Super Lawyer

Tag: NLSIU

  • Vikram Raghavan, Lead Counsel, World Bank, on work experience and authoring legal books and articles

    Vikram Raghavan, Lead Counsel, World Bank, on work experience and authoring legal books and articles

    Vikram Raghavan graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore with eight gold medals in diverse fields of law in the year 1997 and then went to pursue his masters from New York University. Right after that he started work as an attorney at O’Melveny & Myers, an international law firm in New York City.

    Currently Vikram is currently a Lead Counsel at the World Bank in Washington, DC, and he advises on conflict, fragility, refugees, and macroeconomics. Among other things, he provides legal advice about military coups; United Nations sanctions; debt relief; and loan conditionality. He has authored a book titled Communications Law in India (LexisNexis, 2006) and co-edited a volume of essays: Comparative Constitutionalism in South Asia (Oxford University Press, 2013). His articles are reflected in The Hindu and Economics and Political Weekly.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Choosing law as a profession and his experience at NLSIU, Bangalore and New York University;
    • The art of managing life at law school and to develop interests in different curricular activities;
    • His formative years as a lawyer and his time at O’Melveny & Myers, New York City.
    • His early life at World Bank as a counsel and moving ahead and becoming the lead counsel at the World Bank.

     

    What made you opt for law as a career?

    Well, I was always interested in argumentation. My father was a lawyer and my grandfather was a lawyer as well. But the family profession, so to speak, influenced my decision only so much. When I was about thirteen years old, I read Prashant Bhushan’s book “The Case That Shook India.” I always wanted to do what he did and what he described about the court room drama.

    However, it wasn’t an easy decision because at that time law was not considered to be a prestigious profession. The National Law School had just started and not even a single judge had graduated. So, there was a lot of uncertainty about it and ultimately, the fact was I didn’t want to do science. I had taken commerce and my only options were doing economics, commerce or something else entirely. So, law looked like an attractive idea because NLSIU had just started. I gave myself a year to see if law suited me, if it had not- I guess I had an option of coming back to economics.

     

    Could you tell us about your life before you joined college? Where did your interests lie during your school days?

    During school, I was a stamp collector first and foremost. Philately, as a hobby, shaped my interest in world events and in general knowledge. I also obtained a lot of confidence in public speaking by speaking at the South India Philatelists Association’s second Sunday meetings in Madras. Everyone who attended had to speak. So it was a nice way to get rid of adolescent stage fright.

     

    What curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate while being in university?

    Well, it was an intense period of five years. The schedule of studies, as you would know, at any National law school is quite demanding. There are deadlines for something or the other, every other week — project submissions, moot courts, mid-terms, and end terms. So I spent most of time by trying to catch up and be on top of the different deadlines that would come.

    Of course, when I was in college, there was no proper Internet. The campus itself did not have many facilities besides the library, which closed at 6.00 p.m. And you could borrow only three books. So I couldn’t say I was very productive. But during those five years, I tried my hand at different things. In my first two years, I did judo at the Sports Authority of India campus near the Law School. I tried my hand at quizzing, but there were much better quizzers at the law school than me. To be sure, there were other extra-curricular activities at NLS like sports and debates. But then again the school was filled with many talented students from the best schools in India. I simply did not have the background or training in high school to compete with them.

    The incentive system in the law school was also skewed in favour of mainstream academic excellence. There were three big things you did if you wanted to be noticed: moot courts, grades, and articles. So, basically I spent those five years trying to get good grades. And you know I don’t regret those five years. What I am today is due to those five years of hard work.

     

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    Could you tell about your internship experiences? What sort of internships did you prefer and what learning experiences did you gain from it?

    Well, I did four internships in those five years. The first one was an internship with  R. Gandhi, which involved working on a lot of constitutional law matters. Among others, I worked with T. Sivagnanam, who is currently a judge at the Madras High Court and on the law school’s governing council as well I think. I also interned with N. Paul Vasanthakumar, the current chief justice of Jammu and Kashmir as well Ravi Chandra Babu, who is also now a judge. These judges were the three lawyers who I worked most closely with during my first internship. The second internship was in the Madras High Court focusing on criminal law under N.T Vanamamalai, a senior advocate. In my fourth year, I worked with K.K. Venugopal and in my fifth year I went to Sri Lanka to work with the Tamil leader, Dr. Neelan Tiruchelvam on the constitution-making process.

     

    Straight after your under-graduation you went abroad to pursue masters at New York university. What was your experience at NYU and what all differences did you notice in quality of education at NLSIU and NYU?

    Well, obviously the facilities over NLSIU were rudimentary. New York University had a lot more facilities. The library was out of this world and the NLS library in those days was still getting built. In those days, we didn’t have the internet so, you know things were different. Also American law schools are rigorous. They put a lot of effort into preparation before class. So, if you don’t read up and come to class then it would be difficult for you to follow.

     

    Could you please tell us about the skills and preparation needed for the moots, building arguments and the way to read a judge’s mind and what are the criteria’s a judge chooses to mark the participant?

    (Vikram has represented India at Philip C. Jessup moot court competition and he also served as the executive council member till the year 2011.)

    Mooting is something that I strongly recommend because I think it really helps in court craft and you it helps you dig deep into a legal subject. When I was a law student there weren’t so many moots like you have today. More number of moots are opportunities for people to learn and explore. Eeveryone at NLS has to compete internally first for it, and the internal competitions were in itself very intense. These competitions conducted across the different classes, which meant you had to argue against the seniors who know more law than you do.

    This was a good process, because it forced you to basically go out of your comfort zone and learn new things very quickly. Participating in the Jessup, no doubt, enhanced my interest in international law. Probably my career today is based on that experience.

     

    You have been an associate at O’Melveny & Myers LLP, An International Law firm. Could you please tell us the experience there?

    That was just after NYU. I spent three years at O’Melveny. I worked on corporate and transactional work and also some litigation, basically international arbitration. It was a very intense experience, because U.S Law firms practice law in a way that is very demanding.  I think the main thing for me was to be able to practice law with very smart lawyers and clients.

     

    You were the editor of NYU Journal of International law and politics. Could please tell us the role you played and what all things did you achieve during your tenure as an editor?

    I wasn’t the editor. A friend of mine was an editor. I was just a graduate editor. If you look at the cover page it has many editors and editor is mostly just a title. I was involved in proof reading some of the articles. I don’t know what the editorial process is like now in Indian law school but it was certainly different from what we did at NLS. At NYU, a lot of care and attention was taken to ensure that the articles are selected properly and carefully formatted and cross-checked. It is a very rigorous exercise.

     

    Could you please tell us about your recruitment at the World Bank and initial days of work? Is it possible for a law student to get an internship at the World Bank?

    (Vikram started at World Bank as a counsel and now he is the lead counsel of operational policy at the World Bank.)

    After three years at a law firm, I applied for and got hired as a counsel at the World Bank. When I came first here, I was given Sri Lanka and Nepal and later Afghanistan and Iraq. That experience was really worth in a way shaped my profile at the bank, working with conflict prone countries, and more unstable countries. I think it was an exciting portfolio for any lawyer to do because it has a mixture of law and policy. Working on a World Bank project is, in itself, a very challenging and rewarding thing. Sadly, we don’t offer regular internships at the World Bank’s legal department. Most of our interns come from institutional partners like NYU who pay the students a stipend. The World Bank does not have the budget nor can we take unpaid interns.

     

    Could please tell us how to develop writing skills to our readers who are mostly law students?

    (Vikram has authored a book on communications law in India and co-edited volumes of essays on comparative constitutionalism in South Asia, his articles are reflected in the editorial columns of The Hindu and Economic and Political Weekly.)

    I would recommend students read the work of Bryan A. Garner. He advocates writing simply and elegantly. Read his work. And you will write very differently. I guarantee it.

     

    How did you to continue to maintain the love for history, economics and law, despite such hectic schedule in life?

    It is always a challenge. Every day, every minute you have to find time to do different things.

     

    What would be your message to the young law students and budding lawyers?

    Well keep working hard, and I believe whoever keeps working hard basically succeeds. It doesn’t matter what school you go to or what grades you get, your hard work helps you. Gain expertise in the subjects that interest you. Build a brand for yourself.

  • Ramanand Mundkur, Managing Partner, Mundkur Law Partners, on building his career in corporate law

    Ramanand Mundkur, Managing Partner, Mundkur Law Partners, on building his career in corporate law

    Ramanand Mundkur graduated from National Law School of India University (1989-1994). He is the managing partner of Mundkur Law Partners, and heads its corporate, M&A and life science practices. He has over twenty years of international work experience, having previously worked with the International Monetary Fund in Washington DC, the United Nations in Geneva, and Arthur Andersen in India before setting up MLP in 2007.

    Ramanand won multiple academic gold medals when graduating from India’s leading National Law School, and also holds a master’s degree from Harvard Law School, where he was a Langdon E. Gammon fellow and a Myer and Etta Dana scholar. He is qualified to practice law in India and New York.

     

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His areas of interest in law.
    • His experience at International Monetary Fund in Washington DC.
    • How his experience at Harvard prepared him for a life of academic prestige and professional success.
    • What he looks for in a typical cover letter and CV.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’m a corporate and transactional lawyer, based out of Bangalore.

     

    What led you to choose legal profession?

    I entered law school entirely by accident. A friend suggested me to appear for the NLSIU entrance exam and I got in. But after the first class at NLSIU (which I still remember vividly, with Dr. Menon repeatedly asking us “What is law?” and no answer being complete or satisfactory), I was hooked. I can’t think of any other subject or profession that provides the intellectual fulfillment that law does.

    So while I might have chosen law school by accident, I chose the law as a profession very deliberately. I suppose we were incredibly lucky to have been around when NLSIU was just set up, and to have that fantastic group of teachers who kindled our passion for the law.

     

    What were your areas of interest in the law? Did you engage in extracurricular activities while in college?

    One of my greatest difficulties has been identifying one or two “areas of interest” in the law—I found them all fascinating. I probably chose corporate law and public international law because they offered economic stability fairly early in my career and because the other areas of law e.g., constitutional law, criminal law, property, evidence, etc. didn’t appeal to me.

    Being part of the first few batches of NLSIU, I was lucky enough to be able to participate in pretty much all the extracurricular activities on offer: mooting, debating, quizzes, theatre, music (a bunch of us euphemistically called ourselves a band), cricket, football and whatever else was available to us.

     

    You have worked with the International Monetary Fund in Washington DC. Please share your experience.

    The Fund is a fantastic place to work at and I miss both the people there and the work I did. As a lawyer, I initially worked on the legal aspects of Fund relations with member countries (both borrowing countries as well as other Fund members). Over time, the scope of work widened to cover issues such as the Fund’s internal governance rules (including quotas, voting rights, criteria for recognition of new sates and representation) and technical assistance to certain member countries.

     

    As a Managing Partner of the firm, what is an average day at work like?

    It’s not as attractive as I hoped it would be. A large part of each day is spent on purely administrative issues. Moreover, because we’re a boutique firm, one has to wear many hats—advising clients, bringing in new work, ensuring we stay current with changes in the law, dealing with HR issues, managing firm finances, dealing with firm IT issues, all the way through to being “chief bottle washer” whenever required.

     

    How well did your experience at Harvard prepare you for a life of academic prestige and professional success?

    Harvard is probably the finest example of an enabling environment. As a student there, you’re surrounded by extremely bright, self-motivated individuals and achievers, with infrastructure and resources that are the best in the world. The faculty is outstanding and their areas of work and research are invariably cutting edge or path breaking. At times I felt one could learn and grow just by being there.

     

    What do you want to say to the next generation lawyers? Which are the growing areas of law where a new law student or young lawyer can focus and distinguish himself?

    Questions like that tend to be a little depressing (and ageist)—I’m definitely in no position to take on the role of an avuncular eminence grise—advising “the next generation” of lawyers. One bit of experience I would share with law students, though, is to not chase “growing” areas of the law or the next big thing. Instead, and this is pretty obvious: if you do what you enjoy, you’ll find that you enjoy doing what you do!

     

    Do you take interns? What do you look for in a typical cover letter and CV? How can interns manage to get positive feedback in the limited time they have?

    Yes, we do have an active internship program that works directly with certain law schools. The law schools that we work with in this regard send us CVs of suggested candidates from their senior batches, and we offer internship slots to those candidates through the law schools. As a result, we often find we don’t have slots available for individual applicants, who haven’t applied through their law schools. We encourage law schools to sign on to this program, and the schools’ placement officers can write to us at careers@mundkur.com for this purpose.

    With regard to cover letters and CVs, we look for candidates who have a consistent and reasonably strong academic, and who demonstrate that they’ve spent some time thinking about why they want to apply to our firm, and why our firm might benefit from hiring them.

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    I think this question has been answered. And it also reminds me of one other piece of advice I got early in my career and I’m happy to share with budding lawyers: it’s very important for a lawyer to know when to stop speaking.

  • Ajar Rab, Partner, Rab & Rab Associates, on Dual degree LL.M. and MBA from Germany, NLSIU graduate, on setting up Uttarakhand’s first law firm

    Ajar Rab, Partner, Rab & Rab Associates, on Dual degree LL.M. and MBA from Germany, NLSIU graduate, on setting up Uttarakhand’s first law firm

    Ajar Rab graduated from National Law School Of India University, Bangalore(2006-2011). At present, he is a partner at Rab & Rab Associates LLP, Dehradun and his work ranges from civil litigation, arbitration and corporate transactions.

    He is also an international policy consultant at Lexidale and a Non-Resident Expert at Vidhi where his work includes review of existing laws, policies and regulations, drafting of policy documents, amendments, rules and regulations and research on comparative policy.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience at NLS, Bangalore.
    • His decision to pursue with a dual degree- LL.M. and MBA from Germany.
    • Skills one must require to become a legal consultant.
    • His views on how Indian Universities may improve the education regime.

    How would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life.

    I am a lawyer who grew up in the small hill station of Mussoorie where I studied at St. George’s College. My school lay great emphasis on extra-curricular activities and I was an active debater and loved playing sports. I was very lucky to find good friends with whom I have the fondest memories.

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    My parents are also lawyers. My father is a designated senior advocate at the High Court and my mother has spent over 37 years at the trail courts. I guessed I absorbed things like a sponge, never really seeing the big picture directing my interest in law. Though my parents never told me to become a lawyer, somehow their experiences and narrations about court cases and clients generated a keen interest in law.

    Please share your experience at National Law School of India University, Bangalore, especially as the first student to be elected as President of the Student Bar Association in absentia.

    I feel very lucky and privileged to have had a chance to study at NLS Bangalore. The place changed me for the better and I feel I am an entirely different person, pre and post college. One of my seniors, Nizam Pasha, who was in his final year when I joined, told me “Law School is a land of opportunity” and I don’t think I have better words to describe the place.

    My election to the SBA, while I was on exchange, was sheer benevolence of my batch and my close friends. I am truly grateful to all of them for believing and in me and convincing the others who did not at the time. My term at the SBA was full of various highs and lows. I have no hesitation to admit that it changed my world view forever. I learnt a lot about strategy, politics, negotiation and public perception – something we have to deal with daily as lawyers.

    Why did you decide to pursue higher studies? What was your motivation?

    Working for the general corporate team at Amarchand, I developed an interest in corporate law and transactions. During my time at law school, I always believed I wanted to do only litigation but after working for year, I realized I did not know enough about transactional lawyering so I wanted to pursue higher studies to educate myself.

    Why did you pursue with a dual degree- LL.M. and MBA from Germany? Why Germany and not some IVY League University?

    I chose the Master of Law and Business program at Bucerius Law School/WHU Otto-Beisheim School of Management, which to my mind, was a unique blend of law and business management, geared towards international commercial transactions. The faculty profile included some of the biggest names in academics and industry and the course outlines were structured as practical applications of concepts rather than mere theory. I guess that seemed like the right fit to learn more about the ins and outs of transactions, both from a legal as well as a commercial perspective.

    Do you think that the Indian Law Universities need a change to match up to the standards of foreign Universities? What can be done in order to make NLUs more conducive for learning? How do you think Indian Universities may improve the education regime?

    Definitely, the gap between Indian Law Universities and foreign universities is quite big. I feel our traditional style of classroom instruction is out dated with the dynamic application of concepts we learn in class. Exercise oriented class room discussions are far more fruitful for understanding the theory and applying them. At my masters, our professors gave us case studies which are used in IVY league institutions and we were tested on our analysis and conclusions, rather than simply answering theoretical questions in an examination. I think our universities can adopt a similar approach, but my caveat is that our system of school education should also change to accommodate that kind of learning.

    What are the skills one must acquire to become a legal consultant?

    I think every lawyer is a legal consultant to some extent. The distinction here is more on lawyers who handle litigation in Courts and those that are involved at policy levels or at the level of legal strategy. I don’t think the skills required to become a legal consultant are very different or unique, just that as a consultant, especially a policy consultant, needs to have the broader picture in mind with respect to the ramifications of their advice in various areas.

    Share your work experience as the first law firm of Uttarakhand.

    I consider myself lucky that our firm has had very versatile experience, in terms of the nature of work and the kind of clients. It is not so say that we did not struggle at the beginning but my seniors and friends have been very kind to refer various matters and as a result though it has been only 5 years since my brother setup the law firm, we have represented some of the biggest names in the country such as the Aditya Birla Group, Birla Tyres, Hyatt group of hotels, Rakesh Roshan, Viom Networks etc., for litigation as well as corporate transactions.I guess the cliché holds true “I get by with a little help from my friends”.

    What were the reasons behind leaving Amarchand&Mangaldas and moving to Dehradun?

    I learnt a lot at Amarchand but left to pursue my masters. Moving back to Dehradun is a question I am regularly asked about and have been defending since the time I left Amarchand. My brother had already setup a law firm,Uttarakhand was a promising State and there was scope of transactions here. With my experience, I felt moving back would add to our areas of practice and we will be able to service clients within Uttarakhand and outside if we provide quality legal advice.

    What kind of work you are entrusted with as a non-resident expert?

    My stint with Vidhi has been brief but I was part of a team which was drafting amendments to the Food Safety Act and its Rules.

    Many law students aspire to secure a job. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observation? Please give our readers some tips to nail an interview.

    I think sometimes we tend to over sell ourselves and also forget that the person who is interviewing us has also been on the other side of the table. There is no substitute for sincerity and honesty in an interview. One other thing is that students tend to estimate their value by the size of the pay package being offered. I don’t think that is necessarily true. A pay package is a management decision considering various other aspects and costs than just someone’s qualifications and value. Moreover, freshers applying for a job tend to forget that even though they did really well in law school, practicing law in real life is a different ball game altogether – an experience they definitely lack. The aim early-on should to be take a job which allows maximum exposure and experience, rather than a fat pay cheque.

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers who are mainly young lawyers and law students?

    Law is a field which requires immense patience and experience. We all aspire to be like Mr. Nariman, Mr. Singhvi or Mr. Rohtagi, but we forget how long they have been in practice. They have a name and charge a fee after decades of being in practice. Students today tend to want a similar lifestyle straight out of law school, which leads to frustration. If the aim is to grow your knowledge of law day-by-day, be better lawyers and work towards your clients’ best interests with utmost dedication, I think we all may land up being where the big names are, but only in due time.

  • Seema Pujani, Indian Foreign Services Officer, AIR 37, 2014, on cracking the UPSC, preparation, and preferring Foreign Services

    Seema Pujani, Indian Foreign Services Officer, AIR 37, 2014, on cracking the UPSC, preparation, and preferring Foreign Services

    In this interview, we talk to Seema Pujani, a graduate of NLSIU, Bangalore in the Batch of 2011. After graduating from one of the most premier law schools in the country, she decided to pursue a career in Civil Services. She talks about her double training experience, firstly at the Indian Institute of Foreign Trade after being assigned the Trade Services initially, and secondly at the at Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration for the Foreign Services. She shares her valuable insights with our readers on her experience with the UPSC and her fascinating career graph along with advice on how to crack the toughest exam in the world. This interview includes:

    • Her reasons for choosing the UPSC exam and rejecting an LL.M opportunity.
    • Her reasons for joining the Foreign Services over the Trade Services.
    • Experiences and training at the Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration.
    • Her advice for our readers on cracking the UPSC.

     

    How would you like introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law aspirants, law students and young lawyers?

    A simple person who with some determination finally made diplomacy her calling. A lawyer by education and training but not at heart.  Also enjoys books, music and movies.

     

    Tell our readers a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Do you have lawyers or bureaucrats in your family?

    My father retired from the Haryana Civil Services. He was a lecturer in English in D.A.V College, Amritsar prior to joining the services but completed his graduate and post-graduate studies in law during the course of his career. Currently, he is a legal consultant in Gurgaon. There are some other lawyers as well in my extended family. One of my cousins is a Professor of Law at Osgoode Hall Law School, Toronto, Canada.

    I received most of my schooling in Faridabad. Before the pressure of Board examinations and academics made its headway into life, I used to actively participate in all extra-curricular activities organised in school. To name some: quiz, elocution, recitation, declamation, art and ‘mehendi’ are some of those. Though I never excelled in any sport, I enjoyed swimming. However, academics had always been a priority in the household. Both my elder sisters are doctors specialising in Pathology. Gearing to be an engineer, I had chosen the science stream after class 10th. However, I soon realised that my interests lay in the social sciences and languages that helped me make sense of the world around me. Words also held a peculiar appeal. Thereafter, the decision to appear for law entrance examinations was made in class 12th. A family friend bought me the course material from ‘lawentrance’ and with some preparation, I made it to my dream college.

    You graduated from National Law School of India University, in the year 2011. How would you describe your experience as a student aspiring to study at an NLU? How would you describe your academic life in NLSIU?

    Like the story of the blind men and the elephant, each person has a unique experience in law school to share with others. NLSIU and all other reputed NLUs have a very wide range of opportunities on offer to engage students and hone their personalities. While some take to mooting and debate, others enjoy reading and writing for different journals. Event management, lively interactions, book discussions and movie reviews ensure the plate remains full for all.

    The training here is not just rigorous but the process and content of study deeply influence a person in ways other institutions may not have. Staying in a multicultural environment away from home sharpens one’s sensibilities. I am pretty sure today that the single biggest event of my life so far has been my selection into this premier institute. Owing to the challenging experience, I ended up with such strength and endurance I barely knew myself to be capable of. It is true that most people acquire valuable skills like critical thinking and analysis that can be put to use in a wide range of disciplines. It is rightly said that if you survived law school, you will survive anywhere!

     

    Did you apply abroad for masters?

    I applied only in the Masters of Law and Business program at the Bucerius Law School, Germany and got through the course that was to start in August, 2011. However, three months before joining I took the decision to defer studies in order to appear for the Civil Services entrance examination. It was a painful and difficult decision that haunted me for a long time to come.

     

    You were allotted the Indian Trade Service initially. Why didn’t the Trade service appeal to you?

    The only motivation for me to put my life at a standstill, reject all opportunities that came my way over the long duration of preparation and put in hard work was the dream of entering into India’s diplomatic corps. Therefore, no other service but the IFS appealed to me. I had given a high preference to the ITS while filling out the form in 2013 owing to its job content. It was a rich learning experience.

     

    How was the training at the Indian Institute of Foreign Trade?

    It was great to be trained at a reputed academic institution bustling with energy by experienced faculty and practitioners. Under the aegis of Vijaya Katti Ma’am, Chairperson, Management Development Programme we were exposed to varied aspects of macroeconomics, trade, customs’ procedures, Indian Foreign Trade Policy and law. We even acquired basic skills in French.

     

    What were your Service Preferences?

    Both in 2013 and 2014, I had filled IFS as my first preference followed by IAS.

     

    When and why did you decide for the civil services?

    As a child, I had changed my plans for the future as freely as my imagination let me. Since I grew up with dogs and loved playing with them, I had first set my eyes on becoming a veterinary doctor. Thereafter, I thought of becoming an administrator like my father but growing up, I had come to dislike routine transfers. Joining the civil services was not on my mind as a young law school student. I was interested in social reform, international and humanitarian organisations. In 2009, two seniors happened to visit campus. One of them an IAS officer, Mr Srikar Sridhar and another an IFS officer, Ms Aparna Ray. It was then that the idea popped back in my head. There did not seem to be any equivalent to the job and life of a diplomat. To my mind, it wasn’t just a great career to have but truly an honour to serve the nation as part of the hallowed Indian Foreign Service.

     

    You have secured a very high rank in the UPSC Exam. Tell us a bit about your preparation routine.

    Phew. More than a year after the results came, this is a tough one to answer. There is an interview of mine on YouTube where I elaborately speak on the subject and it is best the readers watch that. I believe one does not plan for or work aiming at a particular rank. The idea is to figure out where one is making mistakes, to correct those and give one’s best. A well informed strategy, reading list and persistence help.

     

    Tell our readers about your current training experience at Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration.

    seema-pujani-3It was an amazing time spent at the Academy. The place is very professionally run and the curriculum is carefully planned in advance. The emphasis in the Foundation Course is on interaction between Officer Trainees who come from different civil services. Officers from Royal Bhutan services also undergo training along with us. I never thought I would go on a nine day Himalayan trek or be a coordinator for a big cultural event in the course of my 3.5 month stay there. The course and the Academy pushes everyone’s limits and inspires excellence. We were kept on our toes from the time we woke up at 5 for morning PT till we dropped dead at night.

     

    What is the job profile of the Indian Foreign Service?

    The most inspiring and also the most onerous of a diplomat’s duties is to be a representative of the country and its people abroad. One needs to be mindful of her actions, words and behaviour. Today our job involves the entire spectrum of work ranging from political, cultural, consular to commercial and economic diplomacy. We are the spokespersons for the government and its people on any matter of foreign policy. In countries torn by violence, rescue operations such as ‘Operation Raahat’ to ensure safety of our nationals have brought succor to the stranded.

    In a globalised world with significant Indian footprint abroad, any matter that involves the country’s interests is our concern. Be it negotiating agreements, pitching for investors to come to India or doing marketing for different states abroad, the importance and functions of a diplomat are on a constant rise in today’s world. We also come up with useful publications, organise events in India and abroad on a range of issues that come under the purview of the Ministry. As budding diplomats, we report back on developments of political, economic and strategic significance in the host country.

     

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    How has your training as part of IFS been so far and what is the work assigned to you in the MEA?

    Upon completion of the Foundation Course in Mussoorie, Officer Trainees belonging to different services report to their respective Academies. Ours is the Foreign Service Institute situated very close to IIT and JNU in South Delhi. Starting with the batch of 2015, the duration of our training has been significantly reduced. Therefore, the entire duration of our association with FSI has been reduced to about five and a half months. In this period, not only did I go through classroom training in international relations, foreign policy, international law and the like but also travelled the length and breadth of the country as part of Bharat Darshan and attachments with Army, Navy, Air Force. I also travelled to Myanmar to learn about the working of the Indian Embassy and Consulates.

    In the first week of June, we joined the Ministry of External Affairs as Under Secretary (Officer Trainees). I was allotted the Investment, Technology Promotion and Energy Security (ITP & ES) division therein. My Head of Division is Mr. K. Nagaraj Naidu, IFS batch of 1999. I am fortunate to have been associated early in my career with an officer of his work ethic and sense of duty. Under his able guidance, the division facilitates foreign investment flows and handles all issues relating to energy security in close coordination with other central government Ministries and departments. The Division represents MEA on all issues relating to agriculture (including food processing), civil aviation (including bilateral ASAs), energy (coal, oil, gas and renewables), investments (BIT), social service agreements (SSAs), shipping, ports, highways, railways, telecommunications, electronics, services, tourism, pharmaceuticals etc. The Division supports activities of leading business chambers, media houses and consultancy firms. It works closely with other respective state governments in their international outreach activities. On 30th of July, the Division organised the 6th Pravasi Bharatiya Divas Panel Discussion on the theme “Diaspora: Transferring Knowledge and Encouraging Innovation (Science & Technology, Education, Start-Up India)” that was chaired by the Honourable Minister for External Affairs, Smt Sushma Swaraj. It saw participation from eminent educationists in the country and leading NRIs in these fields. Meaningful discussions held here would form part of a report with recommendations that would be released on Pravasi Bharatiya Divas in January, 2017.

     

    Finally tell us in which specific role you would like to see yourself after 10 years.

    It is hard to say if any role necessarily stand distinct from each other 🙂 I would just want to be alive and kicking and be doing meaningful work.

     

    Please give our young readers and followers some tips to help them face the mighty UPSC.

    Each person is unique. Know yourself well and play to strengths. It is not the number of hours one puts in but the quality of output that matters. Neither success nor failure in this exam is the end of the world. One can contribute immensely to the society in multifarious ways. Wishing everyone all the very best! Rise and shine!

     

  • Zubin Pratap, New Business Development Manager, Telstra, Melbourne on varied work experience in Corporate firms and MNCs

    Zubin Pratap, New Business Development Manager, Telstra, Melbourne on varied work experience in Corporate firms and MNCs

    Zubin Pratap graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2003. After working at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co for one and a half years, he moved to Luthra and worked there for a short period. Thereafter Zubin moved to Melbourne and in 2007 he found a role at Baker & McKenzie where he went on to join General Motors in a secondment, Zubin continued at Baker & McKenzie till October 2010.

    Soon Zubin joined Telstra and is currently a New Business Development Manager there, he has been in the organisation for the last six years.  He has served as a Board Member at Communication Rights Australia. He founded NobleGenie which seeks to change the way we seek and obtain specialised information from qualified experts by being the first step in a search for quality advice and information from an ecosystem of professionally qualified advisors, and recently Zubin also created an app called Remynd which works as a mind mapping software.

    In this interview he talked to us about:

    • Interning at the United Nations office of Drugs and Crime in Vienna
    • Balancing his passions and his interest in music and stand-up comedy along with work
    • His journey from working at a corporate law firm to moving to Telstra
    • His experience as an Indian lawyer working in Australia

     

    Could you tell us a little about yourself please? Just by way of introduction to our readers.

    Well, my name is Zubin Pratap. I was born in Bangalore, raised in both Bangalore and Delhi and went to NLS to study law. I love music, still play the guitar and sing and I read a lot – mainly in science, philosophy and psychology. I am a nerd, and proud of it! I love dogs. I had a relatively privileged childhood – good education, stable and doting family, great friends and no real hardships to speak of. I moved to Australia nine years ago, and am now settled in Melbourne.

     

    You were an international moot participant and debater while at NLSIU and took part in many extra-curricular activities. How did you ensure you maintained a balance with academics?

    Balance? Ha! I’m sure some of my classmates would question my “balance”! I did what I enjoyed and felt passionate about, be it academics or otherwise. But I always had high energy and drive.I believe that having fun makes work more playful. That pretty much became my guiding principle – if I am not having fun, why am I doingit? And if I am having fun then long hours melt away and the efforts you put in are hardly tedious.

     

    At present you are pursuing an Exec MBA from IE Business School in Madrid. What was the thought process behind choosing that course and that business school?

    After 11 years in corporate law I was at a crossroads – I had to choose between continued success and “seniority” in law and putting myself in the way of new opportunities. By then I had also come to question what it was that truly motivated me. The pursuit of excellence drove me to NLS, but at 17 you’re far too young to intelligently realise what you mean to do with your life. I wanted to push myself in new directions because I have a strong curiosity and am relatively fearless about failure. I’ve discovered that I’m most happy when I’m slightly out of my comfort zone and learning something very new.

    When I was offered an opportunity to move into the business side at Telstra, I felt it was an opportunity to re-invent myself. I was curious – what would happen? What would success look like? What would disaster look like? Would it be as risky as people said? Would it be as scary as everyone promised? Will I love or hate it? But to optimise my ability to switch careers after a decade, I chose a program that let me study and work at the same time. It was an accelerated program that I had no choice but to complete in a short, 15 month sprint. It literally is sink-or-swim at the IE Global Executive MBA program. Its top 6 ratings, the calibre of the cohort, and the fact that it emphasises a more holistic view of management and growth (as opposed to only rapacious profiteering) appealed to me immensely. Once again, I feel privileged to be a student with some incredible achievers. It is, however, the hardest test of discipline and intellectual stamina I’ve ever undertaken. But if you’re not slightly daunted by your choices, you’re too comfortable. Right?

     

    You recently created an app, Remynd! What inspired that and what does the app do?

    Two things impelled me to do it: First, when I finished school in ’98, the internet wasn’t really a huge thing yet. Google was still a box mounted on a Lego frame. The world really was different. I’ve always regretted that I never learned to code. So I did. Well, a little bit.

    The second factor was that I had noticed that the busy-ness of life imposes a giant burden on our short term memories, which are notoriously short term. This is a feature of “cognitive load”. We are literally loading our brain with all kinds of working memory tasks that are tiring. I really believe that technology requires us to remember less but process a great deal more – and for that you need to free up brain power (like CPU power). Our minds should be augmented by the tools we use. I decided to do something about it. So ReMynd was born. I was working in Jakarta on a JV at the time and kept forgetting all the things I wanted to say to my boss, back in Melbourne, each time we spoke! There was just so much going on! And emails added to inbox clutter. I realised that there is nothing out there that brings up a specific mental note when a specific person calls or texts. ReMynd solves the problem of forgetting “notes to self” where you need to say something to someone when you next communicate with them. Its on Android for now and I’m working on newer features. But it is more of a way for me to learn and do something new – not really a startup.

     

    When did the interest for music and stand-up comedy grow? Were they areas you were able to sustain while studying?

    I’ve loved music since I was a baby. I was literally named after Zubin Mehta for that reason! I learned the guitar in my teens (but I regret never having learned to read music). I love performing and public speaking. And in the 90s, and early noughties, stand up wasn’t a feature in the Indian pub and bar scene. I’d always been very curious – litigation felt easy compared to stand up. A stand up gig and a courtroom have very different kinds of judging going on! Melbourne has an active scene and it was a really fun way for me to meet people, sharpen my performance skills, be creative, and say things on stage that I cannot usually say at the dinner table. It was a license to speak plainly – how could I resist? As for sustaining these things – taking time off study is as important as studying. Very few things soothe the soul like friends, music or laughter. Nothing dissipates stress like a good chuckle or a great tune.

     

    We see that you rehabilitate racing grey hounds once their careers end. Would you urge every student to take up and promote a cause?

    Yes I used to be a rescue and foster carer for greyhounds. I no longer have the right circumstances to foster but I do remain active in promoting awareness.  I think every human being should believe in making a change somewhere. But what they choose to make a change in is entirely up to them. I don’t like people who treat causes as though they’re a badge of honour or a way to distinguish themselves. Believing in something and trying to make a difference is a deeply personal thing and ultimately it’s got to align with whatever you value. I would urge people who feel that they have something to contribute, to contribute – no matter what it is. Don’t judge yourself and give yourself permission to believe in what you do. Just remember J.S. Mill’s words: “Your liberty to swing your fists ends just where my nose begins”.

     

    Tell us a little about your stint at the UN.

    It was an internship at the UN Office of Drugs and Crime, in Vienna. The UN Convention Against Corruption was in its final stages of negotiation at the time, and it was a fantastic experience to witness world leaders negotiate delicate matters that had cultural, economic, political and linguistic nuances. It was also my first time working overseas for a longer length of period and I had a fantastic time. Most importantly I realised just how necessary a good, strong education is for one’s confidence and that how Indians are really quite impressive even with structural and infrastructural disadvantages – somehow we manage to win with less and that creates confidence.

     

    When did you decide on corporate law and why? Were there any particular measures you began to take to prepare yourself for success in the field?

    I found myself slightly disillusioned with litigation in India after about 2 years of practice. I also developed an urge to see how others lived and worked in other countries. I was deeply ambivalent about corporate law. I had mistakenly bought into the disdain that was popular in the 90s that corporate lawyers weren’t “real” lawyers. But I absolutely loved it. It appealed to my need for quick, conclusive results and a sense of impact. I also loved that negotiations required finesse, EQ and persuasive logic. It was a big change from the primacy of precedent – and I found that I could be creative in my advice to clients. I then got an opportunity with Baker & McKenzie in Melbourne and that was my “big break”. It brought me closer to business and prepared me for the tech revolution that followed.

    Had I remained in litigation, I don’t believe I would have had quite the ring-side view of the revolution that was taking place in the mid 2000s. I guess, in hindsight, I didn’t really have measures to prepare myself for success. I just stayed true to myself – I did what I really wanted to do, even if it was unorthodox, and enjoyed myself thoroughly and that brought modest successes, new opportunities, learnings and skills.  I think that is something we could do better – be true to ourselves. Too often we make choices that others will approve of and follow convention because we assume that people older than us know a great deal more about what makes us happy. But while we choose to please others in our acts, we are alone in managing the consequences. Ultimately, it is our life. If we take ownership over our life, then we make choices true to ourselves, even if others disagree.

     

    zubin-pratap-2

    As a highly commended team leader, would you please share a few pointers on how to do the same effectively?

    This is old wine in a new bottle – but it is 100% true. You can’t lead well unless you’ve followed well. To follow well you must be self-aware –know what drives you, what upsets you or impairs you, what you love and what you merely tolerate. Knowing these things help you to understand just how hard it is to lead people – because ALL people feel these things, but in different ways. Therefore, to lead well you need to have an excellent memory of how YOU felt when you were poorly led or poorly motivated. That will give you empathy to perceive the consequences of your words and actions on those that follow you and remind you that people have feelings and feelings are powerful motivators or impediments.  If you lead people with emotion backed by reason, people will outdo themselves. And that is the goal of every leader – to help others outdo themselves.  The best feeling is when you see the surprise in their eyes – when they’ve literally surprised themselves with their ability and achievement. There is no greater professional joy.

     

    What areas do you focus your reading on? How, in your opinion, should law students approach the task of selecting their reading material?

    I read whatever is of interest. I don’t follow politics very closely. I am partial to science, philosophy, psychology and tech. I think it’s harder than ever to decide what to follow. But everyone needs to realise that it’s like drinking from a firehose now. So you must accept that a choice is inevitable. Prioritise what matters to you (its personal and always valid  – don’t let people con you into thinking there is superior reading and inferior reading). Ultimately YOU must get value out of it. That’s the only test of your choices – do you get satisfaction out of it.

     

    What work do you currently do for Telstra?

    I’ve actually just taken on a new role. I now do New Business Development – my mandate is to help identify, partner, prototype, validate and commercialise new business opportunities that will drive new revenue growth for Telstra. It is, quite literally, the most exciting thing I could do right now with my life and energy. Every day I will get to work with brilliant people, building and testing ideas, gunning for excellence and doing some new, innovative and game changing businesses. I left the law about 18 months ago. In the interim, I was in channel and commercial management – running deals with our distribution and channel partners.

     

    In 2014, you founded NobleGenie. Will you elaborate a little on that please?

    It was a brief experiment. I had started teaching myself about tech, startups, entrepreneurship, design thinking, innovation and problem-solving. I had also just bought a house. I realised that in Australia property is a big part of the “story” of a person’s life – up there with graduation, turning 21, finding love, etc. I also noticed that you need an ecosystem of professionals – an advice marketplace – of lawyers, conveyancers, accountants, financial advisers, mortgage brokers etc. NobleGenie was going to be a platform that brought together these professionals to respond to client queries as a way to win the confidence of clients.  Professional services is a “credence good” – we can never really know the quality of the service (advice) and we are totally dependent on trust when handing over our money. It is not like a car that you can test drive. By having peer reviewed interactions to discrete queries, I felt a system could be designed whereby clients can “test” their professional advisers-to-be. It also helps professionals to build their profile and for the legions of practitioners who want to freelance or work flexible hours, to build their practices. Sadly, i couldn’t spend the time that was required of me on it due to my work commitments (in Jakarta for 2014!) and after completing the coding for the site, I elected to move on to other projects.

     

    What was it like as a Board Member of Communication Rights Australia and how were you placed on the Board?

    I wanted to volunteer my skills for an organisation that could do a lot more with it than I could on my own. I applied, interviewed for the position and joined the board. What amazes me about the NFP sector is that people are so passionate and motivated about causes  and they aren’t even paid for most of it. Its volunteer based. As a leader, it presented me with a fantastic way to observe how people are motivated without financial gain. There are many studies that show that monetary incentives actually impair the quality of work done. Intrinsic motivation is dramatically more effective – and I can empirically confirm this! I also learned that it doesn’t matter how “senior” or “accomplished” a person is – they are very human, with frailties, foibles, weaknesses, blindspots and flaws just like any of us. That gave me confidence that there is no “secret sauce” or mysterious ability – we are all perfectly capable of excellence and our beliefs limit us more than our abilities.

     

    Now you live in Melbourne. What is your experience as an Indian lawyer in Australia?

    I have had a great experience here. Most of all I’ve learned about competing globally, and not being parochial. Things have changed a lot since 2007 when I moved here. Globally, it’s become harder to move as a lawyer. It’s actually harder for all jobs really, but law has the added challenge of requiring re-qualification in each new jurisdiction.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who plan on launching a career abroad?

    For those who want to try and work overseas, I would say think very carefully whether you want to stay in the law or not. Living overseas and experiencing the cultures the world has to offer is (for some) more valuable than a given profession. It’s very hard to move as a lawyer – there are only 2-3 places you could go to realistically. And it’s a lot of effort. If you decide to leave the law do it early – it gets exponentially harder after 5 years. If you’re staying in the law, then start by moving to a place that recruits foreign lawyers actively – but recognise that it is a long hard slog and presents much more uncertainty.

    If you want to launch a life or career or project abroad, the best advice I can give is that the world and the people are not what you think they are – some are better, some are worse – but it’s always different. So don’t take your plans and yourself too seriously. And be adventurous. Your rewards are rarely what you aimed for, but that makes them more interesting.

     

  • Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang, Human Rights Activist, on academic legal research and co-founding Alternative Law Forum

    Lawrence Liang graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore in 1998 and has been the co-founder of Alternative Law Forum. He is based out of Bangalore, and is widely known across the legal fraternity for his campaigns on issues of public concern, especially on conflicts of Intellectual Property and medical accessibility.

    Soon after his graduation he received the Chevening Scholarship and did a Masters in Law and Development from the University of Warwick. He holds a Ph.D in Film Studies  from Jawaharlal Nehru University and a Post-graduate Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for Study of Culture and Society, Bangalore. Over the course of his career he has immersed himself in human right issues, media law and legal writing. He is currently a visiting faculty fellow at Yale.
    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His time at NLSIU and Warwick and his educational qualifications
    • His various experiences as a Fullbright Scholar, Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, and the Hughes Visiting Scholar.
    • Alternative Law Forum
    • His work with iCommons, the Sarai Institute and Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.
    • How he combined media and law
    • His experience as a member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008
    • His views on human rights advocacy

     

    What could be a short introduction of yourself?

    Hi, my name is Lawrence Liang and I am a legal researcher and writer based in Bangalore. I was one of the co-founders of the Alternative Law Forum, a collective of lawyers working on public interest issues and I have been involved with ALF for around 15 years. I left ALF in 2015 and I am currently a visiting faculty fellow  at Yale.

     

    You received an English Honours in English Literature from St. Joseph’s College, Bangalore before graduating with a law degree from NLSIU. What prompted the choice to study law?

    An early fascination with law – possibly prompted by popular culture – drew me towards law, but more than a clear idea of wanting to do law, I was clear that I had no inclination towards the sciences and at that point of time pursuing my first love – literature – didn’t seem like a feasible career option. Also it was the time that the National law school had just been set up and we started encountering a number of the NLS students in the quizzing and debating circuit and they seemed like some of the brightest people we had met. On inquiring further we figured that the law school was an an incredible experiment to revamp legal education and appeared to be the most exciting place that one could be in. My English Honours was actually alongside my time at law school. This was at St. Josephs’ where the department used to offer English Honors programs open to all, and in many ways doing this alongside the law shaped many of my subsequent interests in inter disciplinary studies, and in law and literature. While we we were studying subjects like copyright in law school, we were also being exposed to critical theory at Josephs, and one could start seeing the connections between ideas of authorship which were so central to copyright but being differently interrogated by thinkers like Michel Foucault and Roland Barthes. It convinced me of the need to have a wider approach to the law than just legal formalism.

     

    What work did your masters in Law and Development involve in Warwick?

    The Law in development program was attractive to those of us interested in a critical perspective mainly because Prof. Upendra Baxi taught there, and his scholarship had been very important to us. Warwick has a wonderful history of a engagement with law from a global south perspective and while there, my main learning was to develop a sharp ideological understanding of law and political economy especially in the way that it impacted questions of justice.

     

    As a recipient of the British Chevening Scholarship, what opportunities did that open up for you? Was there a process for application for the scholarship?

    The Chevening scholarship was literally the only way I could have afforded doing a Masters in the UK and we were lucky at that time that they had two scholarships for people interested in law and development. There was an application and interview process and the interview was a bit of a disaster, so I was rather lucky that I actually managed to get the scholarship. My time at Warwick helped shape an interest in activist lawyering and I started thinking about the need to set up a space after returning. I also took the opportunity to do courses that allowed me to dive into the continental philosophical tradition which significantly shaped my intellectual and political outlook.

     

    You were the Best Outgoing Student at Warwick! What activities did you engage in there besides academics?

    It is amazing that I got any work done there actually considering it was also a year of being passionately in love. But since cross border romances are best conducted under the shadows of culture I managed to watch many art house films and plays which I did not get to see in India, and the summer was one long cricket match rudely interrupted with thesis and course work breaks.

     

    You have a Ph.D from the Jawaharlal Nehru University Film Studies Dept. and a PG Diploma in Cultural Theory from Centre for study of Culture and Society as well. How did you come to cultural studies? Did it have an impact on your approach to law?

    Strangely enough while I turned to cultural studies and film studies from a boredom with law, they also enabled me to return to the law with renewed interest, but with a slightly modified perspective. My interest in cultural theory allowed me to read the law not merely from within its internal logic of rules and norms, but through a symbolic register where one could read law as culture. In recent times it is the discipline of anthropology which has been most exciting for me and the work of legal anthropologists like Pratiksha Baxi, Annelise Riles, Perveez Mody in domains as varied as rape law, international finance and the Special Marriages Act have been very exciting and inspiring for anyone interested in the workings of the law both in theory and practice.

     

    As a Fullbright Visiting Scholar in Columbia University at the Anthropology Department, what did your work entail?

    My time at Columebia offered me a chance to finish work on my doctoral thesis, and being at the anthropology department was to be a part of a fantastic intellectual community which allowed me to interact with many people whose work I have admired over the years. Brian Larkin who has worked on an ethnography of media piracy is a kindred spirit and he was my host while I was there. In some ways anthropology has emerged as the intellectual refuge for many disciplines and the number of law graduates who have becomes anthropologists is a good indication of what a fertile field it is especially in a country with as complex a legal system as India where numerous legal traditions and temporalities coexist and collide with each other.

     

    Now you are the Henry Hart Visiting Faculty Fellow, at Yale Univ. for the academic year 2016-17. What do you focus your teaching on?

    I am teaching two courses, one is a cinema course where I look at the social life of cinema in India moving beyond the cinematic text to focus on spatial and technological histories, fan clubs, labour histories etc. The second course I am teaching is on the Trial and its public effects in India where I look at key trials that captured the public imagination in India in the colonial and postcolonial context. I move between cases like the Tilak trial, the INA trials to the Nanavati case and the Arushi trial as a way of looking at the public life of law in India, and the way that trial becomes a critical event that recalibrates ideas of politics and public morality. It also becomes a story about the intersection between law and media since these very public trials become a theatre of justice constantly mediated by different technologies of mass media and legal trials become an effective site for the staging of dramaturgies of justice.

     

    As the Hughes Visiting Scholar, Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan University in 2014, were there any interesting conclusions to your work then, that you could share?

    Michigan was a brief stint in which I got to test out some of the ideas that I had been working on at the time especially on ideas of forensic imagination and the rise of forensics in legal process. I was interested at that time in the idea of the doctored image, narco analysis etc and my friend Joyojeet Pal who teaches at Michigan is also interested in information politics so there was a superb synergy. I was there just after the Polar Vortex which meant that the extreme cold ensured that you just lock yourself up and do your work without any distraction. Ann Arbor represents the best and worst that a life in ideas could represent- the Ivory tower you are confined in because it is just too snowy to step outside but where you keep warm in good intellectual company.

     

    You were a Co-founder of ALF. How did the idea develop to start that?

    lawrence-liang-2ALF was both the result of many years of conversations with friends as well as strangers who were as excited about the possibility of the experiment. Most of us had done some time with human rights lawyers or organizations, and while we were inspired by the legacy of critical lawyering India, we also felt the lack of a space that brought together litigation, activism and academic research. ALF was born out of a belief that there was a need to bring together these in a way that broke the barrier between theory and practice, and to a certain extent we were successful even if this was not without its attendant difficulties. The temporal nature of litigation and activism is always about the immediate and the urgent while research has a longer durée, and sometimes these can be in conflict with each other. But at ALF I was lucky to be in the company of extremely passionate and committed people, and I learnt that one’s political stances are not just learnt from the outside world but equally in these small experiments at collective living and working. To believe in an abstract idea of the right to equality is one thing, to actualize it in your practice is much more difficult, but in trying to do so you learn more about the abstract value as well.

     

    What work does ALF focus on? Is there a unique work culture that volunteers or employees are expected to adhere to or anything in particular that is expected from them?

    ALF works in a variety of areas from access to the criminal justice system, the politics of intellectual property, sexuality, labour etc. From the start we were committed to the idea of a non hierarchical workspace which was organized on the basis of collective responsibility- again much easier in principle than in practice- but I think an informal ethos and a respect for each other’s work is what attracted people towards ALF. Given the relatively modest salaries that we were offering, what made ALF attractive for many people was that it offered a vibrant intellectual and political environment, a collegial space underwritten by friendship and the chance to do work which you could see had some impact at least  on the lives of people.

     

    What impact has working at ALF had on your life outlook?

    This one will probably need more space than I have, but one simple one is a recognition that while the law is often a leaky umbrella, often it is the only one we have. And the real challenge of an ideological critique of the law is not to disavow it, but to deploy as effectively as possible using its own logic to work for those whom it normally works against. Apart from the professional side, it has shown me via the words of Neil Gaiman that inside everyone are strange and surprising universes and to work together is to be invited to universes that one would not normally be a part of.

     

    Tell us a bit about the Public Access Digital Media Archive (Pad.ma) and Indiancine.ma.

    Pad.ma is an online archive of video and documentary footage. It seeks to create a visual archive of densely annotated clips and Indiancine.ma tries to do the same for Indian films. These are collaborations with a fantastic group in Berlin, Pirate Cinema and Camp in Mumbai. They arise from a simultaneous interest in visual culture as well as in the radical potential of open access.

     

    You have shown remarkable commitment to a variety of causes over the years. What are the major causes you espouse? Did you always know what issues you wanted to work on or did that happen with time?

    While one always has a vague sense of values that one is committed to, the commitment to specific issues often arises from a particular context. For instance while I was generally interested in media laws, it was through the process of working with Vikalp (A group of documentary film makers who came together to fight censorship) that you are then forced to dive into and in some sense try and master a particular field. Similarly with issues of access to knowledge, the specific context of the DU photocopy case both confirms the importance of a politics of knowledge even as it refines the political stance you had through the technical prism of law. To be simultaneously committed to things you believe in even as you remain open to contingent forces that change or alter your politics is both exhilarating and inspiring. There is a lovely saying that revolutions should be born out of joy not sorrow, and I think we often derive out vitality from the energy of those we see around us, who in the face of extreme injustice are still defiantly hopeful for a better world.

     

    Tell us how you have managed to combine media and law?

    We live in a mediatized world where it is difficult to imagine any aspect of our lives which are not touched by media. From cinema to the internet, media occupies and shapes our consciousness, so it no coincidence that the world of law becomes crucially enmeshed with that of media. In a narrow sense that would mean the regulation of media, but in a broader sense it also means the transformation of law itself where law also becomes mediatized. The emergence of sting operations, the prevalence of trial by media are crucially media effects even as they are legal events, and to think of the contemporary is to think of media. Ravi Sundaram whose work has been very influential for me has a book which theorizes India ‘after media’ and in a sense he posits that everything changes after media and as a legal scholar you are bound to account for what that means in the legal world.

     

    What is you role in iCommons? What do you strive to achieve there?

    The Creative commons movement was a very important moment that showed us the possibility of what an alternative imaginary to the closed world of copyright could be. It expressed a philosophy of sharing and the creative potential of it contrasted with the diminishing of the public domain by strong IP regimes. It was also beset by its own limitations being enshrined within the idea of liberal legality, and for someone coming from India, where you could see the democratizing potential of illicit practices such as piracy, my own role was to contextualize what something like the CC movement meant in the global south, but also to nuance the debate with an understanding of the social and cultural worlds of knowledge sharing beyond the law.

     

    What work have you done in collaboration with Sarai?

    Sarai was one of the most exciting and important media and cultural spaces that emerged in early 2000’s which opened up all kinds of possibilities in the public discourse around art, media and urban space. It was set up jointly by the Raqs media collective and faculty members of CSDS and they supported the most cutting edge work in theory and practice for many years. The range of fellowships they offered, the legacy of the work they supported (from artists to graphic novelists) has been phenomenal. I started collaborating with Sarai in 2002, and it was a combination of boldness and generosity on their part which also helped ALF in its formative years. They saw a bunch of passionate and smart lawyers who wanted to try something new and supported us (intellectually and financially) helping us set our foundations. In 2005 we organized a global conference on intellectual property called Contested Commons and Trespassing Publics which I think made a significant impact on the global discourse on IP. We also co organized an event called World Information City that brought together artists and theorists thinking about idea and politics knowledge era as they played out in the lives of cities. My conversations with Jeebesh Bagchi, Ravi Sundaram, Ravi Vasudevan, Shuddhabrata Sengupta and others opened up ways of thinking from the diverse worlds of art, cinema and technology. Sarai, I think, allowed for us to see the various expressive forms that thought can take, and the traditional academic form of scholarship was both something they showed the limits of even by pushing the boundaries of how scholarship could be creatively and energetically expanded.

     

    You have several publications to your credit! How do you choose when to write about what? Do you think research and publishing is very important for a law student?

    Sometimes you choose to write because you are following an intuition, a curiosity and an intellectual itch. Other times a specific areas chooses you by virtue of its immediacy. At any rate for academics to write is to think and even though the act of writing is often a painful process every once in a while in the midst of writing you realize you are expressing thoughts you didn’t even know you had. So yes writing is crucial for law students, and I am grateful for the endless projects that we had to do as law school. I don’t think law school really teaches you law, what it does teach you is how to think about the law, how to forage for research material and how to put together an argument. What I do think is important is to fight the very real possibilities of writing becoming a painful drudgery (often the case with academic writing) and to experiment with different forms which retain the joyfulness of writing. For me writing in a range of forums from art journals, newspapers and academic spaces has been the key to maintaining my sanity since the joy of writing can easily be assassinated by footnotes. But more than a writer I think of myself as a reader, and writing for me is often is an excuse to make sense of what I am reading and to have imaginary conversations.

     

    Please tell us about your experience as a Member of the Drafting Committee of the Colombo Declaration on Free Speech and Media in 2008?

    This was a considerably difficult period in Sri Lanka, the civil war was at its peak and one of the immediate casualties was free speech. Journalists and editors were being targeted – often killed by the state as well as the LTTE. It was humbling to learn of the incredibly difficult circumstances under which journalists were doing their work and as members of the drafting committee we were privy to a remarkable set of testimonies. It reminded me of Foucault’s idea of parhessia- an idea that preceded the idea of free speech and referred to fearless speech- reminding us of the high stakes involved in speaking truth to power, and the small role that lawyers can play in nurturing a safe home of fearless speech. The experience really shaped my understanding of free speech laws in India and to appreciate the relatively good jurisprudence that exists on free speech in India. All the more crucial in these days when sedition charges are thrown about like cheap change and when shrill blood hungry media anchors become the greatest dangers to free speech.

     

    What changes do you hope to see in human rights advocacy in India over the next decade?

    With the mushrooming of law schools all over India, I hope that we in addition to producing lawyers for law firms, we also produce a generation of lawyers who continue a critical tradition. The law students I meet today are remarkably bright- certainly smarter than we were- they are born digital and command an enviable ease with all kinds of online research skills, and what would be fantastic is to have more lawyers who are able to engage with human rights issues not just in a generic sense of political empathy, but to deploy their legal skills in understanding and critiquing mainstream areas of law. What the human rights movement needs are more lawyers who know corporate law, insurance, taxation etc. In other words we need lawyers who understand the belly of the beast but also understand that the beast preys upon those who are most vulnerable and to be an effective human rights lawyer means internalizing Part 3 of the constitution, but also understanding how corporate governance can affect the same Part 3.

     

  • Sandhya Gorthi, Founder, Sanctum, on being an entrepreneur and pursuing diverse careers

    Sandhya Gorthi, Founder, Sanctum, on being an entrepreneur and pursuing diverse careers

    Sandhya Gorthi is an alumna of NLSIU, Bangalore. She graduated in 1998 and over the course of her career has worked as a radio jockey, a freelance writer,  a soft skills trainer, a Manager of Operations, had a stint with India’s first online art auction website and at present runs Sanctum, a start-up she founded. In addition to her creative arts proclivities, she is a rescue diver, a dancer and has studied Vedanta philosophy for thirteen years now.

    In this interview she talks to us about:

    • Sanctum – the inspiration behind it and its driving principles.
    • The various roles she played in different organizations and with different kinds of work.
    • Career versatility, work ethic and travelling extensively on the job.

     

    What was the inspiration behind Sanctum? What work do you primarily focus on now?

    I had retail and operations experience and found I was very interested in furniture. I found a gap in the market for well priced natural wood furniture and home accessories with a vintage and international feel, and I started Sanctum. It’s my full time job and I oversee all aspects of the business although I do have a talented and empowered team.

     

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    What are the driving principles you believe anyone should have to start their own company?

    I’d have to say Number 1 is boundless passion. I don’t feel the need to take a ‘break’ from SANCTUM ever. That doesn’t mean it isn’t important for me to spend time away from the daily routine. It’s vital to get inspired, to keep learning, to meet new people, share ideas…

    Next would be access to some resources – entrepreneurship is risky and all companies have
    ups and downs, so planning for resources and income flow is important. Having said that, I feel having access to endless resources works negatively – then there is no hunger. Often, the most creative ideas are born of necessity and frugal resources. Contacts in the industry, industry knowledge, a mentor, are also valuable resources.

     

    Where do you see Sanctum headed?

    My vision has always been to create a model that is scalable to create a national and international footprint. We are country with a rich heritage of design, natural resources and talented craftsmen, surely we can produce a unique and international brand with this mix!

     

    What plans do you envision for yourself career-wise?

    Career wise I think I’ve come full circle. The skills I’ve picked up in law school and in my various professions have all come together for me in entrepreneurship. I hope to carry these skills forward in this line and eventually in public service as well. I owe a lot.

     

    What was your role in The Shop?

    I partnered with the family that owned the brand and was responsible for bringing the brand to Mumbai – from location search, refreshing the old branding, to curation and entire set up – interiors, compliances, staffing.

     

    Tell us how you got into soft skills training and your time as the trainer at Prana Worldwide. What would you consider most important in your lessons on soft skills?

    I found, in many of my jobs where I lead teams, that I would spend time training them on professional conduct, email etiquette, customer service and other aspects of corporate culture. That, plus my background in theatre, really helped shape the modules that I developed at Prana. I also worked with modules that had been already created and it was fun working across different professions – pharma, investment banking, hospitality…

    Prana happened right after I had my two kids (now aged 13 and 11) – so it was part time work – but I did find it a little hard to clock a full day or three full days in a row while my two highly accident prone boys unleashed themselves onto the world!

    sandhya-gorthi-3Soft skills are invaluable in creating the right impression, presenting a professional front and help in being diplomatic yet firm in multiple scenarios, whether we’re dealing with customers, vendors, government officials, industry peers or investors.

    I think the most important aspect for me has been customer feedback on how amazing the team at SANCTUM is, and how warm and welcome they feel in the store. That sets us apart for sure and has done more for the brand than any other brand building exercise we have undertaken.

     

    How did you get engaged as a freelance writer for the Hindustan Times? How do you choose what issues to write on?

    Actually I wrote for several publications. I’ve always loved writing in school and college and learning how to research issues in NLS made it so much easier to present well rounded articles. I’ve done a writing course, been an editor for LexSite.com, Easybuymusic.com and Planetsaffron.com/Saffronart.com. As a freelancer I’ve written on subjects that are important or of interest to me – health, spirituality (I’ve been studying Vedanta philosophy for 13 years) parenting, pets (I contributed regularly to Delhi based pet magazine), art, child sexual abuse and its legal framework, travel…

    Once I got into retail there was so much writing to do…newsletters, blog posts, product descriptions,, website, design stories, press releases, business plans…I also regularly give content relating to home decoration and home care to journalists that they use in their articles. Now, even with a larger team, I always chip in with the writing whenever I can.

     

    What prompted your stint as a radio jockey? What is the greatest experience you take away from your time as an RJ on Radio Mirchi?

    Like most people I love music, but also music trivia and performing. I first became a professional radio jockey on AIR FM which was the only FM station in the city. I moonlighted as the evening host while I was working at LexSite.com – it was wonderful to connect to so many people, to play music I loved, and to access AIR’s treasure trove of old rock and pop LPs.

    My second stint came with the entry of private FM into the city in 1999. I auditioned with thousands and got selected as evening drive time host of Radio Mirchi, a hectic job that I enjoyed thoroughly even through a tiring pregnancy and after the channel switched to an all Hindi format.

    I also produced other shows, trained tech and talent, and did short stints on other time slots in addition to my 4-5 hours of drive time.

    For me, the greatest lesson was how we can connect with people of different backgrounds despite cultural and language barriers. I didn’t grow up in a typical Indian home nor did I speak very good Hindi at the time, but homemakers, taxi drivers even some Bollywood celebrities would call in and chat with me because they felt I was a friend. This sounds trite but it was really humbling and a valuable life lesson for me that I practice to date.

     

     You also worked as a Manager of Operations with Planetsaffron. What work did you focus on?

    Planetsaffron was a wonderful experience too. At the time there were three sites – Saffronart, of course, Saffronsoul – which was about holistic healing and Saffronstyle – which was high end fashion. I came on board as head of content and technology – at Saffronart we worked on creating the first online art auction module, for Saffronsoul I was helping two Ayurvedic doctors write a book, and for Saffronstyle we had Mehr Jessia and Tina Tahiliani curating style shoots. It was a lot of work but fun!

    Soon however, I moved more into operations – overseeing the teams, heading the team that took exhibitions of Indian contemporary art all over the world. It was challenging but there was so much learning, so much that we were doing new, so stimulating!

     

    You were able to travel extensively for the work you did with Planetsaffron. What do you think are the perks and drawbacks of having a job that requires a lot of travelling and how should one deal with it?

    I did. We had exhibitions in New York, LA (9/11 happened during that trip), Hong Kong, London was to follow…the perks are many – you get to see places you might otherwise not have had the opportunity to visit, you get to work with people from different cultures, handle international clients, learn the ins and outs of the logistics, customs, negotiating cross border contracts and generally see how business is done internationally.

    The flip side was that I was just never home. I often worked late into the night or all night, I’d rush home with an hour to spare before my flight and the travel itself was tiring because you’d just hit the ground running when you got back. I don’t think I balanced my work and personal life very well those days. If I had to do it over I would probably have prioritised the latter more. I’ve learnt that no one is indispensible in an organization.

    I travel a lot for work now too, but I do it more sensibly…most of the time (old habits).

     

    How did you get a job with India’s first online art auction website? How transformative was that experience in your life.

    I was introduced to Dinesh and Minal Vazirani and my profile matched what they were looking for at the time. My legal background helped me research and create the broad framework for the auction – in terms of rules and functionality. My background in writing, and editing meant that I could work with art school graduates to write artist profiles and artwork descriptions. And my technology background meant that I could explain concepts and functionality to the tech team and understand what the technology of the time could or could not do. My theatre and radio background helped me interact with art patrons I suppose (wink)!

    It was a huge learning, I made a lot of mistakes, but it also showed me what a good team leader ought to be and how organizations should be run.

     

    What was your first job? How has that experience impacted you work ethic thereafter?

    My first job was actually in the theatre and media. I did plays, voice overs for ads in 6 languages, hosted a few shows on TV and sang in the musical Evita. Not just in the media, but from changing jobs so many times, I began to realize the things I valued above all else…integrity, a strong vision that everyone was aligned towards, respect for all team members, a culture of learning and growing, and the importance of a space that allowed the sharing of ideas and for lots of laughter. When I started my own venture I was determined, and I think have been quite successful in, implementing these values.

     

    How did your tryst with creative arts begin?

    I was a born performer! I used to rally the kids in the neighbourhood to perform plays, dances, songs, dress up…no matter how unwilling they were. I wrote, danced, elocuted, sang, acted and even painted in school. Even today I make sure I’m learning something creative always and my kids and I sing, dance and have these weird (and scary) dress up sessions together.

     

    What would you say is your greatest strength and how would you say that has served you in terms of career versatility.

    I think the ability to keep an open mind – I believe that ageing is only rigidity of the mind – I have friends who are in their 80s and in their teens and of different ethnicities and backgrounds. I feel I learn from all of them and we share ideas and laughter freely. I tell myself the minute I start wanting things MY way or a particular way and no other, that’s growing old, that’s the beginning of a slow death.

    There are also some values you know are universal and you have to stand up for them and fight for them for yourself and for others who are not able to speak up for themselves. I have made myself quite unpopular on several occasions because of this but I’ve never had a moment’s regret.

     

    Did you always plan on trying out so many creative outlets or was each change a spontaneous change?

    Good God no! I’m a middle class south Indian girl! But I think you have to be true to yourself. Find your calling. Some of us have more than one…in the end it all comes together. The changes weren’t impulsive. I’ve responded to a strong calling, and have had compelling reasons to change. Maybe things come your way if you’re sending out the correct signals.

     

    As for trying new things, what would be your suggestions for our readers?

    JUST DO IT! There’s no point telling yourself you’ll try it when the time is right, or once you’ve reached a particular place. If you have a goal or passion, do the research, and jump right in. You have to be prepared to put in the sweat and it won’t always be fun. But keep your goal in sight always and work towards it.

    But I would add a rider that it’s important to first analyse your personality carefully. See if this is really a calling or if it just seems attractive because it’s different from what you’re currently doing. Know if you have the nerves and acumen for the dream you want to fulfil. Some things can always be fun dreams or hobbies too… but you’ll never know for sure if you never even get your feet wet.

  • Mayank Aggarwal, litigation lawyer, NLSIU, Bangalore on litigation after law school

    Mayank Aggarwal, litigation lawyer, NLSIU, Bangalore on litigation after law school

    Mayank is a graduate of the ’14 batch of the NLSIU. Following his multiple achievements on and off the field, he received the Alyosha Kumar Gold medal for excellence in sports and extra-curricular activities at his convocation ceremony. He went on to work with Adv. Yudhishtir Kahol as an associate/junior advocate and subsequently with RHA Legal as an associate.

    Mayank’s interest in criminal litigation within the country, aided by his experience with pro bono work, gives him an added insight into the career path of any aspiring litigant. His multi layered exposure to evidentiary burdens, witness examinations, and all the other aspects of a complete trial from the grass root level.

    In this interview Mayank talks to us about;

    • His experience at NLSIU, both inside and outside the classroom
    • Taking up litigation right after law school
    • The importance of internships
    • Work experience at RHA Legal

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Tell us about life after NLSIU.

    I am a legal practitioner and consultant based out of Delhi, working across forums with special interest in criminal litigation, both legal and non-legal aspects of criminology and pro bono work for people who can’t afford legal representation. I graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore and have been litigating ever since. Presently, I am working as an associate in the Litigation & Dispute Resolution vertical of RHA Legal, an emerging law firm at Delhi.

     

    What motivated your decision to study law. Were there alternate career options you had considered?

    The decision to study law was more a result of a process of elimination than a matter of choice. After studying science for two years in 10+2, I was fairly certain that I did not want to write the IIT-JEE exam, unlike everyone else in my class at School. My father is a practicing lawyer and I had a fair idea about what a lawyer does on a day-to-day basis. Unlike a major chink of the population (fed on a copious diet of dramatic and caricaturised versions of lawyers on-screen), who have seen lawyers as those sneaky people, who, with their underhand tactics, save the guilty and should not be messed with. I was lucky to have greater perspective in this regard.  I believe, more than anything else, this privileged knowledge and insight into a lawyer’s life might be one of the key reasons behind so many second and third generation lawyers entering this amazingly empowering and engaging profession.

     

    Tell us about your time at NLSIU. Any fond memories or anecdotes you would like to share with us?

    At the risk of belabouring the obvious, I would say I had the time of my life at college. Not only because NLSIU is a very good academic institution but for the people and the work culture the place had and helped all of us imbibe. I was a very shy person before college; the place played an important role in shaping my personality, ideals, and value systems. I particularly relish the wonderful camaraderie, especially at display in hostels; all of us bound together through the chaos of project submissions and last minute exam readings, trying to beat some impossible deadlines and collaborative efforts on research projects for class.

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    While at university, you took a keen interest in sports. How did you manage to balance the academic rigours of the trimester system at NLSIU?

    (Mayank captained the university cricket team, tennis team, squash team, badminton team and helped organize “Spiritus” which is the largest law school sports fest in India)

    Due to my pre-college involvement and background in sports, my interest in organisation as well as participation in various sports came naturally. Moreover, NLS has a thriving sporting culture, and being surrounded by people who are juggling both ECAs (not limited to sports) and academics  is inspiring in itself. Further, the insane effort put in all around the year by the Sports Committee, including the painstaking process of scheduling events around academic commitments of multiple batches, is no simple feat and actually helps ensure enthusiastic participation all year around without really jeopardising academics. I believe they are doing an incredible job in keeping the sporting tradition at NLSIU alive and I feel proud to have been part of it during my brief stay.

     

    What would you advise a student who wishes to excel at sports too in law school, considering time management or risk of injuries are valid issues most students face at law school?

    I believe that playing any kind of sport helps in acquiring the mental toughness to deal with the unpleasant situations you often face in your professional life, apart from keeping you physically fit, which I would say is critical especially in such a sedentary profession. More than anything else, I think sports reveal character and that’s why some friendships forged on the field during those crunch situations and the respect earned on the ground stay with you for times to come.  As regards the second part, injuries are part of any sportsman’s life and with a variety of sports to choose from, an individual may choose the ones s/he feels comfortable to engage in.

    Tell us about the internships you pursued while at university. How did you choose where to intern? What led you to start practising soon after graduation, considering a lot of your peers would have joined firms?

    I was quite clear from the beginning that I was going to pursue litigation as a career. My internship choices were driven by this. I interned with various lawyers across courts and forums, including a lot of trial court experience. I tried to keep a wide base in the beginning which I later narrowed down to fields of specialisation. I just prefer litigation over corporate firm practice as I feel more comfortable in this role, which might be due to the different skill sets involved in the two.

     

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    How does one decide which Court to start practising in after graduating if one wishes to litigate. How necessary is it to have a mentor/guide at the start of your practise?

    Frankly, I don’t think there is any right way of going about it. From the interaction I have had with my peers and seniors and my personal experience, I think a lawyer should just make the most of whatever he has to work with. I personally chose to start practising from the district courts right after graduation, which I continue to do till date, as I wanted to develop an understanding of legal procedures from the ground up. Moreover, given that I wanted to specialise in criminal law I didn’t really have a choice as the exposure to evidence and the various stages and facets of criminal trial can’t be obtained at appellate stage directly. I don’t know how important a mentor is but having someone who believes in you can be very helpful, especially when you come straight out of college. This assumes greater importance in a country like ours where practice and procedure can sometimes be so diverse that you tend to question if you were studying the right courses. I think feeling inadequate and lost in the initial phase is a very common phenomenon, so either find someone who helps you go through it or grow thicker skin!

     

    You have worked extensively on criminal matters while interning and after graduation. What are the various opportunities here and what made you gravitate towards criminal practise?

    After working on a variety of matters during my internships I personally found myself more inclined to work on criminal matters due to some personality traits, including, possibly, a flexible moral fibre. Other contributing factors in this decision were the enabling power of a criminal lawyer, the gravitas and immediate impact a good criminal lawyer has on lives. The cases you deal with are sometimes actually a matter of life and death- how many professions can you say that about?  I also think my internships with Mr. Vikas Pahwa, Sr. Advocate and watching him in action in court had a lasting impact. Furthermore, my work at the chamber of Adv. Yudhishtar Kahol was particularly enriching and fulfilling; observing Kahol sir cross-examine witnesses and interpret evidence was a sublime experience and  cemented my love for criminal litigation. The fact that both these counsels had dealt primarily anti-corruption matters, which generally involve generous volume of paperwork and an equally large number of witnesses to be examined, gave me amazing exposure to the evidentiary aspect of trial in a very short time for which I am indebted to both these offices.

     

    Soon after graduating, you worked as a junior advocate for a year and then decided to join RHA Legal, who are relatively new. Tell us about RHA Legal, the kind of work they generally deal with and what made you join them.

    RHA Legal is a start-up law firm which focusses on Intellectual Property Rights, Corporate advisory, and Litigation & Dispute Resolution practice. I am primarily attached to the Dispute Resolution vertical branch of the firm headed by partner Ajit Sharma, who does a lot of criminal litigation including white collar crimes apart from a diverse civil practice across various forums viz. Supreme Court, High Courts, NGT and Central Administrative Tribunal.  Rajiv Kr. Choudhry heads the IPR team, which inter alai does some highly technical advisory work on patent law and copyright.

    RHA Legal being a small firm, I have had the opportunity to work with both these teams and my experience here has been extremely fulfilling and enriching. The focus is on the creation of an extremely supportive and enabling work culture that has been built by the partners for everyone who works with them including the associates and the interns.  As compared to a larger setup, I believe a smaller firm gives you ample opportunity to be involved in the problem solving process from the very beginning, and that too at multiple levels including client handling, issue spotting and strategizing. Thus, giving you better perspective, far greater responsibilities and a more hands-on experience, which can prove to be vital for any litigating lawyer.

     

    What have you been tasked with in your tenure here? What is an average work day like in your life?

    From the very first day of my joining the Firm, I have enjoyed a very broad base role which included sitting through client meetings, researching on legal issues, flagging legal propositions in the case at hand, lot of drafting opportunities and some face time in the Court as well. The level of faith reposed in me, especially with regard to quality of work entrusted to me, is tremendous and I consider myself fortunate to work in such an enabling setting with some very talented and supportive seniors and colleagues. The work hours are manageable and vary according to the volume of work.

     

    Tell us about the Trial Courts at Delhi and your experience in working there. Why do you think it is an interesting avenue for graduates to pursue? Tell us about your experience with pro bono work.

    Although Trial Court work is very exciting and in fact crucial for a criminal litigator, the biggest obstacle I faced is the massive chasm between the practice and what is taught at Law School.  The one unique opportunity which a litigating lawyer has over all others, is the ability to make a difference at a very early stage. I have had the good fortune of working on some pro bono cases with Vertical Legal, a dispute resolution firm working out of Delhi. The firm has a steady real estate advisory practice, but has a dedicated team taking up pro-bono matters including a Sunday-only Legal Clinic imparting free of cost legal advice to all and sundry. I trust that apart from being a learning opportunity, it is a humbling and a supremely fulfilling experience. I have been involved in this work since my fourth year of law school and I must say I am very proud of what we have been able to accomplish since then. Some of the work we did was also reported recently in the media, including a piece in the reputed Caravan Magazine on a case relating to ill-treatment of migrant labourers in Punjab. This case also made me realise the extremely effective role that the media, and good journalism in general, can play by taking up socially relevant stories and contributing to the solution, which does not always lie in the legal sphere.

     

    What are your goals for the immediate future?

    I don’t have any elaborate goals for the near future. I would love to continue in my current setup and learn as much as I can in the process. Litigation, they say, requires patience and perseverance; I currently feel that I am stocking up on both.

     

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    What would be your parting message to our readers, especially those who wish to litigate?

    They say, “Litigation is not a profession, it is a way of life” and with each passing day I am appreciating the aptness of this statement. Although I feel I am not old or wise enough to give advice, I will pass on something which a very wise man once told me- “Litigation involves industry, and lots of it. Don’t do it for the money, there are exponentially easier ways of making money 🙂”.

  • Tarunabh Khaitan, Associate Professor, Oxford Univ, on pursuing BCL, M.Phil and D.Phil from Oxford, being a visiting scholar at NYU

    Tarunabh Khaitan, Associate Professor, Oxford Univ, on pursuing BCL, M.Phil and D.Phil from Oxford, being a visiting scholar at NYU

    Dr. Tarunabh Khaitan is an alumnus of the 2004 batch of NLSIU, Bangalore and a recipient of the prestigious Rhodes Scholarship. After completing his masters (BCL) from Oxford University, Tarunabh decided to pursue higher studies, he completed his M.Phil and D.Phil from Oxford in 2007 and 2010 respectively. Tarunabh is an Associate Professor at Oxford currently, he teaches Constitutional Law and Jurisprudence to undergraduates, Discrimination Law to graduates, and supervises research in his areas of interest.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying at NLSIU and at Oxford.
    • Building a profile and SOP for pursuing further studies at the best universities.
    • A bit about the
    • His experience working as an Associate Professor at Oxford and as a visiting scholar at New York University.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    I am an academic working on law and legal theory.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family or in close proximity? How did you come to touch with law?

    I don’t have any lawyers in my family. Where I grew up law wasn’t something one aspired to. A more urbane cousin passed on the law school prospectus and I gave it a go—entirely serendipitous. This chanced encounter with the law motivated my discussions with Shamnad Basheer on the need for diversity in law schools. I am very pleased to see his dynamism and energy in taking the IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access) project from strength to strength.

     

    How was your law school experience at NLSIU? Do you recall your first day at the Halls of Residence? Would you like to share any observation/memory from those days?

    I loved my time in law school, largely because of the friends I made, and because that is where my political education happened. My politics and history classes and my internship with Aruna Roy’s Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS) early in my law school career were particularly instructive. These early influences have continued to shape my thinking and career ever since.

    I don’t recall my first day at law school, but I was probably very nervous and convinced they made a mistake in letting me in. Everyone else seemed cleverer. In hindsight, despite many positives, I don’t think law school challenged me enough academically. With some honourable exceptions, most courses required minimal effort, and reading cases or articles was entirely optional. I got a lot out of those five years and wouldn’t change that for anything else, but Indian law school needs to do a lot more to deliver on their primary mission of teaching law to young minds, and to help them think independently about the law.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I was interested in public law and human rights law. My interest in these fields has continued, although I engage with them through a theoretical lens mostly.

     

    How do you think a law student can build up his profile to get through to top-notch universities like Oxford? What should one do differently in college if he wants to pursue higher studies after graduation?

    Most people in law school are very clever. Effort and motivation is the main thing that makes a difference. Most postgrad universities care about academic excellence alone. If you want to join the academy, more important than strategically designing your profile is to have a genuine love for scholarship—if you have that craving, you are likely to do the right things. So it is useful to ask yourself why you want to join the academy, what you think the role and purpose of a university is, and whether and how your personal goals interact with the point of scholarship.

    That said, investing in learning how to write well can help. Indian law schools typically require you to do a lot of writing, but good feedback on improving your style, structure, argument and content is rare. I learnt the importance of clear, simply-communicated scholarship during my time at MKSS rather than at law school. To paraphrase a conversation over a dinner with Aruna Roy some 15 years ago, I remember her telling me that a polity needs good scholarship, but one that is readily intelligible. It was an important lesson.

     

    What was your area of study during your masters at Oxford? What was the academic pressure like and did you find time to engage yourself in other activities?

    I focussed on jurisprudence, human rights, constitutional theory and the penal system for my BCL. My doctoral research was on discrimination law theory, which was eventually published by OUP last year.

     

    How did you take the decision to pursue higher studies? How did you go about choosing the programme and the university?

    Like Edward Said, I believe that the role of an intellectual is to speak truth to power. It is the truth-seeking purpose of scholarship that underscores the importance of academic freedom. As for choosing Oxford, I got a scholarship to go there: that mostly did it.

     

    What was your first reaction on learning that you are being awarded the Rhodes scholarship? Do you recall the first few days and the interview?

    I was very happy, as one would expect. It has been a while (more than a decade), but I think most questions were character-oriented.

     

    How did you go about writing your résumé and most importantly, your Statement of Purpose?

    Not sure what résumé I submitted then, but I have come to realise the importance of short résumé, no more than one and a half sides. Selection panels include busy people, who have little more than a few minutes to make an initial judgment. Be kind to them, give a clean, professional résumé with your most important achievements. For the SOP, get as much feedback as you can on early drafts—from friends, family, professors, anyone whose opinion you care for. Make every sentence mean something. Keep it direct, personal, and honest. Don’t do platitudes.

     

    What would be your advice to our young readers who would like to apply for Rhodes scholarship in future? What all does it take to have a brilliant profile good enough for the Rhodes?

    I don’t think there is a formula. Rhodes scholars are a very diverse bunch, and there are many different ways to succeed. It is also important to remember that while the Rhodes Scholarship is valuable, it is not the only available door. While the role of luck cannot be discounted, if you have worked hard, something worthwhile should turn up. Being at an elite law school is already a position of immense privilege, one that secures opportunities not available to many others.

     

    How was your experience at Oxford? What are the classes and professors like? Are the classes more interactive?

    Oxford undergraduates are taught mainly in tutorials where 2 students meet a tutor for an hour once a week to have a pre-submitted essay dissected in detail. The contact hours are few—an undergraduate student typically gets 12 hours of tutorial in total in an 8 week term. But the intensity of exposure is staggering: there is no place to hide, not for the student, nor for the tutor. Lectures are mostly optional and students choose to go if they like the lecturer. Graduate students are mainly taught in larger seminars of 10-15 students, although they also get a limited number of tutorial exposure. The mainstay of the student experience here is the astonishing amount of self-study expected from students. A typical undergraduate student will normally read about 6-10 cases and 4-8 journal articles every week—graduate students read even more.

     

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    How rigorous was the academic schedule? Would you say a doctorate from Oxford can help make a good grounding for a career in academics?

    Research students don’t have any schedule, it is really important to be self-disciplined and be passionate about your research to keep going. Research can be a lonely and daunting process, and your relationship with your supervisor is the key. I was lucky to have a great supervisor in Nick Bamforth, I also know people who were less fortunate. A good doctorate is increasingly becoming absolutely essential to a career in legal academia. I would recommend prospective research students to make early informal contact with potential supervisors. Doctorates in the UK tend to take a lot less time than they do in the US.

     

    How is your experience of teaching at Oxford? Which subjects do you teach? How are the current batches of students whom you teach?

    I currently teach constitutional law and jurisprudence to undergraduates, discrimination law to graduates, and supervise research in my area of interest. I find that teaching feeds into my research in interesting ways, and with the best students, I frequently learn as I teach.

     

    Do tell us more about the Global Research Fellowship Scheme, 2016 and your experience at NYU.

    I am on sabbatical for the rest of this calendar year. I am currently visiting the law school at the University of Melbourne, and plan to spend a few months later in the year at New York University. It is just a time to get out of Oxford, learn a bit about how things are done at other universities, and get some research time without the pressures of teaching.

     

     

  • Aditya Shamlal, Partner, GameChanger Law Advisors, on career experience in Sports Law

    Aditya Shamlal, Partner, GameChanger Law Advisors, on career experience in Sports Law

    Aditya Shamlal graduated from the National Law School India University in 2008. He has worked as an Associate at Amarchand Mangaldas and thereafter at the Chambers of Raj Panwani. He is at present a Senior Consultant at GameChanger Sports Ventures, a Partner at GameChanger Law Advisors and Managing Editor at gamechangerindia.com. In this interview he shares his insights on:

    • Choosing law as a profession
    • His time at NLSIU
    • Working at GameChanger, India
    • Experience in Sports Law

     

    How would you like introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law aspirants, law students and young lawyers?

    I am a graduate of NLSIU, Bangalore, Batch of 2008. I have, during my 7 plus years since graduation, gained experience and worked in various practice areas within the legal industry, such as corporate and commercial law, environmental law, technology law, sports law and dispute resolution. I am an avid sports enthusiast and do regular research and writing within the sports law domain.

     

    Did you always want to be a lawyer? Did you have lawyers in your family or among relatives who motivated you to pursue law?

    As a child or even till I was 14-15 I never really thought much about a career and I don’t think I was particularly ambitious either. I was quite content with playing sports with my friends, playing video games and studying when required to. The first profession I seriously thought of was law.

    However, I did not have any lawyers in my family or even among distant relatives. No one in my family really knew what being a lawyer meant. I first discussed this with my family in 2001-2002 and their only idea of a lawyer (and consequently mine) was an advocate who practiced in the courts.

     

    What inclined you towards the field of legal education? Can you recall any specific incident that made you choose law as a career?

    My favourite subjects in school were English and Social Studies. Our civics course had chapters on the Constitution of India and that first got me interested in the ‘law’. By the time I was 14-15 years old, I had displayed a higher aptitude for English, History, Political Science and Economics over Math and Science. My school at that point of time did not offer arts courses as an option for the 12th Board examination. I was left only with the options of commerce or science and chose science to ‘keep my options open’.

    Sometime in 2002, my English teacher, who herself was an LLB graduate from Delhi University, suggested I consider law as a possible career option, as she felt I had an aptitude for it. This got me thinking about law seriously, and after doing a bit of research on the options available and the exams to be written, I decided to go ahead and write the legal entrance exams.

     

    How would you describe your experience as a student at NLSIU? How instrumental was NLSIU in shaping up your legal career?

    NLSIU was a great place to study law. While NLSIU, like every other institution in India, has its own problems and issues, those 5 years completely changed the direction of my life.

    I believe NLSIU has been extremely instrumental in shaping the legal career of almost all its graduates and the NLSIU alumni community is now understanding that, and consequently are more invested in the institution than before. NLSIU has churned out leaders in advocacy, law firms, companies, public policy institutions, academia, social work and quite recently in entrepreneurship as well. This would not have been possible without the institution providing a conducive atmosphere for learning. In addition, the institution has also provided us with other building blocks (such as exposure to so many different situations, the ability to build powerful networks, development of communication skills etc.) that have stood us in good stead way after our graduation. Therefore, there is much reason to be grateful to NLSIU!

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Economics, Company Law, Intellectual Property Law, International Law were the courses I enjoyed the most during college, I would be lying if I said I went around developing any sort of expertise in these areas during my college days, apart from during internships, which necessitated doing reasonably in-depth research with respect to real world circumstances and scenarios.

    Most of my extra-curricular activities were centred around sports whether it organisationally or in the form of participation. I played basketball briefly for the university team, and otherwise participated yearly in inter-batch sports activities like basketball, football, tennis and table tennis. I was also on the sports committee for a year.

     

    Tell us about the internships you pursued when at law school. What kind of work did you get to do during internships? Did law school equip you enough for internships?

    I did mostly litigation internships with NLSIU Alums in the Supreme Court and Delhi High Court for my first 3 years in law school. In my 4th and 5th years I did more corporate internships by interning at law firms and at banks. The education at law school, whether relevant or not specifically with respect to subject matter, in general armed me with the tools I needed to tackle any legal problem thrown at me during my internships.

     

    Right after graduation you joined as an Associate in the New Delhi offices of Amarchand Mangaldas. Tell our readers what was your work profile at this Law firm? What did an average day of work look like?

    I joined the erstwhile AMSS, Delhi in 2008 and worked there for a period of 2 years. As a fresh graduate in a large law firm it is sometimes tough to hit the ground running. Often you were put in a practice area you did not understand and it can be quite a challenge coming to grips with the major legal issues and nuances of a particular practice area.

    As a junior resource you work profile includes doing all of the ground work in the form of research; preparing first drafts of opinions, legal memos and agreements; conducting due diligence exercises; maintaining files, taking minutes at meetings, assisting your immediate reporting senior associate or your partner in whatever way possible. An average day in Amarchand is quite hectic, you are almost always occupied with most of the tasks I have already mentioned.

     

    Please tell our readers what was the procedure you followed for your applications to the big law firms?

    We had a robust recruitment committee during my years in law school, and the big law firms, both Indian and from the UK, were recruiting actively from NLSIU. We routed our job applications through our recruitment committee and some students had already landed jobs through pre-placement offers on the basis of internships.

     

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    You have further worked in litigation for about 2 years. Kindly in brief share these experiences with our readers.

    After walking into NLSIU in 2003, joining a litigation practice in 2010, was my biggest eye opener. During my time at AMSS, I had the opportunity to work on all kinds of projects, but due to the way large corporate firms are structured, my client or ‘real world’ exposure was fairly limited and junior resources in large firms are generally sheltered and insulated from the big bad world.

    Juniors in Litigation, especially outside of the larger firms, have no such protection afforded to them. You are quite literally thrown into the deep end, whether it is drafting, or filing a suit or petition, sitting in client meetings and gleaning facts from your clients, sitting with senior lawyers and briefing them. In litigation, every one of your skills is tested thoroughly. Whether it is the hard legal skills of drafting or research or soft skills in managing client expectations and dealing with the registry, all your work and life experience will come into play when working in litigation and therefore, to me at least, it was one of the more challenging experiences of my life.

     

    Take our readers through this wonderful transition and journey you have experienced and kindly share your legal insights in sports issues.

    (Thereafter Aditya joined GameChanger Law Advisors as a Senior Consultant and as the Managing Editor of gamechangerindia.com and finally became Partner of GameChanger Law Advisors.)

    GameChanger Law Advisors (a legal advisory practice) and GameChanger Sports Ventures (a consultancy and online web magazine on the business of sport) was founded by Amrut Joshi (NLSIU, Batch of 2003) in the year 2011. I was always interested in sports law and sports businesses and most of my friends knew of that interest. I was put in touch with Amrut through a common friend and I wound up joining both the law firm and the consultancy in 2012. Initially, it was just the two of us in the law practice.

    GameChanger Sports Ventures was conceptualized as a sports business consulting firm to provide niche consulting services to the sports industry (such as sponsorship consulting, social media marketing, and other advisory services). While Amrut and I were responsible for shaping the content platform i.e. gamechangerindia.com, Prantik Mazumdar (who is a reputed digital marketing consultant in Singapore) was leading the execution of all consulting assignments.

    The idea was to bootstrap the sports consulting venture with revenues earned from a pure play law practice (i.e. from GameChanger Law Advisors) and from a social media consulting practice (in Prantik’s case). We straddled our corporate and commercial law practice with GameChanger Sports Ventures’ work for the first few years. However, due to Amrut’s and my legal experience, the law practice continued to get stronger (as a result of a strong startup ecosystem in both Bangalore and New Delhi), and we eventually pivoted to a model where we were exclusively focusing on pure-play legal services, which included assisting clients on Angel/VC investment transactions, technology licensing transactions, commercial contracting, sports law and employment law advisory All the while, we have continued to retain our focus on servicing clients in the startup and sports industries.

     

    Please tell our readers about GameChanger Law Advisors, its area of operations, services offered. What was the thought process behind joining GameChanger Law Advisors?

    GameChanger Law Advisors, is a boutique commercial law practice that is focused on servicing clients in the Startup, Sports and SME ecosystem. We currently have full-fledged offices in Bangalore and New Delhi. Our core areas of practice are:

    • Corporate and Commercial Law Advisory;
    • Employment Law Advisory;
    • Angel and Venture Capital Investments;
    • Mergers and Acquisitions;
    • A specialised practice supporting the Technology and Media industries; and
    • A specialised practice supporting the Sports Industry.

    The thought process behind joining GameChanger Law Advisors was that I wanted to work in industry areas in which I am interested. In addition, I had a unique opportunity to build a law practice that is modern, contextual and meritocratic in its outlook. The decision was borne out of that interest, it was an instinctive decision taken after weighing all the pros and cons of leaving an established practice area and attempting to develop and carve out a niche for ourselves.

    Company Law applies equally to any company irrespective of the industry it does business in. Our value addition as corporate and commercial legal counsel stems from the fact that we strive to obtain a deep understanding of our clients’ businesses and their commercial considerations and pinpoints, while rendering our services. The fact that Amrut and I were able to obtain a substantial amount of first-hand non-legal business experience also helps us when we share our experiences with Founders of startups now. As much as it is a cliché, we believe that we will only be successful and relevant to our clients if we provide advice that is practical and not merely by reading to them the plain letter of the law. .

     

    How did your interest grow towards sports law as this an area less travelled by corporate lawyers?

    I used to watch and play quite a few sports growing up. Watching and reading about sports like Football and Basketball got me thinking about how sports are a reasonably structured business in the West. Sports as a business in India was only unlocked in the early 90’s with lucrative TV deals for cricket broadcast and sky high endorsements for Sachin Tendulkar. Even as recently as the early part of the last decade, sports business in India was equated with just cricket. Since then however, the business of sport in India has evolved gradually. The last few years has seen the advent of leagues in sports such as Football, Kabaddi, Hockey, Badminton and Tennis. These leagues are now spawning a professional ecosystem, which comprises not just the players but also other stakeholders such as sponsors, franchise owners, broadcasters, infrastructure providers, coaches, medical staff, player agents etc.

    The growth of this ecosystem has also gradually increased the demand for specialised legal services to support different stakeholders in the sports industry. Sports Law, in our view, is “applied law”, and is a discipline that requires a good working knowledge of several other bodies of law such as contract law, constitutional law, administrative law, intellectual property law and company law. You cannot be a good sports lawyer unless you are a good lawyer!

     

    How is the work life at GameChanger Law Advisors and how do you maintain the work and family life balance?

    We strive hard to maintain a work-life balance at GameChanger. However being a young firm, with a growing client base, work-life balance is sometimes a luxury that we cannot afford. Those situations notwithstanding, we try to make sure that we don’t unnecessarily keep long hours. We try and make sure that the entire team gets a complete break on Saturdays and Sundays so that we are fresh and ready to deal with new challenges at the beginning of every week! Being a small team, we are also flexible with leave and holiday requests- the team tries its best to cover up for any person who is on leave/vacation, so that the vacation/leave can be used for its actually intended purpose! Having said that, if there are unavoidable situations at work, which require us to be available for clients at late hours or on weekends, our team members are game to accept such challenges too!

     

    You have various publications on sports law to your credit. Kindly share your experience with young readers and how your interest was drawn to this field.

    Publications are something which I didn’t really take to seriously in Law School. I didn’t attach to much importance to it at that point of time as I viewed it as an exercise which requires too much effort for no tangible result. Only once I started working did I realise the value in writing. Legal writing truly hones your theoretical skill and grasp over the subject at hand. In addition, it helps you to express your views, strive towards paying attention to detail and reach a target audience that is relevant to your practice. As a firm, GameChanger Law Advisors puts a lot of emphasis on legal writing, not just in the field of sports law, but also other areas of law such as corporate law, administrative law, employment law and contract law.

    If I have any advice for a young law student, it would be to use the opportunities during college life to get published as much as possible. If a subject interests you, write about various topics that are current and relevant to the legal debates of the day. It is an extremely handy skill-set to have and something which in my view will never go to waste.

     

    Do you have any plans to pursue higher education in the future specially in sports laws?

    No current plans to pursue higher education, in sports law or otherwise, though I would love to do a sports law related LL.M so I would not rule that out for the future if the opportunity ever presents itself.