Super Lawyer

Category: Featured Insights

  • Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore in 1998 and has been the co-founder of Alternative Law Forum. He is based out of Bangalore, and is widely known across the legal fraternity for his campaigns on issues of public concern, especially on conflicts of Intellectual Property and medical accessibility.

    Soon after his graduation he received the Chevening Scholarship and did a Masters in Law and Development from the University of Warwick. He holds a Ph.D in Film Studies  from Jawaharlal Nehru University and a Post-graduate Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore. Over the course of his career he has immersed himself in human right issues, media law and legal writing. He is currently a visiting faculty fellow at Yale.
    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His time at NLSIU and Warwick and his educational qualifications
    • His various experiences as a Fullbright Scholar, Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, and the Hughes Visiting Scholar.
    • Alternative Law Forum
    • His work with iCommons, the Sarai Institute and Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.
    • How he combined media and law
    • His experience as a member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008
    • His views on human rights advocacy

     

    What could be a short introduction of yourself?

    Hi, my name is Lawrence Liang and I am a legal researcher and writer based in Bangalore. I was one of the co-founders of the Alternative Law Forum, a collective of lawyers working on public interest issues and I have been involved with ALF for around 15 years. I left ALF in 2015 and I am currently a visiting faculty fellow  at Yale.

     

    You received an English Honours in English Literature from St. Joseph’s College, Bangalore before graduating with a law degree from NLSIU. What prompted the choice to study law?

    An early fascination with law – possibly prompted by popular culture – drew me towards law, but more than a clear idea of wanting to do law, I was clear that I had no inclination towards the sciences and at that point of time pursuing my first love – literature – didn’t seem like a feasible career option. Also it was the time that the National law school had just been set up and we started encountering a number of the NLS students in the quizzing and debating circuit and they seemed like some of the brightest people we had met. On inquiring further we figured that the law school was an an incredible experiment to revamp legal education and appeared to be the most exciting place that one could be in. My English Honours was actually alongside my time at law school. This was at St. Josephs’ where the department used to offer English Honors programs open to all, and in many ways doing this alongside the law shaped many of my subsequent interests in inter disciplinary studies, and in law and literature. While we we were studying subjects like copyright in law school, we were also being exposed to critical theory at Josephs, and one could start seeing the connections between ideas of authorship which were so central to copyright but being differently interrogated by thinkers like Michel Foucault and Roland Barthes. It convinced me of the need to have a wider approach to the law than just legal formalism.

     

    What work did your masters in Law and Development involve in Warwick?

    The Law in development program was attractive to those of us interested in a critical perspective mainly because Prof. Upendra Baxi taught there, and his scholarship had been very important to us. Warwick has a wonderful history of a engagement with law from a global south perspective and while there, my main learning was to develop a sharp ideological understanding of law and political economy especially in the way that it impacted questions of justice.

     

    As a recipient of the British Chevening Scholarship, what opportunities did that open up for you? Was there a process for application for the scholarship?

    The Chevening scholarship was literally the only way I could have afforded doing a Masters in the UK and we were lucky at that time that they had two scholarships for people interested in law and development. There was an application and interview process and the interview was a bit of a disaster, so I was rather lucky that I actually managed to get the scholarship. My time at Warwick helped shape an interest in activist lawyering and I started thinking about the need to set up a space after returning. I also took the opportunity to do courses that allowed me to dive into the continental philosophical tradition which significantly shaped my intellectual and political outlook.

     

    You were the Best Outgoing Student at Warwick! What activities did you engage in there besides academics?

    It is amazing that I got any work done there actually considering it was also a year of being passionately in love. But since cross border romances are best conducted under the shadows of culture I managed to watch many art house films and plays which I did not get to see in India, and the summer was one long cricket match rudely interrupted with thesis and course work breaks.

     

    You have a Ph.D from the Jawaharlal Nehru University Film Studies Dept. and a PG Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for study of Culture and Society as well. How did you come to cultural studies? Did it have an impact on your approach to law?

    Strangely enough while I turned to cultural studies and film studies from a boredom with law, they also enabled me to return to the law with renewed interest, but with a slightly modified perspective. My interest in cultural theory allowed me to read the law not merely from within its internal logic of rules and norms, but through a symbolic register where one could read law as culture. In recent times it is the discipline of anthropology which has been most exciting for me and the work of legal anthropologists like Pratiksha Baxi, Annelise Riles, Perveez Mody in domains as varied as rape law, international finance and the Special Marriages Act have been very exciting and inspiring for anyone interested in the workings of the law both in theory and practice.

     

    As a Fullbright Visiting Scholar in Columbia University at the Anthropology Department, what did your work entail?

    My time at Columebia offered me a chance to finish work on my doctoral thesis, and being at the anthropology department was to be a part of a fantastic intellectual community which allowed me to interact with many people whose work I have admired over the years. Brian Larkin who has worked on an ethnography of media piracy is a kindred spirit and he was my host while I was there. In some ways anthropology has emerged as the intellectual refuge for many disciplines and the number of law graduates who have becomes anthropologists is a good indication of what a fertile field it is especially in a country with as complex a legal system as India where numerous legal traditions and temporalities coexist and collide with each other.

     

    Now you are the Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, at Yale Univ. for the academic year 2016-17. What do you focus your teaching on?

    I am teaching two courses, one is a cinema course where I look at the social life of cinema in India moving beyond the cinematic text to focus on spatial and technological histories, fan clubs, labour histories etc. The second course I am teaching is on the Trial and its public effects in India where I look at key trials that captured the public imagination in India in the colonial and postcolonial context. I move between cases like the Tilak trial, the INA trials to the Nanavati case and the Arushi trial as a way of looking at the public life of law in India, and the way that trial becomes a critical event that recalibrates ideas of politics and public morality. It also becomes a story about the intersection between law and media since these very public trials become a theatre of justice constantly mediated by different technologies of mass media and legal trials become an effective site for the staging of dramaturgies of justice.

     

    As the Hughes Visiting Scholar, Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan University in 2014, were there any interesting conclusions to your work then, that you could share?

    Michigan was a brief stint in which I got to test out some of the ideas that I had been working on at the time especially on ideas of forensic imagination and the rise of forensics in legal process. I was interested at that time in the idea of the doctored image, narco analysis etc and my friend Joyojeet Pal who teaches at Michigan is also interested in information politics so there was a superb synergy. I was there just after the Polar Vortex which meant that the extreme cold ensured that you just lock yourself up and do your work without any distraction. Ann Arbor represents the best and worst that a life in ideas could represent- the Ivory tower you are confined in because it is just too snowy to step outside but where you keep warm in good intellectual company.

     

    You were a Co-founder of ALF. How did the idea develop to start that?

    lawrence-liang-2ALF was both the result of many years of conversations with friends as well as strangers who were as excited about the possibility of the experiment. Most of us had done some time with human rights lawyers or organizations, and while we were inspired by the legacy of critical lawyering India, we also felt the lack of a space that brought together litigation, activism and academic research. ALF was born out of a belief that there was a need to bring together these in a way that broke the barrier between theory and practice, and to a certain extent we were successful even if this was not without its attendant difficulties. The temporal nature of litigation and activism is always about the immediate and the urgent while research has a longer durée, and sometimes these can be in conflict with each other. But at ALF I was lucky to be in the company of extremely passionate and committed people, and I learnt that one’s political stances are not just learnt from the outside world but equally in these small experiments at collective living and working. To believe in an abstract idea of the right to equality is one thing, to actualize it in your practice is much more difficult, but in trying to do so you learn more about the abstract value as well.

     

    What work does ALF focus on? Is there a unique work culture that volunteers or employees are expected to adhere to or anything in particular that is expected from them?

    ALF works in a variety of areas from access to the criminal justice system, the politics of intellectual property, sexuality, labour etc. From the start we were committed to the idea of a non hierarchical workspace which was organized on the basis of collective responsibility- again much easier in principle than in practice- but I think an informal ethos and a respect for each other’s work is what attracted people towards ALF. Given the relatively modest salaries that we were offering, what made ALF attractive for many people was that it offered a vibrant intellectual and political environment, a collegial space underwritten by friendship and the chance to do work which you could see had some impact at least  on the lives of people.

     

    What impact has working at ALF had on your life outlook?

    This one will probably need more space than I have, but one simple one is a recognition that while the law is often a leaky umbrella, often it is the only one we have. And the real challenge of an ideological critique of the law is not to disavow it, but to deploy as effectively as possible using its own logic to work for those whom it normally works against. Apart from the professional side, it has shown me via the words of Neil Gaiman that inside everyone are strange and surprising universes and to work together is to be invited to universes that one would not normally be a part of.

     

    Tell us a bit about the Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.

    Pad.ma is an online archive of video and documentary footage. It seeks to create a visual archive of densely annotated clips and Indiancine.ma tries to do the same for Indian films. These are collaborations with a fantastic group in Berlin, Pirate Cinema and Camp in Mumbai. They arise from a simultaneous interest in visual culture as well as in the radical potential of open access.

     

    You have shown remarkable commitment to a variety of causes over the years. What are the major causes you espouse? Did you always know what issues you wanted to work on or did that happen with time?

    While one always has a vague sense of values that one is committed to, the commitment to specific issues often arises from a particular context. For instance while I was generally interested in media laws, it was through the process of working with Vikalp (A group of documentary film makers who came together to fight censorship) that you are then forced to dive into and in some sense try and master a particular field. Similarly with issues of access to knowledge, the specific context of the DU photocopy case both confirms the importance of a politics of knowledge even as it refines the political stance you had through the technical prism of law. To be simultaneously committed to things you believe in even as you remain open to contingent forces that change or alter your politics is both exhilarating and inspiring. There is a lovely saying that revolutions should be born out of joy not sorrow, and I think we often derive out vitality from the energy of those we see around us, who in the face of extreme injustice are still defiantly hopeful for a better world.

     

    Tell us how you have managed to combine media and law?

    We live in a mediatized world where it is difficult to imagine any aspect of our lives which are not touched by media. From cinema to the internet, media occupies and shapes our consciousness, so it no coincidence that the world of law becomes crucially enmeshed with that of media. In a narrow sense that would mean the regulation of media, but in a broader sense it also means the transformation of law itself where law also becomes mediatized. The emergence of sting operations, the prevalence of trial by media are crucially media effects even as they are legal events, and to think of the contemporary is to think of media. Ravi Sundaram whose work has been very influential for me has a book which theorizes India ‘after media’ and in a sense he posits that everything changes after media and as a legal scholar you are bound to account for what that means in the legal world.

     

    What is you role in iCommons? What do you strive to achieve there?

    The Creative commons movement was a very important moment that showed us the possibility of what an alternative imaginary to the closed world of copyright could be. It expressed a philosophy of sharing and the creative potential of it contrasted with the diminishing of the public domain by strong IP regimes. It was also beset by its own limitations being enshrined within the idea of liberal legality, and for someone coming from India, where you could see the democratizing potential of illicit practices such as piracy, my own role was to contextualize what something like the CC movement meant in the global south, but also to nuance the debate with an understanding of the social and cultural worlds of knowledge sharing beyond the law.

     

    What work have you done in collaboration with Sarai?

    Sarai was one of the most exciting and important media and cultural spaces that emerged in early 2000’s which opened up all kinds of possibilities in the public discourse around art, media and urban space. It was set up jointly by the Raqs media collective and faculty members of CSDS and they supported the most cutting edge work in theory and practice for many years. The range of fellowships they offered, the legacy of the work they supported (from artists to graphic novelists) has been phenomenal. I started collaborating with Sarai in 2002, and it was a combination of boldness and generosity on their part which also helped ALF in its formative years. They saw a bunch of passionate and smart lawyers who wanted to try something new and supported us (intellectually and financially) helping us set our foundations. In 2005 we organized a global conference on intellectual property called Contested Commons and Trespassing Publics which I think made a significant impact on the global discourse on IP. We also co organized an event called World Information City that brought together artists and theorists thinking about idea and politics knowledge era as they played out in the lives of cities. My conversations with Jeebesh Bagchi, Ravi Sundaram, Ravi Vasudevan, Shuddhabrata Sengupta and others opened up ways of thinking from the diverse worlds of art, cinema and technology. Sarai, I think, allowed for us to see the various expressive forms that thought can take, and the traditional academic form of scholarship was both something they showed the limits of even by pushing the boundaries of how scholarship could be creatively and energetically expanded.

     

    You have several publications to your credit! How do you choose when to write about what? Do you think research and publishing is very important for a law student?

    Sometimes you choose to write because you are following an intuition, a curiosity and an intellectual itch. Other times a specific areas chooses you by virtue of its immediacy. At any rate for academics to write is to think and even though the act of writing is often a painful process every once in a while in the midst of writing you realize you are expressing thoughts you didn’t even know you had. So yes writing is crucial for law students, and I am grateful for the endless projects that we had to do as law school. I don’t think law school really teaches you law, what it does teach you is how to think about the law, how to forage for research material and how to put together an argument. What I do think is important is to fight the very real possibilities of writing becoming a painful drudgery (often the case with academic writing) and to experiment with different forms which retain the joyfulness of writing. For me writing in a range of forums from art journals, newspapers and academic spaces has been the key to maintaining my sanity since the joy of writing can easily be assassinated by footnotes. But more than a writer I think of myself as a reader, and writing for me is often is an excuse to make sense of what I am reading and to have imaginary conversations.

     

    Please tell us about your experience as a Member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008?

    This was a considerably difficult period in Sri Lanka, the civil war was at its peak and one of the immediate casualties was free speech. Journalists and editors were being targeted – often killed by the state as well as the LTTE. It was humbling to learn of the incredibly difficult circumstances under which journalists were doing their work and as members of the drafting committee we were privy to a remarkable set of testimonies. It reminded me of Foucault’s idea of parhessia- an idea that preceded the idea of free speech and referred to fearless speech- reminding us of the high stakes involved in speaking truth to power, and the small role that lawyers can play in nurturing a safe home of fearless speech. The experience really shaped my understanding of free speech laws in India and to appreciate the relatively good jurisprudence that exists on free speech in India. All the more crucial in these days when sedition charges are thrown about like cheap change and when shrill blood hungry media anchors become the greatest dangers to free speech.

     

    What changes do you hope to see in human rights advocacy in India over the next decade?

    With the mushrooming of law schools all over India, I hope that we in addition to producing lawyers for law firms, we also produce a generation of lawyers who continue a critical tradition. The law students I meet today are remarkably bright- certainly smarter than we were- they are born digital and command an enviable ease with all kinds of online research skills, and what would be fantastic is to have more lawyers who are able to engage with human rights issues not just in a generic sense of political empathy, but to deploy their legal skills in understanding and critiquing mainstream areas of law. What the human rights movement needs are more lawyers who know corporate law, insurance, taxation etc. In other words we need lawyers who understand the belly of the beast but also understand that the beast preys upon those who are most vulnerable and to be an effective human rights lawyer means internalizing Part 3 of the constitution, but also understanding how corporate governance can affect the same Part 3.

     

  • Sanjay Hegde, Senior Advocate, on building a legal practice, arguing on landmark cases and on legal journalism

    Sanjay Hegde, Senior Advocate, on building a legal practice, arguing on landmark cases and on legal journalism

    Mr. Sanjay R Hegde, is a Senior Advocate at the Supreme Court of India. He began his illustrious career back in 1989 while working as a lawyer with M/s Mulla & Mulla & Craigie Blunt & Caroe Solicitors. He gained his LL.M while at work and thereafter moved to Delhi to practice in the Supreme Court in the Chambers of Senior Advocate Mr. G. Ramaswamy. During this period he worked on several high profile cases, appeared for the Government of Indian before an international arbitral tribunal and from 1996 to 2004 was on the Union of India’s arguing panel before the Supreme Court. He also worked for a decade as the Advocate on Record for the State of Karnataka and thereafter focused on private practice. He has frequently engaged in legal journalism including appearing on television panels and writing as a columnist for newspapers.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • His career choices and the reasoning behind them.
    • His experiences in the various roles and offices he has assumed over the years.
    • His opinions on miscellaneous topics – the importance of mooting and writing for students, ADR in International Law and legal journalism.
    • His advice to law students while studying, practicing and moulding their careers.

     

    Please elaborate on the motivating factors which helped you in choosing legal studies.

    I assume you mean, why did I decide to study law? Well, in our days, choosing a career in law, was not a matter of choice but circumstance. Often one did not set out to become a lawyer, but did drift into the profession after exhausting most other avenues. My father was a lawyer as was his uncle and grand-uncle. So as the first of five children, of a not very successful lawyer, a legal career, while available was not necessarily a first choice. I did law, while working in a computer company and studying for the civil services examination. I also did an LL.M simultaneously while working with Mulla & Mulla.

     

    Please tell us about how you decided to pursue litigation. Were you considering any other opportunities?

    I got selected by the UPSC for a non-IAS service, which I kept on hold for a couple of years, while I started out in the Supreme Court with the then attorney general Mr.G.Ramaswamy who was my guru in court-craft. I had been a debater and a quizzer in my times, so a quiet life behind my desk in a solicitor’s firm (that’s what we called corporate law then), did not appeal to me. It had to be courtrooms or nothing in my case.

     

    How were your years in college? Did your study prepare you in any way for real-life practice in Courts?

    When I see kids in law schools these days (my son included), prepare so hard with presentations and papers, I am reminded of how little I did in college. I did spend good time in my law college in Bombay (K.C.Law) making friends and eating sandwiches from Ramesh Sandwichwala. My life as a law student, was evening classes after work in my computer company’s administrative job. I attended classes which had good teachers and neglected other subjects. I passed the examinations with undistinguished marks and often found that I scored badly in subjects which I knew well by studying original texts. In those days, examiners had got used to answers mugged up from guides (three test papers) and original stuff may have fazed some of them. Suffice to say, the course did not prepare me for life in court, but I did learn a bit by tagging along with my father and his friends.

     

    What should a law student do, in your opinion, to shape up his profile for litigation?

    Practice simple things like public speaking and elocution. You would be surprised to see how badly some people express themselves in court, and how judges are grateful to any lawyer who can clearly state the problem, before attempting to persuade them to his side. Some experience of dramatics and the stage are also useful. Both Kapil Sibal and Rajeev Dhavan, had experience in theatre which went a long way towards making a courtroom presence.

     

    How important do you think Mooting and Academic Writing are for a Law Student aspiring to become an Advocate?

    Both are very important. Mooting helps you deconstruct issues, prepare memorials and briefs and present them to trained minds. Writing is even more important. An ability to clearly express oneself in writing, in simple sentences, is the hallmark of a good mind. While taking people on board, I am more likely to choose, someone who can give me a quick written note, than someone who can turn a wonderful phrase in conversation.

     

    After your enrolment at the Bar in 1989, you worked in Mumbai for a period of three years. How did these formative years mould you as a lawyer?

    They taught me about handling corporate client problems, and how to turn around work reasonably quickly. More importantly they taught me the value of friends in the profession and the constant peer-review that always accompanies life at the bar.

     

    You have a rich experience of working under Mr. G Ramaswamy, Senior Advocate and former Attorney General. You have also assisted several distinguished Senior Advocates at the Supreme Court. Please tell us about your work under them.

    Each senior advocate addressing the court, is essentially a performing artiste. At the end of the day, he is not so much concerned with the judgment which is the judge’s job. He is concerned that his performance was the best that could be summoned from within him and that it best expressed all the points in his client’s favour. Mr Ramaswamy had an amazing depth of knowledge and experience, which enabled him with a bare instruction on facts, to argue for hours and place a case in its entire legal perspective. He had the ability to hear a whispered phrase as an instruction from the advocate by his side, and to know exactly what was meant and what needed to be said. In other words, an amazing pickup on the fly. I find the same ability in Sibal and Rohatgi, as well as Salve and Fali Nariman. The latter two also share the breadth of learning that GR had, and Mr Nariman particularly is almost oracular in his wisdom. Among the others I have instructed Mr Sorabjee, stands out for his ability to hit all the right notes without making it seem too heavy, Mr Ashok Desai’s ability to paint a picture and scrap through to a conclusion without angering anyone is a gift to be envied. The late Goolam Vahanvati must be mentioned for his understated, efficient manner of delivery and his incredible ability to turn around written submissions and pleadings in a very short time.

     

    Many students aspire to practice at the Supreme Court and High Courts. Should a student first practise at the Trial Court to learn the nuances, or is it fine to start at a High Court itself?

    I’d say go wherever there is enough work to keep you occupied. Do not get hung up because you hang around the superior courts, do not feel low in the lower courts. A good grounding in the trial courts, stands you in good stead thereafter. Mr Ramaswamy spent 11 years in the trial courts before moving to the Madras High Court and his base in civil and criminal law, gave him an advantage over his peers who had been appellate court lawyers throughout.

     

    What are the differences that you see between a practice in a High Court and a practice in the Supreme Court?

    The Supreme Court has greater turnover and greater mortality. In the Supreme Court, you prepare a lot, only to see it destroyed in a two minute performance. High courts are more relaxed but more time consuming.

     

    What is your opinion on the recent judgement of the Supreme Court which upheld the ‘Collegium’ system?

    (Mr Hegde had appeared for Union of India In Re: Special Reference 1 of 1998 i.e. The Third Judges’ Appointment Case).

    I did assist Mr Sorabjee the attorney general in the Third Judges case. That judgment and the current one, all revolve around independence of the judiciary. Can we have independent judges, if their appointments are made by politicians? The court is part of the political system in a manner of speaking, how far can you keep routine politics away. Has insulating judges, resulted in the creation of a self-perpetuating jurocracy? My personal opinion is that the striking down of the NJAC, is a good blow for judicial independence, especially in an era of majoritarian politics.

     

    How effective, in your opinion, are Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanisms in International Law?

    (Mr Hegde has appeared before an International Arbitral Tribunal for the Union of India.)

    Well my case was the Government versus Suzuki Motor Corporation which was essentially a private contractual dispute. But in public international law, in the absence of pre-decided judicial forums, alternate dispute resolutions are often the only options available.

     

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    Could you elaborate on your experiences as an AOR for Government of Karnataka?

    (Mr Hegde has been an Advocate-on-Record for the Government of Karnataka at the Supreme Court for a period of ten years, during which he handled many sensational and landmark cases, like the Kaveri and Krishna Water Disputes, Rajkumar Kidnapping case, Swami Shraddhananda case etc.)

    It was personally exhausting, tough and immensely educative all at once. As long as one was not bothered about being adequately paid for the effort, working for the state made me the all-round lawyer that I am. I learnt Criminal law and indirect taxation on the job. A wealth of memories include a chief minister being hauled up for contempt, a chief secretary’s perjury prosecution being stayed, a godman or two being kept in jail for a long period of time. I remember early on Rajkumar being kidnapped and the state preparing to release his associates, till Justice Bharucha yelled, “If you can’t govern constitutionally, then quit”. A few years after the incident, some of the same associates, got death sentences in appeal, where the TADA court had given life imprisonment. So many memories require a book and not a question.

     

    Other than the Supreme Court, you have appeared before various fora, how is a practice before these Tribunals different? What is your opinion on “Tribunalisation”?

    (Mr. Hegde has appeared before many such tribunals as CESTAT, TDSAT and NGT.)

    Tribunals are more specialised areas and often the monetary impact is much heavier than normal courts. I do think that tribunalisation is the way to go, though courts have increasingly frequent misgivings. After all judges can’t know everything about complicated technical decisions, but experts in these fields can make decisions if judicial members control the fairness of the process.

     

    You are a designated Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court of India. How is the life of a Senior Advocate different from a normal Advocate? How do you manage the responsibility?

    A senior advocate is a bit like a taxi for hire, for day and date only. If the ride is not smooth he is unlikely to be hired again. But flippancy apart, the biggest responsibility is to give the client and the briefing lawyer, a pre-view of how the case is likely to be appear to the eyes of a judge. A good senior will in all probability leave you with a forecast of how the game will play out in the court and should advise you on your best options, including the negotiating of a settlement if one is possible. Unfortunately people come to seniors at the last minute to try for a win but not for the available reasonable option, of a realistic assessment of their chances in court.

     

    You are a well-known newspaper columnist and Television Panelist on pressing legal issues. What, in your opinion, is the future of legal journalism as a career, for aspiring people?

    There is a great demand for people who can decode legal processes and put it in simple terms that an ordinary viewer or reader can understand. We still have to develop a culture of great legal reporters in the mould of an Adam Liptak, a Joshua Rozenburg or a Dahlia Lithwick. Indian reporters, out of fear of contempt laws, often tend to get into bare bones reporting of fact, without too much accompanying analysis.

     

    Students tend to take up plush Corporate Firm jobs, as they find the prospect of an initial struggle at the Bar scary. What would be your message to them?

    They are right to choose whatever makes them comfortable. After all many of them are first generation lawyers, who have spent fortunes on their education and need to start earning as soon as possible. However a law school must provide you with the ability to make decisions and see them through to fruition. If litigation is your thing stick by it, keep working away, offer your services free if needed, to lawyers who are too busy or too tired to attend hearings. If you keep pegging away, cracks will appear in seemingly closed doors and you will make it. Keep going without getting disappointed or turning to drinks and the like, and you will find your niche from which to grow.

     

    What advice would like to share with our readers who are mostly young lawyers and law students?

    Be curious, read a lot, keep writing from time to time, but argue everything, every time, even if it is within yourself. For a lawyer, the unargued life is not worth living. Have fun and stay within the boundaries of truth. The world will accept you and find a use for you.

     

     

    This interview was taken by: Shreesha Kailankaje, IV year, GNLU, Gandhinagar

  • Sangeeta Lakhi, Partner, Rajani Associates, on leading a practice in Capital Markets

    Sangeeta Lakhi, Partner, Rajani Associates, on leading a practice in Capital Markets

    Sangeeta Lakhi qualified in Law in 1993 and possesses an experience of over 20 years in the legal industry. She has worked as an Associate at Crawford Bayley and is at present a Partner at Rajani Associates. She has been handling the International Capital Markets practice of the firm since 2004 for which she has been recognized as a ‘Leading Lawyer for Capital Markets’ by Legal 500.

    Sangeeta has recently completed 105 issues of GDRs, FCCBs and QIPs, each of them full-fledged transactions, handled by her. Each transaction has been unique and no one transaction has been the same as the other. Sangeeta has handled these issues for companies in almost all sectors, whether they be pharma, textiles, oil, manufacturing, service, etc.

    In this interview, she talks to us about:

    • Choosing law as a profession and changes in the legal sphere since she graduated in 1993.
    • Her career decisions.
    • Working in the corporate sector and her specialization.
    • Advice to students about the Corporate Sector and prioritizing.

     

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are young law students & young lawyers?

    I am a happy lawyer. I love my work and am constantly looking out for more challenges.

     

    What incidents, influences or interests prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what would you have considered for a career?

    At first I was not serious about law and just wanted to study some more. However, after I started working at a law firm and on assignments, I developed a liking for the field and the challenges that each assignment contains and the satisfaction that I get upon their completion. I love to travel so if I hadn’t become a lawyer, I would have been an air hostess!

     

    What has your experience with legal education in this country been like and how relevant do you feel it has been to your profession after attaining your LL.B in 1993?

    The legal education in our country is improving and I am very proud and happy about it.  I am happy with my education and what I’ve achieved before I started work in 1993. I did my B.Com and then did an MBA and law, not to mention other small courses along the way. All of these have shaped my career and outlook towards people and the world.

     

    How competitive would you say the legal profession was when you entered it, has it changed since then?

    Not very! A lot has changed now. We hear of new law firms springing up every month and it is constantly getting more and more competitive.

     

    What led you to a practice in Capital Markets as your area of speciality?

    In 2004 when the market was booming, I chose to work on international capital markets, in which I have completed 105 issues. When the markets fell in 2008 and deals in international capital markets became scarce, I went back to what I was doing prior to 2004, i.e. corporate work.

     

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    Did you always prefer corporate practice what thought do you have for litigation?

    Although, I have done some litigation, my preference has always been on the corporate side.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your time at Crawford and Bayley.

    My years with Crawford Bayley & Co. were very good and taught me many things, not just law. My senior, Mr. Suresh Talwar was the best teacher I could have asked for, and I have learnt a lot from him.

     

    What prompted the shift from Crawford Bayley to your current Firm?

    I guess I was looking for a change of work. For Rajani it was just the idea of supporting and growing the firm from its inception.

     

    What were the biggest obstacles and challenges faced by the firm during the initial days?

    At the beginning we were a start-up and did not have a brand which motivated us to prove ourselves with our hard work and dedication and win clients’ confidence and appreciation.

     

    Were there any trade-offs?

    None. I am a workaholic.

     

    How do you balance your professional life with your personal life given the heavily demanding working hours of the profession you have chosen?

    It is just a matter of priority. I ensure that both my professional life and my personal life get due attention.

     

    In dealing with clients within and beyond the domestic markets, what do you personally believe have been your greatest accomplishments through the 105 issues of GDRs, FCCBs, and QIPs you have dealt with so far?

    Each transaction has been unique and has had its own challenges. In dealing with the number of clients, merchant bankers and lawyers across the globe, I have made new friends and we receive, as well as, provide referral clients to each other.

     

    What are your plans for your career path in the future both presently and in the long term?

    To continue to work hard and be recognised as one of the Magic Circle Law Firms in India.

     

    What would be your advice to law students and young lawyers looking forward to make a mark in the industry?

    This field is not easy. It requires a lot of hard work and dedication. You must be serious about your career and be ready to deal with various kinds of clients.

     

    What would your parting advice be to our readers?

    Don’t forget to enjoy life!

  • Amit Cowshish, Partner, Dua Associates, on practicing in Defence Law and serving as a Financial Advisor (Acquisition) in the Ministry of Defence

    Amit Cowshish, Partner, Dua Associates, on practicing in Defence Law and serving as a Financial Advisor (Acquisition) in the Ministry of Defence

    Amit Cowshish, served the Indian Defence Accounts Service in various capacities and retired in 2012. Having studied M.A. and M.Phil in Political Science from the Jawaharlal Nehru University, and qualified in Law from Delhi University, Amit had also received a Diploma in Alternative Dispute Resolution from the Indian Law Institute.

    amit-cowshish-2Amit went on to serve on deputation with the Ministry of Defence, first as Under Secretary and later as Additional Financial Advisor & Joint Secretary and Financial Advisor (Acquisition) & Additional Secretary. He also served as Commissioner for Departmental Inquiries on deputation with the Central Vigilance Commission. He is a presently a Distinguished Fellow with the Indian Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, and is presently a Partner with Dua Associates, Advocates and Solicitors.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • Working in the arena of Public Administration;
    • His work with the Defence Accounts Department;
    • His responsibilities with the Minsitry of Defence; and
    • His post-retirement transition to a life in corporate law.

     

    What influenced you to choose law as your profession? Where did you pursue the same?

    Law runs in the family. My father was a lawyer, and so was his father. Both my daughters are lawyers, as well. I had great admiration for the profession right from my early days in school. Destiny took me elsewhere, but after retirement I have returned to the fold, as it were.

    I studied law at the evening centre of the Delhi University while I was in service.

     

    You hold a pre-degree diploma in the Russian and Persian languages. How did you develop an interest in learning languages?

    Apart from Hindi and English, we were taught Punjabi at school.  I picked up Urdu as it was the language used by a large segment of the local population, and used in the courts. That got me interested in languages. So, when I got an opportunity, I decided to learn a couple of foreign languages as well.

     

    What steered you into the area of public administration?

    These are institutes where serving government officers are sent for mid-career courses. I was fortunate to have been sent for the courses run by IIPA (Indian Institute of Public Administration) and NDC (National Defence College).

     

    Do tell us about your journey as part of the Defence Accounts Department.

    I got the opportunity to serve at different stations; travelled far and wide within India; gained vast experience in financial management in defence.

     

    What were your main responsibilities as the Controller of Defence Accounts?

    Controllers of Defence Accounts are responsible for various functions related to accounting, payment, audit and financial advice in relation to the military establishments located within the jurisdiction of the organizations they head.

     

    What was the biggest challenge you faced in your role?

    Being a finance person is, in itself, the biggest challenge in any organization!

     

    What were the different tasks involved in the posts of an Under Secretary, Additional Financial Advisor & Joint Secretary, and Financial Advisor (Acquisition) & Additional Secretary?

    As Under Secretary, I was responsible for matters related to pension policy for the armed forces. As Additional Financial Advisor, my work was related to financial matters concerning the organizations assigned to me as well as defence planning and budget.

    As Financial Advisor (Acquisition), I was associated with all capital acquisitions for the armed forces and the Indian Coast Guard.

     

    How did you come to be associated you with the drafting of the Defence Procurement Manual 2009? Did having a legal qualification help with the same?

    This task was assigned to me, probably because at that point of time I was associated with revenue procurements. Yes, my legal qualifications did help.

     

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    How is it that you came to join Dua Associates as a Partner?

    I joined Dua Associates after my retirement from the Indian Defense Accounts Service in 2012, to keep myself engaged in meaningful work.

     

    Was it difficult to adapt to a corporate firm after having worked for long in public administration?

    The transition was smooth; I did not face any difficulty.

     

    Defence being a very niche sector what would be your advice to young lawyers working in defence matters?

    There is not much of a difference as regards keeping abreast of the latest developments whether one is handling the defence sector or any other sector. To make a beginning, one has to develop general familiarity with the subject, study the existing policies and procedures, follow the developments reported in the media and law journals, keep an eye on the official announcements, and pay special attention to the judgements concerning one’s areas of interest. Attending seminars and other events related to defence matters also helps.

     

    Do you work only on defence related projects at Dua?

    No, the work I do is not confined to defence related projects.

     

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    Would you consider taking a few lectures on Defence law and material procurement if invited?

    Certain statutes like the Army Act, the Air Force Act, the Navy Act and the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act are specific to the armed forces. There are other statues, rules and regulations like the Industries (Development and Regulation) Act, the Companies Act, and policies concerning FDI and exports, etc., which also have a bearing on legal issues concerning the defence sector. However, there is no specific law concerning defence procurement/acquisition by the Ministry of Defence. Defence purchases are primarily governed by the Defence Procurement Procedure and Defence Procurement Manual.

    I would be happy to talk on defence procurement policies and procedures of the Indian Ministry of Defence.

     

    Being a very niche sector what would be your advice to young lawyers working in defence matters?

    Broadly, legal professionals can contribute with regard to service and contractual matters. It is important that those who are interested in these areas not only keep themselves updated about the applicable laws, rules and procedures, but also acquire a good understanding of the organisational ethos of the armed forces, coast guard, border roads, etc., as well as acquaint themselves with the functioning of the defence industry.

  • Jyoti Singh, Partner, Phoenix Legal, on experience in Banking and Finance Law

    Jyoti Singh, Partner, Phoenix Legal, on experience in Banking and Finance Law

    Jyoti Singh studied law at Maharshi Dayanand University and graduated in 2000. She worked for a while at Dhir & Dhir Associates as a Principal Associate and is now a Partner at Phoenix Legal.

    In this interview Jyoti talks to us about:

    • The reasons behind her career choices
    • Her experiences and learning curve while working with Mr. Jugal Wadhwa and Dhir & Dhir Associates.
    • Her views on the current legal education system

     

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law aspirants, lawyers-in-the-making & young lawyers?

    I am a lawyer who hails from Sonipat, a small city in Haryana, and currently a partner at a well-reputed firm thanks to my self-confidence, hard work, sincerity, and dedication.

     

    Which incidents, influences or interests prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what other options would you have considered for a career?

    My father currently practices in Sonipat and I have always seen him working very hard. He still wakes up at 4:00 a.m. and reads his briefs. His lifestyle used to fascinate me. But frankly, I had science as my subject in my 12th Standard. While I was taking up exams for pursuing a career in medicine, but after a detailed discussion with him about my future plans and career choices he ended by telling me that, “You argue so much, I feel you will make a good lawyer”. I laughed it off. But today I surely am a lawyer, though still trying to be a “good one”.

     

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    How would you describe your academic career while at M.D.U, Rohtak? What made you want to pursue an LL.M after your graduation from the same?

    I was one of those students in M.D.U., who probably never bunked a class but still had my own share of fun at hostel. I used to take part in debates and essay writings etc. I pursued a LL.M because I like studying, and frankly while choosing “Winding up by Courts” as a topic of my dissertation I never imagined that one day I would be ranked as a leading lawyer in Dispute Resolution and Insolvency (Ranked by Chambers and Partners 2015 and 2016).

     

    Did you indulge in any co-curricular activities such as debating or mooting while there?

    I participated in debates and moot parliament etc.

     

    What made you target a litigant’s practice straight out of law school?

    My father was and is my inspiration, he is a litigator so it came to me naturally.

     

    What would you say are the greatest learnings from your time spent with Mr. Jugal Wadhwa?

    In terms of law and procedure, it was an enriched legal experience where his knowledge of the same helped systematically build my foundations of law. While practising in the district courts and the High Court of Delhi, it exposed me to both the procedure and the original side of litigation itself.

     

    How did first-hand exposure to the legal system in all its glory affect or influence you?

    The deeper I went into the profession, the more I was convinced that this is what I want to do all my life.

     

    What prompted the shift to Dhir & Dhir Associates? How did your experience there differ from your earlier experiences?

    With Mr. Jugal Wadhwa, I gained a lot of experience in civil and criminal litigation after which I wanted to shift to a law firm. At Dhir & Dhir, I worked with a team specialising in proceedings at AAIFR and High Courts, and slowly started looking after work at various High Courts. The travel intensive nature of my work there increased my exposure to the same.

     

    Why the special interest in Banking and Finance Litigation with a special focus on proceedings under SICA and Insolvency proceedings?

    Dhir and Dhir has been a leading Firm in that area of law, hence it was only natural to have focused on SICA and insolvency proceedings.

     

    Again, when and why did you decide to join Phoenix Legal in 2010?

    Phoenix started in 2008 with a set of very dynamic professionals. I wanted to join a firm where I could grow with the Firm. I joined Phoenix, Mumbai office, in October 2010 as a Counsel and was made partner in April 2011.

     

    How did your previous experiences help you or influence you through the same?

    It helped be set up and grow through a litigation practice.

     

    Your current profile seems fairly commercial and finance-centric under a larger purview of corporate law, how did you come to chose the same as your area of interest?

    I would say that I started as a general litigator and I still do a fair bit of civil, contractual pre-litigation strategy and litigation/ arbitration. But, corporate, banking, and finance have been my core strength due to my extensive experience in these fields (be it advisory or disputes/ recovery).

     

    What has your experience in dealing with foreign companies been like? How do they differ, if at all, from local clients?

    Foreign companies are more professional in their approach but now the local companies are also reaching there.

     

    What would you describe the work atmosphere as? How does the same play out in terms of work load and cooperation among those working with you?

    Work atmosphere plays a very important role because you spend a majority of your time at the workplace. If your colleagues are helpful and seniors are motivating, then it surely acts as a catalyst in facilitating the growth of any individual and the organisation as well, because I believe that “Happy and successful Employees make a Happy and successful Organisation”.

     

    How taxing would you describe your work as, does it afford time for a life outside the office?

    I love what I do and I can’t see myself doing anything else. I am passionate about my work and hence it’s not taxing at all. I am an early riser, so I get my share of “me” time and remain much contended with that.

     

    Looking back, how different would your experience have been if you were at a national law university?

    Education systems makes a lot of difference. Surely there would have been a lot of value added.

     

    What is your opinion of the current legal education system for law students given the internship and material intensive five or three year programmes? How does the same affect your hiring policy?

    I really like the current education system. I see interns at my firm. Some of them “are very good lawyers in making”. We, in fact, sometimes absorbs interns as associates because we have first hand experience of their ability and attitude. I personally, in my team, have a few such examples of individuals who had interned with me and are/were working as associate.

     

    If you were a law student today, would you do anything differently? If so, what would it be and why?

    Yes, certainly. I would have done internships during my law course because getting exposed to practical side of law while gaining knowledge of the theory acts as a stimulant in becoming a good lawyer.

     

    What would your parting advice be to our readers?

    Work hard! Read Hard! Make books your best friend!

  • Prem Rajani, Managing Partner, Rajani Associates, on building a firm practice and experience in corporate law

    Prem Rajani, Managing Partner, Rajani Associates, on building a firm practice and experience in corporate law

    Prem Rajani graduated from Government Law College in 1990 and is now the Managing Partner of Rajani Associates which was established in 1999. In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His time in law school and how facets of the profession have evolved with time.
    • The importance of moots, debating and internships.
    • Building a corporate law firm profile.
    • Working in Structuring and M&A deals.
    • Advice for young lawyers today.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers, most of whom are university going law students in India?

    Currently I am the Managing Partner of Rajani Associates. Rajani Associates is a full-service law firm based in Mumbai and established in November 1999. The Firm has been involved in domestic and international practice in nearly all fields of corporate law as well as commercial litigation and property law. The Firm closely works alongside firms in the US, Europe, Middle East, South East Asia and Australia to meet the needs of our global clients. Our areas of practice are Corporate & Commercial, Mergers & Acquisitions and Competition Law, Banking and Finance, Domestic and International Capital Markets, Private Equity, Corporate Litigation and Arbitration, fund Formation, Real Estate & Trusts, Projects and Project Finance, Technology, Media & Telecom and Intellectual Property rights, Corporate Debt Restructuring, Structuring, Anti-Bribery and Corruption.

     

    Tell us about your life before you joined law school. What made you gravitate towards law?

    Immediately after finishing with school and college (commerce faculty from Jai Hind College) I joined Government Law College. The paramount factor that made me take up law was my father’s business that had a lot of dependency on solicitors for preparation of legal documents. Alongside my studies, very early on, I started assisting my father with his business and as a result often met many solicitors. The manner in which solicitors conducted themselves fascinated me. I started getting drawn to legalities and the documents that were being prepared. There came a point that I became so passionate about the profession that I had no doubt left in my mind that a solicitor is all I wanted to be.

     

     

    You graduated from GLC in 1990. How were the days? What would you advise our readers is the ideal things to look to get out of university, other than a degree?

    During my time law firms did not retain interns for summer/winter training and as such work training for most of us did not happen till we joined a law firm as an article for solicitor examination training. Most of us therefore very seriously attended college and read books from the library. Today the trend has changed. Young students are getting a chance to intern at a variety of established law firms giving them a chance to know and practice law outside of books and may be college attendance has taken a backseat. However I don’t necessarily mean that in a bad way. I only do wish to suggest to the younger generation that along with collecting work experience they must spend more time reading Bare Acts and established commentary books rather than simply relying on test papers to clear examinations, because after all knowledge of Law is paramount and irreplaceable. The opportunity to participate in moot courts as a student is also great and every student must to his or her best ability try and participate in them, whether as the research team or on the argument team. Lastly, irrespective of which branch of Law one wants to profess, it is my sincere belief and advice that every law student must spend the first two-three years of his or her career practicing hardcore litigation.

     

    What were your areas of interest in the law? Did you engage in extracurricular activities while in college?

    During my college days my areas of interest were predominantly the Transfer of Property Act, Income Tax Act and a few other substantial laws (such as the Contract Act, Trust Act, Sales of Goods Act, and Negotiable Instrument Act). Somehow, I was not very inclined towards the constitution of criminal Laws. As mentioned above, in my opinion moot court competitions, mediation competitions and debates are extremely important both in terms of gaining knowledge and to get over stage phobia. I used to stand up and address the judge as well as counter the opponent quite comfortably, all of which assisted in my overall development.

     

    How must a law student decide on choosing his internships?  What criteria did you follow if any?

    As I stated earlier, during the initial days a student must try to do more of litigation and property Law and accordingly select law firms established in these practice areas. In my opinion, an understanding of these Laws builds a good foundation for the general practice of Law. However if a student is already decided and is highly focused on a specific branch of Law (such as IPR) then the student must select a law firm accordingly.

     

    Tell us about your internship experiences while at university. How did they aid your development?

    The concept of internship did not exist during my college / university days. What existed and what I did sign up for was articleship (a specialized training programme required to pursue the examination of solicitors). I for one had a wonderful experience during my articled days. I was fortunate to have not one but three brilliant seniors. The experience and exposure I received was unmatched and changed my entire perception towards how Law is understood, applied and practiced. During my articleship days there was no access to computers or search engines (life without which is unimaginable by many youngsters today). All research was based on the traditional style of referring to books and a physical library and most often but not self-interpretation. It helped us lawyers from those days to hone our research skills, develop our sense of interpretation and most of all gain an all-round knowledge on various topics of Law.

     

    What led you to gravitate towards Structuring and M&A practice? What opportunities may one find in this area?

    During 1990 private equities and IPOs did not exit much and as such the corporate world mostly comprised M&A activities. Structuring became a natural choice (and is now a hobby) considering the complex Laws, most of which keep changing from time to time and the fact that no single transaction can be considered  keeping in mind only one single statue. M&A transactions at all points require the analysation of various Laws. For instance issue of a convertible security must be analysed under the Companies Act, the FDI Policy, SEBI Regulations (for a listed company) and Income Tax Act and in certain cases special statutes such as the Banking Act, Insurance Act etc.

     

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    You were well placed after graduation with the then new Foreign Exchange laws coming in post 1991, an area you focus on. Having seen the law evolve and various sectors open up, how did this first-hand experience prove valuable?

    I am perhaps one of the few fortunate lawyers who saw the evolution of FDI from 1991 till date. Not only was I amongst those lawyers practicing the Law in 1991 but was also amongst those few who were then working in a corporate law firm. There has been a material shift from what Laws were in 1991 and what the FDI Laws are in 2016. One good aspect has been that during the past 25 years despite several Governments coming up no Government has reversed the FDI Policy. If at all, each Government has systematically liberalised the policy. The current Government has also been quite active and liberalised the policy significantly within the last 2 years. However, liberalisation at each stage has been well guarded and though one may find that there are still some restrictions, under the given economic situation of the country and the globe at large, personally I feel some of the restrictions and regulations are necessary in the interest of the nation.

    As for my personal experience, I have first hand witnessed the initiation and then the journey of FDI in this country. It has given me the advantage of knowing and understanding each stage of liberalisation. I have had the chance to follow why a certain sector was so heavily guarded and why certain sectors have slowly and gradually been liberalised together with the thought process for each change. All of this has made my journey as a lawyer very exciting.

     

    You have been ranked by Chambers and Partners and IFLR1000 as a leading lawyer for M&A in India. Could you tell our readers more about what this practice entails, for anyone who may be interested in taking it up?

    As stated earlier M&A is an interesting field of Law and one needs to have an overall 360 degrees view and knowledge of the various direct and ancillary Laws involved. For instance, in case of acquisition of a listed company by another listed company one needs to analyse the applicable provisions of the Companies Act, SEBI Takeover Regulations, Insider Trading Regulations, Listing Regulations, FDI Policy (in case there is a significant foreign shareholder) Competition Act, Income Tax Act, Stamp Act and in the event the target company is engaged in any specific sector (viz Banking, Insurance) then those specific statutes also need to be studied. Along with all of this, there is also always a complex grid of transaction documents to be drafted or reviewed. All of this needs proper synchronization amongst various service providers to ensure that both parties to the deal eventually get what they have bargained for.

     

    You founded a law firm that is doing very well today. What challenges do you think someone who wishes to start a firm or independent practice is likely to face? What would you advise them to do to mitigate such circumstances?

    The challenges faced by me when I started this law firm in November 1999 are different then what are faced by start-ups today. During 1990s, in a year only two or three new firms were registered or formed, while currently there are almost twelve to thirteen new law firms coming up each year. During 1990s, most founders /partners would usually have 10 to 15 years experience before starting their own firm; but of late I have seen that there are some of the law firm’s with partners having 5 to 7 years of experience. Some of the young law firms start out on the promise or assurance of a handful of clients and that is exactly where these law firms should be cautious, in as much as one cannot start the law firm on the strength of 4-5 clients promising some business. Also all clients at the end of the day expect quality work and at no cost should that be compromised on due to inexperience or the lack of a team.

     

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    Rajani Associates has consistently been ranked at the top in dealing with Asia-Pacific M&A. Has there been a specific push towards this sector and how have you remained the best?

    We are thankful that we continue to be ranked in the top in dealing with Asia-Pacific M&A. There is no specific push towards this sector. It is just that our work speaks for itself backed by the good wishes and recommendations of our clients and occasionally the counter parties in a transaction.

     

    As Managing Partner of the firm, what is an average day at work like? We would love to hear about the day-to-day responsibilities that need to be handled by someone in your position.

    I am usually in the office by 9:30 -9:45 a.m. and leave around 10:00 p.m., which is nearly 12 hours in the office. Though the Managing Partner, I still enjoy hands on work in any transaction, more particularly transactions that involve conceptualisation and structuring (whether Corporate or Litigation) and at times negotiations. During the day, in addition to working on some transactions, I also need to devote time to meet clients as well as discuss office related issues with the partners and occasionally also spend time with some associates. All of this goes towards grooming budding lawyers that are the future. No doubt there is a support staff, but there are occasions when some decisions do need my intervention. In addition to all this I enjoy speaking at Seminars (which requires me to spend more time reading and updating). And above all is the updates in Law. I spend my weekends reading the latest in Law, be it judgements or reforms in statutes or policies.

     

    What advice do you have for fresh graduates who are entering law firms as an associate? What can they be expected to be judged on?

    As I stated earlier, my advice to the fresh graduates is that they must spend at least the first two – three years in pursuing a litigation practice and amongst other substantial statutes they must read and understand Transfer Property Act, Sale of Goods Act, Trust Act etc. These mother Acts form the basic foundation of knowledge which sadly most of the young generation of lawyers are choosing to skip in the lure of directly studying and practicing the specialised statutes. Specialised statutes are very important but without the basic knowledge of substantial statues, young lawyers will find interpretation and drafting a legally enforceable document a bit challenging.

     

    Finally, what is your parting message for our readers?

    Unlike some of the other professions (Medical, Engineering, MBA) that have a high entry barrier requiring extensive hard work even before graduation, the legal profession has fewer entry barriers. Challenges for lawyers begin after they pass Law. The statutes keep changing from time to time, new judgements keep updating interpretations from time to time and more importantly one’s own ability to interpret Law develops from time to time. A lawyer is required to read and update himself or herself on a daily basis and throughout his or her professional career. A lawyer must have the passion for reading and must be open for different views or interpretations.

  • Abhijit Joshi, Founding Partner, Veritas Legal, Ex-AZB Senior Partner on starting up with Veritas

    Abhijit Joshi, Founding Partner, Veritas Legal, Ex-AZB Senior Partner on starting up with Veritas

    Abhijit Joshi is a founding partner of Veritas Legal, Advocates and Solicitors, and is also a qualified member of the Law Society of England and Wales. Abhijit graduated in Commerce and qualified in law from Mumbai University. Over the course of his career he has worked at Amarchand Mangaldas, Dua Associates and AZB Partners. In this interview he talks to us about:

    • How he selected law and his early career.
    • Criteria for selection of associates while recruiting.
    • His formative years as a lawyer and his time at Amarchand and AZB.
    • Veritas Legal and its rapid expansion as well as advice for our readers.

     

    How did you decide to pursue law as a career option? Were there other lawyers in your family?

    My father passed away very young and what is not untypical of Indian families all our properties went into disputes. As a result at a very young age (school days) unfortunately I had to interact with lawyers along with my mother. It probably had a counter effect, i.e. me not wanting to take up law! So while I studied law, I never intended to become a lawyer. After trying my hand at a few things, I realized that the unplanned training I got during my childhood, had probably made me more attuned towards the profession and ultimately I decided to pursue it as a career. There is no one in my family who was ever a lawyer and I was told that this might be a serious impediment. Needless to say, I realized that if you have merit and are willing to work hard, there are no real impediments.

     

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    Tell us about your schooling and college life before you graduated. Any fond memories or anecdotes that spring to mind that you would like to share with us?

    School days were great, but at the age of nine I lost one of my parents. It had an effect, but I coped well. I then went to Sydenham College for Commerce which was then a premier institution. There are lots of fond memories. I excelled at academics, I excelled at extra-curricular activities, I became the youngest chairperson of the Students Union. I found the love of my life, my wife. I probably learnt my early lessons on the importance of networking at the college.

     

    Were you always interested in corporate work? Did you have other areas of law that interested you? How did you ultimately choose your field of work?

    Corporate work has a buzz and I guess a lot of young minds would like to be associated with it. Even today, I see the same trend. I had planned nothing. I had applied to Mr. R. A. Shah at Crawford Bayley as he was the pioneer of international corporate work in those days. I was not accepted. I applied at AmarchandMangaldas and they were kind enough to take a risk on me. There were 5 to 6 lawyers in their Mumbai office in those days other than the family. I quickly realized that destiny had made the right choice for me.Amarchand was at the cutting edge of India’s economic evolution and I got to work on many of the firsts. For example, the first Euro issue, the first Cola war , etc. The firm’s orientation was towards corporate law and I eventually got interested in it and continue even today.

     

    How important is CGPA for a law student? While hiring, are you primarily looking at the academic record of the candidate or other areas like extra-curricular activities too?

    This is a good question. When you are judging a candidate by her resume, academics is going to form a lopsided part of consideration. However, I believe that in addition to academics other aspects of the personality of the candidate is what will give him/her the winning edge. I would assume that everyone is going to be hardworking, but it is important to know who has the “spark”. Personal interviews go a long way in getting a “gut” on the candidate. After having recruited for many, many years, it somehow comes to you within the first 5 minutes of the interview whether there is potential or not. But often this has not been fair to the candidate and this has to be validated by more scrutiny. For example, when you see extra-curricular activities, you see whether the candidate has all-round development. I would typically see what games the candidate has played. Is he a cricketer or is he a tennis player? In other words has he/she excelled at team games or individual games, is he/she a team player or a solo player.These are only aides, but I would admit that in a situation where there is not much to judge from, academics will have a very heavy weightage.

     

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    You started your career at Amarchand Mangaldas and moved on to Dua before joining AZB. How did your initial years in practice shape your outlook?

    My initial years shaped me. My senior Mr. Cyril Shroff has left a deep impression on my work and my style of work as that is what I observed very keenly and closely during my formative years.I remember he once told me to never close the right side of a chart when you are developing options because mentally when you close it, you will feel there are no other options and you will start thinking within the box. He taught me how sound knowledge of law needs to be applied with innovation in thinking. The initial years have left an imprint on me.

     

    You have been associated with AZB for a number of years – you started as one of their first partners before being made CEO of AZB. How do you look back on your time at AZB?

    AZB holds a special place in my life and career. I got to observe another giant, Zia Mody. Both at Amarchand and AZB , I was around in their initial days of evolution and therefore I had the privilege of working very closely with both Mr. Cyril Shroff and Ms. Zia Mody. We were around 11 to 15 people when I joined AZB (then known as CZM) and the sheer joy of growth and the adrenaline was unparalleled. Working with Zia and Bahram was delightful as not onlywere they good lawyers, but also great human beings. I look at AZB very fondly. It has shaped me.

     

    Less than a year ago, you left a comfortable job to start out on your own at Veritas Legal. What prompted this move and what role do you envisage for yourself at Veritas Legal?

    I can only quote Robert Frost as an answer to this question. “The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep.” I guess I enjoy the growth phase. I enjoy constructing. Both at Amarchand and AZB, I really enjoyed that portion of the journey. In the last decade of my career I guess I wanted to venture out and feel the excitement once again. My decision has nothing to do with any grievances about the past.It was all about the possibilities of the future. My role at Veritas Legal is dynamic at this stage. However, I do not intend to be around forever. Keeping this in mind, I did not use my name or surname in the firm name.This should never be an issue for senior talent aggregation. We have got very experienced resources. In time, I am sure they will step up and I will ease out. But before that, I would like to implement a lot of what I have learnt- what should be done and equally what should not be done. There are a lot of ideas that float in my mind. A lot of initiatives that I could not take up earlier. I intend to live each one of them. I see cultural integrity as a core part of the value system. I see value systems as the only cohesion at work place. I see that only these values will allow resources to flourish and bring excellence at their work. I hope that these will stay central to our growth and we will make all endeavors to see that these are not compromised at the altar of growth or success.

     

    How did large corporate deals come your way and what do you feel for your firm’s success?

    (In its relatively short period in existence, Veritas Legal has already completed around 27 transactions in the field of M&A and private equity. These include transactions for Recipharm in the acquisition of Nitin Lifesciences which is the second largest deal in India in the injectable space and Evonik acquisition of Monarch Catalyst.)

    We have more than 200 filings in various judicial fora. These have come from various sources and from all directions. I am more than pleased at the firm’s performance in the first year. But I take cognizance that the 2nd year will be more challenging than the first. We are determined to work hard and stay focused on our beliefs and hopefully better times will follow.

     

    Do you think the firm might perhaps be growing too fast or is hiring based on the amount of work you have to handle?

    (From having started with just two members, the firm has grown in strength to over 35 people with 25 lawyers in such a short period of time.)

    Yes, I think we have grown faster than we would have liked. However, we have not gone out and recruited anyone. The resources have been referred to us and we have recruited selectively. As matters kept coming, we kept increasing our strength to ensure that there is no burn in the system. Therefore, the growth is more a reflection of the thrust of the economy as opposed to a planned one. In fact, we have no numbers in mind. We have only quality in mind and whatever number is necessary to support the quality will be achieved.

     

    What do you expect from first year associates or interns from law school who wish to work for your firm?

    I do not have any eligibility criteria for interns. How do I put criteria on a student who is himself/herself discovering life? There are only basic attributes of hard work and inquisition. I love working with curious minds. I guess this is inherent and if the resource has it, it will show.

     

    Where do you see yourself and your firm ten years from now?

    Ten years is a long time. However, I hope that we are known for the job we do. We do not necessarily need to do everything, we do not necessarily have to be a size, but we necessarily have to be a happy place to work in and we necessarily have to be excellent at our work. I have a journey in mind with these values. The destination will reveal itself in good time.

     

    You are a member of the Law Society of England & Wales and qualified as a solicitor in England. How does one qualify as a solicitor in England and what advantages do you think it poses?

    Degree as such has a limited value. The knowledge you derive in gaining the degree is invaluable. Having a solicitor’s degree from England to my mind has limited value if you are practicing in India. It is not a “must have”, it is “good to have”.

     

    Finally, what is your parting advice for our readers?

    When I started my career, someone gave me a quote which went as under “Don’t learn the tricks of the trade – learn the trade”.I do not think that I can summarize my advice any better.

  • Gopal Sankaranarayanan, Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on building a career in litigation and on legal writing

    Gopal Sankaranarayanan, Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on building a career in litigation and on legal writing

    Gopal Sankaranarayanan is an advocate at the Supreme Court of India. He graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in the 2001 batch, immediately after that he went for a Masters in Criminology from the London School of Economics. A prolific writer in various journals and leading dailies, a co-founder of Care For Air, an independent, volunteer organization and a successful practitioner of law, Gopal speaks to about:

    • His college and university experiences.
    • Mooting – the culture and its importance.
    • Helping Bhutan draft its Constitution
    • Legal writing, research and his new project Care For Air.
    • His views on Section 498-A and his advice for being successful in both personal and professional spheres.

     

    Could you please introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a son, husband, father and friend. I am also an Advocate of the Supreme Court.

     

    You graduated from NLS Bangalore in 2001. How was preparation for the entrance exam like then?

    The entrance exam in the mid-90s was very different from what it is now. There were fewer candidates taking it then – a few thousand or so – and the questions were fairly straightforward Math, English, GK, Logic and Legal Reasoning. With time, they have become more complex, and with the advent of the CLAT, fairly random, inconsistent and thoughtless, which is why I am helping my friend Prof. Shamnad Basheer in his challenge to its arbitrary nature which is pending in the Supreme Court.

    Preparation for me when I took the exam was interesting. I took it twice, in fact. The first time in 1995 with less interest, a week after a teenage romantic heartbreak and which led me on to the NLS waiting list and then St.Joseph’s College in Bangalore for a year. That was probably my best year of College – I travelled the country for literary fests, I bunked classes to have beer at Brigade Road and investigated kabab roll joints across the city.

    The second time the following year I spent a week reading that godforsaken Competition Success Review and flipped through the equally mammoth Manorama Yearbook to figure out who had won the Padma Vibhushans and to understand what GATT was. It didn’t help. But what did was the fact that a friend was in NLS and she gave me a few ideas, most important being to finish all the questions. I weaselled my way in, though if the faculty had any idea, they would have nipped it in the bud!

     

    How was your time at NLS – could you share your experience with us?

    My time at NLS was a lot like life. It was a microcosm of India – girls and boys from across the country from a variety of backgrounds all thrown into this melting pot– there was competition, pettiness, talent, imagination and insecurity. I tried my best not to change who I was (which wasn’t a great idea because I have a prickly personality!). As a result, I tried everything, giving academics the least priority. I played a lot of sports, and was most partial to Cricket and Hockey. I mooted nationally and internationally, helped co-found and convene our annual fest LeGala led by the wonderful Meghana Abraham, participated in literary and cultural events across the country from all the IITs to BITS Pilani’s unparalleled Oasis, sat in dive bars in Nagarbhavi, did all-nighters with cigarettes and dumb charades, danced and sang, choreographed fashion shows, and loved my internships with K.K.Venugopal, Zia Mody and Karanjawala. Subject wise, I fell in love with Constitutional and criminal law and fortunately, that affair continues.

    I made some very dear friends at NLS – many for life, and I am happy that their interactions have made me richer, while not necessarily enriching them! One of those collegemates now shares her life with me, though she claims she barely noticed me then.

    On the flip side, I had my share of controversy and run-ins with the faculty, a few of whom completely lacked the emotional maturity to deal with young people. There were others, like Prof.N.L.Mitra who probably saw some potential in my rebellious streak, and when I objected to the undemocratic manner of NLS student elections, he allowed me to form a Committee to revise our Constitution. That effort thankfully bore fruit largely due to the efforts of P.M.Thimmaiah and Nandan Kamath.

    In my entire tenure at NLS, there were very few members of the faculty who really had what it took both academically and emotionally – A.K.Rai and V.S.Mallar were the exceptions, and the blame for this lies at the doors of a series of Vice Chancellors who were insecure and lacked the imagination to encourage young academics to truly flourish.

     

    You did your Masters in Criminology in the London School of Economics. Tell us a little about your time there.

    I guess the fact that I didn’t seem like a nerd appealed to LSE when I applied seeking to enlarge my passion for theoretical criminology. At the time, LSE was still a part of the University of London and we had multiple faculty across King’s, UCL and SOAS taking a single subject. I knew Nicky Lacey was at LSE, and that’s why I applied, but to have the erudite Robert Reiner and the accomplished Ben Bowling (now Deputy Dean at King’s) teaching us about feminist theory, stop-and-search and media manipulation was fantastic. The rigour they expected and the inputs we got from international students made the subjects so much more attractive. As we could opt for a non-specialized subject as well, I chose International Law of Armed Conflict & Use of Force, which was helmed by Prof.Christopher Greenwood (now a judge at the ICJ). Greenwood to me sums up everything a Professor ought to be – charming, informed, witty, humble and extremely disciplined. While he taught us, he was also a Queen’s Counsel, advising the British Government on the invasion of Iraq (this was shortly after the September 11 attacks), editing the ILRs (with Lauterpacht Jr.), churning out a series of articles in the top International journals, appearing before the ICJ and also taking 4 other courses on law. Teaching one course at the Masters level can be exhausting – to do all this is superhuman. Along with Greenwood, giants like Christine Chinkin and Rein Mullerson (Gorbachev’s former Advisor) brought into sharp perspective the practical real-life experience that is so necessary for a good academic. I could probably bore you to death about how the approach of teachers in the UK ought to be emulated here – so that they give you some respect and treat you as equals, or at least sentient beings.

    Apart from the classes, which after a long while, I truly enjoyed, I also played Hockey for LSE’s First XI team, and won medals for the Universities League and Championship that year. We trained under the shadow of the iconic Battersea power station and I will never forget freezing my butt off while running around on this Pink Floyd pitch.

     

    What is the value addition of a Masters in your career?

    I think if you are curious and you like to learn, you should always step beyond our shores to try and experience that world. For me, my Masters was always just going to be knowledge for the sake of it, as I had no plans of working in London and was coming back to practice. I have almost never used the actual lessons or the subject matter of what I was taught in my practise, but the tools of research, of pithy presentation, of verification of sources, of comparison, of context I apply on a daily basis.

     

    What has been the role of sport in your college days and thereafter? What role do you think sport plays in getting a postgraduate seat?

    I was and continue to be passionate about sports. I still play tennis, badminton, basketball and golf as time permits, and whenever Amit Sharma remembers, I will turn out for a day-night cricket match! As the great American broadcaster Heywood Broun said – “Sport doesn’t build character. It reveals it.” If you allow it, it can be the most defining aspect of who you are. Sport has taught me passion, camaraderie, leadership, sharing and loyalty. It has given me perspective about everything else I do because it is so inclusive and rewarding. You don’t have to play it, you don’t have to be good at it, you don’t even need to understand it to actually be moved to tears when something great happens. I haven’t seen anybody crying enraptured by a great argument in court or a wonderful contract clause. If I were unwell, I would probably skip Court, but I have stepped onto a cricket field with one hand in a cast, and shared a 45 run partnership for the last wicket with Siddharth Agarwal, who now knocks it out of the park in Delhi’s criminal courts.

    During my years as a lawyer, I have been happy to see the seniors at the bar readily reach for their cheque books when I approached them to donate for Shiva Keshavan’s luge at the last Winter Olympics, and my own recent experience as Secretary of the Lodha Committee has been very rewarding in helping formulate policy at the highest levels of one of the world’s most watched sports.

    As far as your applications question is concerned, I can imagine sport playing a big role if you apply to Universities that have strong sports agendas (Duke, Michigan, etc.) or if the evaluator is partial to sport. But if you are unfortunate to have your exquisite essay read by a serial academic topper who frowned at such frivolities, you are up the creek without a paddle.

     

    What are some of the important observations you have found regarding the moot culture in India in recent years, when you have acted in the capacity of judge?

    I have had varying experiences. I know it’s very tough to know what to prioritize before which judge – some prefer citations, some (like me) love to go into the facts and work the angles, others just want to show how much they know. There are, however, 3 basic things I tell mooters –

    (1) Dont interrupt the judge, but please don’t be obsequious;

    (2) Stick the moot problem on your bedroom door and read it a hundred times – it always throws up something new;

    (3) Use real life examples to illustrate your point and make it simpler to understand (this is actually the Mukul Rohatgi staple!)

     

    What role do you think mooting should play in a law student’s life?

    I think it has its place. It shouldn’t be an overarching priority because there is so much else on offer in your 3 or 5 years at college. For most young people, this is your last free stretch before responsibilities overtake you. If you can, enjoy it by doing other stuff and meeting new people. This might be the time to walk over and talk to that girl or guy who sits quietly in the second last row without interacting with anybody. Go over, have a coffee together and figure out what makes them tick. Not as a social experiment, but just because it is what humans ought to do.

     

    Will you give us a brief recount of the time you helped the Kingdom of Bhutan draft their Constitution?

    This really happened by chance. I was in the Chambers of K.K.Venugopal, Sr.Advocate [KKV] and he was approached by the erstwhile King of Bhutan, Jigme Singye Wangchuk to advice on a Constitution. He is quite a forward thinking man, and as a monarch, realized that a Constitutional set-up would be a progressive one. There were many interactions with the Law Minister and the Chief Justice of Bhutan, accompanied by their advisors. Their initial draft was a mish-mash of the UDHR, the ICCPR, the US and Indian Constitutions. KKV spent hours reworking it while I researched the areas that required special attention and suggested alterations where necessary. This was not an easy task for two reasons: One, it required me to fully understand the development of South Asian constitutional law, and Two, KKV almost always asked me questions to which I had no answer! Eventually, the Constitution came into force, with KKV playing the role of Bhutan’s Ambedkar and B.N.Rau rolled into one, while I visited Thimphu in 2008 and sat in their Parliament watching their most polite legislative proceedings.

     

    You have several publications to your credit. Tell us a little about writing legal articles and research in a lawyer’s career.

    Research is compulsory. Articles are voluntary. Just as with moots, I spend several hours reading caselaw, online articles and books to come to terms with a legal point. If it is a considerable one which I believe the public would like to know about, or an anomaly, or something which is just patently unfair, then I feel compelled to publish. I write from the heart, and I know that often candour is unappreciated, but it also corrects an incorrect impression that people may have. I believe legal writing should be so exhaustively researched that there can be no doubt that it is original and that also there is something novel to say. Also, anyone interested in writing should attempt to have their work spread across multiple publications so that there is no suspicion of nepotism or partiality.

     

    Is there any habit or skill you picked up over the years that you believe is critical to a lawyer’s success?

    Integrity. If you try to mislead the court or try pulling a fast one on a colleague, the ephemeral pleasure will ruin your reputation for life. Before you know it, judges and lawyers put you down as someone whose word cannot be trusted, and their displeasure starts dampening your performance. While hard work and application are important, they are meaningless without the respect of others.

     

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    Tell us a bit about your love for Constitutional law and work experience.

    As I mentioned earlier, this was something born out of some invigorating classroom discussions we had in Law School with Profs. Mallar and Vijayakumar.

    When I came into practise, I started assisting KKV in some Constitution Bench cases and I realized how much reading it involved. A turning point came when Mr.Fali Nariman, after seeing me assist KKV in a matter recommended me as his junior counsel for the 9-Judge Constitution Bench hearing the scope of the Ninth Schedule [I.R.Coelho]. I was overwhelmed by his generousity, and later by the fact that preparing for it meant I had to read Golak Nath and Kesavananda cover to cover! It was a brief 5 day hearing under the strict gaze of Chief Justice Sabharwal, and we subsequently succeeded, but even if we hadn’t, it was a personal achievement – to spend hours brainstorming critical aspects of our Constitution’s fundamentals and then to assist one of our finest minds in putting it across.

    Subsequently, I spent 4 continuous months on the reservation challenge in Ashoka Kumar Thakur and learnt that nothing about Constitutional law is easy or brief. It requires rigour and reading, and while it takes time for an opportunity to come your way, it invariably will. I was thus fortunate to address the Constitution Bench concerning the postponement of reportage [Sahara v. SEBI] and to successfully challenge Section 6-A of the Act setting up the CBI [Subramaniam Swamy]. Recently, my arguments on vagueness and liberty were accepted by the Bench that heard the challenges to Section 66-A of the IT Act [Shreya Singhal] and also struck down Section 118-d of the Kerala Police Act.

    At NLS, we were taught one trimester by the late Justice A.M.Bhattacharjee, whose unique grasp of the subject is best reflected in his book “Equality, Liberty & Property” [now out of print]. I remembered his Chapter on Privacy when we were doing the AADHAR case earlier last year, and it was this little bit of stray reading which allowed us to have the case referred to the Constitution Bench, doubting the correctness of how Kharak Singh had been followed. So, you never know when a little extra can come to aid!

    Outside of its use in the Courts, I was always fascinated that while the Constitution was our most important textual document, we had little general knowledge about it. How many Indian homes have a Constitution? But many have the Gita, Bible or Koran. The more I realized how Indian courts have made the Constitution such a dynamic instrument of social change, I felt something needs to be done to increase its reach. An early suggestion to Sumeet Malik from the Eastern Book Company to have a coat pocket edition of the Constitution bore fruit, and the slim leatherbound volume of which I am the proud editor is now in its ninth edition. It is an endeavour to have it in every home soon – our entire Indian cricket team have personal copies and this was what was presented by the President to Arvind Kejriwal when he visited him on the occasion of his election last year.

    I also conceived of an Oral History project which was implemented by Rainmaker, where we conduct and upload free on YouTube hour-long video interviews with the doyens of the legal profession so that those who might otherwise not have a chance to interact might have access to their lives. Soli Sorabjee, Iqbal Chagla, Harish Salve, Gopal Subramaniam, Ashok Desai, Raju Ramachandran, Goolam Vahanvati, and several dozen more have shared their life stories.

    Things like this, apart from actually arguing in court, are way more fulfilling, as they allow your countrymen to slowly become aware of their Constitution and their rights.

     

    What are your views on Section 498-A and the realities of its application?

    I think, much as the Supreme Court itself has, that this provision is being abused often. In some States there are police advisories not to automatically arrest the accused in such cases and to be cautious. Marital discord is usually irreparable once you reach this stage, and the deepset rancour coupled with the lethargy of our judicial process eventually leaves the victim (husband or wife) with no way out of an unhappy situation. Based on my Note, the Supreme Court recently laid down guidelines in Arnesh Kumar, but I don’t know how it is being implemented in the respective States.

     

    How do you manage your professional life and personal life? Do you keep both separate?

    Actually, I don’t. I am thankful that my wife Haripriya Padmanabhan (also a Supreme Court advocate) is such an excellent multi-tasker – she does her Court work (much better and more thoroughly than me), she manages our three kids, she cooks wonderfully and she discharges her role as the Secretary of the school PTA, so that all I really have to manage is my own practise!

    One of the things Haripriya and I agree on is that family is more important than anything. Thus, we have our office a mile away from home so we can be close to the kids, but we don’t work on anything together. We have our distinct practise areas (she is more into commercial litigation, education and civil law) and we never discuss law at home. Our work grants us the flexibility to be home with the children during the day and when there is pressing work, we work into the night after they sleep.

    It’s not easy, especially when you come into Delhi from outside and you don’t have grandparents around, but with patience, luck and friendship, you will always find a way.

     

    What do you do in your free time? Have you continued activities related to literary and debating (as you were given awards for the same in college)?

    I love films, books and music. The arts have always been my weakness and I collect what I love. Travelling Wilburys, Billie Holliday, Sam Cooke, Guru Dutt, Stanley Kubrick, Wong Kar Wai, Watchmen, Sandman – I love them all.

    Recently, a more grim issue has taken up my time – air pollution. It is something that is slowly enveloping our cities and making India unliveable, particularly affecting the very young, the pregnant and elders. A few of us have founded Care For Air, [www.careforair.org] an organisation aimed at raising awareness about the problems and solutions regarding the toxic air. We make presentations to school and residential communities and continue to spread the message.

    L&D-wise, one of the things I do on an annual basis is to host MyLaw’s A Question of Law, a quiz on law for lawyers, law students and the general public on Law Day (November 26th). Its light hearted and fun, which is evident from it being conducted at Monkey Bar! We just finished 5 years of that, and it is a lot of fun with several hundred participants and regular rounds of tequila shots.

     

    Do you have any parting advice for all our readers out there?

    Just one: tomorrow, you could be hit by a truck, so don’t keep worrying about your majestic long-term goal. Keep small workable milestones which have nothing to do with your peers and where they have reached in their lives. Make time for sport or music or painting or language or whatever you enjoy. Try and travel, even to small places nearby. Don’t let work come in the way of your important relationship moments (weddings, birthdays, anniversaries, even funerals). If you have a partner or a child, try and be there for his or her doctor’s appointments or school performances or shows. When you’re 55 with an empty nest, you won’t remember which case you were arguing when your daughter was winning the relay.

    As the windows of Chartres Cathedral will tell you, as long as we are on the shoulders of the giants who came before, we will always be okay.

  • Vaishnavi Bhaskaran, Partner, Spectrum Legal, on advising startups and Corporate Law

    Vaishnavi Bhaskaran, Partner, Spectrum Legal, on advising startups and Corporate Law

    Vaishnavi Bhaskaran graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2010. She is currently a partner at Spectrum Legal where she heads the Corporate-Commercial and Employment Law Practice. In this interview, she talks to us about:

    • Her experience at NLU, Jodhpur and decision to pursue law
    • Her view on internships and augmenting a CV
    • Her professional journey and founding ‘The Little Black Coat’
    • Spectrum Legal and her views on the field of law in the contemporary context

     

    What incident, influence or interest prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what other options would you have considered for a career?

    I have wanted to be a lawyer since the beginning of my teenage years. The idea (somewhat clichéd) first came to me after I had read a series of John Grisham novels in quick succession. Of course, the reality is vastly different from what one reads about, and I realised that soon after I entered law school. Fortunately for me however, the reality was not unpleasant. I had briefly toyed with the idea of journalism, but in the end, it was to be law.

     

    What would you like to say about your experience with college admissions and competitive exams?

    I was very clear that I wanted to attend one of the top-ranked national law schools, and I was very fortunate to have found a place at NLU Jodhpur.

     

    How would you describe your life while studying at NLU Jodhpur? What activities did you tend to favor?

    My time at NLU was undoubtedly one of the best periods of my life, and has gone a long way in shaping me, both as a professional and as a person. While at NLU, I had a clear vision of what I wanted to do once I graduated, and I focussed on doing things that would get me closer to my goal. I tended to focus on subjects that I thought would help me once I started practising, and pursued internships that would further my goals.

     

    Were you always clear on corporate-commercial law as your field of expertise or were you drawn towards it while studying there?

    It was after my very first litigation internship that I realised that litigation wasn’t my calling. Like most law students who start off thinking they will graduate and pursue litigation, I did initially pursue a couple of litigation internships. After I completed my second year however, I found an internship opportunity where I was given both litigation and non-litigation related work, which is when I realised that I wanted to be a corporate lawyer. Subsequently, I chose to pursue the corporate law honours course that NLU offers, in my fourth and fifth years.

     

    Beyond academic experience what would augment CVs of law students and make them better candidates for the same?

    Obviously, being from a good university and having a good GPA will more often than not, help you secure a good job in the legal field. However, even internships can open up doors in most organisations, if one is found to be hardworking, resourceful, knowledgeable and eager to learn.

     

    What kind of internships would you recommend law students opt for to start building the sort of versatility and widened range of law that you are well versed with today?

    Most small to medium law firms in Bangalore do not have the precise demarcations when it comes to areas of practice, as many larger firms do, and as a result, most lawyers tend to have wide exposure within the broader boundaries of their chosen specialisation.

    In my experience, interning with small and medium size firms provides interns an opportunity to learn a wider range of subjects.

     

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    Krishnamurthy & Co. (K Law), an established corporate commercial law firm, was your first placement directly after college. How did your experience there help you add to your understanding and practice of law in India?

    Immensely. In my opinion, K Law is an excellent place to start one’s career. During my time there, I worked on a very wide variety of issues and was very fortunate to have been given a high degree of responsibility at a relatively early age. Both these factors were instrumental in helping me start Spectrum Legal.

     

    What prompted your shift from K Law to Poovayya & Co., Advocates & Solicitors in 2011?

    At that point, I was keen to acquire more exposure and see how other firms functioned. I had interned with Poovayya & Co. previously, and had found the experience very rewarding and enjoyable.

     

    What went into founding The Little Black Coat in 2013? What were your motivations for the same and how did it affect your perspective on legal startups?

    Even while I was in law school, it remained my ultimate objective to set up my own law firm. At the time when I took the decision to go independent, the startup ecosystem in Bangalore was booming, and it was only a matter of time before they all needed lawyers.

     

    What did you learn from your experience with startups while running The Little Black Coat?

    Working with startups is a completely different experience from working with bigger and more established entities. Established companies tend to be business savvy and typically require only legal advice. Working with startups however, requires you to do a great deal of handholding and walking them through business and financial issues, in addition to providing them with legal counsel.

     

    Tell us what drove you to set up Spectrum Legal with Chinnappa and Co.

    By that point I had developed a small client base, and while being an independent practitioner was extremely satisfying, it is also limiting because you cannot service your clients’ needs beyond your area of practice. Additionally, being only one person, you also face issues because of a lack of bandwidth. At that point, setting up a law firm seemed the natural and logical step, and when I met my partners, I found the team a good fit to take that step with.

     

    What was the motivation behind creating a law firm that aims to provide all types of legal services across different fields of law in the same firm?

    Like I said above, when you practise only one area of law, it can become difficult to service a client in a complete manner. A full-service law firm brings with it a unique synergy and the ability to meet all the legal needs of a client in-house, which was the motivation in creating a firm that provide a broad spectrum of legal services.

     

    Working for a firm, corporates especially, is generally seen as a time intensive lifestyle which leaves little room for much else. How true would you say this is from your own experience?

    There is a great deal of truth in that. Law is indeed a time-intensive profession, but so are most careers these days. In order to succeed, one must be prepared to put in the hard work. Having said that, I think as one becomes older and more senior, there comes a time when an individual can decide what his or her priorities are, and accordingly devise a schedule in keeping up with those priorities.

     

    What are your thoughts on the traditional ideas of specialization in singular core areas of law as opposed to the contemporarily broader approach to a wider field of law with multiple specialties?

    In my opinion, this is a result of the market where clients are faced with multiple legal issues. When it comes to law, most of the learning happens while one is working, and as such, a specialisation develops when one has been working for a while. I personally prefer a wider area of functioning, as I find this variety exciting and challenging.

     

    What would be your parting message to the readers?

    Before you graduate, and during the initial stage of your career, the choices one is faced with and the possibilities can be overwhelming. However, you’re in for the long haul, and it’s imperative to never lose the joy that comes from practising law. Initially, one’s focus should be solely to learn and attempt to master one’s field, everything else will follow at its own pace.

  • Puneet Bansal, Managing Partner, Nitya Tax Associates, on being a CA + Lawyer and practice in Indirect Taxes

    Puneet Bansal, Managing Partner, Nitya Tax Associates, on being a CA + Lawyer and practice in Indirect Taxes

    Puneet Bansal graduated in B. Com. from Hansraj College, Delhi University in 1998 and thereafter he acquired an LL.B degree in 2007 by eking out time for the evening classes of Campus Law Centre of Delhi University. Over the course of his highly successful career he has worked as a Partner at Lakshmi Kumaran & Sridharan as well as BMR Associates. He is at present a Managing Partner at Nitya Tax Associates.

    In this interview he tells us about:

    • Chartered Accountancy – his time in college, the contours of the course and tips to ace the entrance exam.
    • The work in an advisory practice, his law degree and experiences as a Partner at two firms.
    • The importance and convergence of law and taxation, advice for Tax Law enthusiasts, his views on the GST and setting up Nitya Tax Associates.

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Please tell us about your family and childhood.

    I was born and brought-up in a middle class family. My father is a business man and mother is a house maker. Being in a middle class household, my upbringing was normal. I was a pretty average student till Class X.

     

    Were you always clear about your career plans considering you pursued commerce in senior secondary and went on to graduate from Hansraj College, Delhi University in B.Com?

    Never. I choose Commerce in Class XI as I was not interested in Science and Arts. It was in Class XI that I developed an interest in studies and started doing well. Since my marks in Class XII were good, I joined Hansraj College. I didn’t have any career plan till then.

     

    How did you manage college with your CA preparations?

    One of my uncles filled the Chartered Accountancy form and that’s how I started doing CA. Indeed, CA used to be a tough course earlier as well. I used to go to college in the first half and come back to the CA firm in the second half when I was interning. It was a tough 3 years of managing both studies and internships.

     

    Please tell us about your CA Articleship. What was the application procedure? How competitive was it to secure an Articleship? What was the work assigned to you?

    I did an internship in a medium-size CA firm. My senior in the CA firm was a family friend so I got the internship with ease. I did accounting, company law and Income tax related work during the internship. Importantly, I was not at all exposed to indirect taxes during my internship which is my area of profession now. The period of my internship was a thorough enjoyment and was my first chance to peek into the professional services space.

     

    You graduated from Hansraj College in 1998 and finished your CA course in 1999 with an All India Rank. Please enlighten our readers with some valuable tips to ace the CA examinations.

    I cleared all CA exams in the first go and was the All India 27th rank holder in the CA final. I have followed one rule for preparation for CA exams, and in fact, now as well when I am practicing on my own I abide by it and that is ‘whatever you do, do with passion and then everything will fall in place. Otherwise do not do it’. I was always interested in understanding concepts rather than clearing exams. The conceptual clarity in all the CA final subjects only helped me in clearing the exams.

     

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    Our readers would like to know about your initial days as a CA professional. Could you share with us any interesting anecdotes?

    When I became a CA, I thought that life henceforth would be easy. But I was confronted with reality soon and realized clearing CA is the start of struggles in one’s professional career. Clearing the CA exam only opens the gates to the professional world. At each stage of our professional lives, we need to prove ourselves with hard work and competence.

     

    Was it difficult for you to shift to a new place of work, which was primarily a law firm? Please tell us about your work experience at L&S.

    (Puneet joined Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan in 2003 as a Chartered Accountant in their indirect tax litigation practice.)

    Indeed. I was working in Maruti Udyog and suddenly decided to shift to L&S. My family was stunned and couldn’t understand my decision. Also, the decision to shift from an Industry to a Law firm was a big change in my career. Working at L&S was a great experience. It was a close knit family environment comprised of competent professionals. Initially I did litigation, and later, set up their advisory practice. It was 9 years well spent in my career.

     

    In 2004, you joined Delhi University to pursue law. What was the driving force behind this decision?

    As I was working in L&S and wanted to make a career in litigation, I decided to do law. The admission procedure at the Delhi University required clearance of an entrance test. Clearing the entrance test was not tough.

     

    Please tell us about your law school days. Did you participate in any student activities? How active were you in other college activities?

    I did law from the Campus Law Centre, Delhi University evening batch, so I used to attend the classes and write the exams. As I was working full time in L&S, I didn’t participate in student or college activities during my law school days.

     

    How helpful was your law degree in terms of the added legal perspective to your existing knowledge? What career advantages did it bring?

    (Puneet qualified in Law in 2007, after that he continued with L&S.)

    The law degree really helped in giving me perspectives on the Indian Constitution and various other Commercial laws. I would recommend it as a “must do” if one needs to practice tax. Further, the law degree opens an opportunity for you to appear in the High Court and Supreme Court.

     

    What work does advisory practice include? What were the added responsibilities as a partner of one of the leading firm in indirect taxes?

    (After establishing the advisory practice of L&S, Puneet headed this team as a partner from 2010 to 2012.)

    The advisory practice involved advising clients on Indirect Tax issues involving legal interpretation, structuring business models etc. As a Partner of a large law firm, I was responsible for advising leading corporates of India. I also had the responsibility of managing a team of 10 – 12 professionals.

     

    Please share with us your work experience at BMR.

    (In 2012, Puneet joined BMR & Associates LLP as a partner.)

    My professional journey wouldn’t have been complete without joining BMR. It was a totally different way of practicing when compared to a law firm. The advisory practice was more focused on bringing legal, practical and implementable solution for clients. Furthermore, I really liked the professional practices in BMR. Overall, it was a great experience.

     

    How important is taxation as a subject for law students? What advice would you give our readers to consider taxation as an area of practice?

    Taxation is a very important subject for law students especially if one is focused on commercial laws. Taxation plays a key role in business transactions and has the effect of making and breaking the business. The current times are most exciting times for tax professionals with so many things coming up or growing up, be it GST, Transfer Pricing, International Taxation etc. This is right time to be in the taxation field.

     

    What issues did you face while setting up Nitya Tax Associate? Our readers would love to know about the significance of “Nitya” in the firm’s name.

    (Puneet recently founded an independent indirect tax boutique “Nitya Tax Associates” at New Delhi.)

    The decision to start Nitya was an attempt to create something on our known outside a framework of large firm. In professional services firm, only two things are important – clients and people. Some of the leading corporates have reposed faith in us and the going has been good till now. There were initial challenges on getting good people but now, we have a good team.

    The name ‘Nitya’ has its origination in the Sanskrit word and stands for ‘continuity’ / ‘eternity’. The name is a reflection of our belief and commitment to be available to our clients.

     

    Please introduce us to your team. What plans do you have to take forward Nitya Tax Associates, in terms of workforce as well as setting up branches in other major cities of India?

    We have a good team with some members with experience ranging from five to eight years. Kulraj Ashpnani, Deepak Suneja and Gaurav Narula have worked in large and reputed professional services firms. As of today, we are twelve professionals -a mix of Accountants and Lawyers. As of now, our focus is on NCR though we continue to cater to clients in other parts of India. For the next one, two, years, we plan to operate from Delhi and to strengthen our foothold first.

     

    What are your views about the upcoming GST regime?

    The GST will significantly simplify the indirect tax regime. During the first few years, it will open a floodgate of opportunities for professionals be it accountants or lawyers.

     

    What are the preferred legal issues you like to work on? Do you have any hobbies that help you unwind after a long day at work?

    Working on complex Indirect Tax issues for large manufacturing clients is my favorite as of now. I also enjoy doing litigation. Spending time with my kids and watching Hindi movies really helps me unwind.

     

    What would be your parting message for our readers?

    It does not matter what career you choose, but whatever you choose, do it in the most exemplary way and then everything will fall in place. Success is not a destination; it is a never-ending journey.