Super Lawyer

Category: Academics, Researchers and International Organisations

  • Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore in 1998 and has been the co-founder of Alternative Law Forum. He is based out of Bangalore, and is widely known across the legal fraternity for his campaigns on issues of public concern, especially on conflicts of Intellectual Property and medical accessibility.

    Soon after his graduation he received the Chevening Scholarship and did a Masters in Law and Development from the University of Warwick. He holds a Ph.D in Film Studies  from Jawaharlal Nehru University and a Post-graduate Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore. Over the course of his career he has immersed himself in human right issues, media law and legal writing. He is currently a visiting faculty fellow at Yale.
    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His time at NLSIU and Warwick and his educational qualifications
    • His various experiences as a Fullbright Scholar, Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, and the Hughes Visiting Scholar.
    • Alternative Law Forum
    • His work with iCommons, the Sarai Institute and Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.
    • How he combined media and law
    • His experience as a member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008
    • His views on human rights advocacy

     

    What could be a short introduction of yourself?

    Hi, my name is Lawrence Liang and I am a legal researcher and writer based in Bangalore. I was one of the co-founders of the Alternative Law Forum, a collective of lawyers working on public interest issues and I have been involved with ALF for around 15 years. I left ALF in 2015 and I am currently a visiting faculty fellow  at Yale.

     

    You received an English Honours in English Literature from St. Joseph’s College, Bangalore before graduating with a law degree from NLSIU. What prompted the choice to study law?

    An early fascination with law – possibly prompted by popular culture – drew me towards law, but more than a clear idea of wanting to do law, I was clear that I had no inclination towards the sciences and at that point of time pursuing my first love – literature – didn’t seem like a feasible career option. Also it was the time that the National law school had just been set up and we started encountering a number of the NLS students in the quizzing and debating circuit and they seemed like some of the brightest people we had met. On inquiring further we figured that the law school was an an incredible experiment to revamp legal education and appeared to be the most exciting place that one could be in. My English Honours was actually alongside my time at law school. This was at St. Josephs’ where the department used to offer English Honors programs open to all, and in many ways doing this alongside the law shaped many of my subsequent interests in inter disciplinary studies, and in law and literature. While we we were studying subjects like copyright in law school, we were also being exposed to critical theory at Josephs, and one could start seeing the connections between ideas of authorship which were so central to copyright but being differently interrogated by thinkers like Michel Foucault and Roland Barthes. It convinced me of the need to have a wider approach to the law than just legal formalism.

     

    What work did your masters in Law and Development involve in Warwick?

    The Law in development program was attractive to those of us interested in a critical perspective mainly because Prof. Upendra Baxi taught there, and his scholarship had been very important to us. Warwick has a wonderful history of a engagement with law from a global south perspective and while there, my main learning was to develop a sharp ideological understanding of law and political economy especially in the way that it impacted questions of justice.

     

    As a recipient of the British Chevening Scholarship, what opportunities did that open up for you? Was there a process for application for the scholarship?

    The Chevening scholarship was literally the only way I could have afforded doing a Masters in the UK and we were lucky at that time that they had two scholarships for people interested in law and development. There was an application and interview process and the interview was a bit of a disaster, so I was rather lucky that I actually managed to get the scholarship. My time at Warwick helped shape an interest in activist lawyering and I started thinking about the need to set up a space after returning. I also took the opportunity to do courses that allowed me to dive into the continental philosophical tradition which significantly shaped my intellectual and political outlook.

     

    You were the Best Outgoing Student at Warwick! What activities did you engage in there besides academics?

    It is amazing that I got any work done there actually considering it was also a year of being passionately in love. But since cross border romances are best conducted under the shadows of culture I managed to watch many art house films and plays which I did not get to see in India, and the summer was one long cricket match rudely interrupted with thesis and course work breaks.

     

    You have a Ph.D from the Jawaharlal Nehru University Film Studies Dept. and a PG Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for study of Culture and Society as well. How did you come to cultural studies? Did it have an impact on your approach to law?

    Strangely enough while I turned to cultural studies and film studies from a boredom with law, they also enabled me to return to the law with renewed interest, but with a slightly modified perspective. My interest in cultural theory allowed me to read the law not merely from within its internal logic of rules and norms, but through a symbolic register where one could read law as culture. In recent times it is the discipline of anthropology which has been most exciting for me and the work of legal anthropologists like Pratiksha Baxi, Annelise Riles, Perveez Mody in domains as varied as rape law, international finance and the Special Marriages Act have been very exciting and inspiring for anyone interested in the workings of the law both in theory and practice.

     

    As a Fullbright Visiting Scholar in Columbia University at the Anthropology Department, what did your work entail?

    My time at Columebia offered me a chance to finish work on my doctoral thesis, and being at the anthropology department was to be a part of a fantastic intellectual community which allowed me to interact with many people whose work I have admired over the years. Brian Larkin who has worked on an ethnography of media piracy is a kindred spirit and he was my host while I was there. In some ways anthropology has emerged as the intellectual refuge for many disciplines and the number of law graduates who have becomes anthropologists is a good indication of what a fertile field it is especially in a country with as complex a legal system as India where numerous legal traditions and temporalities coexist and collide with each other.

     

    Now you are the Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, at Yale Univ. for the academic year 2016-17. What do you focus your teaching on?

    I am teaching two courses, one is a cinema course where I look at the social life of cinema in India moving beyond the cinematic text to focus on spatial and technological histories, fan clubs, labour histories etc. The second course I am teaching is on the Trial and its public effects in India where I look at key trials that captured the public imagination in India in the colonial and postcolonial context. I move between cases like the Tilak trial, the INA trials to the Nanavati case and the Arushi trial as a way of looking at the public life of law in India, and the way that trial becomes a critical event that recalibrates ideas of politics and public morality. It also becomes a story about the intersection between law and media since these very public trials become a theatre of justice constantly mediated by different technologies of mass media and legal trials become an effective site for the staging of dramaturgies of justice.

     

    As the Hughes Visiting Scholar, Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan University in 2014, were there any interesting conclusions to your work then, that you could share?

    Michigan was a brief stint in which I got to test out some of the ideas that I had been working on at the time especially on ideas of forensic imagination and the rise of forensics in legal process. I was interested at that time in the idea of the doctored image, narco analysis etc and my friend Joyojeet Pal who teaches at Michigan is also interested in information politics so there was a superb synergy. I was there just after the Polar Vortex which meant that the extreme cold ensured that you just lock yourself up and do your work without any distraction. Ann Arbor represents the best and worst that a life in ideas could represent- the Ivory tower you are confined in because it is just too snowy to step outside but where you keep warm in good intellectual company.

     

    You were a Co-founder of ALF. How did the idea develop to start that?

    lawrence-liang-2ALF was both the result of many years of conversations with friends as well as strangers who were as excited about the possibility of the experiment. Most of us had done some time with human rights lawyers or organizations, and while we were inspired by the legacy of critical lawyering India, we also felt the lack of a space that brought together litigation, activism and academic research. ALF was born out of a belief that there was a need to bring together these in a way that broke the barrier between theory and practice, and to a certain extent we were successful even if this was not without its attendant difficulties. The temporal nature of litigation and activism is always about the immediate and the urgent while research has a longer durée, and sometimes these can be in conflict with each other. But at ALF I was lucky to be in the company of extremely passionate and committed people, and I learnt that one’s political stances are not just learnt from the outside world but equally in these small experiments at collective living and working. To believe in an abstract idea of the right to equality is one thing, to actualize it in your practice is much more difficult, but in trying to do so you learn more about the abstract value as well.

     

    What work does ALF focus on? Is there a unique work culture that volunteers or employees are expected to adhere to or anything in particular that is expected from them?

    ALF works in a variety of areas from access to the criminal justice system, the politics of intellectual property, sexuality, labour etc. From the start we were committed to the idea of a non hierarchical workspace which was organized on the basis of collective responsibility- again much easier in principle than in practice- but I think an informal ethos and a respect for each other’s work is what attracted people towards ALF. Given the relatively modest salaries that we were offering, what made ALF attractive for many people was that it offered a vibrant intellectual and political environment, a collegial space underwritten by friendship and the chance to do work which you could see had some impact at least  on the lives of people.

     

    What impact has working at ALF had on your life outlook?

    This one will probably need more space than I have, but one simple one is a recognition that while the law is often a leaky umbrella, often it is the only one we have. And the real challenge of an ideological critique of the law is not to disavow it, but to deploy as effectively as possible using its own logic to work for those whom it normally works against. Apart from the professional side, it has shown me via the words of Neil Gaiman that inside everyone are strange and surprising universes and to work together is to be invited to universes that one would not normally be a part of.

     

    Tell us a bit about the Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.

    Pad.ma is an online archive of video and documentary footage. It seeks to create a visual archive of densely annotated clips and Indiancine.ma tries to do the same for Indian films. These are collaborations with a fantastic group in Berlin, Pirate Cinema and Camp in Mumbai. They arise from a simultaneous interest in visual culture as well as in the radical potential of open access.

     

    You have shown remarkable commitment to a variety of causes over the years. What are the major causes you espouse? Did you always know what issues you wanted to work on or did that happen with time?

    While one always has a vague sense of values that one is committed to, the commitment to specific issues often arises from a particular context. For instance while I was generally interested in media laws, it was through the process of working with Vikalp (A group of documentary film makers who came together to fight censorship) that you are then forced to dive into and in some sense try and master a particular field. Similarly with issues of access to knowledge, the specific context of the DU photocopy case both confirms the importance of a politics of knowledge even as it refines the political stance you had through the technical prism of law. To be simultaneously committed to things you believe in even as you remain open to contingent forces that change or alter your politics is both exhilarating and inspiring. There is a lovely saying that revolutions should be born out of joy not sorrow, and I think we often derive out vitality from the energy of those we see around us, who in the face of extreme injustice are still defiantly hopeful for a better world.

     

    Tell us how you have managed to combine media and law?

    We live in a mediatized world where it is difficult to imagine any aspect of our lives which are not touched by media. From cinema to the internet, media occupies and shapes our consciousness, so it no coincidence that the world of law becomes crucially enmeshed with that of media. In a narrow sense that would mean the regulation of media, but in a broader sense it also means the transformation of law itself where law also becomes mediatized. The emergence of sting operations, the prevalence of trial by media are crucially media effects even as they are legal events, and to think of the contemporary is to think of media. Ravi Sundaram whose work has been very influential for me has a book which theorizes India ‘after media’ and in a sense he posits that everything changes after media and as a legal scholar you are bound to account for what that means in the legal world.

     

    What is you role in iCommons? What do you strive to achieve there?

    The Creative commons movement was a very important moment that showed us the possibility of what an alternative imaginary to the closed world of copyright could be. It expressed a philosophy of sharing and the creative potential of it contrasted with the diminishing of the public domain by strong IP regimes. It was also beset by its own limitations being enshrined within the idea of liberal legality, and for someone coming from India, where you could see the democratizing potential of illicit practices such as piracy, my own role was to contextualize what something like the CC movement meant in the global south, but also to nuance the debate with an understanding of the social and cultural worlds of knowledge sharing beyond the law.

     

    What work have you done in collaboration with Sarai?

    Sarai was one of the most exciting and important media and cultural spaces that emerged in early 2000’s which opened up all kinds of possibilities in the public discourse around art, media and urban space. It was set up jointly by the Raqs media collective and faculty members of CSDS and they supported the most cutting edge work in theory and practice for many years. The range of fellowships they offered, the legacy of the work they supported (from artists to graphic novelists) has been phenomenal. I started collaborating with Sarai in 2002, and it was a combination of boldness and generosity on their part which also helped ALF in its formative years. They saw a bunch of passionate and smart lawyers who wanted to try something new and supported us (intellectually and financially) helping us set our foundations. In 2005 we organized a global conference on intellectual property called Contested Commons and Trespassing Publics which I think made a significant impact on the global discourse on IP. We also co organized an event called World Information City that brought together artists and theorists thinking about idea and politics knowledge era as they played out in the lives of cities. My conversations with Jeebesh Bagchi, Ravi Sundaram, Ravi Vasudevan, Shuddhabrata Sengupta and others opened up ways of thinking from the diverse worlds of art, cinema and technology. Sarai, I think, allowed for us to see the various expressive forms that thought can take, and the traditional academic form of scholarship was both something they showed the limits of even by pushing the boundaries of how scholarship could be creatively and energetically expanded.

     

    You have several publications to your credit! How do you choose when to write about what? Do you think research and publishing is very important for a law student?

    Sometimes you choose to write because you are following an intuition, a curiosity and an intellectual itch. Other times a specific areas chooses you by virtue of its immediacy. At any rate for academics to write is to think and even though the act of writing is often a painful process every once in a while in the midst of writing you realize you are expressing thoughts you didn’t even know you had. So yes writing is crucial for law students, and I am grateful for the endless projects that we had to do as law school. I don’t think law school really teaches you law, what it does teach you is how to think about the law, how to forage for research material and how to put together an argument. What I do think is important is to fight the very real possibilities of writing becoming a painful drudgery (often the case with academic writing) and to experiment with different forms which retain the joyfulness of writing. For me writing in a range of forums from art journals, newspapers and academic spaces has been the key to maintaining my sanity since the joy of writing can easily be assassinated by footnotes. But more than a writer I think of myself as a reader, and writing for me is often is an excuse to make sense of what I am reading and to have imaginary conversations.

     

    Please tell us about your experience as a Member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008?

    This was a considerably difficult period in Sri Lanka, the civil war was at its peak and one of the immediate casualties was free speech. Journalists and editors were being targeted – often killed by the state as well as the LTTE. It was humbling to learn of the incredibly difficult circumstances under which journalists were doing their work and as members of the drafting committee we were privy to a remarkable set of testimonies. It reminded me of Foucault’s idea of parhessia- an idea that preceded the idea of free speech and referred to fearless speech- reminding us of the high stakes involved in speaking truth to power, and the small role that lawyers can play in nurturing a safe home of fearless speech. The experience really shaped my understanding of free speech laws in India and to appreciate the relatively good jurisprudence that exists on free speech in India. All the more crucial in these days when sedition charges are thrown about like cheap change and when shrill blood hungry media anchors become the greatest dangers to free speech.

     

    What changes do you hope to see in human rights advocacy in India over the next decade?

    With the mushrooming of law schools all over India, I hope that we in addition to producing lawyers for law firms, we also produce a generation of lawyers who continue a critical tradition. The law students I meet today are remarkably bright- certainly smarter than we were- they are born digital and command an enviable ease with all kinds of online research skills, and what would be fantastic is to have more lawyers who are able to engage with human rights issues not just in a generic sense of political empathy, but to deploy their legal skills in understanding and critiquing mainstream areas of law. What the human rights movement needs are more lawyers who know corporate law, insurance, taxation etc. In other words we need lawyers who understand the belly of the beast but also understand that the beast preys upon those who are most vulnerable and to be an effective human rights lawyer means internalizing Part 3 of the constitution, but also understanding how corporate governance can affect the same Part 3.

     

  • Aditya Swarup, Assistant Professor, Jindal Global Law School on being a Rhodes Scholar, and pursuing BCL & M.Phil from Oxford

    Aditya Swarup, Assistant Professor, Jindal Global Law School on being a Rhodes Scholar, and pursuing BCL & M.Phil from Oxford

    Aditya Swarup graduated in law from the  National Academy of Legal Studies and Research University in 2010. He was also awarded the Rhodes’ Scholarship the same year, after which, he obtained his Bachelor of Civil Laws degree from the University of Oxford in 2011. He then went on to do his Masters’ degree in Philosophy from University of Oxford in 2012. During his time at Oxford, he focused on various courses such as Restitution, Civil Procedure and Comparative Public Law.

    After practicing law for a few years, he took a break to focus on his research and teaching. He is currently working as an Assistant Professor at the prestigious Jindal Global Law School and is serving as the Assistant Director of the International Institute of Higher Education and Capacity Building.

    In this interview, Aditya talks about: –

    • What made him pursue a legal career;
    • His interests and areas of focus;
    • His journey towards becoming a Rhodes’ Scholar;
    • His views on the Indian Judicial System; and
    • What a student must have, aside from academics in order to have a successful legal career.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am Aditya Swarup, currently an Associate Professor at Jindal Global Law School. Before joining academia, I used to work as an associate at a solicitor’s firm in Mumbai, practising primarily in the Bombay High Court and the Supreme Court.

    What led you to enter the legal profession?

    During my 12th standard, I cleared the UPSC-NDA exam and SSB interview and was slated to join National Defence Academy, Khadakvasla with the prospect of joining the Indian Airforce thereafter. However, after a lot of thinking, I decided not to join the Airforce. At the same time, given that I had secured only 59.8% in my class 12 exams, I was denied admission by most of the good colleges. Law happened to be one of the disciplines where your 12th standard marks didn’t matter and all one had to do was to clear an entrance exam. Accordingly, I took a year off and prepared for the law entrance exams for various law colleges (we didn’t have CLAT then) and got through NALSAR.

     

    Would you like to share with the readers any particular instances during your time spent at NALSAR, which helped shape your views about the law?

    aditya-swarup-3In or around November, 2008, I had the good fortune of interning with Mr. Tehmtan Andhyarujina, former Solicitor General of India. At the time, he was arguing Selvi v. State, a case concerning the constitutionality of narco analysis before the Supreme Court of India. He had only one junior and involved me extensively in the case. I think preparing for the final arguments in that matter, that went on for two whole weeks, has been one of the best experiences in my life. At the end of my internship, Mr. Andhyarujina gave me the most inspirational talk about litigation and Jamshedji Kanga’s chamber and presented me with a copy of Prashant Bhushan’s book “The case that shook India”, a factual account of Indira Gandhi v. Raj Narain. The book also had a transcript of the Keshavananda Bharti review. It is then that I decided to pursue a career in litigation and Mr. Andhyarujina has helped me ever since.

     

    What are your primary interests in the legal profession? Why?

    During my formative years at law school and immediately after, I used to be quite interested in human rights advocacy. To this end, I used to pursue a lot of work in Chattisgarh and other conflicted regions. After my B.C.L, I took a keen interest in commercial law. I was intrigued by common law decisions on contracts, restitution and civil procedure and the manner in which each statement by a Judge in his judgment impacts the law. I have pursued an interest in commercial law ever since.

     

    During your time at NALSAR, what extra–curricular and co–curricular activities, if any, did you participate in? How do you think these activities affected your take away from law school?

    Unlike most students during their time at law school, I did not participate in many moots while at NALSAR. In fact, I participated in just one moot, i.e. the Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot and incidentally, won the best speaker award there. I also debated just once, that too in my final year. However, I spent most of my time writing papers and in research. I feel this interest allowed me to attempt to critique the law beyond what is given in the text book. In fact, the publications have also immensely helped me with my scholarship and post graduate courses.

     

    You wrote your M.Phil dissertation on “Interim Injunctions and Judicial Delays in India”, discussing injunction hearings taking the role of mini – trials in India. Can you tell us something about it?

    aditya-swarup-1One of the most significant and engaging aspects of a civil suit is the granting of an interlocutory injunction pending the final decision in the matter. The grant of such an injunction is, in theory, purely provisional in nature, with the objective of maintaining status quo, and in the hope that a party doesn’t suffer from irreparable harm. However, in most circumstances, such injunctions are maintained for the entire length of the suit, the length of the suit then itself being a critical issue. A final determination of a civil suit in India can take anyway upwards of 7 years. This poses a peculiar predicament to the Indian legal system in the sense that though an interim measure is merely meant to be provisional, since it lasts the length of the suit, it achieves a sort of finality- an unintended and inevitable consequence. Considering the predicament that currently plagues the Indian judicial system, i.e., an insurmountable backlog of over 300,000 cases, interim injunctions, instead of serving its purpose now merely serve as a clog in the judicial system.

    In light of the above, I studied the relationship between judicial backlog and interim injunctions, culminating in a phenomenon that has acquired the term ‘mini-trials’- where the court conducts a thorough examination of the merits of the case at the interim stage so as to dispose the matter. A similar situation existed in England in the 1960’s and 70s, and I sought to examine the lessons learnt from that experience and  the viability and desirability of mini trials in tackling judicial backlog in India. As part of my research, I studied every reported case on interim injunctions in India.  

     

    What is your opinion of the current proposals to reduce judicial backlog? From which country/countries should India draw inspiration to solve this issue? Why?

    I believe that the solution to reducing case pendency is not to merely increase the number of judges but to bring about structural changes in the system. Unfortunately, most authorities, including the Law Commission, and lawyers stress on increasing the number of courts and judges to reduce case pendency.

    We should be mindful and borrow from the American experience. A series of suggestions were made in 1959 in the United States to address the increasing case load. The reforms that made their way out of these suggestions were primarily aimed at increasing the number of courts and judicial officers. The result however, was contrary to what was expected. The records showed that the caseload actually increased subsequent to the implementation of the reforms. This consequence has been explained by the renowned American Judge Richard Posner who rightly argued in a landmark paper that “reforms” increasing the number of judges and courts would only have an ad hoc effect. While being initially effective, in the long run, realising the efficacy of the legal system, it would merely result in more litigation. To buttress his argument – he drew upon a rather unusual analogy – while initially a new highway would serve the purpose of easing out traffic, road conditions would in fact induce people who had previously used other modes of transportation, to switch to driving. This would only result in leading to greater congestion. In this light, merely increasing the number of judges or courts is not going to be enough to tackle the predicament plaguing India’s judicial system – one must also address institutional changes and the culture of litigation prevalent in the country.

    The measures to reduce judicial backlog should also include the introduction of information and communication technology (ICT) support systems, developing online procedures for the filing of documents, notification of court dates, periodic reminders for submission of documents, service of documents via email and the like with an aim to have time bound litigation. A judge ought to decide cases and not allot dates. It is also important that we implement the procedure of costs following the event as provided in the CPC.

     

    In the year 2010, you were awarded the “Rhodes Scholarship”. How much does one have to achieve in order to be awarded such an esteemed scholarship? How did the scholarship benefit your professional career?

    The Rhodes Scholarship, unlike other scholarships, looks at the all round achievements of the individual based on criteria of academics, co-curriculars, leadership, social services and sports. In this sense, I believe that the Rhodes Scholarship is not just a scholarship to study in Oxford but a process and an experience. A process, in the sense that the very process of applying for the scholarship and meeting the various criteria helps one reflect on their life and achievements. An experience, because once you join Oxford, you are amidst a community of highly qualified achievers and even interacting with them is inspirational. I made some great friends amongst the other scholars. As regards my professional career, very few people in India and more particularly, the Bombay High Court were aware that I got the Rhodes so it didn’t matter.

     

    What is the primary purpose of the site, Something About the Law?

    (Aditya is currently the owner and author of the website, Something About the Law)

    Something About the Law was a blog that was started by my classmate Arun Mohan and myself while at law school. We used to write on various public policy and social issues from time to time. The idea of the blog was not merely to spread awareness about certain legal issues but also to individually hone our respective writing skills. To this end, I think the blog greatly helped me critically analyse various legal issues. During our penultimate year at law school, we started the Socio-Legal debates – the idea being that we would get distinguished speakers to fly down to NALSAR and debate with each other on issues with the entire debate being streamed online. We secured sponsors for the events and enjoyed packed audiences.

     

    Many a people in the legal practice are awestruck when they look at your long list of publications. Do you have any advice for any of our readers who might be interested in having their research papers and articles published?

    Haha. I am quite perturbed by the fact that students rarely read full cases or books now a days. If any research needs to be done, one instantly looks at online databases rather than open an authority on the subject and read the entire chapter. In fact, I myself used to do this while at law school till I was told by senior lawyers and well-wishers to read full cases (not just paragraphs or head notes). The utility of opening a book and reading all that is written about an issue, including its theoretical underpinnings also acts as a revision and strengthens the foundations of the reader. On the other hand, merely searching for a point of law online lacks these aspects.

    I believe this practice continues to help me in my research and understanding of the law and I would advise the readers to develop this habit, irrespective of whether they are interested in research and publications.

     

    You have recently taken a break from practicing law to teach and pursue research. What made you take this break? What are you currently focusing your research on? What are your views on the topic?

    I’ve taken a break primarily to strengthen my own foundations in commercial law, primarily contracts and commercial remedies. I am currently researching on the area of commercial remedies, i.e. injunctions, damages for breach of contracts, specific performance and trust based remedies (a largely ignored subject in India). One of the projects I’ve undertaken is to chart out a theory of damages in India. I’ve also taken a “break” to see if academia is my calling.

     

    Would you like to share any views on the state of legal education in India?

    There are a few disturbing aspects about the state of legal education and the profession in the country. Each of these stem from the fact that the legal profession in India is largely unorganised.

    First, it is quite tragic that even though we have only about 15 National Law Schools and about 5 other good legal institutions (20 in total), we cannot get adequate faculty to teach in these law schools. I was quite disturbed to read online that students at HNLU Raipur and NLU Assam were constrained to protest because they didn’t have adequate faculty or facilities. What was even more disturbing is the report that students at NLU Ranchi were asked to write their end-semester exams without being taught the subject. This points to an alarming trend in legal education.

    Second, and on a related note, not much is being done to attract talent into academia. A lot of students from national law schools are now pursuing LLMs, M.Phils and Ph.Ds. In fact, as of today, about 35 people from my batch of NALSAR itself have completed their Masters from reputable institutions. However, there is hardly any incentive, monetary or otherwise, for many of these students/alumni to get into academia. If one spends lakhs on their Masters, it is likely that they would need a job that can help pay off the loan. It should not then be expected that such person will join an institution that pays little.

    Third, despite graduating from most of these law schools, it is hard for the students to get jobs. This stems from the fact that the legal sector in India is largely unorganised and it is still hard to make it within the system if you don’t have any support/backing. Any organisation only exists in the law firms where one can be said (though some believe it exists here too) to be recruited on the basis of their competence. However, the supply of graduates from the national law schools and other reputable institutions largely overshadows the demand at the law firms.

    I believe that one of the advantages of a law degree is that there are many career options available to a lawyer after graduation. One may consider a career in litigation, law firms, corporates, human rights, the NGO sector, public policy, UPSC, the UN, journalism and the like. Legal institutions must capitalise on these advantages and help students diversify their career options after law school. At the same time, institutions like the Bar Council of India must strive to organise the profession in such a way that one isn’t disadvantaged because he or she doesn’t have a mentor or any backing in the profession.

     

    Finally, what is your message for our readers, most of whom are college students?

    The law school curriculum is structured in a way that exposes the student to many facets of the law. However, one notices that the moment a student joins law school, he or she is focused on joining a corporate firm, UPSC or the like. While it is good to be ambitious and have a plan, the student must not shut out his or her options. It is beneficial to be exposed to different areas of the law and then make a decision on what line to pursue. Students must also pursue research.

  • Vishavjeet Chaudhary, Assistant Professor, Jindal Global Law School and Barrister (Inner Temple) on LL.M from Cambridge and academic research

    Vishavjeet Chaudhary, Assistant Professor, Jindal Global Law School and Barrister (Inner Temple) on LL.M from Cambridge and academic research

    Vishavjeet Chaudhary graduated in law from University of Kent, Canterbury in 2011 and was called to the Bar in 2012. He went on to complete his Masters’ degree from University of Cambridge in 2013. During his time there, he pursued Criminal Justice, Philosophy of Criminal Law, History of Civil and Criminal Law, and Jurisprudence. Aside from his legal career, he is interested in Human Rights and their protection, poverty alleviation, Social Services, and Economic Empowerment.

    He is a Barrister (Inner Temple) and is currently working as an Assistant Professor at O.P. Jindal Global University’s Jindal Global Law School where he is also the Assistant Director of the Centre for Penology, Criminal Justice and Police Studies.

    In this interview, Vishavjeet talks about: –

    • What made him pursue a legal career;
    • His experience while studying in the UK;
    • His focus on pro-bono and Human Rights related work;
    • The importance of Public Speaking; and
    • The difference between the UK and India with respect to legal systems.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a Barrister, currently working as an Assistant Professor. My areas of interest are criminal law, constitutional law and human rights. I am also a very keen traveller, horse rider and agriculturist!

     

     

    What made you get into the legal practice?

    I knew that I wanted to be a lawyer when I was five years old! It partly ran in the family but my decision was not influenced by that in the slightest.  Other than the odd (I have been into full time agriculture for some time!), this resolve has been unwavering. I think one can make a genuine difference in this profession as law is something that touches everyone’s life in one way or the other. Second, this profession allows me to pursue my interests- intellectual endeavours, public speaking and interacting with a wide variety of people. Third, the independence of this area really attracted me.

     

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    What inspired you to pursue your LL.M at University of Cambridge?

    I chose my undergraduate university based on how liberal it was. The university allowed for tremendously wide multidisciplinary studies. A lot of my tutors there very kindly encouraged me to pursue Masters in Cambridge to gain deeper understanding of the law. Most of my courses were either in jurisprudence, history or crime.

    What made you focus primarily on Criminal Law?

    I find criminal law fascinating- this is an area where all facets of human social interaction are at play. It is also an area that studies the depths of human emotions- passions, insecurities (no pun), deceit and weakness. Human Rights play a pivotal role as well. As I was interested in all these areas, I focused on criminal law.

     

    While at University, what co-curricular and extra-curricular activities, if any, did you partake in?

    I gave everything a shot – from debating and mooting to Polo and American Football!

     

    How did they benefit your performance at University, academic or otherwise?

    Intellectual activities like debating helped me in organising my thoughts, developing public speaking skills and communicating my point in a clear and persuasive manner. Sports and other activities helped me in relaxing and letting off steam. Both were also great ways to socialise and get a well-rounded education.

     

    What does your work for the Centre for Penology, Criminal Justice and Police Studies entail? What purpose does this Centre serve?

    (Vishavjeet is currently serving as the Assistant Director of the Centre for Penology, Criminal Justice and Police Studies at the prestigious Jindal Global Law School)

    The CPCJPS offers cutting edge inter-disciplinary research in the areas such as victim protection, reparation, juvenile justice, police reforms, technically sound training in human rights complaint law enforcement and investigation. Our aim is to encourage dialogue between different players of the criminal justice system to contribute to this area.

     

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    What made you get interested in Human RIghts? What is the importance of pro-bono work?

    (Vishavjeet has shown keen interest in protection of Human Rights, Social Services and pro-bono work since his University days)

    I feel a big part of human life is to help. I do not say there is anything heroic about that- someone has to do it! I also find it intensely satisfying and enriching to be able to make a difference. There are few things half as rewarding as putting your knowledge to good use for betterment, no matter how small the change!

     

    How is the role of a Barrister any different from that of an advocate in Indian Courts?

    I was called to the Bar by the Inner Temple. England and Wales have a dual system- a distinction between Barristers and Solicitors. To crudely put it and to crunch centuries of history – Barristers do more advocacy and solicitors do more paper-work, conveyancing, etc.

     

    What inspirations can the Indian justice system draw from that followed in UK?

    vishavjeet-chaudhary-3Our Justice System is excellent considering everyday challenges. We do however need to urgently address issues like delays, transparency and the occasional malpractice if the system is to enjoy legitimacy and authority. All sections- judges, lawyers, the civil society- all of us need to put our heads together and work out solutions that are sustainable.

     

    How important are activities like Public Speaking and Debating for a law student?

    (During his time at Kent, Vishavjeet was the Vice – President and the Co- Founder of the Kent Debating Society. Further, he was a member of the Speakers’ Committee at Cambridge and has always stressed on the importance of public speaking)

    Exceptionally important I think. The perception is that if you do not want to get into litigation, you do not necessarily need to train as a public speaker. Public speaking regardless helps in developing wit, confidence, succinctness, persuasive knack and the ability to think on your feet. I feel that these are essential skills for a lawyer, irrespective of the area of practice. There certainly are other ways to develop these, but public speaking is definitely one of the best!

     

    What got you interested in interdisciplinary studies with respect to law? How do you intend on connecting the various disciplines?

    (One of Vishavjeet’s primary interests is appreciating law as an interdisciplinary subject by relating it to other disciplines like Philosphy, Literature and History)

    I feel we should not approach law as an overly technical subject. Borrowing from other areas  like literature and philosophy helps tremendously in broadening horizons and innovating. It is great to break the drudgery sometimes as well!

     

    From your experience of teaching, what would you like to say about the newer generations of law students? How would you say their education and way of life differs from yours as a student?

    The similarities are striking! Students today have more access (and more distractions) depending on how you use the internet, ‘applications’ and the like. I also feel they make more calculated and informed choices now.

     

    Finally, what would be your message to our readers?

    Please ensure you are making the best of each day right from day one. Time flies in college! Do talk to as many people as you possibly can, try as many new things as you can and have fun! Learn the basics of law and principles behind it to create strong foundations. Some degree of stress is inevitable, but do not overly stress and remember to enjoy college life! Good luck!

  • Abhishek Sudhir, Dean, IFIM Law College, on qualifying in law from the UK and on legal academics

    Abhishek Sudhir, Dean, IFIM Law College, on qualifying in law from the UK and on legal academics

    Abhishek Sudhir graduated from The University of Birmingham in 2008 and went on to pursue an LL.M at the University College of London. While there, he pursued Civil Litigation, Jurisprudence, Intellectual Property Law, and Company Law as a part of his general LL.M. His British legal education ended with a BPTC for procedural training in 2011 to appear before a Court in the English system.

    Having returned to India, he pursued academia and teaching at Jindal Global Law School as among the student’s favorite professor. Following his departure from the same, he was recruited as the Dean for IFIM Law College in Bangalore. He has also published on a wide variety of topics and was called upon to deposed before the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Law and Justice on the Judicial Appointments Bill.

    In his interview, he talks about;

    • What drove him to pursue the profession
    • His experience with a legal education in the UK
    • The differences between the two systems and the teaching styles
    • His journey as a law student, and subsequently as a barrister
    • The necessary traits and qualities required by legal professionals and law students today

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Well, I’m 29 years old. I currently serve as Dean at IFIM Law College which is located in my hometown and India’s IT capital Bangalore. I hold three degrees in law, all from the United Kingdom. I am a Barrister from Gray’s Inn, London and I am also enrolled with the Karnataka State Bar Council as an Advocate. I am a freelance journalist and write most often for Scroll, an online news publication. I follow/support the Indian cricket team and Arsenal, two entities that have caused me a significant amount of pain and suffering over the years!

     

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    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life. Was it your lifelong dream to be in the legal profession?

    I had a very unconventional childhood. I was raised by my maternal grandfather, who was and continues to be a source of immense support. I was obsessed with cricket and made it my life’s mission to play for India one day, quite an unrealistic dream that my grandfather supported by sending me to yearlong coaching camps for about 6-7 years. When I was about 14, I gave up on this ambition as I was nowhere close to making it and decided to “grow up”.

    Around this time I fell in love with “The Practice”, a popular American TV show that you could say was the “Suits” of my generation. The Practice, unlike Suits which has nothing to do with the law, delved into the intricacies of being a trial lawyer in the United States. The handling of the rules of evidence, the art of cross-examination and its depiction of criminal trials floored me. The cast was brilliant and they just looked so cool when they all walked the corridors of the courtroom in their fancy suits. It was the swagger associated with being a lawyer, at least in popular culture, which drew me to the profession.

     

    Your legal journey started in 2005 and that too from a foreign law school. Why did you choose a foreign law school over national law schools?

    The answer is very simple: I did not make it to any of the national law schools! Those days there was no CLAT, there were only five national law schools and you had to write individual entrance tests. I prepared for the exam with a friend of mine from school, but both of us were lackadaisical in our approach to the exams. The difference was that he was among the top 5 ranks in both the NLS Bangalore and NALSAR exams, while I was nowhere close to him.

    Not making it to one of the national law schools took its toll on me and I felt I had to prove that I belonged, that I was good enough, and not making it was just an aberration. I chose the University of Birmingham to do a 3-year LL.B for two principal reasons: first, they gave me a generous scholarship, and second, it was recognised by the Bar Council of India. So I started out in 2005 to redeem myself for the poor performance in the entrance tests, by leaving home at the age of 19 and starting afresh. It was a life-changing decision and it paid off handsomely.

     

    How is the curriculum of a foreign law school different from an Indian one?

    That’s a slightly tricky question to answer as there is no uniformity in curriculum design in Indian law schools. If I were to compare the approach to curriculum design at a State University with that adopted at an English law school, I would say there is quite a huge difference. For starters, English law schools do not teach any procedural subjects. They focus entirely on substantive law, as there are separate professional courses [Legal Practice Course (LPC) for those who want become solicitors and the Bar Professional Training Course (BPTC) for those who want to become barristers] that teach procedural law.

    Another stark difference is the emphasis on reading articles and papers written in academic journals as opposed to merely focusing on the sections in any given Act or chapters in a textbook. One further area of divergence is the minimal amount of time allocated to in-class teaching. In-class lectures are usually delivered to 100-150 students at a time. This is always followed up with tutorials where students, in groups of 10 to 15, are expected to engage with a hypothetical problem based on the in-class lecture. These tutorials are about an hour long and are usually conducted by PhD or post-doctoral students.

    There is no concept of rote learning at a foreign law school and the approach is very much centered on directed learning. The expectation is that the student will come prepared to class. That being said, no one (including the lecturers and tutors) cares if you do not do the required reading. The student is treated as a responsible adult and it is this ethos that is typified in the curriculum design.

     

    Tell us briefly about your law school experience.

    I attended three different law schools during my time in the U.K., but I would like to dwell on the three years I spent doing an LL.B at the University of Birmingham, which is one of England’s older centres of higher learning. The first year I was like a fish out of water as I was studying complex subjects like Jurisprudence and Land Law. In my first semester I was hauled up for plagiarism; I simply did not know what a citation was and I did not have the ability to construct an argument of my own. I remember getting 38 out of 100 in my very first research paper and failing European Union law by a couple of marks; those were trying times.

    In my first year I worked several part-time jobs, went out most nights and hardly ever went to class. I changed my lifestyle completely and this bore dividends as my results started to pick up in the second year. I went from getting an upper second (second class) to getting an upper first (first class) in all my subjects. This trend continued into my third year and I got a first (distinction) in every subject. I was awarded a distinction in the dissertation on Hindu Law that I wrote in my final year and this gave me immense satisfaction. I had come a long way from not knowing what plagiarism was.

    The credit for my transformation goes not to me or any professor, but to the structures in place at the University. England’s higher education system, central to which is the curriculum design, is geared to ensure that a diligent student succeeds and is given every possible opportunity to excel. It’s quite simple really: work hard or fall by the wayside.

     

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    Where did you pursue your LL.M from? What considerations should one keep in mind before deciding whether and where to do an LL.M?

    I had LL.M offers from the University of Warwick and University College London (UCL). At the time, Dr. Upendra Baxi was teaching at Warwick and this was a huge attraction. Nevertheless I chose UCL, primarily because it had a richer history and pedigree than Warwick, in addition to being located in the legal capital of the world, London. UCL also had a much bigger selection of subjects to choose from, with faculty from Oxford, King’s College and Cambridge teaching on the LL.M as visiting professors.

    The standard piece of advice people give LL.M aspirants is “make sure you are clear about which area you want to specialize in and chose the University that excels in your chosen area”. I disagree with this line of thought.

    If you have completed 5 years of legal study in India, then doing an LL.M from the U.K. or any foreign University is likely to be a completely new and alien experience. While I had three years in the U.K. before doing an LL.M, most students from India are thrown into the deep end within a few days of starting the LL.M. So it’s really important that you pick a University that has a track record of taking in Indian students and helping them acclimatize. Some Universities that come to mind are Warwick, King’s College, UCL, Cardiff, National University of Singapore, George Washington,  and NYU in the United States.

    Also, choose a General LL.M as it will give you the flexibility to study a wide array of subjects. Unless you’re from the top 5 NLU’s, it is unlikely that you have been exposed to Anglo-American teaching pedagogy and studying diverse subjects will give you much more exposure then studying four subjects dealing only with intellectual property or corporate law.

     

    After completing your education, you qualified as a Barrister-at-law. Tell us about the procedure and your experience.

    Becoming a Barrister was the fulfillment of a childhood fantasy. History was my favourite subject in school and I really enjoyed studying about the freedom movement. Some of the titans of India’s struggle for freedom, like Nehru, Gandhi, Jinnah and Sardar Patel were all Barristers. So I wanted to be one too! It seems quite silly now, but about a decade ago it was a real ambition of mine.

    In 2005, I decided to become a student-member of Gray’s Inn. Each aspiring Barrister must belong to an Inn, which is essentially his professional home and “dine” at the Inn 12 times. Historically, members of each Inn ate together, lived on the grounds of the Inn and, most importantly, worked together. I chose Gray’s as it is the smallest of the four Inns. Ambedkar, constitutional scholar K.T. Shah, former Chief Justice A.N. Ray and former Speaker of the Lok Sabha Somnath Chatterjee were all members of Gray’s Inn.

    In addition to becoming a member of the Inn, I enrolled in the Bar Professional Training Course (BPTC), which is a rigorous diploma programme that one has to complete before being “called” to the Bar. The BPTC was a once in a lifetime experience, as I was trained for countless hours in advocacy, negotiation, client counseling, examination-in-chief and cross-examination of witnesses. In July 2011, a ceremony was held at the Hall in Gray’s Inn, where I was “published” Barrister. My name appeared in The Times the next day. It was really special.

     

    What kinds of cases were mainly seen in the courts of England and what was your main area of practice there? What, if any, are the differences between England and India’s judicial system?

    My first job in England saw me working for a firm that dealt with civil litigation. Most of the cases concerned personal injury, the proverbial “slip and fall” cases. I then moved on to work for pro bono organisations that helped individuals who had court hearings but did not have legal representation. I got to take part in proceedings before the Queen’s Bench (High Court) and the Court of Appeal. Finally, I represented clients before the Social Security and Employment Tribunals as a trainee Barrister.

    Believe it or not, the common man in India has far greater access to legal representation than people in England. Litigation costs are unbelievably high and lawyers lack the human touch. Individuals who do not have the resources generally don’t get their day in court and are at the mercy of the legal aid authority. That being said, once you do get your day in court in England, you are more or less guaranteed a timely outcome. The overhaul of the Civil Procedure Rules in England has ensured this, whereas we in India, with our archaic and broken Code of Civil Procedure, 1908, continue to move at a snail’s pace.

     

    After around 6-7 years you came back to India to pursue you a career in legal academia. Was it pre-planned or was there some other reason?

    Coming back to India was pre-planned. I always wanted to practice in India. In January 2012, I passed a set of qualifying exams conducted by the Bar Council of India for people like me who were Indian nationals with foreign law degrees. In June 2012, I was enrolled as an Advocate, but due to some health issues my career had to take a backseat for almost 2 years. In January 2014, I joined the Jindal Global Law School (JGLS) as a research associate and was promoted to assistant professor in three months. It turned out to be the most rewarding experience of my career thus far, with great highs and some lows.

     

    You have deposed before the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Law and Justice on the Judicial Appointments Bill. Tell us about your experience.

    Being given an opportunity to depose before the Committee restored my faith in Indian democracy. I wrote a 20 page memo to the Committee, with suggestions on how they could improve the functioning of the proposed National Judicial Appointments Commission. I appeared before the Committee and had the opportunity to interact with the likes of Ram Vilas Paswan, who I must say is one of the most articulate politicians I have come across. The Chairman of the Committee sought me out after the proceedings and complimented me on my performance. It’s an experience that I look back on very fondly.

     

    You have various publications in academic journals and news organizations. What skills should one develop to write good research papers and articles?

    The only way you can become a better writer is by writing continuously. If you think it, write about it. And make sure you get published. Only when you publish can you gauge what the wider world thinks of your writing, as feedback is invaluable. I write an email with the same amount of thought and effort that I put into writing an article for Scroll or The Hindu. Everything you write should pay homage to the printed word, which is a thing of beauty. Even when I use Whatsapp, I craft my messages carefully!

     

    You have recently been appointed Dean at IFIM Law College. Tell us about your plans for the law school going forward.

    I am trying to implement everything I learnt in the U.K. at IFIM Law College with the support and guidance of the founder Mr. Sanjay Padode and the Principal Dr. Venugopal. Two things distinguish IFIM Law College are our emphasis on mooting from the first year itself and obtaining internships for each one of our students. We have developed a vibrant mooting culture, and each of our students has taken part in domestic and international moots. We have been able to obtain internships for almost all of our students four weeks before the start of the internship cycle.

    All in all IFIM Law College will be a student-centric law school. If they don’t grow, we don’t grow. So we will do everything in our power to ensure that our students develop into holistic, employable and socially responsible legal professionals. Being given the opportunity to setup a law school from scratch is a rare privilege in itself, but being given such a chance at the age of 29 is a rarity. I want to repay the faith the management has shown in me by making IFIM a prime destination for legal education.

     

    You have handled both litigation and teaching. Which one is more challenging and interesting?

    Litigation, in India at least, is a game of chess, with its adjournments and stalling tactics. Teaching is outcome-oriented and your performance is measured by how your students perform academically. While in litigation you are often dealing with one or two judges at the most; as a teacher you are dealing with hundreds of students, with varied backgrounds and learning needs. As a teacher, you need to satisfy a lay audience of people in their teens to their early twenties, each with their own idiosyncrasies and moods. Throw in the thankless job of being the Principal, Dean or Director along with teaching responsibilities and litigation starts looking a little easier.

     

    What advice would you like to give to our readers?

    No advice. I would like to share my favourite quote with them: “You must go on, I can’t go on, I’ll go on.”- Samuel Beckett.

  • Tarunabh Khaitan, Associate Professor, Oxford Univ, on pursuing BCL, M.Phil and D.Phil from Oxford, being a visiting scholar at NYU

    Tarunabh Khaitan, Associate Professor, Oxford Univ, on pursuing BCL, M.Phil and D.Phil from Oxford, being a visiting scholar at NYU

    Dr. Tarunabh Khaitan is an alumnus of the 2004 batch of NLSIU, Bangalore and a recipient of the prestigious Rhodes Scholarship. After completing his masters (BCL) from Oxford University, Tarunabh decided to pursue higher studies, he completed his M.Phil and D.Phil from Oxford in 2007 and 2010 respectively. Tarunabh is an Associate Professor at Oxford currently, he teaches Constitutional Law and Jurisprudence to undergraduates, Discrimination Law to graduates, and supervises research in his areas of interest.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying at NLSIU and at Oxford.
    • Building a profile and SOP for pursuing further studies at the best universities.
    • A bit about the
    • His experience working as an Associate Professor at Oxford and as a visiting scholar at New York University.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    I am an academic working on law and legal theory.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family or in close proximity? How did you come to touch with law?

    I don’t have any lawyers in my family. Where I grew up law wasn’t something one aspired to. A more urbane cousin passed on the law school prospectus and I gave it a go—entirely serendipitous. This chanced encounter with the law motivated my discussions with Shamnad Basheer on the need for diversity in law schools. I am very pleased to see his dynamism and energy in taking the IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access) project from strength to strength.

     

    How was your law school experience at NLSIU? Do you recall your first day at the Halls of Residence? Would you like to share any observation/memory from those days?

    I loved my time in law school, largely because of the friends I made, and because that is where my political education happened. My politics and history classes and my internship with Aruna Roy’s Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS) early in my law school career were particularly instructive. These early influences have continued to shape my thinking and career ever since.

    I don’t recall my first day at law school, but I was probably very nervous and convinced they made a mistake in letting me in. Everyone else seemed cleverer. In hindsight, despite many positives, I don’t think law school challenged me enough academically. With some honourable exceptions, most courses required minimal effort, and reading cases or articles was entirely optional. I got a lot out of those five years and wouldn’t change that for anything else, but Indian law school needs to do a lot more to deliver on their primary mission of teaching law to young minds, and to help them think independently about the law.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I was interested in public law and human rights law. My interest in these fields has continued, although I engage with them through a theoretical lens mostly.

     

    How do you think a law student can build up his profile to get through to top-notch universities like Oxford? What should one do differently in college if he wants to pursue higher studies after graduation?

    Most people in law school are very clever. Effort and motivation is the main thing that makes a difference. Most postgrad universities care about academic excellence alone. If you want to join the academy, more important than strategically designing your profile is to have a genuine love for scholarship—if you have that craving, you are likely to do the right things. So it is useful to ask yourself why you want to join the academy, what you think the role and purpose of a university is, and whether and how your personal goals interact with the point of scholarship.

    That said, investing in learning how to write well can help. Indian law schools typically require you to do a lot of writing, but good feedback on improving your style, structure, argument and content is rare. I learnt the importance of clear, simply-communicated scholarship during my time at MKSS rather than at law school. To paraphrase a conversation over a dinner with Aruna Roy some 15 years ago, I remember her telling me that a polity needs good scholarship, but one that is readily intelligible. It was an important lesson.

     

    What was your area of study during your masters at Oxford? What was the academic pressure like and did you find time to engage yourself in other activities?

    I focussed on jurisprudence, human rights, constitutional theory and the penal system for my BCL. My doctoral research was on discrimination law theory, which was eventually published by OUP last year.

     

    How did you take the decision to pursue higher studies? How did you go about choosing the programme and the university?

    Like Edward Said, I believe that the role of an intellectual is to speak truth to power. It is the truth-seeking purpose of scholarship that underscores the importance of academic freedom. As for choosing Oxford, I got a scholarship to go there: that mostly did it.

     

    What was your first reaction on learning that you are being awarded the Rhodes scholarship? Do you recall the first few days and the interview?

    I was very happy, as one would expect. It has been a while (more than a decade), but I think most questions were character-oriented.

     

    How did you go about writing your résumé and most importantly, your Statement of Purpose?

    Not sure what résumé I submitted then, but I have come to realise the importance of short résumé, no more than one and a half sides. Selection panels include busy people, who have little more than a few minutes to make an initial judgment. Be kind to them, give a clean, professional résumé with your most important achievements. For the SOP, get as much feedback as you can on early drafts—from friends, family, professors, anyone whose opinion you care for. Make every sentence mean something. Keep it direct, personal, and honest. Don’t do platitudes.

     

    What would be your advice to our young readers who would like to apply for Rhodes scholarship in future? What all does it take to have a brilliant profile good enough for the Rhodes?

    I don’t think there is a formula. Rhodes scholars are a very diverse bunch, and there are many different ways to succeed. It is also important to remember that while the Rhodes Scholarship is valuable, it is not the only available door. While the role of luck cannot be discounted, if you have worked hard, something worthwhile should turn up. Being at an elite law school is already a position of immense privilege, one that secures opportunities not available to many others.

     

    How was your experience at Oxford? What are the classes and professors like? Are the classes more interactive?

    Oxford undergraduates are taught mainly in tutorials where 2 students meet a tutor for an hour once a week to have a pre-submitted essay dissected in detail. The contact hours are few—an undergraduate student typically gets 12 hours of tutorial in total in an 8 week term. But the intensity of exposure is staggering: there is no place to hide, not for the student, nor for the tutor. Lectures are mostly optional and students choose to go if they like the lecturer. Graduate students are mainly taught in larger seminars of 10-15 students, although they also get a limited number of tutorial exposure. The mainstay of the student experience here is the astonishing amount of self-study expected from students. A typical undergraduate student will normally read about 6-10 cases and 4-8 journal articles every week—graduate students read even more.

     

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    How rigorous was the academic schedule? Would you say a doctorate from Oxford can help make a good grounding for a career in academics?

    Research students don’t have any schedule, it is really important to be self-disciplined and be passionate about your research to keep going. Research can be a lonely and daunting process, and your relationship with your supervisor is the key. I was lucky to have a great supervisor in Nick Bamforth, I also know people who were less fortunate. A good doctorate is increasingly becoming absolutely essential to a career in legal academia. I would recommend prospective research students to make early informal contact with potential supervisors. Doctorates in the UK tend to take a lot less time than they do in the US.

     

    How is your experience of teaching at Oxford? Which subjects do you teach? How are the current batches of students whom you teach?

    I currently teach constitutional law and jurisprudence to undergraduates, discrimination law to graduates, and supervise research in my area of interest. I find that teaching feeds into my research in interesting ways, and with the best students, I frequently learn as I teach.

     

    Do tell us more about the Global Research Fellowship Scheme, 2016 and your experience at NYU.

    I am on sabbatical for the rest of this calendar year. I am currently visiting the law school at the University of Melbourne, and plan to spend a few months later in the year at New York University. It is just a time to get out of Oxford, learn a bit about how things are done at other universities, and get some research time without the pressures of teaching.

     

     

  • Yashasvi Nain, Hans Wilsdorf Scholar at Geneva Academy, on working in International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights

    Yashasvi Nain, Hans Wilsdorf Scholar at Geneva Academy, on working in International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights

    Yashasvi Nain graduated from the Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law, Punjab in 2013 and went on to do an LL.M from the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law & Human Rights. He is also a recipient of the Hans Wilsdorf scholarship and has worked extensively with the UN on various projects and in different capacities. Currently he is working on a UNHCR project to do with statelessness and a few other projects still in their developing stages. In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Choosing Human Rights as an area of specialization
    • His various internships and experiences ranging from working at the Supreme Court to AALCO to the UN
    • His time at the Geneva Academy and how he received the Hans Wilsdorf scholarship
    • Working at the Universal Centre of Human Rights (London), the UNHCR and the UNHRC
    • Advice for readers contemplating commencing a career in the UN

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. Which factors do you believe shaped your decision to pursue law?

    I belong to Jaipur, Rajasthan. I am a lawyer, specializing in the field of public international law.

    Like any other city in India, in Jaipur, one can start early on their chosen field, which is mostly medicine or engineering. So, I started preparing for medico entrance examinations. I agree I was doing that half-heartedly, but then, my father who is an advocate told me about CLAT and related avenues. Out of all of them, I found that Human Rights requires much work to be done by a lawyer. I have always wanted to spread awareness about these basic rights in society and this was the prime reason why I chose law.

    Eventually, I did my B.A., LL. B (Hons.) from Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law, Punjab. That was followed by LL.M from the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law & Human Rights which is a joint center of the Graduate Institute and University of Geneva.

    Currently I am working on a UNHCR project which deals with the issue of statelessness.

     

    You have had some very unconventional internships through your law school years with prestigious organizations. Could you share your experiences there?

    Well, after doing internship with law firms in the first two years of law school, I realized that this is not the kind of work I would like to do in long run. In fact, I enjoyed working in my dad’s office during vacations, more. It is about what you find challenging as a budding lawyer and pursuing that when you intern. That’s why I opted for options other than a law firm.

    I worked as a law trainee to a Supreme Court judge. I got this traineeship though my university. It was the first time I got to learn from the other side of the bar i.e. from the bench. The work was good – mostly attending court proceedings, preparing the briefs for the Hon’ble Judge. It was nice sometimes to have discussions with the Judge and to get to know his point of view.

    I also worked with ICRC and it was a great experience. This was the place where I actually got the first taste of working in an international organization. Especially with a multinational and a multi-cultural team. It was really fun, and I learned a lot, and it influenced my career. I was given independence to do my assigned work and was even appreciated by the supervisor at every good task. The feedback at such organizations is prompt and you learn so much. As an intern, I realized how positive you feel when you get appreciated and acknowledged for your work. It encourages you at the right stage of your life and you get the confidence to take on bigger tasks.

    I also interned with AALCO, which was also an International organization. Here, I got the chance to attend various international seminars and conferences organized by AALCO. It was very useful from the knowledge point of view and I actually got to know various national and international law issues in depth. After that I researched with various scholars, Embassies and International organizations.

    All these internships and work experiences helped me stay comfortable while working with OHCHR at Geneva. Though I was impressed by the work culture there. From juniors, to the most senior person there, all work like a team if they are working on a project. It has a very wide variety of work like declaration drafting, followed by negotiations and being a part of the working groups.

     

    When did you decide to create for yourself a career in Human Rights law?

    As I said, my father was the first person to counsel me about the role law can play in realizing the most basic rights in society.  And during college as well, I was always fascinated by Public International Law and not just Human Rights specifically. My friends Rishab and Arnab shared this view. I remember we asked the authorities so much to start an international law specialization group in my University, because we didn’t get a sufficient number of students to start the specialization.

    During my 4th year of law school I chose to intern with ICRC. I loved the work and that motivated me more, to work in International Humanitarian Law. After that I got chances to work on International Criminal Law, Peacekeeping Operations, International Refugee Law, Internally Displaced Persons, migration in International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights Law, in various capacities.

    My future internships were directed towards specializing in international law thereon. During my final year of law I got an offer letter for an LLM course from Geneva Academy (known for its LLM in IHL & Human Rights) and MIDS (known for its LLM in dispute settlement). It was a tough call but I ended up accepting Geneva Academy’s offer. All my experiences during my internships, whether they were related to work culture or the kind of work, helped me make up my mind to pursue international law.

    At this stage as well as earlier, I do what I like doing the most and am not swayed by any other factors whether economic returns or what others are doing. This is the sole motto that gives me work satisfaction.

     

    Can you tell us about Human Dignity International?

    I give the entire credit to Late Prof. (Dr.) S.R.S. Bedi. Under his guidance RGNUL started a specialization in international law. Unfortunately he passed away some time before my graduation, but in order to continue his vision and idea of human dignity, I started this organization. It mainly focuses on research in the field of international law and on letting students know about the importance of international law. This is done by giving them opportunities through various research projects. I also got good inputs on this one, by many professors and international law experts around the world, who agreed to be part of it in various capacities.

     

    What shaped your decision to create a career in Human Rights? How did you go about the application process?

    (Yashasvi went on to pursue an LL.M in International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights from the prestigious Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law & Human Rights, Geneva.)

    As I mentioned earlier, I interned in various capacities in order to find out where my actual interest lay.  I was not quite attracted to the work in law firms. I wanted a multi- faceted work front which dealt with international law.

    I started working on my application almost a year before graduation. It is very crucial that you write a good application and get recommendations from persons who know you and your work potential. I appreciate my friends who reviewed my SOPs and helped me replicate what I actually felt. Both these factors go into any good application. In general the application process for Geneva Academy is not very technical. There is no application fee. You have to do everything online. You need your transcripts, recommendation letters, SOP and a motivation letter. Another thing which, makes the application process strict is that you need to choose if you want to apply with a scholarship or without a scholarship. If you chose the former then you will not be eligible for the latter. So you really have to make up your mind.

     

    Please enlighten us on how to get a full scholarship like you did from the Hans- Wilsdorf foundation.

    Well that was something I never expected in my life. I got the offer letter on the night of my farewell when I returned to the hostel. When I saw the email, I couldn’t believe it. I asked my friends who were standing next to me to confirm so that I could actually believe it was true. For the Hans-Wilsdorf scholarship, applications are considered in their entirety, including transcripts, extracurricular and voluntary activities, work experience, personal background, letters of recommendation, the personal statement and language skills. Through individual considerations, the Admission Committee seeks not only to identify individual characteristics that are important to academic success in the programme, but also other qualities that promote diversity and excellence in the student body.

    I personally think there are three things which play an important role in getting a scholarship offer. First, academics and your efforts (through internships, publications) to pursue your interest, that is in the area where you are planning to apply for your LL.M. Second, your statement of purpose (SOP) that shows what is the real motivation behind your application. Third, extracurricular activities, that is you have to show that you are not just good in academics but do have an overall personality, you can highlight your leadership qualities, sports achievements, or if you have achieved something while pursuing your hobbies.

     

    What are the ways your year at the Geneva Academy has helped you?

    I would say Geneva Academy as well as the city of Geneva itself helped me a lot in developing professionalism. Let me first tell you about the Academy. The first year at the Academy was extremely stressful though it helped me to understand the basics of various international law subjects not just in theory but also in practice. The Academy prepares you to work in all international organizations, and international courts and tribunals …etc. (for instance, in exams they give you a role of prosecutor or defense lawyer and ask you to give legal arguments). Practical and professionalizing activities in leading international agencies make the course more intense. The faculty at the Academy is the best in their field. It was a good experience to be taught by  professors whose books I used to refer to during moot courts.

    On the other hand Geneva also helped me a lot to improve my interpersonal skills. It’s an amazing city with the UN and international organizations, with easy access to them. Year round there are seminars, talks and conferences organized by various UN Missions or Organizations. This also helped me to stay up to date with contemporary issues.

     

    yashasvi-nain-2

    You are also a Fellow at the Universal Centre of Human Rights (London). Please describe your role there and how the experience is for you.

    It’s more academic but I like it because it helps me to stay connected to the contemporary issues of international law around the world. Fellows are supposed to be reviewing existing literature and prepare a monograph discussing the major problems and possible solutions to the problem.

     

    You worked at the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Geneva. Please describe to us your role there. How did you get placed?

    I would say Geneva Academy played a major role by equipping me with a strong master and by providing a platform to meet people. I was guided by my professor to work with OHCHR. OHCHR gave me so many opportunities to learn and work on various issues ranging from migrant smuggling and health and Human Rights to early warning indicators. It also gave me an opportunity to work as a member of the Secretariat responsible for organizing open-ended intergovernmental working group (OEIGWG) transnational corporations, business and Human Rights. Also members of the Secretariat organized the2nd OEWG on the draft declaration on the rights of peasants. Other tasks ranged from preparing the final note of the panel on the rights of persons with disabilities in the Human Rights Council 28thSession; preparing background papers for various initiatives and mandates of OHCHR and preparing the report to be submitted to the General Assembly on cultural diversity.

     

    It is considered extremely difficult to get into the UN. What are the ways to ensure one stands out and gets noticed?

    Definitely! It is crazy competition out there. Especially for us Indians in the sense that I have observed that Indian students have a great CV but it’s very difficult to break the ice because of the lack of approach.

    I think the easier way is to get close to the system, usually by way of doing an LLM or PhD or by doing an internship with them. Once you get in touch with some employees there, then at least you might get exact advice on where to search for openings and gather requisite skills for those. They are very forthcoming in guiding their internees.

    I would like to highlight that since Geneva or New York are expensive cities and most of the UN internships are unpaid, students are not motivated to apply for those internships. But I am telling you there are many positions which are paid, just need to do little bit of research on what suits you best.

    Another hurdle for us is the language barrier. If I talk about Geneva they prefer French along with the English language. So I suggest learning French or Spanish – you need not be proficient, but it will be a deciding factor in cracking the entry to the UN.

     

    How was your experience with the field research on UNHCR’s project? How is it different than the work at headquarters?

    I was always told by my mentors as well supervisors at the UN that you should never work at headquarters at the beginning stage, it’s always better to get field experience which will actually help in the future and with growth in your career.

    I personally felt the difference during UN conferences and discussions, where opinions or points raised by officers present in the field are so much more practical. So when I got a chance to work on field work, I was quite excited about it.

    It’s a totally different experience, where you go and do ground work and talk to grass root level organizations and with the stateless refugees themselves. It gives you a feeling that you are actually doing something meaningful. It was a great learning experience of how day to day bureaucracy and government works. At the same time it’s challenging also because many a times people don’t want to share their views and information.

     

    What do you have planned in the future?

    International law is a vast field with infinite opportunities but at the same time you can’t plan it. However, research projects are my constant engagement. I have some enterprises that are in the pipeline, on which we have been working for quite a time now. I can only talk about them once they are floated.

     

    How has Human Rights law evolved over the past few decades? Where do you see its significance in the future?

    Human rights were always the most basic rights. But in terms of decadal growth, there has been progress on giving them a legal form and building up mechanisms for better enforcement. We have witnessed in the last few years that the judiciary world over has widened the scope and ambit of Human Rights protection. LGBT rights, right to privacy, limitation to the use of force against civilians, right to land, housing, education etc. are now a reality.

    Unlike old times Human Rights are no more just soft laws. Human rights treaties and customary law are as ‘hard’ as any other law.  Though there is an evolution of challenges at the same time in societies going through transition phases. We see, the right to life being viciously violated in Syria. And even now, the right to food, education, health care and adequate housing are yet to be safeguarded.

     

    What would you say to some of our readers who contemplate making a career in the field of Human Rights?

    I would say that it is an adventure in itself. You know where you start but you don’t know where you will end. You meet a lot of interesting people, and get opportunities to travel around the world. But you need to have a deep conviction that what you are doing is the right thing. On my journey till now I have met some amazing people who work for humanity and are passionate about their work.

    The downside is, you might not get a high salary in the beginning (you might end up doing an unpaid internship while your mates are getting paid internships in law firms. I am sure that will demotivate you at times!!) You also might get short missions, so if you want to settle down in a place you like, it is a bit difficult.

    I would say just write to people who are in the field. Write a random email – you have nothing to lose. Ask them for guidance. Clear your doubts and march forward.  I believe in the inspiring words of one of my mentors who is in the foreign services – “Just dream, the rest will come at its own pace; you are a movie observer and your job is to enjoy the show”.

  • Rajesh Singh, Legal Advisor, on pursuing a career as a Managing Partner of R&S Associates

    Rajesh Singh, Legal Advisor, on pursuing a career as a Managing Partner of R&S Associates

    Rajesh has more than 19 years of versatile and enriching international experience advising corporate clients, CEOs, management members, boards, and business heads. He has worked in the role of General Counsel (South Asia) at 3i Infotech, Associate General Counsel at Capgemini. He has been legal adviser at senior levels in various MNCs, SMEs, and SSIs. He has been instrumental and trusted adviser in various assignments dealing with M&As, NeGP(PPP), international arbitration, dispute resolutions, Private Equity, M&A integrations issues, Labour unrest and unions matters, various matters at Ministry/EOW/Custom/DRI/ Authority, Company formation and registration (Singapore, ME & other Asian countries), data protection/privacy laws, Antitrust/Competition laws, litigations and advisory services for his organization in association with Amarchand&Mangaldas, DLA Piper, DH Law, JayeshAshar, Somandy and Associates,  Little and Company and so on.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His decision to pursue law.
    • His views on career choices.
    • His experience as a corporate lawyer.
    • His advice to go for higher studies.

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law students, law aspirants or professionals in the legal arena?

    For my fraternity, I am one of their fellowship members consistently learning to strike a differentiator when had to compete with each of you at any stage of my life. When it comes to consolidating my energy, effort, and experience, I would like to be called as an astute corporate lawyer with 2 decades of exposure to fortunate opportunities of some international experience. My consolidation of knowledge primarily came from legal-advisory exposures on various corporate and legal activities that governed various businesses, industry, and geography, for the sake of brevity coined as “LexAdvisory”. Today, individually gaining core expertise in all aspects of LexAdvisory is practically not possible for an individual, so it is important to have a team of experts to stand behind an individual under the umbrella of an international advisory firm, like mine RSAA GLocalLexAdvisory Group….remember this is just a beginning.

    You are a B.Com graduate from the University of Mumbai. How did you decide to pursue LL.B.?

    To be frank, in those days of my initial career, my intention was to be part of management hence had immediately done Diploma in Business Management from Indian Merchant Chambers. I had no path to have a career in law. My work, assignments, and some personal and organizational challenge compelled me to do law, further to add, my attitude to have control over the assignment. I found, major snag was legal issues and challenges surrounding the assignment, so completed my law with my employment…

    How well did your experience in Mumbai prepare you for a life of academic prestige and professional success?

    Now, at this stage, after meeting law aspirants from various parts of globe, including the rural, remote and less fluent English speaking areas, I believe being in Mumbai or any similar city will always be to your advantage as the exposure to real-life incidents, ready infra, and occasions of deliberations always going to be a rich experience. Major change in me happened when I started working for global MNCs, because the perspective of life, changes when you enter into a multi-cultural environment. It grooms you differently, by influencing your thoughts, communication, stature, and appearance. It gives a different outlook to yourself and imbibes things to see the world through glass of multi-cultural professional approach, knowledge composition, and personal attitude towards clients (including internal clients) and also “Altitude”, I coined a new personal feature because I felt a point of difference in opinion of astute lawyers of different country not due to legal knowledge but the point of reference from where they see the applicability and feasibility, due to our respective knowledge-peak heights achieved in our respective legal jurisdiction or cultural and environmental sphere each of us belong to; or society that we belong that either regarded smaller issues in one country as high while another country discarded it low, e.g., Data protection laws are different from different countries and seriousness varies accordingly.

    What were the influences on your decision to pursue MBA in Human Resources? Why didn’t you opt for MBA after graduation?

    I was holding all portfolios jointly in a corporate support function and to pursue  highest qualification in Human Resource would help me count as qualified all round. During those days, I was dealing with massive industrial and personnel issues which were unnecessarily chewing away my time. I felt I lacked in understanding issues of management and personnel and at many times could not authoritatively provide solutions to blue-coloured and white-coloured differences. My intention was to stand as an adviser to the management board to tackle all corporate and legal issues; personnel issues were bothering me. I could not stand differentiator in my personal view while convincing management with a workaround was not making me happy.

    What are your views on career choices other than mainstream corporate or litigation streams such as teaching, etc.?

    Today, the corporates have started eying on lawyers to move in the business stream and contribute to business growth and expansion due to their legal analysis, meticulous practice, and advisory skills, taking risk stands minimized at the decision level itself far away to reach this stage but the world is progressing towards the same. Alternately, every individual should get involved in other streams of a career like teaching, etc., may be after gathering some work experience at corporate, law firms and independent practice because that will help relating knowledge with reality and make teaching more attractive and attentive for law students. The legal field itself is so broad that there is no need to move outside the legal stream.

    You have been a corporate lawyer for most of your career. What prompted you to take up corporate law? Share with us any experience which helped you to shape your career choices.

    In my view, corporate lawyer enjoys the power to advise business heads and largely is in a position to influence a decision of management wherever legal and compliance issues are a concern. Surprisingly, amateur corporate counsel also gets an opportunity to advise business heads in most of the corporate structure due to our ability to understand the law better than them and also professional independence is given in our day to day activity. It is your personal inquests and quests that helps you to choose the legal area that you would like to specialize in. The majority of corporate work largely deals with contract drafting and managing litigation in most of the organizations. Few organizations do have an opportunity to go into IPR, M&A, IPO, Financial Arrangements, etc. I have been fortunate to get all of these opportunities at strategic and compliance level, making my knowledge-base versatile, penetrative and probing.

    What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    In addition to above, as managing partner of international law firm, typical work day goes on strategic and management decision to structure the organization, improve the quality of service, monitor the vision and mission, inculcate good practices, motivate the team to support clients and give spontaneous advice to management or CEOs or Managing Directors of the organizations identified as a core clients. In personal observation supervise crucial and critical litigation to get appropriate knowledge and experience to tackle proceedings legally and administratively.

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a Partner at one of the most successful law firms in the country? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    Obviously, stress is part of your life be as an associate or as a partner because success of a law firm depends on how your conduct is with your client?; what knowledge and experience that you can bring to the pleadings, drafting and arguments? Besides, the challenge of face value in the court, unheard urgencies, few seconds to decide your interim success or failure may discourage your client to count on you even if you have the best army to succeed in a long run. All set and done, if you love your work, you can enjoy the challenges and heal your frustration through your internal mingling and by a sip of tea/coffee or by breathing out the failure and breath in the next moment to move towards your next achievement. Many times, time does not permit you to enjoy your success or cry on your failure as the clock of cyclic success and failure is so much inconsistent that you cannot carry one emotion for long.  Work-life balance is not a myth; you can achieve if you can start your day early and follow a disciplined method to retrieve your information and knowledge.

    What kind of effort should a young associate put into work to get it appreciated? What distinguishes an associate from a partner when it comes to work?

    There is no limit or difference in the effort; your contribution decides your fate and success as an associate. More the partner relies on your work and effort; the less the partner will supervise the associate work. Almost everything is expected to be done by the Associate under guidance and supervision of Sr. Associates, Partner or Sr. Partner. Largely, the scope is drafting, analyzing facts, and research the relevance to withstand weakness and strengthen merits of your matter.

    How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles in a corporate law firm?

    Knowing the business is very advantageous at any stage of your career, because as a corporate lawyer, the more you know your business higher is the chance of bringing an appropriate solutions or advice. The business heads or management appreciates such corporate lawyer who can bridge law and business on a platter in such a way that both corporate lawyers and business can understand their perceptions and perspective. Besides business skills, the corporate lawyer should also work towards improving its Interpersonal skills, simplified and crisp communication skills. Team Spirit plays a vital role in large. And complex assignments as a collaboration of work is crucial to complete the larger picture as expected by the management within an expected timelines and quality.

    When you hire lawyers under you, what specific skills and profile do you look for?

    Already covered above, to broadly mention, drafting, knowledge seeker, independent in thoughts, out of box thinker, ready to work with right attitude, have excellent and simplified method of communications, ability to demonstrate and express his thoughts in clean and clear way, negotiation skills, etc

    If I want to be a legal advisor how would I go?

    Every aspirant should identify and understand legal and statutory compliance of the industry that you are focussing on. Gather relevant knowledge, team of business and legal experts working on challenges of the Industry, and form part of a forum that can either influence industry legislation or influence legislators by your thoughts, suggestions, recommendation, and actions. Once you have initiated in the above manner, invest your time to peruse legislation affecting such industry and observe live court proceedings in this regard. Peruse case laws and FAQs available on the websites of court and authority (you can refer various other means to get case research materials), to understand regular challenges faced and dealt by that Industry. This kind of development will help you to mature your understanding in respect of business nuances, court’s perspective (Ratio decidendi of the decision taken by various courts or counter arguments placed by other pleaders to understand the strength of your pleadings) and market dynamics. Focus one industry at a time. Target another similar industry, which is logically a business extension of the industry you focused on e.g. ITeS to IT, BPO to LPO, IT to Software Technology then Mobile Technology. Similarly, the logical expansion, in the process of knowledge gathering, is to experience litigation through Business Contracts by way of handling disputes under Alternate Dispute Resolution (eg Arbitration or mediation forming part of Contract; you can further deep dive in this area covering domestic and international arena of every country your organization operates its business); further to add, Contracts, generally, branches out to various legislation or points out to foreign legislation by way of its terms and conditions, hence, review of such clauses should be analysed in the light of such legislation to assess the risk and recommend mitigation plan or compliances there under.

    What would be your advice to students who wish to go for higher studies?

    Industry or legal area focussed diplomas or courses will help recruiter acknowledge your intent to practice in particular industry and legal areas. In India, degree in law, master degree in business administration (if you intend to practice as an in-house corporate lawyer) or master degree in law for practice in court; and any other diploma or courses will always be an added advantage. The student should work during their studies to ensure that business and practical sense is developed while studying and most of the reading will settle in your mind as your wisdom or knowledge.

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Budding Lawyers and Law Students should be sincere, hardworking, knowledge seeker, opportunist, aggressive in work and humble in approach and communication; ethical and professional in conduct and approach, good listener, preach what you practice, and finally should have ability to convey your thoughts. Never believe that what you lost after your sincere attempts are the last opportunity for your life.

     

  • Ankur Mishra, Associate Attorney, on how to draft patent specifications for Indian, Malaysian and Canadian Patent Office

    Ankur Mishra, Associate Attorney, on how to draft patent specifications for Indian, Malaysian and Canadian Patent Office

    Ankur Mishra graduated from KIIT University, Bhubaneshwar in 2013. At present, he is an Associate Attorney at KAnalysis Legal, New Delhi.

     

    He has an experience in drafting patent specifications for Indian, Malaysian and Canadian Patent Office. He drafts responses to objections in patent applications and conducts patent prior art search and trademark search. He also prepares Patent application, Trademark application, Copyright and Design registration applications.

     

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • The importance of Science background for patent drafting and prosecution.
    • The importance of choosing honors in IP during LL.B. course.
    • The strategy before drafting and filing a patent application to avoid potential infringement.
    • Obtaining patent protection in foreign countries.

     

    Most of our readers are young lawyers and law students. How will you introduce yourself to them?

     

    Current Association: Associate Attorney at KAnalysis Legal, New Delhi. I graduated in B.Sc. LL.B (Hons. in IP) from Kalinga Institute of Industrial Technology (KIIT) University, Bhubaneswar in 2013. It is very important for a law student to decide the interested area of law in which they feel interested and comfortable to pursue their career. Since I opted for B.Sc.LL.B with biotech as a major subject in B.Sc., interest for Patents and general I.P developed in me. During the second year of the course, the students should focus on the interested area of law which they decide for their career. I decided to honors in Intellectual Property Law after the second year during my LL.B course. I interned at several I.P Law firms in their patents and trademark department which provided me the opportunity to learn the practical aspects of the I.P Law and then I was able to appreciate the theoretical knowledge with practical skills required for patent drafting and strategy for I.P rights. After completion of my LL.B course, I have been associated with I.P law firm in New Delhi and working in the areas of Patents, Design, and Trademarks law since 2013.

     

    Why is Science background necessary for patent drafting and prosecution?

     

    Science background is important for the drafting of a patent application and prosecution because generally the patent applications comprise of scientific terms. The drafter should have a sound knowledge of the scientific terms in order to draft an excellent patent application and provide the best disclosure without any confusion in the minds of the examiner examining the application. If the drafter understands the scientific terms, then he/she is able to appreciate the invention much better throughout the specification. Science background helps you appreciate the different compositions, parts, components or methods of the inventions. An invention may comprise of various scientific knowledge, methods or components which the inventor has disclosed to you along with the invention, but they all cannot be claimed, having a science background here will help you to highlight the portions of the inventions to be claimed. Science background helps you in preparing your submissions before the examiner during prosecution of the patent application. It helps you differentiate your invention from the other already existing prior arts.

     

    What is the importance of choosing honors in IP during LL.B. course?

     

    IP is an emerging field; IP plays an important role in today’s competitive world. A company with strong IP rights can flourish with a tremendous speed in the market. Companies, industries, and commercial organizations are becoming more diligent about protecting their IP rights and hence there is, and there will be demand for IP professionals in the legal field too. Choosing for honors in IP will provide students gain much deeper knowledge than the general IP course because in IP honors almost all the areas of IP are taught elaborately which will help during practical implementation. Since IP law is an emerging area in the market, those who are opting for IP honors will always be preferred in the IP industry.

     

    What is the importance of internships at IP Law firms?

     

    Internships in IP law firms provide the students to learn the practical aspects of IP Law. Internships provide the basic practical knowledge and skills required for starting a career in IP Law. Internships in IP law firms provide the student to learn the rules and regulations to draft and prosecute the IP applications. There are several forms which need to be filled and filed along with the IP applications in compliance with various Rules; internships provide exposure to those Rules and forms.

     

    What should be the strategy for drafting and filing a patent application to avoid potential infringement?

     

    The attorney should run extensive prior art search in order to determine the novelty of the invention. Sometimes it happens that the invention thought to be a novel by the inventor is available in the prior arts. If the invention is similar to already patented inventions, then it will result in infringement of the already existing patent. Analyzing the prior arts prevents the applicant from the huge loss of money and time if the invention is not novel because litigation and attorney fee may cause a huge expenditure to the applicant in case of infringement. So it is advisable that the applicant must always ask the attorney to do a detailed prior art search and provide an analysis of the similarities and differences between their invention and the prior arts. The applicant must analyze the Prior Art Report provided by the attorney and accordingly decide the future course of action.

     

    When should I begin investigating the patentability of my idea?

     

    The moment the inventor develops the idea for invention he\ she should immediately start searching for the relevant prior arts and determine the novelty of their invention. Delay in investigating the patentability may result in losing time and money to the inventor.

     

    What is the first step to obtaining a patent?

     

    The first step to obtaining a patent is to file a provisional patent application as soon as possible and then work on the invention thoroughly to file a complete specification within 12 months from the date of filing the provisional application.

     

    How long does it take to get a patent?

     

    It takes around three to four years in India and US to obtain a patent.

     

    Someone else is making or selling my patented device. What should I do?

     

    There are few steps required to be taken before determining the actual infringement by another party. First, you should compare your patent with that of the infringer’s products. It sometimes happens that the infringing product or method might seem to be the same as the patented one but they might very well different in the technical aspects. Secondly, the patentee should compare his/ her claims with infringing products or methods; then the patentee has options to proceed legally against the infringer. The patentee can send a ‘cease and desist notice’ to the infringer demanding immediate withdrawal from manufacturing and selling the products. The patentee may then offer the infringer to enter into patent licensing agreement. If the infringer agrees to enter into a licensing agreement, then it will benefit the patentee regarding royalty. If the infringer does not comply with the cease and desist notice then, in that case, the patentee has the right to file in an infringement suit against the infringer and claim monetary damages as well as an injunction.

     

    I would like to obtain patent protection in foreign countries. How should I proceed?

     

    For obtaining patent protection in foreign countries, the inventor should file foreign application within 12 months from filing the initial patent application which the applicant wants to take as a priority. The inventor can also file a single patent application under the Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT Application) and take it as priority application to file a patent in signatory countries. The applicant after filing PCT application should file a national application in signatory countries within 30 months from the date of PCT application (31 months in a case of European Patent Office). The inventor can also directly file a foreign application with the respective Patent Office of any country where he/ she desires to obtain patent protection.

     

    What is the proper way to use a trademark?

     

    Before adopting any mark as a trademark for any product or services the applicant should first determine the availability of the mark to be used as a trademark. The applicant should request the attorney to conduct a search for the similar trademarks already applied, registered or is already being used by another party. If the mark is not being used, applied or registered by anyone then in that case the applicant should immediately file the trademark application. The applicant should use the applied mark extensively and if possible, should show the prior use of minimum three years before filing the trademark application. However, the applicant can also file a trademark application comprising any mark, logo or device which is proposed to be used by the applicant in future.

     

    Who can register a trademark?

     

    Any person including organization, associations or company who has been using the mark or intent to use the mark in future may apply for trademark registration.

     

    What are the steps to trademark registration?

     

    Steps to trademark registration are:

    (1)  Filing of a trademark application with a prescribed fee of Rs.4000.

    (2)  Issuance of an application number by the registry.

    (3)  Examination of the application.

    (4)  Issuance of an examination report comprising objections of the registry.

    (5)  Filing written response to the objections raised by the registry.

    (6)  Appearing in hearing. The applicant may also file an affidavit of use with supporting documents during the hearing.

    (7)   If the application is accepted, the registry will issue Letter of Acceptance and publish the mark in official trademark journal. The trademark application is open for the opposition after publication; the opposition should be filed within four months from the publication date. If there is no opposition, then the registry will issue the registration certificate.

     

    What guarantee is there that an application won’t be rejected?

     

    There is no such guarantee. There are several grounds prescribed under the Trademarks Act for refusal and removal of a trademark. If the trademark application abides by all the conditions and rules required for registration then, in that case, there are 100% chances of registration.

     

    What should be your advice to our readers?

     

    Intellectual Property Law is an emerging area as a career for law students. One who wishes to pursue IP as a career must be focused and shall study specialized course in IP. If a student possesses science background, then it becomes a bit easy for him/ her to draft and prosecute patent applications. Trademarks, Designs, and Copyrights are other IP areas which do not require much technical background, knowledge of general IP laws will help. Students should pursue internships in IP law firms to get practical knowledge about IP applications and their prosecutions.

    Individuals and corporates should be very diligent about their IP rights and should take all the measures to protect them because in today’s world ‘everything is IP and IP is everything’.

     

  • Shweta Luthra, An independent Legal Consultant, on switching from Corporate Law to Criminal Law

    Shweta Luthra, An independent Legal Consultant, on switching from Corporate Law to Criminal Law

    Shweta Luthra graduated from National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata in 2007. Her research, which started in 2011 and is still ongoing, is focused on the socio-legal aspects of fitness to plead and stand trial in English and Indian Courts. It involves a comparative analysis of the trial procedures for defendants who are charged with criminal offences, but are unable to plead or participate in their trial, as a result of mental disabilities.

    She currently acts as the external member on fifteen ICCs and as a legal consultant to many other organisations. She has worked with IISc (Indian Institute of Science), KEONICS, Orange County Hotels and Resorts, Skyway International Tours and Travels, CMCA (Children’s Movement for Civic Awareness), the Nature Conservation Foundation and Quikr. She also provides consulting services to a global technology support company with over 5000 employees in India alone, a global MNC providing customer engagement software and services, and a leading Life Science and High Tech company.

    In this interview she talks to us about:

    • Her areas of interest and developing expertise and knowledge in these fields.
    • Biggest hurdles faced in her career.
    • Her experience at Amarchand & Mangaldas.
    • Her experience as a trainer, legal consultant and external member to ICCs on sexual harassment matters.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a legal professional interested in aspects related to human rights, especially those of persons with mental illnesses and victims of sexual harassment, since their issues have not received as much attention (until quite recently) as other issues.
    An Alumni of NUJS, Kolkata (2007 batch), I worked with AMSS Bangalore for two years before deciding to follow my true interests and joined the University of Oxford in 2009 to read for the MSc in Criminology and Criminal Justice (Research Methods).After completing my MSc, I started my Ph.D. at the School of Law, the University of Leicester on a part-time basis, which I am still pursuing.
    Since 2013, I have taught Principles of Criminal Law at Christ Law School, Bangalore as guest faculty and now work with an NGO, SASHA (Support Against Sexual Harassment), where I provide legal consultancy on matters relating to sexual harassment at the workplace.

     

    What inclined you towards legal education?

    As a child, I really enjoyed puzzles and mysteries. As I grew older, this interest moved towards brain teasers, and then towards logical reasoning and analysis. While I would have preferred to become a detective, that did not seem to be a very stable career option! I was also excellent at arguing (not just debating) and seriously considered becoming a criminal lawyer. When I got accepted at NUJS, studying law seemed like an excellent career prospect.

     

    What were your areas of interest while you were in law school? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    What I found most interesting at law school, was criminal law. What I did not realise then, was that my interest lay more towards the psychological aspects of crime and the socio-legal aspects of criminal law, rather than substantive or procedural law – why certain acts are considered to be criminal; why the same acts and behaviours that are punishable offences in some countries, are not criminalised in others? Most importantly, why, despite knowing that an act would result in punishment, people still continue to commit crimes?

    I was not at all sure where I would go with these interests. When you think of criminal law, you immediately think “litigation”, as did I. To that end a majority of my internships were with litigating lawyers – at all courts (trial to Supreme Court), and while I enjoyed trial court litigation most, I was not convinced enough to make a career out of it.

    By 3rd year, my interest took me towards criminology (which I chose as an elective), and during my summer vacation, I decided to conduct some research on the treatment of mentally disordered offenders. For this, I interviewed nearly 30 mentally ill persons who were either under trial or convicted and serving time at the Bangalore Central Prison. I spoke to mental health professionals and prison psychiatrists about the treatment received by such prisoners and realised what an abominable state they were in. It was this project that ultimately defined my career. My M.Sc dissertation and Ph.D. thesis, both are related to mentally disordered offenders and how law and society, both need to change to improve their situation.

     

    What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    Despite wanting to work in the specific area of criminal law relating to the mentally ill, I had no idea where to start, and with the pressure of placements, I applied for a job in corporate law, just like everyone else. My only corporate law internship had been with Amarchand Bangalore (in my 4th year), and when they offered me a PPO, I accepted it. It’s hard to refuse such an offer, especially against peer pressure as well as family pressure. Most families do not want their daughters running around prisons to speak to convicts suffering from Psychosis.

    While I adjusted to the job at Amarchand, I never really felt excited by it.A big challenge for me was the long hours required of a capital markets lawyer. Markets were booming at the time that I joined, and there was more work than we could comfortably manage. It’s easy to burn out quickly when you do not see yourself making a career out of that job. But, the biggest hurdle for me was to convince my family that I wanted to leave a coveted high paying job in order to enter into completely unknown territory, with no clear career prospects.

     

    How was the job interview? Do you remember any of the questions asked to you? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    A lot of the questions asked during these interviews are about your personal opinions and aspirations. They want to know about the sort of person you are and whether you would fit into that particular law firm culture. They want to know where you see yourself in 5 or 10 years. What could you bring to that law firm, that is unique? Sometimes, they also ask you for your opinions on current legal affairs.
    While many applicants are quite scared to answer these questions because they want to sound impressive, the thing to remember is that there is no right or wrong answer. Rather than expecting a perfect answer, I believe that recruiters want to know if you have the ability to self-introspect and whether you have any future goals or not. Whether your aspirations are limited to getting the highest paying job at a huge law firm, or if you have actually thought of a long term plan. They also want to know if your knowledge is limited to what you have been taught in the classroom, or are up to date with and can critically discuss what is happening in the world.

     

    Describe your experience at Amarchand & Mangaldas. Why did you shift from Corporate Law to Criminal law and research?

    I was assigned to the capital markets team along with a majority of the new recruits. That is something that I was clueless about, never having worked in the area. But, considering the IPO boom at that time, they needed all hands on deck. I learned quite a lot during my two years there, but I missed my prison research and finally decided to study further, but not law – I wanted to study criminology and criminal justice. When I got accepted at Oxford, there was no looking back.

     

    What can help a student get through the application process at the  University of Oxford? How different was the work environment at that University?

    Unlike many high ranking global universities, Oxford does not put as much weight on your previous academic record, as it does to your potential.

    To gauge this, in addition to the statement of purpose, which is the most important part of your application, you are also required to submit two essays on subjects of your choice (not necessarily related to the course you are applying for), through which they analyse your ability to write, research and think critically. The latter is essential – Oxford looks for uniqueness rather than the ability to score high marks in exams. They would like to know that their students are interested in long term achievements rather than just a degree.
    I had an average GPA and was ranked in the middle of my class, but they took me anyway. I believe what they found interesting, was my research and ideas on the law related to Mentally Disordered Offenders.
    They also ask for three references, instead of the usual two – one of which needs to be non-academic.

     

    Please share a bit about your Ph.D. research experience with medical and legal professionals in India.

    My Ph.D. relates to the socio-legal aspects of fitness to stand trial for persons with mental disorders. I am looking at trial procedures followed in India and England if the accused is suffering from a mental disorder that prevents him from participating in his defence or from instructing his lawyers.

    During my research, I realised that legal professionals in India know very little about this area of law, and many steers clear of it. There are cases of mentally disordered offenders being imprisoned as under-trial prisoners for decades!A factor that further intensifies the implementation of this law is the stigma attached to mental illness, which prevents many from admitting that they are unwell, and therefore not fit to undergo a normal trial.

    On the flip side, until quite recently, this law could be misused very easily – there have been many cases where families who wanted to rid themselves of the responsibility of a mentally ill relative, accused them of criminal offences like rape or sexual harassment and then let them stay in jail until a proper trial, indefinitely. When India ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, many changes were brought into the Indian legal system. More than sixty Indian legislations that related to disabled persons (including persons with mental disabilities) are currently being reviewed and amended in order to harmonize them with this convention. That is currently the main focus of my research.

    When I started my research and conducted pilot interviews with legal and medical professionals, I realised that a major issue in India was not lacuna in the law, but more as a result of our legal culture and society. Besides the lack of awareness of these legal provisions, there are also contradictions between the medical and legal definitions of concepts like insanity and disability, in addition to how such persons should be treated. My Ph.D. may not be able to resolve these issues, but I aim to bring those issues to light, that have previously been ignored or disregarded.
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    How did you become a legal consultant? What are the skills one must acquire to become a legal consultant?

    SASHA actually happened quite unexpectedly. In 2014, I was approached by Kanti Joshi, an old family friend who convened SASHA, as she was looking for lawyers to join her.Since the notification of the Sexual Harassment of Women at Workplace (Prevention, Prohibition and Redressal) Act in December 2013, she had suddenly seen an upsurge in her work as there was an immediate requirement of experts in this field. I attended a few of her sessions, read about the requirements under the law and realised that very few lawyers had this expertise.

    I was instantly drawn to this issue because in, addition to its relation to human rights and criminal law, it is another issue that has been ignored for too long.I initially started conducting awareness and training sessions on sexual harassment, and as I gained experience, I started analysing the law and became an external member of Internal Complaints Committees and also started providing legal consultation on this subject to other companies, who already had external members, but required expert knowledge of how to handle certain complicated cases.

    As such, there is no specific skill set required to become a legal consultant. In fact, lawyers working at law firms are legal consultants. Providing consultation is simply a practice, where instead of providing litigation services, the lawyer provides legal advice to individuals or businesses. However, most legal consultants have expertise in particular subjects. A big advantage for me has been the fact that as an independent legal consultant, I can keep my own work timings, and usually work out of my home office. I am very family oriented. I have a four-year-old son, with whom I get to spend a good amount of time, despite having a successful career. Also, as a result of this flexibility, I am able to dedicate a fair amount of time towards my Ph.D. research.

     

    Share your work experience as a trainer, legal consultant and an external member to ICCs on sexual harassment matters.

    The Sexual Harassment Act requires every organisation with more than 10 employees to have an Internal Complaints Committee to deal with cases of Sexual Harassment.For this, they need training on the provisions of the law as well as an external member who is either a legal professional or has expertise on this subject. The law also requires these organisations to conduct awareness sessions for the prevention of sexual harassment in the workplace.

    At SASHA, we provide all these services. Presently, I am an external member on the ICCs of 17 companies, where I assist them in resolving sexual harassment complaints. I also conduct training and awareness sessions for various organisations including hospitals, educational institutions, BPOs, IT companies, companies in the manufacturing, travel and tourism sectors, as well as various government departments and corporations.

    Despite our efforts, and efforts of other similar organisations, there is still some resistance to comply with this law. Many organisations are hesitant to sensitise their employees towards sexual harassment law, as they are worried that the provisions of this law will be misused. Their negative opinions towards this law include the fact that this legislation is just a political gimmick and that creating this law has resulted in giving power to women employees to retaliate against their superiors when unhappy with their professional progress. While not unfounded, these fears are a result of a lack of knowledge of the new law.

    Sexual harassment is a universal problem, unrestricted by financial or social status or the type of organisation one works for. No employer can be blamed for the behaviour indulged in by their employees, but closing their eyes to it is also not feasible. Many victims do not come forward with their grievances as they are unsure of what acts and behaviours amount to sexual harassment, and are unaware of what to do if faced with them. Many also do not have enough faith in their employer to deal with a complaint in a sensitive and supportive manner.

    It is my aim to spread as much awareness as possible, as I believe that to be the most effective way to bring about the desired impact.

     

    What would be your message to our readers?

    Don’t concentrate only on the subjects that are taught in law school. Learning about procedural and substantive laws is important, but what is more important, is how you practically apply that knowledge in the real world. I think internships are the best way to gather this knowledge. An internship can help you to understand the realities of the legal profession. You may learn Contract law and Company law at school, but you do not learn how to draft a contract or negotiate it.
    Also, you may not realise that you enjoy a specific field of law unless you have worked in it, so you should try your hand at internships in a variety of fields. In addition to learning the practice of law, internships are a great forum to learn from the experiences of professionals working in that field.
    Most importantly, keep an open mind. Litigation and Corporate Law are not the only options for legal professionals.

  • Abhishek Sinha, Associate Partner at Khaitan & Co., on how to gain expertise in Corporate Law

    Abhishek Sinha, Associate Partner at Khaitan & Co., on how to gain expertise in Corporate Law

    Abhishek Sinha is a dual qualified (England & Wales and India) corporate lawyer with a post-qualification experience of more than ten years. Prior to joining Khaitan, he was working as a ‘Partner’ at Shardul Amarchand, Mumbai. He started his career at a leading law firm in Mumbai (DSK Legal) and later joined the Mumbai office of AZB & Partners. In the year 2012, he was seconded to Morrison & Foerster, Tokyo as an ‘International Visiting Attorney’.    

    Abhishek has been leading transactions involving corporate and commercial laws. Abhishek has wide-ranging experience in advising on private equity matters, as well as structures requiring India entry strategies. He has been involved in various acquisition matters (both domestic and cross-border), contract negotiations, and has regularly advised his clients on investment strategies, joint ventures, strategic alliances, regulatory compliances, exit options and general corporate matters.

    To satisfy his academic inclination, in addition to his legal practice, Abhishek has been a visiting lecturer at ILS Law College (Pune), KC Law College (Mumbai) and Government Law College (Mumbai). He has also handled various academic assignments at several law colleges, including HR College (Mumbai) and the National University of Advanced Legal Studies (Cochin). He has on numerous occasions spoken at several seminars and conferences, including the Institute of Company Secretaries of India and the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies, Pune on issues pertaining to foreign direct investments, due diligence, companies act, the law relating to contracts and related subjects.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Life, law and the choices he made while pursuing it.
    • The work entailed in his position, and the field of corporate law dealt with.
    • The importance of grades at the law school.
    • Importance of socializing in career progression.

    Tell us something about yourself. Where did you grow up and attend school?

     

    Hi! This is the much-dreaded classic question: “Tell me about yourself”! It reminds me of a quote from ‘The Office’ (I think season 5): “Sometimes I’ll start a sentence, and I don’t even know where it’s going. I just hope I find it along the way.”

    I’m a dual qualified (England & Wales and India) corporate lawyer with a post-qualification experience of more than ten years. I graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2006 with dual bachelor degrees. Presently, I am working in the Mumbai office of Khaitan & Co, as an associate partner, primarily focusing on private equity transactions. Prior to re-joining Khaitan, last year, I was a corporate partner at Shardul Amarchand, Mumbai. For me, my first office will always remain special, and it must find a mention in this “know me” segment. I started my career at a leading law firm in Mumbai (DSK Legal) and later joined the Mumbai office of AZB & Partners. After a stint of approximately two and a half years at AZB, I joined Khaitan. I have also spent a fair amount of time at the Tokyo office of Morrison & Foerster as an ‘International Visiting Attorney’.

    I grew up in a small town, Ranchi (yes, the same place as Dhoni!) and completed my schooling from DAV Shyamli (yes, the same place as Dhoni!!). Just for my SoBo friends, Ranchi is the capital of Jharkhand (and yes you can google for Jharkhand).

    What brought you into studying law as your profession?

     

    Law, happened to me, just by chance and not the choice. I was a science student and didn’t score well in the entrance test to grab an MBBS seat. My rank in the CBSE PMT was just enough to get me through BDS, and I never wanted to spend my entire life looking inside someone’s mouth. My dad wanted me to join the BDS, and I was just looking for a way out. India Today magazine came to my rescue; ILS was ranked 2nd in the law colleges ranking that year, and I applied because that was the only college where the admission was based on class 12th marks. Mine was the last name in the 1st merit list. But the real motivation to pursue my law degree seriously happened in the 3rd year of my college. The only good thing about myself (I am just being modest, there are a lot of good things about me), is that once I take things seriously, I take it seriously. I worked hard and topped the Pune University in my 3rd and 4th year of college (that’s a different thing that both the years, after re-evaluation results, I was ranked 2nd). Haha!

    After joining the profession, I had the benefit of having some amazing mentors, and I think my ‘student mode’ will continue for a long time as there’s a lot to learn and I have just started.

    What were the activities you were a part of?

     

    I was a very active student in college. Name the ‘cell’ or the ‘committee’, and I was there in it. Apart from all the college activities, I was associated with several NGOs and experimental leadership training groups. I used to enroll for every other diploma/certificate course, thinking it may help me in getting a job. Today, the students have a lot of avenues to get information and then decide what is right for them. For me, it has always been the harder way of “hit and trial method”, but I am not complaining at all.

    Apart from the above, I used to teach in a school in Pune over the weekends and go for my long mountaineering trips by cutting down on my internship period by 10 days (well every internship), sell newspaper subscriptions and insurance products (yes I was an insurance agent from 2nd year to 5th year of college and surrendered my license, right after getting placed).

    If today, I am asked to give a list of top 3 things which is essential apart from attending regular classes, the list will look like this: (i) participating in moot courts, (ii) self-reading and writing articles or research papers; and (iii) internships.

    Tell us about the nature of work you are entrusted with and what’s a typical day like?

     

    Apart from merely leading transactions, involving corporate and commercial laws, I advise on private equity matters, as well as structures requiring India entry strategies. Just to give a quick flavor, my work profile includes advising on various acquisition matters (both domestic and cross-border), contract negotiations, financial investment strategies, joint ventures, strategic alliances, exit options and general corporate matters.

    A typical day at work is the same as any corporate lawyer- attending to client meetings and conference calls; internal meetings, reviewing the documents, responding to emails, etc. However, I make sure that I take out the “me time” for reading the legal updates, chatting with seniors and taking my coffee (and stamina-sticks) breaks.

    To satisfy my academic inclination, I teach at ILS Law College, KC Law College and Government Law College, Securities Law Course, the Institute of Company Secretaries of India (seminars) on issues pertaining to foreign direct investments, due diligence; companies act, the law relating to contracts and related subjects.

    How do you say one can gain expertise in corporate law? What does it take to be a good corporate lawyer?

     

    There’s no strategy or science behind becoming an expert in any area. If you like the subject, half the work is already done.

    I will digress a little bit, but it’s important. Most of the interviews, students are able to answer (to perfection), the questions, which are out of their regular curriculum (like questions on FDI Policy, FEMA). However, a simple question on contract act, sale of goods act, companies act, will make them scratch their ear.

    The short point is, the basics of law need to be absolutely clear. This cannot be compromised if you want to excel (I am not talking about being an average corporate lawyer). All the other fancy laws can be learnt while working. Always remember, Indian Contract Act 1872 is the “mother of all laws”, and you must know it and know it all.

    Having said all this, please make a note that just by knowing the law (or so called being an expert) will not make you a good corporate lawyer. You need to be a team player, learn to logically articulate your point/ position and never be disrespectful in an argument (unless the other person is a bully). Everything else will fall in place.

    How do you maintain a work-life balance? Are there any specific time management tips you would like to share?

     

    Though this is tricky, it’s critical for me. Life of a corporate lawyer is very demanding, so one has to make a conscious effort to maintain this balance. For last several years, this has worked for me (not saying that it has worked all the time):

    • maintaining an effective to-do list (and prioritize matters)
    • effectively delegating and keeping the working team on the same page, up-to-date with the matter so the person next in line can take charge whenever required
    • Learning the art of saying “no.” Sometimes this is the key (Caution: use with care).  

    Most of my friends wake up, shower, and go straight to work. They all complain about having no time to do anything. I make sure that I get at least 3 hours for myself in the morning.This makes me more productive and helps in having a peaceful workday.

    Tell us about your journey from being a student to a partner. Whether life changes after being a partner?

     

    For me, this journey was a natural process. I kept my focus on doing good work and left all other things to my mentors (who never disappointed me). My agenda was to complain only when I wasn’t getting challenging work

    (but that never happened).

    Life doesn’t change if you like your work and have the same vision as the firm. Just be prepared for the responsibility.

    Tell us about your international secondments. How important are these secondments?

     

    The six months I spent in Tokyo with Morrison & Foerster, provided me with a very different kind of exposure. Japan as a jurisdiction is a unique, distinct and process oriented. I sincerely believe that such secondments are very important for everyone who is on track for a leadership role.

    How to excel in what you do? How to become the star of the firm?

     

    There’s no rocket science in excelling in anything you do. You:

     

      • have to be passionate about what you do. If you aren’t, change
      • should keep your focus on quality work
      • shouldn’t get bothered about what people say behind your back (just remember, they are either jealous or simply jealous and that means you are doing good)  
      • Interact with your seniors. You will get to learn a lot, even in a mere 2 min conversation
      • teach a subject at some law school. You will be amazed to see how this will change things in your work life

    select a stream/ segment and be the champion in that enjoy your life.

    • If you keep taking the stress and working all days, weeks and months- what’s the fun in being a star.   

    What is the difference between a hard worker and a smart worker?

     

    A hard worker is a like a horse with blinkers, just running in one direction without a long-term goal. A smart worker will have a 360-degree vision, will prioritize things and effectively manage his time. No one wants to be in office over the weekends!

    Please note that there’s a difference between ‘shirking away responsibility’ and the ‘art of delegation’. As you go up the ladder, you have to be a smart worker, taking the team together towards the collective vision through effective delegation, prioritizing things and being responsible for team’s action.

    How important are the grades at a law school?

     

    If a survey is done, this question will top the list of every law student. We should remember one simple point, anything that reflects on ‘what all and how’ have you done things in your five years (or 3 years) of college life- is relevant, very relevant. I am not in any way looking away from the known concerns on curriculum, a pattern of examination and marking strategy. I am just trying to say things are relative, isn’t it the same for every student taking the exam? So you have to be relatively the best! Period.

    Having said this, I don’t believe that just a good grade is an indication of strong fundamental knowledge of the law, but it’s enough to bring you to the other side of the table for an interview. Isn’t that the first hurdle, which you want to cross anyway.

    Is it important to be people’s person for career progression?

     

    Well, this is a very tricky question. Let me answer this little differently.

    You cannot give importance to a bi-product. However, sometimes, certain bi-products are equally valuable, just like the final product itself. Therefore, the entire process force has to be directed towards the final product, and all other things will fall into place.

    I won’t say that being a people’s person is a critical criterion. But everyone likes to work in a team, which is aligned towards one goal.

    What is the importance of socializing on career progression?

     

    We need to understand that ‘socialization’ as a construct is not a skill-set, which needs to be developed. We are born with it. The entire premise of civilization and society is based on socialization. Ross (well…not Mike Ross!) defined socialization as “the development of the we feeling in associates and their growth in capacity and will to act together.” Gone are those days where a star corporate lawyer used to steal the show! It’s the era of “we & all” and only collective effort of the team makes an individual and the firm successful.

    Please note that socialization in this context doesn’t mean eating, drinking, smoking, partying and/or gossiping together. It means more than this! Having a meaningful conversation with everyone, greeting them, and being there when they need you (work or otherwise) is the construct, which helps you attain that maturity and stability in the system. Having said this, you shouldn’t confuse this with ‘acting in a manner to please others’.

    I feel that today, a firm may be ready to lose a star lawyer who is not a team player rather than a perfect team player. Productivity and effectiveness are directly proportionate to the collective efforts. The standards these days are so high that every other lawyer has same or similar skill-sets as far as the technical/legal skills are concerned. What will differentiate a good lawyer from the rest are the leadership skill and the ability to make team members a part of transaction/ matter they are working on. In my experience, productivity and learning agility of an associate increases exponentially when he/ she gets a feeling of “my matter” rather than “partners’ matter”.

    What message would you like to leave to our readers?

     

    Especially for the young corporate lawyers, it’s important that they:

    • learn to write/ draft in simple English;
    • understand and appreciate the commercial construct of transactions, and
    • understand, the client wants a solution-oriented approach.  

    I am not highlighting the obvious that they need to know the law and keeping abreast with the latest developments/transactions.

    I genuinely believe that I am a risk taker. I know that if I don’t take any chances in this short life, I will have a dull and boring life.Who wants a boring life anyway? Having said that, it doesn’t mean you will succeed every time. In fact, you will fail most of the times, but the good part is the experience you get and the fact that you will never regret “not doing it”. Regretting about things ‘that you never tried’ is worst than trying and failing.

    The short point is that you should do whatever you want to do in life if you feel it’s the right thing for you. Period. Whatever you do in life (good or bad), people around you will speak about you. It’s fine, because, at the end of the day, you are here for the experience and not to just please people around you.

    Also, if you’re good at what you do, there’s no reason you can’t brag about it.

    Always remember, we all ‘work to live’ and not ‘live to work’. Being dedicated is one thing and being in office 24/7 is another. Go out, meet with friends, travel, do something for yourself, and patiently hear everyone but listen to just yourself.

    Fitness is not just an important aspect; it’s essential if you want to enjoy your work as well as your personal life. You just can’t ignore it. I don’t need to explain what needs to be done. Everyone knows it, so don’t be lazy, go out and sweat.