Could you introduce yourself and share a brief overview of your journey from college to becoming a Partner at Fox Mandal & Associates LLP?
I am Saurabh Bindal, a Partner at Fox Mandal & Associates LLP, heading the Disputes and Litigation practice of the Firm in Delhi. I did my Engineering and thereafter, decided to pursue Law from the reputed Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur, India. Thereafter, I started practicing in a reputed Intellectual Property Law Firm in National Capital Region. After a short stint at the Firm, I realized my calling to be a litigation and disputes Lawyer. Subsequently, I have worked with different Law Firms in the past in various capabilities.
In my current role, I render dispute resolution support to clients on issues relating to Arbitration law, Intellectual Property law, Privacy law, Information Technology law, Constitution, Company Law, Contract Law, Employment Law, Electricity Law, Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code.
I have eight books to my name and several publications in leading journals. I like to speak on different facets of law and have had the opportunity to represent my clients in different forums, in India and abroad.
With significant experience in diverse areas of law, including Arbitration, Intellectual Property, and Employment Law, what inspired you to pursue such a multifaceted legal career?
Well, you know, I firmly believe that the practice of law is based on continuous learning. I try to learn each day. The inspiration to learn is something that keeps me motivated in life. I have worked on different facets of law as that motivates me to grow. One must find a purpose in life. For me, I tend to believe now that my purpose was in the practice of law. Once, you start practicing law, you must be internally inspired to keep the channels of learning open.
As a Partner at Fox Mandal & Associates LLP, you lead the Alternate Dispute Resolution and Litigation practice. Could you share some insights into the challenges and successes you’ve encountered in this role?
The role I am currently engaged in is quite challenging. Each day there are new hurdles, and you have no other option but to live it up to them. As a leader, one must take everything as a part and parcel of life. In life, your failures become your teachers and your success your enemy. I believe it will be very difficult to point out every challenge faced by an individual in her or his role. However, after some point of time, with one’s hard work, every challenge a person faces in life sometimes becomes an opportunity to strive forward. The only insight I could share with the challenges faced by me in my role is that each challenge has taught me new ways to live a meaningful life.
Aside from being a legal expert, you’re also an author, having written several books on intellectual property law, arbitration law, and privacy law. What inspired you to delve into writing, and how does it complement your legal practice?
The person who brought me pen and paper was Dr Uday Shankar, a Professor at the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur. It was he who asked me to assist him with a submission. When I look back, I give all the credit in my writing to him for his patience with me. He has been my friend, philosopher, and guide.
I would also like to give credit for my writing to Eastern Book Company. Eastern Book family, and more particularly Mr. Sumeet Malik has been very kind in holding my hands. Majorly, all my books are thoroughly reviewed by him personally and he has contributed much to my life.
You’ve been recognized as an expert public speaker. What’s your favorite topic to speak about, and do you have any memorable experiences or anecdotes from your speaking engagements that you’d like to share?
Like the practice of law, public speaking is also a lifetime learning experience. The more you do it, the more you learn about engaging the audience. I have been constantly trying to master the art. Each event I speak at, makes me realize that speaking in public is also an art, at which, I am just a novice.
Having worked with various law firms, including Desai & Diwanji and Singhania & Partners, what lessons have you learned throughout your career, and how have these experiences shaped your approach to legal practice?
I have only learnt that your hard work will get recognized in life. You will always have people around you to pray for you in life, if you are good. I have always maintained good relationships with every Firm I have left. It is a very important learning in life. This has certainly helped me in shaping my legal practice. A legal practitioner must deal with different clients and as an officer of the Court must assist the Court. I believe, my experiences in life have taught me how to interact with clients and make a long-lasting relationship with them. My work in all the past firms has also taught me that it is only your work which will define you.
Apart from your legal expertise, your profile mentions that you are an insightful writer. When you’re not writing legal pieces, do you have any personal writing projects or genres you enjoy exploring in your free time?
Frankly speaking, I used to read a lot of fiction. Lately, I don’t get time to read fiction and that is something that I miss.
As a lawyer with a keen interest in technology, what’s your take on the evolving landscape of privacy and data protection, and how do you think legal professionals can stay ahead in such a dynamic field?
Intersection of law and technology is always appealing. COVID-19 pandemic taught all the lawyers to accept that intersection. Privacy as a concept is relatively new to India. We are still to see the rules being made under the Digital Data Protection Act, 2023. For legal professionals, it will be my advice that to stay ahead in this dynamic field, they must embrace the change which the Act has brought to India. I am sure that there will be a lot of work which will flow from the Act as it has recognized right of individual to keep his digital data private and talked about the repercussions if sharing of such data leads to any breach.
As someone who has excelled in both professional and personal life, receiving accolades such as the India Business Leader Award and the Young Alumni Achiever Award, what advice would you offer to young legal professionals aspiring to achieve similar success?
My advice to young legal minds would be to read, write, laugh, and enjoy life. One must be passionate about her or his work. If law is something, that you are passionate about, I am sure that everything else will follow. It is only work that will take any person ahead in life.
Can you share your journey and what inspired you to pursue a career in law, specifically specializing in Maritime & Admiralty, International Law, and other related fields?
When I started my law studies, I was interested in exploring the role of law as a foundation of business dealings, especially international business.
I was intrigued to discover the area of shipping was the connecting factor in these areas. Unlike some perceptions, the area of shipping was not small in scope. It encompassed international trade as traders used ships to transport their goods, international finance as banks financed these transactions, and insurers insure these shipments. I later found out there was Wet and Dry Shipping, Corporate or Transactional Shipping and Maritime Arbitration as well.
That was the launch pad for my interest in shipping. With that interest, I took shipping and shipping-related subjects in law school. I was fortunate to be able to study at the National University of Singapore where I was taught and inspired by great teachers.
Professor EP Ellinger was a powerhouse in Banking and International Finance, Professor FMB Reynolds who hailed from Oxford taught Agency and Shipping subjects and the most brilliant teacher was the late Professor Tan Yock Lin who taught Conflicts of law, he was a brilliant legal mind who made difficult concepts in Conflicts easily understandable. I did well in school and constantly called upon what I studied in my cases. I do encourage law students to concentrate well on their studies because these are invaluable foundations for practice.
With over 33 years of experience, you have vast expertise in both contentious and non-contentious areas of law. How did you navigate and develop such a diverse skill set throughout your legal career?
I saw law as a technical field, that cases and principles are building blocks to craft agreements, transactions and eventually. In litigation, I soon discovered that strategy and effective advocacy win cases, the more cases we handle we develop muscle memories which we can call upon in advocacy.
Soon I was able to see that each witness can present a treasure trove of evidence to cross-examine. I also learnt to adapt; as much as we can prepare for a case, the circumstances of a trial or a judge’s questions and directions may force us to abandon our prepared script to adopt a better and different strategy.
I started in litigation. After a few years into practice, I wanted to have both a transactional as well as a disputes practice and I am happy to say I handle both contentious and non-contentious areas.
Some of the notable transactional work in which I was involved was various ship sale and purchase as well as ship financing cases. When MISC the Malaysian Carrier wanted to go into the energy business, it bought Newbuildings from Japanese Yards, these were the Puteri Vessels that kickstarted the business and MISC is not a major LNG carrier. I was the Syndicated Lenders’ local lawyer.
I was also involved in several due diligence of Shipping Companies, Joint Ventures and reorganization of the Shipping Companies Malaysian assets and companies. When the Genting Group sold its luxury yacht Tranquility to a US buyer I acted for the buyer.
Being recognized by Chambers and Legal 500, among others, for your expertise in Maritime Law, what do you believe sets you apart in this field, and how do you approach resolving matters to the satisfaction of your clients?
In legal practice, it is not an effort if we enjoy our work and I do. Every case presents a challenge and a new learning opportunity. I do not believe that I possess any qualities different from other lawyers, apart from that I enjoy what I do.
Some talk of finding one’s purpose in what we do, I don’t agree. I think purpose can change. I would rather believe that we can be energized by our daily routine, by the challenge of difficult cases, or by victories of small wins or overturning of a case on appeal. We need these to sustain us because law is a very involved and demanding profession.
In addition to your legal practice, you’re also a Practising Arbitrator empanelled with various international panels. How does your role as an arbitrator complement your work as a lawyer, and what unique perspectives do you bring to dispute resolution?
Arbitration and litigation are contentious legal practices. The skills of a litigator are important skills for arbitration too, whether one sits as an Arbitrator or as Counsel in Arbitration.
You’ve been involved in notable cases, including arguing the inaugural reported decision of the Malaysian Admiralty Court. Could you share insights into the challenges and rewards of handling such significant cases in the maritime industry?
Difficult cases challenge me. That forces me to figure out how to best strategize the handling of the case, the conduct of the litigation. There will always be an approach we can adopt which can make complex cases managable or make them simple. We need to develop muscle memory for this. Along the way the bonus is when the cases we argue establish law, a principle not established before. I have had a few of these.
Your extensive contribution to legal literature, including authoring key practitioner texts, speaks to your commitment to legal scholarship. How has academic writing and research influenced your understanding of the law and your approach to legal practice?
Some 2 decades ago I found a dearth of Shipping Texts in Malaysia. I convinced LexisNexis (then Malayan Law Journal) to introduce these in Malaysia and eventually, I wrote the original editions of Halsbury’s Malaysian titles in Shipping and related subjects. I was particularly happy to write the Volume on Conflict of Laws; Conflict of Laws issues often crop up in Shipping and International Arbitration.
I also authored the Annotated Merchant Shipping Laws, Forms and Precedents on Shipping which contain transactional agreements. I was later invited by Sweet and Maxwell to write the Chapter on Carriage of Goods by Sea which contains precedent pleadings used in litigation and arbitration.
The writing ensures that I have a good grasp of the law, and this is invaluable when I handle cases. Funnily I have faced opponents in Court citing my writing unknowingly.
Having practiced in both Singapore and Malaysia, what are the unique challenges and opportunities you’ve encountered in each jurisdiction, especially in the context of maritime law?
I started my practice in Singapore before returning to Malaysia. I was very happy when Malaysia established the Admiralty Court in 2010 and I was able to argue the inaugural reported case of the Court in the case of The Istana VI. Since then, I regularly handle cases in the Court amongst others prosecuting ship arrests or challenging them.
The laws applied by the Singapore Courts are not much different and I believe that both the Singapore and Malaysian Shipping Bar have good lawyers. The Singapore ecosystem however is more varied with a healthy variety of international firms including many specializing in maritime law.
As an Adjunct Lecturer in BAC Malaysia’s law school, what advice do you give to law students looking to specialize in maritime law or pursue a career similar to yours?
Be interested in what is taught. Not many universities have maritime law as a subject at the LLB level. Curiosity, Initiative and Hard Work are most important.
It is good to have a specialization in mind, but maritime law can be acquired after graduation. It is important that the young lawyer enters a firm that handles the area. The on-the-job training is much more important.
I have trained many young lawyers in this field, and they picked up the areas well. Tan Sri Nallini Malaysia’s first Admiralty Judge never did Shipping cases when she was a practitioner and Her Ladyship had done much to establish jurisprudence in the area. She is easily amongst Malaysia’s top judges.
In your experience, how important is it for legal professionals to stay updated on evolving legal landscapes, especially in areas like maritime law, and what strategies do you employ to stay abreast of industry developments?
Keeping up to date is crucial. I find that LinkedIn is a great tool to do that because the lawyers do post and share useful content. I do post from time to time too. Reading outside of the law widely is also important.
Lastly, considering your wealth of experience, what advice would you like to share with recent law graduates who are entering the field today, particularly those interested in maritime and admiralty law?
Be curious about learning. Read widely. Seize opportunities when they appear, do not neglect the training experience, it is an invaluable time, not to be squandered. Get onto complex cases early even if the role is a minor one. Your friends and family will be your invaluable support through challenging times.
Please tell us a bit about your upbringing and what motivated you to study law?
I was born to a doctor couple in Ranchi. I have an elder brother who is also a doctor. I finished pre-school from St. Mary’s Nursery School and enrolled at DPS Ranchi where I studied until I finished 12th grade. Ranchi used to be a small quiet town. We didn’t have much exposure and the career options were limited to medical or engineering.
I had seen my parents at their workplaces but was somehow not attracted to their profession. I wanted to understand how the society and our legal system functions. There was a natural inclination to move from the study of sciences to social sciences (This is not to say that I didn’t enjoy science, I did quite well in my 12th board as a Biology student and I miss organic chemistry a lot!). I remember chancing upon the question paper for the first CLAT and finding the questions very interesting. I thought that this was something that would be fun to study. My parents were not keen with the decision at first. But I owe it to my school teachers who played a very important role in convincing them. They eventually came around.
How was your law school journey? We see that you’ve done a fair bit of extra-curricular activities as a member and head of the Music Club at GNLU. You’ve also been part of the organising committee for the GNLU International Moot Court Competition (“GIMC”) and the GNLU Moot on Securities and Investment Law (“GMSIL”). Tell us a bit about these. Are co-curricular and extra-curricular roles important for a law student?
I think 5 year is a really long time if you have to just study law, so it is very important that you keep your interest going with other things. I have always loved playing music. I have even trained in Hindustani Classical. GNLU had a bunch of extremely talented musicians who formed the music club (a tradition that I’m glad to know has continued). Something very special and beautiful happens when a bunch of strangers with very varied backgrounds and interests in music come together to create music. I forged some excellent friendships through the music club, and I did it mostly for myself. It helped survive the grey walls.
The Organising Committee roles started because I wanted to be among the “cool kids” on campus during GIMC. But over a period of time, it taught me responsibility and very strong organisational skills. The Organising Committee itself is divided into sub-teams for logistics, sponsorship, PR and hospitality, which have their respective team heads or coordinators. Organising a moot which witnesses such wide participation from teams and judges is a crash course in event management. By our 5th year, some of us who were part of the GIMC-OC founded GMSIL because to bridge the need for a moot exclusively for securities and investment law. Our moot court coordinator, Dr. Girish R. liked the proposal and took the idea forward. The University administration was extremely cooperative and helpful, and we had another moot to organise!
Co-curriculars are definitely important for an all-round development, and somewhat even necessary given today’s competitive environment. I am not sure if extracurriculars help directly. Being involved with the organising committee of a moot court competition may not help you with job applications. But they do form good conversation starters. As an OC member, whether you like it or not, you will know something or the other about the moot problem, and learn a lot simply by hearing the oral arguments. Some of the younger judges who come might also help in mentoring and guiding.
Winning the Best Speaker at the 3rd All India Corporate Law Moot Court Competition and receiving an Honourable Mention at the 23rd Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot in Vienna are impressive achievements. Could you share some insights into these experiences and their impact on your career?
It is incorrect to equate good speaking skills in a moot with a good career in litigation or even law, generally. Moot problems help you think. They come closest to making a student apply the law, think on your feet, and experiment with legal arguments. I picked up a lot on coherent, crisp, and succinct drafting when I was doing Vis (all credits to my team – Muskan, Shweta and Catherine, and to our team coach – Zehaan). Drafting is a very underrated skill. It is extremely important to be able to convey legal arguments in simple words and in a structured manner to have maximum impact on the reader.
As far as oral argumentation goes, the preparation for Vis was very different compared to AICLM. With AICLM our focus was very much on the law and clarity of thought and expression. Since it was a national moot we expected the judges to ask questions and preparation was done accordingly. Vis was trickier. We had prepare for arguments before judges from different jurisdictions who were used to hearing very different accents and dialects. I remember hitting rock bottom at one point in my preparation for the oral rounds, because I felt that I wasn’t getting better. Things got better once I identified that I cannot go by a scripted speech. In that sense, moot court competitions helped me discover an individual style of argumentation.
Most moot court competitions are based on a new and upcoming legal issue. They’re a great way to keep on your toes about legal developments and interesting areas of law. My main reason for participating moots was because they were a great learning experience.
You secured a pre-placement offer with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas in your 3rd year at GNLU. What would be your placement advice to students?
Honestly, I had not given much thought to placements back then. Our University had an excellent placement and internship committee which worked towards ensuring that students had internships and placements. I can’t speak of the standard procedures today but back then, a PPO was the culmination of repeat internships at any office. I had performed fairly well at my internships with the erstwhile AMSS. I was amongst the top rankers in my batch and had a well-rounded CV. Those factors did play a very large role in securing the PPO.
A strong resume is imperative for higher chances at a placement with any top-tier firm. But that does not necessarily mean an “academically good” resume. I can’t generalise but I think when firms come for placements, they are looking not just for talent, but also for a candidate that fits well with the larger work culture and ethos of the firm. Not everyone is a good fit for every firm.
How was your experience of working at CAM, Delhi. Did it seem daunting at first? What tips would you give to fresh joinees at a law firm?
It was quite daunting in the beginning. It was the first time that I was living in Delhi by myself. But I shared a home with some of my college seniors who took out the time and energy to guide me. There was a fair bit of inhibition and self-doubt. What helped was to have seniors around who could guide, and I was quite fortunate that way. It is important for everyone to understand that there is a bit of a jump from being an intern to being an Associate at a law firm. Nobody is inherently good at law. Good lawyers are a by-product of good training.
I don’t have many tips for fresh joinees. Each team and each firm has a different style of working and requires a different skill set. Diligence, honesty, sincerity, humility, patience and a willingness to learn are just the starting points. It’s essential to look after one’s health – we often ignore that when we’re starting out.
What were your reasons for leaving a Tier-1 law firm and joining litigation? What advice would you give to students who want to join litigation?
I wanted to be in and out of court more regularly and practice a wider range of law. I had great exposure at CAM, but the learning curve had started to plateau. I didn’t want to get too comfortable with the money and decided to move out young after finishing 2 years at CAM. That decision worked out really well for me because I had learnt my basics and was able to get up to speed on matters very easily.
The usual advice on patience and perseverance in litigation is quite common so I won’t repeat that. I have two pieces of advice for students. First, the horse is as good as the stable (as said by Fali Nariman in his autobiography). Find an office or a chamber which will really help you blossom into the best version of you.
Second, figure out your “why” of continuing with litigation. Law in general is a demanding and challenging profession, if you want to go about it the right way. It looks very different from the outside than it is on the inside. So, you really need to have a pretty strong reason to be a litigating lawyer – it can be anything, whatever keeps you going. For me, it was not the money, or the adrenaline rush of being in court, or the glamour of being a senior advocate. At the risk of sounding nerdy and naïve, I have continued with this purely because I like reading briefs, I love reading law, I like applying my mind to the case and to the law, and I like drafting. The practice of law brings me peace and satisfaction.
Please tell us more about working at a Chamber in Delhi. How is it different from working in the litigation team at a law firm?
I joined the chambers of senior advocates after my stint at CAM. With a senior’s office you don’t draft so much but you are handling a larger number of matters on a given day. The drafting is already done by the firms and advocates who come to brief the senior. The input expected from a junior is to be thorough with the briefs they’re marked on, prepare notes for arguments and be quick on the uptake and legal research. All this happens post 3-4 PM when you are back in office from court. In court, a big part of your job is to keep tabs on what matters are reaching, avoid a clash to the extent possible and ensure that your senior appears in them. This last part is very important because all preparation goes to waste if your senior does not appear and the matter gets adjourned.
Why did you decide to qualify as an Advocate on Record? Can you share some insights into the process of qualifying as an Advocate on Record and its impact on your career?
The decision to qualify as an AOR was influenced due to the chambers that I had worked or interned at. I had interned with HMJ (Retd.) Indu Malhotra (before her elevation), who had been an AOR before being designated as a senior advocate, another internship with ADP Chambers where Mr. Debesh Panda is an AOR. I was already enamoured by the prospect of being an AOR because I witnessed first-hand the kind of responsibility it came with and the skills that it required. Post CAM, I joined the chambers of Mr. Dhruv Mehta, Senior Advocate who used to be an AOR too. I then joined Mr. Jayant Mehta who was an AOR when I joined him but got designated as a senior during my tenure at his chamber. Both my seniors are not only great lawyers but have been excellent draftspersons. I wanted to emulate that and hence, taking the AOR exam was another step in that direction. I also enjoy Supreme Court practice a lot and hope to build my practice as an AOR office.
The impact of becoming an AOR is yet to be seen as I have only recently started my independent office. The process of qualifying is pretty straightforward and the details are available on the Supreme Court website itself. The exam comprises 4 papers – Practice and Procedure, Drafting, Advocacy and Professional Ethics, and Leading Cases.
Your publication record is quite extensive, covering topics from arbitration to competition law. How has academic research and writing contributed to your growth as a legal professional, and do you see a synergy between your academic pursuits and your practical work? Please tell us a bit about your research papers such as, the one on the overlap of insolvency and arbitration laws in India and its implications? How do you decide to write on a particular topic?
Despite several earnest attempts, I have not been able to keep up with a regular habit of writing. It is not mandatory to be engaged with academics and scholarly writing once you are a professional. Whatever little that I have published was purely because I have academic leanings and I enjoy writing on legal topics. I want to be a lawyer who is very actively involved in academia, and I have unrealistic ambitions of being able to author a commentary (someday, who knows?).
The more you read and keep updated, the easier it is to zero in on a topic. Being legally aware and updated automatically leads to a churning and overflow of ideas which often seek release in the form of an article. I also took my research projects in University seriously and chose topics which either piqued my interest or left room for creative scholarly work.
Why did you decide to read for a masters at the University of Cambridge after working for a couple of years. Is post-qualification experience important to secure an admission? What advice would you give to students who want to pursue an LL.M. abroad?
A masters’ degree wasn’t on my agenda when I finished my undergraduate. It was only during practice that I got the opportunity to dabble with very different areas of law. I’m truly grateful to my seniors’ chambers for that opportunity and for planting in me a genuine and deep interest in certain areas of law. I wanted to study these civil and commercial laws in depth and spend time in not just understanding how these laws work, but how they should work, and why.
The importance of work experience depends on the University and the programme that you choose. There is really no one-size-fits-all approach. As far as Cambridge goes, they have a very inclusive selection process and work experience is not a pre-requisite to secure an admission.
Like litigation, figure out your reasons for doing your masters, and tailor your CV accordingly. A masters from a reputed University does increase your chances of getting hired with an international law firm but it is not a ticket to that job. There are people who have moved to international law firms without a masters too! It is best to do a masters right after law school if you know that you want to get into academia. But it is certainly not a necessity if you want to continue practicing law.
How has the LL.M. helped in your career? How did you decide on your LL.M. subjects (International Commercial Litigation, Intellectual Property, Information Law and Advanced Private Law)?
As mentioned earlier, I chose these subjects because I was already familiar and interested in them through my work experience. I didn’t pursue my masters for any immediate or direct advantages to my career as far as employability is concerned. It did tremendously expand my knowledge, understanding and overall ability to think about the legal issues relating to my masters subjects. Since I continue to deal with these practice areas, they do contribute towards my outlook to briefs and my engagement with these laws on a regular basis.
Tell us a bit about your time at Cambridge – curricular and extra-curricular activities, both. What would a typical day look like for you? How challenging was it to deal with the reading lists and the academic work?
Cambridge is a very peaceful and engaging place, almost a respite from the busy hustle bustle of my life in litigation. The whole city is full of students and the culture is such that it fosters academic growth. Every attempt is made by the colleges to help focus by taking care of all other pastoral needs. This is done, perhaps, to ensure that students are able to cope up with the humongous amounts of readings. In the LL.M. course it is not enough to know the law. The professors’ expect that you have thought deeply about your subjects and have reasoned with it well. They are more interested in hearing your original ideas.
During term time, apart from attending class, I used to spend most of my time at my college library or at the reading room trying to cover up just the basic readings for my classes. It was impossible to finish the reading lists during term, so a majority of the break between terms was also spent in finishing the pending readings. For someone who has a genuine interest in their subjects and wants to be thorough, the entirety of the course duration can get used up in just finishing the readings. But the readings were divided into essential and optional to make things easier for students.
It wasn’t all work though. I helped organise the Cambridge Arbitration Days – 2022 at the Faculty of Law. This was one of the first arbitration events that was being held in person post COVID. We had some of the best barrister chambers and solicitor firms come down for the sessions. I met some of the best legal minds here.
I was a member of Darwin College at Cambridge which is right by the Cam River. Matter of fact, the backyard of my house opened into the college gardens which were adjacent to the river. Darwin has a special place in my heart – I made friends from all over the world and across disciplines. You could just be sitting and having a cup of coffee in the café and strike a very thoughtful and enriching conversation with a complete stranger who will most certainly have a thing or two to teach you.
I founded the Law Society at Darwin. I was very active with the swimming club. I would almost never miss our Saturday swims followed by brunch at the college. I did a fair bit of punting and kayaking. I signed up to become a punt captain at my college and by the end of my course I had become an expert at giving people punt rides along the river. I even did a night punting trip! Darwin has the best (and the most affordable) bar in Cambridge and is run entirely by students. I used to bartend once a week and earn some side money. I played a lot of cricket and football. I think I made the most of my time there, but that is how the environment is like at Cambridge. It ensures that you maximize your involvement with everything. This can also lead one astray. So it is important to not lose track of your priorities.
In addition to your litigation work, you have advised on various aspects of data protection laws and have drafted privacy policies. How do you stay updated on evolving legal landscapes, especially in areas like data protection, and what advice would you give to legal professionals on staying current in today’s dynamic legal environment?
I think it is easier to stay updated in today’s legal environment because important cases and developments get reported immediately. I think LiveLaw and Bar&Bench do a pretty good coverage of domestic legal developments. I have also been in the habit of reading international developments by customising my Feedly since I was in law school. There must be newer ways of staying updated now, would appreciate receiving tips on that myself.
A question that is often repeated- How difficult is it to be a first generation lawyer in the litigation circle?
It is difficult for sure, especially if you are not from Delhi, like me. But then again, it is not impossible either. The starting point differs if you are from a family of lawyers and you certainly have an edge over others. Even if you discount legacy, lineage makes things easier purely in terms of rent, expenses, office space, library and resources. But, I’m hopeful that in the longer run everyone does end up finding their ground. I can’t say for other cities but the Bar in Delhi is relatively more welcoming to outsiders. One of my law professors used to say in GNLU – Everyone will end up reaching the same place. If someone has an airplane, let them use that. You take the bus if that’s what you can afford.
I must also count my blessings and check my privilege. I managed to work with some of the best chambers even though I didn’t have any connections to secure an entry for me. Hard work does get recognition across the board. My seniors, and the people I have worked and interned with have always been exceptionally kind to me. I have been able to keep litigation because my parents are not dependent on me and I have no liabilities. I have a spouse and in-laws who have been exceptionally supportive. It wouldn’t have been possible for me to transition to independent practice without their backing. I can imagine the trajectory being far more difficult for someone else.
It is also important to understand that setting up an independent practice is not the only way that one can be a litigating lawyer. People are doing exceptional work at chambers and in law firms, be it small, mid-tier or big law firms. Being part of a team is less stressful than running your own establishment. It also gives more flexibility, allows room for experimenting with varied work, and ability to handle heavy briefs.
As a woman at the Bar, do you face any particular challenges and how do you deal with them? What changes would you suggest for a more inclusive and diverse Bar? What future opportunities and challenges do you foresee?
Women face more challenges in every field (personal or professional) and litigation is no different. A comparison of the number of men and women senior advocates and judges is self-explanatory. But I must point out that a career in litigation has a lot of longevity. There is always scope for coming back after a break, albeit, with initial struggles and difficulties. Since there is no linear career progression, it leaves room to carve a distinct path which may be very different from one’s contemporaries.
There are definitely a larger number of women at the bar today. With passage of time, courts have become more inclusive and accommodative spaces. There are also a large number of women who are re-joining the field once their children have grown up and they don’t need to be caregivers. I’m grateful for the Bar here which has an amazing set of women who have always been very encouraging and supportive. We have a long way to go but I’m hopeful about the future. We are the products of the hard work of all women who came before us and made our lives easier, and I hope that we’ll continue making things better for the future.
Lastly, if you were to provide advice to recent law graduates entering the field today, what key pieces of wisdom or lessons learned would you share with them as they embark on their own legal journeys?
“Own legal journeys” is the operative part here. The legal profession is very wide, diverse and rich. Each person has their fair share of struggles, blessings and rewards. There really isn’t a template to follow. Feel free to experiment, but do a good job with whatever you choose to experiment with. Another piece of advice is to have hobbies outside of law. The profession (and life in general) is far too long to live without poetry, music, sports, food, art and culture.
Can you share with our listeners your journey and what led you to pursue a career in law and arbitration, especially with your background in finance and management?
I have always been a fan of law. This may seem like a stereotypical answer, but imagine, law is one of the very few areas of study which mixes imagination with practicality. Reading a law or an act or a Bill is no different than reading a Grisham Novel. There is logic. There is context. There is ‘masala’ (if I may say so) and then a reader morphs into the lawmaker and thinks from the point of view of what was running in their mind when they wrote this. It is exciting. The same applies to Arbitration. Arbitration has a history which predates the formation of the Republic of India. Then, we have the UNCITRAL and the Model Law in 1996 coupled with the fervour in amending the law multiple times over the years. Finance is a numbers game along with strategy. To me, Law and Finance go hand in hand because, while the former sets the boundary for innovation, the latter sets the boundary for intricate analysis and strategy. Having been in 100+ Arbitrations and being commended by various courts, I can confidently say that the flavour of the two is currently being sought by the legal world.
You’ve been involved in a wide range of arbitration and mediation cases, from finance to art and maritime law. Could you tell us about one particularly challenging case that stands out in your career and the lessons you learned from it?
Contrary to what one may think, all arbitrations look rather similar in nature. I am not being a reductionist, however, when one has seen multiple arbitrations and strategies, it is rather easy to spot where it is heading. The case I am about to share is a case that made me the Lawyer that I am right now. A very senior lawyer was hired in a high-profile arbitration. They called me to represent a counterparty. We concluded the arguments in which I was accused of bias, which the arbitrator quickly dismissed. I was called a ‘Chote bacche’ during the session. I did not respond. The Senior Lawyer invited me for a drink in the evening (I am a teetotaller). I shared the camaraderie and joined them. In that meeting, she asked me how old I was. I quickly quipped “Not young enough to call me Beta, not old enough to call me ‘Uncle’ “. She is someone I still look up to. We became the thickest of friends and I am the Godfather to her grandson. This shows that arbitration hinges not entirely on the law, but in your ability to put up a strong face in spite of the oddities.
Being a certified mediator and arbitrator, what key skills and qualities do you believe are essential for success in your field, especially when dealing with complex international disputes?
Patience and Listening is non negotiable. Everything is a learning in its own might. I believe that everyone is a student of law, no matter how senior they are. Law is so vast that our understanding is miniscule compared to what it has to offer. Once someone is an arbitrator, the job gets harder as every move of yours is questioned.
You’ve worked in various jurisdictions, including India, Singapore, UAE, UK, and more. How do you navigate the different legal systems and cultural nuances when handling international cases?
All legal systems cannot deviate from the basic principle of ‘Justice’ . The way it is delivered may be different. Civil law countries have a system which ensures finality in the process and a certain level of deterrence from bringing vexatious claims. I have seen the UK Pre and post brexit. The nuances may be far more pronounced from, perhaps, wearing a wig (which I do, much to the amusement of my son). In the UK, it is difficult to take a matter to the UKSC unless the point of law in question is framed by the lower courts. They are very picky about what reaches the UKSC. UAE is a superb jurisdiction to practice finance and law, as you have the DIFC as well as the local courts. I sit in various arbitral panels of GCC and have advised them in framing the rules. They are very accepting of changes. I speak 13 languages and it certainly helps.
As a Certified Independent Director and with your extensive background in finance, what unique perspectives do you bring to corporate governance, and how do you see the role of independent directors evolving in today’s business landscape?
Corporate governance in India is going through a difficult phase right now. Primarily, the need for transparency has grown exponentially and is available only through the SEBI. However, integrity in governance is non negotiable in a private entity too. This prompts investors to actively look out for individuals who can be the ‘true independent’ in protecting their investment and also looking out for the shareholders. This has brought in a whole host of ‘stapled agreements’ in the term-sheets which include the clause that ‘such independent director’ shall be appointed and it is not open to negotiation. Being the Ministry of Corporate Affairs certified Independent Director, it is vital that we live up to the expectations of protecting the entity and to give a fair and an independent assessment. Whistleblower protection in private entities is certainly an area that can be strengthened.
Your involvement with the Government in various capacities is intriguing. Could you explain your role and share some insights into the intersection of policy, investment, and arbitration?
I have always felt that I should give back to society. Hence I teach in various schools for the visually challenged. I happened to meet a person who was a teacher in the school. We opened up and I realised that the person was a Secretary in the Government of India. He was very keen about my expertise. That is how the journey started with advising the Government on various bills and amendments. My work on the Arbitration Act of Maldives was appreciated and I was called in regularly as a person who can give a ‘Second Opinion’ on various laws. I consider it pure coincidence that my suggestions are the ones that finally made it to the law. Arbitration is strange.
With your teaching engagements at prestigious institutions and numerous publications, how do you balance your academic commitments with your professional practice? What motivates you to continue teaching and writing in addition to your legal work?
Teaching keeps the student alive in you. I teach at the top 5 NLUs and 2 QS ranked International universities. Ask my students how I balance the commitments and they will rant about how the classes are frequently rescheduled. However, I have always maintained the top ranked visiting professor status. Writing keeps the child in me alive. Since I don’t talk much, perhaps the best way to communicate is to write. Boring as it may sound, I write about law & medicine, and read the most random Wiki pages when exhausted.
Finally, what advice would you offer to law graduates and aspiring professionals who want to follow a similar path in arbitration, mediation, and law in general, especially in an international context?
Find the anchor in the career that you can latch on to. This is the person who you can ask anything and everything. I am what I am because of my juniors and my students. They call me by my first name (you are free to independently verify this). Arbitration is a practice that is more than what it seems and lesser than what you hear about it. Yes, it can be lucrative, but, be careful when you choose this path. Unlike litigation, where there is a fair amount of material available publicly, arbitration does not enjoy that benefit.
It can be exhausting. It can be nerve wrecking. It can feel like everyone out there is trying to put you down. However, if you know your law, nobody can surpass you.
Can you share a bit about your background and what motivated you to pursue a career in law, especially in areas like Corporate Criminal Liability and White-Collar Crime?
I completed my five-year integrated law degree from Panjab University, Chandigarh in 2012. I belong to a family of non-lawyers, but my sister, who is also a lawyer, inspired me to join the legal profession and showed me its various aspects. I did not have a clear career goal when I was young, unlike many of my classmates and the current generation of students. The only career options I heard from my parents were engineering or commercial airline pilot. Thankfully, my sister guided me towards the law field and helped me make a wise decision.
I started my legal career as a civil lawyer, focusing on Intellectual Property Rights, at the district court level. That was the stage where I discovered my true passion and direction in the law field. Later, I got the chance to work with HMJ Sanjeev Narula, who was then the standing counsel for various government bodies and also had his private practice. He mentored me at the Delhi High Court and exposed me to various fields of law including White-collar and corporate criminal matters. I gained valuable experience working for agencies like the Serious Fraud Investigation Office, Central Bureau of Investigation, the Enforcement Directorate, Directorate of Revenue Intelligence, and others.
When he was elevated, I changed my path and joined Luthra and Luthra. The firm gave me a different perspective and I started representing corporations and individuals instead of government agencies. I think your goals evolve over time, especially after you find out what you are good at or enjoy in the profession. Nowadays, as it has been for the last few years, the motivation that drives me is the intrinsic nature and complexity of an issue or a dispute, which challenges you to come up with creative solutions.
You’ve had a diverse legal career working in different domains such as international commercial arbitration, indirect taxation, and intellectual property rights. How did you develop expertise in these various areas?
I always liked the idea that a lawyer is a jack of all trades and master of none. I discovered early in my career that I had a curiosity to explore more than one area of law. This notion was reinforced when I worked with Mr. Narula on various matters involving different fields of law. His office had a wide range of work, and I got the chance to experience multiple aspects of law. I enjoyed working on new things as it kept my interest alive and my thinking sharp. So, it’s the opportunities that I got and the skills that I developed for them along the way that led to my diverse portfolio. I would say I am the opposite of today’s profession that requires specialization.
Could you describe some of the most challenging cases you’ve worked on, particularly in the context of corporate criminal liability and white-collar crime? What were the key takeaways from those experiences?
One of the most memorable cases that I recall is the series of petitions that challenged SFIO’s power to arrest for fraud under the Companies Act 2013 when it was notified. I was still working for the government then and SFIO had started taking action against individuals and corporations for committing fraud under the companies act after the notification of its arrest powers. It reminded me of the old days (company law board), when I used to assist Mr. Narula in the petitions filed by the government against Satyam computers. Those were the cases where SFIO had done thorough scientific investigation into the affairs of a company, but due to the lack of authority under the old companies act, the agency could only submit a report before the tribunal and seek civil remedies. This changed with the new companies act and especially in 2017, when the arrest powers were notified. SFIO then had broader powers, similar to those exercised by the Enforcement Directorate under the PMLA. With new powers came new challenges to those powers and we had to defend the SFIO’s powers before the Delhi High Court. Since the provision was new for the agency and for us, working with them to overcome the legal obstacles raised by the Petitioners gave us a lot of insight into how these agencies function.
You have extensive experience representing the Central Government. Could you share some insights into working on high-value matters related to sensitive issues, such as policy, treaty investment, and enforcement matters?
I had the opportunity to represent the government in various policy decisions, including its foreign trade policy, international trade protective measures (countervailing duty, safeguard duty – Anti-dumping), investment treaty arbitration matter et.al. One of the most fascinating and enriching learning experiences was when the government introduced the goods and service tax regime in 2016. At that time, I was still navigating my way around the existing indirect tax regime under the Central Excise act and the Finance Act. With the overall shift from a structure that was in effect for decades, it brought a lot of new challenges, ranging from interpretation to implementation to enforcement and so on. That was one of the moments when I witnessed the government and the judiciary being pragmatic and flexible in their approach with the sole aim to assist the assesses.
Then there was the most unique proceeding that the government initiated when Vodafone decided to initiate a second investment treaty arbitration against India, which was based on similar facts. This was the situation where the host country filed a proceeding before its own courts to restrain a foreign investor from proceeding with an arbitration under a Bilateral Investment Protection Agreement, which according to the host was nothing but an abuse of process. This was essentially my first encounter with issues arising out of international vis a vis domestic law – the overlap, comity of courts and the contours of investment protection agreements. Although the government did get the relief it sought – under the proceedings, despite the case being decided against it, the Delhi High Court rendered a judgment covering a lot of issues for the very first time.
One of the most intriguing issues in the enforcement aspect would be the power of agencies like the ED, DRI under the PMLA & Customs Act to record the statement of a person that can be used as evidence against them in a court of law. This is a tremendous power that is somewhat similar to the powers exercised by the Police under the CrpC, but the absence of similar safeguards in their parent statutes made it a very interesting aspect to work on.
Arbitration is one of your main areas of practice. What are some key considerations for businesses and individuals when choosing between domestic and international arbitration? How do you navigate the complexities of multi-jurisdictional shareholders’ disputes?
The reasons for choosing arbitration are constantly changing, but I have seen my domestic clients choose arbitration for a faster dispute resolution mechanism that promises them a quick resolution, especially when the courts are overloaded with their own backlog. However, these reasons are no longer valid as the post award proceedings before the courts cause significant delays that take years before there is any final determination on the disputes. On the international arbitration front, the demand is very simple: neutrality from a legal system that may favor one over the other.
The multi-jurisdictional disputes raise complex issues of jurisdiction, arbitrability of disputes, conflict of laws, enforceability across various legal systems that often become difficult to navigate. The sensible solution is to work with your domestic counterparts who can give you a better insight on the legal system prevailing in their jurisdiction, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel.
You’ve represented clients on a wide range of issues, including cybercrime and social media. Can you elaborate on the legal challenges and strategies associated with these areas, especially with the ever-evolving landscape of technology and privacy?
Cybercrime is a technical and dynamic phenomenon that poses a serious challenge to the law enforcement agencies. They need to be sensitized and equipped to deal with the various forms and manifestations of cybercrime, such as deep fakes, cyber hate, cyber terrorism, and cyber radicalization, which are constantly evolving and outstripping the existing legal norms and standards. They also need to collaborate and coordinate with other national and international authorities to effectively investigate, prosecute, and deter cybercrime, which often transcends the conventional boundaries and categories of the Indian Penal Code.
With your extensive experience in litigation, could you share some insights on how you approach complex contractual and commercial litigation, as well as constitutional matters?
To handle a complex contractual and commercial litigation, start by grasping the contractual relationship and the commercial transaction at the core of the dispute, along with the applicable legal principles and rules. Then pinpoint the main issues and disputes between the parties, and the potential remedies and reliefs that are available or sought. Based on the facts, evidence, and law, devise a clear and coherent strategy and argument to advance or defend the case. Most importantly, prepare and present persuasive and well-structured pleadings, submissions, and oral arguments, and counter the opposing party’s contentions and objections effectively. Moreover, if need be, explore and pursue alternative dispute resolution methods, such as negotiation, mediation, or arbitration, when appropriate and feasible, to achieve a satisfactory and cost-effective outcome. On the other hand, constitutional matters require identifying and raising the constitutional issues involved in the case, and analysing the relevant precedents and their applicability to the facts. The case also needs to be tested on the basic principles, such as jurisdiction, alternate remedy, delay, and latches, which may affect the admissibility and merit of the challenge. The level of difficulty and scrutiny of the challenge may vary depending on the facts of the case.
In your role as a Partner at your firm, you must provide valuable advice to your clients. What are the essential qualities and strategies you employ to provide practical and effective legal advice?
As a Partner at my firm, I have the responsibility and privilege of providing valuable advice to my clients on various legal matters. Some basic tenets that I stick to while doing that is to first and foremost listen and understand their needs, expectations, and concerns with the aim to identify the key points and issues that require consideration. I use my knowledge and experience to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of their case. All of this is done to provide them clear and concise advice (sometimes frank) with accurate and relevant information – which includes explaining the legal principles and rules, the possible outcomes and consequences, and the pros and cons of different options and strategies.
Finally, as someone with a wealth of experience in the legal field, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal profession?
The legal profession is a diverse and dynamic field that offers various challenges and opportunities. You may need to try different options and acquire new skills before you find your ideal practice area or job. Don’t be scared to experiment with new things, especially in the initial year, and adjust to changing situations. You may discover new passions and interests that you never expected. You may not always get the guidance or support that you need, but you can always look for resources and mentors that can help you. Don’t wait for opportunities to come to you but try to create them yourself. Don’t depend on others to solve your problems but find your own solutions. There may be times when you may have to handle complex and sensitive issues and deal with a lot of information and documents. Be cautious and meticulous, reliability and consistency will take you a long way. Never forget, that the legal profession is based on relationships and ethics and requires a high level of integrity and courtesy. You need to be respectful and civil in your communication and respect the rights and views of others, especially your seniors.
Managing Partner of RKP & Associates since 2000! What inspired you to establish your own firm, and how has the journey been so far? Any memorable milestones you’d like to share?
The journey of my legal career started way back in 1997. Fortunately, I was exposed to the intricacies of legal practice and court craftsmanship at a very early stage, and this generated the confidence in me to go all out by 2000. Being an astute observer, I had realised during my initial days of lawyership that this field offers limitless opportunities if you are ready to dedicate yourself. The thought of establishing RKP emanated from my passion towards law and the drive to serve the clients in a more comfortable environment. To be very honest, the initial days of RKP were quite a challenge – tougher than I had envisaged, but like I said your dedication and hard work will always be rewarded. I had started with a very small team, and have gradually expanded not only in my core area of practice, but also in the corporate and M&A arena. It is also heartening to see that my clients have reposed a great extent of faith in me all these years which keep me motivated to harness myself even at this stage. One of the prominent milestones for RKP, I would say, was making our presence in important cities of the country through associate offices. We are looking forward to having our physical offices in all the metro cities and that would be our next milestone.
Apart from the courtroom, you are associated with the Board Advisory Panel of Cerracap Ventures, USA, and A&S Pharma, UK. How do you balance your legal practice with advisory roles for international companies, and what unique challenges does this bring?
It is true that advisory roles are quite challenging because the stakes involved in such roles are quite high. At the same time, not only your legal acumen but business acumen are also tested. Having seen the commercial disputes of corporate houses for a long period of time, I have developed an understanding of the issues these corporate houses face. I use this understanding to mark my contribution in the advisory roles. Another interesting aspect of the advisory role is the difference in culture and working style of the corporates vis-à-vis the workings of litigators. While as a litigator, you have to take quite a stringent approach, this approach has to be adjusted and become more pragmatic when it comes to advisory. Nevertheless, international exposure has given me a broader perspective to understand things and work towards them from a higher horizon.
You’ve been a part of various legal forums, including the Hon’ble Supreme Court of India and National Company Law Tribunal. Can you share a courtroom story or an incident that left a lasting impression on you?
The courtroom experiences have been quite important to understand the intricacies of litigation practice. Court craft is something which can be learnt only by making appearances before the Courts. I will narrate a story which will give you an insight as to how the Bench needs to be convinced persistently with your arguments. During my initial days of career, I was representing a person who had filed a Public Interest Litigation before the Supreme Court. The Bench was of the clear view that the petition was more for a publicity stunt rather than for a cause. Even before I could present my case, I I was stormed with questions by the Bench. At that moment I realised that it is not only the legal grounds on which you present your case, are important but also as to how you present these grounds before the Courts. Over the period of time I have realised that it is equally important to strategize as to where you start your case from so as to make that first impact. Once the Bench starts hearing you and opens the case file, you get that extra moment to make the next strongest point of your case and that’s how you take the Bench to the relevant page of your case and draw a full audience from the Bench.
As an advocate-on-record, you’ve seen the legal landscape evolve. What changes in the legal field do you find most interesting or challenging today?
Well the most interesting development in the legal system is the collegium system. Without commenting on it against the collegium system, the challenging aspect is time constraints with the court and high volume of cases. So when the case is taken up, the lawyers have to make that impact in the few seconds that they get. Also, the virtual courtroom system has also eased off the travelling pressure for the lawyers, especially the lawyers who have multi-forum practice.
Lawyers often have interesting stories about what happens behind the scenes. Can you share a humorous or unexpected moment from your experience in the legal realm that still brings a smile to your face?
This is not my story but I was present in the courtroom when it happened. A junior lawyer was probably making his first appearance. While starting his case he confidently submitted to the judge that he was appearing for the petitioner while in fact he was representing the respondent. In this confusion he started arguing against his own case – after a short while when he realised that he has messed up, he simply concluded his remarks by arguing that all the grounds he just made are the grounds which may be taken by the other side, and now he would rebut all these arguments one by one. It was quite hilarious but at the same time, he ought to have been given the credit for flipping his side in no time with his witty conclusion.
We’ve heard you’re quite the reader. If you were to recommend a book that isn’t related to law but impacted your perspective, what would it be, and why?
Well, being an advocate, reading becomes a compulsion initially which subsequently graduates into a habit. This habit allows you to take inspiration from different parts of the world through books. I personally believe that good books can shape up your life. One book that I always recommend to young professionals is “Ikigai: The Japanese Secret to a Long and Happy Life” authored by “Héctor García and Francesc Miralles”. This book motivates you to put yourself into work to lead a happy and healthy life. I see these days that young professionals do not indulge in reading books, rather they rely much more on social media content. My take on this is that nothing could replace books.
When you’re not immersed in legal matters, how do you unwind? Any hobbies or activities you turn to for relaxation?
Being the senior lawyer in the Firm, I hardly get time to unwind myself. But whenever I can spare some time, I love to travel. I have travelled to different parts of the world in the last decade. It opens up your mind and gives you a broader horizon to understand people and their culture.
Your expertise extends to providing legal advisory on Mergers & Acquisitions and foreign direct investment. If you could give one piece of advice to young lawyers entering this field, what would it be?
Laws around M&A and FDI are quite complex and dynamic which keep evolving as per the industry requirements. Any young lawyer intending to take up these practices must be thorough not only with the legal provisions but also with the market development. M&A requires a lot of understanding of the business of companies and the idea behind the transactions. Lot depends upon what kind of exposure you have got because every transaction has unique requirements and understanding those requirements enable you to deep dive into the detailing around it. Having said that, M&A is one of the most interesting and universal practices. People who have keenness of indulging in comprehensive legal documentation and finding innovative legal solutions must try their hand in this practice.
Your journey from clearing the Combined Defense Services exam to becoming a successful litigator is quite unique. How did your initial interest in defense services shape your approach to litigation, and what inspired you to take the path of law after your graduation?
I have been brought up in a household where serving society has been engrained since childhood. I wanted to join the Indian army after graduating from school itself but that point in time, there were no entries, after 12th class, in defense forces for females therefore I decided to take up law with the thought that if I don’t get to wear the olive green, I will serve the nation by doing litigation. The interest basically is derived from the thought of serving the nation in whichever little way possible. I had seen my father do a lot of hard work and I had also seen the satisfaction he used to get from his work, which was another factor that inspired me.
Discipline, hard work, integrity and perseverance are the things I have seen in all the soldiers and these things have shaped my initial years in the litigation.
Therefore, litigation is one such field where you get to the opportunity to giveback by doing Pro Bono work but good work for those who can’t afford legal fees. It is a very satisfying feeling which cannot be described in words.
Being a graduate from Gujarat National Law University and having revamped your father’s chamber into a full-time litigation firm, what challenges did you face in transforming a longstanding setup, and how do you think it has contributed to the firm’s success today?
I owe a lot to GNLU. I evolved as a person in those five years and found few of the most amazing friends from my law school. The learning, thinking on your feet, decision making is all that I developed in the course of those 5 years which comes handy in litigation. I was lucky to have had a background but even in 2012-2013, it was very hard for a lot of people to digest that a girl had joined hardcore litigation in Indore and was also calling spade a spade. The entire restructuring invited a lot of hostility but it was my father’s support and faith that kept me going. My office was established in 1946 by my great grandfather and to change the system in place was questioned by many but I thought one has to evolve with time and that restructuring has helped the firm in establishing its clientele, Pan India. With a good team, I am now able to diversify the work we do and we now specialize in Labour law but also undertake Arbitration, Criminal, Consumer, Commercial, and NCLT matters.
In addition to your legal expertise, you are a certified trainer under the Prevention of Sexual Harassment at the workplace act. Could you share your experience in training students and professionals on their rights and duties under the POSH act, and why is this area of law important to you?
I think today sexual harassment at workplace is the most rampant issue and it’s a subject close to heart. It’s such an enriching experience to interact with young minds who have so much going on in their head and are full of ideas and questions. I feel delighted that I get a chance to shape their impressionable minds with the right knowledge. If they are told about their rights and duties at an early stage then automatically, they will go as professionals with right knowledge, compassion and attitude towards others at the workplace.
Training professionals is a different ball game altogether, they are all individuals with years of work experience and it takes more convincing to make them open their minds to take in this new field of law, which is of paramount importance for smooth functioning of any office.
The issue pertaining to awareness under the POSH act is close to my heart because like the majority girls, I have also been victim to harassment in some way or the other and I think it is my duty to make everyone aware of the law that exists and educate everyone about their rights and duties.
As the captain of the High Court Women’s Cricket team, how do you manage to find time for sports amidst a demanding legal career? And how has your experience in sports influenced your approach to leadership and teamwork?
I have been into sports since school and I truly believe that playing sports helps build one’s personality. If you are truly passionate about something, you might sleep an hour less but take out time for the thing you are passionate about. Likewise, I take time out from my schedule to play a sport or take boxing classes or some physical activity because litigation is such a stressful job that you need some way to vent it all out and cycling and sports have worked for me.
As you continue to make significant contributions in various domains, what future goals or milestones do you envision for yourself and your firm?
There is a lot to achieve and as a lot of seniors from my field say, by putting in 10 years, you just started crawling in the field of litigation. I envision opening branch offices beginning from Jabalpur and Bhopal and then one in Delhi in next few years. I also want to establish my firm as one of the best Service law firms in the industry. Originating from Indore, it will not be easy but who likes easy.
We’ve learned about your professional endeavors. Could you share a bit about your personal interests or hobbies that bring balance to your life outside the courtroom?
I absolutely love travelling. Whenever I get a chance, I travel. I have changed the phrase work hard, party harder to work hard, travel harder. I think the best kind of experience and learning one gets is only through travel. I like doing artistic workshops on weekends, like pottery making, resin art, mandala art etc., so I spend my Sunday engaging in all such activities which are satisfying.
Having a deep connection with Indore, can you share a hidden gem or favorite spot in the city that you would recommend to someone visiting for the first time?
This is the only city I relate to and I think a place called Ralamandal is a hidden treasure we have. It’s a hill top on the bypass road where in you have to trek up to the top and you can go and meditate there. There is a small museum and platform which gives the necessary space for Yoga meditation and other such activities. Its breezy and you get a panoramic view of the entire city. It is breathtaking during monsoons and you get to see all shades of green, that the nature has to offer.
Drawing from your experiences, what advice would you offer to aspiring lawyers and young professionals navigating the legal landscape, especially those aspiring to balance legal practice with diverse interests? I think it is important to balance legal practice with your interests because litigation can be very stressful and you need an outlet to channelize your energy. One advice which I really want to give is that hard work will never leave your side, come what may and perseverance is the key to success in litigation. Frustration is temporary and there are no short cuts in this field. Be faithful and sincere towards your client and integrity towards bar and bench is the roadmap to success, in my humble opinion.
Shaurya, your journey from being a law student to Advocate on Record and Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh is quite remarkable. How do you recall your starting years as a legal professional? Please share your insights and struggles which you came across to reach here.
Being a first generation lawyer, I knew little to nothing about the legal profession when I stepped into law school. My early internships exposed me to the hallowed corridors of the Supreme Court and that is when I was truly motivated and determined to someday have a practice of my own in the Supreme Court. My starting years as a legal professional included some of the cliched’ travails of having a low salary, extremely long working hours, and the existential dread of how I would ‘make it’ in the profession.
As luck would have it however, I was blessed with a wonderful mentor, Mr. Amit Kumar, Sr. Advocate who took me under his wings and it is under his tutelage that I gained invaluable experience as a practicing advocate. I never refused any assignment that came my way and I learnt to always be prepared in each matter, and be ready to grasp any opportunity. On certain occasions when my requests for Passovers in matters were turned down, and I was requested to argue the matter by the Bench, I found myself prepared and equipped to handle the matter. This led to initial successes and brought with it much needed optimism and motivated me to keep going. In my view, the biggest struggle for a first generation lawyer in litigation is to remain motivated, however, I overcame this challenge by remaining disciplined and focused on improving my skills. Eventually, my skill sets improved, and with it came more work and a steady flow of income.
While hard work is often the answer to most of the challenges in the profession, it is also important to give the required importance to other facets of personal life such as physical and mental health. Having a close circle of friends in the early days of the profession helped me maintain a balance between the personal and the professional aspects of life and proved instrumental in helping me navigate the more challenging days of the profession.
As the Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh, you handle a wide range of litigations, from criminal disputes to matters related to Housing, Stamps, and Registration. What aspects of your role do you find most challenging and rewarding?
Being the standing counsel for a State as large as Uttar Pradesh is a challenging but rewarding assignment. The biggest challenge being the sheer volume and diversity of cases one has to handle. On most days, the assignment of Standing Counsel requires drafting multiple drafts, apart from having to argue several cases before different benches of the Supreme Court, therefore it is also important to keep abreast with the latest developments in the legal field. Having to prepare for a heavy docket of matters, particularly on admission hearing days, i.e. Mondays and Fridays requires a strong support system. The importance of a good team of lawyers, clerks and office staff therefore cannot be overstated. In my personal opinion, one must try and identify a good team of colleagues, juniors and support staff as early as possible and invest in creating a team as early as possible. The diversity of cases to be handled also poses quite a challenge as the preparation of criminal cases requires a different approach when compared to civil cases. In particular, Land acquisition disputes are usually voluminous and therefore require rigorous preparation.
The most rewarding aspect of the assignment is the sheer exposure that it provides before the Supreme Court. As Standing Counsel, one gets to appear and argue before almost all courts of the Supreme Court, brief Senior Advocates, all of which helps gather invaluable experience. The role of a Standing Counsel also provides an in-depth insight into the functioning of the Government. These are all extremely rewarding aspects of practice as Standing Counsel before the Hon’ble Supreme Court. To have the opportunity to handle such an assignment at a relatively young age is proving to be an extremely humbling experience.
As a Panel Counsel for the Government of Meghalaya, you were part of the team that successfully lifted the ban on coal mining. How do you approach high-profile cases, and what role does legal strategy play in influencing policy changes?
Legal Strategy is one of the most critical aspects in litigation. A good legal strategy acts as the bedrock on which the entire case is constructed, therefore considerable efforts must be spent in working out an effective strategy before proceeding with any case. The issue concerning the ban on illegal coal mining in the State of Meghalaya is one of the most unique cases I have handled till date. The issue pertained to the practice of indigenous mining techniques by the tribal residents of the State of Meghalaya which was deemed unsafe and environmentally harmful, resulting in the imposition of a complete ban by the Hon’ble National Green Tribunal in 2014. When the matter was earmarked to our team, before proceeding with the matter, we examined the historical aspects of the land tenure system in the State and its implications on the constitutional rights of the tribal residents of the State of Meghalaya. We were able to chalk out a legal strategy which indicated that the tribals are the absolute owner of the land and also the minerals extracted from the land, due to the constitutional status conferred to the State of Meghalaya as a 6th Schedule State, and also due to the land tenure system. Consequently, the Hon’ble Supreme Court upheld the contention that the both the land and minerals belong to the tribals, and therefore lifted the absolute ban on coal mining in the State, by permitting the mining to resume under the applicable legal regime of the Mines and Minerals (Development and Regulation) Act, 1957. The said judgment is a watershed moment, particularly for the State of Meghalaya, as nowhere else in the country has the Supreme Court recognised the right of the landowner over the minerals that may be found in his land. I personally do not distinguish between ‘high profile’ cases and other cases in terms of my approach to the matter. Surely, the pressure in ‘high profile’ cases is higher as the stakes involved for the clients are usually higher. However, I try to approach the matter like any other matter since I believe that as professionals, lawyers must remain objective in their assessment of a case.
Beyond the courtroom, you contribute to legal academia and write columns for popular legal websites. What motivates you to engage in these activities, and how do they complement your personal & professional life?
My motivation for engaging in academic activities comes from my family background. My mother has been an educator for over 30 years and therefore I have always had a keen interest in academia. I still make time to write regular articles on various issues that I come across during my practice as I find that writing articles only solidifies the understanding of a particular area of law. Writing articles encourages discussion and debate on contemporary topics of law and I find that sharing of views is the best way to contribute to the development of the law.
Your academic achievements include winning Best Memorial in the Oxford Media Law Moot Court Competition. How has participating in moot court competitions shaped your advocacy skills, and what advice would you give to law students interested in mooting?
Mooting was one of the most engaging activities during law school. It cultivated several habits which I till date implement in my professional life. Mooting required extreme discipline and dedication as it required one to gain subject matter knowledge on the topic involved to effectively deal with the issues raised in the moot proposition. This often involved our team staying up several nights reading up on new areas of law and refining our understanding of these areas. So far as helping shape advocacy skills is concerned, mooting trains one to develop arguments. It requires you to put your best argument first and find simple ways of explaining relatively complicated concepts. These aspects of mooting are very helpful in shaping advocacy skills. In my view, mooting, debating and other such activities are also a good way to gain confidence in public speaking which is an important skill required by any lawyer.
Coming to the personal side, what makes you happy personally other than Law? What keeps you motivated and inspired?
Music is a great source of solace and happiness for me. In particular, I enjoy collecting vinyl records and old cassettes.
Looking ahead, Are there any specific aspirations or goals you’re aiming to achieve in the coming years?
If I were asked the same question a few years ago, I may have answered with a specific career goal in mind, but over the years if experience has taught me anything, it is that being happy, healthy and enjoying each day as it comes is the most important facet. I hope to focus on finding a good work life balance going forward.
Reflecting on your journey, what advice would you offer to law students and young legal professionals aiming to build a successful career in litigation, especially in the evolving legal landscape of India?
One must have a voracious appetite for reading as it is the only way to stay abreast of the ever evolving legal landscape. A career in litigation is more of a marathon than a sprint. Pace yourself. While there is absolutely no substitute to hard work, but it’s important to find balance between the personal and professional.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers and young freshers.
I am an Advocate-on-Record (AOR) at the Supreme Court of India. I started practising in 2014 with Wadhwa Law Chambers, Delhi before setting up my own full service law chamber (with two other partners) in 2022.
Our key practice areas include arbitrations, Insolvency and Bankruptcy, high stake property litigation, Civil and Commercial Litigation, Criminal and constitutional litigation, Intellectual Property and MSME related litigation with a focus on litigation before Hon’ble Delhi High Court, NCLT/NCLAT and the Hon’ble Supreme Court.
During the course of last 10 years, I have had the opportunity to represent various Indian and multinational companies/government departments before various courts and tribunals in Delhi NCR, Punjab and Haryana High Court, Allahabad High Court, Bombay High Court and other courts in Lucknow, Jabalpur and Himachal Pradesh.
You have a strong academic background, having completed your B.A. LL.B (Hons.) from Dr. RML National Law University. How has your academic journey influenced your approach to legal practice and problem-solving?
I was fortunate to have spent my five years at law school with some of the brightest minds from across the country – who are now some of my closest friends. All of us continue to learn from each other during the course of our respective professional journeys as practising lawyers, at law firms, in house counsels – as we did during our time at law school. Apart from the usual academic rigour, RMLNLU gave me an excellent set of peers.
While law practice can keep you occupied 7 days a week, I try to keep in touch with the academia by teaching seminar courses/taking guest lectures. Infact, preparations for my lectures at NLU Delhi and NUJS Kolkata have often helped me discover new lines of arguments and case laws – which eventually help you while making submissions in court/drafting your pleadings.
Could you describe your current role as an Advocate on Record at the Supreme Court of India? What types of cases do you handle, and what are your primary responsibilities?
My initial years in law practice gave me a lot of exposure to original side litigation at the Delhi High Court, NCLT/NCLAT and District Courts. Original side practice teaches you imperative litigation skills which involves asking the right questions from the client and procuring documents, drafting the pleadings only after one looks up the correct position of law, and most importantly, being precise and not verbose with the pleadings.
It is imperative that a lawyer keeps the above in mind while drafting plaints in Suits, statement of claims in arbitrations and insolvency actions, since the client may not be able to rectify these errors at the Appellate stage.
Having a strong original side practice background always gives you an edge with AOR practice at the Hon’ble Supreme Court. This skill set has certainly helped me with my AOR practice where I take up matters relating to arbitrations, Insolvency and Bankruptcy, high stake property litigation, Civil and Commercial Litigation, Criminal and constitutional litigation, Intellectual Property and MSME related litigation
With your involvement in MSME-related litigation and practice, how do you approach defending recovery actions initiated by MSMEs? What unique challenges and legal considerations come into play in such cases?
With the Government allowing for a completely self-declaration based registration under the MSME Act, a huge number of money recovery actions are now initiated under the MSME Act. If the dispute is contested and not settled before the Facilitation Council, it converts into a regular arbitration. The obvious benefits are better rates of interest given to MSMEs under the MSME Act when compared to regular arbitrations/civil actions for unpaid dues.
However, the self-declaration regime does not require any physical inspection of the proposed MSME unit prior to its registration under the Act. This is resulting in many vendors registering themselves as MSMEs overnight (who may or may not meet the required thresholds of turnover and investments under law for registration as an MSME) and filing their claims under the MSME Act. In my humble opinion, the entire self-declaration regime of registration needs a complete overhaul at least as far as recovery actions under the MSME Act are concerned.
There are however some remedies in the current legal framework to address the aforesaid issue, though not very effective and practical. Some other remedies under the MSME Act include criminal prosecution against the buyer which are not explored routinely but can be very effective, especially in high stake MSME litigation.
In addition to your legal practice, you have a background in writing and travelling. How has your interest in writing come up and what are some of your favourite places you have travelled to.
I used to write ‘letters to the editor’ to various newspapers while I was in school, which my father had suggested. I still have a whole collection of those cut outs kept with me! It is indeed a great way to develop comprehension and improve writing early on – especially for litigating lawyers where you are required to churn out drafts on an everyday basis. I would also write some pieces here and there in college, but the litigation rigour does not allow much time for that anymore.
The RIFF music festival at Jodhpur with its unique dawn/dusk classical concerts, the backwaters at Kerala, the unexplored Turkish coastline and old town Prague have been some of my favourite places to visit.
With a significant portion of your career spent in representing various entities, what advice would you give to aspiring lawyers, What are some key lessons or insights you have learned along your journey that you would like to share with them?
One should explore as many practice areas in the initial few years of practice and focus on reading as many precedents/case laws.Apart from the basics, being a nice and an easy person to work with is a very under-rated skill!
Could you please share about your formative years of litigation practice in the Supreme Court?
In 2007, after enrolling as an advocate, I set off from Kerala to Delhi with only 5,000 rupees in my pocket, driven by burning determination and dreams in my eyes, all in pursuit of my aspirations. The metropolitan city was new, the people were unknown, my Hindi language skills weren’t fluent, adapting to the fast-moving culture proved challenging, extreme weather posed difficulties, housing rents were high, and adjusting to North Indian food was tough. Moreover, at that point, I didn’t know a single person in the legal circle in Delhi. Despite all odds, I managed to survive.
Fortunately, a friend referred me to a Supreme Court lawyer, leading to opportunities to work with two leading law firms in the Supreme Court. I am grateful to my mentor, Mr. Anand Sanjay Nuli, the founder of the law firm Nuli and Nuli. In a short period, I immersed myself in the intricacies of litigation practice, becoming familiar with the procedures of most courts and tribunals in Delhi.
Starting to receive cases from my home state of Kerala, I launched my independent practice in 2012. Following my successful clearance of the AOR exam in 2015 on my first attempt, I never looked back: my contacts multiplied, cases poured in, and my workload increased day by day.
Your legal journey has spanned from handling cases in the Supreme Court to contributing to legal academia. What motivated you to pursue both active litigation and a role as a Visiting Faculty at various law schools? How do these two aspects complement each other in your professional life?
While pursuing an LLM from Amity University, several friends encouraged me to take the UGC-NET exam and fortunately, I cleared it in 2015. Technically being qualified as an Assistant Professor ignited my interest in academia and led me to take up teaching assignments in law schools and business schools.
Active litigation challenges me to stay current with legal developments and sharpens my analytical skills. It offers real-world experiences I bring to the classroom, giving students practical insights beyond theories. Simultaneously, academia allows me to delve deeper into legal theories, engage eager minds, and contribute to shaping future legal professionals.
Teaching keeps me intellectually engaged, refines my communication for the courtroom, and broadens my perspective through a constant exchange of ideas. This synergy between litigation and academia enriches my understanding of legal concepts and enhances my effectiveness both as a lawyer and educator.
Your involvement in drafting Private Member Bills is noteworthy. Can you share a bit about the inspiration behind bills like the Anglo-Indian Welfare Bill and The Waste Management and Recycling Bill?
I provided advice to several Members of Parliament (Lok Sabha), irrespective of their political affiliations. During this time, the Lok Sabha MP named Dr. Richard Hay expressed a desire to address the unique needs and concerns of the Anglo-Indian community within the legal framework. This community possesses a distinct cultural identity and faces challenges that may require tailored legislative attention.
Another legislative initiative involved waste management, aiming to align India’s practices with cleaner standards akin to Western countries. The inspiration behind The Waste Management and Recycling Bill stemmed from the urgent need to address environmental concerns, specifically focusing on efficient waste management and promoting recycling practices. Extensive research on similar laws in other countries formed the foundation for drafting these bills.
Both Private Member’s Bills were introduced in different Lok Sabha sessions, and I felt immensely gratified and proud to have had the opportunity to apply my legislative skills to these initiatives. Dr. Richard Hay later expressed gratitude in his book, acknowledging the significant role I played in the formulation of these two Bills—an overwhelmingly fulfilling experience for me.
As an advocate-on-record with a focus on election laws, you’ve completed a Ph.D. in the same field. What prompted you to delve into this area, and how do your academic pursuits enhance your ability to navigate complex legal issues in electoral matters?
Firstly, I completed my LLM in Constitutional Law. Secondly, while advising a few Members of Parliament, I became increasingly fascinated by the captivating nature of election laws due to their intrinsic connection to democracy, governance, and the fundamental rights of citizens. Both these led me to choose a PhD topic focused on the critical study of statutory provisions and judicial decisions regarding hate speeches for electoral gain.
Besides, my decision to specialize in election laws stems from a profound interest in upholding democratic principles and ensuring fair and transparent electoral processes. Academic pursuits in this field significantly enhance one’s ability to navigate complex legal issues in electoral matters. Researching and studying electoral laws at an advanced level equips individuals with a comprehensive understanding of election procedures, electoral disputes, and policy insights, providing an edge in handling intricate electoral legal issues.
Winning the Family Medicine Advocacy Award in 2019 is a unique accomplishment. How has your legal work contributed to the cause of family medicine, and what role do you see for lawyers in advocating for broader societal issues beyond the courtroom?
The award, conferred upon me by the Academy of Family Physicians of India (AFPI), recognized my efforts in advocating for the establishment of a separate department of family medicine in all hospitals and incorporating a course on family medicine into the MBBS curriculum through a Writ Petition filed in the Supreme Court. Consequently, the Court directed the Union of India to make an appropriate decision, which ultimately resulted in a positive conclusion. This decision significantly benefited family medicine practitioners and millions of our countrymen by supporting accessible and quality healthcare.
Lawyers can play a pivotal role in advocating for broader societal issues beyond the courtroom through various means. One such avenue is policy advocacy, wherein lawyers engage in lobbying efforts and collaborate closely with policymakers to shape laws and policies addressing social justice, human rights, environmental sustainability, healthcare, education, and more. Another effective approach is filing Public Interest Litigation (PIL) or representing marginalised groups, NGOs, or individuals in legal cases that challenge unjust policies, protect civil liberties, and seek remedies for systemic issues. Other impactful methods include legal education and empowerment, raising public awareness through media, Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR), conducting research, and providing data-driven solutions for societal challenges.
Overall, lawyers serve as advocates, advisors, educators, and catalysts for societal change. Their expertise in law and understanding of legal systems position them as crucial agents for advocating broader societal issues, striving to create a fairer, more just, and inclusive society.
You’ve been involved in some ground-breaking Constitutional Bench cases. Can you share a moment from your career that stands out as particularly impactful or challenging?
Several cases I handled were notably challenging, with two among them considered landmark judgments. One instance involved the judgement pronounced by the Constitution Bench in the Sabarimala temple case, permitting women’s entry into the temple. In this case, I filed the petition on behalf of the royal family of Pandalam who constructed the Lord Ayyappa temple at Sabarimala, advocating for the continuation of tradition. This decision caused significant upheaval in the state of Kerala. Another significant case was a Constitution Bench judgement that decriminalized the provision of adultery i.e., Section 497 from the Indian Penal Code (IPC). I filed a Writ Petition representing an activist named Joseph Shine. Both of these cases are widely regarded as landmark judgments.
One instance that I can’t forget in my career was the research and drafting that my legal team did challenging the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) in the Supreme Court on behalf of one Member of the Parliament named T.N. Prathapan. We completed the same in just a matter of 6 hours starting from 1:00 am till 7:00 am. That night was a marathon, intense and unforgettable.
The list is endless, encompassing various subject matters of law—ranging from service jurisprudence to environmental laws, civil remedies to criminal matters, constitutional issues to corporate advisories, arbitration proceedings to family disputes, and more. I am thankful to my colleagues Mr. Vibhor Ahlawat, Ms. Vijayalakshmi Raju, Ms. Somlagna Biswas, Ms. Deepika Singh, and Ms. Disha Puri for their relentless efforts and contributions, without which I can’t be where I am now.
Beyond the courtroom, we know you’re into Artificial Intelligence and enjoy a game of online chess. Is this your way to unwind or do you have different hobbies that help you relax and recharge?
For the past few years, I have immersed myself in reading about Artificial Intelligence (AI). In the realm of litigation practice, embracing technology, especially AI has become increasingly essential. My focus lies on advocating for ethical AI, a concern that unfortunately garners attention from only a few.
Additionally, I am deeply intrigued by billionaire stories. I used to watch their interviews that reveal their tales spotlighting resilience, innovation, and their strategies for success. Exploring their stories unveils their mindsets, work ethics, and pivotal choices. It’s not just about wealth, but also their visions, failures, and societal contributions, making their journeys both compelling and relatable.
Being a Visiting Faculty at various law schools, what motivates you to engage with the next generation of legal minds? Any advice for budding lawyers based on your experiences?
Interacting with budding legal minds as a Visiting Faculty is profoundly fulfilling. The drive behind this engagement springs from a fervent passion for imparting knowledge, moulding future legal luminaries, and witnessing their transformative journey. It’s truly inspiring to play a part in the growth of the next generation, fostering and guiding them through the intricate pathways of the legal world.
My advice to budding lawyers: embrace lifelong learning; hone communication skills; uphold ethical standards all the time; build a strong network; prioritise clients over your personal and political inclination, and be anti-fragile. Always, embrace technology and AI-driven solutions in litigation as well as non-litigation. That’s the future.
