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  • Shivani Verma, Advocate, Jharkhand High Court, on co-founding Legal Eagle, mentoring law aspirants, and her litigation experience

    Shivani Verma, Advocate, Jharkhand High Court, on co-founding Legal Eagle, mentoring law aspirants, and her litigation experience

    Shivani Verma graduated from Gujarat National Law University, Gandhinagar, in 2011. She has been an Associate with India International Jurists for a year, and is currently an Advocate at the Jharkhand High Court. She is empanelled to represent Canara Bank (Jharkhand), Jharkhand High Court Legal Service Committee, etc. Her area of expertise includes civil and criminal law.

    She is also the co-founder of Legal Eagle, an institute that offers different mentorship programs for Class XI and XII students for various law entrance examinations.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Studying at GNLU
    • Being a co-founder at Legal Eagle
    • Choosing between litigation and corporate law

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself?

    I am a lawyer by profession with almost five years of active litigation experience,  also now involved with the initiative called ‘Legal Eagle’ where we strive to disseminate important information about the field of law as well as mentor students for various law entrance examinations. I belong to the city of Ranchi, Jharkhand and have returned to my hometown to practice law and contribute to the Legal profession and education in my own way.

    When did you decide to take up law as your profession?  

    ‘Degree in law’ is still looked at with some amount of scepticism by people with no background in law, especially in tier-II cities where they are yet to be exposed to the field. It was no different in my case. I am a first generation lawyer and encountered questions like ‘why law?’ though not from within the family, but outside. The idea of doing law came a little late, but did not involve a lot of overthinking. It was in my Senior Secondary that I realised that I wanted to take up Law. A friend of mine told me about the National Law Schools and the interdisciplinary courses being offered at the law Schools. I really liked the course curriculum designed for the National Law Schools in India and decided to go for it. My father belongs to the field of academics and he was very much aware of the new changes taking places in the profession, especially of the concept of National Law Schools in India and the dynamic course curriculum offered by these colleges. Both my parents were very receptive of the idea of me taking up Law.

     

    Tell us a little bit about your life as student of law at GNLU. 

    Although, I think I could have explored more in my law school days, both in terms of academics and co-curriculars, yet the five years of studying law remains one of the best experiences till date. There is a lot one can do in those five years, lots of things to learn and a lot of things to unlearn. For starters, the curriculum is so designed that the students are made part of several assignments in the first few days of the college itself and deadlines are already set. This is the time when one has the least amount of knowledge on any subject of law and no clue where to seek help. You end up approaching seniors, faculty members, batchmates, outsiders, anyone who can help. This whole process of trying to find solutions breaks the ice between peers as well as somehow defines your college life in a nutshell, where you end up working in teams in so many situations, may be at the cultural fest, representing your college team in a moot, or other several such competitions or merely working in the mess committee together with different sets of people every time, the experiences are very rewarding. Law Schools is not just restricted to learning but also developing one’s personality through the innumerable meaningful interactions that one has as student of law.

    I was pretty much interested in everything. I had participated in every inter college moot organised by the college in the five years I studied at GNLU, irrespective whether I made it to the next round or not. I got the opportunity to represent the University as part of the team in a National Moot Court Competition. I had participated in many seminars organised both within and outside college, presenting papers on different topics. I was never a topper, but there was always a degree of healthy competition in the environment, which pushes you to be better. This later also helps in the career.

    Dividing time between academics and co-curricular was not very difficult as everyone around me was doing the same, and doing it so well. I thought people in my batch were an excellent bunch of people, so many of them good at so many things. In a lot of ways, it was inspiring, and still is.

     

    How did you develop an interest in litigation?

    Not any one thing in particular, there were several things. The idea of arguing in a matter always seemed to excite me, also a reason I participated in all the moot court competitions in the university. Some subjects like the constitutional law, contract law interested me a lot. As part of academics, I had heard many legal luminaries addressing on several topics and was always fascinated by the real life anecdotes of handling cases and how interpretation of law makes huge impacts in the society we live in. My internship experiences made a lot of things clear to me, also my first job in a law firm where I got the first practical experience of working as a lawyer. This was the time I had decided that I would want go for my independent litigation practice

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I have undergone several internships during my five years in college, starting from interning at non governmental organisations like CARE International to District Courts at Ranchi, Jharkhand, High Court of Delhi, Supreme Court of India. I interned at some top tier and mid tier- law firms as well like Mulla & Mulla & Craigie Blunt & Caroe Law Offices, New Delhi, Trilegal Delhi, Bharucha & Partners, Mumbai Office, all in the litigation teams. I had also interned at Anand & Anand Law Firm, Mumbai Office for IPR and Publications houses like Indlaw. I tried doing a mixed bag of internships to get to know the work involved and understand where my real interest lay. Litigation somewhere dominated the choice in internships too. All the internships were very rewarding, as along with getting to see the diverse nature of work that the professionals are handling and being part of them, you also get to learn the manner of working in a structured environment.

    How can students avoid a decision paralysis?

    I am of the opinion that ‘Law’ as a field offers the widest arrays of career opportunities and no career choice is bad as such when it comes to a lawyer, as switching from one career option to another is much easier as compared to other fields. Working as an Associate in the Law Firm, and switching to full time litigation in the Courts in India was smooth for me. Similarly, many corporate houses look for candidates with litigation experience to handle their in-house works, so switching from litigation to corporate is also not very difficult and vice versa. There are several examples who have shifted careers and are doing very well in their new fields. ‘Law’ in the country has been ever evolving, and the branches of law ever increasing. One must go with what interests them most and secures their future in it. Decision paralysis, according to me, is only a state of mind. However this can be avoided by undertaking as many diverse internships as one can as a student of law,  if not to understand what one wants than to know what one doesn’t want as a professional

    On the importance of studying further, though I did not opt for further studies right after graduation, I think having a higher degree coupled with in-depth knowledge of a particular branch is always rewarding. Apart from adding to the personality, exposure and confidence of the candidate, a higher degree sometimes becomes vital in terms of the leap you take even in the later stages of your career. Also a higher degree expands the opportunities as some organisations and certain posts are limited for a candidate possessing a graduate degree or more.  It also gives you the flexibility of making big career changes like suddenly switching from a corporate career to academics etc.

    When it comes to deciding what next step is to be taken after graduation, different things work for different people. For some, job satisfaction is more important, some would want more security, while some would opt for creative satisfaction. It is important to choose a path that one may enjoy for the longer run and securing oneself in that. I would also like to add here that even if a decision does not turn out the way one thought it to be, it is never too late to steer in another direction, as sky is the limit in this profession.

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    From a law student to a lawyer, the transition has been at several levels as.  Litigation is a very challenging profession but the results can also bear immense satisfaction for a practitioner of law. Although a lawyer remains a law student throughout his life, the way of looking at things from a professional stand point changes. The profession changes your perspectives on things that you had as a student of law. While a lot of theoretical understanding and brainstorming is done as a student of law, the profession also involves many practical dimensions to an aspect or study. A lawyer who is entrusted with the case owes the highest degree of responsibility to the client as well as to the Court of law and has to accordingly conduct his case. A student of law from the protected environment takes a long leap as a professional amidst cut throat competition.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences as an Associate at India International Jurists. 

    My early professional experiences at India International Jurists was quite an eye opener about the field of law as it was my first job. I learnt a lot while handling diverse kinds of matters in the firm. The confidence of handling the matters on my own and switching to independent litigation are the decisions that followed.

     

    In deciding between Corporate and Litigation practice, what are the parameters that you considered? 

    In my first job at India International Jurists Law Firm at New Delhi, I got the opportunity to work in both Corporate as well as litigation matters. I was appearing before the Delhi and Gurgaon Courts in several litigation matters and simultaneously also working on some corporate cases, but I enjoyed litigation work more than the corporate practice. And that was the only parameter that guided me to take up litigation in the Courts. In my five years stint in the Jharkhand High Court, I have appeared in a variety of matters ranging from Civil, Service, family disputes, Arbitration matters to some Criminal matters as well, representing the Petitioner’s case as well as the State side. But the maximum work has been on the Civil side, especially Service matters which has become a core area of practice now.

    Do you try to consciously build a specific body of work? 

    It is a fact that apart from doing the maximum number of cases that came my way, as a first generation lawyer, I have also consciously tried to build my Curriculum Vitae doing the maximum variety of work as a lawyer, so as to build a good body of work, not restricting myself to anything specific. This is also the reason that apart from working on my own matters, I had worked with the two former Advocate Generals and Additional Advocate General of the State representing the State of Jharkhand in a variety of matters so as to get maximum exposure in terms of work. I have done Public Interest Litigations, Service/ Employment matters, Civil cases, Property matters both representing the Petitioner’s side in some as well as Defendants in some, as I was appearing from the State Government side too. All the matters that have come in the way have been very interesting, though I would refrain from giving a detailed account of them. I have appeared for some social causes through Public Interest Litigations and they have been immensely satisfying experiences. There have been certain cases for implementation of provisions of motor vehicles act to curb the increasing accidents on the roads, challenging the framework of Right to Education act to make it more effective,  framing of rules for formulating rules for the State police to check the incidents of custodial death. There were several other civil and criminal cases. These cases and many more have helped me build my career as it stands today.

     

    How did you come to become one of the Founders at Legal Eagle? 

    Legal Eagle is an initiative started by my colleague, Shubham Gautum, an NLIU Graduate and me. In fact, I would like to credit him for this brilliant idea. Belonging to a tier II city, being first generation lawyers, studying in National Law Schools and coming back to our hometowns to practice law makes our journey somewhat similar. We were discussing that a lot many people in the town are still unaware of the field of law and the concept of national law universities and other good colleges, the prospects that it offers as a professional degree, when Shubham came up with the idea that we should contribute to the field by spreading information about this field, counselling kids and their parents and also mentoring kids for the examinations. The idea instantly clicked with me. This motivated us to start this initiative from our own understanding and experience. In the year 2016, we held as many as fifteen seminars and interactive sessions at different schools in Ranchi addressing students of Class XI and XII, informing them about the field, how it works, the pros and cons, what to expect as a student of law and as a professional, the current available options of the interdisciplinary degrees etc. With time a number of students have associated with us.

     

     

    What gaps in awareness and legal education does Legal Eagle seek to fill? 

    ‘Legal Eagle’ is more of a platform to make the students and parents know of the field of law as it exists today. It is a fact that most of the families in smaller cities in India are aware of the fields of engineering and medicine but have complete lack of information when it comes to less trodden career fields like  Law, Fashion Technology, Mass Communication, Hotel Management etc. Though law is the emerging career of these times but the awareness about the field still remains quite low, especially in smaller cities. In order to bridge these differences, we are holding seminars, discussions, interactions at various forums addressing all kinds of audiences to spread information about the field. Apart from this we are also mentoring students for the upcoming law entrance examinations giving them full class room environment and preparing them for the upcoming examinations.

    What does the scope of work you undertake include at Legal Eagle? 

    The scope of work at Legal Eagle is wide. Apart from the interactive and counselling sessions, as a Mentorship Institute, we are providing the students the best guidance possible to appear in the law entrance examination through class room teaching for examinations like CLAT. We provide them with the materials, a number of Mock tests on different patterns, sectional mocks, quizzes. We are conducting regular classes for different subjects/ topics covered in these tests. We are in regular touch with the parents of the kids being mentored by us by giving them performance maps. With a fresh batch of students coming up in the month of April, after their Board examination, a lot of time will be involved in that as well.

    ‘Legal Eagle’ is a pet project, very close to our heart. Both me and Shubham believe in it and are working everyday towards the goal. We aim to mentor a limited number of student with the best guidance we can. Right from addressing a crowd to counselling a parent or mentoring students, I  love every aspect of the work in ‘Legal Eagle’ and that makes it very enjoyable.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career? 

    The importance of mentor or guide has to be acknowledged, be it any field. And especially in this field, where a lot depends on the skills and experience of being in the profession. During the formative years of my career as a litigator, I was working with the Senior Advocate, M. Sohail Anwar, a very well known and respected professional in the field. Working with or being attached to someone in the formative years in the field of litigation cannot be overstated as observing and learning the little nuances of the profession becomes very vital when handling a case on your own, as you shape your future in the backdrop of those experiences. The little things like closely watching your mentor dealing with the client and the case at various stages are very important. Especially for a first generation lawyer, who has no exposure whatsoever, of the field.

    Where would you like to see Legal Eagle five years down the line?

    Five years down the line I see ‘Legal Eagle’ bring a big change in the prevailing environment where people’s reservation of opting for the ‘field of law’ is dispelled and the information about the existing scenarios reaches all and people are able to make informed career choices . We hope Legal Eagle makes an indelible mark on the minds of people, especially the students who are associated with us.  We see Legal Eagle soar in five years time.

     

    Do you believe that we are becoming open to careers other than those belonging to the STEM disciplines?

    The prevailing mindsets of most of the parents we come across, is to make their children opt for streams like science in the higher secondary so that they can go for professions like engineering and medicine, without even knowing if their interests lie in that field. Also, the people who have done law are only thought to be the ones practicing in the courts and there’s a particular image of the practicing advocates in our country which is not very positive. They are unaware how much the field has expanded and how much it can offer. In fact it has become one of the most dynamic professions of these times, where lawyers are not just restricted to court rooms, but are now part every company’s board room, small and big agencies, banks, public sector enterprises, start ups, think tanks, local, national and international organisations. Corporate sector is full of lawyers in different roles. Lawyers are entering academics. Percentage of lawyers cracking UPSC every year is on a rise. Most bureaucrats and politicians have a background in law and that gives them an edge. We have counselled a number of students and their parents telling them about this field and what it can offer to a professional. Most of the time, a student is very convinced and wants to take up law but faces dissent of the parents. We then counsel the parents about the profession to dispel their doubts. There is definitely a shift in people’s approach. They are becoming aware and are more willing to go for the new age disciplines today. But then again, in a smaller city, the ratio of such people is very less, as compared to a metro city. Hence the pace of the change in the mindsets is also slower.

     

    As the co-founder at Legal Eagle, what does a typical working day look like for you?

    At Legal Eagle, the classes usually starts early. Planning and organising takes entire days sometimes. Even when the active sessions are not going, the planning is always going in the background. We keep organising free weekly quizzes for students to take maximum benefit of. For the kids we are mentoring, apart from the regular classes in every subject we conduct as many free mocks, sectional tests etc. for them to take maximum benefit of.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    The best way to be updated about the latest developments in law or in any other field for that matter is by staying aware of the things happening around on a daily basis. Newspapers are the best way of staying abreast with everything around. Apart from that, like the many developments in the field of law, so are there advanced multiple software for legal search. Being updated with the latest laws and accessing them have become easy in today’s times. Also the fraternity is full of people reading and researching on everything new and the out of court intensive discussions with the peers and seniors serve as great advantage to lawyers.

     

    What books, judgements that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    Every system is a product of its own unique experience, similar is the case with our very own system. ‘India since Independence’ by Bipan Chandra is one such book that has given an account of the history that has lead to the making of the contemporary times and is a very good read to understand where and why India stands today. Legal Philosophy can be built only on the backdrop of history. Another book, ‘Before memory fades’ by Fali S. Nariman describes his journey as a lawyer and gives perspective to budding lawyers on the field of litigation. There are several judgements which have acted as catalysts for taking up the profession.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about?

    There are many social causes I feel strongly about. One of them is women’s cause in the society. I am yet to do a lot and contribute as a lawyer, in whatever capacity I could. I am an empanelled lawyer of JHALSA (Jharkhand State Legal Services Authority) for giving legal advice and assistance to poor persons who are unable to engage a counsel. I have been representing those clients on behalf of JHALSA.

    It is the concern for the legal field which made me take up a project like ‘Legal Eagle’ where awareness and education is one of the causes that I feel needs to be addressed.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I have always consciously tried to create time for my personal interests apart from the professional life, as my personal time gives me the much needed sanity and boost for the work ahead. It becomes very difficult on certain days where I am caught up in work throughout the day but certain days I have the liberty and time to mould according to my interests. My interests outside law are many. I could spend entire days painting, swimming, reading a book, watching movies or travelling someplace.

     

    What advice would you like to give to students aspiring to build a career in law? 

    For students aspiring to build a career in law, my advice would be to use the immense potential that the degree in law has to offer. Be vigilant, as it is very much important for a law student to be aware of the things happening around. Finally and most importantly, working hard is the only mantra to be successful in your own terms.

    In this cut throat competition, for a student preparing for any competitive examination, the highest degree of commitment is required. The student preparing for the exam should give minimum number of hours of study everyday for the examination and stick to the daily schedule, as being organised is very important at this stage. Solving past year papers, maximum question banks helps one check his speed and accuracy in solving questions. Understanding the nature of questions is very important to understand the examinations. Lastly, belief in oneself should never be lost.

    Like they say, “if the end is clear, the means to the end will take care of itself”.

     

  • Marilyn Coelho, Compliance Manager, Legasis, on studying in Goa, and her experience in corporate compliance

    Marilyn Coelho, Compliance Manager, Legasis, on studying in Goa, and her experience in corporate compliance

    Marilyn Coelho graduated in law from GR Kare College of Law, Goa, in 2010. She then went on to pursue her Masters from Symbiosis International University, Pune, in international and business law. She is currently compliance manager at Legasis Services Pvt. Ltd., where her role entails research on laws applicable to various industries like automobile, IT, pharmaceutical, telecommunications etc.; establish relationships with foreign law firms to grow the compliance network, trainings on bribery laws like the FCPA, UKBA and PCA, prepare compliance manuals based on the compliance need of the organisation, Implement a compliance solution for any given organisation, identify new business opportunities, and client relationship management.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Studying in Goa
    • Her diverse experience in corporate compliance
    • Striking work-life balance

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    “Be the change you wish to see in the world” – Mahatma Gandhi once said. This quote is what inspired me to take up law. I strongly live by this statement, which mind you is not easy to practice at times. Education/Reading + Proper Application + Positive thinking together make a good blend of thoughts and character required to achieve this initiative. I choose to use this blend to help me achieve the goals that I set out, however small they might be, and it works for me.

     

    What inspired you to take up law? 

    When I first decided that I want to study law, everyone was bit taken back because I loved History and it was only natural for me to do a Major in History. At first, the jokes about lawyers and the questionable morality of the profession made me second guess my decision, but I had a really great support system and that helped me and encouraged my decision.

    Being a silent participant in the injustice that takes place all around us, is not something I could live with. Law helped me realize that I am able to conceptualize my ideologies.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law as an undergraduate student at GR Kare College of Law, Goa.

    The education system in Goa especially for law was encouraging as we had a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable professors who always motivated us to do better and be better. It also was a lot of fun as the professors has a humorous side to them and had a great way of connecting law with practical examples and personal experiences which made the learning experience enjoyable. We used to have a lot of surprise tests and assignments that we needed to submit and the evaluation criteria was quite tough. This meant that we could not copy from the internet much (Jokes), but this is what helped us in applying our minds and to produce work that was both original and creative. Law assignments are all about case studies and legal provisions, the more case studies you add the better it is, but what we learnt was that it is not just about the number of case studies or legal provisions that you cite, but more focus was given to the quality of the content of assignment.

    “Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.” – Albert Einstein, this message and quality was imbibed in us, for which I am grateful as it thought us that we as lawyers have to work hard to uphold the integrity of the Constitution and stand by what we think and believe to be right.

     

    Have you always been keen on a career in Corporate Compliance? 

    Corporate compliance is something I stumbled upon on my way to finding out my practise area and I am glad I did as I am able to again conceptualize on my ideologies of justice.

    Corruption and greed as you may agree is the root cause of all the injustice that is prevalent in the world. Our economy is booming but our ecosystem is struggling. The question is how and why? My response would be lack of accountability, lack of transparency, lack of governance and lack of compliance.

    Compliance not only promotes good governance, but also helps our ecosystem flourish by setting up systems and processes that help prevent corruption and proper utilization of funds.

    Law is a very profession with an ocean of practise areas, deciding which practise area you should pick really depends on what your interests are. Say you are passionate about sport; you have the option of looking for internships with lawyers practising sports law or writing about sports law.

    When you are not sure about which practise area you pick or which career path you have to follow, just sit down and think. The starting point would be to pick out your areas of interest, prioritize your interest, and find out how best you can achieve commercializing your interest.

     

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    In one word, lost. Moving out of law school I felt I had mugged up enough books and gathered sufficient knowledge to help me on my career path as a lawyer, BUT, it wasn’t so. Even though we had a very practical and experienced based education, it just never prepares you for the cut throat competition, the various ways of applying the law and changing enforcement regimes.

    Can you tell our readers a little about the work that you do?

    The company (Legasis Services Pvt. Ltd.) which I work with has given me plenty of opportunity to diversify and grow. As I said, earlier corporate compliance is something I stumbled upon, Legasis helped me realize the importance of compliance to our society and how organisations can benefit from having robust compliance systems in place to meet their business need.

    I had the opportunity of going on a secondment to Jaguar Land Rover for a year and a half to assist them in setting up their Global Compliance Programme. This was a great experience as it took me to the other side of the fence and helped me get a more holistic view of compliance and form an organisations perspective.

    Today as a compliance manager I view compliance to be a business enabler and a car that is very much in need of a driver. My role is not restricted to any legal area or any specific industry, which is great as it keeps challenging me and increases the learning curve.

     

    Could you tell us a bit about the training programmes that you conduct for conglomerates in India on topics of fraud, corruption and bribery?

    Honestly speaking, this topic is something that I am very passionate about. I look at these training or sensitization sessions as a good deed that I am doing but in a corporate landscape. One would automatically assume that being a conglomerate, all the employees or management would be well aware of their corruption or bribery risks, it is actually quite surprising that this is not the case. There was a gap of knowledge on this topic and we are happy to have been able to identify this gap and lucky to have been given the opportunity to fill this gap.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    It is so important to make time to pursue your personal interests. Finding a balance between work and your social life is a great start to a successful and happy career. I love to read and travel, and fortunately I am able to do both.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Be brave and follow your dreams.

  • Mehboob Rahman, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    Mehboob Rahman, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    Mehboob Rahman graduated in law from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2008. He is an independent legal practitioner at the Calcutta High Court. With over seven years of litigation experience, he has handled matters pertaining to the Companies Act and Sections 9, 11 and 34 of the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 to Civil Revisions, Appeal Hearings(Civil), Criminal Revisions, Criminal Appeals – all falling under the Original and the Appellate Side jurisdiction of the Hon’ble Calcutta High Court.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His litigation experience
    • Practising at the Calcutta High Court
    • His internship experience

     

    What would you like to say to our readers in the manner of an introduction of yourself?

    I have been a practicing lawyer for the past seven years at High Court, Calcutta. I have dealt with varied matters such as writs under various groups, criminal and original side suits. It is pertinent here to mention that my father is a senior advocate here at High Court, Calcutta and my mother was a police officer at Kolkata Police. Therefore terms like “law” and “court” were something which I was used to since childhood.  

     

    What inspired you to take up law? 

    You see, as a child sometimes I used to accompany my father at work and used to play around in his office. I was used to seeing law books, briefs, client conference, and everything else that I see today. All our good family friends were either lawyers or police officers. When I took up law, it was “quite expected” and a predictable move. The best part about Symbiosis Law School at that time was, It had offered the course B.B.A.,LL.B for the first time and mine was the inaugural batch. I had a commerce background in school so it was again a very predictable choice. I always knew that it is either going to be business or law after school. That’s how i ended up in Symbiosis.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law as an undergraduate student at Symbiosis Law School, Pune.

    Studying Law at Symbiosis Law School was in my opinion the best five years in my life. By this I don’t mean only academics. I don’t think I need to rate Symbiosis on its academic parameters. We already know about it. Its more than that. It was the life there I am talking about. We made some lifelong friends there, friends who are still in touch and going strong. Moreover I did not feel that there is a rat race going on out there. Everyone of us was unique in our own way and being in Symbiosis only brought out the best in everyone. I believe I was a very mediocre student yet I never had any regrets about it because at the end of it I felt loved and co operated by my professors, friends and some exceptional seniors. Symbiosis used to be and still is more than just an institution or a degree, its about the time, about my friends from all over the country and also the city, Pune. My friends used to think that I must be having lot of support back home academically since I have a lawyer in the family. On the contrary when I used to tell my father that I am really panicked about Constitution paper the day after, I used to get replies such as “there is absolutely nothing there, absolutely nothing, simply study Article 226 that is very important and useful,”. I had to switch over to other topics such as finance and sustenance immediately because I knew the discussion is going no where.  During my time we had the opportunity to experience excellent faculties and during our principal’s lectures there used to be 100% attendance not due to fear or respect, it was because she was the best at it.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    Co-curricular activities are very important in law students life or for that matter any student’s life because it takes you out of the mundane clockwork routine and classes to something different. I took part in few moot courts though I was not into serious mooting. We had these regular symposiums and guest lectures where we interacted with eminent personalities and it dealt with many topics which was prevalent then. I was an active participant in the committees and the sub committees during an event of our college with the support of my seniors wherein you need to manage events or simply make things work! I was good at interaction and negotiating with people who could be anyone from a vendor to a guest whoever is necessary to make an event successful. Even in litigation the most important resource next to knowledge is people and therefore interaction and counselling plays an important part. Therefore its completely clear how the extracurricular activities plays an important part in ones life in what way.

    What were you areas of interest during your legal education?

    As a student I found the subjects on criminal law quite intriguing. I found it to be very closely related with different human behaviour. As a lawyer I never chose anything specific to specialise in. I have simply gone with the flow. I stick to what my father used to say that its never a lawyer who decides what he/she specialises in, its always the clients.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    The practical aspect of legal profession is indeed very different when we compare it with what we do during our college days. In real world, there is no syllabus and its not about making your teacher happy by sticking to doing exactly what is expected out of you. It is about making people happy, giving them relief of their misery. You might fail in that attempt but the effort should always be genuine. My internships were all based around litigation working under eminent lawyers. I spent a lot of time at the court listening to arguments and trying to follow court procedures. I realised then that what we learn post graduation in our professional scenario is far different than academics. Internships give you an insight in how to take things and from where, develop research skills, understand the profession better.

     

    At a time when most students are inclined to taking up corporate jobs, what influenced your decision to take up litigation?

    I believe its completely a personal choice. Both corporate and litigation are perfect in its own sphere and there is enough to learn in both of them. However I will tell you exactly what went in my mind while choosing litigation. Firstly like I mentioned earlier, I like work which are people oriented. In litigation you are constantly interacting with real people. Not just your clients and colleagues but you need to know lot of people within the various departments of the court in order to have a smooth flow of work. I realise now how heavily we depend on someone or the other somehow in litigation at every step. Secondly, I wanted to work for myself. Thirdly, I wanted to be the master of my time. Whenever I get an opportunity I travel, or at least travel to meet a friend probably. Life always happens outside work. One must never forget that.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis? 

    I wouldn’t term it as a decision paralysis exactly. It’s a matter of objectivity. For example doing an LLM would really be helpful if you are into academics professionally. However it does not really give you an edge as a practicing lawyer. I should not be misinterpreted here, it is completely my personal opinion. Opinions do differ. I always support higher education and it is always enriching, opens up your mind and scope. Therefore it completely depends on what one wants exactly. I have completed a PGDHRM when I got time, taking a short break from work.

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    It’s a metamorphosis actually. Being a law student and a lawyer is completely different. As a student our object was to pass in exams with good grades. At work you need to live up to your client’s expectations while adhering to all procedures. Time is not always in our favour as courts in India are clogged with pending matters and less number of judges to dispose the same, which we all know. As a law student a section, or a chapter of a law book was a tiny part of the curriculum. In court days might be consumed arguing on one application made on a single section. Drafting is again an integral part of litigation which is given very little importance at  a law school. One takes time to get a good hold on that too. As a student your mistakes will lead to a bad grade, as a lawyer your mistake will lead to a cost or consequence for your client. Therefore one can understand the diligence that is required.

     

    What is the nature of matters that you take up?

    I take up matters both civil and criminal in nature. At the High Court, I am mostly occupied with writs under various group heads such as land, municipality, service etc. I have taken up matters on dismissal/removal of employees of the Paramilitary Forces of India and other services under the state and central government including employees of public sector undertakings. Suits and criminal matters have been an important part of my practice as well, filing and dealing of which mostly takes place at the High Court and various District Courts in West Bengal. I also have a strong affinity for matrimonial matters and counselling. Non litigation work consist of Searching Land Title, Valuation, Conveyance and Registration before Registrar of Assurance and Additional District Sub-registrar. Drafting of various instruments/documents pertaining to Sale, Lease, Mortgages, Power of Attorney and Will.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    Personal interests are the ones which define you as a person, as a human being. You might be remembered how good you were professionally but you will surely be remembered how you were as a human. Life is always outside work. I am more of an outdoor person. Travelling is one of my primary interest. It makes you a better human being every time. One must explore places away from home in order to appreciate what we already have in hand. Trekking up a hostile terrain teaches you how comfortable we are back home and we shall never take things for granted. I am passionate about motorcycles and I often go on rides. Riding is extremely rejuvenating. I wouldn’t lie, I actually look for excuses to ride even if it is for a short while.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Law is indeed an ever changing field. One must keep himself/herself updated with the new developments in their field through precedence, books, journal, circular, news and of course Google! It is not difficult now as it was before. We have online resources such as manupatra, scc online and airweb to name a few. Socialising with colleagues is surprisingly the fastest way to learn about new developments.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    To students, enjoy your college life as it is going to happen only once unless you are talented and may extend it. Make friends and make memories there as those are going to last a lifetime. I am not discouraging ambitious students but its okay to take it a little easy with studies as it is more than academics which is going to take you places in professional life. For young lawyers, patience and perseverance are the keys. Look for opportunity to learn at every step. Losing is also learning. Makes you stronger. Lastly love what you do, do what you love.

     

  • Chaitra Beerannavar, Research Fellow, Cambridge University, on getting a Ph.D, choosing academia, and her passion for teaching

    Chaitra Beerannavar graduated in law from  University Law College, Dharwad, in 2010. She went on to pursue her Masters from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2012. She subsequently pursued her Ph.D from the same university. She is currently Dr. D. C. Pavate Fellow, Department of Politics and International Studies, University of Cambridge, U.K. Her area of research is “India and Its Experience with Bilateral Investment Treaties (BITs): Lessons From BRICS”.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her interest in academia
    • Being a prolific writer
    • Studying in Cambridge

    What motivated you to take up law?

    I knew many lawyers growing up. My father said I should take the judicial exam to make sure that I followed his suit. I didn’t want to do that but I really had no idea of what I did want to do, beyond choosing law because I was sure that  law as a career opens up the possibility of embarking upon one of the most dynamic and challenging careers available.

     

    How would you describe your time at ULC Dharwad?

    ULC Dharwad in many ways is self-contained. It focused on life outside the classroom along the themes of off-campus activities, leisure and the arts, and athletics. I had found respite from my studies in activities both solitary and social, on campus and off. During my time, it always focused on engaging with constituencies outside the law school. Alumni/ae and the local and state bar and judiciary were its obvious constituencies. We had an active clinic, which provided greater school outreach to the communities. This kind of non-lawyer support typically took the form of vouching for the law school’s value to the community.

     

    What are the parameters that must be considered in deciding what the next step should be after graduation?

    Opting for Masters will always broaden one’s horizon. A Masters of Law is internationally recognised, meaning you could study anywhere, and then move anywhere to make use of it. Obviously, there are sometimes limitations (you need to make sure you’ve studied law in the appropriate area). It’s a great opportunity to specialise – whether in taxation law, corporate law or something else entirely. The more obscure an area you’re interested in, the more beneficial you’ll probably find the LLM. If your interest in law lies outside of practising and more in teaching and In order to research and teach about law, you’ll almost certainly need an LLM.

    But when it comes choosing the right one, Students have to decide what matters to them:  scholarly caliber of the faculty?  Numerical credentials of their fellow students?  Clerkships?  Corporate law jobs?  They can narrow down the list of schools to which they’ve been accepted to those they ought to visit and investigate for themselves to see if they’re a good fit for their masters.

    Could you share with our readers some insight on how one can excel in academics and co-curricular activities alike?

    (Chaitra has been awarded with several gold medals right from her LLB days up to her Master’s including several scholarships.)

    Being successful means acknowledging the challenges, so you can deal with them the best that you can before you experience them. Perhaps the key to a successful academic experience is winning the law school mind game. Law school success can be defined in many ways—graduating, getting a job, good grades, creating lifelong relationships. Grades are just part of the equation. If you do not get straight A’s, there are plenty of other ways to make yourself an attractive job applicant. One way to move past bad grades is to acquire practical skills and practical experience. Your GPA is one line on your resume—you need more than that to stand out. If you can create a niche within an area of law—go for it. Independent research and writing classes are a great way to delve into an area that is not covered in class. If you are on law review or a journal, write about a hot-topic in an emerging area of law.

     

    What was your Ph.D thesis on?

    My Master and Ph.D. theses were based on the research problem of contemporary concern. My Ph.D thesis was on testing the feasibility of Reverse Mergers in Indian capital market. The study is of intricate nature which makes comparative analysis of Reverse Merger with IPO methods.

     

    When did you decide that teaching was your passion?

    My interest in becoming a law professor began while working as a Research Scholar at Symbiosis Law School, Pune. During my Ph.D., my rigourous doctrinal courses covering a number of fields, serving on law oriented student law journals and in depth intellectual and research relationship with my professors attracted me towards law teaching. Most of all, the relationships students form with their professors allow students to observe how to become and thrive as scholars.

     

    What do you enjoy most about teaching?

    As a law teacher, I enjoy thinking and talking about the law and working to make the law better and more equitable. Teaching at one’s alma mater can be difficult. Former professors become your colleagues, and you have to overcome the reluctance to challenge or contradict your mentors. You also have to confront suspicions about academic “incest” from outsiders. For me, the experience has been mostly positive.

     

    What tips would you give students and young lawyers who are inclined to research and academic writing?

    Throughout your career as a lawyer, you’ll be judged professionally on two main things: your interpersonal skills and your writing. Writing a paper engages so much of the lawyer’s art that no other predictor of likely success on the job comes close. A well-written, well-researched, thoughtful paper can clinch that law firm job or clerkship. It is indispensable if you aim to teach. Your pre-law-school writing experience and your first-year writing class will help prepare you for it, but only partly. It’s not easy to create an original scholarly work that contributes to our understanding of the law. So take advanced legal research. Most law schools offer some sort of advanced or specialized legal research course as an elective. But the truth is that there’s never enough time in a legal research class to cover everything. So have continuity in your publications.

     

    What is the academic environment like at the University of Cambridge? 

    I was a Pavate Fellow at Department of Politics and International Studies, University of Cambridge and also a Senior Member of Sydney Sussex College, UK in the year 2016.

    As far as the fellowship was concerned, it delivered in most aspects. I was adequately trained to read legal and economic articles critically and, write extended pieces coherently and persuasively. Supervisions at the department were also, for the large part, of high quality and I received close guidance from dedicated supervisors and my mentor Prof. James Mayall, Emeritus Sir Patrick Sheehy Professor of International Relations, University of Cambridge, UK.

    Cambridge has a rigid structure, which should, perhaps, come as no surprise, given how steeped in tradition Cambridge is. It tends to focus its course material in such a way that the student is more inclined towards academic thinking. If I could summarise my experience at Cambridge in three words, they would be ‘driven, fulfilling, and challenged’. It was during that time when I truly learnt how to discuss current legal issues and challenge opinions in my readings, essays and thesis, just like any other professional jurist.

    And as far as social life is concerned, I would say that Cambridge was a humbling eye-opener for me. I had the fortune of being friends with some internationally known jurists and scientists at Cambridge. I met some of the most brilliant (in all senses of the word, not just that which extends to intellectual prowess) people in my life and built strong friendships and networks with them.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career? 

    The single most important thing you can do when you are at a law school is to find and work with a mentor. Ideally, this will be a Professor who teaches you the practice, both substantively and ethically, and serves as a role model.

    When I chose Symbiosis Law School, Pune, it lead me, finally, to Prof.Dr. Shashikala Gurpur, (Fulbright Scholar, Director and Dean of Symbiosis Law School, Pune) who is a legend in Indian Legal academia. This was one of the most impactful mentor relationships that I would ever have. I enjoyed each of her classes immensely, while also learning a lot. That is the greatest gift a professor can give a student, and Professor Gurpur did it repeatedly, not only for me but for so many others over so many years. Professor Gurpur has not only been and remains  a great mentor. I’ve had other great mentors throughout my career, but she was really the first and has guided my adult professional life. She is a tough act to follow but leaves a great legacy, which includes a standard for excellence and dedication that all Law students and professors can learn from.

    Chaitra with Prof. James Mayall, Emeritus Sir Patrick Sheehy Professor of International Relations, University of Cambridge, UK, one of the senior most professors at POLIS, Cambridge, and her mentor and guide.

     

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today? 

    It required modest adjustments in what we teach and why we teach it. one of the best ways to learn a field is to teach it and engage in basic research, and this should apply to everyone getting a doctorate in law.

    Down the line, would want peruse my legal research and writing in a more prominent way.

    What books, judgements that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    My early days at law school were highly influenced by many legal philosophers who left their indelible mark on shaping rule of law. As a student of law it is very important to critically examine existing legal philosophies and decisions of courts and legislations from the point of philosophic principles. Most of such readings included William Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, John Austin’s theory of sovereign law, Lon Fuller’s The Morality of Law, and Palkiwala’s We the People and We the Nation and few judgements which made the initial law school days more thrilling were that of National Judicial Appointments Commission judgment, basic structure etc.

     

    Do you feel that law schools have been successful in producing socially relevant lawyers and researchers? 

    Law schools in India have an obligation to produce socially relevant lawyers and researchers. A long way to go in this direction. The role of law schools and legal education must change with new realities of globalization. Most of the Law schools in India are limited in preparing law students to become lawyers, judges, or some other type of legal professional. But even this more limited perspective should recognize the contemporary environment and the coming changes

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    My experience at law school was always educational. I wouldn’t want to trade those experiences or forget those lessons — they’ve shaped the writer, teacher, friend, and woman I am today.

    Law school is a process of self-discovery. Develop patience to arrive at what you are passionate about.

     

  • Dr. Claudia Winkler, Negotiation Trainer, on studying in Harvard, being a Fulbright Scholar, and the future of negotiation

    Dr. Claudia Winkler, Negotiation Trainer, on studying in Harvard, being a Fulbright Scholar, and the future of negotiation

    Claudia Winkler is a negotiation and mediation trainer, the Director of the IBA-VIAC CDRC Vienna Mediation and Negotiation Competition and the General Counsel of SMART Recruiting Technologies. Claudia received her Master’s and Doctor’s degree in European and international law from the University of Linz and her LL.M. from Harvard Law School. Her professional experience reaches from law to government, non-for profit, start-up, university and international institutions. She has worked as the ADR development coordinator with the New York International Arbitration Center during her time as a Fulbright scholar and is a licensed Mediator in New York. As a trainer Claudia has worked with law firms, businesses, associations and universities in the United States, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia. You can find out more about her work at www.claudiawinkler.net.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • How long term planning helped her to achieve big goals like a PhD, a Fulbright Scholarship and a degree from Harvard Law School
    • How coffee meetings can be the best tip for your career advancement in ADR and
    • How negotiation skills will determine your legal career in the 21st century.

     

    How would you describe yourself in one line?

    Hopeless optimist, careful strategist, curious explorist? Is that one line? If I could summarize myself in short I would describe myself as a negotiation enthusiast who stubbornly has set out to bring change to the way lawyers across the world resolve conflict, negotiate with their counterparts and work with their clients.

     

    What motivated you to take up law?

    I am a first-generation lawyer, coming from a family of wineries (which I hated when I was young but comes in pretty handy now that I enjoy their wine). At the age of fourteen, I started working internships with different law firms every summer and immediately became fascinated with the incredible tool law provides to make a difference in people’s lives. I decided at that age that I would study law and set to my mind that I had to make it into Harvard Law School.

     

    How did you balance your academics with your co-curriculars? 

    (Claudia has graduated summa cum laude from both her Master and Doctorate at JKU, Linz.)

    Haha, to be honest, when I didn’t study I either slept, ate or did sports. I was a nerd. But I never worked on weekends or holidays, and finished all my degrees below minimum time so I guess it was time efficiently spent without sacrificing any of my relationships and friendships.

     

    Tell us what got you into negotiation training in the first place.

    (As a negotiation trainer, Claudia has trained lawyers all over Europe, the US, Africa and Australia.)

    After my semester with the negotiation program at Harvard Law School, which got me fascinated in negotiation, I moved to New York to spend my Fulbright time working with the New York International Arbitration Centre. Being in New York I quickly made friends with all the law schools there to audit and later guest lecture negotiation courses there. Every step of the way more and more resembled my passion for working with people, teaching and developing new skills. Once back in Europe I was convinced to have found my calling, quit my tenure tack offer and at the age of 27 set sail to navigate the negotiation oceans from thereon forth.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I did a wide variety of internships, from big law firms to small law firms, national to international firms, international organizations like the EU Commission, to teaching English classes in Vietnam. I wanted to make sure to know what the various fields of work are like to be able to decide what I wanted to do by the time I graduate. My biggest learning was to see what environment I thrive in most and where I can apply my skills best. I believe that we can only be our best in fields we truly enjoy, so I used internships to search.

     

    How does one secure prestigious scholarships?

    (Claudia has received the prestigious Fulbright Scholarship and the Harvard Boas Scholarship in International Legal Studies.)

    There is no magic formula but what certainly helped me was my long-term planning for excellent grades, diverse educations, early connections with great mentors and diverse extra-curriculars and work experiences. In my first year at law school I sought out the professor who also was a Fulbright scholar and Harvard alumna and started working with her wherever I could, including later for my doctorate. My entire studies I focused on gathering the right experiences, credits, credibilities and connections that would later help me achieve my goals. I believe that great visions paired with obsessive planning, great mentors and hard work lead to great success. The earlier you start to plan out our educational steps or career, the better you can work towards gathering the right “assets” that will eventually get you where you want to be.

     

    Please share with us some of the learning experiences you have had during your LLM at Harvard.

    There was a lot of personal development I took away from being surrounded by so many inspiring people there, many of which have remained close friends and have influenced me over many years after. It is an interesting paradox that, despite the many world- class legal courses, my personal biggest learning was that in the end better negotiation and communication skills give you leverage over better legal skills any time. The most successful lawyers don’t stand out because of what they know but because of HOW they use it.

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    The best way to avoid decision paralysis is to do as many internships in as many different fields as you can. Once you see what various field are like it will be easier to find the right one. Even if you only know what you DON’T want to do, that’s already a great start. Keep being true to yourself and not doing what you found wasn’t the right thing for you.

     

    In what ways can more awareness about ADR be brought about in countries with higher litigation numbers? 

    Building awareness for a new approach to resolving disputes requires time and needs to start from the next generation. While many senior advocates are well versed in applying alternative methods to resolve disputes, it will be up the generation that is graduating in  the next years to bring the required mindset and awareness to elevate consensual dispute resolution mechanisms like mediation and negotiation to the level of “default go to” they need to become.

    My personal focus in the last few months in India was to, with the help of the network of International Law Students (NILS), train hundreds of law students in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Bangalore, ensuring that they have access to the core skills of negotiation and will approach Dispute Resolution from the right perspective right off the bat. I also spend much of my time providing negotiation trainings to partners and associates in law firms and major conferences like the International Bar Association, helping them to fine tune their negotiation skills and manage the shift to consensual dispute resolution. In this role I have trainer lawyers, judges, public defenders and entrepreneurs across Europe, the US, in Africa, Australia and Asia.

    Can anyone learn to become a great negotiator?

    YES! It is a common misconception that great negotiators are born. Some might be, but most are indeed made. Like any other skill, negotiation can be learned with the right framework, practice and feedback – for sure by an eager student who is truly interested in learning it.

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    As a self-employed professional I take my work everywhere so it gets difficult to put it away for too long. Over the years I had to learn to balance my ambition and professional goals with keeping a healthy amount of free time. The way I do this is setting fixed schedules and routines. I put personal matters in my calendar – anything that is not in the calendar it’s not happening. My partner and I go sport climbing and enjoy cooking sessions with friends, and yes, they are in the calendar too.

     

    Why is it so important for lawyers nowadays to learn negotiation skills?

    The time where law was about legal battles is over. The new paradigm in law is problem solving. Today’s lawyer has a new job description: cooperative problem solver, client interest focused adviser, business and law savvy partner to corporations.

    Lawyers are hired just as much for their capabilities to overcome business hurdles for clients, skillfully grow business opportunities and quickly solve challenges as they are for their legal skills, which are considered a given. Negotiation skills are at the very core to all these requirements. Without fine tuned negotiation skills lawyers can simply not live up to today’s client expectations.

     

    How is teaching negotiation in India different from other countries you have taught?

    Negotiation is part of India’s DNA, it happens everywhere. As a result of the fierce competition between law firms and law graduates AND the vast backlog of cases in court negotiation skills are more crucial to any lawyer’s success than ever before. Within this newly emerging reality teaching law firms across India is particularly stimulating and rewarding – because lawyers here are aware of these major shifts and bring great curiosity, experience and excitement to my workshops.

    What recommendation do you have for young lawyers that want to make it in the ADR, Mediation or the negotiation field?

    It’s hard to start a purely Mediation or Negotiation related career right out of law school since there is no set career path and most of the (rare) jobs need a certain, age-connected, experience and credibility to become accessible. While you often can’t start with a job in this field you can do many things to get you there quickly. Go to trainings, attend conferences, shadow mediations, assist with trainings, publish papers, volunteer in mediation centers, join mediation organizations that have young mediator platforms and most of all continuously meet people that are working in the field. Make it a point to meet at least one interesting new person a week for coffee. Email people that you admire in your field, tell them what you are up to, share what you admire about them, and ask if they would be available to talk to you over coffee to share some of their career insights and learnings with you. You will be surprised how many people will actually write back and be happy to meet you. The learning and network is invaluable. You last sentence in every meeting should then always be “is there anyone that you think would be interesting for me to talk to?”.

     

     

     

  • Iqbal Khan, Partner, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on his time in LSE, his diverse experience, and plans for the future

    Iqbal Khan graduated in law From London School of Economics and Political Science in 2006. Prior to that he had attended DePaul University, where he pursued his Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Science. Following his graduation in law, he went on to pursue his JD from Columbia School of Law as a GradeHarlan Fiske Stone Scholar. He is currently Partner at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, where he is member of the Private Equity and Mergers & Acquisitions Practice Group. He advises some of the largest sovereign wealth funds, global private equity funds and strategic corporates, and specializes in private equity investments, mergers and acquisitions (both domestic and cross-border), joint ventures, advisory on foreign investment laws and corporate and commercial laws. His experience also includes advising on franchising and restructuring laws.

    In this interview we talk to him about:

    • Transitioning from science to law
    • Working for international and Indian firms
    • Striking a work-life balance

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I can best describe myself as an M&A / PE deal junkie with a passion for cricket, food and Bollywood films. I am currently an equity partner at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas. My work primarily focuses on M&A and PE investments.

     

    What motivated you to switch from science to law?

    (Iqbal transitioned to law after completing his B.Sc. in Computer Science from DePaul University.)

    At DePaul, which then had one of the best computer sciences programmes in the U.S., I completed my four year degree in less than three years and then started consulting for Cambridge Technology Partners and Microsoft, respectively. While on a flight to a client’s office, I found a book, Barbarians at the Gate – The Fall of RJR Nabisco in my seat cover. This book changed my life. Barbarians at the Gate details the story of the leveraged buy-out of RJR Nabisco (a must read for every aspiring M&A / PE lawyer).  This book was a turning point in my career and inspired me to change direction, and pursue a career in law with a focus on mergers and acquisitions and private equity investments.

    In fact for all their many differences, law and computer science are surprisingly similar disciplines. They both train you to make decisions and to articulate a framework for managing exceptions. My background in computer sciences had given me solid analytical skills and these were indispensable in my study of the law. Hence, my biggest challenge, as we lawyers like to say, was not substantive, but procedural.

    Pursuing a law degree also meant placing on hold other opportunities for career development.  So I declined several promising roles with start-ups and consulting firms; and in retrospect I am happy with the decisions I made. Law school also meant a significant financial commitment and at the time this was challenging though I was fortunate to have a great deal of moral support in pursuing the degree in spite of the fact that it seemed more attractive to continue working at the time.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law at LSE. 

    The LSE, in my opinion, is one of the best educational institutions in the world.  If we ever have kids and if they ever decide to study abroad, I would recommend that they go to the LSE.  Its teaching philosophy is modelled after its moto — rerum cognoscere causas, a line taken from Virgil’s Georgics meaning “to know the causes of things.”  I have fostered relationships at the LSE, both with academics and students, each of which I value deeply, and hopefully, when I am even more established and successful, I would like to give back to the LSE – both financially and with my time.

    In terms of activities, while I was a student at the LSE, I was on a very tight budget because I was self-funding my education then. So I enjoyed London – a colloquial for I walked everywhere and ate what I could afford.  And this helped me, at in my view, become a more humble man.  And therefore, I believe the LSE gave me a great education in law, and life at the LSE, gave me a great education in life!

     

    What are the parameters that must be considered in deciding what the next step should be after graduation?

    I place a great deal of value on work experience at a law firm and I would consider this to be the best step to pursue after graduation.  Joining a law firm helps young graduates develop and refine their own logical framework of addressing legal issues and this is critical in the practice of law.

    As a young associate, students also have the opportunity to work with multiple Partners and across a range of complex transactions. This builds important skill sets, including the ability to manage clients, your immediate boss and to prioritize competing deadlines.  As a young associate you’ll learn a great deal from each transaction, and each experience is an important building block in informing your strategy for your next deal. Law firms also tend to be less bureaucratic for young associates. If you’re willing to work hard, you can navigate your way across different types of transactions so you make the most of your experience.

     

    Do you try to consciously build a specific body of work?

    Over the past few years the role of senior lawyers has changed.  We are no longer called on only to execute an agreed upon term sheet.  Instead we are seen as critical collaborators for our clients when the deal is in its most nascent stage.  Clients frequently bring me in to advise on the strategy for the transaction and not just its execution.

    For me, my transactions give me an opportunity to extend the firm’s relationship with the client; new or vintage. This is a business where reputation matters, and it is always a moment of pride for us at SAM when our existing clients bring in new clients to the firm.  It’s a testament of how much they value the advice, expertise and trustworthy relationship that we bring to the table. I have a clinical approach to choosing transactions. I tend to work on deals where I can best leverage my expertise in advising on strategy for complex transactions. I also enjoy working on deals, which allow me to draw on my international experience to find new and creative ways to structure a transaction. This has been my approach to building my practice.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP and Kirkland & Ellis LLP?

    My wife used to call Paul, Weiss my first love, because I spent more time at work, then at home with her.  Both Paul, Weiss and Kirkland are exceptional legal institutions, and instilled in me the work ethic and the commitment to clients; both of which are essential to a successful legal career.  Beyond the deals (and both firms have been at the helm of major transactions) and the 2 am sushi dinners at work, both firms introduced me to a formidable set of mentors and collaborators, and I am privileged to count them among my most trusted friends and colleagues.

    The sheer breadth of experience and diversity of transactions at both firms was a key strength for me in my early years as a lawyer.  While at Paul, Weiss, I was part of the team that represented Apollo in what has been designated as one of the key material adverse change cases – Huntsman v. Hexion.  At Kirkland, I what part of the team that did the largest leverage buy-out transaction in India – Apax’s PIPE in iGate for acquisition of Patni.

    All in all, I have been very fortunate for these opportunities, and my own practice in India is modelled after the ethical values I learned at these institutions – that of respect and of immaculate client service.

     

    How did you come to work with Khaitan & Co.? 

    I moved to India in 2013 on account of family reasons.  When I left Kirkland in New York, I had just worked on the Apax-iGate-Patni transaction with Khaitan, as the Indian counsel on the transaction.  Therefore, even though I had offers from some of the top Indian law firms then, I decided to move with Khaitan because of my comfort level with the team there.

    At Khaitan, I fostered some very good relationships, but the ones which I value the most are with RBJ, Sid, Bijal, Bhatta, Moin, Niren, Jean, Chemburkar and Vaishali (now at Agram, and my rakhi sister) – all very good lawyers (except for Jean and Chemburkar – they are exceptional BD professionals) in addition to being wonderful friends. Also, a special shout out to Shankar – the cafeteria manager – for amazing unda pav and missal pav!

     

    How did you make the transition from working at international law firms to an Indian one? 

    There is great deal of a difference between international law firms and Indian ones, and then among Indian law firms.  I can probably write a book on this topic, so let me talk about one or two key difference.  International law firms, at least the ones I have worked for, are very particular about the kind of transactions / cases they choose from and they do not shy away from declining a matter for any number of reasons, including when it comes to fees.  In addition, lawyers at international firms – from a first level associate to the senior most of partners – are always accessible 24×7 to their clients.  Also, I remember my Paul, Weiss induction course till this date where every member of the incoming class was taught by the senior leadership to never compromise on your ethical value systems and to never disrespect your colleagues – ever!  Finally, another element that I miss the most are the support services at some of these firms.  For e.g., from subsidized gourmet cafeterias and gym memberships to 24×7 word processing services.

    SAM is modeled after a top-tier international firm (minus the gourmet cafeteria and free gym memberships).  For e.g., even when I travel, I am always reachable thanks to SAM’s technology and infrastructure team.  Further, neither do we encourage nor do we tolerate disrespectful behaviour at the firm.  Finally, Shardul sir, Pallavi ma’am and Akshay have been very clear regarding maintaining the integrity of the firm and regarding never diluting the value of our letter head.

     

    As Partner at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co, what does a typical working day look like for you? 

    Law is a demanding career, and the long hours are a common feature irrespective of seniority. Regardless of how busy my days are I try and keep a balanced schedule, which includes an hour of meditation at 4:30 am and a late night walk on marine drive. Irrespective of my schedule these two components add stability (and sanity) to my days and are an indispensable source of strength and peace of mind.

    I am an early bird, and I like to get into work by 7:30-8:30 AM before the calls and the meetings start, as I do most of my drafting and reviewing work in the morning.

    Between noon and early evenings on most of my day, I am either on calls or in meetings – with my team on various matters or client meetings. My days usually end at 10:30 PM on average though hours are deal sensitive and when we have a signing / closing, there really isn’t a hard stop to my day.  I am not a believer in face time, so unless there is a live deal, my teams don’t work crazy hours and can work from home late at night depending on the pace of each transaction. I have seen a number of associates burn out early in their career, so it’s important for me, and I also encourage my team, to retain a balance and sense of perspective.

     

    What advice would you give to lawyers who aspire to develop a proficiency in Corporate and Commercial Laws?

    Just one – read, read and read, and when you are tired of reading, read some more.  Reading case laws, transaction documents, statutes and scholarly articles will help you grow your repertoire, and then will come a time, when this will become second nature!

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    Mentors have a formative role across careers, and law is no exception. I have been fortunate to have benefited from the guidance of a formidable set of mentors, including professors at the LSE and at Columbia, senior partners at Paul, Weiss and Kirkland and of course Shardul sir and Pallavi ma’am at SAM.  My own view is that while there is a lot of attention devoted to finding mentors, there is much less attention focused on making yourself mentor-worthy.  Mentors are great sources of collaboration and advice, but engaging and retaining a mentor is hard work and requires discipline, focus and a commitment to excellence in your field.  If you bring this to the table, you will find mentors happy to encourage, advise and even collaborate with you.

    At the LSE, Professor Martin Loughlin played a very important role in my development as a law student.  Followed by Igor Kirkman and Tervor Norwiz (both partners at Watchell) at Columbia who taught me how to dissect an M&A agreement at lightning speed and how to negotiate – a key skill set for every M&A lawyer.

    I am also very grateful for the mentorship and friendship of Ariel Deckelbaum at Paul Weiss.  The same credit extends to Sri Kaushik at Kirkland.  In addition, a special shout out to Bob Schumer, Tarun Stewart and Justin Hamill at Paul, Weiss for teaching me, by example, the qualities of an exceptional lawyer, and to Leo Greenberg for the same at Kirkland.

    I honestly believe that as lawyers we continue to learn from our mentors, and even today at Shardul Amarchand, I am floored by the humility and the legal acumen of Shardul sir and Pallavi ma’am. I consider them both as my mentors as well.

     

    What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel in this industry?

    There are two types of attributes: those based on aptitude and another set, based on attitude. So all lawyers need to check off the boxes in terms of knowledge of the law and adherence to the cardinal principle of attorney-client privilege. But these are simply the attributes of a good lawyer.

    Good lawyers are defined by knowledge. Great lawyers are measured by the trust their clients have in them; and trust is a function of excellence and personal integrity. These two attributes define success in law (as they do in most other fields as well).

    As a lawyer, it is also critical to appreciate your client’s requirements while addressing complex and challenging issues and to build your relationship with each client. At the end of the day clients need to know that their case has your individual and personal attention. In terms of my own practice, I have built it on both depth and breadth, i.e., working on new matters with existing clients as well as taking on new matters from new clients. Both in my view are critical to building out a Michelin 3-star type practice.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I am a very religious man – if you, like me, designate cricket as a religion.  Besides watching cricket (and doing the Govinda dance every time Virat slams the ball across the boundary) and tennis (go Federer!), I enjoy watching Bollywood movies.  I have deep affinity for everything Indian – from the Indian Cricket team to my favourite cuisine – Indian; and much of this is based on the fact that I have spent a better part of my life outside India. So the connect to all things Indian has been strong.

    I also have an interest in cars (vintage rules), art (both Renaissance and modern) and architecture. Volunteering is a passion and both my wife and I are actively involved in voluntary capacity with the institutions and agencies of the Aga Khan Development Network.

     

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    At the end of the day, career trajectories are all about excellence. The notion that you’ve “arrived” or “made it” is misleading because when you reach what used to be your milestone, another one appears over the horizon. I would say simply this that I wish to build my career in pursuit of excellence and that means continuing to have one of the best M&A / PE practices in the country and ensuring that SAM continues to be one of the most well respected firms in the field.

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Law and perhaps medicine are two fields where continuing education is critical to survival. Because law doesn’t function in a vacuum (and depends on political, social and economic context, among other factors), advising clients on structure and interpretation can be complex in a rapidly changing environment. SAM is fortunate to benefit from an amazing CLE team that provides daily deal and regulatory updates.

    Within my team we are also required to write articles (which therefore means we need to stay updated) and discuss key issues each week.

    For e.g., we’ve discussed everything from arbitration provisions (and the issues involved from a private equity investor point of view) to various transaction structures and their implications.  To attend and to be part of the CLE curriculum – at a firm level and at a team level – is an absolute requirement for all my team members.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    My advice would be to twofold: the first that students invest in quality education and target only the best possible schools for their law degree.  

    The second that they invest in continuing education as well. Law is a complex and rapidly evolving field and frequent changes both in substance and interpretation require that students invest in continuing education throughout the course of their career.

    Overall, neither of these are possible unless you love the field of law. Good lawyers are defined by knowledge but great lawyers have a passion for the law. Pursuits based on passion bring success!

  • Anandh Venkataramani, Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on competition law, studying in the US, and his teaching experience

    Anandh Venkataramani, Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on competition law, studying in the US, and his teaching experience

    Anandh Venkataramani graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. After a successful stint at LakshmiKumaran and Sridharan, he went on to pursue his Masters at New York University School of Law, with a specialization in antitrust, litigation, and corporate law. He has been admitted to the Bar in the Republic of India, and the State of New York, USA. He is currently Associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, with a focus on competition law.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Qualifying the NY Bar and studying in the US
    • His diverse experience
    • His interest in teaching

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    As someone who is curious and always looks forward to new experiences and and new opportunities for learning. I’d say I’m the same professionally as well.

     

    How did you go about choosing law as your career?

    I was bent on preparing for SATs in my 12th standard with an aim to study biotechnology. Zoology interested me a lot. My father, also in the legal profession, encouraged me to study biotechnology, and he just happened to give me some basic readings on political philosophy and legal essays, generally. While the not so subtle encouragement I received from people in the legal profession made me consider pursuing law, it was the readings that appealed to my love for debates and tipped me towards applying to law schools.

     

    Tell us about your experience as a student of Symbiosis Law School.

    In two words, colourful and enriching. The time spent during those five years were formative for all of us. I surely learnt a lot, both in and outside the classroom while at Symbiosis Law School. My batch at Symbi was the last to have a relatively un-demanding curriculum, with no internal assessment or other curricular activities. This gave us freedom, and incentive to engage in a number of co-curricular and extra-curricular activities and competitions in Symbi and other colleges. Many of the now established cells, and student activities were being created by our seniors, and some of us as well, and being part of that process was a great learning experience. It’s heartening to see how students have grown these student cells and activities well beyond what we had foreseen or even hoped. These activities aroused a sense of kinship amongst students, creating bonds as strong as those of the dear friends we made for life during these years. Symbi, in essence, was a sanctuary for every kind of student – if you sought it, you would find it. If pure academics was your interest, you’d find support. If championing human rights was your calling, it would be nurtured. If not (purely) law, but music or sports was your passion, you’d find cheering encouragement. My peers and I are all testament to this.

     

    Having been a consistently good student in your college days, how important is doing well in academics?

    I’ll be adding no new insights in saying that it’s fairly important, and at the same time, I cannot take the truth away from that. It shows to someone assessing you that you have caliber – that you’re intelligent, and / or  you’re focussed, and /r you’re hard-working. While it may help in securing job interviews, doing well in the legal profession barely has any connection to academic performance. Once you find your focus and passion, you’re bound to do well, regardless of what you did or scored during law school.

    How have your roles in positions of leadership shaped you as a lawyer?

    (Anandh has held several leadership positions during his time at college and served as the Editor of his student law review.)

    In college, and the “real world” after that, you brush your shoulders and work with a number of people. The positions I held during law school (for instance in the cabinet of the Student Council, editor of the student law review and the newsletter, or heading committees in the college festival) taught me how to work in a team and head them. They also taught me empathy and respect for others, which we all could use more of. Individually, each of these positions also honed other skills that have held me in good stead during my time in New York and San Francisco, and continue to aid me now.

     

    Working as an Associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co., what does a working day look like? 

    Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas is a highly competitive Tier 1 firm in India. Big law firms (with significant numbers of attorneys) usually attract large clients, who have work that can only be handled by well resourced teams. That’s the nature of the beast. The Competition team at SAM, which I’m a part of, is no exception. Both, on the merger control, and antitrust (behavioral) aspects of competition law, the team is usually grappling with some of the largest transactions and complex cases in India. With jurisprudence slowly developing in the law, it’s an exciting time to be a part of the practice. This excitement and the endless opportunity to learn with these cases and transactions, is what keeps one ticking through the pressures of the tight deadlines and long work hours. The range of tasks in my practice, would include drafting written submissions and pleadings before the Competition Commission of India, the Appellate Tribunal, the High Courts and the Supreme Court, corresponding and liaising with the Commission on ongoing cases, preparing notification forms for merger approvals, providing advice to clients (oral and written), drafting opinions, among other things. There’s always enough to keep you on your toes.

     

    Tell us about your other interests and how you manage to maintain a work-life balance?

    My interests are as varied as they can be – among other things, I love riding motorcycles and meddling with them, reading, experimenting with my DSLR, playing music, building and listening to my record collection, watching gigs/concerts, and the outdoors generally.

    Honestly, I’m still figuring out what an ideal work-life balance would be in law practice. Many at the top of the legal profession have told me that the balance has to be foregone in the favour of work, and I find that happening during the phases when I’m driven and focused on my goals. But pursuing my other interests is critical, as they help me unwind and settle myself. Whatever windows of time I get, I try to fit these things in. As important, of course, is spending time loved ones and friends – who will always be an essential support system in our often demanding world.

     

    What advice would you give budding lawyers on choosing the right internships?

    (Anandh has an impressive array of internships at top law firms and judicial clerkships including Lakshmi Kumaran & Sridharan, J. Sagar Associates, Anand & Anand etc.)

    There are a lucky few who, from the first couple years of law school, are focused about what they intend to do professionally. For the rest of us, I think it is best to have varied experiences through varied internships to be able to make a more informed choice about the professional life after college. Whether you get the internships through dogged persistence, through winning moots and competitions, through connections, or just random luck, what’s most important is that you make the most of what that organisation and the people in it have to offer. You learn very little law during these short one-month stints, but it’s your ability to learn and absorb working skills, and engage with people in a professional environment that are the real take-aways. As an associate, I find myself well more impressed by an intern’s ability to understand, apply herself, and complete the task, than by mere knowledge of the subject matter.

    Like having a good academic record, having the “right” internships too may help getting a law school student noticed, but I can confidently say that more than simply the name of the law firm, company or advocate, it’s your ability to articulate what you’ve learnt in those internships that matters.

     

    As a former intern who then took up the position of an Associate at LKS, what would your suggestion be to law students aspiring to receive a PPO? 

    Students usually give their best during internships – often because of the pressure to get a job at/with a “prestigious” law firm / company / advocate, but not as often because they have a true or deep interest in the subject area. If you have that passion or deep interest, or even curiosity about an area of law, you’re amicable to work with, and you’re hard working, you’ll get noticed by the organisation you’re interning with. Students should be driven by their interest, and not by the tag of an Amarchand, AZB, or an LKS, however appealing it may be.

    I enjoyed my internship at LKS in the Customs team, as I found the law to be at the intersection of regulation, fiscal and economic (and sometimes social) policy, and interpretation of statutes – all things I had, and continue to have a keen interest in. I had interned with a partner in the Customs team, Mr. Amit Jain, and after applying and securing an interview, I joined as an Associate under the same partner, working primarily with excise laws. My time at LKS laid an extremely well nurtured and strong foundation for me in the legal profession, under the guidance of Mr. Amit Jain, Mr. B.L. Narasimhan, and of course, Mr. Lakshmi Kumaran, who is an utter perfectionist.

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LLM?

    I had spoken to people who had completed their LL.M.s abroad, and the academic and cultural experience they described fascinated me – enough that I applied to and got through a couple of London Universities in my final year at Symbi without much of an idea about why or what area I wanted to pursue my LL.M. in. I dropped the idea then, but over the next year or so, the reasons crystallized – I wanted a world-class academic atmosphere, a window to get some work experience abroad, and focus on subjects I had interests in. A mentor told me that the curriculum in the U.S. is well more demanding, and I saw that as a good opportunity to push myself. I picked New York University in the end because of its location and the variety of courses it offered.

    It is important to be clear about why you want to pursue your masters, i.e., what you seek to achieve from it, because after all, it’s a huge investment in time and money. Whilst the LL.M. opens large windows of opportunities, mismatched expectations may demoralise or frustrate you. The question of at what stage one should pursue an LL.M. is one of the most important considerations. If it’s only an academic experience you seek, to satiate interest and curiosity in certain areas, there’s no right or wrong time. But if you’re looking to use the LL.M. to find work abroad, having a minimum of three to four years of post qualification experience (PQE) by the time you join the program is critical. When employers (including law firms) look at LL.M. students, they look for candidates with substantial work experience in a certain area. I noticed that Indians pursuing LL.Ms abroad usually the youngest, with under two years PQE, often putting us in a disadvantaged position – too inexperienced for a masters candidate, and not exactly a fresh graduate either. Also, finding a job after switching practice areas through the LL.M. is always a gamble, especially if your previous work experience does not give you demonstrably transferable knowledge or skill sets.

    But regardless of the above, I would always encourage people to pursue an LL.M. from a good global university, because of the intangible benefits you gain – forging a wide network of professional and personal connections; a chance to really open your world-view, and to learn about other jurisdictions, i.e., a cross-border legal and cultural learning; an impressive tag on your resume (which demonstrates your commitment and focus to a certain practice area), and a brilliant conversation starter. And in our profession, networking and conversations can make all the difference.  

     

    Was the academic environment at NYU very rigorous?

    I would say, it certainly was. Even if you want to be a passive observer (which is unlikely), you’ll have to finish your readings in advance of the class, else you’d not follow anything. That’s the minimum that’s expected. Whilst in the US, you’d primarily be taking your classes along with 2nd and 3rd year J.D. (LL.B.) students, it doesn’t take away from the fact that readings are slightly advanced (or at least different from what we’re used to) or are voluminous. Unlike the UK (and maybe other countries), you will be taking more than four modules / courses in an American LL.M. through the year, translating to two to three classes each day. If you’re really trying to absorb the material, that’s a lot to read. More often than not, I was in the library or in the dorm till the wee hours of the morning, finishing the readings.

    The position of teaching assistant was after I had completed the LL.M. and given the New York Bar examination, so it, thankfully, didn’t affect my academic year. But one can take up a position of research assistant, which, depending on the professor, can also be a demanding task. On the up-side, these positions pay a decent pocket money – enough to sustain some material or culinary indulgences.

     

    What are the things you enjoyed the most about studying at NYU?

    Three things come to mind. First, the academic challenge – learning and grappling with new or complex ideas, in what was usually a socratic class, gave me a rush. Second, – the access to a wide network of professionals and academics – given its location in New York, I had access, through professors and guest lectures, to academics and professionals engaged in important legal developments as they occurred. Some of these people were living legends. Third, the excellent cross-cultural experience – I got a chance to learn about so many languages, legal systems and political views, food and beverages from different parts of the world, and have made friends and connections worth a lifetime.

     

    How did you prepare for the New York Bar Examination?

    You begin preparing for the Bar almost immediately after you finish graduation – meaning, two whole months of preparations. Almost all students who take (and pass) the bar exams in the US enroll with private tutorials (similar to LST that we have for law school entrances) such Kaplan, or Barbri. These tutorials provide the study material, have live or pre-recorded classes, have excellent online test-taking software, and practically have the entire two months planned for you, including the daily study routines.

    While this makes it sound easy, it wasn’t. A candidate has to learn thirteen new sets of laws within the short span of two months, and be able to not only answer reasonably tough multiple choice questions, but be able to apply the law in fact-pattern based essays. Specially for someone from a common law jurisdiction, memorising contract and tort law principles was confusing – I had some vague recollection of Indian and British contract and tort law principles in my head. I then had to forget all this, and substitute it with the US federal as well as New York state principles on these subjects. Four sets of rules all jumbled up in the head. The schedule set out by the tutorials required over ten hour work-days (including weekends), with all of it as voluntary self-study. The exam itself is a bombardment of six hours of writing / testing over two consecutive days. The Bar exam is, then, more a test of commitment and discipline, than intelligence or aptitude. If you have that resolve, you’ll pass. I managed to muster some up resolve, and was able to enjoy every other weekend as well, to keep my sanity.  

     

    Being eligible to practice in both India and US after clearing the bar exams in India and New York, how do see your career path a few years ahead? 

    While in the US, I was very keen on getting work experience there. I found the working style, the court and regulatory systems extremely structured and fascinating, and was very keen on engaging with it and learning from it. There was a lot to imbibe and internalise. I was looking to work in Europe as well. But even then, I always had a plan to come back to India. Though I was looking forward to the challenge of setting up my legal career in a new jurisdiction, I always knew that I could do my best with home-ground advantage – with readier access to professional networks.

     

    How did you go about securing internships in the US?

    (Anandh has been a judicial intern at various courts like the New York Supreme Court and the California Court of Appeal.)

    My first internship with Justice Saliann Scarpulla of the New York Supreme Court, was indirectly through Ms. Shashikala Gurpur, Director of Symbi. She had introduced me to Judge Fern Fisher (Deputy Chief Administrative Judge, New York Supreme Court) and Fred Rooney (associated with City University of New York) – both amazing people who guided me through my time in the US. Judge Fisher and Fred Rooney have visited Symbi on multiple ocassions. They in turn put me in touch with Judge Scarpulla. I am deeply grateful to all of them. The second internship with Justice Stuart Pollak of the California Court of Appeal, was one through one of the 50+ applications I had sent out to judges across the east and west coasts of the US.

    The internship with Justice Scarpulla was during my second semester at NYU, and the one with Justice Pollak was after the LL.M., in San Francisco. In these internships, I had the opportunity observe the workings of two of the most sophisticated and largest state court systems in the US. I researched on some novel propositions of law, and even wrote opinions (judgments). Four words to describe the court proceedings and systems there – structured, purposeful, ordered, and efficient. The appellate court oral arguments were very similar to moot court competitions! The courts have administrative wings that publish guides prescribing standards of review for every kind of question of law or fact that may be brought in appeal. It was an absolute pleasure to work in these courts, under the guidance of two excellent judges and supporting attorneys and secretaries.  

     

    As someone who has taken lectures on competition law, taxation and political theory at SLS, would you consider a shift into full-time academia in the future?

    There’s a part of me that loves to share what I have learnt – to share knowledge, and to try understand something completely. So, I do enjoy the odd chance I get to teach. At this stage, I am not sure whether I would like to shift full-time to academia, but I would surely love to be continually involved with law schools, especially my alma mater, whether in Pune, Noida or in Hyderabad. I strongly believe in alumni giving back to their alma mater. We owe it to them, at some level. More importantly, this is the way we can bridge the gap between current legal practice and the law schools, a gap that students complain about.

    Finally, what would you like to say to our readers who are mostly budding lawyers, as a parting note?

    Justice Therese Stewart, a fascinating person, gave me some advice based on her own life, and I think it’s very relevant for young lawyers and law students. She told me it was all right for a young lawyer not to be working in the practice area that is connected to her ultimate goal or passion from the very beginning of her career. What’s more important, she said, is to work hard in the first few years in environments and organisations that hone your skills and make you a great lawyer. This would enable you to be effective when you do move toward your goal, through your legal career. I would only add that it’s very important to find the thing that deeply interests you – whether strictly connected to law practice or not – and not just follow or stray into career paths because “that’s what people do”.

  • Sudeshna Chatterjee, Legal Head-Asia, Aggreko, on business law, studying in Singapore, and her experience

    Sudeshna Chatterjee, Legal Head-Asia, Aggreko, on business law, studying in Singapore, and her experience

    Sudeshna Chatterjee graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad, in 2005. After successful stints with Luthra and Luthra, and Sarthak Advocate and Solicitors, she went on to pursue her Masters at NYU@NUS, with a focus on corporate and financial services law. She’s currently Head of Legal-Asia, at Aggreko’s Power Solutions business, where she handles general corporate advisory, assists in setting up corporate structures, assists in cross border transactions, acts as lead negotiator and assists in M&A activities.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at NALSAR
    • Her experience in business law
    • Studying at NYU@NUS

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a business lawyer with a commercial bent of mind. This entails that I wear multiple hats at all times – when I am evaluating and mitigating risks, I put on the lawyer’s hat and when I am taking a call on whether to go ahead with a transaction or not, despite the risks involved, I put on the business/ commercial hat.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My father had studied law, but he never practiced it. Being an avid reader I discovered Erle Stanley Gardner’s Perry Mason, Harper Lee’s Atticus Finch and John Grisham quite early on, and as clichéd as it might sound, these piqued my interest in law. When I wanted to sit for the entrance exams (there was no CLAT at that time) there was an initial resistance from my parents. The preferred choice for a majority of students (and more importantly, the parents) in Bengal at the turn of the century was to undertake further studies in engineering or medicines only; anything other than these subjects was an anathema. However, I managed to convince my parents and joined NALSAR.

     

    Tell us something about your time at NALSAR.

    I was part of the third batch of students at NALSAR, which was a new and upcoming university in the year 2000. Coming from Bengal and Bengali speaking culture, the cosmopolitan culture of NALSAR was quite a bit to take in at the beginning. However my seniors were lovely and adjusting to the new environment was no trouble. I enjoyed my classes (which used to be conducted then within the girls and boys hostels as the academic blocks had not yet come up until late 2001) – especially criminal law, intellectual property law, corporate law, administrative law and transfer of property. The class of 2005 had a healthy dose of scepticism coupled with an unquenchable appetite for questioning, which was an interesting mix to be a part of.

    There were not too many activities apart from moot courts during my undergraduate years. I attended a couple of inter-class moots and quickly realised that I was not interested in moots. I enjoyed debating in school; however there were no formalised debating societies at that time. Sometimes a few of us would debate on topics relevant to the prevailing times. I also wrote a column for ‘Edict’ which was a student’s magazine that one of my classmates had started, for a little while. My free time would be spent reading books, listening to music and generally hanging out with my friends.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I undertook a variety of internships while at NALSAR. I appreciated that internships were a way of exploring my interests.

    I took an internship with Mobile Creches, Delhi where I got to work with property developers and builders providing safe creches for the children of construction workers. I also took an internship at the National Innovation Foundation, Ahmedabad under the auspices of Professor Anil Gupta where I worked with grass-root innovators. Both these internships satisfied my desire to give back to the society and were enriching experiences.

    I took a number of internships with Senior Advocate, Mr. Dinesh Mathur, who practiced criminal law at the High Court of Delhi. During those internships I learnt that criminal law was not only about the victim, as was taught in law school. The first duty and obligation of the lawyer is towards the client, who may or may not have been the victim. This shift in paradigm from victim-oriented jurisprudence to perpetrator-oriented jurisprudence made me appreciate criminal law and the criminal justice system.

    Securing internships at law firms was very difficult for me because I neither had the network nor the clout. Further, NALSAR did not then have a robust internship committee that they have now. I managed to get an internship with Khaitan & Co., Kolkata after multiple follow ups. At Khaitan, I worked with the litigation practice and assisted with research, drafting petitions and affidavits. Despite working with the litigation team and spending time in court, this internship gave me a flavour of what it would be like to work in a law firm.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    It is always good to have more choices rather than few, however if the variety of choices leads to procrastination, then such choices are more detrimental than useful. The best way to go about, in my opinion, is to do proper research, speak to seniors, friends, mentors, and whoever the person can rely on, to gather information. There is no easy answer for this and everyone must find their own equilibrium. The ultimate choice has to be their own. It may or may not be the correct choice – however it is better to have tried and failed, than never to have tried. I would say, don’t be afraid to explore. No amount of knowledge or experience ever goes waste, although the benefits may not be apparent immediately.

    Not everyone has the same circumstances, so the parameters for considering next steps after graduation may vary depending on that. Some prefer to join the profession, through campus recruitment into law firms, with senior advocates or in-house, whereas some prefer to finish their higher education and dive into a masters’ degree immediately. My suggestion to law graduates would be to consider what they want to do in the long run. I appreciate that many may not be very clear about their choices and in such circumstances, it is always more fruitful to practise for some time before going in for higher studies. This allows for more mature understanding of specialised subjects when they go for their masters’ degree.

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Luthra & Luthra.

    On the first day of campus recruitment I had two offers, one from Luthra & Luthra, Delhi and the other from one of the big four accountancy firms at their office in Bangalore. While considering which offer I accepted, I bore in mind that L&L may be a better fit as it was a full service law firm and I would have the opportunity to explore different practice areas. With the other offer, I would have been ‘pigeonholed’ as a tax practitioner (which I was not convinced that I would enjoy). The availability of choice tipped my decision to accept the offer from L&L.

    In retrospect, joining L&L was the best decision that I made. It is a great place to work in and Mr. Luthra and the team of senior partners bring passion and excitement to work. I had wonderful colleagues and work was exciting and challenging. I started with the trade law practice, followed by working with the intellectual property team and finally settling into the securities and equity capital markets practise at L&L. I was given the choice of moving teams so that I could explore what made me tick. I have always been grateful to Mr. Luthra for that.

     

    What was the application process like for the NYU/NUS programme? 

    The application process for NYU@NUS program is just like any other masters’ degree program with requirements such as statement of purposes, academic and work references and a specific write up about oneself other than the statement of purpose to show background and whether suitable for scholarship. There were a number of documents (educational qualifications, various certifications etc.) that was required to be submitted along with the applications. The administration at NALSAR was very helpful in getting the documents authenticated and sent across for submission purposes.

    During the final year at NALSAR I had applied and had been offered a seat at the Queen Mary University of London, however I could not take it up at that time. Doing a masters’ degree was always on the cards and I just had to find a suitable time to pursue it. I had relocated to Singapore for personal reasons and thought that the time was ripe to undertake the masters’ degree. However I was not very keen to move out of Singapore to pursue higher education. I was considering NUS but when I found out about the dual degree that was offered by NUS@NUS, the option to undertake the degree from two prestigious universities that are NYU and NUS made more sense. The courses panned from complex securities law to challenging international law, to oversight of business laws, to anti-corruption laws, taught by illustrious professors from both NYU and NUS, hence there was no reason for me to look further than this degree.

     

    What was the experience at NYU@NUS like?

    NYU@NUS was a great experience – enriching and fulfilling, both from an education and a personal perspective. The class had all of 30 plus students from eighteen countries, so there was a diverse bunch of students with varied legal education and work experiences.  The term started in May, the first three months were NYU subjects and the faculty flew into Singapore for intensive classes. The NUS session started in August followed by NYU session in December and ended with a mixed-bag of NYU and NUS classes between January and March. The NYU@NUS course allowed students to top-load credits so a couple of students finished their entire NYU and NUS credits by December.

    It was an amazing experience to match wits from lawyers around the world, spend nights in the study rooms and at the library, work on multi-party negotiations which were taped and dissect performances thereafter, paper submissions, presentations etc. The list is endless. It really tested my time management and prioritizing skills to the fullest, not to mention the patience it took to concentrate on studies and not get distracted.

    It will be completely unfair to just speak of the education and not mention the personal relationships that I forged in less than a year. I now have friends all over the world – from places like Ecuador, Bogota, Berlin to Zurich, Bologna, Paris and Quebec. I think these friendships have been enriching and have added to the experience that is NYU@NUS.

     

    How did you come to take up a position with Aggreko?

    Aggreko happened while I was still undergoing my masters’ degree. I was approached by a legal recruiter in Singapore. I had never worked in-house; hence I was circumspect about the role and its requirements. However as I still had about three months left to complete the course, I thought it would be a good experience to give it a try and if it did not fit, I would still have time to explore other opportunities in Singapore.

    Working with Aggreko has been very satisfying. Since I was a securities lawyer and had not worked in projects, it was very important for me to understand the product of the company, the space it functioned in and what was required of me on a day to day basis.  This entailed a detailed learning on the technical aspects which brought me up to speed with generators, load banks, temperature control equipment, how they function, what are the risks in the business and how to mitigate them. Educating myself on the legislative framework in the region was relatively easier.

    There has not been a single dull day at Aggreko. I have advised on tenders, negotiated multi-million dollar contracts and been part of events like the Formula 1, Cricket World Cup and the Olympics, where Aggreko provides primary or standby power. I have also undertaken compliance checks to ensure that the region is always ethically and legally compliant. The thing that I enjoy the most is seeing a transaction from the beginning to the end. I get involved at the start of a deal and handhold the relevant stakeholders until the deal is done – providing legal and commercial advice along the way. It is important to note here that being an in-house lawyer, I am required to provide legal advice without caveats – this requires clarity of thought and a complete appreciation of the risks involved and ways to mitigate it. This is both challenging and invigorating.

     

    As the Head of Legal – Asia at Aggreko, what does a typical working day look like for you?

    Aggreko is a London-listed FTSE 250 company and the world’s largest temporary power provider. As its Head of Legal for the Asia region, I am responsible for about fifteen countries in the region. I travel quite a bit, depending on the business requirement to support the power project team with negotiations and tenders. Unless I am travelling, my typical day would start with a brief meeting with my team where we would take stock of the deliverables for the day including but not limited to contracts, standard documents, interpretation of internal policies and negotiations. Since the business involves temporary power, some of the power requirements are on an emergency basis, thus requiring agility and quick turnaround of documents to ensure that the business requirements can be satisfied.

    I also get involved with the commercial discussions for various power projects that we set up for public utilities. This includes liaising with the finance and the senior management teams to prepare white papers, project risk summaries and discussions on commercial models to understand the viability of such projects. Unlike popular belief, my work does not have fixed 9AM-5PM timing because emergency power could be required anytime. Hence there are days when conference calls and turnaround of documents may go on until the wee hours in the morning.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    Although there are no fixed parameters to choose the projects that I work on, I usually end up working on tenders and multi-party negotiations. I have a lean but competent team which takes care of daily queries, standard contract reviews, negotiations, due diligences, among others, which enables me to focus on the challenging negotiations and the complex tenders.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you are faced working heading Aggreko Legal? 

    There have been challenges and opportunities both while heading Aggreko’s legal department in Asia.

    Some of the challenges are/have been:

    1. Working in-house is different from working in a law firm. One needs to first reorient oneself that instead of being the revenue centre, they are now the cost centre. This means that budget is important and I do not have the luxury of engaging external counsels on every deal that I undertake;
    2. Culturally each of the countries where I advise in is different. This requires me to be sensitive towards different sets of cultures, protocols and customs;
    3. Time zones and language: travelling across several countries on a frequent basis means that I have to constantly make adjustments to suit time and language differences.

    The opportunities provided by these hurdles are:

    1. Undertake in-depth commercial analysis of the business in order to provide innovative solutions and negotiate contracts successfully;
    2. Working in developing countries where power is scarce and then being able to deliver power in record time gives immense satisfaction, high profile events like the Formula 1, Commonwealth Games, World Cup and the Olympics adds to the excitement.

    The trick of sustaining oneself in this dynamic work environment is to understand what I can control and take charge of it and to let go of things I cannot control. I have a clear understanding of the deliverables from my stakeholders and I never agree on unreasonable timelines as that builds false expectations. This allows me to prioritize the work and ensures that my stakeholders know what they can expect from me and my team. This also ensures that I am not under pressure for things that are not under my control.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I am a meticulous planner where my work is concerned, hence I am more proactive than reactive in the work I do. This allows me time and flexibility to dabble in my new-found passion for photography. I travel quite a bit in and around the region, so I carry my camera along with me and have started photo-blogging the places I visit through Instagram. Further, my kindle is my new best friend and allows me to be on top of my reading lists of thrillers. I am also regularly involved with the Bengali Association of Singapore and its various cultural activities.

     

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Read, observe, practice and read some more. Speak to law firms, legal contacts, discuss, subscribe to legal tools and then read some more. As I stated earlier – not knowing is not an excuse.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I have the same advice for aspiring lawyers and to practicing lawyers – ‘stay hungry, stay foolish’. Our core skills as lawyers never change. Changing ones area of practice is only difficult if you don’t have faith in your abilities to re-invent yourself.

     

  • Aditi Ranjan Ojha, Legal Manager, NDTV, on IPR enforcement, litigation, and her diverse experience

    Aditi Ranjan Ojha graduated from Symbiosis Law University, in 2009. She went on to work for Luthra and Luthra as Associate for four years before venturing into independent practice at the Delhi High Court. She is currently Legal Manager at NDTV, where her role entails IPR enforcement.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her experience in litigation
    • Her role at NDTV
    • Striking work-life balance

     

    What would you like to say to our readers in the manner of an introduction of yourself?

    I am the first born to a bureaucratic father and a home maker mother. I did my schooling from Delhi (DPS Mathura Road) in the humanities since I was never interested in science and commerce. Thereafter, I did one year of history honours from Daulat Ram College, North campus. In the interim I gave my law entrance exams and joined Symbiosis Law School, Pune. I graduated in 2009 and joined Luthra and Luthra law offices, New Delhi in 2010. Was working there till December 2014. In 2015 I joined NDTV and I am presently here as Manager-Legal.

     

    What motivated you to take up law as your choice of career? 

    Law was by choice. I was the first one from my family, however there were no challenges as such. Though there were times when what to do and in what manner was a task, however people around me were very supportive especially my parents.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    I have done good amount work for some local charitable institutions in Pune outside college, specially working with underprivileged children, Kashmiri immigrants, and sex workers. Even during my short college stint at North Campus I was part of an NGO called Hriday. I have also participated for legal aid services through college.

    In my understanding co-curricular activities can teach you the practicality of the situation which otherwise a college lecture or the lecturer may not be in a position to teach.

     

    What kind of activities did you undertake in law school that helped you nurture this interest in litigation?

    My interest in litigation was there even before I started studying. I have been a decent orator throughout my student life which also played a pivotal role. Law school nurtured my strengths.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Largely I had interned with Luthra & Luthra Law offices only. One of the few thing colleges don’t teach is the manner of drafting. I learned all minor drafting work in Luthras. Also since Luthra offer services in all spheres of law, as interns we were given lot of research work from all legal sectors. These further strengthen overall knowledge.

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    The transition has not been smooth but has been very interesting. I had to put in double the effort as a lawyer in the beginning. Handling clients  and meeting deadlines were not taught in college. Pun intended ;-).  However this also helped me to understand my weaknesses and gave me time to work on it. As a student our prime concern was to clear the papers. Understanding the nature of work, how to interpret law and use it accordingly was taught only once I started working.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at the Luthra and Luthra. 

    Luthra’s was a wonderful experience both professionally and personally. Since I joined freshly after college, I had no practical experience of the manner in which court functions, how to present an argument or even for that matter how to take an adjournment etc. Luthras gave me the confidence to appear in court. Unlike other law firms Luthra and Luthra believed in crediting junior for their achievements and that was a bonus factor. We were at liberty to do work at our own pace (till my stint their) and this gave us time to analyse things at depth.

     

    In deciding between Corporate and Litigation practice, what are the parameters that you considered? 

    I have always been interested in wearing the black gown, to voice my opinion, to fight against injustice and since childhood court rooms fascinated me. Corporate was never my choice. Being born in the family of bureaucrats I was always fascinated with litigation. To watch my father discuss provisions of criminal law made me inclined towards litigation all the more.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on? 

    There are no specific parameters. I usually try to do justice with whatever comes my way. I have done matters within different spheres in  litigation as well. From matrimonial matters to copyrights to negotiable instruments I have tried my hand at everything. I believe that one or two matter or ‘interesting cases’ as you have put cannot build your career. I am the kind of person who measures career graph not only through professional growth but also personal growth. One needs to have not only the professional aptitude but also an attitude. Attitude for a litigation lawyer works very well. And by attitude I don’t mean anything negative.

     

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    I read legal journals regularly. Working in a media agency has also played a pivotal role. I now have four lawyers in my immediate family and so they keep me updated at times by choice at times forcefully.

     

    What books, judgements that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    Philosophy is in itself very vast and talking of legal philosophy being shaped up by way of book and judgments is not just and proper. I am still reading, understanding and still shaping it.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    No matter how progressive we become Indian mind-set is still patriarchal. Harassment at workplace is one such cause which I feel strongly about. By harassment I not only mean physical, but mental and emotional as well. I am yet trying my best to work towards it.

               

    As the Legal Manager at NDTV, what does a typical working day look like for you?

    Working in NDTV is exciting and challenging as well. From attending court matters to analysing proposals and moulding them into agreements, I undertake whatever is assigned to me. NDTV is not only into news broadcasting but also indulges in lifestyle channels to creating web platforms for various services. So the nature of work is diverse.

     

    What does the scope of work you undertake include at NDTV Legal? 

    I am dealing with court matters which are inclusive of defamation, copyright, telecom disputes etc. I also handle agreements such as service, media collaboration agreement, etc. The working atmosphere is very nice. People in NDTV are really helpful and supportive, specially my team. Had it not been for my team I wouldn’t have survived here.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I write poems and also sing, though I am not a trained singer. I do as I am passionate. I also like reading.

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    I live each day as it comes. So have never really thought about where will life take me five years from now. I would rather give 100% at present to whatever I am indulging in professionally. This I think would pave a smooth way for the times to come.

     

  • Vijay Kumar Makyam, IPR Attorney, I-WIN IP Services, on IPR in India, his diverse experience, and plans for the future

    Vijay Kumar Makyam, IPR Attorney, I-WIN IP Services, on IPR in India, his diverse experience, and plans for the future

    Vijay Kumar Makyam graduated in law from Osmania University in 2003. He then went on to pursue his Masters in 2013, with a specialisation in Alternative Disputes Resolution. He has been a Senior Trademark Analyst at Brain League IP Services, and Guest Faculty at National Institute of Pharmaceutical Education and Research, Hyderabad. He is founding member at I-WIN IP Services and IP Markets. where he heads Patents and Trademarks. His role entails handling  procedures like registration of copyrights and trademarks, filing patent application and processing in India and coordinating filing and prosecution at USPTO, European Patent office, etc.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being an IPR lawyer
    • His teaching experience
    • Plans for the future

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? 

    I would like to introduce myself as IPR Attorney; Apart from registered Patent and Trademark Agent, I am a litigating lawyer, appearing for my clients in District Courts and High Courts in various parts of the country.  Yes, my education went into different streams like wind blow, I have pursued the courses as per the need of hour. Apart from the regular main stream education, I have also pursued P.G. Diploma in Intellectual Property Rights from NLSIU, Bangalore and computer skills in that I have done PG Diploma in Computer Applications, Diploma Client Server Applications, Diploma in Desk Top Publishing. Someone has rightly quoted “Education moulds the person”, my personality and career has certainly been moulded by Education. In simple words whatever I am today is because of the education I pursued.  When I was studying B. Com, I was unhappy in with the fact that I am not going through a professional course and that prompted me to pursue LL.B., since I am qualified only for Law; Medicine and Engineering were not possible because of my financial conditions existing then and my parents wanted me discontinue education to support the family.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I am first generation lawyer in my family. As I earlier answered, it is only that I wanted to pursue some professional course, I pursed LL.B., as otherwise I was more interested in Computer Science and that is the reason why I did M.S. in Computer Science. Though I had a law degree, I did not want to practice law, since I believed in a myth that lawyers are liars and I would have to support false cases largely. I was also under an impression that truth followers never knock the doors of the court. Thus, I was looking for some chamber practice. Intellectual Property Rights protection was an area I felt was perfect for such chamber practice and I Registered myself initially as Trademark Agent. There was no guidance to me, since no one in our family were lawyers. So, I was guided by my law school seniors and professors in choosing this career.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    Yes, I have attended about eight National Moot Court Competitions; all of which enhanced my research skills. We were unaware of internship programs those days and as such I have not taken up any internship. However, I believe Moot Court Competitions coupled with Internship programs can provide real time experiences to the law students.

     

    What triggered your interest in IPR law?

    I attended the 5th Raj Anand Moot National Court Competition, which introduced IPR Subject to me, which until then I was unaware about. Thereafter I attended several national seminars on IPR topics and most importantly my law school super senior who attended FPLC for his LL.M encouraged me to get into IPR.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    As I stated earlier, we were unaware of the internship programs during our law school days. So, I did not get an opportunity to work as an intern. However, the first firm where I worked is a start-up IPR Firm, where all the processes are established from the scratch and the team specifically is quite qualified that helped us in brain storming sessions and coming up with greater ideas for providing specialized services in IPR.

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    Yes, it was huge difference. From novice to an expert lawyer.  Five important things that shaped me as a good lawyer today are 1) Language 2) Vocabulary 3) Presentation 4) Dressing sense 5) Spontaneity. These five aspects I have not learned in law school, but during my practice.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at the Brain league IP Services. 

    Yes, Brain League gave me an opportunity to build my career as it stands today. Brain League was one of the early IPR Start-ups in India, at that point of time we had no clients interested in the services that we offered, services such as IP Audits, IP Valuation, IP Licensing, IP Monetization etc., since IPR itself was new to Indian Society at that time. So, Brain League chose IP Training as its main stream services and slowly developed various services which helped them in creating a market for their core services being IP Audits, IP Valuation, IP Licensing, IP Monetization. I played an important role in implementing Brain League’s Services as we were very small team, we had no restrictions on what work we took up. I was also involved in administration, marketing of Brain League services which helped me setting up my own firm latter.

     

    Having worked at I-WIN IP Services for over eight years, how would you describe your work experience there? 

    I-WIN IP Services was started in the year 2009, we were three team members when we started I-WIN IP Services, Being the founder I had to establish all the procedures in I-WIN IP Services, my work experience at Brain League helped me a lot in doing so. I enjoyed working on Trademark Opposition proceedings, participating invention disclosure meeting with the clients and implementing Training programs.

     

    As a guest faculty at NIMSME, how do you find the Indian legal education standards? 

    At NIMSME, I teach international students on Indian IPR as well as entrepreneurs on effectively protecting and managing their IPRs. The difference I can point out in regular academics is that they lack practical exposure. The law Professors are not practitioners as such they will not interpret the law the way practitioner interpret for the benefit of their clients. I have seen couple of law professors updating themselves by reading law journals or taking inputs from practising lawyers; however, that will not create the knowledge for dissemination to students. Further Indian legal education need to be streamlined from text book oriented education to practical approaches. While teaching at NIMSME I provide lot of practical examples that my clients faced and overcome; this makes the audience interesting then reading a provision of law and citing an example.

     

    What is the academic background and qualification necessary to become a patent agent in India?

    Section 127 of Patent Act, 1970 prescribes any Science or Engineering degree to be qualified to take up Patent Agent Examination. This is precisely why I did M.S. in computer Science. I was into IPR Domain from long time and I was taking assistance of Registered Patent Agent for filing Patent Applications of my firm. Thus, I was determined to become a Patent Agent and pursed M.S. Computer Science before taking up Patent Agent Examination.

     

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Technology helped me a lot in keeping myself updated. I browse through blogs, youtube videos and Whatsapp Groups to keep me updated with the latest updates. Seminar and Training programs that I frequently attend will help me to keep myself updating updated. Further, the cases I handle will also make me to read on particular provision of the law and brain storm on those specific topics. Finally our interns also contribute to my knowledge.   

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    The knowledge and awareness on IPR is still quite low in Indian Society as well as in lower courts judiciary. There had been occasions when the lower Court Judges were not even aware of what I was arguing while handling an IPR Matter. It was left up to us to educate them initially in the subject then latter put forth the factual positions to obtain an order.

     

    As the Senior IP Analyst at IP Markets, what does a typical working day look like for you?

    I need to attend Courts every day. By 9:30 AM I shall be in office picking up the bundles necessary for the day in various courts, by 10.30 we will be in the Court Rooms, sometimes we need to await for our case to be called or else we shall advance our arguments and return to office by 2:30 PM and work on next day cases either research on a particular point of law or drafting affidavits, counters and written arguments etc., till evening 5:30 PM; post which we will have couple of client meeting till 8:30 or 9.30 PM to conclude the day.

     

    How do you feel about the present IPR regime in India? 

    IPR is still at a nascent stage in India; this is primarily because Indian system has not been developed to adapt to the IPR regime. Thank fully the National IPR Policy and its one of the objective to create IPR Awareness in the country and is helping India to shape its IPR Regime. To the extent of legislations, yes, we are sought of created enough legislations, however, we still need advanced law to tackle various situations prevailing in Information Technology, Biotechnology, Nanotechnology etc., that apart we are still at a novice stages in IP Licensing, Technology commercialization, IP Insurance etc., are concerned. Competition law, Standards in Patent System etc., are few concerns we are trying to address. However, still in most of the Indian industry IPR Centres are considered as cost centres than Innovation hubs. We don’t have proper mechanism where we can connect the innovation to industry in proper line; our academic research is all going in drain or exported to foreign countries. We don’t have specialized laws tackling knowledge exports. In conclusion I would say that we have just begun our journey in the IPR Regime and there is a long way to go.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on? 

    We specifically concentrate on all or any IPR issues. Thus our parameters is to choose only those projects wherein some IP issue is involved. Given the present team size we have no specific body constituted for specific work; I also believe when the team size is small every one gets to learn everything. One interesting case we handled for one of our Pharma Client where two big MNC companies fighting Patent Infringement suit in US Delware Court obtained stipulated protected orders and directed a Letter Regoratory,  enforcement letter seeking confidential data of our local pharma client. The Honourable High Court appointment Commissioner and issued enforcement directions. We had to oppose enforcement of the orders because the data was confidential and it cannot be compromised even though there is a court Stipulated Protective Order. This is more so since the information and data is sought from a third party i.e., my client who was not even impleaded in the litigation at US Courts.  

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    In spite of my demanding professional life, I still manage to keep my personal life unaffected and I spend time with my family and friends as and when it is needed. Social networking and Travelling are my other interests. Travelling and exploring new places excite me. My work allows me to travel different places and thus my personal interests are also satisfied with my professional Life.

     

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    I would like to be called one of the top IP Lawyers in the country and I would like to use this position to benefit of my country in protecting its Intellectual Capitalism.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are inclined to developing a proficiency in IP Law?

    There are no short-cuts to the success, Hard work, dedication and using technology to the core are mantras to success; every case gives an opportunity to learn a new aspect; don’t judge yourself to be experts of any subject and further every day reading of the law and the case law will keep you abreast with the latest developments.