Tag: Litigation

  • Yuvraj Narvankar, Advocate, Bombay High Court,on cyber law, cyber forensics, and his experience

    Yuvraj Narvankar, Advocate, Bombay High Court,on cyber law, cyber forensics, and his experience

    yuvraj-narvankar-2Yuvraj Narvankar graduated from ILS, Pune in 2010. He has already set up a reputed practice at the Bombay High Court. His expertise in Cyber Law and Cyber Forensics has led the Mumbai Police to consult him in various matters from time to time.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • The role of a mentor in the first few years of graduation,
    • Importance of grades
    • Working on important cases

     

    Tell us about how you decided to study law.

    My father is an advocate practising in District Court. It was possibly those interesting discussions in my home about court life and clients which made me choose this profession.

    I was always fascinated by people who have the gift of the gab and I always thought of this profession as noble and very influential. I always liked to speak and convince people on some topic and my participation and accolades in several elocution and debating competitions were out of my desire to talk to people than any urge to win.

    The fascinating thing which I liked most about the law was its nature. I always felt that law is not alien to our life but every part of it is a law. Law is nothing but a codified common sense. If you think that something should be this way and if your logic is correct, you would inevitably find law or case-law to that effect. So the power of thinking on your own legs is something which makes this faculty most interesting field to study and explore.

     

    Have you even been motivated by the desire to revolutionize the legal regime in the country?

    I was very active in the field of Legal Aid and was given an award for my contribution in Legal Aid. When I interacted with people from rural areas, I realized the gross ignorance of laws and exploitation of this very ignorance by a few prominent people. And when I entered the profession, fortunately, I was able to espouse several social causes and they also turned out to be milestones in my career.

     

    What are the tips and strategies you would like to share with our readers who are currently law students?

    (Yuvraj has been among the top rankers in LL.B from Pune University and LL.M from University of Mumbai.)

    For me every subject of law was interesting. In my college days, I was fascinated by books by Lord Denning and writings of other authors like Bryan Garner, Blackstone. It’s interesting to study the genesis of concepts which have shaped legal regimes over centuries. I always wondered about the sophistication of faculty of law in the countries like UK and USA. Just for example for us drafting is all about the precedents and forms but that that is a craft in itself and has to be treated like one. Even oral submission and persuasion are amazing arts and can’t be left to be learnt at an advanced stage of your career. In fact law college is such a platform where you can test all your skills without fear of any professional blunder or injuring your clients’ interests. It’s like the more you sweat in the practice, less you will bleed in the war. I think the best strategy or tip to study law is to study it out of interest and not because it’s in your syllabus. For example, if you are reading a section, put yourself in the role of the client who would be in the trouble which the section seeks to redress and then read the Section again. The section in statute/Article is like key and the problem/case is like a lock. The problem with our educational system is that we are taught to use the key without lock and when you have to actually open the lock (A case in your professional life) you would have forgotten about the key.

    So the best way out is to apply every section practically or look for a situation in your life where you can apply any proposition of law you have learnt. This way you would imbibe law in your thinking and law would be no more in black and white but would be a an amazing colourful spectrum and a panacea for all your problems.

    And I firmly believe that any rank and Gold Medal is a mere by-product of your studies. It may follow or it may not but the actual capital you gain is your habit of hard working, knowledge and thinking process. The knowledge of law does not mean knowing a law by heart but to know how to interpret the law.

     

    Do you think top notch grades have given you an advantage over others in your arena of litigation?

    Possibly. As Steve Jobs says, it’s all about connecting the dots. Today standing in a court of law while arguing a matter, no one bothers about my rank or medal. But to get here I had to find some mentor, and the ranks helped me to get good mentor and seniors. So it won’t be wrong to say that the ranks did help me to get along with the right persons and at the right time which paved my way to a career in litigation. Because, though unfortunate, rank or marks is the symbol of your capability which can testify about your capacity to some stranger. And once you get a good launch pad, your performance will speak for itself and you have to put your medals and certificates in the cold storage. Gold medal, certificate, or law degree is like a driving license which allows you to drive the Car. Once you get behind the wheel, its your performance that matters and gets you to the destination and not your License. Because when you drive a car, what helps you is the knowledge you gained for obtaining the license and not the license.

     

    How difficult would you say the first few years after graduation was for you?

    The first few years after graduation are really tough and I won’t describe them as we all know about them. Particularly the starters in litigation know this feeling. In fact, since I always aspired to work in Litigation, I didn’t go for campus placement as I was looking for some hands-on experience in litigation. After my graduation I could make it in one Litigation Firm so I could sustain in Mumbai. This was the time when I did all kinds of matters and appeared extensively in all forums. In fact, all the senior members of the Bar are your mentors and teach you something. Even some Judges teach you law very well. The Court Room is the best class room a law student can get but unfortunately he gets it after he graduates.

    After my stint in the law firm, I took a bold decision of resigning and joined the chambers of Mr. Rafique Dada, former Addnl. Solicitor General of India. It’s only after you move out of your comfort zone and take a plunge into uncertainty that you can achieve something. You must have the guts to move out when you know the ‘cheese’ is turning ‘stale’ though the journey to the unknown is scary.

    It’s because you have to manage without any fixed source of income and what is more deadly is to be without any work. I could learn a great deal of court craft with my senior who is one of the living legends of Bombay Bar.

    My bolder decision came when I decided to even leave his chamber and start on my own without having any place to operate and firm client base. But I always had strong sense of urgency and strong urge to see this world of Litigation without any shelter of firm or senior over my head. Soon I found myself struggling with all odds.

    But I always kept moving ahead somehow and it would not be fair to boast that all my efforts were directed to achieve some goal or aim. Frankly speaking those were only efforts and one must keep walking and one day he would be able to connect the dots. So it would be unfair to other possible modes of walking if I illustrate mine. Only one thing is at the core and that is faith in yourself and in your capability.

     

    Can you tell us about the law diploma you pursued from NUJS offered by iPleaders?

    Yes. I have taken up several courses like Cyber Law, Housing Law, etc and the latest one being business law course from NUJS. Firstly, any course keeps your learning faculty agile which may otherwise die because soon we get the feeling of contentment. What I liked about the course of business law from NUJS is the curriculum and practical approach of the faculty. I found all the faculty very knowledgeable and very pro active. In fact iPleaders should go ahead and try to make this course part of curriculum in colleges which would benefit students who aspire to become a litigator or a law firm lawyer.

     

    How difficult would you say it is for a fresh law graduate to get inducted into a litigation firm?

    Yes. It is a challenge for someone like me who doesn’t opt for campus placement because PPOs can make things a lot easier. If you start early and prove your mettle, the law firms would certainly welcome you. Your rank and merit also goes a long way in securing a good position in a law firm. If your basics are good, nothing can stop you.

    The one who wants to make it in litigation, must make it a point to work in a trial court, howsoever uncomfortable it seems at the outset. Because, that is the first step of ladder and it gives you an edge over others when you argue in High Court and Supreme Court.

     

    How helpful has been mooting in litigation?

    Tremendously helpful. Moot Court is like training on simulator. You learn without any casualty. I did several national and state level moots and I really learnt a lot from them. Only make it a point to learn from every moot. No academic/moot performance should be the same as the previous one. It’s a race with yourself and not with anyone else. And you have to come out of this ‘illusion of competition’. I think one must focus on making oneself better every day and small daily professional improvements will pile up and take one to the Zenith.

     

    How did your first hearing as an independent practitioner go?

    First thing which I would like to share is about the cases a junior gets to handle. One must remember that you can’t get open and shut cases in the beginning and rather you would get hopeless cases to argue and the briefs which others have said no to. But make it a point to sweat on the small stuff and get into details and try to make something out of those cases. It may seem very hard at first,but once you are master of these ‘messy causes’, you would enjoy working on good briefs.

    For an arguing lawyer every case is close to his heart but to mention a few:

    To begin, within a month of joining the Bar, I had an opportunity to argue a very interesting case on a preliminary issue of Jurisdiction (S.9A of CPC) against one giant at the Bar. It was a very interesting case to argue as there was one Apex Court Judgment against us and issue was narrow and no more res integra. But after hearing me for a  whole day, the court dismissed the opponents’ application for framing preliminary issue. To my interest, this was the case which reaffirmed my faith that law is all about your own thinking and you can turn the case if you think a little outside the box and genuinely convey your emotions to the judge without hurting the ego of the senior advocate for the opponent.

    In fact this case in the first week itself, gave tremendous boost to my confidence and went a long way in shaping my career.

    Later, I appeared in the much spoken about Air India employees case on behalf of the Cabin Crew members and it was a great learning experience.

    When I was working with my senior, I had an occasion to work on BCCI/IPL matter, Coal scam matter and Goa mining case in Supreme Court.

    Then, I had an occasion to conduct some good criminal trials and conducted cross examinations of the witnesses leading to acquittals of my clients. The well conducted cross examination is sheer joy and great learning experience and gives insight into human mind and interplay of emotions.

    Then, I had an interesting case of bogus multiple Development Rights Certificates (TDRs) obtained on the same piece of land and the same was done very cleverly by the concerned revenue officers in connivance with developers. As most of the TDR/DRCs were sold in the open market and already purchased and consumed by the builders, several Senior Counsels were roped in to defend the case. I had to study a truckload of documents to exactly know, where the things went wrong and put in equal amount of efforts to convince the High Court about it, as the High Court is never willing to go into factual details in Writ Jurisdiction.

    Finally, I succeeded and irrespective of huge financial stakes, the High Court set aside all the TDRs/DRCs. This case received very wide media coverage and acted as deterrent to Land Mafias.

    The next interesting matter I argued was of ‘Collection of Toll’ issue in Western Maharashtra. In fact, this issue was very sensitive due to widespread opposition and local violence. As the project was on the verge of completion and the builder had already invested thousands of crores of rupees there was tremendous opposition in the Court of law and the courts were very reluctant to give any interim relief as this was a financial matter. Due to vital constitutional issues, even Advocate General of Maharashtra was issued notice and he appeared and argued extensively. I had to give all my devotion to this case to understand several technical and financial intricacies of PPP. I argued the matter for three consecutive days and the counsels for respondents also took equal time to respond.

    Finally the Judgment was in my favour and first time the unconditional stay was given to the collection of Toll.

    I also represented the students of engineering where we challenged the vires of the one arbitrary provision of the regulations framed under the parent legislation and finally succeeded to the big relief for the students.

    Recently, I appeared in the illegal hoarding matters wherein substantive directions were issued by the High Court, on the lines of Vishakha Judgment, for immediate removal of the illegal hoardings and political banners in Maharashtra and Goa.

    One interesting criminal case I argued was on the illegal detention of the person where after taking the court through the historical meaning of the term custody and concepts related thereto, I could drive home my point and succeed.

    Recently four of my judgements were reported in Arbitration Law, Port Trust laws and Civil procedure law wherein some trend setting judgments were passed by the High Court.

     

    What is your workday like?

    When you are working in a firm the chances are great that work may fall in predictable pattern. But if you pursue an independent practice, every moment is new and challenging. My day begins at around 8 a.m. and my office remains open till 11/11.30 p.m. Unlike a firm, you have to set your own deadlines and it’s entirely upto you to have your work-life balance. Fortunately my staff is competent and the same is very necessary to operate an independent law office.

    The day in court is always full of challenges and you never know what may come from the bench and also from the Counsel appearing against you. Full preparation and mastery over facts is the best assistant you can ever have in the Court; rest of the things fall in place. This is the world of ‘No-Excuses’.

     

    What prompted you to leave a firm and start independent practice?

    I would say it was my own gut feeling which prompted me to leave a firm and the same turned out to be the big decision for me. Today when anyone comes to me to join my office, my advice is to learn the basics of drafting and pleading from a litigation firm because unfortunately, though seniors in Bar are very competent, tremendous workload makes it impossible for them to take some time out and teach the junior. Whereas in the Firm you are made to work and you realize the importance of Discipline. Sometimes to maintain a proper file may matter more than arguing the matter.

    But working with an independent practitioner has its own advantages and if you can keep your eyes open, that is the most fertile ground to learn and excel. Start appearing as early as possible.

    And finally you can’t swim by watching others swimming so get into the water, although it may seem rough.

     

    How is your experience presenting lectures on subjects like Cyber Law and Cyber Forensics?

    (The Mumbai Police Dept. consults Yuvraj on Cyber Law issues from time to time.)

    Yes. I have delivered several lectures across Maharashtra in Bar Associations, Rotary Clubs etc. My subjects vary from Cyber Laws, Succession among Muslim laws, Euthanasia etc. I have completed my advanced course in Cyber laws and Forensics with 1st rank. I have represented the police department in several matters involving cyber law issues and forensic investigation. In one of the recent cases, the accused was refusing to cooperate and refused to give access to his laptops and approached High Court espousing his right of privacy. We contested the case on merits and we succeeded. Maybe it’s the faith you gain in course of time which makes people come to you and entrust their cases.

     

    Many notable jurists have stated that it is important to know the judge more than the case. How much truth do you find in this?

    So true, but not more than your case. You have to read the Judge and give what he wants and not what you want to give. Don’t suppress anything and be absolutely fair to the Judge.

    I would go a step further. You have to know every person you are dealing with and should be able to express yourself accordingly. At one moment you may be talking to some Law Firms’ partner you are briefed by and the next moment you may find yourself advising a client from distant rural area. You must be able to connect with and adapt yourself to the person you are dealing with.

     

    How difficult would you say it is to build a reputed practice?

    It depends on what kind of matters you have argued and how much you are known within and outside your circle. Fortunately, I had an occasion to argue some good matters which went a long way and also got me firm clientele. Hard work is something I would not comment on as it is something which is not some special quality for a lawyer but has to be a part of his nature.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to litigate just after graduation?

    Keep your eyes open and you will see abundant opportunities floating around you. Work hard and read beyond the books as a lawyer cannot sit in an ivory tower and operate. Litigation is fun and a way of life. Focus on your strengths and work on your weaknesses and excel. You must not restrict yourself and build walls around you. Only one word of caution, in the early days of success, many unscrupulous people (Which are many in this profession) may try to use your knowledge or expertise to get something which is unfair or unethical etc. So a junior lawyer must have the guts to say no to such briefs and be always loyal to the court and dignity of this noble profession. Delayed success is always better than the tainted one.

    Best of luck !

  • Ashok GV, Managing Partner, CorLit Legal, on pro-bono work and striving for success

    Ashok GV, Managing Partner, CorLit Legal, on pro-bono work and striving for success

    ashok-gv-1Ashok G.V., a graduate from Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies in 2011. He is currently a Managing Partner at Corlit Legal. He is involved in a lot of social work being the Co-Founder at Crisis Prevention and Survivor Support Centre. He has coordinated cross border trade mark litigation in the United State of America. He has also dedicated himself as a Member of the Ethics Committee, Apollo Hospitals, Bangalore.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time as an undergraduate
    • His pro-bono and humanitarian work
    • His diverse experience

     

    How did you gravitate towards law?

    I always held a keen interest in writing and debating. During my high school days, I spent a large amount of time debating on the UNICEF Voices of Youth Forum on the internet. All that time spent debating issues of socio-economic interest, made me realise that I enjoyed making an argument. Plus, my father, Mr. G.K.V. Murthy, is a very accomplished Advocate practising in the High Court of Karnataka for more than two decades. I had some confusion as to whether I should pursue journalism or law, but seeing the kind of impact my father had in the lives of his clients convinced me that law is where I wanted to be.

     

    Being from BILS, do you think that a non-NLU made any difference to your career?

    I was always particular about my subject, never about the university. Be it BILS or National Law Universities, they all come with their own strengths and opportunities and one has to try and make the best of what one has.

    At BILS, my faculty members were always very encouraging and supportive of all my initiatives. I found a fantastic business partner with whom I could start CorLit Legal in BILS. Plus, it was only because of BILS that I was able to find the latitude to garner practical work experience of close to five years.  If I had to instead spend five years in a NLU, I would have been confined for the most part to campus life, leading to loss of exposure to the real world of law. That five years of work experience, gave me the skills, experience, platform and network necessary to start CorLit Legal along with my partner Sourabh.

    Of course, some of my friends from various National Law Schools managed to go abroad for prestigious moot court competitions and international internships. I might have lost out on those opportunities. So it does not matter. BILS or NLU, you can still do just fine as long as you are willing to define your priorities properly and make decisions you can live with.

     

    How important is mooting and what effect does it have on one’s CV?

    (Ashok has participated in various moot court competitions like the Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot and the Philip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court.)

    I have always loved litigation. Moot Courts were the only respite in a course that largely emphasises on theory. Participating in Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot and the Philip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court gave me exposure to IPR and International Law and helped me understand what problems in these fields look like. I learnt how to research well from these competitions, a skill that comes in handy for my career now. However, litigation in real life is far more challenging and stimulating than moot court competitions. I would urge law students to look at moot court competitions as purely a learning exercise.

     

    Tell us about your earlier association with Global Law Inc. and Meta Yage IP Strategy Consulting.

    I have found virtually every field of law interesting. Intellectual Property Rights holds a special place, because my first internship was with an IP Consulting Firm, Meta Yage IP Strategy Consulting. One of my assignments there involved drafting portions of a Patent Application and my work received very encouraging feedback. It was the first time I felt confident that I could make a career for myself in the field of law. I continue to remain very good friends with the folks from Meta Yage.

    After I completed my internship at Meta Yage, I went on to work as a Junior Associate at Global Law Inc. My senior there, Mr. M.S. Srinivasa, is arguably one of the sharpest Indirect Tax Attorneys in the country today. I spent a good eighteen months working under him in the field of Indirect Tax Litigation where I picked up critical skills such as drafting and goal oriented research. But the most prized skill from that experience was learning the extent of clerical work that goes into each case and the amount of diligence required to execute it.

    The diploma course was very insightful as it gave us considerable insights into the practice of Intellectual Property Law. The course was designed beautifully and did not waste any time dwelling into irrelevant things. The legal fraternity would be wise to learn from such courses, to make their own syllabus more useful and relevant to a Law Student’s career.

     

    Tell us about the kind of work you do as the Consulting Partner at Startup Amigo.

    Startup Amigo is a platform designed to advise and assist businesses, from the stage of ideation to the launch of the product or service portfolio. It is the brain child of my good friend, Abhishek Raju who has been one of my biggest sources of support and encouragement since the time I entered law school. In the short span of time since its inception, it has forged impressive partnerships with some of Asia and Europe’s leading management institutions and trade bodies. Its sector specialisation includes Space Technology, Water Resource Management, Health care and Defence Consulting, just to name a few.

    My role as a consulting partner, is to help Startup Amigo’s clients understand the sociological context and regulatory framework which exists in India and to help them evolve customised business strategies for the Indian Market. My engagement includes one on one consulting assignments and delivering lectures on relevant areas of law, during seminars and workshops organised by Startup Amigo and its partner organisations.

     

    What does your role as Managing Partner of Corlit Legal entail?

    CorLit Legal is a full practice law firm with practice areas encompassing Intellectual Property Rights, Taxation, Company Law and Food and Beverage Legislations. Besides Sourabh and I, who are its Founding and Managing Partners, we have six other Advocates with over twenty years of experience who came on board as Domain Partners. Clients are usually referred to us by someone we know. There is no secret to be honest. We have tried to get to know people, for the sake of knowing them and we never spoke to anyone with the intention of seeking any business. If the relationship translates into an Attorney-Client relationship, great! If not, we have managed to make new friends who can teach us something about their field of experience. CorLit Legal was never about the money. It has always been a personal journey to become more relevant and useful to the world we are part of.

     

    You are a part of the Ethics Committee, Apollo Hospitals, Bangalore. What are your primary responsibilities as such?

    The Ethics Committee is a body which reviews proposals for clinical research involving new medicines and therapeutic processes. Its primary duty is to ensure that the subjects who have volunteered for clinical research are adequately protected and ethical considerations surrounding the same are fully addressed. I was appointed primarily on account of my experience in the field of human rights and my responsibility is to inject that perspective into the deliberations of the Committee.

     

    Our readers will also be curious to know about your publications and your love for writing.

    (Ashok is the author of Harmonizing Internal Policy and Trade Mark Law and Losing Focus-An analysis of the Justice Verma Committee Report. You also have your own blog.

    Writing has been a very helpful companion. I don’t even consider it a hobby, because like how I need to breathe, I feel compelled to write. As an amateur writer, I published mainly in a women’s magazine called Eve’s Times, which provided a platform to unknown writers like myself. Writing has been an introspective process for me and largely responsible for all the progress I have made as an individual. No matter how tiring the profession gets or how demanding of my time it is, I will perhaps never give up writing.

     

    How does it feel to be recognized for the social initiatives taken by you?

    First of all, the ethical obligations for a lawyer make it incumbent upon us to devote some time to pro bono activities. Therefore, I wish to clarify that we are doing what we are duty bound to do as Advocates. Sourabh and I always knew that CorLit Legal was going to be a body that would leverage its business law practice, for the purpose of creating a sustainable pro bono program. We were lucky to find Enfold Proactive Health Trust, with whom we have collaborated to work in the field of helping survivors of sexual violence.

    Having said that, the activists that we have worked with, be it at Enfold or Dr. Ravindranath Shanbhag or Sinu Joseph or Ramesh at the Forward Foundation, they are the heroes who deserve recognition because they have gone above and beyond their professions and duties. Many of them in fact are well known and Sinu was even featured on “Chai with Lakshmi” and Ted for her work in the field of Menstrual Hygiene. Our associations with our clients and these activists are the highlight of our work at CorLit Legal. We are happy to support them however we can, although our contribution, when compared to theirs, fares poorly in comparison. As regards the recognition, Sourabh and I could care less whether CorLit is recognised or not. It’s always about the client and the work, and never about us.

     

    How did you get the thought of forming Crisis Prevention and Survivor Support Centre?

    Sexual violence is violence with a lot of power and control dynamics associated with it. After reading the works of John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood, I knew I wanted to do some work in that field and wrote extensively for internet based publications on the same subject. In 2011, we were approached by someone I knew, stating that she was assaulted and being stalked. By that time, I had a friend, Sahu who is a fantastic counsellor. We both worked together in helping the client and she eventually managed to stand up to her perpetrator and successfully warned him off. We later got in touch with Dr. Shaibya Saldanha at Enfold with the idea of creating a platform where survivors of sexual violence can find legal, counselling and medical intervention in one place free of cost. We have been working together since then.

    It is important to temper down our idealism though. India has a fantastic legislative framework, but lacks the infrastructure, manpower and attitude to implement it. The law can always become better; no doubt, but it’s also quite up to the job even now. On the other hand, the attitudes of the people on the ground are more difficult to deal with.  I don’t have any dreams or illusions about being a change maker. For us, it’s just about doing what we can do to make the life of that one survivor a little less anxious and difficult.

     

    Do you take interns for your firm?

    Well given I myself come from a humble academic background, I would go less by a person’s resume and more by the person. I usually have a chat with students who wish to intern and if I think they will be a good fit at CorLit Legal, I would be more than happy to provide a “call back”. The difficulty for us is how we make the intern’s time worthwhile for him or her. When we are dealing with an intern, we are very conscious of our responsibility to ensure they go back feeling less ignorant and more enlightened about the profession. But with so much of time spent at Court, it becomes a difficult process. So if a candidate shows initiative and respect for his or her own time, it would earn him or her, a brownie point for sure.

     

    Where do you see yourself in the long-run?

    I want to teach. Not just law, but perhaps even the humanities. Therefore, higher studies are definitely part of my plan. I joined the profession, only because I felt this experience would make me a better faculty for my students. 10 years from now, I hope to spend more time on research, writing and teaching.

     

    What all do you consider in making strategic career moves?

    I never planned any of my moves nor did I ever strategise. I have a supportive family and I managed to find the right people at the right time by sheer luck, thanks mostly to being at BILS where I found my collaborators at both CorLit Legal and Startup Amigo. Building relationships based on sincerity and mutual respect is the most important goal for any professional, including a lawyer.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are faced with decisive choices?

    If I have to dish out advice, then do not follow the herd. Make decisions based on your own introspection and not because of someone else’s advice. Have an open mind. Most importantly, don’t succumb to the fear psychosis that tells you to freak out or get left behind the competition. As my good friend Abhishek at Startup Amigo told me, “Collaborate and don’t compete”. Be nice to everyone, for the sake of civility and you will be just fine. Lastly, remember that Law Practice is a humbling experience. It requires endurance and demands resilience. It’s a 24/7 engagement and the situations you encounter can make you feel profoundly ignorant all the time. Therefore, it’s always important to be open to learning and never assume that one is the best at what he or she does.

  • Dharmendra Chatur, Advocate, King & Partridge, on choosing law over engineering, topping his batch in law school, and plans for the future

    Dharmendra Chatur, Advocate, King & Partridge, on choosing law over engineering, topping his batch in law school, and plans for the future

    Dharmendra Chatur graduated from Christ University School of Law, Bangalore in 2013, where he was class Valedictorian and was awarded  the Basant Kumar Sarala Birla Gold Medal for being the Best Outgoing Student. Currently he is an advocate at King & Partridge.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His experience
    • Requisite skills for being an efficient litigator
    • How to apply for internship at King & Partridge  and research assistantships

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’m Dharmendra Chatur. I’m currently working as an Advocate at King & Partridge, which is one of the oldest law firms in India (established in 1904). During law school, I was an active mooter and published a few articles in international and national journals. I had a brief stint with debating as well. Being interested in academic writing and research, I was involved in research on and continue to be interested in the fields of law and public policy. I currently follow developments in the areas such as legal and judicial reforms and health and medical law.

     

    dharmendra-chaturWhy did you decide to study law?

    Honestly, studying law was never a career choice during school. I took up Science in my 11th and 12th and had decided to do engineering (following the herd!). In fact, I enrolled myself into the Mechatronics Engineering programme at Monash University, Australia (Malaysia campus) and spent one month there (February-March 2008) before deciding to call it quits. The realization that I did not want to be an engineer dawned upon me only after I began my engineering courses! However, I had a great time being an international student at Monash – although for a limited time.

    After I returned to India, I did a bit of soul-searching and introspection and thought of giving law a try. Being a first generation college-goer (in any course), I was fortunate to have no family pressure to choose a particular course. The lack of pressure therefore allowed me to explore possibilities with my career choices. I joined LST for a one month crash course to see if I would be interested in law; and prepared for the first edition of the CLAT. Being unsure if I had done well in CLAT, I enrolled myself into Christ University mainly because of the excellent faculty and campus facilities there.

     

    According to you what are the qualities of a good lawyer?

    Speaking from my limited exposure to the legal profession, a good lawyer must have three qualities – at the very least – firstly, he/she must be sociable and polite; second, he/she must have a good grasp of legal knowledge (both theoretical and practical); third, he/she must aspire to be independent in thought, inclination and action to develop a dispassionate mind.

     

    What were your areas of interest while you were studying law?

    I was interested in public law generally and a few subject areas in private law especially company law, law of contracts and so on. In addition, I was also fascinated by public international law and conflict of laws.

     

    You are working with King and Partridge right now. What is a day at work like?

    As I am a practicing Advocate at King & Partridge, my work day involves preparation for and assisting my senior colleagues with appearances in the High Court of Karnataka/Civil courts/Arbitrations in Bangalore.

     

     What skills and attributes are important according to you to hold a job like yours?

    I believe three skills are important for any litigation job in an Advocate’s formative years: strong grounding in basic aspects of the law, immense patience to learn and grow and learning by observation.

    To law students, I would suggest that they must make consistent efforts to understand certain basic concepts in all areas of law – this will hold them in good stead when they begin (a beginner’s advantage, in a way). In addition, you must better your research, critical thinking and argumentative skills – all of which you can learn by mooting, debating etc. In essence, please utilize every opportunity law school provides you to become your own person – with a voice to be heard.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of your job?

    The transition from law school to law practice is both challenging and illuminating. Challenging because law schools do not prepare students to face a practical world (which is why some Advocates shine without having attended many classes in law school). However, I believe that time well-spent at law school can only make one better equipped. My transition was illuminating because you get exposed to a very different world which requires strategic planning, execution among other things. Also, you figure that law and justice are ‘personal’, in the sense that from different judges, the same facts and circumstances may elicit responses. Therefore, a successful Advocate is, in my opinion, is a person who can gauge what a judge requires and prepares/presents a case accordingly.

     

    Is it easy to have a work-life balance in this profession?

    Successfully managing a work-life balance in this profession is very subjective as it is dependent on a variety of factors. These factors may be the firm’s environment, your commitments and so on.

    At King & Partridge, we are fortunate to have a culture that encourages a solid work ethic permitting enough time to rejuvenate so we can be enthusiastic to get to work every Monday morning.

     

    How do internships help law aspirants?

    Internships are essential to ascertain what kind of legal practice one would be suited to. Although figuring that out may take some time, pursuing a variety of internships will only help a law student decide his/her career options.

     

    Does your organisation take interns?

    Yes. The interns may apply to the following e-mail address: kingpart@vsnl.net with their CV and a covering e-mail for an internship. Based on availability of slots and an assessment of the profile of the applicant, internships would be confirmed. It usually takes a week to respond to internship applications/queries.

     

    How does a good academic background help in the profession?

    A sound academic background helps an Advocate in developing legal arguments from a variety of angles. Having said that, it is not necessary that only people will good academic backgrounds can succeed in the profession – because the skill set required to succeed is very different than mere academic merit.

     

    How important are extra-curricular activities for a legal career?

    (Dharmendra has won moots and published papers in various journals as a student.)

    Moots helped me get over my stage fear and develop confidence as a speaker. They are also helpful in developing research and argumentative skills which are skills useful in a legal career.

    Publications in journals helped me learn good legal writing and developing arguments in writing.

    Having said that, I believe that both moots/publications/ other extra-curricular activities are just ‘kick-starts’ and becoming a good Advocate is only possible by developing an attitude of constant learning and re-learning.

     

    How was the experience of being a Research Assistant at Centre of Law and Policy Research and Azim Premji University (Law, Governance and Development Initiative)?

    My Research Assistantships at both CLPR and AzimPremji University were an attempt to explore if I could develop an aptitude for law and public policy research. They are both great places to intern/work at if one is seriously considering a career in law and public policy analysis/research. The details for applying for internships/research assistantships are available on the respective websites of the organizations: http://clpr.org.in and http://azimpremjiuniversity.edu.in/lgdi

     

    What career goals have you set for yourself?

    I aspire to be a good and respected Advocate. I am aware that this will be long journey and perseverance is the key to be focused and never lose hope.

     

    Is there any success mantra that you follow which you would like to share with our readers?

    Doggedness. Diligence. Dispassion.

  • Jeet Bhatt, Advocate, High Court, Gujarat, on an LL.M from QMUL, and leaving a lucrative career in corporate law for litigation

    Jeet Bhatt, Advocate, High Court, Gujarat, on an LL.M from QMUL, and leaving a lucrative career in corporate law for litigation

    Jeet Bhatt graduated from the first batch of GNLU, Gandhinagar, in 2009. After working for almost a year, he went on to pursue an LL.M in  Corporate and Commercial Law from Queen Mary University of London. After finishing his Masters he had the opportunity to work at Mark & Co. in property matters.

    He later quit Mark & Co. and came back to Gujarat and joined full-fledged litigation practice.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Requirements and selection procedure for an LL.M program at QMUL
    • Work experience at Mark & Co., London
    • Starting up with litigation practice at Gujarat High Court.

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer practicing in the High Court of Gujarat. I graduated from Gujarat National Law University in 2009 and got enrolled in the Bar. I practiced Law for a year and then went to London in 2010 to pursue my Masters in Corporate and Commercial Law from Queen Mary University of London. I completed my Masters in 2011 and came back to join litigation. It has been five years since I began my journey as a Lawyer and ten years since I joined Gujarat National Law University and I am going to share with you my vivid and some not so vivid experiences in the Legal Profession. I do belong to the Family of Lawyers for it runs in my blood since three generations.

     

    How were the formative years of your schooling?

    Formative years of my schooling were similar to that of an average guy less interested in studies and more interested in everything else than studies. I was always interested in sports and used to play cricket for my school. I had opted for Science in Higher Secondary and it turned out to be the greatest challenge of my life. Though I could not pass out with flying colours, with the marks that I got in my 12th Standard, my life surely started looking Black and White with Graduation in Arts the only formidable option.

     

    Why did you choose law as a career?

    I believe it was more by chance then by choice that I got into the Legal Profession. While I was still considering the few options that I had, I decided to go to Courts and spent a day observing what my father did for a living. He took me to the Court. Without understanding anything about law I was certainly lost in this Fort like High Court of Gujarat. I saw my father presenting a matter before the Judge and that point I thought to myself that it is the easiest thing to do in this world (I did not knew then how wrong I would be proved later). So that was it by the stroke of that midnight hour I did have the tryst with destiny and I started considering myself to be a lawyer. Fortunately GNLU started in 2004 and as it was at its nascent stage somehow by god’s grace I cleared the entrance examination got myself admitted and then there was no looking back.

     

    Tell us about your years in law school.

    Being the first batch of GNLU everything about it was exciting. Being the first batch there were no seniors and therefore no one to help if you end up at the wrong place doing the wrong things. But we managed and we learnt from our own mistakes. Fortunately for us we had some great faculties and teachers who really inspired us to learn law and made our academic life interesting. Learning the Law is not just about sitting in class and attending lectures, it is not just reading the provisions and rules it is much more than that. It requires an interdisciplinary approach and a constant aptitude for learning. It requires asking questions and finding answers. GNLU provided us that platform where we could build a strong foundation. Law School is all about acquiring the correct skills required for the Legal Profession. It is about investing your valuable time in the right direction. GNLU focussed on research and that immensely helped us in improving our research skills. With internships ranging from NGO’s to Law Firms to Courts and International Organisations being part of the curriculum it truly helped in gaining the first hand experience of the Legal Profession. Internships should be done very seriously as it can open up lot of avenues for the students.

    Time at law school should not just be restricted to academics and studies. One has to find time for extracurricular and cultural/other activities for it helps in developing the overall personality which is very important in today’s competitive market.

     

    When did you decide to pursue Masters?

    I decided in my last year at GNLU that I would still like to pursue higher studies before getting into full time litigation. When I graduated in 2009 I did start asking lawyers in the High Court that whether an LL.M from Foreign University would be helpful in Litigation. Majority of them said it would be a waste of time and money and you would lose a valuable year in Litigation. I then asked few lawyers who had been to foreign Universities for higher studies and they motivated me to go and pursue masters from Foreign University. Despite of all adversities I was firm of pursuing my academic interests.

    My reason for studying abroad was both personal and professional requirement plus LL.M in UK is a one year program whereas in India it was two years at that point in time. Arbitration was one subject which I was really keen on studying and therefore considering that London being the hub of Arbitration I decided on doing my Masters in a University located in London.

     

    How important are grades for an illustrious LL.M degree? What is more important for a successful candidature: grades or work experience?

    Grades are most important for getting admission in a reputed University abroad. You need to have a distinguished academic career to be placed in the top Universities abroad. They require you to have a good academic record but good internships and recommendation letters do help. Work experience is not a requirement for Universities but I would certainly recommend students to work for few years, gain considerable knowledge of the subject in which they want to pursue masters and then apply to universities for further studies. Experience helps a lot and it makes more sense to go abroad after having a few years work experience. LL.M programs in Universities abroad are basically structured to cater the needs of foreign students and therefore experience of few years really helps a lot as most of the students coming from other countries have around three to four years working experience. Therefore having work experience prior to going abroad would be certainly beneficial.

     

    Can you tell our readers about how you shortlisted universities for your masters?

    The first and foremost thing to do is to know in which subject you want to pursue your masters. The Universities abroad give a wide range of subjects which one can choose and therefore depending on which area of law one needs to specialise accordingly you must decide the University. I was very keen on specialising in Arbitration laws and therefore I chose Queen Mary University of London as it has the best faculties in UK for Arbitration. School of Arbitration in QMUL has an excellent program for LLM which is considered better than KCL, UCL as well as LSE and therefore I chose QMUL over other Universities. One has to do a preliminary research and be sure where he wants to study and in which subjects depending on that they must apply to Universities. Application procedure is simple and that the Universities websites provides all the necessary details regarding the same. But one must start this entire exercise one year in advance.

     

    Tell us about your time at Queen Mary.

    What happens in Queen Mary stays in Queen Mary (jokes apart) but yes I will surely share my academic experience. My time at QMUL was truly enriching and enlightening. I was exposed to 500 other students who had come to pursue LL.M from more than 100 countries. It took one week to get introduced to each other. From graduates to people having more than 10 years experience in top law firms to some having their own firms in different countries were my batch mates. With one year experience in Litigation I tried my best to match to them and to adjust to such an intellectual environment surely took a toll but after meeting fellow Indians I knew I was not alone (no offence meant). The first few weeks are popularly known as shopping weeks where we are allowed to attend all the classes ranging more than 100 subjects of law starting from Arbitration to Banking to Copyright to Design, Finance and you name it. Out of all the varied modules that were offered we had to choose 4 modules which was again a hell of a task. Having worked for more than a year, again attending classes and going to college did seem a task but by the end of the first month it all sinked in and I found the new educational system quite suited to my expectations and I got a lot of time for myself where I had the luxury to read and study the subjects I was interested in. Honestly I did not want academic pressure as I wanted to have the freedom to choose what interested me and I got the perfect academic environment. Being in QMUL you get the access to the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies (IALS) which has the best library in the World.

    Having 4 classes to attend in a week it didn’t seem much of a pressure initially and having just moved in to a city like London you need free time to know the city (it is very important). I really enjoyed the tutorial system where for a batch of 10 students there is one tutor with whom you do lot of case studies. It was unique in the sense that you get so many different perspectives from students coming from different jurisdiction and it was truly enriching in every possible manner. It was a different reality and one must surely experience it. If today someone asks me for my advice on studying abroad I would definitely recommend that, provided you make the most of it.

    QMUL Campus is like a lively city within the University. Students Union is one of the most powerful Unions in UK and is bustling with so many activities. From volunteering to learning different languages to teaching to sightseeing everything you need you get it. It is so well connected to all the Universities and colleges and you get the chance to interact with people from so many nationalities. Living in the University accommodation has many advantages though it might be bit expensive but it is definitely worth it. Socialising and communication is a very important aspect of the program it helps tremendously in our profession.

     

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    While pursuing LL.M could you intern at any firm in London?

    Yes I did get a chance to participate in many other activities happening in London and around the campus. I did attend a study tour to Brussels to visit the European Union and its parliament and to visit the International Court of Justice in Hague as well as the International Criminal Court and did get to see the proceedings going at the court. There are opportunities to intern during the course but one has to choose the timings wisely as it should not end up affecting your classes and tutorials.

     

    How did your appointment at Mark and Co. Solicitors take place?

    I would say I got lucky to get an appointment at Mark & Co. Solicitors. I happened to meet the partner of the firm at the airport through a common friend. We stuck a good chord and that was it. I had the opportunity to work in a Law Firm in London. I worked there for a few months before I decided that I want to get back to litigation in India. Mark & Co. had a lot of NRI clients, it dealt with a lot of property issues. One important aspect of firms in UK and lawyers in particular is that they certainly want to avoid litigation and going to courts would be the last option. It certainly is very different from our approach as we want every possible dispute or no dispute to go to courts for adjudication. I could not resist the charm of being in Litigation in India and I decided I wanted to get back in Gujarat High Court.

     

    What influenced your decision to work in the litigation sector?

    Though I did work in a Leading Law firm in Gujarat for a year and I am still associated with it but I purely deal with Litigation. I tried to do both but Non-lit corporate work is not my cup of tea. I like to be a part of all the action that is going on in the Courts. Being in litigation should not be treated like being in a job. It is surely not an employment it is much more than that. One requires a lot of perseverance and patience along with passion to do well in litigation.

     

     Is it better to work in the corporate sector for a few years before starting litigation?

    Certainly corporate jobs are much more lucrative and why shouldn’t a student prefer it over litigation? Being in litigation is a very tough decision to make and to survive in litigation is even tougher. One has to devote himself completely to do well in litigation knowing that it does not pay well in the initial years. My first salary was Rs. 2500/-pm. I do not want to discourage students from entering litigation but it has to be a very conscious and well thought decision. One needs to be absolutely sure to be in litigation. Litigation is something that you need to learn from scratch. Learning the law and practicing law are at different ends of the spectrum. It requires completely different set of skills and temperament which comes only through experience. Real court room is completely different from moot court rooms. Being a good mooter to becoming a good litigating lawyer is a different ball game altogether.

     

    What can the law schools do to encourage more people into litigation?

    Law Schools have made their purpose to encourage students to get into Corporate Sector. The purpose of Law Schools should be to make students good litigating lawyers. It does require a paradigm shift in its approach. Students are taught to run after big packages and plush offices and it certainly takes away the cream into non-lit sector. Students need to be taught how to survive in Litigation and how to do well in it. If they are encouraged to be in litigation they can surely do well.

     

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice?

    Even after five years I still feel I am in the early days of my practice. Every day is a new learning day. Coming from a family of lawyers surely helps at the entry point. You do get guidance and work but then you have to build it on your own. I did face lot of challenges in understanding the procedures and functioning of the courts and the registry. From extracting the relevant information from clients to filing of the petition is a long drawn process, presenting the matter comes last. One has to know this nitty gritty of filing a case and availing the right remedy in law before hand. Getting the eye for details and getting to the crux of the matter is very important and it comes gradually. Sitting in Court and observing the proceedings is a must in the initial years. Presenting the matter before the court is also an art which requires a lot of training and experience. Many times after arguing I felt that I should have said this or said that or I missed to show the important facts or law on that matter. Litigation is full of challenges and I have faced some very tough times in court. Fortunately I have had good mentors and the seniors in the Gujarat High Courts are very supportive and helpful. To sum it up my five years experience in the High Court has been very satisfying. Though small but I have had some significant moments in my career, Senior Judge of the High Court was so impressed with my arguments in one matter that he went on to record it in the order although I lost the case but that went a long way to build some reputation. Few judgments where I appeared got reported in law journals and in few, law was settled.

     

    What would be your message to law students who wish to start their own litigation practice?

    There is no short-cut to hard work, no over-night success stories in this profession. You have to build your career slowly and steadily. Choose a good senior and prove your mettle to him. Figure out your strengths and start working on your weaknesses. Acquire the correct set of skills required and keep on improving them. Read and be up-to-date with judgments. Prepare thoroughly. Be humble and never forget you are in a noble profession. Work ethically and wait for the right opportunities. Remember what my senior always told me “Don’t just strive to become a successful lawyer strive to become an eminent lawyer”.

     

  • Shishir Dholakia, Senior Counsel, Supreme Court, on a career in Arbitration in India and the White Industries effect

    Shishir Dholakia, Senior Counsel, Supreme Court, on a career in Arbitration in India and the White Industries effect

    Mr. Shishir Dholakia is a Senior Counsel at the Supreme Court of India with 45 years of experience in litigation practice, over 1000+ cases with specialization in arbitration, commercial and tax laws. He is a leading expert on arbitration law, in particular on the value and applicability of the UNCITRAL Model Law to India.

    The GNLU Digital Media Team had the opportunity to interview him at ‘Changing Face of Arbitration’ seminar about some very specific areas of the Arbitration Law in India.

     

    What would be your advice to law students who wish to take up arbitration as a career?

     

    What kind of skills must a student have if he/she wants to take-up arbitration?

     

    What are your comments on the current state of Arbitration Law in India?

     

    After the recent White Industries award which went against India, what do you think shall be the implication on the Arbitration regime of our country?

     

    Certain International Commentators have taken a counter view and they have argued that the host state should keep an eye on functioning on Judiciary. What are your views?

     

    Some newspaper reports has suggested that the Govt. of India has started revising all its BITs after this award. What do you think can be done for improving the investment law regime as a whole?

  • Shezin Hussain on comparative Legal Practice of Bangladesh and India and organising Women’s T20

    Shezin Hussain on comparative Legal Practice of Bangladesh and India and organising Women’s T20

    shezin-h4Shezin Hussain graduated from NUJS, Kolkata in 2009. Being a Bangladeshi citizen educated in India she has the insights of the legal systems of both the countries. After graduating from NUJS, she completed her LL.M. from Southeast University, taught as a guest lecturer at Metropolitan University, Sylhet, and has been a practicing lawyer at the Judges’ Court at Sylhet.

    She has also been an Investigation Officer for BRAC which is the largest NGO in the world. Most amazingly being a passionate sportsperson she has had the opportunity of organising the latest ICC Women’s T20 World Cup 2014 among all her commitments.

    In this interview she has talked about:

    • Life at NUJS and interning at places in India and Bangladesh
    • LL.M. from Southeast University, Dhaka
    • Organising the ICC Women’s T20
    • Being an investigation officer at BRAC
    • The comparative legal practice of India and Bangladesh

     

    Our readers mainly consist of young lawyers and law students, how would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    Hi, I am Shezin W. Hussain residing in Sylhet, Bangladesh. Currently I am practicing as an Advocate at the Judge’s Court, Sylhet. Apart from that I’m working as guest Lecturer for the Department of Law & Justice, Metropolitan University, Sylhet and a political fellow for Democracy International, a USAID Agency.

     

    You finished your schooling in India. What prompted you to pursue your education in India? How were your formative years as a school student? Did you partake of all activities in school?

    It was solely my parent’s decision to send me to India to complete my schooling. Both my parents were involved (Mom is still involved) in politics, due to which they couldn’t spend much time on me and my siblings, hence they sent us away to boarding schools for better education.

    During my early school days, I focused more on my academics; hence I worked on my grades instead of concentrating on other activities. Eventually, when my grades started soaring upwards, I started participating in various co-curricular activities.

     

    How did the thought of pursuing a career in law cross your mind? Did you have lawyers in your family who motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    I never thought of entering the legal profession, it was my dad’s decision that I take up law as a subject after I had completed ISC in 2004.

    My grandfather was a practicing Advocate in the Judge’s Court, Sylhet but I had lost him while I was in Standard VI, so I wasn’t actually motivated by him. It was more of my dad’s decision. Now that I don’t have my father to see me pursuing my career, I feel lucky to have had a father who anticipated the potential in me and asked me to tread the path of the legal profession.

     

    What prompted you to consider NUJS, Kolkata for your legal studies? How did you get to know about it? Which other universities were in your shortlist?

    My mother, while visiting Kolkata in November 2003, came to know about this University in some newspaper. She had visited the University and collected the application form, which she later posted me. I was preparing for the ISC exam, scheduled in March 2004, I was asked to fill up the application form and post it back to the University. This was the first and last University I had applied for. I didn’t consider looking for any other Universities.

     

    Please share some of your memorable experiences at NUJS, Kolkata. What made your college life exciting? How well do you think your education at NUJS prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    Securing a place along with other meritorious students made me wonder how I ended up there.

    Initially life in NUJS was hectic, nerve wrecking & challenging. I was not a brilliant student but more of a mediocre student; hence I had to struggle with the study pressure in the beginning. Eventually, when I had settled in, things started to fall into place. My grades stabilised and I could engage in other extra-curricular activities.

    The years I spent at NUJS have been the best 5 years of my life, I made wonderful friends, discovered the vast arena of legal education, and ventured the city of Kolkata in every possible way. Overall, it was a great experience.

    The legal education that I received from NUJS, has helped me imparting knowledge to my students during my teaching experiences. It has also equipped me to deal with the legal complexities of litigation.

     

    Tell us about your internships. Any remarkable internship experience which shaped up your career? How would you recommend students to go about choosing their internships?

    I have done several Internships, under the Advocate on Record of Supreme Court of India, Kanga & Company, Jyoti Sagar Associates, Mumbai, Senior Advocates of Judge’s Court in Sylhet, Bangladesh. All, these internships have given me an opportunity to experience different aspects of the legal profession. Corporate culture, litigation gave me an opportunity to decide what kind of a career I’d like to pursue. Unfortunately, in my country, there isn’t much scope for students to carry out internships. The sole reason is that the corporate culture in Bangladesh is still developing and  the universities in the country don’t emphasise on Internships, due to which many students are unclear about their careers after graduation. Indian students already know what they’d like to pursue after completing their graduation but  it is important to focus on law firms that you’d like to work with in the future while choosing your internships. A good internship definitely reflects well on your C.V. while recruiters hire you.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing LL.M.? Was it a personal endeavour or a professional requirement? Why didn’t you opt for Indian Universities?

    I wanted to pursue LL.M from the U.K but due to personal anomalies I couldn’t do so. Later, pursuing LL.M was more of a professional requirement than a personal endeavour. I didn’t opt for Indian Universities as they don’t offer specializations in subjects; plus, since the duration is of 2 years, it didn’t seem very encouraging to me.

     

    You completed your LL.M from Southeast University, Dhaka, Bangladesh. What all did you consider before choosing your subject for Masters? What are the differences you found between Southeast University and NUJS?

    As I said, since it was more of a professional need to pursue LL.M, I opted for Southeast University. Since there was no specialization, it was a general LL.M, and hence I didn’t have the option to choose any subjects.

    There are numerous differences between NUJS and South East University. I cannot compare NUJS with any Private University. If I ever get an opportunity again, I’d like to pursue my LL.M in a foreign country.

     

    shezin-h3

    You were closely associated with the ICC T20 Women’s World Cup 2014 and the South Asian Games 2010. How was your experience organising these events? Have you been a sportsperson? What draws you to sports?

    I was the MC for the South Asian Games 2010. It was definitely a great experience. That was the first time I faced thousands of people. This experience has definitely added as a boost to my experience during the ICC T20 Women’s World Cup 2014. I worked as a Local Coordinator for the women’s teams along with being the MC for the player of the ceremony after each match. Dealing with ten teams was super challenging and hectic. The event was scheduled for more than a month. It was an eye opening experience as I came in contact with hundreds of officials and employees of the International Cricket Council, the Bangladesh Cricket Board, famous players and match officials. I feel extremely lucky to have been a part of such a stupendous event.

    I was more into sports during my school day and college life. I have played almost all kinds of sports and was a part of the football team and cricket team while at university and the basketball, hockey teams during school days. It’s rejuvenating and I enjoy playing sports.

     

    You worked as an investigating officer at the Gender Justice & Diversity Section, BRAC, Dhaka, Bangladesh. Tell us what your job profile was all about, what comes under the responsibility of an investigation officer?

    The job as an Investigation Officer in Gender Justice & Diversity at BRAC was interesting and challenging. Basically this job profile was focussed on working with sexually harassed men/women at work place. A grievance cell was created whereby those working with BRAC if they faced any sexual harassment at work place could launch complaint with SHARE Unit, (Sexual Harassment Elimination Unit). After receiving complaint from SHARE, two investigation officers are given the task of visiting the place of occurrence and carry out investigation. After returning back from investigation, report has to be prepared and handed over to the Team Manager. Later Team Manager along with the head of SHARE Unit would decide upon what action to be taken. The punishment could range from termination, temporary suspension and warning. An aggrieved person if not satisfied with the awarding sentence could approach to Ombudsman. The decision of the Ombudsman is final.

    So, as an investigation officer, I had to investigate the matter by visiting the place of occurrence, take statement of the victim, accused and witnesses. It was very challenging job because sometimes the accused would turn hostile, the witnesses would refuse to meet. Most importantly basing on my report following actions would be assigned. So since it was sensitive issue dealing cautiously was essential.

    BRAC’s GJ&D had formulated Sexual Harassment Elimination (SHE) Policy in 2004, following which BRAC was committed to follow the High Court Division’s Guideline against sexual harassment that was promulgated on May 14, 2009.

     

    Given the Law firms where you interned offer a lucrative pay package and a prestigious career, how did you decide to return back to Bangladesh and start practice? Have you always thought of litigating from your days of being a law student?

    It was simply my father’s decision that I come back to Bangladesh and start working here. Since 1994, I have been in India for education purpose, hence my father wanted me to return back just as I had completed my graduation in 2009. I didn’t think of taking up litigation while I was a law student. The circumstances lead me to opt for this path.

     

    You are currently working as an advocate at Judge’s Court, Sylhet, Bangladesh. How is the court atmosphere in Bangladesh? Can you share some of your experiences in the first few sessions of the court?

    The Judge’s Court scenario is pretty much different. Though initially I didn’t like the atmosphere but gradually over time I got used to. The first few sessions of the court was challenging as most of the time while appearing for any matter, I am facing a senior opposing counsel. I was nervous at the beginning but over time I have grown confident and hesitation don’t take over me.

    Also, immediately after graduating in 2009 I couldn’t start practice straight away. In the legal system of Bangladesh one has to pass the bar examination before practicing as an Advocate. Passing the bar exam is really challenging as one has to face more than 15,000 or more examinees from all over Bangladesh every passing year.

     

    Can you tell us about a few highlights of the legal system of Bangladesh? Do you find any major differences between India and Bangladesh?

    The legal System in Bangladesh follows the Common law. The Judiciary is independent. The Supreme Court of Bangladesh is the Apex Court with two divisions, The Appellate Division and the High Court Division. Appellate Division hear and determine appeals from judgments, decrees, orders or sentences of High Court Division. High Court Division has both Appellate and Original Jurisdiction. It hears appeals from orders, decrees and judgment of subordinate courts and tribunals.

    The laws and acts are all most similar except that amendments have made certain changes. The personal law is different than that in India. Also, unlike the Indian System, one has to qualify the bar examination in order to practice in the Judge’s Court in Bangladesh. For enrolment in High Court, minimum two years practice in lower court and if the candidate has LL.M that he /she can sit for enrolment examination of High Court.

     

    What are the primary requirements of a practicing lawyer in Dhaka? Is it possible for an India educated lawyer to start practice in Dhaka and vice-versa? Do you consider practicing law in India ever? How would it be for you to adjust your career in a city like Delhi or Kolkata?

    Primary requirement for a practicing lawyer is that he/she has to be enrolled after passing the Bar Council Examinations. It is not possible for an Indian Lawyer to practice in Bangladesh unless he/she is a citizen of this country and vice-versa. I had considered practicing in India but since I am not an Indian Citizen, hence I cannot practice. If I would have the opportunity I would comfortably adjust my career in Kolkata, as I’m accustomed to the life in Kolkata after staying there for 5 long years.

     

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    Is legal practice in Dhaka as lucrative as in Kolkata? What are the primary challenges in establishing an illustrious career there?

    If you consider the High Court practice, then I would say both Dhaka and Kolkata are on same footing. Even though primarily it’s very tough to build up this career in litigation but with time one can blend in.

    The primary challenge in litigation is being a woman. If the family is not supportive than pursuing litigation, maintaining family could be pretty challenging. Though now days the families are less conservative so this makes the chances a bit better to opt for litigation. And of course competition is there considering clients prefer Barrister-at-Law than other Advocates. This trend has been since there after independence and till date it continues. People have the notion in Bangladesh that if you become a Barrister you are much more qualified than ordinary advocates who are in practice for long years. The trend is changing though, after realising that not all Barristers are worth the penny.

     

    You have worked in India as an intern in various law firms and under various famous advocates, do you find any difference in the working cultures of India and Bangladesh? How different are both the countries in terms of work culture?

    The work culture is much more different in Bangladesh in comparison to India. The education I got from NUJS has given me an upper hand. In comparison to other graduates from certain private universities and public universities in Bangladesh, I think I had a great exposure in this profession. The experience that I have gained has pushed me ahead in my profession. As a result, I am pursuing litigation along with teaching and also being a political fellow for Democracy International, a USAID agency. Also, the corporate culture is not yet full-fledged in Bangladesh unlike India. It will take another few more years to form the corporate culture like that of India. Also the political instability has direct influence in our legal system, so that works to as a barrier for companies coming in and investing in Bangladesh.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who wants to excel in the legal profession?

    For the law students, please utilise your time wisely while studying and try selecting the good law firms for internships. The internships reflect a lot in what you are capable of pursuing as a lawyer while you will enter professional field. Most importantly, let your heart follow what you want to pursue, don’t follow anyone because making your own identity will always lead you ahead in life no matter what you chose. Good wishes to all the upcoming lawyers.

  • Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

    Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

    protik-banerjee7Protik Da talked to us earlier on studying law, career of a litigator at Calcutta High Court and building clientele. This time we requested him to delve more deeper into the nuances of the legal profession. Success, failure, challenges and how he took them on his stride.

    In this interview he shares his insights of:

    • Dealing with challenges and successes
    • Having a few landmark judgments to his credit
    • Difference between the regular and the ‘elite’ law students
    • Opportunities at the Calcutta High Court for an young lawyer

     

    It is 19 years of your illustrious practice at the Calcutta High Court. You must have encountered difficulties few and far between your successes. What were the most taxing challenges you ever faced? And how did you overcome them?

    The worst challenge I faced was in my early years. I had to appear to argue a Second Appeal before a Division Bench presided over by a very conservative Judge who had, before elevation, a roaring civil practice. The gentleman was so old school that he believed that no junior should argue a second appeal at the stage of Order 41 Rule 11, Code of Civil Procedure unless he had at least ten years’ practice; by that time of course, you were not a junior anymore. He also felt that juniors should lose in his Court at least thrice before they were entitled to an order. The first might have been justified considering the difficulties involved in arguing a second appeal at the Order 41 Rule 11 (popularly but wrongly called ‘admission’) stage, but the second was really tyrannical. I was constrained to argue the matter because the client was standing in the Court room and did not want me to take an adjournment on the ground of the absence of the learned Senior Advocate who had been briefed to lead me.

    The Hon’ble Division Bench first asked me whether I wanted an adjournment; naturally I said I would argue, though I was led by a Learned Senior Advocate. The Judge became very irritated and asked me whether as a Junior I thought I knew enough to argue on a substantial question of law. When I persisted politely, he visibly gnashed his teeth and asked me to begin. He did not look at me or the brief but kept staring out of the window. After gamely going on for an hour, I stopped. He asked me if I had anything more to say. I naturally said that I had completed. He dictated a judgment which did not reflect anything I had argued. It was a rather brief Order by which my second appeal was dismissed on the ground that no substantial question of law was involved. He was the Senior Judge. The Hon’ble Junior Judge, as is customary unless there is strong reason to dissent, indicated his agreement. I came out of the Court Room almost in tears. My client went to Supreme Court. He won there.

    Another time was when I confessed before a Court that my client really had no point on merit but only technical grounds to justify his refusal to allow his tenant to have a separate meter in his name. My client had issues with the tenant and wanted to evict him. The Court became livid since according to it, I was no one to judge whether or not my client had any point on merit, but that it was his duty as a Judge. He recorded my submissions and allowed the writ petition (where I was the private Respondent) and ordered that my client was to pay costs assessed at Rs.5 lakhs each to each of the Respondents and the writ petitioner.

    There were eight respondents apart from my client and one writ petitioner so in effect it was an order for payment of Rs.45 lakhs. This was in the year 1999. It was a big sum in those days. I came out of the Court room stunned, and sat down on a chair outside. I was still dazed when a learned Senior Advocate of our Court, Sri Bikash Bhattacharya, put a hand on my shoulder. I jumped up, to offer him the seat but he forced me to remain sitting. “It’s a blessing in disguise”, he said “now you will easily get a stay from the Division Bench. You can’t just appeal against costs so you will have to appeal against the entire order. Normally with your case you would have lost anyway. Yet now the amount of costs will make the Division Bench be sympathetic.” It worked out exactly in that way.

    My difficulties – then and now – can be summarized in two words. Bad habits. These have ruined my health. Working without sleeping, sometimes without eating and mostly eating the wrong sort of food at odd hours have made it impossible for me to attend Court as regularly I would have liked. Then again, because of my late hours and the consequential effect on the offices of privy, I do not always come to Court on time. These made many learned advocates feel chary about briefing me. Perhaps the worst thing was my substance abuse. I used to drink very heavily and there were times till 2001—2002 when I drank a litre of single malt every day and two litres on Friday evenings. I used to work on, but naturally people get very anxious if they come to brief a lawyer and find him reeking like a distillery. Together these things brought my practice down to nil thrice in these last nineteen years. The fourth time was deliberate, when I became the Standing Counsel for the State of West Bengal. I took a conscious decision to limit my private practice to drafting pleadings, petitions and affidavits in matters where the state government or its agencies were not parties. These three years the challenge was subsisting on the meagre amounts that the government paid, very irregularly, without bringing down my accustomed standard of living. My bank account took a huge blow from which it is yet to recover!

     

    You became a Govt. Counsel in 2011. What does it take to represent the Govt.? What were the main areas of your expertise you were banking on as a Govt. Counsel?

    I do not claim expertise in anything at all. I am a competent draftsman, and I can speak in English. I read a lot. These are what any lawyer would require to practise law. I had some experience in banking law and interlocutory matters (applications made while a suit is pending, seeking receivers, injunctions and various other interim reliefs and relating to the suit) and I had done some arbitration and winding up proceedings, and I had appeared in quite a number of writ petitions, but these were not what I banked upon. I relied upon my basic honesty and the willingness to learn from anyone.

    I do like the complex laws relating to land in West Bengal. I was briefed in matters of various types, but of these I liked to do land matters most. At one point of time I was briefed in almost all the important land matters of the day. I was also involved in a lot of police inaction or police harassment cases where in my own way I tried to ensure that justice was done and even the writ Petitioners accepted that the State was fair in its treatment.

    To represent the government you need to develop the ability to work for very long hours without getting paid, working on sketchy instructions given by pen-pushers to whom either nothing matters or who are so committed that they stay awake night after night trying to help counsel though they do not get paid anything extra for it. You need to have patience and good manners so that the officer who has come to brief you and who may be your father’s age, does not feel insulted by your behaviour. He calls you sir because your position demands it, but you should also show him the respect that a man of his age or designation is accustomed to. Many of my colleagues working for the government took pride in the fact that they treated Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Directorates like dirt. The way they behaved with lower division clerks – who in most cases know more about the law relating to their department than qualified lawyers – would make you puke. I tried, during my tenure, to treat them exactly as I treated any other client or client’s officer from my days of representing corporates. Perhaps it helped.

    When I left my government position I was humbled by the number of people who expressed their regrets – from my juniors in the government panel of lawyers to the high officers of State whom I had represented and even the staff of the Advocate General’s and Standing Counsels’ offices. This is what I carry with me – the good wishes and blessings of those with whom I have worked. In the end – apart from character and providing for your family – perhaps it is all that matters.

     

    You have a few landmark judgements to your credit. One which I can readily recall is about amenability of arbitration to the High Court. How does it feel to have a landmark judgment to your credit? Do you think achievements like this can change one’s recognition drastically?

    Landmark judgments do not do much for the client except immortalize his name. Most of the landmark judgments result in a loss for the petitioner. Look at Keshavnand Bharti, Maneka Gandhi or even Olga Tellis. In each of these cases important principles of law were laid down, extolling the Rule of Law, Natural Justice, Basic features and the right to livelihood. Yet after laying down these principles which are vital for any libertarian democracy – the petitioner lost the particular case. Maneka Gandhi’s grievance was held to be one which could be redressed by a post-decisional hearing, the eviction of the squatters was upheld in Olga Tellis and even in Keshavnand Bharti, in the ultimate analysis, I think the Petitioners lost. That is my view.

    The one you referred to is Unik Accurates—v—Sumedha Fiscal. It was the first time that a High Court decided that an arbitral tribunal is amenable to the jurisdiction of the High Court under Article 227 of the Constitution of India. Of course now it has been modified somewhat by the larger Bench of SBP—v—Patel Engineering, where the Supreme Court has laid down that so long as the arbitration proceeding is pending High Courts ought not to intervene due to the existence of an alternative remedy and the statutory scheme, but that does not take away the principle of law settled by the High Court, that under the Arbitration and Conciliation Act of 1996 an arbitral tribunal is a tribunal for the purposes of Article 227 of the Constitution of India, therefore the arbitral tribunal ought to be so also.

    So far oft cited judgments where I appeared are concerned I’d rather not talk about them. They are there online and in law-reports and I am sure if anyone is interested they can be found. I remember fondly only one of them, the case of Labonyamoyee Chanda where a widow of a country doctor was refused treatment and admission by a reputed government hospital on the ground of lack of ‘bed’ though she was in a moribund condition as certified by that hospital while a lady referred by an important politician was admitted immediately, just half an hour later without any bed having been vacated in the meanwhile. My client survived due to charity of people who contributed enough money to have her treated in a private establishment. What made my blood boil was that this lady’s husband, while alive, had given up a lucrative medical career in the city and had devoted his entire life as a doctor in a government hospital treating the poor and indigent but after his death without issues, his wife was treated like a pariah.

    I argued that ‘passing the patient’ was not a game that any hospital could play particularly when she was in a moribund condition and if beds were not available, she ought to have been accommodated on a trolley bed and treated immediately. We won, not merely compensation but also the price of the pace-maker that had to be installed. We were also awarded costs.

    I do not feel particularly different just because a matter which I argued later on became celebrated or is cited very often not just in Calcutta but elsewhere. I will not lie, they make me very happy – but let me make one thing very clear: celebrating reported judgments as landmarks by the lawyer who argued them is like resting on one’s laurels – and that is not the part of the body on which laurels were meant to be worn.

     

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    You have indiscriminately mentored a lot of students and provided invaluable guidance to many. What are the differences that you found between students of the ‘elite’ law schools and students from other law colleges and traditional universities?

    Those who come from ‘elite’ law schools are also divided into two parts: CLAT and non-CLAT. Those from other law colleges – such as mine – feel that they have a lot more to prove and when they do internships, by and large they are far more open to new ideas and think out of the box. They are taught very little in their colleges and so they know that there is a lot to learn. They keep on ruing that they do not get well paid jobs immediately after graduation, but they are eager to practise for a few years so that ultimately they are picked up by law firms and bodies corporate who want experienced junior litigators to look after procedural matters.

    The students of CLAT law schools, by and large, are very well up on the theory of law. I have had the honour of teaching successive fourth and final year students at the NUJS and have had students from almost every national law school intern with me over the years. Most of them are very good at researching principles of law and cases, even when doing their 3rd semester. This year I wanted to see how their first year students do and though it’s too early to comment, most of them have that brightness in the eye which I want to see in every student. The one thing that I do dislike in the CLAT law school students, though, is their unconscious assumption of superiority just because they have qualified in the CLAT. As I keep on saying an examination is only a test of what you could remember and write on that day. Law as a profession demands consistent excellence every day in the year and not just one day for four or five hours. A lawyer must study. Studying is what you can do equally well while doing a correspondence course so long as you are online. Yes it is true that CLAT law schools have the best libraries I have seen. I am fascinated by the NUJS library which has both reference and text books and journals and which also has a lot of the literature of law. The students are enriched.

    The non-CLAT elite law schools leave me perplexed. Some of them charge almost what a High Court judge makes a year, boast of certifications and collaborations from foreign universities and have their own entrance examinations. They are comparatively new. I know for a fact that their faculty is usually of sterling quality but to afford the fees either you have to be uber-rich or hock your patrimony! I have trained a few students from those law schools and despite the innate goodness of children – for that is how I think of them – I have either smelt the crass stink of easy and new money or the desperation that arranging for student loans entails. I keep asking them, why do you choose to study in those places where neither top-tier jobs nor excellence in practice is certain? They really have no answer.

    I cannot conclude my answer without taking two names: Arun Krishna Dhan, whom I taught in 2006, from NUJS and who knows more Constitution of India and precedents than I did then or would ever know; Koushik Layek, also from the same batch who was the most complete (though a bit of rogue) lawyer I have ever seen. Both showed rare courage in first taking very highly paid jobs in one of the top-tier law firms in Delhi, achieving great heights of both salary and position and then remembering what I had told them about private practice, paying off their student loans, and chucking the jobs to start a private practice. Both are doing well, by God’s Grace.

    Please do not think I am partial to NUJS. I started out hating all National Law Schools, coming as I do from a law college which has a storied past but is nowhere now compared to these law schools. Yet after I went to teach at NUJS as a guest lecturer, I saw these kids first hand, participated in their joys, sorrows and aspirations…and I found something terribly strange: law students the world over are the same; unsure of the step they have taken, the so called glorious uncertainty which can change so quickly into utter failure and mediocrity. Yet they persevere. This experience made me look at National and in fact all law schools in the present light. They are what you must go through to become a lawyer and you cannot be too harsh, for life is short and as Joan Baez sang, nothing is given to man.

     

    What do you look for in your interns when they apply for a position to work with you? If there is someone who wants your guidance, what should she do?

    Very briefly, I do not like interns who think that they will be able to contribute to my practice or think that they know this field or that very well or want to use this opportunity to hone their skills. I like honest, brief curricula vitae (which I rarely read) and an impression that he or she wants to learn. I want my interns to work very hard when I work hard or ask them to, to play even harder when we are not working, to enjoy internship and think of chambers as a second home. It helps if they mail me or send a private message on Facebook telling me about themselves because ultimately it is a student and a teacher relationship and unless we can respect each other, there would be no process of learning as from a Guru.

    I may not answer telephones but I answer all electronic mails and Facebook and text messages. Sometimes, if the work load is brutal, it might take a few days, but I answer everyone personally. If someone has a query, and it is something I can help them out with I answer questions online personally; they do not have to intern with me for that. Yet with each intern I demand two commitments which persist even after the internship is formally over: they must keep in touch with me so long as I am alive and keep me posted about their work and they ought never to disclose what happens in chambers outside, even to their parents or best friends. This is because critical, confidential and often matters of state importance are discussed in my chambers and except for matrimonial cases I ask my interns to sit in on the conferences. If these leaked out then my clients – especially in high stake matters – would be compromised. Thankfully each of my interns – even those who did not part with me on pleasant terms – has kept this covenant.

     

    There have been quite a few booms and busts in the legal industry. What do you think about the future of legal education in India? How do you say a student can manage to stay ahead of the ‘rat race’?

    I do not accept that there is a legal industry in India. There is only a profession. A profession is a perennial stream. There is neither a boom nor a bust. There are only professionals who painstakingly and conscientiously do their best for their clients while jealously and vigilantly guarding the rule of law. Those who call themselves lawyers but do not do this, or are only interested in the money have no business being in this river. For them I have only contempt and disgust. These profiteers and speculators in law are the detritus and decay that every institution generates. Let them be relegated to the garbage dump of experience.

    Naturally, in the light of what I feel, the question of staying ahead in a rat-race does not arise. A student must study and acquire and assimilate knowledge. He or she must do a lot of internships to learn the practical side of law. Depending upon proclivities, the student may choose to do more corporate internships or more litigation based internships. The work that a student does imprints itself on the person who checks that work. If the work is good and the student is not obnoxious, the student will get good certificates, good recommendations and most importantly, help which is very important to a young graduate starting out on his career.

     

    How is the work atmosphere at the High Court presently? Do you think it has become more difficult for a fresher to be successful? What would you advise a fresh graduate as he enters the world of litigation today?

    The opportunities today in the High Court at Calcutta are tremendous and far more than before. Judges accept with good grace juniors submitting before them even on high stake matters. Youth has been given encouragement by our Full Court this year by designating several lawyers with less than 20 years practice as Senior Advocates. All that a fresher needs to know is procedure and there are many older lawyers who are helpful and will guide the junior. For this they neither charge fees nor demand a brief. I guess it is because we all know that freshers are the future of our profession and if we cannot train youngsters to be better than us then the profession as a whole would lose its lustre.

    I would advise him to read and follow knowledge like a sinking star, and perhaps to catch up with it; to learn the procedure and watch as many cases as possible to learn court craft. It would be very helpful if he devilled with a senior in chambers for a year because he would have the benefit of a guidance which I lacked. He should never put on airs, before a Judge or otherwise, but state his case simply and with conviction. If he decides to practice as an advocate on record, it is imperative to work with a solicitor/advocate on record whether a sole practitioner or a law firm, for at least an year or two and follow the solicitor’s clerk to the Department and learn the procedures of filing and taking steps first-hand. I would ask him to analyze all drafts he can get his hands upon to learn the different styles and formats for different proceedings. I would ask him, most importantly, to have patience and not lose faith. Things will work out in the end.

     

    You must have considered trying out different legal avenues? What are your thoughts about becoming a judge or an arbitrator?

    I have been part of an arbitral tribunal on many occasions. Sometimes I have been a sole arbitrator. Arbitration is a useful way of resolving disputes though being a lawyer in an arbitration is more lucrative than being an arbitrator. I will not recommend becoming an arbitrator by profession. It is something that a lawyer does as part of his profession but it cannot be the only profession of a practising lawyer. Retired judges make very good arbitrators since they are used to judging between man and man.

    A judge is not something one chooses to become in this country. One is asked if one is considered to be worthy. I have no thoughts of it at present except that if asked it would be an honour.

     

    What would be your advice to all the law students and lawyers regarding success?

    Success is relative. Everyone I know measures success in different terms. Most find success in money, some in fame and a few more in the number of people whose lives they have touched. I can only share with you my life’s lesson: read as much as you can, work hard and do your best even if it be at the cost of your health – leave the rest to God.

    In te Domine speravi non confundar in aeternum.

     

    You can always reach out to Protik Da on Facebook

  • Manan Bhatt, Advocate, on studying in Westminster University, his internship experience, and litigation

    Manan Bhatt, Advocate, on studying in Westminster University, his internship experience, and litigation

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    Manan Bhatt graduated from Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda in 2010. Thereafter he went for an LL.M. in International Commercial Law to University of Westminster. He practises as a litigator and is registered as an Advocate. He also had the opportunity to judge the 10th Willem C Vis Arbitration Moot.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Days at MSU and differences between MSU and Westminster
    • Comparison between an Indian LL.M. and an LL.M from the UK
    • LL.M. experience, faculty, facilities and overall academics from Westminster University.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Hello, you are reading an interview of a person who is experiencing the field of law since 2005 and actively learning the Law since 2010. I did my undergraduate in Law (B.A, LL.B) from Faculty of Law, Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda. In 2010 I graduated and my name has been entered in the roll of advocate of Bar Council of Gujarat. I started my practice as an Associate with the Chamber of Hriday Buch which has its presence in High Court of Gujarat. After practicing before High Court of Gujarat for more than a year and a half, I went to UK to pursue LL.M in International Commercial Law from University of Westminster. Currently, I am honing my Legal acumen under the guidance of Mr. Asim Pandya.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    One or the other reasons did not allow me to stay in the same school for more than three years. I got good exposure by having education from various different schools situated in different areas of Gujarat. My primary education was from Government Primary School, Kheda. Then my father relocated in Gandhinagar and I got secondary Education from Mount Carmel High School, Gandhinagar. I successfully finished my XII – Commerce from Sheth C. N. Vidhyalaya, Ahmedabad. In this manner, I consider myself very fortunate that I have lived, experienced and seen rustic life as well as City life in a very early age.

    I am the ‘first-generation’ lawyer. My entire family is from the education field. So, it was a difficult task to choose a career path. Though, my mom always inspires me to be a lawyer as she believes I am good at arguing (being a victim of my argumentative skill!). Jokes apart, I always believe to be in a field where I can get opportunity to communicate with people and observe every sphere of the Society.

    In fact, I scored very well in XII – Commerce even I got full marks in Business Math in my Board Examination. So, many of my relatives and well wishers impressed upon me that I should become CA. unfortunately, I did not fall prey to their choice of career and got myself admitted in St. Xavier College, Ahmedabad for F.Y. B.A. (Psychology). In the same year Maharaja SayajiRao University announced five year integrated Law course and I opted in. In a sense, I can’t say that law has been my career choice from the beginning at the best I can say that I have inclination towards law from my early years of the school.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

    From the very first year of our under graduation we required to attend court proceedings as a part of our academic calendar. I did various internships at various different organisations that include Chambers, NGOs, MNCs, Solicitor firms, etc. It helps me to gather first hand information of the legal field. Being a first-generation Lawyer internship is the only source to get to know about the profession. I have read a few autobiographies of Law Legends, but I could have not known the profession and its true color had I not done internships.

    When I was doing my internship with Mr. Majumdar a lawyer and Public Prosecutor in Ahmedabad district Court, I was given an assignment to draft an Appeal for Consumer Matter. I suppose it was a Pro bono brief. One fine day that client came to get the copy of his Appeal. He thanked Mr. Majumdar for his help. Mr. Majumdar called me in his chamber and told the client that he has drafted your Appeal. In a literal sense the client touched my leg and thanked me. This was happened when I was in my second year, I was so embarrassed and at the same time happy to see the happiness engraved in the eyes of that client. From this incident I learnt a lesson in life that the lawyer’s duty is not just give his client a best possible professional advice but, it is also the duty of every lawyer to generate sense of confidence in his client so that he can feel that he is in the safe world.

     

    How did you go about securing internships under people like Mahesh Jethmalani?

    Faculty of Law, M. S. University gave a large number of legal doyens to the profession. In the year 2005, as many as nine Justices were alumnus of Faculty of Law, M. S. University. It also gave many Chief Justices to various High Courts. Even many of its alumni have been elevated to Supreme Court of India. So, the brand name ‘MSU’ plays very important role to secure Internship in good organisations/chambers/firms.

     

    What stark differences did you find between MSU and Westminster University?

    We are the first batch of Baroda School of Legal Studies. Being a first batch of Five Year Course has its own merits and demerits. I believe infrastructure was the biggest hurdle in MSU. Though, we had renowned faculty member. There were many practicing lawyers who came as a visiting faculty and which helped us immensely.

    The stark different between MSU and UoW is infrastructure and library. In UoW, we have library which runs in five floors. Not only books but we also have a facility to borrow laptops from our library. We can access full version of many web portals such as WestLaw, LexisNexis, HeinOnline, Jstor, etc. We do not need to visit the campus just to renew the books which we have borrowed three weeks back. This helped me a lot while I was making my dissertation. In MSU you are constantly in a pressure to find out the sources for your research. Expensive books are not available and if available then only for the reference purpose. This all have very bad impact in your research quality.

     

    What was your motivation behind doing an LL.M. abroad?

    This is the question which I have answered zillion times. Invariably, every person asks this question why not an LLM in India. The answer is simple. I was convinced that I am litigation material and hence, I want to expand my knowledge base that too in a short span as I want to rejoin the profession again. In India at that time LLM courses were of two years. And in UK it does not consume more than 9 months. This is the first reason.

    I am not a ‘DEGREE CENTRIC’ person. I want to expand my knowledge more particularly; I like courses which require intensive research and a more independent approach to working towards DEGREE without the constraints of attending timetabled lectures. In India, we are obsessed with attendance and ‘text book–based–examinations’. This is what I hate the most and hence I decided to pursue LL.M from UK.

     

    How did you choose the universities that you applied to?

    Actually, I had three countries in my mind for pursuing my LL.M i.e., UK, USA and Singapore. Then I contacted many LLM students through LinkedIn that helped me massively to zero down on UK.

    After I decided that I will be going UK, the task became easy and I surf, read, research and talk with many people. Here, I would like to give an unsolicited advice don’t hire any agent for a help to make your research and application. DO NOT believe what they say; use your own mind and do your own research. Contact Admission Office of any of the universities of your choice and ask every single query your mind has cultivated.

    As I said earlier I want to join some Research University. I have applied in SOAS, Kings College, Queen Mary, Durham, Leeds, and Leicester. I received offer letter from Kings College, Queen Mary and Leicester University.

     

    How did LL.M. at University of Westminster happen?

    It all happened very hurriedly. I decided to go for higher education in May 2011 when we have Summer Vacation in the High Court of Gujarat. Though, I have already made research on ‘LLM -IN –UK’. Hence, I knew that I was late in applying. I have applied University of Westminster through UKPASS. I was in touch with the Admission office of UoW. They guided me with my application process.

     

    How is the recruitment for overseas students?

    I personally, do not believe that ‘Foreign – LL.M’ improve my chances of employability. At the same time, recruiters do call you for an interview by acknowledging your foreign degree mentioned in your CV. After all it’s all about Confidence and rapport you share with your interviewer which might help improving your chance to employability. Miss Swethaa Ballakrishnen has written a paper viz. “Homeward Bound: What Does A Global Legal Education Offer The Indian Returnees?” on chances of employability of an LL.M holder. I recommend all the aspirants to read this paper. It will provide crucial insights regarding LL.M and Employability.

     

    How was your experience in Westminster?

    One of the main reasons I chose UoW is its faculty members. John Flood, Reza Banekar, Richard Earle, Joseph Tanega, Adam Samuel, Simon Newman to name a few, are our faculty members. They are reservoir of knowledge, very active and attentive, ready to help and they are the Professor in its true sense and spirit. They respect knowledge and talent. They made me strive for knowledge.

    I could not find a single reason for which I can say that paucity of resources in UoW hampered the quality of my research/overall outcome of my result. We have good library. The central library system in UK allows me to visit any library situated in UK. In fact, I used to visit LSE’s library for research. They have online database. Prompt reply from faculty members is the rule. So, there is nothing for which you can blame UoW for your bad quality of research. They help you in settling up interviews if your research demands interviews of various stake holders of the society. These all facts make you to concentrate on research only. The administrative side has been looked into by UoW. This helped me a lot.

     

    manan-bhatt3

    What do you suggest one should necessarily do while at the Westminster University?

    The Cinema in Regent Street London is the part of UoW.  You are not an alumnus of UoW if you have not experienced the Cinema. “Walking Tour of the Neighbourhood” guided by Adam Samuel should not be missed out. One should join Adam Samuel to know food joints around the neighbourhood and history of the neighbourhood.

     

    What did you specialise in?

    I did my LLM in International Commercial Law. Foundation in International Commercial Law is a mandatory module for the Student of LL.M-ICL. International Commercial Arbitration, Comparative Commercial Arbitration: Law and Practice, Research Theory and Practice, International Commercial Litigation And Corporate Social Responsibility Issues in Business and Law are the other modules which I had opted for and successfully cleared.

    My first love is Litigation rather, Dispute Resolution. Arbitration and litigation is therefore, natural preference. I took Research Theory and Practice because I thought and which also became reality, that it will help me to make my research more effective. The selection of these modules paid well in terms of marks I secured 65 marks in the dissertation. I wrote my Dissertation on “Interim Measures of Protection in International Commercial Arbitration and its Practice in India.” Corporate Social Responsibility module had been chosen just because I find the name of the module somewhat fascinating.

     

    How was the academic schedule?

    Our Course is based on 180 credits. 60 credits for Dissertation and rest of 120 credits are divided in to twenty credits per subject that comes to six subjects in an academic year. I studied five subjects in the first semester of my post graduation. I must admit that the first semester was more hectic than the second one as in the second semester I have only one subject and Dissertation. But, in the last it helped me because in second semester. I got ample time to set my focus on Dissertation. So, the academic work depends on how you choose your modules.

     

    How’s the Indian fraternity over there? Are there many Indian students?

    There are many Indian students and if we count south Asian students then I believe they are more than English students! My course had three Indian Students including me. So, around the university there were many Indian students but in my course we have not that luxury to have 75% Indian Students unlike Queen Mary or Kings’ College.

     

    What about accommodation?

    I have not stayed in a hostel or dorm. I was staying in Private accommodation. Private Accommodation is economical.

     

    Where do you see yourself in five years’ time?

    Five years down the line I would be more mature in terms of Law as well as life.

     

    How has your life been after the LL.M. from UoW?

    After LL.M I got the occasion to represent a client in International Arbitration. It was an ICC Arbitration held in Geneva. I was invited to judge/arbitrate Tenth Willem C. Vis (East) International Arbitration Moot held in Hong Kong on 11th – 17th March, 2013. I was invited to judge 3rd ILNU International Moot Court Competition 2014. At present I am working on various domestic Arbitration brief.

     

    What would be your advice to law student interested in going for higher studies?

    Do your research by yourself, Cross check what you read online. Get your priority straight. Define your purpose for higher studies. If the only purpose is to open up more avenues then think twice. If you want to do pure legal work in other Jurisdiction. Better you give Bar Examination i.e. In UK QLTT, LPC or GDL; USA New York Bar Examination etc. It is economical and it will increase your chance of employability.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for law students?

    Read. Re-read. Analyse. Think. Write. Listen. Pay Attention. Observe. Speak.

  • Protik Prokash Banerjee, Advocate, High Court, Calcutta, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    Protik Prokash Banerjee, Advocate, High Court, Calcutta, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    protik-banerjee3Protik Prokash Banerjee had graduated from Calcutta University in 1994. Thereafter he joined the Calcutta High Court. With two decades of experience as Advocate, Protik Da, as he is fondly addressed by peers and juniors, has several landmark judgments to his name.

    In this interview we spoke to him about:

    • His career as a young lawyer at the Calcutta High Court
    • Learning from his father
    • Studying in Calcutta University

     

    We had far too many questions to ask him, we have published the rest of the interview here: Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

     

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My father and mother were both lawyers.  Normally this would have been an incentive to follow in their footsteps but in my case they did not want me to be a lawyer at all.  My father wanted me to fulfil the dreams he had abandoned in order to provide for his family – father, mother, brothers and sisters.  He wanted me to be a doctor.  Like Walter Mitty, I wanted to be a Nobel Prize winning author, the Prime Minister of India, an Indian Kal El, the man who won the Nobel Peace Prize by fostering disarmament, a scientist who found the cure for cancer, AIDS and the million ills a flesh is heir to – I had also wanted to be a pilot, an engine driver, an athlete (though my immensely uncouth obese body precluded anything that physical almost at the outset) and on certain occasions both Captain Ahab and the Whale simultaneously.

    From the time that I found myself, and that was a very long time ago, I had wanted to be a professor of English Literature.  I wanted to teach English, its nuances, the stories of the world and its civilization, the fascinating myths that make up humanity and somewhere along the line I had wanted to write.  I wanted to read everything that had ever been written, etched, sculpted, typed or printed.  All of that needed money.

    My father, a Senior Advocate of the Hon’ble High Court at Calcutta, told me in Class X that I could do all of that, of course, but while he would leave me something, it would never be enough to fuel a lifestyle that could afford all of those things unless I did something sufficiently remunerative. He pointed out that a professor did not really make much money – we are talking about 1986, when it was still a Congress Majority, Rajiv Gandhi led government – and what I wanted to do needed a lot more than a salary.

    He had always wanted to be a doctor, but for financial constraints had studied law instead, and law was a good living but he did not want me join law; he said that this profession was a graveyard of many talents, and that there were few other places where there were so many educated beasts.  He wanted me to be a doctor or an IAS officer because in those days the perquisites of the latter allowed a pleasant lifestyle.

    I took a deep look at myself and found that there were only three things that I could actually do – read, write and speak in English.  All of these, including the debates I used to revel in, told me that I might make a go of a career in law.  So I decided, way back in 1986 when I was still in Class X, that I would study law and become a lawyer and practise in the High Court.

    I never told my parents this, because my father had his heart set on a medical career.  I went on to qualify in the West Bengal Joint Entrance and was just about eligible to make it to some small Medical College in the boondocks (in those days all were government colleges here) but ultimately did not submit the form at the time of counselling.  My parents ranted and raved, but I persuaded them that law was what I wanted to do and I would not have been happy as a doctor.

     

    How did your father’s career influence yours?

    My father practised essentially in the civil and constitutional writ jurisdictions in the High Court at Calcutta.  He was a Senior Advocate.  He met my mother in Court where she practised in the civil side and after six years of courtship they got married and she left the profession and became a homemaker.

    There are so many things that I remember about my father, as a man, as a father, as a professional (though I did not have the opportunity to work with him except in two cases), that it is difficult to choose one memory over the other.  My father’s watchword was “Maaliker Daya” (The Grace of God) and this was his favourite greeting and his answer to anyone who asked after him.

    As a father, I always thought he was the best that a boy could have.  He was a busy advocate, but in my childhood, I never found that to be an obstacle to doing things with him.  He would always keep Friday evenings free for us; that would be an evening when he would take us for a show, whether a play, a show, a music recital or motion picture, and dinner.

    When we came back, he would sit up with me and tell me stories from the books he had read.  He read quite a lot even outside law.  In fact, my long term love affair with books started because I wanted to read the originals of those fascinating stories he would tell me.  The originals were always pale copies compared to the rich tapestry that my father, a story-teller of almost Bardic imagination, would weave for me.  He would adapt the toughest of books, the most adult of themes, to a one person audience: his son.  Saturdays he would work through, but Sunday afternoons he would play cards with his friends.  He regaled us with stories about court-room battles at the breakfast table and dinner and I picked up words like ‘interim order’, ‘status quo’ and ‘caveat’ and when we fought I would say ‘You have no jurisdiction to say this’ or that “I have a right to be heard”.

    He never worked beyond 1 AM, and would, almost religiously, read fiction and philosophy, every night until 3 AM, till 2004.  Nevertheless he would be awake every morning by 5 AM, go to the market and still be in Court by 10:15 AM.  He had three passions apart from his family: books, travelling and going to the market every morning.  Later on, when he had stopped going to Court, he still kept on going to the market, but once a week instead of every day.

    For a man who idolized his father, and who in the ultimate analysis (as I understand now) chose law because he wanted to be like his father and not just for fueling a lifestyle (yes I know that I contradict myself, but I am human and what seemed to be the motivation when I was sixteen or seventeen years old, is not what I found was the real inspiration behind what I became) what happened between my eighteenth year and my thirty second?  I do not know.  For some reason, that is unclear to me even today, though my love for him did not diminish one bit, the distance between our minds grew.

    For these fourteen years, though we shared the same roof and table and went out together and shared space, it seemed to me that he did not love me.  After becoming a lawyer, he threw me out of his chambers within two months, I am sure for just cause, and refused to work with me on any brief; he refused to recommend me to anyone and in fact asked learned advocates on record who wanted to brief the two of us together to take back one of the briefs.

    His most tender comment to me, in those days, when I was hurting after having lost a case or having been lambasted in Court, and knowing that there would be no sympathy still I would grudgingly ask him where I was wrong, was not an analysis of the case and what I should have done, but a seemingly unfeeling “It’s your profession and your case.  You find out what went wrong”. He would of course blandly say what he said to everyone else “When I came to the profession, I had a skin.  Now I have a hide.  Develop a hide.”

    I thought in those days that this was rejection.  Now I know it was not.  He wanted me to make it on my own.  For a long time I thought I had.  Then I re-discovered that every breath I took, I owed to him, and not just my flesh and blood.  I discovered that the books I had read I had first found in his Library.  I discovered that the principles of law I researched and that I argued, I had first heard and retained in my sub-conscious at the dinner table; I did not really have an identity.  To most people I was still “Mukul Da’r chhele” (Mukul da’s son).  I used to resent it then.  I am proud of it now.

    I never heard a word of praise from him till 2001.  In 1998, when I had been practicing for only three years he stopped attending Court regularly, saying that he had worked enough and now it was my turn;  but from 2002 he hardly attended Court and after 2004 when he had his first heart attack, he never visited the High Court again.

    I resolved my issues with him on May 26, 2001.  I remember the date.  That too, was his gift to me.  It was he who initiated the process that brought his prodigal son back to him.  The first word of praise I heard from him was the greatest.  In September 2009, the West Bengal State Unit of the Indian Law Institute was kind enough to award me the Advocate General’s Trophy for Outstanding Emerging Lawyer.  My father had been too ill to attend so I came back with the trophy and showed it to him, ready for some disparaging remark.  The frail old man, my father, rose unsurely from his bed and embraced me.  He said “You have made our family proud.”  There were tears in his eyes.  This was the best, the highest and the most treasured compliment.

    His words of advice were “Read your brief, do not mislead the Court, do your best and the rest is upto the Court.”  I have tried my best to live by these three principles and though, unlike him, I do not refuse a case because the client is not morally in the right, I have always tried, as I once said to an opposing counsel who was elevated later on, and who accused me of only defending bad men and their acts, “My client may be a bad man, but even a bad man is entitled to equal protection of the laws.”

    Lawyers like him are rare.  A gentleman with the same humane treatment for everyone, and an unshakeable sense of what was right, with an integrity that was incapable of being dented and who never supported what he thought was unjust, in life or in law.  I know I can never be like him nor acquire one tenth of his professional stature or status.

    It was only years later that I understood that he had done all this so that I could develop on my own and not have to worry about being in his shadow.  I know now, that I can never be out of his shadow and frankly, I do not want to be.  I’d rather have him alive, casting those long shadows, than be without him.

     

    You graduated from Calcutta University in ’94. What was the legal profession like back then?

    The High Court at Calcutta was a wholly different place in 1994.  No junior advocate, whether he started out in the Appellate Side or Original Side, would dare to embark on his professional journey without having attended Senior’s Chambers as a pupil for at least two to three years.  Most stayed on for at least five years and did not open their mouths to argue cases until the end of that time, contenting themselves with seeking adjournments and pass-overs of matters for their Senior.

    They spent their time in the Chambers reading law from the law-reports and the text books and bare Acts, working out the cases in which their Senior had been briefed (including preparing a List of Dates, jotting down the page numbers where the material facts were pleaded and the material documents were annexed, and attempting to summarize the points of law involved and the case-laws on the point) for the first five years; if they were devilling with a learned Advocate on Record they usually accompanied the Clerk to the Department to get to know the procedure first hand.  Otherwise, they would attend Court with their Seniors and stand to one side and follow the proceedings or assist him if he so chose.  The present trend where young law graduates enroll themselves, crack the AIBE, put on their bands, morning coat and gown (most do not use wing collars like we do) and accept arguing briefs or cases from the first day, or expect to get cases from the first day and to earn from day one, was unthinkable. For me it still is.

    None of our law-schools or colleges teaches the practice of law.  They only teach the theory and in some cases the law itself.  Litigation cannot be taught in class room.  It is a profession and thus must be learnt by following the practitioners in real life.  One month long internships are not sufficient though they are a start.

    Of course as usual I did not practise what I now profess.  Since I was thrown out of my father’s chambers within 2 months of enrollment (as I wrote in the answer to an earlier question) I had to shift for myself.  I took on cases, shocked seniors with my precociousness and the arrogance of ignorance, made mistakes, got bawled out by Judges and other advocates alike, but corrected them myself after reading the law.

    In 1994 there was another thing that was different from today.  By and large the Original Side of the High Court comprised people who practised exclusively in the Original Side and those who practised in the Appellate Side tended to do so exclusively.  Of course there were glorious exceptions, but from what I saw it was very difficult for a junior lawyer to get briefed in an Original Side matter as junior counsel unless he practised exclusively as counsel in the Original Side or a junior lawyer to get briefed in the Appellate Side as junior counsel unless it was his case and he had signed the vakalatnama.

    I remember only the warm welcome that I received when I, having no background in the Original Side, started appearing in suits and interlocutory matters briefed by a young advocate on record who had just become a member of the Incorporated Law Society.  I would like to flatter myself that I was part of the change that happened.  Now the distinction between the sides and the practitioners has blurred so much that we are all advocates first.  This is a welcome change.

    Another thing that has changed is the plight of first generation lawyers.  As you may understand, law reports, journals and law books are very important for a lawyer to train himself.  Those who have lawyers in their families tend to have it easy because their forbears or relatives already have a rich library.  In 1994, those who did not come from such a family had no access to such books, often rare and very old (such as Indian Appeals of the late 19th century) and there only hope was to find chambers which allowed juniors access to the library even for their personal work.

    These were not rare, but getting into them was difficult.  Now, with the internet and legal software and most particularly Indiankanoon (no they did not pay me to endorse them!) it is no longer a problem.  So long as a young man is prepared to work hard and go through the documents and the digital records, he can access almost any judgment, any case and any principle of law that has been uploaded and most have been, in one archive or another.

    I do not have friends.  I used to have them when I left school but I was the only boy from my batch in Calcutta Boys’ School who had chosen law in 1988.  As I wrote in the answer to an earlier question, I had made it very clear from 1986 that I would study law to become a lawyer, and so my friends were not surprised.  They were surprised though that I adhered to my decision even after cracking the West Bengal Joint Entrance Examinations in the medical stream, however lowly my rank was.

    Very frankly, in the preliminary years of law college I thought that the Code of Civil Procedure which I kept on reading was the most boring thing on the world and the Constitution of India was a very presumptuous document ‘copied-pasted’ from foreign sources by overbearing lawyers with a colonial hangover and chips on their shoulders to try and show-off before the world “See how civilized, liberal, secular and enlightened we are.”  With time my ideas have undergone a change.  I now understand that they were trying their best to guide a largely disempowered multitude from the centuries of forced darkness into light.  I now feel that the Code of Civil Procedure is the most fascinating labyrinth which can exercise our minds.  Apart from the Original Side Rules, that is to say!

    My initial ambitions?  I wanted to be the best arguing lawyer in the country.  To help bring justice to those who could not afford it.  I understood that drafting was important only after an year!

     

    How was your experience as a student of Calcutta University in the midst of an enlightened community of people?

    The atmosphere in the University College of Law (Hazra Campus) was politically charged but hardly violent.  This is because we had only one party – the Students Federation of India, which ran the Union and for most of my college life, got candidates it supported, elected unopposed.  All our festivals and programmes were given a definite Leftist political slant and while India was facing a balance of payment crisis and was debating entering the open market, we were still discussing the merits of the education system in Cuba over that of USA.  We were discussing the imperialistic aggression of the Allied Forces against Iraq but hardly bothered about the fact that because of V.P. Singh and his ill-judged attempt to create a mark on history, people were burning themselves over reservation for “Other Backward Classes”.  I consider the politics of those days to be puerile, immature and ultimately pointless.

    By and large students participated in politics because they had to and because it allowed them to taste the gravy train of attendance percentage without attending classes, get cheap recognition when they had done nothing to deserve it, because they were friendless and in some cases because they wanted a career in politics and this was the stepping stone.  I was no exception. I mouthed the platitudes, tried to avoid going out in ‘processions’, but used the union connection to get my percentage of attendance without actually attending all the classes.  Those things have ended, now.

    Now, I am told that the administration has become very strict and unless you actually attend classes, you are not shown to have been present. I will not call the community of people at College enlightened.  Some of them were, as they are everywhere, but most were ordinary people like you and I.  It was nothing like your national law schools with the high drama and passion play and moots and what not.  We just served time till we got our degrees.  We learnt very little at College except about University life.  I used the time for binges, orgies and having fun.  Studies were for one month before the examination.  That was sufficient. Of course, I kept on reading a lot throughout college life, not necessarily law.

     

    What were your plans after graduation?

    I always wanted to practise law. My plans were to join my father’s chambers and start practising in High Court.  Both my plans came true.  However the first ended in two months as I have answered you before.  The second is still continuing.  I never thought of doing anything else.

    In 1994 a fresh law graduate could practise law in the courts or the fast burgeoning tribunals.  He could gather a few years’ experience and sit for his judicial service examinations and become a judge in the subordinate judiciary. He could also sit immediately for the Civil Services examinations where he would get exemption in the law papers. He could become a law-officer in a government concern, but in those days that needed a few years of experience.  He could also take a job in the legal department of business-houses and corporates, but normally these were based on recommendation and contacts and not on merit.

    Of course he could take a job in a solicitor firm (they were not called law firm in those days and most lawyers looked down upon them, yes, even the top tier law firms of today were just ‘solicitors’ to most advocates) but the pay was not very high in those days.  By and large people studied law to become lawyers and practise law and not sit behind desks and get a salary while they specialized in doing research for partners or clients without ever having to argue in court.

    You did not do a ‘fee quote’ or get mandates from your client; your client engaged or retained you and executed a vakalatnama in your favour or wrote a letter retaining your services and paying you an initial retainer or conference fees.

    You yourself took responsibility for what you did and did not hide behind paragraphs of disclaimers and the anonymity of a team.  You learnt procedure and did what lawyers do instead of knowing the theory and hunting around desperately for someone to tell you how to write a petition for adjournment in the lower court.

     

    Back in ’95 just out of college, how did you manage to get a mentor for yourself?

    As I said, I started out with my father.  That ended two months into my profession.  So that is how I found my mentor and lost him. Thereafter my only mentors were my books and the learned Seniors I was briefed with.  You might say that I was more of an Eklavya than an Arjun.

    Seriously, I think that the only things that distinguish a senior from a junior are knowledge and experience, the latter including court-craft.  Experience you cannot gain without actually putting in those long years of work and doing a lot of cases.  Yet knowledge is something that both seniors and juniors get from the same books.  So long as you have access to books I think you can get by, given the calibre and high quality of law students today.

    In retrospect, I could have done much better if I had a mentor.  If I had devilled under someone like Mr. Anindya Kumar Mitra or Mr. Saktinath Mukherjee, learned Senior Advocates, today I could have been a complete lawyer.  I take those names only as examples, iconic though these learned Seniors are.  In my formative years, I worked a lot with Mr. Bimal Kumar Chatterjee (presently the learned Advocate General of West Bengal), Mr. Pratap Chatterjee, and then Mr. Anindya Kumar Mitra, learned Senior Advocates and Barristers-at-Law.

    After a few years experience I also worked with Mr. Shyama Prasanna Roy Chowdhury and Mr. Ashok Banerjee, learned Senior Advocates and after ten years of practice, with Mr. Kalyan Bandyopadhyay, learned Senior Advocate.  I guess if I had been fortunate enough to have any of them as mentors today I would have a far better grounding in law, court-craft, etiquette and the profession.

    You need a mentor to guide you in the profession, to protect you from the consequences of your mistakes, both in your cases and in the profession.  If you are a first generation lawyer you need a mentor to show you the way in which a case is to be approached, the way in which strategies are formulated, and the manner in which a point of law is formulated and even for the law-resources such as rare law reports, text books and journals.

    Sometimes it is as basic as knowing the format for a draft.  A mentor, a Senior as we call them, in the profession is like a Guru of ancient times.  Junior lawyers must learn how to sit at his feet (figuratively if not literally) and learn from him, what he does and how he does it.  There should be absolute humility, obedience and surrender.  Reminds me of an album by some of my favourite artistes – “Love, Devotion, Surrender”.  Remember, unless you can approach your Teacher with absolute humility and consciousness of your own ignorance, you will never learn; if you are already too full of yourself and what you think you know, nothing new will percolate.

    Remember, litigation means appearing before an adjudicator.  He is only human.  It is the Mentor, with his vast experience, who can guide you and teach you how adjudicators can be lawfully persuaded and what are the ways in which you can train yourself to do it instinctively.

    These are the reasons why a Mentor is still indispensable in the world of litigation.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was at Calcutta University?

    All my theory I learnt from books, some of which I read while at the University.  All of the knowledge of law, the practical field of litigation I learnt while practising in High Court, observing others and from my own mistakes and while doing cases.  I must confess that I learnt almost nothing of law at the University College of Law – not because there was nothing to learn, but because except for a learned Advocate who took us in Legal Language and Drafting, none of our teachers of law actually knew much about what they were teaching.

    Our legal language and drafting lecturer was a practising solicitor of some reputation and he could teach us Conveyancing without referring to any book whatsoever.  He did refer us to one book, De Souza’s Conveyancing, which was an invaluable treasure.  The others just read out notes or from the bare Act which we could have done by ourselves sitting at home.  So I would say that the only reason why the University was important was because I had to go through it to get a degree which enabled me to enroll myself as an Advocate.  I would tend to agree with the people who say that all they have learnt is in their years of practice – with one caveat.  They must have studied in institutions like mine.

     

    protik-banerjee1

    How was the court atmosphere back then?

    We must make one thing very clear.  Litigation is not about oratory.  It may have been in the years of Cicero and Caesar but not now, not here.  Judges are there to adjudicate cases and lawyers assist them.  Our job is to present the facts of our case as concisely and completely as possible, indicate the questions of law which arise, show the law and precedents if any, on the points and urge why our client should have judgment entered in his favour.  The opposing counsel does the same, while trying to rebut the points we have taken.

    Of course it is important to articulate and to speak in such a manner as would not detract from its content – for example very few lawyers speak English (the official language of our High Court) like an Englishman and many of them speak with a decidedly Indian or Bengali accent but that does not prevent the Judges from understanding them; again, most lawyers in our High Court speak English indifferently, giving scant respect to the rules of grammar and syntax. Yet as long as the Hon’ble Judges understand them justice is usually done.  It is only when someone speaks in such an idiosyncratic manner that it becomes painful or amusing that the delivery starts to damage the content.

    Of course it does not hurt if you speak very well, but you should take care that your flight of oratory does not irritate or bore the Judge who after all has several cases to hear and dispose of, and so your oral submissions should not be so long-winded that they become repetitious or monotonous. I guess the golden mean would be to speak fluently, pleasantly and grammatically, if possible, without putting on any airs.

    Judges took kindly to any advocate who spoke sensibly, briefly and to the point in those days.  They still do.  Sometimes, when it has been a long day and the Court has been listening to similar type of cases all day long, it pays to enliven the tedium by digressing into literature, anecdote or even by presenting the facts of your case in a novel manner, which requires a degree of oratory. Normally the Judges welcome this from lawyers with some standing in Court but discourage it among juniors, since they are afraid that encouraging light-heartedness from those yet to earn their spurs could lead to facetiousness or flippancy, as one Hon’ble Judge (now retired) actually said to me.  It was a company case and my client, an intending auction purchaser, was seeking inspection of the assets of the company being wound up.  The Official Liquidator’s department, which had custody of the movables, was notorious in those days for carelessness and allowing pilferage.

    So, when His Lordship seemed inclined to refuse my prayer and asked me “But they are in the custody of the Court through the Official Liquidator, so why are you bothered?” and I responded with lightning speed, “But that is precisely the reason for my client’s apprehension, My Lord”.  For a moment the entire court was dumbstruck and then everyone broke out in laughter, including the Hon’ble Judge.

    However, in a moment His Lordship turned somber and menacing and said “This Court does not appreciate facetiousness from counsel”.  I was suitably abashed and tendered my apology.  I got the order I wanted after that.  The lesson to be drawn is that the Court understood what I said was perfectly correct and would have probably accepted it in that form if I had been a little more senior, but expected that a junior counsel would rephrase the submission.

    My experience in the first few sessions was ghastly.  The first time I spoke in Court, I choked up for a moment.  This was despite the fact that I had done a considerable amount of public speaking and the Presiding Judge was someone who had been affably chatting with me the evening before, at a soiree, where I had been mixing the music for the performers.  He was the guest of honour.  I ought not to have been afraid.

    Yet the atmosphere, the feeling of being in robes, stiff, wing collars, bands and with the Judges looking down upon you from a great height, the high ceilinged rooms, almost like cathedrals, these create an ambience that is intimidating, to say the least.  It got better after that, but even today, when I rise to speak for the first time in a case, I feel a familiar tingling in my palms, sweat on my brow and a slight trembling of the knees.

     

    How did you build up your client base?

    I do not have a client base.  I was briefed by learned advocates on record who had a client base.  These advocates on record briefed me because they liked the way I submitted in Court – effective but also cost effective because in those days the others who spoke like I did charged much more than I did.  In our Court there is an understandable but wholly erroneous impression that if you argue well you must also know how to draft well.

    So, I got drafting briefs.  I drafted very quickly, typing them myself, so the solicitors got their work on time without the trouble of stenographers delaying or making mistakes which were required to be corrected.  So they gave me a lot more drafting briefs.

    The more drafting I did I got better at it, until I became, in my estimation, a competent draftsman.  Once it was found that I could draft and speak, those who had briefed me once, continued to brief me.  Yes, many a time my eccentricities, moods and half crazy working style, my irregularity in Court drove my solicitors away.  It once got so bad, I had no case at all for a month, just a few months after my daughter had been born.  It was all savings for a few months.  Then for a few years I gave up private practice and was retained by the Government of West Bengal as its Standing Counsel.  I came back to private practice in March, 2014.  I again started getting briefed by a new generation of lawyers, who had seen me arguing for the government and had heard of me from their seniors.

    A firm clientele base is something that is very enviable and I do have a few clients who keep on coming back to me for everything – whether it is a draft, a conveyance, a case in Court or just an opinion.  These are usually clients who had some business related case where their learned advocate had briefed me once and by God’s Grace we had succeeded in it, and thereafter they insisted that I be briefed in everything that concerned them.

    This therefore is a result of results – in other words, if you work hard and your lay-client appreciates it, chances are that he will ask his learned advocate on record to go on briefing you.  There is, therefore, no hard and fast parameter of any number of years of practice for building up a client base – there is only work that you have do and give your best; my advice would be, forget about getting a client base, and do whatever work you get as well as you can.  The rest will follow.

     

    protik-banerjee4Did you build everlasting relation with your clients?

    Everlasting relation with my clients!  Are you mad!  If you build an everlasting relation with your clients, better make him your friend and do his work for free.  Why do you think a client does not usually do his case himself?  He knows the facts of his own case better than any lawyer ever can or would.  If he is educated and intelligent he can read the same cases and research the law on the internet.  Arguably, apart from intricacies of jurisprudence, he can put up as good a fight as any lawyer, yet he engages advocates.

    He does this because as a client he is indelibly imprinted with the justice of his own cause and try as he might, he always sees the facts from his own point of view and allows his emotions to cloud his perception about the facts or the defence of the other side.  A lawyer is trained to be dispassionate.  Of course he ought to believe in the merits of his client’s case, but that does not mean identifying with the client.  Yet, if you have an everlasting relation with your client (like a friend of the family so to speak) you lose that element of dispassionate analysis which alone sets you apart.  Besides, as they say in Hindi ‘ghoda ghaas se yaari karega to khayega kya?’

    It is possible for a counsel to build a long term relationship with his advocate on record but that is based on mutual respect and the results that each produce.  Personal friendship is a wholly different matter, and happens between and among people and not necessarily between lawyers and clients.

    I discourage personal relations with my clients.  Yet I treat each client in the same manner as I would treat any other person of his age.  I maintain a line, a very thin line yet a line nonetheless between them and myself.  That is the line which protects the dignity of the advocate from over-familiarity on the client’s part.  Take an example – imagine the same set of clients are briefing you over a period of years because you have worked hard for them in the past and produced results.  In time they have come to know of your daughter’s birthday, your birthday and your anniversary (because you politely declined to sit for a conference with them on those dates), your health and the plans for your vacation.

    So they bring you a cake for the birthday, an expensive sari and a suit-length for your anniversary and three air tickets, business class for your vacation.  You will be perfectly justified in accepting the first, demurring at the second but accepting them with a caveat that this should not be repeated and refusing the last.  If you do accept a gift, make sure that you present something in turn, as you would do in case of any other social occasion.  If they bring you gifts of rare alcohol, do not refuse them.

    Make sure that you send them something good that they appreciate. If they invite you to a wedding in their family, humbly accept the invitation, promise to turn up but do not – repeat, do not – make some excuse, send your juniors or even your most trusted junior along with gifts, but do not yourself accept such invitations.

    You may think that this will be impolite or even alienate your clients, but please remember, they do not fraternize with you or want to socialize with you because of your fascinating personality or your singing voice.  In the final analysis it is your talent and acumen as a lawyer they treasure, and so long as you have that and give every work they bring you the best that you can, they will gladly be with you forever.  They will ultimately end up respecting you for your principles.

    Do not even make the mistake of thinking, because of the above, that you are a service provider such as a driver or a milkman or a cook.  You do not serve your client, if you are a lawyer.  He does not even hire you.  He engages you by the hour or for particular assignments or work, for fees that he pays you or your learned advocate on record and he does it because you are a professional.  It is a profession as defined by the Hon’ble Supreme Court and it is not a part of any service industry.

    Even the government appreciates this distinction by leaving individual practitioners outside the dragnet of service tax.  It is the businessmen of law – the law firms – who render service.  Counsel and individual advocates do not.  We do our clients a favour by accepting their briefs.  The taxi-cab rule does not apply to us.  Come to think of it, the taxi-cab rules do not apply even to taxi-cabs in Calcutta.

    Being an advocate is a very heavy responsibility.  As you grow older you will appreciate it does not consist only of wearing a black coat and bands and doing “Judge Saab” like Sunny Deol in a Bollywood blockbuster or rushing to the police station with a bulging brief case to bail out your gangster client.  It requires a dedication to the rule of law, the ineffable yet ineradicable principles of justice and a commitment to the dignity of the most impartial wing of government, the last bastion of liberty and democracy in an age of increasing commercialism, capitalism and authoritarianism – to the judiciary which is forever a sentinel on the que vive.

     

    We have published the rest of the interview here: Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

  • Diwakar Kishore, Advocate, Patna High Court, on his engagement with IDIA, litigation, and working at Luthra

    Diwakar Kishore, Advocate, Patna High Court, on his engagement with IDIA, litigation, and working at Luthra

    diwakar-k4Diwakar Kishore is a graduate from NLSIU, batch of 2012. After working at Luthra for about a year, he quit it to become an independent practitioner at the Patna High Court. Presently he practices litigation at Patna High Court and also takes out time as a director of IDIA

    In this interview we talk to him about:

     

    Tell us a bit about life before college.

    I finished my schooling in Patna, Nainital and Kota. I went to a boarding school at an early age and it helped me a lot as an individual and gave me many wonderful friends.

    My father is a lawyer, and I grew up in a house full of AIR-SCC volumes. My sister also took up law after high school and had married a lawyer. So yes, law was a familiar field.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    As I said, my father is a lawyer, so it was not a field that was unfamiliar to me. After spending a few months preparing for IIT and truly realizing how much I hated chemistry, I did a bit of soul searching and drifted towards law (not NLS). I was (just) fortunate to make it to NLS.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals?

    Mooting is generally an activity that one lets go of on graduating from law school, but this does not mean its utility doesn’t carry over into the real world. In addition to providing a rigorous training that examinations or mere academia cannot offer, mooting and activities like writing for academic journals provide you with experience and skills that are invaluable in legal practice, such as clarity of thought, time management, clear argumentation and the ability to work under immense pressure. These are skills that would never be redundant to lawyers, in law school and out. While the actual law may be ever changing, these are skills that will always be useful.

     

    What do you feel about the perception that students of certain ‘elite’ NLU’s have a much easier time in kickstarting their career as compared to law students from other colleges?

    Certainly it would seem that some firms have a slight bias towards students from top NLUs. However, the beautiful thing about a field as diverse as law is that there are umpteen opportunities and options available to young graduates, from litigation to corporate law to social work to advocacy, teaching and academia and much more. Law as a field is growing every day, and its effect is seen in so many spheres that there are always meaningful ways and opportunities to work and engage with the law.

     

    Tell us about the trimester system at NLS.

    NLS has the unique trimester system followed by very few colleges in India. Rather than having two semesters every year, we have three trimesters a year. I think it is a very effective model. We did four courses in a span of three-four months. Now, even though the time-span seems short, the well structured organised course at NLS helped us cope with the trimester system threw at us.

    I am yet to meet a student (from any discipline) who tells me that that the academic system and faculty at his/her college is impeccable. As far as the question of the freedom that the trimester system offers to law students goes, I think the recent success of NLS students at national and international competitions is testimonial to the fact that you can do enough and more to develop yourself in any system, if you really put your mind to it.

     

    Which internships did you pursue during your graduation?

    I pursued a variety of internships at law school. I interned as a teaching assistant in several colleges, worked under practicing lawyers and did a few corporate internships. I looked at internships as an opportunity to test and sample various fields of law, to see if we were suitable for each other. College is one of the last places where one has the opportunity to just try various things; I looked at internships as one such opportunity, which is why I tried to take up as many different internships as possible.

     

    Were these internships all planned or just happened on the go?

    Some were planned, others came along the way. My training at law school proved to be useful, but I tried to regard internships as opportunities to learn more, as opposed to exhibiting what I do know. There are certain tasks unique to working life that college cannot hope to prepare one for, and good internships bridge this gap perfectly.

     

    Tell us about working at Luthra & Luthra.

    I was offered a job at Luthra through campus placements while I was in my fourth year of college. It was surprising for me and for a few others as I had never interned at a top law firm neither did I have the grades to be called the crème de la crème  of my batch. I think my teaching experience along with the practical knowledge that I had acquired during my internships came to my rescue.

    Corporate lawyers are required to do a variety of things during the course of the day. Documentation, research, negotiations, coordinating with clients, counsel of the opposite side and government agency; one might be required to do any or all of these things in a single day (and night) at a law firm. It is slightly difficult to describe a typical day at work at a law firm.

     

    diwakar-k2How did you get involved in IDIA?

    While the work at Luthra was challenging for sure, I was not happy with the extremely limited engagement with real law that such job provided. I left Luthra to be more involved with public law and hence, my obvious destination was litigation. I started practicing in Patna High Court after Luthra. While it’s true that early days in litigation is anything but ‘lucrative’, but I found the work to be more fulfilling. However, after practicing law for a few months, I realised that ‘justice’ in a court room does not necessarily translate into substantive changes at the grassroots level. Coming from one of the poorest states in India and after studying in one of the best colleges of this country, I felt the need to be more closely associated with my community and that is why I joined IDIA. Along with litigation, I am excited to work with the law in a different and useful way that brings more people into rather tightly-knit legal fraternity, and IDIA does just that.

     

    What is it like being an independent legal practitioner at the Patna High Court?

    Compared to a corporate job, in the initial day’s litigation posses very different set of challenges: (i) pay is bad, (ii) clients are rare, (iii) there is a lot of running around and dealing with a variety of people from different strata’s of society, and (iv) there is a lot of uncertainty – you might lose a great case because the judge feels differently. However, few and far between, when you do win a case all by yourself, that moment of joy is priceless.

    I believe that having a personal mentor is invaluable in any profession, not just litigation. It provides unparalleled professional guidance, and there are certain skills, tips and tricks that come only with professional experience. Having a mentor not only familiarizes you with the profession, but is also a way to make your skills, merit and services more well known amongst the others in Court. Having a good mentor often works as an additional affirmation of your skill and ability, both to other lawyers and clients.

     

    diwakar-k1How is the environment at Patna High Court? Do the judges take kindly to the young lawyers? Any experience at the HC you would want to share?

    I found the Patna High Court to be an interesting place. Several judges have been extremely supportive, and actively recognize and encourage young lawyers such as myself. It’s really quite encouraging when a judge notices you or your arguments, and I’ve seen several judges make it a point to drop a word of praise or encouragement to young lawyers such as myself.

    Justice Tripathi, of the Patna High Court, once stopped me during my arguments to ask me which college I studied law from. I was taken aback at his question but when I finally told him that I had studied law from NLS, Bangalore, he smiled and said: “It seemed like it”. It was a very unusual thing to happen in a court room but something that I will cherish for a long time.

    A perception that deters many students from pursuing a career in litigation instead of at law firms is deemed to be the initial grind that has to be undergone for the first few years. From your experience is it really such a rough journey for a new lawyer in the legal profession?

    New litigators certainly do not have it easy, but then again, no new job is a cakewalk! Every good profession requires a foundation of at least a few years of solid hard work, and litigation is no exception. It’s difficult to weigh a profession in terms of pros and cons and decide which the “best” option is: there really is no such general answer, one must merely find the career option that suits your skills and interests best. I find litigation to be exciting, challenging and fulfilling, which, for me, more than adequately compensates for the “grind”.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    Five year plans does not work in most systems. For me, it’s more realistic to function on an annual basis: priorities might alter five years down the line and there is no reason to stick to a plan that I made as a different person altogether.

    While today I feel, I should go back to teaching sometime in the future, this coming year, I would like to continue my practise of the law along with the work I do for IDIA. I enjoy working for disenfranchised and it gives a sense of purpose and meaning to my life right now.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for all the law students reading this?

    If at all, be in the rat race after tiring out many things and enjoying the company of the rats, the most. It’s rather stupid to want to work somewhere because others around you say that they would like to work there. Do not waste law school by worrying about the life after. Be kind to yourself and have some fun with the law and the friends that your college has to offer. You will miss them once they are gone.