Category: Featured Insights

  • Satyajeet Desai, Advocate and Editor of Mulla on Hindu Law, on building an illustrious practice in litigation

    Satyajeet Desai, Advocate and Editor of Mulla on Hindu Law, on building an illustrious practice in litigation

    Satyajeet A. Desai qualified in law from L. A. Shah College, Gujarat University, in 1988. Soon after graduation he started practice under the tutelage of Suresh Shelat and thereafter Kirtikant Nanavati. In the years to come he worked extensively in various laws including Company and Securities Law and garnered a lot of recognition and accolades.

    He is currently practicing at the Gujarat High Court and is known widely as an authority on Hindu Law. He is the current editor of “Mulla on Hindu law” and of “S.T Desai on Partnership”, both published by the LexisNexis Butterworths.

    In this dialogue with him, we speak to him about:

    • His life as a lawyer and a lecturer.
    • His role in contributing to the literature on Hindu Law.
    • His experience with Companies, International Airlines and Individuals.
    • His ideas about evolution of “Advocacy” as a profession.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your pre-college years, your life as a student and your ambitions as a young man. Did you have lawyers in your family or among close relatives who inspired you?

    Every youngster has dreams of following some profession or doing some business. Academically, I was better than an average student, my strong points being languages and history rather that mathematics and science. I always scored really well in languages and history and realising this, I decided on the profession of Law as my career choice. I believe that what shapes one’s career decision is not only one’s choices but also the atmosphere one surrounds himself with. In my case, my grandfather, late Justice S. T. Desai has been my hero and idol. Observing him working as a leading Senior Advocate at the Supreme Court, inspired me to become a lawyer. Again, I come from a long line of lawyers, with my great grandfather T. R. Desai and his father R. K. Desai before him both being lawyers of repute.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was and when did you actually experience the learning curve? Also, looking at the booms and busts in the legal industry, what do you think about the future of legal education in India?

    In our time during the Mid-Eighties, the law programme was for three years. There were no five year courses offered as they are today. We had some fine professors and visiting faculties, so overall, my law college experience was quite good. The future augurs well for the profession.

    The Legal education in our country is good, but the number of law colleges should not mushroom much. I would want successful lawyers to come forward and teach the students, because their experiences would benefit them more, as compared to only learning the basics at law schools. I would love to quote an incident during my student days here.

    Once the Professor for Drafting and Pleadings, who was a leading civil court practitioner himself, gave us a home assignment, asking us to draft a Plaint on behalf of an illiterate lady whose property had been taken over by fraud. We all turned in the assignment, duly completed. After a couple of days, the professor told us that though the Plaints were good, only one would pass muster that was mine. The reason was that apart from the issue at hand, I also concentrated on the Plaintiff being illiterate and I placed a thumb mark where the Plaint was supposed to be affirmed. He pointed that out to all of us.

    Later, he asked me how I hit upon the correct thing to do. I told him that “I probably looked up for the same book from which you gave us the assignment.” He said, “You have managed to do two things today, draft well, and look up for older precedents”. This was a valuable lesson indeed!

     

    Did you participate in any extracurricular activities while at law school?

    I participated in moot court competitions when I was in law school. There were not many moot court competitions then, but that was a good learning experience for me. It also helped me to work with what was to come later. So far as the internships are concerned, during our early years, we did not have any formal internships as in the five year law programme today, but as I said, I wanted to be nothing else but a lawyer, so, I interned with Mr. Suresh Shelat, a Senior Advocate at Gujarat High Court, from the end of the first year at law school till my last year. With this Internship, I got hands on experience of Courts and Litigation and this helped me get an early exposure to the world of Indian courts.

     

    What are your areas of interest in the legal field?

    I have always been interested to work on commercial laws, and I have been working on the same as well. I also had the opportunity of working on an interesting matter on Aviation Law, the matter relating to an air crash. The case involved an International Convention to be interpreted. For me, the point of interest was the reciprocity arrangement between the two airlines, The carrier that crashed and the International Airline, I represented. I succeeded to show the lack of reciprocity arrangement between the airlines.

    Another field I am very passionate about is Hindu Law. It is fascinating and challenging as the basis lies in old and classical Hindu Law, despite legislations like the Hindu Succession Act and Hindu Marriage Act.

     

    How were your early years as a lawyer?

    My professional journey as a lawyer was full of challenges. After working with Mr. Suresh Shelat, I worked with Kirtikant Nanavati, Senior Advocate, at his law firm. I would like to share here an incident- once, when I was working with Mr. Shelat.

    Mr. Shelat was arguing a matter before the High Court, which spilled to the afternoon session. The issue was interesting, so I went to the High Court Library in the afternoon and I looked up on a particular issue that I felt was important. I found a judgment on that issue and showed it to my senior. In the course of his arguments later, he referred to that issue and the judgment. The court allowed the matter based on that issue. When the court asked him about the issue, my senior pointed out last and pointing towards me he told the court that, ” my associate Mr. Desai must take the credit for that.” I was floored with the magnanimity shown by Mr. Shelat to a raw junior at the Bar.

    When you are a junior, you not only try to do your best so that it helps you develop as a lawyer, but you also try to get a foothold in a very challenging profession. I believe that hard work and dedication, both, are required to excel, no matter what the field be.

     

    You have a long and illustrious career as one of the most reputed advocates in India and as a top notch Jurist. What are the primary soft skills necessary in order to have a successful career in the legal profession?

    A lot of times lawyers come across as assertive and opinionated because of the nature of their profession. But that is a part of the overall build-up of a lawyer. I would like to mention a few soft skills, as you call them, which are necessary to have a successful career in the legal profession.

    The first and foremost being that a lawyer must have the patience to listen to his client and gather the necessary information that will help him or her understand what the client wants. Another skill that I think is important is guiding the client properly. Clients sometimes come to us wanting to take immediate legal recourse by the way of litigation. The real success of a lawyer in such a situation is, to try and ascertain whether the issue can be settled by correspondence, and or negotiation. For me, Litigation is always the last resort.

     

    How was the court atmosphere before as distinguished from now? Did judges talk kindly to new orators? Also, please share with us your experiences during the first few sessions of the court? Do you think it has become more difficult for a fresher to be successful?

    When I initially started my practice, we had some Judges who were really good to the juniors. Their encouragement to perform always encouraged us to better ourselves. I would again like to quote an incident here.

    As a newly minted lawyer, I filed a Petition on behalf of an employee of the Central Government. The petition was against his new transfer soon after he had been transferred to Ahmedabad. The rule then was that normally an employee should not be transferred for 3 years. The judge during the initial hearing, probably wanting to know whether I had researched on the issue, asked me whether there was any judgment on the issue?

    On my affirmative reply, he asked me to come back in the afternoon session with that Judgment. I said that I had the judgment right there and I sought the permission to site it, but before I could open the book, the judge issued notice and granted a stay. He told me that he wanted to find out whether I was ready with the precedent or not.

    I would also like to quote one more incident which is close to my heart. A lawyer had filed a revision application challenging an order of the Civil Court. I was on the opposing side. I succeeded at the end of the hearing. A few months thereafter, I filed a similar matter with the same lawyer opposing me. He pointed out the earlier order to the Judge. The Judge looked at me, smiled and said, “Mr. Desai, you can’t win them all. Petition Dismissed.” I replied with an answer that a similar thing happened to Abraham Lincoln when he was practicing law. The judge asked me about the incident. I replied that when Lincoln was defending a matter in the morning session, the Plaintiff failed and Lincoln succeeded for the Defendant. He was appearing in a similar matter for the Plaintiff in the afternoon session. The judge told him that he must fail now because he succeeded in a similar matter in the morning session. To this. Lincoln’s reply was a classic. He said “I was wrong in the morning session, so I must succeed now.” Well, I lost the matter, but the Judge asked to borrow the book I read the quote from.

    According to me, to become successful, and by that, I don’t mean monetarily, one must put in hard work and inculcate the habit of general and vast reading, even apart from law. For a fresher to be successful, he or she must put in the labour. Success never comes overnight.

     

    In the past you participated in the Law Commission Workshop on making changes to the Hindu Succession Act. How was the experience?

    Yes, I was invited to a workshop by the Law commission in 1998, when changes to the Hindu Succession Act were being debated upon.

    For one, the experience was very satisfying, as you feel that you are helping towards the progressive development of law. The recommendations presented in that workshop ultimately culminated into amendments to the Hindu Succession Act in 2005. We were debating over a particular issue and one of the delegates posed a question to which Justice Jeevan Reddy, the then Chairman of the Law Commission replied. Justice Leela Seth, the then Vice Chairman, looked at me and asked about my thoughts on the issue. In a lighter vein, I replied that whatever I wanted to say, I already wrote in Mulla’s Hindu Law. Of course, I answered the question thereafter.

     

    You are a visiting lecturer at several colleges. How is it important for a lawyer to pass on the learning and the experience?

    Currently, I am a visiting faculty at LJ College in Ahmedabad. I have previously lectured at Ahmedabad University, United World Law College and Knowledge Academy. I am often called for guest lectures at various colleges. As I mentioned earlier, I believe that it is very essential for a practicing lawyer to teach at least a few times a year .It would help the students get hold of what they will be facing when they enter the profession. Knowledge only increases when you pass it on.

     

    You are greatly interested in writing and reading outside of law, can you throw some more light on your hobbies?

    So far as my hobbies are concerned, I would say that reading is a must. I get drawn into whatever book I read, whether it be fiction or non-fiction. Writing on law is passion and a prayer for me. People go to places of worship to pray but for me, writing is my prayer; it’s my holy grail. I would also add here that if you want to write on law, firstly you should be passionate about the subject you want to write about and secondly, you must research it well. Your analysis of law must be palatable in order to be accepted. Also, the language must be lucid and proper so that the reader immediately grasps the point .

     

    What were the landmarks of your career? Please share with us the challenges and achievements you came across on your journey from being a fresh graduate to one of the most renowned lawyers/jurists in Family Law practice?

    Success is a relative concept, looked at from different angles and eyes. I have appeared for Companies, International Airlines, and a lot of Individuals. You may feel that I am underplaying the situation, but I got great satisfaction in appearing for the companies that challenged an order by the Government, and we were successful in that challenge. But I got the greater satisfaction when I appeared for the three poor brothers whose lands were resumed by the Government, and I successfully helped them out, pro bono. I also do a lot of opinion work on Hindu law and some factual situations I came across, fascinate me even today, because the facts for the most part, are always unique. Being invited for the workshop on the Hindu Succession Act was a landmark for my career.

     

    You have several best-selling legal books like ‘Mulla on Hindu Law and S T Desai on Partnership’ to your credit. How important is writing for you?

    Legal writing is very important for me. It is my passion. After all, words are a lawyer’s tools and what better way to contribute to this great profession than to give something back by writing on subjects that you are passionate about.

     

    Can you describe a regular day in your life?

    My typical day starts around 5 AM. I Get up, have a rejuvenating cup of coffee, start reading for whatever court work I have that day, go to court and attend hearings I have. Back home after court, I attend the meetings with clients (in my case non litigation clients on Hindu law as well). I teach once a week, which keeps me firmly earthed and I also stay in touch with academia.

     

    What advice would you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    My advice to law students is that study well but also indulge yourself with general reading as that will help you in building your overall personality as a lawyer. Amongst all the professions, law is probably the only profession where you are required to interact a lot verbally. Keep reading and stay updated with the current news and events. You never know when it might come to your aid, After all, a lawyer is required to think on his feet. General reading helps a lot. Your arguments may sound even better if they are interspersed with quotes or similar situations or even humour at times.

     

  • Shravan Kumar Bansal, Senior Partner, United IPR on building a successful practice in intellectual property law for over a span of two decades

    Shravan Kumar Bansal, Senior Partner, United IPR on building a successful practice in intellectual property law for over a span of two decades

    Shravan Kumar Bansal qualified in law from the Campus Law Centre, Delhi University in 1989. Shravan is a science graduate in the field of Botany, Zoology and Biotechnology and armed with a degree in Law and substantial expertise in patent litigation he is a renowned expert in IPR litigation, counterfeiting and Anton Pillar actions.

    With experience spanning over two decades in litigation he also has expertise in prosecution and enforcement of patents, trademark and copyright cases. He advises clients on diverse aspects of intellectual property including ownership and enforcement matters in India and abroad. He is on the panel of number of Indian as well as international companies and trade-oriented organizations. He is an active member of accredited International IPR organizations and has to his credit several landmark IPR reported judgments passed by different courts in India.

     

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His journey as a litigating lawyer
    • Importance of IPR in the contemporary times
    • The task of taking over family legal practice
    • His experience with international IPR organisations and landmark judgments in India

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    I do come from a  family of lawyers, and I belong to the third generation of lawyers in my family. My grandfather was a leading taxation advocate and the Intellectual Property practice was started by my father in 1954. Practising solely in the field of IP Law since 1954, we happen to be one of the first full-service IPR Law Firms in the country dealing solely and dedicatedly in IP Law.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law after pursuing the sciences? How did you realise your interest in the legal field? How was your experience at law school?

    Science was a subject of personal interest to me as I have always maintained that studying science opens one’s mind to greater curiosity and spirit of inquiry and develops analytical ability in a person which really helps a person in any and all spheres of life and profession. Studying science at the graduation level in the field of Botany, Zoology and Biotechnology has really helped me in Patent Litigation matters and Patent Filings/Analysis of inventions in my profession. My interest in the legal field developed when I was quite young as I was watching my father argue important matters in the court, which gave me a sense of passion and pride and made me want to follow in his footsteps. My experience at law school was one which is difficult to forget, having a great time with friends enjoying college life and reading interesting subjects of law at law school, followed by my daily visit to my father’s law chamber where I used to spend hours on endafter law school, learning the nuances of this profession.

     

    What piqued your interest in the field of Intellectual Property Law? Can you describe the relevance of this field today in context of domestic and international law?

    I believe that Intellectual Property Law is one of the very few domains of legal practice (apart from Arbitration Law possibly) which is truly global in its outreach and relevance. Criminal Law, Civil Law matters and other domains of the legal practice I believe are nationalized and localized in their approach and relevance; as such laws are limited and vary/differ from one jurisdiction to another. Intellectual Property Law, as opposed to these, offers a global platform for practice in terms of serving a global clientele for their brand protection and IP matters. This is one of the few factors about the IP practice which captures my interest and imagination.

    As to your question about relevance of Intellectual Property law in today’s scenario with respect to domestic and international law, I believe Intellectual Property law is one of the few domains in today’s time which is playing a pivotal role in shaping national and international polices of nations and legal structures at large. Intellectual Property law is intrinsically related to a country’s economy and commerce. The degree of protection which a country is able to offer to the industry in terms of the legal framework in place to protect and encourage intellectual property directly impacts the level of commerce and innovation taking place in the country, as well as the amount of foreign investment coming in. This is the reason why we can see a marked shift in the policy and intention of the present Indian Government which is taking huge steps in areas such as digitizing IP Registration processes, lowering the time taken to grant trademark, copyright and patent registrations by the government and promoting easier enforcement of IP rights through support of enforcement agencies like the Police, Customs and Courts.

     

    What are your views on the importance and necessity of higher education? What would be your advice to readers undecided about pursuing further studies?

    “Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere”, is what I believe. However, I do not believe that learning only comes from higher education such as a master’s degree or further higher studies. Of course a Masters Program or such other higher study programs do add to one’s skill set but so does practical experience in the profession and I believe that if one is armed with a basic bachelor’s degree in law in this country, he has ammunition enough to build on that through his own practice and practical learning experiences in the profession.

    I have seen instances of advocates benefitting from pursuing higher education and have also seen others benefit from using those years to excel and learn during  practice of the profession instead.

     

    Can you recall the first time you appeared in court in a significant matter? How did you prepare for this? What is the attitude of judges and senior lawyers towards young lawyers?

    In my opinion, the attitude of judges and senior lawyers towards young lawyers in India is highly motivating and encouraging as opposed to the general perception which exists, that the attitude is not very positive and embracing. I believe that if a young lawyer possesses the required legal acumen, is well read with his research and has a positive, accommodative and learning attitude, he would be well received by his colleagues and also by senior lawyers and judges.

    I do recall the first time I appeared in court in a significant matter – It was before the Delhi High Court in a Patent Infringement matter. I had prepared thoroughly for this and was lucky enough to have the relief granted in my favour.

     

    You have been involved in various landmark cases that have shaped the law relating to IPR in India. How did you prepare you arguments in cases where the law was silent?

    Yes, I do feel privileged to be a part of landmark cases which shape the law relating to this domain in India. Interestingly cases do crop up time and again where the law is silent on a complex situation of fact and for which the statue doesn’t really have a straight answer. I believe the rules of interpretation of statutes and borrowings from international jurispudence/case law come in handy in such situations and I have seen judges in my own cases rely on international jurisprudence and arguments based on suggested interpretation of statutes to grant reliefs in such cases.

     

    Can you tell us about some landmark matters you have worked on and how the court interpreted the point of law?

    Again, I feel privileged to have have had the honour of working on various landmark cases which have helped shape the Intellectual Property jurisprudence in this country through judgements of the courts in these cases. Some such cases are where the court recognized the rights of my clients in the shape trademarks of their products (non-conventional trademarks) for the purpose of enforcement on the basis of the wide use, reputation, goodwill and trans-boundary use of the marks, even when my clients did not have statutory trademark registrations of these marks. The court interpreted the point of law on the basis of the doctrine of passing off in trademark law.

    In a separate set of cases, the courts recognized the rights of my clients in the colour combinations used on their packaging for the purpose of issuing and injunction against the opposite party, restraining it on account of creating confusion in the market following the doctrines of trademark infringement, passing off and rights in trade dress and colour combinations.

     

    How are custom duties imposed on IPR? How does this tie to international trade law?

    (Shravan has worked closely with governmental authorities in relation to matters of customs enforcement for intellectual property in India.)

    It is true that my colleagues and I have had the privlege to work closely with the Indian Customs office in relation to enforcement of intellectual property at the borders. We have have been extensively practicing in customs enforcement & conducting capacity building training sessions on IPR laws with the customs officials of India across various land, sea and air ports in the country. India being a signatory to the TRIPS Agreement has an obligation to enforce Intellectual Property Rights at the Territorial Borders. In compliance with the said obligation, India came out with IPR Rules for Customs Enforcement in 2007 after which we were one of the first law firms to register our clients’ Intellectual Property Rights with the Indian Customs to facilitate enforcement. IPR enforcement is an integral part of International Trade Law as it helps in ensuring ‘fair trade’ which is one of the founding principles of the World Trade Organization (WTO) and one of the bed-rock principles guiding International Trade. This it ensures by filtering out counterfeit, sub-standard, spurious and harmful products at the territorial borders thus ensuring that legitimate commerce is promoted and countries are not dumped with counterfeit products which more than anything else, affect a country’s economy by lowering its duty collection at the borders and the investment environment as a whole.

     

    How significant have WTO negotiations and the TRIPS Agreement been in protecting and enforcing trans-boundary intellectual property rights? Has this interest been balanced with social and distributive justice that is significantly important to developing countries?

    I believe WTO negotiations and the TRIPS Agreement which brought about the origin of an obligation on member countries to enforce IP Rights at the territorial borders has been hugely significant in protecting trans-boundary IP Rights. Further, I believe that the enforcement of IP Rights at the borders has in fact resulted in greater social and distributive justice being served as the Indian consumers have been protected from spurious and counterfeit goods due to this enforcement regime and the Indian Government has also benefitted from prevention of loss of revenue resulting from tax evasion and lesser duties being paid by importers of counterfeit goods, which in my opinion is a boon for a developing economy like India.

     

    As a proponent of academia, do you feel that law schools produce socially relevant lawyers equipped to handle the real world practice of law?

    I feel this is an immensely relevant question and a topic which needs greater discussion across the industry and I am glad to answer this. Though I believe that law schools produce exciting talent in terms of the potential and energy that fresh law graduates possess, the real world practice does come down hard on everyone which is true not just for the legal industry but in any domain, profession or business. I believe law schools can consider increasing the preparedness they provide to youngsters on how to deal with and what to expect when they land in the real world practice of law, which can help fresh law graduates immensely. As far as imparting the correct information and skills is concerned, I believe law schools in today’s time are doing a great job, especially when you look at the practical exposure they provide in terms of a higher stress on internships, moot court competitions and other such activities.

     

    You are a member of several international IPR related organisations. What role do such organisations play in the development of IPR law? What role do you play in such organisations?

    I believe that the role played by international IPR related organizations in policy advocacy, development of debate and discussion on important facets of IPR practice and bringing the International community with its various stakeholders closer to each other cannot be expressed in a few words and the importance is huge, to say the least. The credit of the IPR practice today being a truly global practice goes to such organizations which have played an immense role over the years. I happen to be part of such International Organizations for over 3 decades now and share the honour of being one of the first few membership holders from India.

    It has been an honour for me over the years to be a part of and lead various high-level policy advocacy initiatives undertaken by such international organizations in the sphere of proposing policy/legislation change to governments of member countries as far as their IPR Laws and Enforcement Mechanisms are concerned.

     

    What are the skills that one needs to develop to become an effective litigator and how can students develop such skills?

    Command over the language, confidence to express/speak, presence of mind, ability to hustle and strong preparation of the case are the five skills which if mastered, in my opinion, are enough to become a great litigator.

    A litigating lawyer, apart from concentrating on pleading/arguments in the courts also has to set his office in order, ensure smooth client correspondence, case preparation and follow-up which means that any litigating lawyer has to have the ability to hustle and manage his time in a manner such that he is able to make the most of the time he has in a day.

    Presence of mind, amongst other things, involves reading the mind of the Judge and foreseeing/predicting through observation and convention as to what aspects of a case is a particular Judge more interested in on a general basis and preparing a strong case on such points accordingly.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? In this respect, how has your family legacy impacted your success as a lawyer?

    Though there are definite advantages of having a family legacy in the same profession, there are various challenges one faces in taking over the reigns of an entire law firm. Apart from focusing on my legal practice and research, I had the added responsibility of management of the entire firm and the human resources at my hand at a very young age. I faced the task of dividing my day meticulously and managing my time between focusing on my personal law research and litigation with managing the affairs of the entire firm and focusing on its growth.

    Apart from this, another obvious challenge which I believe everyone faces is keeping up with stiff competition. Though this is a common challenge faced by all, it is a challenge nonetheless, and one which keeps you from getting comfortable with your success and pushing you to strive to improve every day.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    I believe the time available on one’s hand when one is in college is highly valuable in terms of the information and knowledge one can gather and accumulate from different fields of law and the research one can do. I strongly believe that sincere research done on any point of law during law school definitely helps one later in the profession regardless of whether or not he/she remembers the entire research conclusion after so many years. What it does provide is a sense of confidence and familiarity with a point of law researched on albeit years ago which makes it easier for one to grasp and understand affairs during the practice years when the time available on one’s hand to spend on research is lesser and expectations with speed are greater. Therefore my advice to college students would be to put this time to the best possible use while of course experiencing the fun aspects of college life, which is also very important.

     

  • M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath graduated in law from Pune University, batch of 2001. Bharath is a Senior Partner at Anand and Anand, India leads the Chennai City Office practice since June 2009. His practice includes Intellectual Property litigation before Indian High Courts, opposition, cancellation and other related proceedings before the Trademark Office, Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB), Copyright Board and Geographical Indications Office. He has been the lead counsel in numerous appeals, rectification and original proceedings before the High Courts of New Delhi, Chennai and IPAB with several reported decisions to his credentials.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His time at law school
    • His role at Anand and Anand
    • His experience in IPR

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an intellectual property lawyer and a Senior Partner in Anand and Anand based in Chennai.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    The days in law school (in Pune) gave me a hands on experience and exposure to diversity in culture, inclusiveness, collaboration and leadership. For want of hostels, we had to fend for ourselves including arranging for accommodation (which were in the 1990’s either homestays or apartments shared by at least eight to ten individuals), food (either by hiring a common cook or eat out from dhabas) transport and working on budgets. The absence of a structured placement cell compelled us to be innovative to raise monies, collate resumes of those who were interested, design and print a brochure, visit firms across the country to brand the institution and seek placements of the students as well.  Spearheading this initiative helped me gain operational skills but also with much needed exposure to the legal market and understanding of the differences in expectations and work cultures in cities such Bombay, Delhi, Madras, Calcutta and Bangalore as they were known back then.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    While grades are important they are definitely not critical. Most lawyers and firms seek law graduates who are committed, hardworking and above all uncompromising on integrity while grades as GPA’s are incidental.  I sincerely hope that students aspiring for a legal career do not seek out only for chances of landing jobs in top firms, as any firm one joins or sets up may soon be one.

     

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days?

    As a law student, Jurisprudence and Procedure Codes were quite appealing to me. While these subjects were not decisive in my career choice, they are  indeed the Grund Norm for daily practice.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    Personally speaking, there can never be just one mentor for an individual for it is likely to take away one’s individuality. I have had many individuals who have inspired me over the years including my father Mr. Subramanian, my late grand uncle Mr. Raghavan, both lawyers and my grandfather Ananthasubramanian who sowed the seeds of grit, independence, integrity, contentment, honesty; my wife Kavita who brought out the extrovert in me; Mr. Anand our Managing partner who continues to share his “Never say die” and “Never say never” attitudes, client handling abilities and vast wealth of IP knowledge; a dear friend and colleague Shamnad Basheer for getting me on board the IP world through Anand and Anand and inspiring many including me to care and share with initiatives such as IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access). In fact I find inspirations even from interns and colleagues who bring new ideas and ideologies to the working table.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    It is important that as a student, one identifies their favourite subject and aspirational senior / firm / organisation early on to seek and undertake an internship. This helps both the student and the employer know each other on many levels. I was lucky to undertake an internship in Anand and Anand in the penultimate summer of my law degree. The month long program led to a pre-placement offer and next sixteen wonderful years here.

     

    How did you develop this keen interest in Intellectual Property Rights Law?

    The zeal to learn new subject and remain a multi disciplinarian drew me towards intellectual property laws. The profession of IP attorney is possibly the only one which touches upon varied subjects of law, arts, science and commerce and in some rare cases all at once. The graduation in commerce prior to law helped me blend in easier.

     

    What kind of activities did you undertake in law school that helped you nurture this interest in IPR law?

    It was the internship at Anand and Anand which gave me an insight into the world of IPR which am still discovering and exploring after sixteen years. Back in the day we hardly had exciting activities on campus unlike now to nurture interests in IPR.

     

    Would attending IPR conferences hold any CV value, or would you recommend them anyway for their academic value?

    It is easy to get lost in the host of conferences, which are being organised on IPR related subjects. Of late there are so many, that even practitioners find it difficult to pick the right one or to let go. It is best to seek guidance from seasoned practitioners on which ones are relevant to attend as a student or young practitioner. In any case, while attendance at these conferences may be of academic value it would not have much impact on CV!

     

    Please give our readers some insights on the leading Indian firms dealing in IPR law, and your recommendations for where and how to secure internships.

    There are quite a number of top quality IPR law firms in India currently, with most based in the cities of New Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Bangalore. It would be inappropriate to name only some.

    While most of these firms over the years have gained reputation on one or few verticals within the IPR regime, say trademarks or patents drafting or prosecution or IP Enforcement, there are only a few which are quite interestingly known as “Full service IP firm” excelling in all forms of IP and all forms of prosecution and enforcement. Choosing a firm to intern with is critical and ought not to be done for the sake of merely adding on to resume. Depending on one’s leaning and flair for a subject, firms have to be identified and applications for internship are to be sent in early on.

    In the recent past I increasingly notice students sending requests for being connected on social media such as Linked In and immediately follow up with requests for internship. Such tools are not only easier for students to better understand the organisation and the individual with whom they seek internship but also build a rapport even prior to the internship program.

    Despite all these initiatives, one needs to be lucky, and being lucky according to me is meeting of Preparedness and Opportunity. A person would not be lucky if despite being having an opportunity is not prepared to take it further ahead.

     

    Tell us about your work experience at Anand & Anand where you currently are a Senior Partner.

    Starting as an intern in 2000, last year I was invited to be a part of our firm’s Council of Senior partners. Early on as a trademarks attorney, I assisted in setting up the firm’s practice before the IP Appeal Board. After several appearances before the Trademark office and Appeal Board, I turned to be a litigator as well. Ever since moving to Chennai in 2009, the city office practice has blossomed well with a current strength of over fifteen members.

     

    What do leading firms that specialise in IPR such as Anand & Anand look for in prospective candidates for internships, retainerships or recruitment?

    While the love and flair for the subject is a given requisite, we look for candidates who innately put clients’ interests above all and work with high commitment, vigour, and ownership without compromise on integrity. As internship programs help us identify prospects, it is easy to differentiate those who come in only for adding claims on their CV and those who have the IP fire in the belly and eagerness to join us.

     

    Do you believe in the conception that there is manifest reluctance among law graduates to take up IPR law as there is a scarcity of job opportunities in this area of practice?

    Quite the contrary! With the boom in innovation, manufacturing and consumption in India, the need for IP attorney has gained significant importance and their need is sure to increase in the times to come. The IP field and as an industry has been steadily growing if not exploding in India recently. While there are quite a few IPR boutique firms which have blossomed recently, the Indian and multi-national corporations have also been busy setting up in house IP cells and departments, resulting in need for many IP hands at work.

     

    Do you feel that there are shortcomings in Indian IPR law that make the practice itself difficult? 

    Every country legislates laws suitable to its own historic, social, economic background each of which undergo change with passage of time. Indian IPR Laws are no different and are quite unique to the land. Practice of these laws and succeeding in it would directly depend on one’s ability to identify practical solutions to clients’ problems within the limits of these laws. There are no short-comings in either the Indian IPR laws or their practice. Innovation is key especially in practice of IPR law. We at Anand and Anand take pride in always staying ahead of the curve to come out innovative solutions to clients. For example one of the largest brewing companies was facing severe waste of resources, as they were one of the few players in the industry to introduce fresh bottles into the commercial stream. As beer bottles are a commodity which are recycled, other players were reaping the benefit of sourcing such bottles from recyclers without having to invest in fresh ones. A simple solution suggested by us of introducing distinctive bottle designs with the brand names embossed on it gave a two layered protection both under designs and trademarks, saving large sums of monies to the client.

     

    Is it necessary to have a background in General Sciences in order to pursue IPR studies?

    Not at all, though having a science background is indeed a great advantage. Science and Commerce are the Yin and Yang of IP. It is a rarity to find those who understand both the streams well but it is in the intersection of these two subjects where the hearts of IP and its practice reside.

     

    What moots would you recommend for an IPR law enthusiast to further their interest and what journals would you recommend for someone who’s hoping to get their work published?

    India’s first and most prestigious moot court competition on IPR is Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot Court, which has had fifteen editions. It is considered the epitome of IPR moots and is a must attend to get a flavour of India’s best competitors mooting on the best IPR problems before the best judges, who are India’s leading IP practitioners and sitting judges of Indian Courts. More information on this can be found at http://ipmoot.org. I would encourage students to publish their work firstly in their own college journals and thereafter reach out to other prominent journals such as PTC (Patent and Trademarks Cases) MIPR (Manupatra IP Reports) which encourage and receive submissions from laws students and scholars. Spicy IP, the popular IP Blog founded by Shamnad also encourages students to be part of their eco system and community to present views and publish works as well.

    What general advice would you give our readers who aspire to stay at the top of their IP game?

    An IP lawyer advising clients on a variety of IP subjects has to necessarily understand their client’s business and commercial standing for each of the subject matters. While standing in their client’s shoes an IP attorney needs to have a perspective of subjects including accounting, statistics, finance, marketing, and advertising. Even if one is not a commerce or a science student there is a much needed foundation for an IP attorney to understand the panorama of how a business is run. To stay ahead of the curve think like a lawyer, science student, commerce student all at once while acting like a business woman / man!

  • Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla graduated from Government Law College in 1972. He founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in April 1982. He oversees all the activities relating to the firm, and also sits as an International Arbitrator. He is the Senior Partner of Zaiwalla & Co Solicitors which has been in the City of London for the past 35 years. His firm successfully acted for the Iranian private bank, Bank Mellat, both before the Supreme Court and the EU Court challenging the listing of bank under Iran Nuclear Sanctions. As a consequence of his firm’s success, Bank Mellat today have a claim of USD 4 billion before the English Court in respect of damages for losses caused because of unlawful listing. His firm were also the first firm which successfully challenged in the EU Court the listing of Iranian companies by EU Council. Zaiwalla & Co have acted for several Iranian companies including Bank Tejarat and Petropars.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His illustrious career
    • Setting up practice in the UK
    • His experience with high profile cases

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in London which is the first English Solicitors firm in the one square mile commercial and financial district in the city of London started by a solicitor born outside Europe. We have been in existence for 36 years and at our 30th anniversary reception in November 2012, the Chief Guest, Rt. Hon. Sir Dominic Grieves MP in his speech said that what my firm had achieved in the development of English law will be remembered even after 100 years. There are today 104 reported judgments in the English law reports where my firm had acted for one of the parties. A judgment is only reported in the law reports if it affects the development of law. We are today one of the leading firms in the field of International Arbitration.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a young student in St. Xavier’s High School, Bombay, my career ambition was to join politics and become the Prime Minister of India so that I could change India and make it great again. My father was a solicitor who had qualified in London in 1925. He was the youngest member of his family and as the youngest member of my family, I was encouraged to qualify as a solicitor in London.

     

    What got you interested in the field of International Arbitration? 

    I did my Solicitors training in an English Solicitors firm called Stocken & Co. who were maritime lawyers and specialised in maritime arbitrations. This gave me the first exposure to international maritime Arbitrations. In those years a Solicitors training was not on a structured basis like it is now and one would start as an assistant to a Senior Solicitor, at first carrying his bags and making cups of tea for him and then later being trained on the job.

     

    Can you briefly describe your current role as an Arbitrator and an Advisor to clients involved in international arbitrations?

    As the world got smaller, international trade between businessmen from various countries grew. International businessmen want a neutral country to settle their disputes and would therefore opt for Arbitration in a neutral venue with a respectable legal infrastructure. This would normally be London where Arbitration in its modern form, was given birth to, over 300 years ago. In the City of London all the fixtures for ocean going vessels to carry cargo were agreed at the Baltic Exchange. The Baltic Exchange used to be the centre of all shipping chartering contracts all over the world. Whenever a dispute arose as to what was agreed between the brokers, the owners and the charterers, they would at the end of the day ask a senior respectable broker to determine the dispute over a cup of tea.

    This was the beginning of international Arbitration in London. International Arbitration has now grown in a sophisticated fashion and it is also a serious foreign exchange earner for the country where the seat of the Arbitration is located. This is because the seat has no other connection to the parties in the Arbitration who have chosen the seat of the Arbitration but the parties have to instruct for example, English Solicitors for London Arbitrations and also spend on experts, Barristers, hotels and other expenses. As a firm of Solicitors we have recently been consulted by the Russian Government in respect of a potential challenge to USD 50 billion Arbitration award against Russia by the International Arbitration Court in The Hague.

    As an Arbitrator, I recently sat for two weeks in Tel Aviv, Israel, as a Sole Arbitrator to decide a multi-million dollar dispute. I have also sat as an Arbitrator in Bombay with Sir Anthony Evans and Harish Salve to decide an international Arbitration dispute concerning a power plant in South India.

     

    International Arbitration often involves a complex interplay of public and private international law. Can you elaborate on this aspect for our readers?

    This is correct because in international Arbitrations there can be three countries which can play a part. For example, in a contract between say an Indian party and a United States party where the contract provides for disputes to be settled in London, Indian law, US law and English law could all have a part to play. Usually, if the contract provides for Arbitration in a neutral venue as the seat of the Arbitration, say London, then there is a presumption that the parties intend English law to apply to the contract. There was a case which I handled earlier for ISRO of India in respect of an Arbitration claim brought by McDonnell Douglas concerning Satellite inset 1B. The Arbitration provided for London as a seat of Arbitration but with the Indian Arbitration Act to apply. The English Court held that by this term, only the procedural aspect would apply to the Arbitration but on the main issues English law would apply. See Union of India v. McDonnell Douglas Corporation [1993] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 48 In another shipping case, the contract was governed by English law with the seat of Arbitration being London, but the English High Court held that in construing its term in the contract, as the performance of the term was to be India, Indian law would apply. This was the case of a vessel called “Nestor” which is reported at [1987] 2 Lloyds Rep. 649. In both of these cases my firm had acted for the Indian parties.

     

    What are your views on the necessity of higher education? 

    Education, including higher education, instructs a student but life experiences educate a student. Higher education is of course of utmost importance because it readily opens doors for good employment or starting ones practice. Higher education is a certificate of competence and knowledge. I have however found that many Oxford and Cambridge educated lawyers were no match for a lawyer with good instincts and wisdom. My advice to your readers would be to go for opportunities available to pursue higher education, it can only do good.

     

    What was your first job out of law school?

    My first job out of law school was an evening job with the Hinduja brothers at their company Sangam Ltd. I had met GP and SP Hinduja when I was still training at Stocken & Co. and they asked me to join their employment. They had just moved from Tehran to London. I said I did not want to take a job and I wanted to have my own practice after I was enrolled as a Solicitor. So the Hinduja brothers offered me an evening job from 6:30pm – 9:30pm. I had an arrangement with Stocken & Co that if I travel for them overseas, Stocken & Co would bill the Hinduja brothers. This was a great opportunity for me because in one year I travelled 42 times to Geneva with the Hinduja brothers and their right hand Mr. Golikeri. I was part of the team which negotiated contract with top lawyers on the other side and although I was not qualified I acted as Hinduja brothers’ unqualified legal adviser, interpreter and negotiator.

    When I started on my own I was fortunate to be appointed as the Indian High Commission in London’s Solicitor. At that time the High Commissioner was Dr. Syed Mohammed who was himself an ex-English Barrister and he had been the Advocate General of Kerala and Minister of State for Law and Justice in Indira Gandhi’s Government. He was thrilled to see a young Parsee Indian starting a law firm in the City of London keeping his Indian surname.

     

    What motivated you to start Zaiwalla and Co. Solicitors?

    When I was working at Stockens I became friendly with Cedric Barclay who was an eminent and popular maritime Arbitrator. I got to know him and a few months before I was enrolled as a Solicitor, he invited me for a cup of tea at his office. In the course of our conversation over tea, he strongly advised me not to join the big English Solicitors firms. He said, “You are good and well liked, but if you join a large English maritime firm, the Senior Partner will take you for lunch once a year and say, “Good job, old boy”, but you will go no higher.” So he advised me strongly to start on my own. True to his word, when I started Zaiwalla & Co., he personally took me to the offices of big ship owners to introduce me and recommend me to them. Very soon I had a reasonably large Greek ship owning clientele.

    Surprisingly, when I started I did not face any major hurdles with the white professional population. They were somewhat surprised to see a brown face but they were more than encouraging. Appearing before the English Commercial Court Judges was a very favourable experience. The Judges would make sure that I was comfortable and go out of their way to ensure that they had fully understood my client’s case. In a way, I found myself sometimes in a more advantageous situation then the white contemporaries in Court. In due course the word went around and the client base started to build and within five or six years I had 23 lawyers working in my firm and at that stage Zaiwalla & Co. was mainly an international Arbitration firm doing maritime Arbitrations and litigation which was mainly for Indian Government cases in the English Court.

     

    You have represented major clients including governments. How have you developed and maintained a client base?

    It is hard work to maintain a client base. An essential ingredient for this purpose is to keep in constant contact with the client. What a client expects from a lawyer is integrity, competence and speed. I made sure that I provided all three of these to our clients.

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to become a successful arbitrator? 

    (Sarosh has been appointed as an Arbitrator in a number of multi- million dollar disputes.)

    An Arbitrators task is very different from the task of a lawyer. I have always been a creative lawyer and I believe in the principle that “law is for justice and not justice for law”. My firm and I have built up a reputation of being creative on issues of law. As a lawyer I can put forward a creative proposition of law to fit the facts and it would be for the Judge or the Arbitrator to decide whether there was any value in such a proposition. However, as an Arbitrator it is for me to make sure that I get it right and live up to the trust which the parties had placed in me to give a correct decision. There are times when I am one of the three members of the Arbitration Tribunal. In that case usually the Chairman who is the third Arbitrator prepares the first draft of the Tribunals award. Many times I have sat as a Sole Arbitrator for multi-million dollar disputes and such cases require a lot of thinking in arriving at my decision which is not very easy. The most important quality to be an Arbitrator is integrity and commercial common sense. An Arbitrator is a Judge who is appointed by the private party whereas a Judge is appointed by the state. Recently, there was a case in the UK Supreme Court (Hashwani v Jivraj) which my firm had handled where the issue was whether an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties. The English Court of Appeal said yes an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties but the UK Supreme Court reversed their decision and held that an Arbitrator is not an employee and he perform the same function as a Judge.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the nature of maritime disputes and how they are unique?

    A substantial part of the international trade of goods and commodities takes place by transporting of those goods by ocean going vessels. In the course of the voyage, often goods get damaged because of dampness in the vessels hold or seepage of sea water in the hold. The other types of dispute which generally arises relates to charter party disputes which includes demurrage disputes, bill of lading disputes, General Average and collision at sea disputes. I have had the privilege of handling all of these types of disputes. India’s first success in the House of Lords in a commercial case concerned the vessel called La Pintada. In this case the charterer was the President of India and he paid demurrage some two years late. The owners of the vessel commenced Arbitration claiming interest on a three month compounded rate basis arguing that they had lost the use of money by the delayed payment. The Arbitrator made an award of compound interest in onus favour. The High Court sent the award back to the Arbitrator for reconsideration on the basis that the award sought to make charterer an involuntary banker. The Arbitrator once again confirmed the award which he had previously made. When Indian Government challenged the award once again in the Commercial Court, the Court referred it straight to the Supreme Court for decision. The House of Lords unanimously decided in Indian Government’s favour. This was a test case because in those years of foreign exchange crisis, Indian Government always paid freight and demurrage late and if India had lost in the House of Lords, they would have had to have paid over £5 million in compound interest because other ship owners would then be claiming compound interest for late payment. Incidentally in this case, the Barrister my firm had instructed was Tony Blair who later on went on to become the Prime Minister of the UK. Please see 1983 1 Lloyds page 39.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the Tibet dispute as well as the efforts being undertaken to resolve it? 

    (Sarosh was appointed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to mediate with the Chinese government in order to resolve the Tibet dispute.)

    I am a qualified CEDR (Centre for International Dispute Resolution) Mediator. For many years my firm acted for PRC Government in their international Arbitration cases. My firm had an office in Beijing for twelve years. We represented CNPC, CPECC, CPTDC and Min Metals in five major international Arbitrations. Chinese Embassy had heard about my firms successes for Indian Government and the then Chinese Ambassador in 1991 had a meeting with me and asked me to assist China to set up in China a legal system which could work internationally. The Embassy sponsored a trip for me to visit Beijing in December 1991. In 1994, I facilitated a second channel dialogue between 10 Downing Street and the central committee of Chinese communist party on misunderstanding which had arisen concerning the agreement to hand over Hong Kong to China. This was a successful dialogue. Thereafter, my relations with Chinese Government became very friendly and my firm got a lot of legal work from Chinese state corporations.

    A few years later, Mrs. Takla, the representative of Dalai Lama contacted me.  She told me that Dalai Lama was going to visit Glasgow very soon and he would like to meet me. Accordingly, a private meeting was arranged for me in Glasgow with Dalai Lama. I was told by Mrs Takla that Dalai Lama would like me to facilitate a second channel dialogue with China to resolve the dispute between him and China relating to Tibet as he would like to go back to his home, Tibet.

    I informed the Chinese Ambassador about the Dalai Lama’s request for a meeting and before meeting Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador in London. The Ambassador put forward China’s position and told me that one of the things which concerned China was that Dalai Lama was writing forwards to books written where the author claimed that half of China was Tibet. It was a great pleasure and honour to meet Dalai Lama on a one to one basis. I found him to be very frank and honest. He told me that his intelligence had told him that I was one non-Chinese person in the West whom the PRC Government had complete trust and confidence. He sought my help for a second channel dialogue to resolve the Tibet issue.  I told him that China was concerned about his writing forwards to books which claimed half of China was Tibet. Dalai Lama’s response was that he had no option but to do this because his Tibetan people had lived in those parts of China for centuries and it was historically part of Tibet. In a moving gesture, Dalai Lama took my hand and put it on his heart and said, “I trust you”.

    After my meeting with Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador and told him that it would be in China’s interest to resolve the issue with Dalai Lama as he was no longer claiming independence for Tibet. Furthermore , I was aware of the communist Chinas policy towards religion which was that religion was now being permitted provided it was not controlled from outside China. In Dalai Lama’s case, he would be involved in religion from Lahasa, the capital of Tibet which was now part of China. The Ambassador told me that he would communicate his discussion with me to China. A further meeting was arranged between me and the Chinese representative and I was told that the Dalai Lama’s brother had been invited to China for discussion and there was no need for a second channel to take place through me.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the process of framing arguments and the experience of arguing before the EU court?

    (Sarosh’s was the first firm to successfully challenge the listing of Iranian companies under Iranian Nuclear Sanctions before the EU court.)

    This is correct. Bank Mellat which was Iran’s largest private bank, had challenged the sanctions in the High Court and had lost. Thereafter, Bank Mellat appealed and the Court dismissed the appeal. Bank Mellat’s former Solicitors, Stephenson Harwood, had told Bank Mellat that there was little prospect of Bank Mellat getting leave to appeal from the Supreme Court. I was one of the Solicitors Bank Mellat met with a view to deciding who to instruct for their attempt to appeal to the Supreme Court. I had earlier acted in a major Arbitration for National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) and had turned around what they had been advised was a hopeless defence in an Arbitration case and was successful for NIOC. So the legal director of NIOC had mentioned my name to Bank Mellat and recommended my firm. The rest is history, we were successful before nine out of the total twelve Judges of the UK Supreme Court. The Supreme Court held that the UK Government had acted unlawfully and irrationally to list Bank Mellat in the list of companies supporting Iran’s nuclear proliferation and to whom the sanctions would apply.

    The Supreme Court referred the matter to the High Court to calculate damages and Bank Mellat is currently pursuing a claim of USD 4 billion for damages in the UK Court for wrongful listing of Bank Mellat on the nuclear sanctions list. It was also the first time that the UK Supreme Court went into a closed, secret hearing on grounds of national security. The trial of this claim is fixed by the English Court for October 2018.

     

    You are a member of all major arbitration institutions. What is your preferred forum? 

    My preferred forum for international Arbitration is either London Court for International Arbitration (LCIA) or International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce, Paris (ICC). I was a member of the International Court of Arbitration for twelve years representing India. An equally efficient forum and possibly less expensive would be for parties to simply agree London as a seat of Arbitration as this would save the administrative costs of the institutions and the Arbitration would be under direct supervision of the English Court in case something goes wrong in the Arbitration.

     

    Do you think India has the potential to become a major arbitration hub? 

    Yes, India has great potential to become a major international Arbitration hub but India has a long way to go to achieve this goal. A small country like Singapore has within a few years built up a popular international Arbitration centre and there is no reason why India cannot do so. The international centres of Arbitrations are made by good reputation and law. Reputation is a question of perception. Arbitration in India today does not enjoy a good international reputation. There are rumours of corruption amongst the Arbitrators. I am sure this rumour is unlikely to be true but one must recognise that even one case of corruption poisons the reputation of the whole Arbitration culture in India. I have had many meetings with those who manage international Arbitration in India, including with Mr Arun Jaitley and at each of these meetings I have said that the risk of corruption in the international Arbitration in India cannot be eradicated by passing of law eradicated by self-regulation in the Arbitrators community and the legal profession. Another minus point for international Arbitration in India is the perceived monopoly appointment of retired Judges who then conduct the Arbitration as if it was Court proceedings with adjournments being granted for asking. The new Indian Arbitration Act has restricted Court intervention in the Arbitration process which is a good step forward for India.

     

    International Arbitration is considered a difficult field to break into. Can you describe your journey in becoming such an authority in this field? 

    This is correct. So far, the international Arbitrators community has been an elite circle where one supports the other with the consequence that a newcomer is not easily accepted unless he blends in by accepting to begin with a second class status. The selection of Arbitrator is an important task. He should be a person with good legal and commercial law experience. The task of a party appointed Arbitrator is not to favour his appointer but he has a duty to ensure that his appointer’s points are considered by the whole Tribunal at the time of making the decision. I have found that many times, Indian parties appoint retired Judges in the international Arbitration and they are indeed very clever but they are not able to communicate with the co-Arbitrators properly, who are normally from developed countries. Often, retired Indian Judges who are product of the British imperialist culture, have enormous egos about their status. Let me give one example.

    I was appointed by the Danish company Volund to be their nominated Arbitrator in the early 90’s. The Arbitration concerned construction of a power plant in Timarpur near Delhi whose fuel would be New Delhi waste. In other words, the power plant would be converting New Delhi waste into energy. The project was supported by Danish aid agency (DANIDA). After the power plant was constructed, it was found that New Delhi waste did not have sufficient calorific heat to be used as fuel for the power plant. India appointed Mr Pathak as their Arbitrator. He was a former Chief Justice of India and retired Judge of the international Court of Justice in The Hague. The third Arbitrator and the Chairman of the Tribunal was Lord McKenzie Stuart, a former Chief Justice of the European Court. He was appointed by the International Court of Arbitration.

    On the first day of the hearing I got a note passed to me by Chief Justice Pathak which said, “You have insulted me by sitting on the right of the Chairman, I am senior to you so I should be sitting on the right of the Chairman and you should be sitting on the left”. I immediately passed the note to the Chairman with a suggestion that he adjourns the hearing for five minutes so that I can change over. He sent the note back to me saying “stay where you are”. In England or in Europe in international Arbitrations it does not matter which side the Arbitrator sits. During the coffee break, Lord McKenzie Stuart told Chief Justice Pathak that it does not matter where the Arbitrator sits and he jokingly told Chief Justice Pathak, “Don’t be a fool”. The Chief Justice took offence to this and throughout the two weeks hearing he did not utter a word and did not speak with Lord McKenzie Stuart throughout the Arbitration reference thereafter.

    The way to break into the field of international Arbitration is to first attach with a law firm or an advocate who is already handling international Arbitrations and then attend international Arbitration conferences.

     

    Can you describe your work as a solicitor in England?

    A Solicitor in London prepares the case and instructs the Counsel to argue it before the Court. It is now also possible in commercial cases for Solicitors to appear in Court as Advocates, I have done so on many occasions. My firm and I are known for difficult cases where client comes to us after they have been told by the Magic Circle firms that their claim or case is very bad.

    Two examples of this are the international Arbitration award by International Arbitration Court in The Hague which made an award of USD 50 million against the Russian Federation in the Yukos shareholders claim. Russia came to me for an out of box approach for Russia challenging the award in the Dutch Court. Sometime before this, an Indian Government company PEC Limited had come to me and they had an award of USD 8 million against them. On the face of it they had no defence because they had participated in the Arbitration and also the appeal process of GAFTA Arbitration and had lost. I took the point that although English law applied in the contract, the contract was signed by the Director of PEC on behalf of PEC and whether he had authority to do so would be governed by Indian law. Under Indian law, for a Government contract there are rules and for a USD 25 million contract you require two Director’s signatures.

    PEC therefore through my firm argued that the Arbitration agreement was void because the contract was void. In the English Court on the question of Indian law we led the evidence of Mr. Soli Sorabjee, former Attorney General of India and the other side which was a Thailand company, Asia Golden Rise, led the evidence of Mr. Harish Salve. Both of these eminent jurists were cross examined in open Court and the Court preferred the evidence of Mr Sorabjee. This changed the prevalent law.

    The second example was the case of Indian Oil Corporation (IOC) v Coastal Bermuda where IOC had participated in the London Arbitration defending a huge claim of some USD 18 million. The Arbitrators decided against Indian Oil Corporation but one of the Arbitrators, Mr. Gordon Pollock QC, added a post-script to this decision suggesting that Indian Oil’s legal team was not competent and if the team had been competent, the result may well have been different. My firm did not act for IOC in the Arbitration but they came to me after all the big law firms and Queen’s Counsel had told IOC that they had no chance of challenging the award. My firm challenged the award on an innovative ground that the award could be enforced as a judgment of the English Court and for the English Court to enforce a judgment which was not based on the two legal analysis of the evidence would be against English public policy. The English Court accepted this and remitted the award back to the Arbitrators and in its judgment said, “Finality is good but justice is better”. Indian Oil Corporation v Coastal Bermuda [1990] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 407.

     

    Where do you stand on the “two hat” debate over whether arbitrators should also act as counsel? 

    There is really no problem. When I am appointed as an Arbitrator, if there is a conflict I will not accept appointment. International Arbitration is a field with many important debates currently going on, with many suggesting reforms such as Bilateral Arbitration Treaty (Gary Born), regulating the ethical conduct of counsels (Swiss Arbitration Association, London Court of International Arbitration).

     

    Could you discuss the aforementioned suggestions and your take on them or any such significant debates?

    The most important reform which is required is the need of diversity in the clique of international Arbitrators. The current international Arbitrators must be prepared to accept competent Arbitrators in the circle of international Arbitrations. Statistics show that the present international institutions generally favour appointing white Arbitrators from developed countries. This needs to change.

     

    How do you remain updated with all the new developments in the field of international arbitration and mediation?

    There are at present many press and internet mediums which keeps me informed on all the new developments in the field of international Arbitration and Mediation.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Always act with integrity and remember the legal profession is an honourable profession and honesty and fairness is the most important duty of a lawyer. The policy which I follow is that I can play with the law because the Judge is there to reject or accept my submissions on law but not under any circumstances play with the facts. If I find that the client has told me a lie in his instructions I would refuse to act for that client. I would not make up stories or allegations on behalf of a client simply to support the client’s case. This approach breads both character and increases credibility before Judges. The five mantras for law students, I would suggest, are:

    • Have a vision on where you want the business to go.
    • Have integrity and honest approach in the work you do.
    • Have courage to have an open mind and an out-of-box approach to progress the business.
    • Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes.
    • Forgive people for any wrongdoings against you, and leave it to the universe to deal with them.
  • Rajendra Misra, Senior VP-General Counsel, Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, on IPR, and his diverse experience

    Rajendra Misra, Senior VP-General Counsel, Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, on IPR, and his diverse experience

    Rajendra Misra graduated in law from University of Calcutta, in 1991. After successful stints at Indal, Dunlop India Limited, ITC Limited, and Hindustan Unilever Limited, he is currently Senior VP-General Counsel at Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris. Mr. Misra is the chief legal advisor to the CEO and Board, advising on legal implications of business issues, proactively spotting prospective legal issues, counselling the executive management on legal and regulatory aspects etc. His role encompasses Strategic Litigation planning, Litigation management, selecting and supervising outside counsel, driving strategic initiatives to achieve business objectives while also ensuring adequate protection of legal rights of the organization, building strategic partnerships and alliances with outside counsel and attorneys, Risk minimization and Risk management, developing a Compliance culture, Corporate governance, process improvements, using technology as a tool for efficient management of the function, and developing and managing the team.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His role in ushering in crucial reforms at Taj
    • Receiving accolades such as “GC Powerlist: India 2016″, “Trailblazers: India’s Finest In-house Counsels” by the Indian Corporate Counsel Association, among others
    • His illustrious experience spanning 26 years

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I come from a family of lawyers. My father started his law practice in Kolkata. My sister is a practising lawyer at the Calcutta High Court. I have several relatives as well practising law. I consider myself to be a student of law. I have spent 26 years in the legal field; however, the field is vast, law is ever evolving, and every day one is learning new things. The quest of knowledge is unending, and I am always keen to learn more.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field? 

    Even before I could understand its true meaning, the expression “Possession is nine points of law” fascinated me! I probably heard it from my father. I think it is the discussions between my father and my sister on legal issues which got me interested in law. Gradually, as my interest in law grew, I decided to make it my career. And once I made the decision, I pursued it seriously.

     

    How was your experience in law school? 

    We were one of the initial batches of the integrated five year law course. Typically, the law schools teach you basics of law, laying the foundation. The other thing which you are introduced to is analytical thinking, debating etc., all of which help one later in life. During law school days, Constitutional Law, Contracts and Conveyancing were my subjects of interest. I believe it is extremely important for the students to supplement the knowledge from law school with practical experience gathered through internships. Even as I was studying law, I used to regularly attend the chamber of a Senior Advocate in Calcutta as a trainee. I used to make it a point to attend college, and then attend court post lunch, followed by attending chamber in the evening. Watching the proceedings in court was a great learning. Carrying on research work at the chamber was also a learning experience. I learnt early on the merits of being precise while drafting, that it always pays to say less and be precise, rather than say more and be rambling. Even before completing my law course, I had the privilege of assisting my senior in a case of copyright infringement. I had not read up on copyrights earlier and IPR was not in our curriculum. I researched the subject and found it interesting – very different from the regular property, inheritance and other civil cases. I think that exposure resulted in my interest in Intellectual Property Rights later.

     

    Was the decision to work as an in-house counsel as opposed to working at a law firm a conscious one? 

    I was always interested in a counsel practice, as opposed to working at a law firm. As such, I never really considered the option of working in a law firm. I firmly believe that the decision whether to work in a law firm, or as a counsel or as an in-house counsel is an individual decision, and each one should decide on the basis of his/her interests.

    So how did the movement from counsel practice to in-house counsel happen? Fairly early in my law career, Indian Aluminium Company, Limited (Indal) was looking to recruit an in-house counsel to handle their major legal cases. My father suggested I should consider applying. While initially I was a bit hesitant, he encouraged me to explore. I must say that I had never done an internship in an in-house legal department, and as such this was like walking into the unknown, taking a leap of faith. But I did take the plunge, and have never regretted it. It perhaps helped that Indal wanted me to handle its major legal cases. Therefore, I was never far away from litigation, courts and counsel. Gradually, of course, other aspects of the in-house counsel role also grew on me.

     

    You undertook the Hawkesmere course on IPR in London, and have a Postgraduate Diploma in Patent Law. Can you tell our readers about this course?

    Both these courses were part of the effort to continuously upgrade professional knowledge, and were extremely relevant at the respective point of time.

    A couple of years into my career in ITC, I was given additional responsibility of supervising the IP Cell. Following this, I had gone to London for the Hawkesmere Course on International Intellectual Property Law. Hawkesmere used to conduct such courses aimed towards Continuous Professional Development of executives. This was a two day intensive course, and gave a great insight into various aspects of international IP law, which was very relevant at a time when the IP laws around the world were evolving following the TRIPs agreement.

    Around 2005-06, ITC began diversifying into the Personal Care business. While I was heading its IP Cell, we were mainly into Trademarks and Copyrights. But with the diversification into the Personal Care business, we also began filing patent applications. So I decided to take up the Post Graduate Diploma in Patents Law course of NALSAR. This course was a mix of proximate education and on campus sessions. It was a wonderful way of undergoing training in patents law while working. The faculty was good and experienced. One got a great insight into patents. We had to research and submit two papers on patents as part of the PG Diploma course. The tough part, of course, was balancing work and learning. That was compounded by the fact that I was taking up studying nearly twenty years after having left college. Our professors had sound words of advice for those of us who were taking up studies after a long time – apart from training us on patents, we were also advised to practise handwriting, because twenty years after college, one tends to lose the practice of writing by hand, and it is not easy to write a two hour exam without first building up writing speed!

     

    What got you interested in the field of IPR?

    My introduction to the world of IPR was through a copyright infringement case on which I assisted my senior during my internship. We did not have Intellectual Property law as part of the law curriculum, and hence, this was then a totally alien field for me. But I enjoyed researching and working on this case. Later, when I began heading the IP Cell of ITC, my interests in this field of law grew further. The late 90s and early 2000s were momentous years for Intellectual Property Law in India, with India overhauling its IP laws after acceding to the TRIPs agreement. This is when the IP law really evolved in the country, and companies began putting greater focus on management and protection of their intellectual property. This field of law is really fascinating. Protecting brand names and logos is now extremely common place. However, with the new Trademarks Act, the ambit of trademarks has really expanded, and it is possible to protect sound, 3D marks, colour combinations etc. as trademarks. There is enormous scope to do innovative work in this area, and I believe that the potential of unconventional trademarks is waiting to be realised, particularly for FMCG companies, media organizations etc. who are extremely focussed on protection of their IP. Another interesting area is of Geographical Indications. I had a great exposure to this subject several years back in ITC when we were embroiled in a litigation relating to the GI Darjeeling, where the plaintiffs tried unsuccessfully to stop a hotel lounge by the name Darjeeling. The awareness of this new area of IP is increasing day by day, and recently I was delighted to find that a society of weavers in Kasaragod had registered a GI for Kasaragod sarees! The other area of IP which has great potential is patents. However, a good grasp of scientific knowledge gives a distinct advantage in this field. We must remember that at this point of time, the Indian economy has the potential to become the world’s third largest economy by the next decade, and one of the two largest economies by mid-century. The International Monetary Fund describes the Indian economy as the “bright spot” in the global landscape. As the economy grows and businesses expand, IPR will continue to become more and more important, and this will give tremendous opportunities to lawyers and law students.

     

    What would be your advice to our readers undecided about pursuing higher education? 

    Life is a process of continuous learning. My advice would be not to lose any opportunity of learning. If there is an opportunity of pursuing higher education in a field of interest, I would earnestly urge the readers to avail it. Particularly, if you get it before the start of, or early on in the career. I acknowledge that it may not be easy to pursue higher education later in the career. But, as they say, if there is a will, there is a way. My courses undertaken in mid-career were extremely relevant to my roles, and hence, I benefited greatly from undergoing the courses. I guess the key in such cases is relevance and interest.

    What was your first job after law school? 

    Even as I was attending law school, I used to attend the chambers of a senior counsel in Kolkata, interning and learning the ways of courts. So post qualifying, I commenced going to court. In 1993 however, Indian Aluminium Company, Limited (Indal), a subsidiary of Alcan, Canada was looking for a legal resource to handle their major legal issues, which were till then being handled by a Dy. Company Secretary, who was due for retirement. I remember going for the interview in the most casual manner – straight from court without any preparation and wearing only a jacket and no tie – only to find to my horror several candidates immaculately dressed in suits and ties, seriously reading business newspapers and waiting to be called for the interview. I don’t know what my interviewer and future boss saw in me, because out of the many candidates, he chose a greenhorn like me for the assignment. God bless him for that choice, because thus began my journey as inhouse counsel in some of the topnotch companies.

    It was a blessing in disguise that a few months after my joining, a library-full of files landed on my head – all relating to the major legal cases of Indal. These were high value litigations relating to electricity laws and mining laws. The best of legal brains of the country were appearing for Indal in these matters, and very early in my career I came to interact with them, initially with a sense of awe, but followed quickly by confidence, even as I saw and learnt from their discipline for this great profession. Several months down the line, Indal went for a Euro issue, and that pitched me in front of US lawyers, defending the major litigations of Indal and assuring them that all was under control and that Indal had good merits in these cases – something which I did with confidence, earning the Managing Director’s special award in the process. I handled my first merger transaction at Indal, when we merged a power generation company, which was a subsidiary of Indal, with the parent company.

    Given that Indal was my first job, apart from learning about corporate law, I also learnt corporate language (very different from the language used in pleadings!), corporate behaviour and corporate dynamics at Indal. The early experiences in Indal transformed me from a counsel to a corporate lawyer. I learnt the importance of dispensing with legal jargon and talking/writing in simple language which is understood by business/non-lawyers. The Indal stint also introduced me to the fact that as in-house counsel, I should be looking at the business aspect of an issue apart from its legal aspects – the fact that legal manager has two facets – ‘legal’ and ‘manager’ – and the in-house counsel has to consider both legal and business aspects in order to arrive at a fine balance, serving the business interests of the organization while remaining within the boundaries of law.

     

    Can you tell us about your time at ITC?

    It was during 1997 that ITC was looking to augment strength in their Legal Department. I was then based out of Kolkata, and for any legal professional in Kolkata, ITC was a dream job. Therefore, when they offered to recruit me, without batting an eyelid I joined them. The ITC journey was a tremendous one. Fairly early in my ITC stint, I began partnering the Tobacco business, the largest business of ITC. Over time, as they spun off newer businesses, I got the opportunity of advising the newer businesses as well, helping them find their feet the right way, ensuring legal compliance even as the businesses grew, acquiring new brands, manufacturing facilities and companies for the organic and inorganic growth of the new businesses. Thus began my association with the Foods business, the Personal Care business, the Lifestyle Retailing business, the Matches & Agarbatti businesses, and the Stationery business – very diverse businesses. Even while doing so, I continued to partner the Tobacoo business, which had its own set of challenges, Tobacco being a heavily regulated industry.

    ITC takes IP management very seriously, and it was my privilege to lead their IP Cell too. While during the Tobacoo/Foods/LRBD days, management of Trademarks and Copyrights was the dominant theme, the advent of Personal Care business also brought with it experience in handling Patents management. The most interesting thing was that with newer businesses being spun off, we also learnt on the job. Overall, it was a great time, with huge learnings. In many ways, we used to operate as an in-house law firm. We used to do a lot of drafting in-house – agreements as well as pleadings. We also used to do a lot of research in-house, and ITC had an excellent library of legal journals, law books, as well as legal research software like Manupatra, SCC Online, Excus, PTC, etc. to enable research. And, we used to take an active part in briefing counsel in our legal cases. With our drafting and research, we used to support our counsel and solicitors in a big way, something which was well appreciated by them.

    The Tobacco business came up with innovative ways of advertising – it was the role of the Legal function to ensure that the business always remained within the four corners of law. Being a highly regulated industry, the Tobacco business took compliance with legal requirements extremely seriously, and the Legal voice was heard with respect. With the new businesses, I got the opportunity of creating and protecting new brands, acquiring new brands, negotiating and closing with new manufacturing facilities, sometimes buying new manufacturing facilities. The best part was the acquisition of a bio-technology company which was into production of seed potatoes, with manufacturing facilities in multiple countries. Due diligence in multiple jurisdictions, and structuring the transaction was extremely challenging. I distinctly remember the night prior to Closing, when we stayed up the entire night finalizing the transaction documents, to seal the deal at 10 o’clock in the morning. It was a tremendous experience.

    As the years went by and my responsibilities increased, so did my levels. I moved on from being Asst. Manager – Legal to Asst. Solicitor to Associate General Counsel. From a solo start, the ITC stint gave me the experience of managing a team. I had a great time working with fantastic business leaders, excellent mentors, fine peers and a great team. Finally, after spending 14 years in the organization, I had a feeling that I had done all that was to be done in Kolkata and in ITC. I got an urge to spread the wings and fly away out of Kolkata, all the way to the western shores of the country – to its commercial capital. I was looking out when HUL called. And that was a dream assignment, too difficult to refuse.

     

    How did your appointment at HUL happen?

    Unilever is a great organization. It is the king of marketing in the country. In 2011, HUL was looking for a senior legal resource for heading its legal team partnering the personal care and homecare businesses, the largest of its businesses, representing more than 75% of its turnover. It was my privilege that they selected me for the role. I became a part of the HUL Leadership team and the Legal Leadership team. Unilever is a powerhouse of great leaders. It would not be wrong to say that Unilever “manufactures” leaders, some of whom occupy some very senior positions across the industry today. It was a great time at Unilever, working and collaborating with some of the finest brains in the business today.

    Over time, my role in Unilever grew. In addition to leading the legal team partnering the personal care and homecare business, I also got the charge to supervise the Legal team of Lakme Lever Ltd., a subsidiary of HUL. Later, the Water business and Kimberly Clarke Lever Ltd. also got added to my profile. Over time, in addition to my above responsibilities, I also became the Global Legal Counsel for Lifebuoy and Fair & Lovely, two iconic brands of Unilever, apart from discharging the role as Brand Development Counsel for the entire South Asia region. I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my role in Unilever. The learnings were immense. Interacting with the best legal brains across the Unilever universe, one picked up global best practices, and came to learn about new and upcoming fields of law. The business teams in Unilever are demanding and one has to be nimble to manage them, and it was a joy working as a team. One of the most important things which Unilever experience brought out was the risk-taking appetite, something extremely crucial for the business. The best part was that Unilever gives you complete freedom in your job profile – the canvas is yours to paint. Another fantastic thing was that I had a young, energetic and dynamic team. Interacting with such a young and dynamic group was great and challenging at the same time. It kept you young and contemporary, but at the same time you also had to be several steps ahead of them. It was a joy mentoring these bright young legal minds.

    At Unilever, I had the opportunity to look at, frame and defend some cutting edge product claims and advertising. The most memorable was a comparative advertising, where we showed the competitor’s product and claimed that our product was better than theirs. It was risky, but it was a calculated risk we took, and one which was worth taking, given that our product was truly cutting edge and better than competition. Therefore, the claim was factually correct, through it ran the risk of a competitive challenge. During the planning stage, I advised the business group that we should expect the competitor to take the battle to courts. I made intelligent guesses, and was able to accurately anticipate the court where they could file the legal challenge, and prepared counsel in advance so that we were in a position to defend our claims. My forecast proved correct, and we got locked in a fierce competitive battle with the competitor. We succeeded in defending our claims and in keeping the comparative advertising going for a long period of time despite the competitor’s attempts to shut us out. This campaign is a landmark in the history of comparative advertising in the country.

    The other memorable piece of work was acquisition of a natural ayurvedic medicine brand and product for Unilever. With the rise in demand for natural products, and growth of new competitors in this field, Unilever set about acquiring this natural ayurvedic medicine brand and product line, and I was in the thick of due diligence and negotiations with the promoters of the product/brand, and we worked out a great deal for the company. Unfortunately, before we could ink the deal, I quit to move on to Taj, but it gave me immense satisfaction when the deal was finally concluded soon thereafter. It is a matter of pride to see the product on the shelf. Incidentally, this was not the first brand/product line purchase for me. I had done quite a few in ITC as well. And, today when I see these products on the shelf in retail stores, I feel immense pride in having been associated with these acquisitions, and have great stories to tell about them to my children.

    Towards the end of 2015, Taj was looking to appoint a Senior Vice President – General Counsel on its Executive Committee – the highest executive body just below the Board of Directors of the company. When Taj gave me an offer to join their Executive Committee, reporting to the Managing Director, and overseeing the Legal & Secretarial functions, it was a great offer. During my professional career, I have always valued professionalism and high moral standards in an organization. Both Unilever and ITC are extremely professional companies, with high ethical standards. Taj and the Tata group are universally admired for their great professionalism and high ethical standards. Therefore, the organizational profile was a perfect fit. The role was also very interesting and challenging. Apart from supervising my function, sitting on the Executive Committee also gives me a great experience in understanding and analysing business issues, appreciating legal issues in a business context, prioritizing legal issues accordingly, and taking risk calls for business growth. Therefore, I decided to take the plunge and join Taj – a decision which I haven’t since regretted. Today, apart from being a member of the Executive Committee of Taj, I am also a Director on the Board of TajGVK Hotels & Resorts Ltd., a listed company which is a joint venture between Taj and GVK group.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the reforms you brought in Taj during your time there?

    At the Taj, we deal with a lot of contracts, under which we have valuable rights in respect of our 100 plus hotels. Contract management is an important area for us. In the modern world, contracts tracking on Excel sheets is sub-optimal and does not work. With advancement in technology, it was important that we use technology to our advantage in managing our important contracts. Hence, I deployed a Contract Management software at Taj. It serves as an archive of all our hotel management contracts and other important contracts, and also tracks contract renewal dates and auto-generates alerts for the team, ensuring timely renewals, and risk mitigation.

    The next issue was ensuring uniformity of contracts across the organization. My team is spread over multiple locations. It is crucial that everyone in the team follows standardized contract templates, instead of digging into personal drives and using different contract formats. Hence, I constituted a Task Force to standardize about 25 of our main contracts. We spent a lot of time discussing and debating the changes to these contracts. And, we did this inhouse because we believe that being closest to the business, we were the most equipped to standardize our contracts keeping in mind our business requirements and challenges. Once standardization happened, we uploaded the standard versions of the contracts on the Contract Management software so that everyone uses the same format, regardless of location. This ensures consistency of contracts, and has minimized risks for the organization.

    Laws impact everyone in the organization, and increased legal awareness leads to greater compliance and lesser risk exposures; hence, it is important to spread legal awareness within the organization. Here again, I decided to use technology to our advantage. We have developed e-learning modules (Learning Management System or LMS) for our employees on five crucial subjects – Data Privacy & Protection, POSH, Competition Law, Insider Trading, and Related Party Transactions. These are interactive e-learning modules which will explain legal topics in very simple terms and with examples for the non-legal employees.

    The Taj group had deployed a Compliance Management system at its units. I have now commenced Gap analysis, which is in the nature of an audit that will help us identify and fill up gaps, if any, in the compliance management by individual units. This will further strengthen the compliance management within the organization.

    Similarly, Taj was in the process of deploying Litigation management software and Intellectual Property management software. We went full throttle in order to operationalize them on priority basis. All Taj litigations and IPR have now been uploaded onto the Litigation management software and the Intellectual Property management software, leading to better management of litigations and IPR.

    I believe that with all the above measures, people in the organization can sleep better, assured that we are doing the right thing, in the right way and that our risks are getting minimized.

    You pioneered an initiative which led to the Taj Mahal Hotel building in Mumbai being India’s first building to secure a trademark for the image of the hotel. Can you tell our readers about how you achieved this?

    The image trademark registration was a result of a combination of many factors, my fascination with unconventional trademarks being one. The other was the constant feeling of what more one can do to protect the rights of my organization, and how can I ring fence it better. Yet another was the desire to create value for the organization, because I believe that the Legal Department is not just a cost-centre, it can also create value for the organization. The Taj Mahal Palace, Mumbai is the iconic flagship of Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, and is a defining structure of Mumbai’s skyline. The distinctive red-tiled Florentine Gothic dome of the hotel, which crowns the elegant Indo-Saracenic arches and architraves of the iconic hotel, sits 240 feet above street level. Since 16th December, 1903, when the hotel first opened its doors to guests, its striking dome has been the triangulation point for the Indian Navy to guide them in the harbor. It is widely recognised as the temple of hospitality. I do not need a signboard on this iconic property for the public to know that it is the Taj hotel. One look at the property and you know that it is The Taj Mahal Palace, representing the finest in Indian hospitality traditions. To my mind, that is exactly what a Trademark is. Therefore, I went about securing this image trademark registration. After conceiving this idea, I presented it to the Managing Director and my peers at the Executive Committee, who enthusiastically supported it. We got the trademark applications filed through Anand & Anand, the top notch intellectual property law firm in the country. The applications were pursued on top priority, and we were able to secure the registration in 7 months. I must say that a stellar role was played by the Trademarks Registry and by Anand & Anand in prosecuting the applications and securing the registrations. Often, people who are part of a historic moment do not realise that they are creating history, and I daresay that most of the people who participated in the process may not have realised the significance of the moment. But history it certainly was – we had become the first Indian building to have secured image trademark registration. Only a few iconic buildings across the world have been able to secure such registration – the Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building and the Sydney Opera House to name some. With this image trademark registration, the iconic Taj Mahal Palace, Mumbai became a member of this unique and elite club – the first Indian building to do so. As an Indian, that swells my heart with pride. As an employee of The Taj group and Tata group, it makes me immensely happy that I have been able to get such a unique protection and status for our legendary hotel. This is a very unusual and unconventional trademark, and the outcome of a pioneering effort. Many organizations register brands and logos as trademarks. However, the scope of “trademark” is much beyond mere brands and logos. Sound, images, colour combinations, 3D images etc. can also be registered as trademarks. Such unconventional trademarks can create great value for organizations, representing its USP. And, being beyond the conventional, they can become great talking points for organizations.

     

    Can you tell our readers about IBHA’s role in the industry? 

    (Mr. Misra has been the chairman of Indian Beauty and Hygiene Association.)

    IBHA is the premier industry association representing reputed personal care/beauty/FMCG companies in the country, viz. HUL, P&G, L’Oreal, Marico, Dabur etc. IBHA plays a key role in advocacy on behalf of the industry with the government. I was Chairman of the Legal Committee of IBHA, and used to play a very active role on various industry issues. We made representations to the government on various issues impacting the industry. I strategized and handled several legal issues/litigations on behalf of the personal care industry. In my capacity as the Chairman of its Legal Committee, I was the Legal advisor to the Executive Committee of IBHA, which comprised of the Personal Care Director of HUL, COO of L’Oreal, MD of Godrej Consumer Products, CEO of ITC’s Personal Care business etc. It was most wonderful interacting with these industry captains, advising them on the legal issues impacting the industry.

     

    You have often been recognised as one of the finest in-house counsels in India. What are the qualities required to succeed as an in house counsel? 

    It has been an honour to have got recognition from such leading organizations as The Legal 500 and the ICCA. To succeed as an in-house counsel, one needs several qualities. First and foremost, one needs to have an analytical mind, and should be capable of making dispassionate analysis of issues. Together with legal knowledge, one should have a good understanding of the business of the organization. Risk-taking appetite is an extremely important quality which an in-house counsel should have. An in-house counsel should be solution-oriented, providing the business with solutions to their problems rather than raising the red flag on everything. It is also extremely important that he should be able to speak out his mind without fear or favour, keeping the interest of the organization and all stakeholders over everything else. Above all, an in-house counsel should have the ability to balance the business and legal aspects, and achieve the optimum balance which will ensure that the organization achieves its business objectives without compromising on legalities.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today?

    One issue which readily comes to mind is the growth challenge in Kolkata. As I mentioned earlier, after 14 years in ITC, I had a feeling that I had done everything possible in ITC and in Kolkata. I was born and brought up in the city, and always worked there. However, at that point of time, I was faced with the situation that if I had to grow my career further, I had to leave my city of birth and move to unknown pastures. Having spent 40 years in a city, that is not an easy decision to take. However, I took the bold decision to quit my job at ITC, and leave my city of birth to move to HUL in Mumbai. At that point of time, it was very unsettling. However, in retrospect, I am glad that I took the decision to move out. My movement to different organizations has given me the opportunity to expand my knowledge and experience. Over time, I have learnt that change is a constant. There is always risk in change; however, as they say, “A ship is safe in harbour, but that is not what ships are meant for.”

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in?

    It is extremely important to stay updated about the latest developments in the legal field. I once came across the statement ,“If the rate of change outside is greater than the rate of change inside, then you become redundant”. That to me underlines the importance of keeping oneself updated with the latest. The world today is changing faster than ever, with new developments coming about everyday. It is important that our knowledge keeps pace with this fast-paced development all around us. Keeping oneself updated also enables one to correctly analyse a situation and advise in any given scenario. Latest changes in the legal field can be gleaned from various sources, viz. the media, professional social media, legal journals, Manupatra alerts, Google alerts etc., as also from participating in various professional knowledge-sharing groups. I also attend conferences and seminars on topics of interest in order to keep myself updated.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    A career in law is a great one to take up. Knowledge is the most important asset of professionals. My advice to college students would be to keep increasing their bandwidth of knowledge. Do internships at good organizations and keep gathering new experience.

     

  • Sudipta Routh, Partner, SAMVAD: Partners, on Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt Capital Markets

    Sudipta Routh, Partner, SAMVAD: Partners, on Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt Capital Markets

    Sudipta Routh graduated in law from NLS, Bangalore, in 1996. After successful stints at ICI India (now part of AkzoNobel NV) and Trilegal, he went on to pursue his Masters at Queen Mary, Univ. of London, batch of 2006. Since then, he has worked with Clifford Chance, Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, and founded Agram Legal Consultants. He is currently Partner at SAMVAD: Partners, where his role entails Mergers & Amalgamations, Foreign Investments & Joint Ventures, Cross-Border Banking and Finance, Trade Finance, Debt Capital Markets (Domestic and International), Corporate Advisory.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His internships
    • His extensive experience at Tier-I firms
    • His current role at SAMVAD: Partners

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a science student I did the usual things science students did back then, many entrance exams. It helped that my CET scores were mostly non-reportable. I was surprised when I came in thirteenth in the NLS entrance test (no CLAT back then). My grandfather was a lawyer, but during colonial times. He passed away when I was quite young. My dad used to be in the army and a metallurgist.  He neither inspired me to take up law, nor was he inspired when I did. Very few (except the NLS faculty perhaps) had any inkling of the influence NLS would go on to have on legal education and the preeminent stature of the institution today.

     

    Can you share some memorable experiences from you time at NLSIU?

    Too hard to choose any one. Mr. Soli Sorabjee’s speeches, Chief Justice E. S. Venkataramiah classes (he taught Constitutional Law 1 and 2 immediately after retiring from the Supreme Court), Mr. Ram Jethmalani’s classes (he took a sabbatical to teach us Criminal Law for a month or more), Chief Justice Ahmadi (gave me my degree certificate), stirring speech by APJ Abdul Kalam at that time he was SA to RM. We had no idea we were interacting with the greatest president India would ever have. He signed a photograph for me, squatting on the floor, building a rocket – I keep this really carefully.  We were fortunate to have a lot of greatness rubbing off on us. Many of us were blissfully unaware though.  Sometimes, in hindsight, it was a little surreal too. Dr. Manmohan Singh (Chairman of UGC back then) had come by to inaugurate a hostel block. Two of my best buddies considered it their national duty to entertain him then and there. Of all things, they sang “Comfortably Numb” (quite badly, but it could’ve been the sound system). I can’t say Dr. Singh was comfortable (he clapped feebly), he certainly looked numb. He went on to become Finance Minister next month, the magic of 1991 happened, then prime minister, the rest is again history – you make what you will of that, but if I hope those two rock stars are not reading this!

    Amidst all this, there are those in the faculty who have dedicated more than a quarter century of their most productive years, who are still there now, and who still know each of us by our names and misdeeds. I am still living off that.

     

    Did you pursue activities such as moots, debates and internships in law school?

    The mooting standards were spectacular. Even before the first batch had graduated, NLS teams had already won international competitions. I mooted, but was thoroughly overawed. I focused on paths of lesser resistance, debates, quizzes, and other literary events. By my second year, NLS was dominating the “culfest” scene.  I was born for sports and athletics. M.P. Ganesh, India hockey legend, then director of Sports Authority of India (which is close to NLS campus), gave us full access to world class facilities. That was heaven.

    My internships were in the High Court (Bangalore), chambers of a senior counsel, a PSU bank, an NGO, law firms in Bangalore and Mumbai, and two multinational companies in Chennai and Pondicherry. These internships were invaluable. They gave me a job, and the chance of coping with life experiences (in Mumbai, I would always run out of cash in the very first week, from Pondicherry I could send money home if I wanted, which I didn’t eventually. By the end of the fourth year, I had a career plan (and several Plan Bs). By the end of the fifth year, I had three offers on campus (not without anxious moments). The internships had however already prepped me for whatever was to come.

     

    Would you say law school prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    The programme was superbly designed, even for the most indifferent student. The internship program was only one aspect. Other than the tough curriculum (two tests plus a project and a viva for each of the 60 subjects – none of which you could score below 50), we had a retinue of occasional / vocational teachers from every walk of life, academicians, industry captains, scientists, politicians, ministers, activists, sportsmen even, who taught us a life-lesson or two every now and then. NLS was conceived by brilliant educationalists, it also had the backing of the entire Judiciary, the Bar Council of India, the Karnataka Bar Council, the Bangalore University and the Government of Karnataka. The Chief Justice of India was the Chancellor. The Chairman, BCI, was the Chairman of the GC. I guess the odds were heavily against the “real world” when we stepped out.

     

    What are your areas of interest? How did you discover such fields and cultivate your knowledge of them?

    Intense focus in any one subject I owe to Professor Pillai (he continues to teach at NLS even today). His question papers were legendary. They were excruciating but hugely satisfying (i.e. if you passed) – at least eight to nine pages long and labyrinthine. They were invariably open book (the more you carried in, the worse your chances). He would set information dense scenarios (deviously misleading) which would require extremely quick analyses and a sort of synthetic application of competing principles. It was possible to come to diametrically opposite conclusions and be assured that both solutions were equally right. He provoked thought and demanded only the ability to solve problems – not swotting his notes or reeling off citations. So Corporate Laws and M&A was where it all began for me. I guess Prof. Pillai was really trying to inculcate method and application. He left the “imparting knowledge” part to you. Much later I would tackle a Masters, banking and finance, debt capital markets and restructuring, using only his approach.

     

    As an expert in Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt capital markets, can you tell our readers a little about the subjects and the nature of work they demands?

    Maybe they all require different mind-sets. M&A perhaps requires a certain “structuring” knack based on comfortable ability with the corporate laws, exchange control, tax and some sector specific laws. Banking & Finance, less of “structuring” but far greater technical ability distilled from in-depth knowledge of market practices. Debt Capital Markets (especially the cross-border variety), a deeper regulatory awareness and conversational fluency with international market practices. Perhaps the common thread is really an ability to solve problems rapidly and deal with complexities even faster. Sometimes the spin-offs can be startling. When you are able to use a run-of-the-mill old hat technique in one practice area, add some bells and whistles, and push it out as as a “brilliant innovation” in another. This cross-pollination will make you stand out – you mustn’t give the game away then, pretend it’s an original brainwave, you are naturally quick witted like that, and in an everyday matter of fact way. Accept the applause graciously.

     

    What was your first job out of law school and how did you secure it? 

    ICI India Limited (now Akzo-Nobel).  ICI was looking for an entry level M&A and corporate lawyer. I had gone through two rounds without breaking a sweat (I had just interned with an MNC). My final interview was with my to-be “super-boss”, sharp eyed and intimidating. He immediately picked up on the word “treaties” in an obscure paper I had unfortunately mentioned in my CV – “Economic Analysis of Indian Double Taxation Treaties” (My wife-to-be, NLS senior batch, had made a “serious contribution”. I had speed read the Indo-Mauritian DTA though, some months ago).  He asked me how many “treaties I had to analyse to write this “seminal, heavy duty paper”. I distinctly felt the rug slip. I blurted “all” (mostly by reflex) and looked surprised that he should even ask? That was it. He stopped his interrogation immediately. I saw a paternal smile which clearly said “You are hired!” Much later, I fessed up to him and my boss – I could hear the boss man laugh long and hard.

     

    What was your work profile at ICI Group? 

    ICI had just launched a take-over bid on Asian Paints. This was apparently the first bid under India’s first “takeover code”, freshly minted in 1994. I had two wonderful mentors – two bosses, one in Calcutta the other at Delhi. They gave me a free hand (but would always keep an eye, I didn’t know then). I ended up fronting 3 M&A deals all by myself (or so I thought back then) by my 3rd and 4th year at ICI. I left suddenly, on a whim, to join Trilegal – but ICI immediately followed as a client.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Trilegal?

    The name would come a tad later. The founding partners were actually founders of three firms which they had started-up independently (at around the same time) in different cities. Sridhar and Karan (seniors at NLS) in Mumbai, Akshay and Anand in Delhi, Rahul and Prem (again, seniors at NLS) in Bangalore.  What I remember hazily is sometime in the winter of 2000 these gentlemen were in Delhi (possibly discussing Trilegal?). I was with ICI based at Delhi then and Sridhar caught up and asked if I would join Singh and Gorthi at Mumbai. I immediately did. Trilegal was christened very soon thereafter.

    I was an M&A partner. ICI had followed as a client, for an acquisition from Hindustan Levers (HLL). Then HLL hired us soon after for one other – they were across the table on that first deal. My two mentors at ICI (one of them had already moved on to a famous technology MNC as GC and the other would, a little later, as GC to a bellwether IT giant) stood by and referred a couple of acquisitions. I had not planned on leaving Trilegal. I went to London to complete my masters in Banking & Finance, to come back with perhaps an extra arrow or three in my quiver (or at least that was the plan). The LLM without the work experience would not nearly count as such. So therefore Clifford Chance –that stint continued longer than either I or Trilegal had planned.

     

    What motivated you to finish your masters? 

    This was planned for long time. I planned on doing my masters back in my fifth year. We were allowed a choice of either M&A or Banking & Finance for our 5th year clinicals. You couldn’t choose both for some reason. I, of course, opted for M&A with Prof. Pillai. So Banking & Finance was definitely on the cards for later.  Banking & Finance is also hugely driven by market practice, so this had to be a “practical” and working programme with an assured return on my investment (never bright enough for a scholarship). I picked a very specific programme (designed by Prof. Walker) at Queen Mary, CCLS after many months of painstaking research. As with the programme at NLS, this programme featured several partners from Magic Circle City firms – A&O, Linklaters, Clifford Chance, Freshfields, Chadbourne & Parke – the GC of World Bank and the redoubtable Philip Wood.

    The LLM would give me a new livelihood and a dual qualification in an international market. It is probably not enough to have an objective. You need a strategy (or two or three). Choosing a programme and the timing is part planning part luck. If you are pursuing a career in academics or with multilateral organizations, it is best you plan from your fourth year onwards and finish your masters as quickly as you can (the long slippery slope of an M.Phil / Ph.D lurks ahead, so Godspeed and good luck). Naturally, your choice of subjects will be simple and mostly driven by your forte. If you desire to augment skill sets, you should ideally hold until you have about four to five years of work experience. At this stage, your choice of universities and subjects will become increasingly complex as also your objective. An LLM without work experience is really a sabbatical – which is hardly a bad thing. Go out, enjoy yourself, take a break and come back enlightened to boot. Do it for the pleasure. Do not expect a payback. An LLM combined with work experience is not only force multiplayer, but you could cunningly weave in the “sabbatical” part. I saw a lot of UK and Europe on a shoestring while studying and working in the UK. You do have to fret about the “work experience” bit right up front though.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Clifford Chance?

    I had completed my masters with an emphasis on leveraged finance. This was a high risk strategy given the Indian context – you still cannot structure PE deals in India using leveraged finance structures. Which meant, if I couldn’t secure a position in UK, the LLM would become a sabbatical (default setting – screensaver, I could have lived with it). The acquisition finance market was highly stratified at that time. The magic circle firms did the large (above USD 500m) and the mega deals, and the small and lower mid-market deals were the preserve of the silver circle firms. CC was at the centre of the centre of that universe. I planned my application well in advance, did tons of research, and wheedled several decent references. I did many interviews with other firms for practice. Enrolled with agencies. I keenly followed CC’s India plans on a daily basis. Made friends and tried to influence them –no stone unturned. Even then, when I got the call it seemed like the Lotto Euromillions numbers just tallied (I used to buy those tickets too). I was a senior associate with “50X” – as the CC banking and finance team was known back then. This was probably the best outfit for acquisition finance transactions. I did a lot of heavy lifting on headline grabbing international acquisition finance transactions, besides bilaterals and restructuring (finance). The work culture was truly world class. There were lawyers from all over the world with absolutely stellar partners. It is my second alma mater, a mothership, very close second to NLS.

    In September, 2008, Lehman Brothers collapsed, literally, in front of us. The European headquarters were located at Canary Wharf, very close to CC. I think it was a Monday when I turned up for work. I saw about 2,000 Lehman employees (some good friends too) cramped outside Lehman offices in Jubilee Park. That, for me was a graphic and symbolic snapshot from ground zero of the beginning of the 2008 crisis. Thereafter, the leveraged finance market simply fell off a cliff. Some in 50X shifted to restructuring, others moved on. I did restructuring for about 8-9 months, which was absolutely fascinating (especially whilst working with the Bank of England and Her Majesty’s Treasury) – but this was no longer a sustainable career option. I returned to India to pick up from where I had started, with those extra arrows in my quiver.

     

    How did your appointment as a Partner at Luthra & Luthra happen? 

    In mid-2009, Mohit Saraf was in London. We met over breakfast near Hyde Park. He asked if I would like to join L&L. It took nine months to return to India, but Mohit was more than patient. I joined as an M&A and Banking & Finance Partner at Mumbai.  Later, I would go on to develop the international debt capital market practice piggybacking on L&L’s superb ECM practice.  

    While at CC, I met with Vaishali Sharma, then Partner with AZB Mumbai. CC had tied up with AZB and she was in CC London in an ambassadorial capacity. Vaishali would return to India and later go on to found Agram Legal Consultants as a sole proprietorship in 2014. After nineteen years of doing everything (in-house, private practice, masters, magic circle…), what remained was the entrepreneurial plunge. In May 2015, I joined Agram.

     

    What was your role in founding Agram Legal Consultants? 

    We converted Agram to a partnership. I was now well and truly into the business of law from scratch, even doing IT and server maintenance by myself. Vaishali was already adept with both the practice and business of law and in addition proved to be an excellent administrator, bookkeeper, interior designer, HR and constant gardener.  The hurdles were many, but nothing loyal client following and good old fashioned project management couldn’t take care of.  As with the practice of law, the business of law, too, threw up more than one right answer. We looked at Agram’s growth from two different perspective. Vaishali focussed on the bottom line with quality as the primary driver and I was looking to grow the top line by adding partners and offices. Hindsight would prove us both right, but for that we needed two different platforms.

     

    You are currently a Partner at Samvad Partners? 

    I was looking for a larger platform around mid-2016. On account of a sporting injury I was admitted in Breach Candy. Harish (batch mate at NLS and old friend) and Vineetha (college mate from NLS and old friend), two of the three founding partners of Samvad came by for possibly the weirdest hiring decision Samvad has made to date. I had just undergone surgery, full of some potent IV stuff they were shooting (legally) – so I probably wasn’t too coherent, but over coffee and masala dosa (or idli?), at Breach Candy canteen I may have convinced Harish and Vineetha somehow. For me, the lifelong friends I made at NLS were yet again banding around me and it was an easy and natural choice. The transition was seamless. I continued with the very same M&A and Banking & Finance deals I was working on. Strangely, my clients didn’t seem to miss a beat (or may have pretended they didn’t) – not even when I was in hospital and these were large cross-border deals.  There were many law firms and many group email ids – so Agram servers were still being pinged. In one deal, Vaishali had to actually step in independently – that was hilarious.

     

    What hurdles have you faced in building your career as it stands today?

    Mostly my own pig-headedness and delusions of how clever I am.

     

    How have you overcome them and what lessons have they taught you?

    I have learnt to constantly double guess the calls I make. The lessons are: not to take myself too seriously; to remember that, success and failure are two sides of the same coin; and with luck (lots of) and planning (even more of), you will often win that toss (maybe, can’t really say for sure).

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to succeed in the world of corporate law?

    Do not depend on your knowledge and expertise with law alone. If you cannot understand your client’s business and financial imperatives, you would serve that client really well by not offering your services in the first place. And borrowing from my old mentor- “God resides in the detail”.

     

    What qualities do you look for while recruiting law students or young lawyers? 

    Problem solving. How I wish I had preserved Prof. Pillai’s question papers. CGPA may /may not / sometimes / depending / inter alia get you through, but then again, maybe not; yesno?

     

    How do you maintain a work- life balance?

    I look to squeeze the last drop of fun from out of every waking second, of every of minute of every hour. Rest of the time I sleep as long and as fast as my baby daughter. So far this has worked perfectly. This is more than a good bargain / balance / whatever this “work- life balance” thing be – at my age, I accept this with gratitude.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Experience is a comb nature provides you with once you are bald. I am.

  • Krishnava Dutt, Managing Partner, Argus Partners, on working at ICICI, AMSS, and his experience

    Krishnava Dutt, Managing Partner, Argus Partners, on working at ICICI, AMSS, and his experience

    Krishnava graduated from Symbiosis International University, batch of 1999, with a degree in BSL LLB. Krishnava started his legal career in the Calcutta High Court where he practiced civil law. After a short stint at the High Court, he joined ICICI Bank in Mumbai where he gained several years of experience in handling transactions in the stressed assets space and international banking sector. He joined Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. in 2005 and became the partner in charge of the eastern operations of the firm in the year 2007. He retired from Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. as a partner in June of 2009. Krishnava is currently the Managing Partner of Argus Partners.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Pursuing a BSL LLB degree
    • His experience spanning time in court, the banking sector, and law firms
    • Being Partner

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am very fortunate to be a part of this profession and am extremely passionate about the subject of law. I am grateful for having seniors, peers and juniors from whom I have constantly learnt and continue to learn. I feel blessed because even after almost two decades, I absolutely love what I do.

     

    Do you feel that there is a divide between NLU and Non-NLU students?

    I personally did not find any difference. In my first job at ICICI Limited (as it then was), I had a large number of NLSIU almuni colleagues, some of whom are still my closest friends.

    One’s own career trajectory is based entirely on one’s own capabilities. While law school/college may help you find initial space in the ecosystem, the future and destiny of your career lies entirely in your own hands.

     

    What is unique about the B.S.L. course that you undertook and how did it contribute to your career in law?

    Law and society are really two sides of the same coin, intertwined and interdependent. One of the subjects I remember fondly is legal history and evolution of law against the backdrop of a dynamic society.

     

    What, in your opinion, is the level of importance that needs to be attached by a student to GPA? 

    Law school scores are the only objective criterion in a CV. Although a higher CGPA is definitely a significant indicator, co-curricular (publications and articles) or extra-curricular activities also play a significant part in shortlisting candidates.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    In all my years through college, I only interned at a counsel’s chamber – Mr. Abhrajit Mitra in Kolkata. Without a doubt, my learning there has been invaluable, and still holds me in good stead.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields?

    I straddle largely two practice areas i.e. General Corprate/M&A, as well and Banking & Finance. Having said that, I am also involved with quite a few commercial disputes.

     

    At what stage in one’s law school life must one pick a specialisation? 

    In law school, one’s career is at a nascent stage. Specialisation at that level is something I don’t really encourage. It’s very important for one to go out and learn and then decide their forte. We must be grateful that our profession offers us a boundless universe of knowledge. The initial years must be spent exploring that universe. Unless one has a very strong reason to choose a specialized area of law, one must navigate this labyrinthine world of law to really and truly appreciate any specialisation.

     

    What must the CV of one who is aspiring to land an internship/placement with a top notch corporate firm look like?

    Apart from the CGPA, co-curricular engagements such as articles and publications play a vital role while screening the CVs. Another area which is considered, is the extracurricular activities that one is engaged in, to ascertain a well- rounded development.

     

    Having started off at ICICI Bank, why did you choose to make the transition to a law firm?

    I must mention that the learning I received in ICICI was absolutely unparalleled. However, my transition was purely a personal choice. I wanted to explore areas beyond banking and finance.  Having said that, today, I see extremely bright minds in in-house roles. The last few decades, of course, driven by market dynamics, have created challenging opportunities in the in-house space with an identified trajectory which makes it an attractive career choice.

     

    Give us some insights on the qualities that Tier-I firms look for in prospective candidates.

    (Krishnava has previously worked at Amarchand & Mangaldas, one of the most sought after firms by law students, as Partner.)

    Broadly, the qualities one should demonstrate in an interview are:

    (a) good technical skills. Remember, it is a technical job which you are applying for after finishing five years of gaining technical knowledge. It takes just a few minutes for the interviewer to assess whether you are speaking from knowledge, or you are merely trying to second guess based on logic;

    (b) an analytical mind with a high level of curiosity on the subject. If you are discussing a paper you have written (or a moot or an internship note you have worked on, do demonstrate the breadth and depth of the research that you have undertaken to write/work on the paper/moot/note.

    (c) an ambitious and confident attitude with  a sense of purpose and meaning in what you want to achieve (while demonstrating this quality one must be careful not to be seen as over confident, brash or disrespectful). A word of caution, while a friendly disposition is always welcome, being overfriendly or casual during the interview may be counterproductive.

     

    Tell us about your current association with Argus Partners as a Managing Partner. 

    After resigning from Amarchand Mangaldas, I founded Argus Partners in 2009. In the year 2012 we merged with the firm Udwadia & Udeshi, which upon the merger, changed the name to Udwadia Udeshi & Argus Partners. In 2015, the firm Udwadia Udeshi & Argus partners changed its name to Argus Partners.

     

    Give us a brief capsule of the life of a partner and your average working day experience.

    Because of the young demographic matrix of our country, a partner of a law firm in India also goes through various stages. At a junior partner level, she is the main execution person leading the team and the transaction/matter. The responsibility is not only to the transaction/mater at hand but to also to strengthen the Firm’s relationship with the client. At a senior level the responsibility lies in expansion of the firm’s practice in all areas. This apart, various administrative functions of the firm are also supervised by some partners. At all levels, a partner must be a thought leader with the ability to inspire the next generation. Personally, as a Managing Partner of the firm, my time is divided between client work and various adminstrative matters.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    In the age of social media where success and happiness of friends and colleagues are proudly displayed on their respective walls and continuously so, I am reminded of an old Chinese proverb which says, “the biggest source of unhappiness is over estimating the happiness of others”.  The future which will befriend artificial intelligence will also pay a hefty premium for cerebral input, for truly an intelligent mind. And the intelligent mind is the one who picks the nuances and expresses her mind from the depths of knowledge. There is no alternative to knowledge.

    Remember, you are the future and nothing can be more powerful than that. Believe in chasing dreams. Remember, winners are not made overnight, and also remember that success is not a destination but the journey, and a beautiful one at that!

     

  • Karthik Somasundram, Partner, KLaw, on his time at NALSAR, and his diverse experience

    Karthik Somasundram, Partner, KLaw, on his time at NALSAR, and his diverse experience

    Karthik Somasundram graduated in law from NALSAR, Hyderabad, batch of 2004. He currently heads Disputes practice at KLaw’s Mumbai office. Prior to joining K Law, Karthik was a Senior Associate with DSK Legal and prior to that with Paras Kuhad & Associates. Karthik specialises in dispute resolution in corporate, commercial, securities and investment matters.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NALSAR
    • His internship experience
    • His role as Partner at KLaw

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am litigator by choice. However, I am trained as a disputes and a transactions lawyer. I am a wildlife and photography enthusiast and recently qualified as a deep sea diver. Presently, I head the disputes practice at KLaw’s Mumbai office.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I am a first generation lawyer. I did not aspire to be a lawyer. I wanted to join the Air Force but I didn’t get around to that. We were in Bangalore when NLSIU was founded. Since then it was my Dad’s desire that my sister and I become lawyers. After my 12th grade I chanced upon a few application forms and a few entrance tests later, it started.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your NALSAR experience for our readers. What is it about NLUs that makes them stand out, as compared to non-NLUs?

    We were the second batch of NALSAR and I only have fantastic memories from our time there. Three of my closest friends are from my time at NALSAR and I have known them for over seventeen years now! Our time at NALSAR was not what it must be like today, I imagine. We stayed in make shift hostels for a year before we moved to the beautiful campus that you can visit today. From the second year we lived on the present campus and for about two to three years there was construction activity all around us. Few of the structures today were not there even when we graduated. However, the best that NALSAR offered was in the form of few of the professors! I think we studied Constitution and Administrative Law from the finest professors at the time. We also interacted with the sitting Judges of the Supreme Court and the Andhra Pradesh High Court at that time. NALSAR opened doors and gave us experiences that (probably) only NLSIU was giving its students, back then. We had access to libraries and resources that few practising lawyers had at that time. Today, everyone has access to these resources and the internet has made everything accessible. When we started, the full potential of the internet was not known, let alone the ability to exploit it. NALSAR gave us an understanding of that potential early on. We participated in international and national moots and the university had the resources to support the students in those endeavours. I think we were the first amongst the law schools to organise a fest (‘Summons’) and students from most of the law universities and colleges participated. It was lot of fun. Lot of impromptu discussions and arguments on different aspects in classrooms— as also during power outages in the evenings during the monsoons. A discussion that has stayed with me was when a junior (practising in the UK now) wondered if he could be ‘stateless by choice’! The world had started to change by 9/11 and we lived the exiting times.

    There are only two things that make the NLUs stand apart from other institutions. The first is the resources to provide opportunities to students and the other is infrastructure. NLUs also benefit largely on account of the human element – professors and lecturers. That is not to suggest that there are no good professors and lecturers in the non-NLUs. A no-brainer analysis will show that most commentaries and authorities are by non-NLU professors and most of the professors and lecturers from the NLUs are students of non-NLU professors. I still remember the week that Late Professor Sathe spent at NALSAR about ten or twelve years ago. I can’t recollect the lectures from back then, but the faculty at NALSAR hung by every word he said and they followed him around everywhere. However, if the non-NLU professors and lecturers are not compensated at industry standards, this too will become another differentiating factor.

     

    What kind of internships did you undertake during your student years? Any memorable ones?

    In my zeal to figure my area of interest, my internships targeted most areas of practise. I have interned with firms and lawyers on the transaction side, litigation, intellectual property and even maritime practice. The time when I interned in the chambers of the then Solicitor General in the Supreme Court, Late Mr. Kirit Raval, is the most memorable one. I was wide-eyed during my entire stint there and therefore contributed little or nothing, I am sure. I was heading into the fifth year I think and I had not yet made up my mind and I remember sitting through all his briefings/conferences in his office in the Supreme Court and I followed him and his chamber juniors everywhere!

     

    In your opinion, what are the law school centric activities that you would recommend as necessary experiences for every law student? 

    From a résumé perspective, I think one needs to experience all the activities on offer to gain experience(s) first hand. Also, if you do not try all the activities or even a few of them, how will you know what interests you? College activities can also help open up many avenues and therefore determining interests, I think, should be the endeavour.

    Having said that, since the entirety of our professional life is spent ‘communicating to convince’ – a client, counter contracting party and their attorneys, judges or even a point of view, I suppose activities that help in enhancing communication skills should be explored. It can be in the form of debates, moot courts, publishing, undertaking field work and research, etc. I started mooting in my third year at NALSAR. It was quite late to start but we did fairly well, I think. It was fun. We won a few and lost many more! Looking back now, those experiences feel like the trailer to the movie that we are experiencing now!

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these field?

    I am a disputes lawyer on the corporate-commercial side. I advise and represent on disputes arising from contractual arrangements, equity investments, lending and borrowing arrangements and securities transactions. I did not plan for this area of practice. I experienced this kind of work along with transactions work and other kinds of litigations and I enjoy this kind of work the most. Hence.

     

    What are the challenges that one needs to prepare himself/herself for when they step out of the comfort of a law school and into the real working world?

    Be prepared to work hard. There is really no shortcut there and no magic potion to make it work otherwise. Experience is the only teacher. Nothing in law school will prepare you for when you become a service provider. So it is only when you start working that you start learning bits that actually matter. Don’t stop because of setbacks and tough bosses. ‘Mistakes’ and ‘learning’ run parallel. If you don’t work, you won’t make mistakes and if you don’t make mistakes, you won’t learn. So don’t stop working or trying because of a mistake or because you are afraid of making other mistakes.  

     

    Give us a brief capsule of the life of a partner and your average working day experience.

    A day usually starts and ends in a similar fashion—planning. The hours in between are when we execute the work/ assignment. As for the ‘brief capsule of the life of a partner’, it is similar to managers in other professions. It involves identifying and meeting client expectation and requirements, identifying the quickest and surest way of achieving it by deploying the right Associate/Senior Associate, etc., taking stock of progress and ensuring delivery. Therefore, it’s a result oriented approach that constantly needs fine-tuning or modification. To stay competitive, enhancement of knowledge is imperative and that is the other area that takes up significant portion of a week, even if not every day.

     

    How are the young partners today different from the ones before them?

    Each year there are thousands of young lawyers entering the profession and that directly results in increase in competition. There are hordes of lawyers catering to different segments and that constitutes the relevant client base. So apart from executing work, we are constantly trying to innovate and develop an edge over the others. The young partners of today specialise in their chosen area of practice and are not multi-disciplinarians like the stalwarts before them. Anand Desai of DSK Legal, Zia of AZB, Berjis Desai of JSA, M. L. Bhakta of Kanga & Co., and M P Barucha of Barucha & Partners, to name a few, are the last of the multi-disciplinarian practitioners. On account of the competition and shorter turnaround timelines, the partners of today are focused on excelling in their chosen area of practice and therefore there is a lot of specialisation.

    Partners today also have ‘financial’ and ‘client acquisition’ targets that they need to meet in addition to servicing the client in the best possible manner. So the young Partners of today are facing more challenges than the ones before them and one needs to be prepared for that. A lot of movement in the legal market at the partner level is on account of these targets and these parameters are here to stay. So it is no longer adequate to be a good lawyer, one also needs to understand the business of operating a law firm as well.

    Karthik with best friends from NALSAR days, Vishnu Dutt, Partner – Bharucha & Partners, Veena Shivaramakrishnan, Partner – Juris Corp, Priyanka Jain Atal, Senior Manager – Firstsource Solutions Limited.


    How important are grades, in your opinion? 

    Grades are important. However, not in the manner of predicting if one is an exceptional lawyer. One may be fantastic in academics but may not be able to master the practical aspect of it and the other way around as well. However, grades are important in the sense of inculcating work ethics and valuing hard work which really is the only way up from being an Associate to a Senior Associate and further up.

    I am not an expert and neither have I studied the workings of the Indian legal education system and therefore, not qualified to comment on it. However, as with any stream of study, an emphasis on understanding and analysis of the subject matter as opposed to knowing it verbatim, can only be positive.  

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    If someone tells you that money is not important, please run very far away from that person. However, if you had to pick between money and experience, pick the latter always.

  • Ashish Chandra, Former Group General Counsel and Head of Tax, Snapdeal, on being a Company Secretary, and Corporate Lawyer

    Ashish Chandra, Former Group General Counsel and Head of Tax, Snapdeal, on being a Company Secretary, and Corporate Lawyer

    Ashish Chandra graduated in law from Delhi University, batch of 2001. His area of expertise includes eCommerce, mobile payment, telecom, media and technology. Ashish is a qualified Company Secretary and a law graduate from Delhi University. Ashish holds specialized diploma in Cyber (Information Technology) Laws from Indian Law Institute, Delhi and a diploma in Intellectual Property Laws from National Law School, Bangalore.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being a Company Secretary
    • His experience in the E-commerce sector
    • His role at Snapdeal

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Legal buddy for millennials and a perpetual student of law.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    Becoming a lawyer was not my career goal during high school. Most of my family members are from medical or engineering backgrounds. Being average in science, I decided to pursue commerce. I started my professional education through the Company Secretary course and thereafter law was the obvious choice. While I was graduating as lawyer in 2000, I saw a huge opportunity in technology and internet related laws and I complemented my basic law education with further specialization in technology, internet and IP laws.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    I graduated from Law Centre II at Delhi University’s South Campus while undergoing my CS internship and thereafter, a day job. For me, studying law was more practical than academic as I was working in a corporate, so I could clearly relate legal principles into real corporate and personal life. Through this I developed a skill which I term it as LAWBI i.e. Legal Acumen With Business Intelligence. Studying law was also detoxing after a day long hard work.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation, and when/how did you go about choosing these?

    I was graduating as a lawyer and a company secretary in 2000 and took the decision to build my career in corporate, technology, internet and IP laws. The professional journey thereafter has been satisfying. The choice you make should provide a combination of both professional and financial satisfaction. The other important aspect is to have an open mind and ability to change choices depending upon the business and personal circumstances.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation?

    I have always been an in-house counsel. I saw implementation of law in business and commerce during my law school days. Law school did strengthen my academic roots, but it’s the day-to-day grind and time-to-time taking of risk that provided me the ability to practise law more effectively and meaningfully. This also prepared me to take up critical business roles in my most recent stint.

     

    What kind of internships did you undertake during your student years?

    I was interning in my company secretary course during my law school days. I would advise students and freshers to choose a place that provides ability to put law into real-life practice, and gives you opportunity to dirty your hands. Internship is the best period to learn the basics of working smart.

     

    When did you decide to complete the Company Secretary course and when did you clear the qualification examinations?

    I started my company secretary course right after my commerce graduation at Delhi University. I cleared all my CS examination within two years after my commerce graduation. I started my law graduation after completion of CS exams. I did not want to sail in two boats and wanted to focus on one thing at a time, and also enjoy the life.

     

    What are the benefits that come with combining a CS qualification with an LL.B?

    A combination of CS and LL.B. gives you better understanding and appreciation of corporate and commercial laws. It benefits in all aspects of profession for eg: as an in-house counsel, working for a corporate law firm, or corporate litigation and white collar crime law.

     

    Is it cumbersome to complete both side by side?

    I don’t think so as both complement each other.

     

    From your vast experience in the corporate sector, would you recommend this environment for fresh graduates?

    (Ashish has worked with several corporate giants such as eBay India and Reliance Industries Ltd. in the past, before joining Snapdeal.)

    Well, it’s not whether you start your career in a corporate or you start your career in a law firm or under an independent lawyer. The most important part is what work you do and with whom during the initial part of your career. You need to work at a place which is growing very fast, and where there are more things to do than there are people to do them. During the initial years, you should in-fact do some part of paralegal work including learn the art of properly stapling the papers, quickly taking photo-copies, learning fast typing and taking quick notes.

     

    What does a regular working day look like for you, as Group General Counsel & Head of Taxation of Snapdeal.com?

    When I was the Group GC and Head of Tax, most part of my day used to go in managing my team (internal and external counsels), my peers and my CXOs. Managing people and getting everyone aligned for a common goal in a reasonably safe and stable legal and regulatory environment is the key aspect of any GC. As a GC, you need to evangelize your company’s business, its opportunities and challenges to the external world including industry bodies, government organizations and law enforcement.

     

    If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point?

    I regret not working under a good litigator during the early stage of my career. As a rounded lawyer (even in-house), your job is not completed unless you know court processes and how your contracts and advises be argued before a judge or decided by a judge. Never stop updating yourself in your subject matter, always take a global perspective in your legal research, be a patient listener (adopt 80:20 rule i.e. 80% time in listening and 20% time in relevant speaking), and a great orator with good voice modulation and body gestures.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    There cannot be a better time to be a lawyer. Analyse your areas of interests and strength, and give your 100%. Lastly, give back to society in whatever form whether time, knowledge, wisdom o wealth. Most importantly, laugh out loud on lawyers’ jokes!

  • Savitha Jagadeesan, Partner, Kochhar & Co., on Intellectual Property Law, and being a Corporate Lawyer

    Savitha Jagadeesan, Partner, Kochhar & Co., on Intellectual Property Law, and being a Corporate Lawyer

    Savitha Jagadeesan graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 1997. Previously she’s held position of Partner at K. R. Chawla & Co., and Khaitan & Partners. She is currently Partner-Intellectual Property Chair at Kochhar & Co. Her expertise includes Transaction and Negotiation, Corporate advisory services. She is passionate about cyber crime and security issues. Further areas of expertise are in corporate law, commercial law, India Investment Strategies, which include providing legal advice on investments abroad by Indian companies, and companies seeking to invest in India, cyber laws and intellectual property law.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at NLSIU
    • Her internship experience
    • Her role at Kochhar & Co.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    The legal profession is a particularly demanding profession on the time front as well as work front. This was fine for me as long as I was single. However, post marriage and especially after having my boys, I have tried to work as well as do justice on the personal front, something a lot of us grapple with, especially women. I like to look back and reflect that am glad I took on a full family life, yet refused to give up my profession and have been successful in both. I would encourage young lawyers, especially women, that despite the demands of our profession, there are choices we can make that enable us to have a full career as well as family.

     

    What are your areas of specialization?

    I am a general corporate lawyer and have worked on diverse matters, from labour law to infrastructure matters. However, Intellectual Property law and cyber laws are my specialised areas.

     

    How would you describe your time as an undergraduate at NLSIU,Bangalore?

    The five years at NLSIU were personally very enriching. Coming from a conservative background, the diversity on the NLSIU campus truly exposed me to an experience that enabled me to interact with people across the board. Another very crucial experience one gets at NLSIU is the immense confidence you derive through the years, that holds you in good stead across the board. The NLS experience enables you to study various streams of law, exposes you to legal studies, that I feel might not be possible in a routine college. Moreover, the curriculum as well as co-curricular activities create greater avenues for us to explore.

     

    Did you participate in co-curricular activities?

    Yes, I did. Cultural activities and the inter college fests were definitely fun times, especially the NLS had a cultural week which also was great fun and a wonderful experience. I would encourage all to step up and be part of these activities as much as the moot court experience.

     

    How did you select the internships you got yourself engaged with in your student years?

    One of the foremost thoughts I had in mind  was that I wanted a well rounded experience to decide which path I would take upon graduation. Therefore, I chose litigation firms, corporate houses, independent counsel and corporate firms as my learning ladder. I picked big firms and companies as well as small lawyers. The former enabled me to see how the big firm/big company culture worked, and the latter meant I had direct experience on the work I would be required to handle. I would encourage young lawyers to give some thought to  their internships. Especially because they have a lot more opportunities we did.

     

    Could you please give our readers some advice regarding internships?

    I think it’s important to choose diverse paths to understand what we would like to do; the same is in case of internships. I do recommend varied internships for those who are confused. However, if you have decided the city you want to work with and it is a firm/corporate house/NGO, choose those only throughout the years of internship. However I would encourage many to definitely do internships with lawyers and litigation firms, because one of the cornerstones of being a good lawyer is that you should know the procedural aspects of law. In fact, I feel that lawyers should get some litigation experience in their career as it’s a lot easier to identify issues with their corporate work before hand. Now many firms have internships programs, therefore apply early. Choose firms, according to your growth trajectory, speak to your peers, do research on the firms that do provide good, well rounded internships, and of course, as already said, apply early.

     

    What would you like to say about the initial years as a corporate lawyer?

    Loved it. My first experience was with Mulla and Mulla, Craigie Blunt and Caroe and we had to do both litigation and corporate. It was not some air conditioned office, but we all sat in a room, but we had plenty of work, so plenty to do. It was intense, and there was no excuse of how many hours were spent in court, we still had to complete our corporate work and send out reporting letters the same day of the matter.

     

    Would you please enlighten the readers about how you came to choose your fields of specialization and suggest them the proper time to do so?

    This is an era of specialisation and is crucial to one’s growth path. I think it is imperative that through the years as you are dabbling in varied aspects of law, you also look into reading into various specialisations. Depending upon the curriculum if you are exposed to specialisation in courses in the fourth and fifth year, you choose the electives not purely based on interest, but its applicability in the outside world. I would also recommend choosing specialised firms, if you are looking at being specialised. Even though many of us might know what we want, I would recommend experimenting with these courses before you earmark a singular one, so  you do not regret the decisions later on. I would also speak to specialised lawyers to get an insight into the area, choose internships and write articles, this enables and exposes us to the idea, if our interest in these specialised areas is retained. For those unsure, read, research, speak to others. This will enable to get the dialogue going with us on what we would like to do.

     

    Did you have any mentor or inspirational figures along your eventful journey?

    Not really, although, I had excellent bosses who have played crucial roles in moulding me as a lawyer. From my first boss I learnt meticulousness and listening to detail. From my second boss I learnt the importance of working hard and reaching deadlines at all cost and identifying what sets you apart from others. My present stint brought out the business person in me and I realised presentation and branding is equally important, and most importantly your clientele is worked on your work skills and people skills.

     

    When was the time you decided to pursue an LLM?

    This was many years into my profession and the need to pursue the LLM was mainly because I wanted to pursue my Ph.d in India, where the LLM is a  requirement. However, I think there are two crucial junctures you can pursue your LLM; straight from law school (I would recommend doing it in UK and USA) or few years down the line, but only if it adds value to your specialisation.

     

    How would you describe your experience as a partner in a Tier-I company like K.R. Chawla and Co.?

    It was truly a learning experience for me. I was exposed to varied matters especially regulatory matters. Mr. Harvansh Chawla was a wonderful person to work for, as he exposed me to all kinds of work, gave me a free hand on how I executed the work and also encouraged me from all fronts. I think the work that I did here was some of the best in my career and it was here that I also learnt to interact with clients first hand. It was also this experience that enabled me to be an open colleague. By that I mean, for all my colleagues I work with, I give them a free hand on how they want to execute the work, including client interactions. I am but a stickler for timelines and feel that all work should be turned around fast irrespective of client deadlines.

     

    What is your advice to young aspiring interns about the Tier-1 firms?

    Learn, learn, learn. Some internships might be boring. However, if you take an initiative, you will find that many a firm will be willing to be expose you to their daily work and will use you. Don’t take your internships for granted. Work hard at the work you are given, even if research, because there is a chance you will be offered a position there and you might get noticed. Being a lawyer is not just about knowing the law, but also bringing out the confidence in your client. Never fib, if you do not know something check it up and then advice. Research is an imperative part of your learning curve. Write articles and be exposed to changes in the areas of law. And last but not the least, it is imperative that through the years you study the trends in the profession, and your choices are marked by this as your future will be shaped out to be due to these choices.

     

    Did you ever imagine that you would become Partner some day?

    Yes, I knew from the very beginning that I would be part of the law firm culture and I had already envisaged that being a partner was definitely going to be on my bucket list. I think its an aspiration we should all keep, to reach the top, that keeps the adrenaline rushing, and we do not get bored of our profession. Pick challenges in whatever you do, and do not rest with one.

     

    Could you tell us what a typical work day entails for you?

    Well, I do a lot of my business meetings in the first half of the day. We have administrative decisions to be taken which we do through the day.  Most of my day goes in conference calls, meetings and tackling work. My time is divided between intellectual property and corporate queries. I also do a fair bit of business development for the firm and hence, meeting and sitting on committees also takes some time.

     

    How do you stay updated on the latest legal developments?

    I read a lot of judgments and articles. Reading legal books are more when doing opinions. However, I do make it a policy to subscribe to various legal updates that come to me. Recently, with technology, legal Whatsapp groups are in, and this exposes are fairly quickly to the latest law developments.

     

    Lastly, what would be your tips to aspiring lawyers?

    1. Work hard.
    2. Take initiative.
    3. Do court work, you will see a definite difference in your attitude as a lawyer.
    4. Read.
    5. Never say no to any kind of work, more the experience the better the lawyer you will be.
    6. Never say no to a client, even if it is a small matter, take it up and execute it with equal gusto as a big matter, you are in the business of building relationships so every bit counts.
    7. If you are thinking of a company job/NGOs your organisation comes first, never substitute the hard work for the company for anything else. Integrity will always see you a long way.