Super Lawyer

Category: Higher Studies

  • Amrapali Satpathy on studying LL.M from Cornell University, being a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance and experience in litigation

    Amrapali Satpathy on studying LL.M from Cornell University, being a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance and experience in litigation

    Amrapali Satpathy graduated from Delhi University with an LL.B degree before practising at the Supreme Court. She was awarded with the “Scroll of Honour” for “Promising New Advocate of the Year” by the Hon’ble President of India at the International Conference of Jurists. She then worked at United Lex, Gurgaon, followed by the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus, Los Angeles and Clifford Chance LLP, New York. She is currently studying for her LL.M from Cornell University.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying law at Delhi University.
    • Being a Senior Associate at CPA Global.
    • LL.M from Cornell University.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background.

    I am a simple girl who believes in traditional values while possessing a modern outlook. I am from Cuttack, Odisha. As a child I travelled quite a bit, and got to visit a lot of countries since my father is a Merchant Navy Captain. Travelling all over the world from such an early age helped me to develop a very wide and tolerant perspective about life and people in general.

    During the course of such travels I also made many friends globally and understood different cultures and way of life. At the same time my values as imparted by my parents, helped me to be very grounded and from a very early age I learnt to take deep pride in the diversity and magnitude of our Indian culture and traditions while respecting every other culture in the world. Part of my primary schooling was in Singapore from the Siglap Education Centre. When I was seven, we shifted back to Bhubaneswar, Odisha where I completed my higher secondary studies and was the state topper.

    Later my family shifted to Delhi. My inherent love for English made me complete my higher studies in English Literature with Honors and distinction and my childhood desire to be a lawyer made me study LL.B, which I passed with good grades and high merit. Currently I am completing my Masters in Laws (LL.M) from Cornell University in New York, USA.

     

    How did your interest gravitate towards law?

    My family has always encouraged me to be a lawyer. Two of my uncles are lawyers, and so was my grandfather. Books have always been my greatest influence after my parents. The subject of law and imparting justice has always fascinated me through my readings of various books on the subject. As a child I was absolutely caught up with Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, and Perry Mason while as a teenager I enjoyed reading Catherine Barnard’s ‘What About Law’ and Amartya Sen’s ‘The Idea of Justice’. Back then I perceived the law as an indestructible, infallible weapon which had the power of liberating the society from all kinds of misdeeds. Although as a teenager I did get a little cynical about the judicial system, nevertheless I always had this belief, which was strengthened as an adult, that no matter what, the law when used by the right people in the right manner has tremendous potential to bring forth the right result and guide society in the right direction. I could join my father’s business, I could be an astronaut, an actress, a model, an engineer etc. In short I could do anything and be anybody. But if there was any profession which allowed me to be in control of my life and at the same time possess the power to help people and society, it was the legal profession. As a lawyer I could have the freedom of interpreting the law in the manner I wanted and then implement it for the betterment of society. And that’s the very reason why I chose this profession.

     

    You have completed your law graduation from Delhi University. Tell us about your law school experience and the co-curricular activities you took part in?

    Studying law at Delhi University was one of the best and most memorable experiences of my life. More than anything else, it brought me in contact with people from extremely diverse ages, economic backgrounds and social beliefs. One of my classmates at the Faculty of Law was a 69 year old gentleman who was a doctor by profession, but wanted to study and understand the Indian law since he was going through some property dispute with his brothers. Then there was this lady who was a teacher at a primary school but wanted to study law so as to get a better paying job as a lawyer in order to support her family, who were entirely dependent on her. My educational experience at Delhi University was truly an eye opener for me, in the sense that I got to see and understand different people, all belonging to the Indian society yet each was so different from the other.  Their differences added colour and variety to the atmosphere at Delhi University, which I don’t think can be found at any other educational campus. I was the convenor for the legal aid society and also headed the dramatic club. Both these roles were extremely enriching. As the convenor of the legal aid society I arranged legal aid camps for the slum dwellers at Yamuna Pushta and as the head of the dramatic society I arranged street plays addressing sensitive, yet less talked about issues in our society like female infanticide, domestic violence and incest. I love debating and was in charge of the debating society for some time where I participated in and arranged college and inter-college debate competitions.

     

    What skills did you get to hone as the Secretary of the Student’s Debating Association and Dramatic Society and also as a   Convener of the Legal Aid Society?

    More than anything else my involvement in these societies made me a people’s person and a team player. Today these are the two skills which have helped me forge lasting friendships and be a good listener while being able to work effectively as a lawyer amongst different kinds of people.

     

    After your graduation, you worked in the Supreme Court. What has been your perspective of litigation in India? Have you found in overrated in any way?

    Sadly the field of litigation in India is quite gender biased and dynasty based. Gender biased in the sense that even today while the courts give judgments for empowering women, yet the very same lawyers at these courts look down on practising female advocates and belittle their talent and knowledge. Unless you are a woman belonging to a very reputed legal based family, it is almost extremely difficult to make a decent entry into the field of litigation. Which reminds me of the admiration, adulation and work opportunities which are bestowed on some freshers, only because of their connection to such reputed legal families, while there are lawyers who slog away their entire life finding clients willing to pay them a decent amount in exchange for their services. Still, I don’t think litigation is an overrated career option. There are always exceptions to the rule and I also firmly believe in hard work paying off sooner or later. Like I said earlier that no matter what, the law when used by the right people in the right manner has the tremendous potential to bring forth the right result and guide society in the right direction. What matters is that the right people should not give up.

     

    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first few sessions in court. Has it become more difficult for a fresher to achieve success?

    There is an immense sense of responsibility, pride and self satisfaction when you are standing in front of a judge to a packed courtroom and fighting for your client’s rights. In the current scenario, yes it is definitely becoming more and more difficult for freshers to achieve immediate success in this field, unless you are extremely well connected. However, hard work, patience and perseverance coupled with ambition always bears fruition in the long run, if not immediately.

     

    What was the role of a mentor in your case? How important do you think a mentor is in the field of litigation?

    Frankly, I had no mentor, except my parents who have always been my greatest source of motivation and support. Since I had no mentor, I personally cannot speak about it, since I personally don’t know about it. But yes, speaking pragmatically, a good word of recommendation always helps in advancing your career in any field and the field of litigation is no exception to this rule. But then again, if you are talented, ambitious and hard working you can still make a mark without any mentor.

     

    What motivated you to leave your litigation practice and join United Lex an LPO?

    Although my family is extremely well connected both politically and many of my family members hold reputed positions in the legal field, yet my parents were absolutely clear from the day I joined the legal profession, that no matter what, they would never ask any of their connections for any professional assistance for my career. I agreed with my parents and respected them for this decision. At the same time it was extremely difficult for me to get interesting cases in order to further my career, because without having anybody to vouch for my credentials it was extremely difficult to get important cases. Also, truthfully speaking I was getting bored with the simple quality of the cases I was asked to deal with, while my seniors took charge of the more challenging ones. It was at this point that I got an offer from United Lex asking me to join their corporate department and provide legal services to their overseas client British Telecom. Apart from being extremely interesting, the job profile was something which I had not done before. Hence I took the bait and joined United Lex as Associate for Contract Management.

     

    You have worked for one year at United Lex. What had contributed towards this appointment? Tell us about your work profile at United Lex.

    LPOs have a very tight budget which depends entirely on their international/national clients. Depending on this budget LPOs determine the salaries of their employees. That’s one of the reasons why LPOs rank number one in hiring freshers because then they do not have to pay these freshers higher salaries. Since I was in the litigation field and had no corporate experience, I was treated as a fresher by United Lex and my remuneration was paid according to the industry standards of a fresher. At the same time I had the knowledge and confidence required for this role and that contributed towards my appointment.

    Working at United Lex was a very good experience. As an Associate of Contract Management, my responsibilities encompassed handling the entire contract lifecycle management process which included reviewing of complex agreements, and drafting and negotiating a wide variety of agreements ranging from NDAs, MSAs, Procurement Agreements, Framework Agreements, Software License Agreements, etc. each of which were unique in their structure and level of complexity. The work experience at United Lex was very dynamic and interesting.

     

    After United Lex, you went on to the University of California, Los Angeles (Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.)  as a  Visiting Scholar. How did you get appointed at University of California as a visiting scholar? What was your role and what are the responsibilities you were entrusted as a visiting scholar?

    As a legal counsel for my father’s business venture, I had to travel a lot to Los Angeles where one of our clients had their offices. While there, one of my relatives told me about UCLA’s course for visiting scholars. Since I had to be there for many months at a time, I decided to look this up online and later visited the campus. The course was fast paced and quite interesting. It would add value to my Resume apart from increasing my knowledge. There were no formal certifications as such, except a transcript of all the subjects which I studied there. Since I was not getting any formal certification, yet I was taking classes with the LL.M and JD students and I was also giving the exams, my designation was that of a Visiting Scholar. UCLA comes up with these exchange programmes and summer courses which are really good because you get to learn about international law without getting hassled about degrees and certificates. Since I was in Los Angeles primarily as legal counsel for my father’s organization, I really didn’t have too much time to take on added responsibilities at UCLA. It was mostly work, study and seeing the lovely places in Los Angeles. It was a cool experience and Los Angeles was a beautiful place.

     

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    You have also worked at the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus (Los Angeles, USA) as a paralegal for four months. How did you apply? What did your work profile consist of?

    While at Los Angeles, I thought it would be a good idea to work for an international law firm and get an idea how the legal process works in the US. I looked up for any vacancies at law firms in Los Angeles through online U.S. employment portals and came across this opportunity at the Law Offices of Ireneo A Reus. I applied online and was selected after being interviewed. My work profile involved mostly researching on core  legal issues and assisting the senior attorneys with drafting and vetting of complex legal contracts, conducting comparison, risk analysis, and due diligence of complex contracts.

     

    What does being a Paralegal mean? How different is it from being an Associate at a law firm?

    Paralegals are not allowed to offer legal services directly to the public on their own and must perform their legal work under the supervision of a senior associate. Usually lawyers who work in a foreign country are initially hired as paralegals because they do not have the requisite knowledge and understanding of that country’s law and legal process. Hence they are not permitted to give legal counselling or take up cases in courts for the clients. Where an associate is expected to deal with the entire legal process at an organization, from counselling clients, to going to courts and drafting contracts and negotiating, a paralegal’s work is only limited to giving assistance to the associates on various legal issues.

     

    Thereafter, you have also worked as a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance LLP (New York, USA). What does Summer Associate mean? How is this position valuable to a law student?

    A summer associate is just another synonym for an intern in the US. As a designation, a summer associate of course sounds cooler than an intern. Summer associates are current law students who are interning at a law firm or organization for the summer. Summer associates have not passed the bar exam and are not lawyers. This position holds the same value as that of an intern. It’s not a job guarantee but if you are interning at a reputed law firm or organization, the brand name looks great on the Resume and can attract prospective employers into calling you for an interview. Also if you have worked really diligently you can even get hired by the same firm for which you interned, provided of course there is a current vacancy, which is usually rare because the attrition rate at such reputed firms is very low.

     

    Also, please brief us about your work profile as a Summer Associate at Clifford Chance LLP.

    My job profile as a Summer Associate with Clifford Chance LLP involved assisting the senior attorneys on structured debt including CLOs, securitization, small balance commercial mortgages, RMBS and covered bonds.

     

    Meanwhile, you were also associated with Amrapali Exports Pvt. Ltd. [your father’s startup venture], as a Legal Counsel. What does Amrapali Exports do? Tell us about the nature of work you were entrusted with therein.

    Amrapali Exports provides legal solutions to a Singapore based corporation. My responsibilities included managing multiple client environments and various accounts as Legal Counsel for my father’s startup venture. I dealt with prospective clients by interacting with the key sponsors in various multinational companies and drafted corporate and commercial agreements. I also extensively advised on post execution enforcement issues, exit options under joint venture agreements, compliances under the companies’ law and FDI regulations.

     

    After serving at your father’s startup venture, you have joined CPA Global as a Senior Associate. Please walk us through your appointment procedure and interviews. Also, tell us about your work profile at CPA Global.

    The HR Manager at CPA Global contacted me after going through my work profile on a leading online Indian employment portal. They briefed me about the job description which involved giving legal solutions to a leading overseas metal and mining corporation. The work was challenging and interesting. Also since my father’s startup venture was doing really good, I was interested in seeking further challenging opportunities with global organizations so as to further increase and enhance my knowledge. I was selected after the requisite number of interview rounds. My responsibilities included contract drafting and database maintenance, contract review and redlining, contract template creation and revision, contract negotiation and approval support.

     

    Were you doubtful before joining Cornell University? Why did you prefer Masters over your job?

    I have been interested in a Master’s degree in Law ever since I was studying for my LL.B degree at Delhi University. It has been on my mind for the longest possible time but somehow the time was never right. I didn’t simply want an LL.M degree to adorn my already quite impressive repertoire. My desire for pursuing an LL.M degree was to further complement my existing knowledge with an understanding of how to implement my knowledge on an international platform. For that, I obviously needed to gain practical work experience as a lawyer. That was the reason I waited for a few years and got the necessary experience before venturing out to get the much coveted LL.M degree. A Master’s degree in Law, from a reputed university can do wonders to your career prospects, provided you know how to use the knowledge you have gained in order to further your career by putting yourself at par with other globally acclaimed lawyers at an international level.

     

    How did you choose Cornell University over others? How did you go about choosing a university?

    Cornell University is an Ivy League University which is one of a kind just as Harvard, Colombia, Upenn, Princeton and Brown Universities. My criteria for choosing which universities to apply at was primarily based on the institution’s intrinsic reputation, online reviews and from what my seniors who had completed their LL.M abroad, told me. I was selected at the London School of Economics, the National University of Singapore, both Colombia University and University of Pensylvania. However, I chose Cornell because of its reputation for conducting an extremely limited, unbiased and exclusive selection process based entirely on a student’s merit and intelligence. I was also quite keen to study at Cornell, because of its reputation of offering interesting legal courses coupled with the freedom to choose the subjects depending on a student’s individual interests. Cornell also has some of the world’s best teachers in the field of law. Luckily due to my incessant hoping, the blessings of my parents and God’s grace, Cornell selected me and I was offered a place in its prestigious LL.M degree.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    While writing my SOP, I stayed clear of artificiality and repetitiveness. I was honest to myself and tried to convey my career goals and my interests as lucidly as I could. SOP is giving the other person an insight into your career goals, your interests and motivations and most importantly an insight into the kind of person you are. It’s important to be true to yourself and your goals while writing an SOP. The same should be conveyed in a simple yet dynamic choice of vocabulary. Simplicity of language is one of the key factors while writing an SOP.

     

    How about recommendation letters? Who all recommended you to pursue LL.M?

    Recommendation letters are an essential requirement while applying to universities abroad. My teachers at Delhi University very kindly recommended me for my application to the LL.M degree course abroad.

     

    What is your topic of research for LL.M? Why did you choose that subject for research?

    I chose two major topics for my research dissertation while studying for my LL.M degree. Both were original research papers for which I was awarded High Honors and was applauded by my teachers at Cornell University. My first topic of research was on the ‘Global Financial Crisis of 2008 and its effect on Legal Process Outsourcing.’ Though a lot of research has been conducted on the reasons behind the financial crisis of 2008 and its aftermath, yet I found that there was no satisfactory research which explained the connection between the financial crisis and the growth of the LPO industry. My second topic of research was ‘Seeking A Permanent Solution to the Rohingya Crisis.’ The Rohingya are a stateless population belonging to the Northern Rakhine State (formerly Arakan State), who are amongst Burma’s ethnic, linguistic and religious minority groups. The Burmese government has consistently denied this community citizenship status. Their exceptionally harsh treatment by the Burmese authorities and their condition as a persecuted minority has been a topic of international discussion. What amazed me was the fact that this issue had been so prolonged and without any solution still. I gradually conducted a lot of individual research on this issue. Apart from helping out with various non-profit organizations working for these refugees, I also ensured that I took active interest in letting the general public know about this problem. My inherent interest in international law and human rights has ensured my continuing interest in this cause.

     

    Please tell us a little about your academic schedule and the general experience of studying abroad? How different do you think it is from the pedagogy that Indian Universities follow?

    The academic schedule at Cornell University is very well charted out, giving the students enough time to conduct self study and participate in various scholastic as well as extra-curricular activities. Depending on what subjects you take your classes can start as early as 8:45 in the morning and end at 10 in the night. Since students are not encouraged to take more than 13 credits per semester, most students have an easy schedule. I personally had 18 credits for one semester, but due to the amazingly co-ordinated manner in which the classes were scheduled, I found that I still had ample time on my hands to do as I pleased. Indian Universities put a lot of value on study by rote method, which is not the case at Cornell. At Cornell rather than remembering cases and citing important legal judgments, we were expected to give our own personal opinion on whatever we studied. That opened up a lot of opportunity for thinking as a lawyer while still preparing as a student. Also before each class, we had assigned readings to do so that we would be able to get what the teachers are saying in class. The teachers, as a rule do not teach from the book. Rather, they have a Socratic manner of imparting education, whereby each student is called and asked for an opinion on the topic assigned for that particular day.

     

    Does Cornell University provide students with scholarships? Are there any other institutions, which provide scholarships?

    Cornell University does provide financial aid to deserving candidates. I am not so sure about scholarships though. Usually educational institutes abroad do not provide scholarships, but there may be exceptions. Instead, they give financial aid as and if required by an applicant. For this the applicant needs to show proof of requirement for the financial aid.

     

    You are about to finish your LL.M from Cornell University this year. So, what next?

    I am planning to take the New York State Bar exam soon. In the mean while, I do have a few job offers, two of which are from reputed software companies in India for the position of Legal Counsel, one is from a leading law firm in Singapore, and two are from real estate companies in the US. I also have a job offer from a newspaper publication in the UK, but for that I need to take a few exams in order to be eligible to practise law in the UK, and I am not too keen on that. And yes, I have an offer from Google but the position is based out of Tel Aviv, Israel. Depending on the circumstances and the remuneration offered, I shall make a decision soon.

     

    What led to your academic and professional achievements?

    (Amrapali was awarded “Scroll of Honor” for “Promising New Advocate of the Year” by the Hon’ble President of India, at the International Conference of Jurists while pursuing her graduation from Delhi University. She was also awarded High Honors for writing original research papers on “Global Financial Crisis of 2008 and its effect on Legal Process Outsourcing” and “Seeking A Permanent Solution to the Rohingya Crisis” at Cornell University.)

    My academic and professional records have been flawless. I have always been an exceptionally bright student scoring good marks throughout my academic career. As a lawyer I have always given my best to all my legal assignments. During the course of my education at Delhi University and my then ongoing internship at the Supreme Court of India, my name was recommended for the “Scroll of Honor” by my teachers at Delhi University and my seniors at the Supreme Court of India. As for being awarded High Honors for my research papers at Cornell, both my papers were original in their subject matter and analysis, apart from discussing issues of international relevance.

     

    Could you enlighten us, in brief, about your role at Arakan Project  and  Samarpan Foundation as a part of your Volunteering activity beside your  professional life.

    As a volunteer for the Arakan Project, I mostly worked towards ensuring that the Rohingya refugees in India were being given a decent lifestyle with access to health and education facilities. While volunteering at the Samarpan Foundation, I worked towards giving proper legal aid to the erstwhile refugees at Yamuna Pushta.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    Five years from now I see myself having started my own law firm or legal consultancy. That’s a dream which I hope I can achieve. Let’s see.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    No matter which ever profession you are or choose to be in, make sure you enjoy what you do. If you love your work, 60% of the battle is won. The rest 40% depends on your hard work, patience and passion. And of course as in everything in life, 1% depends on God’s grace or luck, but this 1% can actually go towards making or breaking your career. You will see the signs. If in spite of giving all your hard work and dedication, you are still not reaching that desired point in your career then maybe it’s time to do some serious thinking and perhaps make a career switch. It’s never too late for that. On another note you will meet a lot of people. People will try to pull you down and there will also be people who will encourage you. My advice is to greet all kinds of people with a smile on your face and to always be cordial to everybody. Be dignified at all times and never ever compromise on your ideals. Keep your calm in the face of all odds and don’t let failure touch your heart or success go to your head. All the best.

  • George Pothan, Legal Consultant, Ministry of External Affairs, on work experience, LL.M from King’s College and studying law at JSS, Mysore

    George Pothan, Legal Consultant, Ministry of External Affairs, on work experience, LL.M from King’s College and studying law at JSS, Mysore

    George Pothan Poothicote graduated from Christ College, Bangalore with a B.Com degree before going on to complete his LL.B from JSS Law College, Mysore by 2010. While in law school he interned at several places including Ernst & Young and High Court of Kerala. He pursued an LL.M from King’s College, London and finished his masters by 2012. Immediately after completing his LL.M he came back to India and was appointed as Legal Consultant to Legal and Treaties Division, Ministry of External Affairs, Govt. of India, New Delhi and he is currently working there.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at Mysore University.
    • LL.M from King’s College, London.
    • Internships, recruitment and work at Ministry of External Affairs

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your pre law-college years. What motivated you to study law?

    Born in Mysore, I spent my early childhood dividing time between Mysore and Wayanad, and thereafter left to board at Montfort School, situated in Yercaud, a hill station in Tamil Nadu. I went on to do my B.Com at Christ College, Bangalore, LL.B at JSS Law College, Mysore and LL.M at King’s College, London.

    Hailing from a family of lawyers, I grew up imbibing into my very system the lawyers’ lingo and vernacular, and naturally felt drawn to the profession. Therefore, it was a firm and solid choice to become a lawyer myself.

     

    How would you describe your time at Mysore University? Tell us about the academic environment and faculty at the law department of the University.

    The experience was intense and extremely enriching. The student body was intellectually dynamic, with representatives from around the country and even abroad. The faculty included both full time academics and professional practitioners. They were very approachable, and inspired hope, ignited imagination and instilled a love of learning in their students.

     

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    Did you take part in activities apart from your regular curriculum? What all did you do as a law student?

    I participated in practical applications of what I learned, and textbooks gradually came to be of secondary importance to me. In conference settings, at moot courts and in practical classes, I had the opportunity to observe stellar lawyers and law students and noted how effective they were as participants, not only because they possessed superior knowledge, but also because they seemed to instinctively know how to handle a variety of difficult scenarios. Every evening of my final year, I visited the chambers of a senior advocate in Mysore. Also, every Saturday that year, I travelled to a village 35 kilometers from the city to provide free legal aid services and out-of-court settlements, as well as to spread legal awareness.

    My participation in National and International moot court competitions ignited my passion for the field of international law and also enabled me to interact with students and faculty from around the world. I assisted in research work for the scion of the Mysore royal family in the dispute over assets of the royal family and the abolition of the Privy Purse. Later, I helped to draft an anti-ragging bill which was presented to the then Governor of Karnataka. I also represented the college in various seminars and conferences.

    While being good in academics was the most important function during my days at law school, engaging in extracurricular pursuits was a close second. I did indulge in sports and had the privilege of representing my class and college teams in cricket and volleyball.

    My objective during my LLB days was to do my best whilst maintaining a healthy balance and letting other things beyond my control take care of themselves.

     

    Do you believe that excellent CGPA is absolutely necessary for success?

    An excellent CGPA, or any other measure of academic record, can assist in furthering academic pursuits and optimizing the initial recruiting process. That said, the microcosm of university and the world at large are as different as chalk and cheese. In universities one learns the theoretical aspects of law, but for success in the practical applications of the work environment, top grades are not a prerequisite.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation (LL.M)? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Constitution, Criminal Law, Arbitration and International Law were some of the subjects that interested me during my LL.B days. The experience I gained through moot courts, assignments and conferences, as well as my interactions with a number of inspiring people, led me to develop a particular fascination for International Law, both private and public.

    I had long been keen on pursuing an LL.M in International Law, but participated in a variety of modules before finalizing my subjects. My subjects were a combination of Public and Private International Law and International Commercial and Business Law, which may appear to be quite a broad spectrum for the course level. However, the subjects were not as disparate they seem. They included Terrorism and State Violence, World Trade Law, Use of Force, Commercial and Investment Arbitration, and Negotiation. What is especially interesting is the intimate relationship between International Law and Diplomacy. My curriculum combined both.

     

    Please tell us about your internships during your graduation.

    Internships and building work experience had been a consistent part of my academic pursuits during my years as a law student. At the end of my first year in law school, I was able to reinforce my tax related knowledge through an internship with Ernst & Young in their Global Tax Analysis service department in Bangalore. At the end of my second year of law school, I gained invaluable court experience with Honourable Justice R. Basant, a Senior Judge at the High Court of Kerala. I shadowed him closely and was privy to the procedures of the chambers of a High Court Judge, which gave me access to the judge’s files, notes and discussions. I felt particularly privileged as this was a rare opportunity for a student.

    During my final year, I visited the chamber of Advocate KL Sugandhi, a senior advocate in Mysore, which involved interacting with clients, learning procedures and even contributing to work on the cases.

     

    Do you believe branding of college is something that’s very relevant/ important at any stage in a law student’s career?

    Branding seems to have become as inevitable in the field of education as in business. That said, it should be taken with a bucket of salt. Power on the professional battlefield is determined by hard work and dedication above all.

     

    When and how did you decide to pursue Masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavour out of academic interests?

    From the beginning of my law education, I had entertained the idea of pursuing an LL.M degree. That said, I never viewed it as a professional requirement, as I had initially been keen on a career in litigation, for which an LL.B would suffice. Over the course of my LLB, I pondered over the subjects I would like to pursue, and shortlisted the Universities that seemed best suited to my interests.  The LL.M was a great adventure that enabled me to set sail to shores more magnificent than I had ever imagined.

     

    You have done your LL.M. from Kings College London. Please share your experience. Any other university which offers a similar combination of modules?

    It was simply amazing. I was taught and inspired by some of the best professionals in their respective fields: Professors. Martin Hunter, Salim Moollan, Samuel Wordsworth, Dr. Federico Ortino and Dr. Piet Eechout, to name a few. I still am in touch with most of them both at personal and professional levels. Whenever I felt the need for an expert opinion or guidance, these professors were most helpful. The course combined theory with practical applications. The whole system was different from what I was familiar with at the LL.B level. In addition to textbook learning, there were group discussions, debates and lots of interactive sessions, with an emphasis on research. We were encouraged to write papers and discuss them.

    I still have fond memories of a workshop conducted by Prof. Martin Hunter, visits to his chambers at Essex Court Chambers and a Friday clinic he used to organise. Another unforgettable experience is the time I spent at the WTO, where I was able to interact with key people of the WTO Secretariat and Country representatives, and gain valuable insight into the incredible operations of such a hallowed institution.

    There are other Universities that offer such modules, but I am not in a position to recommend them.

     

    How will you compare the pedagogy at Mysore University with that of King’s College, London?

    Comparing the pedagogy at Mysore University and King’s College is tricky because I attended them at two completely different levels. The LL.B is a basic degree in law, structured primarily to meet the general requirements of practitioners in the field. An LL.M is an additional qualification that involves specialization, and as such the structure of the LL.M diverges from that of the LL.B.  During my LLB, most of my professors were full time faculty, whereas during my LL.M, the majority of lecturers were practitioners in their respective fields, and their experience and expertise did make a difference.  A good teacher always brings out the best in his/her students. I consider myself lucky to have been mentored by the right kind of teachers.

    Diversity was perhaps the most significant difference between the two programs. At King’s College, the faculty and the University at large catered to a crowd from across the globe. The student community at Mysore University was primarily Indian.

     

    Looking back, how significant do you think that your legal education was? When did you happen to experience the learning curve?

    I believe that my education in its entirety has made me who I am today. My legal education in particular has been significant in shaping my career, and my analytical view of the world.

    As I see it, the learning curve starts from the earliest stages of life. Every single day has presented learning opportunities. I think, therefore I am; I live, therefore I learn. The slope of my learning curve in the legal field took a surge towards the latter part of my LL.M program, and continued to steepen when I entered the Ministry of External Affairs, where I have interacted with some of the best legal minds in the country and around the world. The Senior Official Meetings, Ministerial Meetings and Summits of which I have been a part were incredible experiences. One particular case that gave impetus to my learning curve was a brief I received from Mr. Gourab Banerji, the then Additional Solicitor General of India, during my early days at the Ministry. It was my first significant case, and it was an exciting challenge. More recently, I have had the privilege of being involved with the Law Commission of India in its work on investment treaties, which has been quite insightful.

    I look forward to the continuing intellectual stimulation of my work. Learning is an integral part of the profession, as it shifts like the sands of time.

     

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    You joined Ministry of External Affairs as a Legal Consultant; what worked for you in getting appointed?

    I assume that my academic pursuits and passion for the profession, in addition to the support I received from the then External Affairs Minister, Mr. Salman Khurshid, who had faith in my ability and trusted me with such great responsibility, led to my appointment.

     

    What are the career opportunities at MEA like?

    The MEA provides excellent opportunities for those interested in the international dimensions of law. We deal with treaty negotiations and international law disputes. Diplomacy is integral to the mix. That said, our work is not exclusively on an international level, as we do examine domestic law issues on occasion.

     

    Are Legal Consultants allowed foreign postings? How does their work interact with that of the Indian Foreign Service?

    Foreign postings are certainly available to those belonging to the Legal Cadre of the MEA. The Hague headquarters the International Court of Justice and the Permanent Court of Arbitration. Geneva and New York City are bases for numerous international organisations.

    The responsibilities of international law and diplomacy require a great amount of interaction with foreign service officers and other government representatives.

     

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    Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of a law firm and legal department of the govt. offices?

    Most certainly, although I am not in a position to comment in depth on private law firms, as I have never worked in one. In the Government, everyone works for the Government of the day, and the work is not limited to legal issues. The tasks at hand are quite complex: they involve participating in drafting legislation, policy making, negotiating treaties and a variety of other roles. Most importantly, working for the Government means representing the Country and promoting collective rather than individual interests.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at MEA? What are the qualities which they look for in their prospective employees?

    It starts with sending the completed form in the requisite format, along with references, to the Ministry to the Administrative Division (or any other Division that interests a prospective intern). From there, the applications are considered on merit. It is generally difficult to accommodate all applicants considering the huge volume of applications usually received. Details on applying for an internship at the MEA are enumerated on the website of the MEA.

     

    Have you ever considered starting up on your own?

    Starting my own practice has always been at the back of my mind. If I start my private chamber practice, I would focus on litigation before the Supreme Court, High Courts and Tribunals.  Considering my LL.M specialization and current work, I would be keen to pursue an active practice in investment arbitration, as well as international and domestic commercial arbitration.

    I firmly believe that there is potential everywhere, and it is about looking out through the window of opportunity. Talent finds its happiness in execution. Simply follow your heart, make the right choices and be dedicated.

     

    Please tell us about the requisite soft skills which are essential for a young lawyer to build a successful career?

    Communication skills, which are essential in any profession, are particularly valuable for a young lawyer. An open line of communication with colleagues assists in efficiency and securing solid relationships. Clarity, charisma and discretion must be kept in mind when dealing with clients.

    Commitment is important, given the heavy workload of young lawyers, and the established standards of excellence.

    Creativity is an immense asset, as innovation and thinking outside the box aid in problem solving and negotiation.

     

    What are your views on the future of Indian legal education? How would you suggest that a law student manages to stay ahead?

    I would like our institutions to compete with the best in the world. There is no dearth of resources in India, but we have to make optimal use of them. I hope to live to see the day our institutions are ranked among the best in the world, and pray that it is not far away. We need to support academicians in their pursuit. I personally am of the view that institutions should create a platform to bring in greater interaction between practitioners and students. The greatest asset of any educational institution is the character of its teachers. We need to encourage research and avoid spoon feeding. Classrooms should be about imparting knowledge and not forcing one’s views on the others. Students should be prepared to face the world outside beyond the realms of the microcosm of universities. I would suggest encouraging research and more practical classes and workshops. They are the need of the hour. The legal fraternity has to come together and support our institutions with a clear roadmap for the way ahead.

     

    What are the three things you consider law students should do in their careers?

    To me, goals should be set individually, and not based on what someone else has achieved. Be yourself, as they say. The markers of success vary, but generally, I would say that it can be achieved by staying focused, working smart and being organized. Professional mileage can be optimized with perseverance, perspiration and a stroke of luck.

     

    What would be your parting message to young lawyers?

    Here I would like to borrow from Mr. Fali Nariman, who lists the following in his autobiography “Before Memory Fades”:

    • A lawyer’s opinion should be honest and responsible,
    • A good lawyer should acquaint oneself with relevant law, including case law on the subject at hand,
    • One should be clear and precise, not confused,
    • One should keep oneself informed and up to date with all the reported judgments and decisions of the Supreme Court and High Courts,
    • A lawyer should be well prepared for his case.

    A lawyer must never stop learning, for intellect demands clarity and certainty. That said, circumstances render uncertainty inevitable and fascinating. In an ever changing world, progress is proportional to the capacity to endure uncertainty.

    One’s name is a prized possession in this mortal world, which through our acts, deeds and achievements can be immortalized and etched in the minds of generations to come.

     

  • Pratyush Nath Upreti, Advanced Masters, (LL.M) Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management at Maastricht University, on pro-bono work and the KIIT Law School experience

    Pratyush Nath Upreti, Advanced Masters, (LL.M) Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management at Maastricht University, on pro-bono work and the KIIT Law School experience

    Pratyush studied law from KIIT Law School, Bhuvaneshwar, he graduated in 2013. Being a citizen of Nepal, he chose India to pursue B.Sc. LLB. After the successful completion of his bachelors, he is pursuing Advance Masters (LLM) in Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management from Maastricht University, Netherlands on a scholarship. He had interned extensively through the years of law school and published nearly 30 articles in The Kathmandu Post. In this exclusive conversation with Pratyush, we talk about:

    • Education and experience at KIIT Law School.
    • Selecting the appropriate publishing companies for his journals.
    • Interning at Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL), Bangkok,
    • Being a Member of New IP Lawyer’s, a wing of School of Law and its research centre called SCule (Science,Culture and the Law) under the University of Exeter, United Kingdom.
    • Undergoing exchange programmes at The Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market of European Union (OHIM), Spain
    • Pursuing LLM in Intellectual Property Law and Knowledge Managment from Maastricht University, Netherlands.

     

    Tell us a bit about your pre-college life. How did you choose to study law that too in India? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I come from the Biratnagar, city of influential leaders in Nepalese politics. Being the youngest child of my parents, I began the journey of my student life by following my elder sister’s footsteps to one of the most prestigious schools of the city. In school, my inquisitive mind as a young student ran into almost all nooks and corners of the colorful life. I was not a great student but lived my life into the realm of education.

    When I finished my intermediary, civil war in the form of a Maoist insurgency ended with the signing of the comprehensive peace agreement and formation of a Constituent Assembly. Nepal was in transitional phase(still in transitional phase), we were taking the first step towards building a constitutional democracy. During the phase, many friends opted to go abroad for higher studies which were never an option for me.

    When I decided to peruse law there were very limited option in Nepal. Moreover, India is also not far away from Nepal, it was a convenient option. I was also attracted by the unique integration of law and science. So, I decided to join the B.Sc.LLB(Hons) stream in KIIT Law school, a newly born law school with a colourful dream, like that of mine of marking a mark of its own in the highly competitive legal arena.

    Yes, I belong from a legal background, my father is a senior advocate practicing in Nepal and my grandfather served as a Judge of Nepal. I think I represent the third generation of lawyers in my family.

     

    While in KIIT Law School you selected B.Sc. LL.B as your stream. What would be your advice to law aspirants about choosing a stream? Did it give you an edge over B.A. LL.B graduates? Does it have a long lasting effect?

    In recent years, legal education has rapidly changed. The unique integration of law and science is an attractive career option. The law and science offer plenty of opportunity in the sector of forensic science and Intellectual property law. During my short working experience, I have felt that there are high demands for lawyers with scientific/technological backgrounds. Anyone interested in B.Sc.LL.B should keep in mind the course structure of the college offering the course. Make sure they have good science faculty and if you are interested in taking biotechnology as a major then well-equipped laboratory is important. I was the first batch of B.Sc.LL.B(Hons) course in my college, but I had some laboratory works. Fortunately, My university had separate well-equipped Biotechnology faculty which was an additional advantage for me. Since, there is not much of crowd of lawyers with knowledge of both the field, a B.Sc.LL.B(Hons) graduates do have an advantage from a job perspective.

     

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    If I were a young law student who never wrote an article, how would you advise me to get started given that you yourself wrote a lot?

    To be honest, I never pre-planned to write an article. Most of my articles are the outcome of my project which I did during law school or internship. Choosing a topic which is contemporary is important for publishing an article. I suggest law student to identify contemporary legal issues and continue as a project for the course. If you do your research honestly, then certainly you will end up publishing.

     

    How would you select a specific journal and approach them for publication? What are the things you look for in a journal before sending them your article for publication? Can you tell us the steps involved in researching and structuring an academic paper?

    Selecting a Journal is not easy, there are two important things, which I look before sending an article. Firstly, the journal timeline for a review process. When you research honestly, you get ambitious about the project and really want to publish in good Journal. But sometimes, a long review process of the journal is really frustrating. There were few Journals who replied me after a 15 months. It was really painful! But as a student you should never be discouraged by rejection or late replies. Before sending your article, it is important to know about the Journal well( just email and ask about timeline for review). Secondly, I see the focus area of a journalif your topic matches those area’s or related contemporary issues than your acceptance chances are really high.

    There are generally accepted ways of researching and structuring the paper. For me research is important, I try to gather as much of information from various sources like books, Journal, reports, internet etc. Once I gathered information, I tried to find contemporary issues/problem involved and put my thoughts in a logical way and roughly draft a research outline which will help not to divert from focus area. For any writing may be a newspaper or academic journal structuring is important. Your writing must reflect you thoughts and every section need to clearly link. Mostly importantly for academic writing reference/bibliography/footnote is very important. Generally, accepted standard structure includes Abstract, Introduction, research question, discussion (arguments advanced), conclusion/recommendation and bibliography.

     

    How did you plan your internships and how did you go about applying for these internships?

    (Pratyush has interned quite extensively through his 5 years at law school. Some noteworthy mentions are Anand and Anand; Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL), Bangkok, Thailand; Singh & Associates, Advocates and Solicitors; Sycip Salazar Hernandez & Gatmaitan Attorney At-Law, Philippines; The Ministry of Home Affairs, Parliamentary Affairs, Constituent Assembly and Culture, New Delhi, India; Enviro Legal Defense Firm, New Delhi, India and other places as well.)

    Early planning is very important to secure a good internship. Mostly, I planned my internship at least a 6-8 months before. This is important because, you can never depend on one organization or law firm. You need to file a several application. The application process depends completely on the institute which you intend to apply. Most of the organizations where I interned had similar recruitment pattern, I just applied online with a short cover letter and resume.

     

    What kind of work did you typically find yourself doing as an intern? Did your experiences vary significantly with the internships?

    I had a diverse internship experience. My task and workload as intern completely depend upon where I was interning. In law firms, I had long working hours and mostly I ended up doing a lot of draftings, research on several issues and assisted litigation team. Some of the research which I did in the law firm was published in law firms in-house Journals. On the other hand, in an organization you mostly do research work, they will make you involved in the ongoing project. During my school, I was fortunate to do two international internships. First, at Sycip Salazar Hernandez & Gatmaitan Attorney-At-Law, one of the biggest law firms in Philippines where I was involved in commercial and Intellectual property division. I mostly assisted the team with the prosecution of trademark, patent registration, review of technology transfer arrangement, franchise and distributorship agreement etc. Second, at ANFREL, I researched on several electoral issues and assisted drafting team of ‘Bangkok Declaration of Free & Fair Elections’. During my stay, I also got an opportunity to observe the election. It was a great learning experience.

     

    What comprised your work profile as a Legal Researcher at the “Forum for Protection of Public Interest (Pro-Public)”? Please share with our readers.

    Forum for Protection of Public Interest (Pro-Public) is one of the reputed organization in Nepal. It has a long history of contribution to socio-legal development in Nepal. Pro-public gives an opportunity a law student to voluntarily associate with the organization in different capacities. I was fortunate enough to associate myself with the organization during law school.

    During my undergraduate, I had an experience of research work. At law school, I worked as research assistant in University Grant Commission (UGC) main project titled “ Use of Forensic Science in Criminal Justice System: A futuristic Project”. Similarly, I did some research work for Cobalt Business Counsel Professional Corporation, Ontario, Canada for few months. Furthermore, my research internship with Enviro Legal Defense Foundation, Nepal Law Commission, and The Ministry of Home Affairs, Parliamentary Affairs, Constituent Assembly and Culture, was largely based on legal issued related to Nepal. Maybe this gave me an edge than other candidates during the recruitment process.

     

    Thereafter, you have joined Asian Network for Free & Fair Elections (ANFREL) as their Legal /Liaison Officer. Do you think, it became easier to get appointed because you have interned earlier at ANFREL?

    I don’t think so, internship experience helped me to get the position at ANFREL. ANFREL is a professional organization, they have transparent and heavy recruitment process. I came to know about the vacancy through a Newspaper. I did go through a screening process and had a very long interview by ANFREL Secretariat. Luckily, I got through the interview.

     

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    What kind of work does ANFREL do? Please brief us about the nature of work and responsibilities you were entrusted at ANFREL.

    The Asian Network for Free Elections (ANFREL) was established in 1997, as Asia’s first regional network of civil society organizations focused on elections and election monitoring. It strives to promote and support democratization at national and regional levels in Asia. Since it was founded, it has served towards strengthening the democratization of countries such as Sri Lanka, Nepal, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, East Timor and Indonesia.It is one of the most trusted and reliable International Election Observation Group globally. They mostly focus on three area: (i) Election observation (ii) capacity building (iii) campaigns and advocacy.As Legal/Liaison Officer, I was involved in providing legal assistance to the ANFREL Election Management/Observer team. During my tenure, I reviewed national electoral law and assisted the ANFREL team in making Observation manual and reports. In addition, I was also involved in organizing and co-ordinating meeting with several stakeholder, civil societies, and politicians and also observed Constituent Assembly Election. I must say, I had a wonderful experience working with ANFREL. They have great working culture and ethics.

     

    Right after ANFREL, you went for LL.M. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    Initially, I wanted go right after my graduation but later decided to take a break of a year. There is no reason as such, I always wanted to continue my studies and then focus in practice.

    How did you go about choosing which college to go to for your LL.M. and did you ever consider Indian colleges? Was it the course or the university which mattered for you?

    I was very clear that I want to do LLM in Intellectual Property Law from abroad. Since, I have spent five years at law school in India so I didn’t want to have similar quality of education. So, never considered Indian colleges. The First thing I did was listing of colleges which offer LLM in intellectual property Law. I applied to three universities; School of Law University of New Hampshire (formerly known as the Franklin Pierce Centre of Intellectual Property) USA, Queen Mary University of London, UK and Maastricht University. I was accepted in all three. I got the scholarship from Franklin Pierce and Maastricht University and opted later.

     

    Tell us about your LL.M year at The Maastricht University, The Netherlands which you are currently pursuing.

    I am doing Advanced Master in Intellectual Property Law and Knowledge Management. It is a unique master program for lawyers, non-lawyers, and those with a degree in science of technology. It is popularly known as IPKM. The Advanced Masters IPKM are fully accredited by the Accreditation Organization of the Netherlands and Flanders (NVAO). The IPKM MSc is furthermore accredited by the European Patent office (EPO) for EQE remission. In addition, IPKM is a member of the European Intellectual Property Institutes Network (EIPIN) and a founding member of the Pan-European Seal Professional Traineeship Programme.

    Maastricht University is known for the problem-based learning environment where students are personally responsible for their academic education. The IPKM is taught in a very closed group, where the student analyzes the problems through discussions, exchange knowledge. The programme is taught in socratic teaching, often using real-life cases, mock trials and assignment (mind it, it’s not a piece of cake, it will dig you into the subject matter which we need to submit before class). The tasks are further discussed and analyzed along with lectures during class. Basically, it was fun working within a diverse class, amazing study visit. To conclude, IPKM provides a lot of opportunity for learning and networking. If you want to excel in Intellectual property, IPKM is the right choice! Go for it!!

     

    How difficult was studying abroad in terms of finding accommodation, finances and settling in? Are there any scholarships for studying at the Maastricht University?

    Not at all! Particularly, at Maastricht we have a very friendly student service center (SCC) which helps the international student in finding accommodation if needed. I didn’t have a problem as such, I found accommodation through online. There are facebook pages which provide information on accommodation, and most of them are very reliable. Maastricht University do provide Scholarships for International Students which are available on University Official website. I was lucky enough to get a UM High Potential Student Scholarship, which really made my life easy.

     

    How is the faculty & academic schedule (your typical day) at Maastricht? Given your experiences how would you pit Indian students with their foreign contemporaries?

    The faculty staff in the IPKM are very diverse and immensely supportive. It includes professor and practitioner from different jurisdictions, most notably Europe, Asia, and the United States of America. We had a very intense module on US Copyright Law taught by Professor Edward Lee, Director of the Program in Intellectual Property Law, Chicago-Kent College of Law, United States. Similarly, some of module was taught by Professor of Queen mary University, the University of Nottingham, and few class were taken by European Patent attorney etc. In addition, we have series of IPKM expert lectures by practitioner’s which enlighten us on contemporary IP issues. My day starts with waking up, and riding to the library, preparing for classes and assignments. There is always a number of readings for class, which are expected to be discussed in class. Generally, I return very late from the library in fact library is my sanctuary) and then I have to try and cook which I really hate.

     

    Was there time enough for non academic pursuits at Maastricht? How did you find the study-life balance to be?

    Not really! IPKM is very hectic!! (That’s what you expect from competitive course) we get few days off in Christmas. But Maastricht is a beautiful place, there are several things to do besides academic. On balancing study-life, I am the right person to answer that, I always struggle.

    Tell us about the course structure of an Advanced Master (LLM) Intellectual Property Law & Knowledge Management at Maastricht University.

    The Advanced Masters in Intellectual Property Law and Knowledge Management (IPKM ) offered at Maastricht University Faculty of Law are designed to train graduates to work as legal practitioners or management in knowledge-intensive industries and research institutes. The IPKM offers two distinct degrees:

    (1) A LLM degree focusing on comparative IP litigation and/or entrepreneurship, valorization and IP management

    (2) A MSc degree for graduates of science and technology aspiring to become IP specialists, knowledge managers, or patent attorneys.

    The IPKM course is designed in three main pillars

    (1) the common course for both LLM and MSc student are taught together

    (2) mandatory course for both LLM

    (3) mandatory MSc track.

    Some of the intensive modules offered is Intellectual Property in USA and Asia, patent drafting, IP enforcement, Intellectual Property & Life science among others.

    For more information, you can visit

    (http://www.maastrichtuniversity.nl/web/Faculties/FL/AdvancedMasterInIntellectualPropertyLaw).

     

    How did you benefit from the different programmes you took up after admission to IPKM?

    (Pratyush underwent a couple of training and exchange programmes after he had secured admission at Maastricht University, some of which are Module on Community Trademark at The Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market of European Union (OHIM), Spain; Study visit at European Patent Office, Hague, Netherlands; Attending Congress of European Intellectual Property Institute Network (EIPIN) organized at Maastricht University and Max Planck Institute for Innovation and Competition.)

    IPKM as well designed course which aims to provide plenty of learning opportunities for the student. I had one module in University of Alicante in The Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market of European Union (OHIM), Spain, it was a great experience. The modules were taught by European trademark/design examiner and practitioners. Similarly, Congress of European Intellectual Property Institute Network (EIPIN) held at Maastricht and Max Planck Institute for Innovation and Competition/European Patent Office were two days intense discussion on contemporary Issues of Intellectual property Laws. In both, the event sessions were addressed by scholars from Europe and The United States. Personally, I really enjoyed these events, you get to know emerging issues in IP Law and also an opportunity for networking.

     

    Please share a few words about you being Member of New IP Lawyer’s, a wing of School of Law and its research centre called SCule (Science,Culture and the Law) under the University of Exeter, United Kingdom.

    New IP Lawyer’s is a network of young academic and practitioner in IPR. It is the initiative of Ph.D. student at the University of Exeter and have network representative at the University of Oxford. The network aims to encourage and facilitate discussion of the issues related to IP law both by lawyers and non-lawyers. Recently, the network successfully held the first annual conference: who owns the Arts and Sciences? At the University of Exeter where renowned academic like Professor Lionel Bently(University of Cambridge), Professor Charlotte Waelde among others were key speakers. The Newtork is relatively new, in a very less time it has received overwhelming support. New IP Lawyer’s is also aiming to organise seminar series and several academic event. Stayed tuned at http://newiplawyers.wix.com/newiplawyers

     

    Is writing is your hobby? How do you manage to write for newspaper on various issues beside your LL.M studies and other engagements?

    (Pratyush has published approximately 30 newspaper articles till date at The Kathmandu Post& among others, on various issues.)

    I enjoy writing it connects me with readers. I never took writing as a hobby, I started writing during my undergraduate. When I was studying in India, I always wanted to involve in socio-legal issues and give my opinion on such matters. The newspaper was the perfect forum to share my thoughts and involved in several issues happening in Nepal. After law school, I continued writing and still I regularly contribute on socio-legal/political issues in Nepal. It makes me happy when readers send feedback or point of disagreement on issues and it also helps to improve writing. I never take writing as a burden, whenever we come across interesting issues we always have an opinion, just that I gather my thoughts and write. Most important, writing gives me a lot of pleasure; I feel a sense of freedom.

     

    What is your responsibility as a student member of Maastricht University for European Intellectual Property Institutes Network (EIPIN).

    IPKM is a member of the European Intellectual Property Institutes Network (EIPIN). Every year few students are selected to represent as a student member of EIPIN where we get the opportunity to attend EIPIN congress and participate in the group projects. I was assigned with team project which consists of five student from Queen Mary Intellectual Property Research Institute(University of London), Munich Intellectual Property Law Center (MIPLC), Centre for International Intellectual Property (CEIPI) University of Strasbourg, Magister Lvcentinvs (University of Alicante). My team has already submitted our research project titled “Permitting Transformative Use and Copyright Law: The Case of Parody as Innovation” to EIPIN committee. It had a great time working together with fellow students.

     

    What are your future plans? How do you plan to use the experience and the knowledge gathered at Maastricht?

    I successfully defended my thesis, just winding up my course at Maastricht. Most probably I will be returning home in August, and practice litigation. Although, Intellectual Property regime is not very well developed back home which makes it more challenging to take IP as a career but again it give an opportunity to participate in the process to develop the field. The experience and knowledge gathered at Maastricht surely have given me in-depth knowledge about global IP practice which will surely help in instituting policy reform in Nepal.

     

    And any word of advice for all the young law students out there?

    Learn, question and make the most out of the law school. Make sure you enjoy your student life as well. Good luck!

     

  • Rishab Kumar, Junior Associate, David Polk & Wardell, NY, on experience at GLC, Mumbai, the cost of an LL.M from Columbia University and International Law Firms

    Rishab Kumar, Junior Associate, David Polk & Wardell, NY, on experience at GLC, Mumbai, the cost of an LL.M from Columbia University and International Law Firms

    Rishab Kumar is working as a Junior Associate at David Polk & Wardwell LLP. He had graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2009. While in college, he interned as a law clerk with Justice Cyriac Joseph and worked at diverse places such as Reserve Bank of India and Majumdar and Partners. Later, he went on to join the chambers of Mr. Darius Khambata (Additional Solicitor General of India at the time) as a Junior Attorney. After working for a year, he entered into a two year training contract with Linklaters. Thereafter, he went to pursue an LL.M from Columbia University where at the end of his course, he was offered a job at David Polk & Wardwell. This interview brings out the journey of a law student to become a corporate lawyer working in one of the leading law firms in the world.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His experience at GLC, Mumbai – being a founder member of GLC, Debating Society and conceiving GLC Policy Debate;
    • His internship experience with Justice Cyriac Joseph, Reserve Bank of India and Majumdar & Partners;
    • Linklaters and his training contract with them;
    • Doing LL.M from Columbia and then joining David Polk LLP.
    • His experience as an expert in Merger and Acquisition between India and China.
    • The merits and demerits of both corporate lawyer and a litigating lawyer.

     

    How will you introduce yourself to our readers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    To introduce myself, I would start by saying that I was born and raised in Bombay (as it was then called) and I went to school and college there. I took to law because it was a field that gathered within itself two possibilities: intellectual stimulation and a rewarding professional career (and also because I wasn’t any good at mathematics). I always enjoyed debating, model UNs and was drawn to the humanities subjects generally, so it seemed like the right choice to me.

     

    What activities were you involved in as a student? Looking back, is there anything you wish you had done differently?

    Given the way the five year law course at GLC is organized, I always saw it as an opportunity to explore various aspects of the legal profession. Being in Mumbai, I was able to intern at law firms, with senior counsel, at the RBI and law clinics, all with the aim of getting a broader perspective on the industry.

    In college, I spent my time mooting, debating, writing articles and serving as a student editor on the GLC Law Review. All these activities really help developing the skills required to be a good lawyer.

    Looking back, I wish I had better grades through law school, because that’s something you’re always answerable for in black and white. But, it’s not an insurmountable obstacle. I devoted time to co-curricular activities and I don’t regret that – it’s important for everyone to find their own balance.

     

    What motivated you to start a debating society and why did you decide to organize the ‘GLC Policy Debate’?

    (Rishab was one of the founders of the GLC Debating Society, and also conceived and organized the ‘GLC Policy Debate’.)

    GLC already had a very vibrant community of intellectually curious students who were keen to debate everything from Plato to Pluto. The debating society was meant to be a structured outlet for these discussions and to provide students a platform to express their views. It instils public speaking confidence in those who lacked it. It was a particularly rewarding process because GLC, as a government college, has students from a wide range of backgrounds and this led to a remarkable diversity of opinion.

    The GLC Policy Debate was formed along the lines of the Oxford Union policy debate which used to be framed as “This House has No Confidence in Her Majesty’s Government”. We adapted this to the Indian context and invited noted bureaucrats, academics and journalists to defend and oppose the government’s policies. The debate was conducted on the steps of the Asiatic Society Library, for its symbolic significance as the former Town Hall of Mumbai. This was a unique event in India in that it was a fair and frank assessment of the government’s policies by an intelligent audience, with students voting at the end.

    The most challenging part of organizing this was obtaining the infinite government permits and approvals required to hold this event in a public space – particularly given the controversial topic.

     

    Please describe your internship experiences for our readers.

    (During Rishab’s time at law school, he interned with Justice Cyriac Joseph, Supreme Court of India, as a Law Clerk; Reserve Bank of India as a Research Intern and Majmudar & Partners as a Trainee.)

    With its early morning classes, the five-year course at GLC allows students to spend time working as an apprentice during the afternoons and gain a very real initiation in the practice of law. Students can either choose to be at one firm/organization for the duration or do a variety of different things. Both paths have their merits, but I chose the latter. The range of experience I gained offered me a unique perspective in that it allowed me to read and research a wide variety of subjects and learn how they were applied in practice. I was also able to meet some extremely inspiring people at these organizations, some of whom remain mentors till today. Most importantly perhaps, this variety in experience was useful to me when I applied to foreign law firms and LL.Ms.

    Clerking in the Supreme Court was a fantastic experience because I was able to witness some of the great lawyers of our time arguing the most significant legal issues of the day. Working as a research intern at the RBI, I learnt to value the role of a central bank in the economy and caught a small glimpse of how policies are formed at such institutions. At Majmudar & Partners, I gained my first experience working at a corporate law firm and interacting with clients. All these experiences gave me a solid foundation and held me in good stead going forward.

     

    Please tell us about your experience working with Mr. Darius Khambata.

    (After graduation, Rishab joined the Chambers of Mr. Darius Khambata (Additional Solicitor General of India at the time) as a junior attorney and worked there for 1 year before leaving to start a training contract at Linklaters.)

    By the time I joined the Chambers of Mr. Khambata, I knew that I would be leaving in 8-10 months to start a training contract at Linklaters in London. Mr. Khambata was kind enough to let me follow him around during this time. He is a towering figure at the bar and an inspiring human being. Working in his chambers was an extremely rewarding experience.

    My general duties were to research and assist Mr. Khambata in court. Mr. Khambata was the Additional Solicitor General of India at the time, so I was able to research and follow matters that involved constitutional law issues, administrative law issues, international and trade law issues – a variety of interesting subjects. This was really a dream assignment, because as a junior lawyer you typically don’t get to write research memos and spend hours reading Supreme Court cases to formulate and test arguments on such fundamental matters. But this was what I did during my time in chambers and it was a tremendous learning experience. I also enjoyed the camaraderie and tradition of working on the original side of the Bombay High Court.

     

    When did you start thinking to opt for a training contract from a foreign law firm?

    I started first with the idea of doing an internship abroad, because I thought it would be a valuable experience and good for my CV. At one point, I might have written emails to over 50 firms all over the UK. I didn’t get a single positive response. That’s when I learnt about the Linklaters India Internship program. I had missed the deadline for that year, so I decided to apply the next year. The application process for the internship was quite detailed. I spent a considerable amount of timing drafting and finalizing my application.

    I was thrilled to be offered the internship, which turned out to be more fun than I had expected. Living in London and being wined and dined every other evening was really an enjoyable experience. You also get to do some real work and get a glimpse of what life as a trainee is like. At the end of the internship, you’re invited to interview for a training contract. When I was offered the training contract, I thought that if I was going to practice corporate law, what better place to start than Linklaters in London – the work is exciting, the training is excellent and the compensation is very attractive.

     

    International Law Firms stress on commercial awareness. What sources, materials, books, newspapers or blogs did you read to crack commercial awareness?

    International firms do stress about this. But, reading the business newspapers and perhaps the Economist should hold you in good stead. You’re not expected to know the closing share price of Infosys the day before – just a general awareness of what’s going on in the world with a particular emphasis on things that would affect the practice of a global law firm.

     

    Describe your experience applying to Linklaters. Is there any specific point to keep in mind while writing the application process?

    The application process for the internship was quite detailed. Several essays, two rounds of interviews and an aptitude test. My advice to anyone applying is to take the application seriously. Spend time to read it, re-read and then proof-read it. I remember the recruiting department used to say, if an application contains more than three obvious typos, that’s probably a straight cut.

     

    How did you prepare for the Aptitude Tests in connection with your application? Do you recommend to undergo proper training for this?

    I’m quite certain that the Aptitude Tests don’t require any specific preparation – and that’s part of the objective. It’s probably useful to sample a few IQ tests and maybe the Watson Glazer critical thinking test, but only to get a sense for what to expect. It’s not a test that you’re expected to prepare for. The only thing that can hurt you on this test is to stress about it.

     

    Could you briefly describe the interview process for us?

    The interview is typically a casual conversation about your past, what you have done with your time and why you’re interested in the firm. Always have a story and explanation for every item on your CV because, if it’s on your CV, an interviewer is entitled to ask you about it. You’ll rarely be tested on a point of law, and even if you are, if you reason your answer correctly, not knowing the actual provision of law is completely acceptable. Research the firm and the interviewer – it’ll help you understand what they’re looking for. Ultimately, it’s just about making intelligent conversation and showing that culturally, you will be the right fit.

     

    Describe your time at Linklaters during your Training Contract. Also, briefly describe your work experience in various practice areas while undergoing Training Contract at Linklaters in London.

    The training contract is a 2 year contract where you rotate through four different practice areas. I chose to work in Capital Markets, Litigation, Banking and Corporate (M&A). The work you do in each practice area depends on the people you work with and the nature of the transaction/case. In most circumstances, you will play the role of a junior lawyer on the transaction/case, which may involve some tedious work (due-diligence, document review etc.), but you’ll also get asked to do interesting research and even get the opportunity to interact with clients. The people you work with are extremely intelligent and inspiring and the quality of training is really excellent. It’s also exciting to work on the most high-profile cases that you read about the next day in the newspapers. At the end of the training contract, trainees are expected to choose a practice area to ‘qualify’ into and this is a question of preference and a person’s area of interest.

    I enjoyed my time most in the Corporate (M&A) department because out of the various corporate groups, it seemed to me, the most tangible and relatable – a company buying or merging with another company. Every task that you perform is in furtherance of this objective and that simple context makes your work understandable and rewarding.

     

    What motivated you to leave Linklaters and pursue LL.M. at that point of time?

    (After completing Rishab’s Training Contract, he went on to pursue LL.M. from Columbia University School of Law, New York.)

    I had always wanted to do an LL.M. simply because I wanted to study further. There were a lot of subjects that I wanted to learn more about and to immerse myself in an academic environment. I knew that this would not be possible while working at a corporate law firm. The end of the training contract is a clean break and gave me the opportunity to get away and study for one last time.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP for Columbia? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    Writing an SOP is a deeply meaningful and personal exercise and one should treat it as such. It’s a process that cannot be rushed – I remember when I applied to Columbia, I had probably started writing my essay in June for a November deadline. I think the most important thing to do with an SOP, is to read the question. Each university has a different format and rather than viewing them all as the same essay, it’s better to look at the specific question and answer the question.

     

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    Tell us about the cost of an LL.M. at Columbia Law School? Did you receive any scholarship? Does Columbia Law School provide students with scholarships?

    The cost of an LL.M. at Columbia Law School is approximately US$80,000 (including tuition, rent and reasonable living expenditure). I know that Columbia Law School offers a number of scholarships, but I wasn’t offered any that year and I financed my LL.M. through a student loan. There are several educational trusts in India that will offer scholarships to students, but many of them are in the form of an interest free loan. If a scholarship is not forthcoming or feasible, the cost of an LL.M. is a factor that one should consider thoroughly. It is not easy to find a job after an LL.M. that will pay a salary which allows you to pay off that amount of money fast.

     

    After completing your LL.M., did you face any obstacles towards finding a job in the US? What is your opinion on LL.M. recruitment vis a vis  J.D. recruitment?

    Whether it is difficult to find a job in the US is often a function of market conditions which cannot be predicted. In 2013 when I graduated, market conditions were not great and there were few jobs for international lawyers.

    However, the key obstacle is the recruitment cycle. The JD program is a three year course. Students interview for summer associate positions during their first and second year and at the end of their second year, law students will intern at a law firm over the summer. Law firms usually finish their first year recruiting from this cohort of summer associates and by the time LL.M. students arrive in the fall, all law firms have completed their recruitment for the following year. This means that unless a specific position opens up, it is very difficult for LL.M. students to find jobs at US law firms.

    That said, if market conditions are favourable and if you are diligent with your search, it is possible to break in; especially for someone who is able to demonstrate a substantial amount of relevant work experience.

     

    After the LL.M., you joined Davis Polk & Wardwell as an Associate. This is one of the most prestigious and sought-after law firms in the US- how did you come to be offered this position?

    Davis Polk & Wardwell is one of the few firms with a strong India practice and the firm was looking for someone with my profile to do US and Asia cross-border M&A work. At the time, their India practice, as part of the broader Asia practice, was operated mainly out of the Hong Kong office and so I was hired for that position. The firm was a top choice for me and I was extremely fortunate to be offered the position.

     

    After starting in the New York office, you shifted to the Hong Kong office of Davis Polk. What led to this shift?

    I started in the New York office as any US associate, I worked on a few transactions and went through the introductory training program before moving to the Hong Kong office as always planned. The cross-border India, Asia M&A practice in Hong Kong was the right fit for me at the time and so, I moved to the Hong Kong office.

     

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    Your core practice area is Cross-border M&A and PE/VC investments. How did you come to choose this practice area? What skills does one require to be a lawyer in this field?

    I had always been interested in international and cross-border work. But my focus in M&A was developed during the course of my LL.M. The US jurisprudence (Delaware in particular) around corporate M&A transactions is extremely sophisticated and I was drawn to it. Several of my classes were in this field and I enjoyed the nuanced discussion on fiduciary duties, business judgment and shareholder value. I was particularly attracted to the idea that this academic discussion was directly related to the practice of M&A at a US law firm and was constantly evolving.

    Moreover, no two M&A transactions are the same and there is no cookie-cutter method to a transaction. You start with a clean slate each time and tailor your work to the specific context and the client’s objectives. This makes each transaction intellectually stimulating.

    In practice, the role of an M&A lawyer is often to play quarterback to various specialty groups. In any given transaction, there may be labour/employment law issues, tax issues, IP issues, environmental law issues, anti-trust/competition law issues etc. The corporate lawyers have to coordinate and synthesize the advice from such specialist teams and reflect it in the terms of the main transaction documents.

    Ultimately, as an M&A lawyer clients look to you to find solutions. So, thinking on your feet and problem-solving are two crucial skills that a lawyer must possess.

     

    At Davis Polk, you are working on some challenging and highly complex M&A transactions, especially in relation to India & China. Can you tell us about this experience?

    Working at a firm like Davis Polk is a privilege. You work with extremely intelligent people on cutting-edge transactions. Much of my practice today is representing strategic companies or private equity funds in their acquisitions/investments in India, China and South East Asia. Foreign direct investment transactions in these countries are quite challenging to execute and there is always a higher level of risk. One has to be familiar with the local regulations and work closely with local counsel in the target jurisdiction to come up with a viable transaction structure. However, businesses in these regions are growing at exponential rates and the reward for patient and diligent investments can be quite high. These challenges make the work extremely interesting and serve as a great learning experience for a junior lawyer.

     

    You have practised law in Mumbai, London, New York and now Hong Kong. Give us some highlights of India practices at International Firms in USA, UK and Asia.

    Logistically speaking, many international firms have their India practices operated in Singapore, Hong Kong or London. The time difference between India and the US, makes it more difficult to service clients and negotiate with the other side during a transaction from New York or the west coast.

    However, law firms are ultimately professional service firms that are responsive to client needs. India practices at law firms are a good example of this. Firms have India practices only to the extent that clients are interested in doing business in India which is in turn dependant on prevailing economic conditions. It is difficult to sustain a practice solely on inbound and outbound transactions related to India and few firms will hire an associate to do solely India work. From an associate’s perspective, while working at an international law firm, it is important to branch out and be a general corporate lawyer with some India experience. If you want to practice solely Indian law, the place to do it is at an Indian law firm in India.

    There was a time when firms operated India practices outside of India in anticipation of the legal markets opening up in India, but that is not the case anymore as there is no clear indication that the market will open up. This event has been 2 years away for 15 years now.

     

    You have worked with two Top International corporate law firms. Tell us about the work culture of both law firms, their work-ethics, salary package and also comment on the diverse practice areas.

    Linklaters and Davis Polk are both extremely prestigious firms with extremely capable lawyers. They are also both very large organizations and it is impossible to generalize the culture. Both firms demand the highest levels of professionalism and also exhibit tremendous team spirit and work ethic. In terms of offices, magic circle firms tend to be larger and more international than US firms. But, both firms are full service law firms with top-tier corporate practices.

    At a magic circle firm, the first recruits are trainees and most associates were trainees at the firm. The training contract system is a very good start to a legal career. You rotate across departments for two years and that gives you the time to adjust to life in a corporate law firm and sample various practice areas. Coming straight from an Indian law school, this system is an excellent first step to take. A typical magic circle firms pays approximately GBP 40,000 to trainees and approximately GBP 60,000 to its associates (who qualify after two years of training).

    At most US firms, the first port of entry is a summer associateship at the firm between the second and third year of law school. This is much shorter than a training contract and is premised on the fact that by the time students finish their JDs, they are more polished and ready to start practising law. Because, unlike the LL.B. system in the UK, the JD program is a post-graduate program and law graduates are older and have often had some prior work experience. As a result, US law firms typically don’t recruit outside of the JD circuit and international students find it hard to break into the system directly, especially without a US LL.M. However, once you are able to break in the system, a first year associate at a top New York firm will start at US$160,000.

     

    What is your take on Corporate v. Litigation?

    I believe that practising litigation (as a counsel) in India can be challenging without the support of a mentor. It is difficult to get briefed as a junior counsel without that support and as a result, at a very crucial age in life, you may not have a steady source of income. If you have the financial means and the talent to overcome this barrier, then litigation can be a highly rewarding experience, especially in a place like Bombay where the tradition is for seniors to support juniors and mentor them. The actual day to day work is intellectually stimulating and you are an independent professional, not constantly answerable to a senior.

    Working at a corporate law firm offers you financial stability and can be less daunting to start with because you work as part of a team and are sure to be offered the training and assistance to grow. Also, corporate law often involves problem solving and over time, you can feel like you’ve help build something, whether it’s a company, a power plant or a new product. However, with that stability and sense of accomplishment, comes long, unpredictable hours of a stressful environment.

     

    Life at a corporate law firm can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Life as a junior associate at a corporate law firm is indeed quite hectic and stressful. However, sometimes, it’s important to step back and look at the bigger picture. My wife is a doctor and she always reminds me, if nobody died or suffered physical pain, it’s a good day.

    Playing a sport has always been very important to me – it’s a complete escape from everything else. So, playing basketball on the weekends is almost a religious activity and I rarely let work come in the way of that.

     

    Any advice you’d like to give to young lawyers who hope to follow in your footsteps?

    While in college, it’s important to cultivate an intellectual curiosity and let that drive you. Do what you feel passionate about, stick with it and work hard towards it.

  • Abhilasha Nautiyal, Senior Associate, IPR and Competition Law, Anand & Anand, on LL.M from Harvard and job experience

    Abhilasha Nautiyal, Senior Associate, IPR and Competition Law, Anand & Anand, on LL.M from Harvard and job experience

    Abhilasha Nautiyal graduated from Army Institute of Law, Mohali in 2010. While in law school, during her internship at Anand and Anand, she was offered a job which she accepted and started working there after graduation. Thereafter she went to pursue Masters from Harvard Law School. After coming back to India, she again joined Anand and Anand but this time as a Senior Associate. Currently she practices IP and Competition Law at Anand and Anand.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at AIL
    • LL.M from Harvard
    • Career in Intellectual Property law
    • Work at Anand and Anand

     

    Tell us about your profile and how did you decide to study law?

    I work with Anand and Anand and practice IP and competition law.

    Law was a fortuitous choice, and going to AIL was also a matter of chance – I was preparing for med school when a friend introduced me to the idea of going to law school. Being from an army background, Army Institute of Law seemed like a law school I could realistically get into.

     

    What has been your experience on the NLU and Non-NLU divide?

    Yes, there is some truth in that. Luckily for me, I interned and now work at a firm that doesn’t differentiate amongst its resources on an NLU/Non-NLU divide.

     

    After graduating from AIL, you joined Anand and Anand as an Associate. How did the appointment take place?

    I was offered a job at Anand and Anand during an internship. As an associate, I assisted senior members of the litigation team. The learning curve of a litigating lawyer is steep and there is of course a lot to catch up with in terms of what the law is and how the legal machinery actually functions as opposed to what one thinks of the legal system in law school.

     

    How would you describe your experience while studying Masters from Harvard Law School?

    I always wanted to have a more fulfilling academic experience, hence an LL.M. I have come across people in the profession who feel that an LL.M. has very limited value for a litigating lawyer. In my experience, the LL.M. year opened my mind to diverse ideas, which I believe is a great ‘value addition’ for a lawyer irrespective of the field of law he or she is practicing. The LL.M. year is not just about academics but is a great opportunity for personal growth.

     

    After coming back from Harvard you were offered the position of a Senior Associate at Anand and Anand. How would you say the LL.M affected your career?

    There are several factors involved in the process – time at the firm and ability to handle individual responsibility are examples of criteria the firm may look at. I was directly offered the rank of Senior Associate after my LL.M from Harvard.

    An LL.M., at the very least, does refine ones thinking, which is a great boost. My responsibilities at Anand and Anand have increased over the years. One must bear in mind that foreign education comes at the price and must be prepared to make such an investment.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture at Anand and Anand and the life of a Senior Associate.

    I am happy to be working with people who are as passionate, if not more, about the law. We enjoy our work and team work is our strength. I handle matters in consultation with the partners. My responsibilities include handling day to day requirements of clients, advisory work, appearances in court and taking forward the competition law practice of the firm.

     

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    How did you build up your expertise in IPR? Tell us about your work experience.

    I learnt a lot during internships and on the job. Like I said before, there is a huge gap between what we study in law school and how we actually practice law. It is important to bridge that gap – a headstart in college by focusing on quality internships is very important. The role of an IP lawyer may involve several facets like transactional work, consultancy, prosecution or litigation. The key is to do your job and to do it well. Attention to detail is a quality that can help one go a long way in this profession.

    I most enjoy working on matters at the cusp of IP and competition law. This includes FRAND and compulsory licensing problems. At the risk of sounding clichéd, I feel there is no substitute for hard work (and good strategy!)

    If you are passionate about IP, life will be much simpler as an IP lawyer.

    Mistakes happen – it’s fine as long as you learn and move on. As I have learnt over the years, it important to try because most mistakes can be corrected.

     

    How are internships helpful for a law student? What are the other options available for someone interested in IP?

    Internships are a must. Diligence is well appreciated during internships.

    It’s always helpful to have an idea of the relevant substantive and procedural law. General awareness of burning issues in your field of interest will help.

    Working with start ups, or having your own legal start up, may be a lucrative option in some cases. Alternatively, teaching, clerking with courts, or working for a government agency are other options to explore.

     

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    How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    This is a tough one. My husband is also a lawyer so both of us work long hours. The trick is to take benefit of any break, long or short, that comes our way.

  • Taniya Malik, Ph.D Scholar, Delhi University, on experience of working at IPR Firm Lall, Lahiri & Salhotra, and teaching at ITM Law School

    Taniya Malik, Ph.D Scholar, Delhi University, on experience of working at IPR Firm Lall, Lahiri & Salhotra, and teaching at ITM Law School

    Taniya Malik graduated in law from CLC, DU in 2009. She is an avid researcher and academician in the field of law. She graduated from Lady Shree Ram College before she decided to join CLC, DU to pursue law.

    After her graduation she worked at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra (“LLS”), one of the most prominent IP firms in India for an year. Thereafter she decided to pursue Masters and therefore joined DU again. With Masters, she managed to clear UGC-NET examination. She also had the opportunity to work as an Assistant Professor at ITM Law School before she joined DU where she is currently pursuing Ph.D. in Water Security in India.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at DU
    • Work experience at LLS and ITM Law School
    • Clearing UGC-NET
    • Pursuing Ph.D. in Water Security in India

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    I am an avid researcher and academician in the field of law. Currently I am pursuing Ph.D. on Water Security in India from Faculty of Law, University of Delhi. Besides this I have taught law subjects at the Faculty of Law, University of Delhi and ITM University, Gurgaon.

     

    How did you gravitate towards Law? Tell us about your college life at CLC, DU. What all activities did you partake in?

    Honestly, Law was a backup option. In fact after I finished with my graduation at LSR, DU, I was still quite confused as to my future plans. I had zeroed on Law but I was still figuring out things and buying more time to make up final plans. But initial few classes at CLC made me realize that somehow through all this confusion, I had found my true calling. Since those days, I have never had a second thought about my profession.

    Studying at CLC in itself was an eye opening experience. I had just graduated from LSR, a girls’ college and till then I had been accustomed to a much protected environment. CLC changed all that and made me see some hard realities face to face. I got a chance to interact with people from very diverse backgrounds but most importantly I think it was the study of law that brought about a lot of change in my personality. I started becoming more upfront and confident. As far as activities at law school were concerned, I used to participate in various subject specific discussion committees. I also regularly used to attend talks and seminars held at CLC and was an active member of the Placement Committee. I was also got opportunities to work as research associate under few of my professors at CLC.

     

    Soon after graduation, you started working at Lall, Lahiri and Salhotra as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? What kind of responsibilities you were entrusted with?

    Immediately after completion of my LL.B., I got an excellent opportunity to work as Legal Associate at LLS (Lall, Lahiri & Salhotra), a Gurgaon based IPR law firm. It was a regular appointment wherein I had sent across my CV and sat through few interview rounds. I worked in the Trademarks Prosecution department of LLS wherein I was involved with the filing for registering of trademarks applications and attending hearings at Trademarks Registry, New Delhi. It was definitely a good experience for a beginner in the field of IPR

     

    After having worked at LLS for almost one year, you joined Faculty of Law, Delhi University to pursue LL.M. What made you to prefer Masters over job? Did you consider going abroad?

    While spending one year at LLS, I had developed a lot of fascination for higher studies in Law as I constantly used to feel that my studies in law were still incomplete. I discussed it with my parents and they also encouraged me to pursue LL.M. Additionally I wanted to explore judicial services as a career option and for these purposes I decided to undertake full time study of Law. As far as pursuing LL.M from foreign universities is concerned, the thought didn’t inspire me much in those days and infact I didn’t try any university abroad. I was happy with pursuing my LL.M from DU.

     

    Tell us about the course structure and specialization of Master of Laws at CLC, DU? What was your topic of dissertation for LL.M?

    LL.M at DU is a full time, two year course and the subjects of specialization can be chosen by the candidate himself. My subjects of specialization centred on Constitutional Law and International Law. My LL.M dissertation topic was on the legal regulation of Money Laundering in India. The controversy respecting Black Money was current in those days and this encouraged me to take up a detailed study on this subject.

     

    You have publications in various renowned journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    So far as publications are concerned, I would suggest that the authors must pick up topics that are current. I think that gives a better success rate in publications. Also I would suggest that the authors must attempt empirical study on legal topics as opposed to a doctrinal one. An empirical study of legal issues is more precise and provides more credibility to the research.

     

    How did publishing affect your legal career? Apart from academia, does it help one to secure jobs at all?

    Publications are of tremendous importance so far as academics is concerned. Infact one excellent research article has the potential to shape your entire career in academics. Apart from academia, although prima facie it seems that publications are not of much importance, but in fact they do. If legal professional wants to stand out in his field, then he must write on his area of expertise. Writing in itself is a profound activity and many of your own concepts about a particular legal topic will become clear once you start writing about it.

     

    You have also qualified UGC NET Exam. Could you please tell our reader about the exam and how did you prepare for it?

    UGC NET exam is a national level eligibility test for college level teachers, which is conducted by UGC twice a year. To secure a regular appointment at University level for the role of Assistant Professor, every candidate must clear the NET exam of the concerned subject. Fortunately I did not have to prepare specifically for NET as the syllabus comprised of all the subjects of law that I had already studied in LL.B and LL.M. I basically revised all these subjects two months before the exam and by God’s grace I was successful.

     

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    You also had the opportunity to work as an Assistant Professor at ITM University, Gurgaon and at Faculty of Law, Delhi University. How did your appointment take place? Please describe your experience?

    My appointment at ITM University as Assistant Professor was a regular appointment. There was an advertisement by the University and I applied. It was followed by few rounds of interviews before the final selection. I was asked to teach Constitutional Law to the students of third and fourth years. Since it was my first teaching assignment, so I found it a bit challenging but in totality it was a great learning experience for me. Whenever my classes went exceptionally well, I always felt so calm and satisfied and that feeling can have no other parallel in the world. My stay at ITM University was followed by another teaching assignment at Faculty of Law, University of Delhi. I taught the subject of Wealth Tax at Law Centre – I. This in itself was a very overwhelming experience for me initially as I was teaching at the same University where I passed out from. I always used to put myself in the shoes of my students. In retrospect, I think I understood by students at DU better but may be this feeling is just psychological.

     

    Tell us about your teaching methodology? What subjects did you teach there?

    So far as teaching methodology is concerned, I try my best to keep the concepts of law simple for my students. I always preferred my classes to be interactive rather than a mere lecture discourse. Also I have always paid a lot of stress in case law analysis because that is what ultimately consolidates students’ understanding. So far I have had the opportunity to teach Constitutional Law and Wealth Tax.

     

    What made you to pursue Ph.D.? What is your topic of research for Ph.D.? What was your motivation behind the selection of that topic?

    When I cleared my UGC NET, I was simultaneously awarded a Junior Research Fellowship by UGC to pursue Ph.D. in Law. I realized it was a golden opportunity for me to solely dedicate myself for research in law in my decided field. Ph.D. today is essential if you wish to thrive in academics. Additionally, I was lucky enough to obtain my registration in Ph.D. at Delhi University in my area of interest i.e. Water Law. Water is basic for human survival, yet so far as India’s water resource management is concerned; we still have a lot of legal and policy gaps. Groundwater overexploitation, among other factors and the threat posed by climate change in near future will seriously endanger India’s Water Security. My research is an attempt to identify these legal issues and suggest proper remedies so that India’s water future is secure.

     

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    Going forward, how do you expect the Ph.D. experience to influence your career?

    I obviously wish to be an accomplished academician and researcher in the field of law. I hope that through my Ph.D. thesis, I am constructively able to contribute so far as the understanding of water law in India is concerned. Further I hope that I come across some good opportunities where I can work with accomplished individuals and organizations in this field. I hope that this Ph.D. thesis will place me amongst the good researchers in the field of Water Law.

     

    What would be your message to law students reading this interview?

    To all the students of law, I wish, first of all, to congratulate them for the career path they have chosen. You are the leaders of tomorrow and within yourselves lie the potentials to positively impact this country in a way that no other profession can.

    Studying law in itself is a very empowering experience and please make most of it. Now unlike other professions, law has a higher gestation period and it will take you sometime to realize your true interest. So in the process, have patience and don’t get disheartened. Success will surely come with hard work and perseverance. Another important thing is to keep yourself updated and acquire excellent communication skills, as this field is very competitive if you wish to carve a niche for yourselves. Further if the circumstances are favourable, do go for higher studies in law. Although LL.B is sufficient to do well in this field but higher studies in law will open up your mental faculties and give you an very analytical and holistic approach towards law. I wish you all the best.

  • Rimali Batra, Associate, Regulatory and Policy team, Trilegal, on pursuing BCL from Oxford, life at law school and varied work experience

    Rimali Batra, Associate, Regulatory and Policy team, Trilegal, on pursuing BCL from Oxford, life at law school and varied work experience

    Rimali Batra graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2010. After graduation, she worked at ICICI Bank’s Corporate Banking and Litigation team in New Delhi for a year. Thereafter, she pursued a BCL degree at the University of Oxford. After completing BCL, she joined Jindal Global Law School as a Research Associate. She subsequently accepted a job offer from J Sagar Associate’s Regulatory and Policy team and after continuing there for a while she went on to join her present office at the Regulatory team of Trilegal.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Reading BCL at Oxford and tips on scholarships
    • Being a Research Associate at JGLS
    • Working at JSA and moving over to Trilegal

     

    Most of readers are budding and enthusiastic lawyers, how would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    I was born and raised in Delhi. I did my schooling from Montfort Senior Secondary School located in Ashok Vihar, New Delhi. Thereafter I went to ILS Law College, Pune to do my graduation in Law. After ILS Law College, I worked with ICICI Bank’s Corporate Banking and Litigation team in New Delhi. A year and three months later, I went to University of Oxford to read law. After BCL, I joined Jindal Law School, Sonipat as a research associate and worked there for three semesters. During the second half of 2014, I joined J Sagar Associate’s Regulatory and Policy team and worked on matters concerning power (Electricity Act, 2003). I was with Mr. Amit Kapur’s team in JSA for a year and have now moved to Mr. Sitesh Mukherjee’s Regulatory team in Trilegal. I have been at Trilegal for five months now. That’s been my journey thus far.

     

    You have had many interesting career switches from starting out as a banking lawyer then being a Research Associate at JGLS to your current profile at Trilegal. What all do you consider before taking these decisions?

    One is of course bound to be surprised at the changing courses of my career paths but then it was all a part of the plan, which I hope the readers will see as this interview answers unfold. All decisions that I have made till date connect, and connect wonderfully.

    rimali-batra-2I am a curious individual and don’t shy from taking risks. I have always been experimental in nature and challenges attract me and hold me. Call it my weakness, call it my strength. I believe that I perform well when I multi-task (It’s like enjoying the main course with some side dishes). That is how it has been since school days. For instance, in school I did not just study hard and well, but also trained myself to be a good basketball player (played national and international tournaments), a praiseworthy debater (both at the inter-school level and state level), a leader (school head girl) and a decent quizzer (inter-school level). Similarly in College, I did not settle for just being among the top 10 rank holder for all five years in the Pune University (ILS was one among the 20 odd colleges affiliated to the Pune University), but also represented ILS at various national and international level moot competitions, elocutions and paper presentations. At Oxford too, I read the BCL alongside playing basketball for the University of Oxford. And now whenever I have time and I am not working, I am doing either of the following – pro-bono advisory on energy laws and medical law and ethics, reading books, stock trading / following the market, writing and publishing stories or on issues of law that interest me, teaching English to underprivileged kids at home on weekends, part-time teaching at law schools or travelling.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family or in close proximity?

    A little about my family: There are no lawyers in my family (or in extended family for that matter). My father hailed from Sonipat and my mother came to India in my Nani’s womb from Pakistan. My father was a businessmen and my mother assisted him in his business. He was and is my role model. He had no basic formal education and left school in class VI to pursue his dream of setting up a business. My mother was a national level table-tennis player and a B.Com graduate from University of Delhi.

    My elder sister, who is a gold medallist, is a Human Resources manager with a renowned company in New Delhi and my younger brother, who is also a gold medallist in B.Com (H) from University of Delhi is running his own business and takes care of dad’s business. I think I inherited my mother’s sports skills and reading habits and my father’s experimental, risk bearing and helping nature. I believed that a little confusion and nervousness is always good but fear is destructive, and therefore I aim at balancing my fears and my weaknesses with my confidence and strengths, as I move forward. I also leave achievements behind and look at them as a thing of the past and aspire to achieve a little more as days go by. So, in a nut-shell, law and basketball are my passion and I am a learner and observer at heart.

     

    Why did you decide to be a lawyer? How was your law school experience at ILS, Pune?

    As far as my memory goes, I sealed the decision of being a lawyer in Class Xth – even before I decided whether to take commerce or science. My decision was based on an aptitude test that was conducted in school moral science class. Thereafter I started adding biographies of famous lawyers to my reading rack alongside the already placed biographies of basketball players. I also read a lot of John Grisham. That marked the beginning. In class XII, I joined LST for preparation. I did not fill any other forms (B.Com, Eco (H) etc) but gave entrance tests for N-Schools. At one point in time, when I did not get through Symbiosis, I almost lost hope for making it to any other N-School, but then when I made it NALSAR, I regained my strength. I also made it to ILS on merit and on sports quota. Now, the decision there was simple, but I got swayed by the India Today ranking and picked ILS over NALSAR, as the ranking placed ILS at number 1 in 2005.

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    ILS for me was a place of opportunities. Located in the heart of the city and walking distance from Symbiosis, ASCL, Ferguson College, FTII and Gokhale Institute of Political Science and Economics, it offered a vibrant student crowd and a bundle of opportunities. My learning was not limited to the classrooms of ILS. I participated in moots that enlarged my frame of learning, pursued diplomas in subjects that were not taught as a part of the academic curriculum and interned with NGO’s/human rights organisations in Pune. During college, I successfully completed diplomas in International Arbitration, Cyber Laws, International Business Laws, Securities Laws and Medical Law and Criminology. I was one of the speakers in the team that represented University of Pune at University of Oxford in the quarter-final rounds of the Oxford IPR Moot Competition, 2009. My first publication was on ‘domestic violence’ in the college journal (in 2007), followed by a piece on ‘separation of powers’ in the Ambedkar Law School journal (2009). During college, I also participated in cultural events like poetry writing and recitation, signing and painting. And of course I continued to play Basketball at the Deccan Gymkhana, since our college did not have a functional basketball court. I made some great friends at ILS. Overall, I believe I was able to paint my canvas with so many colours because I was in a college that gave me so much time and space to explore and go looking for opportunities, if they refuse to come to you.

     

    When people say “Law school”, they look no further than the National Law Universities. As a graduate of ILS, Pune have you faced any such bias? What would be your advice to students in ILS?

    I think the trends are changing a bit. Especially because of so many law colleges mushrooming across the country. ILS has a legacy of being one of the oldest institutions imparting legal knowledge. What ILS lacks is professional training. Meeting my counterparts from N-Schools, always encouraged me to imbibe in me the skills required to think, talk and approach life like a professional. Bias does exit but not all of us have to face it. ILS has a reputation for producing some good litigators however has not earned the same reputation in the corporate world, thereby making it difficult for kids in ILS to crack competitive corporate jobs. I recall an incident during my first job where a senior of my team, while praising my work, introduced me to be from NLS. On my prompting, he corrected himself and toned up his praises even more (considering he was surprised!). I would advise students from ILS to do additional courses and good internships because only studying law at ILS and getting a degree is not going to be enough.

    My advice to students of ILS would be two-fold

    (a) focus on academics in order to score well. Do not consider classroom teaching the end all of academics, that’s just the starting point; and

    (b) Make the most of the time at hand. Involve yourself in activities/course or additional degree’s that interest you. ILS makes space and time for you to incorporate that in your schedule. Most importantly, do both with the sole objective of learning.

    Students can consider requesting administration to take notice of events, moots and competitions that interest them and be rest assured the college will do its part. Student may also invite luminaries in the legal fraternity for lectures and seminars. Basically, what a student in ILS needs is the ‘instinct to initiate’ and ‘go towards opportunities’.

     

    Please describe the internships that you did in college.

    For internships, I always chose New Delhi, because this is where home was and logistics were easy to manage. My first internship was in the District Courts of Delhi where I read and researched on matters of criminal law and property related disputes. Thereafter, I did my second internship in Delhi High Court where I worked on matters on the original as well as the appellate side on various subjects. In my third year I did internships with Senior Advocates of Supreme Court. I then did an internship with litigation teams of two law firms and my final internship was with the Law Commission of India where I wrote a thesis (which retired into a book) on Constitutional validity of Medical Termination in India. I planned my internships and explored possible avenues for a lawyer in order to better understand my calling. By the end of five years, I was sure of being a litigator (at the least) not sure of the subject area that interests me.

     

    You worked as a Legal Manager at ICICI Bank. How does a typical day at ICICI work out? What were your main tasks and what responsibility did you undertake?

    ICICI Bank was my first employer. I was placed through college. I was based out of the Delhi office (I asked for Delhi as my location during my interview). I worked in no specific vertical, but was primarily doing litigation for/against the Bank. Anything and everything was a part of my profile. On a day I would be doing ECB lending, security creations and on another I would be researching and preparing written submissions for matters pending in the consumer forum or the Supreme Court and on yet another day I would be doing retail banking advisory. Having such a profile made it interesting to work in ICICI. I worked there for a year and a half, before I decided to do a masters.

     

    How did your appointment take place at ICICI Bank? What kinds of questions were asked at your interview for ICICI bank?

    ICICI follows a three step procedure, shortlisting on the basis of CV’s, followed by a Group Discussion and finally a personal interview. The Group Discussion revolves around a hypothetical problem relating to law of contracts and consumer protection. The personal interview is primarily based on the resume and a few HR based questions.

     

    Please tell us about your decision to do an LL.M and how you went about choosing the program and university.

    I decided to pursue my masters from Oxford ever since I visited the University in 2009 for an IPR Moot Competition. On my return, I pursued it like a dream. The advantages of doing a BCL are:

    (a) it offers the students to choose a suitable combination of subjects, based on their preferences as opposed to a custom-made LLM course. So, even though I read only four subjects as part of the BCL but at the same time the rigorous workload and timelines gave me the advantage of specialising in four subjects at one time,

    (b) Oxford targets on strengthening reading, breaking down complex material and articulating the same in form of legal writings/answers/tutorials. They say, don’t study BCL, you read for BCL.

     

    What do you think clicked in your favour during the selection process for Oxford? What are the scholarships you had applied for?

    I can’t answer this question with certainty. It has to be a combination of my academic performance in ILS, my statement of purpose and the write-up. Also, the fact that I assured my willingness to attend the course and pay for it, in case I did not get scholarships from Oxford, could have boosted my application. However, I did say that I will not attend if I had no scholarships at all. Other than that, achievements mentioned on my CV (like basketball, moots, diplomas etc.), my statement of purpose and my write-up may have added a little value.

     

    How do you think a law student can build up his profile to get through to top-notch universities like Oxford?

    It’s important to have a strong academic score. A rank in the law school adds value to the application. Apart from that, a student should be able to demonstrate inclination for engaging in theoretical and policy aspects of law. It is also advisable for students to have publications on their side. I remember interacting with the Dean of the University and inter alia, discussing the approach adopted by the University in considering applications from Indian law students. He talked about the law college’s ranking also being a relevant factor, apart from the academic achievements of the student.

     

    What was your area of study during your masters at Oxford? How was the academic pressure like and did you find time to engage yourself in other activities?

    I read Principles of Financial Regulations, Corporate Laws, Medical Law and Ethics and Philosophical Foundations of Common Law. The courses were rigorous and the readings ranged from being easy to intense and complex. However, I made time to be a part of the Oxford University Girl Basketball team after being shortlisted at the trials conducted at the beginning of the course. I played 4 or 5 inter-university matches and also participated in the legendry ‘Varsity Tournament’ played between Oxford and Cambridge every year.

     

    Please tell us about the scholarships you applied to and the procedure for each.

    I applied for all possible scholarships I stumbled upon during my research. I started looking for scholarships before making my application. I followed this website -governmentofindiascholarship.com. I specifically applied for Rhodes, Common Wealth Scholarship, KC Mahindra Trust, Jain Trust, Ox-Cam among others. I was awarded the KC Mahindra Trust Scholarship and the Ox-Cam Scholarships. The application procedure is a little detailed as the students need to prepare independent SOP for each and demonstrate availability of the balance funds (in case where the scholarship does not cover for everything).

    The interview rounds for KC Mahindra and Ox-Cam is fairly simple and questions are primarily targeted at (a) ‘Why oxford?’ and (b) ‘What after masters?’

    Additionally, I would suggest students to ask their employers or seniors they have worked with for financial assistance as some firms, seniors or employers are willing to offer funds with or without a promise from the student to come back and work with the said employer or senior.

     

    Please describe your experience at Oxford. What were the classes and professors like?

    Oxford was a scintillating experience for me. Especially, reading philosophy at Oxford gave me a deeper understanding of law, legal principles and concepts. Oxford has seminars (classroom teaching) which requires students to read before walking in. For my corporate law class I joined a group that was made by students themselves to discuss seminar questions before the seminar and help prepare better for exams.

    At Oxford I was exposed to a system that takes its readings very seriously. As a Masters student, we were required to not just read hundreds of pages every week, but, to also reflect on them during our seminars. I enjoyed this practice very much and it has allowed me to hone my writing skills in the process. A typical reading list will have at least 8-10 important readings (combination of articles, case laws and policy paper series from different jurisdictions, but primarily UK and US). Professors, at best, assist as students deliberate and discuss a topic. One more thing which I found particularly interesting was the presence of an economics, finance and corporate law professor at the same time during seminars for one of my courses, namely, principles of financial regulation.

    The tutorial system is quite unique. There are 4 tutorials for each subject and are spread over three semesters followed by a three hours written exam at the end of the course. I found the tutorials challenging but refreshing as they helped me assess my performance and understanding of the subject alongside attending seminars. They also helped me hone my skills of articulating my thoughts and understanding of the subject.

     

    You switched to a pure research based career after coming from Oxford. How did this change take place? How did you get to associate yourself with Jindal Global Law School?

    Academics is very close to my heart and still is. For as long as I can remember, teaching and educating has always fascinated me. When at Oxford, I heard about Jindal Law School and its dean, Dr. (Mr.) C. Raj Kumar who happens to be an alumnus of Oxford. I was given an opportunity to work as a Research Associate and lecture two courses ‘Property Laws’ and ‘Corporate Laws’. Honestly, one may see it as a switch in careers, but for me, academics fits in very well for an aspiring lawyer, especially after a masters. I also felt a dire need to re-apply and re-read my subjects, from the Indian law perspective – after I finished my masters.

    Though I chose to be a litigator, I haven’t lost touch with teaching and academics (and hopefully never will). I have conducted seminars and lectured at various law schools in India, ever since I left Jindal. I am a visiting faculty with Symbiosis Law School, Noida and often visit ILS Law College for conducting week long courses, as and when time permits.

     

    You had worked with Jyoti Sagar Associates and you are now working with Trilegal. Why this switch?

    After two very fruitful and enriching years at Jindal Law School, I decide to do join regulatory litigation. I was with JSA for a year and have been with Trilegal for 5 months now and having been working on laws in the energy sector, especially the power sector. With not much precedent in the sector, the practice is demanding and engaging.

     

    How is being a research associate or a legal manager at bank different from working at a top – notch law firm? Does the work load increase, how have you managed this transformation?

    When I was in ICICI, I assisted in consumer dispute litigations for/against the bank on subjects involving ‘corporate laws’, ‘banking laws and regulations’. When at Oxford I read ‘corporate law’ and ‘financial regulations’. When at Jindal, I taught ‘corporate laws and financial regulations’. When at JSA, I put together the knowledge and experience acquired from ‘corporate laws’, ‘regulations’ and ‘litigation’; and worked hard in acquiring sector specific knowledge. Electricity/Power sector is a super-niche sector and I find it thrilling and challenging. My work at JSA was very extensive and intense. At Trilegal, I continue working on matters in the power sector with the same intensity and I enjoy it immensely.

     

    How has the journey been so far? What are your long term goals?

    For me my journey that has been the best part. The people I met, places I visited, life experiences I picked on the way, all add to me being who I am today. For today and tomorrow, I am a litigator, learner and an observer and I aspire to be perfect at what I do.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who wants to excel in the legal profession?

    Let me quote Abraham Lincoln’s message “If you are resolutely determined to make a lawyer of yourself, the thing is more than half done already.” I echo.

    When in law school, plan a little about your future. Immerse yourself in travel, cultural exchange, sports, parties and meaningful conversations, as much as possible. Don’t let your degree define your career limits. Don’t forget to explore and experiment. Take risks sometime, it adds a bitter-sweet flavour to your becoming a lawyer. If you do, then accept your failures as much as your cherish your victories.

    And most importantly, keep your imagination alive.

  • Anirudh Rao, Legal Counsel, Infosys London, on LL.M from GWU and job at the World Bank

    Anirudh Rao, Legal Counsel, Infosys London, on LL.M from GWU and job at the World Bank

    Anirudh Rao is a London-based Legal Counsel for Infosys Limited. He graduated from University Law College, Bangalore in 2009. Thereafter he pursued an LL.M from The George Washington University Law School, Washington, DC. He joined the World Bank Group as an Associate before shifting to his current job. In this interview he talks about:

    • LL.M from George Washington University
    • Tips on SoP, scholarships, interviews with foreign law firms/companies
    • Working at World Bank Group and Infosys, London

     

    Our readers are mostly lawyers and law students, how would you introduce yourself?

    I am Anirudh Rao, a London based Legal Counsel for Infosys Limited. Prior to joining Infosys, I worked for the World Bank Group as an Associate in Washington, DC. I graduated from The George Washington University Law School, Washington, DC in 2010 and University Law College, Bangalore University in 2009.

     

    What motivated you to gravitate towards law, as a discipline and a career?

    I was keen on doing something that involved the right mix of problem-solving, analysis and creative thinking. Although it did flutter the dovecotes, the one thing I knew for sure was that I did not want to touch math with a bargepole! Having been driven towards humanities from my high school years, pursuing a degree in law therefore seemed to be a natural progression as a career choice for me.

     

    Please tell us about your time at University Law College. What experiences during these five years would you think particularly helped you shape as a law professional?

    I attended University Law College (ULC) from 2004 to 2009. One of the key advantages I felt about attending ULC was that it allowed me adequate time to participate in moot court competitions, contribute to law journals and gain practical knowledge through internships. At the end of each semester during the course of my degree I interned at both law firms and companies, and during the year I was able to leverage my research skills to write papers that eventually got published in both print and online law journals. It was these experiences that helped bring a lot of perspective in to what I wanted to do as well as shape my career as a lawyer.

     

    What was the decisive factor that prompted you to choose George Washington University Law School from the plethora of options available? Did you always have higher studies in your mind? If not, what motivated you to go in for the same?

    I always wanted to be able to savour the experience of being an integral part of a multi-cultural, ethnic and linguistic class of creative and persevering minds from around the world sharing more than just the need for scholarly advancement.

    Washington, DC being the seat of power of the US government and major international organisations is also a cosmopolitan center for international commerce and business. I felt being in DC and attending GWU located in the heart of DC would put me at a distinct advantage to expand my professional network. I was also awarded the Thomas Buergenthal Scholarship on the basis of academic merit which covered my tuition for a semester.

     

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    Would you suggest having a brief work experience before applying for LL.M.?

    I had no work experience when I went to pursue an LL.M. Personally, I have no regrets looking back at my decision because it did not impede my career progression. However, I also recognise that having some work experience certainly helps in building perspective on taking a decision regarding the preferred area of study and shaping one’s career path.

     

    How did you structure your SoP? Please share some tips for a successful application. What according to you is a good profile for securing scholarships & funding?

    I don’t think I was alone in writing the first draft of my SoP and feeling like I got it wrong. A law school receives hundreds of applications and the evaluators are tasked with the arduous responsibility of reading all of them. What one needs to avoid is stating the obvious, being extraneous or generally lacklustre. A strong opening paragraph will keep the evaluator’s interest to read the rest of the SoP with a positive mindset.

    With regards to scholarships and funding, I feel that having the right mix of consistent academic performance with moot court achievements, publications and internship experience will be able to propel applications further. Highly ranked universities look for more of well rounded CVs; highlighting any outstanding sporting achievements, social volunteering and/or any other stellar achievements goes a long way in securing coveted seats and hopefully scholarships to go with it.

     

    Please tell us about your time at GWU. Was it difficult for you to adjust to a US based education system? What differences did you find in the educations system of India and US?

    GWU Law School was a fantastic experience. The faculty ranged from a former judge in the International Court of Justice, a former Register of Copyrights to subject matter experts who have testified before the US Congress. My campus life ranged from attending socials, intramural and intercollegiate sports, live music concerts and town hall meetings. My fellow students were from 30+ different countries around the globe; people ranging from former judges to a South Korean guard who previously manned the De-Militarized Zone between the two Koreas. It was a perfect opportunity to make lasting friendships in the legal fraternity across the globe.

    The LL.M program at GW is designed to allow international students to settle into the US learning system through specific coursework and breakout sessions; as such, it was not difficult to adapt to the changed circumstances. I was also fortunate to have great professor-mentors.

    Education systems in India and US are as different as chalk and cheese. As one would expect, classes were interactive rather than lecture based which meant one would have to go prepared to class. The culmination of the course at the end of the semester did not always end up in taking a routine exam to regurgitate what one had memorised through the past months. We had a repertoire of assessments including presentations, research paper submissions and theses. Students were also graded on the quality of interactions in class through the semester.

     

    How did your induction into the World Bank Group as an Associate take place? Were there any interviews or selection processes?

    The World Bank is located next to GWU Law School in Washington, DC. In fact, I took classes where I would look out the window and dream about crossing the street and working there after graduating! The US economy hadn’t fully recovered from the recession in 2010, jobs were few and far between; being based in DC certainly played a major role in securing a job at the World Bank. I would show up at World Bank hosted events and spent considerable time and effort networking with officials and engaging in conversation about their work while expressing my willingness to collaborate with them in their projects.

    Initially I was offered a short term contract. I continued to network which eventually led me to the Head of Operations and Business Strategy at the Global Environment Facility (GEF) who requested me to apply for an advertised posting through the World Bank’s job portal. Few weeks later I was called for a formal interview that was lead by a panel of four. I was asked questions about my background, competencies and how I would be a fit to the role. I came out feeling positive about my answers, a few days later, I got an email from then offering me a full-time staff position. My time there was exceptional, one experience that stands out for me was a project mission to Liberia and travelling across the country to pristine Lake Piso along the border with Sierra Leone to oversee a land degradation project.

     

    Currently you work as a Legal Counsel at Infosys, London, UK. Which events led to your induction into Infosys, London? How did your appointment take place?

    I was introduced to the then General Counsel of Infosys, through a friend, whom I later met at a World Bank hosted event in Washington, DC. I was looking to transition to the private sector and we discussed briefly about my interest in a contracts and commercial transactional role that Infosys was looking to fill. I wanted to have the benefit of a multi-jurisdictional profile and felt that crossing the Atlantic over to London would exemplify a vibrant work experience. After a round of interviews in Bangalore and working there for a year, London has been home to me and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

     

    What does your current work profile at Infosys consists of? What is a typical workday like? Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern?

    My profile is that of a commercial transactions counsel with a responsibility to lead negotiations, draft and review contracts for the provision of IT services and deliverables. I work with a vast array of customers both in the UK and in continental Europe across industries including but not limited to finance, retail, energy and utilities and manufacturing.

    A typical work day includes liaising with internal teams, negotiations with clients and assisting the business with both contracts and compliance related legal support.

    Everyday brings with it a new set of challenges and that is the way it should be to keep oneself intellectually stimulated.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture in UK. Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of UK and USA?

    Both the UK and the US in general are very accepting and cosmopolitan societies to expatriates. I felt that differences between the UK and US’s working culture revolves around communication styles, sense of humour and emotional expressiveness. Especially while working in a client facing role as a lawyer where one gets the opportunity to work with people across cultures, I think it is critical to pay attention to one’s surroundings and take ample time to reflect on other people’s behaviour as well as one’s own.

     

    Can you give us advice on applications and interviews, especially with foreign law firms/companies?

    When applying to foreign companies and organisations, students are competing against local graduates who by no means are in short supply both in terms of quantity and talent. It is especially crucial to stand out and exceed expectations. The humble resume is expected to tell a student’s story in one or two pages and may be able to open the first door. One can benefit from getting their resumes peer reviewed for substance and consistency. Interviews can be daunting, however, one must manifest hunger, drive and confidence to convince why they are the right fit for the job.

     

    Any plans to come back to India?

    No fixed plans yet. There is an excitement in playing it by the ear. But who knows what the future holds!

     

    Aside from work, we understand that you are a running enthusiast, can you tell us more?

    Running gives me a nonpareil high and is also a stress buster. I started running long distance as a student and haven’t looked back since. I run both for pleasure and competitively. The two personal triumphs that stand out for me are the Auroville Half Marathon in Pondicherry in 2014 where I finished in the top 10% with about 500 runners competing and the Coorg Escapade half marathon also in 2014 where the relay team that I led finished third overall. The former was a trail run in the wilderness starting before sunrise in low visibility and the latter was a challenging high gradient uphill trail run in a tea estate setting with twists and turns across waterfalls, streams and green pastures.

     

    What are the three activities on a scale of priority, you would recommend?

    It is important for students to carve out an individualistic identity. At the same time, one should not forget to enjoy one’s time as a student. Personally, I benefited greatly from the following activities:

    1. internships
    2. law review publications and
    3. moot courts.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    In the words of Muhammad Ali “He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life”. Getting cocooned in a comfort zone is always easy but getting off the beaten track and persevering will always pay off, sooner or later.

  • Amit Sachdeva, Associate E&Y, USA, on double-LL.M from LSE and NYU and being a noted tax practitioner

    Amit Sachdeva, Associate E&Y, USA, on double-LL.M from LSE and NYU and being a noted tax practitioner

    Amit Sachdeva completed his BA.LLB from GGSIPU after which he went on to pursue an LL.M in Corporate and Commercial Laws. On the successful completion of his degree he worked with Vaish Associates. Thereafter, he pursued his second LL.M from NYU. At present he works an associate at Ernst & Young, US.

    His two most cherished achievements are: successfully taking the Diploma in Private international Law from the Hague Academy of International Law – one of the youngest to do so since 1950 and one of the four in India to have it; and getting recognised in Legal500.com and in Tax Directors’ Handbook as an “up-and-coming lawyer who specializes in tax litigation”.

    In this interview with Amit, he talks about:

    • Completing his bachelors in law from GGSIPU.
    • Being a part of the LSE curriculum as an LL.M student.
    • His working days at Vaish Associates.
    • His Diploma in Private international Law from the Hague Academy of International Law – one of the youngest to do so since 1950 and one of the four in India to have it.
    • His experience of studying at NYU, from where he did his second LL.M.
    • Working at Ernst & Young Associates, USA at present.

     

    Say Hi! to our readers!

    Hello! I am Amit Sachdeva. I was born and brought up in Faridabad, a suburb of New Delhi. Currently, I work as an M&A Tax attorney at Ernst & Young US. I am an alumnus of GGSIPU, LSE and NYU.

     

    What motivated you to gravitate towards law, as a discipline and a career? Why did you decide to study law at GGSIPU?

    Law for me was a natural career choice. My father, Mr. Madan Lal Sachdeva, was an advocate. I idealize him. I was always inspired by the respect he commanded in the society, by his ability to reason everything and by his natural passion—which was professionally crafted—to defy “aisahi hotahai” (this is how it works) attitude. These early childhood impressions took full shape when I began to realize the difference a lawyer can make to the society.

    While in Class XII all my friends were aspiring to be doctors, engineers and chartered accountants, I wanted to something that was intellectually stimulating, financially rewarding and socially empowering; something that was constant and dynamic at the same time, something that needed patience and excitement simultaneously. Law was like a perfect blend!

    GGSIPU, in 2002, was the only law school in New Delhi that offered a law course straight after high school. I didn’t want to move out of New Delhi—that’s the place we have the Parliament, the Supreme Court and the Ministries. I thought there couldn’t be a better place to study law than in New Delhi. And, as I reflect on it; I don’t disagree.

     

    Please tell us about your time at GGSIPU. What experiences during these five years would you think particularly helped you shape as a law professional?

    GGSIPU School of Law and Legal Studies was a treat. My experience was very fulfilling. The fact that ours was the second batch had its own challenges and fun. The challenge was that we had to steer our own way. And the fun was exactly that. There is no better way of learning than pioneering. Each day was an experience. Classroom discussions, moot court competitions, summer internships, cricket matches, canteen time, all of them had a part to play in how I got shaped. I think GGSIPU was an experience in itself.

     

    You have been an outstanding student throughout your school and college years. It’s not every day that someone achieves an academic laurel in each year of school! Please give us a few actionable tips on managing good grades.

    Well, I think there is no mantra to good grades. Quite honestly, I think while grades aesthetically matter, it is the passion for your work that matters more. If you ask me for a tip, it will be this: try to understand a rule for a lifetime, not commit it to memory for an exam. There is a reason behind why a rule is what it is. If you try following the reason, law school exams are not hard to score on.

     

    Soon after graduation, you went on a full tuition scholarship to London School of Economics and Political Science for an LL.M in Corporate and Commercial Laws. What was the decisive factor that prompted you to choose LSE from amongst the options available?

    As I grew up at law school, I realized the relevance of a fuller education and an international experience to our profession. It was in the early part of the fourth year of law school that I decided to apply for an LL.M. degree. Of the various options, the ones that I was seriously considering were Oxford University and LSE. Although Oxford has an impeccable legal tradition, I decided to join LSE primarily for the very reason I got drawn to GGSIPU five years ago: what better place to study law than the capital city. LSE is in London. Besides, LSE also has, I think, a better reputation for corporate, commercial, and international business laws than Oxford does. Of course, there is an element of subjectivity around it. But that is what I thought. The other reason was that Oxford offered me a partial-scholarship; LSE, a full. I didn’t apply to any law school in the US.

     

    What should one do differently in college if he/she wants to pursue higher studies after graduation? What according to you is a good profile for securing scholarships and funding?

    Following an LL.M straight after school, or spending a little time at work and then pursuing a master’s degree, is really a matter of personal choice. A lot of factors play in, such as availability of finances, family commitments, etc. Having pursued an LL.M directly after school and then another one after some work ex, I would second that work experience does put a lot of things in perspective.

    As far as admissions are concerned, I think finding an admission in a top LL.M program is hard. And, finding a scholarship is harder. I think the trick is to demonstrate two things. First, an all-round personality and, second, a commitment to the field you want to pursue. Participating in moot court competitions, debates, mock parliaments, summer internships, besides good grades and writing articles should go a long way. Publications are often viewed as synonymous with academic excellence and commitment. A handful of international publications and I think you jump the queue of applicants for a place at a top LL.M program. I must however hasten to emphasize that a reviewer spends a few minutes reviewing a case for a scholarship. So, if you get one, thank your stars; if you don’t, there is no reason to be disheartened… the decision may not be a reflection of your potential. There is just no exact science out there.

     

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    Please tell us about your time at LSE. Tell us about the academic pressure, faculty and campus life. What differences did you find between the education systems of India and the U.K.?

    The UK system is as close to the Indian as it can be. An overwhelming majority of our statutes and court decisions are based on or drawn from those of the UK. So, adjustment was not much of an issue. What was however a surprise—a pleasant one of course—was to first-hand experience the level of legal scholarship. I had the opportunity to be a student of some of the most respected scholarsacross the globe. Prof. Paul Davies (author of Gower and Davies, Principles of Company Law), Prof. Trevor Hartley (Private International Law) or Prof. Christopher Greenwood (since appointed as Judge, ICJ), the list is endless; they are scholarship-personified. I think the Indian education system needs two things—sincerity and funding.

     

    Meanwhile, you were also awarded a Diploma in Private International Law from The Hague Academy of International Law. How did you go about achieving this? Please tell us about the procedure to apply and the course.

    Yes, and I was also one of the youngest persons in the world to achieve this feat since the Diploma was incepted in 1950 and one of the only four Indians to hold this Diploma.

    Every year The Hague Academy of International Law organizes a summer school. The school has two sessions: one in Public International Law and the other in Private International Law. The sessions are taught by some of best professors and practitioners in the world. Each session attracts about 300 students. The applications are announced on their official website. Based on the performance of the students, some of the students sit for the Diploma exam. Although there is no cap, roughly about 10 students take the exam each session. There is a written test and then take an extempore oral test on a topic of international law. This is followed by the panel interviewing the student with questions, some related and some unrelated to the assigned topic. At the end, one or sometimes two students are awarded the Diploma.

     

    After coming back to India, you started your career at Vaish Associates. How did your appointment take place? Please walk us through your work profile.

    I joined the Direct Taxes team of Vaish Associates in September 2008. I had emailed the HR there. Vaish was one of the most welcoming law firms I came across. They acknowledged my email—something we don’t see too often. I had two rounds of interviews. After the interview with partner I was extended an offer to join their tax litigation team. I grabbed the opportunity.

    As a member of the tax litigation team, I attended client meetings, drafted petitions and appeals, appeared before tax officers and represented matters before the courts. I had the opportunity to handle work for many of the Fortune500 companies. In my first year, my work was more domestic tax focussed, but as I spent more time with the practice, international tax occupied my plate more and more. My partners often engaged me on assignments that involved intensive research into dense regulations, engagements that required knowledge and understanding of laws other than tax law, and matters that challenged constitutional validity of tax statutes. I handled a large number of writ petitions challenging the validity of reassessment proceedings. In addition, I would write tax opinions for our clients and render other advisory services.

     

    Tell us what did you like the most about your days at Vaish Associates.

    I had some of the best time of my life at Vaish. I worked long hours, made great friends, learnt tax law and partied. Besides, I helped the firm organize conferences, published papers, conducted team trainings, etc. It was a wholesome experience. What I liked the most about the place was the open-door policy. This meant that professionals at all levels, starting from associates and all the way up, had full access to all the partners at all times. Mr. Ajay Vohra, Mr. Rupesh Jain and Mr. Neeraj Jain personally ensured that this work ethic percolated all the way down. Mr. Rupesh Jain continues to be my mentor. I do reach out to him even today for discussions—both at personal and professional levels.

     

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    In 2013, you were noted in Legal500.com and in Tax Directors’ Handbook as an “up-and-coming lawyer who specializes in tax litigation”. How did you feel about it?

    “It must be a misprint!” were the first words that I uttered when a colleague of mine at Vaish Associates came to my desk and broke the news to me. I had no idea about it. There was no application process … no submission … no request from my side. I understand that Legal500 and TDHB undertake an independent survey of the market and clients, and report their findings impartially. Once it sank in that my name was noted, I was overwhelmed. On the lighter side, I continue to believe that it was a misprint! By far, this and The Hague Academy Diploma are two achievements that are closest to my heart.

     

    You were briefly a Visiting Faculty at NLU, Delhi where you taught a semester-long Certificate Course on Direct Taxation. How did you manage to eke out time?

    I have a passion for teaching. I have always wanted to be an adjunct professor. NLU Delhi offers semester long certificate courses. I think these students were some of the most self-motivated ones I have come across. In order to accommodate my professional commitments, my students sometimes sat in classes starting 9 in the evening and going well past midnight. One weekend they travelled all the way from Dwarka to the Vaish office in central Delhi. I think they managed, I did not. All I did was: talk! If any of my former students is reading this interview, I want to say: thank you!

     

    You left your job to pursue a second LL.M. degree., this time at NYU. Considering that you had already earned an LL.M degree, what prompted you for this?

    My first LL.M was in Corporate and Commercial Laws. But, as it turned out I began practicing tax law. So, the primary motivation was to understand the theoretical underpinnings of the rules I invoked so often in practice. I always believed that there is much to learn from the US and the UK systems, and knowing their laws would boost my practice. Besides, I also wanted to develop an international network of professionals working in the same field as I was. So, that led me to apply for another LL.M. I already had an LL.M. from the UK, I decided to cross the Atlantic and try my luck at some US universities. With God’s grace, I was offered an admission with a scholarship I couldn’t turn down. My mother and my elder brother supported my decision to go.

     

    Currently you work as an Associate at Ernst & Young, Houston, USA. Which events led to your induction into EY, USA?

    NYU School of Law makes a significant investment in its careers office. There are a couple of job fairs that NYU organizes. The careers office also invites employers from across the country to the law school to interview NYU students. I applied for a number of job interviews, had call back interviews with a few. EY Houston office had also participated in one such interview program. I had a telephonic interview followed by an on-campus interview, and a round of four interviews during office visit. Shortly after the office visit, I was offered a position. The entire recruitment process spanned over three/four weeks.

     

    What does your current work profile at EY consists of? Share with us a few of the most challenging problems you have faced thus far?

    I work with the M&A Tax team at EY. My practice entails conducting tax due diligence, writing tax memoranda and tax structuring. Typically, a tax DD is like a health check-up from a tax perspective. Tax memoranda are a narrative of what the legal position on an issue is. Tax structuring, which is my favourite, involves informing clients of the different structuring options in which a transaction may be done.

    The complexity of the US tax law is the most challenging part of my work. But, that is also the part I enjoy the most about my practice.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture in USA. How is EY, USA different from an Indian company/firm in terms of their working?

    I think as we brisk walk more into this millennium, our practices, behaviours, languages, cultures, ethics are converging. I don’t see too much of a difference between the work culture in the US and India. My friends and colleagues who work EY India endorse this. My personal experience at Vaish was no different.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Law School is perhaps the best time one can have in a lifetime. Enjoy it to the fullest. At the same time, be mindful of your goals, and of what you want. Also remember that lawyers are never out of work. If the economy is doing well, there is more corporate activity like M&A, IPOs, project finance, etc.; if it slows down we get involved in a different type of legal work like distressed debts, reconstructions, hedging, asset management, etc. The problem is that our education system focuses so heavily on traditional legal courses, and so little on these more modern ones. My suggestion would be that students should focus on these areas too.

  • Ajay Chandru, Associate, Nishith Desai Associates, on LL.M from George Washington Univ and specialising in IPR

    Ajay Chandru, Associate, Nishith Desai Associates, on LL.M from George Washington Univ and specialising in IPR

    Ajay Chandru graduated from GNLU in 2009 with a B.Sc.LL.B. degree. During his days at GNLU, he attended various summer schools including George Washington University Summer Program, Munich, Franklin Pierce Summer Program, Cork, Ireland, Intellectual Property Summer Program, Macau, World Intellectual Property Organization’s Summer program at Bangkok, Thailand. Soon after graduation, he joined Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan as an Associate and worked there for two years. Thereafter, he went on to pursue Masters in IPR law from George Washington University. Currently, he works as an Associate at Nishith Desai Associates.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Summer schools during under-graduation
    • Work experience at LKS
    • LL.M experience at The George Washington University
    • Induction and work at Nisith Desai Associates

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or planned?

    I had taken up Science as my stream in eleventh and twelfth standard. Like all science students I followed the herd and joined coaching classes for IIT. However, I and my parents realised after my coaching class IIT test results, I was definitely not cut out for IIT. My dad then spoke to the director of HR at his company to discuss what will be the most in-demand professionals in the next five to ten years. One of the professionals in demand he said would be corporate lawyers.

    I had no clue at that time what corporate lawyers were. I actually wanted to be a pilot and was keen on going to flying school but I realised while looking at the job market in India for pilots back in 2004 that it was not practical. I then googled for the best law schools in India and then I came across the ever so misleading India Today rankings.

    I also came across Law School Tutorials (“LST”) and started solving the entrance exam papers, I found it very easy as compared to IIT entrance exam papers, so I thought law entrance exam would be pretty easy to crack. I used to solve the law school entrance papers even in my free time because I especially loved the General Knowledge section. My Mom thought I was spending too much time in solving these papers and not focusing on my twelfth exams, so she hid the LST prep material and did not give it to me until two weeks before the law school entrance exam. In conclusion you can say that me being a lawyer was a mix of fate and plan.

     

    Did you take part in moots when at GNLU or indulge in academic legal writing?

    I was never an avid mooter. However, I did take part in a couple of moot courts. I was always focused on Intellectual Property Rights law since the first year of my law school. I never bothered to concentrate on a moot court which was not related to Intellectual Property Law. I think it was in the third year that we first had an internal moot on an Intellectual Property Law issue. I took part in it and actually topped the whole law school in that internal round.

    Looking back, I do feel that I should have taken part in more moot court competitions, especially the international ones because they give you a lot of exposure and you do hone your oral and drafting skills.

    When it came to writing I did end up writing some articles on the subject of Intellectual Property Law. I do think writing academic articles is important. However, it has to be done the right way. The article should contribute or develop the existing legal jurisprudence on a particular subject. Articles should not be written just for the heck of putting that in a resume. It can actually backfire against you. All the big law firms and even companies have started asking for writing samples or published articles for recruitment purposes. It is very easy to identify the quality of the article by briefly reading it on the first go itself. Plus, if you have written an article on a subject, it is presumed your fundamentals on the subject including the leading case laws are within your knowledge off hand.

     

    During your days at GNLU, you attended various summer schools. What was the reason behind pursuing these programs?

    I attended George Washington University Summer Program, Munich, Franklin Pierce Summer Program, Cork, Ireland, Intellectual Property Summer Program, Macau, World Intellectual Property Organization’s Summer program at Bangkok, Thailand. All these Summer Programs were on the subject of Intellectual Property Rights. I pursued these summer programs mostly from an academic standpoint. It also helps from a recruitment point of view as it shows that you have command on the subject.

     

    How do you think such summer schools are beneficial for a law student?

    The method of teaching in these summer programs is different. They are very practical and assignment oriented, which make you think on these subjects. This kind of academic exposure I did not get in GNLU. Further, you tend to meet a lot of people from different countries with the same kind of academic mind set. This exposes you to a different kind of thinking, which results in expanding your cultural and academic horizons.

     

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    Right after graduating, you joined Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan as an Associate where you worked for two years and then went for LL.M. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    I honestly wanted to go for my LL.M right after college. However, I realised it made more sense to go for LL.M after gaining some work experience because I would have a better grasp on the subject by then. This was important, if I wanted to make the most out of my LL.M. Also, work experience gave me a different practical perspective of the subjects I undertook in my LL.M. I ended up taking a lot of practical and very specific interest oriented subjects within Intellectual Property Law and did not undertake a lot of foundation courses on Intellectual Property Law, as I was already familiar with fundamentals on the subject.

     

    Tell us something about your LL.M year at The George Washington University. How did this influence your career?

    It was an exciting and probably one of the best years of my life. I did study a lot because I was genuinely interested in the subjects I undertook. I did also party a lot I have to confess. Plus, the LL.M programmes are structured in such a way that you so many events to party and most of which are actually funded by the Student Bar Associations of the college, this is apart from the partying that you would do with friends.

    I think if you want to pursue LL.M in Intellectual Property Law, George Washington is the best place to study. One, because of its reputation in Intellectual Property Law and second, is because of its location in Washington DC. The Federal Circuit Court (the appellate court for patent matters), USPTO, the US Copyright Office and the Supreme Court are all located in Washington DC. Because of this most law firms and institutions dealing with Intellectual Property have a presence in Washington DC. This gives George Washington unparalleled access to a lot of resources including excellent part time lecturers.

     

    Do you think it makes sense to students to go overseas to study law when they want to work/practice in India?

    Honestly, I don’t think so. If you are thinking of doing an LL.M from overseas just to get a job overseas, it’s a bad idea. You need to have a genuine interest in the subject that you want to focus on. The chances are pretty slim that you will get a job overseas. It might be still possible to get a job overseas but the question is what kind of job you want to do. If you have worked in a law firm in India and worked on high profile litigations and transactions or a law firm in India is giving you that opportunity then would you want to do work for a contract management firm or discovery firm overseas, if you are okay with doing this kind of a job chances are you might ending up getting a job overseas, if you try.

    However, what an LL.M does is irrespective of your job prospects, the exposure that you get in an LL.M when you make friends and hang out with people from different countries is extremely invaluable that can’t be quantified by any amount of money. This exposure makes you so culturally aware and shapes your personality, which is very important in your professional careers.

     

    You have also worked as an intern at Boehmert & Boehmert, Germany. What kind of work did you come across?

    Boehmert & Boehmert, Germany is a law firm specializing in Intellectual Property Law. The kind of work I came across was patent prosecution, trademark related litigation research, European Pharma regulatory research work and trademark prosecution work.

    Working in a German law firm is very different than working in an American or Indian law firm. The working atmosphere was very relaxed. People generally never stayed longer than 6.00 p.m. in the firm. However, people did not waste a single minute while working in the office. The efficiency of the associates, interns, secretaries and paralegals in time management was extremely good.

    The interns in the law firm were treated almost like associates. We had our own cabin and even secretaries assigned to us to help with the backend work and you directly reported to a partner and the work was assigned to you by a partner and not an associate. The responsibility that you are given is also equivalent to an associate. In this way it was completely different than an internship in an Indian law firm.

     

    You are working as an Associate at Nishith Desai Associates. Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein.

    At Nishith Desai Associates (“NDA”) I primarily focus on Patent prosecution, Intellectual Property litigation, Intellectual Property centric transactions, Pharma regulatory litigation, General commercial law litigation and General Commercial Law related documentation.

    At NDA we have 70:20:10 philosophy; wherein you need to spend every year 70 percentage of your time in your core area, 20 percentage of your time in related core area and 10 percentage of your time in an entirely non-related core area. So I do end up doing work, which is not related to Intellectual property law.

    NDA being a research oriented firm, a substantial amount of my time is also spent on drafting research articles and hotlines that get circulated to the NDA external mailing list or get published in national and international publications.

     

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    How do you say one can gain expertise in IPR? What does it take to be a good IPR lawyer?

    The first and foremost thing you need to decide if you want to gain expertise in IP is whether you are genuinely interested in the subject, does it excite you, does it make you want to read more and gain knowledge in the subject. If the answer is yes, then you should decide to gain expertise in the subject. As, a student the best way to again expertise in IP would be to intern with a law firm specializing in IP. I think this is one of the best ways of gaining exposure and experience on the subject and it also increases your chances of recruitment. Another is attending summer programs to gain exposure and to have comparative understanding of the subject, which is very helpful as it gives you a broader perspective on the subject. You should also be abreast with the latest development in the subject area by reading blogs and major case laws on the subject.

    To be a good IP lawyer, you need the same qualities as any other lawyer. However, it does help very much if you have an inclination to understand and better grasp the fundamentals of science especially if you want to do patents. Plus, if you have science degree even if from National Law School such as GNLU you are eligible for giving the Patent Agent Exam in India. Having this qualification is also very helpful, if you want to focus on patents.

     

    Nishith Desai Associates takes on interns as well. What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Interns at NDA generally work across teams. So it is important to have a mindset where you are open to work across subject areas. You should be able to work anywhere, be it in Intellectual Property or corporate or tax or litigation. Dedication to your work, time management, meeting deadlines and consistency in the quality of work are also important. In addition to NDA being a research oriented law firm, we also look for good drafting and analytical thinking skills in a potential recruit. Analytical skills are essential; for example, if you are drafting an article on the latest case law, you need to understand the broader implication of the judgment on the jurisprudence and the industry and your critical analysis of the judgment.

     

    Is there any success mantra that you follow which you would like to share with our readers?

    I think be it any field or any kind of work, according to me, if you need to be successful, dedication, hard work and time management are the most important. You can’t achieve success without possessing any of these qualities.