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  • Aradhana Bhansali, Partner, Rajani Associates, on real estate law, arbitration, and corporate practice

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  • Simon Z. Rajan, Legal Consultant, Ployprathip International Law Office Co., on working in Thailand, and his diverse experience

    Simon Z. Rajan, Legal Consultant, Ployprathip International Law Office Co., on working in Thailand, and his diverse experience

    Simon Zubin Rajan graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2010. He is currently Legal Consultant at Ployprathip International Law Office Co., Ltd., where he handles Private Equity transactions and Commercial law related assignments. His profile typically entails contract drafting, due diligence, Board of Investment Promotion, Labour Law advisory as well as litigation support.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time in Symbiosis
    • Independent practice in Calcutta
    • The work ethos in Thailand

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Well, when I am not being a suit pursuing some obscure objective or an arguably just cause, I am a novice culinarian and an armchair aviator. I am in awe of the sky and the machines that take to it. I like food, drink and song, preferably with a pinch of class and refinement, but I am not averse to slumming it either, so long as the company and conversation are worth it.

     

    Are you a first-generation lawyer? 

    Is that what we are referred to? A relegation to antiquity of sorts, but I could get used to it. To claim I had a ‘career plan’ would be specious–deceitful even. Like most youth, or at least that self-appointed semi-conscious intelligentsia, I had absolutely no idea where I was going to nor what it was I wanted to do–Diderot may have approved. I seriously doubted that I had a commercially viable skill set at all worth the expense of an education, until the education persuaded me otherwise. In hindsight, the law was something that happened to me. It let me take my time, and more importantly, it let me find myself. I have always had innate interest in human relationships and its constant bed-fellow, conflict. What higher ideal could there be than to resolve this, be it in the boardroom or the bedroom? To my mind the law is a means to an end–to keep or restore balance appeals to my aesthetics and affords me a sense of achievement when the day is won.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law as an undergraduate student at Symbiosis Law School. 

    As with most mishaps, professional or otherwise, expectations weren’t defined prior to embarking on the perilous business of acquiring an education in the law. My time served at Symbiosis Law School was more often than not characterised by a glaring lack of discipline. I should imagine that is probably why the rather feeble imposition of a uniform by the college administration. I did manage to get a word in at the occasional debate and essay not just for myself but for others too. Learning how to swim at the Khadki pool, was a personal epoch on the extra-curricular front, an experience that resonated with my academic struggles when a trusted fellow opined in rather deadpan tones over heavily chlorinated water, “Dude, the lifeguard will throw you out if you don’t learn to swim within the next ten minutes. That, or I will drown you!”

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Internships seemed to reinforce a rather droll suspicion I harbored of the faculty who had the grave misfortune to teach me–that they were dispatching the lot of us to a pre-determined fate ill prepared and none-the-wiser. Poor attempts at levity aside, internships lent much needed perspective to the overly pedantic leanings of legal commentary and misconstrued interpretations. My internships were almost always at the solicitor firms of distinction and repute that crowd Old Post Office Street opposite and adjacent to the High Court at Calcutta, and usually over the holidays as an ostensible ruse to keep me busy and out of trouble.

    My novice years were often enlightening in ways that I never expected. One particular interaction with the venerable R.N. Jhunjhunwalla at Khaitan and Co., Calcutta, during the summer of 2006 if memory serves, is worth the reminiscence. Subsequently after a breathless but convincing spiel as to why I sought to intern at his firm, I enquired of him as to who was the most important person in his office. After some deliberation, he pointed to his chauffer. Throwing caution to the wind, I probed further to discern the reason why he of all the mighty souls at Emerald House was anointed with this rather heavy onus. It turned out the indubitable chauffeur was then the only keeper of the keys to the office and nobody would be able to get in without him! The fact that R.N Jhunjhunwala was magnanimous enough to pay yours truly a stipend in honorarium–a princely sum of a few thousand rupees still affords me a sense of warmth even today when freezing the family jewels in an ivory tower.

    In my final years at law school, I interned with Marzia Rohani-Dalal, an intellectual property legal consultant in Pune. It was under her tutelage, that I half-learnt that a highfalutin vocabulary and unwarranted hubris do not maketh the man; integrity and kindness do.

     

    What areas of law interested you during your legal education?

    Constitutional Law, Evidence, Medical Jurisprudence, Philosophy, Psychology, Criminology and Criminal Law, International Law and Political Science.

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Radhika Singh & Co. 

    Green but beady-eyed from law school, hers was the only offer on the table. That and naiveté, were the  deciding factors.

     

    What prompted your move from Radhika Singh & Co. to taking up a position with R. Ginodia & Co.?

    I loathe being diplomatic but this once I will peg it down to professional differences. R. Ginodia & Co., was a buttress from a looming fate of becoming a professional bum–culturally a much favoured vocation of the youth of Calcutta. Pecuniary compensation was pathetic to say the least, a reflection of the paltry value ascribed to human life not just in the glorious state of West Bengal. The omniscient chief minister had even contemplated a thousand-rupee stipend for aspiring young legal beagles–verily a shining example of State apathy to the monetary incentive required to take up the practice. As a tyro, people will do and say their damnedest to impress upon you the nobility of the profession and how long and what they did to establish themselves, but you have to look deep down inside to find what it is you truly stand for. You can go only so far with someone else’s reasons.

     

    What kind of cases did you take up after you started independent practice in Calcutta in 2011?

    The work profile typically entailed international as well as domestic transactional work and even some criminal matters, besides advisory and drafting assignments. Naturally, getting work was the primary concern but it was not something I lost too much sleep over. Strife and hardship, if one is mindful about it, breed a sublime sense of self-confidence. Once the volume of work started to build, biting off more than I could chew became the next dilemma. While you shouldn’t be afraid to share and spread the wealth, collaboration has its own pitfalls–you must be very careful as to whom you choose to work with.

     

    Please share with us some of the interesting cases that you worked on.

    Without going into yawn worthy details, I cut my teeth with one of my first advisory assignments. I was privately counselling a regional union leader in the giddy sway of the popular vote elected to proceed with a strike action while on the payroll of a loss making public utility service, despite a court order and advice to the contrary. From the client’s perspective, in light of severely throttled salaries and arrears over a period of six long months of penury, a strike was perhaps justifiable. Alas, not quite under the law. The contempt proceedings that followed may have been a vindication of advice rendered, and even earned me return business, but there is a distinct truth in the old proverb, ‘the path to hell is often paved by the best intentions’.  Your advice is discrete from a client’s actions. Professional detachment is mandatory. This certainly helps during collection.

     

    Could you tell us about your transition from litigation to core corporate work?

    My being a foreigner precludes the possibility of appearing in a Thai Court of Law–hence the transition. Nevertheless, litigation avoidance, negotiation and alternative dispute resolution are still within my domain of expertise besides corporate work.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on? 

    Fee quote acceptance and execution capacity are the foremost considerations. I certainly do attempt to specialize in a specific body of work–being private equity transactions and arbitration. Of course, bridging the gap between desired work and actual assignments could possibly be a task better suited to the Bombay Sappers.

     

    Can you tell us about your role as the Senior Associate at Ployprathip International Law Office, Bangkok, Thailand? 

    My profile has evolved from being execution centric to now involving client handling and liaison, and as a result has acquired an element of management that covers engagement, workflow and personnel, client retention, as well as billing and collection; in other words, the entire work cycle-reminiscent of my days as an independent practitioner.

     

    What is the experience like working in Thailand? Do you intend to return to India eventually?

    When I first arrived here on holiday in 2012, Thailand struck me as the India that never was. The cultural and religious similarities echo in many aspects of daily life. Our best attributes are manifest. Confrontations and conflict will be assiduously avoided–professionally and legally even. Thai dispute resolution procedure incorporates provisions for court supervised mediation which are regularly invoked thereby effectively reducing the caseload unlike in India where the pendency of cases is only mounting with every passing day.

    You can’t get away with irate and inconsiderate conduct–your job just won’t get done. Procrastination can be an issue especially with impossible deadlines, but with relationships taking precedence, there is always a way here in Thailand. I have acquired a reputation of being a hustler, as is typical of most of Indians abroad, one that I am not averse to.  

    With regard to returning home, this is not on the immediate horizon especially since the prevailing rate of taxation is significantly lower than in India given my level of income and more so because there is a greater tangible correlation between the infrastructure provided by the government in return for taxes paid.

     

    What are the key nuances in advising clients successfully and developing a proficiency in corporate drafting and advisory? 

    Comprehending commercial intent in context of what is permitted by the law and what is not, is crucial. Often, you may have to ground your client and when you do, you should have a better alternative to the one whose plausibility you have called into question.

    Outlining expectations and billing is imperative-especially when payments are due from clients in different jurisdictions unfamiliar with local ethical rules. Never lose sight of the money.

    I apply the OODA (Observe, Orient, Decision, Action) loop to my work process, (somewhat synonymous with the IRAC methodology) which is an air combat theory propounded by USAF Colonel John Boyd, that emphasizes on agility over power (or leverage) to manoeuvre within an opponent’s tactics. It is especially relevant to adversarial situations and even business continuity planning where it is comparable to the Shewhart cycle. There is an order to chaos.

    #1 lesson for rookies-Know Your Client! Know exactly whose interest it is your job to uphold and where the line must be drawn between professional care and personal obligation.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career? 

    A fair number of my friend’s hail from top tier firms and are kind enough to keep me informed of trends and developments in the practice, especially the best sources online to continually enhance my knowledge quotient–so they are my guides and benefactors. In fact, I try and learn something from every single person I meet or do not meet–this way I transcend the superficial and build meaningful relationships, however brief.

    Mentorship is vital. You need to have someone not just to inspire you, but to also point out a better and faster way of getting the job done-somebody to watch and learn from while you practice your art.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I believe in getting things done on time and honing my situational awareness to anticipate and act decisively before things go FUBAR. There are certainly days when time-management goes out of the window, but the objective of a successful practice is for your client to take a calculated risk acting on reliable advice as opposed to an uncalculated risk hinged on arbitrary time and cost constraints.

    While the practice of law itself has managed to pique my curiosity over these last seven years, at the end of the day, the nature of the profession is such that we are bootmakers to kings, to borrow an expression from the film, The Good Shepherd. Lincoln could not have put it better, ‘A lawyer’s time and advice are his stock in trade’. It would be dangerous to allow the paucity of one to impinge on the other.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today? 

    The hurdles have almost always been a construct of fear; a trepidation of whether work would be futile; if futility was obvious, how was I then to improvise and get around and on top of a situation; fear of how a maverick strategy would be received and implemented; fear of committing to something; a performance anxiety in a manner of speaking-but then as you get older, you begin to appreciate and work with it-it is verily the harbinger of the thought process that makes a good idea better; that failure in itself is a test by fire so that you can improve on the enterprise you embarked on so long you keep at it. Ultimately somebody is going to give up. It just isn’t going to be me.

    Five years down the road? ‘Do I dare to eat a peach?’ Partner, if my practice is up to snuff.

     

    Giving the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest happenings in the law?

    Read voraciously. Read, read, and read some more. Digital, paper, whatever-anything you can get your hands on. Subscribe, if you must, to blogs and online legal news. Find out what your competitors are up to. Have an ear to the ground. Take the time to acquire actionable intelligence. Be curious. Be flexible. Not knowing, is not an excuse.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Stand up for what you believe in. If you can’t, you are probably not going to do a very good job of representing someone else. And if you are going to take a stand, know your ground.

    “As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely on authority, there is no end to our troubles.” Bertrand Russel.

     

  • Siboney Sagar, Founder, Resolve, on studying in NLSIU, qualifying the NY Bar, and her diverse experience

    Siboney Sagar, Founder, Resolve, on studying in NLSIU, qualifying the NY Bar, and her diverse experience

    Siboney Sagar graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 1998. She then went on to pursue her Master’s degree from Columbia Law School, with a focus on Corporate Law, International Law and International Affairs. She has worked in the Chambers of (then) Attorney General of India, Advocate Soli J. Sorabjee. Since then she has worked with AMSS as Associate, GE Consumer and Industrial as General Counsel and later as Vice President-Legal and Compliance. In 2015, she founded her own firm, Resolve, a dispute resolution forum, where she’s Managing Partner.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Working under Advocate Soli J. Sorabjee
    • Her illustrious career and diverse experience
    • Founding and managing Resolve

    How much of your success would you owe to your alma mater, NLSIU?

    The education curriculum and delivery at NLSIU has been geared for understanding and experiencing the rigors and breadth of lawyering. I benefited from the tight schedules and deliverables but most of all from the fraternity and the size and comfort of the community.

     

    Did you moot, or engage in any extra curricular activities? 

    I engaged in the legal services clinic, on the editorial team for publication and was very active in the Sports and Cultural Committees. Extra-curricular of both, related to law and otherwise, are most relevant. The legally oriented activities open a window to the world ahead and the non-legal activities allow us to engage and collaborate with persons other than our immediate peers.

     

    Tell us about pursuing your Masters from New York’s Columbia University. 

    Columbia has been a very defining experience. I used the opportunity to engage in many different courses and also expanded my view of the legal profession.

     

    Can you give us some clarity on the application process?

    I applied to the universities that had separate LLM classes along with options to study with complementary schools and courses. The university looks at grades, statements and experiences that realistically define your personality to fit with their goals and aspirations for their graduates.

     

    How did you prepare for the New York State Bar?

    The New York (NY) Bar is a rigorous exam and there are professional companies for preparation of the same. I attended BAR BRI and had a wonderful group of frats for study work. The NY Bar is one of the most challenging exams for the sheer size of the material.

     

    What did your role at Soli Sorabjee’s entail?

    When I joined the chambers of Soli J. Sorabjee, he was the Attorney General for India and the work was very diverse. While working with the counsel representing important matters for the Union of India, the teaching in Soli J. Sorabjee Chambers has helped not only the formative years but until today the great lessons of research, organisation and approach to an issue are invaluable and useful in different ways.

     

    How was your stint at AMSS? 

    I loved my stint at AMSS. I worked with the Infrastructure Corporate Team during my time there. The quality of clients as well as the resources were very relevant to support my venture being a commercial attorney.

     

    Tell us about what makes a good lawyer in a corporate setting.

    (Siboney was the General Counsel at GE Consumer & Industrial (India), and has been duly recognized for your efforts.)

    A good lawyer in a corporate setting is benefited by using their client-counselling skills along with always expanding their commercial and service their understanding.

     

    How would you say work as an in-house counsel was different than that of a law firm?

    An in-house counsel carries the responsibility for the execution of the legal advice further than an attorney advising or assisting from a law firm. In addition, an in-house counsel is required to almost always extend their capacity and creativity to manage commercial expectations while balancing the rigor of compliance.

     

    Can you elucidate further on the in-house options for law students? 

    Today in-house lawyers function like large law firms which gives lawyers many opportunities after graduating. In case you plan on working in-house, it is a good opportunity as it creates and develops subject area expertise along with the position and designation of legal skills.

     

    What motivated you to start ‘Resolve’?

    (Siboney has founded ‘Resolve’ which is an initiative geared towards encouraging and catering to private mediation in India.)

    Resolve is a forum for developing conflict resolution and conflict negotiation capacities as the backdrop to panels of practioners of mediation, conciliation and arbitration. A whole series of serendipitous events have led to the evolution of Resolve. My experience as a General Counsel with the status of execution, implementation and the viability of litigation and the balance with commercial realities have shaped my perspective so much. Further, the personal learning toward productive, creative and viable solutions, with the tendency to look for the most utilitarian and commensurate options, shaped my negotiation style in conflicts. Also, the skills discovered and developed really allowed me to appreciate the varied uses of the legal, analytical and creative process. The result has been the development of Resolve which is in its initial years of finding the appropriate space.

    I truly believe in advancing stages of negotiation, collaboration and mediation which will be most relevant as the world shrinks.

     

    How do you manage a work-life balance?

    If life takes a back-seat then that’s where we will find ourselves. In the back seat!

    I practise yoga and teach when possible, travel to discover myself and others, and try to keep myself in the front seat as far as my breath and brain go!

     

    Being eligible to practice both in India, and in New York, what are the notable differences of being a lawyer in both these jurisidictions?

    I have worked as a commercial lawyer in different jurisdictions. As I have not practiced before the courts in New York, I cannot comment.

    As commercial lawyers, counsel from different cultures bring that nuance to their style and approach, while the commerce dictates the functional attributes of the lawyering at any court.

     

    What are you currently working on?

    Nurturing and providing direction to Resolve has been the mainstay while developing personal practise as mediator, conflict speacialist, coach and counsel.

    I am teaching a course on negotiation and conflict at NLSIU, Bangalore this year. I have also taught at ISB, Hyderabad to train corporate leaders as well as counsel in adavanced negotiation, conflict management and effective dispute resolution.

    It’s an exciting and daunting time to develop some ideas, curriculum and skill enhancement workshops for us at Resolve.

     

    Would you have some words of advice for our readers, who are mostly prospective lawyers themselves?

    Practice! Practice! Practice! Whatever it is you are doing at this time, put your energy to it even it is devastatingly boring. Anything you do with intent gives you a lesson that is useful anytime especially in the diverse practice of law.

    Allow the creative streak to develop as it’s a misnomer that lawyers are only intellectually inclined. You have many avenues to best use lawyering skills (so spare the friends and family from arguments)!

     

  • Yudhist Narain Singh, Real Estate Lawyer, Khaitan & Co., on working with Tier-I firms, legal writing, and his diverse experience

    Yudhist Narain Singh, Real Estate Lawyer, Khaitan & Co., on working with Tier-I firms, legal writing, and his diverse experience

    Yudhist Narain Singh graduated from Symbiosis International University in 2009. Since then he has worked at Fox Mandal Little as Corporate and Real Estate Lawyer, at the Supreme Court as Legal Counsel, at Tata Sky Ltd., and J. Sagar Associates. He is currently working with Khaitan & Co., where he specialises in Real Estate matters and Stamp Duty structuring/advise.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being a real estate lawyer
    • His experience in legal writing
    • Working at Tier-I firms

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’am a lawyer specializing in real estate and stamp duty laws presently retained by Khaitan and Co. I advise clients (both international and domestic) on a wide array of real estate/stamp duty related matters such as conveyancing, leasing, transfer through schemes of arrangement, stamp duty structuring, negotiations etc. Previously, I advised regularly on various corporate/commercial/regulatory/international laws and dispute resolution which has provided me with a diverse and sound platform for understanding client requirements.

     

    In your opinion, what are the activities you would recommend as necessary experiences for every law student?

    Law school is probably the best phase in one’s journey of becoming a lawyer and while it is important to have fun and develop as a person, it is also very important to retain a career oriented focus. While activities such as participation in moot courts, pro-bono /legal aid activities etc. are important, I’am of the firm view that good internship(s) play a vital role in skill development and enable law students to understand the profession they are entering into. The time spent in law school is mostly centred around academic development while internships/on the job training provide law students with an unadulterated and realistic view of how the legal profession works which enables the student to gauge whether they have the correct aptitude to work with law firms, a senior advocate etc. Good internship’s also helps create a discipline of hard work, quick thinking, research skills, presentation abilities etc. which are absolutely crucial to one’s career development. Leading firms often base their recruitment decisions for a candidate solely on the basis of their work delivery during these internships.
    Paper publications do help in introducing yourself to the legal fraternity and growing visibility. However, it is very important to research extremely well on the topics that one is writing about. This development of research skills as a student goes a long way in making you a better lawyer. I also highly recommend that authors continue to be actively updated on the latest happenings on topics which they have written previously. Clients/prospective clients tend to follow up and gather information which a lawyer needs to be up-to-date on at all times.
    That said, it is important to have a blast and enjoy law school! Those memories will stay with you forever!

     

    Tell us how you developed an interest in Real Estate Law.

    At the beginning of my career I was blessed to gain a broad exposure working on various laws in both international and domestic environments. However, right from my first day in the profession, I have been actively involved in various real estate matters and gradually developed a keen interest in this sphere of law. My family also actively invested in various properties which gave me a sound practical knowledge of how the business side of real estate operates. During my international stints, I always took a keen interest to understand lands laws of different jurisdictions and consistently compared it to the regime in India. A few years back, I became actively involved in several large real estate transactions which provided tremendous opportunities for me. At the conclusion of these transactions, the sense of satisfaction and reward helped me seal the deal and made me decide that I was going to focus solely on real estate and stamp duty matters. It is truly a pleasure to invest oneself fully in a subject which one is passionate about!

     

    What internships would you recommend to a student who also aspires to profess in the same area of law?

    Real Estate is a subject which touches every strata of society. Therefore, most of the lawyers I have met have dealt with certain aspects of real estate law in some form or the other. However, this area of law is very vast, substantive and specialized. Most lawyers tend to have dealt with only matter specific areas of real estate law. In order to truly understand whether real estate law is for you, you must work with a specialized real estate team who have the requisite skill-set and knowledge to advise the client correctly on real estate matters. Land revenue work, a complete understanding of transfer/devolution of title of property, advise in relation to mortgages/the effects of creating a charge on immovable properties, stamp duty implications in transactions etc. require a certain degree of specialization which only comes to those who are dealing with these subjects day in and day out. Therefore, I suggest that anyone seriously considering to specialize in this direction should intern with a specialized team. It is a very interesting and challenging area of law!

    A very solid understanding of the Transfer of Property Act, Indian Easements Act, Indian Stamp Act, and Registration Act etc. is a fundamental pre-requisite in this area of practise and one needs to be conceptually clear as you will keep referring back to the bare act/commentary on a regular basis while advising clients.

     

    From your experience in legal writing, please share with our readers the kind of topics that one must write on if they hope to get their work published in reputed journals.

    In my view writing on relevant and burning topics is a huge value-add as a professional since it requires a lot of research and requires the author to view the topic from an objective third-person standpoint. During this research, you often get a clear perspective of what are the happenings at a macro-level in the nation while also being able to see how new legislation/change in the regulatory framework is actually affecting people at the ground/local level.
    For instance, in the early days of demonetisation people tended to take a very sceptical and negative view for real estate. However, with the passage of time and the governments thrust on the implementation of Real Estate (Regulation and Development) Act, single-window clearance regulations for getting building approvals, proposals by various States to lower circle/revenue rates etc. there is a new sense of enthusiasm in the real estate market and people are expecting the market to come back in a highly transparent and regulated manner with a more realistic market value. Therefore, a great amount of research and objectivity is required to draft a sound and balanced article. International journals/publications required the latest position on relevant topics which need to be well researched and represented in a succinct and clear manner for people in various jurisdictions to easily understand. In my view as a legal professional writing regularly does increase market visibility and helps you to stay up-to-date on many issues.

    Please share details of your Ashurst internship experience with our readers.

    Working/training at Ashurst and/other well-established international law firms in a foreign jurisdiction provides great insight and learning. In many ways these firms work in a highly structured and efficient environment which most Indian firms cannot even fathom. As a trainee, one gets access to research tools, learns drafting skills, attends international conferences/forums etc. which one would not ordinarily have exposure to in India at such a young age. In my view, stints with law firms abroad are essential in developing and broadening a young lawyers own outlook on a global scale and broadens your view of the legal profession. It teaches young lawyers to work in a culturally diverse environment and really shows you that professionalism can overcome any cultural/language barriers irrespective of the backgrounds of the people you are working with. Today, I have a huge level of comfort working with various international clients which stems from the international opportunities that I actively participated in at the beginning of my career. While working in London, Rome, Paris and Milan was rewarding, travelling on work at a young age really changes your outlook towards the world and people, not only as a lawyer but also as a person.

    Please describe your experience at Gianni Origoni Grippo Cappelli & Partners, Milan.

    Gianni Origoni Grippo Cappelli & Partners is truly a world class firm and my secondment experience with the firm was very good. Even though Italy has its origin in civil law jurisdiction, the cross-border investment transactions that I was involved in was very insightful and challenging and taught me that irrespective of jurisdictions, corporate commercial deals (and diligence/documentation) is very similar all over the world. Working in a truly European firm also exposes you to how seamless business is within the EU, and the significance of international treaties/charters.
    International firms look for young lawyers who are bright, hardworking and are willing to work in a culturally diverse environment. They look for young candidates who have a global perspective and senior foreign lawyers are very interested in learning about Indian laws and cultures. A global perspective of the inbound/outbound deals and macro understanding of the Indian economy are crucial. Excellent command of the English language and clear communication/presentation skills are a pre-requisite as most international opportunities have huge business development roles/involvement as well.

     

    Give us some insights on the qualities that Tier-I firms look for in prospective candidates.

    (Yudhist has work experience at Jyoti Sagar Associates as well as Khaitan & Co., two of the most sought after firms by law students.)
    Khaitan and Co. is an excellent firm to work for and there is a surge of energy when you arrive at office everyday which cannot be described. It has a pro-active “can do” environment and does not shy away from taking on extremely challenging assignments from clients. They have adopted globally accepted best practises and the firm has a solid foundation on the basis of which it has grown consistently. The Partners are very approachable and there is a lot of positive synergy between teams/resources. Similarly, J. Sagar Associates was also a good firm to work with.
    Tier-1 firms look for young bright candidates who have a positive attitude and clarity of thought. These firms expect that these candidates have their fundamental legal concepts extremely clear. In my view, these firms know very well that new lawyers (in their first or second year) are not going to be experts and invest a tremendous amount of time and resources developing and training these young resources. In my experience Tier-1 firms adopt a long-term perspective for their candidates with a view to helping them grow so that the relationship between the firm and the candidate is a mutually beneficial one.

     

    How important are grades in order to get into a Tier-I firm?

    In my humble view, the law school or GPA is no measure of how good a lawyer is going to be! This is not to discourage people who have worked hard to get into top tier law schools, but in reality, I have seen it is your personal motivation and willingness to learn and grow that makes you the lawyer that you are.

     

    Can you tell us about your experience with Tata Sky Ltd. as legal counsel?

    My role at Tata Sky was a challenging and refreshing one! The work undertaken by me was mainly in relation to regulatory laws as the DTH industry was highly regulated by the Ministry through TRAI. This role involved interpretation of various regulations and involved actively lobbying/interacting with various government bodies and officials. It taught me a lot in terms of how to handle government departments and made me realise that corporates and government bodies can find common ground for development of an innovative and relatively unexplored industrial sector. Additionally, the AGR matter in the Supreme Court was particularly a challenging matter to work on and it also gave me a great opportunity to brief/work with Mr. Arvind Datar who I sincerely feel is a phenomenal Senior Advocate.

    In my view, working at in-house teams in India is very subjective. It is based solely on the organisations requirements. Some companies have cutting edge in-house legal teams which are at par with law firms (for instance Facebook, TATA Sons, Google, PepsiCo.) while others merely have legal ‘managerial’ roles. For prospective law students considering to join an in-house team my advise is to really do some thorough research on the team and its involvement in the company’s operations. As a practising lawyer, I would always advise fresh law graduates to practise for a while before settling for an in-house position in order to determine what this profession has to offer.

     

    Younger law schools do not have the benefit of a well-connected Recruitment and Placement Cell or an established alumni network. How should students from these colleges go about applying for internships or jobs and overcome this disadvantage?

    I agree that established and prominent law schools, especially the National Law Schools have a firmly established presence with an unmatched alumni which makes it easier for recruitments from these schools.
    This profession involves a lot of resilience –keep applying irrespective of the outcome and keep wanting to grow no matter what the circumstances. Study hard, publish well researched articles regularly, grow visibility, and participate in moots/debates. It is vital to add value to not only to yourself but the institution that you are studying in. Every law school was once new and it takes years to establish one-self in a highly saturated market. I sincerely believe if you are hardworking and earnest, an opportunity will click in your favour!

     

    What would be the specific career advise you would give to persons entering into the legal profession?

    I would advise fresh entrants as follows:

    1. Enter the legal profession with an open mind without limitations and a positive outlook.
    2. Simply put, there is absolutely no alternative to hard work and putting in the hours.
    3. Take on all the work you are given, everything is a learning opportunity.
    4. There are no failures, only lessons learnt. It is a tough profession and it is vital to be resilient.
    5. It sounds clichéd, but don’t focus on money solely at the start of the profession, it will come.
    6. Gradually develop a long term view of where you want to be.
    7. This is a highly competitive profession and I am of the firm view that you must find your own niche area which should be based ideally on a subject you enjoy.
    8. Enjoy this noble profession. It is as rewarding as it is challenging!
  • Christopher S. Kumar, Legal Officer, Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, on litigation, core commercial practice, and studying in London

    Christopher S. Kumar, Legal Officer, Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories, on litigation, core commercial practice, and studying in London

    Christopher S. Kumar graduated from Symbiosis Law College, batch of 2008. He went on to pursue his Master’s degree from Queen Mary University of London, specializing in banking and finance laws. He is currently the Legal Manger and Head of Legal for IPDO and Biologics business units in Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories Limited. As part of his job profile, he handles the world wide legal portfolio and advises on all legal issues from the perspective of the research and development (IPDO) and biosimilars (Biologics) business unit. Prior to Dr. Reddy’s, he was engaged in general commercial practice with Rajinder Narain and Co., the litigation department with PepsiCo, and as a trainee solicitor at a criminal solicitors firm of Lloyds PR Solicitors in the UK.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Studying in London
    • Transitioning from litigation to core commercial practice
    • Heading IPDO and Biologics at Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I am very much a first generation lawyer, I never had any inclination of the legal profession before class IX in school. My parents are teachers in a school and we had a life where being entangled with the law was a big ‘no’, as you can well imagine in a middle class home. However, in class IX, I wrote one of those aptitude tests that are set up by career counselors in school, and law was the only option that the career counselor had in mind for me. That got me thinking, and since then, yes, I have worked towards that path, and especially after going through the rigor of writing the entrance tests at law schools, and background of applying precedents and general knowledge in law, I was hooked.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time as an undergraduate at Symbiosis Law School?

    First and foremost, my classmates and professors just made the whole environment apt and conducive for learning and experiencing new ideas. The friends you made in college and the professors who had a personalised approach to everyone was very helpful. When your torts professor knew everyone’s name and paid special attention to each member of your class, in a class of 160, that makes a huge difference. We also had to a lot of internships, not just because you were going to get a pre-placement offer, but because we had healthy competition in college, which brought out the best in everyone. These are just some instances which made Symbiosis a great place to be in for college. Obviously, it goes without saying that we had a whole lot of fun as well, just within the batch or with seniors and juniors, it was family away from your family.

     

    What are the factors that you considered while deciding to join your work place?

    We all passed out of college with certain expectations and aspirations. Most of my classmates had a tier 1 law firm as their prime objective after college. Unfortunately, I did not have a preferred stream of law even after passing out. There was never a doubt that law should be my career, but even in law, with the choices available it was still a hard choice to make, unless life made that choice for you, or you had the wisdom and foresight to think that well this is what I want to do and this is what I will be doing with the rest of my life. All I had in mind was that I have not completed my education as of now. Considering that, I consciously decided to practice different areas of law and gain experience in several areas before making my final assessment of what I wanted to do as my career. Therefore I started out with a legal offshore company, where I would get to experience UK law as well as gain insight on commercial laws in general. I found my calling for commercial law in that first stint. After my LLM I pursued other streams including litigation first as trainee solicitor with a UK criminal law firm and then with corporate litigation with PepsiCo. Rajinder Narain was next in line to experience general commercial laws and the Indian law firm environment. Lastly, and where I found that this is my preferred destination was Dr. Reddy’s which has along with law, the avenues of business and strategy very intricately woven into the profession. I have been here for a significant duration of time now, and I believe the in house counsel role is where I see myself for the foreseeable future.

     

    What prompted you to take up an LLM?

    Even when starting my first job, I was quite adamant that my education wasn’t complete after Symbiosis, and I always believed that everyone has to continue learning and educating themselves, in order to stay up to date with the market / business trends and just getting to know new concepts in law and otherwise. I pursued the LLM with this open mind, ready for any learning that I could get, and Queen Mary was an ideal location for the same. It was important to have a college mentor in this time to show you how much you can learn by the LLM experience and to give you a direction for learning. My professor, Angie Raymond (I believe she has now moved to the Indiana University since I left college) was an inspiration in this time, she inspired us to attend several lectures even if it was unconnected to the current course.  My course was International Banking and Finance laws, but that didn’t stop me from attending other classes even if it was only for the sake of listening to the professors and not getting any credits for the same. We used to attend classes by several professors including joint classes with Kings College and UCL. There were also guest lectures from experts from the industry area – banks and companies, and regulatory agencies like the Bank of England, which offered a huge array of learning.

    Another important reason to study abroad is to open your perspective and horizon. There are people studying with you from all over the world in a place like Queen Mary and one of the important lessons I learnt was for example, while a Chinese student may not agree with CISG, a US student may argue vehemently for it, and a Brazilian student will try and push his own national laws. They may have different perspectives and reasons why they came to that conclusion and this is important to you, as a on looking student to know what the difference is, it will teach you analyse your own perspective on the situation, and you will be able to provide your client the same different perspectives depending on what you learnt there at that very occasion. This is applicable in several situations especially dealing with international law and law in different jurisdictions, and this continues to help me in my current work place.

     

    Could you tell us about your transition from litigation (Lloyds PR and PepsiCo) to core corporate commercial work (Rajinder Narain & Co and Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories)?

    At the end of the day, the question here is what do you see yourself doing in your career; is it the thrill of standing in front of a judge and arguing your matter, or is it the equally exciting transactional work that is the backbone of a multi-million dollar deal. For some, the thrill and excitement in a courtroom is the basis for their endeavour, for me, the excitement was dealing, drafting and negotiating. At the end of the day both from a litigation and corporate commercial point of view you are trying to best protect your client and get the best deal for your client, but regardless of if you come into the picture at the beginning of the situation where you draft out the agreement or at a later stage where your are dealing with a dispute situation the deciding factor should be what makes your want to practise law more. That is something that every law student should think about before coming to a decision, and that is the same reason why I shifted from litigation to core corporate.

     

    What is your current role as the Legal Head of IPDO and Biologics at Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories like?

    In Dr. Reddy’s the business units I handle are a very intellectual property centric business. R&D and biosimilars both deal with high protection of IP, but as a generic pharmaceutical company, we are not entirely dealing with patents- it’s more know how and how to protect it, not only in India, but in over a 100 different jurisdictions all over the world, that forms the backbone to the business. Whether you out-license your technology to a third party for manufacture and  sale of the product in a different country or if a third party is developing some new method to manufacture a generic molecule for Dr Reddy’s, it is inherent, to always protect your IP through documentation. That IP will be intrinsic value for the company, and any sales of the product in any market will be based on your intrinsic value that you bring to the table. Apart from the usual business, there are other issues that as a huge pharmaceutical company you might also have to deal with, for example, securing electricity for your plants with a captive solar power plant, acquiring companies with technology that compliment your current portfolio, securing financing for different projects. So even though one might think that a pharma company would have only legal issues relating to pharmaceuticals, at most times that is not the case. As the business counsel I have to interact with several teams in the organisation and also deal with all the HR legal issues, litigation and Information Technology issues that complement the business.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career? 

    I believe it is not only important, but also quite necessary to have mentors at different stages of your professional life. In college it was my professors, and seniors who had a huge say on what to learn and how to go about your career. At the work place, its someone who takes you under their wing and someone you can look upto, for inspiration and ideas. Luckily I have had mentors wherever I worked, especially my current General Counsel at Dr. Reddy’s – Suprio Dasgupta who has taught me a great deal. One life value he gave me as a business counsel, and he always keep saying this to me and other colleagues, is that one should ‘build your depth before you can build your width’ in your profession, and that is something I am abiding by, that I should get to know all the details of how my current business works before I pursue and undertake other challenges and projects. I think that will apply to all sorts of careers, especially if there are any young lawyers reading this.

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly students and young lawyers?

    Yes, one advise I would like to tell your readers is, it is okay not to know what you want from your profession at the start of your career. There is enough time for you to experiment and get to know what you really like doing. Many of my peers are now quitting the once sought after tier 1 law firm to do other things in life. It is something that will come with experience, but once you do get to know your purpose, you will thrive in it, and not only thrive but excel in it.

  • Bhumesh Verma, Partner, Link Legal India Law Services, on commercial law, his teaching experience, and the art of writing

    Mr. Bhumesh Verma graduated from Delhi University in 1994. He was selected as a Chevening Scholar in 2000 by the UK government. During this scholarship, he studied at the College of Law at York and worked with Ashursts in London. Mr. Verma is currently a partner in the corporate and regulatory practice team of Link Legal India Law Services, New Delhi. He began his career at Ajay Bahl & Co. (now part of AZB & Partners) and went on to become a partner at Khaitan & Co and PKA Advocates before joining Link Legal. Mr. Verma has 22 years of experience in domestic as well as international corporate and commercial matters.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His illustrious career, and his diverse experience
    • His passion for teaching
    • Engaging in academic writing

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a law student. Having spent some time in the profession with wonderful lawyers and clients, I may know a bit more about law and business than some young law students or lawyers, but that’s about it. In the legal profession, one is always learning and updating.

     

    What inspired you to take up law? 

    STEM disciplines have always been most popular among parents and even majority students. Being a school topper, I too was expected to pick up science. Maths was one of my favourite subjects. However, I had no interest in medicine, engineering or any other technical course. I picked up commerce and went on to pursue B.Com (Hons) from Delhi University. During my graduation, I got acquainted a bit with business laws.  It sounded interesting and challenging, so I thought pursuing law would be good option for me.

    I come from a humble, salaried class family. There was absolutely no one in my family, nor a friend in the legal profession (I don’t think even today is, besides me). My family never even knew a lawyer. To add to it, immediately after my graduation, I landed up a job as Accounts Executive with a good NBFC. So, all these circumstances were conspiring to drift me away. However, family being sure of my conviction and track record in studies till then, gave in.

     

    How would you contrast your time as an undergrad at Delhi University with your experience at College of Law, York, England?

    Campus Law Centre, Delhi University used to be among Asia’s top law schools in 1990s. Studying there was fun in those days. Even getting the admission makes it a funny story now. Ours was the first batch for which an entrance exam was introduced in Delhi University. We had absolutely no syllabus, no workbooks, no coaching classes, no preparation. Just appear in an entrance exam one Sunday morning and wait if you are in or not. This is how the first batch got in.

    The classes were held in typical old-school style – black board, chalk and talk. There were no computers or gadgets to help, no online searches available. We had to use the library a lot. Some smaller roadside help books called ‘Dukkis’ were also available and some students used it for last-minute cramming.

    College of Law at York was a different ball game altogether. Use of PPT, computers, interactive sessions, negotiation role-play, drafting skills workshops, interaction with local practicing lawyers, visits to Courts in London, Edinburgh and Employment Tribunal in Leeds to observe the actual atmosphere. It all made a big change in my understanding, perception and presentation skills.

    Although I was already working with foreign lawyers on international assignments before the scholarship, access to foreign educational institution, courts, foreign lawyers’ offices, working in a foreign law firm was a welcome experience. This gave me an insight about ‘where they are coming from’ and bridging the gap between what they expect and what Indian lawyers think they expect.

     

    What were you areas of interest during your legal education?

    I was always interested in Corporate laws so took up Business laws, labour laws and tax laws as my optional subjects. After joining Ajay Bahl & Co. (now part of AZB Partners) after passing out from college and working on FDI related transactions, incorporating companies, getting into secretarial, statutory, tax compliances etc., providing opinions on corporate law issues, drafting commercial contracts, etc. my conviction about my suitability for corporate practice strengthened. My supervising partners also saw value in my being part of the corporate practice vertical in their firm.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    I can only speak about the corporate laws perspective. Being transparent in all business deals, optimum compliance with law of the land and expeditious resolution of any issues arising out of non-compliance or otherwise are very close to my heart. Throughout my career, I have been advising clients to adhere to sound legal principles and not take recourse to “fixing”, “managing”, “manipulating” or brushing aside legal issues. As professionals, our stake in any matter is very minimal in terms of money, but immense in terms of reputation. Am proud that I have had the privilege of working with some of most reputed and ethical professionals in the country, who have been insistent on refusing a brief rather than compromising on principles. This is more important in case of foreign clients entering India. The laws pertaining to anti-corruption are more codified and enforceable outside India so we have to be doubly careful while advising foreign clients and not suggest short-cuts or unethical solutions.  

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Internships were not as structured in my college days as they are now. During my college days, I took up internships with litigation lawyers, learnt about of court practice, drafting, representation in the courts and so on. It helped me learning the basics from a grass root level. Since I had no relation or godfather in the profession, I had to work doubly hard.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis? 

    On the contrary, I do not see much decision paralysis. In fact, I feel many students have pre-decided what area they wish to pursue even before joining a law school driven by the “packages” their senior friends or family members have got or the numbers they read in economic newspapers or some other sources.

    By the middle of your law course, majority of students are clear about what they wish to pursue. Litigation and corporate practices are complementary to each other but require different soft skills. Some students are very passionate and clear about their respective practice field – i.e., IP, environment, international laws, etc. one should pursue the line what feel confident about and is passionate about. Every practice area is rewarding, but it takes hard work. Some practice may sound remunerative from the first day, but it could saturate if you are not good at it.

     

    Could you please share with us how you came to be awarded with the prestigious Chevening Scholarship? 

    The British government used to provide scholarship to young Indian lawyers with few years’ work experience to get a feel of UK legal education and work culture. One of my senior colleagues had already been awarded this scholarship, so I was aware of the programme. Out of about 400 applications received in 1999, I was among the sixteen selected for this prestigious scholarship. The competition was so tough that year that instead of normal intake of twelve, they had to take sixteen!

    Scholarships are great means to enhance one’s knowledge and vision. Students should look at scholarships which could be useful in expanding their horizon in totality. One should not limit her quest to finding a job in the country wherein you get the scholarship. I don’t think more than one or two people in my batch would be abroad today. All of us came back with enhanced knowledge, exposure, contacts and confidence and are doing very well.

     

    What did you enjoy most about studying at College of Law, York?

    As I mentioned earlier, the teaching methods, education tools and exposure was very different. Being foreign students, we were pampered a lot while strictness on attendance and discipline was there. The teachers there were more of friends, unlike the strict and typical guru-shishya system in India.

    We did a lot of interaction based studies, role play for negotiation, drafting skills workshops presentations before the faculty on comparison of Indian vs UK laws, went to various courts within UK, and so on. At the end of the teaching programme, we were placed with law firms in Central London. I worked at Ashursts.

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    I don’t think it is any different from any other profession. As a student, you just study and write or otherwise convey your opinions and views in exams and presentations. You can get marks or grades for providing your opinion one way or the other.

    Once you are out with a degree and registration as a professional, the reality hits you. The buck stops here. Whatever you say or do, has to be very carefully crafted and drafted – be it a pleading, argument, opinion. Your client getting bail or jail depends on your skills. Your clients’ millions in a new project or success in negotiating a deal depends on your skills. So, now the onus starts falling on you. It makes you more careful and responsible.

    Could you take us through the process you adopt while writing?

    There is too much of information available these days. Each one of receives so many phone calls, emails, updates and newsletters that we are sick of it.

    I enjoy tracking developments in corporate and investment laws of India. By now, I have too many professional contacts worldwide and it is very difficult to discuss any new developments with them on a one-to-one basis, nor do I wish to spam anyone not interested. Hence, I thought of formulating useful information in the forms of articles which anyone could read without obligation or interference on my part seems interesting. Now, people who are interested in these topics read, comment, compliment, criticise at their own free will.

    What I do is I track news and developments which in my view could be useful for my contact base and other professionals. I try to put it in simple language so that non-lawyers could also grasp the intent with basic and useful information. For more details and specific advice, the readers can always approach me directly. Due to the simple language I use in my blogs and articles, sometime Indian and international websites request me for republication thereof, which I happily agree to.

     

    Where does you passion for teaching come from? 

    (Mr.Verma started initiatives to impart legal knowledge and experience to younger lawyers and students at firms where you have worked. He has also been a guest lecturer at various national / international institutions.)

    Unlike money, knowledge increases by sharing. I enjoy sharing my knowledge with younger lawyers and students, so whenever there is an occasion, I am available for mentoring, be it CLE at the firm or guest lecture at an institution or a presentation at a seminar.

    The first professionals a kid has interaction with are doctors and teachers, isn’t it ? Kids are scared of doctors for obvious reasons, so they tend to pick up a teacher as their first role model. I think that has stayed with me forever. I have utmost respect for teaching fraternity and am thankful to the role of all my teachers for shaping me into whatever I am today. Within me too lies a teacher as well, so as and when there is an opportunity to go back to college, I am too happy to oblige. I keep getting offers for writing books and joining as guest faculty, so never know what lies ahead.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the initial phase of your career?

    I have been very lucky and privileged to have worked with some of the best professionals of our times during last two and a half decades, be it Mr. Ajay Bahl, Ms. Lira Goswami, Mr. Pinto Khaitan, Mr. Paras Kuhad or Mr. Atul Sharma. There are some common traits to all these legendary and successful people. The more experienced and knowledgeable you are, you tend to be more approachable, humble, down to earth and open to new ideas. I am thankful to all these wonderful people for guiding me through my career and still rely on them for guidance. Besides legal acumen, you tend to learn so much from great professionals in terms of ethics, solution-centric attitude and so on.

    So, the importance of a good mentor cannot be underestimated, particularly in the initial phase of one’s career.

     

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest legal developments?

    Read and discuss.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    There are no short cuts or free lunches in life. Work hard. Be humble. Be serious about studies and work, but live and enjoy life too.

     

  • Neha Kashyap, Head-Business Development and Strategy, AZB & Partners, on talent recruitment, business development, and core legal practice

    Neha Kashyap, Head-Business Development and Strategy, AZB & Partners, on talent recruitment, business development, and core legal practice

    Neha Kashyap graduated from Symbiosis International University, Pune, in 2007. Since then she’s worked with Rainmaker Training & Recruitment Private Limited, as Associate Manager-Legal Recruitment, and later as part of their Business Development team. After successful stints with Vahura and Laurence Simons, she currently heads Business Development and Strategy at AZB & Partners. She is also an independent business consultant for law firms.

    In this interview, we speak to her about:

    • Being a first generation lawyer
    • Her experience in core legal practice, business development, and talent recruitment
    • Heading business development and strategy at AZB & Partners

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer by training and a legal business consultant by practice. With over a decade of experience in the professional services industry, I specialise in strategic business development and talent acquisition. I thrive on delivering innovative BD, marketing, communication and talent acquisition initiatives which build profile, deepen relationships and generate profitable revenues.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I am a first generation lawyer. I come from the city of Ranchi, where studying anything apart from maths and science spoke of how poor you were as a student. My father however, who graduated from IT BHU himself as an electrical engineer had only one thing to say to me and my brother-pursue your interests. He was the one who suggested law, saying I had decent oratory skills. He was my motivator.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time as an undergraduate student.

    I qualified the entrance test for Symbiosis and NALSAR. However, I was on the waiting list for NALSAR and before the status changed, I had already started at Symbiosis. We were the first batch of the deemed university at Symbiosis and although we hardly understood the difference, it somehow was a huge deal. We had the semester system and the grading systems had changed, so we were clearly the lot that felt special.

    I wasn’t someone who was out there mooting, debating or even quietly researching. I was very low-key in college. I gained some excellent experience by engaging myself with volunteering for differently abled kids and at an old age home. I also sold some special cookie boxes from Britannia during Christmas and not to forget, I had the highest sales then. I also represented my college along with a couple of batch mates and seniors at various inter college events on the singing side.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I had excellent internships through my five years. From the Jharkhand High Court to the Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court, I learnt a lot on the procedural and presentation side. I also interned with HUDCO (Housing & Urban Development Corporation Ltd) and Bharti on the in-house legal side. HUDCO was a lot of learning on drafting and research side. Bharti on the other side was a great exposure in terms of a classic in-house legal internship. I was working with the then VP Legal telecom on various aspects of telecom regulation and tax.

    Internships shape up your growth and bring you closer to the decision you finally take after graduation. I was clear about pursuing litigation and hence my internships were planned accordingly.

     

    What advice would you give students caught in a decision paralysis?

    The good news is that there is something for everyone today. My only mantra was to never follow a trend if you don’t believe in it. You may not get clarity just before the end of your fifth year or after one year of being a professional. You may continue to find that one thing that drives you even after being in the profession for ten years. But what I can assure you is, you will only learn if you continue to explore.

    In the legal professional, the good part is that you get to try out as much as you want through your internships. I would say keep your options open and explore as much as you can. Education and work experience are never wasted.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Singh & Associates.

    I had interviewed at a couple of law firms in Delhi and while I got through two of them, I chose Singh & Associates because I was very happy after my discussion with my Managing Partner. Manoj sir was extremely encouraging and invested a lot of time in mentoring. I was at the firm for almost a year. My main focus were drafting and understanding the procedural side of the courts. I would accompany my seniors to all the courts to understand the working of it all during the day and post 4 PM – it was all about reading, researching and drafting.

    What prompted you to take up a position with Rainmaker and Laurence Simons?

    A year at a litigation firm and I realised it required a lot of patience. I was looking for something different when I read about Rainmaker. I instantly wrote to them and instantly got interviewed telephonically and before I knew, I was on my way to Mumbai to join them. What prompted me to join them – the energy and enthusiasm which was infectious. When you are with a start-up, you are not restricted by job descriptions – the deal is to survive and you learn everything you can to save cost and deliver. Five years at Rainmaker have been the most fulfilling years of my working life. I was with Laurence Simons thereafter for about a year.
    My suggestion like I said would be not restrict yourself. Having said that, you can take the first three years to explore as much as you like but in your fourth or fifth year, its important to focus on what you like/ what you would like to pursue. It is important for your resume to speak about the direction in which you are looking to head. In the initial years execution is key. Having too many don’ts on your list may not help.

     

    How did you make the transition from core legal practice to business development and talent recruitment?

    The transition happened naturally. I was a peoples person and a good listener so as a recruitment consultant I connected with people (both clients and candidates) instantly. Being from the industry helped as you bring in your own network of people from college, internships etc.

    Six years as a recruitment consultant and I was looking for the next challenge in the business development space. After a short maternity break, I joined Vahura as their client solutions and business development person. Two years at Vahura with my original Rainmaker recruitment team was brilliant.

    On the business development side, I think innovation is key. Business development is not just about getting mandates or selling the firm but in the larger scheme of things, it involves communication, brand building, brand retention, pricing, pitching methods and so much more.

     

    What factors do top tier law firms take into consideration while looking at potential recruits?

    The top tier firms look for students who are focused, sincere and hard working. It is always easy to absorb interns who have spent some time with the firm and understand the working style of Partners and Senior Associates, but firms are always on a look out for fresh perspective.

    Some of the common mistakes I have seen students make over the years:

    • Drafting a single email and sending it out to multiple firms in CC. Please take the pains to personalise your emails.
    • Not customising their resume according to the kind of organisation they are applying to. If there is a particular position you are applying for, please make sure you highlight the work done in a similar sector/ industry or matter is mentioned first.
    • Keep in touch with seniors and HR at your internship place. Please send then a LinkedIn request and not a Facebook request (unless you people hit it off as good friends).
    • Always follow up on your internship/ job application.

     

    As the Business Development Head at AZB, what does a typical working day look like for you?

    A typical day is filled with ensuring that the process cycle is in place. From deal reporting to ensuring credits for the same, to making sure submissions are all made in time.

    One of the biggest factors at AZB is that we get to work with Zia. She invests a lot of time in this vertical and is always on top of her game when it comes to business development. You can only imagine the learning when working with her. One must pick up the dedication, time management and the sheer ability to be able to handle so much. She has a pragmatic approach to everything. She is extremely dynamic in her approach and is always open to new ideas.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I always did. My father is my first mentor. He is an engineer by qualification but never restricted himself to a particular job profile. He is someone I learnt loyalty and sincerity from. My mother taught me patience. She taught me that ideas are great but execution is key. There was a lot I learnt at Rainmaker and the credit clearly goes to the founders. When I started working, Ritvik Lukose (my first boss) allowed me to make my own mistakes, own them and learn from them. They never judged someone by the number of years of experience or college they came from or even previous roles. The first five years at Rainmaker were the best years.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? What are your interests outside law?

    Honestly, the fact that I stuck to the industry and not to the practice of law clearly states that recruitment, marketing and communication (services sector) were always aspects that were more interesting to me. Outside work, my focus is spending time with my three and a half year old baby. Engaging in the most intriguing conversations and answering all her queries in the most simplistic way is what keeps me going.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?

    Challenges honestly were very few. I was fortunate to have parents like mine who believed in me and my choices. I was fortunate that I got to work with a boss who gave me to the freedom to figure out and device my own ways of getting things done. At Rainmaker, everyone was a part of the decision making process and everyone was heard.

    One thing that I did battle was perception. The fact that one studied the law and chose not to practice. The fact that within the legal fraternity if you are not a mainstream practicing revenue generating lawyer, you must not have the intelligence to be there hence the choice.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Take that chance and own your decision. There are very few who have the ability to do what you can do because everyone is unique in their own way. Don’t follow the trend, do what makes you happy and trust the journey. You will only learn – either what to do or what not to do.

  • Ronojoy Basu, LLM Graduate, University of Toronto, on academic writing, IPR, and his diverse experience

    Ronojoy Basu, LLM Graduate, University of Toronto, on academic writing, IPR, and his diverse experience

    Ronojoy Basu graduated from Symbiosis International University in 2008. Since then he has worked with Khaitan and Co. as Associate, before moving to Rediffusion Y&R where he was engaged in their project on advertising, corporate communication, and branding. He went on to head the IPR department at Abhay Nevagi & Associates, where he supervised all IP related work done by the firm, mentored juniors in IP related matters and advised Partners on key IP issues.

    Ronojoy is a LLM graduate from University of Toronto, batch of 2016, with a specialisation in IPR, brand protection and entertainment law.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at Symbiosis
    • His internship experience and working in IPR
    • Taking time out to pursue his interests outside of law

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a recent LLM graduate from the University of Toronto, I have extensive experience and keen interest in matters relating to Trademark, Copyright and Brand Protection strategy.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I grew up Bengali and in an all-science family, it was thus expected of me to naturally gravitate towards engineering or medicine. I, however, had an unyielding love for English literature and history and wanted to have nothing to do with chemicals, calculations and circuits. After eliminating journalism and media studies – for back then, journalists were considered badly paid and media studies wasn’t really that well known to be reliable – law became that one field that, we assessed, would enable me to write and make money at the same time. The obsession with science, I believe, has faded over the last decade. If you simply see the number of law graduates the universities churn out nowadays, it’s a tell-tale sign of the times that are. In India, out of every five youngsters I meet today, two are law students and one is interested in IPR. However, with time, I am afraid this too shall hit a plateau like engineering has.

    There was no resistance from my family; in fact my parents were most supportive. What I did get were raised eyebrows from relatives, most of whose children eventually ended up taking law.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law as an undergraduate student at Symbiosis.

    A significant part of being a lawyer, I realise, is being a matured, unbiased and informed individual, someone with a strong sense of identity and respect for that of others. It was not so much the studies as it was life in Pune and Symbiosis that, I believe, shaped my personality. I met lifelong friends from different corners of the country in Symbiosis and it was the experiences had with them and the exchanges that prepared my mind to accept different perspectives and world views.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college?

    We at Symbiosis had a set syllabus every semester with a few choices for subjects here and there. Thus, the colour amidst all the black and white, if I may say so, came from co-curricular and extra-curricular activities. One must understand that co-curricular activities don’t mean only moot court competitions. There are Model United Nations debates, legal/non-legal essay writing competitions, human rights activism and a whole bunch of other fun options. Although I did my share of ‘mooting’, I was not the regular law school ‘mooter’ and instead went for Model Unites Nations debates, joined book clubs, attended guest lectures and what not. These experiences are indeed important as, not only do they serve as a respite from academics; they expand your horizons. For instance, my first knowledge of geo-politics came from the MUNs, which eventually encouraged me to take a course on International Law from the Indian Institute of International Law, New Delhi. My point is to gather as many experiences as possible in the time you have because a variety of life experience will go a long way in making you a better professional.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your legal education?

    I have a bit of a creative bend and so the branch of law that essentially had to do with the protection of creative endeavours would almost organically go on to capture my interest. Initially it did occur to me that IPR, in general, was the area I was interested in but it wasn’t until my internships at Khaitan & Co., that I really knew I wanted a career in it. This realisation pretty much pushed me to get a Diploma in the subject even if it meant an extra set of exams in addition to my regular semester exams. I might add here that I enjoy compliance work as well (thanks to my years at Abhay Nevagi & Associates where I inter alia carried out labour law compliance with my good friend and colleague, Mr. Partha Pati, who is now a partner of said firm). I am someone who does well what he enjoys, I instinctively compare the shapes of products, peer closely into prints and labels to see if they are aligned properly, try to call to mind if I’d heard certain lines on a song or a guitar riff elsewhere – that’s substantially why I favour IP law.

    I would, however, like to add that while it’s good to know what you want to specialise in, initially, I was sagely advised to take whatever work came my way, for the simple reason that having overall knowledge of the workings of courts and procedural law is an incomparable asset for any legal professional.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Out of all my internships, my time with Khaitan & Co., Kolkata and British Oxygen Company were most memorable. I had the pleasure of working under Mr. Arvind Jhunjhunwala, Partner, who made sure I was given as much work in other fields of law as I was in IPR. During my initial internships with Khaitan I first encountered the wonders of online legal databases and got to leaf through foreign legal journals. I would attend court almost every day and once in a while get to witness the likes of Arun Jaitley argue. It was here that I learnt court etiquettes and for the first time encountered jargon such as ‘briefs’ and ‘settling’. In the subsequent years, I was allowed to draft legal opinions and attend counsel briefings. At BOC, I had the quintessential in-house experience where I would help the then legal chief plan strategies in pending litigations and carry out researches and I would draft scathing legal notices for issues ranging from breach of contract, trademark violation to unfair competition. The most valued lesson, though, that I learnt from both organisations was not to hang around the espresso machine for too long!

     

    What advice would you give students caught in a decision paralysis?

    Bearing in mind that everyone’s situation is unique, my advice may sound generic but I speak from experience. I would advise against taking too many opinions and doing your own research and introspection – you have the right to pursue what you enjoy and do not get drawn towards big names and numbers. The digits will follow when you love your job. Do not be afraid to experiment with career options, the world is getting smaller and professional spheres are overlapping more than ever. It is important to acquire skills as you go along, learn a foreign language if you can manage the time, volunteer at an NGO, do that two-week diploma, do not be afraid to diversify your knowledge, every experience is a plus! Lots of people I know are in entirely different careers after graduating from law school and I am here to say, that is okay, it’s what keeps their boat afloat!

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    I received a pre-placement offer from Khaitan & Co. after graduating, sat for interviews and was finally accepted on 16 May 2008. Suffice it to say that in the first week itself I knew that life would never be the same. It’s a lot to adjust to in the first few months; you have responsibilities that now have real consequences, you come face to face with stress and learn to deal with it, you learn to deal with people, clients – it’s like any other job, really. You quickly realise that some skills are relevant to any profession – effective and to-the-point communication, both verbal and written, thorough perusal of documents, attention to detail and people management.

               

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Khaitan & Co. 

    Working at Khaitan & Co., was indeed very rewarding; one of the first things I was made familiar with was the trademark filing and prosecution process, which was followed by drafting plaints and petitions in copyright infringement suits for our clients, one of which was a prestigious recording label. Subsequently, I started assisting another associate in civil and criminal matters. Additionally, I was given the opportunity of working extensively on corporate due diligences and property matters. If you are a junior at Khaitan you can always expect to enjoy a smorgasbord of different experiences.

     

    What motivated you to quit your job at Khaitan & Co. to take up a position with Rediffusion Y&R?

    Early 2010 I decided to take a bit of a detour from the regular law firm life to try something else. Inspired by a cousin who is a poet in the UK and another one, an advertising copywriter also working abroad, I interviewed with Rediffusion and was immediately hired as a writer and trainee. I spent a year at Rediff living the life of a typical advertising creative, I would spend my days writing ad campaigns, punch-lines, TV/radio ads, jingles and street play scripts. I also learnt about the business of advertising, interacted with clients and participated in pitches. It was a wonderful experience and I met some of the most colourful and inspiring individuals ever. It would give me unbridled joy to see my ads playing on radio and on print. What’s interesting was that I also got to advise them on IP matters and sundry legal issues, which made my role in the agency rather unique.

    How did you come to take up a position with Abhay Nevagi and Associates?

    Rediffusion taught me a great deal about brands and that for any brand to avoid dilution or damage to its reputation, apposite brand protection activities had to be undertaken. This was a great bridge between my two great loves, brands and IPR! It was also around this time that I was encouraged to interview with Abhay Nevagi & Associates which was looking to start its own IPR cell. I began at ANA mainly working for the general advisory and labour law teams and gradually, by 2014 began heading their IPR department. At ANA I had the pleasure of working on some ground breaking IP work and with the help of my colleagues, Partha and Bikram, sharpen cease and desist notices, responses and litigation documents with an extra cyber-law edge!

     

    What was the application process like for your Master’s course?

    The University of Toronto, like any other University of its standing has its set of stringent requirements. IELTS scores, recommendations and grades apart, the Statement of Purpose, I had read, was an exceptionally important determinant. Mine took about four days and fifteen odd drafts to get done! I also remember having had to submit a document outlining my professional achievements. Aside from the UofT, I had considered Osgoode Hall Law School and the IPR program at Franklin Pierce Centre for Intellectual Property. I settled for UofT simply because the faculty included the reputed, Professor Ariel Katz taking charge of IPR and the top guns of Canadian entertainment law, like Tara Parker taking up Entertainment Law and Agreements. Also, UofT granted me a generous scholarship which definitely helped me make up my mind!

     

    Could you share with us your experiences from the LLM programme you pursued at University of Toronto?

    It was an intense ten to eleven months! All my courses had to do directly with IPR or were related to it and I was happy I made those choices. In our batch, which consisted of Canadian, Latin American and South East Asian candidates, myself and another student from ILS Law College were the only ones representing India. Our instructors were some of the heaviest hitters in the international academic scene like Michael Trebilcock, Matthew Rimmer, Ariel Katz, Simon Stern etc. and hearing them speak was a treat! My most memorable experiences were debates and exchanges had with my colleagues on issues ranging from academics to politics, race, religion, freedom of expression and such like. We also had inside jokes; like one of the pubs within the University campus which was frequented by law students called, ‘Prenup’, got a lot of laughs for obvious reasons.

     

    What tips would you give students and young lawyers who are inclined to research and academic writing?

    There’s no one method for writing a paper. As for me, I try not to conform to the traditional dos and don’ts simply because I like my papers to be approachable and fun. I, however, do take very seriously issues of attribution and precautions against academic plagiarism. I am not very conscious about the system of citations I use – some journals have their own while others insist on the Harvard Bluebook nineteenth or twentieth Edition – which has cost me a prestigious publication contract in the past, so, that’s a lesson for everybody, make sure you have the Bluebook handy. Have fun with your papers, they need not be a bore; my latest one, ‘Copyright Law and the Drummer’, published on SSRN (I am awaiting responses from other publications too) raises a few relevant questions and also serves as my ‘legal tribute’ to drums and drummers.

     

    What books, judgements, etc. that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    There are simply too many to mention. Off the cuff, the following come to mind; the US Supreme Court’s decision in Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Company [499 US 340 (1991)] and the Canadian Supreme Court’s decision in CCH Canada Ltd. v. Law Society of Upper Canada [2004 SCC 13], [2004] 1 SCR 339 with respect to Copyright law, with respect to trademark law, Mattel, Inc. v. 3894207 Canada Inc. [2006 SCC 22] (also known as the ‘Barbie’ case), the recent personality rights dispute concerning the TV series, Mad Men had also held my intrigue. Two books deserve mention, To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee and The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests?

    It’s hard. I have more interests outside of law than inside. I used to be a pretty good drummer; I wish to get back to it soon. I am passionate about writing, I am a voracious devourer of fiction, a Salman Rushdie fan and harbour ambitions of writing novels someday. I’ve written plays for children that have been performed in schools in India and abroad and I enjoy sketching too. And finally, I am keen on taking up archery at some point in my life!

     

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    To a happy place.

     

    Given the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    I read. But I also make sure it’s not always about law, where’s the fun in that? I scour blogs – both legal and otherwise, online journals and magazines like The Economist and The Caravan.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    1. It’s okay to be lost, do not panic, it’ll come to you.
    2. Do not be afraid to experiment with your career but do your best in whatever you’re doing now.
    3. Communicate clearly.
    4. Stress is a real thing, learn to deal with it early on.
    5. The answer is often in the documents before you.
    6. If you have trouble understanding, ask.

     

  • Vikram Wadehra, Advocate, Vidhii Partners, on heading their Kolkata wing, commercial litigation, and his diverse experience

    Vikram Wadehra, Advocate, Vidhii Partners, on heading their Kolkata wing, commercial litigation, and his diverse experience

    Vikram Wadehra graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, in 2010. Since then he has worked at Roy & Co., Advocates & Solicitors, and R.L. Gaggar & Co., Solicitors & Advocates. He is currently an Advocate with Vidhii Partners, where he specializes in litigation. His role entails matters pertaining to general civil, banking, dispute resolution and real estate. Over the course of his experience, he has advised and represented various companies, asset reconstruction companies, banks and government institutions in various legal forums.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • Working at Vidhii Partners and heading their Kolkata wing
    • His time at Symbiosis
    • His work experience

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer presently heading the Kolkata wing of Vidhii Partners, Advocates. I started my professional life working with some distinguished and eminent lawyers in the fraternity. I am extremely passionate and look forward to creating a positive dent in the eco-system I operate within.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I am a first generation lawyer, and law has always been my first choice. Debating and mock parliaments were my favourite extracurricular activities and I bagged a few laurels representing my school. As a student, I was fascinated reading John Grisham’s legal thrillers. As a budding lawyer, I admired Harvey (of Suits fame) and Alan (from Boston Legal) and fantasised about donning the black robe in the hallowed courtroom corridors.

    However, it was not long before these fascinations were replaced by the grueling reality of the legal system. With an intention to make a positive impact on the legal system, I was convinced of my choice to become a lawyer.

     

    How would you describe your time at Symbiosis Law School?

    Fun-filled to say the least; the weekend parties, the informal debates at the canteen, the late night group study sessions, grappling with a difficult paper and the ecstasy of doing well, all these memories beautifully woven together. One of the biggest advantages of studying at Symbiosis Law School, Pune, was the access to the multi-cultural student body which I was exposed to. While staying at the college hostel, I made friends from all across the globe studying different courses at the college, some of whom have become associates and we continue to help each other professionally. While legal education was demanding, the campus was a live wire with cultural fests, moot courts, debates and sports. I was fortunate to have a great set of friends which helped me through the thick and thin of my academic term at college.

    While I tried my best to balance academics with extra-curricular activities, I was particularly inclined towards moot courts because it gave me the adrenaline rush and the thrill of the court room discourses. I also wrote for magazines on pressing legal issues of that time.

    How must one decide the future course of action after graduation?

    The wide array of career options that are available to law graduates could often prove daunting while making the right career choices. While many prefer to join corporates to help them navigate legal intricacies, other might prefer litigation while a Masters/Doctorate degree could entice those academically inclined.

    There is no dearth of literature available on the internet, weighing the pros and cons of each approach recent graduates might want to take. While I was at a crossroads, the KSF (Key-Success-Factors) matrix helped me decipher my next career move. In the table I created, I listed down my priorities of what I wanted to achieve in my career and assigned weights to them (with the most important priority having the highest weight/importance). While a number of parameters might assume importance while making the next career move, I certainly feel quality of work and being able to associate with a mentor who could guide you and channel your efforts in the right direction assume prime importance. However, I would suggest that the intuitive inner calling has to be balanced aptly with reasoning and logic. Irrespective of the career choice, one has to push oneself to grow in the profession.

    Could you share with us the most important learnings you have had from your internships?

    I certainly think that internships are among the most important aspects of the education which any student receives at a law school. The fact that one can tie up the innumerable case laws and endless class discussions and case facts into practical and real life situations is what makes internships such a vital component of the education. Moreover, it would provide the student to test his inclination towards a particular subject or an area of interest and explore just how it might be to take that up full time. This is also critical because as an intern you can really look to forge relationships which would help you in the course of your career when you graduate.

     

    What areas of law interested you during your legal education?

    As a student, it was the allure of litigating in court that drew me. This quickly changed during my time at law school, where I found the intersection between business and law, particularly negotiation and creative problem solving attractive. This was particularly evident during my internships, since most of them were with law firms into Corporate Litigation & Advisory. This perhaps could stem from the fact that I was good with Accountancy in school and was always curious to understand the interplay of various elements within a legal setting. All of this, I believe, were important precursors which prompted me to choose this as my area of expertise.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    It is extremely important for one to have a mentor during the formative years of his/her career. I would go on to state that it is just next to acquiring your degree in law or clearing the Bar. This is because a good mentor would not just help you make strategic career choices or help you while you are at crossroads, he would also help you with insights which only an experienced mind can provide and would be extremely beneficial to a young lawyer.

    While I got to know the technical nitty-gritties of how a lawyer might approach a particular case and the thought process that goes into delivering a compelling argument, I was fortunate enough to find mentors during my internship stints who helped me as an aspiring lawyer. Whether it was seeking a second opinion on the case I had been stuck with or just bouncing off my ideas on a matter of importance, I always had experienced minds to tap into which have been instrumental in shaping up my career as it stands today.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    I try and consciously build a specific body of work. I am very careful while choosing the kind of projects that I work on.

    One of the most important parameters is the fact whether I would be able to do justice to what the client expects out of me. I try and do justice to every project I take up; not just in terms of the deliverable expected out of me and the team but also in terms of the time I am able to dedicate towards a particular project. I treat every project I associate with as an opportunity for me to learn something different and hence I consciously look for diversity on the work I do. This also helps me evaluate whether a particular project which I am going to associate myself fits in the long-term scheme of things i.e., how a particular project would help me achieve my career objectives.

     

    Could you take us through what a typical work day looks like at Vidhii Partners, Kolkata?

    A typical day at Vidhii Partners, Kolkata begins early with clients reaching out for updates to their matters. This is followed by arguing matters at the court-room, attending conferences with senior counsels, helping my team with issues that might have had them stuck, meeting prospective clients and ensuring that the expectations of all our existing clientele is met. We have internal meetings and huddles based on the team’s availability to discuss status on the matters in progress and chart the strategy for the future course of action. Further, it includes a mix of reviewing and drafting petitions and contracts along with negotiations with respect to the contracts.

    Having said that, the satisfaction at the end of a hard day’s work is unparalleled. Over the years, I have started to equate a successful day with the satisfaction of doing something meaningful. A couple of “Aha! moments” in a day, just makes the day so much more special and keeps you wanting to tide over the night and get back to work.

     

    Please share with us some of your experiences from the various commercial litigations that you have worked on.

    The first time I appeared in court as a new lawyer, I remember thinking to myself, “They sure don’t teach you this in law school.” Sure, I went through a course in trial advocacy and also was on moot court competitive teams. Yet, nothing would prepare me for the realization that I, a recent graduate surrounded by much more experienced attorneys (some of whom were admitted to the Bar the year I was born), was responsible for representing my client on my own. That realization was empowering and thrilling, but, if I am being completely honest, it was mostly terrifying.

    It is important to know your case. In my few years of practice, I have already learned that I will never be the smartest, the most experienced, or the most eloquent person in the room. But I believe that knowing your case better than your adversary is the first step to being a successful lawyer. It is equally important to know your judge. Every judge has his/her own idiosyncrasies that must be accommodated. A young lawyer’s ability to be flexible and adapt to judges will go a long way toward improving that lawyer’s reputation in the legal community. If possible, ask other lawyers about a judge’s pet peeves and unique practices. Taking this step will mean fewer surprises and less anxiety.

    Transitioning from learning the law to eventually imparting legal advice can seem daunting. Even now, I struggle with convincing myself that I can properly advise my clients, especially because I am often half their age (and look even younger). You might be inexperienced, but you do not have to act that way. I find that it is possible to appear confident, even when you are not. For me, I am most confident when I am thoroughly prepared. I make outlines and notes that will help guide me through an argument or presentation before the court. I practice even the simplest of arguments by talking it through to myself, to my colleagues, and sometimes to non-lawyers, which ensures that I really have a handle on the issues.

    Litigation is filled with conflict, emotion, and stress, so it is inevitable that someone will say something to you that is offensive. Ignore it and do not lose sight of your goal of effective representation. Responding in kind only results in collateral damage to your client.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?

    As ambitious lawyers eager to make a difference, students and aspiring lawyers often set unrealistic expectations out of themselves. One should keep in mind that it takes years, if not decades, to establish credibility and even attempt to create a change. Most lawyers, very early on in their careers, often get frustrated with the lack of results their efforts often yield and end up contemplating pursuing an easier path which might yield quicker and short terms results. I have lost count of the number of talented and capable lawyers I have met who are disillusioned with the system. Peer pressure and expectations from family doesn’t help either and most lawyers lose the steam halfway through the marathon.

    Another major challenge which I would like to highlight is effective time-management. With so many pressing issues demanding immediate attention, it is of paramount importance that you learn the skill to prioritize issues and effectively delegate work which you think could be adeptly handled by someone in your team. It is an art which often takes years to master and the earlier a lawyer gets it, the better he is poised to take on the demanding work-load a legal career requires.

     

    What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel in this industry?

    Hard-work is the most critical attribute one must develop in order to excel in this industry. There is absolutely no substitute for pouring over endless case literature, the late night discussions, working over weekends and extending hours to prepare for an appearance next day. There are days, I must confess, where the work-load is simply unmanageable and one cannot avoid but going through the day which most outside would term as boring, routine and monotonous. This is precisely the reason why it is important to be passionate about what you are doing.

    It would also help to have clarity of thought in your approach to a particular situation. While the enthusiasm and drive would propel you to strive to achieve perfectionism with almost everything you set out to achieve, having a clear thought process of what the stakeholders want might help you achieve the desired results quickly. Building relationships with clients, mentors, internal teams and various other stakeholders is just as important. Trust is an important aspect which drives business the industry and it’s important to invest in developing quality relationships.

    I started developing these skills while I was still a student. A lot of it was the unstinting support I received from my mentors and colleagues during the formative years’ of my career; which I am so grateful to.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with the latest legal developments and industry news?

    I read, mostly over the internet, and books to keep myself updated with the industry news and the latest legal developments. I also make time to browse through a few blogs which people have expressed their opinions over developments in the industry. This helps me gain perspective on issues which helps me gain clarity on my own thought process.

    I also make time to pursue online courses to keep myself abreast on all what’s happening globally. This gives me insight into some of the cutting edge research which is being done in my field and allows me to learn continually.

    Any parting message to our readers?

    Love what you do and you will never have to work another day in your life!

     

  • Rohan Joshi, AVP-International Business, TATA Asset Management, on switching to business from law, his diverse experience, and studying in Spain

    Rohan Joshi, AVP-International Business, TATA Asset Management, on switching to business from law, his diverse experience, and studying in Spain

    Rohan Joshi graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, in 2008. After a successful stint at Kotak Mahindra as Senior Manager, he went on to pursue his Master’s Degree in Management from ESADE Business School, Barcelona.  He is currently part of the International Development and Strategy Team at Tata Mutual Fund, where his role entails Business Development and Marketing for EMEA and Asia (ex-Japan) regions, managing offshore products and legal structures.

    He has also been Vice President-ESADE Alumni, India, for two years now.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Making the shift from law to business
    • Difference in curricula between BBA LLB in India and an MBA in Europe
    • His diverse experience

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’d say that am an International Business professional with a Business and Law background.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My encounter with the legal field was an accidental one. I actually wanted to get an undergraduate degree in business but there weren’t many good schools that were offering the same at that point. It was by sheer chance that I came across the newly launched BBA LLB dual degree program at Symbiosis. The combination of business and law coupled with the opportunity to attend a premier school such as Symbiosis, Pune, really appealed to me and hence I signed up for the same.

     

    Tell us a bit about your college days at Symbiosis Law School, Pune.

    The decision to go to Symbiosis Law was probably the turning point in my personal and professional development. I owe a major part of what I am today—for better or for worse­—to Symbiosis. Being in that vibrant and multicultural environment where you are surrounded by people who are talented in their own unique ways was such a great experience. The academic life was rigorous, specially a month before the semester exams, and there was a lot to do in terms of extracurricular activities, both on and off campus. The fact that besides contributing its fair share of alumni to the who’s who of the legal fraternity, Symbiosis also has a sizeable alumni base outside of law, which is a testament to the holistic learning and the networks that the school provides.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Internships provide key insights into the practical applications of what you learn in law school. I interned with HDFC Bank, Reliance Infocomm, Singhania & Partners, Fox Mandal Little & Co., etc to maintain a balance of working in corporates and law firms. These internships not only gave me exposure to various industries and both the sides of the business (i.e., in-house and law firms) but also gave me the confidence that I could do a decent job as a lawyer.  Eventually it was the internship at HDFC bank that in a way helped me in getting placed with Kotak Bank.

     

    What areas of law interested you during your legal education?

    Contracts, Arbitration, International Law were and still remain some of my areas of interest.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Kotak Mahindra Bank.

    I didn’t have any set parameters of where I wanted to work. However considering my long term goal of transitioning into a business role, I choose the Corporate Track during the placement week. The idea was to do justice to my legal education and work as a Corporate Lawyer for a few years. I was lucky to have been recruited by Kotak Mahindra Bank on the first day of Symbiosis campus placements.

    Having interned with HDFC Bank, I had a fair idea about the in-house legal work in a bank. However like any other law graduate fresh out of law school, I quickly realized that being a full time employee means a whole lot more in terms of work load and overall responsibility. Joining the workforce in 2008 amid the global financial turmoil also meant that there was a steep learning curve as in-house counsels (especially in Financial Services Firms) had to hit the ground running. Luckily the Corporate Legal team at Kotak comprised smart and seasoned legal professionals who were helpful enough to guide me. In fact within six months of joining Kotak, I was managing the legal support for entire northern region operations of a business vertical under the overall guidance of the Regional Legal Head. This responsibility was a bit overwhelming at first but thanks to the faith and guidance of my seniors I managed to do a decent job of the same. After a span of around two years, I was given the opportunity to move to the Corporate Office in Mumbai. After having experienced the work at a regional level, I got to have a closer look at the workings at the corporate level and also got exposure to varied business verticals.

     

    How did you decide to pursue an MBA, as opposed to a Master’s Degree in Law?

    I always wanted to pursue an MBA and felt that it would fit my long term plans better, hence didn’t really give LLM a thought. I figured I was already a lawyer and needed to develop my business skills. After having worked as an in-house counsel for around five years, I decided it was time to make the switch.

     Tell us about your experience studying in ESADE.

    At the time of applying to International Business Schools my aim, like any other Indian applicant, was to get into a Global Top 20 MBA program. Given the high opportunity cost of a US program and my inclination towards Europe, I decided to focus on the European programs within that list and hence ESADE became an automatic choice for me. I got really sold on the school during an event in Mumbai and decided that that was where I wanted to be. Besides the MBA, the opportunity pick up another language on the side by way of mandatory Spanish language classes also appealed to me.

    The ESADE MBA was a once in a lifetime kind of experience. Living in Barcelona, studying in a multicultural/multilingual environment with talented classmates from around 50 nationalities and being exposed to world class faculty from ESADE and other top global universities was amazing. Add to that the occasional guest lecture by a key industry leader/CEO and live consulting projects with multinational companies, the entire experience was incredible. The icing on the cake was the opportunity to pursue an additional Geopolitics course that was taught by the Former European Union High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy and Former Secretary General of NATO, Mr. Javier Solana.

     

    How did you receive the ESADE MBA Leadership Scholarship?

    Every year ESADE provides some scholarships under various heads to incoming students who have displayed certain attributes in the past and show reasonable promise for future. I was lucky to have been considered and awarded the leadership scholarship. The application process was straightforward i.e., you had to write a few essays highlighting your leadership experience/potential and how you would contribute/add value to the community. Thanks to my time at Symbiosis and Kotak, I had a series of activities such as being on the University Students Council, the Editorial team for an Kotak’s Legal e-magazine, voluntary military training from NCC, etc. to write about.

    I think students these days are fairly well informed and have well rounded interests but in any case I would recommend current students to explore their interests in co-curricular and extra-curricular activities in school.

     

    How do you perceive the differences between teaching and learning processes in India and abroad from your LLB and MBA experience?

    Before I compare the two courses, it is only fair to highlight some basic differences in terms of participant profiles and course content – unlike in India, the average experience in any international MBA program is around five to eight years. Further, the MBA is a more generic course that gives you a lot of information about different streams of management in a very short time. Keeping this in mind and the fact that methodology may have changed since it’s been some time since I went to law school, the most obvious difference was that an MBA puts a lot of emphasis on learning by doing. There are a lot of case studies and projects that you have to turn in. You learn from your professors but there is a substantial amount of peer group learning as well. The idea is put smart people with rich experiences in a room and to get a good discussion going. I think most LLB programs are more a one way learning streak mainly because of the nature of content as well.

     

    What prompted you to take up a position with SBI Mutual Fund?

    (Rohan has handled their business development strategy, offshore funds, along with legal structuring.)

    After the MBA I wanted to work with a big corporation as compared to some of the boutique firms in Europe that I was getting offers from. So I decided to come to India. When presented with the opportunity to work with SBI Funds Management, a JV between State Bank of India and Amundi France, I grabbed it with both hands.

    I joined SBI Funds as a Product Manager and gradually moved to the International Business team. Being my first business role in the Financial Services sector, the learning curve was huge and a lot of time had to be put in. The roles I handled were a good mix of Products, Sales/Business Development, Strategy and Legal Structuring. It was an absolute pleasure working on complex transactions and deals with seasoned professionals and the opportunities available due to the strong brands of the parent companies were also astounding. The biggest take away was probably the realization that I would end up utilizing both my qualifications (MBA and Law) for the kind of work I was/am involved in.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    Well, the choice of projects is a function of the overall strategy for a region, level of maturity of the target market, competitor and regulatory landscape, cost-benefit analysis, etc. While the methodology may change between projects, the rationale is to have a holistic understanding of business and regulatory aspects in order to take an informed decision to capitalize on underlying opportunities.

     

    What does a typical work day as AVP at Tata Mutual Fund look like?

    I work in the International Business team at Tata Asset Management and work on developing business opportunities around the world. My role is in some ways a combination of Strategy and Business Development with some parts of Product Marketing and Legal thrown in. A typical day would involve a few client meetings to discuss businesses propositions, preparation of some product/marketing documents (presentations, reports etc) on our key investment strategies, internal meetings to monitor the financials of the business vertical, and a bit of structuring work with some consultants and lawyers (in house and/or external).

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I usually don’t prefer using the term “mentor” whether in someone else’s or in my context, but I do think it’s important to have people to look up to for counsel. Having said that, I also think it’s important to be in tune with what you really want. Only once you have that clarity can you really take a call on whom to approach and what you want to imbibe. In my case I’ve been lucky to have met such people at various stages of my career who have been kind enough to share their experiences/perspectives and have been supportive even if I went with my gut on something. My bosses and colleagues in Kotak, SBI Funds, Tata Asset Management, and my professors and peers through the years have all had an influence on me in one way or the other.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests?

    I believe that just as it is important to prioritize work and give your 100% in the office, it is equally important to switch off every once in a while to recharge your batteries. I try to manage my time in such a way that most of the work gets done during the five working days. Unless there is some business exigency, I usually try to keep my weekends free and only access my mails once or twice to clear some important emails.

    I have always been passionate about travelling. Having lived in ten cities till date, the idea of being in a place for too long doesn’t appeal to me. This is also a reason why I enjoy the ever changing world of International Business. Like most other people who love to travel, the love for food, experiencing new cultures and some kind of inclination towards fitness is also a given and applies in my case as well.

    Rohan Joshi at ESADE with the ex­-Secretary General of NATO and the Executive Director of IMF
    (former Dy. Governor of RBI)

     

     

     

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?
    My career, as the case may be with many of my peers, is still work in progress. There have been a few challenges along the way, leaving law and switching careers was a major one.

    I don’t usually give a lot of thought to where I would be at a certain point in the future. I enjoy what I do currently and think that I have the right skill sets and background to make a reasonable contribution in similar roles. So wouldn’t mind continuing being in a similar role in this or some other industry five years down the line.

     

    Giving the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest happenings in your field?

    Being in International Business, you have to be up to date with a lot of things. Besides being keeping track of market requirements and your own offerings, keeping in tune with the dynamic competitor landscape, the global markets and regulations is very important. There is a fair bit of reading and research that goes on and that usually suffices. However it’s important not to get so tied up with research that you lose focus of running/developing the business. Hence I talk to the consultants and lawyers to understand their view on some of the major developments from time to time. This helps me and my management take an informed view on critical issues pertaining to our business.

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    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I don’t know if I’m qualified to give advice but I’d only ask young lawyers to be a bit pragmatic about their choices, especially the ones who are not looking to practice or join law firms. Law is a very broad field of study that equips you with a unique set of skills that have very wide spread applications. For the people joining corporate as in-house counsels, I’d just say that besides striving for excellence in the legal work, make sure you understand the business your company is in. This will help you look things in the right perspective and enable you to discharge your duties more effectively.