courses in mediation, drafting, negotiation, tech policy, etc are important to learn about new fields. Accords International has launched its next mediation training for the months of January-February 2023. Training programs like this keep young professionals updated and connected.
Tell us about yourself and what inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?
I am born and brought up in Delhi. Despite being amongst the toppers in my school, I was not sure what I wanted to pursue professionally. I took up Biology with Maths in XIIth in order to keep my options open. After passing out of school, still unsure of what I wanted to do, I zeroed in on studying Business Administration on a whim, as I did not want to pursue medicine or engineering, which was the most opted for career option back then.
It was during graduation days that I discovered my love for law when I was introduced to Business Laws as a subject. I also realized then that my natural personality traits were aligned with being a lawyer, when I used my skills to negotiate and convince my Professors and HODs to help my friends who ran into trouble with them for multiple reasons.
Of course, being amongst the good books of my teachers helped to a certain extent in that.
This naturally progressed into me opting for law when I cracked Delhi University’s entrance exam and studied law in the prestigious Campus Law Centre. Thereafter, I was a practising lawyer for a few years before I chose to move In-House with a Company.
During my very enriching stint as a first-generation lawyer, where apart from handling cases for individuals, I also got to work closely with several Companies while handling their litigations and arbitrations, I got fascinated by the multi-faceted workings of a Company and the various factors that played part in assisting the top-management take crucial business decisions.
This piqued my interest in corporate law, and life came a full circle when Business Laws subject in BBA helped me discover my inclination towards law, and after practising law and building my base in understanding the workings of a court, I moved In-House.
What are some of the most challenging aspects of your job as an In-House Counsel?
Law is a demanding profession, and whether you are a practising lawyer or an In-House Counsel, every day comes with new challenges, and with each challenge, comes a new opportunity. To pin-point the most challenging aspects would be difficult, as every day is different.
The job is to assist the Company in all legal affairs, and it can involve anything and everything under the Sun.
A regular day as an In-House counsel involves a wide spectrum of activities ranging from handling aspects of general corporate advisory, looking after the litigations of the Company, interacting with external lawyers for the same, attending matters, drafting and red-lining of pleadings and agreements, negotiating on closing deals for the Company, briefing senior counsels, interacting with several departments for assisting them in dealing with regular operational issues and commercial transactions, and so on and so forth.
Simply put, the challenge is to align business objectives with the legal standpoint to the best benefit of the stakeholders, both internal and external, but that is also where the fun lies.
What strategies do you use to stay abreast of legal developments in the corporate world?
Frankly, I found it easier to stay abreast of the latest developments in law when I was a practising lawyer, as daily interactions with colleagues outside Courtrooms while waiting on matters to reach would organically help in exchanging new information.
I did not realize the importance of relevant information just coming to you without you making conscious efforts towards the same. It is a tad bit tougher for an In-house counsel and it requires conscious efforts to stay abreast with the new developments, both in the dynamics of law and business.
My learnings from my practise days is what works for me in staying aware of the new developments in the corporate world.
Just that my casual chats with my colleagues outside courtrooms is now replaced with interactions with my colleagues from various departments of the Company, who enlighten me with their knowledge and new developments in their respective fields, and collectively, that gives me a bird’s-eye view of developments in the corporate world.
Thereafter, my curiosity about the new information pushes me to read extensively on the new developments from a legal standpoint, and as a legal professional, the research skills acquired during my internship and practice days help a great extent in gathering the relevant knowledge.
Now we are all surrounded by legal tech tools that help in contract drafting and in so many other forms as well, how do you see these tools changing the world of lawyers? What do you think the future of corporate law when AI and the role of legal tech is added on as well?
These tools are contributing a huge deal in reducing the burden on lawyers. The contract drafting tech tools save up on a lot of time by giving a format to start with. The same, of-course, has to be worked on to suit the specific needs and requirements of the business, and in my view, the legal expertise in doing so cannot be replaced by the Artificial Intelligence behind these tools.
Besides contract drafting tech tools, there are several other tech tools that help manage the MIS of the multiple litigation’s in a Company and helps In-House counsel in keeping a track of the matters. These tech tools also help in providing data for analyzing the reports for strategizing plans and actions of handling various matters. I see these tools as very important helping hands in assisting lawyers and In-House counsels to work in a more effective and efficient manner.
What do you consider to be the most important skill for a successful In-House Counsel, and any roadmaps for the same?
I am still learning new skills every day, and I think the quest to keep learning is the most important skill for a successful legal professional, whether In-House Counsel or a practising lawyer.
Apart from that, what I have learnt till now is that it is important to put your thoughts into actions. As lawyers, we develop the skill to formulate multiple strategies and plan of actions, but it is crucial to execute the plans in a timely manner to suit the needs of a fast-paced environment of a Company. I feel there is no fixed roadmap for the same, and all ways to achieve the same are the right ways, given one is consistent, conscientious, and persistent towards it.
Harsha, what do you consider to be the most rewarding part of your job?
I consider the contentment I derive after a good day’s work where I feel that I contributed towards meeting the Company’s objectives and assisting the various business functions in taking important business decisions, as the most rewarding part of my job.
Lastly, any 4 pieces of advice for our young law generation.
Law is an intellectually rewarding field and is an extremely demanding one as well. It is important to understand that in this field, knowledge is power, and the learning is never-ending.
A few of my learnings that I would like to share for young professionals:
Go to Courts. I know Corporate Law has been glamorized enough with the multiple perks it comes with as compared to the challenges one faces as a practising lawyer, but I cannot stress enough on knowing the basic functioning of courts before joining a Company as an In-House counsel. The courts are where all the action is, and the learnings you gather there will help you in the longer run. Once you know the drill, you would not be taken for a ride by others, and you would be a better asset to the Company. Your initial few years as a practising lawyer would also give you clarity on which industry appeals to you.
Take responsibility. That’s the way you learn at the beginning of your career. There could be days when you could not present your case before court, because the clerk did not reach on time with the file, or any such fiasco. It helps to internalize the situation instead of pushing the blame on others. Analyse what you could have done better to avoid the situation, learn, and not repeat in future. Pushing on the blame or justifying yourself before your senior would only stagnate your individual growth, while taking complete responsibility would make you adept at better handling such practical problems that you may face.
Don’t be afraid to fail. A cliché, but your failures will teach you more than your successes.
While we are students, exams are held once or twice annually, but once you are a professional, every day is an exam, minus the syllabus. So brace yourselves for the challenges, and have fun while at it.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?
Hi, I am Ashirbad, and I am currently a Lecturer at O P Jindal Global University. I love to paint and sketch. You would always find me humming to Sufi music or Eminem, there is no in between. I have a black belt in karate, I used to run 10Ks during my Masters, and most of my free time during the work week is spent watching Instagram reels about puppies, or NFL and UFC matches. And, when I have vacations, I backpack across remote but picturesque destinations.
Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law after your Class 12 Boards?
Didn’t really have much of a choice. I was a PCMB student during my 11th and 12th. It was not my cup of tea. I had a disastrous JEE and AIPMT. The only option that I had was CLAT. AIPMT ended on 3rd May, CLAT was on 10th May. I prepared what I could within that and showed up for the exam. Quite fortunately, things have been on a upward trajectory ever since.
Tell us a little about your days in NLU Odisha?
I had the time of my life in NLUO. When I joined there really were no campus placements, only a few batches had graduated, no one really gave us guys a shot. So, we as the students, had to build up a fair bit of the institution that it has become, ourselves. Beyond the professional or academic front, I met my closest friends there, I am very fortunate that the friends I had in first year of law school, are still my friends.
I learnt karate from Akshay, who used to live in the room next to me. I learnt how to write papers from some of my seniors there. Vegadarshi taught me a lot about how to be a Speaker for a moot. More than anything, everyday was a laugh riot in the place. I wouldn’t trade those days for anything
How did you narrow down on NLU Odisha specifically to pursue your undergraduate legal studies?
Again, didn’t really have much of a choice. I got through to TNNLS in the third round of CLAT counselling. Two and a half months later, there was a vacancy at NLUO, I applied and got through. The first two months were ludicrously challenging. I was the last guy in, I had joined after the mid-sems had gotten over, I had no clue what to do. Fortunately, I persisted, and things worked themselves out. I often say that the greatest things in my life have happened to me by accident, CLAT, NLUO, my friends, St Catharine’s, and they have had the best impact on me.
What were the activities, academic or otherwise, that you undertook in your law school days which in your opinion have shaped you and your career?
Plenty of them. I had a finger in every pie. From college committees, to moots, to papers, conferences, academics, debates, MUNS, I was involved with everything. I am generally quite outgoing, and I made full use of whatever avenues NLUO offered. It went beyond just building a career, and the academic knowledge I gained from them.
I have always prided on being able to don multiple hats at the same time and juggle multiple things successfully. They have proved to be quite beneficial in life, in general. I knew everyone on campus from the Vice Chancellor to the guards manning the gate.
Quite fortunately, they all got to know pretty well. That kind of connection is invaluable. It teaches you a lot about fostering and maintaining relationships with people from all walks of life and being a reliable person for them.
I am particularly proud of the work that I did as the Co-Convenor the College’s Internship Committee, along with Mridul, my Convenor. We lead a team of 10 students, and in our time span, we broke the record of the number of internships that NLUO had ever obtained in a calendar year by a wide margin. We took the total from 4 in the previous year to 59 in our term.
What kind of internships did you engage in during your undergraduate student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?
I interned at mostly data protection and general corporate teams of law firms. The most significant of them would be the two stints I had at Khaitan & Co, Kolkata, in the Corp A team with Mr Supratim Chakraborty. I had a blast working with him. I learnt so much from him, Shourya Da, Risa, Pratik Sir and a whole host of other people. I have really good memories of my time there.
You had been an all rounder in NLU Odisha, because of which you were bestowed with the ‘Shri Bichitrananda Mahanty Gold Medal’. How did you manage your academics, co-curricular and extra-curricular activities at the same time?
I used every available minute that I had, and I was as efficient I could be. It was a constant drive to be the very best version of myself. I was always occupied with something or the other. And I enjoyed doing it. No one forced me to do those things, I have always been naturally inclined to set high goals and see if I can achieve them. Being engaged in so many things also kept me focused and on track. That and an aptitude to work hard. There is no substitute for the latter. In a way, it was preparation for the future, beyond the limitations of law school. That being said, it was not all work though, I made sure to have enough time to kick back and relax with my friends.
You had been National Winner and Octa-Finalist of several Indian and International Moot Court Competition. Kindly share your experience as a successful mooter of NLU Odisha.
I have only done two moots the Oxford Price Media Moot Court and NUJS HSF Moot Court. Quite fortunately I performed well in them both. Price Media 2018 was the first moot that I ever did, and I spent a year working on it. Within that time span, I did not pick up any other assignment or co-curricular activity. We managed to reach the Octa-Finals of the World Rounds and were also adjudged as the Runners-up of the South Asian Rounds. We were the first team from NLUO to qualify for the Worlds in that competition.
The next year, I took part in HSF, and it was a month of pure sleeplessness. It had some of the most thrilling rounds I have ever been a part of, and we were adjudged as the Winners of the competition.
Again, we were the first team from our college to win the competition. Of course, along the way for both the competitions we received a tremendous amount of support from friends, alumni and college resources. The only thing I had in mind while preparing for Price Media was to be the very best Speaker I could possibly be, I had always been a debater and never a moot court Speaker, so the transition had some growing pains.
The secret sauce for success in a moot is to form a team with people you are comfortable working with. That, and a tremendous amount of hard work and sacrifice.
You had an accomplished record of publishing at renowned journals from publishers like Thomson Reuters, Eastern Book Company, Wolters Kluwer and famous dailies like that of The Indian Express, The Daily Guardian, The Statesman, Deccan Herald, just to name a few. Kindly share your experience of writing papers and articles for the journals and dailies.
I have always liked to write, so I expanded upon that in law school. I started off with nascent steps, publishing in online blogs and journals, until I garnered enough experience that I felt I could write for reputed publishers. Newspaper articles are always fun, as they are short, precise and reach a much larger audience.
The books or articles that I have published with the aforementioned publishers, were based on strenuous academic research, structured in a manner that was scholarly to merit publication, but, at the same time engaging enough to keep the reader hooked. I co-authored several articles with my Registrar at NLUO, Professor (Dr) Yogesh Pratap Singh, and, it was always a joy to write with him.
How important is it for the law students to write research papers while being at the law school?
It is definitely helpful, but, there is no hard and fast requirement as such. I have often heard stuff like publishing one article in a journal is equivalent to taking part in a moot. That is simply not true. These activities teach you different skills, and a lot depends on the quality of the paper and the journal it is being published in, which is the same as the quality of a moot court and your position in the competition.
A research paper would not only give you in-depth knowledge about the topic, but also streamline the manner in which you think and present your thoughts. A useful skill for a lawyer, for sure.
You had been a student researcher of important projects of NLU Odisha, won accolades in debate competitions, youth parliaments and MUNs’. How relevant do you believe are those achievements in your success story, so far?
Very relevant. I started off with MUNs. It laid the foundation for everything else that was to follow. As regards debates, I have been doing that since my childhood days. Debates taught me to think on my feet and marshal my arguments in a systematic and convincing manner. Debates also had a tremendous role to play in eliminating stage fright for me, and to be an engaging public speaker. My time
Between the time of your graduation and your post-graduation, you had briefly worked in a renowned law firm at their Gurgaon office. Kindly share your experience of working there in the role in the intervening period between your LL.B. and LL.M.
I was associated with the General Corporate team of JSA Gurgaon for the period between my undergraduate and my Masters. It was a great experience, and I learnt a lot about transactions. The responsibilities that you are entrusted with at the beginning are immense, and you have to adapt to the needs of the clients with alacrity. It was quite an enriching experience overall.
What prompted you to opt for LL.M. from University of Cambridge within a year of completing your BA. LL.B. from a renowned National Law University?
I always knew that I wanted to do a Masters, right from my first day of law school. And I was dead set on two places: Oxford and Cambridge. No other place ever held that charm for me. I wanted to study in a place which had history dating back to centuries, ensconced amongst picturesque medieval architecture and surrounded by the best minds in the world. Safe to say that I found that and much more at Cambridge.
How relevant would you say higher studies are for a career in law, be it working in law firms / companies or pursuing an academic career?
Its subjective. People do a LLM for various reasons. Some do it to satisfy their academic curiosity, others to transition into a foreign workforce, a few people I knew did a LLM as a break from their work. But, you do learn a lot during the year you spend studying for the program. Living in a different country, finding your feet amongst new friends and in a new culture teaches you a lot about yourself, and forces you to adapt to challenges. It opens your eyes to how people from different parts of the world live and the stories that they carry with them.
For an academic career, a LLM is always a big bonus. For law firms, I cannot offer an adequate comment. At the very least, the year you spend for your LLM, if it is at a sufficiently good University, is a year in which you gain a lot of knowledge, so its always a win-win.
What does the CV of a student seeking admission in a premier university offering an LL.M program have to look like? What are the factors you feel are looked into and what are the activities that the assessors regard favourably?
At the top of the list are your marks. To get into Oxbridge or relatively similar places, you need a good enough batch rank and marks. There is no substitute for that. Apart from it, excellence in a particular field is very helpful.
If your CV can demonstrate that you have a certain level of expertise in a particular area of law, you have worked on it extensively, and you are aiming to pursue your Masters in that particular area itself, it helps establish you as a strong candidate for the program. Apart from that, everyone’s CV is different. There is no hard and fast requirements as such.
You had been the Co-President of MCR (Postgraduate student body) Committee at St Catharine’s College for the Academic Year 2021 – 2022. How was your experience of leading a student body, that too outside the country?
It was incredible. I was admitted to St Catharine’s College at Cambridge and the college had elections for the position of the Co-President of the MCR Committee. I ran against a PhD candidate and was elected. As an Indian, being elected as the head of a British College was surreal keeping in mind the positions Indians had had in the British empire barely a hundred years ago or so.
The weight of it all was not lost on me. It was a tremendous amount of responsibility though, almost like a full time job. But, it gave a great opportunity to meet people from different streams: medicine, the sciences, humanities, finance, business; and also to work with the college authorities, and help them all in whatever issues that they had. It was truly a humbling experience.
You had been a gold medallist at NLU Odisha for Public International Law. Despite your command over the subject, what prompted you go for an LL.M. in Corporate Law?
I always wanted to work in Data Protection inter-mixed with commercial law. So, most of my internships and activities were geared on that front. I loved studying PIL in NLUO, primarily because of my Professor, Ananya Ma’am, who made the entire subject extremely engrossing. The fact that I got a medal in the subject, gives me immense joy, but my career trajectory has always been centred around commercial and technology laws.
Please share with our readers how did you narrow down on University of Cambridge for pursuing your LL.M. on Commercial Law along-with data-protection laws as your additional specialisation;
I have mentioned briefly earlier about my desire to study at Oxbridge. Of the two, Cambridge became an obvious choice because of Professor David Erdos, who teaches the module of Law and Information at Cambridge. He also heads CIPIL, which has done some remarkable work on European Data Protection Law. I knew I wanted to study from him, so, it was quite easy for me to decide to opt for Cambridge.
You went to Cambridge on full scholarship. You have been a recipient of three scholarships – Prathiba M Singh Cambridge Trust Scholarship (through Cambridge Trust), J N Tata Endowment for Higher Education of Indians Abroad (through TATA Trusts), Kemp-Gooderson Law Award and other Bursary funds (through St Catharine’s College, University of Cambridge). What is the secret of securing three prestigious scholarship at the same point of time for pursuing your LL.M.?
All of these scholarships are merit-cum-means based, implying that they need a certain calibre of academic standard, and the candidate ought to be in need for financial resources to fund their LLM. I had one objective in mind upon conclusion of my undergraduate program, which was to not ask my family for any funding. And I have been quite fortunate to have achieved that through the cumulative financial commitments of these scholarships. There is no secret as such. Just know your area of law well, be confident, honest and straightforward in the interviews.
Please share your experience of applying at University of Cambridge and for the scholarships, you had secured. Kindly share your experience of the application process for the LL.M. and the scholarships.
It was a bit stressful. Balancing a firm job, along with applications is a tall order. I had prepared a table with the last dates for applications of various scholarships along with their required documents. That helped me keep things on track. I had also reached out to my referees well in advance, so, that helped in avoiding any last minute hiccups regarding letters of recommendation and as such.
My one tip would be, research the Universities you want to get into well in advance, ensure that you have your transcripts and references prepared, and know yourself well for writing the statements of purpose.
In the year 2022, just after completing your LL.M. from the University of Cambridge you have joined Jindal Global Law School, Sonipat as a Lecturer. What prompted you to take the plunge in the field of academics?
A: I have always liked academia, being surrounded by young, bright minds. It is always good to give back to the next generation of students. When I was in Cambridge, Jindal came for recruitment, I applied and got through, and here I am. I am still at an early stage of my career, so, lets see where I end up in the next few years-academia, firm, an organisation, or somewhere else.
Back in your student years, did you ever see yourself becoming an instructor at a prestigious law school, sometime in the future? What did it take to get here?
Absolutely. In fact I used to teach my batchmates prior to every examination. The night before each exam, there would be an assembly of boys in the Boys Hostel in front of my room, and I would teach them whatever limited things I had read myself. These classes became known in NLUO as ‘Ashirbad classes’, and in fact in my final year, some of my batchmates put up a poster titled ‘Ashirbad Classes’ all around the campus. That was the foundation of my career in academia. So, I knew I had a future in academia for sure.
Give us a brief capsule of the life of a lecturer in a prestigious law school.
A: Its an engaging day, comprising of classes and research. It is an important responsibility to instruct students, so, you always have to be prepared for the classes. Apart from that it is always good to be in a University set up where things are quite organised and orderly.
How is your experience of working with Jindal Global Law School’s legendary instructor, Professor. Arjya B. Majumdar?
I have learnt so much from Professor Majumdar. He is pioneer of when it comes to teaching commercial law. I cannot describe accurately how much I have enjoyed working with him at Jindal. Apart from being a great educator, he is also an incredible guy. I have sought his advice on quite a few things, and they have always been eye-opening.
How important are grades, in your opinion, for a student to be eligible for employment, be it in academia or in top tier law firms?
Quite important. Never mess them up. Grades show one important thing- consistency. And that is an invaluable quality that every employer of institution looks for in a prospective candidate. So, be sure to keep them on track.
If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point?
Nothing. Not a single thing.
Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?
Do everything that you want to do. Set high dreams and demand the highest standards of excellence from yourself. There is nothing quite like regret, so make sure that when you look back on your life, you don’t have regrets about anything.
And always remember these lines “Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit, it’s when things go wrong that you must not quit.”
Being a science student, and then choosing law, what was the idea behind?
Though I was doing good in science, however somehow, I was not interested in pursuing a career in science and therefore, was looking for options. During this time, my family suggested me to go for a career in law and when I started preparing for entrance exams of different law schools (as we did not have CLAT back then) – it really fascinated me. I started reading about famous lawyers in India and also visited the lower Court in my city, the idea of wearing that collar band and arguing in Court used to give me goosebumps.
At was during this time that I firmly took a call to make a career and practice law.
How challenging has it been for you so far in the legal industry?
It has been a very satisfactory journey so far. I was able to clear the entrance exam of two National Law Universities and two reputation private universities and decided to join HNLU, Raipur. I joined the third batch of HNLU, Raipur in 2004 and was fortunate to have been taught by some of the best faculties at the time. My five year stay at HNLU was both memorable and enlightening at the same time.
The strict time lines to submit projects and moot court memorials gave me an early introduction of how the legal profession going to be and worked as a solid foundation for later part of my career.
I joined an IP boutique firm ZuesIP immediately after completing my course and thereafter, my joined current firm Rahul Chaudhry & Partners in 2010.
My firm and my mentor Mr. Rahul Chaudhry, the Managing Partner of the firm have immensely helped me become the professional I am today. I started as a junior associate in the firm and slowly learned the nuances of IP and law in general. I was designed as Partner – IP Enforcement in 2021 and handles IP Enforcement before the Courts in India, Domain Name as well as Custom Authorities.
What created your interest in the IP sector? And how did you prepare yourself for everyday challenges in the same?
My initial interest in IPR started when we were taught IPR in the second and third years of our law course. The idea of knowing, protecting as well as helping the brands grow attracted me and I decided to intern with IP Firms to better understand the subject. I learned the intricacies of IP as a subject and practical aspects of implementing the same in day-to-day legal practice during these internships.
Accordingly, I opted for IPR as my honours subject in the university and got a specialization in the same.
Preparing myself to practice IPR was not a challenge for me as I had a keen interest in the subject. I used to go through all major IP judgments by the Courts to keep myself updated of the latest developments and still try to read as much as I can whenever the schedule permits.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first generation lawyers specifically in corporate?
Being a first generation lawyer myself, I have never felt any difference in terms of treatment by law firms or corporates. If you have knowledge of the subject and good command over language – you are bound to be noticed. The age old saying that there is no substitute to hard work is absolutely correct. I am a strong supporter of making your work speaks for yourself. If you are getting reliefs for your clients and are being recommended for your work – the world will look for you.
At the same time, I would suggest one to leverage technology, join industry groups in person or through various social media like LinkedIn and also offer educational resources. Give presentations and educational lectures in various industry gatherings as well as educational institutions.
What are the most important qualities for an intellectual property lawyer?
An IP lawyer needs to keep himself updated with latest judgments and industry practices. With the creation of IP Divisions in the Courts, IP has become even more niche practice. Going through PTC on a regular basis and keeping a track of prosecution practice is also very important. I always suggest that to be a successful IP lawyer, one should have a good command over prosecution side as the same forms the foundation of one’s IP practice.
How a trade mark application is filed, the route it takes for registration and how to overcome the objections raised by the Administrative Authorities (like Trade Marks Registry) are all very important. A wrong advice to the client during prosecution and registration procedure can ruin all future prospects of protecting and enforcing the mark.
Zeeshan, do these legal tech tools have helped litigants and corporates so far in preparation of different documents or filing and what in the future would be challenges for lawyers in dealing with such tools?
The tech tools are indeed helpful and I see them playing a greater role in future. Along with saving time, the tools also minimise the chances of an error. Many corporates have started using them to keep a track of their matters pending in the Courts, checking the deadlines and even setting reminders to ensure that no deadlines are being missed. As we all know, deadlines play very important role in our profession.
The time frame provided by the statues to file pleadings/documents before Courts as well as various administrative authorities are to be strictly followed, specially in IP prosecution. Hence, I believe the tech tools are going to be a game changer in future. With respect to the challenges, I believe the new generation of lawyers will not have any difficulty in handling these tools. I suggest even law schools should start preparing the students to use these tools during their course.
As a partner of a law firm, how do you manage to balance the work-life aspect?
Work-life balance is very important to ensure a long-term efficiency in work and a satisfaction in your personal life. My day usually starts at 9 am in the office and then few hours are spent in the Court as well. Being a partner, I also try spending sometime with my team members to interact and discuss work and the general life related aspects. However, one needs to prioritise the work and maintain a discipline during the working hours.
I am a strong supporter of not carrying the work related stress to home and spend my away time playing with my daughter as well as working out. It is equally important to take care of your health and therefore, I have made it a routine to work out for atleast an hour every morning.
The same not only helps me stay strong physically but also strengths my mind and helps me to prepare myself for the day.
Lastly, any advice for our young law generation?
Legal field requires continuous study and keeping yourself updated of the latest developments. So, it is very important to make an early habit of reading latest judgments as well as precedents. Young lawyers should also visit Courts and hear established legal practitioners argue the cases in Court.
What prompted you to choose legal studies, post your Class 12 Boards, when you had the option to study architecture in a reputed government college?
Long story short, from the beginning itself I had been looking forward to doing something different in the governing system. I had also wanted to break the family’s custom of pursuing engineering studies, if you are being born as a boy. If one wants to work in the managing system, there are only two domains where you can start working from – while the first is Management, the other one is being law. And law is a kind of subject, which starts where management ends. Further, since inception of the universe, it has been governed by law. So, I chose law in order to fulfil my aspiration of doing things differently from the usual course. As I say, once you are a lawyer, you are not jack of all trade, but master of all trade.
Having studied your undergraduate legal studies from Amity Law School, Jaipur, Rajasthan, what were the challenges faced by you?
I think you need to first ask me why Amity Law School Jaipur. During my time, from the group of faculties, four of them were stalwarts in their subjects who happened to teach me during my course of five years of law school, helped and backed me a lot. Those were the faculties who knew their subject inside out and used to deliver lectures at global conferences on a daily basis. The faculties of the college made me interested about Amity Law School Jaipur.
Being from a traditional Bengali family with humble sports background, who has got more knowledge about engineering and medical colleges, they had no knowledge about what 5-year professional law course or law school entails. For my family, every lawyer sits below a banyan tree with a typewriter, as are shown in the typical Bollywood movies. The circa was 2012, when internet penetration was very low, and information was not very easily accessible. Therefore, having no knowledge of CLAT, I relied on two things to choose my college.
As I mentioned above, faculty was one of the reasons, the other being a little funny – it was the Indian Premier League. Amity was one of the sponsors of Mahendra Singh Dhoni and the use of the logo Amity University in his bat and the Rajasthan Royals team, intrigued me into joining the law school, to pursue my five years of legal studies. Additionally, myself being an avid sportsperson, the seemingly world class sporting facilities at Amity Jaipur made me more interested to join.
After getting inside, there were lots of challenges. The timing of the library was one major concern. We used to have two libraries – one law school library and the other one was the central library.
Central library used to operate from 9 AM to 8 PM. And the law school library timing was from 9 AM to 5 PM, which means resource was not easily accessible. If, one compares that to the libraries of one of the most reputed global law schools of the country with Institution of Eminence tag, where faculties have connections with many reputed organizations in backing their students, to pursue research and internship, Amity Law School Jaipur was nothing at that point of time.
I still remember when I got my internship at IIFT (WTO Studies) and Indian Oil, it was the walk of a lonely road for me, with my shadow being the only companion. So, one may easily comprehend how tough my journey was.
What prompted you to opt for pursuing Masters of Law in Energy Law from UPES, Dehradun?
Well, while planning for doing my masters in India, I was not looking for Masters in Energy Law, it was International Trade Law which I was looking forward to specialize in. Being a sports-person, I always had a keen interest from the beginning in the domain of Sports Law and wanted to make it a strong base along with International Law.
Unlike the European Universities, which offers much flexibility to its admitted students to study and research in only in the subjects chosen for the specialisation, most Indian Universities are very inflexible.
In Indian LL.M.’s you start with some basic subjects like Legal Research Methodology and so on, and then later on towards the second half of your course, i.e., the second semester, you get your subject in which you want to pursue your masters. But this is where there was a tweak in the story.
When I was about to start my final semester at UPES Dehradun, I was informed by the University authority abruptly, that since I am the only student who had opted for the subject, they cannot provide me the same, and I have got to choose between the Corporate Law, Cyber Law and Energy Law specialisation. Hearing this I had initially decided to leave the college.
However in these testing times, my parents and two elderly professor were the ones who had supported and motivated me by suggesting that since you have spent six month, leaving the college without taking the degree, would lead to wasting of your time only. Per their advice, I continued my LL.M. in Energy Laws from UPES, with the aim of specialising in the niche domain of Energy law and that is how I got my masters in Energy Law, as there is a saying “Knowledge never goes in vain.”
When I compare my experience as a student in Indian Universities, with that of where I am employed, I can realize how stark the difference is in between them, and this is the difference which makes all the difference in the students studying in them.
Were you always bent on pursuing an academic career post completion of legal studies? How did you prepare yourself for the same?
I had not always harboured in my mind for an academic career post completion of legal studies but yes at certain corner of my mind, I had wished myself to see as an instructor. We, Indians are always complaining toward the law society that Sports Law is a niche area and that we need to work on it to make it more mainstream.
Many people also say that we need the future of the country in the Sports Law in India; but how if you asked, people will be saying it is tough to answer. Now if you look at the countries like United Kingdom, you will see how sports law is an important and developed subject, also even smaller countries like New Zealand, Croatia, Ghana etc. have a proper developed knowledge of sports and education related to it, with young lawyers supporting it.
While doing this research, it made me realize that young and future lawyers are created, only if one can share the knowledge with the future of the country i.e. the “students”.
The only way you can inspire the future and make the world a better place if you reach out to the students, and the only way a person may do so is by joining the academics. Therefore, I joined the academic side, so we can have large number of budding lawyers. Further if you say that you want to join the academics, I will suggest one should love one particular subject and gives his full dedication to it by research and publishing.
If someone is interested in an academic career in law, how would you advise the concerned professional to work towards that goal?
Well, there is only one thing I will advise them – you need to dedicate yourself toward one particular subject as your major, then try to master it by researching and publishing as much as you can.
You had been an avid sportsperson right from your school days, what prompted you to choose a career in sports law over and above a career as a sportsperson?
To answer this in depth I will provide a little introduction to my family from which I belong. See, sports run in my veins. My mom used to be a state-level cricket player and my father used to be a football referee. So one can say that I have seen sports as an activity very closely, and it has made me also attracted to sporting activity. I still remember that I used to practise cricket every weekend and football every weekday back in my childhood days.
But later part of my life, I have concentrated on football only, in which I played for Sports Authority of India Eastern Region. But later on, an injury lead me to stop the practice, but as you know, once you dedicate your love towards sports, you cannot neglect it.
So, I thought if you cannot practise the game on the field, why don’t you practise it differently, as a discipline. I still remember back in 2017/2018 Indian people were unaware about the subject of Sports Law.
There were only very few people who knew about it. Even its in developing phase today, people still get confused with management and law. But sports law has always been active in India. Looking back as far as 4th Century BC, there was a script which has mentioned about the law of games, which in most likely a board game. I researched this topic within my own studies and became aware of how most people were not aware of the existence of sports law, even in today’s society.
Nowadays, as sports law is undergoing its development phase, many new upcoming lawyers want to know about the subject. They complain about the lack of knowledge available as we don’t have that much faculty who have specialisation within the subject. So, I thought, why not take in charge without complaining like most others and start to develop future Sports Lawyers. As soon as I thought this, from that time onwards itself I tried to change my passion into an education degree, so I can create the structure and teach the same to my students.
After this, everything falls in place, and I got an admission call from Nottingham Trent University with an International Scholarship. This in itself came after sacrifice of many nights’ sleep. However, I did the same for the sake of my country and other underprivileged students from around the world, who want to study this subject and can’t be due to family or monetary reason.
Furthermore, there is more to be done for Athletes in India. These individuals suffer a lot due to lack of proper legislation / regulations of sports of any kind. Not only that, the legal system in India still now needs more research as even the Supreme Court sometimes get confused about whether some organisation representing the country will be considered as State or not. There is also a question of whether National Olympic Community will be considered as a supreme governing body or not. So, I just want to dedicate myself as a bridge to fulfil the gaps in my legal and educational systems. This has led to my love of sports developing into a passion for Sports Law
You had completed your Second Master in law (LL.M.) from the prestigious Nottingham Trent University, United Kingdom, with an International Scholarship. Please share your experience starting from application stage for the LL.M., to the scholarship application up to your experience of studying at Nottingham Trent University?
Well, from the beginning it is a smooth running operation compared to many Indian traditional universities, and the university authority will always be in touch with you, for every point of your application to fill the scholarship form.
Now moving toward education system, not only Nottingham Trent University, even all the British Universities has the open and flexible education system, where we can take any subject as elective subject with our law subject, and secondly in Nottingham Trent University particularly, you have one of the famous Sports Law Professor Simon Boyes, who is considered as one of the chief architect for the development of sports law in the world.
Post your LL.M. from Nottingham, you had also briefly worked at one of the prominent Football Clubs in the English Premier League Circuit. Kindly share your experience of working in the same including the work you used to do in the same organisation.
Well see life there is pretty fast and timely, so it was good experience with some commercial experience, but yes if you have habit of hard work and smart work mixer you will enjoy their work culture.
You have undertaken multiple diplomas and certificate courses, more importantly, from the International Olympic Association (IOC Young Leader), FIFA, UEFA. How do you choose courses for the purpose of skill-development?
So there is a saying knowledge is like ocean, even if you try to conquer all, still you can’t, and if you say you have learned everything it means you are only dooming yourself. For me I chose the courses at first for the thirst of the knowledge and secondly according to my student’s need because at the end of the day you are the captain of your crew which are your students.
Despite being someone involved in the development of sports law in India, you have handled assignments of teaching other law subjects at ease and is quite popular amongst your students. What is your secret in being a popular teacher amongst the students?
Thank you for saying so, but I think every student have someone who is favourite to that individual, but if you ask me I will say I always motivate them, try to listen them, collaborate with them; sometime try to empathise with them and treat them with utmost respect as upcoming future buddy lawyers.
Apart from being an Assistant Professor at Jindal Global Law School Sonipat, you are also the Assistant Director at Centre for Sports Law Business and Governance of the law school. Kindly share your experience of working in the same, so far.
It’s a dream for me to work with one of my role model and one of mentor and guru Professor Shaun Star, and really like to work under his leadership as he has taught me many things, and once it was also my dream to learn under him but that is fulfilling in another way under his leadership.
Apart from your role as a Professor, you seem to be a multi-tasker, as you handle multiple roles as an Editor, Author, Guest Lecturer, Editorial & Review Board Member. Kindly share your experience of working in multiple roles at the same point of time.
All I want to say in one sentence I enjoy to work and love to dedicate my time to the subject and development of future generation which is students
What is the recipe of your success in successful multi-tasking, which you believe law students of today should develop?
My tips to all the budding sports lawyer are to first change your passion for sport into love and interest towards the subject as like, you do same with your girlfriend or boyfriend, because subjects are like girlfriend or boyfriend only. How can you be happy if you don’t have interest in her or him? It will lead to break up, but more you are interested in a girl or boy and give him or her time she or he deserves, will give you more love in return, so same is with the subject. You have to have a passion and drive for sports to engage within the study of sports law.
The second and more important tips will be to be curious about every rule and the judgement you come across and think why it has been decided like this or it has been not done in the other way, the more you think more capable you become.
From having been appointed as a visiting faculty of SLS Hyderabad, you have gone a long way on becoming the Indian to be appointed the Ambassador of ISDE Law Business School Spain, a visiting faculty at IIM Rohtak , Research Analyst at Nehginpao Kipgen Centre for Southeast Asian Studies and an Assistant Professor at the Jindal Global Law School.
How do you find this journey in such a short span of time of a little over two years?
Well, Actually in my mind there is a thinking that when I am in this field there are lots of senior faculties who are at first senior to you and secondly they have more experience than you. So, for making it there and to sit on the chair of this assembly, one needs to be humble and spend more of their time in practising as well as sleeping less, because firstly you need to fill the gaps. Additionally, you always need to be one step ahead of them.
Amongst so many achievements in your life, what is that one failure that redefined who you are today?
Well, there is nothing as such. Even if there is, I think I have forgot the same by this time. I always like myself happy and I don’t look at the past or think about the future as you know I live each day and each moment of present as the last day, as you know present is gift to us by time.
Being avid sports personnel and being involved in the development of sports law in India, how effective do you think AI and Legal Tech can be in the meaningful development of the sports law in India?
In the world of IoT and constant change, its always helpful, as it helps to get access to more research document and case list around the world so one does not have any more barrier in the education world.
Lastly, before we end our interview, what piece of advice would you like to give to the law students of today?
I will suggest them, before if you want to win this subject, it’s advisable to first change your passion for subject into love and interest towards the subject, then try to be always humble never let it enter our head.
Secondly always keep in mind law that it is a professional subject, so don’t mug it up without understanding the subject as you know mugging it up means you will be theoretically sounded and top for many, but in court it is always not the same thing, which is mentioned in the book, you need to be practically smart.
Never think about the marks, try to think about grasping more and more into practical view.
And at last I will say them all that, it is your life, try to decorate it on way and try to be honest and listen to heart always. You all are young and will be having competitor whom you treat as enemy, then feel yourself lucky for having enemy as you know that a clever person learn more from his enemy then a fool from his friend.
If any problem comes, always keep in mind that problem is not the problem but problem is your attitude about the problem.
What motivated you to take law as a career and how has been the decision so far?
As all students, I was also confused during my school days as to which profession I should choose. Thereafter, my mom suggested me to take up law in lines of the profession of my father as he has already established a base. I did not qualify CLAT, however, I qualified for UPES, LAWCET and ILS Law College, Pune.
Keeping the long standing reputation and I decided to join ILS Law College, Pune. All throughout my college life, I enjoyed participating in Moot Court competitions. After completing my law, I immediately joined my father’s law firm i.e., THOMAS GEORGE & ASSOCIATES. Thereafter, my mom was instrumental in insisting me to complete my LL.M.
I did LL.M in Constitutional Law from O.U.P.G. College, Basheerbagh and secured a Gold Medal which was a lifetime dream come true. My father has been an amazing mentor as he not only trained me in drafting, filing procedures, clerical works but he also gave me the freedom to take up matters and handle them independently from day one …!
My first appearance itself was arguing a final hearing before the then united Hon’ble Andhra Pradesh High Court of a Criminal Revision Case pertaining to 2008. Ever since then, I have never stopped and I hope to argue many more important cases in the years ahead of my life.
Arguing the law and interpreting the law are two important facets of my litigation life which I will always cherish. So, though law happened by accident, I am happy to go the way it carries me. There is a unique unexplained sense of happiness that, I feel while arguing cases before different judicial and non-judicial fora throughout the country. With all the tremendous pressures that we as advocates undergo, it is only, that joy that I get, after arguing different kinds of matters that keeps me going ahead…!
Your internship experiences are filled with reputed Advocates and Judges, was there any roadmap for the same or all did was in flow? How would you guide students in choosing internships?
As a law student after participating in few moot court competitions, I was inclined towards litigation. My first internship was with my father and mentor who taught me the basic art of advocacy, that includes drafting, filing procedures etc.
Thereafter, I went on to intern with Designated Senior Counsel Late Padmanabha Reddy where I was mesmerised to see sir argue different kinds of matters at length on his legs from 10:30 AM to 04:30 PM…! I would observe, sir argue most complex matters with utmost patience and he was always calm and composed, the most essential art I learnt. Subsequently, I interned with Adv. S. Niranjan Reddy now Designated Senior Counsel/ Member of Parliament, at whose offices I learnt corporate litigation and its nuances.
Thereafter, I had the unique opportunity of working with Honourable Justice Kurian Joseph (Retired), Former Judge Hon’ble Supreme Court of India and while interning with his Lordship, I was able to understand what all goes in the minds of the judges post arguments since, I was also involved in the legal research that would assist judges in arriving at their decisions. I was able to see the judicial process closly that goes on after the arguments and before the judgement is pronounced.
This experience has channelised my arguments in a slightly different manner and I am dedicated His Lordship for imparting this knowledge in me. Thereafter, I had a short stint with late Advocate Lily Thomas who had shown me no matter whatever hurdles and challenges life throws at us one must keep moving. Lastly, in my final year, I interned with Designated Senior Counsel & Hon’ble R. Basant sir Former Kerala High Court Judge. During this internship I received unique lessons of life & law, wherein I learnt how a mentor can treat his associates, juniors and interns with patience & care and at the same time learnt how hard work and dedication plays an important role in the life of an advocate. Students are not always sure as to what kind of an advocate they want to become after graduating, so it is always beneficial to intern at different places where there are variety of matters.
Students should always start their internships with advocates who have a variety of trial court matters. In trial courts, students can learn about procedural laws, they can observe Cross Examinations and trial advocacy skills.
Thereafter, students must intern with advocates practising in the High Courts and then the Supreme Court if possible. After this I would suggest students to intern with different corporate law firms. By the end of their internships, I would say with utmost surety, that, the students will be able to decide their career paths…!
Manav, any specific reason for choosing litigation over corporate, what created your interest in that?
I hope my answer to this question does not create any controversy amongst corporate law practitioners. I do not feel that I am made up for only drafting contracts or due diligence as I like to see the law in motion and that, only happens in the courts of law. In litigation, one see and meets different types of clients with different issues and in pursuing those issues one has to appear before different judicial and non-judicial fora and convince the Honourable Judges on unique points of laws and facts. Litigation requires a unique skill of being able to put forth your points with absolute clarity and conviction.
For the same, one has to be well versed and well abreast with the laws and case laws. In corporate law, there are different nuances of law which are being explored on a day-to-day basis but none of the corporate lawyers are able to see their documents being interpreted in the courts of law. That is why, I choose litigation over corporate law.
However, one must understand that even though I am a litigating lawyer, on a day-to-day basis, I am dealing with various aspects of corporate law which we cannot avoid being a lawyer. Thus, I believe that the so-called difference between a corporate lawyer and a litigating professional is a grey area which cannot be compartmentalised. So, I fix no label to myself….I leave it to the readers to categorise me as any lawyer they feel based on the work I execute.
As lawyers, society depends on us in a lot of situations and pro-bono matters is one of them. How far do you resonate with this?
Society depends on a number of aspects that keeps evolving and law is an important part of this evolving society. The changing needs of the society requires dynamic changes by the practitioners of law. In today’s world where everyone is in the rat race to earn, a lot of poor litigants suffer with inefficient representation as the fees that they can pay is less. I completely believe that in the background of the unique requirements of the society as of today, pro bono matters would definitely assist and help the people in need in a unique and effective manner.
Many a times, I come across poor litigants who are not guided in the right direction due to which they faced unpleasant consequences. In this background all the us at THOMAS GEORGE AND ASSOCIATES believe in helping the really needy clients and when the situation demands we do take up pro bono matters. In criminal matters I observed that the people arrayed as accused in many matters do not have the necessary sources to finance their litigation expenses and tend to seek help from legal aid.
Many a times, legal aid is not providing effective and efficient representation thereby rendering the whole purpose futile. Thus, professionals with experience taking up pro bono matters really helps the litigants in need.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first-generation lawyers specifically in litigation?
The struggles of first-generation lawyers are untold in today’s world. There is no secret mantra that can be told as to the strategies that can be adopted, however, these are a few tools which may come handy in the years to come. Networking is a very important part of litigation which one will understand as they progress in their profession. One must always bear in mind that every person one meets in any walk of life can be one’s prospective client and thus one should interact with people and make them know that one is a practising lawyer.
There is an apt example for the aforementioned statement of mine; once while I was in a club and while I was on the way to the washroom, I met an acquaintance of mine and in a casual conversation made him know that I am practising in Hyderabad. After a year I received a call by this acquaintance who had referred a very big company for coming on board as their retainer. So, one can land up with a client in any place.
Keeping in touch with your alma mater and alumni will also help you in being referred matters from different states pertaining to your jurisdiction. Being active on social media can also help to a certain extent. Giving internships to students, is a way of giving back to the society and in return over the years to come, one will see the benefit from the same. Also, one must always remember that hard work pays off and the reason I say so, is your work must speak for yourself and that in turn would result in receiving the due benefits of networking.
Please elaborate for us your current role
I am currently the Name Partner at THOMAS GEORGE & ASSOCIATES, Hyderabad. The Managing and Founding Partner of the firm is my father, Advocate Thomas George and the Senior Partner is my mother. This being the background of my firm, the positions that we hold really does not matter for us internally. That being said, on a day-to-day basis I appear on various matters before various Judicial and Non-judicial fora throughout India with my base practice in Hyderabad.
My entire day goes in arguing matters before different courts of law and in the evening, I spend my time in preparing for matters listed either on the immediate next day or for the days to come and also meet my clients. I supervise the administrative matters of the firm.
I delegate matters to the juniors/associates at the firm, teach/assign work/cross check the drafts assigned to the Associates/Virtual/Non-virtual interns. I brief the Managing and Founding Partner and Senior Partner of the firm on matters that needs to be argued. I also help my Associates in practising their presentations before the courts scheduled for the next day, so that, they do not face any difficulty.
So far we’ve seen employees being harassed at workplace wrt different situations, how well do you consider the role of employment laws in the same?
It is always beneficial for employees to research about the firm where they seek employment before scheduling any interview. I also think it will be beneficial if one can speak to people who worked in the said place prior to joining. The role of employment laws is not very effective as, the internal committee for any kind of harassment consist of members of the same firm.
Furthermore, if any employee raises a complaint and leaves the organisation the next organisation will always look at this employee with a speck in their eyes and thus there is a fear in employees from making any complaints whatsoever.
How does AI play a significant role in helping lawyers and what are the consequences for the same?
AI is already playing a significant role in lives of lawyers. As on today we can see AI’s tremendous use in research while comparing to our senior generation lawyers. The search engines have been extremely helpful in researching for case laws as well as to know overruled decisions, landmark decisions et cetera. Case management has become very simple with the help of various digital applications that provides the statuses of all the matters of the firm with the click of a button. Dictation and drafting have become 10 times easier than what it was with the usage of the software that types out whatever we dictate with almost 90% perfection.
Another application that I have come across in the recent times is a scanner pen which can be used to copy paste contents from various hard copy of agreements/drafts into the word document. AI will always remain a tool in the hands of a lawyer but can never replace mankind especially lawyers, because, the brain used to interpret law in a unique manner is not AI but it is that unique skill of that lawyer. Furthermore, convincing a judge is done by advocates who present their matters in ways they deem fit which again cannot be substituted by AI. For people who disagree then mankind itself will be overtaken by AI.
There are also applications that are being developed for taking queries from clients through chat boxes and these apps help in consolidating the client consultations to a certain extent. Such client consultations would in a way save the precious time of lawyers. However, how much ever technology advances, if it lacks human touch in the works of a lawyer then I believe there will not be effective representation in those cases.
Manav, we’ve been witnessing students shifting from litigation to corporate or most of the times they dont even take litigation as an option, what can be the reasons for the same?
Personally, I would like to disagree. In the recent years I have seen many students in fact choosing litigation over corporate law firms. The ground reality is that, as on date, there are no vacancies in many chambers as they are already flooded with young students who have just graduated. However, students do prefer a comfortable and stable life with heavy packages which corporate law firms provide and that can be the only reason that students would prefer corporate law firms over litigation.
Once litigating lawyers start paying their juniors at least the amounts that are required for the basic survival in the cities they practice, students will definitely choose litigation. What I have observed in corporate law firms is that due to tremendous burn outs over the period of time people shift back to litigation thereby losing their initial precious years of the experience. Students must understand that litigation is like an investment which grows manifolds.
The life of a corporate lawyer or a judicial officer or a lecturer usually ends upon attaining the age of superannuation, however, the life of an advocate has no age limit and in a lighter note; when all your fellow colleagues are retiring, the practising lawyers start earning even more…!
Lastly, any piece of advice for our young lawyers
Repeating what you would have already heard from various stalwarts in the profession, I would like to say that there are no shortcuts to success.
Hard work, dedication, diligence, perseverance, patience are the keystones to success. We must always remember that success cannot be achieved overnight but it requires tremendous hard work.
Whenever, we see successful professionals, we only tend to see their achievements without knowing the amount of pain, sacrifices, compromise that they had to undergo to reach the place that they are at today.
Having patience will definitely play a great role in reaching those heights of success that are channelled for you. One must always remember to maintain a work – life balance which everyone has been talking about in the recent times. One must take time off work, spend time with family and friends as well, which are very important.
I always tell my hardworking interns not to forget to chill in life. All the best!!!
What motivated you to make a career in law? How would you describe your professional journey up until now?
I would say that studying law was a natural choice for me, and I find nothing that is more interesting, captivating and easier for me than law. Having studied law for the last 8-9 years of my life, I can confidently say that choosing law as my career has been the best decision of my life to date and I have never found laws to be complicated as such but just pure common sense.
If you believe in what you are doing, then you will find your work to be interesting; as it has been rightly said by Steve Jobs that ‘…Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven’t found it yet, keep looking….’
As far as my professional journey is concerned, I would say that I had to work very hard to understand the nitty-gritty of the laws, court procedures, principles of legal drafting, the art of advocacy, the jurisdiction of courts/tribunals etc. One has to work hard initially to understand the laws but it gets easier with time once you know the basics.
You have excelled in your academics throughout your career and also were a rank holder in your LLB and Graduation. What would you say were the factors that helped you excel in academics, especially while pursuing law?
I had more than 90% attendance in each semester of my college and rarely used to miss classes. I used to pay attention to whatever the professor was teaching and make notes. I never left anything to the last moment, a practice that I follow even today, and I used to study for all the exams well before the exam date. On the day before the exams, I only used to revise and think about how I could somehow improve my answers.
I focused more on writing as many cases as I could and on correctly writing the provisions of the laws; all this was only possible because I revised multiple times before the exams. I was confident that I had learnt it and focused on keywords while reading anything new. I used to read many different books and xerox the relevant parts to prepare my answers.
As this required a lot of effort and time, therefore I used to begin my preparation around one month before the first-semester exam and increased my hours of studying as the exams approached. Also, starting early gave me the advantage of clarifying my doubts to the concerned professor and I never left anything to luck; I always gave the exams by reading almost the entire syllabus, so that even if the question paper was difficult, I could answer them.
I always focused on writing the answers supported by case laws, sections and notes of that teacher and never missed answering any of the questions in my exams during my college days; I used to allocate a specific time frame for answering each question and then used to move on to the next question on completion of the allotted time frame.
Out of the wide spectrum of internships you did in college (Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, NCRB, Ministry of law and Justice, Kochhar and Co etc), which one of them was the most enriching experience? What should be the three things one should keep in mind while choosing an Internship?
My internships at the Chamber of Adv. Murari Tiwari Sir and Chamber of Adv. Rajesh Yadav Sir was the most enriching for me.
Murari Tiwari Sir and Tripurari Tiwari Sir are both very polite, helpful and friendly, and they used to make sure that all the interns in their office learned something new each day; I was given case files which I had to read, and after that, Sir used to ask me as to what I understood from the case and after that guide me as to the facts of the case and laws applicable thereof. Despite Murari Tiwari Sir and Tripurari Tiwari Sir being very busy with their work, they always kept some time aside each day for their interns.
My internship at the Chamber of Adv. Rajesh Yadav Sir was also very enriching. I learned a lot under his able guidance, and Sir used to teach me about the intricacies of court procedures. I was given some case files to read, which I later used to discuss with him. Sir had an excellent command over the facts of the case, and he used to tell me about the arguments of both sides in that case. During this internship, I visited the Hon’ble Delhi High Court for the very first time. Sir had extensive knowledge of the facts and the laws pleased in the case so much so that even without opening the file, he could remember all the details of the case and even the page number where it was mentioned!
On the aspect of what one should keep in mind while choosing an internship is concerned, I would say that it would depend on the career objective of that person. If one has not decided which area they want to join, one may intern at different places to get an idea. Also, I feel that if one has figured out what one wants to join after completing their LL. B then a long-term internship at a single place is more beneficial than multiple short internships at different locations, provided one enjoys their time and is learning at that internship.
You hold expertise in various areas of practice like Civil Law, Criminal Law, Arbitration, Insolvency Law, Recovery matters etc. How would you describe your journey in the field of litigation so far? Please tell us – the good, bad and the ugly.
Litigation requires one to read a lot and spend a lot of the time thinking as to what could be the possible arguments in the case and anticipate the arguments that the opposite party might advance and how to tackle them.
The good part in litigation is the encouragement and appreciation you get from the judges, seeing your name as a counsel in judgements/order sheets, and the fact that what one might argue may become the law of the land if agreed by the judge.
The bad part would be the long hours one has to spend each day reading; there are so many documents that one has to read. Then after figuring out what the question of law is involved in the case, one has to read multiple judgments on that specific provision of law to find which cases laws support your case and which decisions are against your case and then think as to how to distinguish these decisions.
I would say the ugly part is that travelling from one court to another to the office daily can be extremely tiring.
You have 17 publications in various reputed journals. You also presented a paper on defamation at the Freedom of Speech and Expression Regional Conference organized by the Law Commission of India in 2016. Do ‘ideas pick you’ or do you have an extensive process of picking topics which you want to write about. Please take us through the whole process from finding an idea to publishing it in a reputed journal. How challenging is it?
Legal writing is my hobby, and I find it a way to express myself on legal issues that have evoked my curiosity. Generally, I write on contemporary legal issues and those issues which would not lose their relevance over time, such as prison reforms and electoral reforms. I had written legal articles on these two topics some 4-5 years ago, and even today, they remain a contemporary topic for discussion.
Before writing an article, it is first necessary to convince yourself as to why you want to write an article on that legal issue. For that, I used to read a little background about the same to ensure that it is indeed a good topic to write on. If I am sure that it is a good topic then I will read about it in detail. Usually, I choose those topics that are being discussed in the media/news so that the chances of their publication would also increase. I always substantiate whatever I would write through primary and secondary sources such as law commission reports, parliamentary committee reports, judges’ interviews, judgements on those points, legislations etc as it has been rightly said by Edwards Deming that ‘Without data, you’re just another person with an opinion’.
If one wants the article to be published in a reputed journal. In that case, the article must be well researched and something that is not only a bit different from the existing literature but also, more importantly, it should make the reader ponder and think if what the author intends to say is unique, has credence and is indeed thought-provoking!
At this young age, you have achieved so much, what do you think is in store for you in the future? How are you planning to use your skills and knowledge accumulated till now?
I still have a long way to go and plenty of things that I want to achieve in my life. I always believe that life would be meaningless if we don’t achieve difficult things. To achieve anything worthwhile, hard work and planning are necessary. Achievements often come at the cost of sacrifices which do pinch a lot; therefore, one should allocate his/her time accordingly and focus on things that are more important to them and in line with their professional aims. I will focus my future on achieving my ambitions and plan accordingly.
You were posted as a Young Professional (Legal) in the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution, Government of India. Please share your experience in the job. How can one scale such an achievement?
I had a brief stint at the Central Consumer Protection Authority (CCPA), which is currently a part of the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, GOI. I enjoyed my time over there and cherish those moments. I am extremely grateful to Ms Nidhi Khare Ma’am (Chief Commissioner, CCPA), Mr Anupam Mishra Sir (Commissioner, CCPA), Rout Sir and Jayashree Narayanan Ma’am for giving me this opportunity to work at the CCPA.
CCPA is a newly established regulatory body under section 10 of the Consumer Protection Act, 2019 (CPA) and has been established to protect the rights of consumers. Regulatory bodies are different from courts/tribunals and are equally important institutions in the administration of justice. I wanted to work there so as to learn about regulatory bodies and to get exposure to how the work culture of the government is different from that of the private sector.
Finally, a word of advice for the lawyers and law graduates who are passionate about litigation & arbitration?
I don’t think that right now I am at that stage in my life where I can advise lawyers or law graduates. I still have a long way to go. However, those who intend to join the field of litigation & arbitration must be ready to work hard and focus their time on learning the intricacies of the laws. In any given facts of a case, there can be various laws that could be applicable, so you must have a fair idea of the applicable substantive and procedural laws so that you can research if there has been any violation of some legal principles or judicial precedents that would help you to advance your case before the courts.
For example, if there is a contractual dispute between two parties over goods purchased through an e-commerce site, then depending upon the facts, various laws could be applicable, such as the Contract Act, 1872, Sale of Goods Act, E-commerce rules, IT Act, 2000, CPC, IPC, CRPC, Evidence Act, Commercial Court Act, 2015 etc. Therefore, a holistic understanding of all the major laws is necessary while developing expertise in a few laws that one is most comfortable with.
I am grateful to the ‘SuperLawyer’ for giving me this opportunity to share my experience and conclude by quoting an extract of a speech by Justice K. M. Joseph, Judge Supreme Court of India, at the convocation of the National University of Advanced Legal Studies, Kochi, which I consider to be very useful and practical advice in life, he said that ‘…Study the Court. When I joined the Bar, a senior counsel gave me advice which I thought was useful. He told me that the Court is like a zoo. There is the elephant, the horse, the deer and also the tiger and the lion. You cannot feed grass to the tiger as much as you would feed them to a deer..’
I am a self-motivated individual who tries to see positive things in all spheres of my life. “All is well, All is well” is my motto! (I presume you have seen the movie, 3 Idiots.)
WHAT FACTORS INFLUENCED YOU TO PURSUE LAW. PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR COLLEGE LIFE.
To be honest, like any high school student I was also in a dilemma whether to choose law or any other subject for a career path. However, I believed my instinct to choose law as my career. I was good at logical reasoning and analysis in every aspect of decision-making in my life and these qualities are required for a lawyer.
I enjoyed being at ILS, Pune. I was fortunate enough to be taught by Professors such as Prof. Nilma Bhadbhade, Prof. Sonali Jadhav, Prof. Anagha Kadolkar, etc, and even got some wonderful friends for life.
WHAT IS THE SECRET TO SUCH A SUCCESSFUL ACADEMIC RECORD?
I don’t have any secret for my academic excellence. However, like anyone else, I worked hard and achieved good grades. But I feel, it’s paramount for everyone to keep a positive attitude when preparing for their exams and never get into exam stress. Make a plan at least 2 months before the Semester exams and make sure that you stick to it.
YOU HAVE DONE MANY INTERNSHIPS IN TOP-TIER LAW FIRMS DURING YOUR TIME AT LAW SCHOOL. HOW DID YOU BAG THEM? HOW WOULD YOU SAY THAT AN INTERN CAN GENERATE A POSITIVE FEEDBACK IN THE LIMITED TIME THEY HAVE?
I have done several internships with some of the largest law firms in India. I secured a few of them through their internship opportunity application in their career section and others through networking. To make a positive impact on your internships, it is essential to display that you are passionate about your work. Further, you should be willing to clearly listen to the instructions provided by the Associates and Partners and thereafter, provide them with the exact material they are looking for, which may help them during the corporate transactions. In case, if you didn’t comprehend the specific tasks given, then you may kindly let them know. They will surely simplify the tasks and they may explain the concepts to you. Besides, keep in mind that time is very important and you should submit the work within the given time frame. I also suggest you reach the office early and make yourself ready for the day.
YOU HAVE PURSUED A DIPLOMA IN ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND BUSINESS LAW FROM NUJS. PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THIS COURSE. WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO LAW STUDENTS?
I am happy to let you know that I was in the first batch of the NUJS diploma. This course helped me to know more about the basic practical insights of Entrepreneurship and Business Law. I recommend it to all law students.
My special thanks to Mr. Ramanuj Mukherjee who guided me throughout my career process.
WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO GO FOR A MASTERS PROGRAMME? HOW DID YOU CHOOSE YOUR SPECIALISATION?
I always wanted to pursue a Master’s from any of the elite institutions in the world. I used to read about top law schools and even dreamed about getting into one of them since my second year of law school. During my research at that time, I came to know about corporate law, and international arbitration, and its possibilities in the real world such as leading and managing mergers and acquisitions, restructuring, private equity, general corporate advisory works, etc, and the role of international arbitration in resolving disputes between an investor and the sovereign state. From that moment, I made up my mind to become an international lawyer and to pursue a specialization in international business law and international arbitration from one of the top three universities in international law in the United States. Fortunately, I got into the International Business and Economic Law program of Georgetown University Law Center with immense hard work and dedication.
WHICH UNIVERSITIES DID YOU APPLY FOR LLM? HOW DID YOU CHOOSE GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW CENTRE?
I have applied to some of the top law schools in the United States. Here, I chose Georgetown Law
because of several reasons such as the following:
Location: Georgetown Law is situated in Washington D.C and D.C have enough opportunities for networking in international law-related careers considering most of the international agencies and big US law firms are located in Washington D.C.
B) Externships: Another reason that I would like to mention here is their Externship programs. They have a lot of great externship programs that may allow you to work with international organizations and international law firms in D.C.
C) World-class international law library: Georgetown Law has a brand new world-class library specifically for International Law with the library of Congress nearby.
D) Celebrity International Law Professors: The other most important factor for my consideration to apply to Georgetown Law is their International Law Professors. Georgetown Law has world-class celebrity international Law Professors to teach international law.
E) Ranking with respect to International Law: Georgetown Law is always listed ahead of Harvard and Yale in the international law category and most of the time in the top three international law programs in the United States as per the widely recognized US News Ranking.
WHAT SHOULD BE KEPT IN MIND WHILE WRITING SOP FOR LLM ABROAD?
SOP: I must confess that the SOP writing part is the most difficult in the whole LL.M application process. I suggest you write your SOP at least a year before your application submission due date. The SOP must have a proper direction (means must look like a life story linked with real-life events ) where the admission committee can easily follow your genuine motivation towards your LL.M studies: (it is paramount to show your genuineness in your SOP) and what you aim to achieve after the graduation. (Always keep in mind that words should be used in minimal in number maybe 650 words or lesser)
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR TIME AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW CENTRE? WHAT SHOULD A LAW STUDENT EXPECT WHEN GOING FOR AN LLM ABROAD?
It was awesome! I got the opportunity to meet several brilliant minds from all over the world. Now, I can say I got friends from all over the world.
Be ready to work hard! Keep your expectation very high and this expectation will strive you to work hard to achieve your target.
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE RECRUITMENT PROCESS AT JSA?
The recruitment process in JSA is very transparent. You can apply through their career section on their website and wait for their response.
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO OUR READERS?
Always be positive! You are gonna achieve your dreams. If you think you are an average or below-average student, don’t ever stick to that point. Get up and think, think, think! What should I do from now to change myself to my best? You should not compare yourself with others. Believe in yourself!
Subhayu Chakraborty, graduated in Law from WBNUJS in the year 2012. Subjects like IPR, Economics, Economics and Law, Corporate Law, Taxation and Corporate Finance/Governance and Law interested him and he has penned down a few articles – one published by the prestigious International Astronautical Federation (IAF) in 2010. Subhayu went on to pursue his Master’s degree in Finance, Frankfurt School of Finance & Management, Germany.
He landed his first job at Sand Hill Counsel through LinkedIn which was initially an internship turned into a PPO. According to Subhayu, “Internships should be taken as a learning ground and for building lasting connections.” Currently, as an investment banking analyst he is responsible for deal origination and industry wide/company research.
In this interview, he talks to us about:
Converting internships to PPO
Importance of higher education
Masters in Finance from Frankfurt School of Finance & Management, Germany
Roles and responsibilities of an investment banking analyst
HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS? DO YOU COME FROM A FAMILY OF LAWYERS? CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD?
I am an investment banker, having had a prior experience in VC transactions. I am an avid reader, love to travel, am passionate about city photography, abstract art, F1 and I play chess. Post law, I worked a couple of years; before pursuing MoF (Master of Finance), and thereafter I joined a mid-market investment bank – 7i Advisors LLP. I now look forward to Joining Naspers in a FinTech Strategy and M&A Investments role.
My father is a taxation consultant, and that’s where the first nudge came from. At high school, the choice was between computer science or law. Ultimately, at close of 12th I decided to write the law entrance exams. The choice was amongst NLSIU, NUJS and NALSAR. Once admission to NUJS was confirmed, it was convenient to drop the rest.
I come from Kolkata and spent my childhood there. I did travel considerably – something I wish I could get time, today; that apart, I owe a lot to my schooling, which afforded an all-round development.
WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO PURSUE LAW? CAN YOU TELL OUR READERS HOW LEGAL EDUCATION HAS BEEN BENEFICIAL FOR YOU IN YOUR CAREER?
Though most people post 10th took up Science and prepared for engineering or medicals; they were never really an option, given my love of chemistry! Yes, sarcasm intended. In 2005, NUJS had its first batch of graduates. I remember discussing with my mathematics teacher and mentor, about the options a legal education would open. My dad played a big role, too. A couple more mentoring sessions later, law was a clear winner.
I believe, the biggest take-away from a legal education has been developing analytical and reasoning faculties; which does help one in roles like advisory/consulting. Having a deep knowledge of corporate law, FDI policies, and being able to structure investments/funds and being adept at soft skills like negotiation does help in Investment Banking.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR TIME AT NUJS? DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN MOOTS, DEBATES ETC. OR UNDERTAKE ANY MEMORABLE INTERNSHIPS? HOW DID THESE EXPERIENCES CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR HOLISTIC DEVELOPMENT?
Law school, without a doubt were great years. I didn’t have a taste for the liberal arts curriculum; but, mid-way through law school I enjoyed most of my courses. I always enjoyed writing and penned down a few articles – one published by the prestigious International Astronautical Federation (IAF) in 2010. Studying with a cohort of talented and driven students, leaves its mark – and coming from a national law school, your extended alumni connect is the best takeaway.
I didn’t have a penchant for moots. I, in fact, never considered anything remotely linked to litigation as an option.
Internships should be taken as a learning ground and for building lasting connections. You got to believe the dots would form a line at the end. Few months back – I got off the phone with the India CEO of a real estate investment concern on a possible JV with a Japanese investor. I met him while he headed another concern, with whom I had completed an internship.
WHAT WERE YOUR AREAS OF INTEREST IN LAW SCHOOL? WHAT PIQUED YOUR INTEREST IN TRANSACTIONS? HOW DID YOU CULTIVATE AND PURSUE SUCH INTERESTS?
Business and Law are two sides of the same coin. Legal acumen will stand you in good stead and so will transferable skills like negotiating and reasoning, while making business decisions. Subjects like IPR, Economics, Economics and Law, Corporate Law, Taxation and Corporate Finance/Governance and Law interested me.
Measuring value is an inexact science and markets are irrational. The value creation – be through an M&A, or PE/VC transaction; be either in the strategic sense or pure financial, wherein real worth may develop over the considerably longer term always excited me. I found myself reading the FT and HT Mint more often than law journals.
I was fortunate to be amongst the students to take part in the Allen & Overy International Finance and Corporate Law course. I took quite seriously the words of a partner, that “you could learn more about Private Equity and LBOs, if you read ‘Den of Thieves’ and ‘Barbarians at the Gates’…” That piqued my interest and some knowledge about the US M&A/LBO boom of that period, does hold one in good stead. Thereafter, it became easier – following up on business pages, HBR and being an avid reader, reading on finance books.
WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO OBTAIN A MASTER’S DEGREE IN FINANCE? CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE STUDYING ABROAD?
I found, in my first job, as a transaction lawyer – that, I would inherently spend more time trying to get a better hang of the deal metrics, than documentation and structuring. Somewhere down the line, it struck I could be in deal origination. In India, apart from a lateral move into IB by a lawyer, which is very rare – it made sense to get a master’s Degree in Finance. I had to get a pre-experience one (although the average age of the graduating class was 26), as a post experience programme demanded verifiable quantitative skills. I chose Frankfurt School of Finance & Management, in Germany over a noted Spanish school, to be in close proximation to the continental capital of Finance. Further, an increasing number of German corporates are setting up base in India. I graduated in the FS cohort of 2016, specialising in the Corporate Finance track.
Studying abroad is about a journey that ends back at home. Life at FS was a roller-coaster. I had my fair shares of ups and down. Had the good fortune of studying amongst a diverse international student body. Studies were intense, but there were also a lot of free time during weekends. Camping and trails in the German countryside; wine fests, jazz and a dynamic international music scene; are some of the finer things, I do miss. The best part, as always making friends and growing your professional network; and, you know maybe someday I am going to work on a deal alongside a classmate. FS also had a lot of initiatives. FS Buddy for instance, aimed at foreign and exchange students would organize a lot of day trips and cultural activities. They were fun, whilst getting acquainted with the German way of life. There were a lot of focus on student activities and FS Invest and FS Chess were another couple of student run endeavours. At FS we were encouraged to think out of the box, and a lot of students took part in business games and valuation Olympiads. I had the good fortune of being selected to go to Zurich to take part in the India Symposium, attend the 69th CFA Annual Conference in Frankfurt and also take part in the 49th Annual Meet of the ADB.
WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE IMPORTANCE OF HIGHER EDUCATION? WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE TO READERS WHO ARE ON THE FENCE ABOUT PURSUING FURTHER STUDIES?
Well, when speaking about legal education – the value adds of doing a masters, is about your specialization. I am not sure of the graduate job market in London, post Brexit; but English law will continue to be the very basis of our commerce. Of course, there are many students who prefer to do an LL.M or a J.D and then come back to India.
A rule of the thumb would be to know what your core interests are and choose a university depending on its specialization. Rankings of course matter, but you must differentiate among universities to choose the best one for you.
HOW DID YOU LAND YOUR FIRST JOB? WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR WORK THERE?
Here you got a tale! Phew… I had good grades in IPR and was recommended by a noted faculty member to join as a patent attorney in a pharmaceutical concern. Before joining in, I contacted a partner at Sand Hill Counsel on LinkedIn and set up a one-month internship in Mumbai. I left for Hyderabad, post my internship at Sand Hill. When working on IPR, while that was certainly of utmost interest; I got a call back from Sand Hill Counsel and was offered a PPO. I quit my training and returned to Mumbai for another stint – before joining Sand Hill next June. I remember getting an e-mail from the concerned professor expressing disappointment at me having not been able to make a decision earlier – and, this was also the time when I had a pending submission for the Novartis Bio-camp (in Hyderabad, India) – I had to swallow some pills and take a conscientious decision of letting the Vice Chancellor office know of my decision to withdraw from the Bio-camp. Things do have a way of working out, at the end – and, I was thankful for having made that decision.
At Sand Hill Counsel, like any other law firm associate, I was responsible for research, drafting legal opinions, firm write-ups, drafting agreements, and the usual ‘on-deal’ responsibilities and closing formalities, with a view to managing expectations and delivering a mature product.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE NATURE OF WORK UNDERTAKEN BY AN INVESTMENT BANKING ANALYST FOR OUR READERS?
In IB, one should be prepared for long hours and turning around deliverables in quick time. No two days are the same. I primarily was responsible for analysing business opportunities, develop pitch books for getting mandates, develop target lists, build investment decks, build business models and conduct valuation analysis across sell-side companies. On a live transaction, one has to proactively manage the due-diligence (business, financial and legal) process; and work towards a successful closing. At closing tempers break often and there are long hours, and you do see here, a continuum from my transaction law days.
What you do need to be a good investment banker, is better than average modelling skills – having a good understanding of key financial drivers, some hands-on strategy, and being able to work independently and efficiently in a high-pressure environment. It’s also very important to be a thought leader in the space of your calling.
WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR OUR READERS WHO ARE PRIMARILY COLLEGE STUDENTS?
Take risks and believe in your dreams.
There are no ideal jobs and don’t fall into a peer trap. While some jobs may be paying well, others do come with a long call. Think of the pay-off from that long call, and if that’s a role you do like – take the plunge. Most people I have known, do regret not taking chances; than failing. And, if you do fail, rise; but at the same time be sure to not attempt something, because of your ego – prepare well instead, to truly deserve!!
Debanshu Khettry is a fourth-generation lawyer at Leslie & Khettry. He focusses on corporate law, commercial contracts, corporate finance and banking law, securities law, property law, and legal due diligence.
Debanshu has catered to international clients looking to do business or having business in India through his association with a reputed and one of the best law firms in New Delhi. He has assisted in negotiation and documentation of various inbound investments in India. He has experience in legal due diligence of businesses in various sectors including infrastructure, e-commerce, FMCG, biotechnology, and education. In addition, he regularly advises corporates, sporting bodies, and individuals on issues relating to commercial law and property law.
He attained LLM with distinction from University College London and graduated from National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata (gold medallist).
He gained wide experience through over a dozen internships in some of the biggest law firms in India; judges of Hon’ble Supreme Court of India and Hon’ble Delhi High Court; eminent lawyers and Members of Parliament; office of additional solicitor general and NGOs. His contribution in all these places was highly appreciated.
Debanshu co-founded P-PIL, with Dr. (Prof.) Shamnad Basheer, to promote practical advocacy among law students. His extensive empirical research on the constitutionality of a statutory tribunal in India was endorsed by a former High Court Judge. He is a founding member of IDIA (established to promote diversity in law schools by training the deprived) where his co-authored policy paper was accepted by the CLAT Committee. His other initiatives include being the founding executive editor of Journal of Telecommunication and Broadcasting Law (first of its kind refereed journal); co-founder of SILC (India’s first standard legal citation system); and co-founder of Lawctopus (a leading website for law students).
His articles have been published in refereed international journals and his research has been cited in various books and articles. He also takes a keen interest in developments in the financial markets.
In this interview, we speak to him about:
Importance of LLM
Tips on writing SOPs and advice on application requirements
Challenges faced in starting his own venture
Roles and responsibilities as principal associate at Leslie & Khettry.
GIVEN THAT MOST OF OUR READERS ARE LAW STUDENTS AND YOUNG LAWYERS, HOW WILL YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THEM?
I am a fourth-generation lawyer at my family’s legacy firm, Leslie & Khettry. I graduated from National University of Juridical Sciences (NUJS) in 2013 and then pursued LLM from University College London (UCL).
TELL US ABOUT YOUR OPTIONS AFTER GRADUATING FROM SCHOOL. DIDN’T YOU THINK OF THE CONVENTIONAL DEGREES IN ENGINEERING AND MEDICINE?
Any other field of study was never in my mind. Since my forefathers have been lawyers, the legal profession has always been in my blood. I took CLAT tuitions from the eleventh grade and managed to get an all India rank of about 100. My backup plan was to pursue BCom (Hons) from St. Xavier’s College, Kolkata where I gained admission and then do a three year law course in case I did not get into any of the top law schools in India which have a five year integrated law program.
WHAT CO-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES DID YOU PARTAKE IN NUJS?
I was not much into the traditional co-curricular activities in law school such as debate or mooting (except for the compulsory ones). Instead, I was involved in entrepreneurship and practical lawyering.
Under the aegis of Prof. (Dr.) Shamnad Basheer, I got an excellent opportunity to work for P-PIL (Promoting Public Interest Lawyering) where we provided law students an opportunity to get hands-on experience of practical lawyering. We worked on issues ranging from human rights, education to regulatory lapses.
Under the able guidance of Prof. (Dr.) Basheer, I also got the opportunity to work in the policy arm of IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access) that aims to empower underprivileged children by providing them access to legal education. Pursuant to the policy paper that we submitted to the CLAT Committee, various changes were made in relation to the conduct of the CLAT exam.
I also started the first of its kind international peer-reviewed Journal of Telecommunication and Broadcasting Law (JTBL) for NUJS. Whilst in college, I ran the journal for two years and we were able to get Lexis Nexis as the publisher.
Along with another friend, we also conceptualised India’s first legal citation system, the Standard Indian Legal Citation (SILC). Unfortunately, most law schools and journals in India follow legal citation systems that are not indigenously developed and are not comprehensive guides for citing Indian legal sources. The freely available SILC solves that problem.
Then of course, I also spent time in planning and developing Lawctopus (an online portal dedicated to law students) along with the other co-founders. I feel proud that five students from NUJS were able to produce a website that has helped a large number of students in myriad ways.
In addition, I worked as a researcher for a global LPO during my spare time. I also tried making NUJS a more prominent institution in the legal industry. For instance, a friend and I were able to convince the Vice-Chancellor in our second year to change the academic calendar of the University to allow for students to do 3 internships in a year which required in-depth study and galvanising great amount of support from the student body and faculty.
AS A LAW STUDENT, YOU CONSISTENTLY EXCELLED IN ACADEMICS AND BAGGED GOLD MEDAL IN YOUR BA LLB (HONS) COURSE FROM NUJS. WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIP THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH LAW STUDENTS FOR CONSISTENTLY EXCELLING IN ACADEMICS?
Discipline, focus and determination are some of the keys to excel in academics. Achieving good grades or being a rank-holder is an important byproduct that helps in numerous ways such as opening several avenues in your career. However, it is not the only means and what matters most is the knowledge that you gain and how you use it.
YOU SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED ABOUT TWELVE INTERNSHIPS IN YOUR 5 YEARS OF LAW SCHOOL. PLEASE TELL US HOW FAR DID YOUR INTERNSHIPS HELP YOU IN YOUR CAREER AFTER YOUR GRADUATION? HOW WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THE PRESENT LAW STUDENTS PLAN THEIR INTERNSHIPS?
I tried to gain wide experience through internships and accordingly interned at a mix of places such as some of the biggest corporate law firms in India, judges of Hon’ble Supreme Court of India and Hon’ble Delhi High Court, eminent lawyers such as Ram Jethmalani, the office of additional solicitor general of India and NGOs amongst others. The variety of places meant doing different kinds of work which helped me get a flavour of the innumerable areas of law and the kind of work that I enjoyed doing. This immensely aided in shaping my career path.
To law students, I would suggest to try and do as many internships as possible. It will not only help in gaining practical experience but also an understanding of their likes and dislikes. Since the capacity in many places is limited, I would recommend that they plan the internship at the place of their choice well in advance.
PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO PURSUE AN LLM AT UCL. PLEASE SHARE SOME ADVICE ON ACING THE APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS AND PROCEDURE FOR UCL? DID YOU RECEIVE ANY SCHOLARSHIP OR WHETHER UCL PROVIDE STUDENTS WITH SCHOLARSHIPS?
Much to my surprise, the partners at various law firms that I interned at, did not agree with the concept of LLM or higher education. According to them, it is a waste of time, money and does not yield any benefit in relation to practice in India where the environment and laws are different. However, my cousin who lives in the UK convinced me of the benefits of a post-graduation degree from the UK such as an opportunity to be part of a global network, acquiring a deeper understanding of the law, better educational qualification, etc.
As far as the application process goes, I received enormous help from my friends, family, well-wishers and professors. UCL does provide scholarships to students, however, I did not apply for it.
To fellow applicants, I would advise that they seek guidance from someone who has been through the process with success rather than taking half-baked ideas of those who have never been through the application process. I would also recommend that they spend a great amount of time in preparing their applications meticulously and not work on them in haste.
YOU HAVE BEEN THE FOUNDER/COFOUNDER OF VARIOUS VENTURES INCLUDING THE LAWCTOPUS, P-PIL, JTBL AND SILC. WHAT INSPIRES YOU TO TAKE UP THESE NEW VENTURES?
Each venture is the result of efforts of several others and a gap in the industry that needed to be filled. When we started Lawctopus, there was no website that offered information on the various opportunities available to students or an insight into how their internship experiences at various places have been. The portal helps law students and aspirants make informed choices.
Similarly, for P-PIL, we wanted to create a platform from where students can get an experience of practical advocacy which unfortunately is not fully achieved with the current system of mooting in law schools.
JTBL was the result of lack of any journals devoted to the ever-growing, vital and complex field of telecommunication and broadcasting laws. SILC was also conceptualised due to the absence of any indigenous citation methodology designed to cater to the reference of Indian legal sources.
One of the major inspirations behind these ventures was Mahatma Gandhi’s oft-quoted phrase ‘Be the change you want to see in the world’. It is easy to remark that there is a problem or there is a lack of a better solution, nevertheless, each problem or the lack of a better solution is an opportunity that can be seized.
WHICH SUBJECTS DID YOU TAKE IN YOUR LLM AND WHY?
I have an enormous interest in finance and the financial markets. This led me to take subjects related to this field (such as regulation of financial markets, corporate finance and corporate governance) during my LLM. I also undertook a thought-provoking subject that focussed (amongst others) on the extraneous factors that influence a judge’s decision-making. Even during my law practice, I give a great deal of emphasis on the psychology of judges and analysing their orders and judgments before advising clients.
PLEASE TELL US THE CHALLENGES YOU FACED IN STARTING YOUR OWN VENTURES?
One of the biggest challenges has been to manage the teams and making sure they are performing their responsibilities in a timely manner. In addition, achieving consensus amongst other co-founders becomes challenging at times since they have their own ideas and vision about the venture.
YOU WORK AS A PRINCIPAL ASSOCIATE AT LESLIE & KHETTRY. WHAT ARE YOUR MAIN TASKS AND WHAT ARE YOUR ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITY?
Historically, Leslie & Khettry has been based out of Kolkata even though we regularly came to New Delhi for practice. Recently, though, we opened our office in New Delhi also which I am currently managing. My main responsibility is to grow our practice in New Delhi and cater to the needs of those requiring legal assistance in New Delhi.
WHAT OTHER ACTIVITIES ARE YOU INVOLVED IN BESIDE PRACTICING LAW?
I devote some amount of time in doing angel investments and meeting entrepreneurs and understanding their needs. I also enjoy engaging in new activities, be it learning a new language or an instrument or taking up a sport.
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PARTING MESSAGE TO OUR READERS?
Always be humble, logical and open to new ideas. Law changes its shape on a regular basis and therefore one must be flexible to adapt to the ever-growing field. I have noticed that professionals often casually call themselves an expert on a subject but there is a reason why lawyers are called practitioners. Also remember, the client is king and therefore their requirements and service to them should take top priority. One must also be ready to toil no what part of the career they are at in order to survive and excel. It is therefore imperative that you enjoy the journey. In spite of best efforts, mistakes may happen but what is important is how you overcome and handle them. There is always scope for improvement in whatever one does.
