Super Lawyer

Tag: NLSIU

  • Swati Dalmia, Senior Associate, Fox Mandal, on being a Company Secretary, and her diverse experience

    Swati Dalmia, Senior Associate, Fox Mandal, on being a Company Secretary, and her diverse experience

    Swati Dalmia graduated in law from Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies, in 2009. She then went on to pursue her Masters from NLSIU, Bangalore, with a specialisation in Business Law. She is also a certified Company Secretary. Swati has been working with Fox & Mandal, Kolkata, since November 2009.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Being a Company Secretary
    • Her role at Fox & Mandal
    • Her experience thus far

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I believe in the dignity of labour. There is dignity in every job. And if anyone disagrees with me, I don’t even understand it. I do my job with a lot of effort, with all the right means. I am passionate and totally committed to my work. It’s been almost seven years in this profession and the journey has been quite fascinating, enriching and fun-filled; while working at Fox Mandal along with my seniors and colleagues.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    If I would be allowed to say so, then with all modesty, I would admit more than me having to choose law, it chose me. Law enthralled me, embraced me, and gave me a vision. Studying law and practising law is not the same. Various people study many subjects but practise what they love doing most. When I ventured into this world of law I was mesmerised with its vastness. Post my board exams I wanted to move out of my hometown and started exploring opportunities, looking for courses and colleges, and then settled for studying law. Today, I’m happy about choosing this subject.

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    Success is peripheral to hard work. If we work hard with the right attitude, seek knowledge at any and every given point of our lives, we shall surely be successful. There are no set standards to succeed, to each is his own. In our academic life we seek success by getting more marks but that does not ensure the making of a good lawyer. Yes, it does make you a good student; grades are very important since it is the most focused tool to measure one’s success rate. The hard work academically bears fruits when it is time to be selected among the lot, good grades give you accessibility to a better platform. It is more important to be a consistent performer and thrive to attain more with an undying quest for learning. There is a huge difference in being a good scholar and a real player in the industry.

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    My law school days were just fantastic, the best days of my life. It was an ocean engulfing me; there was so much activity all around me. I wanted to do it all. I maximized my time in a productive way, was very active as a student, and I loved being that way. I tried to excel in academics, participated in several moot court competitions, debates, seminars, client counselling sessions, research papers, etc. I pursued the company secretary course along with law and finished it even before graduating as a lawyer. I still remember the most stressful part of my law school days was writing my ninth semesters and then just after a gap of three days sitting for my CS Final exams. It was then that I realized how friends and family help you achieve your goals.

    I think I was quite enthusiastic and wanted to do everything possible which also included not missing a single party happening around me! Yes, I enjoyed myself and made friends for life.    

    What are the subjects that you took particular interest in during your law school days?

    Every student is exposed to all subjects in law. The curriculum is almost the same everywhere. Torts and contracts are the basic foundation and the most interesting subjects possible. But since I took up the company secretary course and later pursued Masters in Business Law, I think, as a fresher, I was at considerable ease (in comparison to other statutes) while working on the companies act and its allied statutes.

    But I strongly feel that law school days are the time to explore academically and not to decide upon your career option. One has to make a choice and may go with the flow and his instincts but the ultimate decision comes when one joins the industry and starts practising.

     

    In your opinion, what are the law school-centric activities that you would recommend as necessary experiences for every law student? 

    Read, read, and then read some more. Law school activities provide students an energetic and competitive platform to increase their knowledge and work on their oratory skills. Also, unconsciously, one develops the skill of working in a team.

    Any and all activities which we undertake make us a better human being, since we learn to rejoice our success and also handle failures with grace. It may not be an indication to whether one shall become a successful advocate or not, but it is surely important in shaping one’s law school days. Otherwise, as a student, life gets boring and mundane. I think as a student I wanted to do everything apart from writing an exam (which was compulsory). My most memorable days were winning and being appreciated for my mooting skills, and the cherry on the cake was when we won a debate competition related to child rights organized by Legal Assistance Forum.     

     

    Tell us about your experiences as intern at S. Jalan & Company, Kolkata as well as Fox & Mandal, Bangalore.

    I was fortunate enough to get these opportunities both at S. Jalan and Fox Mandal. My internship at these places certainly played a role because it helped prospective employers to know about me as a worker and also as a person. I personally feel, as an intern (also as a fresher), my seniors never expected me to do everything correctly but what was more important is my attitude towards my assignments. There has to be a balanced enthusiasm to take up work and try to finish it within timelines.

    My advice would be never to seek an internship only for the purpose of holding a certificate. It would do more damage than by choosing simply not to do it. It you are interning at a firm, then reach out to the associates and seniors and ask for work and get back to them after completing it. One should try to research well and push information in the simplest way possible (without relying on Wikipedia).

     

    What are the challenges that one needs to prepare himself/herself for when they step out of the comfort of a law school and into the real working world?

    The first and foremost challenge is to be in working mode for ten continuous hours every day. There are no official breaks in between and the offices do not stop working at 4 PM. The next thing I feel is acclimatizing to a new place and getting yourself familiar with your colleagues and seniors. It is a transition process from a caterpillar to a butterfly. It is a new beginning when you leave an impression on others (who may be colleagues, seniors, partners or clients); so be focused, dedicated and disciplined.    

     

    What are your areas of specialisation in law? 

    I feel my senior Orijit Chatterjee at Fox Mandal (my mentor) has been very kind to me when it comes to my understanding of specialisation. When I was a complete novice and had no understanding of work which generally takes place in a full-service law firm, he just held my hand and very patiently brought out the best in me. I strongly feel my mentor has played a very important role in shaping my career.

    Initially, I tried developing my skills in general corporate, advisory and transactional work because those were the kinds of work which were assigned to me. But he never stopped there. He introduced me to a plethora of work and made me work on diverse matters under strict deadlines. Honestly, I quite enjoyed it. It was challenging and satisfying. He strongly believes in a theory and told me one day “you are hardly an advocate if you don’t practise in courts because that is the place where the real interpretation takes place”. These words still resonate in my ears and I feel it so true. He introduced me to litigation and since the last three years I have been actively involved in dispute resolution practice and today I am experienced with a 360 degree overview of a corporate transaction which takes place, from a non-binding term sheet to the enforcement of exit clause.

     

    Tell us about your current work profile with Fox & Mandal. 

    A regular day at work is buzzing, overflowing with work, and I certainly enjoy it. It is combination of discussions with seniors, attending courts/tribunals, meetings with clients, drafting, researching, attending conferences with counsels, and without even realizing the day comes to an end. Our profession is extremely demanding and one has to be fine with long working hours on a daily basis. But under the tutelage of Mr. Shourya Mandal (Partner, Fox Mandal) and Mr. Orijit Chatterjee, work is enriching and fun-filled and their deep sense of humility and legal acumen encourages me all the time to strive hard and reach for the next level.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now? 

    The stalwarts in this industry make me seek more and more, when I see their quantum of success I feel like taking a deeper plunge. As I always say, law seeks me more than I seek it . It ensures I’m glued to it, that I love nothing more than being a lawyer. I’m sure in years to come I shall find a place in the legal history of the country, my own place.

       

    What is your message to our readers?

    Make most of your law school days. Go ahead, reach out and do whatever you desire. Get into action, then give your hundred percent and never look back. Enjoy, have fun, take trips and most importantly, make memories.

  • Savitha Jagadeesan, Partner, Kochhar & Co., on Intellectual Property Law, and being a Corporate Lawyer

    Savitha Jagadeesan, Partner, Kochhar & Co., on Intellectual Property Law, and being a Corporate Lawyer

    Savitha Jagadeesan graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 1997. Previously she’s held position of Partner at K. R. Chawla & Co., and Khaitan & Partners. She is currently Partner-Intellectual Property Chair at Kochhar & Co. Her expertise includes Transaction and Negotiation, Corporate advisory services. She is passionate about cyber crime and security issues. Further areas of expertise are in corporate law, commercial law, India Investment Strategies, which include providing legal advice on investments abroad by Indian companies, and companies seeking to invest in India, cyber laws and intellectual property law.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at NLSIU
    • Her internship experience
    • Her role at Kochhar & Co.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    The legal profession is a particularly demanding profession on the time front as well as work front. This was fine for me as long as I was single. However, post marriage and especially after having my boys, I have tried to work as well as do justice on the personal front, something a lot of us grapple with, especially women. I like to look back and reflect that am glad I took on a full family life, yet refused to give up my profession and have been successful in both. I would encourage young lawyers, especially women, that despite the demands of our profession, there are choices we can make that enable us to have a full career as well as family.

     

    What are your areas of specialization?

    I am a general corporate lawyer and have worked on diverse matters, from labour law to infrastructure matters. However, Intellectual Property law and cyber laws are my specialised areas.

     

    How would you describe your time as an undergraduate at NLSIU,Bangalore?

    The five years at NLSIU were personally very enriching. Coming from a conservative background, the diversity on the NLSIU campus truly exposed me to an experience that enabled me to interact with people across the board. Another very crucial experience one gets at NLSIU is the immense confidence you derive through the years, that holds you in good stead across the board. The NLS experience enables you to study various streams of law, exposes you to legal studies, that I feel might not be possible in a routine college. Moreover, the curriculum as well as co-curricular activities create greater avenues for us to explore.

     

    Did you participate in co-curricular activities?

    Yes, I did. Cultural activities and the inter college fests were definitely fun times, especially the NLS had a cultural week which also was great fun and a wonderful experience. I would encourage all to step up and be part of these activities as much as the moot court experience.

     

    How did you select the internships you got yourself engaged with in your student years?

    One of the foremost thoughts I had in mind  was that I wanted a well rounded experience to decide which path I would take upon graduation. Therefore, I chose litigation firms, corporate houses, independent counsel and corporate firms as my learning ladder. I picked big firms and companies as well as small lawyers. The former enabled me to see how the big firm/big company culture worked, and the latter meant I had direct experience on the work I would be required to handle. I would encourage young lawyers to give some thought to  their internships. Especially because they have a lot more opportunities we did.

     

    Could you please give our readers some advice regarding internships?

    I think it’s important to choose diverse paths to understand what we would like to do; the same is in case of internships. I do recommend varied internships for those who are confused. However, if you have decided the city you want to work with and it is a firm/corporate house/NGO, choose those only throughout the years of internship. However I would encourage many to definitely do internships with lawyers and litigation firms, because one of the cornerstones of being a good lawyer is that you should know the procedural aspects of law. In fact, I feel that lawyers should get some litigation experience in their career as it’s a lot easier to identify issues with their corporate work before hand. Now many firms have internships programs, therefore apply early. Choose firms, according to your growth trajectory, speak to your peers, do research on the firms that do provide good, well rounded internships, and of course, as already said, apply early.

     

    What would you like to say about the initial years as a corporate lawyer?

    Loved it. My first experience was with Mulla and Mulla, Craigie Blunt and Caroe and we had to do both litigation and corporate. It was not some air conditioned office, but we all sat in a room, but we had plenty of work, so plenty to do. It was intense, and there was no excuse of how many hours were spent in court, we still had to complete our corporate work and send out reporting letters the same day of the matter.

     

    Would you please enlighten the readers about how you came to choose your fields of specialization and suggest them the proper time to do so?

    This is an era of specialisation and is crucial to one’s growth path. I think it is imperative that through the years as you are dabbling in varied aspects of law, you also look into reading into various specialisations. Depending upon the curriculum if you are exposed to specialisation in courses in the fourth and fifth year, you choose the electives not purely based on interest, but its applicability in the outside world. I would also recommend choosing specialised firms, if you are looking at being specialised. Even though many of us might know what we want, I would recommend experimenting with these courses before you earmark a singular one, so  you do not regret the decisions later on. I would also speak to specialised lawyers to get an insight into the area, choose internships and write articles, this enables and exposes us to the idea, if our interest in these specialised areas is retained. For those unsure, read, research, speak to others. This will enable to get the dialogue going with us on what we would like to do.

     

    Did you have any mentor or inspirational figures along your eventful journey?

    Not really, although, I had excellent bosses who have played crucial roles in moulding me as a lawyer. From my first boss I learnt meticulousness and listening to detail. From my second boss I learnt the importance of working hard and reaching deadlines at all cost and identifying what sets you apart from others. My present stint brought out the business person in me and I realised presentation and branding is equally important, and most importantly your clientele is worked on your work skills and people skills.

     

    When was the time you decided to pursue an LLM?

    This was many years into my profession and the need to pursue the LLM was mainly because I wanted to pursue my Ph.d in India, where the LLM is a  requirement. However, I think there are two crucial junctures you can pursue your LLM; straight from law school (I would recommend doing it in UK and USA) or few years down the line, but only if it adds value to your specialisation.

     

    How would you describe your experience as a partner in a Tier-I company like K.R. Chawla and Co.?

    It was truly a learning experience for me. I was exposed to varied matters especially regulatory matters. Mr. Harvansh Chawla was a wonderful person to work for, as he exposed me to all kinds of work, gave me a free hand on how I executed the work and also encouraged me from all fronts. I think the work that I did here was some of the best in my career and it was here that I also learnt to interact with clients first hand. It was also this experience that enabled me to be an open colleague. By that I mean, for all my colleagues I work with, I give them a free hand on how they want to execute the work, including client interactions. I am but a stickler for timelines and feel that all work should be turned around fast irrespective of client deadlines.

     

    What is your advice to young aspiring interns about the Tier-1 firms?

    Learn, learn, learn. Some internships might be boring. However, if you take an initiative, you will find that many a firm will be willing to be expose you to their daily work and will use you. Don’t take your internships for granted. Work hard at the work you are given, even if research, because there is a chance you will be offered a position there and you might get noticed. Being a lawyer is not just about knowing the law, but also bringing out the confidence in your client. Never fib, if you do not know something check it up and then advice. Research is an imperative part of your learning curve. Write articles and be exposed to changes in the areas of law. And last but not the least, it is imperative that through the years you study the trends in the profession, and your choices are marked by this as your future will be shaped out to be due to these choices.

     

    Did you ever imagine that you would become Partner some day?

    Yes, I knew from the very beginning that I would be part of the law firm culture and I had already envisaged that being a partner was definitely going to be on my bucket list. I think its an aspiration we should all keep, to reach the top, that keeps the adrenaline rushing, and we do not get bored of our profession. Pick challenges in whatever you do, and do not rest with one.

     

    Could you tell us what a typical work day entails for you?

    Well, I do a lot of my business meetings in the first half of the day. We have administrative decisions to be taken which we do through the day.  Most of my day goes in conference calls, meetings and tackling work. My time is divided between intellectual property and corporate queries. I also do a fair bit of business development for the firm and hence, meeting and sitting on committees also takes some time.

     

    How do you stay updated on the latest legal developments?

    I read a lot of judgments and articles. Reading legal books are more when doing opinions. However, I do make it a policy to subscribe to various legal updates that come to me. Recently, with technology, legal Whatsapp groups are in, and this exposes are fairly quickly to the latest law developments.

     

    Lastly, what would be your tips to aspiring lawyers?

    1. Work hard.
    2. Take initiative.
    3. Do court work, you will see a definite difference in your attitude as a lawyer.
    4. Read.
    5. Never say no to any kind of work, more the experience the better the lawyer you will be.
    6. Never say no to a client, even if it is a small matter, take it up and execute it with equal gusto as a big matter, you are in the business of building relationships so every bit counts.
    7. If you are thinking of a company job/NGOs your organisation comes first, never substitute the hard work for the company for anything else. Integrity will always see you a long way.

     

  • Poornima Hatti, Partner-Dispute Resolution, Samvad Partners, on studying in London, her association with the UN, and editing her book

    Poornima Hatti, Partner-Dispute Resolution, Samvad Partners, on studying in London, her association with the UN, and editing her book

    Poornima Hatti graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 2003. She then went on to pursue her Masters in 2005 from London School of Economics. Her repertoire includes associations with the likes of Amarchand Mangaldas and Herbert Smith. She is currently Partner-Dispute Resolution at Samvad Partners. Poornima also has strong expertise as an anti harassment professional particularly in relation to anti sexual harassment issues at the workplace. She sits as an external independent professional on a number of enquiry committees. She is also a trained mediator. She works with various public interest organisations particularly on matters of urban planning and growth on a pro bono basis.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at NLSIU
    • Her experience at Tier-I firms
    • Her pro bono work

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I would like to believe I am a thinking lawyer who believes that law can bring about change. My practice lies in dispute resolution and in related advisory.

     

    Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law?

    My parents are lawyers, so black robes and AIR manuals were not alien to me. I was therefore extremely aware of law as a profession and the wide ranging work that could be done as a lawyer. Looking back, in 1997, a lot of my peers were also very excited about the prospect of learning law at the National Law School (NLSIU). As I learned more about the institution and the people involved in the new “legal experiment”, I was very interested in getting admission at NLSIU. If I had not gotten through to NLSIU perhaps I would have looked at becoming a doctor.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your life at NLSIU.

    I enjoyed all aspects of my time spent at the NLSIU. I can truly say that I met some amazing and very intelligent people, both in terms of students and faculty, many of whom are now lifelong friends. The institution taught me to write and to think independently and shaped my political and ideological beliefs. For the first time I understood what dissent was and how dissent should be respected. It gave me the confidence to believe in myself and truly allowed me to explore the myriad opportunities a young law student has within her reach.

    I am not sure whether there is a “NLU culture”. Institutions are often shaped by the people who lead them. I know that there are non NLU universities in India where very interesting courses that are being taught and where the environment is truly conducive for a holistic legal education. Every institution should do all it can to be true to its own idea of why it came to be.

     

    What are the subjects that you took particular interest in, during your law school days?

    I was interested in the humanities, particularly in political science. Constitutional law was also very exciting and this led me to look more closely at constitution theory at the London School of Economics where I studied later. I even came back and taught it at NLSIU as a seminar course. At times the subject itself may be appealing and at other times the people who teach a subject can make you very interested in it! I was clear that criminal law was not for me! I was always clear that I would be a disputes lawyer, courts were always more inviting to me. Even today it is difficult to predict how events can unfold in Court, you may be hoping for a dull day, only to be surprised later.

     

    What activities, both academic and non-academic that you engaged in as a law student?

    In a fairly small group of students in a university, you can try your hand at most things and I did! I was not very good at sports and even broke my ankle trying to high jump in my first year, but still won a medal. I did debate, quiz and participated in a number of student bar association activities, primarily the legal services clinic. I was also elected as president of the student bar association in my fourth year and I learnt many things about working with people in this role. I was late to the mooting scene and only did so in my fifth year and participated in the Bar Council Moot and the International Maritime Arbitration Moot in Brisbane.

    I cannot stress how important it is to be involved in non academic activities at your institutions. These activities allow you to engage with your own peers in different contexts and allow you to build skills which will stand you in good stead in whatever path you choose later. You will learn to engage with the “real world” in many ways.

    Even as partners, we do work with Chambers of Commerce and other institutions that interest us or that we are passionate about. I would love for mediation to be used more actively and so I am part of the Centre for Advanced Mediation Practice here in Bangalore.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    Almost all my internships were connected with dispute resolution as an area of practice. I interned with non governmental organisations who were involved in litigation, like the Environment Support Group and Human Rights Law Network. I later interned with the National Human Rights Commission, with the then Attorney General’s office and finally clerked with a Supreme Court judge. Each internship taught me valuable skills and perspectives. It also gave me the opportunity to meet with some wonderful people. Looking back, each person I worked with taught me something new in terms of working with people, approaching clients or looking at a solution for a problem. I would say choose your internships carefully and work hard. There is someone always watching.

     

    Would you say higher studies are absolutely essential for a career in law?

    No, an LLM is not essential for a practising lawyer. However, it does give you perspective on theory and practice and it gave me, a more rounded view of the world. During my time in London, I also did some mini pupillages at a few Barristers’ Chambers and this gave me an insight into the working of the law outside of India.

    Which is the ideal time to do an L.L.M?

    I would strongly recommend working for a few years. Personally, I appreciated the class room better, made better use of my time as a student both academically and in terms of peer interaction, as I had learned to value my personal time. One also approaches law differently, after one has seen it being practised. You want to solve a problem, and you think out of the box.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation in law?

    I have always been a disputes lawyer. Today I am a commercial disputes lawyers, although we do undertake a few pro bono matters which are public law matters. As a disputes lawyer, other than the procedural laws that are essential, one learns to look at various issues in the context of different disputes. It could be a projects/infrastructure dispute or a complex shareholders disputes or an intellectual property dispute, most practising dispute lawyers handle all kinds of disputes. Of course there are specialist IP disputes lawyers and maritime lawyers but most disputes lawyers work across the spectrum.

    Every dispute teaches me something new.  My advice to law students would be not to specialise too early. Try and get adequate exposure to as many types of law as possible and then you can choose to specialise. A well rounded lawyer can also be prepared for issues that may arise across practice areas and may not be pigeon holed one way or another.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation?

    I was fortunate enough to not be surprised by law in terms of the substantive aspects of law when I started working. The practise of the law is a completely different thing, one needs to understand client expectations, time management and one needs to learn a whole lot of people skills along with substantive law. A lot of this is not taught at law school and often internships do not offer real responsibility in terms of communication with all parties involved. As you grow senior, you will realise that people skills will stand you in good stead. Often clients tell me, that they chose to work with people they like and not always because they are fantastic lawyers. To be fair, law schools cannot prepare you for the real world practice, that is where the first few years are important. Young lawyers need to understand where and how they can be trained with rigour and opt for those places to work.

     

    Give us some insights on the qualities that Tier-I firms look for in prospective candidates.

    I think the focus should be for young lawyers to work with good people and where they can be busy. If you wish to work on diverse areas of law or a particular kind of law, then choose accordingly. Importantly, there should be an opportunity to learn and think. In terms of what does a law firm look for in a prospective candidate, I think any good law firm, even we at Samvad, look for a good work ethic and enthusiasm. There is nothing more refreshing than a young lawyer thinking ahead of his senior and adding value to the case at hand. These are things that can be seen in the context of an internship, so again, young lawyers should make the most of their internships.  I have seen this at Amarchand, at Herbert Smith LLP (as it then was) and here at Samvad.

     

    Tell us about your association with the UN.

    (Poornima has worked with the Executive Board of UN women where she has worked on equal pay and other women’s rights issues across the South East Asia region.)

    I was part of the Executive Committee at UNIFEM (now UN Women) in Singapore. As Singapore is a high income country, the group worked on issues relating to women across South East Asia, which included raising awareness of the UN Convention for Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), working with local non governmental organisations on issues of violence against women, be it in Indonesia or Cambodia. We also focused on ensuring that domestic help/maids employed in Singapore would get a day off during their work week and ensuring that payments were made properly. We even worked on a shadow committee report for the UN as part of Singapore’s CEDAW obligations. UN Women was and is a vibrant and active space where I learnt a lot about women’s right in practice and the tough role that one has to play to achieve them.

     

    Tell us about your role at Samvad Partners.

    While the partnership at Samvad Partners continues to grow, it is still quite close knit and very collegial. While I am primarily based out of Bangalore, as part of my disputes role, I work across offices be in Chennai, Hyderabad, Mumbai or Delhi to ensure that if there is something that needs to be addressed on the dispute resolution front, it is effectively addressed. The average day includes client work (be it meetings, attending hearings, building and strengthening relationships with clients) as well a fair share of administrative work, which could be resolving HR issues, putting new systems in place or just figuring out if we need revamped stationary. It is exciting to be part of  a relatively young and diverse group of partners and to shape strategy and growth of a legal practice together.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    Call me old fashioned, but I think grades are important. If someone has consistent good grades, it demonstrates a certain level of hard work and knowledge of the law. On the contrary, if there are students with consistent low grades, it would be difficult to explain why that is the case. I believe that Indian legal education has taken a great leap forward in the past decade. There are more people interested in teaching the law and different types of subjects are being taught. The fact that there are so many young people interested in learning the law is itself a pointer that things are moving ahead. I am optimistic about the future.

     

    Tell us a little about the book that you are currently co-editing, on role modelling and mentoring at the workplace.

    A lot of us have often wondered about the lack of positive and focused mentoring in the legal profession, be it at the Bar, at law firms or at law schools. This led to a wider quest and the book was shaped by that. Interestingly, it’s not a law book, although my co-editor Shruti Vidyasagar and I are both lawyers. The book is part of a larger series on leadership at the workplace and is to be published by Palgrave McMillan and should hit the stands by next year.

     

    What is your message to our readers?

    There is no substitute for hard work and enthusiasm. Do both. Read and keep abreast of everything happening around you. Look beyond the law, too often as lawyers we do not look or make friends outside the law, we must. It keeps us balanced and makes us more relevant. You should want to get out of bed and get to work everyday, else its time to rethink what you want to do.

    Many thanks for giving me the opportunity.

  • Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore, in 1999. Soon after, he started work with Shah Desai Doijode & Phatarphekar.  He then pursued his LLM, with a focus in Corporate and Commercial Laws, at Bond University, Australia, where he achieved academic distinction when his name appeared on the Dean’s List.  Upon completion of his LLM he returned to India where he worked for DSK Legal (formerly Andersen Legal India) and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices.  He now has his own firm, Universal Legal.  His areas of expertise include Real Estate, Corporate and Commercial, Medical, Intellectual Property and Media. His articles have been published in various newspapers and magazines.  

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at Luthra & Luthra
    • Starting his own firm
    • Being a first generation lawyer

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

    I have always wanted to be a lawyer. And being a first generation lawyer at that made it all the more challenging. 

     

    Tell us a bit about your time at NLSIU, Bangalore.

    Studying law was challenging as the methods adopted in NLSIU were different. It was not lecture-oriented but discussion-oriented. Students were expected to read before coming to class, so that a healthy discussions could happen. It was an initial shock to me coming straight out of school to this. I come from an all-boys school, hence interaction with girls on campus was a pleasant surprise. Further, the faculty included stalwarts like Dr N R Madhava Menon, Dr. N. L. Mitra, Prof. S. V. Joga Rao, etc. which gave us perspectives of law beyond our imagination. Also, we had practicing lawyers coming and sharing their experiences with us , which allowed us to have practical insights to law.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    Yes, I did take part in co-curricular activities. I participated in a few moot courts—although, with rather unsuccessful results, I should add. I helped the institution organise several conferences.  The highlight was, when I led a team to organise an international conference on Human Rights in association with Interights. The conference was attended by 40 odd judges including Chief Justices from across the world, including Dr. A. S. Anand, the then Chief Justice of India.

     

    What were you areas of interest during your legal education?

    I was interested in doing Corporate Law. However, when I got into practical world and started working, real estate and succession planning became my forte. In fact, I have also authored a book on real estate called Layman’s Guide to Property Transaction Rights.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    We need to simplify the laws and legal writings so that a common man can understand it. I consciously wrote my book in a language other than English, to make it more accessible. Further, I conduct legal workshops and lectures through various fora to make people understand the same.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    Unless you want to get into academics or work abroad, pursuing further studies is not required. It’s better to dive into the big bad world headfirst. Practical experience is the best teacher.

     

    How did you keep up with Bond University’s academic rigour? 

    It was very exciting as you got to meet with students from across the world, which was not possible in India. It was a melting pot of diverse cultures. It was a confluence of various legal systems. The university expected very high standards of academic performance from all its students. The faculty was very approachable and friendly. We used to have lunches and drinks together and learn more outside the class than inside it.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at DSK Legal and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. 

    DSK Legal, through its managing partner Anand Desai taught me how to apply law to suit the clients’ requirement. The aim was to provide the client with the most appropriate solution. At the Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, I learnt to work against stiff timelines. The body of work was varied but mainly concentrated on Real Estate and Media.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I did not have a mentor. I think it’s essential to have someone to look up to and guide you during the initial phase of your career.

     

    How did you come to be the Founding Partner at Universal Legal? 

    I was one of the first few recruits of Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, in Mumbai. This enabled me to get insight on how to establish a law office. This got me thinking, if I can do it for someone else, then why not for myself. We are a full service law firm. At the firm, we tried to incorporate all that we admire about reputable Tier-1 firms, and add a personalised touch to it. Also, we did not want to sit in office and idle our time. It was clear that people have to work long hours if there is work on the table. But if there are days, when there is less work, you are not required to sit in office. We believe in five day weeks and promote a healthy work life balance.

     

    Do you consciously focus on building a specific body of work? 

    Yes we do.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you have faced in your career so far?

    The challenges are to constantly get work in the firm and keep abreast with the developments happening in the field of law. With the laws changing so fast and being adapted to new scenarios, we have to be on our toes.

     

    How do you deal with the pressures associated with your position?

    If you enjoy what you are doing, then there is no pressure.

     

    What qualities and achievements do you look for in potential job applicants/ interns at Universal Legal?

    The person should be willing to learn and have the basic knowledge of law. The person should have the ability to find the law and solution.

    Can you describe the process that goes behind writing?

    There is no processes as such. It’s the knowledge that we gather along the way gets translated into the writing.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Reading and doing research. Also, by trying constantly reinvent myself

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Just be yourself and enjoy what you do.

  • Ajoy Halder, Partner, HSA Advocates, on his time at NLSIU, and his experience in Energy and Infrastructure Law

    Ajoy Halder, Partner, HSA Advocates, on his time at NLSIU, and his experience in Energy and Infrastructure Law

    Ajoy Halder graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 2004. After successful stints at Trilegal, Amarchand Mangaldas, Pinsent Masons, among others, he is currently Partner at HSA Advocates. Ajoy has diverse experience of representing sponsors, banks and governments on all aspects of infrastructure transactions including PPP transactions, EPC/construction contracts, project finance transactions and M&A/joint venture transactions (in infrastructure sector). The sectors in which Ajoy specialise are transport including airport, rail/metro, port and road; power including renewal and non-renewal; water; and oil & gas. He has extensive experience of advising on infrastructure and energy transactions across Asia including India, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Myanmar, China, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka; Africa including Uganda, Kenya and Zimbabwe; and Middle East.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • The best time to pursue an LL.M
    • His experience in energy and infrastructure law

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an energy and infrastructure lawyer with more than thirteen years of experience in this practice area.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your life at NLSIU. 

    NLS is a very liberal and tolerant institute which provides opportunities to (and teaches) the students to have diverse views and co-exist. In addition to law, it teaches skills which are needed to survive/succeed in life, such as making presentations, public speaking, social skills, etc. The schedule at NLS can be a bit hectic – attendance is compulsory, multiple research papers are to be written each trimester followed by presentations and exams. The regular classes commence early in the morning and get over by lunch, which provides ample time to the students to engage in co-curricular/ extra-curricular activities. Life at NLS would often depend on the interest of an individual student. I was moderately active on the co-curricular/ extra-curricular activities. It could be very competitive but I kept myself away from that. Based on my experience, NLUs being specialized institutes for legal education, are probably more conducive to legal education.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    I interned with NGOs, corporates and law firms with a slight exposure to dispute resolution. Internship gives you an insight into the real world, therefore, law students should utilize internship opportunities and explore various fields of law and understand the work culture associated with different fields of law. The exposure from the internships and feedback from my professors/ alumni helped me realize that I wanted to be a corporate lawyer during my initial years after law school.

     

    What internships would you recommend to a student who also aspires to carve out a career for himself/herself in corporate law?

    I would recommend interning with litigating lawyers, law firms and corporates. Litigation exposure gives a good understanding of how laws and contracts are interpreted when it comes to disputes and corporate internships give an insight on what the corporates expect from a corporate lawyer working at a law firm.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields?

    I specialize in advising on energy and infrastructure projects across Asia. I have also worked on a few projects  in Africa and the Middle East. During my initial years as a lawyer, I practised a little bit of everything (mainly general corporate, banking and projects). I started liking energy and infrastructure projects better than other areas of practice and thus specialized in energy and infrastructure. Further, my stint with Pinsent Masons in Singapore gave me a greater exposure to energy and infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa and the Middle East, and my liking for this area of practice continued. It is very interesting to advise on energy and infrastructure projects in different jurisdictions. Most of the jurisdictions have their own peculiarities, which makes these projects more interesting, and of course, your learning curve is very high. The learning from one jurisdiction is usually utilized in advising on energy and infrastructure projects in a different jurisdiction and vice versa. I plan to continue working on this area of law.

     

    At what stage in one’s law school life must one pick a specialisation?

    A corporate lawyer should ideally not decide on which field he/she wants to specialize in law school. In fact, one should not commence specialization until two to three years of practising law. It is very important to have knowledge of most areas of law. The initial years should be spent on working on as many different areas of law as possible. This will not only help in deciding which area of law one is good at but will also help in providing all round advice to clients in subsequent years.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    I did not have any mentor. Initially, monetary consideration was an important inspiration; however, (luckily) as I started working, I started enjoying infrastructure and energy related assignments. I started understanding the sector, not only the legal aspects but also the commercial aspects- this helped me grow as a commercial lawyer. I tend to learn from people around me, they are my inspiration. Some are good at drafting, some at analysis, while others at some other aspects of legal practice. I try to pick up different attributes from different people.  

     

    Would you say law school prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    I am not sure if law school prepares you for the real world of practice of law. But if we enter the legal profession with an open mind and are willing to un-learn and re-learn, success is around the corner. It is very important to work diligently during the initial years. Most of the important skills (research, drafting, analytical skills, client management), which will sustain us as a lawyer for the rest of our careers, are learnt during the initial years of law practice. I worked diligently during my initial years trying to absorb as much as possible. The learning curve should be very high during the initial years of law practice.

     

    Tell us about your experience working at a Tier-I firm like Amarchand & Mangaldas.

    I think confidence plays an important role. Confidence usually comes with knowledge and willingness to learn. In most leading firms, a lawyer would be dealing with clients across continents. Therefore, a professional approach and some social skills are also a prerequisite for success at a leading firm.

     

    How do you say interns should go about their work at a firm like Amarchand & Mangaldas, so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    Small things go a long way; be on time, complete tasks on time, work sincerely on the assignment given to you, proofread documents before sending to the attorneys, dress professionally, don’t repeat mistakes. Basically, be diligent and sincere.

     

    Back in your student years, did you ever see yourself becoming the partner of a firm as reputed as HSA?

    I am happy that I am a partner at HSA. However, I don’t remember being concerned about or putting too much of emphasis on partnership during my college days. I was more concerned about job satisfaction and growing as a lawyer and as a person. Luckily, early on in my career I realized what area of law I wanted to specialize in and I kept at it. Thus, perseverance/consistency played an important role in my career. I was fortunate to get the opportunity to work at Amarchand & Mangaldas and then at Pinsent Masons in Singapore. These two law firms played a very important role in my career. In addition to knowing/learning the law (which should be a given for any lawyer), one needs to have strong analytical and social skills to be in any leadership position. Both these law firms taught me plenty of these.  

     

    Give us a brief capsule of the life of a partner and your average working day experience.

    I am quite hands on when it comes to execution. Therefore, I spend a lot of time on execution of transactions. In addition, I spend considerable time on business development activities and some time on administrative matters of the firm. An average day would start with replying to various mails, followed by legal work and business development activities (may not be in this order).

     

    If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point? 

    I have worked in Delhi for the longest time, then briefly in Mumbai and then for a few years in Singapore. This has given me diverse experience and I am quite happy about that. I am content with where I am.  In the initial years, one should concentrate on learning and should not change too many jobs.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    Work hard, and more importantly, be kind(to yourself and people around you). Law is a demanding profession and maintaining amicable relations with clients and colleagues will help your career in the long run. After all, it’s a small world.

  • Chaitanya Ramachandran, Legal Counsel-India, Twitter, on technology and law, and his experience

    Chaitanya Ramachandran, Legal Counsel-India, Twitter, on technology and law, and his experience

    Chaitanya graduated from NLSIU in 2009. After a successful stint at Clifford Chance LLP, he went on to pursue his Masters at Stanford Law School, with a specialisation in Law, Science and Technology. He is currently Legal Counsel (India) at Twitter, where his role entails managing litigation in courts throughout India, drafting and negotiating commercial agreements for all Twitter products, services and partnerships, advising on Intellectual Property, Privacy and Data Protection law, developing and enforcing robust corporate governance policies, and developing and delivering training programs on Twitter policies and processes for both internal and external audiences.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • Marrying law with technology
    • His experience at Twitter

    What would you like to say to our readers in the manner of an introduction of yourself?

    I’m a technology lawyer and work for Twitter, where I lead the Legal function in India.

     

    What inspired you to take up law?

    I was always interested in computers and technology, so as a senior school student I did briefly consider engineering. But I noticed that hardly anyone I saw studying engineering in India actually ended up becoming an engineer; the “engineers” all seemed to end up in finance, consulting, management, or pretty much anything other than actual engineering. So I quickly realized that it wasn’t for me. Around the same time (this would have been around the 10th standard), I started to become interested in law, largely owing to interesting and vigorous debates in the media about the controversial laws of the time (the Prevention of Terrorism Act being a notable one). I also knew a few seniors who had been admitted to the five-year law programs, and their accounts of law school life sounded very appealing to me! I’m not a first-generation lawyer, but my family was quite supportive.

     

    Tell us a bit about your time studying law at NLSIU.

    I have fond memories of my five years at NLSIU. I wasn’t particularly fixated on academics to be honest; it was the non-academic pursuits that captured my imagination. Quizzing was foremost – I have always been a quizzer, and NLSIU has a very rich tradition of quizzing. It was an honour to have been part of that tradition, and to have been part of Bangalore’s quizzing scene, which is India’s finest. Another interest that developed at NLSIU was writing – I wrote a few articles on technology law, and was involved with the publication of the Indian Journal of Law and Technology (IJLT) in its formative years. I also spent a LOT of time listening to music and discovering new artists and genres! Looking back, it was a fun, relaxed time when I was mostly free to explore whatever interested me.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I don’t think I was very serious about my internships. I did one per year, which was the minimum amount required. Three of those were litigation internships in Delhi, where I experienced every level of practice from trial up to the Supreme Court. While I worked with some truly accomplished and supportive seniors, I realized that litigation as a career wasn’t for me. I didn’t enjoy the chaos and wastage of time that are an inescapable part of the day-to-day practice of litigation in India, nor did I see myself thriving in the increasingly aggressive milieu of the Bar. So more than anything else, my internship experiences steered me away from a potential career path – not that that’s necessarily a bad thing!

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    Go with your gut. If you are reasonably engaged with what’s happening at law school, you should find your inclinations emerging naturally during the five years. As you learn what interests you, seek out more research, writing or internship opportunities in that field, and if you can, reach out to people in the field to learn more about what they do. Perhaps most importantly – don’t do something just because other people are doing it. That’s probably the single worst reason to do anything.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Clifford Chance LLP. 

    The transition was difficult. In addition to the transition from student life to working life, I also had to contend with the transition from India to a completely new culture. But my main motivation in signing on with Clifford Chance was to experience living and working overseas, so I met the challenge willingly. What appealed most to me about the big London law firms was that all trainees are required to rotate through three or four practice areas in the first two years, which gives you a pretty comprehensive overview of legal practice when you’re fresh out of law school. I also got the chance to spend half a year in Brazil on secondment, which was a fantastic experience. These experiences built my confidence in being able to do business across borders and cultures, which is central to what I do today. In retrospect, another thing I appreciate about these early experiences is that one tends to develop good working habits in the type of demanding work environment that firms like Clifford Chance offer, and these stay with you later, even if you eventually choose to move on to something different.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I didn’t have a mentor, which I suppose isn’t surprising because I became interested in technology law when it was a brand-new, mostly unknown field, and nobody was making a career out of it, at least in India. It really took off in India only about five years ago, and today there’s no shortage of people in the field whom law students can seek out for guidance. Based on my experiences, I don’t think it’s necessary to have a mentor. What’s important is getting to know yourself and what makes you tick, and creating opportunities for yourself. A strong drive and quality work product will help you get noticed. I’ll also add that I’ve been very fortunate to have had some extremely supportive bosses at every stage of my career – at Clifford Chance, Amarchand Mangaldas, and now at Twitter – who have encouraged me to follow my chosen path and provided sound advice when I needed it.

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LL.M?

    Two things. The first was that I knew relatively early in my law school career that I wanted to make a career out of technology law, and a specialized degree seemed like a good way of embarking on that path. The second was that I wanted to experience a foreign academic culture and learn from the world’s leading minds.

     

    How did you keep up with the challenging academic rigor at Stanford?

    I think attending Stanford has been the single most important decision that I’ve taken in my career to date. “Rigor” is the right word – the LL.M. was a very demanding course for me. But staying motivated was never a problem; US law schools allow you to design your own LL.M. program, so I was only taking courses that I was genuinely interested in. “All killer, no filler!” In fact, the real problem at Stanford was that I was interested in more courses than I could realistically take during the LL.M. year, so deciding which courses not to take was a conundrum. Stanford Law School allows you to take courses outside the law school as well, so for the first time in my life I was able to experience a bit of non-legal higher education! Another standout part of the Stanford experience was that my professors were all world-renowned authorities in their field, and my fellow students were an extremely accomplished bunch, so the classroom environment was excellent. That encouraged me to put in the work to be able to come into the classroom and hold my own, day after day.

     

    How would you compare your LL.M experience with your under grad legal education in India?

    The difference is stark. The pedagogical cultures are fundamentally different. Five-year law schools in India are focused on classroom teaching. The vast majority of your time as a student in a US law school is spent in self-study, and you come into the classroom to both refine and question what you have learned on your own. US law schools make huge demands on your time with respect to reading, and focus much more on primary materials including case law and statutes. This helps greatly with the transition from studying to practice, as knowing your way around a judgment or statute is such a fundamental skill in practice.

     

    How did you come to work with Amarchand Mangaldas? 

    Having tossed my hat over the wall of technology law, I wanted to work with a practice that would allow me to specialize in this field. The team at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas (which was still AMSS at the time I joined) was in the process of building out their technology practice (which was then housed within the policy and regulatory practice), and I saw this as a good opportunity to start the next phase of my career. Over two years at SAM, I got to do some very interesting work with a client base that included some of the world’s leading tech companies, and was also exposed to industry bodies and Internet institutions like ICANN and ISOC, which I remain engaged with today. I also had two incredibly supportive bosses in Mr. Shardul Shroff and Mr. Sandip Beri, who encouraged me to pursue my chosen path and gave me the opportunity to prove myself.

     

    How do you deal with the massive challenges of representing one of the most important social networking sites world over?

    (Chaitanya is Twitter’s first Counsel in India.)

    It never gets boring, that’s for sure! Twitter is a unique place, and I never cease to be amazed by the ways in which our users are constantly reinventing how they use our platform; to joke, to speak up (or speak out), to connect with like minded strangers, to share information at the speed of light, to stay connected with what’s happening in the world. I often have to deal with difficult legal issues where the law provides little to no guidance and there’s no ready solution, which is precisely the kind of challenge I thrive on. It’s also a privilege to work for a company that shares my own values – that free speech is valuable and worth defending. I always find my work engaging due to the inherent nature of Twitter; the legal issues I encounter are closely connected to current events in India and beyond. When work gets especially demanding, I stay motivated by remembering that what we are doing is giving every person in the world a voice –an idea that has gone from being absolutely unthinkable to indispensable reality within my own lifetime. That’s powerful stuff.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on? 

    These days, as an in-house lawyer, I don’t have much room to choose – I have to deal with whatever crosses my desk! Though as someone who has always wanted to work in tech, I find most issues I come across at Twitter very interesting. In previous roles, I definitely tried to build up a corpus of work in my chosen field, and was fortunate enough to have access to clients that offered exactly the type of work that I wanted to do. I’ve learned that you must proactively seek out the type of work that you want to do – don’t count on it finding you. While fresh-faced graduates may not have a huge amount of choice right off the bat, this becomes easier to do with more experience.

     

    Could you take us through a typical working day at your office?

    I don’t think I’ve had a single day at Twitter that has gone perfectly according to plan! Nevertheless, to give you a representative example, I typically start work early and catch up on my inbox and the news. I try and reserve technical work like marking up an agreement or reviewing a litigation draft for this time of the day, when I’m at my freshest. I may have a Hangout scheduled for mid-morning with one of my internal business clients, where I’ll bring them up to speed on the current status of their ongoing deals, and learn about other deals that are in the pipeline. I may then move on to reviewing requests from various parts of the company that I need to approve; these could be anything from supplier contracts to press releases to creatives for an upcoming ad campaign on the platform. While my colleagues and I always talk about having a sit-down lunch at one of the many restaurants nearby, this mostly remains a pipe dream, and I usually only have time to grab something from one of my favourite shops or food trucks and catch up on Twitter or The Economist. Post-lunch, I may have a regular Hangout scheduled with one of my international counterparts in the Legal organization, after which I’ll usually try and check off the remainder of my list of goals for the day – perhaps complete a piece of legal research, respond to a customer or internal client, or work on an internal company policy or process that’s being updated. I’ll then try and beat the notorious NCR traffic on my way back home, where I’ll resume attacking my list and catch up on my inbox. Later that night, I may have a cross-time zone call with our headquarters team and outside counsel to set our strategy and prepare for an upcoming court hearing. I’ll hopefully end the day feeling that, while not everything may have gone to plan (there are always surprises and emergencies that you can’t account for), I made meaningful progress on my goals for the week.

     

    What books, judgements that you have read would you say have played an integral role in shaping your legal philosophy?

    I’d say my philosophy has been strongly influenced by the writings of three lawyer-statesmen: Thomas Jefferson, for his conception of individual liberties and their central role in society as well as his mastery of the written word; Jawaharlal Nehru, whose idealism and clarity of purpose shone through vividly in his writings; and Lee Kuan Yew, whose warnings about the essential fragility of civilization and the dangers of populism seem especially prescient in 2017.

    With respect to my day-to-day work, a book that has influenced me greatly is High Performance with High Integrity by Ben Heineman, which I was introduced to as a student at Stanford. It is essential reading for in-house counsel, and I strongly recommend it to anyone who is interested in this line of work.

     

    What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel in this industry?

    I think the key skill for in-house lawyers is being a good listener. The outcome that we are always pursuing is helping our business colleagues achieve their goals while simultaneously protecting the interests of the company. Listening well helps you identify potential risks and ask the right questions. An added benefit is that it helps you learn something new every day, especially at a large, diverse company where you’re surrounded by colleagues working on amazing stuff that’s well outside your comfort zone as a lawyer. The only way to develop this skill is to practice it everyday.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests? 

    I’ve learned that you have to make the time for the things you value in life – no one’s going to hand it to you. Music is my first love; when I’m not at work you’ll probably find me playing or tinkering with one of my guitars.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in law?

    On Twitter!

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I don’t know how qualified I am to give advice, but since you’ve given me a soapbox, I’d encourage anyone reading this to be original and follow their own interests within (or outside) the law, wherever they may lead. I often turn to a great quote by Phil Knight that has pride of place outside the Stanford Graduate School of Business: “There comes a time in every life when the past recedes and the future opens. It’s that moment when you turn to face the unknown. Some will turn back to what they already know. Some will walk straight ahead into uncertainty. I can’t tell you which one is right. But I can tell you which one is more fun.”

     

  • Avirup Nag, Partner, IndusLaw, on working with Trilegal and Herbert Smith, and his experience

    Avirup Nag, Partner, IndusLaw, on working with Trilegal and Herbert Smith, and his experience

    Avirup graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 2005. He then went on to receive his Master’s degree under the European Union Erasmus Mundus programme, from University of Hamburg and University of Vienna. Avirup is currently is a Partner at IndusLaw. He is part of IndusLaw’s Energy, Infrastructure and Natural Resources practice, and specialising in power, roads, railways and PPA. He has more than twelve years’ experience in the field of energy and infrastructure advisory, and he regularly advises various Indian and overseas IPPs/project developers on a range of issues relating to development of renewable energy projects, including in relation to development contracts, off-take arrangements, regulatory issues. He regularly acts for financial and strategic investors on energy/infrastructure M&A transactions involving purchase or sale of infrastructure and energy assets (including large portfolio deals, single-asset deals and joint ventures), particularly in the renewables sector.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • His experience at Tier I firms
    • Being Partner at IndusLaw

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Well, I am Avirup, father of a three year old daughter, and a commercial lawyer specialising in Energy and Infrastructure. I live and work in Delhi, and am a big Manchester United fan. I think that enough to go on for now.

     

    Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law, amidst the many options that you had after school?

    Honestly, I chose law because of my inability to handle mathematics – I was studying economics and I was bored with all the mathematical models you are required to create to explain any theory in economics. Also, the concept of being a deal maker always fascinated me (although when I left school I didn’t have much idea of what a deal maker is supposed to do – other than wear fancy suits and sit in fancy conference rooms!), and I thought my ineptitude at math will came in the way of going to a B-school after my undergrad degree in economics – so I chose to go to law school instead. I felt that lawyers are deal facilitators and are intrinsically involved in shaping commercial deals, but to tell the truth I didn’t have much idea about what to expect from law school.

    I think one of the problems with the Indian education system is that they make you take the hardest decisions about your life at the time when you have no experience with the outside world.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your life at NLSIU.

    Honestly, I have kind of forgotten what the day to day life in NLS was like other than the fact that the food was nothing to write home about – I graduated almost twelve years ago!

    However, NLS is a truly amazing institution which lets you discover your strengths and weaknesses. What really comes to my mind when thinking of NLS is “competitive” – the place makes you really competitive and pushes you to challenge yourself, which I think kind of prepares you for the world outside. Also, what I really liked about NLS was the fact that some of the professors (but not all) there really taught you to question things which one would otherwise take as obvious – this really helps when you have to look at structures/proposals and analyse them, it helps you question things others consider ‘standard’ or ‘market’.  The academic schedule at NLS was quite intense and consisted of four courses a trimester which involve four hours of classes every day. The trimester was divided into phases where you either study for your exams (mid-term and final!) and writing research papers that are mandatory for every course, and this kind of keeps you on your toes and teaches you a lot about time management and delivering under pressure.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    Other than two mandatory litigation internships, all my internships were with commercial law firms – I was clear from my third year onwards that I wanted to be a commercial lawyer and not a litigator. I did couple of internships with Trilegal (where I got a PPO).  During my first internship at Trilegal I worked on some aspects of the then new electricity act which really interested me, so after that I did internships with firms with good infra and energy teams and tried working more with the folks working in those fields. So, in a nutshell I kind of chose a specialization really early and tried to get more practical experiences of that field during my internships – this was important since infrastructure and energy laws are not something which were offered as a concentration at NLS.

     

    Are LL.Ms absolutely necessary for a career in law?

    No, I don’t think an LL.M degree is absolutely necessary for a career in law (unless of course you are taking about a career in legal academics, in which case yes!). While recruiting I really don’t care if you have a LLM or not. My hiring decision will be not made on the basis of the LL.M but on the basis of the LL.B, your aptitude and attitude and your relevant work experience.  

    However, having said that I believe if one wishes pursue a specialisation in some fields of law (like tax, maritime law etc.) or understand the specific technical nuances behind why certain things are structured certain way (such as long term contracts/concessions etc.), lawyers can use the LL.M. to deepen an existing specialization or develop a new one, particularly when their first law school didn’t offer that concentration.  

     

    Which is the ideal time to do an LL.M?

    I would say the right time to do an LL.M is when you have worked for couple of years, and know that specialisation you want to pursue or which areas of law really interests you. To me, an LL.M is about enhancing your knowledge about a specialised field and increasing your exposure to the world – so you are better off doing it when you are got some practical experience of that field and know what you want from that one year.

     

    What does it take to make the cut and land a Tier-I job?

    (Avirup had previously worked with Trilegal, New Delhi, one of the most sought after firms for placements by students, as a Counsel.)

    When I joined Trilegal it was a firm experiencing a steep growth trajectory and it was exciting to be part of that – honestly I didn’t have an interview or go through any formal process while joining Trilegal. I had done couple of internships there and got a PPO from them.

    I think what it takes to make the cut and land a Tier-I law firm job (or any job for that matter) is demonstrating or signalling to the firm or the interviewer that you really want it, and most importantly convey to the firm that once in you will be willing to put in the hard work and that your ambition matches that of the firms’.  Be clear on why you want to join a particular firm and show confidence in your ability.

    Personally I don’t have any fixed criteria for assessing a newly qualified candidate – of course for a senior level hire relevant experience becomes key. For NQ hires, what I look for in a candidate is whether he/she feels bad if their work is criticised and take that criticism to improve the next piece of work they give me. Also, I put a premium of how confident they are in defending their work and do they take pride in the piece of work they hand over to me.

     

    What is the level importance given to a student’s Grade Point Average with respect to recruitment at Tier-I firms?

    CGPA is important, but it is not the be all and end all. CGPA serves as an indication of the capability of the candidate (not always accurately – for example a candidate may have a good CGPA because of good grades in social sciences but may not have done that well in commercial law subjects), but equally important is the sense of confidence, ambition and the commitment to put in the hard work to back that ambition. Also, commercial law firms look for candidates who have a genuine interest in how businesses work and how this may affect the clients the candidate will be working with – this will become more and more important as the clients become more sophisticated and start demanding that their lawyers understand their businesses in order to provide more tailored solutions.

     

    How do you say interns should go about their work at a firm like Trilegal, so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    As I said earlier, you cannot repeat mistakes and you need to use all feedback and criticism to improve your next piece of work during an internship. Be prepared to defend your and most importantly each piece of work you hand over to your senior should be the best you can do.  Also, you need to show the commitment – be in office on time, don’t leave without completing your work and respect deadlines.

    Also, I have noticed that most interns complain that they don’t get to work with partners – in a big firm you will hardly get that opportunity – remember that the SA/associate you are working with has much more practical experience than you and you can learn a lot from them. If you are good, they will recommend you to the partners. Most firms usually rely on the feed-back received from SA/associates in giving PPOs to interns.

     

    What was the reason for your transition from Trilegal to Herbert Smith Freehills LLP (London)?

    After completing my masters I applied to various law firms in London, and was accepted by a few including Herbert Smith. At that time international law firms were recruiting a lot of Indian lawyers in the hope that Indian market will be opening up for them soon – I felt it was a great opportunity to get some international experience under my belt and may be come back to India as part of an international firm when the market open.

    I think Trilegal is the closest you can get to an international firm in India – it is very professionally run and they believe in doing first class business in a first class manner. So the bedding-in at Herbies from a work culture perspective wasn’t a big challenge. However, the focus at all major international law firms is on specialisation and the business understanding of the partners about their clients’ business is tremendous – they encourage you to become a legal-commercial advisor as opposed to limiting yourself to a pure legal advisory role. Also, the support system (in the form of knowledge management/precedent banks etc.) that fee earners have is far ahead of what we have in India – even in a place like Trilegal which is very forward looking in these areas.

     

    Why did you then choose to come back to India?

    I chose to come back to India because the action was shifting to India (and other emerging markets). Because of the way Indian firms are structured and their size (as compared to firms like Herbert Smith), in India you tend to get thrown in to the deep end much quicker than you would be in a foreign firm – I thought I was missing all the excitement in India. Also, it was evident that the India legal market wasn’t going to open up anytime soon, and it was a time for me to make a decision about whether I wanted to stay for the medium-long term in London or come back to India – I chose India because of the sheer volume of deals happening in India.

     

    What was the rationale behind moving to a smaller firm (HSA Advocates)?

    I felt I was beginning to get typecasted in Trilegal as a regulatory-advisory lawyer and I wasn’t doing as many deals I would have liked – especially on the Energy M&A side of things. The fact was that there were quite a few other M&A partners at Trilegal who were looking to specialise in M&A deals in Energy/Infrastructure sectors and therefore building a niche for myself as an Energy/Infrastructure and Energy/Infrastructure M&A specialist at Trilegal may have been difficult.

    HSA, though smaller than Trilegal, was doing a fair bit of transactional work in the Energy & Infrastructure space and was a leading name in the Energy & Infrastructure space, and I joined them with an understanding that I will continue doing transactional work in the Energy & Infrastructure work and also try and build up my M&A practice focused on the Energy & Infrastructure space leveraging my regulatory and transactional experience in the Energy & Infrastructure space- thankfully, I was able to do that and today 60-70% of the work that my team handles is related to M&A/JVs in the Energy & Infrastructure space – the rest being regulatory and transactional work in the Energy & Infrastructure space.

     

    Tell us about your current work profile as Partner at IndusLaw.

    My practice focuses on all commercial law aspects of Energy & Infrastructure, and we advise various Indian and overseas project developers on a range of issues relating to development of energy and infrastructure projects, including in relation to development contracts, off-take arrangements, regulatory issues. We also act for financial and strategic investors on energy/infrastructure M&A deals particularly in relation to structured acquisition of infrastructure and energy assets (including large portfolio deals, single-asset deals and joint ventures). However we have been so busy in the renewable energy field that I keep joking that our practice is 100% renewables, 80% infrastructure, and the rest regulatory advisory.

    There is no regular day and each day is different – this is the charm of being a commercial lawyer and the drawback too since you can never plan your day. I show up knowing what I am going to be working on that day but them something comes out of the left side of the field and derails all my plans and I end up fire-fighting the rest of the day.

    On a good day, I typically work on maybe three to four different matters and on a bad day, I feel like I am jumping from one foot to the next, and maybe work on seven to eight different matters – typical tasks includes reviewing drafts, con-calls, attending negotiations, responding to email, setting-up business development meetings, sending out pitches for new work etc. etc.

    Having had experience working at a Tier-I firm as well as a Tier-II firm, which of these would you recommend for a fresh recruit who’s aspiring to obtain a placement right out of law school?

    Both have their pros and cons – I would suggest that as a newly qualified lawyer the best place to begin one’s  career is a firm experiencing a steep growth trajectory and which is professionally run. In a place like that a newly qualified lawyer will get the maximum exposure to varied and good quality work, and will be able to choose a specialisation. Also, since the firm is growing fast, the money will probably also be good – which is important too no doubts.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    I am not one for making long term plans. But hopefully ten years on I will still be advising companies in doing deals the energy and infrastructure space – basically keep doing what I love and be a better lawyer thanks to ten more years of experience. Ten years hence if I am in a position to advice governments /regulatory bodies and able to shape some of the policies governing the energy and infrastructure sectors I think that will be the icing on the cake. Also, I won’t mind being able to buy an Aston Martin in ten years.

     

    What would your parting words be for our readers?

    If anyone reading this wants to become a commercial lawyer I would advise them to develop a genuine interest in and understand how businesses work, choose some sectors to focus on (I believe even in India the days of a generalist lawyer is limited), and keep updated will developments (legal and business related) which may affect the clients operating in his or her chosen sectors of focus. Finally, I would say work hard and more importantly work smart.

  • Tanmay Amar, Director-Legal, Omidyar Network, on transactional law, working with Luthra & Luthra, and his diverse experience

    Tanmay Amar, Director-Legal, Omidyar Network, on transactional law, working with Luthra & Luthra, and his diverse experience

    Tanmay Amar graduated from the National Law School of India University, Bangalore, in 2006. Immediately after graduation, he joined Luthra & Luthra Law Offices in New Delhi. He spent nearly seven years there, before moving in house with Sequoia Capital India, in Bangalore, where he spent almost three and a half years. And he has been with Omidyar Network as Director – Legal for the last five months.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • Working at Luthra & Luthra
    • His diverse experience

    Are you a first generation lawyer?

    Technically not, practically yes. My mother qualified as a lawyer, and she did practice for a few years, but had stopped practising well before I was born (soon after the birth of my elder brother – she chose to give up her legal practice), so I never really got to see her as a lawyer, nor did we have any conversations around law/ legal developments.

    I did find the Civics classes in school interesting, but what really motivated me to consider applying for law school was Perry Mason. I was fascinated with Perry Mason books, though he didn’t influence me enough to conclusively choose law as a career. Towards the end of my school days, I was still considering multiple careers, but once I got through to NLS, Bangalore, I decided to go for it, given its reputation and standing.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while at NLSIU? 

    Yes, I absolutely loved participating in co-curricular activities. I found it quite enjoyable and ended up taking part in almost everything. I mooted, took part in client counselling/ negotiation competitions, quizzed, did dumb charades/ what’s the good word/ Pictionary/ antakshari, debate adjudication, danced (awkwardly) for the class on western and eastern music inter-class group dance events, organized various events, was vice-president of the student body, wrote articles, was on the editorial board of our flagship journal, went for a couple of legal literacy programmes where you educate people on their rights under law, represented the class in a couple of inter-class sports events, was active on the hostel management committee (general welfare committee), conducted orientation for juniors, once even went for a student protest in Bangalore against S. 377, IPC. So, there was very little I didn’t do in terms of co-curricular activities in college. Did well in some, was happy to merely participate in others. I probably spent 80-90% of my time in co-curricular activities and am happy that I did that. I felt like I made the most of the opportunities at college and generally look back with very fond memories.

    I would pay attention in most classes, that helped ensure I was doing decently in academics, apart from studying before exams.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Most of my internships were litigation based – I did later wish that I had gone for more diversity. It was generally exciting just going to court, witnessing proceedings up close, particularly in the trial courts. I picked up stuff about court procedures and how things work practically. I can’t say that I picked up a new skillset or that my internships shaped my career in any significant way though.

    My most memorable internship was with Mr. Parag Tripathi, a senior advocate in Delhi. He had received a brief for opinion from a company and he asked me to prepare the draft response – this was early on, in my internship. He was very happy with the draft and barely changed a few words here and there, and thereafter gave me a fair bit of research, to help him prepare for his cases. The confidence he reposed in me was gratifying. It felt great being useful in real cases at a young age.

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    One learns how to find the law in college. However, finding the right answer is not enough anymore once you become a lawyer. You have specific problems to solve, and apply the law to find solutions. You may have done that in moot courts and internships while in college, but not often enough.

    Also, most lawyers in their early years are required to put in long hours, so one does tend to miss the free time one had earlier. If you are in a corporate law firm, you do enjoy the money that comes with it. As one of my friends had put it, you go straight from 8 pm to Black Label when you move from college to a law firm.

    You are usually required to focus on areas of law, which cater to the requirements of your clients/ organization, which may not match your areas of interest. In college, you could have focused a lot more on areas, which interested you. However, your advice / work actually impacts real world decisions and when you see that happen, it can be immensely satisfying.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with the latest legal developments and industry news?

    I follow the news, online legal blogs and keep and keep an eye out for notifications from regulators in my area of work. Also, receiving alerts from law firms we engage is helpful. I am afraid I am not able to read as many cases as I would have liked to, but once in a while, I do read original judgements. For industry news, I rely on online editions of financial newspapers and some specific sites catering to the industry or on social media.

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at the Luthra & Luthra Law Offices.

    When I started, the team I joined had a lot of regulatory advisory work (it later expanded to work on a lot more transactions), so there was a lot to learn, as we do very little work on that in college. My first boss, Mr. Dudeja, was a chartered accountant cum lawyer, and it was an education to see him piece together effective transaction structures while navigating tricky regulatory restrictions. We got thrown into the deep end early, there were client interactions from the first few months onwards. In the first couple of years, there were many long days and some overnighters. However, I had a group of peers – there were some eight to nine of us from our batch, who hung out together at work and beyond. We got along very well and watched each other’s backs and made life easy for each other generally. Was thankful to have that group around me and we still remain close friends. And the firm was still not very large then, so one had easy access to the senior management like Mr. Luthra and Mr. Saraf, who were quite receptive to our suggestions and inputs. It helped me feel like an integral part of the firm and acted as motivation to work hard and do well.

     

    As the Managing Associate at the Luthra & Luthra Law Offices, what were the roles and responsibilities you took up?

    There was of course legal advisory work, which one needs to do at any level in a law firm, but with varying levels of involvement. In addition, mentorship was a very important aspect of the role – that involved sharing your perspective and experience with the juniors in your team, the two most critical things a mentor can provide a protégé. Client management was another large part of the role. One also had to do more administration work like reviewing description of billable hours and ensuring invoices were raised on time, and followed up on. At some point of time, one was expected to start business development as well, but I left before I could get to the deep end there.

     

    Having worked there for over six years, what did you enjoy most about the experience?

    There was a familial feel to things there, which is hard to replicate. I made a great set of friends there, met some exceptionally smart people and toiled hard. Got to learn a lot – there was plenty to pick up from the seniors there. I still enjoy an excellent relationship with people from Luthra.

     

    What motivated your move to Sequoia Capital? 

    Professionally, I felt that I needed to do something different after spending more than six years in Luthra. Some of the excitement from the early years had gone and I wanted a change of scene. I had done a fair number of transactions in my latter years in Luthra and had taken a shine to them, but wanted to have more perspective on them from a client’s side. And this opportunity came along, which was very appealing, so I went for it.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    It is not that easy to choose. You are usually steered by your organization’s needs. It may be possible to choose one of the areas you constantly work on, and develop an interest in that, but your choice may not be too broad. I do envy those who still manage to spend substantial time engaging in projects they have always been passionate about. I do not try to consciously build a specific body of work.

     

    Could your share some of the interesting cases/projects you have worked on and how they have helped build your career as it stands today?

    There was a transaction, which I did in my second year at Luthra, which shaped me and my career in a significant way. There was an overseas fund, which was investing in India for the first time and had engaged Luthra. I was on the team with a couple of seniors, but in the week that the client’s team was flying in to Mumbai for negotiations, both seniors ended up being unavailable for pressing personal reasons and I ended up leading the transaction, by default. It was not terribly complex, but there were a couple of unchartered regulatory issues to be addressed, and it was a little scary, considering that I was less than eighteen months into the profession. However, I put my head down and applied my mind and came through in good stead for the client. The general counsel of the fund was very appreciative of my work, and sent a glowing commendation specifically mentioning me to Mr. Luthra at the end of the deal, who forwarded it to the firm. That transaction gave me a lot of confidence and standing within the firm. It also steered me towards more transactional work in the future. The fund invested infrequently in India, but they did request for me to be staffed on the team each time.

     

    What does a typical work day look like for you?

    It varies a fair bit. There may an odd term sheet to review some day, on another I may be reviewing transaction documents, sometimes there will be negotiations on the documents, sometimes you meet founders / their team and discuss legal issues they are facing on current/ new projects, sometimes you meet people from the law firms, you generally engage. On a few occasions, you spend time reading up on law, or having calls with counsel in other jurisdictions trying to understand local law and apply to it your proposed investments there. Sometimes there are simple internal issues to deal with – like agreements with new vendors or getting corporate secretarial processes completed.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests?

    As long as the work is done, there is a fair amount of flexibility in terms of not being required to be physically present in office, so that helps. I have a toddler, so in the last couple of years, my kid has been the focus of most of my free time, but I do like to read. I spend around half an hour everyday reading myself to sleep and read more, if I get the time, particularly when I am travelling. Apart from reading, I am an avid sports fan. I love cricket, but also follow several other sports, particularly if Indian athletes are playing. I am constantly on cricinfo, when an India match is on, if not in front of the TV. I have recently learnt to swim and am trying to spend more time practising that.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers who are inclined to developing a proficiency in Corporate Laws?

    One needs to understand commercials and business to be able to provide sound legal corporate advice. This may require a fair amount of extra reading, but unless that is done, one won’t understand the rationale behind various business decisions / requirements and one won’t be able to provide effective legal advice. One would be providing academic advice instead of marrying legal solutions to commercial requirements. One may be a great legal researcher, with impeccable analytical skills, but rarely do clients come to you for a simple opinion, they usually come to you to solve their legal problems and you can’t help unless you learn to create legal solutions that match business requirements. It is often a balancing act to find the perfect solution – sometimes you may need to suggest alternations to the business plan to provide an effective legal solution, which you can do only if you understand the business well enough to know what alternates would be acceptable and what not, from a commercial point of view.

  • Siboney Sagar, Founder, Resolve, on studying in NLSIU, qualifying the NY Bar, and her diverse experience

    Siboney Sagar, Founder, Resolve, on studying in NLSIU, qualifying the NY Bar, and her diverse experience

    Siboney Sagar graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 1998. She then went on to pursue her Master’s degree from Columbia Law School, with a focus on Corporate Law, International Law and International Affairs. She has worked in the Chambers of (then) Attorney General of India, Advocate Soli J. Sorabjee. Since then she has worked with AMSS as Associate, GE Consumer and Industrial as General Counsel and later as Vice President-Legal and Compliance. In 2015, she founded her own firm, Resolve, a dispute resolution forum, where she’s Managing Partner.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Working under Advocate Soli J. Sorabjee
    • Her illustrious career and diverse experience
    • Founding and managing Resolve

    How much of your success would you owe to your alma mater, NLSIU?

    The education curriculum and delivery at NLSIU has been geared for understanding and experiencing the rigors and breadth of lawyering. I benefited from the tight schedules and deliverables but most of all from the fraternity and the size and comfort of the community.

     

    Did you moot, or engage in any extra curricular activities? 

    I engaged in the legal services clinic, on the editorial team for publication and was very active in the Sports and Cultural Committees. Extra-curricular of both, related to law and otherwise, are most relevant. The legally oriented activities open a window to the world ahead and the non-legal activities allow us to engage and collaborate with persons other than our immediate peers.

     

    Tell us about pursuing your Masters from New York’s Columbia University. 

    Columbia has been a very defining experience. I used the opportunity to engage in many different courses and also expanded my view of the legal profession.

     

    Can you give us some clarity on the application process?

    I applied to the universities that had separate LLM classes along with options to study with complementary schools and courses. The university looks at grades, statements and experiences that realistically define your personality to fit with their goals and aspirations for their graduates.

     

    How did you prepare for the New York State Bar?

    The New York (NY) Bar is a rigorous exam and there are professional companies for preparation of the same. I attended BAR BRI and had a wonderful group of frats for study work. The NY Bar is one of the most challenging exams for the sheer size of the material.

     

    What did your role at Soli Sorabjee’s entail?

    When I joined the chambers of Soli J. Sorabjee, he was the Attorney General for India and the work was very diverse. While working with the counsel representing important matters for the Union of India, the teaching in Soli J. Sorabjee Chambers has helped not only the formative years but until today the great lessons of research, organisation and approach to an issue are invaluable and useful in different ways.

     

    How was your stint at AMSS? 

    I loved my stint at AMSS. I worked with the Infrastructure Corporate Team during my time there. The quality of clients as well as the resources were very relevant to support my venture being a commercial attorney.

     

    Tell us about what makes a good lawyer in a corporate setting.

    (Siboney was the General Counsel at GE Consumer & Industrial (India), and has been duly recognized for your efforts.)

    A good lawyer in a corporate setting is benefited by using their client-counselling skills along with always expanding their commercial and service their understanding.

     

    How would you say work as an in-house counsel was different than that of a law firm?

    An in-house counsel carries the responsibility for the execution of the legal advice further than an attorney advising or assisting from a law firm. In addition, an in-house counsel is required to almost always extend their capacity and creativity to manage commercial expectations while balancing the rigor of compliance.

     

    Can you elucidate further on the in-house options for law students? 

    Today in-house lawyers function like large law firms which gives lawyers many opportunities after graduating. In case you plan on working in-house, it is a good opportunity as it creates and develops subject area expertise along with the position and designation of legal skills.

     

    What motivated you to start ‘Resolve’?

    (Siboney has founded ‘Resolve’ which is an initiative geared towards encouraging and catering to private mediation in India.)

    Resolve is a forum for developing conflict resolution and conflict negotiation capacities as the backdrop to panels of practioners of mediation, conciliation and arbitration. A whole series of serendipitous events have led to the evolution of Resolve. My experience as a General Counsel with the status of execution, implementation and the viability of litigation and the balance with commercial realities have shaped my perspective so much. Further, the personal learning toward productive, creative and viable solutions, with the tendency to look for the most utilitarian and commensurate options, shaped my negotiation style in conflicts. Also, the skills discovered and developed really allowed me to appreciate the varied uses of the legal, analytical and creative process. The result has been the development of Resolve which is in its initial years of finding the appropriate space.

    I truly believe in advancing stages of negotiation, collaboration and mediation which will be most relevant as the world shrinks.

     

    How do you manage a work-life balance?

    If life takes a back-seat then that’s where we will find ourselves. In the back seat!

    I practise yoga and teach when possible, travel to discover myself and others, and try to keep myself in the front seat as far as my breath and brain go!

     

    Being eligible to practice both in India, and in New York, what are the notable differences of being a lawyer in both these jurisidictions?

    I have worked as a commercial lawyer in different jurisdictions. As I have not practiced before the courts in New York, I cannot comment.

    As commercial lawyers, counsel from different cultures bring that nuance to their style and approach, while the commerce dictates the functional attributes of the lawyering at any court.

     

    What are you currently working on?

    Nurturing and providing direction to Resolve has been the mainstay while developing personal practise as mediator, conflict speacialist, coach and counsel.

    I am teaching a course on negotiation and conflict at NLSIU, Bangalore this year. I have also taught at ISB, Hyderabad to train corporate leaders as well as counsel in adavanced negotiation, conflict management and effective dispute resolution.

    It’s an exciting and daunting time to develop some ideas, curriculum and skill enhancement workshops for us at Resolve.

     

    Would you have some words of advice for our readers, who are mostly prospective lawyers themselves?

    Practice! Practice! Practice! Whatever it is you are doing at this time, put your energy to it even it is devastatingly boring. Anything you do with intent gives you a lesson that is useful anytime especially in the diverse practice of law.

    Allow the creative streak to develop as it’s a misnomer that lawyers are only intellectually inclined. You have many avenues to best use lawyering skills (so spare the friends and family from arguments)!

     

  • Neha Mishra, Doctoral Candidate, University of Melbourne, on international practice, qualifying the Bar, and being a solicitor in UK

    Neha Mishra, Doctoral Candidate, University of Melbourne, on international practice, qualifying the Bar, and being a solicitor in UK

    Neha Mishra graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, batch of 2008. After a brief stint at Herbert Smith, she went on to pursue her masters in Public International Law, from the London School of Economics and Political Science. Since then, she’s served as Lecturer at NLSIU, and as Associate at Economic Laws Practice, before pursuing a second master’s degree in Public Policy from National University of Singapore. She is currently a Doctoral Candidate at The University of Melbourne.

    In this interview, we speak to her about:

    • Her teaching experience
    • Practising internationally
    • Balancing extracurricular interests with academics

     

    How did you get into the field of law?

    Well, it is hard to remember what got me interested in law as a teenager. I think I was driven by instinct, rather than a rational decision. However, I did feel that the legal profession would be to my liking (of course, some of it may have been a result of watching ultra-glamorized legal dramas on TV). I think it was actually during my years at law school that I built up my motivation to learn more about the field – I was really inspired by several of my teachers and guest lecturers, as well as many of my classmates, who had such a natural flair for legal argumentation and writing.

     

    How is your experience being a Doctoral Candidate in Melbourne Law School, University of Melbourne?

    The decision to join Melbourne Law School was largely based on my interview with my current supervisors at the university. They were extremely engaged with the process of mentoring their doctoral students, and it seemed that the school would be an excellent place to pursue my research. The experience so far has been positive, and I have perhaps got more than what I had expected. It also helps that Melbourne has a very vibrant, multicultural feel to it.

     

    Tell us about being admitted to the Bar in India and also having qualified as a solicitor in the UK.

    The system for bar admission in India was different when I graduated. I didn’t need to take an examination – it was actually pretty straightforward. However, in UK, I needed to take an exam to qualify as a solicitor. The process was made very easy by the firm I was working for at that time. The exam was not particularly hard, but required some level of effort and systematic studying. I think dual qualification is really helpful if you want to pursue an international career.

     

    How do you go about teaching?

    (Neha was invited to teach undergraduate courses in National Law School of India University, and was even invited back because of the popularity of one of her courses.)

     I think it is hard to suggest one particular method of teaching or instruction as such – a lot depends on the context – the subject matter, the number of students, the evaluation criteria, the key objectives of the course (for instance, theory-oriented versus practice-oriented).  However, a couple of things that I valued as a teacher were: (a) I wanted students to engage in the class and in their assignments with an open mind, without fear or prescription, and to reflect on their original thoughts and arguments–to that extent, I always welcomed arguments that challenged my lectures and new ideas for evaluation; and (b) I think a lot of course materials and teaching/evaluation methods need to updated so as to keep it relevant, which means that teachers need to continuously update themselves too. If you have nothing new to offer, I feel students start feeling disengaged from the process. However, it is not always possible to experiment, given the administrative and logistics limitations at institutions.

    How did you develop an interest in languages?

    I have always loved learning languages – but to be honest, my approach has largely been casual, and mostly driven by personal interest. Sometimes, learning a new language was also circumstantial–for instance, I had to speak a basic level of Japanese, when I spent a few months in Tokyo. I know a lot of people who pursue this hobby much more seriously than I do and have a high level of fluency at least in two or three languages–I hope in the future I can engage more seriously with this pursuit. I feel learning a new language often helps to learn about a new culture, plus it makes travelling a lot more fun. I also wish that in the future, the education system in India (both at school and at university level) increases focus on learning both vernacular and foreign languages more seriously.

    What do you think are the most important skills any aspiring lawyer should possess?

    I think there are some basic skills lawyers should try to cultivate early on–attention to detail, a clear writing style, and a general awareness of issues in the society. Most of these skills are sharpened in course of studying and then practising law. I would suggest students to take studies in law school seriously, not necessarily from a grade point of view, but from a learning point of view. The other thing is to continuously upgrade one’s drafting and research skills–I think getting feedback from peers and your superiors (teachers, bosses) is a also a great way to improve. Finally, I think legal practice or writing requires a certain level of confidence that largely comes with thoroughness and sincerity. As a lawyer, one needs to remember that the learning process is always ongoing.

     

    What makes a well-rounded résumé?

    I think it is hard to prescribe what a good résumé should contain. Of course, to get admission into most top schools, grades matter. But there are several other factors at play–I think it is up to every student to capitalise on their strengths, and present them effectively in their resume and personal statement. It also depends on what one’s end goals are – pursuing higher studies may require a higher academic orientation, while pursuing a corporate career may require a greater focus on internships, practical experience. What is most important is to enjoy one’s time at law school, by learning as much as one can, not only from the books or course materials, but also from one’s teachers and classmates. Co-curricular activities not only taught me essential legal skills (for instance, while mooting or doing legal aid work) but also taught me to work in teams and build long-term friendships. I think students should aim to achieve a balance between academic pursuits and co-curricular activities, in a manner that suits their personality and long-term interests/goals.

     

    What has it been like working in so many different countries?

    I would say the biggest adjustment (or rather lesson) is to work with people from different cultures. Of course, practising across different legal systems requires some unlearning and re-learning. But as long as one’s legal basics are grounded, it is not the biggest challenge. I think the biggest challenge is being able to adjust to different working styles in different countries, and reading into different cultural codes. I think if one has an open mind and a high level of awareness of one’s environment, it becomes easier with time to work across different countries or cultures. Perhaps, in today’s world, it is a necessity for most lawyers, even if they work within a single jurisdiction.

    What are your hobbies outside of work?

    I like to learn languages, as I mentioned previously. I also love travelling and trying out cooking new cuisines.

    If you could, what would you tell yourself in your first year of your B.A. LL.B.?

    I think I would tell myself to be more proactive in classroom discussions, and be less intimidated by people who spoke a lot more in class. I would also tell myself that if I just focused on learning, the good grades would come automatically.

    What message would you like to leave our readers with?

    I think the more one enjoys the process of learning, the higher are the chances of becoming an accomplished lawyer. Also, it is important to relax, have fun and make friends at law school–life as a legal professional can be highly demanding and rigorous, and the opportunities available at law school never really come back.